simple Hi-Tek coating

[M.A.D]

I bought 80,000 SP Primers last year, so good to go.

And i thought i was trigger happy at 20,000 rounds a year.... Yeah, i will be doing some serious casting and reloading over the next 6 months since we shut our doors today.... 6 months... No pistol shooting... Arrrgggggg.... We are thinking of running 3 gun out at my place..

[Ausglock]

And i thought i was trigger happy at 20,000 rounds a year.... Yeah, i will be doing some serious casting and reloading over the next 6 months since we shut our doors today.... 6 months... No pistol shooting... Arrrgggggg.... We are thinking of running 3 gun out at my place..

You seen Ben lately??

[M.A.D]

seen his brother a bit, but thats about it

[Stephen Cohen]

I don't have any empty brass to reload its all done. I was supposed to be out after deer this week but this virus may scare the farmer. May have to do some casting to fill the time. Stay safe all, Regards Stephen.

[Tazza]

Got the news my club is closed too, hopefully not for too long, but i see it being down for a while yet.....

The issue is, what happens for bills they will still have? will they have to close down for good, as they will have 6 or more months of no money coming in, but that will not stop the bills rolling in. I know that if/when my job gets put on hold, i still have a bank that wants house repayments.

[dikman]

I bought 80,000 SP Primers last year, so good to go.

Preppers would be impressed!:2gunsfiring_v1:

[Warhead]

Here are some 40-65 with 2 coats of true blue. Passes smash and wipe tests fine. Just always leans green. 12 minutes at 195c . Internal boolit temp reaches 365f for 2 minutes.

[Ausglock]

Tazz.
We have closed the indoor ranges. The outdoor ranges (IPSC, ICORE, Service, Cowboy etc etc) are still OK provided the people keep their distance. RO's are very attentive and LOUD!!!!

[Avenger442]

Virus here is not quite as bad as it is in some other places around us. We haven't had any confirmed virus deaths in our state. Thank God for his protection.


Last time I checked the ranges run by the state here are still open. Private one down the road is closed. Problem is it has rained almost every week for three months. All of the ranges are mud holes. OK around the shooting stations but can't walk down range to put out a target unless you have on waders and a raincoat. Need to do some more testing on some different .308 and can't even get range time because of the rain.

I've loaded all of my .45 and about 400 rounds of .38 special. Have about 200 rounds of my everyday carry .380. Will probably start on the .223 and .308 after the .38. Have about 50 rounds of .45-70 and need to load all of it. Ran into a couple of good buys last summer and the summer before on store bought rounds in .223 and .308. So I should have plenty as well as some for trading if I need it. Wish I had set up the shotgun press and had some good hulls.

[popper]

Made some empties today, range closes tomorrow.

[M.A.D]

Tazz.
We have closed the indoor ranges. The outdoor ranges (IPSC, ICORE, Service, Cowboy etc etc) are still OK provided the people keep their distance. RO's are very attentive and LOUD!!!!

259040

[dansedgli]

Both my clubs are closed now. :(

Have heaps of ammo loaded but wish I bought primers in the last group buy that was organised. Gonna be pricey when we can get them again.

I have a gun in NSW getting work done, i dont think I'll have a gunshop to send it to soon. It sounds like it might be closed.

[Tazza]

Tazz.
We have closed the indoor ranges. The outdoor ranges (IPSC, ICORE, Service, Cowboy etc etc) are still OK provided the people keep their distance. RO's are very attentive and LOUD!!!!

I think with my local range, SSAA they have been told they had to close, if we did matches with fewer people, i wonder if we can still do it. A mad mate is deep in the committee, so if there are any loop holes, he will find it to allow us to shoot a bit.

My steel match has 30-40 people, depending on the time of year, so i think that one will never happen till the threat is gone.

I also just bought 5k rounds of .22 and 10,000 primers. I held off as long as possible, but i know they will not go down in price, so may as well buy it now :(

[dikman]

SAPOL have closed all ranges in South Australia. Looks like I can't even go there to dig lead.:cry:

[M.A.D]

A hypothetical has been put forward about staff gaining access to the range.... lols........ For um Maintenance Purposes. Its that or we set up out at mine and go bananas out there....

[ioon44]

All of the IDPA & USPA matches in my area have been rescheduled or canceled.

[blackriver]

Any high volume hi-tek coated bullet producers within driving distance to Augusta GA send me a PM.

[Graakall]

Closed ranges where I live as well.

So I tried coating in the cold.
1-4 degrees celsius.

Put 10 kilos og boolits in the oven set at 50 degrees C.
Emptied them into my bucket and coated them 3,5 kilos at time when boolittemp hadde droppet to a cosy warm.

Passed all tests.

[Warhead]

Lyman 457 500gr nose pour converted.3 coats of Black Cherry.


And picture wont upload.... Well they passed all tests and look good. Yall just have to belive me. :mrgreen:

[Conditor22]

warhead, make sure the picture is under 200 KB to upload, most of us use photo hosting services like IMGUR!

[Warhead]

Thanks Conditor22 seems to have worked!

[Conditor22]

:drinks:

[kcofohio]

I've enjoyed reading this thread. It is my hope that, once life gets back to functional, I can invest into Hi-Tek.

[lablover]

I couldn’t find any info on my question. I’m a new hitek user and found for some reason MEK seems to flow better over my tiny .32 swc bullets. What I’m finding is (using black) that the first coat is very heavy. I’m using 3 ML per every 2 lbs of bullets. I’ve got some candy red on the way to try as well.

I’ve tried acetone but for some reason it doesn’t want to coat the bullets as well. Maybe smaller 1 lb batches?

Any tips on using MEK? I really want to get these to work

Thanks

[portersandstouts]

Hey Guys, I have tried searching through the thread and when I could not find what I was looking for decided to post. Those of you that are using probes inside your cast bullets did you use a specific type? I have destroyed two that I got off amazon and would rather not waist any more money trying to make this work. I ordered this...

https://www.amazon.com/Stanbroil-Temperature-Thermometer-Replacement-IVA-WLTHERM/dp/B07RFVDCH8/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=Cooking+Thermometer+with+probe+700+degree&qid=1585588475&s=lawn-garden&sr=1-4

And it seemed to work well. Used it for a few baking cycles to get a feel for how the oven works and how the heat changes when opening and closing the door. Then I decided to place on of the probes into a bullet like I have seen here. My lead was 710 when I cast, I poured some into the mold and then inserted the tip of the probe before it had solidified. Now the probe does not read anything. Any thoughts?

[Avenger442]

lablover

You other guys chime in.

Black is the color to start with. You can't over cook it and ruin the color. Assuming you followed the mixing directions that came with the coating, the thick coating on first coat is probably due to tumbling too long before dumping to dry plus having a little too much mix in the tumble. Try one ml per pound. The first coat should be almost like you can still see lead through the coating. Or what has been reffered to as just a stain rather than a coat. I think most are using about a 15 to 20 second tumble with acetone or until the sound of the tumble changes. I don't think that changes much with the MEK. That listening for the sound change is always hard for me. I have impaired hearing.

Did the bullets pass the smash test?

I personally use a closed tumble. I tumble in a closed plastic bowl. Note, this is not recommended by Joe, Ausglock and others. After years of doing it it is what works for me. Seems to give me a little more time to tumble and more evenly coat bullets. I use about 1ml per pound, tumble for 30 seconds and dump still wet. I also mix a little thinner than directions using acetone and usually do three coats on rifle and pistol. That gives me even coverage on everything but the hollow points. They are almost impossible to coat down in that hole. But doesn't really matter as far as the performance. I have shot single coated .308s at normal velocities with no leading. But they were ugly. This stuff works.

By the way, I love those labs myself. Have had two. Both were very smart trainable dogs with great dispositions. Only trouble I had with them in the house as puppies they like to chew things up. One got under the couch and chewed the leg off. Had a problem with the wife after that one. Also chewed part of the siding off of the house. We had all kinds of chew toys and leather that didn't help.



portersandstouts
I'm using something like this.

https://www.amazon.com/Proster-Thermocouple-Thermometer-Dual-Channel-Thermocouples/dp/B071V7T6TZ/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=k+type+thermocouple+meter&qid=1585591067&sr=8-3

Drilled bullet and secured end of thermocouple in it with aluminum tape.

259379

[Ausglock]

MEK give a better coat than Acetone. the coating is smoother.
3mls to 2Lb is about right. the first coat of K15 should be slightly "See through" before and after baking the first coat. the second coat of the same amount will give a smooth, shiny blacky black coating.
Have you shot any??
MEK allows for a longer swirl time. just remember to dump the swirled bullets while they are still wet. I have gone for a swirl time of 15 seconds lately, then dump.

[dikman]

Portersandstouts, those probes you used are rated to 700*F, it's no wonder they failed when you put them in hot lead. You want a K-type thermocouple, which is rated much higher. I bought a cheapie off ebay, similar to Avenger's which has a small thermocouple on the end, I just drilled a small hole in the base of the boolit and pushed in the sensor.

[lablover]

I have not shot any...after I coated and saw how thick it was I let em dry and right back in the casting pot it went! I’ll see if I can post a picture of what they looked like. Seemed a little grainy to me. I have OCD so something that doesn’t look right to me gets redone.. curse!

Then again, they might be correct. I also tried a metallic and the first coat was almost invisible. Let me figure out this picture thing....wooohooo victory

hope its not too small

259403

[lablover]

259405


Maybe better

[Elkins45]

MEK give a better coat than Acetone. the coating is smoother.
3mls to 2Lb is about right. the first coat of K15 should be slightly "See through" before and after baking the first coat. the second coat of the same amount will give a smooth, shiny blacky black coating.
Have you shot any??
MEK allows for a longer swirl time. just remember to dump the swirled bullets while they are still wet. I have gone for a swirl time of 15 seconds lately, then dump.
All my powders are mixed with acetone at the recommended proportion. What I’ve been doing recently is squirting in an extra couple of ml of ethanol for the first coat. It gives me a longer swirl time and it makes sure all the nooks and crannies get covered by the first coat. I hate it when there are bare spots in the lube grooves, especially for tumble lube bullets where they will likely contact the bore.

[lablover]

I’ve read someplace and have no clue where as my eyes are bleeding from all this reading is adding something else gives you a little more open time and the slippery needed to get into,those nooks etc. I find the shoulder on these tiny bullets don’t want to get coated without the MEK. Will have to try the methonal..not sure where to get it? I thought i read mineral spirits works with the acetone..can’t remember

Edit: I think it was denatured alcohol...aka. Ethanol. Lmao

[dikman]

I asked the secretary at my club about digging the berms, given the current conditions. SARPA have closed all ranges and said no-one is to enter for any reason - no shooting, maintenance, working bees, nothing! I'm a bit pissed off as I could dig the berms without causing any problems as the chances of anyone else being there is virtually nil, and I don't need to go into the clubrooms or anywhere else. No point in trying to reason with them 'cos I'm sure I'll lose.

Bugger, a waste of a great opportunity! Bloody Chinese!:x

[Ausglock]

Lablover, looks perfect.

Yep de-natured Alc. AKA Metho, AKA white spirit..

[HI-TEK]

Lablover, looks perfect.

Yep de-natured Alc. AKA Metho, AKA white spirit..

Ausglock
White sprits is a Hydrocarbon solvent. It will not work.

Lablover,
My suggestions for first coat, is to use a slightly more diluted Acetone coating mixture.
If he is using 20g/100, try using 20g/120-130mls Acetone, and add a little extra of this more diluted mixture to the projectiles. The extra solvent should travel into and onto all areas.
It just seems to be, that with smaller projectiles, you have a much higher surface area and that is why coating will not cover adequately. Using more of a more dilute mixture should fix these problems.

[Gremlin460]

Ausglock
White sprits is a Hydrocarbon solvent. It will not work.



You tell him Grandad!!! Hee hee Trev got told off...

[lablover]

Well guess I shouldn’t of put them back in the casting pot! Oh well, they have been reborn into a new batch.

Thanks gents for the help. Look forward to trying the candy red when it arrives

The little black and decker convection fan went out...back to Walmart it goes. Looking at the oster now

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

A note on the use of MEK. Here in the U.S. it's getting harder to find 100% pure MEK. A lot of the box stores are carrying a MEK substitute. In my limited experience with the substitute is that it does not work well.

[lablover]

A note on the use of MEK. Here in the U.S. it's getting harder to find 100% pure MEK. A lot of the box stores are carrying a MEK substitute. In my limited experience with the substitute is that it does not work well.


That’s the truth...that’s all I could find at first and tried it..did not dissolve the powder too well. Finally found some real mek and worked great! Might have to stock up. It for sure flows better over the bullets then acetone did.

[Ausglock]

You tell him Grandad!!! Hee hee Trev got told off...

There is a line Brad Pitt gives in the movie "Fury"
"I'll probably get chewed out....I been chewed out before"
Same here...lol

[Michael J. Spangler]

There is a line Brad Pitt gives in the movie "Fury"
"I'll probably get chewed out....I been chewed out before"
Same here...lol

I think you mean inglorious ********. Great line!

[HI-TEK]

A note on the use of MEK. Here in the U.S. it's getting harder to find 100% pure MEK. A lot of the box stores are carrying a MEK substitute. In my limited experience with the substitute is that it does not work well.

Just a further suggestion,
Fiberglass tank and pool makers use the MEK (and possibly Acetone) in 44 gallon drums.
You may get some decanted into your container.
Other places to get MEK is Fiberglass resin supply shops. The MEK is used for clean up when using the Fiberglass resins.
Some large hardware stores also sell pure MEK, but they tend to be a little more expensive.
Just make sure, that what you get is not a solvent blend containing MEK.
It has to be pure industrial grade MEK.

[lablover]

I think I may have figured out why I’m not getting good coverage..correct me if my thinking is off.

I’m doing small batches of 1 lb and using a large 10 quart bucket to swirl them around in! When I tried a larger batch I get better coverage. A pound of tiny .32 bullets don’t take up much space. Maybe I should try a smaller container to swirl in?

[HI-TEK]

I think I may have figured out why I’m not getting good coverage..correct me if my thinking is off.

I’m doing small batches of 1 lb and using a large 10 quart bucket to swirl them around in! When I tried a larger batch I get better coverage. A pound of tiny .32 bullets don’t take up much space. Maybe I should try a smaller container to swirl in?

Great diagnosis.
I think that you have found the cause. Using more, of a more diluted coating will work better, if you continue to use such large coating container with small batches, as liquid mixture will stay liquid longer and evaporate slower with the extra solvent used in the diluted brew...
The larger surface area in your large coating container would take up coating on surfaces and use up coating, plus solvent would dry quickly.

Don't forget, any coating that remains on walls of coating container can be recycled, by simply using straight Acetone, and swirling fresh cast. Coating will re-dissolve off the walls and coat onto the cast.

As you said, using a much smaller container, adequate to coat the amount you want to do should do the trick.

[Ausglock]

I think you mean inglorious ********. Great line!

Hmmmm... might have to watch both movies again to check...woohoo...

[M.A.D]

A note on the use of MEK. Here in the U.S. it's getting harder to find 100% pure MEK. A lot of the box stores are carrying a MEK substitute. In my limited experience with the substitute is that it does not work well.

You can blame a re emergence of old school cooks...

[M.A.D]

Daym, Got my Lee APP press from Titan... freight was more then the press, but had it in a week... Lee told me id be waiting till April/May... Now to Automate it... And make more carbide size dies....

[Stephen Cohen]

Great diagnosis.
I think that you have found the cause. Using more, of a more diluted coating will work better, if you continue to use such large coating container with small batches, as liquid mixture will stay liquid longer and evaporate slower with the extra solvent used in the diluted brew...
The larger surface area in your large coating container would take up coating on surfaces and use up coating, plus solvent would dry quickly.

Don't forget, any coating that remains on walls of coating container can be recycled, by simply using straight Acetone, and swirling fresh cast. Coating will re-dissolve off the walls and coat onto the cast.

As you said, using a much smaller container, adequate to coat the amount you want to do should do the trick.

Your quiet right Joe, I toss a couple batches from the bucket then use a pill lid full of acetone to swirl the 3rd batch which cleans up left over coating, works for me. If one does not clean up the excess regular like the cast get lumpy. Works for me. Regards Stephen

[Jhopson]

Hard to tell from the picture but I finally got the Zombie Green to stay the right color. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200401/f98b4f880d772b420954d1d11ad2c856.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lablover]

Wow, those look great! My candy apple red shows up today....can’t wait to try it

[Elkins45]

My local big box store didn't have any MEK and it's one f the few solvents I didn't already have a jug of. Ethanol is cheap and so far I have found it to be a really good diluting agent for giving longer swirl times. Plus, the fumes aren't nearly as bad as pure acetone.


Hard to tell from the picture but I finally got the Zombie Green to stay the right color. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200401/f98b4f880d772b420954d1d11ad2c856.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did you find the problem to be too much heat or too long a cook time? My first batch of zombie green was more of a poop brown and I would like to get it right the second time.

[Jhopson]

My local big box store didn't have any MEK and it's one f the few solvents I didn't already have a jug of. Ethanol is cheap and so far I have found it to be a really good diluting agent for giving longer swirl times. Plus, the fumes aren't nearly as bad as pure acetone.



Did you find the problem to be too much heat or too long a cook time? My first batch of zombie green was more of a poop brown and I would like to get it right the second time.

A little of both, my old oven had some “hot spots” in it. I bought another oven that has dual convection fans and it has eliminated the hot spots. I pre dry my bullets for 15 minutes at 120 degrees and then move them to the cook oven. Where I start the timer at 4 minutes once the bullet temp reaches 180 Celsius. I use the ATM method to check temps


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lablover]

Tried a smaller container today. Worked like a charm.

Now to get some zombie green! Lol

[Ausglock]

Daym, Got my Lee APP press from Titan... freight was more then the press, but had it in a week... Lee told me id be waiting till April/May... Now to Automate it... And make more carbide size dies....

Mine arrived yesterday... The left out the bullet sizer kit....Not Happy Jan!!!!!
Sizer dies are there but can't use them... Spewin.....

[Jhopson]

Black cherry 9mm-147’s. I like this color. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200401/fb8f22f6f5b67c015b82fd654f4ef781.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ausglock]

Nice...........Lets see ya pick that pail up....lol

[smlekid]

I've been wondering what are people using for flux? Is there a potential problem with coating not bonding with certain fluxes?

[Stephen Cohen]

I have not heard of any problems with any flux, I have used about all and found no problems. If you get any oil or wax on cast the coating will not bond but all this is burned off during the fluxing. Regards Stephen

[M.A.D]

Black cherry 9mm-147’s. I like this color. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200401/fb8f22f6f5b67c015b82fd654f4ef781.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Holy crap. And i thought i was trigger happy

[M.A.D]

Mine arrived yesterday... The left out the bullet sizer kit....Not Happy Jan!!!!!
Sizer dies are there but can't use them... Spewin.....

I will just make carbide sizers, so only needed one of theirs for dimensions. As for the press, pretty solid unit... But i will be machining up allot of those plastic parts from Aluminium... Will set it all up and see how much pressure is required to push a projectile.. Automating it seems pretty straight forward... Will post a video once done...

[Ausglock]

MAD. I'm running a 1/8HP, 1440 rpm 1phase motor with a Motovario 20:1 gearbox. this connects to the Lee ram and easily pushes bullets through the Lee sizer dies. Interested in your carbide sizers.....

[Ausglock]

I've been wondering what are people using for flux? Is there a potential problem with coating not bonding with certain fluxes?

Bees wax. about a thumbnail sized piece every 1/2 hr or so.

[Tazza]

I will just make carbide sizers, so only needed one of theirs for dimensions. As for the press, pretty solid unit... But i will be machining up allot of those plastic parts from Aluminium... Will set it all up and see how much pressure is required to push a projectile.. Automating it seems pretty straight forward... Will post a video once done...

I'm running a 1440rpm 3 phase motor with a 28:1 ratio for my sizer, but it won't have the same linkage points that yours does. It pushes pretty much everything through unless they are a fair bit over size, then it makes angry noises at me.

[dikman]

I've been wondering what are people using for flux? Is there a potential problem with coating not bonding with certain fluxes?
Just don't get any flux/wax/oil whatever on the boolits after you've cast them.

[jsizemore]

My biggest problem has been getting that first coat to stick. During the summer I've left them in the shed to dry for 24hrs with temps around 92degF. Winter time has been no go until I saw The member from Finland warmed his bullets to 50degC before and after he coated. I also saw the crowd in Oz used a space heater to cure. I used my small space heater to cure and it died on me. I cast about 1500 135gr 9mm's and wanted to get them coated. I put them out in my mesh pans but the ambient temp is 64degF even in full sunshine. I had a roll of aluminum flashing so I rolled it out on the table top and set the baskets on top. I put my digital meat thermometer probe amongst the coated bullets and got a temp of 109degF. How's that for being environmentally responsible. I'm gonna grab some lunch and give them a bake this afternoon.

[dikman]

Good thinking. Put a piece of glass over the top and they should get even hotter?

[lablover]

Got my candy apple red today. With my new discovery using a smaller container to swirl in. I think my first coat looks about right. Yes?

259559

[jsizemore]

After lunch the ambient temp was 66degF. Temp under the bullets was 122degF. That was 1.5 hours after I set them out in the sun. Set the PID on the convection oven for 385degF. With the Oster large convection oven loaded with 14 lbs of coated bullets I started the timer when the temp hit 370degF for 8 minutes cook time. Pulled them at the end of time and loaded the oven with the next batch. Coated the first batch and set out to dry on the flashing. Second batch finished and cooled to 95degF and coated them. Waited .5 hr and started cooking the second coat. The temp under the bullets had hit 109degF. Final outcome was the slickest hardest finish I've ever achieved. Sprayed lanolin/alcohol case lube on the bullets and sized in the Star while watching the news. I'm VERY happy with the way the coated bullets turned out.

Next time I'm gonna try 3 coats and a dressing mirror for a drying table. Now I got to load some and TEST, my favorite part. My last loaded batch kept 30 for 30 on a 4" target at 30 yards. Cleanup is a breeze using Hitek and N320.

[jsizemore]

Got my candy apple red today. With my new discovery using a smaller container to swirl in. I think my first coat looks about right. Yes?

259559

If they pass the 30 second acetone scrub test and the smash test then they'll look perfect.

[lablover]

After lunch the ambient temp was 66degF. Temp under the bullets was 122degF. That was 1.5 hours after I set them out in the sun. Set the PID on the convection oven for 385degF. With the Oster large convection oven loaded with 14 lbs of coated bullets I started the timer when the temp hit 370degF for 8 minutes cook time. Pulled them at the end of time and loaded the oven with the next batch. Coated the first batch and set out to dry on the flashing. Second batch finished and cooled to 95degF and coated them. Waited .5 hr and started cooking the second coat. The temp under the bullets had hit 109degF. Final outcome was the slickest hardest finish I've ever achieved. Sprayed lanolin/alcohol case lube on the bullets and sized in the Star while watching the news. I'm VERY happy with the way the coated bullets turned out.

Next time I'm gonna try 3 coats and a dressing mirror for a drying table. Now I got to load some and TEST, my favorite part. My last loaded batch kept 30 for 30 on a 4" target at 30 yards. Cleanup is a breeze using Hitek and N320.


So warming those babies up after coating might be a plus. Might have to look into this

[jsizemore]

It's got to be a must for someone living in Finland. He does some other stuff too and the bond he gets is great. The guys that cast commercially way down south do it to increase their production and get a good bond. The deal is to find a temp that dries without trapping solvent under the coating. These other folks have figured out the temp, and folks have come up with different methods to get there. I tried the oven but it went a little too high, and my space heater died. I just so happened to have some flashing and sunshine so I figured why not. Another idea I've had is to use the fan exhaust from your A/C condensing unit when we get to that time of year. Maybe attic drying? There's all kinds of possibilities.

[lablover]

It's got to be a must for someone living in Finland. He does some other stuff too and the bond he gets is great. The guys that cast commercially way down south do it to increase their production and get a good bond. The deal is to find a temp that dries without trapping solvent under the coating. These other folks have figured out the temp, and folks have come up with different methods to get there. I tried the oven but it went a little too high, and my space heater died. I just so happened to have some flashing and sunshine so I figured why not. Another idea I've had is to use the fan exhaust from your A/C condensing unit when we get to that time of year. Maybe attic drying? There's all kinds of possibilities.


Just did my last coat different. After coating was applied I set under fan to dry. After 60 min I set them on the top of the convection oven which holds 100f for about 10 min. Then in the oven

Came out the best I’ve ever seen. I’m liking this candy red. I assume the candy has the flake in it. Gonna have to find another color with the flake

So happy right now

[dikman]

You two chaps appear to have this process well and truly sorted! Well done.:drinks:

[ioon44]

I have used different heat sources get my coated bullets up to 120 deg F or more for about 15 to 30 min, I never have a failure doing this.

[m37]

s.. Will set it all up and see how much pressure is required to push a projectile.. Automating it seems pretty straight forward... Will post a video once done...

just got done motorizing a star sizer for a buddy machined a 1/2" drive cut on the
end of the press crank arm adapter to use a torque wrench
now he is using shake and bake PC so the pressure varies 9mm 124 gr 20-30 ft lbs
Stars have very little mechanical advantage so this would be max torque hope this helps

mike

[M.A.D]

just got done motorizing a star sizer for a buddy machined a 1/2" drive cut on the
end of the press crank arm adapter to use a torque wrench
now he is using shake and bake PC so the pressure varies 9mm 124 gr 20-30 ft lbs
Stars have very little mechanical advantage so this would be max torque hope this helps

mike

thanks.... I found a old industrial sewing machine im going to modify for a laugh

[Tazza]

thanks.... I found a old industrial sewing machine im going to modify for a laugh

Worth a try, did you have a suitable gear box for it too? I'm running around 60 RPM at full speed. For my setup, i think 60 RPM is about as fast as it can go to give the projectiles enough time to fall down into the sizing die and not get caught up between the die and the slider bar. With the setup of the APP, it may not be an issue and you could get a little more speed out of it, cause doesn't it use fingers and not a sliding bar?.

[m37]

dont know if you can find one where you are
we put a adjustable overload clutch on ours dalton osdc or a rosdc
the ones marked osd are for a sprocket chain drive only



https://www.facebook.com/Darnalls/videos/209907383759210/?t=7

[dikman]

thanks.... I found a old industrial sewing machine im going to modify for a laugh

Care to elaborate? I'm curious what you mean by modify.

[lablover]

After coating is done. Do you guys some type of lube to size?

[kevin c]

I use the sizing spray from HiTek. It really reduces the effort of sizing down a couple thousandths (or maybe I'm just a wimp).

[Ausglock]

Yep. Hitek sizing lube... works wonders.

[Petander]

Yep. Hitek sizing lube... works wonders.

Me three. Aqualube is so nice,easy and clean.

[lablover]

I’ve got some aqualube is there a time I should size after spraying? I tried it once but didn’t seem to slick.

Also, do you clean the bullets afterwards to get lube off? Again, didn’t seem too slick so not sure if it would affect performance at all.

[M.A.D]

Care to elaborate? I'm curious what you mean by modify.

Im going to automate the Lee APP press.....

[Ausglock]

I’ve got some aqualube is there a time I should size after spraying? I tried it once but didn’t seem to slick.

Also, do you clean the bullets afterwards to get lube off? Again, didn’t seem too slick so not sure if it would affect performance at all.

I mix the Aqualube with Metho (Denartured Alcohol) 10mls to the litre.
It doesn't feel slippery, but it sure makes sizing easy...

[dikman]

I figured that much:-D, but having several industrial sewing machines I'm naturally curious just what you have in mind. I'm having trouble picturing just how a sewing machine can be used to automate a press.:confused:

[kevin c]

Take it apart for the high torque electric motor?

[dikman]

Well, the "old" clutch motors are big, very heavy and in my opinion not suited to anything except a sewing machine. If you're talking about modern servo motors you can buy them off ebay for around Au$100, but again I'm not sure if they're that practical for this usage. Which is why I'm curious.

[Ausglock]

After playing with the Lee APP, I feel the biggest headache will be the feeder. it has "issues" with feeding bullets or Cases. not 100% reliable.
But... If it were to have a feeder bar similar to the Star bullet feeder, I think it would be a goer for sure.

[Tazza]

I think he is hoping to use the motor and slap a gear box to it and mount it over the top of where the handle pivots, or at least that was the initial plan, interesting to see how it goes and how the planned mods go. If all goes well, it may be a cheaper option than a star and a plug an play setup.

Not sure if i just did it wrong, but the aqua lube i used left white marks on my projectiles, i did use old metho, so that could have been my problem. With the smooth as silk carbide sizing dies i got my paws on last week from M.A.D, i want to see how my 158 swc go through it. They have been a pain in the past with lee sizer dies, needing to be done by hand as they were that tight. I have done 2 days of casting 158swc, i just need to hi-tek them now and see how they go through the press.

THEN we need to wait 6 or more months before we can flick them down range :(

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Tazza;4871809]

Not sure if i just did it wrong, but the aqua lube i used left white marks on my projectiles, i did use old metho, so that could have been my problem.


Tazza, I suspect you used far too much Aqualube. The dry residue should be barely noticeable and is more than adequate. If you have white blotches you used far too much and is wasted as excess will be removed with sizing.

[Gremlin460]

Automate a sizing press!! What a novel idea!!

[Ausglock]

Back in your box, Grem.....lol

[M.A.D]

After playing with the Lee APP, I feel the biggest headache will be the feeder. it has "issues" with feeding bullets or Cases. not 100% reliable.
But... If it were to have a feeder bar similar to the Star bullet feeder, I think it would be a goer for sure.

Already started drawing parts up.

[M.A.D]

Well, the "old" clutch motors are big, very heavy and in my opinion not suited to anything except a sewing machine. If you're talking about modern servo motors you can buy them off ebay for around Au$100, but again I'm not sure if they're that practical for this usage. Which is why I'm curious.

Well, i just want the motor. Just an experiment ....

[M.A.D]

Automate a sizing press!! What a novel idea!!

The thought of manually sizing 15,000 odd projectiles was rather daunting...... Its not like i can import someone from China and pay them $70USD a week to do it for me..... Arrrgggg i still have to cast them though.....

[M.A.D]

I think he is hoping to use the motor and slap a gear box to it and mount it over the top of where the handle pivots, or at least that was the initial plan, interesting to see how it goes and how the planned mods go. If all goes well, it may be a cheaper option than a star and a plug an play setup.

Not sure if i just did it wrong, but the aqua lube i used left white marks on my projectiles, i did use old metho, so that could have been my problem. With the smooth as silk carbide sizing dies i got my paws on last week from M.A.D, i want to see how my 158 swc go through it. They have been a pain in the past with lee sizer dies, needing to be done by hand as they were that tight. I have done 2 days of casting 158swc, i just need to hi-tek them now and see how they go through the press.

THEN we need to wait 6 or more months before we can flick them down range :(

Video footage , hows it running with the carbide dies?

[Tazza]

Video footage , hows it running with the carbide dies?

Sadly i haven't had a chance to do more than the 15 for a test, most of the week i have been messing with my mum's drieway and finishing off the wiring that was laid down :( I spent Wednesday melting down the scrap with the caster going i got on Friday, Thursday i blended it with lino (essentially a second clean of the scrap) casting machine going as well, today i had a bit of a rest, stacking up about 1.5 tonne of ingots and cleaning up the dross from the melt.

We have heaps of down time to cast and size will we can use them again :( if it's not all up and running, i'll size them for ya, i know a bloke that makes pretty good sizing dies we can use :)

Tomorrow, i hope to do some hi-tek coating, i have about 25k to do, i'm running out of paint tins to put them in (about 25kg), if i use big buckets, where i fill them, they stay till i size and package 'em.

[Ausglock]

Boohoo, princess....harden up...

[BBMF1]

G'day from Downunder [smilie=s:

G'day Ausglock , after you mix the aqualube with the metho how do you use it ? do you put it in a spray bottle and spritz it on the cast boolits or do you put the bullets in a tub and pour it in with them ? thank in advance for any help you can provide .

Regards Paul . :smile:

[Ausglock]

G'day Paul. spray it on very lightly..
It's a bit like PECKS PASTE... a little goes a LOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGGGG way

[WheelgunConvert]

I have been using the Red Copper for about 4 years now on several handgun calibers and 223 <2100fps. Is there a newer more preferred “color model “ for higher velocity?

Where can I find a list of current versions? If it’s in this thread, it’s near impossible to find due to the size.

[Ausglock]

I have been using the Red Copper for about 4 years now on several handgun calibers and 223 <2100fps. Is there a newer more preferred “color model “ for higher velocity?

Where can I find a list of current versions? If it’s in this thread, it’s near impossible to find due to the size.

Honestly, I'd stay with the Red Copper. Gold 1035 has had good reviews for rifle loads. I use Kryptonite Green for everything. these 3 would be the pick.

[smlekid]

So hoping at some stage this year I can use these in our yearly woodchop
https://i.imgur.com/AHNlX1Q.jpg
Gold 1035

[Elkins45]

I wish the website had pictures of actual coated bullets for all the colors, or the names listed on the color squares. You have to add it to your cart to see what the name of the color is.

What’s the difference between the two varieties of black?

[HI-TEK]

What’s the difference between the two varieties of black?

There are in fact 3 black coatings. Old Black which has a very dark faint brown tinge to it, then there is Texas Tea, Black with Gold Glitter, and there is Black K-15 which is intensely black. If I knew how to load the pictures I have, it would be very easy to identify each.
May be Ausglock has them and can load them up as he is expert with this stuff with loading onto this web site.

[Stephen Cohen]

G'day Paul. spray it on very lightly..
It's a bit like PECKS PASTE... a little goes a LOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGGGG way

Ausglock your showing your age, I have not seen that **** for years. I used to tell Mum the little blue spots were fish eyes and she stopped eating it. Regards Stephen

[Stephen Cohen]

I have been using the Red Copper for about 4 years now on several handgun calibers and 223 <2100fps. Is there a newer more preferred “color model “ for higher velocity?

Where can I find a list of current versions? If it’s in this thread, it’s near impossible to find due to the size.

I don't think any colour is better than the other for velocity, I found all I tried to be great to at least 2,400fps. I did however shoot my best groups with the gold. Regards Stephen

[kevin c]

G'day from Downunder [smilie=s:

G'day Ausglock , after you mix the aqualube with the metho how do you use it ? do you put it in a spray bottle and spritz it on the cast boolits or do you put the bullets in a tub and pour it in with them ? thank in advance for any help you can provide .

Regards Paul . :smile:
Ausglock isn't kidding that a little dab will do ya. I kept getting clogs in the pump spray, so once I cleared it I measured the volume sprayed. Now I just add 0.75 ml with a syringe to 250 coated and baked boolits and tumble them to mix before sizing. Works great.

[Ausglock]

Old Black
https://i.imgur.com/K3XF0Th.jpg
Texas Tea

https://i.imgur.com/qtEGGpP.jpg

Bkack K-15
https://i.imgur.com/vypgLAE.jpg

[HI-TEK]

Ausglock your showing your age, I have not seen that **** for years. I used to tell Mum the little blue spots were fish eyes and she stopped eating it. Regards Stephen

I love the Anchovy and also Ham paste, it is great with toast. My daughter tells me, that Woollies is the only store that sells it. It is easy to spread thick layers onto toast, where Vegemite is best when spread very sparingly.....

[HI-TEK]

Old Black
https://i.imgur.com/K3XF0Th.jpg
Texas Tea

https://i.imgur.com/qtEGGpP.jpg

Bkack K-15
https://i.imgur.com/vypgLAE.jpg

Thanks much for posting these pictures. I must take a lesson or two from you (or more), how to prepare and load pictures on here.

[Avenger442]

Happy Resurrection Day guys.

This Covid 19 is really boosting my service attendance. Listened to Charles Stanley earlier and am about to listen to our churches live stream on You Tube.

Have a blessed Easter! And don't eat too much candy8-).

[Avenger442]

So hoping at some stage this year I can use these in our yearly woodchop
https://i.imgur.com/AHNlX1Q.jpg
Gold 1035

That 1035 Gold is the first color I used way back when all was liquid. And, so far, my most accurate groups in .308 have been shot with it. But I don't think that it or any of the colors are more accurate than any of the other colors. That's based on my handguns. I've really only used three colors in my rifles the 1035 Gold, Black K15 and the Gun Metal.

[BBMF1]

G'day from Downunder [smilie=s:

G'day Ausglock , thank you for the info , I must just be old or greedy or fat ( most likely all of the the fore said :roll: ) as pecks paste disappears in my house .

Regards Paul . :-D

[HI-TEK]

I don't think any colour is better than the other for velocity, I found all I tried to be great to at least 2,400fps. I did however shoot my best groups with the gold. Regards Stephen

Stephen, many years ago, a company called Top Score International ended up exclusively using Old Gold coating. It had highest load of ingredients that appeared to be most effective in reducing heat transfer to alloy and Bore to alloy separation. After they did tests, this phenomena had surfaced, as being probably being the most important aspect of that coating, that appeared to be suitable for higher powered, higher velocity ammo to function as required. I have never had any one compare one colour with another in a specific application, but so far they all seem to work equally as well.
Doing some tests with Old Gold, compared to what you have used may reveal some answers.

I had looked up some records.
In 2002 the atomised test results, that were conduced by independent environmental management authority, to test the efficiency of Hi-Tek coatings ability to reduce atomised Lead, the test was in fact conducted using Old Gold coated cast.
Results obtained, confirmed, that the atomised Lead result as obtained with Hi-Tek coated cast was very similar To Copper plated alloy.
Atomised Lead results with use of Hi-Tek Old Gold coated Cast, met both Australian and US health regulations.
Bore residue after shooting Copper Plated was visible.
Bore after shooting the Old Gold coated cast was clean.

[Tazza]

The old black looks nice, i have been using K15 and red 122, i need to get my paws on different colours one day, just cause i can :)

I liked the idea of different colours for different loads, so i know say red is for my open gun, green is for the stock one in .38 super. That way, i can't put the powerful pews in the wrong gun as easily.

I'll need to try the tru blue when i order more powder

[dikman]

Thought I'd catch up on a bit of coating, while the weather is still warm (easier to dry the coating in the sun).
Roundballs have one coat, boolits have two. Yes, I know coating for muzzleloaders doesn't actually do anything but it means I'm not handling lead when loading. And they look pretty.:-D
Front row is .44-40, .38 and .36 for my slingshot. I'll re-size the boolits later, a nice job when the weather turns bad.
260350

[Papercidal]

260360I got a few new moulds from Mp and had some time last weekend so I made up a few.260359

My oven was not keeping consistent temp on the semi wadcutter batch and I think they may have got overcooked a bit.

[dikman]

Overcooked just a tad, but as long as they pass the smash test they'll shoot fine - and the gun won't care!:-D

[smlekid]

So 2 weeks in self isolation gave me a bit of time to do some casting
https://i.imgur.com/rvhanTx.jpg
not a lot compared to several on this forum but will keep me going for a while

[dikman]

Pretty, pretty...:drinks:

[smlekid]

that's weird top right in my photo are 44/40

[Petander]

You guys are cooking great looking bullets.

I'm so happy I tried Hi Tek,got hooked and my casting re-started from a many years hibernation. I got back to big revolvers and 45-70 and 45 ACP... also shoot 357 mag a lot for some reason now, more than semis.

Where I live,deep in the countryside,I can still go shooting whenever I like. As long as I have powder and primers, I'm not dependent on commercial shooting ranges that may be or get closed now.

[dikman]

You're lucky, Petander, this bloody Kungflu has closed all ranges in Australia (and some gunshops!), and pretty well the only people who can shoot are primary producers and the lucky few who have access to private land. No competition shooting. I think there's a lot of casting, coating and reloading going on at the moment.:lol:

This Hi-Tek is great stuff, and really it's pretty easy to use once you understand the basics. I've only had two failures, when I first started I had temperature issues but a PID fixed that and some time ago I had a batch fail because the first coat was too thick (it flaked badly). I don't measure the stuff, just squirt it into the mixing bucket (:bigsmyl2:) but I can now tell by looking whether the coating's going to work. I've already got more coated boolits than I'm likely to use up but every now and then I get the urge to cast some more, which, of course, means they will need coating! And so it goes...

They can keep their PC for garden furniture, as Trev says.:lol:

[Stephen Cohen]

Joe in regard to the old Gold, I actually saved the old Gold for the big bore high pressure loads such as 458 and 460 SW in my case. I have sent a good supply of 320gr cast to my brother for his 460 SW revolver, I know the gold coated had a velocity of just under 2,000fps with outstanding accuracy, as yet I have not heard back in regards to difference if any with the Red Copper. I got my best accuracy from my 458 wm using the Gold but I think it was just a good day for me, I normally get accuracy in the 40mm a 100 mtrs range but on the day in question it was a ragged hole for 3 shots and velocity was guessed at 1,800fps. I like the look of the gold and have many people ask how I cast brass bullets. I have done tests with the gold against the Red Copper with 158gr cast in my 357 maximum at a known velocity of just under 2,400fps and could pick no difference in group size which never exceeded 45mm at 100mtrs for 3 shots. The one thing I and others who used my cast all noted, was the fact the groups were perfect triangular groups if the shooter did his part. I have never had a flier from a group that I did not call as the shot broke. I can honestly say that to me colour is purely a preference for a colour and they all work better than I can shoot. After this latest gift from China I will get back into my testing. Regards Stephen

[Tazza]

Nice job guys.

I have spent the last week casting 9mm pills like a crazy person, sadly mine are all just plain 'ol K15 black, nothing pretty, but i have quite a few done so far, gonna keep going so i don't need to do more for quite a while. most have been coated, working on sizing them and others that have been sitting for a few months. Casing machine goes in the background while i feed the sizer.

When i cast, i put them into old 4 litre paint tins for easy(ish) moving of them, considering they are up to 30kg each. Some are fairly old and starting to rust inside. I cleaned one with steel wool and thought a coat of hi-tek may help fix this issue, so i dumped in a few ml and swirled it around, waited for it to dry then cooked it. When i bake my projectiles i dump them into these tins afterwards and store them in them till i size. So rust-free is ideally what i want. So far, it seems to have worked well.

[Stephen Cohen]

Tazza I used to use the Large baby formula tins but had same problem as you. I went to local take away shops and got several resealable plastic containers you would be surprised how many they have in various sizes. I also went to local thrift shop and purchased plastic containers cheap. The only way I found to stop cans rusting was to spray inside with food grade silicon and then use them for nuts and bolts. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

Go to Ice cream shops and ask for the tubs that the ice cream comes in. They are 15" long, 5" wide and 6"deep.
Will hold 3000 9mm bullets easy. I use them.

[Tazza]

Good ideas, i was getting a few buckets from Boost juice, but they have been closed down.... I may need to see if i can find another local one that is still open.

[ioon44]

How does Bronze 500 compare to Old Gold for high vel and pressure, I have always used Bronze 500 for magnum loads with out any problems.

[Avenger442]

Was it silicone or teflon lubes that Joe cautioned using because it could migrate and cause adhesion problems? I guess you need to be careful to not get any lube on bullets before coating no matter what it is unless you use the sizing lube sold by Joe. Not sure if that applies to the home made sizing lubes made with lanolin.

I use large peanut butter jars and other smaller and larger plastic jars for holding my coated. But I probably don't coat the numbers that Trevor or some of the rest of you that distribute do. But they are easy to handle. When I go to the range I rarely shoot more than 100 rounds. I did run out of coated bullets in the jars for the .38 and .45 when I decided to load up all of my brass in those calibers. Will be low on .308s when i load all of them. Casting time I guess.

ioon44
I have some of the Bronze 500 but have not run test comparing it with Old Gold as far as accuracy. I haven't noticed any difference in accuracy in Bronze 500 and the 1035 Gold that I have shot a bunch. Both Bronze 500 and the gold are metallic which is supposed to give them some additional heat reflection. Nether one, if properly applied, will leave lead in your barrel even with max loads. You will have to use gas checks, as you do with any lube, on max loaded magnum and rifle loads.

I have not noticed much difference between the colors, or even metallic or non, and accuracy in handguns. But have not run any testing comparing colors in the rifle. My accuracy problems usually have something to do with things other than the coating. I tried some neck turning on the .308s recently. Was a total disaster as far as accuracy. I didn't get all of the lube used in the neck turning off of the brass during sonic cleaning and it really messed up the groups. Went from typical 1 1/2" in unprepped brass to 5-6" at 100 yards with the neck turned. Been trying to remove that 1/2" from my typical groups for a long time. As you guys know consistency is the key to tight groups in handloading after you find the load. I've found that that applies to coating too.

[Ausglock]

Silicone is a huge NO NO..

[Stephen Cohen]

How does Bronze 500 compare to Old Gold for high vel and pressure, I have always used Bronze 500 for magnum loads with out any problems.

Old Bronze is fine for full power rifle loads and any pistol loads. Regards Stephen

[wlkjr]

I was getting low on my lead ingots of wheel weights. A friend of mine saw an ad for some range scrap ingots. I struck a deal for 500 pounds at $1.25 a pound. That probably won't mean anything to y'all from down under, but that will cut cost at least in half and maybe more. My main colors are K15 Black and Black Cherry. I color code my loads for my wife 's loads and mine. I tried once to sneak some of my loads in for her and her gun kept stovepiping. Had to reload all her mags with a slightly hotter load for her weaker grip.
As for the Aqualube, I put about 200-300 in a gallon plastic ziploc bag and spritz about 2 pumps from the sprayer and then zip the bag and roll them around. So far this has worked great for me.
I try to keep about 2000 pieces of each color (black and red) in 9mm and .45acp on hand. I also try to have some uncoated on hand. I've been coasting on my supply since I haven't been shooting so much lately.

[dikman]

I reckon that price is pretty good, given that it's already been smelted down! All the hard work's been done.

[Tazza]

Coming from someone that has had the pleasure of smelting range scrap, depending on how it was gathered up, that is a fine price. I used to get scrap from my local range, i got to mine the berm. My brother and I spent about 6 hrs at Christmas time (our summer) on a closed range day. We got around 600kg of rocks/dirt and lead loaded on the truck. I then spent about 2 days melting this lovely mix into about 400kg of clean ingots.

6 or so hrs mining, followed by 2 days of about 8 hrs each melting and cleaning the scrap, it was not at all a fun process, but at the time, i had no other sources of lead.

I got 2 buckets of wheel weights donated to me about 6 moths ago, i melted them down for a mad mate that is casting 12gauge slugs, so if there was zinc in the mix, it didn't matter as much. I use range scrap and linotype for my cast, no issues with hi-tek bonding, and no leading.

[Gremlin460]

Good ideas, i was getting a few buckets from Boost juice, but they have been closed down.... I may need to see if i can find another local one that is still open.

Try "People in Plastic" on the north side, I bought 2000 4L square tubs and lids of them a few years back..
Still have 1200 left and they good quality.

[dikman]

I'm still doing it, Tazza, but it's a lot of work and it's really only something you do if you've got a lot of time! It doesn't matter how much you clean the scrap first it's amazing how much crud comes off. I've still got about 300kg (I think) to do, might start tomorrow.

[Ausglock]

Bugger that... New 2,6,92 for me.
The only smelting I do now is reclaiming the dross from the pots. About every 2 years.

[dikman]

It's not something you would do if making boolits commercially. Too time consuming and a lot of messing around!!

[Tazza]

Try "People in Plastic" on the north side, I bought 2000 4L square tubs and lids of them a few years back..
Still have 1200 left and they good quality.

I should come for a drive and liberate a few from you :P

dikman - Very true, i managed to find the time to do it, not a job i enjoy, but had to be done so i could start casting again. Once you got the pot hot, it does go faster with the puddle of molten lead to heat what you drop in next. The worst part of it is when the bloody coppers shoot near the berm and flick any 40 cals they drop onto it. I sure find them, thankfully haven't been burnt yet, but it's been close with the POP and a puff of dross.

Very true, for commercial, it's really not an option. I cast enough for me and others at my club, if i was commercial, i'd need to buy the real stuff to save time and also for consistency. I do get variation between batches, it may not be a lot, but it's still there.

[dikman]

Yesterday's batch, 175 kg. It's exciting when you drop the next load of scrap into the "puddle" and it's got moisture in it!!!!
260871

[Tazza]

Yesterday's batch, 175 kg. It's exciting when you drop the next load of scrap into the "puddle" and it's got moisture in it!!!!
260871

Awesome job there, they look exactly like mine :)

Ooh yeah, it sure wakes you up. I few years back i had a bucket i got off a mate that had been sitting out at his joint, but i kept it under cover, i thought it was dry, the top sure was, but it had a nice wet bottom, i found this out as i dropped the entire bucket in and it erupted tinsel.... Up the side of my shed, up the tree and a little on my clothes. I only got a few tiny burns on uncovered areas, i was very lucky and learned to drill a hole at the bottom just to be sure....

Now, any wet or suspect buckets go in first or get added slowly so they float and evaporate instead of being just dropped and fall to the bottom and go BOOM.

[dikman]

Just finished off the last of my range scrap, Tazza, another 126 kg! A fairly dirty job. I've now got around 600 kg. smelted, guess I might have to do a bit more casting and coating.:lol:

[Ausglock]

G'day everyone.

I heard that people were having issues with the colour of the TRUBLU. It was going green or brown etc etc..

I asked Joe for a sample of the batch that he sent to the US.
Finally got around to testing the sample today.
Data:
20gms to 100mls Acetone
Coated 6mls to 2.3kg of 135gn RN 9mm bullets.
Both coats baked at 195Deg C for 7:30mins.
Wipe and smash test pass with flying colours.. (flying colours......coloured bullets....pew pew pew.......get it??? LOL)

All my baking irrespective of sample colours is done at 195Deg C for 7:30mins, So nothing special was done for the TRUBLU test.
So. People, Check your temps and bake times.
TRUBLU works as intended.
Have a look.
https://i.imgur.com/CQ5PJbj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/d1ioOYY.jpg

P.S. They look bloody brilliant out in the daylight... Put a horn on a Jellyfish..

[Tazza]

Just finished off the last of my range scrap, Tazza, another 126 kg! A fairly dirty job. I've now got around 600 kg. smelted, guess I might have to do a bit more casting and coating.:lol:

That sure is a nice haul, should keep you busy for a while, till we are allowed to shoot again that is, then send a heap of it down range! I plan on a heap of shooting when we finally can have trigger time.

[Ausglock]

TruBlu in the daylight with Kryptonite Green for refference.
Previous photos were inside the shed under fluro lighting.
https://i.imgur.com/YHznb1m.jpg

My fan heater drying rack.
https://i.imgur.com/Z3o4Re0.jpg

The 2 layer cooling rack with fan. Because I bake 2 trays at once, this setup cools them to room temp in about 3 minutes.
https://i.imgur.com/Vx5J9tT.jpg

[RydForLyf]

TruBlu in the daylight with Kryptonite Green for refference.
Previous photos were inside the shed under fluro lighting.
https://i.imgur.com/YHznb1m.jpg

Those colors are amazing. I consistently get a blue-green but it’s still a nice blue-green.

[Burnt Fingers]

G'day everyone.

I heard that people were having issues with the colour of the TRUBLU. It was going green or brown etc etc..

I asked Joe for a sample of the batch that he sent to the US.
Finally got around to testing the sample today.
Data:
20gms to 100mls Acetone
Coated 6mls to 2.3kg of 135gn RN 9mm bullets.
Both coats baked at 195Deg C for 7:30mins.
Wipe and smash test pass with flying colours.. (flying colours......coloured bullets....pew pew pew.......get it??? LOL)

All my baking irrespective of sample colours is done at 195Deg C for 7:30mins, So nothing special was done for the TRUBLU test.
So. People, Check your temps and bake times.
TRUBLU works as intended.
Have a look.
https://i.imgur.com/CQ5PJbj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/d1ioOYY.jpg

P.S. They look bloody brilliant out in the daylight... Put a horn on a Jellyfish..

I'm going to lower my cook temp. I've been cooking at 205/400° for eight minutes and the blue has been turning green.

[Ausglock]

The Max temp my oven gets to when set at 195Deg C is 197 at the end of the bake.
The probe in the bullet stays at 195 at the end of the bake.
I am assuming the coating, once crosslinked, is insulating the alloy from the oven temp increase.
But it's only 2 Deg C, So probably means nothing.

[RedlegEd]

The Max temp my oven gets to when set at 195Deg C is 197 at the end of the bake.
The probe in the bullet stays at 195 at the end of the bake.
I am assuming the coating, once crosslinked, is insulating the alloy from the oven temp increase.
But it's only 2 Deg C, So probably means nothing.

Hi Trevor,
Thanks for the instructions and the beautiful "here's what it's supposed to look like" pictures. Unfortunately, I'm left a little confused and unsuccessful. I just tried using your method with my Tru Blu, and wound up with very green bullets, which I understand is a sure sign of over-baking. So my question is, when does the 7:30 start? I have a probe in a bullet, as well as one in the oven chamber. I started the time when the bullet probe hit 195°C (383°F,) and it stayed pretty consistent for the 7:30 minutes. It takes my little oven a while (10-15 minutes) to get to temperature once the door was open and the new bullets put it, so could all that pre-heat time be affecting it? Do you have any suggestions or recommendations? BTW, my bullets passed both the wipe and smash tests, so I know they're good to shoot...I just wanted pretty blue bullets. :-D
Thanks,
Ed

[HI-TEK]

Hi Trevor,
Thanks for the instructions and the beautiful "here's what it's supposed to look like" pictures. Unfortunately, I'm left a little confused and unsuccessful. I just tried using your method with my Tru Blu, and wound up with very green bullets, which I understand is a sure sign of over-baking. So my question is, when does the 7:30 start? I have a probe in a bullet, as well as one in the oven chamber. I started the time when the bullet probe hit 195°C (383°F,) and it stayed pretty consistent for the 7:30 minutes. It takes my little oven a while (10-15 minutes) to get to temperature once the door was open and the new bullets put it, so could all that pre-heat time be affecting it? Do you have any suggestions or recommendations? BTW, my bullets passed both the wipe and smash tests, so I know they're good to shoot...I just wanted pretty blue bullets. :-D
Thanks,
Ed

RedlegEd
I just wanted to put in, my two bobs worth here.
The properly dried coated cast, needs to get to 180C inside oven.
Once it gets to 180C it has to stay there or above for about 2 more minutes.

If I am reading your baking details correctly, you are starting the time in oven, from when the load gets to 195C, and you are holding it there at 195C for another 7:30 minutes longer afterwards. (Am I reading this correctly?)

Ausglock's times as quoted, begins from when he places load into the oven to start baking process.
His oven brings up temperatures very quickly and the load gets to cure conditions ( 180C and onwards ) very quickly.
After load is placed into oven, the time of 7:30 minutes, this is actual time of load that is spent inside the oven to get to correct cure conditions .
After load has spent 7:30 minutes in oven, the load is at 195C and is ready to be removed from oven.

[portersandstouts]

So, I have nothing to add on the True Blue Bullets as I have yet to try them, (maybe this week ;). Anyway, I do have a few questions for those of you that have been doing this longer then I have. I cast a bunch of 300 blk bullets and coated them with the candy apple red. The bullets are approx 225 grain subsonics. I am posting because of the way the bullets looked when I recovered some out of the berm. (See pics below) It almost looks like the coating came off in the bore... I am scratching my head because they passed the smash and acetone test on all three coats. (1 ML per pound). The pistol rounds I have recovered may show lead where another round impacted them, but they do not show lead anywhere else. What are yalls thoughts??? I have included some pics of the rounds before I shot them as a comparison.

261155
261156
261157
261158

[Ausglock]

redleg.

Are you pre-warming your bullets? Have a look at my drying stand picture. You can see the fan heater that is used to pre-warm the trays next to go into the oven.
My oven has 2 huge wattage elements, so 7:30 is no problem.
The smaller convection benchtop ovens need around 10 to 12 minutes at 195Deg C.

[Ausglock]

Porter....are the loads accurate?
Looks like they are undersize in Dia.......

[RedlegEd]

Gentlemen,
Thanks. I think I now understand. Trevor, yes, I preheated using pretty much the same setup you did. I’ll give it another go to see how they come out.
Regards,
Ed

[portersandstouts]

Thanks for the Reply Ausglock, so to answer your question, no. These were the first cast pills I had shot in this gun and I knocked a soft lead ball through to get a reading and got .3083 that being the case I sized a bunch up at .309 and .310 the 309 were bad, the 310 were not much better. (I am talking 6+ inch groups out of a gun that has given me .70 inch groups at when I do my part.) Since I am newish to the coatings is it normal for rounds that are undersized to look like that? The mold I am using drops at 311, I guess I could load a few without sizing and see how they do.

[RedlegEd]

RedlegEd
I just wanted to put in, my two bobs worth here.
The properly dried coated cast, needs to get to 180C inside oven.
Once it gets to 180C it has to stay there or above for about 2 more minutes.

If I am reading your baking details correctly, you are starting the time in oven, from when the load gets to 195C, and you are holding it there at 195C for another 7:30 minutes longer afterwards. (Am I reading this correctly?)

Ausglock's times as quoted, begins from when he places load into the oven to start baking process.
His oven brings up temperatures very quickly and the load gets to cure conditions ( 180C and onwards ) very quickly.
After load is placed into oven, the time of 7:30 minutes, this is actual time of load that is spent inside the oven to get to correct cure conditions .
After load has spent 7:30 minutes in oven, the load is at 195C and is ready to be removed from oven.

Hi,
Yes, you read that correctly. Okay, another question regarding temperature. I'm guessing that the key is the temperature of the coating itself and not the bullet, correct? So if I put a load into the oven at, say 185°C, and it gets to and stays at that temperature for at least 2 minutes, that should cure the coating regardless of the internal bullet temperature, correct? I don't mean to be nit picky, but it takes a lot longer than that for the bullet to heat through to the oven set temperature. In any event, here's what my Tru Blu came out like...pretty, just not Blue. I'll try again using the advice you and Trevor provided. BTW, the blue stain on my hand is what I was hoping for!!
Thanks again,
Ed

261169

[HI-TEK]

Hi,
Yes, you read that correctly. Okay, another question regarding temperature. I'm guessing that the key is the temperature of the coating itself and not the bullet, correct? So if I put a load into the oven at, say 185°C, and it gets to and stays at that temperature for at least 2 minutes, that should cure the coating regardless of the internal bullet temperature, correct? I don't mean to be nit picky, but it takes a lot longer than that for the bullet to heat through to the oven set temperature. In any event, here's what my Tru Blu came out like...pretty, just not Blue. I'll try again using the advice you and Trevor provided. BTW, the blue stain on my hand is what I was hoping for!!
Thanks again,
Ed

261169

There are a few things to consider.
1.If your oven is not fan forced air circulation and load is close to heating element, you may get radiant heat damage of coating colour.
2. That coated cast must get to 180C to correctly cure coating. If you are using a probe inside a coated cast to measure temperature, that should be your guide with load temperatures.
The coating turning Green tells me that you have exceeded temperatures well above what you thought were the set temperatures.
Posts from Ausglock showed that after 7:30 minutes, his load in oven was taken out, and load was at 195C, and coating remained Blue.
For coating to go green, temperatures may have been much higher than you thought, or as I said, radiant heat from your element damaged coating colour. You really must determine what conditions and times are required for a specific load to work inside your oven.

[RedlegEd]

There are a few things to consider.
1.If your oven is not fan forced air circulation and load is close to heating element, you may get radiant heat damage of coating colour.
2. That coated cast must get to 180C to correctly cure coating. If you are using a probe inside a coated cast to measure temperature, that should be your guide with load temperatures.
The coating turning Green tells me that you have exceeded temperatures well above what you thought were the set temperatures.
Posts from Ausglock showed that after 7:30 minutes, his load in oven was taken out, and load was at 195C, and coating remained Blue.
For coating to go green, temperatures may have been much higher than you thought, or as I said, radiant heat from your element damaged coating colour. You really must determine what conditions and times are required for a specific load to work inside your oven.

Hi,
Thanks for the response. Please don't consider my probing as argumentative, just inquisitive because according to what you've stated above, I should be good. To your points:
1. The oven has an internal fan circulating the air, and the bullets are fully shielded from the elements by a tray of sand (I only use the bottom elements.)
2. Temperatures were taken from both a coated cast bullet with the TC inside the bullet, as well as a probe in the oven cavity itself at the level of the tray by different thermometers (calibrated within 5°F of each other.) In neither case, did the temperatures exceed 384°F (195.5°C.) Actually, the bullet temperature never quite got to the oven temperature. That's why I was leaning toward the duration of the cure more so than the temperature. I'll continue to try to perfect my technique and/or equipment to take full advantage of the Tru Blu. I know I'm getting very good, shootable bullets, so now it's all a matter of aesthetics! :smile:
Thank you again for your help.
Ed

[Ausglock]

G'day Ed.
My oven is a domestic wall oven that has been modified.
It has an element at the rear around the fan and another in the top of the compartment.
My top tray is about 6" from the top element. Bottom tray is about 10" from the top element.
both trays come out exactly the same colour, so airflow is the king of uniformity.

[RedlegEd]

G'day Ed.
My oven is a domestic wall oven that has been modified.
It has an element at the rear around the fan and another in the top of the compartment.
My top tray is about 6" from the top element. Bottom tray is about 10" from the top element.
both trays come out exactly the same colour, so airflow is the king of uniformity.

Hi Trevor,
I can see how that would make a big difference. My oven is a larger, heavily insulated, toaster oven with a convection fan, but I'm not convinced it really moves a lot of air. I'm just curious how your oven can bring the internal temperature of the load to 195°C after only 7.5 minutes, even with preheating. I think the only way mine could work that quickly would be to have an excessively high ambient temperature in the oven, which I understand would really over-cook the coating. I don't want to make this harder than it seems, and maybe I'm just dense, but I'm trying to learn so I can make the best quality coated bullets (and pretty too.)
Thanks,
Ed

[RydForLyf]

Hi,
Yes, you read that correctly. Okay, another question regarding temperature. I'm guessing that the key is the temperature of the coating itself and not the bullet, correct? So if I put a load into the oven at, say 185°C, and it gets to and stays at that temperature for at least 2 minutes, that should cure the coating regardless of the internal bullet temperature, correct? I don't mean to be nit picky, but it takes a lot longer than that for the bullet to heat through to the oven set temperature. In any event, here's what my Tru Blu came out like...pretty, just not Blue. I'll try again using the advice you and Trevor provided. BTW, the blue stain on my hand is what I was hoping for!!
Thanks again,
Ed

261169

Mine look exactly like yours, blue-green. I jumped onto the TruBlu wagon back around page 645 and gave it the college try. Not to bore you, but I tried every temp and time combination I could come up with, bought a different oven too. I was never able to get a blue bullet. Don’t get me wrong, what I get is nice looking, just not blue. I’m happy with the color I get, but if someone can give me a new process to use, I’ll try it and see if it will work.

https://i.imgur.com/EtVTTIk.jpg

[RedlegEd]

Hi RydForLyf,
I've read your posts and see that you've also been trying to nail down that elusive blue. I will tell you that I tried backing off the temp and time, and the bullets did come out blue, but failed the swipe test, so back into the oven they went to finish curing. Of course, in the process they lost the pretty blue. Like I told HI-TEK and Trevor, I know I'm making good coated bullets, I'm just after aesthetics now. I appreciate your comments as now I don't feel like I'm all alone.
Regards,
Ed

[Ausglock]

looking at your bullets, both of you are not that far off what mine are.
When you are adding the coating to the bucket of bullets, Are you shaking, swirling, etc etc the mix immediately before adding to the bullets?
I use a 10ml syringe and suck up, squirt back, then suckup the 6mls needed. this homogenises the mix.
remember this stuff settles out real quick.
If you are adding a weak, settled mix it can cause a weak colour..
Just saying..

[RedlegEd]

looking at your bullets, both of you are not that far off what mine are.
When you are adding the coating to the bucket of bullets, Are you shaking, swirling, etc etc the mix immediately before adding to the bullets?
I use a 10ml syringe and suck up, squirt back, then suckup the 6mls needed. this homogenises the mix.
remember this stuff settles out real quick.
If you are adding a weak, settled mix it can cause a weak colour..
Just saying..
Hi Trevor,
Yes. Thoroughly shaken (not stirred) (sorry, I just had to say it) and mixed before putting into a measuring spoon and sucked up by a 10 ml syringe to apply to the bullets. I’m only using 6 ml/5 lbs of bullets and I have mixing balls in the bottle of coating solution. I appreciate the help and suggestions, and I’ll keep trying, but at this point I think it’s going to stay elusive for me.
Ed

[RydForLyf]

looking at your bullets, both of you are not that far off what mine are.
When you are adding the coating to the bucket of bullets, Are you shaking, swirling, etc etc the mix immediately before adding to the bullets?
I use a 10ml syringe and suck up, squirt back, then suckup the 6mls needed. this homogenises the mix.
remember this stuff settles out real quick.
If you are adding a weak, settled mix it can cause a weak colour..
Just saying..

Shaken, not stirred and then immediately squirted into measuring spoons and then into bucket. No settling at all.

While baking, I can watch the blue start to turn colors when ATM probe reads about 300F, 65F below cure temp. Total cook time is 8.5 minutes with oven set to 192C, measured and controlled via PID. Oven is convection and attempts were duplicated in an air fryer I bought for experimenting.

I'll test later this summer to see if the results will change when heat and humidity is higher.

[HI-TEK]

looking at your bullets, both of you are not that far off what mine are.
When you are adding the coating to the bucket of bullets, Are you shaking, swirling, etc etc the mix immediately before adding to the bullets?
I use a 10ml syringe and suck up, squirt back, then suckup the 6mls needed. this homogenises the mix.
remember this stuff settles out real quick.
If you are adding a weak, settled mix it can cause a weak colour..
Just saying..

I saw your initial photos taken inside. They seem to have a strange colour.
When you took it out into sunlight, they glowed Blue and lost that strange colour aspect.
The colours I see posted, seem also to be taken under indoor lighting and look very similar to first indoor photos.
If they are photographed indoors, I wonder how the posted Blue looks outside in full sun.

[HI-TEK]

Hi,
Thanks for the response. Please don't consider my probing as argumentative, just inquisitive because according to what you've stated above, I should be good. To your points:
1. The oven has an internal fan circulating the air, and the bullets are fully shielded from the elements by a tray of sand (I only use the bottom elements.)
2. Temperatures were taken from both a coated cast bullet with the TC inside the bullet, as well as a probe in the oven cavity itself at the level of the tray by different thermometers (calibrated within 5°F of each other.) In neither case, did the temperatures exceed 384°F (195.5°C.) Actually, the bullet temperature never quite got to the oven temperature. That's why I was leaning toward the duration of the cure more so than the temperature. I'll continue to try to perfect my technique and/or equipment to take full advantage of the Tru Blu. I know I'm getting very good, shootable bullets, so now it's all a matter of aesthetics! :smile:
Thank you again for your help.
Ed



Just a stupid question.
You mention using thermometers to measure temperatures.
Are you measuring oven air temperature or coated cast temperatures?
Air inside at a specific point in oven may be 195C, but that does not directly transfer as your load being at that same temperature.
Can you measure coated cast temperatures at given time intervals?
This will tell you a comparison between oven air temperature and product actual temperatures.

[RedlegEd]

Hi,
Thanks for the response. Please don't consider my probing as argumentative, just inquisitive because according to what you've stated above, I should be good. To your points:
1. The oven has an internal fan circulating the air, and the bullets are fully shielded from the elements by a tray of sand (I only use the bottom elements.)
2. Temperatures were taken from both a coated cast bullet with the TC inside the bullet, as well as a probe in the oven cavity itself at the level of the tray by different thermometers (calibrated within 5°F of each other.) In neither case, did the temperatures exceed 384°F (195.5°C.) Actually, the bullet temperature never quite got to the oven temperature. That's why I was leaning toward the duration of the cure more so than the temperature. I'll continue to try to perfect my technique and/or equipment to take full advantage of the Tru Blu. I know I'm getting very good, shootable bullets, so now it's all a matter of aesthetics! :smile:
Thank you again for your help.
Ed


Just a stupid question.
You mention using thermometers to measure temperatures.
Are you measuring oven air temperature or coated cast temperatures?
Air inside at a specific point in oven may be 195C, but that does not directly transfer as your load being at that same temperature.
Can you measure coated cast temperatures at given time intervals?
This will tell you a comparison between oven air temperature and product actual temperatures.

Hi.
Certainly not stupid questions, especially when you are trying to help. To your questions:

You mention using thermometers to measure temperatures. Yes, digital thermometers (see picture below,) as well as the PID therocouple that I use to control the oven. This probe is also at the same level of the bullet tray.

Are you measuring oven air temperature or coated cast temperatures? Both. As I stated in #2 of my post, "Temperatures were taken from both a coated cast bullet with the TC inside the bullet, as well as a probe in the oven cavity itself at the level of the tray by different thermometers (calibrated within 5°F of each other.)" The probe from the Dot is actually in the tray with the bullets.

Can you measure coated cast temperatures at given time intervals? Yes, I'll be happy to chart the temperatures with a tray load of bullets. It may take me a little bit before I can get to it, but I can do a simple test how long it takes the heat transfer of ambient to cast temperature at 190°C.

Ed

261220

[RedlegEd]

I saw your initial photos taken inside. They seem to have a strange colour.
When you took it out into sunlight, they glowed Blue and lost that strange colour aspect.
The colours I see posted, seem also to be taken under indoor lighting and look very similar to first indoor photos.
If they are photographed indoors, I wonder how the posted Blue looks outside in full sun.

Hi.
I'm waiting for the sun to come out and I'll get a photo of the bullets in the sunlight. This is a bowl of my bullets taken under a white LED shop light.
Ed

261221

[RedlegEd]

I saw your initial photos taken inside. They seem to have a strange colour.
When you took it out into sunlight, they glowed Blue and lost that strange colour aspect.
The colours I see posted, seem also to be taken under indoor lighting and look very similar to first indoor photos.
If they are photographed indoors, I wonder how the posted Blue looks outside in full sun.


Hi.
I'm waiting for the sun to come out and I'll get a photo of the bullets in the sunlight. This is a bowl of my bullets taken under a white LED shop light.
Ed

261221

Hi,
Okay, sun came out and I took a pic in the sunlight. Still green/blue, not the deep midnight blue as Ausglock's samples.) BTW, I checked the picture I provided in an earlier post, that too was taken outside in the sun.
Ed

261224

[lablover]

Do you guys do a smash test and acetone test after every coat? I have been but feel like I don’t need to...may have read that someplace.....

I’m getting good at this coating stuff... lol

Also, would I notice any accuracy differences with a batch coated twice and another coated 3 times? The 3 coats was done in my initial coatings try’s and now finding I’ve got it down pretty good that 2 coats is all I need. Pardini .32 target pistol

[RydForLyf]

Do you guys do a smash test and acetone test after every coat? I have been but feel like I don’t need to...may have read that someplace.....

I’m getting good at this coating stuff... lol

Not since getting comfortable with color and bake.

[Ausglock]

I only wipe smash about every 5000 or so.
I found no difference in accuracy or barrel cleanliness with 2 or 3 coats. 3 coats is a waste of coating and time for handgun bullets.

[Tazza]

I did it to start with, but don't check any more. You kinda get used to the smell when baking to know they hit the right temperature. Different colours i had to check just to be sure, but once i have my times, temperatures and qty of projectiles i put in the oven, it's the same every time, so no need to do the tests.

I do 3 coats just for looks, if i had no lube groove moulds, they would look awesome after 2 coats, just like Ausglock.

[lablover]

Thanks gents. I also did 3 coats just for looks but moving forward 2 coats is gonna be the ticket

[lablover]

Question. I assume the best time to coat is right after casting...I’ve done this and it works great as the bullets are clean. I have been sizing then I Swage my bullets after coating and am having some coating flake off all the sharps corners on the bullet. This only happens when I Swage the bullets. It’s fine if I just size. All my bullets pass the wipe and smash test. I’m wondering if the Swage process adds a bit too much stress to the coating?

I could Swage before coating but fear I’ll add some type of contamination to the raw bullet

Should I just shoot em and not worry about it?

I use aqua lube to size and Swage. It’s Hitek a brand lube

[kevin c]

I believe Joe himself has advised against sizing before coating because the sized surface doesn't bind the coating as well. I'd guess that'd apply to swaging too.

I've seen a very slight loss of coating on well cured boolits that I've pulled after loading for various reasons. I assume it has happened on other rounds I've loaded and shot, but haven't seen any leading in my polygonally rifled barrels. My guess is that so long as there's a good fit to the bore, adequate alloy hardness, and reasonable velocities, so long as most of the bearing surface is coated properly, I'm OK. YMMV.

[Ausglock]

You can do 1 coat, size, and then do another coat.
This allows the first coat to bond to the lead.
after that the second coat bonds to the first.
Not sure about swaging.
What is the start dia and the final dia?

Also...did a test on the weekend.
All my test coating is done with MEK, not Acetone.
So, I made a mix of TRUBLU with acetone to see if there was any difference in colour.
End result was exactly the same as with MEK.
The TRUBLU colour was identical.
this rules out any issues with using MEK or acetone.
The acetone was a shorter swirl time (15 seconds) MEK swirl time is around 25 seconds.

[lablover]

You can do 1 coat, size, and them do another coat.
This allows the first coat to bond to the lead.
after that the second coat bonds to the first.
Not sure about swaging.
What is the start dia and the final dia?

Also...did a test on the weekend.
All my test coating is done with MEK, not Acetone.
So, I made a mix of TRUBLU with acetone to see if there was any difference in colour.
End result was exactly the same as with MEK.
The TRUBLU colour was identical.
this rules out any issues with using MEK or acetone.
The acetone was a shorter swirl time (15 seconds) MEK swirl time is around 25 seconds.

I’ll give that a try. They fall out of the mold at .314 I size to .312 then Swage back up to .314. Kind of a klunky process but until I get a mold that will drop them out smaller than the Swage press needs I’m stuck with this process.

[Ausglock]

Thumping them back up 2 thou to .314 should not cause the coating to come off.

[flybyjohn]

Haven't coated for quite some time but just ran out of bullets so have to cast and coat again. I want to upgrade my oven. It is a black and decker 120v 1500 watt convection toaster oven. When I first started coating with hitek, I took apart the oven and wired it up to be controlled by a PID and wired the convection fan separate so it can run full time. I thought I had it working ok but trying to get consistency between the loads is not so good. The oven has a bulged out part in the back that has nice radius edges on the back wall, I think it was so you could get a pizza in it. Anyway, my idea is to put in a better convection fan in the center back of the oven with a plate in front of it that will be about 2/3 to 3/4 of the area of the back wall. The fan would suck air in through a hole in the center of the plate and blow it out radially, the air would circulate around the top, sides, and bottom walls of the oven (blowing over the 2 heating elements on the tops and bottom and then returning to the center to get sucked back in to the fan again. Not sure how many dead spaces there would be with this setup but willing to give it a try.

Now for the important question. The oven was built with so many dead air spaces on the sides and top and vents to let the air out all around it. I want to create a better, more constant temperature so that there is less of a temperature swing when loading and unloading bullets. I have heard that more permanent mass in the oven will help with this and if I insulate the air space between the inside oven wall and outside wall, it should be able to keep the mass i add inside the oven more constant. I have some ceramic fiber blanket insulation that I can use between the walls of the oven but I am not sure the best option of material to use for the inside mass of the oven.

Things available to me are ceramic tile, steel plate (rather not since its so heavy), or I can make some custom sized clay tiles and fire them at the local pottery place (I am a member). I have some leftover granite tiles also. what would be the best medium?

Now if this all doesn't sound like it is going to work, I have two boxes of used insulated fire brick that I was planing on making a heat treat oven with. I think I have enough for two ovens. the only problem with the fire brick is that with a high speed convection fan, it might blow a lot of dust around ( the kind you don't want to breath).

So what are your guys thoughts on making a good efficient Hitek oven for the occasional 2 - 3 times a year caster. Just to put it out there, I dont' have the room for a full size oven so that would not be an option, I do however have a 230 volt 30 amp outlet available that I use for my welder and lead pot.

Thanks for any suggestions you all might have.

[Ausglock]

The small convection benchtop oven can be improved.
1. Tear it down
2. Seal all the gaps of the oven compartment with silicone sealant.
3. Remove the convection fan and put more pitch on the fan blades. this improves air flow.
4. Place a clay paver block on the bottom of the oven.
5. Insulate the exterior of the oven compartment with rockwool or similar.
6. install PID control (you already have this).
Don't use the timer on the oven. get a digi timer (or stopwatch) from ebay etc.
I built one with a flasher/buzzer that alerts me when time is up. it is really annoying if you don't press the reset button...lol

Edit:
These small oven can have issues with wire connectors burning off where one heat element links to the next. this will cause heating failure.
When the oven is heating up, I visually check that all top and bottom elements are glowing red before baking anything. I have had to replace connectors a few times over the years.

[flybyjohn]

Thanks Ausglock. I’ll make those upgrades and see how it does.

[flybyjohn]

I bent the fan blades with more pitch and still did not have as much airflow as I was hoping for. So I went ahead and took the motor off made another fan blade from an old license plate that is half an inch larger in diameter and mounted the motor in the center of the back of the oven. I took the bottom crumb tray out of the oven and cut a plate with a hole in the center to go in front of the fan and direct the air coming out of the fan along the sides, top, and bottom of the oven. If I need more airflow I might need to get a bigger fan as this one is a very low amperage motor. All I have left to do is to make a silicone seal around the door glass. And possibly insulate the glass itself as it seemed to heat up very quickly when I tested it. The oven heats up a lot quicker now than it did before and I believe that after it is fully preheated the granite tile in the bottom should keep it at a steady temperature. I was quite surprised that the paper pattern on the fan blade did not come unglued on the first pre-heat cycle. That 3m spray adhesive is something else.

http://i.imgur.com/GbJshTD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/W3p1sHJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VaZTbNP.jpg

[Stephen Cohen]

I'm wondering at what point does a fan become to big or circulate too much air, am I right to think that the job of the fan is just to circulate hot air around the bullets and not turn oven into pressure vessal. Most bench top ovens mine included have vents for hot air to escape, I assume that is for air around the oven internals to escape, just wondering if bigger fan has a down side. Electronics is not my strong point but since I want a new oven I may try the mods Ausglock recommends and find out how much improvement I get, even though I am happy with what I have, a little more can't hurt. Regards Stephen

[flybyjohn]

My thought is that as long as the hot air can’t escape, it would be hard to give it too much air and as long as the air is just being recirculated and no new air is added, it just makes the air around the bullets more uniform and heats the coating faster.

Now I don’t know enough about thermodynamics or oven design to steer anybody in the direction I headed but it just seamed to make sense to me.

[flybyjohn]

In my oven, the side with the controls has the wires. The other side has a hard non insulated wire connecting the elements to each other so no wires to melt the insulation off. Since I got rid of everything but the on off switch on the control side ( the PID is in a separate box) and only insulated one inch thick, the wires are still in open air and can keep cool ( I hope). I will have to test a batch of bullets to see how it goes. Not sure what the longevity of the oven will be now that it is all insulated but time will tell.

[Stephen Cohen]

flybyjohn, You may well be right and I am over thinking things, I guess if it works don't fix it. We can't deny the results Ausglock gets so I am inclined to agree with him as well. Regards Stephen

[Arlin]

Gentlemen:

I'm having an issue sizing Hy-Tec coated bullets. I ran several batches last winter with no problems resizing. Today bullets get stuck in Star die. I cast 356 9mm, with two coats of Hy-Tec. Let dry approximately 15 min then bake in toaster oven @400 degrees (12 min), take out, let cool then recoat again. Rebake for 12 more minutes, let cool then try to size. What do you think is happening?

[Ausglock]

Gentlemen:

I'm having an issue sizing Hy-Tec coated bullets. I ran several batches last winter with no problems resizing. Today bullets get stuck in Star die. I cast 356 9mm, with two coats of Hy-Tec. Let dry approximately 15 min then bake in toaster oven @400 degrees (12 min), take out, let cool then recoat again. Rebake for 12 more minutes, let cool then try to size. What do you think is happening?

Is the coating coming off the bullets or are they just really hard to pass through the sizer die?
If hard to size only, get some Aqualube sizing lube.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Aqualube will certainly help your sizing efforts. Are you trying to push two bullets thru your sizing die? Magma makes a relieved die and a short die, both should allow a bullet to pass thru on a single stroke of the handle. Lathesmith here the forum also makes a short die. The leverage on a star machine is not all that great. The short die and aqualube are your friend.

[Ausglock]

Lathesmith's short dies are brilliant. Only sizer dies I use.
Run them in the Magma Size master.

[ioon44]

I had Lathesmith build me a punch long enough to push a bullet all the way through a regular die and the Aqualube makes it easy , this was a lot cheaper than buying more dies.
If I was going buy another die I would buy the short die.

[flybyjohn]

Well good news, My insulated oven will get up to 655 degrees in less than 20 minutes. I use the same pid box for the oven as I do for the smelting pot and forgot to hit the set button after changing it to 185 deg. So in 20 minutes I went out in the garage and found the oven heated up to 655 deg. Talk about a self cleaning oven. Pretty good for a toaster oven. Well it still works and it doesn't look like anything burnt out. The convection fan is still chugging along and after a little oil, it purrs like a kitten. Good thing the bullets were not in there. I would have had a mess.

[flybyjohn]

https://i.imgur.com/OxgVYFr.jpg

Tested two batches of bullets today. I am having problems with the zombie green. I got real good results last year but this year it seams to be clumping. The candy apple red turned out good.

The picture shows the red and clumpy green from today and the smooth green from last year.

The oven heats the bullets very quick and the green passes the wipe and smash test after 9 minutes with 4.25 lbs of bullets. The red gets brown at 9 minutes so I dropped it to 7 minutes and it passes wipe and smash test. I have the pid set at 393 deg f and after loading room temperature bullets it drops to 345 and is back to 403deg in 3 minutes measuring air temp 0.5 inches below the bullet tray. From 403 it slowly makes its way to 398 by the time I pull the tray out in 7 to 9 minutes.

So several things I need to figure out. Should I lower the oven temp so I can get a whole 10-12 minutes bake time or if the bullets pass the tests is the temp ok? Also why is the zombie green clumping and not green? I see clumping from the second coat on and it gets worse with every coat. The first coat looks pretty smooth coming out of the oven. Maybe my trays are causing it.

The mix I used today was 3 hour old 10 grams powder to 55 ml acetone. Shaken well during the three hour wait. 1st coat was 3.5 ml mix shaken during syringe draw to 4.25 lbs bullets. Second to 4th coat was 4.5 then 5ml mix to 4.25 lb bullets.

Well any help or pointers would be appreciated. I had good results last year, just don’t know what’s going on this year.

[Ausglock]

Even the red ones are rough surface. I'd say swirling too long.............
Try dumping them wet...

[flybyjohn]

I am dumping them at 7-10 seconds after putting the mix in the container. It is only 58 deg f in my garage so it is not overly hot. There is mix that is pouring out with the bullets that drips onto the floor when I dump so I think they are wet enough when dumped. I think that when I shake them on the tray to separate them right after dumping, the chunks appear. Maybe I need a bigger dump tray so the bullets can stay right where they land until dry. Right now I am dumping about 4-4.5lbs of bullets onto a 8"x10" hardware cloth tray. I will try a larger dump screen and see if I can get them to dump separated more and not have to shake them apart until they dry.

Also, some of the bullets that stick together during baking, is it normal for them to pull a little chunk of Hitek off of one bullet when you pull them apart. I am not really concerned about it as it is just a little speck of lead showing but just wanted to make sure it was not a bonding issue.

[HI-TEK]

I am dumping them at 7-10 seconds after putting the mix in the container. It is only 58 deg f in my garage so it is not overly hot. There is mix that is pouring out with the bullets that drips onto the floor when I dump so I think they are wet enough when dumped. I think that when I shake them on the tray to separate them right after dumping, the chunks appear. Maybe I need a bigger dump tray so the bullets can stay right where they land until dry. Right now I am dumping about 4-4.5lbs of bullets onto a 8"x10" hardware cloth tray. I will try a larger dump screen and see if I can get them to dump separated more and not have to shake them apart until they dry.

Also, some of the bullets that stick together during baking, is it normal for them to pull a little chunk of Hitek off of one bullet when you pull them apart. I am not really concerned about it as it is just a little speck of lead showing but just wanted to make sure it was not a bonding issue.


From what you are describing, you seem to be using far too much coating mixture. If after shake coating, you have liquid remaining which drips off, there seems an excess coating mix present.
Coating in such cold area at 58F will slow down solvent drying off. The other indicator for over use of coating, is your description of coated cast sticking together. At no stage coated cast should stick together unless you have too much coating mixture or you are using a brew that is far too strong.
Please have a look at your situation and advise.

[flybyjohn]

Solution is 10 grams coating to 55 ml of acetone. First coat is 3.5 ml of solution to 4.25 lbs of bullets for this batch. I upped it to 4.5 ml for the second coat and 4.5 to 5 ml for third and forth coat. The red didn’t really get a solid color until the 4th coat. It was splotchy up until then. The zombie green started clumping on the second coat, and always was golden not green.

The same powder last year was green and turned out great. Only thing I did between now and then is shook op the powder in the canister before mixing it.

[Ausglock]

I'd also say too much solution per lot.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=flybyjohn;4902583] The zombie green started clumping on the second coat, and always was golden not green.

Just wanted a clarification on your above comment. After first coat was done , dried, what was next thing you did?
From above, with applying second coat, where it started to clump, there are two possibilities why clumping has happened.
1. First coat was not baked before applying second coat.
2. First coat was not baked enough after first coat, and applying a second coat, simply acted like a paint stripper, which caused lumpy finish. Until each coat is fully cured, solvents or re-coating will start to re-dissolve the previous coating.
Please give us some more details, so we can identify causes better.

[Gremlin460]

1. Gun shops are open again tommorow!!
2.I bought another bobcat.
3.Picked up 3 20L drums of automotive WW.
4.Did I say I bought another bobcat?

Cheers.. be safe.

[Ausglock]

1. Gun shops are open again tommorow!!
2.I bought another bobcat.
3.Picked up 3 20L drums of automotive WW.
4.Did I say I bought another bobcat?


Cheers.. be safe.
Always wanted a Bobcat with a 4 in 1.

[HI-TEK]

Always wanted a Bobcat with a 4 in 1.


I have one, a Toyota with 4 way bucket. I got well and truly scammed by seller.
It looked like new, low hours on clock, no oil leaks every thing seemed to work OK, and, after about 5-6 hours of work, I noticed that bucket seemed to swing from side to side excessively.
Close examination revealed, that the mongrel who I purchased the machine from, bogged up all the stress cracks, and painted over all of it. With small amount of work, the bog all cracked and revealed the problems.
I spent many hours welding. Then about 12 hours work, the bucket after being raised, would not lower down to ground level. I found out from a Toyota mechanic, that seller bodgied up one Hydraulic cylinder, and oil was bypassing oil seals at opposing forces to the other side, so bucket would not lower down.
Mate, I don't normally curse, but you could have heard me a mile away. Spent quite a few buck, and purchased new cylinders.. Then, high pressure fuel line cracked spraying diesel over engine. Then oil leaks developed with couplings. Radiator leaked and had to be replaced, then exhaust broke as muffler was fixed hard, as previous owner removed all flexible joints from exhaust pipe.
I will never ever buy a second hand machine. I cant afford a new one, but I also need one badly.
My choice now would be a backhoe, with a 4 way bucket. (new one).

[flybyjohn]

[QUOTE=flybyjohn;4902583] The zombie green started clumping on the second coat, and always was golden not green.

Just wanted a clarification on your above comment. After first coat was done , dried, what was next thing you did?
From above, with applying second coat, where it started to clump, there are two possibilities why clumping has happened.
1. First coat was not baked before applying second coat.
2. First coat was not baked enough after first coat, and applying a second coat, simply acted like a paint stripper, which caused lumpy finish. Until each coat is fully cured, solvents or re-coating will start to re-dissolve the previous coating.
Please give us some more details, so we can identify causes better.

Ok, after 1st coat was dried, it went into a preheated, well insulated, modified convection oven set with PID at 393 deg F. The oven fell to 345 deg F in the first 30 seconds The oven then raised to 402 deg F air temperature measured 1/2" below the bullet tray at the 3 minute mark from placing them into the oven. The oven air temperature slowly dropped from this point to where it hit about 395 deg F by the 10 minute mark. I had the timer set for 12 minutes but after 10 minutes, the bullets were starting to turn gold to brown. So I pulled them out of the oven at the 10 minute mark. I let cool on a rack and then tried the wipe test and nothing wiped off the bullet. I even soaked one bullet in a cup of acetone and then wiped it and it was still coated. I then placed one on a white piece of paper and smashed it with a hammer. It passed the smash test. I then dumped them into my mix bucket and added 4.5 ml of shaken well solution drawn from solution container with a syringe, and began shaking/ swirlying, at about 8-10 seconds, I dumped them onto a hardware cloth (1/4" metal screen) 8"x10" tray. They were definitely wet. They all landed in a pile so I picked up the screen and shook it to separate them and as they rolled, they seam to pick up rough spots. My fingers from the bottom of the tray did get a little green. I then placed them on top of the oven for 30 minutes to dry again before repeating the above process for two more times.

I use the same galvanized steel hardware cloth screens for the cooking and dumping, so a possibility that might be happening is after cooking, when I dump them into the mixing container from the cooking screen, cooked coating might be chipping off the screens and into the coating bucket. The screens do flex some as I dump the bullet into the coating bucket. Crusties in the mixing container would definitely adhere to the bullets during the shake. The bullets hitting each other during the shake would definitely knock more crusties off the bullets into the wet mix compounding the chunks. Not sure if this is happening but I will investigate.

I need to cast a few more bullets to try another batch today and see if I can get different results.

[smlekid]

I wash out my mixing container between coatings I use a cut in half aluminium can to recycle my acetone I use to clean out the mixing container
If I understand what your saying by not cleaning your swirling bucket your coating (which is still in the bucket from previous coats) is getting reintroduced when you coat a batch this will both thicken your coating and cause it to flash off faster giving you the finish your boolits show
I also clean off my trays with a rag soaked in acetone

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=flybyjohn;4903241][QUOTE=HI-TEK;4902953]

Ok, after 1st coat was dried, it went into a preheated, well insulated, modified convection oven set with PID at 393 deg F. The oven fell to 345 deg F in the first 30 seconds The oven then raised to 402 deg F air temperature measured 1/2" below the bullet tray at the 3 minute mark from placing them into the oven. The oven air temperature slowly dropped from this point to where it hit about 395 deg F by the 10 minute mark. I had the timer set for 12 minutes but after 10 minutes, the bullets were starting to turn gold to brown. So I pulled them out of the oven at the 10 minute mark.

Just a couple of things that may make things better.
Set your PID to 360F.
The coated cast must get to 356F and stay there for another 2 minutes.
Setting your PID to 360F will allow things to get to correct cure conditions, and this should not over bake coatings to make them golden tan at the 10 minute mark..
You really need to monitor the coated cast temperature and not oven temperatures.
An Infra Red thermometer sold on Ebay is ideal, as you can open oven door, aim at coated cast, and instantly will tell you load temperatures.
You can then work out how long a certain load will take to get to correct cure temperatures, (356F), and remain correct colour and cure adequately.
Please advise afterwards

[Ausglock]

I run separate coating trays to baking trays.
The coating trays get scraped with a razor blade scraper between every 3rd coating cycle to remove buildup.
Baking trays never need cleaning.
I use perforated stainless steel plate for trays.

In the picture, you can see the 4 top trays are clean and dark. they are baking trays.
the ones below are coating trays, thay are lighter and you can see green coating
on the mesh.
https://i.imgur.com/Z3o4Re0.jpg

[flybyjohn]

I do have an inferred thermometer but I get pretty different temperatures on items of different color and texture that I didn’t think that it would be accurate enough for the bullet bake. For instance I have a galvanized pipe and a black steel pipe running the same air from my batch rocket stove and they show up to a 40 degree difference from each other. The shinny things always read cooler even though that pipe is closer to the fire. With bullets of different color will the thermometer read the same. I’ll have to try it out.

[flybyjohn]

for some reason I thought the temp had to get to 200 deg c that’s why I had the oven set to 393 deg f. But since it only has to get to 180 deg c then I will try the lower temp and see how things work out. Thank you for your suggestions guys.

[Tazza]

I have bought and sold many a bobcat over the years, only ever messed with real bobcat branded ones, i never sold a machine that was bodged, i always told the buyer that if you have issues to let me know and i'll help out, i never said i'd do it for free, but i' help. Had a guy i sold one to in kilkoy, i went out and sorted it or him at no cost, was an excuse for a day out, and he and his wife were were very firendly, caught up a few times over the years.

[Gremlin460]

Always wanted a Bobcat with a 4 in 1.

Thats what I got, the huge BHB 4tonner with a 4in1.

[Ausglock]

Thats what I got, the huge BHB 4tonner with a 4in1.


BHB???
Our yard crane is a Chaimberlian tractor with a BHB Crane conversion done in WA back in the 70's. Called a Mobilift crane 3 to 6 ton.

[Mozz]

The small convection benchtop oven can be improved.
1. Tear it down
2. Seal all the gaps of the oven compartment with silicone sealant.
3. Remove the convection fan and put more pitch on the fan blades. this improves air flow.
4. Place a clay paver block on the bottom of the oven.
5. Insulate the exterior of the oven compartment with rockwool or similar.
6. install PID control (you already have this).
Don't use the timer on the oven. get a digi timer (or stopwatch) from ebay etc.
I built one with a flasher/buzzer that alerts me when time is up. it is really annoying if you don't press the reset button...lol

Edit:
These small oven can have issues with wire connectors burning off where one heat element links to the next. this will cause heating failure.
When the oven is heating up, I visually check that all top and bottom elements are glowing red before baking anything. I have had to replace connectors a few times over the years.

Just getting back into this casting/coating game,
I am assuming that the fan 'moves' the hot air around and ideally not introduce new (cooler) air.?

Mozz

[Ausglock]

That is correct.

However, when I open the oven to rotate the tray of bullets 90degrees and re-insert it, there is cooler air entering.
But the radiant heat in the oven makes temp recovery a short time thing.

[Tazza]

That is correct.

However, when I open the oven to rotate the tray of bullets 90degrees and re-insert it, there is cooler air entering.
But the radiant heat in the oven makes temp recovery a short time thing.

I'm wondering if i could wire a switch up to the door like a fridge has for the light to come on. So the fan goes off to help not blow hot air out, i'm sure it won't make much difference, but just another thing to play with.

[HI-TEK]

I'm wondering if i could wire a switch up to the door like a fridge has for the light to come on. So the fan goes off to help not blow hot air out, i'm sure it won't make much difference, but just another thing to play with.

Tazza, you can add a micro switch to the door that is directly wired to turn fan on and off. Selection of switch and wiring, it is important to make sure that heat does not affect them. Get a sparky to do electrical work.

[flybyjohn]

My fan is on a switch separate the elements so I just turn off the fan switch before I open the door. I have done it both ways and loose much less heat with fan off before opening the door.

[Ausglock]

My converted wall oven had the switch as standard equipment.

[sierra1911]

I'm still using the liquid Hi-Tek and had been frustrated in using a plastic baby medicine syringe to measure the coating. I talked with a friend who has a chemical analysis lab and he suggested using a glass pipette with a safety bulb instead of the syringe. High quality pipettes and safety bulbs are separate items - the safety bulb has a hard cone shaped end which is pressed against the end of the pipette to suck the liquid into the pipette. The safety bulb is then removed and a finger is placed over the end to release the liquid in a controlled manner using the graduations on the pipette. The small opening in the bottom of the pipette makes a controlled release possible.

I found lower quality pipettes on Amazon which came with bulbs without the hard plastic cones - the bulb stretches over the end of the pipette, creating a long eyedropper with measurement markings. The 10 ml size works perfectly for dispensing Hi-Tek onto my 8 lb. batches of boolits. Unlike the baby medicine syringes, the markings on the pipette do not wash off with acetone. A set of four pipettes with bulbs, 2 glass stirring rods, and a pipette cleaning brush was $12. Be sure to get 'drop' or 'release' pipettes as they're calibrated to include the tapered tip so that releasing all the liquid in the pipette releases the amount indicated on the scale (other pipettes are only accurate for measuring between to marked graduations on the scale).

I also acquired a couple 100 ml graduated cylinders from Amazon to measure the coating, catalyst, and acetone components when mixing the coating. The pair was $12 from Amazon.

Lastly, the lab friend recommended Nalgene brand HDPE (high density polyethylene) bottles for storing the Hi-Tek and for storing the acetone used to rinse the pipette. He shared that the Nalgene lids seal better than other brands he's used and will prevent evaporation of the acetone. The bottles are available from Amazon in sizes ranging from a couple of ounces to a quart. Search for 'Nalgene round bottle'. They're available in both a narrow and wide mouth version.

He recommended 2 rinse bottles, but I didn't see a need for a second rinse as the little bit of Hi-Tek left in the pipette after a single rinse doesn't adversely affect anything. When mixing a new batch of H-Tek, I use the acetone from the rinse bottle as it also doesn't affect the new batch and gives me the opportunity to start with clean acetone in the rinse bottle.

[Ausglock]

They must be cheapass syringes.
The one we use are 10ml with external markings.
Only time we throw them away is when the acetone has started to bulge the black rubber plunger.
That is after about a solid month of coating. and they don't get rinsed. just left in the tray till next coating session.
And the graduation lines don't rub off...

[Tazza]

I was thinking of a switch on the panel to turn it on and off, knowing my luck i'd forget to turn the rotten thing back on :)

I may need to look for a switch that can handle some heat, even if mounted externally out of the way it will get warm, good job for when i get around to hooking it up to a PID. A fan uses stuff all power, so it won't take much of a switch to be able to handle the current, heat may be an issue though.

I too use throw away syringes, i use them till the black rubber bit puffs up too much to allow me to suck up coating. When i'm done, i suck up acetone, jiggle it and squirt it out. Pull the plunger and wipe of with a rag and let it dry for next time. Lasts me quite a while like that. They are cheap as chips, so when they die, i have no issue reaching for a new one, i have a box of 100 of them, they will out last me.

[Ausglock]

Taz.
You can mount the switch external. use a lever limit switch.
About 1" square with a lever that has a roller on the end.
Let it ride against the edge of the door at the bottom. easy.

[sierra1911]

They must be cheapass syringes.
The one we use are 10ml with external markings.
Only time we throw them away is when the acetone has started to bulge the black rubber plunger.
That is after about a solid month of coating. and they don't get rinsed. just left in the tray till next coating session.
And the graduation lines don't rub off...

They were cheap syringes - free from a local pharmacy. If not rinsed at least every other tray, they would stick in the tube and sometimes even pull the rubber end off the plunger. Cheap glass pipettes require only one hand and are long enough to reach into can of catalyst.

I don't cast that much but did smelt and cast 175 lbs of range scrap into 5,000 45's the last couple weeks and will start on 38's tomorrow - target ammo was getting low.

[Tazza]

Taz.
You can mount the switch external. use a lever limit switch.
About 1" square with a lever that has a roller on the end.
Let it ride against the edge of the door at the bottom. easy.

I like this idea, i think i'll give it a go when time allows, at the bottom is a good idea, out of the way and easier access to the wiring, nothing hanging outside to give you a little tickle if you brush up against it.

I do have a butt load of micro switches from old micro wave ovens, i collect all sorts of "crap", i can hook up the the NO contacts so a tab on the door closes the switch when the door is closed, when it opens, it lets go of the switch, opening the circuit.

[Ausglock]

Sounds like a solid idea..

[kevin c]

For those in the US, TAP plastics has HDPE bottles in various sizes that work well as HiTek storage containers. Just be sure to buy the right caps that don't have a glued in paper liner. They also sell tubing that can go on the end of syringes, making it easier to suck the mix out of the bottle.

I use hospital grade syringes. They hold up well.

[Burnt Fingers]

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000P9Z21I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I use these bottles to store my mixed Hi-Tek.

They work like a champ.

[Rgmcfarland]

I use small and large mason/ball containers. Glass lasts forever and the seal lids are cheap when the seal starts to come apart. $5 isn’t bad for the nalgene above but as long as the wife doesn’t open my coating cabinet I’m running on her subsidizing my habit :-)

[RedlegEd]

Hi all,
Before this cootie madness, I'd just buy a small 70% rubbing alcohol bottles at Walmart for $0.98, then use the bottle (which is HDPE.) It has a flip top with squirt hole and works perfectly. Unfortunately, now that everyone is in a freak-out hoarder mode, you can't get the alcohol bottles anymore. The problem with glass jars is having mixing balls/bullets in there. I'd be a little leery of mixing too vigorously for fear of breaking the jar.
Ed

[Papercidal]

I use the cheap 6ml oral syringes from the feed store and they will outlast a can of the powdered coating, the bonus of using the 6ml size is you don’t need to read the graduations you just suck up a full syringe and it is the perfect amount for a 5# batch (I use 120-150ml acetone depending on color so a little extra liquid spreads things out a bit more for the same amount of coating).

I use pint size mason jars to mix and store coatings they are cheap and the seals can be replaced even cheaper.

[HI-TEK]

I received this link to a video from South African manufacturer. I hope it can be viewed by members.
It shows the TRUBLU coated casts. They look simply great.
https://www.facebook.com/riazj/videos/10214004712472252/?t=1

[RedlegEd]

Hi. Sorry, the link doesn't work for me.
Ed

[HI-TEK]

I tried another link hope this works
https://www.facebook.com/396848107775529/videos/542723409746430/

Looks like link works but I cant get rid off other videos that should not be on there

[Burnt Fingers]

I use small and large mason/ball containers. Glass lasts forever and the seal lids are cheap when the seal starts to come apart. $5 isn’t bad for the nalgene above but as long as the wife doesn’t open my coating cabinet I’m running on her subsidizing my habit :-)

Glass containers and my casting/reloading area don't mix. As the arthritis in my hands gets worse I'm dropping more and more stuff.

[ioon44]

I have always used dish soap bottles for mixing and storing coating, they have snap on caps and are air tight which even after several month the coating is still good to go. I have always used measuring spoons, a 1 1/2 tea spoon measure will hold 7 ml of coating which I add to 5 lb to 5 1/2 lbs of bullets.
I guess I should get motivated and post some pics of some of my coated bullets.

[Mozz]

OK what am I doing wrong,

2kg of bullets, 10grams (CAR) mixed with 100 mils of Acetone.

Baked at 200 for 13 minutes. Oven has a PID and Fan and both seem to work well. Covering looks good.

Bullets fail the wipe test (within 10 seconds), seem to pass the smash test with no flaking.

The only thing I can think of is the temp drops by about 15C

Regards

Mozz

262803

Just did another batch this time starting the clock when the oven returned to temp, still failing the rub test... Does Hi-Tek go off, i've had this for 5 years?

[HI-TEK]

OK what am I doing wrong,

2kg of bullets, 10grams (CAR) mixed with 100 mils of Acetone.

Baked at 200 for 13 minutes. Oven has a PID and Fan and both seem to work well. Covering looks good.

Bullets fail the wipe test (within 10 seconds), seem to pass the smash test with no flaking.

The only thing I can think of is the temp drops by about 15C

Regards

Mozz

262803

Just did another batch this time starting the clock when the oven returned to temp, still failing the rub test... Does Hi-Tek go off, i've had this for 5 years?


Mozz do you have liquid or powder HI-TEK?
If it is liquid, it may have gone off after 5 years. Powders are reasonably stable.
As rule of thumb, solvent wipe off can be caused by not enough baking at correct temperatures.
After thorough drying, coated cast, must get to 180C and stay there or above for 2 more minutes afterwards.
That should cure coating so solvent will not remove it.
If you have a liquid version, I suspect it has gone off. May be you need to get a fresh lot.

[wlkjr]

I must be doing something wrong. I mix my powder and acetone in a cheap plastic condiment bottle from WalMart and use a shot glass with a scribe line to measure the solution. I also use a Black and Decker toaster oven. I don't have any of the issues or concerns that some of you are having. What am I doing wrong? Underthinging maybe? My process is working fine. Should I try to fix it?

[Mozz]

Mozz do you have liquid or powder HI-TEK?
If it is liquid, it may have gone off after 5 years. Powders are reasonably stable.
As rule of thumb, solvent wipe off can be caused by not enough baking at correct temperatures.
After thorough drying, coated cast, must get to 180C and stay there or above for 2 more minutes afterwards.
That should cure coating so solvent will not remove it.
If you have a liquid version, I suspect it has gone off. May be you need to get a fresh lot.

Thanks for your reply. Its powder Hi-Tek, it must not have dried properly, because its defiantly getting more than 2 minutes at 180C. I coated some more this time with Red Copper which did pass both tests so happier now. Will try the remaining CAR another time.

Red Copper, two coats pic below; I may add another coat to make the colour more solid.

262841

[HI-TEK]

Thanks for your reply. Its powder Hi-Tek, it must not have dried properly, because its defiantly getting more than 2 minutes at 180C. I coated some more this time with Red Copper which did pass both tests so happier now. Will try the remaining CAR another time.

Red Copper, two coats pic below; I may add another coat to make the colour more solid.

262841


Mozz,
I have already made many communications with you, stressing about importance of proper drying.
It is not clear, are you quoting 180C oven temperature or product temperatures?
Again I repeat, the coated cast has to get to 180C. After coated cast gets to 180C it needs to stay in oven about 2 minutes longer.
You have to monitor coated cast temperatures inside oven, and not oven temperatures.
Colours not being solid enough, with using Red Copper, the pre-mix mixture must be well mixed before using it to coat.
Based on your comments, it seems that you are not getting a well mixed mixture to coat. It is possible, that after mixing, you allow too much time to take out coating mixture, and the "solids" settle in the diluted mixture. This may be why you are not getting good coverage.
Two coats should be adequate.

[Ausglock]

I must be doing something wrong. I mix my powder and acetone in a cheap plastic condiment bottle from WalMart and use a shot glass with a scribe line to measure the solution. I also use a Black and Decker toaster oven. I don't have any of the issues or concerns that some of you are having. What am I doing wrong? Underthinging maybe? My process is working fine. Should I try to fix it?

Nooooo.... don't "Fix" it.

[Ausglock]

Mozz.
Why mix 10gms to 100mls???

This will explain why you " Add another coat to make the colour more solid."
20gms to 100mls give perfect coverage with 2 coats.

[Mozz]

Mozz,
I have already made many communications with you, stressing about importance of proper drying.
It is not clear, are you quoting 180C oven temperature or product temperatures?
Again I repeat, the coated cast has to get to 180C. After coated cast gets to 180C it needs to stay in oven about 2 minutes longer.
You have to monitor coated cast temperatures inside oven, and not oven temperatures.
Colours not being solid enough, with using Red Copper, the pre-mix mixture must be well mixed before using it to coat.
Based on your comments, it seems that you are not getting a well mixed mixture to coat. It is possible, that after mixing, you allow too much time to take out coating mixture, and the "solids" settle in the diluted mixture. This may be why you are not getting good coverage.
Two coats should be adequate.

So just to be clear I am sure that the coated cast bullets are reaching temperature, the oven is controlled by a PID and the thermal couple has a bullet screwed on the end of it. Once the oven has returned to temperature I start the clock.

As for the Red Copper mixing, I will check to make sure that what am doing insures a good mix.

[Mozz]

Mozz.
Why mix 10gms to 100mls???

This will explain why you " Add another coat to make the colour more solid."
20gms to 100mls give perfect coverage with 2 coats.

My mistake i've coated with a 10gms to 100mils mix, as I have only been coating 2kg of bullets at a time.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Mozz;4912093]So just to be clear I am sure that the coated cast bullets are reaching temperature, the oven is controlled by a PID and the thermal couple has a bullet screwed on the end of it. Once the oven has returned to temperature I start the clock.

Mozz
Can you please understand, it is not your oven temperature that is important.
Having PID controlling heat to warm air inside your oven, cannot guarantee that the load you placed into the oven is at same temperature as your PID setting.
The time of load inside oven, for a particular load when your oven is at the set temperature, is directly governed by rise of temperature of the coated cast load inside oven.

The fact that you start the clock when oven recovers to PID set heat temperature,
you are then assuming, that your load automatically is up to temperature, IT IS NOT.

I have posted a graph of oven temperature and load temperature on this blog previously. It clearly shows, that even when oven set temperature is reached, the load can be up to 20-25C below the actual oven temperature.
With time, the load temperature slowly climbs to correct cure temperature (180C) in about 8-10 minutes. (those times will depend and can vary with load and ovens capability)

You have not supplied any product temperature, for example, at 5 minutes in oven, 7 minutes in oven, and at 10 minutes in oven.
You keep on quoting oven temperature, without apparently knowing what is happening with your load in oven.
That is why, the solvent wipe test failed. You simply did not cure product enough as product did not get to correct curing conditions at when you decided to take the load out of the oven.