simple Hi-Tek coating

[Ausglock]

I think he stated that he has a bullet on the end of the Thermo-couple.

[HI-TEK]

I think he stated that he has a bullet on the end of the Thermo-couple.

I understand that.
It does not explain why his solvent wipe test fails.
As you know, coating will not cure, and can be removed with solvent, or the next coat, because it is under baked.
Even if he has a projectile on end of his temperature probe, this will not guarantee that the bulk load is at same temperature.
PID oven temperature control is a great start.
For a particular load, user must determine how long it will take that load to get to 180C. That is what I have tried to explain, may be inadequately.

[Tazza]

I'd start by doing smaller batches, same temperature and time, just fewer on the tray and see if they pass the wipe test. If they pass, you are just not getting the load to 180c+ for the required minimum of 2 minutes.

My oven does quite well, 12 minuets and i have 2 trays cooked and all pass wipe and smash tests.

I have had issues in the past when trying to cook too many at once, i'd apply the the second coat and you could see some were too light in colour, the second coat was washing the first non cured coat off.

[HI-TEK]

So just to be clear I am sure that the coated cast bullets are reaching temperature, the oven is controlled by a PID and the thermal couple has a bullet screwed on the end of it. Once the oven has returned to temperature I start the clock.

As for the Red Copper mixing, I will check to make sure that what am doing insures a good mix.


MOZZ
Just wanted to ask, how did you know that the load you placed into the oven reached correct temperature for correct cure?
If you are relying on probe with cast on the end as being the indicator, you may be misled by simple facts.
If you have a plain Lead non coated cast , on tip of temperature probe, it will heat up very quickly and get to oven set temperature..
However, if you have a Coated Cast at end of your temperature probe, at exactly at same time, a coated cast on the end of probe will be 20-25C lower, as heat cant get through coating as fast.
If you have the uncoated cast probe, sitting on top of your load in your oven, the probe will show temperatures more closely to oven/PID settings.
If you have a coated cast on the end of your probe, at same time exposure as non coated cast, the coated cast will be much cooler and provide lower temperature indications.
However, both the non coated cast, and the coated cast located on probe, will not correctly advise of the actual load temperature, which will be much cooler, and the reading you are getting from probes will not provide you actual load temperatures.
There is two reasons for this
1. Load has much higher mass weight to absorb heat and takes longer to heat up, as air cannot circulate as well around the load.
2. The coating significantly reduces heat transfer to the bulk load.
In summary, the probe will provide a temperature, but cannot supply you the actual load actual temperature.
You seem to be assuming, that what the probe is indicating, also reflects load temperature.
That is simply not the case. That is why you are getting solvent wipe off.

As Tazza indicated, with his reply, bake smaller batches where air inside your oven can circulate evenly around the load.
You really need an infra Red thermometer to diagnose product temperatures.
The PID control stops oven over heating, or have huge temperature swings, but for a particular load, you need to determine your ovens ability. how long it takes to get a specific load up to correct cure temperatures.

[Mozz]

Ah, that's clearer thank you. I was using a plain non coated bullet. I will get a infrared thermometer as advised.

Once again thank you for your help and support guys.

Mozz

[slide]

For those that are interested Jerry Miculek has posted a video about hi-tek. Don't know how to post a link. You will have to look it up.
It is on youtube. The title is Bullets,bullets, and more bullets!! Let's reload!

[RedlegEd]

For those that are interested Jerry Miculek has posted a video about hi-tek. Don't know how to post a link. You will have to look it up.
It is on youtube. The title is Bullets,bullets, and more bullets!! Let's reload!

Hi Slide,
Here you go!
Ed


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uxIraZnPFQ

[Mozz]

redleg.

Are you pre-warming your bullets? Have a look at my drying stand picture. You can see the fan heater that is used to pre-warm the trays next to go into the oven.
My oven has 2 huge wattage elements, so 7:30 is no problem.
The smaller convection benchtop ovens need around 10 to 12 minutes at 195Deg C.

Trevor are you pre-heating your bullets to ensure they are dried fully?

[kevin c]

Always fun to see Jerry shoot and hear what he has to say. More skill there than I'll ever have with any kind of firearm, with broader, deeper shooting knowledge and experience as well.

That said, I'd never put unprocessed scrap in my casting pot, and I wish he'd given more credit where it's due for HiTek.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Always fun to see Jerry shoot and hear what he has to say. More skill there than I'll ever have with any kind of firearm, with broader, deeper shooting knowledge and experience as well.

That said, I'd never put unprocessed scrap in my casting pot, and I wish he'd given more credit where it's due for HiTek.


I agree with him on getting deeper into reloading and casting to learn more about guns. I’ve always said that.

I think he gives hi-tek credit. Maybe not enough but I bet he doesn’t want to sound like an infomercial especially since his brother Donnie has been using it for decades (bayou bullets ex owner) and selling it (hi performance bullet coatings) that being said I think he is more in tune with the coating than most of us hobby users. As he is with most anything firearms. The man is a legend for sure. I wish I had 1/100th of his skill.

[Avenger442]

Casting and handloading have let me shoot much more than I would have with store bought. All that shooting took me to a greater understanding of both firearms and my abilities with them. Hi Tek is a part of that six years of learning.

I somewhat disagree with Jerry in that he seemed to say jacketed was more accurate than cast. Or maybe I just misunderstood him. Cast just relies on the caster for it's accuracy and not a company. Like anything else knowledge, practice, consistency, and patience will help make the casting you do more accurate. Mine are certainly more accurate than they were when I started. But I do not claim that they are as accurate as they can be.

[Ausglock]

Trevor are you pre-heating your bullets to ensure they are dried fully?


Yep. sure do... even in summer..

[Mozz]

Yep. sure do... even in summer..

What temp and for how long?

[Ausglock]

What temp and for how long?

for as long as the previous tray of bullets needs to bake. and temp is warm to the touch.
rest the palm of you hand on the bullets, they should be warm.

[Stephen Cohen]

Michael J and Avenger442, I agree with you both that Jerry is a shooter to aspire to. I think anyone watching this could be forgiven for thinking his brother manufactured the product, I also disagree with the assumption that jacketed are more accurate than Hi-Tek. Anyone who has shot at night under lights will agree that Hi-Tek cuts down the smoke and allows one to see the target and sights better. But I am biased towards Hi-Tek. Regards Stephen

[ioon44]

What temp and for how long?

In the summer I place my coated bullet trays on my dark red deck and in full sunshine and after about 15 min the bullets have reached 130 deg F to 150 deg F which is almost to hot to touch. I have never had any coating fail using this drying temperature no matter what the heat source I use.

[HI-TEK]

In the summer I place my coated bullet trays on my dark red deck and in full sunshine and after about 15 min the bullets have reached 130 deg F to 150 deg F which is almost to hot to touch. I have never had any coating fail using this drying temperature no matter what the heat source I use.

That is a great way to save power.
At 140F you certainly would have coating dry.
It would not take long to get it up to cure temperatures in oven.
Many casters have arranged a drying rack system with warm air blowing through several trays.
The get each tray to about 120F to 130F and bake afterwards.
This is reproduced winter and summer.
No failures or adhesion problems.

[kevin c]

Ioon44, how long is your bake and at what temp? I'd guess that the same time at lower temp or a shorter time at the same temp if you're prewarming to a higher temp than most.

[ioon44]

I have a drying cabinet to blow hot air through several trays with a 1500 watt fan heater that I use in winter and rainy days, I can reach 120 F to 130 F depending on the ambient temperature if it is over 50 F, to work colder than that I set them on the wood stove until they get too hot to touch (140 F).

A lot of ways to dry the coating depending on the resources each person has.

[ioon44]

Ioon44, how long is your bake and at what temp? I'd guess that the same time at lower temp or a shorter time at the same temp if you're prewarming to a higher temp than most.


I use a built in kitchen convection oven and my oven load is 3 trays with a total of 15 lb to 16 lb bullets and I bake for 13 min at 200 C to 208 C because the old thermostat has a big temperature swing, so I don't pay any attention to how warm the bullets are before placing them in the oven.

Am I over baking? Yes, but I think that is better than under baking. My colors are close to what they should be and my barrels are clean after a 300 round match.

[Mozz]

for as long as the previous tray of bullets needs to bake. and temp is warm to the touch.
rest the palm of you hand on the bullets, they should be warm.

Thanks Trevor

[Avenger442]

Joe
I know you have probably answered this before. But how long would you expect the unmixed power to last sitting on the shelf? Under what conditions? My basement is humidity controlled and usually temp is not over 75F or under 40F. And how long would the coating maintain it"s heat shielding ability even if the color wasn't quite right?

Expecting an educated guess since the powder coating has not been around 25 years.

[HI-TEK]

Joe
I know you have probably answered this before. But how long would you expect the unmixed power to last sitting on the shelf? Under what conditions? My basement is humidity controlled and usually temp is not over 75F or under 40F. And how long would the coating maintain it"s heat shielding ability even if the color wasn't quite right?

Expecting an educated guess since the powder coating has not been around 25 years.

Hi Avenger
Good questions.
I am wondering, what prompted the questions?
If kept sealed in a container, out of sunlight, at ambient conditions, the product should last 12 months or more, may be years.
Ausglock, has powder test samples since these were invented, that have sat around for years in jars, and all seem to work.
Essentially, all components are in the product, but because they are not solubilized, they have minimum interaction between components.
What can happen is, that coating powder can pick up moisture, (hygroscopic in nature), and become like soft honeycomb consistency. It should continue to work OK.
Drying the coating afterwards, more care should be exercised in ensuring adequate drying before baking that way it gets rid of any absorbed moisture that was picked up during storage.
Once heat cured and set, the coating is very inert, and should not change with physical properties. The heat cross links all components which are locked in place, so there should be no further changes to the cured coating with storage.
I expect that temperature heat transfer and heat shielding would remain same with aging of the cured coatings.
The coating technology for the powders is similar as for the liquids. The liquids already have all components in an intimate contact, so stability may be not as long as the powdered versions.
Having said that, we have had customers who had solvent based systems, work after years of storage. Some colors appear more stable than others in liquid coating versions.
I hope I answered your questions adequately.

[ioon44]

I keep my unmixed powder in ammo can's in my unheated or AC shop, these are pretty much air tight to stop humidity.

[Avenger442]

Joe
As to what prompted the question. I am not having a specific problem. I was just wondering if the powder sat around for say ten years would the heat shielding ability still be there.

I have the liquid 1035 Gold that was the first coating I bought probably late 2014. I mixed it and used it successfully in 2019. The color was darker but performance was still there as far as keeping lead out of the barrel. I had cast some bullets and was going to use it again and it came to mind that maybe I could get some input on shelf life. I have several powders in different colors that I do not use frequently which have sat around for a shorter length of time because I love that 1035 gold. As you can see I don't cast and coat as many as some here do. Probably no more than a couple thousand per year of all calibers I cast.

It seems based on what you said what I need to do is cast up a lot of bullets and apply the coating then the shelf life is not a factor. Use up all of the coating. For me that is a lot of bullets. Probably have enough lead ingots but the time is a factor.

I recently joined the 9mm crowd so I will be casting and coating for it. Anyone who wants to throw some advice my way please do. I've resisted buying a 9mm for years since I like the big bullets. But finally broke down a bought one.

[Ausglock]

I had a clean out yesterday.
melted down a heap of commercial bullets I got about 13 years ago from a now closed maker.
He used Old Gold Liquid coating back then.
I grabbed a few and wiped and smashed them.... Still good after all these years.

[ioon44]

Joe
As to what prompted the question. I am not having a specific problem. I was just wondering if the powder sat around for say ten years would the heat shielding ability still be there.

I have the liquid 1035 Gold that was the first coating I bought probably late 2014. I mixed it and used it successfully in 2019. The color was darker but performance was still there as far as keeping lead out of the barrel. I had cast some bullets and was going to use it again and it came to mind that maybe I could get some input on shelf life. I have several powders in different colors that I do not use frequently which have sat around for a shorter length of time because I love that 1035 gold. As you can see I don't cast and coat as many as some here do. Probably no more than a couple thousand per year of all calibers I cast.

It seems based on what you said what I need to do is cast up a lot of bullets and apply the coating then the shelf life is not a factor. Use up all of the coating. For me that is a lot of bullets. Probably have enough lead ingots but the time is a factor.

I recently joined the 9mm crowd so I will be casting and coating for it. Anyone who wants to throw some advice my way please do. I've resisted buying a 9mm for years since I like the big bullets. But finally broke down a bought one.

I have loaded 9 mm for a lot of years, some things I recommend is making sure the loading dies are not swagging the bullet too much after loading, even different brands of brass can have a large effect on bullet swagging.

I size my 9 mm bullets .002" to .003" over my barrel and I use two coats of Hi-Tek, I use mostly 6-2-92 alloy but I have been testing some with COWW alloy in heaver bulets 140 gr and 160 gr. I use my barrel and not a case gauge to make sure the rounds will feed with out any jams.

Different guns will have different throats which effect the performance of the cast bullet.

[Ausglock]

I agree... The barrel is the ultimate round check gauge.

[kevin c]

Say Petander (or Joe, or Trevor),

Way back (like 8 months ago) y'all were discussing the use of denatured alcohol (ethanol plus various nasties to prevent imbibing). I'm assuming that was the 190 proof?

[Burnt Fingers]

Say Petander (or Joe, or Trevor),

Way back (like 8 months ago) y'all were discussing the use of denatured alcohol (ethanol plus various nasties to prevent imbibing). I'm assuming that was the 190 proof?

Denatured Alcohol doesn't come in proof. It just is. At least here in the States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol

[Ausglock]

Metho is Metho......unless you add orange juice then it is Hangover...lol

[kevin c]

Sorry if I didn't use the right terminology. I got thrown by this and other ads when I googled denatured alcohol.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Denatured-Alcohol-Ethanol-190-proof-1-gallon-128-oz/964845104?&adid=22222222254369285322&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=b&wl1=g&wl2=t&wl3=430328908020&wl4=dsa-896755094330&wl5=9032063&wl6=116131791185&wl7=&wl8=&veh=sem

I just want to be sure I use the right stuff. When talking here about denatured alcohol, or metho as Trevor puts it, are we referring to:

Ethanol as the main thing, not isopropyl or methanol alcohol (though I know the latter can be used to make the ethanol undrinkable and undistillable)?

95% by volume ethanol, with roughly 5% water, versus the 70% commonly bought as rubbing alcohol or hand sanitizer, the ridiculously expensive lab reagent grade 99.X%, or the fuel, like Klean Strip brand in the US, which is only up to half ethanol and that or more of methanol.

I ask because I have the stuff in the ad, which has a bit of water in it. I'd like to use it but worry that the water may cause problems.

[HI-TEK]

Sorry if I didn't use the right terminology. I got thrown by this and other ads when I googled denatured alcohol.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Denatured-Alcohol-Ethanol-190-proof-1-gallon-128-oz/964845104?&adid=22222222254369285322&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=b&wl1=g&wl2=t&wl3=430328908020&wl4=dsa-896755094330&wl5=9032063&wl6=116131791185&wl7=&wl8=&veh=sem

I just want to be sure I use the right stuff. When talking here about denatured alcohol, or metho as Trevor puts it, are we referring to:

Ethanol as the main thing, not isopropyl or methanol alcohol (though I know the latter can be used to make the ethanol undrinkable and undistillable)?

95% by volume ethanol, with roughly 5% water, versus the 70% commonly bought as rubbing alcohol or hand sanitizer, and not the ridiculously expensive lab reagent grade 99.X%?

kevin C
The denatured alcohol (known also as Methylated Spirits) can be used, but at low rates. It can be added to Acetone at about 10% by volume. This slows down evaporation rate of Acetone whilst shake coating. The little amount of Water contributed by the Alcohol is OK, and simply, care should be taken to thoroughly dry coating before baking.
Rubbing alcohol is no good, Methanol is no good. The 99%+ Alcohol is expensive, not practical and not needed.
The use of Methanol in Alcohol is now rarely used, as many had been poisoned and or died from the Methanol denaturant. Now, bittering agents and Iso Propanol (amongst others) are used to denature commercially available Alcohols.

[kevin c]

Thank you, Joe. I'll buy the stuff in the hardware store rather than use the 95% stuff on hand.

[HI-TEK]

Thank you, Joe. I'll buy the stuff in the hardware store rather than use the 95% stuff on hand.

Kevin C
You can use the 95% stuff you already have. The new shop stock, in the hardware store, would be also 95%, or close enough.

[kevin c]

So the balance isn't water? I was concerned about drying or adherence problems with the bake.

[HI-TEK]

So the balance isn't water? I was concerned about drying or adherence problems with the bake.

Kevin C
commercial Methylated spirits (95%) has about 5% water as balance.
It is costly to dehydrate 5% of Water to produce 100% alcohol.
100% alcohol, aside from being costly, does not like being dehydrated and will absorb water quickly. That is why it is not practical to use such product.
Adhesion problems mainly arise from first coating not being adequately dried.
Both Acetone and Alcohol absorb moisture. Acetone possibly absorbs water faster, and that is why containers must be sealed well after decanting/use.
If moisture is included from solvents, (and is kept to a minimum) drying first coat well before baking should be OK.

[kevin c]

Thanks, Joe. I think I have a better understanding, now. Much appreciated.

[Tazza]

If you're wanting to use metho to slow down evaporation, can you not just add a few ML of acetone to each batch?

I was having issues with filling out lube grooves, i add 6ml of coating and depending on the day, 1 or 2 ml of acetone. The acetone evaporates as to be expected, it allows the hi-tek to cover everything before the excess acetone evaporates leaving the correct amount to coat.

It works for me.

[Burnt Fingers]

Sorry if I didn't use the right terminology. I got thrown by this and other ads when I googled denatured alcohol.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Denatured-Alcohol-Ethanol-190-proof-1-gallon-128-oz/964845104?&adid=22222222254369285322&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=b&wl1=g&wl2=t&wl3=430328908020&wl4=dsa-896755094330&wl5=9032063&wl6=116131791185&wl7=&wl8=&veh=sem

I just want to be sure I use the right stuff. When talking here about denatured alcohol, or metho as Trevor puts it, are we referring to:

Ethanol as the main thing, not isopropyl or methanol alcohol (though I know the latter can be used to make the ethanol undrinkable and undistillable)?

95% by volume ethanol, with roughly 5% water, versus the 70% commonly bought as rubbing alcohol or hand sanitizer, the ridiculously expensive lab reagent grade 99.X%, or the fuel, like Klean Strip brand in the US, which is only up to half ethanol and that or more of methanol.

I ask because I have the stuff in the ad, which has a bit of water in it. I'd like to use it but worry that the water may cause problems.

That's a crazy stupid price.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-Gal-SLX-Denatured-Alcohol-Cleaner-GSL26/100139444

There ya go.

[Avenger442]

My cousins used to make their own alcohol. Of course it was not quite legal. The Fed had a problem with it. They sold it in gallon jugs.
I wonder what alcohol grain alcohol is and could it have a use in coating. (Joe you would have loved these guys)

[kevin c]

Thanks, all. I think I've muddled my way through my misunderstandings of terminology and local differences.

Just like "proof" may not be the correct word but is used by many to describe the ethanol content of denatured alcohol, I'm learning that what is called denatured alcohol in one country may not be the same as what is called that in another.

That Wikipedia article Burnt Fingers linked to shows that the alcohol that is the one being "denatured" is ethanol, and that the original denaturing agent was another alcohol, methanol, hence the descriptors "methylated spirit" and "metho". That same article also notes that in most places methanol content is historically no more than 10%, is 0% in NZ and per Joe the same in Australia, but that in the US the methanol content can be very much higher. For example, the SDS on that US brand Klean-Strip denatured alcohol fuel that Burnt Fingers linked to shows a methanol content of up to 60%.

Per Ausglock's tests, the denatured alcohol he used, presumably w/o methanol (exact ethanol content not clear to me) wouldn't work as the carrier/solvent for HiTek above 20% in acetone. His denatured alcohol at 100% didn't work either.

Maybe the low ethanol/high methanol Klean-Strip stuff would work, but since Joe says my 95% denatured ethanol will do at the right concentration and since he makes his living doing practical chemistry, I'll go with that.

Fortunately I didn't pay the current price for the 95%. I have it for a variety of cleaning and sanitizing purposes, and got it before the COVID 19 thing drove up the price. It may cost hecka more than methanol or isopropanol, but is much easier odor wise, and is a lot less expensive than the same proof Everclear.

I'm mainly going to use it as a pre coat wetting agent, ala Petander. I hopes he chimes in; I'm curious if he can find a SDS for the denatured alcohol he uses.

Gee, all this just so I won't have spots in the lube grooves... ;^D

[Tazza]

Give a little extra shot of acetone a go, it has no water in it, so no risk of issues with holding moisture.

I only do it to have pretty lube grooves, it doesn't touch the bore, but it's an appearance thing, so i'm with you 100% on wanting to get them filled. No lube groove projectiles are great for not needing the extra effort, i did a batch of them yesterday, they coated oh so easily without extra acetone.

As already stated by Joe, if wetting with alcohol, ensure they are dry dry before baking.

[HI-TEK]

Gee, all this just so I won't have spots in the lube grooves... ;^D

Kevin C
Simplest suggestion I have is, that you simply make up coating mixture using more Acetone.
For example, if standard mix you use is 20g to 100mls Acetone, and use 6 mls per 250 cast, then simply add 20 grams to say 150Mls Acetone and use about
9 mls of mixture to 250 cast.
Having more liquid during shake coating should wet out all areas, and, you are not using more coating.
I was not aware that in US, denatured Alcohol (Metho) can be sold in so many denaturants and with so many percentage variations of ingredients.
In Australia, Metho is 95% Ethanol denatured with Iso-Propanol and or bittering agents, and balance is Water.
I am fairly sure (not 100%), that using Methyl Alcohol here is not allowed as a denaturant.

Avenger
Distilling home made Alcohol can vary from 20% (40 proof) to 65% (130 Proof) or more, Ethanol content. The percentage of Alcohol content will be dependent on fractionating efficiency of the still being used and experience of the distiller.
When distilling fermented products, the strongest fraction coming off the distillation occurs at the beginning. As distillation continues, the alcohol content continues to reduce until you get mainly water. Depending on how long distillation is done will govern just how strong is final product with Alcohol content.
The old timers that used to make their own, knew by experience, at what point to stop distillation so they had maximum Alcohol content.

In commercial distillation processes, they use fractionating column, (or sieve tray type plate type column) that act to concentrate Alcohol and return Water back.
That way the alcohol content is very much higher as Alcohol/Water vapors, the water is separated more with fractionating and refluxing, which concentrates Alcohol content.
The percentage of Alcohol content can be done by using an Alcohol Hydrometer that is calibrated to show Alcohol content.
https://www.labdirect.com.au/alcoholometer-0-100-x-2-0-vol-2-0-260mm-long-20-c/
Alcoholometers are used to read the alcohol content of pure distilled spirits only.
Glass hydrometer made in Australia by Carlton.
These Hydrometers are calibrated on Ethanol content. If there are other Alcohols present such as Methanol, or Iso Propanol,
they are no good as they don't identify actual Ethanol content and will provide misleading results..

[kevin c]

I sort of tried that, by using a bit more than the standard amount of a first coat at half the HiTek concentration (20 grams in 200 ml acetone). It helped, but wasn't quite perfect, maybe because I didn't use enough. I did a second coat at standard strength and amount.

Like Petander, I'm trying to avoid having too many bottles of different concentrations lying around. He used a pre wet of straight (European) denatured alcohol, followed by a standard strength HiTek in acetone application, using the normal amount. I was guessing that he used the denatured stuff because it evaporates more slowly. Enough straight acetone added first should wet the grooves as well, so maybe I'll try both ways. Thanks for the suggestion, Tazza! Thanks, Joe!

[ioon44]

Now that the hot weather is here I am mixing 20 grams powder to 10 ml Denatured Alcohol and 90 ml Acetone this slows down the drying enough to get a smooth coat, but as always make sure the first is completely dry.

[HI-TEK]

I sort of tried that, by using a bit more than the standard amount of a first coat at half the HiTek concentration (20 grams in 200 ml acetone). It helped, but wasn't quite perfect, maybe because I didn't use enough. I did a second coat at standard strength and amount.

Like Petander, I'm trying to avoid having too many bottles of different concentrations lying around. He used a pre wet of straight (European) denatured alcohol, followed by a standard strength HiTek in acetone application, using the normal amount. I was guessing that he used the denatured stuff because it evaporates more slowly. Enough straight acetone added first should wet the grooves as well, so maybe I'll try both ways. Thanks for the suggestion, Tazza! Thanks, Joe!


kevin C
with dilution of 20 per 200mls Acetone, you could have used twice the normal amount to coat. That volume should have been more than adequate to coat all areas and more evenly. It would have provided more shake coating time also.
With Acetone (and MEK) during the solvent drying off, causes chilling of cast by up to 5 degrees Celsius.
This chilling will attract moisture which can be trapped inside drying coating.
If this coating is not dried adequately before baking, it will cause adhesion problems.
You can use the more diluted version for first and second coats, and you would get good results.
No need for various strengths of mixtures.

Petander lives in a cold area, and drying off solvents is more slow, so he has plenty of time during shake coating.

[kevin c]

Thank you, Joe.

Since I have your attention, could you tell me if the cross linked polymer that is the heart of HiTek works with or without the coloring agents? Is that what is soluble in the acetone? Is what settles out and needs to be agitated back into the mix just the metallics and pigments, and actually are there to provide the desired color only?

I'm trying to understand if I need to worry when the last third of a 100 ml batch seems to have visibly less suspended solids and color than the first two thirds. I do shake it up vigorously, but I use a device that draws off the bottom of the container into a dispensing syringe, and I guess the mix is settling faster than I'm drawing it off. Final color doesn't seem that different after two coats, though (I'm using black cherry, 20/200 7 ml 1st coat, 20/100 5.5 ml 2nd coat on 5.5# of casts).

[HI-TEK]

Thank you, Joe.

Since I have your attention, could you tell me if the cross linked polymer that is the heart of HiTek works with or without the coloring agents? Is that what is soluble in the acetone? Is what settles out and needs to be agitated back into the mix just the metallics and pigments, and actually are there to provide the desired color only?

I'm trying to understand if I need to worry when the last third of a 100 ml batch seems to have visibly less suspended solids and color than the first two thirds. I do shake it up vigorously, but I use a device that draws off the bottom of the container into a dispensing syringe, and I guess the mix is settling faster than I'm drawing it off. Final color doesn't seem that different after two coats, though (I'm using black cherry, 20/200 7 ml 1st coat, 20/100 5.5 ml 2nd coat on 5.5# of casts).

kevin c
Great questions.
Would you like the recipe as well?
The whole system, is designed to work together to achieve results. Coloring is an extra benefit.
Some items dissolve, some partially dissolve, and others become involved with heat curing stage to provide various physical benefits that produces properties.
How you apply it, (provided you get reasonable representative material to coat) should not really affect any properties negatively aside from cosmetic appearance.

[kevin c]

Thanks again, Joe. Wasn't trying to pry trade secrets out of you.

Despite the occasional difficulty encountered by a very few, it's really quite remarkable that you have developed a product that can be applied so effectively by so many people who lack formal training in rigorous process and quality control, starting with different solvents, ambient temperatures and humidity, varying working and storage conditions, heat sources, sizes and weights of boolits, etc., in so many colors and at a cost of less than a tenth of a cent per 9mm slug I coat. Most impressive. Hats off to you and to your main tester, Trevor.

[Tazza]

I had some 122red that was sitting for a little while, most of the colouring had settled out into insoluble lumps, i found this out after using it on some seconds that i run through my guns, the colour was no where near as dark, but left a shiny finish that i assume was the actual hi-tek base, they felt smooth and did not wipe off. After doing that batch, i did sump the remainder of the coating and now try and mix a little more than needed for each batch so i can dump the last bit.

After Ausglock said he uses one strength, i have now gona back to one mix and don't bother with the lighter initial coat bottle, works all the same for me. Less to mix and remember what is what. If i want a thinner coat, i use less hi-tek and add more acetone with a syringe, eas enough for me.

[Burnt Fingers]

Now that the hotter weather is back here in the states I will say that I've had excellent luck storing the mixed Hi-Tek in the fridge.

Normally here in Texas the coloring agent would clump together if left out during the summer. I've got some 18 month old mix in the fridge that works just like the day it was made.

[Ausglock]

Kev. Mate. You are waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy overthinking things.
Just mix and coat.

Burnt Fingers...Storing in the fridge is the way to go. It will keep for over 2 years in the fridge and still work (even if a little darker).

[Tazza]

I'd store mine in the fridge, but the wife may string me up if i did it.....

[Avenger442]

Kevin C
Avenger
Distilling home made Alcohol can vary from 20% (40 proof) to 65% (130 Proof) or more, Ethanol content. The percentage of Alcohol content will be dependent on fractionating efficiency of the still being used and experience of the distiller.
When distilling fermented products, the strongest fraction coming off the distillation occurs at the beginning. As distillation continues, the alcohol content continues to reduce until you get mainly water. Depending on how long distillation is done will govern just how strong is final product with Alcohol content.
The old timers that used to make their own, knew by experience, at what point to stop distillation so they had maximum Alcohol content.


Joe
They had a way to proof their moonshine, as we call it. They would put some in a clear quart jar put the lid on and shake it. Something about the froth told them if it was good stuff. And of course there was the taste test.

Tazza
Invest about $200 in one of those small refrigerators if you have room. And by all means try to keep the wife happy:bigsmyl2:

[Ausglock]

doing some testing on 8 new coating colours today.
1 blue
3 pinks
1 grey
1 black
1 red
1 purple
will see how they go this arvo.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Avenger442;4927431]Joe
They had a way to proof their moonshine, as we call it. They would put some in a clear quart jar put the lid on and shake it. Something about the froth told them if it was good stuff. And of course there was the taste test.

The taste test is supreme test.
With foam test in quart Jar, when alcohol level is low, you get more foam. Increase in alcohol content reduces foam.
If the distilled brew has high alcohol content it should not foam as alcohol stops foam forming ( alcohol is a foam suppressor)

[HI-TEK]

I'd store mine in the fridge, but the wife may string me up if i did it.....

Tazza,
I am really puzzled, why any one would want to make up excess amounts of coating mixtures, and then store it instead of using most of it up?
Users generally know, how far the coating goes and how many projectiles need coating. I suppose they would try to make enough coating mixture to do the job.
If a little is left over, it is really not economical and not practical to store it, then, later on, wonder if it has gone off or not, if user cannot store it in suitable conditions to maintain stability..
The other consideration is, if stored mixture is used, then found to be no good, all this work is waste of time and no usable product is made, (not mention possibility of having to re-melt and re-cast).
If you use a mix of 20g HI-TEK to 100-120 mls Acetone, this should roughly coat 2300 (plus or minus) projectiles with two coats.
If you use these figures as a guide, it is easy to work out how much mixture you would need, based on how many casts have to be coated.

[Ausglock]

We will mix around a litre of coating at a time.
Keep it in the fridge. All good for months.

How interested would the US market be for an OD Green coating??????

[kevin c]

Kev. Mate. You are waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy overthinking things.
Just mix and coat.

Comes of having been a doc and more than a bit OC. Most folks would not want a doc who says, "Eh, that's probably good enough". Old habits die hard.

[Tazza]

Tazza,
I am really puzzled, why any one would want to make up excess amounts of coating mixtures, and then store it instead of using most of it up?
Users generally know, how far the coating goes and how many projectiles need coating. I suppose they would try to make enough coating mixture to do the job.
If a little is left over, it is really not economical and not practical to store it, then, later on, wonder if it has gone off or not, if user cannot store it in suitable conditions to maintain stability..
The other consideration is, if stored mixture is used, then found to be no good, all this work is waste of time and no usable product is made, (not mention possibility of having to re-melt and re-cast).
If you use a mix of 20g HI-TEK to 100-120 mls Acetone, this should roughly coat 2300 (plus or minus) projectiles with two coats.
If you use these figures as a guide, it is easy to work out how much mixture you would need, based on how many casts have to be coated.

Joe, generally when i get time to cast, i try and get as much done as i can, so i coat/cook one batch while still casting a different one. Say i have 125con done, i know how many i have done, but i have the machine running say 125rn and i don't know exactly how many i'll get done that day. I know i could math it all out so i mix only enough for that day, but i know i'm going to use more in the following few days or weeks. With the covid thingie, i have had spare time, i have cast enough in the last few months to use up a little under a kilo of K15, the coating i have mixed up hasn't had enough time to sit and go off for them :)

I can tell you, my poor casting machine and sizer had sure has had a work out.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

It strikes me that if Hi-Tek coating were simple there would not be 600 pages and 13,000 posts on it.

[ioon44]

We will mix around a litre of coating at a time.
Keep it in the fridge. All good for months.

How interested would the US market be for an OD Green coating??????

I had some Kryptonite Green mixed for over 6 months in my open shop and when I used it the color was like a metalic OD Green and it worked fine.

I think OD Green would sell, I know some shooters who would like a Purple color.

[ioon44]

It strikes me that if Hi-Tek coating were simple there would not be 600 pages and 13,000 posts on it.

Have you read all 600 pages and 13,000 post?
I have and alot of people didn't follow the instructions.

[FLINTNFIRE]

600 Pages it is here to stay and it works , I have read all the pages and every time it gets a new post , some have issues and there is always someone trying to help them , do take the time to read it is another way of doing things .

Coating bullets is practical and is a growing part of the hobby and business of casting , I do not bash any of the ways of lube , Hi-Tek or powder coating , read it and if you do not want to go that route then dont , it works and this thread is here to help people make it work .

[Burnt Fingers]

Tazza,
I am really puzzled, why any one would want to make up excess amounts of coating mixtures, and then store it instead of using most of it up?
Users generally know, how far the coating goes and how many projectiles need coating. I suppose they would try to make enough coating mixture to do the job.
If a little is left over, it is really not economical and not practical to store it, then, later on, wonder if it has gone off or not, if user cannot store it in suitable conditions to maintain stability..
The other consideration is, if stored mixture is used, then found to be no good, all this work is waste of time and no usable product is made, (not mention possibility of having to re-melt and re-cast).
If you use a mix of 20g HI-TEK to 100-120 mls Acetone, this should roughly coat 2300 (plus or minus) projectiles with two coats.
If you use these figures as a guide, it is easy to work out how much mixture you would need, based on how many casts have to be coated.

I have a bottle of each color available in the US mixed up plus some colors I've mixed together. Something like 18 bottles of coating right now. I cast in bursts and I like to use a different color on each batch or two.

[Stephen Cohen]

It strikes me that if Hi-Tek coating were simple there would not be 600 pages and 13,000 posts on it.

A lot of those posts deal with many issues that really have nothing to do with how to use the coating, much back and forward banter and just good fun. Any topic on this site will have much the same response. Come along mate and join us, its a fun ride. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

It strikes me that if Hi-Tek coating were simple there would not be 600 pages and 13,000 posts on it.

It is simple.
The count number is due to the know all clowns that will not be told and will not follow directions..

[Ausglock]

I had some Kryptonite Green mixed for over 6 months in my open shop and when I used it the color was like a metalic OD Green and it worked fine.

I think OD Green would sell, I know some shooters who would like a Purple color.


Did someone say Purple??? lol There is a purple.... will post photos later when I get home from work.. And a pink as well....

[eljefeoz]

I coated 30 of the Lee 130gr 0.285 for the 7x57. 21 gr of 4759. Range day on Saturday. The barrel needed about 2 wet patches. Most of the gunk was a fine dust, and some Unburnt powder.
Since the level was low in the 3 year old container , I emptied it out and had to dig through a rubbery congealed mass about an inch thick. It seems I had been using this version with no downgrading of my coating ! Good on yer , Joe !

[Ausglock]

I coated 30 of the Lee 130gr 0.285 for the 7x57. 21 gr of 4759. Range day on Saturday. The barrel needed about 2 wet patches. Most of the gunk was a fine dust, and some Unburnt powder.
Since the level was low in the 3 year old container , I emptied it out and had to dig through a rubbery congealed mass about an inch thick. It seems I had been using this version with no downgrading of my coating ! Good on yer , Joe !

I mixed some liquid coating that was around 3 years old. a thick skin on top of the bottle. cut it out and mixed.......perfect results.

[Gremlin460]

I mixed some liquid coating that was around 3 years old. a thick skin on top of the bottle. cut it out and mixed.......perfect results.

Always thought you were thick skinned...

[Cosmic_Charlie]

A lot of those posts deal with many issues that really have nothing to do with how to use the coating, much back and forward banter and just good fun. Any topic on this site will have much the same response. Come along mate and join us, its a fun ride. Regards Stephen

Well, I was resistant to powder coating but now use it for 9mm. Also just started using it in my M 27 which has tight cylinder throats.
I guess my comment was a bit dismissive. Will look into it.

[Burnt Fingers]

It strikes me that if Hi-Tek coating were simple there would not be 600 pages and 13,000 posts on it.

The signal to noise ratio is pretty low. These Aussies chat like a couple of old ladies in this thread.

[Ausglock]

The signal to noise ratio is pretty low. These Aussies chat like a couple of old ladies in this thread.

hahahahaha... Mate, always on for a good yarn.
Grem....you old Soap Dodger....where ya been? bending Bananas?????

[sierra1911]

I mixed some liquid coating that was around 3 years old. a thick skin on top of the bottle. cut it out and mixed.......perfect results.

Coated a few weeks ago with some gold liquid HiTek that I bought in 2013. Had to shake it for a while before bullets in the original Bayou Bullets can started rattling. Dried it too long, baked it too long, and baked it too hot so no testing would be needed. Came out a nice dark bronze which contrasts nicely with my brass. A case of primers later I had 5,000 rds of 45 ACP which shoot great. Cans of coating and catalyst have always been stored indoors at temps between 60 and 75F.

[kevin c]

I just checked a couple bottles of Black Cherry mixed up from the powder a year ago; one at 20/100 and the other 20/200 in acetone and stored in a California basement (cool, but never below freezing). Like eljefeoz, there was a congealed mass at the bottom. Most seemed to mix up OK, but the shaker bullet only partially broke up the clump, leaving bits suspended in the liquid that I figure could leave lumps stuck on the boolits. I didn't think it worthwhile trying to strain it so out it went (only 30-40 ml each). I only use a couple or three colors, and usually cast then coat in big batches to last me many months, so I guess I'll take Joe's suggestion to mix only what I'll use.

[Avenger442]

Several post back Joe and I had a discussion about redisolving a batch that had gone solid on me. The acetone had evaporated. I broke it up into chunks and dust. Joe recommended grinding up the chunks for this experiment in redisolving. I didn't and after six months of soaking the dust and smaller pieces had dissolved in the acetone. The chunks were still there but soft. The color was real dark in the bottle. If it happens again I'll try grinding it up in a coffee grinder. The dust and small chunks were disolved in about a week.

[Ausglock]

Just a heads up..
Joe is in Hospital. The old coot has been there for a few days. Still grumpy.

Waiting to get a camera up the rear and another down the throat.

[Burnt Fingers]

Just a heads up..
Joe is in Hospital. The old coot has been there for a few days. Still grumpy.

Waiting to get a camera up the rear and another down the throat.

Hopefully not the same camera in the wrong order.

[Ausglock]

Hopefully not the same camera in the wrong order.

Hahahahahahaha.
Rang him yesterday.
He is not a happy camper.
They will not let him out. Some sort of gut infection being treated with IV Antibiotics.
No internet so he can't see what I'm writing...hahahahahahahahahaha

[Tazza]

The old goat can never catch a break.

I too hope they go in the correct order, down, then up.

I'm sure he will be back to read your comments, give you a good whipping with more hi-tek samples to test for him. No matter how much grief you give him, he is always sending you more work to do.

All jokes a side, i hope he gets better soon, the last time he was there they tried to knock him off the perch, hopefully they have gotten some better nurses to do his IVs now.

[Ausglock]

He is back home and as grumpy as ever.

[Tazza]

Good to hear it, well, the home part.

I swear it must be you, every chat i have with him, he is never grumpy :) I think i need to stir him up a bit more.

[Stephen Cohen]

Hospital must be a seasonal thing with Joe wasn't he sick last year as well. I sympathize with him having the camera up the Kyber pass it is hard convincing the Doc to remove the tripod. Regards Stephen

[kevin c]

If you're well enough to be browsing the forum, welcome back, Joe!

[portersandstouts]

https://imgur.com/a/mi220vv Freedom Seeds in the making...264552264553264551

[Ausglock]

Good job...
Have been playing with test samples... so far, still no pink or purple...

[jsizemore]

Just a heads up..
Joe is in Hospital. The old coot has been there for a few days. Still grumpy.

Waiting to get a camera up the rear and another down the throat.

Do the throat first so they ain't got a chance to screw up.

[asmith80]

Has Kryptonite Green been renamed Zombie Green? Didn't see any Kryptonite for sale on Donnie's site, but the Zombie green looks really similar

[Jhopson]

Has Kryptonite Green been renamed Zombie Green? Didn't see any Kryptonite for sale on Donnie's site, but the Zombie green looks really similar

I talked to Donnie about two weeks ago, and he told me that he was out of Kryptonite Green at this time. The zombie green is a different color than the the kryptonite


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ausglock]

totally different colours.

HITEK Joe is back in Hospital. His Missus tried to kill him with Ulcer blowing Chilli...lol

[Tazza]

totally different colours.

HITEK Joe is back in Hospital. His Missus tried to kill him with Ulcer blowing Chilli...lol

Poor bugger, i swear he does it so he can go chat up the nurses!

[Gatch]

Hi team

Haven't been on in a while. Anyway, I purchased a mastercaster and got it running sweet. Made a few bullets and coated them in (cant remember which type) gold hitek. They look mint, smash test ok and solvent test ok. Sized to .358. Got my bullet feeder hooked up on the dillon. Ordered some choreboy from usa to scrub out my lightly leaded barrel. Can't wait to load a few up and hit the range for some testing. Covid has made getting range time difficult, but things are easing up in qld. Should be able to try some out in the next few weeks :)

Get some!

[Tazza]

Hi team

Haven't been on in a while. Anyway, I purchased a mastercaster and got it running sweet. Made a few bullets and coated them in (cant remember which type) gold hitek. They look mint, smash test ok and solvent test ok. Sized to .358. Got my bullet feeder hooked up on the dillon. Ordered some choreboy from usa to scrub out my lightly leaded barrel. Can't wait to load a few up and hit the range for some testing. Covid has made getting range time difficult, but things are easing up in qld. Should be able to try some out in the next few weeks :)

Get some!

Glad you got your paws on a master caster, they do work well.

I'm off to the local range Tomorrow for a pew or two, first shoot since the shut down, hopefully it will be a good outing!

[Ausglock]

Shooting the Errol Harper match at the Goldy on Aug 15th... Come down for a yarn.

[Avenger442]

What is Joe's status?

[Ausglock]

What is Joe's status?

Rang him yesterday. He is still in Hospital.
Anti-biotics intravenously. some sort of small bowel infection. They didn't kill it the first time and it flared up again.

So the old coot is still there for probably another week.
He was having a huge whinge about how many orders he has to fill when he gets back to work.

[kcofohio]

Wish Joe a speedy recovery!

I got my 1st order of Hi-Tek in the new gold today. Followed the mixing, drying and baking directions.
I may have shook them a bit too long on the 2nd and 3rd coating. A bit bumping surface. But they passed the acetone and smash test.
Thanks all for this thread. I gotta iron out my process and tune my heat. :)

[Ausglock]

Wish Joe a speedy recovery!

I got my 1st order of Hi-Tek in the new gold today. Followed the mixing, drying and baking directions.
I may have shook them a bit too long on the 2nd and 3rd coating. A bit bumping surface. But they passed the acetone and smash test.
Thanks all for this thread. I gotta iron out my process and tune my heat. :)

G'day. They should be still wet when you dump them from the swirl bucket onto the tray.

[Tazza]

Rang him yesterday. He is still in Hospital.
Anti-biotics intravenously. some sort of small bowel infection. They didn't kill it the first time and it flared up again.

So the old coot is still there for probably another week.
He was having a huge whinge about how many orders he has to fill when he gets back to work.

Glad they still haven't managed to knock him off. I hope he gets better soon.

Seems we can't make him happy with orders, there is no winning some times :)

[kcofohio]

G'day. They should be still wet when you dump them from the swirl bucket onto the tray.

Thank you. That makes sense. I was trying to spread the mixture out more. Light gold on silver seems hard to detect. The directions does say 15-20 seconds. I was probably going twice that long.

[Tazza]

You'll get the hang of it the more you use it. Don't be afraid to add more acetone to smoothen them out if you let it get too dry. If you dump them out and they are bumpy, there is no problem scooping them up and adding acetone to dissolve the coating and letting it smoothen out before dumping out again.

As Ausglock said, drop them while still wet.

[Avenger442]

kcofohio;

At the risk of adding to your confusion, you can also tumble in a closed container. It keeps the acetone from evaporating quickly. But be warned this is not an accepted practice by some.

The last two times I have coated I've added additional acetone and almost always closed tumbled. I tumble for about 30 seconds. Makes it easier to dump wet and covers the groves and hollow points a little better. Not that that last one matters much to performance of the coating.

Tazza is right, you'll get the hang of it. Lots of help here.

[kcofohio]

Thank you! I added more acetone and swirled for 15 seconds. They came out much smoother. 3 coats are pretty even in color.
It's getting use to not being able to visually detect much of the coating until after baking.

[Avenger442]

The first time I baked some according to directions I didn't think that I had enough on them. So, knowing little about the coating at that time, I tried to turn it into a jacket. That was a mistake that caused me to have to remelt about 10 pounds of .45 bullets. This stuff is a great heat shield if left thin. I have shot .308s with one coat and no leading. But most of my bullets get three coats.

[Stephen Cohen]

A little alcohol will also slow down the drying out while tumbling and also makes for a smoother coating. As Joe and Ausglock have often said, the first coat is the important one and should be just a light stain. If you do put a little too much on in first coat just put a few uncoated in the bucket with some acetone and re tumble the over coated cast again. Regards Stephen

[asmith80]

Just did my first batch of Tru Blue. Did some testing trying to work out time and temp. I'm at 5 minutes at 375F. They passed smash test. The picture below makes them look more blue than they are in person. Even at that short a time and low a temp they still turned a little turquoise. You can see in some of the lube grooves it got really green. There's a mix of bullets coated once and some twice in the pic below

https://i.ibb.co/qxmV3s6/IMG-20200730-125501882.jpg (https://ibb.co/N7WbdjR)

[Tazza]

They do look pretty good, a little thinner coat o adding a few ml extra acetone when you dump them to swirl may help get the lube grooves, i know it doesn't matter, but i like to have mine coated, and a little extra acetone and 3 coats and they are a uniform colour.

Hopefully you can get your temp and time just right to get them the blue you want, the pic does show a nice blue.

[Avenger442]

asmith80
Did they pass the wipe test?

[asmith80]

They did, but I tried a batch today at 6 minutes and 30 seconds and they look identical. I may stay with 6:30 just for the extra piece of mind

[Ausglock]

Well....Say hello to HITEK Kinky Pink.

It is experimental at this stage.
Joe is trying to tweak it to have a metallic component to make it sparkle...
https://i.imgur.com/OdVkiXV.jpg

[dansedgli]

Cant wait to try pink out. All the boys will be jealous.

[Tazza]

That looks really good, sadly i have no clothes that would go with it, so i'll stick to red and black :)

[Ausglock]

Cant wait to try pink out. All the boys will be jealous.

Making some 122FP for Terrence S. Might do them in Pink to match his Unicorn....

[Stephen Cohen]

That looks really good, sadly i have no clothes that would go with it, so i'll stick to red and black :)

I for one am glad to hear that LOL. If only my Gran daughter was old enough to shoot. Regards Stephen

[dansedgli]

He tried to rope me into casting all that lead last year. Id still be doing it if I said yes.

[Ausglock]

He tried to rope me into casting all that lead last year. Id still be doing it if I said yes.

hahahahaha... Tried it with me too... Told him I don't cast with Mystery Metal.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Well....Say hello to HITEK Kinky Pink.

It is experimental at this stage.
Joe is trying to tweak it to have a metallic component to make it sparkle...
https://i.imgur.com/OdVkiXV.jpg
Nice! That almost has a more opaque white base look to it. Is that so?

[Burnt Fingers]

I love it.

I make those and load them up. Put 'em in a can and those are the ones my buddies will have to shoot!

[Ausglock]

Nice! That almost has a more opaque white base look to it. Is that so?

Not sure....Joe could be using Donkey snot and will not tell anyone what he uses..

[Michael J. Spangler]

Not sure....Joe could be using Donkey snot and will not tell anyone what he uses..

Donkey Snot!! I knew it!
Now I can open my Higher Tek Bullet coating company!!!

[Ausglock]

Donkey Snot!! I knew it!
Now I can open my Higher Tek Bullet coating company!!!

:awesome::awesome::awesome::awesome::awesome:

[Tazza]

Still haven't seen Joe pop his nose in here, hope he is recovering. I should give him a call, but not even my family want to have to talk to me on the phone :)

[seowitz]

for some reason I thought the temp had to get to 200 deg c that’s why I had the oven set to 393 deg f. But since it only has to get to 180 deg c then I will try the lower temp and see how things work out. Thank you for your suggestions guys.

So was bringing the temp down to 180c the solution?

[Warhead]

Haven't been on the forum for a while, so I do hope Mr Joe is better, those hospitals are terrible for your health!

Here are some brick red 9mm boolits.

[Jatz357]

Haven't been on the forum for a while, so I do hope Mr Joe is better, those hospitals are terrible for your health!

Here are some brick red 9mm boolits.

They look nice, well done.

[kevin c]

For those wondering why blue and silver are difficult colors to produce, here's an image of my oven door after about 200 bakes.

265932

You can see the original stainless steel color of the door in the corner by the hinge, and the door glass was clear, not tinted gold. That color apparently is just what cured from the off gassed coating volatiles. I imagine the effect is much stronger in the much heavier coating on the bullet. So even a clear coat HiTek would tend to yellow with more heat or time.

[HI-TEK]

Haven't been on the forum for a while, so I do hope Mr Joe is better, those hospitals are terrible for your health!

Here are some brick red 9mm boolits.

Hello all,
Thank you for the kind wishes.
I am back on deck and firing on all cylinders.
Warhead, they look great.

Kevin C
Right on with resin color.
I have said many times, that the resin and heat curing alters many systems so colors are affected.
Heat and after many bakes, as you pointed out will yellow. That is why the colors like Blue are so difficult to stabilize and Silver ends up Yellow..
Yellow formation from resin and Blue will make various shades of green, and this green shade that results, is directly dependent on heating time and temperature reached.

[Avenger442]

Joe
Let me be the first to say glad to hear from you again.
Been talking to God about you.

[HI-TEK]

Joe
Let me be the first to say glad to hear from you again.
Been talking to God about you.

Thank you avenger.
At one stage I thought that I will be meeting him, but it turned out that I was delusional with pain killing medications..
I have had 5 weeks of in and out of hospital with severe lower abdominal pain.
With all the tests, needles, blood taking, scans, x-rays Ultrasound, it was finally determined that I had a condition, resulting from eating western style foods, spicy foods and fatty foods, and I need to eat more bland diets that wont cause hyper acidity reactions which resulted in the severe irritation and pain.
Complications were, that the hyper acidity also caused almost a raw open areas in the gut which got infected. So kilos of any-biotics over 4 weeks, both intravenous and oral treatments over 4 weeks to settle down the affected areas.
Very slow healing process.
After I was discharged from hospital, and living on clear fluid diet, I was ravenous for some food, so, I ate a meat pie on the way home.
Boy, did I pay for that decision. That night, I was back in hospital with more paid medication. One day later, all symptoms disappeared and they kicked me out.
It has now been 9 days, and so far it is all good. I am being looked after by the good wife and daughter, and they watch what I eat...

[Ausglock]

Joe
Let me be the first to say glad to hear from you again.
Been talking to God about you.

Don't go Sooking him up. It will go to his head that we like him...

[Stephen Cohen]

Don't go Sooking him up. It will go to his head that we like him...

Let me be the first to say your bloody funny, but an ***. I wonder if our yank mates will ever understand Aussie humour. Regards Stephen

[HI-TEK]

Let me be the first to say your bloody funny, but an ***. I wonder if our yank mates will ever understand Aussie humor. Regards Stephen

Stephen
I am almost getting used to him. He keeps me in line, and I do not expect any mercy.

[Avenger442]

We understand his humor just fine. After 45 years on construction sites I met many a Trevor. We have plenty of them over here. Guys that would load your sandwich for lunch with hot peppers and, if you were new to the work, send you after things that didn't exist. Like plum bob oil. They have their place and we need to just not take them serious at times. Or do what really irritates them. Ignore them. :bigsmyl2:.

In all seriousness Trevor, at times I have prayed for and about you. Just so you'll know you haven't been left out.

But back to the subject at hand. I haven't tried the blue again after my first go. I had planned to weeks ago. But many things got into my way. Hopefully that is now water under the bridge and I can get back to coating. I had trouble with them staying blue and still passing the wipe test. So many of you have done it that I know it can be done.

I did get about 10 pounds of .308 cast. Two different styles. the first out of a NOE hollow point mold similar to the long bullet shown in post 13578 by portersandstouts They are 220 grain bullets. The second was out of a Lee mold that cast 160+ grain bullets, the most accurate out of my rifles. May get back to coating this week.

[dansedgli]

Good to see you are on the mend Joe.

[HI-TEK]

Good to see you are on the mend Joe.

Thanks much.
Getting better by the day, hopefully no relapses.

[dikman]

Given the the fact that this co-vid thing is popping up everywhere I'd say Joe is pretty lucky getting out of the hospital in one piece. Hospitals are a bad place for it, judging by the number of health care people who get it.
Stay safe, mate. And keep away from Victorians.

[HI-TEK]

Given the the fact that this co-vid thing is popping up everywhere I'd say Joe is pretty lucky getting out of the hospital in one piece. Hospitals are a bad place for it, judging by the number of health care people who get it.
Stay safe, mate. And keep away from Victorians.

Thanks for good wishes, yes I agree.
I had a real scare when I arrived in emergency. Directly across from me about 3-4 meters away, they had staff fully downing up to enter a room and dispose of all gear after leaving the room. I was told I had nothing to worry about.... The hospital has no real areas where contagious people can be isolated and they send such to other hospitals. I was told, that despite claims by both flavors of government allegedly spending money on health and hospitals, no funds have been received for 20 years to increase capacity of the hospital of for new beds/staff or equipment.
Really makes you feel very comfortable....All wards were full, no beds, and I was eventually transferred to a private hospital with extremely strict restrictions for entry.

[Papercidal]

Glad to hear your doing better Joe, I’m not quite ready to switch to garden furniture paint if something happened to the hi-tek supply I might have to put some lube holes in my star dies or worse yet use some of the allox that has been sitting on my shelf for years.

[HI-TEK]

Glad to hear your doing better Joe, I’m not quite ready to switch to garden furniture paint if something happened to the hi-tek supply I might have to put some lube holes in my star dies or worse yet use some of the allox that has been sitting on my shelf for years.

How are you doing?
even if I fall off the perch, the hi-tek will flow on regardless.
I have about 100 kilos of 100% Alox for making wax type cast lubricant, and about 200kgs of Aloxdraw as used for lubricating oils additive for Steel wire drawing Dies.
They have been in storage for about 15 years.
Aside from making coatings, I used to make a hard, high temp wax for the casts where ammo was located in high temperature areas, where normal waxes melted and contaminated every thing.
All those customers stopped using waxes and used the hi-tek coatings instead.

[Stephen Cohen]

The above does not surprise me Joe, I only know of one old fart who refuses to change over from wax lube even after seeing the improvement. I concede that in some cases wax lube may suit ones needs but the sticky stuff is more than I can handle. Regards Stephen

[Tazza]

I sell 125 con fp projectiles to a dood that shoots western action, they are hi-tek coated, yet he still lubes them. I have tile hi that it's really not needed, but he likes how they shoot and that the bore is clean, yet it is without the lube, but i'm not going to argue. It could even be the fact you get that extra bit of smoke from burning lube to feel more authentic.

I have a guy that also gets the same projectiles, he has asked if i can do silver coated ones so he can use silver coated cases and projectiles, just cause.... Come on Joe, get that grey matter working to give us a silver :)

[Stephen Cohen]

I sell 125 con fp projectiles to a dood that shoots western action, they are hi-tek coated, yet he still lubes them. I have tile hi that it's really not needed, but he likes how they shoot and that the bore is clean, yet it is without the lube, but i'm not going to argue. It could even be the fact you get that extra bit of smoke from burning lube to feel more authentic.

I have a guy that also gets the same projectiles, he has asked if i can do silver coated ones so he can use silver coated cases and projectiles, just cause.... Come on Joe, get that grey matter working to give us a silver :)

I think Joe will listen to you, I though it was you that originally begged him to make a pink. I think we should give him a week or two as he is just out of hospital. Regards Stephen

[Tazza]

I think Joe will listen to you, I though it was you that originally begged him to make a pink. I think we should give him a week or two as he is just out of hospital. Regards Stephen

Don't think it was me that asked about a pink, but i know someone that would like pink. She doesn't shoot enough to warrant me doing pink ones for her though.

After what he went through in hospital, i'm happy to give him longer than just a week to get on it :) Such a back log of orders too that will take priority, then to keep avoiding the covid19.

Stay safe everyone.

[Stephen Cohen]

I am happy to say I know no one who has caught the gift from China but at my age most of my friends have passed on and most of the young don't wish to know me, must be an age thing. To those who have friends and relatives suffering this horrid blight, you have my sympathy and thoughts. Regards Stephen

[Tazza]

I am happy to say I know no one who has caught the gift from China but at my age most of my friends have passed on and most of the young don't wish to know me, must be an age thing. To those who have friends and relatives suffering this horrid blight, you have my sympathy and thoughts. Regards Stephen

They must be afraid to "catch" the old person thing :) My wife's grandmother didn't want to go into an old persons home, her words were "i don't want to go there, it's full of old people" you're only as old as you feel. Keep your self busy and you won't get old, you just feel it. You stop and it's all over.

Thankfully i don't have any friends or family that have gotten it either.

The younger generation are probably too busy playing on their phones than to sit and chat.

[Avenger442]

Up until this week I didn't know anyone that had COVID19. Then a friend of ours son ended up in the hospital with it. The state that I live in is one of the hot spots in the US. Only about 2% of the population have tested positive with the virus. So it is not surprising that we know so few that have it. They are testing more people here than probably any place in the world and the level of cases overall has been under 2%. If my math is correct. (info from https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html)

[Tazza]

That's the scary thing, i have heard that there were so many symptoms you needed before they'd even test you in the early days of it. Over here, a sniffle and they stick a swab up your nose and send it away for testing.

[kevin c]

Given the the fact that this co-vid thing is popping up everywhere I'd say Joe is pretty lucky getting out of the hospital in one piece. Hospitals are a bad place for it, judging by the number of health care people who get it.
Stay safe, mate. And keep away from Victorians.

Fact: Hospitals are where the sick folks are.

Take it from a retired MD: COVID or not, it's best to not to stay in a hospital if you can help it, and, if you have to go, to get home ASAP.

Back on topic. I've only run test samples of the TruBlu at different baking times at proper internal thermocouple temp. Just a single coat right now, that I was a bit sloppy applying (tried twice the volume of coating at half the concentration, and dumped too soon, getting some slugs with the "light stain" look, and others much more heavily coated). There was greening of the color, but, interestingly, more on the thinly coated slugs. Even at longer bake times and rising internal temperature, the heavily coated slugs seem much bluer. Maybe there needs to be enough pigment in a coating to hide the yellowing of the resin? Got stuff I need to do, but I'll be investigating this further.

[Dsltech1]

266351

New guy here, been following this post for awhile. Without it I think I’d still be on my first batch. This is the bluest I’ve managed so far. Which is a nice improvement over my first few batches. Still not as good as Ausglock though. This time I used 85ml acetone and 15ml denatured. I’m not sure if that helped or not.

[Tazza]

266351

New guy here, been following this post for awhile. Without it I think I’d still be on my first batch. This is the bluest I’ve managed so far. Which is a nice improvement over my first few batches. Still not as good as Ausglock though. This time I used 85ml acetone and 15ml denatured. I’m not sure if that helped or not.

They look pretty good to me, i need to get hold of some to try to see if i can get blue too, others seem to have so many issues, Ausglock may just have access to fancier acetone than is available over the pond :) I have had no issues with the stuff from bunnings or AIM chemicals is Brisbane.

[Ausglock]

266351

New guy here, been following this post for awhile. Without it I think I’d still be on my first batch. This is the bluest I’ve managed so far. Which is a nice improvement over my first few batches. Still not as good as Ausglock though. This time I used 85ml acetone and 15ml denatured. I’m not sure if that helped or not.

Outstanding!!!!!
Well done.

They are the same colour I get.
As for acetone, So long as it is UN1090, there is no problem.
Here on OZ, we have Digger brand from Bunnies. It is good stuff.
We buy Acetone in 20Litre drums as it is cheaper.
Next time I'll get a 205 litre drum.
Joe is sending a few test samples this week.
A tweak to the second blue to see if it will sparkle.
A metallic blue is the aim.

[Tazza]

Outstanding!!!!!
Well done.

They are the same colour I get.
As for acetone, So long as it is UN1090, there is no problem.
Here on OZ, we have Digger brand from Bunnies. It is good stuff.
We buy Acetone in 20Litre drums as it is cheaper.
Next time I'll get a 205 litre drum.
Joe is sending a few test samples this week.
A tweak to the second blue to see if it will sparkle.
A metallic blue is the aim.

Diggers is what i used too, mainly cause i wanted the bottles, i get 20l drums from AIM chemicals, they were far cheaper than 1l bunnies bottles.

Looking forward to seeing the metalic.

[Dsltech1]

Outstanding!!!!!
Well done.

They are the same colour I get.
As for acetone, So long as it is UN1090, there is no problem.
Here on OZ, we have Digger brand from Bunnies. It is good stuff.
We buy Acetone in 20Litre drums as it is cheaper.
Next time I'll get a 205 litre drum.
Joe is sending a few test samples this week.
A tweak to the second blue to see if it will sparkle.
A metallic blue is the aim.
Thanks!
The brand I started with was crown. Retailer has since switched to Jasco . I buy by the gallon. I wanted to try MEK but I couldn’t find that locally, just the substitute. Acetone was drying pretty fast at 90-100F
A metallic blue would be awesome

[Tazza]

Thanks!
The brand I started with was crown. Retailer has since switched to Jasco . I buy by the gallon. I wanted to try MEK but I couldn’t find that locally, just the substitute. Acetone was drying pretty fast at 90-100F
A metallic blue would be awesome

I found MEK was quite hard to find, i didn't think it was anything special or extra toxic vs Acetone. MEK smells far worse, stick with Acetone. I only have MEK for the coating i used to use

[Dsltech1]

I found MEK was quite hard to find, i didn't think it was anything special or extra toxic vs Acetone. MEK smells far worse, stick with Acetone. I only have MEK for the coating i used to use

I gotcha. I plan on sticking with the acetone/denatured mix until it cools off. I’m happy with how well it worked. Slowed the evaporation down quite a bit that’s all I was after.

[kevin c]

That's a great looking blue that you got there, Dsl!

Besides the use of the acetone/denatured alcohol mix, any other variations from the recommended coating, drying and baking protocol? What kind and how big of oven are you using?

[Dsltech1]

That's a great looking blue that you got there, Dsl!

Besides the use of the acetone/denatured alcohol mix, any other variations from the recommended coating, drying and baking protocol? What kind and how big of oven are you using?

Everything else was the same as the last few times when I was getting a blue-green color. Ambient in Oklahoma lately is 90+ 50-80% relative humidity. The denatured and acetone isn’t really a deviation from the recommended procedure. It allows for a 25% dilution with denatured. Oven is a Hamilton Beach convection toaster oven. 195C for about 10 minutes. I dry with a fan blowing up through the drying trays. Pre-warm on top of the oven for 5-10 minutes. I can fit 8lbs in my bake pans so the first coat was 6ml second coat 8ml.

[HI-TEK]

Brilliant Australian technology. (unfortunately it is not my idea)
Just sharing of new technology.

You can view video. Data on production appears to be far more cost efficient and streamlined.
Extremely even baking, fast and efficient. Small machine with high output.

https://youtu.be/uzh9IWl1b3U

Prototype Oven test run February 2019. 116 kg of 100 grain semi wadcutters,
First projectile in to first out is 6:00 min, conveyor speed increased, to around 5:30 min oven retention time.
.
The 116 kg, 1st in to last in, took 50 mins, and equals 139kg an hour with this run.
Oven is now averaging around 145 - 150 kg an hour and power usage around 19 kw per ton, not including warm up power usage. Oven 4600 watts at 240 Vac.

Footnote
This oven has no fans and heating elements like convectional ovens.
No energy is wasted in heating air.
Energy goes into coated cast directly.
No hotspots and uneven baking.

[Tazza]

That is awesome, it should go on my list of things to build.

[dikman]

Without heating elements or fans I'm curious just how it heats the boolits. Infrared? Doesn't seem too likely. It's got me puzzled.

[Ausglock]

Yep. Infared heating panels.

[Ausglock]

Well... Joe has done it this time...
Wait till you see the 2 new colours.

The new Metallic Kinky Pink.
And the New Metallic Hydra Blue.
Tested them today and I am impressed.
The Hydra Blue is really nice. Lighter than the Tru Blu and better coverage.
Still bakes at 195Deg C for both.
I'll post photos of them tomorrow. it was late when I finished and I want to get them in the daylight.

Looking at blue colour charts, Hydra Blue and Carolina Blue are close to this new blue...Hydra Blue sounds better...lol

[dansedgli]

Awesome. That blue looks great.

Might get some kinky pink for minor loads and blue for major.

[dikman]

Yep. Infared heating panels.

Thanks Trev, that's pretty impressive then, getting it to work in an enclosed environment like that.

[HI-TEK]

Well... Joe has done it this time...
Wait till you see the 2 new colours.

The new Metallic Kinky Pink.
And the New Metallic Hydra Blue.
Tested them today and I am impressed.
The Hydra Blue is really nice. Lighter than the Tru Blu and better coverage.
Still bakes at 195Deg C for both.
I'll post photos of them tomorrow. it was late when I finished and I want to get them in the daylight.

Looking at blue colour charts, Hydra Blue and Carolina Blue are close to this new blue...Hydra Blue sounds better...lol


You probably test shot some this week end.
I would like to have seen reaction of your fellow shooters when you flashed out the Pink coated ammo.
Did it match your pink cap and shirt? LOL LOL

[Jatz357]

Thanks Trev, that's pretty impressive then, getting it to work in an enclosed environment like that.
Lots of research and testing. The results are really amazing, beyond what I was even hoping for. Still working on many more ideas.

[Ausglock]

Shooting them Tomorrow...
These are Pearl fleck, rather than the normal Metallic.
I'm doing a 75% Pink and 25% Blue mix to see if it will go purple....Ya never know..

Here they are.:
Hydra Blue
https://i.imgur.com/0jxodgw.jpg

Kinky Pink
https://i.imgur.com/ReDhAn6.jpg

[dansedgli]

Wow, best colours yet.

When can we buy some?

[Tazza]

They turned out far better than i expected, i was thinking of Tru-blu but metalic, these are way better. The lipstick looks like just that, lipstick.

Joe, you have out done yourself yet again.

I'm really liking that blue, i think some of this will be coming home with me next time i order :)

[Jatz357]

Shooting them Tomorrow...
These are Pearl fleck, rather than the normal Metallic.
I'm doing a 75% Pink and 25% Blue mix to see if it will go purple....Ya never know..

Here they are.:
Hydra Blue
https://i.imgur.com/0jxodgw.jpg

Kinky Pink
https://i.imgur.com/ReDhAn6.jpg

They look good. Joe’s hard work on blue is paying off.

I’m interested in the outcome of the two colours mixed, whether it will produce a purple. Not sure but may give a darker or dirty purple. Will have to wait and see.

[Burnt Fingers]

OH MAN!

Those are GREAT!!!

Now I just have to wait for them to come to the US.

That blue looks better than Tru Blue IMHO.

[Joe504]

Ok, I started following this thread when it started, then dropped out of relaoding for a bit.

What method is this? And where do I find these powders?

Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Avenger442]

Ok, I started following this thread when it started, then dropped out of relaoding for a bit.

What method is this? And where do I find these powders?

Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

The coating is Hi Tek Supercoat produced by Mr. Joe Ban from Australia. And it just so happens that you have a guy right there in Louisiana that distributes it. Donnie Miculek Hi Performance Bullet Coating (225) 324-4501 (old Bayou Bullets).

The system comes in either a two part liquid (old stuff) or the newer powder forms. Both mix with acetone or MEK to produce a liquid coating which is baked on. More details from Donnie.

[Ausglock]

Purple...


A bit dark.
I'm not happy with it.
Going to try again with a different ratio.....
https://i.imgur.com/u7KI3Q0.jpg

[Joe504]

Hey Avenger, thanks for the info.

I actually ordered some powder from Hi Performance and just got it in :)

My confusion was the colors, and who was posting.

Thanks for clarifying.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Papercidal]

The new colors look great. I may have to try a few when they make it to the US.

[Ausglock]

Hey Avenger, thanks for the info.

I actually ordered some powder from Hi Performance and just got it in :)

My confusion was the colors, and who was posting.

Thanks for clarifying.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

G'day Joe.

HITEK makes the stuff here in OZ.
I do his testing here in OZ.
He then ships it all over the planet.
Donnie sells it in the US.
No confusion.

[Jatz357]

Purple...


A bit dark.
I'm not happy with it.
Going to try again with a different ratio.....
https://i.imgur.com/u7KI3Q0.jpg

Sort of a mauve colour

[Ausglock]

yeah... not what I was aiming for.

[Avenger442]

Hey Avenger, thanks for the info.

I actually ordered some powder from Hi Performance and just got it in :)

My confusion was the colors, and who was posting.

Thanks for clarifying.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Your welcome.

And like Ausglock (Trevor) said. He is Joe's testing and right hand man. And I know he will love me calling him that:bigsmyl2:.

Welcome back. There is plenty of help on this thread. And on this forum.

[Dsltech1]

That blue is nice! I’m definitely trying that once it makes it over here.

[Joe504]

Is Donnie from Hi-Tek active here?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Ausglock]

Is Donnie from Hi-Tek active here?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Donnie is on here as "Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings"
Message him

[dansedgli]

Any idea when that pink or blue will be available, or if it will be available to the plebs who aren't commercially casting?

I've got my master tuned up nicely and its pumping out bullets while I work inside the house. I've gone through almost 150kgs of lead since Monday. :D Might need to get more brass.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srO5kk84W3Y

[dikman]

I'm off here for a few days (in the world's most expensive and best-equipped hospital - and it doesn't have wif-fi!:roll:) and 2 1/2 new colours appear. I actually like them all, Joe's colours are becoming more subtle and Trev's purple (more of a mauve or lavender) doesn't look too bad. At this rate Joe should be able to overtake the PC crowd with colour availability!:lol:

[Ausglock]

I'm baking a second tweaked mauve tonight. It shoud be lighter than the first on as I reduced the blue component by 15%.
I gave the first Mauve/purple bullets to my Neighbour. He and his missus shoot ICORE... he said she hasn't been this excited since their wedding night... She has been wanting purple bullets for years...

[HI-TEK]

I'm off here for a few days (in the world's most expensive and best-equipped hospital - and it doesn't have wif-fi!:roll:) and 2 1/2 new colours appear. I actually like them all, Joe's colours are becoming more subtle and Trev's purple (more of a mauve or lavender) doesn't look too bad. At this rate Joe should be able to overtake the PC crowd with colour availability!:lol:


Dikman
I hope that they treat you better than what I got. Make a speedy recovery.

Dabsedgli
Trev asked me to tweak the Pink some more to lighten the colour, and make the new lighter blue more pearly.
Just had new materials arrive to make a Violet, and hopefully a Maroon.
Making samples to send out for testing in a day or so.

[dikman]

Thanks Joe, the staff at the RAH are exemplary and do a sterling job, considering they are being stuffed around by politicians and bureaucrats! A brand new hospital, way over budget and with all sorts of design faults because it was designed by bureaucrats who wouldn't listen to the clinicians advice on efficient design. Sound familiar? Consequently it is understaffed and there are constant equipment shortages.
I slipped and tore the ligaments in my left ankle (and a small fracture in the shinbone but they're not worried about that). Leg in a cast for 6 weeks, then another 6 in a moonboot (all being well) then rehab (:roll:). No shooting for me for a while, or casting, or reloading, or leatherwork, or anything outside for that matter! Made sure I got a medical certificate for 3 months to make sure I won't have problems with my licence renewal. Oh, and for someone who hates needles I have to inject myself with blood thinners every day for two weeks!! 2020 is certainly turning into an interesting year.

Now, back to the colours, your earlier colours were what I would call striking, in-your-face colours, but these newer ones are subtler and could indeed appeal to women more, pink and purple variations in particular. Good stuff.

[Ausglock]

The Purple mark 2 is a winner...
Lighter than the first and Shiny.
But......I'm going to try again with a smaller % of blue.
Probably go 95% pink and 5% blue.

[HI-TEK]

The Purple mark 2 is a winner...
Lighter than the first and Shiny.
But......I'm going to try again with a smaller % of blue.
Probably go 95% pink and 5% blue.

Have you a picture that you can post on mark 2 version mix?

[Avenger442]

When you have government run healthcare it cost you more in taxes and medicare. The facilities and care for the patients are not as good. Both the facilities and care are designed and run by politicians and bureaucrats instead of the people that know what they are doing. And the people taking care of you are paid less. Government is the least efficient way to run almost anything. I've seen it first hand having been employed by them for 25 years. Hope we in America never go the government run healthcare route. I have some friends that live in England (almost same setup as Australia I think) and they tell me some horror stories,

I'm still trying to get back to my hobby and do the Tru Blue again. Colonoscopy last week other family stuff this week and carrying wife back and forth to doctor/rehab visits for twelve weeks has taken some time away for now. These new colors look good to me. But until I perfect Tru Blue I'm going to resist purchasing any. Unless Joe comes up with a real orange orange. Then I'm back to talking to Donnie.

[Ausglock]

Have you a picture that you can post on mark 2 version mix?

Not yet.
It was late last night when I finished... Will get a picture today in the daylight.

[Ausglock]

Unless Joe comes up with a real orange orange. Then I'm back to talking to Donnie.

Now that the colour mix is not as affected by the resin yellowing, Maybe the Orange would work..

[Jatz357]

Any idea when that pink or blue will be available, or if it will be available to the plebs who aren't commercially casting?

I've got my master tuned up nicely and its pumping out bullets while I work inside the house. I've gone through almost 150kgs of lead since Monday. :D Might need to get more brass.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srO5kk84W3Y

That's great, who said men can't multitask. All you need is a system to feed the sprue back into the melt pot and a robotic arm to load more lead. More product = more coating with Hi-Tek, win win

[HI-TEK]

Now that the color mix is not as affected by the resin yellowing, Maybe the Orange would work..


Unfortunately, the yellowing is still there, but less visible due to alterations made with mixture.
I now may make up an Orange with modifications and also a Yellow.
I recall the Yellow being very bright, Canary color, but after baking it, went to a desert sand color.

[Ausglock]

Here it is..
The Mk2 purple.
More Mauve... I like it.
https://i.imgur.com/PJACznD.jpg

[dikman]

Looks good enough to eat!:lol:
Two coats?

[Ausglock]

Yep. 2 coats, 20gms to 100Mls Acetone
6mls to 250 bullets(2.3kg)
195Deg C for 7:30 mins

[dansedgli]

Probably my most productive week at work. :)

266898

[Ausglock]

Knocked out 7000 125g Conicals today is 3 hrs.
Do a few more tomorrow...

Looks like Lockdown is good for you, Dan..

[dansedgli]

7000 is 3 hrs is pretty good. I wish i had that kind of output.

[Avenger442]

Your right Joe the yellow was bright yellow mixed and tan after bake. The orange was bright orange mixed and burnt orange baked. I liked the burnt orange color. Just not what I was looking for.

Thanks for trying. Maybe can get to work this time.

[Jatz357]

Here it is..
The Mk2 purple.
More Mauve... I like it.
https://i.imgur.com/PJACznD.jpg

They look very swish Trevor. Small colour ratio mix has made a huge difference. Sort of matches Pantone 251 C

266904

[RydForLyf]

Damn you TruBlue!

267097
267098
267099

More to come...

[Ausglock]

You might like Vyagrah Blue instead....

Little blue Pills are good for your barrel.......:bigsmyl2:
https://i.imgur.com/6JbBL95.jpg

[RydForLyf]

I’ve been away for several months and it looks like I have a good amount of reading to do to get up to speed with Hi-TEK state of the art.

[RydForLyf]

Because of my "Be like Trevor" campaign, I have left over oven parts that are Free to Good Home.

I have seen several posts from people wanting to incorporate a switch for their circulation fan. If you want mine, shoot me a PM. It's yours for the price of shipping. Also available is the light and a couple of cooling fans.

267123
267124
267125

The switch has one NC contact for the oven light and one NO contact for the fan.

[Ausglock]

I still have the cooling fans, lights and fan switch in mine.

[RydForLyf]

I do too, but the oven I got was a double oven, convection on top and standard on bottom. I’ve cannibalized the lower oven before throwing it on the trash heap. Now I have some left over parts I can dispose of.

[HI-TEK]

You might like Vyagrah Blue instead....

Little blue Pills are good for your barrel.......:bigsmyl2:
https://i.imgur.com/6JbBL95.jpg


I dont know if you are tricking me or not. Your picture is actually showing a Blue coating.
Very pretty.....

[Ausglock]

No trickery or photoshop... it is the real deal...

[Burnt Fingers]

Calling Donnie!!

We need these new colors in the States!

[kevin c]

Less green from overbaking than TruBlu?

[Ausglock]

Less green from overbaking than TruBlu?

Don't know... I try not to overbake. defeats the purpose of PID control.

[Ausglock]

Just to satisfy the Doubting Thomases.
This is the Hydra Blue (can't call it Vyagrah Blue in case the pharma company decides to sue)
I did 4 trays.
2 of 135gn RN and 2 of 125gn Conicals in 9mm.
Each tray had 2.5 and 2.3 Kg respectively.

Coated with the standard 6mls pre tray of the 20gms to 100mls Acetone mix.
Baked at 195deg C for 7 1/2 minutes, 2 trays at once in my oven.
The photos show the bullets after sizing, under Led lights in my shed.
https://i.imgur.com/VbbXaa1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xJSijHK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/OujiQrV.jpg

[kevin c]

If I try hard, I can almost convince myself that there's just a smidgeon of blue green there, but there's no doubt I'd call that blue.

I'm just starting to work with the TruBlu. What works for me with Black Cherry doesn't for TruBlu.

My hideously expensive convection oven with K probe confirmed 195°C air temps only gets me to 180° bullet core temp at 11 minutes, 30 seconds, and then I'd get failed wipe tests at two to three minutes after. For BC I had to get air temp to 210°, which would get core bullet temp to 180° at 6 minutes with a pass on wipe and smash at ten minutes. With the TB, at 210° air temp, everything goes green at the minimum bake time of two minutes post core temp hitting 180°, by which time bullet core temp has only hit 195°.

This was on trial baking tests, where I had a load of dummy bullets at the standard weight plus several bullets coated with the color being tested. I had a K probe inserted in a coated boolit as well. Once core temp rose to curing temp 180° (I eventually moved to 185° as a margin of safety), I pulled samples at timed intervals, starting two minutes out. This saved having to cool the dummy bullets to preheating temperature for each test, but it introduced a stall in the temperature rise in the oven (and, of course, the bullets) from the oven door being opened repeatedly.

I'm wondering if the size of my countertop convection oven is an issue. The elements are just 3-4" from the bullet tray, and a little testing with an IR gun shows surface temps on the bullets at 40-50°C higher than the core readings. I'm thinking of setting up some baffles to deflect the direct radiant heating from the quartz elements. There are rack positions above and below the one I use. Maybe a few pounds of uncoated boolits scattered on trays the would diffuse the radiant heating as well as act as a heat sink. Sure the bullets will reradiate heat energy, but I'm hoping it'll be much less intense than the energized elements. Just cost me a couple new racks. We shall see.

Any comments and suggestions welcome.

[Ausglock]

Kev. does your oven have elements top and bottom?
Our Benchtop ovens do and we use the middle rack (1 tray only)
They do 12 mins at 195Deg C Air temp. They are used for Kryptonite green. I haven't tried them with either of the blues.
We use 4 benchtop ovens at once. all are different brands. But I have re-wired them with capillary temp controllers.
They are NOT PID controlled.

[HI-TEK]

The elements are just 3-4" from the bullet tray, and a little testing with an IR gun shows surface temps on the bullets at 40-50°C higher than the core readings.
I'm thinking of setting up some baffles to deflect the direct radiant heating from the quartz elements. There are rack positions above and below the one I use. Maybe a few pounds of uncoated boolits scattered on trays the would diffuse the radiant heating as well as act as a heat sink. Sure the bullets will reradiate heat energy, but I'm hoping it'll be much less intense than the energized elements. Just cost me a couple new racks. We shall see.

Any comments and suggestions welcome.

Hi Kevin C
You have identified the problem as highlighted in red..
It is well advertised, that coating stops heat transfer. I bet, the coating on outside, is probably higher in temperature above 40-50C. That is why it goes green.

Radiant heat, being so close, is the problem.

The coated bullet, needs to only get to 180C, and stay there for another 2 minutes.
By the time you finish your baking, I am guessing that the final bullet temperature is well above 200C.

Using a tightly weaved wire mesh between element and product should help greatly as mesh would heat up and spread heat more evenly.

Quick question, is your oven fan forced?

[kevin c]

My oven does have elements above and below and I'm pretty sure all four (two up and two down) are cycling. It is a convection oven (the largest countertop Breville) and I do have the fan running continuously, but I also confess it doesn't sound "cyclonic" in terms of air circulation.

Tight weave mesh, eh? I'll be looking for some.

[Ausglock]

My oven does have elements above and below and I'm pretty sure all four (two up and two down) are cycling. It is a convection oven (the largest countertop Breville) and I do have the fan running continuously, but I also confess it doesn't sound "cyclonic" in terms of air circulation.

Tight weave mesh, eh? I'll be looking for some.

Our are fan forced too.... But I wouldn't say Cyclonic... just enough to move air around.
I still remove and turn the trays at the 1/2 way time mark. this gives more uniform colour.
Even in my big oven. I turn the trays at 1/2 time.

[kevin c]

I've always turned the trays halfway. I tested the oven with multiple simultaneous K probes and found lower temperature in two opposite corners (10°C low in one, 3°C in the other). A 90° turn along with a couple firm shakes evens out the baking and helps break up any "siamese twins" (stuck together side by side bullets).

Interesting that the smaller ovens take longer (same weight load?) than a wall oven. Less wattage so less heat? Less circulating hot air?

My preliminary tests in my countertop convection oven gets a good cure on Kryptonite Green at only eight minutes (210°C). There's just a touch of darkening, so I'll either lower the temp or shorten the bake. Of course, the darkening may be the radiant heat issue.

Looking for wire mesh or the equivalent. I'm assuming the finer the mesh gauge the better? I see 20 mesh stainless steel screen, that has 52% open area, compared to, say 5 or 10 mesh, that have about 75% open area with heavier gauge wire. There's even expanded perforated sheet. Not quite sure how tight the screen should be for radiant heat blocking.

[HI-TEK]

I've always turned the trays halfway. A 90° turn along with a couple firm shakes evens out the baking and helps break up any "siamese twins" (stuck together side by side bullets).

Interesting that the smaller ovens take longer (same weight load?) than a wall oven. Less wattage so less heat? Less circulating hot air? [/COLOR]

My preliminary tests in my countertop convection oven gets a good cure on Kryptonite Green at only eight minutes (210°C). There's just a touch of darkening, so I'll either lower the temp or shorten the bake. Of course, the darkening may be the radiant heat issue.

Looking for wire mesh or the equivalent. I'm assuming the finer the mesh gauge the better? I see 20 mesh stainless steel screen, that has 52% open area, compared to, say 5 or 10 mesh, that have about 75% open area with heavier gauge wire. There's even expanded perforated sheet. Not quite sure how tight the screen should be for radiant heat blocking.

Kevin C
In reply to "siamese twins " are suggesting to me, that you may have applied too much coating. During drying and baking, too much coating film will cause those siamese twins and possibly triplets.

Reply to smaller oven; generally small ovens do have smaller wattage elements. They also are not insulated, so a lot of heat escapes through oven walls. Smaller ovens struggle to also keep up and control temperature, and also have poor temperature controls where the set temperature swings are high..

Reply to good cure of Kryptonite Green at 210C.. Main points here, as you said, radiant heat can be contributing to burning coating, but adequate curing should not need a 210C oven to do the job. All the coatings should cure adequately after reaching 180C and staying at 180C for another 2 minutes.
Having oven at 210, can quickly over cook, and results in colour changes. Having oven at 180-190C give better and more reliable reproduction of colour.

Reply to wire mesh; (just use mild steel, it is cheap) my suggestion is to get a heavy mesh with 20-30% open area. The heavier strands of wire will become a heat sink and transfer this heat more evenly to air inside oven, especially if it is fan forced. Because of a reduced open area, majority of radiant heat is prevented to get to the load surface.

If you think about heat shields, on cars, they have steel plate that becomes a barrier for radiant heat. In ovens, you do want some open areas, to allow air movement to carry heat from mesh. If you have a large open area on your mesh, then you will not significantly reduce radiant heat damage possibility.
If you can get mesh with larger open area cheaply, simply use two sheets one on top the other, to disrupt ability of direct radiant heat getting to your load.

Oven temperature matters; Please consider, that the oven is simply a source of heat. Coated cast inside the oven is what needs to be monitored for temperatures and not the oven temperatures. You need to know, how long in a specific oven, it will take a specific load to get to 180C.
When you know that detail, just add another 2 minutes to time in oven. Simple........

[kevin c]

Thank you Joe!

My oven has decent temp control as K probe testing has confirmed. I bumped up the temp mainly because of wipe off, but I may have been too unaccepting of seeing any color at all at two minutes and beyond at confirmed curing temp. I recently have accepted a little color on the Black Cherry, and have seen no failures, so perhaps I can shorten the time at curing temp (currently three minutes for BC and Kryptonite Green), and/or lower the oven temp.

I may have to redo everything once I get some wire mesh in the racks above and below the bullet rack, but that's part of the fun!

Thanks again!

[DirtyDusty]

How does the coating work with suppressed rifles? Any noticeable build up in the baffles?

[Warhead]

A few H&G 130s with 2 coats of brick red.

[Tazza]

I'd like to think they would work just fine in a suppressor, less fouling than if you just ran lube. If you keep them say subsonic/pistol speed there is no reason for them to foul up the suppressor up any more than FMJ.

Those brick red 130s look really nice.

[dikman]

How does the coating work with suppressed rifles? Any noticeable build up in the baffles?

I can't see why it would make any difference.

[DirtyDusty]

Didn’t know if the powder coating caused more build up vs a jacketed bullet.

[HI-TEK]

Didn’t know if the powder coating caused more build up vs a jacketed bullet.

Dont understand your question.
Are you trying to compare build up with Jacketed ammo versus Powder coated ammo, OR, are you trying to compare Jacketed ammo and HI-TEK for fouling of suppressors, OR, are you trying to compare Powder coating and HI-TEK coating to determine which fouls suppressor more?
Both Powder coating and HI-TEK are powders, but that is where comparison stops.
I cannot recall any comparison tests being done with the powder coat and HI-TEK for suppressor fouling.

[DirtyDusty]

I was asking about hi-tek vs jacketed. I was using the term powder coating as a generic term. Is Hi-Tek considered a powder coat, even though it’s mixed with acetone to apply? I have seen 115gr 30 cal. bullets, coated with Hi-Tek, for sale. I was thinking about these for a 300blk, but didn’t know if the coated created more residue than a jacketed bullet.



Dont understand your question.
Are you trying to compare build up with Jacketed ammo versus Powder coated ammo, OR, are you trying to compare Jacketed ammo and HI-TEK for fouling of suppressors, OR, are you trying to compare Powder coating and HI-TEK coating to determine which fouls suppressor more?
Both Powder coating and HI-TEK are powders, but that is where comparison stops.
I cannot recall any comparison tests being done with the powder coat and HI-TEK for suppressor fouling.

[HI-TEK]

I was asking about hi-tek vs jacketed. I was using the term powder coating as a generic term. Is Hi-Tek considered a powder coat, even though it’s mixed with acetone to apply? I have seen 115gr 30 cal. bullets, coated with Hi-Tek, for sale. I was thinking about these for a 300blk, but didn’t know if the coated created more residue than a jacketed bullet.

I now understand.
Many have seen HI-TEK coatings, which are powders.
HI-TEK is not for use as powder coatings, and as you said, it has to be mixed into Acetone to coat.
To answer your question, I have not had any reports from shooters that had observed any build up in Suppressors.
In theory, there should be no coating coming off to cause such build up, if coated casts have been correctly made.
Just curious, what deposits were found in suppressors with using jacketed ammo?

[DirtyDusty]

With jacketed bullets I just get some carbon residue in them. Now with my rimfire, it builds up pretty quick. Mainly powder and wax.


I now understand.
Many have seen HI-TEK coatings, which are powders.
HI-TEK is not for use as powder coatings, and as you said, it has to be mixed into Acetone to coat.
To answer your question, I have not had any reports from shooters that had observed any build up in Suppressors.
In theory, there should be no coating coming off to cause such build up, if coated casts have been correctly made.
Just curious, what deposits were found in suppressors with using jacketed ammo?

[Stephen Cohen]

There is no build up in compensators when Hi-Tek is used so I see no reason for a suppressor to be effected in a negative way, in fact I would say that compared to uncoated wax lubed cast Hi-Tek would be cleaner all round. Regards Stephen

[DirtyDusty]

So where can hi-tek be purchased in the states?

[RedlegEd]

So where can hi-tek be purchased in the states?

Hi. You can get if here:

https://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/hi-tek-supercoat-powder/

Ed

[SHORT SHELL]

I have solved the small cheap oven constant heat retaining problem years ago by simply leaving a large piece of steel plate about at least 1/2" thick in the base of the oven but any steel objects of large volume will do. The heat will take longer to reach the required temp but it will not drop much when door is opened plus I had fitted a better temperature gauge in the side above the bullet trays.

[RydForLyf]

Question for Trevor or Joe,

Is there any known solvent to remove the amber haze that builds up on the oven from baking?

[Tazza]

If you're talking about on the glass, i use a snap knife blade to scrape any residue that gets on it.

[Ausglock]

I use Mr. Muscle oven cleaner.. Spray it on, leave for 5 minutes and wipe off.
The really hard areas might have to use a scraper blade.

[kevin c]

So, I've put some 20 mesh stainless steel above and below the baking rack of my tabletop convection oven, two layers each, figuring the radiant heat might cause over curing with much higher bullet surface temps versus the bullet core temps measured with k probes inside test bullets.

Tried three colors at 195°C air temp. Starting temps of ~45°C from preheating. Time to curing temp 180°C was a bit longer than without the screens, which I guess confirms some radiant heating effect and/or also good convection heating. I pulled samples every 30 seconds after two minutes at minimum curing temp, with the k probed bullet, coated with the same color as the pulled specimens, rising to 185°C at two minutes, and flattening and dropping some at the three minute samples from repeated door opening.

Black Cherry:
268238
TruBlu:
268239
Kryptonite Green:
268240

All smash tests seemed fine. The KG I know is acceptable for wipe off, but what do you think of the other two? As you can see, there's about the same amount with all the bake times (each line is a test: fifteen swipes from the same part of the baked bullet on acetone soaked flannel for each line). More time? More heat (the TB has a touch of green, but I know there's more tweaking I can do)?

[HI-TEK]

So, I've put some 20 mesh stainless steel above and below the baking rack of my tabletop convection oven, two layers each, figuring the radiant heat might cause over curing with much higher bullet surface temps versus the bullet core temps measured with k probes inside test bullets.

Tried three colors at 195°C air temp. Starting temps of ~45°C from preheating. Time to curing temp 180°C was a bit longer than without the screens, which I guess confirms some radiant heating effect and/or also good convection heating. I pulled samples every 30 seconds after two minutes at minimum curing temp, with the k probed bullet, coated with the same color as the pulled specimens, rising to 185°C at two minutes, and flattening and dropping some at the three minute samples from repeated door opening.

Black Cherry:
268235

TruBlu:
268236

Kryptonite Green:
268237

All smash tests seemed fine. The KG I know is acceptable for wipe off, but what do you think of the other two? As you can see, there's about the same amount with all the bake times (each line is a test: fifteen swipes from the same part of the baked bullet on acetone soaked flannel for each line). More time? More heat (the TB has a touch of green, but I know there's more tweaking I can do)?



Hi kevin C
I cant open pictures.
You seem to have made progress with radiant heat prevention.
From description you gave a minute or so extra in oven should be OK.
please advise

[kevin c]

I'm not very web savvy: I managed to double post and when I deleted one, it took the attachments with it. I've redone the remaining post and the images should be there.

I did go up to four minutes after hitting 180°, but it's also true that the probed bullet temp dropped from opening the door repeatedly, so maybe the curing time really wasn't extended much beyond 2 1/2 minutes (with the door closed until two minutes post hitting 180°, temp would rise to ~185°, and would drift down with each door opening to under 180° when opening the door the third time at 3 minutes). I just jury rigged supports for the screens; I have extra racks ordered that will let me supplement the mesh with a layer of bullets above and below the baking tray, which should deflect radiant heat and also provide extra thermal mass.

Hopefully you'll see the images and let me know what you think.

[HI-TEK]

I'm not very web savvy: I managed to double post and when I deleted one, it took the attachments with it. I've redone the remaining post and the images should be there.

I did go up to four minutes after hitting 180°, but it's also true that the probed bullet temp dropped from opening the door repeatedly, so maybe the curing time really wasn't extended much beyond 2 1/2 minutes (with the door closed until two minutes post hitting 180, temp would rise to ~185°, and would drift down with each door opening to under 180° when opening the door the third time at 3 minutes). I just jury rigged supports for the screens; I have extra racks ordered that will let me supplement the mesh with a layer of bullets above and below the baking tray,mwhich should deflect radiant heat and also provide extra thermal mass.

Hopefully you'll see the images and let me know what you think.



Yes images can be seen.
From solvent wipe tests, it seems you were at the edge with final cure.
The colors that came off with solvent wipe (specifically the TRUBLU) is OK.
I suspect that an extra minute in oven at about 180-185 will fix the wipe off.
Don't forget, that you can put back pre-cooked ones into the oven, watch temperatures, and they take them out.
That should finalize curing and hopefully fix wipe off as well.

[kevin c]

Thank you, Joe!

[HI-TEK]

Thank you, Joe!

No problems. Happy to help.

[CamoWhamo]

Hi all.

I'm back to trying Hi-tek after being away from casting and coating for over a year.

I'm trying to get a decent result with candy apple red but i'm not having the same success i had in the past with the old-gold.

I've tried a few batches over the last few days and i got the same result. They are passing the acetone test but I can scrape the coating off with a fingernail and they fail the smash test.

10mins at 200c in my oven starts to brown the bullets at approx the 9 min mark so i tried using 8:30 at 200c or 10 mins at 185c and the results were all the same.

I've noticed that there were some patches on some of the bullets that would not take the coating. Even after 3 coats these patches were still bare lead so i suspect there is some contamination somewhere.

The bullets are all fresh cast. One batch was cast hours before coating, the second a couple of days before. They were dried in the sun for a few hours before going in the oven.

I suspect the old towel i drop the bullets onto out of the mold might have some oil or other contamination.

Can i wash bullets in denatured alcohol or some other solvent before coating? Should i let them dry after washing before coating?

[kevin c]

Could be the alloy. Is it one you used without problems before? A member here posted about how acid washing his casts allowed him to HiTek coat successfully with heavy metal contaminated alloy.

Contamination of the cast bullet surface like you mentioned is problematic. Oils and silicone lubes are both bad according to comments from folks in the know. I'd guess detergent washing and water rinsing would help, but don't have the personal experience.

Another thought is sizing. Apparently the die sort of burnishes the surface sized and gives the coating less to bond to. That being said I have coated a friend's sized bullets and didn't see any flaking (though he has yet to load and shoot them so it's possible that he'll come to me at some point with questions on how to clean his bore).

That's what I can think of. I'm sure others will add their experiences on other potential causes for adhesion failure.

[Tazza]

You can indeed wash them in solvent before coating, i'd use acetone to give them a good clean to hopefully get any oil that could be present off them. Any oil on them will make the coating not stick or leave a patch that looks like bare lead.