simple Hi-Tek coating

[robertbank]

gunoil you watched any news from Baltimore lately? I would be careful about referencing to many countries third world.

kryogen you can't be to far from the US border. Check out Harbour Freight stores in New York. I have seen the presses on sale there for around $50US. I am going to take a look at them when I am down in Seattle in August. If they are on sale then I could always bring one back for you. I'll be in the US for about 10 days so there will be no taxes involved other than WA State sales tax. Personally I have a RCBS Rockchucker press that works well enough. It isn't as versatile as the Arbour but does the jobs I need it to do.

Take Care

Bob

[Gremlin460]

Were there any surprises in parcel?

Yes indeed, it seems like one of your hard workers accidently added a few different samples into the pack!!!
However to be fair, I will send the bottles back, empty of course, just to help you keep your overheads down.

Will post pics once I have done some of the different colours.

Again thank you kindly, next step is to get a HT T Shirt, Trev says they are great when polishing the Holden!!

[robertbank]

Very wobbly video here Bob.. will do a better one now my powder HT has arrived.

http://s881.photobucket.com/user/Gremlin460/media/VIDEO0020_zps0bf060e4.mp4.html?sort=3&o=61

Perfect video! When you are mechanically challenged videos help.;-) I am off to see if I can find those bottles. Walmart likely sells them up here. I was wondering where you got the tubes from. Who would have guedd the garden center.

Thanks a million

Bob

[andre3k]

I just ordered a set of no lube groove .40 180gr moulds from hardline industries. I will be coating these but I ordered them to drop at .401 now I'm thinking I should have ordered them to drop at .402 or .403. What are most people here sizing their 40 cal bullets to?

[robertbank]

I size mine .401. Work well and no leading.

Bob

[kryogen]

thanks robert, I don't think that I'll need one. I might just get a classic cast press if needed. Strong enough to size bullets IMO. I don't need that much force.

I'm 8 hours north of montreal.... so that's a bit far from the us border.
And yeah, Baltimore is quite bad those days. Lots of inside problems in the usa lately.

[ioon44]

I just ordered a set of no lube groove .40 180gr moulds from hardline industries. I will be coating these but I ordered them to drop at .401 now I'm thinking I should have ordered them to drop at .402 or .403. What are most people here sizing their 40 cal bullets to?

It depends on what your barrel measures. The coating will add some diameter to boolits so you can most likely
load unsized.

I have 4 .40cal barrels, 3 measure .401" and one .4015", I size to .402" using HI-TEK Red Copper powder with 2 or 3 coats mixed 125/20. This works really great with 140gr SWC and 180gr TC boolits from 6-2-92 alloy.

The mould you are getting from hardline should be really nice.

[ioon44]

I have a question on coating.
I use 4.73 liter plastic buckets for coating, there is coating building up on the sides and always a little left on the bottom.

Should this cause any problems or does it need cleaned out a some point?

[Shotgundrums]

That's a great video Grem. Thanks!!

[andre3k]

It depends on what your barrel measures. The coating will add some diameter to boolits so you can most likely
load unsized.

I have 4 .40cal barrels, 3 measure .401" and one .4015", I size to .402" using HI-TEK Red Copper powder with 2 or 3 coats mixed 125/20. This works really great with 140gr SWC and 180gr TC boolits from 6-2-92 alloy.

The mould you are getting from hardline should be really nice.
Thanks for the responses.

[robertbank]

thanks robert, I don't think that I'll need one. I might just get a classic cast press if needed. Strong enough to size bullets IMO. I don't need that much force.

I'm 8 hours north of montreal.... so that's a bit far from the us border.
And yeah, Baltimore is quite bad those days. Lots of inside problems in the usa lately.

I hope that isn't by plane! 8 hours eh. You gotta get yourself a better vehicle. One that goes faster.
take Care

Bob

[benellinut]

I have a couple questions if you folks would be willing to advise a newbie. I'm going to start out with the xlox tumble lube I already bought from Mr. Larson and may also Hi-Tek some, good chance I will. I'm getting ready to order a melter, molds and sizer's and wonder what the recommendation would be for a choice of mold, should I stay away from the soup can TL molds if I'm going to Hi-Tek? Would I be better off getting a lube grooved bullet and use xlox or Hi-Tek on it?

Second, I'm looking at both the 10lb and 20lb Lee melter's with the pour spouts, for $10 more I can get the 20lb. Is there any disadvantage with the larger 20lb unit to a person who is a person who is a low volume caster? If not for $10 I'll go with the bigger unit.

Thanks in advance for tolerating a newbie's dumb questions.

[Avenger442]

As to problems in the USA: What you get when you have an uninformed populace electing officials that don't know how or intend to not handle the situation. We have lots of agitators here on both sides. Why can't we just sit around the fire and have a kum by ya moment LOL.

Concerning the leftovers in the coating bucket: I use the liquid 1035 Gold and there is always a little left in the bottom and on sides. I don't think the powder coating would make a difference once it is mixed it is the liquid coating. I coat in a large Cool Whip tub with a top that I put on the tub when I tumble and after. Note, the top on method of tumbling is not recommended by the guys in Australia but it works for me. I have not cleaned out the tub since I started coating and have not had a problem. I believe this was addressed somewhere back in the 280 pages by Joe. It seems that the acetone in the new mix dissolves the old mix and it just becomes a part of the coating on the bullets.

Have new (or should I say) different oven. Now to hook up the PID the right way elements only.

[Avenger442]

I have a couple questions if you folks would be willing to advise a newbie. I'm going to start out with the xlox tumble lube I already bought from Mr. Larson and may also Hi-Tek some, good chance I will. I'm getting ready to order a melter, molds and sizer's and wonder what the recommendation would be for a choice of mold, should I stay away from the soup can TL molds if I'm going to Hi-Tek? Would I be better off getting a lube grooved bullet and use xlox or Hi-Tek on it?

Second, I'm looking at both the 10lb and 20lb Lee melter's with the pour spouts, for $10 more I can get the 20lb. Is there any disadvantage with the larger 20lb unit to a person who is a person who is a low volume caster? If not for $10 I'll go with the bigger unit.

Thanks in advance for tolerating a newbie's dumb questions.

Newbie caster to Newbie
I have used both tumble lube and regular lube grove Lee molds with the Hi-Tek without any problems in my rifles. Ausglock uses both in his pistols. The newest thing is the no lube grove for the Hi-Tek and powder coated. Have not used alox or xlox and would be interested in your findings, them verses the coating, since I almost went that way.

As to 20 lb Lee melter. I have one and like it. If your going to cast for pistol and large caliber you probably will need it due to size and number of bullets you will use. Worth the extra to have capacity.
This one is what I have.

[popper]

Can the gold powder get contaminated in any way? 2 batches I dd before worked fine, this time 2 light coats, sized, third heavier coat. Lost about half to the sizer, they are darker but were cooked the same, PID controlled 385F for 10 min. Coating came off after repeated smashes to dime thickness, marks on the white paper and fine crumbles on the paper. Sizer didn't scratch the coating off, appears to have rubbed it off. I was running low on coating so mixed more in the same bottle. Is the acetone/powder ratio very critical? I thought I followed Donnie's instruction to the T but I get to recycle a bunch now.

[Avenger442]

Can the gold powder get contaminated in any way? 2 batches I dd before worked fine, this time 2 light coats, sized, third heavier coat. Lost about half to the sizer, they are darker but were cooked the same, PID controlled 385F for 10 min. Coating came off after repeated smashes to dime thickness, marks on the white paper and fine crumbles on the paper. Sizer didn't scratch the coating off, appears to have rubbed it off. I was running low on coating so mixed more in the same bottle. Is the acetone/powder ratio very critical? I thought I followed Donnie's instruction to the T but I get to recycle a bunch now.

Sounds like a first coat adhesion problem if it came off down to the lead. What was your dry time on the first coat?

[Ausglock]

Is the acetone/powder ratio very critical?
No. you can vary it by at least 10% and no problems.
if too little acetone, the mix will be thicker.
too much acetone will make the mix thinner.
They will still work, provided not too much is used of the thicker mix for the first coat.

Re: buildup in the coating bucket...
I have a huge green ring around my coating bucket about 3 inches high and about 3mm thick.
every now and then I will add about 50 mls of acetone and wash it out.
I save this and use it when I do the next mix. It is all recyclable and usable.
Even the unbaked coating that builds up on the coating trays can be washed off and recycled.

re: XLOX.....alox....why bother with the greasy gooy krap. Just HITEK...quick, clean and works better.

[popper]

Dry time overnite on freshly cast boolits. Humidity has been high, but darker coating has me stumped. Color is as they were baked too long, but the H.T.'d ones passed size & smash fine. These passed wipe test fine. Oh well, try again.

[robertbank]

I have a couple questions if you folks would be willing to advise a newbie. I'm going to start out with the xlox tumble lube I already bought from Mr. Larson and may also Hi-Tek some, good chance I will. I'm getting ready to order a melter, molds and sizer's and wonder what the recommendation would be for a choice of mold, should I stay away from the soup can TL molds if I'm going to Hi-Tek? Would I be better off getting a lube grooved bullet and use xlox or Hi-Tek on it?

Second, I'm looking at both the 10lb and 20lb Lee melter's with the pour spouts, for $10 more I can get the 20lb. Is there any disadvantage with the larger 20lb unit to a person who is a person who is a low volume caster? If not for $10 I'll go with the bigger unit.

Thanks in advance for tolerating a newbie's dumb questions.

Get the 20# pot. I started out with the 10# and eventually moved up to the RCBS 20# pot and have the Lee 20# over it. You will be surprised how quickly 10# of alloy will disappear into beautiful bullets. I can't offer an opinion on the molds. BUT BEFORE you do anything get hold of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook and read it twice. The read will save you money and you will be a whole lot wiser.

Avenger442 no worries you have a great country down there. I just had to throw a bit of a jab at gunoil for his tongue & cheek comment about Canada. The problems in Baltimore are more than just agitators as you know. We are faced with difficult social issues up here as well and there are no easy answers. Life is good

Take Care

Bob

[Avenger442]

Hey Bob
Didn't take it personal. We have to joke about it down here too or we would cry. We've just been having an awful lot of trouble with the Socialist lately.

benellinut:
Ditto what Bob said about Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. Worth the $20+ just to know what is in it. I've been casting for about a year maybe year and a half. I started to use the Alox plus Johnson wax formula but happened up on the Hi-Tek before I loaded any of what I had cast. Out of the thousands I have coated and the hundreds I have shot I've had one coating failure. It was coating not bonding to the lead on the first coat.

Have lost control of my font and size........ There is a joke in there somewhere.

[benellinut]

No. you can vary it by at least 10% and no problems.
if too little acetone, the mix will be thicker.
too much acetone will make the mix thinner.
They will still work, provided not too much is used of the thicker mix for the first coat.

Re: buildup in the coating bucket...
I have a huge green ring around my coating bucket about 3 inches high and about 3mm thick.
every now and then I will add about 50 mls of acetone and wash it out.
I save this and use it when I do the next mix. It is all recyclable and usable.
Even the unbaked coating that builds up on the coating trays can be washed off and recycled.

re: XLOX.....alox....why bother with the greasy gooy krap. Just HITEK...quick, clean and works better.

I know, I hear what your saying and I may well end up with Hi-Tek but I also have thousands of Star brand 38SPL wad cutters I bought many years ago when I was shooting Bullseye matches. They have a "Special Match Lube" (thin wax coating) that worked very well for me back then but now those same bullets in the same gun with the same classic bullseye load are now leading my barrel, I think age has changed that coating. So now the plan is to tumble lube them with the alox/xlox and use them. Wish I had bought many more of those, still has the price tag of $12.50 on the boxes of 500. I'm slowly working through my stock/stash of 38's & 45's and I'll be darn if I'm gonna pay today's prices, that's why I'm getting my ducks in a row for casting and I might as well start casting for my rifles while I'm at it. I want to be up and running before I run out but that will be a few years, these days I'm slow at everything and I just don't shoot as much as I use to. I know I could wait at least another year or two but we all know the prices of supplies and tooling will only go up. If I start now I take my time learning the process, what works for me and what doesn't, plus I can hide the......, I mean spread the cost out rather then hit it all at once (and have the wife find out). I'll start playing with boolits for the Ruger .44 Mag this summer to get my feet wet, I only have a few hundred rounds left for it, that will be my first jump in the pool.

[benellinut]

Get the 20# pot. I started out with the 10# and eventually moved up to the RCBS 20# pot and have the Lee 20# over it. You will be surprised how quickly 10# of alloy will disappear into beautiful bullets. I can't offer an opinion on the molds. BUT BEFORE you do anything get hold of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook and read it twice. The read will save you money and you will be a whole lot wiser.

Avenger442 no worries you have a great country down there. I just had to throw a bit of a jab at gunoil for his tongue & cheek comment about Canada. The problems in Baltimore are more than just agitators as you know. We are faced with difficult social issues up here as well and there are no easy answers. Life is good

Take Care

Bob


Hey Bob
Didn't take it personal. We have to joke about it down here too or we would cry. We've just been having an awful lot of trouble with the Socialist lately.

benellinut:
Ditto what Bob said about Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. Worth the $20+ just to know what is in it. I've been casting for about a year maybe year and a half. I started to use the Alox plus Johnson wax formula but happened up on the Hi-Tek before I loaded any of what I had cast. Out of the thousands I have coated and the hundreds I have shot I've had one coating failure. It was coating not bonding to the lead on the first coat.

Have lost control of my font and size........ There is a joke in there somewhere.

Yes, that book has been on my list! I've been keeping an eye out for it locally to save on shipping but so far no luck, if I don't find it soon I'll order one up. Thanks Gents!

ETA: I'm taking everyone's advice and will go with the 20lb Pro, good prices on Titan.

[robertbank]

Well the sun came out for an hour this afternoon so I mixed 20 gr powder with 100ml of acetone. Shock until well mixed, drew 5ml out as measured by a syringe, sprayed the liquid on 2000 gr (approx 100 bullets), shock container until the sound changed and laid them out on hardware cloth to dry. It was quite windy, sunny but a bit cool. They are now going to sit overnight in the garage. I'll give them the first bake in the morning. re-coat, cook and post pictures.

Oddly enough the bullets looked a lot like those in the video, coated but not overly so. Donnie told me to make sure the bullets were dry hence the delay in cooking.

Initially I thought I would just do 100, but they looked so good I did approx. 200 125 gr 9MM bullets and <100 158 gr 38spl bullets. Actually no time at all. I am going to have to get casting to keep up with this process. So far it looks idiot proof but I am along way from being finished. I have a propensity, as in a long history of screwing up, so we shall see...I remain hopeful. Hell if those bloody Aussies can do it this dumb old Canuck should be able to figure it out.:grin:

Take Care

Bob

[HI-TEK]

Hell if those bloody Aussies can do it this dumb old Canuck should be able to figure it out.:grin:

Take Care

Bob[/QUOTE]

Bob,

The fact that the coating may feel dry, (by formation of a dry skin), because of your cool conditions there, the coating internally, may trap moisture/solvent.
This is what causes adhesion failures.
Actual coating process may "chill" alloy by as much as 5 C below ambient temperatures.
This cooling attracts moisture which is then trapped below dry skin formation.

Simplest way is to help drying, is by pre-warming alloy you are coating to between 25-35 Celsius.
Then, coat quickly, and dump on mesh to dry.
The residual warmth in alloy should help with quicker and more complete drying.
If you are quick enough with coating, any chilling with coating process, hopefully should not cool alloy to below ambient temperatures.

Warm surfaces do not attract moisture, Cold surfaces attract moisture.
Just something to think about, if you have a glass of water that is warmer than ambient temperature, no condensation forms on outside the glass.
If you then cool that same water by adding a little ice, condensation will start on outside glass.
This comparison can be directly compared with the coatings.

In cool conditions, drying is poor at best, due to such condensation taking place.

[kryogen]

I just coat bullets and dump on the tray, and immediately place on top of oven 12 minutes to dry.... with the oven heat and the fume fan, they dry really quick.

[robertbank]

Joe good to know. The bullets would have been at 21C as they are stored indoors. Once coated they were out in the sun. I doubt there was any condensation. I will take your advice though and warm up my bullets somewhat before coating.

Did you get my email today?

Bob

[Chunky Monkey]

Question: what are you folks using to polish your sizing dies? Can you explain a little about how you polish them.

[Avenger442]

Question: what are you folks using to polish your sizing dies? Can you explain a little about how you polish them.

Ordered this off of Ebay and used the Dremel tool.


You will have to hunt around for right size and any good metal polish will do. Mothers makes a good one.

[kweidner]

Popper, I had some acetone grab some moisture once and had an issue. Per advice here I got fresh acetone and the problem went away. One possible scenario anyway. I live in a very high humidity area and am OCD about my acetone now.

[HI-TEK]

Popper, I had some acetone grab some moisture once and had an issue. Per advice here I got fresh acetone and the problem went away. One possible scenario anyway. I live in a very high humidity area and am OCD about my acetone now.

Small pick up of moisture with solvent, will affect drying rate. You just have to keep in mind to try and coat & maintain your coated projectiles a few degrees above ambient temperatures.
Absorbed water per say, should not affect coatings. It only affects adhesion, when moisture is trapped between outside dry skin of coating and the alloy.

Some people use MEK, (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) similar family to Acetone but a little slower drying and slightly less attractive to moisture pick up.

Many prefer to use it in Summer months when it is hot.

[kryogen]

is there any issue coating cold projectiles (18 celcius garage) if they are dried on top of the oven immediately after coating?
I find that when I preheat the projectiles, the acetone dries too fast and I tend to get clumps

[ioon44]

At 18deg C I would warm boolits up to 25-30deg C before coating, then I place in a heated cabinet at 55deg C for one hour.
I have a PTC surface thermometer model 312F this helps to hit the 25-30deg C so the coating doesn't clump.
This seems to eliminate any ambient temperature extremes.
I am using 125/20 mix with 2 to 3 coats and getting nice smooth coatings passing smash and wipe test + no leading.

[Gremlin460]

I have a question on coating.
I use 4.73 liter plastic buckets for coating, there is coating building up on the sides and always a little left on the bottom.

Should this cause any problems or does it need cleaned out a some point?

Nope, ignore it, every time you shake in the container the acetone will remelt some and redeposit some, it really doesn't matter, however keep a separate container for different colours is my advice.


edit, put a lid on it too, or cover it. to stop dust and **** contaminating the container.

[gunoil]

Ordered this off of Ebay and used the Dremel tool.
138211138212

You will have to hunt around for right size and any good metal polish will do. Mothers makes a good one.

You have to take burrs off first, set and watch tv w/a pencil. U can wrap paper around and go thru all the stages of sand paper. These are high quality, what i use for deep luster all the way up to 6000 grit, & yes,,, use them all. Do not cut corners.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/8FD4459B-1A49-4522-BC54-FDC66781E51F_zps7bhh30fu.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/8FD4459B-1A49-4522-BC54-FDC66781E51F_zps7bhh30fu.jpg.html)

Also if you want a deep luster feed ramp, the luster that you wonder how'ed they do that?,,, This is how. Use all pieces and take time. U can buy paper local at auto body supply warehouse or on ebay. Get all the #'s in photo above.


-----------------------------------------
brevity&misspelling rampant

[Gremlin460]

Perfect video! When you are mechanically challenged videos help.;-) I am off to see if I can find those bottles. Walmart likely sells them up here. I was wondering where you got the tubes from. Who would have guedd the garden center.

Thanks a million


Bob

Hint, do NOT screw the top on hard, it needs to be slightly loose when you shake to mix, or the acetone pressure will force coating up the tube like a fountain.
Either leave top loose or pull tube up above liquid level before shaking initial mix. Don't ask me how I know!!. A small pin hole in the lid works as well.

[Avenger442]

You have to take burrs off first, set and watch tv w/a pencil. U can wrap paper around and go thru all the stages of sand paper. These are high quality, what i use for deep luster all the way up to 6000 grit, & yes,,, use them all. Do not cut corners.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/8FD4459B-1A49-4522-BC54-FDC66781E51F_zps7bhh30fu.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/8FD4459B-1A49-4522-BC54-FDC66781E51F_zps7bhh30fu.jpg.html)

Also if you want a deep luster feed ramp, the luster that you wonder how'ed they do that?,,, This is how. Use all pieces and take time. U can buy paper local at auto body supply warehouse or on ebay. Get all the #'s in photo above.


-----------------------------------------
brevity&misspelling rampant

Didn't run into any burrs on the Lee sizers. The polish solved my problem. But like the idea of using the abrasive sheets as long as it doesn't change size and shape of the hole. What type of abrasive is on the sheet?
I have used up to 2000 grit abrasive sheets to polish various items on autos (other hobby).

[220]

Benellinut

Using alox to relube them should work. The HBWC I used to buy had a lot of fine swarf from swaging caught in the lube. I would wash them in white spirits and relube with alox and it reduced the leading.
HT them wont be an option, trying to remove all the lube is nearly impossible so alox will be the cheapest/ easiest option.

I had good results in 38 with alox and light loads but you will need to keep an eye on your seating die as alox will slowly build up and change the seating depth. You may need to clean the die every couple of hundred rounds to keep OAL consistent.

[gunoil]

Avenger, those are for restoration of aircraft canopy, just a very high quality. The warehouse's should have all those #'s and will do same thing. The 1500 will start the the process. When you get to 6000, it's visable. Start with a feed ramp, you will not believe it. Cratex will no give you same luster, this works.

The hi-tech will be real shiny & smooth.

[robertbank]

Well I have some very good news and some so, so news.

Firsr I had great luck with 4,000 gr. of 9MM bullets )475 125 gr TC bullets. They passed the smash and wipe tests. Tomorrow we go shooting with them.

My 158gr rn bullets did not fair so well. They passed the smash test and the wipe test BUT when sized the coating rubbed off in spots using my Lee push through .358 die. It may be a case of mosture getting under the coating. Not sure. In any even t the lot will be lubed and shot for practice. Tomorrow I will take up on Donnie's suggestion and lightly heat the bullets before applying the first coat. I am only going to do a few this time. Once done I will gently dry them in my oven at 100F or less. I will do the tests and see how they make out. I hate to think my Lee die is the problem...We shall see.
Tomorrow I will load and shoot my 9mm bulets to see how they perform.. They should be fine. They look excellent.

Take Care

Bob

[Michael J. Spangler]

Shot some rounds in the 44 mag tonight
429421 dropped at about 251 grains

50/50 COWW and Pure
Coated 3 times with Hi Tek liquid Gold
Loaded over the following
19 Grains of 2400
11 grains of unique
9.7 grains of universal

These were all in the 1200 FPS range, some a little less. All Around 36,000 CUP or so.

My barrel was clean after about 60 rounds of the assortment I brought with me.
Bravo Hi Tek. It holds up to full power loads of 44 mag. I know you can push them much faster with the slower powders, but it still handled all of that pressure and did its job. I'm sure it can handle a few hundred FPS more.

I did not get to recover any bullets from the berm but I plan on trying to do so at next weeks range trip.

Thank you Hi Tek

[HI-TEK]

Shot some rounds in the 44 mag tonight
429421 dropped at about 251 grains

50/50 COWW and Pure
Coated 3 times with Hi Tek liquid Gold
Loaded over the following
19 Grains of 2400
11 grains of unique
9.7 grains of universal

These were all in the 1200 FPS range, some a little less. All Around 36,000 CUP or so.

My barrel was clean after about 60 rounds of the assortment I brought with me.
Bravo Hi Tek. It holds up to full power loads of 44 mag. I know you can push them much faster with the slower powders, but it still handled all of that pressure and did its job. I'm sure it can handle a few hundred FPS more.

I did not get to recover any bullets from the berm but I plan on trying to do so at next weeks range trip.

Thank you Hi Tek


Thanks for posting your results.
Much appreciated.
I am glad you have had success.
From what I can remember, reading on this site, some had achieved 3500ft/sec with other ammo.
It is pleasing to get confirmations of success of using coated projectiles, from a whole lot of people with many and various ammo and guns used..
Thank you all.

[Michael J. Spangler]

no, thank you for bringing this product to us!
Thanks to donnie at bayou too. I have been using this stuff for a while and i still have almost half of my original liter left. This stuff goes such a long way.
I think i need to order some more this year just to have on hand.

Thanks guys!

[Ausglock]

Michael. Get some of the powder hitek. you will love it. Far easier to use and store. Cheaper transport too.

[kryogen]

I tested my 358 hardered that I posted yesterday, there appeared to be flaking on sizing so I guess it's no surprise that they leaded some.
I shot 50 rounds, leading isnt too bad, but it's still there and visible.

Next try will be .357 triple coated aluminum PB checked bullets. I'll just wait until I get my GC maker to coat and shoot more.

[ioon44]

Range report, I stated using Candy Apple Red powder and had the cleanest barrel I have seen after shooting 50 rds.

This was in a Lone Wolf Glock .40 S&W, 180gr TC sized .402", WST powder 900fps, two coats Candy Apple Red powder mixed at 125/20. This barrel is as clean as any jacketed bullet I have shot through it. Also ran some 9mm With 2 coats of Candy Apple Red supper clean barrels also.
The Candy Apple Red seams to cover better than the Red Copper with the same mix which works great also.

I sized these on a star sizer with dies made by lathesmith who is a member here, didn't have any scraping or rubbing off of the coating, just smooth easy sizing. Also didn't have to polish or do any thing to the dies.

[robertbank]

Just to clarify the moisture concerns. My bullets are stored at room temperature ie 70 degrees F or 20C. The bullets as stored will have a temperature of 20C. When I go out to the garage at a temperature of 12C moisture condensation will not take place. Condensation occurs when you go from a cold temperature to a warm temperature eg anyone with glasses knows their glasses fog up when they come into a warm house from a cold day in the winter. They don't when you go outside on a cold day.

Will test my 9MM bullets later this afternoon. They look good and I expect excellent results.

Take Care

Bob

[popper]

Coated some casting rejects this morning to experiment. Used plenty of the gold mix. I saw dark swirls of something in the mix - some kind of contamination. Mixed in old mustard bottle washed and cleaned with acetone before any mixing. Tumble jug always used for the gold and kept closed. For grins I did the smash test on ones that didn't get coating scraped off - passed fine & out of same batch with coating fail, i.e. all done the same way. I'll get another mix container and start over. Did smash test on some 9mm recently cast but using year old dark green liquid - passed fine, same procedure used for all coating.

[robertbank]

Drives you crazy doesn't it! I thought the leading Gods were bad enough.

All part of the fun....discovering what you did wrong.

Bob

[gunoil]

Make sure you have a good boolit size die. Lee, sometimes there is nothing u can do for them and sometimes u can polish it out. Get a die from laithesmith on this forum if you want the real deal.

[robertbank]

I have a fellow who makes the dies down in Montana. His are works of art. I will see if the problem is the die. If so it will be moved along ot put in the garbage. No sense in saddling someone else with something that is not right.

Take Care

Bob

[Avenger442]

Continuation of BHN testing on water drop after last coat. All BHN are average of at least two test. Some four test when I had a question about test.

4/3/15 cast about 8 lb of LEE C309-160-R. Alloy 98% COWW (depending on which source you use between .5 and 2 % antimony) plus 2% tin. Dropped from mold into tap water. 4/16/15 BHN tested 17.9.

4/16/15
1st thin coat Hi-Tek 1035 Gold liquid mixed Color 20 ml; Catalyst 4 ml; Acetone 30 ml. Dried overnight about 11 hours. Baked 390 F +/- 10 F 12 min. air cooled. Passed smash and wipe test. BHN was 12.5. Loss of 5.4 BHN. Sized .309 no gas check added.

Cooled about 30 minutes between fist and second coat. 2nd coat same mix dried 30 minutes over oven with fan in basement temp about 70 F humidity 50%. Baked 390 F +/- 10 F for 12 minutes air cooled.

Cooled about 30 minutes between 2nd and 3rd coats. 3rd coat same mix dried 30 minutes over oven same as above.

The above is two batches of bullets about 4lb each.

First batch baked same temps and time as above and then water dropped into tap water. BHN 4/16/15 right out of water tested 12.5. BHN on 4/30/15 12.5. Same BHN so no real advantage to water dropped 12 min cook after 14 days.

Second batch Baked same temp for one hour and water dropped into tap water. BHN on 4/16/15 right out of water 12.5 BHN same as 12 min batch, BHN on 4/30/15 14.3 a gain of little less than 2 BHN.

138366 Two bullets on right are out of the two batches. Bullet in middle is 12 min bullet and bullet on right is the one hour bullet. Last smash test on the one hour bullet flaked a little coating from the lube grooves. Not sure why. Rest was adhered.

Always think of another test I could have run to nail something down. Could have tested after second coat to see if there was a loss in BHN before last coat and probably needed to test an air cooled bullet when cast but this alloy has been averaging 12-13 BHN air cooled in previous test if I remember correctly. So these would probably not help.

On a previous test same alloy I found approx. a 2 BHN gain doing regular heat treating process as described on LASC site then water dropping after last coat. There was a big drop in BHN from 14 days after heat treat to BHN at 14 days after coating and water drop. If I remember correctly 21 BHN down to 14 BHN.

[robertbank]

Good information to know. Thanks. Drop in hardness would be expected as we are annealing the bullets.

Take Care

Bob

[Avenger442]

Good information to know. Thanks. Drop in hardness would be expected as we are annealing the bullets.

Take Care

Bob


Hey Joe
Can we get this coating in an air cured. I could shoot really hard bullets that way.:kidding:

[robertbank]

Well you won\t harden them up by heating the bullets up and then letting them cool. Learned that in Grade 9 science class. Do the same thing when I want to soften the necks of 38spl cases prior to making them into 41 lC cases. Interesting how we have to re-invent the wheel just to make sure round is best.

Take Care

Bob:wink:

[popper]

You need some shot (As) in there to increase the hardness a lot.

[Shotgundrums]

+1. A table spoon of magnum shot ( not chilled shot ) or so, will appreciable hardness a 20 lb pot of COWW alloy. This is a great way to add antimony and arsenic to the melt by small amounts.

[Ausglock]

This barrel is as clean as any jacketed bullet I have shot through it. Also ran some 9mm With 2 coats of Candy Apple Red supper clean barrels also.


It's bloody good stuff, eh?

Playing with mix n match of different colours to try and get a purple this weekend.

Stay tuned...

[Shotgundrums]

upon getting a new oven, I'm thinking of using my current oven as a "Drying" oven. Is this a bad idea? 150F or door cracked?

[Shotgundrums]

It's bloody good stuff, eh?

Playing with mix n match of different colours to try and get a purple this weekend.

Stay tuned...

Trev, I coulda swore there is or was a purple. I've seen it some time ago.

[Avenger442]

I was just joking around about shooting the real hard bullets. My main goal was hunting loads. Hard bullets punch small holes which are fine for target. But need expansion for hunting unless I start Hi-Teking fifty cal.

My intermediate goal with casting was to be able to produce bullets that I could load to equal the factory loads that I can go down to Wal Mart and buy. Doing this with no more fouling than I get out of the factory loads. As far as that goes, I'm there and maybe a little better. Next goal is one hole groups at 100 yards with the cast .308. Right gun the new Lee .312 mold with a more aerodynamic bullet and messing with the other components........ maybe I get there.

Bought some .223 Federal Match 69 grain bullets to take to the range and match up against my .223 48 grain Hi-Tek reloads. Supposedly the Federal round is the one used to test the rifle and will give one hole groups at 100 yards. We will see. I'm not impressed with the gun so far. But it really hasn't had a fair day at the range.

It is doing OK on the Beavers in the lake at 100 yards plus, with the Winchester Varmint loads. But these are really big Beavers. One came up in the yard last week digging holes and the rifle was in the basement. I grabbed my 1200 fps pellet gun and shot him right at the point where his tail meets the body. Was aiming at his head. But 75 yards is a little long for the pellet gun. He jumped turned and looked up at me and took off.

I would hollow point my .308 round and use them. But neighbors already are asking about the .223. They are OK folks and understand the damage the Beavers are doing and need to deplete population. But bringing out the cannons may stretch their patience.

Has anyone use the Forester hollow point bit that fits their case trimmer?

[ioon44]

upon getting a new oven, I'm thinking of using my current oven as a "Drying" oven. Is this a bad idea? 150F or door cracked?

My drying setup has reached 140deg F and my coatings are working fine, the temperature is not 140deg F for the full hour.
I don't know at what temperature the force drying might cause a problem.

[kryogen]

I will try some gold tomorrow.... 357, 3 coats, no flaking

[HI-TEK]

I don't know at what temperature the force drying might cause a problem.[/QUOTE]


Ioon,

Just want to clarify matters with drying, baking & temperatures.
1 Drying.
Simple fact of coating with solvent based coating, there is a chilling affect on alloy as solvent dries.
This was measured, and, test on one batch showed a 5 degree C, temperature drop.
If you are coating at say, 20C in room, it is suggested and may be better, if the alloy is at about 30C before starting to coat. (This is not a hard and fast rule, but would help drying/rate time).
This way, a loss of 5C, would leave coated alloy at least 5 degrees C residue above ambient temperatures.
Coating should then should dry more quickly and have minimal moisture pick up during drying.
Warm air drying is OK, and many can warm air dry at 35-45C, if it is suspected that drying is a problem.
It is not suggested, that coated projectiles are heated above 50C for extended periods.
Having said this, no tests have been done to confirm if this heat will cause problems at curing conditions later on.
2 Baking.
In order for correct bonding & cure to take place, the alloy & coating must reach a minimum of 180C, and kept there at least 2-3 minutes after reaching the 180C.
The "adhesion" and "bonding", starts to occur simultaneously, when temperatures start to get to 180C. Heating at 200C, simply allows faster heat input transfer rates.

If initial coating & drying is not correct, and before placing product into oven to bake, heating such an insufficiently dried product, or baking it longer in the oven, will not fix the problem of lack adhesion.

If you place into oven, a totally dried coated alloy, when coated alloy, approaches 180C, there is a window of opportunity occurring, (that lasts for about 60-90 seconds), where the dried coating again becomes fluid on the surface of alloy, and, this "melt flow" at around 180C, allows coating leveling, and coating becomes sticky and bonds to alloy, (and other surfaces).
After about 90 seconds, (after 180C has been reached), the coating re-solidifies again, and continues to remain a solid with extra heating or temperature/time.
Extra heating time in oven, simply drives off extra unused components as vapour from coating further hardening the heat cured film..

However, if moisture is present with not adequately dried coatings, the moisture is trapped between alloy and coating.
This causes separation (lifts) coating off the alloy , and then separation, (only sub micron), allows coating to get heated much quicker, as it is not in intimate contact with alloy, and, this suspended film cures OK, but there will be very poor adhesion taking place, as at the time of "melt flow" (at 180C), this molten film is not in direct contact with alloy to allow the bonding to occur, as vapours between coating and alloy prevent good contact to take place.

Upon cooling this cured coated alloy, you will have a totally enveloping & cured coating, but this cured film is simply sitting and covering the alloy as like a hard shrink wrap, and poor or no bonding.
That is why some had observed being able to scratch off baked coating with finger nails and coating shred off with sizing and shooting.
I apologise for long winded reply, but this matter is of importance, so users are aware why poor bonding may occur.

[kryogen]

will try some tomorrow and report.

[Shotgundrums]

I think I may just switch to MEK in the winter, prewarm bullets, bucket, coat, blow-dry with blow dryer after 30 mins.

[HI-TEK]

I think I may just switch to MEK in the winter, prewarm bullets, bucket, coat, blow-dry with blow dryer after 30 mins.

Sound like a great plan.
Just be very careful with hair dryer. The solvent fumes may ignite if it gets some sucked into it.
There are glowing heating elements inside hair dryers, and it is a problem with flammable vapours.

By all means, dry with warmed air, but insure that warming appliance is not near fumes/vapours and drying vapours are driven well away from heat source so there is no possibility of fire..

[Ausglock]

Trev, I coulda swore there is or was a purple. I've seen it some time ago.
There was. But it was not a success. I still have some, somewhere.
I am hoping for a lighter purple.

[Shotgundrums]

Sound like a great plan.
Just be very careful with hair dryer. The solvent fumes may ignite if it gets some sucked into it.
There are glowing heating elements inside hair dryers, and it is a problem with flammable vapours.

By all means, dry with warmed air, but insure that warming appliance is not near fumes/vapours and drying vapours are driven well away from heat source so there is no possibility of fire..

good point, noted. Thx

[Ausglock]

Pre-warm on one of these laid flat.
http://econo-heat.com/aus/products/eheater-wall-panel-heater/

[Shotgundrums]

Pre-warm on one of these laid flat.
http://econo-heat.com/aus/products/eheater-wall-panel-heater/
Now this looks promising. Thx ,Trev!

[ioon44]

I don't know at what temperature the force drying might cause a problem.


Ioon,

Just want to clarify matters with drying, baking & temperatures.
1 Drying.
Simple fact of coating with solvent based coating, there is a chilling affect on alloy as solvent dries.
This was measured, and, test on one batch showed a 5 degree C, temperature drop.
If you are coating at say, 20C in room, it is suggested and may be better, if the alloy is at about 30C before starting to coat. (This is not a hard and fast rule, but would help drying/rate time).
This way, a loss of 5C, would leave coated alloy at least 5 degrees C residue above ambient temperatures.
Coating should then should dry more quickly and have minimal moisture pick up during drying.
Warm air drying is OK, and many can warm air dry at 35-45C, if it is suspected that drying is a problem.
It is not suggested, that coated projectiles are heated above 50C for extended periods.
Having said this, no tests have been done to confirm if this heat will cause problems at curing conditions later on.
2 Baking.
In order for correct bonding & cure to take place, the alloy & coating must reach a minimum of 180C, and kept there at least 2-3 minutes after reaching the 180C.
The "adhesion" and "bonding", starts to occur simultaneously, when temperatures start to get to 180C. Heating at 200C, simply allows faster heat input transfer rates.

If initial coating & drying is not correct, and before placing product into oven to bake, heating such an insufficiently dried product, or baking it longer in the oven, will not fix the problem of lack adhesion.

If you place into oven, a totally dried coated alloy, when coated alloy, approaches 180C, there is a window of opportunity occurring, (that lasts for about 60-90 seconds), where the dried coating again becomes fluid on the surface of alloy, and, this "melt flow" at around 180C, allows coating leveling, and coating becomes sticky and bonds to alloy, (and other surfaces).
After about 90 seconds, (after 180C has been reached), the coating re-solidifies again, and continues to remain a solid with extra heating or temperature/time.
Extra heating time in oven, simply drives off extra unused components as vapour from coating further hardening the heat cured film..

However, if moisture is present with not adequately dried coatings, the moisture is trapped between alloy and coating.
This causes separation (lifts) coating off the alloy , and then separation, (only sub micron), allows coating to get heated much quicker, as it is not in intimate contact with alloy, and, this suspended film cures OK, but there will be very poor adhesion taking place, as at the time of "melt flow" (at 180C), this molten film is not in direct contact with alloy to allow the bonding to occur, as vapours between coating and alloy prevent good contact to take place.

Upon cooling this cured coated alloy, you will have a totally enveloping & cured coating, but this cured film is simply sitting and covering the alloy as like a hard shrink wrap, and poor or no bonding.
That is why some had observed being able to scratch off baked coating with finger nails and coating shred off with sizing and shooting.
I apologise for long winded reply, but this matter is of importance, so users are aware why poor bonding may occur.[/QUOTE]

Good info to read, always good to learn something new.

My drying cabinet usually runs 50deg C to 60deg C depending on the ambient temperature, the coatings have been passing the smash and wipe test and no leading. I have baked right after 1 hour drying, also 4 hours later and sometimes the next day.

So if there could be a problem I can adjust the temperature to 35-45deg C for the 1 hour I have been drying.
I chose 1 hour for when I put up to 12 trays of boolits at 2kg per tray, if I only have 4 trays I stop at 30 min.

I started this system when the ambient temperatures were like 5deg C.

[Shotgundrums]

A food dehydrator might not be a bad idea, too. One with tiered trays. Around the same price as one of those heat panels for a good one.

[robertbank]

I got back from the range. All went well. No leading at all sizing .356. I may go back to .357 to ensure a solid seal. As long as I keep the bullets warmer than the outside air (not hard to do when the temp is around 10C) there is no chance of the bullets attracting moisture. Today I did an hundred by warming in my oven first to about 100F. They just felt warm to the touch and that is all. First coat was very thin. I then dried in the oven with temp. hovering just below 100F. Bullets cam out ok and they were then placed in the oven at 400F for about 12 minutes. The Gold becomes more of a bronze then gold. They look good and I am sure they will shoot good. Thanks go outto Ausglock and is insightful comments, to Joe who developed the product and to Donnie down in Louisiana wo sent along easy to read instructions and provided additional commentary over the phone.

This process is much easier than powder coating and less expensive too. I will continue to powder coat over next winter for something to do. Once the powder is used up I will switch all my efforts over to HI-TEk. I expect to do enough bullets this summer to last me well into next year. I would say the whole process is less expensive but man I will be doing so much more shooting I am not so sure I am saving much money but then you can't take it with you.

All the best

Take Care

Bob

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=robertbank;3235584]I got back from the range. All went well. No leading at all sizing .356. I may go back to .357 to ensure a solid seal. As long as I keep the bullets warmer than the outside air (not hard to do when the temp is around 10C) there is no chance of the bullets attracting moisture. Today I did an hundred by warming in my oven first to about 100F. They just felt warm to the touch and that is all. First coat was very thin. I then dried in the oven with temp. hovering just below 100F. Bullets cam out ok and they were then placed in the oven at 400F for about 12 minutes. The Gold becomes more of a bronze then gold.


Bob,
Just a couple of things.
1. At 10-20C, there is not much drying occurring.
Aside from Acetone being a good scavenger for Water, any Water that is taken up from ambient conditions, will be very slow to dry at these temperatures.
2. Warm drying at 80-100F may be OK, but time in oven to dry, will vary greatly, and will depend on loads, and amount of moisture absorbed by each load and air circulation around drying alloy..
3. Before you cook, if your projectiles are pre-warmed already to about 100F, and you place these into a pre-warmed 200C oven, then you may have slightly over cooked these, as tell tale signs by your colour turning more Tan.
4. The Tan colour develops with Resin system and contributes to final colour.
I also suspect, that may be you did not mix your brew well when you decanted, as films should have more gold "metallics" to resin ratio, to maintain Gold colour and reduce Tan influence of baked resin...

But it seems, that you are onto it. and when you get into the groove just keep on grooving....:drinks:

[Gremlin460]

Wish it would stop darn raining!!

[HI-TEK]

Wish it would stop darn raining!!


Raining, we have floods here with severe torrential non stop rain.
Went into town, two hours later returned, and our road was under a foot of water.
Lucky I was in a truck.
Others in cars were stranded each side and could not get through.

I remember the "experts" advised, that we are in drought, and will not see any rain for a long time.
In 4 months, we have had about 500mm rain, probably 3 times average for this time of year.
And, there is more coming.

Time for sipping, soothing honey bourbon in front of a fire-place.. lol lol...

[Ausglock]

Hope the Donkeys are OK.
Do you let them in the house in weather like this?

[HI-TEK]

Hope the Donkeys are OK.
Do you let them in the house in weather like this?


They are curled up with us in front of the fire.
After all, they are almost family....lol

[popper]

Did a test on 10 yesteday, dry gold1035. Tried go get a light first coat. dried fo 2 hrs, cooked 385F (8 min). two had large areas of no color. Applied heavier second coat, cooked, all had color. two didn't survive the sizer, coating rubbed off, a LOT of it. One smash test OK, one didn't. Third coat, all remaining survived sizer great. I'll try to repeat the test this wekend but I am beginning to think too light a coat (too liquid - some remained in the jug after first coat which poured out when dumping the boolits) is the problem.

[robertbank]

Rain, speaking of rain. As much as I dislike snow, ok when it is snowing hockey is on, I digress. We have had a very wet spring. It is now to warm for it to snow on top of the mountains so rain it is. The yellow globe that rumour has it that some folks see rising in the east was supposed to pay us a visit today but there is an absence of blue as I look out my window. I will do some more testing again today with some 9MM sized .357.

Joe thanks for the explanation on drying. I am going to set my temperature down to 375F for the next batch. My bullets are more bronze than gold and your explanation explains what I thought was going on. No worries though the bullets shot well enough. I respect your opinion on the drying. Here we get a relative humidity of around 80% or greater. It never feels muggy though and we do get a lot of wind due to weather patterns coming off the North Pacific aided no doubt by the Coast Mountains. Once we have a few days of sunshine I will get back to coating and intend to do it early in the morning and leave the bullets out against the house facing south. With the breeze and sun they will dry out as the ambient temperature is always 10 degrees higher there facing the sun.

The metallic flake looks cool on the bullets. Very impressed. Today will be spent casting in the main. Tomorrow is our 45th so I shall be spending the day entertaining ``she who knows best`` and extolling the virtues of me buying a new Toyota Tacoma. Are they ever nice trucks. Toyota must think a lot of them as well if the price is any indication. What ever happened to the $4K new pick up truck. Perfect size for what I need it for. Toyota does not sell the Hi-lux truck in N.A. The Hi-Lux is sold in Australia is it not.

All the best

Bob

[Ausglock]

Hilux are over priced and under speced.
I have Mitsubishi Triton dual cab. far better than the lux.
I think you lot get them a Mits L200 or something.

[robertbank]

Mitsubishi has been late entering the Cdn market. The big three dominate the half - one ton market. Toyota has gained sales in the half ton, three quarter ton market with their Tundra. The Tacoma which is larger than the Hi-Lux and smaller than the Tundra is the best selling mid size truck in Canada and likely the US as well. 95% of the Tacomas ever sold in Canada remain on the road. The Tacoma is made in the US. The truck is bullet proof with a huge following here in Canada. For this part of the country the truck is pretty much the go to in it`s class. The Ford Ranger and now the GMC - Chev twins have been introduced but do not have the build quality of the Toyota Tacoma. The big three survive on volume and good value for the guy who turns his vehicle over every three years. Long term the Ford and GMC are the vehicles to have if you must have a big three vehicle. The N.A. auto industry is fully integrated between US, Canada and now Mexico. The US and Canada economies have been fully integrated for the last 70 years or so.

From what I can understand the Hi-Lux eas deemed to be to small for the Cdn and US market. We do not get the small diesel engine you guys get either. Stupid save the planet laws are the primary reason. Makes no sense but not much a Liberal does makes much sense IMHO.

Take care

Bob

[Avenger442]

Actually my preference here in the States on this size pickup is the Nissian Frontier. Better hauling capacity in the bed it is wider between the wheel wells. Tacoma is a nice truck but bed is smaller here and my lawn mower will not fit. I have a friend that has a Mitsubish. I believe it's like the one Trevor has Your not a legal red neck here unless you own a truck. Even if it's built in Japan.

[220]

Put some gold 6:2:92 through my dodgy barrelled 9mm today, fired 25 and checked, as expected some lead but only in one groove for about 1"
Fired another 40 and checked again, lead in 3 groves for a lot of the barrel but the other 2 looked clean as were the lands, gas cutting for sure as you would expect with a barrel that is smaller near the chamber than the rest of it. Group for the last 5 were as good as the first 5 so accuracy OK for 65 shots at least.
With where Ive come from with this barrel Im claiming a win today, still leading but usable accuracy for enough shots to shoot a match without GC.

Thinking of revisiting some loads with a little softer boolit, the loads I tried today are only running about 20k psi, maybe a slightly softer boolit will bump back up a bit quicker eliminating the gas cutting.

[kweidner]

Bob,

I run 365 in my ovens and let dry 30 minutes. They then preheat on top of oven for the time length of the batch before it so 12 minutes. Yours look a little dark but should do just fine. I went to 365 to preserve the nice gold. My ovens are spot on as those temps a verified with a digital thermometer so your results may vary.

[robertbank]

Kweider - thanks I will reduce the temperature, You are right the bronze colour is a sign of a little higher temperature than is required. My RCBS lubricator has been reduced to lubing my rejects from either my PCing or Hi-Tek coatings. As I get better at managing the process I suspect the Lubricators fate is sealed. For one thing the Hi-Tek process is so fast and so convenient the volumes I do will only be limited to how much time I devote to casting, all of which curtails my shooting.....Ah the trials of being retired, hardly any time to do much else. Is today a week-end day or mid week.:wink:

Avenger442 - Mitsubishi doesn`t sell their truck line up here, only cars. As I indicated earlier they were very late entering the Canadian auto scene and remain a very small player up here. The Tacoma was designed and is made in California not Japan. Nisan still sells their Frontier truck but you don`t see many up here. For what ever reason they never caught on as a working knock about truck. Tacomas are the truck for both urban winter conditions or when you want to go mountain climbing around here. Jeeps are a close 2nd. The Big 3, remain top dogs as you would expect Ford, GMC-Chev, then Chrysler Ram. For re-sale value the Toyotas rule. My 25 year old 4Runner worn our and slowly disappearing before my eyes will fetch $2,500 from the bush and fishing crowd. Even a dealer wants it....

Take Care

Bob

[Balta]

After a some break ,finally back to casting and HiTek Coating

Little experimenting with colours..hie rs a a Red Copper and Black texas Tea...50-50 ratio...

I use 16 grams of Hitek Powder to 100 ml acetone ,and a 3 coats...To be safe not to put to much..but it works great!
138531
138532
138533
Closer...mix red copper and texas tea
138534

[Shotgundrums]

Those are neat looking. I did two coats of green and one coat of red copper. Baked for 1hr each. They looked like that.

[220]

My 25 year old 4Runner worn our and slowly disappearing before my eyes will fetch $2,500 from the bush and fishing crowd. Even a dealer wants it....


Same story here with the resale value of older hiluxs.

The hilux size truck market in Aus is massive, there is no shortage of new models to choose from just about every manufacturer has a player, GM, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Mazda, Isuzu, VW, the last few years has even seen the emergence of manufacturers from China, India and Malaysia.

[robertbank]

The big market in NA remains the full truck (1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton) are the big sellers. Below that are the Toyota Tacoma size trucks which I think are a little bigger than your Hi-Lux trucks. For awile the smaller truck market about dried up and there is little demand for the 1/4 ton vehicles I see available in Australia. Aside from contractors and farmers most of the 4x4 trucks climb over urban curbs and occasional snow banks. Up here the 4x4 market is large due to winter conditions and work in forestry.

I suspect me buying a new Tacoma in the coming weeks will ensure my son has a hunting truck sometime in the next 10 years or so. This is not forever and the chain is not as long as it once was.:D

Shot some more of my Hi-Tek bullets today with no leading at all. I may do some more coating tomorrow.as the weather will be quite warm. 18C is in the forecast...no %$#$%$# rain.

Take Care

Bob

[HI-TEK]

After a some break ,finally back to casting and HiTek Coating

Little experimenting with colours..hie rs a a Red Copper and Black texas Tea...50-50 ratio...


Closer...mix red copper and texas tea
138534

That looks a great colour.
Looks like you are joining the Ausglock scientists clan with colour experimentations. lol lol
Ausglock is now aiming to get a Purple, which was not possible previously.
The pressure is on.....

[Avenger442]

Went to the range today to try and find the sweet spot load for my Hi-Tek bullets and the .223. I didn't find it with the H4895. Any suggestions on a powder? 48 grain cast bullets Remington cases CCi primers out of a 24" barrel 1 in 9 twist.

Gun had a fair day at the range with little wind. The Federal match kings were grouping within one inch maybe a little better. I haven't had a chance to measure the cast bullet groups but they were so bad I probably wont even post them. Best looked like it might have been 3" with one flier excluded.

Also have not had a chance to check the barrel for leading. Had to go right to Mothers to do some chores for her. Don't expect to find any since these loads were lower pressure loads than those previously shot.

Bob
Most of the Japanese, German, Korean cars and trucks are made in the US with that country's designed parts. Can't wait till we start making Ferrari I'm going to the plant. Canada also manufactures the Big three up there. I had a friend that worked for Dodge/ Chrysler after college back in the 70s somewhere in Canada making vans. Never figured that one out since his major was aviation?? Later he worked in Huntsville for the Space Flight Center which made more sense.

[robertbank]

Avenger your friend would have worked in Windsor at the Chrysler plant. Huge mini Van plant there. I still think they make the mini van there. The auto industry is fully integrated with the US as you know. I had several parts companies banking with me when I worked in Peterborough, ON. Fisher Gauge in Peterborough makes most of the zinc screw tops for spark plugs for GM IIRC, That and the zinc castings for Gillette razors.

Take Care

Bob

[Shotgundrums]

Digression...

[ioon44]

Range report , I shot the IDPA match yesterday and the guns running the Candy Apple Red powder and Red
copper powder mixed 125/20 with 2 coats worked great no leading no smell.
These were shot out of 9mm, .40S&W & .45 APC.


One thing I have a question on is the Black Liquid, I have it mixed at 5-1-10. The first coat and the second coat passed the smash and wipe test fine, but the third coat didn't pass the smash test. All 3coats had the same drying and baking process.
I am going to shoot some of these and see how they work in .40 S&W.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I used some red copper powder for the first time today. A buddy of mine made up a batch of it a month or so ago and dropped it by my shop.
I gave it a good shake and processed the boolits as i normally do. It had a goldfish hue to it because I used my gold coating tub with the red copper.
They passed the wipe and smash test but I noticed flecks of red dotted in the coating like glitter. It didn't seem to coat as evenly and consistently as my Liquid Gold.
it's not the best picture but i think you can see the red flecks.
any idea as to whats going on here?

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll105/MJSpangler/Casting/3FC35CB7-57E0-4DEB-95E9-33DD171FC436_zpsiqknogod.jpg (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/MJSpangler/media/Casting/3FC35CB7-57E0-4DEB-95E9-33DD171FC436_zpsiqknogod.jpg.html)

nice you can see my mokume game wedding band

[Ausglock]

One would swear that the coating was not mixed and only the resin was applied.
Looks more like gold 1035 with red contaminates.

[Michael J. Spangler]

That's what I was thinking.
This was the powdered coating. He mixed it with acetone over a month ago and it's been sitting in the jar since then.
Maybe his acetone was bad? Could that happen?
I'll try to add a little more acetone to see if it melts the color

[Ausglock]

if it wipes and smashes OK, then I'd say the acetone was OK.

[popper]

130 gr RNFP BB 9mm AC 80/20 Isocore with liquid green 3x (heavy/full dark green coating) AND hot load of WST. No leading after 20 rnds. Shoots nice from and XDs. Nice round holes between sneezes and coughs, allergies are terrible.

[benellinut]

For a newbie at coating, is there colors of Hi-Tek that would be better? I rather stay more toward natural lead or copper color but would give in for success. The more I read this thread and see the pics you guys post the closer I'm getting to dropping the coin. Oh yeah, where do I get it?

I did a quick spring cleaning of the garage Saturday and headed to the scrap yard. I walked away with five, five gallon buckets of wheel weights and $102 in my pocket. I knew old catalytic converters were worth something but I was surprised when they told me they would give me $100 for it, plus money I got for the other scrap metal. And they were happy to get rid of the wheel weights, the guy said he didn't want to sort through them and offered them to me for $20 and said he'd loaded em in the Jeep for me. With the unexpected extra cash burning a hole in my pocket I ordered my Lyman Caster's Handbook today. Tomorrow I'll be ordering the Lee 20 Pro pot, a couple molds and sizing kits, damn it was a good weekend! Think I'll give the shop another overhaul and hit the other scrap yard next weekend! :grin:

Now I've got to sort the lead from the zinc and steel and get smelting!

[Michael J. Spangler]

For a newbie at coating, is there colors of Hi-Tek that would be better? I rather stay more toward natural lead or copper color but would give in for success. The more I read this thread and see the pics you guys post the closer I'm getting to dropping the coin. Oh yeah, where do I get it?

I did a quick spring cleaning of the garage Saturday and headed to the scrap yard. I walked away with five, five gallon buckets of wheel weights and $102 in my pocket. I knew old catalytic converters were worth something but I was surprised when they told me they would give me $100 for it, plus money I got for the other scrap metal. And they were happy to get rid of the wheel weights, the guy said he didn't want to sort through them and offered them to me for $20 and said he'd loaded em in the Jeep for me. With the unexpected extra cash burning a hole in my pocket I ordered my Lyman Caster's Handbook today. Tomorrow I'll be ordering the Lee 20 Pro pot, a couple molds and sizing kits, damn it was a good weekend! Think I'll give the shop another overhaul and hit the other scrap yard next weekend! :grin:

Now I've got to sort the lead from the zinc and steel and get smelting!

Wow that's an awesome day.
Seems it all works the same. The metallics are supposedly better suited for the heavy loads as I understand.
Either way they all work well and for general pistol loads up to the hot stuff I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.
I have used mainly the old liquid gold and the color really grows on you after a while. Nice stuff.

[Avenger442]

Both bayoubullets.net and gatewaybullets.com can get you the coating. Usually one or the other has different colors.
There are two systems liquid and powder. They say powder is easier and it ships cheaper. Have some black powder but have not tried it due to success with the gold metallic liquid. The metallic colors can stand the pressure/heat in the barrel better according to Hi Tek. They are mostly blacks greys golds and coppers. There are others. Some non metallic in the greens reds .... Ausglock and Joe can chime in on the colors. Maybe some day there will be a color chart like at the paint store.

You are doing better than I did last week at the scrap yard. They let me sort through the weights out of a 55 gal drum for 40 cents a pound. There were so many steel and zinc in there that I only came away with 75 lb of lead after digging through the first foot of weights. It was fairly common to find about 150 lbs each time I went last year.

[gunoil]

Gateway, do u have the 38/357 rnd nose flat boolit from star for sale? They say you bought the die and gave me your #. It's 125 gr.

[Avenger442]

60 Hi Tek bullets through the .223. While groups were not good, no lead in barrel.

[leadman]

Avenger, I found that the harder the boolit the better in the 223 Rem. Out of my 16" AR15 with one in 9 twist I can get 1 to 2 moa with heat treated linotype and a max load (27grs?) of H4895. Same load in my Contender 23" 1 in 12 twist barrel will hit over 3,600 fps. In the Ar it is about 3,050 fps.
Loads a couple of grains less do shoot better but just wanted to see how fast I could get them to go and still hit the target.

[Avenger442]

Avenger, I found that the harder the boolit the better in the 223 Rem. Out of my 16" AR15 with one in 9 twist I can get 1 to 2 moa with heat treated linotype and a max load (27grs?) of H4895. Same load in my Contender 23" 1 in 12 twist barrel will hit over 3,600 fps. In the Ar it is about 3,050 fps.
Loads a couple of grains less do shoot better but just wanted to see how fast I could get them to go and still hit the target.

BHN on these is harder than I normally shoot. Can't remember exact but around 20. Out of my bolt gun 24 inch barrel and 1 in 9 twist at 100 yards 27 grains of H4895 groups about six inches. Just goes to prove that old thing about guns and sweet spots. Best groups have been at 23 grains about 3 inches. It seems to get smaller as I go down so I'm headed in that direction with the H4895 or changing powder. According to Hogedon 4895 is a good reduced load powder and can go down to around 17 grains with this bullet. How heavy is your bullet?

I also have an AR15 and may try the 27 grains in it to see what it will do. Just wanted to make sure no leading before putting in the AR.

[Balta]

Range report , I shot the IDPA match yesterday and the guns running the Candy Apple Red powder and Red
copper powder mixed 125/20 with 2 coats worked great no leading no smell.
These were shot out of 9mm, .40S&W & .45 APC.


One thing I have a question on is the Black Liquid, I have it mixed at 5-1-10. The first coat and the second coat passed the smash and wipe test fine, but the third coat didn't pass the smash test. All 3coats had the same drying and baking process.
I am going to shoot some of these and see how they work in .40 S&W.
Have pics of that mix?

[ioon44]

Have pics of that mix?

Not sure which mix you are asking about, but I don't have a way to do pics.

The Candy Apple Red is more of a maroon from my baking time and temp but is working well.
The Black ended up sort of black and brown from my baking time and temp, not had time to range test this yet.

[robertbank]

From my limited experience the longer the time in the oven or heat the darker the bullets get.

Ausglock likely has a better answer for you when the sun gets to him on the other side of the planet.

Take Care

Bob

[ioon44]

From my limited experience the longer the time in the oven or heat the darker the bullets get.

Ausglock likely has a better answer for you when the sun gets to him on the other side of the planet.

Take Care

Bob

I am doing 400deg F (204deg C) and baking 12min with 2kg boolit load, the maroon color looks good and passes all the test.

I may start reducing temp & time just to see where the color changes, hate to mess with what is working as I am really tired of re melting boolits .


I have noticed that with the ambient temp getting to 30deg C I have had to turn the dial down on the oven to maintain 400deg.

[robertbank]

I am a total amateur at this but if I were you just change one thing at a time.

The process like PCing can be very frustrating at times.

Bob

[ioon44]

I am a total amateur at this but if I were you just change one thing at a time.

The process like PCing can be very frustrating at times.

Bob

Right on with changing one thing at a time, I am starting with the oven temp. I just baked some at 395deg F but didn't change the color any.
My oven is a Jen-air convection full sized built in type and I have added a layer of fire bricks on the bottom rack so when I add a tray of boolits I don't get much temperature drop so that is a factor in how the boolits look.

I am also a total amateur at this. I tried the PC process and like the HI-TEK much better.

[robertbank]

Right on with changing one thing at a time, I am starting with the oven temp. I just baked some at 395deg F but didn't change the color any.
My oven is a Jen-air convection full sized built in type and I have added a layer of fire bricks on the bottom rack so when I add a tray of boolits I don't get much temperature drop so that is a factor in how the boolits look.

I am also a total amateur at this. I tried the PC process and like the HI-TEK much better.

Me too.

I do have about 6lbs of powder to consume yet as well as a few thousand bullets. They both will get consumed in due course. For me the winter will be spent casting and powder coating bullets while the Hi-Tek will be utilized in the spring/summer/fall. Man you can do a lot of bullets in a hurry using the Hi-Tek method though. I just put the first coat on about 1200 bullets and I spent less than 15 minutes doing it. They are out drying in the warm sun and light breeze as I write this. I am going to leave them out there until late the afternoon. Cook them either tonight or tomorrow morning, do the 2nd coat and leave that coat to dry all day. Then we bake them and put them away for sizing at another time. We get lots of rain so I like to shoot when it is warm and dry. Weather looks good out to the end of the month. May is one of our drier months. After that flip a coin.

Take Care

Bob

[Ausglock]

From my limited experience the longer the time in the oven or heat the darker the bullets get.

Ausglock likely has a better answer for you when the sun gets to him on the other side of the planet.

Take Care

Bob


Yep. The longer you bake, the more the resin yellows.
This is why the black can actually look dark brown.
The black has a large amount of solids in it. You really should use a "shaker marble" in your mixed coating to ensure that the solids are mixed in and not sitting on the bottom of the coating container.

[ioon44]

Yep. The longer you bake, the more the resin yellows.
This is why the black can actually look dark brown.
The black has a large amount of solids in it. You really should use a "shaker marble" in your mixed coating to ensure that the solids are mixed in and not sitting on the bottom of the coating container.

I put a boolit in the can as a shaker marble, this last mix was the first time I got it shaken enough so the Black coating did not turn green after the first bake.
The mix is 5-1-10 and the first and second coats passed the smash test but when I done a third coat it did not pass the smash test.

I loaded 50 rounds of this "180gr .40cal 900fps" and shot out of a Glock lone wolf barrel with no leading and no bad smell or any build up.

Is 3 coats of 5-1-10 too thin for the liquid Black and caused the smash failure? Or does it matter if the barrel runs clean.

I done the 180gr with two coats of Candy Apple Red at 125/20 mix at the same time, passed smash test and clean barrel.

Like the powder mixes best.

Thank you for all your help.

[Ausglock]

5.1.10 is too thin for my liking.
I only use 5.1.7
Powder is mixed 20gms:100mls
Both these give me Zero failure and great coating.

When I am testing new coatings, and they are bad colours or just plain ugly, I do another 2 coats of black to cover the bad coatings and still have usable bullets.
So, that is 4 coats applied and baked. Zero failures. Easy sizing and Zero smoke when fired.

[ioon44]

5.1.10 is too thin for my liking.
I only use 5.1.7
Powder is mixed 20gms:100mls
Both these give me Zero failure and great coating.

When I am testing new coatings, and they are bad colours or just plain ugly, I do another 2 coats of black to cover the bad coatings and still have usable bullets.
So, that is 4 coats applied and baked. Zero failures. Easy sizing and Zero smoke when fired.

I was using the thin coatings during the cold weather, about time to mix more so I will go back to the recommend mixes with the weather getting warmer.

Is it normal for the Black to look slightly green after the first bake?

[robertbank]

Yesterday went great for me. Temperature was 22C with humidity at 39%. I have just over 1,200 bullets waiting for their 2nd bake today. I am going to finish them up, size and load 50 and head for the range. Weather is holding up for most of next week so I should be able to put in a seasons worth of bullets before next Friday. I have been using Gold but will switch to Green tomorrow. For the Canadians on the forum I am a fan of the Edmonton Eskimos football club. Green & Gold being the colours of the team and the University of Alberta.

I am using the powder and go 20 grams to 100ml of acetone. Toast them at 400F for 10 minutes.

Take Care

Bob

[popper]

IMHO it seems like trying to get a good 'thin' first coat by using more acetone may be a problem for many. I got what appears to be a thick first coat using the dry gold - they shot fine (300BO). Tried thinner and wouldn't pass smash - recycle. For 9 & 40 I used liquid green, 2 light coats so they are green but not 'solid' green - used 231 powder and no problem. Those were also oven dropped (1 hr bake on last coat). WST didn't work at all. Did some more 9mm and 3rd coat was thick (last years mix) AC'd - WST worked fine. They looked like they had been ESPC'd. For those of us that don't autocast - test small batches and get the procedure down pat. Recycling is cost effective but consumes time.

[robertbank]

Popper why do you bake your last coat so long? Is it to harden the coating more?

Take Care

Bob

[robertbank]

I spent yesterday coating 16K grams of bullets (158gr & 125gr). I used the Gold powder. I mixed 20 grams of powder to 100 ml of acetone. This mixture after vigorous shaking was applied to 2,000 gr. of bullets using 5ml of the mixture. The bullets were laid out on hardware cloth to dry in the sun. The temperature was 22C with a slight breeze. After four hours in the sun, a second coat was applied as above. The bullets received about three - four hours of sun and were covered over night. This morning the bullets were dry and in the morning sun. Over the course of this morning the bullets were baked in my convection oven at 400F for 10 minutes. Some were left as long as 15 minutes. At this point things were going really quite well.
I took the bullets down to the gun room and began sizing the 38spl 158gr RN bullets. Over 60% of the bullets had the coating removed along the casting seam or on the last drive band. Where the coating was removed on the driving band it was always approx. 1/8 - 1/4 in width.

My only question at this point is can I re-coat the sized bullets with missing coating, let them dry and re-coat them before cooking them again or am I wasting my time trying to recover these bullets.

I have not started to re-size the 9mm bullets but will. It maybe a case of the 38spl bullet itself. The good news is both types of bullets were cooked together. If the 9MM bullets sized ok then I will know it is the bullet. If they don't then I spent a day in the half getting a head start on my summer tan. The weather is going to rise to 27C early next week so this is prime coating weather. Humidity is around 39% which is dry for this part of the world.

Part 2

First I spoke to Donnie at Bayou Bullets. He put me on to the likely cause and came up with a solution. While we spoke I paid some attention to the offending bullet. The likely cause for the coating being sheared off is the bullet and the mold it comes out of. The bullet mold has had the bevel base removed and now casts a flat plain base bullet. The diameter of the bullet is likely just a tad over the rest of the bullet. This would account for the small removal of coating on the bottom driving band. His solution is to size the bullets between the first cook and the 2nd coating. Once the bullets are sized the 2nd coating will be undisturbed. He has had good luck doing this method in his testing. Problem disected and a solution at hand. Thanks Donnie and Bayou Bullets.

Proof of all of this is the 9MM bullets I coated along with the 38spl bullets are sizing without issue. These are bullets from the Lyman 356402 mold. I shoot a zillion of these each year so this is really good to see.

Did I say how impressed I am with Donnie and his willingness to help this old Canuck from Canada. Thanks Donnie we will do business soon once I get some more of the Gold bullets done and then move to green.

Take Care

Bob

[kryogen]

I hope that you baked after the first coat, before the 2nd coat? Doesn't seem so obvious in your post?
Did you just coat, dry, and re-coat before baking? If so, your coat is too thick and that's why it failed.

[robertbank]

No I baked between coatings.

No it failed because the bullet has a bottom driving band that is slightly wider than the rest of the bullet due to the fact the bevel based was machined off by the former owner of the mold. No worries when you were lubing bullets but when you use this process it causes a need to adjust your methodology for that bullet. It just happens the bullet in question is my go to bullet for IDPA SSR Division.

The 9MM 456402 bullets came through with flying colours. They were processed along with the 158 gt RN for my GP-100.

No big deal the stuff works great, is easier to apply than PCing, is faster and for volume shooters who still work for a living the process is an avenue to less expensive shooting. Too, Hi-Tek coating is significantly cheaper than PCing. Guys that work can do this on the week-end. I am retired and never get to enjoy a week-end anymore.:D I have to squeeze it in when I can.

If you have been sitting on the sidelines on this product. My advice if you are in the US or Canada is to get hold of Donnie at Bayou Bullets he will fix you up with the Hi-Tek product at reasonable prices and he does provide excellent support. When you live where I do support like that is appreciated.

Take Care

Bob

[Ausglock]

All my flat base bullets get 1 coat then sized. the second coat then goes on and baked. no further sizing required.

[robertbank]

All my flat base bullets get 1 coat then sized. the second coat then goes on and baked. no further sizing required.

Good to hear. I don't intend to size a 2nd time. I am comfortable with the process now and am on my way. This process is really very fast and produces a very nice shooting bullet. Now the issue will be to keep ahead of the casting. I can see myself spending most of the winter laying in a supply of bullets to deal with in the spring for the summer season of shooting. Life is good. My next challenge will be to see if my pre-sized bullets originally destined for PCing will take the Hi-Tek coating. Donnie was optimistic. I will know next week. If they do then I should be set for the rest of the year.

Got to thank the Aussie gun Gods for sending this product our way.

Take Care

Bob

[Gremlin460]

another +1 for what Ausglock said..

cast/coat/bake/size-358/coat/bake load

I do however resize a second time if loading for the wifes 1911, it has a matched barrel so I size to 356 for that.

Sounds like a lot, but the coating is over in seconds.
The drying is also easy as no labour input.
The baking is mostly sitting on ya bum waiting for the timer to ding.

Now if only someone would invent a brass magnet, for case pickup life would be easier

[benellinut]

another +1 for what Ausglock said..

cast/coat/bake/size-358/coat/bake load

I do however resize a second time if loading for the wifes 1911, it has a matched barrel so I size to 356 for that.

Sounds like a lot, but the coating is over in seconds.
The drying is also easy as no labour input.
The baking is mostly sitting on ya bum waiting for the timer to ding.

Now if only someone would invent a brass magnet, for case pickup life would be easier

A brass magnet you say? Well they make those! I think they were originally made to pick up nuts, walnuts, acorns and such but then they caught on in the shooting sports. http://www.holtsnutwizard.biz/index.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0MqEWW3L8c

[HI-TEK]

A brass magnet you say? Well they make those! I think they were originally made to pick up nuts, walnuts, acorns and such but then they caught on in the shooting sports. http://www.holtsnutwizard.biz/index.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0MqEWW3L8c


What a great gizmo.
It would be great to pick up Macadamia nuts from ground as well.

[benellinut]

What a great gizmo.
It would be great to pick up Macadamia nuts from ground as well.

Yes it would, it would pay for itself in one trip to our range where the majority of people don't reload and don't pick up their brass and we have three different police dept's that use our range to train on. Although sometimes it is hard to fight the urge to pick up more free brass, I've really got enough brass now to last me my lifetime so I leave it for the other guys.

[Ausglock]

Can never have too much brass.......never....

[robertbank]

I have one. It works on hard barren ground, and cement floors but not so good if you have gravel and/or grass on your outdoor ranges.

Take Care

Bob

[popper]

Popper why do you bake your last coat so long? Heat treating for 40 & 9. Test for 9 says I don't need to do that anymore. AC from now on for HiTek. I've had trouble sizing after 2nd coat for rifle, maybe a lot of lead moving to the rear then getting peeled off. Attempts to size after first 'thin' coat did same - not completely covered? Resin wouldn't bond in those area for next coat. Maybe I can get to casting again in a couple weeks for more experiments, been real busy.

[robertbank]

Popper I am testing now to see if I can get decent results coating after sizing first. It may take a tad longer. I willpost my results here. If it works, and it may, you might be able to size your rifle first then coat. I will know later today.

Take Care

Bob

[Ausglock]

Popper I am testing now to see if I can get decent results coating after sizing first. It may take a tad longer. I willpost my results here. If it works, and it may, you might be able to size your rifle first then coat. I will know later today.

Take Care

Bob
Nope. It's a no go

Coating will not bond to sized bare lead.
But if you apply and bake 1 coat, then size, and some "bare lead" is visible, the second coat will actually bond to it. This is due in part to the first coat not being removed, but being burnished into the lead. This allows the second coat to bond to the invisible first coat.
I have done this about 6 times to test and it works.

Same as using the Aqualube 5000 sizing lube. If you apply it very sparingly and size the first coat, it will still allow the second coat to bond to the first coat.
This has been tested on different calibres and works.
It DOES NOT WORK with Hornady oneshot!!!!!!!! Ask me how I know......;-)

[robertbank]

If you coat the sized bullet then size them again would that get the coating to bond? Just asking because I have quite a number of sized bullets I would prefer to coat using Hi-Tek vs PCing them. If it won;t work then I will have no choice.

Bob

[robertbank]

Well let me say at the outset that my preference is to coat then size my bullets.

Unfortunately I do have a considerable stash of 9MM and 38spl bullets originally destined for powder coating. After speaking to Donnie at Bayou bullets who helped with my problems with my RB 38spl bullet - his suggestion to re-coat worked - I decided to see if my sized bullets could be salvaged for Hi-Tek.

Ok, I certainly do not have nor do I pretend to have the experience and knowledge of Ausglock and others from across the pond that have been doing this stuff for years. I simply don't but I do have a stubborn streak and decided to give my pre-sized bullets a try. I have now coated and cooked the test batch. I ran a previous .357 sized 9mm bullet thru my Doughty Enterprises excellent .356 push thru die. Resistance was felt as the bullet passed thru the die. Observation: the coating remained fixed to the bullet. I then took this bullet and another and ran an acetone cloth over the bullets and the coating remained firmly on the bullet. I then took the bullets and smashed them with a hammer flat and the coating remained intact.

Now I have not shot any of these and perhaps I will run into problems but at least from this test I believe my pre sized bullets should be good to go for Hi-Tek coating. If I have missed something or if there is a problem I likely am going to run into going forward I solicit any comments. Right now the test batch will remain outside covered to dry and I will give them a 2nd bake in the morning. Sometime next week they will be shot through a couple of my guns to see how they perform. I remain optimistic or at least hopeful.

Take Care

Bob

[Budzilla 19]

Robert, I'm with you about coat first and then size! I do my .30 caliber 200 grain RNFP with three coats,( love the gold powder), then size and gas check, no problems so far! Smash and wipe test good to go! So far I have nothing but good things to say about the Hi-Tek coating process! I have driven these boolits to 2500 fps out of a 30'06 with no leading!! The pistol boolits in 40 and 45 same process, same results, no leading! Pistol rounds are done in the green liquid. Did some 9 mm using the gold powder also no leading. Works for me.

[HI-TEK]

Robert, I'm with you about coat first and then size! I do my .30 caliber 200 grain RNFP with three coats,( love the gold powder), then size and gas check, no problems so far! Smash and wipe test good to go! So far I have nothing but good things to say about the Hi-Tek coating process! I have driven these boolits to 2500 fps out of a 30'06 with no leading!! The pistol boolits in 40 and 45 same process, same results, no leading! Pistol rounds are done in the green liquid. Did some 9 mm using the gold powder also no leading. Works for me.


Budzilla,
If you like the Gold, you will certainly like the Bronze 500. From all tests done locally, it seems a great product.
Donnie should have some in stock soon as shipment was due to dock in LA this week.
May be Ausglock can post some of his pictures on his tests.

[Gremlin460]

Dear Mad Commercial Chemist,
I am writing to you to let you know the Candy Apple Red I received from you works fine.
I also found it is happy with a in/out bake time of 9mins 30sec.

Thank you.
Annoymouse.

PS may you glass overfloweth with Kentucky.

[HI-TEK]

Dear Mad Commercial Chemist,
I am writing to you to let you know the Candy Apple Red I received from you works fine.
I also found it is happy with a in/out bake time of 9mins 30sec.

Thank you.
Annoymouse.

PS may you glass overfloweth with Kentucky.

Appreciate your feed back. Thanks much.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I used some red copper powder for the first time today. A buddy of mine made up a batch of it a month or so ago and dropped it by my shop.
I gave it a good shake and processed the boolits as i normally do. It had a goldfish hue to it because I used my gold coating tub with the red copper.
They passed the wipe and smash test but I noticed flecks of red dotted in the coating like glitter. It didn't seem to coat as evenly and consistently as my Liquid Gold.
it's not the best picture but i think you can see the red flecks.
any idea as to whats going on here?

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll105/MJSpangler/Casting/3FC35CB7-57E0-4DEB-95E9-33DD171FC436_zpsiqknogod.jpg (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/MJSpangler/media/Casting/3FC35CB7-57E0-4DEB-95E9-33DD171FC436_zpsiqknogod.jpg.html)

nice you can see my mokume game wedding band


Mr HI-TEK

any ideas on what happened here?

[robertbank]

I am not Joe but it looks to me like the mixture wasn't shaken enough and/or applied to thick.

Take Care

Bob

[Michael J. Spangler]

I'm sure I did enough shaking and I applied it very lightly. I have Had success with tens of thousands of boolits using the liquid gold. This is the powder version a buddy had purchased.
Really weird results.

[robertbank]

Pre-sized bullets

OK the sun came out from behind the clouds and dried the 2nd coat. After baking in the oven I took four of the bullets out at random and did the acetone and smash test on them and they passed fine.

I am going to load some of them up fpr tomorrows range session. I have to say I expect them to shoot just fine. I would not recomend pre-sizing the bullets before coating but it would seem I should be able to get the bullets I have that are sized to work with the Gold Hi-Tek product.

I suggested to some of the guys on canadianguntz forum they should try this method. Some of them are into PCing. I do believe the Hi-Tek product is just simpler and faster to do. Aside from the oven I don;t think I have spent $20.cdn on extra equipment. The syringes were around 87 cents a piece and the bottles around $3.00 at a hobby shop.

Joe you have a winner and a very satisfied customer here.

Take Care

Bob

[gunoil]

Looks tic, real tic! As they say in new york. Hitec is a stain.






Iam not charlie

[Gremlin460]

Don't forget to let the powder version stand after mixing, I prefer to mix the night before, this gives it plenty of time to fully dissolve into the suspension.

I am sure Trev or Joe will have a minimum time, not sure what it is, but over night works for me. Even a day or two before.

[Michael J. Spangler]

This stuff was mixed about a month in advance.

[popper]

budzilla - boolits to 2500 fps out of a 30'06 with no leading! What alloy are you using? I tried for 2400 fps with 308, accuracy wasn't there. H.T.'d was a tad better.

[robertbank]

My Husky 30-06 would shoot clover leafs at 100 yards at 1800 fps using the 311291 bullet. HIgher velocites just brought wider groups.

Take Care

Bob

[Balta]

Mixing some hitek powder to try to get color like FMJ...
geting litlle closer :)
For comparasion, there is one FMJ bullet at right side...i get litlle rough texture ,gonna try to shake bullets less next time
139186 139187

[robertbank]

If you reduce your cooking time or reduce the temperature bit you might find they come out more yellow gold, which is close to the FMJ colour you are looking for. I find the longer I bake the darker the bullets get. I also find sometimes the bullet in front of my oven are lighter than those nearer the back.

Take Care

Bob

[Ausglock]

I also find sometimes the bullet in front of my oven are lighter than those nearer the back.
Bob

This is why you take the tray out at the 1/2 way time. Shake it and turn it 90 degrees and re-insert it into the oven. colour is more uniform this way. These small ovens are not known for their even heating and air flow.

[robertbank]

This is why you take the tray out at the 1/2 way time. Shake it and turn it 90 degrees and re-insert it into the oven. colour is more uniform this way. These small ovens are not known for their even heating and air flow.

You can say that again and be right twice. You were also correct (I said I was stubborn), about trying to use Hi-Tek on a sixrd bullet. I have a 9MM barrel with some, not a lot of lead in it. Oh well I have bullets set aside for the winter PCing. No big deal. Weather here is quite warm today so after I plant a few carrots I will be back at the coating. I have lots of 9MM, 40 cal, 45acp,38sp, and 357mag to do.

Ausglock I will listen more attentively next time. The colour variations are not large and as long as they work I will leave well enough alone. I notice a lot of hear loss when you ope the door.

Take Care

Bob

[Gremlin460]

This stuff was mixed about a month in advance.

In that case Mike I got nothing.

[Michael J. Spangler]

In that case Mike I got nothing.


ahahaha!!! awesome.
yeah I think I'm going to buy some powder from the same supplier and try it myself. My buddy with the powder upped and moved to Idaho a couple weeks back so I can't do any further testing with his powder. The Shop that carries the stuff locally does have more from that same batch though.

[Ausglock]

ahahaha!!! awesome.
yeah I think I'm going to buy some powder from the same supplier and try it myself. My buddy with the powder upped and moved to Idaho a couple weeks back so I can't do any further testing with his powder. The Shop that carries the stuff locally does have more from that same batch though.
Everything that goes to the USA gets tested by me before it ships. There hasn't been any issues.
I'd really like to know when and where your mate got it from.
Was it red copper or gold that we are talking about? Liquid or powder??

[Michael J. Spangler]

Red copper powder. The local gun shop ordered it maybe 6 months ago I guess.
I'll try to swing by there tonight or thursday to buy another container. Are there any lot numbers associated with the packaging?

[HI-TEK]

Red copper powder. The local gun shop ordered it maybe 6 months ago I guess.
I'll try to swing by there tonight or thursday to buy another container. Are there any lot numbers associated with the packaging?

Just interested. Which gun shop sold you the product?
Also, where did they buy it in from? (Picture of pack will help)
There are quite a few that could on sell our powdered coatings.
If your coating ended up Gold after coating, you may have been sold the Gold Powder.
I cannot understand, how Red Copper would turn out so Golden.
Even if it is not mixed well when coating, there should be visible Red Glittery particles in the finished coating, and may be uneven and or blotchy.
However, your final coating seems simply Gold and without any Red particles.
Most peculiar.

[ioon44]

Red copper powder. The local gun shop ordered it maybe 6 months ago I guess.
I'll try to swing by there tonight or thursday to buy another container. Are there any lot numbers associated with the packaging?

I have some Red Copper Powder that the baked boolits looked like the ones in your pic.

I think what has happened with me is the solids in the mix settle so fast I if I don't keep shaking as I pour the mix it gets thinner, so by the end of the container I have had to add more powder.

I was using a 125/20 mix and the fresh mix works fine.

[Michael J. Spangler]

The product was purchased through shooting supply in Westport MA. I believe it was purchased through gateway.
I used the same coating tub that I always use for my liquid gold. Mao there was a lot of gold washed off the sides of the old tub during the process. I'll try to do another batch this weekend with a new clean tub to see the results. It just really seemed like the product wasn't dissolving at all. It seemed to settle out of suspension much faster that the gold does.
My SOP is to swirl the whole container of solution vigorously then either pour or dip a measure directly into the swirling solution as to get the best mix possible. Works beautifully for the gold mixture so far.

[HI-TEK]

The product was purchased through shooting supply in Westport MA. I believe it was purchased through gateway.
I used the same coating tub that I always use for my liquid gold. Mao there was a lot of gold washed off the sides of the old tub during the process. I'll try to do another batch this weekend with a new clean tub to see the results. It just really seemed like the product wasn't dissolving at all. It seemed to settle out of suspension much faster that the gold does.
My SOP is to swirl the whole container of solution vigorously then either pour or dip a measure directly into the swirling solution as to get the best mix possible. Works beautifully for the gold mixture so far.

It seems to me, that you may have a build up of Gold in your coating container, and, when introducing fresh solvent coating mix, simply re-dissolves the deposits in your container and then coats onto your projectiles.
Coupled with possibility that the Red Copper particles were not evenly suspended/mixed in your new mix, this would have also simply added more resin/solvent only to the Gold residues in your coating container, and which contributed/resulted in your more "golden" finish.

If you only use the liquid mix that is decanted slowly from some coloured mixtures, the baked Resin system will end up looking more "Golden", and transparent, as not all the ingredients are being applied during coating process.

Many simply use different containers for each colour, so they do not have cross colour contamination.
Mixing of colours should not be a problem, but you can end up with a colour that is different to what was required.

Some, simply use solvent only, and add new projectiles to be coated, to use up deposits in coating containers.
Some rinse/wash out coating containers, and re-cycle these wash solvent into next batch of coating being made up.
That way every bit of material is used up efficiently and no waste.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Thank you for the response joe. It still seems that the red should have dissolved better and left a golden red color. this seems to have left a golden color (understandably) with red flecks in it that look like big pieces of glitter or something.

[HI-TEK]

Thank you for the response joe. It still seems that the red should have dissolved better and left a golden red color. this seems to have left a golden color (understandably) with red flecks in it that look like big pieces of glitter or something.

Hi,
The suspended materials really do not "dissolve" as such and are supposedly stay a suspension of various materials.
The more diluted the mix, the lower the viscosity, and faster settling occurs.
Suspended materials have and serve several purposes being in the mix.
At minimum;
1. They assist with colour,
2. They add film strength.
3. Provide heat reflecting property.
4. Provide load/deformation carrying capability
5. Provide flexibility aid to film.

All plain colours coatings per say, generally provide all of these requirements, but addition of various suspended ingredients, are there, with intent to further enhance various aspects required.
Due to high demands in some ammo, depending on end use and engineering requirements, there are minor differences between the coatings, but difficult to quantify.

Some seem to work better with some guns and others seem not work as well.
These variations may be due to the various possibilities, of end use, application, methodology, baking/time, coating thickness, etc etc, it is almost impossible to compare directly one against another without doing the tests side by side by same person, with same end use, and doing very detailed measurements, and recording all results, to really get a true understanding of the results obtained.

We know from historical results, that even with not well mixed coatings, or uneven blotchy results, good results have been obtained.
I am confident, that with user realising basic things required to coat well, and end up producing good results, every one should be able to use whatever coating they choose.

[ioon44]

Well that gives me a better understanding of how the thinner mixes settle out faster, I was using thinner mixes to deal with the cold weather.

I had some liquid Black mixed 5-1-10 and applied 2 coats with both coats baked 12 min at 200deg C. I put two of these in a small jar of acetone to see if the thin coating would wipe off, after 3 days the coating will still pass the wipe test, so I guess the coating is not going to wipe off.


Thank you HI-TEK for all your help

[HI-TEK]

Well that gives me a better understanding of how the thinner mixes settle out faster, I was using thinner mixes to deal with the cold weather.

I had some liquid Black mixed 5-1-10 and applied 2 coats with both coats baked 12 min at 200deg C. I put two of these in a small jar of acetone to see if the thin coating would wipe off, after 3 days the coating will still pass the wipe test, so I guess the coating is not going to wipe off.


Thank you HI-TEK for all your help

Great results. You have done well.
Well cured coatings, dried well, and baked as you did, should pass all the tests easily, as you have discovered.
I am always happy to assist with various aspects, and hope that I supply sufficient information for people to successfully use coatings without waste and minimum fuss.
Happy coating to all.

[Budzilla 19]

Popper, kind of a home brewed alloy, used lyman # 2 proportions here is how it came out! Pb,85.38,Sb,2.51,SN,6.87,Zn,2.67,cu,2.57, three coats hi Tek green liquid, sized to .309",gas checked, CCI 200 primer, 58 grns H4831, these are stiff loads for sure!

[robertbank]

My green came out dark green trending towards brown. Look good though. We shall see how they shoot.

Bob

[HI-TEK]

My green came out dark green trending towards brown. Look good though. We shall see how they shoot.

Bob

That colour change is quite normal.
Local manufacturer, recently did some trials, by cooking the same Dark Green coating (same as supplied to US) for 3 weeks at 200C, 8 hour days, 5 day week, and after that time, they took out the trial samples.
The coating was very dark, approaching Black, but smash test and shooting was perfect.
The guy who loaded & tested it said that it was best coated bullets he has used.
Accuracy was great, and no Leading and no residues inside barrel.
Final colour was not important to his tests.
We have never had such a test done previously, and was totally surprising with great results, after such heat abuse of coating.
I never expected such results, and had encouraged some local folk to do more independent tests and examine the results.
I expect darkening of all coatings with extra bake times, but cannot predict final results.
Curious people can advise if they do any such tests.

[robertbank]

No worries Joe. My cardboard targets will never know the difference. I have about 4K of bullets split between 38spl and 9MM ready to go down range.

Take Care

Bob

[ioon44]

I have been doing the Candy Apple Red powder and baking it for 12 min at 205deg C for both coats. The final color is a maroon which looks nice and performs well in several different guns.

I may try some extended baking times to see what happens.

[robertbank]

One of the challenges I have run into is keeping the temperature up while switching trays in the small convection oven. Does it hurt to put the bullets in when the temperature is below 400F or 200C and leaving them in until it reaches the required temperature then marking 10 minutes?

Take Care

Bob

[HI-TEK]

One of the challenges I have run into is keeping the temperature up while switching trays in the small convection oven. Does it hurt to put the bullets in when the temperature is below 400F or 200C and leaving them in until it reaches the required temperature then marking 10 minutes?

Take Care

Bob

Hi Bob

Losing temperatures is not a problem between batches.
Most important thing is, that first coat is thoroughly dry first before baking.
Many, simply place on top of oven, with a metal spacers, (Egg rings or Pipe off-cuts) next tray to be baked.
With air gap, and warm air, rising/radiating from oven, helps with warming & drying of next tray, and then when placing these pre-warmed dried tray into oven, you may already have them at 30-40C which is not a problem..
You in fact with such pre-warming, helps your oven to get back to cure temperatures which start to begin around 180C.
After tray in oven is reaching 180C, cure/hardening should be approaching to be finished in about 3-4 minutes thereafter.
If your oven is at 200-210C that cure hardening may be reduced to 2-3 minutes to be complete enough to pass tests.
I suppose, it must be taken into consideration just how much metal you place inside oven, and how good is internal heat fan circulation is.
I cannot stress enough, that a mini cyclone air circulation inside oven is best, for quicker heat transfer, quicker baking, and more even cook across the tray, with no hot spots and no over heated darkened areas and more efficient use of heat produced in oven..
Other ovens are also OK, but require more work & attention to operator and results can vary more with caliber changes.
Many simply take out tray at half way point roughly, and quickly shake things around, to move open areas around coated alloy, and return tray at right angles to previously located and finish cook.
Really, it is probably ends up with the operator and adapted equipment used, to find optimum or ideal conditions for the set up.

Just another suggestion, is that if you can insulate the walls of your oven, especially in cold areas, by placing Rock wool liner, or thin fire-brick slices, cut to shape, and placed against internal walls, will reduce heat losses greatly through the walls and help ovens recover much quicker.

The coating is not that fussy, as long as it is well dried first before baking, and most importantly, two thin coats, baked well, should work with most applications, and applying thick coats is really not necessary, OOOOPS did I just recommend using less????..lol...lol.

[Gremlin460]

I am sorry but I have to ask, why on earth would you want to prolong the baking times of the coating?

One of the attractive attributes for me at least it the speed of the system to a final reliable end product.
If the Complex coating "cures" in a 6 minute window, what is the advantage of heat treating longer?

I personally fail to see the sense in this, unless there is some hidden advantage I am not aware of?

Heat treating for longer will make it darker, same with anything you toss into an oven.

Does the coating set "harder" does baking longer make it brittle?
I can see some people thinking it strange reading that a set time of 10-12 minutes is fine, but hey leave it in for a few hours if you want too!!
If there is no performance gain by prolonged heating, then I fail to see the relevance of doing so. Unless you like boiling water for your coffee for a hour or so, just to make sure its hot.

[ioon44]

I have a layer of fire bricks on the bottom rack of my convection oven this helps with heat loss when changing trays, I have not seen the temp drop below 375deg F and recovers to 400dg F in about 2 minutes.
I just bake for 12 minutes as Ausglock recommended, darker color doesn't matter to me.

[robertbank]

Joe thank you for the fast reply. All good to hear. I am ok as I put the first and then all "next" trays on top of the oven and wait for the oven to reach 200C before starting with the first tray. Crazy to think I managed to do it right the first time.:D My last chemistry and physics class was 51 years ago.
Jeez man what time is it on your side of the Pacific. Seven in the morning here and on my 2nd cup of coffee.

I have a small convection oven and will try the fire brick routine to help with the heat loss. Biggest problem I have is keep up with the casting to keep the feed stock on line. Gotta teach "she who knows best" how to cast. Now that will go over well!

All the best

Bob

[robertbank]

I am sorry but I have to ask, why on earth would you want to prolong the baking times of the coating?

One of the attractive attributes for me at least it the speed of the system to a final reliable end product.
If the Complex coating "cures" in a 6 minute window, what is the advantage of heat treating longer?

I personally fail to see the sense in this, unless there is some hidden advantage I am not aware of?

Heat treating for longer will make it darker, same with anything you toss into an oven.

Does the coating set "harder" does baking longer make it brittle?
I can see some people thinking it strange reading that a set time of 10-12 minutes is fine, but hey leave it in for a few hours if you want too!!
If there is no performance gain by prolonged heating, then I fail to see the relevance of doing so. Unless you like boiling water for your coffee for a hour or so, just to make sure its hot.

For me it is being a novice at this I want to ensure I get bullets that are cooked enough. I read where 10 minutes is required so I overcook to "make sure" they are done. I may reduce cooking time as I gain experience but tossing 1K bullets because I didn't leave them in long enough is not something I want to deal with.

Take Care

Bob

[HI-TEK]

I am sorry but I have to ask, why on earth would you want to prolong the baking times of the coating?

One of the attractive attributes for me at least it the speed of the system to a final reliable end product.
If the Complex coating "cures" in a 6 minute window, what is the advantage of heat treating longer?

I personally fail to see the sense in this, unless there is some hidden advantage I am not aware of?

Heat treating for longer will make it darker, same with anything you toss into an oven.

Does the coating set "harder" does baking longer make it brittle?
I can see some people thinking it strange reading that a set time of 10-12 minutes is fine, but hey leave it in for a few hours if you want too!!
If there is no performance gain by prolonged heating, then I fail to see the relevance of doing so. Unless you like boiling water for your coffee for a hour or so, just to make sure its hot.

Grem
Many good points.
I am going back to historical events where we had to determine parameters for commercial casting efficiency reasons.
We settled at oven temperatures set between 180C to 220C.
What was different with all, is retention time inside oven, with each production & oven type and was based on throughput, load in oven, & ovens capability to cope with and maintain heat input.
Fast production rate/output, was prime objective for commercial casters at minimum heating costs.
Without going to very huge oven costs, most enjoyed modifying what was available to suit needs.
In terms of extended baking, what has raised its ugly head was that some in the beginning, under cooked the coating, and then complained about "smell" when shooting.
Only recently, curious people simply wanted to find out effects of over baking for long periods.
What was done, on a couple of coatings, seem to have demonstrated, that extra cooking aside from colour darkening, did not affect coating negatively.
What is obviously possible, that pushing the extra time in oven period, should drive cross linking/hardening to maximum, and may also liberate any volatile odorous residues and increase hardness. But by how much may be difficult to determine.
Simply put, now, it is independently confirmed, that over cooking seems not reduce coating performance efficiency.
To achieve success, baking time and conditions do require time, but that time will depend on oven used, and metal loads being baked.
That is why, baking times are only "suggested times" to achieve success, and each user needs to determine optimum conditions suitable for individual set ups and production rates required.

[HI-TEK]

Jeez man what time is it on your side of the Pacific. Seven in the morning here and on my 2nd cup of coffee.

I have a small convection oven and will try the fire brick routine to help with the heat loss. Biggest problem I have is keep up with the casting to keep the feed stock on line. Gotta teach "she who knows best" how to cast. Now that will go over well!

All the best

Bob

I am up very late most nights, It is 12.30am here.
I communicate with people all around the world and require my night owl habits which is now the norm.
It is humorous, when I get comments such as yours, it seems the coating makes users "slaves" to make more casts just to keep up.
Your idea is Great, to get better half to get motivated.
I wish you good luck with that. I have been trying for many years to get that help, but alas, no success... Cant say I did not try.
Here, and may be elsewhere, many just cast until they cant get any more alloy, then coat all in a very short time.
Commercial guys, cast for a week, 100-200 thousand, then coat it with one coat in one day, and second coat next day.
They coat about 1000 every 2-3 minutes, some do it faster.
Here, with small market, the demand is relentless. I am a happy all is going well.

[Shotgundrums]

Joe, are there any motions to produce a thermoset or air-curing coating?

[Ausglock]

So many new users trying to re-invent the wheel.

Robabank.. it is not rocket science. if I can do it, anyone can. Stop over thinking the "oven heat loss" thing.
baking time is king for commercial producers. less is more throughput.
Joe doesn't sleep. he hibernates.

[robertbank]

So many new users trying to re-invent the wheel.

Robabank.. it is not rocket science. if I can do it, anyone can. Stop over thinking the "oven heat loss" thing.
baking time is king for commercial producers. less is more throughput.
Joe doesn't sleep. he hibernates.

You been at the Foster's agaun? No one is over thinking anything. Coming off of dealing with powder coating not curing I am a tad sensitive to having to redo or melt 1K bullets due to the coat not adhering to the bullet. The question was simple and it was answered. The small convection ovens lose a lot of heat when that door opens and they take time ti get to temperature again as I have found out.

Take Care

Bob

[HI-TEK]

Well,
I got some update news about product shipment at LA. It seems, that due to union and management arguments, shipping delays are about 4 weeks behind. Goods are there, arrived on the 9th, but may be in warehouses with go slow workforce.
Many ships are also not unloaded, due to back up.
It reminds me of similar union problems here years ago.
Most sad, and it does damage confidence & finances with suppliers and shippers and re-sellers in US who are desperately waiting for stock arrivals..

[popper]

Revisited my targets with the gold, AC 170gr GC 308W carbine, 100 yds. Not really too bad, worth a re-try. Only had 5 rnds, 5th was off the right. Mix was first try with the gold, 3 coats and they were gold, not reddish brown. Plugs and muffs helped with the flinch, haven't shot this rifle for a while. Guy with the 338 Laupa & brake next to me did wait on shots. Got a scope for the 24" upper to try. Yea, wondered when they'd get the LA port back up to speed.
139557

[robertbank]

Popper good to hear. I am about to move over to my Longbranch and Marlin to see how they group.


Take care

Bob

[Avenger442]

Revisited my targets with the gold, AC 170gr GC 308W carbine, 100 yds. Not really too bad, worth a re-try. Only had 5 rnds, 5th was off the right. Mix was first try with the gold, 3 coats and they were gold, now reddish brown. Plugs and muffs helped with the flinch, haven't shot this rifle for a while. Guy with the 338 Laupa & brake next to me did wait on shots. Got a scope for the 24" upper to try. Yea, wondered when they'd get the LA port back up to speed.
139557

Looks good to me. Good enough for hunting in this neck of the woods. I had the .223 and the .308 out at the range about a month ago. I definitely flinch more with the .308. Even plugs and muffs don't help. The .44 mag rifle makes my shoulder hurt after about 15 rounds so I always feel that shot before I squeeze the trigger. Anticipation is a wonderful thing; sometimes. My best with the .308 with the Gold 1035 liquid Hi-tek off of a lead sled was 1 1/2". Sled helps my poor marksmanship tremendously.

Have a cold this week but going back to loading the .223 with the Lee Bator bullet coated in the Gold with reduced loads of H4895 to see if groups improve. Also want to go back to .308 with the Lee DC TL312-160-2R bullet coated in Gold. I haven't shot this bullet yet but expecting it to be a little better.

May make it to the range next month. Federal jury duty next two weeks.

[popper]

Just trying the HiTek coated in the 308 AR. I normally get 1 1/2MOA with heat treated PC'd. That load should be around 2400 fps, wasn't expecting good results so I may have mentally messed up. The rifle upper is ~ 3# heavier so may help my shooting. I'll load some with 40 gr H4895 (slower) and see how it does. Loaded some PC'd to 42 gr. H4895 to test & chrony from the rifle upper. Should be >2600 fps. Cooked some straight Isocore with Cu today, hopefully to cast next week with all this rain. Tried pushing the PB 140 past 1800 (110) with diluted Isocore, poor results. Alloy still matters.

[Avenger442]

Popper
I don't see us getting around the "right alloy" with the Hi-Tek. And from what I have read the PCing will also require the right alloy. Wish I could shoot some of the soft stuff. Have about a hundred pounds of it from stick on WW and lead flashing. But only a jacket will let me do that at the pressure I need to make rifle effective. That being said, I think Hi-Tek has allowed me to use higher pressure with softer alloy than I could without it. My opinion no test to see.

Here is my best group with the .308 Remington bolt gun. Off the sled of course.

[Shotgundrums]

Popper
I don't see us getting around the "right alloy" with the Hi-Tek. And from what I have read the PCing will also require the right alloy. Wish I could shoot some of the soft stuff. Have about a hundred pounds of it from stick on WW and lead flashing. But only a jacket will let me do that at the pressure I need to make rifle effective. That being said, I think Hi-Tek has allowed me to use higher pressure with softer alloy than I could without it. My opinion no test to see.

Here is my best group with the .308 Remington bolt gun. Off the sled of course.
139586
I'll say, that's an exceptional grouping for cast pills. Some time ago, I read that temperature control at the mold proves to be critical to cast bullet weight and shape consistency needed for rifle performance. Some are inserting thermocouples into their molds.

[220]

Popper
I don't see us getting around the "right alloy" with the Hi-Tek. And from what I have read the PCing will also require the right alloy.

I think your right, you still need to match your alloy although it does seem to give you a little more room.
Some groups with my sons 375H&H cant get past 1700fps with this alloy before they start to open but in the window it shoots well.
Havent even looked at bedding on it, bit of a play might eliminate the flyer, then again it might just be the shooter 375H&H does take a little concentration to shoot well off the bench

139592

[Avenger442]

Never shot one but always wanted a 375 H&H or Ruger. Safari gun, solid bullets.... Can imagine that it would be one with a low shot count at the range. Right shoulder has slight case of arthritis. Just can't justify the cost. Here in the States my 30-06 will kill anything I can hunt.

Your shooting Hi-Tek bullets through it? What alloy?

[Avenger442]

I'll say, that's an exceptional grouping for cast pills. Some time ago, I read that temperature control at the mold proves to be critical to cast bullet weight and shape consistency needed for rifle performance. Some are inserting thermocouples into their molds.

Probably not as good as you are thinking. That was at 50 yards.

Here is my best at 100 yards.



Wasn't happy with the bullet drop so still working on loads. But 1" groups look possible at 100 yards. Last try with H4895 was close to max loads and was spread with best group 3" at 100 yards but shots were much flatter. Going to drop loads with it and try again. Also changing bullet shape and powder. One change at a time until I get what I want. I hunt deer and was planning to start using Hi-Tek bullets. May try hollow pointed .308.

Has anyone used the Forester hollow pointing bits?

[220]

2:2:96 Noe 275gr HP, 100y so more than happy with the accuracy but would like to get it to around 2000fps. At that velocity we can sight it so you are only looking at around 5" drop at 200y and still be hitting with 1500ft/lbs energy.
The cast reloads are quite pleasant to shoot, about the same as a 308 but the factory and full power Loads let you know you have pulled the trigger, 15-20 shots is enough for me off the bench.

Rifle is a cheap Zastava out of the box.

[Shotgundrums]

Probably not as good as you are thinking. That was at 50 yards.

Here is my best at 100 yards.

139594

Wasn't happy with the bullet drop so still working on loads. But 1" groups look possible at 100 yards. Last try with H4895 was close to max loads and was spread with best group 3" at 100 yards but shots were much flatter. Going to drop loads with it and try again. Also changing bullet shape and powder. One change at a time until I get what I want. I hunt deer and was planning to start using Hi-Tek bullets. May try hollow pointed .308.

Has anyone used the Forester hollow pointing bits?
maybe a grooveless bullet?

[robertbank]

My best three shot group with my Huzquavarna (sp) was .483" Lyman 311291 20 gr 2400 30-06 at 100 yards. Son has the gun now. It is a shooter. I'll try to post pictures of the target over the week-end.

Bob

[Avenger442]

maybe a grooveless bullet?



Bullet on the left. It is a little heavier and more pointed than what I have been shooting. The two on the right with gas checks added are what I shot the group with.

Wish I could go grooveless but spend too much on guns to buy a $100 mold.

[Gremlin460]

Checked the Barrel today after 240 rounds of C.A.R yesterday, I have leading for the first time. So these will recycle back through the oven to see if the cure time was a bit short.
That's a shame as I liked the bright red colour, so it will now be more of a maroon colour.

[Shotgundrums]

Those will be maroon if completely reheating them. But, I'd bet if you started fresh with that red they won't be as dark...granted your ovens heating hasn't been varied anomalously.

[Ausglock]

Checked the Barrel today after 240 rounds of C.A.R yesterday, I have leading for the first time. So these will recycle back through the oven to see if the cure time was a bit short.
That's a shame as I liked the bright red colour, so it will now be more of a maroon colour.
Was this the powder?
It needs the full 12 minutes at 200deg C to cure.
You can add another 5mls of Liquid catalyst to your mix to try the shorter time. No Garantees.

[Gremlin460]

Was this the powder?
It needs the full 12 minutes at 200deg C to cure.
You can add another 5mls of Liquid catalyst to your mix to try the shorter time. No Garantees.

Yup trev, first run with the powder.. Got a feeling that this particular mix needed longer, passed S&W tests but I could Just scratch some with finger nail.
So I only did 1 K until they were tested, will give em another run through the hot box and see what happens, if not , I will cycle through the pot.

No Harm done..

[HI-TEK]

Checked the Barrel today after 240 rounds of C.A.R yesterday, I have leading for the first time. So these will recycle back through the oven to see if the cure time was a bit short.
That's a shame as I liked the bright red colour, so it will now be more of a maroon colour.

If you have Red 254 this is final colour and results.http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a239/jandmspecializedproductsHi-Tek/Red.254.US.Powdered%20April%2015_zpsoczqpyoi.jpg

[kryogen]

My powder doesnt cure fully unless I cook it a full 12 minutes at 200, after the oven is back to 200. (takes maybe 1-2 minutes.) So that's approx 14 minutes for me. Works fine.

[zomby woof]

If you have Red 254 this is final colour and results.http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a239/jandmspecializedproductsHi-Tek/Red.254.US.Powdered%20April%2015_zpsoczqpyoi.jpg

Is red 254 the Brick Red Bayou sells? It looks like the same color. I'm going for 12 minutes at 400F, with heated boolits.

[HI-TEK]

Is red 254 the Brick Red Bayou sells? It looks like the same color. I'm going for 12 minutes at 400F, with heated boolits.


The Red colours seem to all require the additional couple of minutes in oven.

There are 3 Red colours, Red 2F2RK, Red 254 and Red 122.
The Red 254 looks like Brick Red, whilst 2F2RK is more pink/orange type red, (the infamous Red), and the 122 is more approaching the Crimson Red.

If over cooked, they will all darken somewhat, but I have no over baked pictures of colours, after over baking at various extra times.

[HI-TEK]

Yup trev, first run with the powder.. Got a feeling that this particular mix needed longer, passed S&W tests but I could Just scratch some with finger nail.
So I only did 1 K until they were tested, will give em another run through the hot box and see what happens, if not , I will cycle through the pot.

No Harm done..

Grem
How did you go with extra cook?

[ioon44]

The Red colours seem to all require the additional couple of minutes in oven.

There are 3 Red colours, Red 2F2RK, Red 254 and Red 122.
The Red 254 looks like Brick Red, whilst 2F2RK is more pink/orange type red, (the infamous Red), and the 122 is more approaching the Crimson Red.

If over cooked, they will all darken somewhat, but I have no over baked pictures of colours, after over baking at various extra times.

Which one of these is called Candy Apple Red powder?
I have been using two coats of this mixed at 125/20, baking 12 min at 205deg C and it comes out a maroon color which looks good. Passes the smash & wipe test fine and no leading or problems with any of the guns it is used in.

[HI-TEK]

Which one of these is called Candy Apple Red powder?
I have been using two coats of this mixed at 125/20, baking 12 min at 205deg C and it comes out a maroon color which looks good. Passes the smash & wipe test fine and no leading or problems with any of the guns it is used in.

The Candy Apple red contains Golden particles. It can be compared to Red 122 but not same colour, and was developed to try and assist with heat reflecting and load carrying capacity.
The results were subtle but noticeable.

[robertbank]

Hi-Tek - One thing that would speed up my production would be to cook two trays at the same time. My small convection oven loses a lot of heat each time the door is opened. My question is, if I wait until the temp gets to 400F, insert one tray and close the door, open and insert a 2nd tray, with the resultant loss of heat - at this point I am likely at 300F. I can reset my oven and allow the heat to climb back to 400F then mark the time of 10 minutes to cook. Will leaving the bullets is the oven while the temperature reaches 400F affect the curing process negatively?

If it doesn't I should be able to reduce the amount of time it takes to process a load of bullets by doubling the amount of bullets cooked in any 10 minute cycle in the oven.

Take Care

​Bob

[Gremlin460]

Grem
How did you go with extra cook?

It rained today so did not get a chance, plus I have to finish building another 6 AS/2 Sizers by the weeks end.

If it stops raining I will do the re-bake, the question is do I do a full 12 min run now or a shorter run, to "finish" the coating off?

[fredj338]

I think your right, you still need to match your alloy although it does seem to give you a little more room.
Some groups with my sons 375H&H cant get past 1700fps with this alloy before they start to open but in the window it shoots well.
Havent even looked at bedding on it, bit of a play might eliminate the flyer, then again it might just be the shooter 375H&H does take a little concentration to shoot well off the bench

139592

Well not at 1700fps.;-) Seriously, thanks for sharing the info. I am hoping to get the hi-tek to run my 6.8 up around 2000fps. I plan on using water dropped ww & then 3 coats of hi-tek.

[Shotgundrums]

It rained today so did not get a chance, plus I have to finish building another 6 AS/2 Sizers by the weeks end.

If it stops raining I will do the re-bake, the question is do I do a full 12 min run now or a shorter run, to "finish" the coating off?
This would be left to your own experimentation with your oven. Everyone's ovens are going to be different in this area. Wattage, air circulation, capacity etc are all going to play with the margins. It's been said that once alloy gets to temp, the coating then only takes a short period to begin crosslinking. I'd start with a full bake. OR, you can check bullets at certain points throughout.
cheers

[popper]

water dropped ww & then 3 coats of hi-tek Interesting experiment. I tried ACWW with 3x gold in 308W pushed pretty hard. Got some leading from stripping i think. My SWAG is the alloy will soften after 3 baking passes.

[Avenger442]

Well not at 1700fps.;-) Seriously, thanks for sharing the info. I am hoping to get the hi-tek to run my 6.8 up around 2000fps. I plan on using water dropped ww & then 3 coats of hi-tek.

Not wishing to hi-jack the thread about another subject or start a long winded discussion but actually this is more of a pressure related than fps item. Comparing the pressure that a 375 H&H produces at 1700 versus a 6.8 at 2000 is not apples to apples. The actual working pressure to get the 6.8 to 2000 is a little lower than the 375 H&H at 1700. To quote one of the loading manuals "The only important attribute we need to know about our cast bullets is the maximum pressure they will tolerate." And that can be determined with BHN. Hope I didn't misunderstand what you were trying to say

I believe you can get your 6.8 lead to work at what ever pressure it will run at with any other coating/lubricating system with the Hi-Tek. Would have to exclude jacketed from that since it is not the lead taking the pressure.

As popper noted baking bullets at 390 F will take the BHN down to the hardness it would have been had you just air cooled. Maybe a little harder if you water drop after last bake. My test have shown very little gain with even that but I continue to do it??

[HI-TEK]

Hi-Tek - One thing that would speed up my production would be to cook two trays at the same time. My small convection oven loses a lot of heat each time the door is opened. My question is, if I wait until the temp gets to 400F, insert one tray and close the door, open and insert a 2nd tray, with the resultant loss of heat - at this point I am likely at 300F. I can reset my oven and allow the heat to climb back to 400F then mark the time of 10 minutes to cook. Will leaving the bullets is the oven while the temperature reaches 400F affect the curing process negatively?

If it doesn't I should be able to reduce the amount of time it takes to process a load of bullets by doubling the amount of bullets cooked in any 10 minute cycle in the oven.

Take Care

​Bob

Hi Bob,
Most heat is lost with hot air escaping when door is open and oven walls cooling as well..
But, looking at toaster ovens, the walls are not insulated. Heat recovery inside oven is quick, but heat losses are in majority through the steel walls of oven which do nothing but warm air outside oven.
The lack of internal fan, slows down heating of internal air.
This leads to slower heat recovery, and if element is adequate to heat to 400F, the internal rise rate in temperature will greatly depend on how quickly you can move air around heating element to transfer heat generated into oven space and product.
My concern with trying to cook too much at one time in such non air circulated oven is, that you will get problems with uneven baking due to poor heat circulation around each tray/projectiles.
Cooking longer is not a problem, aside from colour darkening.
My initial suggestion is, to line internal walls with thin layer of fire bricks, to minimise heat losses through walls.
Once bricks get hot during bake they should stay hot for quite a while, and also stop large amounts of heat being lost through walls, and this should allow faster heat recovery after opening doors.
Adding a fan, would make it much, much better, and then you would get much faster production and more even bake and faster heat recovery and faster heat transfer.
The actual cooking time, really depends on just how fast you can get coated alloy load in oven up to curing conditions which gets going about 150C and really gets going at about 180C onwards.
As I have described previously, air is a very poor conductor of heat. The faster you can circulate air inside a closed system, governs just how fast heat carried by air will be transferred to each surface.
That is why I always suggest a mini cyclone is best inside an oven. The faster air is moved, the better and faster is heat transfer from element to product.
But always remember, that air cannot circulate through densely packed, over loaded areas, you do need open spaces for air to move around.
Hope this helps

[popper]

Out of curiosity I weighed a bunch of 140 gr. 30 cal 3x gold coated -144gr. Spread was the same as uncoated,+\- 0.3 gr.

[robertbank]

Hi-tek thank you for the reply. My oven is a small convection oven. It takes about 10 minutes to recover to 400F after the door is open to remove cooked bullets. I have decided to error on the conservative side and tend towards over cooking. I really don't care about the colour so much as I just want them to perform well. To date they do. I am very pleased with the results so far. What I do is to reset the oven after inserting a new tray. The bullets get approx. 10 minutes of heat rising to 400F and then 10 minutes of 400F. Yes the bullets go from Gold to Brown but they are cooked and do work. I have done approx. 2K so far. I am going to do some more testing with my handguns before moving on to rifle bullets.

One question: I noticed after one coating, when I resized a load of 38spl RN a few of the bullets hand the coating come off. I assume they were oversize. The bullets were coated a 2nd time. Do I have the potential for the coating to fail on those bullets or should I be good to go. The 2nd coating thoroughly covered the bullets. I ask because I know the coating doesn;t take when you use sized bullets.

Take Care

Bob

[ioon44]

Bob
I'm not an expert but what I have done with some boolits that had some fins at the mold line was to size after the first coat and then apply the second coat, both coats passed the smash test and shoot with out any leading. This was a 9mm 125gr RN from a Magma Mold which has had the lube ring removed and now weighs 128gr.

[robertbank]

Bob
I'm not an expert but what I have done with some boolits that had some fins at the mold line was to size after the first coat and then apply the second coat, both coats passed the smash test and shoot with out any leading. This was a 9mm 125gr RN from a Magma Mold which has had the lube ring removed and now weighs 128gr.

Thanks good to know. I will post after I have shot some of the bullets as to whether or not I experience any leading. With PC bullets I get paint in the grooves with 9MM bullets but no leading per se. The 38spl has been squeaky clean with PC bullets and Hi-Tek so far.

Bob

[Avenger442]

Out of curiosity I weighed a bunch of 140 gr. 30 cal 3x gold coated -144gr. Spread was the same as uncoated,+\- 0.3 gr.


So the weight of the coating should not significantly affect the impact point of the bullet. Right?

[Ausglock]

One question: I noticed after one coating, when I resized a load of 38spl RN a few of the bullets hand the coating come off. I assume they were oversize. The bullets were coated a 2nd time. Do I have the potential for the coating to fail on those bullets or should I be good to go. The 2nd coating thoroughly covered the bullets. I ask because I know the coating doesn;t take when you use sized bullets.

Take Care

Bob

Robabank.
Read my previous post about sizing after the first coat.
The answers are all there.

The required knowledge base for questions about coating are all here, locked in the many posts.
Try the search function.

[robertbank]

Ausglock I did size after the first coating. Some of the coating came off with the sizing. The 2nd coat was applied. If coating comes off if you size first due to the metal being smoothed by the sizing will the 2nd coat just come off with bullets that lost the initial coating when sized? If it will then coating bullets the 2nd time is just a waste of time. If the search function worked better I would but it doesn't.

Edit: I search buttoned it by scrolling back:

"Coating will not bond to sized bare lead.
But if you apply and bake 1 coat, then size, and some "bare lead" is visible, the second coat will actually bond to it. This is due in part to the first coat not being removed, but being burnished into the lead. This allows the second coat to bond to the invisible first coat.
I have done this about 6 times to test and it works."

Take Care

Bob

[kryogen]

I cant wait to try this when I get some time.
Wife giving birth to our first baby tomorrow, she's at the hospital right now. Going there ;)

[Shotgundrums]

I cant wait to try this when I get some time.
Wife giving birth to our first baby tomorrow, she's at the hospital right now. Going there ;)
Congratulations!!

[popper]

Congrats. Boy or girl?
So the weight of the coating should not significantly affect the impact point of the bullet. Many have thought coating would decrease accuracy do to weight/thickness/unevenness of coating. It ups the boolit weight so the charge may be different but so does filling the lube groove.

[robertbank]

Popper much to do about nothing. There are bigger variables than coating when it comes to accuracy. Egos aside it is mostly the shooter IMHO.

Take Care

Bob

[Gremlin460]

Update:

Re-cooking the pills for 8.00 neat returns an fingernail resistant finish they did not have before.
Although they passed the smash and wipe test, they failed the finger nail scratch test before.

Now they pass with flying colours! (you see what I did there?).

They did darken a fraction, but still maintain a beautiful gloss and sparkle that Candy Apple red has.

Hats off to Trev, he picked it, Powder version need a little longer than the liquid version. Around 3-4 mins I would say.

I used 9.30 for liquid, so 12-13 mins is the sweet spot for my oven and set-up.

Mike.

[HI-TEK]

Update:

Re-cooking the pills for 8.00 neat returns an fingernail resistant finish they did not have before.
Although they passed the smash and wipe test, they failed the finger nail scratch test before.

Now they pass with flying colours! (you see what I did there?).

They did darken a fraction, but still maintain a beautiful gloss and sparkle that Candy Apple red has.

Hats off to Trev, he picked it, Powder version need a little longer than the liquid version. Around 3-4 mins I would say.

I used 9.30 for liquid, so 12-13 mins is the sweet spot for my oven and set-up.

Mike.
Hi Grem
Thanks for update.
I know Trev is a guru at this now, as he has "mastered" the processes, due to his testing regime on hundreds of coating materials, and his robot like reproduction of testing, when products were first made, and, required such testing.

Previously, we have also had similar results with longer cooking times being required, for all the Red types, both liquid and Powder. This was advised to users when opportunity arose, and it was also reported, that extra heat, did not seem to be detrimental to finished coating aside from possible colour change.
Several things to remember with all the coatings,
1. They are an excellent heat repelling barrier.
So, referring to re-cooking,
when re-cooking after two previous coats have been cooked,
with any extra coats, and with two previously applied coats, it does take progressively longer for heat to travel through previously baked coatings to get into alloy, to get to the temperatures required for coating and alloy to be the same.
The coating now being the "barrier", therefore cops the heat more, as heat is trying to get through to colder alloy, so more colour change of coating is expected.
2. If you had cooked the first two coatings, for about 2-3 minutes more in the beginning, the overall time would have been about 12-13 minutes to get good results, and, the colour may not have darkened as much as having to re-cook previously cooked coatings for another 8 minutes.
3. Powders are exactly the same materials, but without being in solvent system.
Each time you make up coating mixture from powder, every thing is in the product to work as solvent systems.
With liquids, you have to add the solvent & part two, before use, and this mixture should work same as product made from powder.
A well prepared well dried and baked coating, should all exhibit reasonably good gloss and hardness, and strong bonding.
It now seems, that you are well onto it, and I am glad you have good results.
Keep up the good work.
I would appreciate your results after shooting these.

[Gremlin460]

Will let you know tomorrow afternoon Joe, I just loaded 250 for tomorrow. If these work as I think they will, shall move on to the other colours and test them out as well.

My biggest headache coming up is that I am on my last jug of AP50N and ADI are not making it anymore. So that means finding a good pistol powder and doing the whole slew of testing to see what my guns like as far as grain count and OAL.

Unless you could ADD the powder into the coating, so all we gotta do is load em!! :kidding:

[HI-TEK]

Unless you could ADD the powder into the coating, so all we gotta do is load em!! :kidding:[/QUOTE]


Grem, that would be a hoot.
Self propelling coating, I would corner the world market, over night.
I wonder how such a product it would react with cooking heat, my guess is, like mini explosives, may be??? lol lol.
If you PM Ausglock, or a re-loader, they may be able to advise on a product and or supplier/s that may be suitable for your needs.
I am not in that area of supply expertise as I have no such needs, so sorry, I cant help.

[Ausglock]

AP-50.... I should be right for awhile. Got 8Kg of it. Also 6KG of AP-70.
The Belmont Q store has AP-50.

[robertbank]

You mention high gloss. I did up about 500 bullets using the green on 200 gr bullets meant for the 45acp. After two coatings and cookings they are a very glossy brown colour....very pleased. I intend to use them in my 45 Colt as I sized them .452. I'll post pictures of the targets over the week-end and bullets.

Take Care

Bob

[Avenger442]

Popper much to do about nothing. There are bigger variables than coating when it comes to accuracy. Egos aside it is mostly the shooter IMHO.

Take Care

Bob

Yea, when I fix the shooter a lot of my 2" groups will be 1"

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Hello all,
Just a quick note that I am due to receive my latest shipment of Hi-Tek. It seems it finally got released and is due to arrive at my shop Wednesday next week.
For those interested I will have the new Bronze and the Gun Metal Blue powders in stock and the solvent based Dark Green built with with the latest generation resin as well.
Thanks
Donnie

[Avenger442]

Hello all,
Just a quick note that I am due to receive my latest shipment of Hi-Tek. It seems it finally got released and is due to arrive at my shop Wednesday next week.
For those interested I will have the new Bronze and the Gun Metal Blue powders in stock and the solvent based Dark Green built with with the latest generation resin as well.
Thanks
Donnie

Can I pre-order both?

[Ausglock]

You will love the bronze.
Coating with it today...got 5000 135RNBB to do.

[NYBushBro]

Hello all,
Just a quick note that I am due to receive my latest shipment of Hi-Tek. It seems it finally got released and is due to arrive at my shop Wednesday next week.
For those interested I will have the new Bronze and the Gun Metal Blue powders in stock and the solvent based Dark Green built with with the latest generation resin as well.
Thanks
Donnie

I'll give you a call on Wednesday...

[HI-TEK]

You mention high gloss. I did up about 500 bullets using the green on 200 gr bullets meant for the 45acp. After two coatings and cookings they are a very glossy brown colour....very pleased. I intend to use them in my 45 Colt as I sized them .452. I'll post pictures of the targets over the week-end and bullets.

Take Care

Bob

Hi Bob,
You have done well.
It seems, that you really baked the coating really well.
You may have reproduced close enough, the results done by local manufacturer, who in fact deliberately over cooked the Dark Green coating to see what happens.
These were loaded and shot by another guy, who normally used standard dark green coated, and normally cooked projectiles, and he found, that over cooked darker coloured test projectiles shot very well, no Leading, clean barrel and accurate.
Aside from Dark green going darker with over cooking, there seemed no problems at all with the over baking.
I would be very interested in your results to see if you also got similar results with your Dark Green coated projectiles.
Hi-Tek

[Ausglock]

I don't understand why you are all over cooking.
If you don't care about colour, Just use Black coating.

Fired 400 38special loads today through the S&W 686. 125gn SWC coated with the Bronze 500.
6.0gr Power Pistol.

25 yards rested and it put 12 shots into a 3/4" hole.

I like this load for service match.
My ICORE load is 135gn RN over 5gn Power Pistol. Also shoots very tight groups at 25 yards. These are coated with Kryptonite Green.

[Gremlin460]

Belmont Q store web site is down trev will ring them in the morning.

I put 300 down range of the re-baked CAR, I did end up with a little leading. 5 mins cleaned it out. So I am close to the mark but not quite on it. Happy with the accuracy. Free hand at 30feet tore the entire 10 zone out of the NRA target.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Can I pre-order both?


Call me Monday
225 324 4501

[robertbank]

Hi-Tek - I went out yesterday afternoon to test both 9MM and 38spl. The former in my CZ 75 Shadowline amd the latter in y Ruger 4.2" GP-100. I shot my first 1" six shot group at 20 yards with my Ruger from a rest! The CZ 75 settled in with a nice round group at about 2", again from a rest. No evidence of leading in either gun. A cloth soaked in Hoppes 9 followed up by a dry cloth is all that was needed to clean the barrel.

I am using a table top convection oven. It takes about 10 minutes to get to 400F. Heat loss when inserting a tray of bullets results in a five minute delay in getting back to 400F. My bullets are exposed to heat for no less than 15 minutes, sometimes a bit longer depending on the amount of heat loss when loading either one or two trays. While I am religious when it comes to mixing the dry powder (20 grams to 100ml of acetone) and then applying 5ml of product on 2000grams of bullets, I want the product cooked properly. I had to redo 2,000 PC bullets once and once is enough. I guess I am prepared to over cook and lose colour to offset any chance of losing bullets to poorly adhered to product.

Perhaps I am being a bit anal with my concerns. Can I safely reduce either temperature or cooking times and not risk losing bullets to poor adhesion of product? Pretty bullets, I can get by PCing but pretty is not the objective. Producing quality coated bullets in volume that do not lead my barrels is the objective. I have demonstrated to myself yesterday, that any misses in IDPA will be on me not the bullet. LOL Like that isn't always the case. Besides the dark bronze colour I get using the Gold and the darker blackish colour I get using the Dark Green looks devilishly cool.

Cooler today, so after I get mom's list taken care of I intend to cast a bunch of 9MM, 38spl and 45acp bullets then do some rifle bullets up. I have a scoped Longbranch that is a tack driver with lead bullets. Time to introduce the old girl to Hi-Tek coated GC 314299 bullets.
This retirement is tiring me out.

Very pleased with this product. Thanks to Ausglock, Hi-Tek and Donnie for putting up with this dumb Canuck's questions.

Results over chrono comparing Hi-Tek to PCing
H AVG L
H L Avg SD PF PF PF
.38 Spl 700X 3.0 160 RCBS RN 358 1.470 Dom 760 722 38 736 8 1.09% 122 118 115 PC
.38 Spl 700X 3.0 160 RCBS RN 358 1.470 Dom 750 723 27 737 6 0.81% 120 118 116 HI-Tek

Identical Results out of the same gun. I don't normally use 700X but with the powder shortage you shoot what you can get.


Take Care

Bob
ps Sorry about the alignment, what you type and what you get are not quite the same.

[andre3k]

I'm running two of the largest counter top convection ovens that Oster makes. Each oven has two trays but experience has taught me that only using one tray at a time in each oven gives the most consistent results. The most I can run in each oven is about 250 bullets. What would be good oven to upgrade to? I would like to be able to do batches of at least 1k bullets. I 'm thinking maybe a home type convection oven or some type of commercial powder coat oven. Any suggestions?

[Shotgundrums]

Anything short of a PID controlled oven, no way. Next best thing is a breville 800xl. Loads of success with them from reports on this board. Ultimate would be an actual curing oven. But those are $$$$$

[HI-TEK]

I'm running two of the largest counter top convection ovens that Oster makes. Each oven has two trays but experience has taught me that only using one tray at a time in each oven gives the most consistent results. The most I can run in each oven is about 250 bullets. What would be good oven to upgrade to? I would like to be able to do batches of at least 1k bullets. I 'm thinking maybe a home type convection oven or some type of commercial powder coat oven. Any suggestions?

Andre3k
You can get second hand household stoves that have oven and some have fan forced system.
These are available from retailers and selling new ones, (probably free), and also who do trade ins, and stoves are available from metal re-cyclers where people may dump old stoves.
These household stoves are ideal, as they have good space inside, and can bake two or 3 trays.
If there is no fan then it, is easy to make your own and install with long shaft motor, (or extended shaft) outside mounted on wall of oven, and motor shaft go through wall, and fan inside oven area..
The only thing extra that may need attention in such ovens, is the temperature control and may be the thermostat.
I have seen commercial caster have 2 and 3 of such ovens, and turn around 1000 baked, in
10 to 15 minutes in each, so they were baking 3000 every 10-15 minutes.
Getting new ovens is great if you are thinking of making large amounts, but are costly, but can be justified if you are selling coated projectiles.

[Gremlin460]

Q Store only got AP100 and even that in 500g only... If you see some AP50 Trev give us a yell, 0433409335 Ta!

[andre3k]

Andre3k
You can get second hand household stoves that have oven and some have fan forced system.
These are available from retailers and selling new ones, (probably free), and also who do trade ins, and stoves are available from metal re-cyclers where people may dump old stoves.
These household stoves are ideal, as they have good space inside, and can bake two or 3 trays.
If there is no fan then it, is easy to make your own and install with long shaft motor, (or extended shaft) outside mounted on wall of oven, and motor shaft go through wall, and fan inside oven area..
The only thing extra that may need attention in such ovens, is the temperature control and may be the thermostat.
I have seen commercial caster have 2 and 3 of such ovens, and turn around 1000 baked, in
10 to 15 minutes in each, so they were baking 3000 every 10-15 minutes.
Getting new ovens is great if you are thinking of making large amounts, but are costly, but can be justified if you are selling coated projectiles.

I'm liking the oven idea and Ive seen plenty of ovens for sale of craigslist. I will be selling commercially and after purchasing a new bulletmaster and lubemaster the DIY alternatives are pretty appealing. I'm also looking at building something like this, but on a smaller scale.
http://www.powdercoatguide.com/2014/09/how-to-build-powder-coating-oven.html#.VWKKPkZhR1A

[HI-TEK]

I'm liking the oven idea and Ive seen plenty of ovens for sale of craigslist. I will be selling commercially and after purchasing a new bulletmaster and lubemaster the DIY alternatives are pretty appealing. I'm also looking at building something like this, but on a smaller scale.
http://www.powdercoatguide.com/2014/09/how-to-build-powder-coating-oven.html#.VWKKPkZhR1A


Great. My only concern is, that when you have such a large internal area, you are may be tempted to load into it, much too much product, then, cooking and air circulation will be major problem and you will get very large percentage of failures with some being over cooked and some inadequately being cooked.
If you are going into it in commercial volumes, (and depending on quantity), long term view is to make an oven with smallest internal area, fan forced, flow through system wire belt mesh type belting, and with which can be variable speed adjustable, so product retained in oven is kept at about 10-15 minutes and at about 200C.
That way, all heat generated is concentrated on heating product, and not air. This will also provide you ability to feed belt in single layer, as you need, that will carry product through oven and get best possible heat transfer and most even baking.
Biggest problems with multi-stacked ovens are that it does not matter, how good are your internal fans circulate air, you can get hot spots and cooler spots due to restrictions being placed by trays, and loads. This causes uneven heating/baking and may also produce many re-melts or re-cycling.
If you are planning to produce a quantity, for example 10,000 per day, make your oven so you over design it to cope with 25,000 to 30,000 per day. It will pay you in the long term.
Just getting back to second hand household stoves, (aside from being very inexpensive), if you get a couple of second hand ones, you should easily bake/ produce 2000-3000 in about every 15-20 minutes. That is about 6000 per hour.
I dont know your output requirements so I cant suggest what you will end up needing.
Powder coating type ovens (build yourself) may be OK, if you design it so you try to eliminate problems with inadequate air circulation and subsequent problems caused.
Please keep in mind, irrespective of what ovens you end up with is, that best is, a mini Cyclone air circulaltion inside oven is best.

[PAT303]

I don't understand why you are all over cooking.
If you don't care about colour, Just use Black coating.

Fired 400 38special loads today through the S&W 686. 125gn SWC coated with the Bronze 500.
6.0gr Power Pistol.

25 yards rested and it put 12 shots into a 3/4" hole.

I like this load for service match.
My ICORE load is 135gn RN over 5gn Power Pistol. Also shoots very tight groups at 25 yards. These are coated with Kryptonite Green.
Whats funny is I want mine black but get colour,I cast up a heap of 165grn 303 boolits over the weekend to use in out gong shoot,I might get some power pistol and try your 38 load in my 586 also. Pat

[HI-TEK]

Whats funny is I want mine black but get colour,I cast up a heap of 165grn 303 boolits over the weekend to use in out gong shoot,I might get some power pistol and try your 38 load in my 586 also. Pat


My guess is, (if you used liquid coating) that you have obtained a dark golden/greenish colour.
This is due to settled ingredients not being mixed up well enough.
What will happen, that as you use more coating, without mixing all evenly, is, that eventually you will end up with a very thick non glossy coating that will be black, but will end up with too much solids.
Please examine your coating concentrate by using a long screwdriver to see if there is solids on the bottom.
This may tell all.
Using powdered version to a great extent should eliminate uneven mixtures as powder mix is uniformly mixed and milled together.

[robertbank]

Hi-Tek I was out again today. I noted some material in the lands of the rifling. Not sure if I would call it leading more like fine coating. I shot a few round using PB GC'd bullets down the bore and the material was all but gone. I am not satisfied I am getting the drying I need by having the bullets sit out in the hot sun. Would there be any harm in drying the bullets in my oven set at 100F or would I risk starting a premature cure? The bullets went through the sizing process just fine with no loss of coating evident. The bullets have two coats.

Take Care

Bob