simple Hi-Tek coating

[leadman]

I have found temperature control in the oven is very important. I have the parts coming from China to make 2 more PID boxes to add to the one that I am shuttling between my casting pot and one oven. I use a DVOM to keep track of the temperature in one of my ovens but it requires me to watch it close. My other oven is a digital model that maintains temperature very well, cost me $4 at the Thrift store.
In my experiments with high velocity rifle loads I would reduce the temperature once it hit 375 degrees and the oven would take a couple minutes to lower to the 350 degrees I set the oven to. The coating had time to cure and passed the wipe, smash, and the shooting test.

My elk hunt was a bust so now I am going to continue my experiments with different alloys concerning the water quenching, heat treating, and ways to maintain the BHN after coating.
I did have a batch of alloy that I water quenched and it maintained most of the "free" BHN after coating but when I repeated the test I could not duplicate it.
I may buy some tin and antimony to mix with some pure lead that came from an acid tank used in a plating plant.

[kweidner]

Today's experiments with my new 41 mag 6" bbl gave pleasing results . Douglas premium my smith made for my dan wesson. This was shot with HT gold and yes I did redundant lube on my mag stuff. I use felix. Here are some three shot groups. 18 to 19gr of 2400 20 yds rested was the accuracy node. Seem to fly just a tinsy bit better with lube in the grooves too. I use no redundant lubes on my non magnum rounds. Heck call it insurance if you must. anyway here are the groups. 84310

[Gremlin460]

I definately pushed the limit on temp on these. I sized a hundred or so, 90% of them sized fine. the last percent I have a little flaking where the sprue plate left a fine ridge on the base of the boolit.

Not sure if these would leave lead in the bore, it is a ultra fine exposure on the corner of the base. The camera wont pick it up but I can see it with the naked eye. I will probably redo these.

Today was a realy busy day, I got the new sizing Die and Challenger Press but did not have time for the thermo-sensors. Hopefully tommorow I can get them and find out what the dial on the oven equates to in real temp inside the oven.

Am thinking I may go the route of coat, bake, size, coat, bake. That way I will not have the exposed base line after sizing.

Another thing I learnt , stop fondling the boolits. I am guilty of that, especially as I have only just started casting. Boxes of nice shiney boolits were too tempting not to touch. I think sweat,grease,oil from my hands may have contributed to a few flakey boolits.
So I will insert a swirl wash in acetone before coating aswell.
Sorry, they just looked so pretty!!!!

[Liberty'sSon]

Ahh, fondling Boolits. I think most of us here have that problem. Perhaps we should start the BFA support group. :bigsmyl2:

[Ausglock]

Grem.
You should have learnt long ago.....do not touch lead with bare hands!
I wear latex gloves whenever casting or coating.

Acetone pre-wash is not needed.
The small edge lead on the base of the 125gr rn does not cause any leading in my guns. I get the same thing. If it worries you, sure, coat bake size and re-coat.
This is why most of the commercial caster/coaters use bevel base bullets.
One way to stop the exposed lead at the base is to use HI-TEK super 5000 mold release or smoke the top of the mold and the underside of the sprue plate. Ensure the sprueplate bolt is tight and there is not a gap between the sprueplate and the mold top.

[Gremlin460]

Right-o... I fitted the thermocouple into the oven and turned the knob to 200c and walked away.

15 mins later the light on the oven went out saying it had reached temp, firing up the meter I bought with the thermo probe is showed 248/249c.

I opened the door and turned the temp control down and let the oven cool. Once cool closed door and slowly incremented the thermostat knob up till I got a steady 199/201C reading.

I turned the oven off at the plug, opened the door and let it go cold. Once cold I closed the door left all the controls as is and turned it on at the wall, it returned to 199/201C and the light went out.
It is now cycling between 190 and 201c which should be close enough.

The outside control says it has been set at 150C, so this oven's internal temp control is 45-50C out of whack.

Those boolits I coated were therefore cooked at near 250C for 10/11 mins. No wonder they went darker than expected. They got that hot the coating is actually flaking on a few boolits, although it could be due to oil on those that are flaking, see Prior post regarding my Fondle Fetish that I had.

These coated ones will now be recycled and the process redone at the correct temperature.

[HI-TEK]

Thanks for your update.
Goes to show, just how poor quality temperature controls are on these small ovens.
They are made to a price, and despite better & cheap controls being available, they are seldom used.
It seems that every one is different with ability to supply reliable temperatures as compared to knob settings.
Once it is known, where your setting should be, the rest is like falling off a log.
After you have done this a few hundred times, you will be able to easily pick out any variations as they occur by simply looking at finished colour, and then confirm with solvent and smash tests.
As I have said, as a first time user, without you being aware of your oven temperature problems you did very well.
Now, that your settings are established, you should be able to go into full production, and the only barrier now will be how fast you can cast, and coating is much faster than what you can cast.
You will be dreaming cast & coat, smash and wipe dreams.....lol...lol


Right-o... I fitted the thermocouple into the oven and turned the knob to 200c and walked away.

15 mins later the light on the oven went out saying it had reached temp, firing up the meter I bought with the thermo probe is showed 248/249c.

I opened the door and turned the temp control down and let the oven cool. Once cool closed door and slowly incremented the thermostat knob up till I got a steady 199/201C reading.

I turned the oven off at the plug, opened the door and let it go cold. Once cold I closed the door left all the controls as is and turned it on at the wall, it returned to 199/201C and the light went out.
It is now cycling between 190 and 201c which should be close enough.

The outside control says it has been set at 150C, so this oven's internal temp control is 45-50C out of whack.

Those boolits I coated were therefore cooked at near 250C for 10/11 mins. No wonder they went darker than expected. They got that hot the coating is actually flaking on a few boolits, although it could be due to oil on those that are flaking, see Prior post regarding my Fondle Fetish that I had.

These coated ones will now be recycled and the process redone at the correct temperature.

[gunoil]

Yea, get hi tek 5000 mold release. I did, love it on aluminum molds.

[Gremlin460]

Still get the occasional one with a "chip" or dot of coating missing, will this be a problem?

Also the violetx2 turns black when baked unless it needs /shorter/lower temp?? Does not hold its colour at all.

[Ausglock]

Still get the occasional one with a "chip" or dot of coating missing, will this be a problem?

Also the violetx2 turns black when baked unless it needs /shorter/lower temp?? Does not hold its colour at all.

The small chip dot will not matter.

What mix are you using? The voilet R-2X is a dark purple when 2 coats are baked. I used some a few days ago. Don't put it on too thick.
The red 1220/L is a lighter version of Violet R-2X

[jakec]

ive only been casting for 3 months and loading for 6. i read this whole thread twice and then decided to get some and try it. i called mr. donnie up and he said green or gold was easiest for a beginner so i got a liter of green. i love it! its easy to do and looks great. it was alot easier than i thought it would be. ill try to post some pics tonight. some of mine were cooked too long and ended up a little dark but still pass the wipe test and smash test so im gonna shoot them and see what happens. i had my buddy size them for me after two coats and he couldnt believe how much easier they were to size. he thought i had gave him some that were already sized they went so easy. no coating came off either. sizing from .359/.360 to .356.

[DirtyDusty]

I have been reading on this thread for a while off and on. I can't remember hearing if a process where bullets are heat treated before this process. Anyone done that?

[Ausglock]

I'd suggest that if you are trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear by heat treating a lesser alloy, then this coating process may not be for you. Due to the fact that heat is needed to cure the coating.

@ Jakec. Good job, Mate. It really is easy.

[btroj]

It isn't creating a silk purse from a sows ear, heat treating a bullet is a very good thing in many rifle calibers. It makes the bullet hard enough to give good accuracy but not so brittle as a high antimony alloy would be.

Handgun shooters don't run into this type of issue, velocity isn't high enough in many cases.

I got my coating in yesterday. I intend to see what I can get it to do in rifles and will mess with heat treating too.

I have no doubts about what it will do in handguns, none at all.

[gunoil]

A friend says he shoots 122gr in 380 pistol. Green coated.

What would be a good powder drop using bullseye? Light plinking load. I use cci primers.

[btroj]

http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p733/Btroj/image_zps80295099.jpg (http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/Btroj/media/image_zps80295099.jpg.html)

First coat, first go around. Red copper color. Is this a bit too light a coat? I am going on the understanding that 3 light coats are better than a couple heavy ones, at least at first.

Far easier to add more than to remove some.

This is before baking.

[btroj]

http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p733/Btroj/9E79203B-BF18-46EB-9A7C-22434854D269-5578-00000AE806307F3D_zpsc566a515.jpg (http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/Btroj/media/9E79203B-BF18-46EB-9A7C-22434854D269-5578-00000AE806307F3D_zpsc566a515.jpg.html)

This is after two coats, both baked fully. No color with acetone patch after either coat.

Too much? Not enough? Just right?

[popper]

Too early for Ausglock to answer. Looks like my green, both coats. I added a 3rd coat which really gets the color. Might I suggest doing ~ 100 at a time, shoot and see if it works OK, no leading. I shot ~ 100 yesterday 130 gr 9mm & WST, cleaned the lead out this morning. That was the last of my first batch of 300 or so. Passed all tests too. Got to load up my second batch & try. Still did pretty good @ 10yds, 6-8" from a 3" XDs, one handed.

[btroj]

I hope to shoot some next Tuesday. If my new 9 mm mould gets in tomorrow I will cast some of them and see how they do too.

This stuff is pretty easy to use. Acetone smell is jot nice but it dissipates fast enough.

[Ausglock]

Looks good to me.
What mix? 5-1-7?

SWC can be hard to get colour into the tight areas.
I found that 5-1-10 worked best for SWC 45 pills. you use more mix and it covers great, but you are still only using the same amount of colour and catalyst. just more acetone.

I'd throw another coat on and see how it looks.

[btroj]

I can do that.

I used 5-1-7.

Easy enough to make it a bit thinner and add another coat. They easily pass the hammer test. I sized a couple dozens and no peeling or flaking at all.

[Ausglock]

Good job.

Just make sure you shake the schit out of your mix immediately before coating the pills. The red/copper settles out pretty quick.

[btroj]

Yes it does. My bottles are easy to see thru and I am amazed at how fast it settles. I shake for a 20 count before each squirt.

It doesn't take much, does it? I started using a bit more as I went along. I figured that as long as it wasn't pooling in the bottom of the bucket it was OK.

[Love Life]

How clean was it?

[btroj]

So far, so good. The gun hasn't decided how clean yet. It will get back to you on that.

[Gateway Bullets]

How much coating are you mixing at a time? How soon after mixing are you using the coating?

This is what mine look like after 2 coatings
84672

[btroj]

I mixed the coating within a few hours of using it. I shook it for 20 seconds or so immediately before applying to the bullets. I added a couple small bullets to the mix bottle to help with mixing.
The bullets that look best are the ones I initially felt I had used too much on.

After the second cooking the majority look well coated and shoot able.

At this point it is a factor of learning what is enough and what is too much. I actually used too little on the first few I coated. I can see now that I was using too little and have a better handle on what I need to do.

I sized a few hundred to see how they shoot. The gun is the ultimate judge. I don't expect any issues.

[redrockant]

They look good, another coat will make the difference. As long as they smash and wipe test they will be fine. I found swc the hardest to get coating all over, but as long as the bearing surfaces are covered they will be fine. Will post some of mine when Joe sends me my reds

[Ausglock]

Gateway. What colours are they?
Gold, red/copper and black??

[Gremlin460]

That black is the same colour I have been getting with the purple (violetx2).
I have tried Vx2, at 5-1-7,5-1-8 and tommorow will try at 5-1-10. just cant seem to get the sweet spot on that one.
even tride a ultra ultra thin coating and it goes dark at 9min/201c. Not only is it going so dark I am clalling it black, its flakey when smashed.

May have to shelve that one for now, running out of time to experiment.

This is only my current experiance with Vx2, other may find it fine, but its elusive to me right now.

The 220l red is going great.
Might add a bit of the Vx2 to a small batch of red, that may bend the result towards purple.

PS HiTek asked me what qty I am using, for all my trial runs I weigh out 1/2kg of raw boolits. That way I dont have to remelt a lot when I stuff up. The raw weighs in at 134.2gn each .

[Ausglock]

Grem. Tomorrow I'll mix some violet r-2X and see if I can get it to go black. what catalyst you using?

[Gateway Bullets]

Gateway. What colours are they?
Gold, red/copper and black??

Yes sir

[35isit]

I haven't done any yet, but am ready to start. For those of us doing for ourselves, does it matter what color they actually turn? As long as all the tests are positive and it doesn't lead the barrel. I know some of you guys are testing for Hi-Tek and some are commercial casters. But for us regular guys we shouldn't be worried about color should we?

[Love Life]

Btroj- I coat mine a bit thicker with my 2 coats, but it's only because I like them to look Purdy.

[Gateway Bullets]

Btroj- I coat mine a bit thicker with my 2 coats, but it's only because I like them to look Purdy.

Ya gotta have em purdy to sell. If it looks like **** they won't buy it!

I use a 5-1-7 for the metallics and a 5-1-5/6 with the black. I mix the coating in 16oz batches for use the next day. I use 20-27 ml per 1500 or so. I bake at 400 for 10 minutes in a commercial convection oven (large pizza oven)

[gunoil]

I might be getting good, first coat! GREEN MEANIEES
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zpsf84418b6.jpg

[Ausglock]

Good job, Gunslick.

35isit. when you are coating for your own use, yeah. The colour isn't an issue, so long as the bullets perform to your satisfaction. This is what Gemlin needs to be aware of.
I have so many coloured coatings here that did not work in the colour dept. but work fine in the smash and wipe tests and shoot fine. they just look like schit.

If I was to be casting for my own use, I'd be using these coating for sure. If anyone wants them, come get them. Cause I'm going to be tipping them out as I am running out of storage room for all these coatings.

Trying to convince HI-TEK Joe to convert from a liquid concentrate to a dry concentrate that is easier to transport and store. also a simplified mixing procedure that is idiot proof. instead of a 3 part mix, you only have a pre-catalysed concentrate and just add acetone. Joe is ******** about cost of equipment, lack of time etc etc etc. But the bullet is everything and he is semi-retired, so he needs to put down the Jim Beam bottle, climb out of his lawn chair and get his act together.

Come on Joe...chop chop..

Today I'm firing the test rounds with the 3 experimental "superhard" resins. green, red/copper, Gold, FER, DDR, rose red, Red 1220/L No.1, Gold 1035 and Red/brown Metallic (I really like this one). 38 Super rounds in Kimber STII. 10 rounds for accuracy and 10 round over the chrono. Will see how the superhards go.

This will probably be the last lot of testing until the new year. Each christmas we cover the house in christmas lights. November is when I start unpacking, checking and installing them, So I am going to be a busy boy. I hate christmas lights, but the missus loves them. So to keep the peace, I do them under sufference. All the casting/coating gear will be packed away and the shed given a once over before the lights get unpacked.

Seeya.

[Love Life]

Just do like the rednecks do and leave the Christmas lights up all year.

[gunoil]

i love christmas, your a good man ausglock!

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/d50f42a6.jpg

Rock n Roll batches!

Flew up to west Kentucky, really cold at nite in dang tent. Sold that tent when i got home.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/019c6a7c.jpg

[Gremlin460]

Grem. Tomorrow I'll mix some violet r-2X and see if I can get it to go black. what catalyst you using?

Cat-2 Trev.

[Love Life]

For reference: 9 minutes and 15 seconds at 385 degrees is perfect for 38 special boolits. 170 gr LSWC and 158 gr WC come out perfect.

I do 12 minutes exactly for the 230 gr rn in 45 acp.

[HI-TEK]

Ya gotta have em purdy to sell. If it looks like **** they won't buy it!

I use a 5-1-7 for the metallics and a 5-1-5/6 with the black. I mix the coating in 16oz batches for use the next day. I use 20-27 ml per 1500 or so. I bake at 400 for 10 minutes in a commercial convection oven (large pizza oven)

Would really appreciate if you can post some shooting test results, such as guns used, loads, powder used, chrono speeds and accuracy and most importantly, gun cleanliness after you finished. Photos of targets would also be useful if you have any.

[leadman]

Hi-Tek, I cast up a bunch of the 22 cal. boolits out of linotype today to start the quest for accuracy with a reasonably high velocity. I have been thinking of adding a filler to the case just to see what happens. I do have some Cream of Wheat cereal that I use for fireforming so will try that first before popping for the Puff-Lon.
Has anyone tried a little moly in the top coat to see what happens? I realize that it is not needed for normal shooting but the factor of high velocity might require something in addition to the coating.

[HI-TEK]

Hi-Tek, I cast up a bunch of the 22 cal. boolits out of linotype today to start the quest for accuracy with a reasonably high velocity. I have been thinking of adding a filler to the case just to see what happens. I do have some Cream of Wheat cereal that I use for fireforming so will try that first before popping for the Puff-Lon.
Has anyone tried a little moly in the top coat to see what happens? I realize that it is not needed for normal shooting but the factor of high velocity might require something in addition to the coating.

Hi Leadman,
Dusting on Moly on last coat, may be very tricky, as coating dries very quick and you may not get even distribution/adhesion, ( and very dirty and contaminating)
Making surface "more slippery" may not be what is needed.
If you wish to get that "additional benefit" you can try the Extreme or 2-Extreme Catalysed coating as a topcoat. They seem both to work very well and not affected with high energy use applications.
For your experiments, you can ask Donnie if he can supply you small samples to play with.
I am sure he would be please to assist.
Just make sure that coating passes all tests including sizing before using them.
Somewhere in the posts, I recall someone using coated stuff in a 223. Cant recall how long ago it was done.
Which coloured coating are you using?
I would appreciate your test results when completed.
HI-TEK

[btroj]

Since I am not selling these I don't care too much how they look, I only care how they shoot!

I will be making a thinner mix next time to get better coverage on the SWC.

On the whole this is a simple process.

[dverna]

Hey btroj,

I got the impression you were looking at rifle bullets (.375 H&H???). Didn't gunoil coat coat some .375's for you?

Don Verna

[kbstenberg]

Ausglock what was the brand of Convection oven you recently got?

[HI-TEK]

I might be getting good, first coat! GREEN MEANIEES
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zpsf84418b6.jpg

Magnificent. You are now a professional.

[btroj]

Hey btroj,

I got the impression you were looking at rifle bullets (.375 H&H???). Didn't gunoil coat coat some .375's for you?

Don Verna

He did. They shot as well as traditional cast at 1750 fps. Trouble was at higher velocity but I was really pushing them, more in the 2350 fps range. I need to do more testing but expect they will do 1.5 to 2 inches all day long. Not great but for the rifle, I will take it. Good hunting load.

Trouble with velocities higher than that is the need to go with a higher Sb alloy to get the hardness needed. Water dropping is a waste, the heating anneals the bullets.

I have some ideas on ways to get some hardness back, just need to find time to try a few things. I want a lower Sb alloy for hunting, I don't want a brittle bullet.

I think the coating has a ton of potential, it just needs more testing at higher speeds in rifles.

[Liberty'sSon]

Hi-Tek, I cast up a bunch of the 22 cal. boolits out of linotype today to start the quest for accuracy with a reasonably high velocity. I have been thinking of adding a filler to the case just to see what happens. I do have some Cream of Wheat cereal that I use for fireforming so will try that first before popping for the Puff-Lon.
Has anyone tried a little moly in the top coat to see what happens? I realize that it is not needed for normal shooting but the factor of high velocity might require something in addition to the coating.

leadman, I realize it adds a step, but have you considered adding a wax based lube to the lube grooves of a Hi Tek coated 22 cal Boolit? If it worked that way without the gas check it would still be an overall time saver.

[Ausglock]

Ausglock what was the brand of Convection oven you recently got?

It is a Heller brand 48 litre. Works like a dream. I have bought a second one for a spare.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Ausglock;2437039]Good job, Gunslick.


Trying to convince HI-TEK Joe to convert from a liquid concentrate to a dry concentrate that is easier to transport and store. also a simplified mixing procedure that is idiot proof. instead of a 3 part mix, you only have a pre-catalysed concentrate and just add acetone. Joe is ******** about cost of equipment, lack of time etc etc etc. But the bullet is everything and he is semi-retired, so he needs to put down the Jim Beam bottle, climb out of his lawn chair and get his act together.

Come on Joe...chop chop..


Well, thinking about stopping my sipping Kentucky Bourbon, the thought not really appealing.

If I get motivated, and gets some stuff made for experimental purposes, and, it is not going to be evaluated for some time, I may as well relax, and sink back into my shady lawn chair and continue look at the wonderful world out there lol lol.

In all seriousness, you have a good idea Ausglock, but it is a lot of work, up front costs, and I dont know if such efforts can be justified.
After I set up, and then, it does not work out, I will be forced to go back, and sip more Kentucky fluid, to numb the hip pocket pain, (more costs, as Kentucky Bourbon is very expensive liquid gold)

Having said all that, I am going to make up some Powdered test products using harder Polymer, similar to what is being tested today from solvent borne coating systems.
Target colours will be, Pearl Gold, Red Brown, 1035 Gold, 122 Red, and 154 Red.
This should provide a spread of colours that can be tested to determine if the powdered coating system is a goer or not.

Having made up 35 plus solvent based coloured experimental coatings in last 6 months and majority working just fine, we still seem to have no real outlets or interest in products in commercial volumes.
Unfortunately, this is the way of the world today.

Most keen to hear back about the test results today.

[Ausglock]

Todays testing.
All fired from a Kimber Stainless Target II in 38 Super.
4.8gr AP-70N powder ( I think this is available in the USA as Hodgdon universal) with Magtech small pistol primers.
All were loaded on a Dillon RL550B with dillon dies.
Bullet was Lee 120gr Con sized to .356. All were cast from commercially mixed Bullet alloy (2,6,92) 15 BHN.
All were coated with 2 coats and then sized.
10 rounds of commercial cast bullets were fired first to "dirty" the barrel.
All were shot from a sandbag rest seated at a table with the dustcover of the gun resting on the bag.
All velocities are averaged over 10 rounds fired at 4 metres from shooting chrony.
a bore snake was pulled through the barrel between each string
Commercial cast 125gr FP: 1120fps. Accurate 38mm @ 20 metres
red/copper original resin: 1125fps. Accurate 38mm @ 20 metres
green resin 1: 1125fps. Accurate 36mm @ 20 metres
Red/copper resin 1: 1122fps. Accurate 34mm @ 20 metres
red 254 resin 1: 1124fps. Accurate 35mm @ 20 metres
Rose red resin1: 1123fps. Accurate 39mm @ 20 metres
green resin 2: 1129fps. Accurate 34mm @ 20 metres
red/copper resin 2: 1127fps. Accurate 35mm @ 20 metres
gold 1035 resin 3: 1126fps. Accurate 34mm @ 20 metres
red/brown resin 3: 1128fps. Accurate 36mm @ 20 metres

As can be seen, there is very little between all the colours and the different resins as far as accuracy or velocity goes.
The resin 2 did show smaller indentation than the others when the side of a bullet was placed in the lee hardness tester for indicative indentation testing.
The barrel was inspected between each string and it was shiny clean with little powder fouling. the bore snake had is shining again after 1 pull through.

I would be happy to use any of the experimental resins in my guns.

I am now going to load all these again in 38 Super Major powerfactor loads and run them through the SVI racegun and see how the resins hold up at 1400 fps + for power factor of 165-170.

The Dog Dick Red in resin 1 did not coat correctly. it went blotchy. It baked fine and passed the smash and wipe test, but it looked like red leopard spots, so it got re-melted.

After all these coating over the last few months, my personal favorites are:

Gold 1035, FER (red 254), Red 1220L/no.1 (maroon), Red/ brown, glitter bronze, blue green.
If I were to go commercial, I'd go for Gold 1035 and blue green (Green & Gold are the Australian colours) in the resin 2.

I did 3 coats of red/copper on a 125gr RN. 2 coats then size and 1 coat after sizing. These were loaded with the same powder etc etc etc, and fired after all the above were completed. Velocity was higher 1145fps and accuracy was the same 36mm @ 20 metres. I could feel that these were giving more Oomph.
So. there you have it, Boys N Girls. Pick your colour and go play.

[Gremlin460]

The Dog Dick Red in resin 1 did not coat correctly. it went blotchy. It baked fine and passed the smash and wipe test, but it looked like red leopard spots, so it got re-melted.



Pot Kettle Kettle pot :P

red 220l Is working fine for me, so I redid the Vx2 ones in that.
I coat once and do wipe/smash test, then size, then they get one or two more coats depending on how I feel.

Shortly I will run the gauntlet with Star-Track and order some gold and green from Joe.
As for the purple, well that's for when I have time to experiment more.

Now off for coffee and a rest, sizing 3000 in one sitting gets boring really really quickly.

[Ausglock]

Grem. yeah yeah.
If I was using it for myself, yep. I'd shoot it.
But I'm testing for commercial use. So it gets the flick.

[sparkz]

Just Ordered up a 1/2 L Kit in Copper Red, and spoke with Donny about how to get started, I have been lurking this tread for a while and Collected most of whats needed I hope, I have a old toaster oven and a thermometer and some SS hardware cloth for trays, so
Wish me some luck re-reading thu this hell-a-sush thread,, hahah almost need a 2nd thread so a guy can follow this material and its install,

Patrick

[leadman]

Hi-Tek, I was the shooter that got 3,465fps out of the 223 Rem, 45gr Lyman RN w/GC, 2 coats of Red Copper with E2 catalyst. I was thinking more of adding the moly to the last liquid top coat of Hi-Tek, just as an experiment. Donnie has been very good about supplying me with small quantities of the different products to test.

Liberty, I have already gotten the above velocity with the coated boolit and now want to work on the accuracy. I have shot this same boolit in excess of 3,000 fps with just a wax based lube so am not really interested in adding this to the experiment. What I am trying to do is match the accuracy (1/2 moa) that I get with the jacketed bullets with a Hi-Tek coated boolit. The test at 3,465 fps was with 1.8" group size at 100 yards.

[jmort]

"What I am trying to do is match the accuracy (1/2 moa) that I get with the jacketed bullets with a Hi-Tek coated boolit."


You could be the first, as far as I know, with any "boolit coating." A worthy endeavor.

[Liberty'sSon]

I guess I was hoping someone would be able to a reach 3000 plus without a gc and still have reasonable accuracy 1-2 moa. Gcs are a pain to deal with. It would be nice to be able to eliminate them.

[popper]

Leadman - that's about 40K psi vs the ~30K psi I've done with the green on 30/30. About 75% of the force on the base of the 30/30. Looks like I might get to 1800 fps with the red copper. BHN is still a problem.
Jmortimer - I'm working on 1/2 MOA in 308, get MOA regularly, with PC @ 2400+.

[Love Life]

Popper- You want me to coat some boolits with red/copper for you to test?

[popper]

Thanks for the offer LL. I have a bunch of testing to do before I get another mould for the 30/30 so I'll pass for now. Shot a bunch of my 308 CB sans check with the green in the 30/30 with MOA @ 50 so I have to decide if 165 or 180 works best. Plus loading a bunch and getting some tannerite for Thanksgiving in Ar with the family. Had a 3 dog nite (2 border collies & Syd) this weekend so I got lots of house cleaning to do today. And load up a couple hundred 9mm as daughter is getting her XDs back soon. I'm having a little leading at the muzzle with mine, green coated. Think my OAL is short or I did a lousy job of coating on my first try. Still scary accurate for a 3".
Rangefinder has a technique of flashing off the solvent which I think is making a hard skim surface to solve the rack drying problem with PC. Might help with the H-T. Also thinking of trying to overcoat with talc before drying. So much to do.

[leadman]

I thought I would have the time to do the testing now but just got back from the VA. I'm scheduled for surgery 11-7-13 for a tumor in my salivary gland between my left ear and jaw. They already did a biopsy and are 95% sure it isn't malignant. This will be surgery number 32.

I probably will be away from shooting a month or so at least because I shoot a rifle left handed, the side they have to cut on.
i do have some Contender and Encore barrels that I can set up as a pistol so might be able to shoot them sooner.

I do have some 22 cal 45gr Lyman heat treated lino boolits ready to coat so will do the two coat process on them.

[Ausglock]

best wishes for you recovery, Leadman.

[Liberty'sSon]

Speedy recovery Leadman.

[kbstenberg]

Has anyone used HT coating for rifle bullets fired from a short barrel contender?
The reason I asked. No one has said that they had tried the shorter barrels. An I was wondering if the barrel lenth was a posative or negative facter if HT works.

[leadman]

I have fired HT coated boolits in my 30-30AI 14" Contender. Same as shooting them in any other gun.

[Gremlin460]

New mold arrived , now I have to make more !!.. trying all the pin configs in the mold and will have pleanty to coat at the end of the week.

[zomby woof]

I'm updating my toaster oven. I'm going with a digital control, convection oven. I was looking at the Oster large, double rack oven. Is there any down side to a two rack oven? I like the fact of baking around 500 boolits at a time. Do you think that is too much mass in the oven for the coating to get up to temperature? Thanks

[Ausglock]

Depends on how good your oven is. If it has top and bottom heating elements and a very good circulation fan, then you may be able to do it. The only way to be sure is to try it.
My current oven has top and bottom elements with a great fan and I still only bake with 1 tray with 300 9mm bullets at a time. 40, 44 and 45 I only bake 200.
If you want to go larger, you would be better off with a travelling deck Pizza oven.

[kweidner]

I have that big oster. I am wanting to retrofit it with a PID. It is digital so.......Anyone got a clue as to what I will need? Temp swings are pretty wide. Just recently purchased a digital thermometer so I can monitor. Ausglock, didn't you install PID in yours?

[Ausglock]

I have that big oster. I am wanting to retrofit it with a PID. It is digital so.......Anyone got a clue as to what I will need? Temp swings are pretty wide. Just recently purchased a digital thermometer so I can monitor. Ausglock, didn't you install PID in yours?

I was going to fit one to my first smaller oven, But the Heller 48 Litre doesn't need it. The Heller is great as it is.

[popper]

kweidner I use one with my oven - works fantastic, it's the same one I use on the pot. I just connected the heating elements (bottom) to a plug and left the fan & timer on the regular plug. I have 3-4 CBs where I inset the probe, through a small hole in the side of the cabinet ( I took the cover off). Works for PC or H-T coating. I've only done 3-400 170 gr at a time. I have some FG insulation to cover it when colder weather gets here, I work in the unheated garage.

[leadman]

I have a large double rack oven but it takes too long to heat up with both racks loaded.
I have been using the PID off my pot on one oven but have parts coming on the slow boat from China to build 2 more. Should be here next week, I hope.

[kweidner]

what pid are you guys using? My oven is digital will that matter? I guess i could leave fan on current controls. If not i could make a switch. I guess a thermo couple and a PID would get it? Any suggestions?

[gunoil]

Bought a few black 122gr, yep! Steve was shootin em in his 380 so i did to, i like em. These must have #2 Or #4 cat on em,, their slick'er-n-wombat $zh@t.


http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zpsef11f7e9.jpg

[leadman]

I made my pid with parts I bought off e-bay. not that hard to do really. You could check the oven temperature with an oven thermometer or lead thermometer. I use a DVOM with a thermocouple I bought at Walmart. As long as the temperature in the oven matches the control setting and the swing is not too great you should be good.

[Ausglock]

Trying the superhard resin 2 in the SVI Racegun tomorrow.
Wish I have a rifle that I could test it in.

The red 1220/L is a very nice Maroon. The QLD State IPSC Standard Division team will be using my bullets in the Maroon. Maroon is the QLD colour.

[sierra1911]

I'm updating my toaster oven. I'm going with a digital control, convection oven. I was looking at the Oster large, double rack oven. Is there any down side to a two rack oven? I like the fact of baking around 500 boolits at a time. Do you think that is too much mass in the oven for the coating to get up to temperature? Thanks

I coated last weekend for the first time with the Oster large double rack convection oven. Even though digital, the thermostat was off by 25 degrees according to both an oven thermometer and my lead thermometer. I coated 7.5 pounds of 230 TL452-230-2R 45 ACP boolits (about 228 boolits) with 7.5ml of 5-1-10 and while they were drying, preheated the oven to 400F. I placed the oven thermometer in with the boolits since the oven's thermostat doesn't show the actual temperature, just the goal. After 5 minutes the thermometer indicated 300F. After 8 minutes the thermometer only indicated 350F. As the oven was cycling on and off quite a bit and the temperature was barely increasing, I turned the thermostat up to 475F and watched the thermometer closely. After a total of 13 minutes, the thermometer indicated 400F and I turned the thermostat back to 400F and took the boolits out 2 minutes later for a total bake time of 15 minutes! They passed the wipe and smash tests.

After a little experimenting my method became preheating the oven and keeping it at 400F for at least 10 minutes (based on the $5 Walmart thermometer) to ensure the oven walls were as hot as the circulating air. I then increased the thermostat to 450F and put the bullets in the oven. After 5-6 minutes the thermometer would indicate 400F and I'd turn the thermostat down to 400F and leave the boolits in for another 2-3 minutes to ensure the lead actually reached 400F. Setting the thermostat to 450F caused the oven to shorten the 'off' times in its cycling and reach the desired temperature more quickly.

This was all on a 70 degree day. I'm guessing that a higher thermostat setting will be necessary as the outside temperature drops to reach the desired 400F within a reasonable period of time. I may also add some insulation as the entire back of the oven is a single sheet of thin steel with absolutely no insulation and my airplane hangar where I am baking the boolits is not heated.

It might be possible to bake 2 trays of boolits at one time but I would imagine that the thermostat would have to be set as high as possible (475 in my case since the oven runs 25F higher than the displayed temp of 450).

Thank you Ausglock for all of the information and experimentation. Only with your sage advice did my first attempt at coating produce 1,140 golden boolits, some of which I will dispatch downrange tomorrow.

[btroj]

I am in the process of coating some 405 gr bullets for my 45-70. These shoot very well in my Marlin with traditional lube! I want to see what they do with the coating.

Some will get shot at 1350, a few at 1650. Will be interesting to see how they do. I am sure the lower velocity ones will be fine.

[Ausglock]

Thank you Ausglock for all of the information and experimentation. Only with your sage advice did my first attempt at coating produce 1,140 golden boolits, some of which I will dispatch downrange tomorrow.

No worries. Glad to help.

[leadman]

sierra1911, I have found that an oven temperature of 400 degrees is right on the edge of causing the coating to become brittle. I find 375 degrees works much better. This also will protect the coating from overheating if your oven decides to raise the temperature on its own, which has happened to me. This is why I am going to have PID controllers for my 3 ovens instead of just one like now. Parts are on the slow boat from Chine, literally. LOL.
Ausglock, I'll have to check with Donnie to see if he has some of the superhard resin as I shoot mostly rifles and have already done some testing.

[Ausglock]

Leadman. He wouldn't have any yet. It is still being tested.
I was going to test more today, But my eldest Son was taken to hospital with chest pains, so I took the wife for a quick trip to the hospital in Lismore. (About 2 hours from us).
So testing next Sunday...

[oley55]

picked up 1500 158gr .357 SWCs at a swap meet this weekend for a song and a dance. The boolets look fine but the lubing is anything but acceptable.

Can marginally lubed boolets be coated or are clean/fresh boolets required?

[btroj]

Degrease them well and they can be coated. Grease or wax prevent proper bonding of the coating to the bullet.

[Ausglock]

picked up 1500 158gr .357 SWCs at a swap meet this weekend for a song and a dance. The boolets look fine but the lubing is anything but acceptable.

Can marginally lubed boolets be coated or are clean/fresh boolets required?

I have tried a few times, but get inconsistent results.

[zomby woof]

I'd heat them up in your oven at lube melt temperature and melt off most of the lube. Then give them a good acetone bath, several times. I had good results doing this.

[Stephen Cohen]

I imagine a good boil in water would have near all lube float to top.

[Rylos]

Just received my order of red copper and black coating from Byron at Gateway Bullets and cant wait to get going! He was very helpful in guiding my through the process... Good guy! He also said he is having problems with his web site. So if you need something and the site is not working, email him. gatewaybullets@yahoo.com or call 636-629-5555

[leadman]

I have tried several times to remove the wax lube and coat with HT. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I tried many types of degreasers but was thinking that maybe after the boolits look clean just put them in the oven for 10 minutes at 375 degrees to burn off any remaining residue.

[HI-TEK]

I have tried several times to remove the wax lube and coat with HT. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I tried many types of degreasers but was thinking that maybe after the boolits look clean just put them in the oven for 10 minutes at 375 degrees to burn off any remaining residue.

Leadman
Mineral Turps probably is as good as you can get to dissolve the waxy type lubes and is cheap.
It is a simple case of soaking, and then drain and spray rinsing through a mesh to wash off any solvent/wax mixture is possibly best way to treat.
However, your efforts may be not worth the trouble.
I am thinking, that wax lubed cast projectiles had been already sized, and so the grainy surfaces are now polished smooth and without grainy surfaces being available, leaves very little surfaces for any coating to get a foothold and stick, as sizing process seals surfaces so it is very difficult to coat without grit blasting or some other way of roughening up surfaces first.
If you solvent wash and burn off residues, it will still leave very slick surface which is not ideal to coat.
Sorry, may be a remelt and recast may be easiest and cheapest option and save lots of headaches.

[Gateway Bullets]

Joe ya beat me to it!

[HI-TEK]

Joe ya beat me to it!

Sorry, next time I will wait a while lol.

Is your website up and running since your suppliers server has been hit?
I would really like to see what you have,

[Ausglock]

Sorry, next time I will wait a while lol.

Is your website up and running since your suppliers server has been hit?
I would really like to see what you have,

You haven't got time to surf around the net. get up to your shed and keep mixing coatings. Take your love potion with you.

I'm going to coat a few 100 with the blue/green superhard resin 2. size after the first coat and then apply a second coat to see how they shoot. I find 1 coating then sizing then 2nd coating works great on flat base bullets that may have a but of over-cast on the base.

[leadman]

Hi-Tek, I have given up on trying to clean the boolits of the wax lube then coating. I only have 2,000 or 3,000 left anyway so not a big deal to just remelt of shoot them as is.
The best sucess I had was when I used Purple Power soap as a final cleaner of the boolits. This is a very strong alkyl soap.
Is any of the Super Hard resin headed to the sates soon? I would like to try this in the rifles to see how it works.

[HI-TEK]

Hi-Tek, I have given up on trying to clean the boolits of the wax lube then coating. I only have 2,000 or 3,000 left anyway so not a big deal to just remelt of shoot them as is.
The best sucess I had was when I used Purple Power soap as a final cleaner of the boolits. This is a very strong alkyl soap.
Is any of the Super Hard resin headed to the sates soon? I would like to try this in the rifles to see how it works.

Leadman,
Please do not use any strong Alkali type cleaners with Lead or alloys.
It can react with Lead and alloys to start dissolve Lead into the Alkali, which is very unhealthy especially if you get it on your skin.

With super hard resins, we were testing coatings on 92:6:2 alloys.
We have sort of measured hardness of baked coatings against standard coatings. It was determined, and appeared, that the new trial resins were about 20% harder, as hardness tester had less penetration into alloy that was coated with the new test resins.
Smash test and solvent tests seem OK. I am awaiting test results with various guns, and am hoping to get results blogged.
It is hoped, that the additional hardness may help, with using with Cast alloys for some Rifle ammo.
Plans are under way to send some to the US, but even if we send today, it will take weeks by sea to get there.
It is a shame, that Rifle use here is not as prolific as in the US, as it would be much easier to get local tests done first, and then report results.

[Ausglock]

HI-TEK. I have a great Idea.
You buy me an Omark M44 308 target rifle ( a few available on www.usedguns.com.au) A Leupold 33x scope and rings and a 30 calibre mold and I'll do some rifle coating testing for ya....:kidding::bigsmyl2:

[HI-TEK]

HI-TEK. I have a great Idea.
You buy me an Omark M44 308 target rifle ( a few available on www.usedguns.com.au) A Leopold 33x scope and rings and a 30 calibre mold and I'll do some rifle coating testing for ya....:kidding::bigsmyl2:

Great Idea.
Where do I get a licence to buy such stuff???

Then, I would have every anti gun lobbyist on my case, and pester me no end, and I would have to spend more of my time in explaining why I want such a gun.

[Gateway Bullets]

Great Idea.
Where do I get a licence to buy such stuff???

Then, I would have every anti gun lobbyist on my case, and pester me no end, and I would have to spend more of my time in explaining why I want such a gun.

Did someone say Hi-Tek is buying guns for us to test his rifle coating? Where do I submit my request? Lol

[Ausglock]

send email to BourbonJoe@Im****facedallthetime.com.au
Attach a photo of a bottle of bourbon and the gun you want.

[kweidner]

Guys update on the oven situation. Buy a Breville. What a difference. You will only cry once. It has 5 elements and smart heating technolgy. It applies heat where it needs it at the level it needs it. I am getting consistent results with less than a 5 degree temp swing more like 3 through the entire cycle. The elements work like dimmers instead of just on or off. It handles a bigger load than my others too and will still maintain temp. My coating comes out more even, more shiny and the color is repeatable. This is repeatable every time unlike the cheaper ovens I was using. I will retrofit those with a PID at a later date. I am very close to having a 40 worked out that leads worse than anything I have ever owned. It takes a bit more coating in this particular gun but is showing signs of promise. 50-75 rounds and very light streaking yesterday but I have to keep in mind the alloy hadn't fully hardened. Yesterday it was a little over a 12. This am it was 16. If it won't lead in this gun it won't lead in any I bet. I am finding the poly barrels are actually easier on the coating than traditional. Moved to 5-1-7 too. Looks better on the bollits with a hard shoulder like swc and tc.

[Gremlin460]

I'm going to coat a few 100 with the blue/green superhard resin 2. size after the first coat and then apply a second coat to see how they shoot. I find 1 coating then sizing then 2nd coating works great on flat base bullets that may have a but of over-cast on the base.

Exactly the reason I do it that way aswell Trev..

Havent cast/coated or done anything with my stuff , because I am still sitting on a porch of a beach house up past Hervey Bay.
Will be back home in time to do the Saturday shoot this weekend and get back into casting/coating.

[Ausglock]

What model number is the breville? Do you gave a link for it?
Grem. You have no time for holidays.....get casting/coating!!!

[kweidner]

BOV800XL. here is the link. http://www.brevilleusa.com/the-smart-oven-r.html. got mine from Bed Bath and Beyond. Pricey but I love it so far. The elements do exactly as advertised. They sometimes even pulse to maintain temperature. When preheated, it takes about 6 minutes to get five pounds of alloy to 384f. Same thing with 2.5lbs. Will do a trial run shortly and see if 7.5 and 10 will do the same.

[Dystaxia]

Check out these beauties!!! Notice what's missing? Will coat with red copper and shoot this weekend; then post the results.

85801

[kweidner]

VERY NICE Dystaxia! What grain? I am assuming 9mm?

[Ausglock]

Nice. What bullet is it and who makes it?

[Dystaxia]

VERY NICE Dystaxia! What grain? I am assuming 9mm?

Nope, it's a 45 ACP.

230 Grain.

[Dystaxia]

Nice. What bullet is it and who makes it?

Accurate Molds: http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-230Z-D.png

[Dystaxia]

VERY NICE Dystaxia! What grain? I am assuming 9mm?

They do make one for the 9mm:

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=35-135Z-D.png

[kweidner]

Uuuuuggghhh. maybe next month. I love Tom's molds. Got a few and they are fantastic!

[golfhack]

A quick follow up: Several weeks ago I tried the Hi-Tek coating and ran into some problems with it flaking off. Hi-Tek thought it might have been because I used bullets that had been pre-sized, which he thought would prevent the coating from adhering to the surface.

Finally got some some unsized/unlubed 9mm 125g bullets to try again. Followed pretty much the same procedure as previously (5-1-7 ratio, about 390-400 degrees F for about 10 minutes, etc). See below result:

85820

After 2 coats, I sized them to .356". I loaded up a batch, along with a test load using Hi-Tek coated bullets that are now being offered by SNS Casting, and had a chance to test them out over the weekend. The result......success! Worked just as well as the SNS coated bullets and no leading with either. Now, I'm happy :-P

Thanks to everyone on this forum for your help!

[Love Life]

Wow Dystaxia!! I need to order me one of those!!

[Dystaxia]

So I coated them today.

1st coat, then baked:

8587585874

2nd coat, then baked:

8587785876

3rd and last coat, then baked:

8587985878

Sized, then loaded:

8588185880

Can't wait till the weekend!!! :)

[Ausglock]

Now, that is a good looking bullet....
The coating looks good too....

[gunoil]

Yep, no lube groove is nice. You size em dystax?

[Dystaxia]

Yep, no lube groove is nice. You size em dystax?

Yeah, sure do, .452

[HI-TEK]

Yeah, sure do, .452

How do they look after sizing.
Can you please post picture of sized projectiles.
Thanks much

[waltham41]

Not sure if this has been covered, I have a Italian Zouave .58 caliber musket and plan to shoot minnie balls out of it... will the coating work on a minnie ball? It has to expand to seal the bore on its way out

[Ausglock]

Not sure if this has been covered, I have a Italian Zouave .58 caliber musket and plan to shoot minnie balls out of it... will the coating work on a minnie ball? It has to expand to seal the bore on its way out


Do these balls get patched as they are loaded? If not. I would suspect that the coating would get rubbed off as it was rammed for loading.

[btroj]

Not sure if this has been covered, I have a Italian Zouave .58 caliber musket and plan to shoot minnie balls out of it... will the coating work on a minnie ball? It has to expand to seal the bore on its way out

It might work, for a few shots. A rifled musket like that needs a soft lube to keep the powder fouling soft. BP fouling will build up and dry into a hard fouling that makes seating the mini hard and it also can be hard on accuracy. Beeswax and crisco always worked well for me in those guns. It is messy as all get out but it sure shot well.

Save the coating stuff for smokeless powder, you will be much happier that way.

[Dystaxia]

How do they look after sizing.
Can you please post picture of sized projectiles.
Thanks much

HI-TEK, the picture from above (number 7 of 8, red background) are after they were sized, if you need another picture, let me know.

[HI-TEK]

HI-TEK, the picture from above (number 7 of 8, red background) are after they were sized, if you need another picture, let me know.


Thanks much.
Just wanted to be sure, as the ones you produced look great.
It is hoped that they will also work well when you shoot them.
Sizing seemed to not have any effect on coating or alloy but improve shine and overall finish.
Well done.
Looking forward to your report after shooting them.

[popper]

Got the H-T process down pretty good now. Shot ~50 of my 9mm XDs 3" @ 7 yrds. Then did 20 or so do verify accuracy was still good. Upper right 2 are from a different spot. Actually used my bad eye for this, usually have to cross over.
85966
Yup, no leading. For a sub compact, this one is a hoot to shoot. validated the load, now to load 500 for the daughter & SIL.

[toddrod]

I need a little help with my process. I am using the Red Copper. I am doing 3 light coats and the coating passes the hammer test after each coating and baking cycle. Now fast forward 1 week post coating and the coating flakes off with the hammer smash test. My temps in my oven are holding pretty consistent around 390 with 2 thermometers in the oven with the bullets. I do 1-5-10 mixture

[kweidner]

As long as it doesn't pass 400 I haven't seen it get flaky. Mine actually seem better with age. 10 is a little thin for me. 6 or 7 with anything with a shoulder. 5 on everything else. JMHO

[Ausglock]

I need a little help with my process. I am using the Red Copper. I am doing 3 light coats and the coating passes the hammer test after each coating and baking cycle. Now fast forward 1 week post coating and the coating flakes off with the hammer smash test. My temps in my oven are holding pretty consistent around 390 with 2 thermometers in the oven with the bullets. I do 1-5-10 mixture

You are local to Donnie. So I'd suggest taking some in and showing him.
What catalyst are you using?

[toddrod]

I am using the original catalyst.

I forgot to put that my cook times are 8-9 minutes using the timer on my Ipad

[leadman]

Reduce the acetone and you should be ok. Are you boolits turning dark brown? If so the temp might be a little high. 375 degrees seems to work the best for me. Temperature control is very important as well as length of time.
I have found that the oven thermometers don't respond fast enough to tell you when the temperature is going too high. I have one oven on a PID controller, one with the DVOM with thermocouple in the oven, and another digital oven I bought.
Hopefully my PID parts will be here from China tomorrow so all my ovens will be PID controlled.

[leadman]

Hi Tek,
No worries on getting lead posioning from the alkyl soap as I do not get it on my skin. I was an OSHA Certified Hazardous Waste Worker for several years and then held a safety position for a couple of more years. I get my blood lead level checked frequently just to be safe. But thanks for the concern.

If I wake up in the moring it is off to the range to test some more rifle boolits. Have some of the 120gr RN GC coated with Red Copper and loaded in the 30-06 to see what they will do.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

I need a little help with my process. I am using the Red Copper. I am doing 3 light coats and the coating passes the hammer test after each coating and baking cycle. Now fast forward 1 week post coating and the coating flakes off with the hammer smash test. My temps in my oven are holding pretty consistent around 390 with 2 thermometers in the oven with the bullets. I do 1-5-10 mixture

As others have suggested I wouldn't thin as much.
1cat, 5 acetone, 6-7 redcopper.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Been away for a few days. Wife had a knee replacement but she is home now and all is well as can be.

Last weekend we had a Large USPSA match locally, with 275 shooters from across the country.
Plain lead bullets were in the minority. Coated bullets came in a close second to jacketed bullets and I am proud to say that majority of the coated ones were from my shop.
Hi-Tek bullet coating is the future of cast bullets....I mean boolits.

[btroj]

Is a burning plastic type smell normal with these bullets when fired? Just wondering if that is normal or a sign I undercooked them.

They sure are clean to made and load. Gun stays much cleaner too.

[bstone5]

I smell the same type of Bakelite or plastic sawing smell. I tried to cook a little longer but at times the smell is still there, a lot of other people have also mentioned the smell in their posts.

The bullets still work well if you do not try to go to high in velocity, the copper or gold color is what I use now.

[btroj]

I am using red copper in 9mm and 45 ACP. Neither gun gets hot rod loads, medium velocity level actually.

[plinker]

Any chance this product can be shipped to Canada? I am an IPSC shooter and go through lots of projectiles. Would like to give this coating a try. I would appreciate any info on this guys, thanks.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Is a burning plastic type smell normal with these bullets when fired? Just wondering if that is normal or a sign I undercooked them.

They sure are clean to made and load. Gun stays much cleaner too.


It is common for them to generate a little plastic type smell when fired. Powder selection can make a difference in smell too.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Any chance this product can be shipped to Canada? I am an IPSC shooter and go through lots of projectiles. Would like to give this coating a try. I would appreciate any info on this guys, thanks.

Not sure if it can be or not, but if it did it would have to go via land route to make it feasible. I will check into it and see what i can find out for you.
Being a flammable liquid it cannot go by air.

[Dystaxia]

Well, got a chance to test them out today, and the results are very good.

4 inch targets at 5 yards, 1st group of 5 bullets:
2 in the bull's eye!

86112

2nd group of 5:
2 more in the bull's eye!

86113

3rd group of 5:
3 in the bull's eye!

86114

Last group of 5:
4 in the bull's eye!!!

86115



ZERO leading and a breeze to cleanup.

Specs:

5.4 grains of Accurate #2 Powder
CCI #500 Small Pistol Primers
230 grain 45-230Z (http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-230Z-D.png)
BNH of 20 using a Cabine Tree Tester (WW lead with Lino and Tin added - roughly the same as 92-6-2 makeup)
1.235 COAL
3x coat of "Red Copper" with a 5-1-10 ratio. 11ml of "mix" per 250 boolits per coat.
Sized using a .452 sizer

And, just to really blow the topic up some, it's been discussed earlier that it's not a good idea to size BEFORE coating, well, guess what, I do, and I think my results speak loudly that you can. In fact, I size BEFORE I coat and then AFTER the last coat, I size them again. Seems to give me a very even consistent coating without losing any coating after the final sizing.

Really happy guys, I've been working on this for the last four months (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?204174-simple-Hi-Tek-coating&p=2360112#post2360112) and was about to give up!!! I also believe that the "Tumble Lube" design molds are **** with Hi-Tek. Wasted two months of my life on those and as soon as I ditched them for the "Traditional Lube Groove" design all my leading problems went away. This new 45 mold from Tom at Accurate Molds without the grooves was more for a particular weapon that didn't like the COAL so short, it added about 0.045 to the COAL, fixing some of the feed problems I was having.

HI-TEK, Ausglock, gunoil and any others I may have used ideas from and not mentioned, THANKS! I really do dig this product!

[Ausglock]

I have never had the burning plastic smell from either mine or commercial coated bullets.
Dystaxia. I have been in contact with Tom about getting a .356 168gr RN Bevel base made in the same configuration as the 35-135Z. The IPSC shooter here in OZ use these weights to load their 357Sig 2011 guns for Std Div major power factor.
Might invest in the 45-230Z as well.

Plinker.... HI-TEK might have some good news for you in the not too distant future. A dry coating that does not require dangerous goods transport and can be air freighted. I have been trialing it with great results. HI-TEK is sending more dry-coat to test. So far, the Glitter Bronze and the Metallic Rose work fine on 40,44 and 45.

Swamprat.... Boolits are the silver greasy things. We are producing Bullets, coated with Bourbon Joe's secret herbs & spices..

[Liberty'sSon]

Need a little help, coated some tonight. Black coating 5-1-7 ratios, triple coated, coated at 385f for 9 minutes each time. Passed wipe test after first and third coats, but it is flaking after the smash test. on first coating it went to about 410f for about 30 seconds and I open the door for 10-15 seconds to get temp down to 375 range. All temp verified by lead therm in oven. The only thing I have read that causes brittleness/ flaking is high temps, but surely the 30 seconds at 410f wouldn't do that. The only thing I can think is that I didnt wait an extended period before the smash test, basically till bullets could be held in my bare hand. I will check them again in the am. Any ideas folks?

[dsa]

What color is getting the best result in open guns?

[golfhack]

I had a similar problem and thought at first that the temperature was too high. Turned out it was because I had applied the coating to bullets that had already been sized. This smoothed and sealed out the surface, making it difficult for the coating to adhere. The result was coating that flaked off and leading in the barrel. When I tried it again on unsized bullets (size after coating/baking), the coating worked fine.



Need a little help, coated some tonight. Black coating 5-1-7 ratios, triple coated, coated at 385f for 9 minutes each time. Passed wipe test after first and third coats, but it is flaking after the smash test. on first coating it went to about 410f for about 30 seconds and I open the door for 10-15 seconds to get temp down to 375 range. All temp verified by lead therm in oven. The only thing I have read that causes brittleness/ flaking is high temps, but surely the 30 seconds at 410f wouldn't do that. The only thing I can think is that I didnt wait an extended period before the smash test, basically till bullets could be held in my bare hand. I will check them again in the am. Any ideas folks?

[Ausglock]

you are probably putting the first coat on far too thick. Don't use so much. Also. Bake for a full 10 minutes.

[Ausglock]

What color is getting the best result in open guns?

Any of the metallics. Gold, Red Copper, Pearl Yellow, Glitter Bronze.

I'm firing some 125gr RN in the SVI racegun tomorrow. Coated with 2 coates of blue/green with Experimental resin 1 and with Resin 2 (Superhard)

[Gremlin460]

Convert #1 accomplished.
Brought a friend home after the range today, showed him how I cast the 132gn RN. Let him have a go for 15 mins. we dropped just over 250 and called it quits, then moved on to the ease of coating. Coated the 250 in one go and fired them through the oven .
Sized them and recoated, but didn't have time to bake the second round.

His missus is expecting their first so was called away. He is sold 100% wants to do this and is locked into using HiTek... I think we should get a commission.. 500ml of coating free in the next order... Joe.

[Ausglock]

Grem. I have a heap of coatings here that coat and bake fine, but the colours are horrible. I was going to tip them out. You want them? I'll have to run it past HI-TEK.
I'm heading to Brisbane next Friday to pickup some alloy from Northern smelters at Woodridge.

[plinker]

That would be great news. I would appreciate a follow up.

[Paul4895]

Ok, I've been following this thread and have re-read all 85 pages twice and I want to try it. The question I have is how much is a part? I know a lot of you coat 250 to 300 bullets at a time and I see that you use 5-1-10. But how much is the 5...1/4 ounce,? 1/4 or 1/2 tsp? I'm confused as to the individual ratio's used and I'm trying to get my head around this before I order the Hi-Tek. Thx, Paul

[Love Life]

Where in northern Nevada are you?

For parts I use a glass measuring cup and the teaspoon measurement.

5-6 TSP of color, 1 TSP of catalyst, and 9-10 TSP of acetone. BTW I need some more acetone...

[btroj]

I use 5 parts color, 1 part catalyst, 7 parts acetone. As long as you keep the ratio it doesn't matter what you measure with. I use a tablespoon measure, I could just as easily use a quart can.

Measure everything with the same measure and it doesn't matter, only the ratio matters.

[Paul4895]

Love Life, how many bullets do you coat with the ratio your using? I'm in Minden

[Love Life]

I reckon I get about 500 or so. I think... I never counted. I cast with a 5 or 6 cavity for an hour, and coat whatever amount that comes to be.

I'm over in Wellington if you want to play with the process 1st hand to get a feel for it.

[Ausglock]

As stated above it doesn't matter what you use to measure, so long as you use the same thing for each ingredient.
I use a shot glass type measure marked off in mls.

50mls of colour, 10mls of catalyst and 70mls of acetone.

Easy.

Spoons, and ounces do my head in. Too old school imperial. Metric is far easier to calculate...

[Gremlin460]

Grem. I have a heap of coatings here that coat and bake fine, but the colours are horrible. I was going to tip them out. You want them? I'll have to run it past HI-TEK.
I'm heading to Brisbane next Friday to pickup some alloy from Northern smelters at Woodridge.

Thanks but I think I will pass on the yucky colours, BUT you are more than welcome to ring 0433409335 when you get up here and if I am not buried in work we can meet up and have a coffee at my place. Woodridge is a 3-4 min drive.
You can check out my system and see if there is obvious faults with it. Saves me learning months from now what bits I have got wrong.

[Gremlin460]

Ok, I've been following this thread and have re-read all 85 pages twice and I want to try it. The question I have is how much is a part? I know a lot of you coat 250 to 300 bullets at a time and I see that you use 5-1-10. But how much is the 5...1/4 ounce,? 1/4 or 1/2 tsp? I'm confused as to the individual ratio's used and I'm trying to get my head around this before I order the Hi-Tek. Thx, Paul

Paul it depends of how manny casts you are going to coat. To be honest if you are coating under 1 or 2 thousand, you are going to end up throwing some mixture away. simply because you use so little!.
Go to a chemist and grab some syringes, the sell them for mere cents. easiest way to measure.

I personally grabbed a small bottle , about the size of a alox bottle from the cheap shop, I measured with a tape 3.5 centimeters and put a dot on the bottle, then 2.5 centimeters put anonther mark and then half a centimeter and put a 3rd dot. So you end up with 3 dots stacked in a line. 3.5 is 7 x .5 fill to this dot with acetone. 2.5 up from there is 5 x .5 fill to this mark with colour, and last above is a dot at .5 which you fill to with catalyst. then put top on and shake like hell to mix. so your end result is 5-1-7.
In a alox sized bottle the this will give you more than enough for 1000 to 1500 double coatings.
I have stored this in a fridge for more than 2 weeks and it still works well if you can keep it cool.
Hope this helps.

[zomby woof]

I bought a plastic measuring spoon set. Depending on how many boolits I have to coat I use a different size spoon. Teaspoon, tablespoon etc...

[leadman]

I shot the 120gr Saeco 30 cal RN GC yesterday in the 30-06 using H4895. These boolits were about 14 BHN after coating so I did not expect very high velocity with them. The accuracy was very poor as the boolit won't even come close to the throat in my Savage 110DL. There was one group at about 40 grs and 2,500 fps velocity that did cluster into a 1/2" group at 100 yards but then the addition of 1 more grain of powder in the next load blew the grouping apart. That group was about 6" and the additional 2 groups of 1 grain each kept spreading. The group that was shot after the 1/2" group also had a trace of the light gray smoke leaving the muzzle and the additional groups increased this smoke.
This is confirmation of what I had found on previous experiments that this is the point the strength of the alloy is overcome with the pressure of the burning powder.
This was not as easy to identify when I was using a wax based lube that normally had smoke from firing. Now that the smoke from the lube is non-existant this point is easy to identify. I have seen this when shooting my SBH Hunter in 41 mag with 8 BHN boolits in very stout loads.
Even though there was smoke coming out of the barrel there was no trace of leading so the coating is doing the job.

Just something to look for especially if one is trying to increase the velocity with boolits soft enough for hunting purposes.

[Dystaxia]

Ok, I've been following this thread and have re-read all 85 pages twice and I want to try it. The question I have is how much is a part? I know a lot of you coat 250 to 300 bullets at a time and I see that you use 5-1-10. But how much is the 5...1/4 ounce,? 1/4 or 1/2 tsp? I'm confused as to the individual ratio's used and I'm trying to get my head around this before I order the Hi-Tek. Thx, Paul

Paul4895,

Syringes are your friends!!! I use them to mix up my ratio of 5-1-10, 5 parts red copper, 1 part catalyst and 10 parts acetone. For 200 45acp boolits, I use 10cc's of "mix" per coat, 3 coats. Therefore I need 30 cc's of mix, so I'll do a 20-2-10 which gives me 32 cc's of mix. Kept in an airtight bottle it will last awhile. I usually just keep adding to the bottle, so I never really throw any of it away. For 9mm, I use about 5 cc's of mix per coat. Hope that helps.

[Liberty'sSon]

you are probably putting the first coat on far too thick. Don't use so much. Also. Bake for a full 10 minutes.

Trevor, I've coated before and definitely went too thick on first coat. This time I tried to avoid that. It was a lot of 100 Boolits a friend gave me unlubed from a local supplier. I used between 2-2.5 ml of mixed 5-1-7 for each of the three coats. By my calculations that should coat about 20000 Boolits with three coats for a liter kit. Does that still sound like too thick? Or are my calculations off. The first coat after cooking was still transparent and passed the wipe test great. Right now I'm leaning more towards thinking that the commercial caster sized the Boolits but didn't lube them as the cause. However I would like your input on a good ratio of mixed coating per number of Boolits or possibly weight of Boolits. I'm not sure of the best way to calculate this as for different bullets the surface area to volume/weight ratios are different. Ie 1000 grams of 115 grain 9mm has more surface area than 1000 grams of 230 grain 45 ACP. I'm probably over thinking this but I'd like a way to get proper coating that will stick without wasting coating.

[Ausglock]

I mix 130mls at a time. I coat approximately 250 to 300 9mm 125gr bullets at a time. I'd use 7mls per coat. with 45's I coat 200 to 250 at a time with the same amount (7mls) per coat. Everything comes out fine.

Always smash and wipe after the first coat. This will show shattering if the first coat is not right, when smashed.

Today I ran the experimental resins 1 and 2 with 125gr RN in my SVI race gun at Major power factor (1400fps)
All fired from a bench rest at 50 metres. ALl shot great. Accurate and clean. I'll post some photos later of the targets and the bore.

Grem. Will do.

[kweidner]

Finally had 40 success in 5 different guns. Wil post groups tomorrow. Scary accurate at 10yds. like eyeball accurate. its all in the oven. Things i tried in the past that failed work with 40 now. thank you breville.
Hy-tek thought it was the heat source. Joe was right. Joe pls make sure if something happens to you someone knows your secret. I just got my ins. gonna make a go at this. Many locals love my rounds. You sir are the man. I have been letting them shoot 50 out of their plarform of choice in 9mm. If it leads I pay them $20. if not they have to buy 2 boxes. yes I have ffl and have paid ITAR. Haven't paid a dime on those 9mm bets and sold a bunch o rounds already. Now to the 40 since it is proven.
G27 shot 150 rounds today coated with gold. 2 runs w bore snake and can't tell it was shot.

[Ausglock]

Finally had 40 success in 5 different guns. Wil post groups tomorrow. Scary accurate at 10yds. like eyeball accurate. its all in the oven. Things i tried in the past that failed work with 40 now. thank you breville.
Hy-tek thought it was the heat source. Joe was right. Joe pls make sure if something happens to you someone knows your secret. I just got my ins. gonna make a go at this. Many locals love my rounds. You sir are the man. I have been letting them shoot 50 out of their plarform of choice in 9mm. If it leads I pay them $20. if not they have to buy 2 boxes. yes I have ffl and have paid ITAR. Haven't paid a dime on those 9mm bets and sold a bunch o rounds already. Now to the 40 since it is proven.
G27 shot 150 rounds today coated with gold. 2 runs w bore snake and can't tell it was shot.


Great stuff. It's really easy once you get everything doing what it should.

[HI-TEK]

Finally had 40 success in 5 different guns. Wil post groups tomorrow. Scary accurate at 10yds. like eyeball accurate. its all in the oven. Things i tried in the past that failed work with 40 now. thank you breville.
Hy-tek thought it was the heat source. Joe was right. Joe pls make sure if something happens to you someone knows your secret. I just got my ins. gonna make a go at this. Many locals love my rounds. You sir are the man. I have been letting them shoot 50 out of their plarform of choice in 9mm. If it leads I pay them $20. if not they have to buy 2 boxes. yes I have ffl and have paid ITAR. Haven't paid a dime on those 9mm bets and sold a bunch o rounds already. Now to the 40 since it is proven.
G27 shot 150 rounds today coated with gold. 2 runs w bore snake and can't tell it was shot.

Thanks much for your report.
Your kind words are much appreciated.
Please note, that larger weight boolits will take a little longer to get up to heat if you use same number loaded into the oven.
This is why, a mini cyclone inside oven is best if you can achieve it.
My little oven, I have used an additional fan with shaft going through side wall and motor mounted outside. I did not rely on commercial fan forced systems, as they seldom are best in design, unless you start paying a lot of money for much better ovens.
Air, is a very poor conductor of heat, and to pass that heat to the alloys, it has to come into contact with them many times over and rapidly.
That is most efficient way of getting heat into alloys and more even heating as well.
Well done, and am looking forward to more of your posts.
HI-TEK

[Ausglock]

Range report.
All testing was done at 50 metres from a sandbag rest on a bench.
The blue/green resin 1 fire perfectly.
Same with blue/green resin 2.

If anything, the resin 2 was probably a tad more accurate.
The patches on the targets are 1" in Dia to give a bit of scale to the photo.

There was virtually no difference in accuracy or velocity. Velocity was 1352 to 1360 for all shots fired
The last photo is the red 254 resin 1 with the gold solids from the gold 1035 resin 4 added to it.
It also fired perfectly and accurate. Bullet was a 120gr Conical. Velocity was 1406 average.

Note: the dark shadow in the bore is the popple hole. The gun is lying on its left side. photos taken through the compensator
Blue/green resin 1
86257
Blue/green resin 2
86258
Red 254+ Gold 1035
86259
Bore 1
86260
Bore 2
86261

[popper]

Btroj - I got the funny smell on my first batch that wasn't cured correctly. Some leading too. Last batch that cured properly didn't give the smell. Same odor that I get when they are coking so I assume they are 'curing' when fired. Well, back to taking care of the GKs. Then monitor the NYCM and off to 2 more soccer games with the GKs.

[Paul4895]

Thanks All, the measurement info that you all gave is exactly what I was looking for. I don't feel so intimated to try this now, and I can figure out how much product to use...thanks again..Paul

[kweidner]

Thanks All, the measurement info that you all gave is exactly what I was looking for. I don't feel so intimated to try this now, and I can figure out how much product to use...thanks again..Paul

Many of us use slightly different amounts depending on how much acetone you use. With 5-1-6 start at 1 tsp per 5lbs of alloy. this is about 250 135 gr nines or 200 180 gr 40's. This should get you in the ballpark. Adjust from there. Go ahead and get a good oven. you will be glad you did.

[Love Life]

I pour my concoction into a bug juice drink bottle. I toss a couple handfuls into the coffee can, add a squirt of HI-TEK, and get to shaken. I shake for about 15 seconds and dump before the sound changes.

That is my scientific approach to it.

[btroj]

Btroj - I got the funny smell on my first batch that wasn't cured correctly. Some leading too. Last batch that cured properly didn't give the smell. Same odor that I get when they are coking so I assume they are 'curing' when fired. Well, back to taking care of the GKs. Then monitor the NYCM and off to 2 more soccer games with the GKs.

I wondered if undercooking was the cause. I am not getting leading but did get a sticky residue in the bore that grabs at the patches.

Bullets will get another cooking for a bit longer. I think part of my problem is that I am not giving them long enough to fully dry, this cuts into the cooking time as I am driving off excess acetone for a part of the heat cycle.

Thanks for the info, it reinforces what I thought was going on.

[Love Life]

Let your bullets dry for a an hour or more. I let mine dry overnight, cast a few every night, and coat/bake on weekends. The ammo cans fill up fast that way...

[btroj]

Yeah, I rushed things. I know, I know. I need to wait. I just wanted to load ammo the next AM to get a chance to try them out. That didn't work, I seated them too long and had poor feeding. Seated them deeper a few days later and they were fine.

I will be rebooking these for 10 more minutes, I know they are fully dry now.

[HI-TEK]

Yeah, I rushed things. I know, I know. I need to wait. I just wanted to load ammo the next AM to get a chance to try them out. That didn't work, I seated them too long and had poor feeding. Seated them deeper a few days later and they were fine.

I will be rebooking these for 10 more minutes, I know they are fully dry now.


Thanks for your posting.
I have always try and suggest, that people need to cast as many as they can in advance.
The home casting is the area that is slowest.
Once you have a reasonable quantity, then, make up some coating mixture, and coat what you can with that mixture.
It is always best, if you then are left with some uncoated projectiles, and use up all your coating mixture , and then there is no waste, and coating mixtures are always fresh.
The uncoated stuff can be done with next lot, as you cast more for later use.
Coating is very quick. It is better if you can leave (especially first coat) over night and bake next day.
That way you can maximise drying, and save time and energy with heating, as you can cook all you had coated one batch after the other.
As many are finding, some small ovens are not up to scratch with ability to do the job, and sometimes "best set up" for correct cooking, needs to be determined, by playing with settings and time of cook.

[jakec]

Let your bullets dry for a an hour or more. I let mine dry overnight, cast a few every night, and coat/bake on weekends. The ammo cans fill up fast that way...

thats what i do.

[btroj]

I was amazed at how accurate the oven settings were, the thermometer I put in the oven matched up pretty well. I adjusted the dial until the thermometer showed 400 degrees.

I need to make the coating a two day process. Coat one day, cook the next and recoat. Then cook again later.

This is NOT a process that can be sped up, that is for sure.

I am certain that what happened is undercooking. Mine spent too much time evaporating off acetone instead of heating. A longer time might help.

Lesson learned. Won't be repeating that mistake!

[Love Life]

The $30.00 toaster oven from Wal-Mart is the bomb. Came with a 2 year warranty for an extra $4.00.

I set it for 400 degrees, never use a thermometer. I set my computer stopwatch and go remove the bullets at the allotted time. Success every time.

Ensure you let your oven pre-heat. I remove a batch of bullets, close oven door, and dump them on the cooling rack (hehe. I said rack). I then load the baking tray up, and set it on top of the oven for one minute. What this does is allows the oven to come back to full temp and warms the bullets up a little. After they sit on top of the oven a bit, you put the tray of bullets in the oven to bake. I open the oven and give the oven tray full of bullets a quick shake at the half way point.

Perfect bullets everytime. It's a truly easy process. Take your time and do it right. Rushing, and then getting inferior results, is operator error.

Prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

Don't over think the process. Cast, coat, bake, coat, bake, shoot, happy dance.

[btroj]

Overthinking wasn't a problem, under thinking was?
gotta let it dry, dammit.

Oh well, it seemed to all be going too well anyway......

[Ausglock]

Don't over think the process. Cast, coat, bake, coat, bake, shoot, happy dance.

Yeah Baby.............. :)

[HI-TEK]

I was amazed at how accurate the oven settings were, the thermometer I put in the oven matched up pretty well. I adjusted the dial until the thermometer showed 400 degrees.

I need to make the coating a two day process. Coat one day, cook the next and recoat. Then cook again later.

This is NOT a process that can be sped up, that is for sure.

I am certain that what happened is undercooking. Mine spent too much time evaporating off acetone instead of heating. A longer time might help.

Lesson learned. Won't be repeating that mistake!

Two day process is really not necessary.
Commercial casters use such methods as they coat many hundreds of thousands per day. They force dry their products with warmed fanned air to a couple of degrees above ambient temperatures, and after they check the drying, they simply start cooking process.
They start with first coated stuff and proceed to last coated stuff, that way it allows maximum forced air drying .
Some home users, after allowing drying for 10-15 minutes, further warm the products with a hair dryer, to just warm, and then they are sure, that majority of drying is achieved before baking.
I suppose for each users, casting and coating rates really depends on quantities required to be done and how fast product is required.
Allowing to dry over night with many is a preferable option, and with others, they want product quicker.
Creativity with the process is the key.

[gunoil]

l told jye!

[Ausglock]

You snorting the coating again, Gunslick?????:kidding:

[Love Life]

You got to have proper ventilation...

[Gremlin460]

Just spent 45 mins removing 80% of the lube grove out of my lee 6 cav mold. simple job, drilled it out till most of it was gone and a quick lap with some 800 wet/dry carborundum paper. the groove is still there, JUST as in .002 thou approx.

Cast about 50 just now and what a difference it made! you open the mold with a snap motion and all 6 just fall into the water quench.
Trouble is now its that fast to cast with, that its easy to turn out frosted boolits. No more smacking the handles/fingers etc. No more jarring sprue plates loose.
Next time I buy a mihec mold I will ask for no lube grove. Will make it easier to cast and probably easier to make.

If Trev and I make the meet this Friday I will show him the frosted ones, I am wondering if the frosting would actually add to the adhesion of the coating to the projectile. Lets face it shiney means smooth and smooth means very little purchase on the surface.
Maybe Joe can step in and give his opinion on this.

[Gremlin460]

If any off you want to drill your lube grooves out of the mold let me give you a heads up.

Drop a small steel ball bearing in each cavity first, it will stop you accidently going too deep with the drill bit.
Slot a small wooden dowl and slide the 600 grit paper into the groove doubled over, about 2-3" in length.
Leave the ball bearing in the bottom again, to protect the tip of the mold. spin the dowel and paper in each cavity for a few seconds, all you are looking for is to round off the lube groove that's left .
You could remove it all together, but unessesary to go that far, I took the time to remove it totally from one hole, but the other 5 with the tiny reminant of the groove drop the casts clean and quickly as the one with zero lube groove.

For all those hours spent beating on the mold with a chunk of wood, well its now a thing of the past for me.
Flicking the mold open one handed is enough to drop all 6 into the water quench 99.999999999999% of the time, so much so that I don't even put the laddle down anymore. (yes I laddle pour!).

[Ausglock]

grem. I'm going to do that. but I'm going to use a 8mm ball nose end mill and a milling machine.

[220]

Well after a week of reading all 1753 posts, I think I have more questions than before I started reading.

Most of my high volume casting reloading is for 32, 9mm & 38/357 in handguns. Where possible I have been using TL moulds and lube and have even managed to get the 9mm to work with TL & alox. All these loads are below 1000fps.
From reading the whole thread I get the impression I wouldn't have any trouble with simply switching to hi tek with any of these loads once I got the coating and baking sorted. I might even be able to push velocity a little higher.
Any of the colours and the standard cat would work but blue/green is probably easiest to begin with.
Have I got this right?
Does anyone shoot their TL designs coated with the blue/green unsized.
I currently don't size my alox coated TL boolits. I can't see coating being quicker than TL but I could live with that considering the other benefits and the pretty boolits but if sizing is a must then it might be the deal breaker.

I also load some reduced loads in rifles for small game hunting. 115gr in 30/30 @ 1400fps, 44gr in 222 @ 1900fps. These loads are with gas check and conventional lube. I'm of the understanding that the best colour for these would be one of the metalics, probably gold or copper/red with the extreme cat.
The same would hold true for the 45/70 and 357mag in rifle with loads in the 1300-1800fps range
Have I got this right?
Now it appears that fitting GC prior to coating is the best option but with sizing prior to coating causing bonding issues how is everyone attaching GC, over size size dies?

Finally form reading it appears the metalics add about 1 thou to diameter per coat, is this correct?
If so is anyone using it to increase diameter of boolits from moulds that drop undersize. What success have you had?
Would it be possible to increase the diameter of a 9mm design that drops 356 to 358 or 359 for use in 38/357 with 3 or 4 coats?

[Ausglock]

HITEK works on TL bullets. no issues.
Any colour is easy to use. The Blue/green doesn't have any solids, so it is easier for the nooby not to stuff it up.
If your gun like unsized bullets, go for it.
Any coating will work without GC at those velocities. We have been doing just that for years here in OZ.
Trying to use the coating to bump up the bullet size doesn't work too well. I have used it on an undersized 45 Lyman mold at low velocity, But the results were hit and miss.

[prickett]

By my calculations that should coat about 20000 Boolits with three coats for a liter kit.

I think most of us have concluded that 2 coats is more than enough for pistol boolits


However I would like your input on a good ratio of mixed coating per number of Boolits or possibly weight of Boolits. I'm not sure of the best way to calculate this as for different bullets the surface area to volume/weight ratios are different. Ie 1000 grams of 115 grain 9mm has more surface area than 1000 grams of 230 grain 45 ACP. I'm probably over thinking this but I'd like a way to get proper coating that will stick without wasting coating.

Yeah, you are over thinking it :-) I typically equate 100 124 gr. 9mm's with 75 or 80 230 gr .45's (i.e. they require the same amount of HI-TEK/Piglet/Klass Kote/whatever). I'll need to check my notes at home to tell you how much for that amount of lead, though.

[kweidner]

Range update. Made some 38specials today for a customer. Had a few over run and decided to try them in my .357 DW 10". First shot was high. Settled the sights at 15 yds and ran the rest of the cylinder. Wow. Did I mention I love HT. Even with my wifes snubby they were less than an inch. Now don't laugh, these were a 135 rnfp just sized to .358. Same one I use in my nine but .358. I have a new plinking round. Out of a 10" DW it was like a cap gun. No lead in either platform but looking at the throats on my wifes snubby how it didn't pull the coating off I will never know. Here is that screamer group from my Dan. Both barrels were like mirrors at the end of the session.
86586

[gunoil]

epa has shut down last lead smelter in USA. Maybe we can open it again in few years if we go vote.

[hpdrifter]

Been reading 88 pages of this thread. Must say it sounds awfully interesting.

When I get a few dollars ahead, I'll be buying me some of this.

Can't wait to do some lo tech hiTek mihek boolits.

Already got some hardware cloth, an oven, and handling materials, oh, and some unlubed projectiles.

[gunoil]

Great, its good stuff! Glad your here. Ausglock can make it easy. Just keep in mind its a stain and not really heavy like paint. Some that new cat#2 or 3 is really slick. I use the hi-tek 500 mold release also when i cast. Just bought a new rcbs pro melt and sold Lee 20lb furnace on ebay in 12 hours. Preventive measures for the future. Your shop, dies, fingers, barrels,etc will be cleaner.

[Gateway Bullets]

epa has shut down last lead smelter in USA. Maybe we can open it again in few years if we go vote.

Gunoil, that has been a major problem here in Missouri. The plant has been sued by the local residents for lead contamination BIG MESS!

http://www.usaprepares.com/financial/lead-smelter-in-herculaneum-set-to-close-in-2013

[leadman]

Today I coated some 475 boolits and some 38 boolits. I was having issues getting good coverage on the 475s but then added some of the 38s to the mixing pail and the 475s coated much better.
I have had no problems coating the boolits then letting them dry in the sun for 15 minutes. Today the DVOM was reading 88 degrees in the sun. Maybe when it gets cooler I may have to let them dry longer.
I bought some gold recently and found I really like it. It does not add to the boolit diameter as much as the Red Copper so sizing is much easier.
I have used the Red Copper to add to the diameter of the 314299 for my Mosin Nagant and at around 1,600 fps to 1,800 fps it seems to work just fine.
I seat the gas checks in my RCBS luber/sizer using the Lyman gas check seating tool so the boolit barely enters the die. This way the boolit is not sized. I did try seating after coating but it did not work well with most of the checks not seating on the boolit shank as far.
I also have been using 5-1-6 ratio but recently have added additional acetone to the top coat as the appearance is better and it does not seem to affect anything else.

[220]

Thanks leadman your post answered a few of my questions. Nice to know how to overcome the gas check seating and that some increase in diameter with good results is possible. Looks like the Lyman lube sizer won't be mothballed, not that it would have anyway as BPC will require a good lube even if coated.
I should say I'm in Aus so have played with coated commercial cast on and off for the past 20 years in pistol cals and pistol calibre rifles. Haven't tried dedicated rifle projectiles coated.
Don't think I have purchased a box since I started casting about 10 years ago and discovered I could produce boolits that were more accurate than I could buy.
Unfortunately the coatings have only very recently become available to the home caster in Aus so hands on experience here is also limited.


A few of the blokes at my club have run some accuracy comparisons using commercial swaged with both coated and conventional lubes.
From their testing they concluded the conventional lubed projectiles were slightly more accurate but not by enough to worry about.

[Ausglock]

I need a new project. I'm bored with coating cause it is so easy to do and the results are always perfect.

Always wanted to skydive.........
Wrestle crocs........
Breed Drop bears.......
Manage a brothel......
Make tabacco pouches out of Kangaroo scotums........

[gunoil]

thanks for that link gateway b..

Anybody like 380's? Heres some hi-tek-green hornets/108gr/makarov nose.

Made this vid last nite on lee loadmaster

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SJ9meSDiio

[Ausglock]

nice vid, Gunslick.
But where are the drop bears???

[sierra1911]

Ausglock, I highly recommend skydiving - initially it's a huge adrenalin rush and after that just a lot of fun. Only made 250 jumps before I started flying but there's nothing like stepping out of a plane at 13,500 feet above ground.

[Gateway Bullets]

A customer had me coat his projectiles so he could test the coating. He is going to shoot 300 Blackout subsonic suppressed. I will post when I get his results.

8684386844

[kweidner]

Gunoil, that has been a major problem here in Missouri. The plant has been sued by the local residents for lead contamination BIG MESS!

http://www.usaprepares.com/financial/lead-smelter-in-herculaneum-set-to-close-in-2013

???? http://www.manta.com/c/mmcllj7/quemetco-inc

Found a few more. This is listed as secondary....

Hytek any news on when you harder catalysts might be available? Weeks, months? Just curious. really wanting to give some a go. I could imagine the superhard topcoated with extreme 3 would sure be fun to expiriment with.

[gunoil]

What? whats a drop bears? Just wait til next week when the 1050 is running.

[Gremlin460]

Drop Bears are distant cousin to Koalas, slightly larger, they hunt by "dropping" on anything under the tree they hide in.
Usually they drop on roo's or sheep and sink the claws in while on their backs. they then bite and drain blood until the prey cant move and die.
Some campers and hunters have also been taken by these things.
Nasty pieces of work.

[Ausglock]

G'day Grem.
Sorry I didn't ring. We were on a tight schedule and had no spare time.

Drop bears...
http://australianmuseum.net.au/drop-bear
86857
86858
86859

[popper]

And we thought Koalas were teddybear leaf eaters. The same enviro nuts shut down several lead processors here, Exide was the latest. Now the cities found they have to clean up the residual mess - and don't have the money.

[leadman]

Survived the surgery with little pain but no pathology yet. Am home and taking it easy for awhile. Very little nerve damage that is slowly going away. My left eye does not blink with the right and slight drop to the left side of my mouth. Going to have to remember to close the eyes to keep the left eye moist. Doc said all this should go away in a week or so.
Gateway, that Lee boolit I have found is much more accurate with a gas check installed. I may try removing the boattail on a cavity just to see what happens.

[Gateway Bullets]

Leadman, let me know how it works. My customer is a 300 nut and is trying to design a subsonic bullet for the Hi-Tek coating. He is paying for the molds and when they are done I'll start casting for it.

Glad you're doing ok!

[leadman]

Gateway, the Lyman 314299 works very well in my 300, so the 312299 should also work well. I have been shooting the Lee 200gr .309" bullet in my 1903a3 at around 1,200 to 1,400 fps and it is very accurate. I am going to load some of these in my 300 W to see what they will do.

[Gremlin460]

Well first time I shot my casts today. Friend of mine loaded 100 with ADI 3.5gn and 100 with 4.0gn Adi pistol powder.

The 3.5 wont cycle my 92fs well at all but will cycle his 1911 springfield.
Out of 2 mags @ 6 shots each 3 went in the middle fine the rest started to scatter and out of 12 8 keyholed with 4.0gn powder.
Stripping the barrel out it looked like a lead factory.
Total failure of the coating.
In both guns.
Not overly worried at this point as these were the very first ones I coated. When the oven was running too hot.

Next week will run the same test on the second batch coated , these were coated when I had a better idea and control of the cook temp.

Now I have a hours worth of work to get the barrel clean, most came out with 5-6 passes of the copper brush, but I am fanatical about clean and this barrel is not what I call clean enough yet.

Next time Trev.. no probs..
Coffee time.

[Ausglock]

Grem. you got a lewis lead remover?
They are great at cleaning out leading.

I also have 50:50 mix of white vinegar and hydrogen perixide that I swab and leave for a few hours, then pull the Lewis through. clean as a whistle.

[Gremlin460]

Trev shoot me an addy, I will fwd some of the first coated for your opinion, and also some of the coatings done after the temp sensors were fitted..

Be interested in your opinion, these are sized at 358 and the barrel is 356.2 so I doubt its because the projectile was too small. 1.8 thou should be enough crush into the bore don't you think?

[redrockant]

Grem

Shame this message is a day late Trev and I were in Brisvagas yesterday

Ant

[Gremlin460]

Grem

Shame this message is a day late Trev and I were in Brisvagas yesterday

Ant

Let me guess, you could have dropped in as you went to Woodridge and I live 4 mins from Woodridge?

[Ausglock]

Grem

Shame this message is a day late Trev and I were in Brisvagas yesterday

Ant

Ant. I knew. no time.

[PodPeople]

I coated my first boolits the other day with Donnie's dark green. I double coated some Lee TL452-230-2Rs into 45ACP and 45 Colt cases and shot them through my Ruger Blackhawk convertible -- no leading! I also double coated some TL452-200-SWCs. I just got this mold recently and it casts way oversized - 459. When I ran the boolits through my Lee 452 sizing die the coating and some lead was sheared off. I'm going to see if Lee will replace the mold. I'm thinking about recoating these and resizing them. Has anyone had success dealing with oversize boolits by coating, resizing, coating again, and resizing again?

[kweidner]

wow that's huge. Coat, size, recoat. Awful lot of sizing IMHO. Size your 45 colt to 453ish. At $40 buy another and forget about it. .452 is about perfect for 45acp. Colts I like up to .454. Still a ton of sizing. Just curious. What did you measure with? Dial indicators can be off a bit.

[PodPeople]

Just curious. What did you measure with? Dial indicators can be off a bit.

I used a Harbor Freight digital micrometer. The TL452-230-2Rs I cast measured 453. I made both batches in the same casting session.

[Gremlin460]

The time it takes to cast 2000 projectiles is not nearly as quick as it take to re-melt them...

Thought for the day.

[Ausglock]

a smart man. A careful man, will always ensure that quality is paramount to quantity.

[kweidner]

a smart man. A careful man, will always ensure that quality is paramount to quantity.

Precisely why I swage my own .224. Them suckers fly great. I take my time and do it right. I would put my home swage against any factory offering and many benchrest.

[Gremlin460]

After releasing the lead from the over-cooked coatings, which strangely enough was actually interesting to do. I checked ~100 of 3 coating sessions, these last ones pass the wipe test with flying colours but an occasional one has a flake issue under smash testing.
This leads me to believe that I am very close to consistant success with the coating.
I know Joe reads this thread , So Joe I am proposing to drop my cook temp by 5 degrees.
My Displace and thermo unit says 201-203 at the end of bake time. I think that I am just on the edge of excess time/temp of the flaking limit. Either through the design of the oven or my methology Id like to just ease back a fraction to try and avoid the flaking.

Trev I will be sending you samples, you will be able to see yourself my screw up on the first over cook. Should have them in a few days as I didn't send them via Star-track so you wont have to wait weeks.

[Ausglock]

Play with time rather than temp.
The commercial casters actually bake for only 5 minutes at elevated temps and have no problems.

We are limited by the small ovens we are using. I see Heller have a 28 Litre oven now. They have dis-continued the 48 liter that I use.

[Gateway Bullets]

Gateway, the Lyman 314299 works very well in my 300, so the 312299 should also work well. I have been shooting the Lee 200gr .309" bullet in my 1903a3 at around 1,200 to 1,400 fps and it is very accurate. I am going to load some of these in my 300 W to see what they will do.

If I remember correctly, both molds have the gas check base. Or was it the 314299'had it and the 312299 didn't.... Guess I will have to look that one up! Either way, he doesn't want the gas check because of the silencer. I'll cast the man anything he wants. I'm just out the lead and time, but if he gets it right, I'll buy molds for the magma and cast away for the 300 shooters.

[Gremlin460]

Play with time rather than temp.
The commercial casters actually bake for only 5 minutes at elevated temps and have no problems.

We are limited by the small ovens we are using. I see Heller have a 28 Litre oven now. They have dis-continued the 48 liter that I use.

1)I did 50 today @ 4 degrees cooler, and 9.5 mins. I even re-tried the violetx2, it still came out almost black but W&S test went fine. They even sized well from 359 to 358 with very little problem.
But yes I need to piss about a bit to get the optimum for my setup.

2) I posted 35,000 boolits to you today, please load and test each one, and then recover the lead and return. Just joking, was only 500. notes in each baggie will explain more on each.
Also just for ghits & siggles I included a small bag with each of the 4 styles I cast. 3 are from the MiHec mold before I removed the lube ridge.

[Ausglock]

you will be schit out of luck on the lead recovery.

[Gremlin460]

What! I thought you was such an awesome shooter they all land in the same place and you just scoop the pile back up!!.

[leadman]

Gateway, hope to work on the 300 mold today if my eyes will quit watering long enough to do it. My left eye does not blink on its own now and if I forget to close it once in a while both start watering. Doc said this should go away with time after the surgery I had Thursday. I'm ready for it. LOL.
And both of the Lyman boolits are gas checked. I found even the Lee 230gr shoots better with a gc on it.

[Moonman]

Donnie returned my email, I'll have to call him about ordering coating components.

I just located a Breville BOV800XL convection toaster oven (the SMART OVEN) $250.

Bed Bath and Beyond

I have a Respirator, Chemical Gloves, Screening type material for pans, Coke Bottle for mixing,

Oven Thermometers, standard oven and Digital Probe, along with the ovens thermometer.

Need to get casting for more BOOLITS to experiment and process later.

Thinking of ordering 1/2 kits form Donnie in GREEN AND GOLD for a start to the learning curve.

I mostly shoot INDOOR PISTOL, light to middle loads, 38 Special, 9MM, 45ACP, and sometimes 40S&W.

Suggestions anyone?????

[leadman]

IIRC the gold coating is certified for indoor shooting in Aus. Don't recall if any of the others are.

[Moonman]

Just talked with Donnie at Bayou Bullets, my order will be on the way tomorrow.

Need to go pick up the BREVILLE "SMART" CONVECTION OVEN now (BOV800XL).

[Ausglock]

Moonman. Follow my instructions on page 19 of this thread and you will be good to go.

leaving the freshly coated bullets to dry is most important. Don't be in a hurry. 10 minutes then warm with a hair dryer or leave for 1/2 hour (you can leave for a week if you want to).
Always smash test and wipe test after each coat baking has cooled. remember to use small amounts. if it looks like there is not enough coating on your shaken bullets, then it is perfect. thin is better than thick.

My experience with 40S&W is that the lee Carbide FC die ruins bullet size and caused severe leading in my Glock 35. I now use a Dillon crimp die and my 40 loads are fine.

Grem.. E.S.A.D. :-)

[Moonman]

Trevor,

I just got home from picking up the Breville Convection Oven.

One thing about RETIREMENT, going slower fits my lifestyle,

after decades of dealing WITH CORPORATE EDICTS and that HUSSLE-BUSSLE world.

Folks/Blokes, and Sheila's too, need to STOP AND SMELL THE ROSES once in awhile.

This thread is bountiful with information IF ONE PAYS ATTENTION.

Grateful for your input Sir.

[Ausglock]

No worries, Mate.
Glad to help.

[nighthunter]

Red/Copper in 454 Casull ... I have a 375 grain HP mold for bullets for my 45-70's. It casts at .460. I was sizing some up that I had coated 3 times with the red/copper and I got one of them brain farts. My brother has a 454 Casull and if I could size them down to .451 maybe I could get him to try them in his hand cannon. So ,,, after 2 coats I sized to .457 then gave them another coat and baked. While the bullets were still warm I applied some swageing lube and let it melt onto the bullets. I was then able to very easily push them through a .451 die. Got them mailed to my brother and he couldn't wait to try them. Included is a picture he sent me of his 10 shot groups at 35 yards. He reports not a speck of leading in the barrel or the barrel ports. He is going to try loading more at a higher velocity and will let me know how they perform. This bullet also shoots very well in my 45-70's when sized
.459 with no leading.

[gunoil]

trevor, though you were suppose to be workin on christmas lights. I bought a 1050 and a rcbs pro melt. yep!
Did i show u this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SJ9meSDiio

Mikesreloadingbench.com




DANG NIGHTHUNTER!

[Ausglock]

Yeah. I think I have gotten out of doing the lights. Woohoo.....

Too busy casting and coating.

[Gremlin460]

I spent this afternoon, messing with the oven.
One of my pet hates is that when removing or entering trays in the oven, the temp take a fairly big dip. Then recovers over 1-2 mins.
The actual dip is not avoidable, but I felt the recovery time could be shortened.

Most ovens we are all using has more open space than we actually use for a tray of boolits. So what I trialed today was placing a series of thick clay pavers/bricks slightly spaced across the bottom of the oven and a row one the top shelf each side of the fan outlet.
These act as heat soaks, it takes slightly longer to get the oven to target temperature, but once at temp, opening the door to load a tray in and closing the door again, I have found the temperature rapidly climbs back to datum point as the heat soak blocks reheat the new air back to temp.

Also cold lead going into the oven is syphoning off available heat. Instead of asking the element to do all the work, the oven theoretically now has a amount of "stored temp" to help bring the lead up to temp faster.

Copper blocks would work just as well, but I dont have any laying around, I do know how hot these paving bricks get in the sun, and how long they hold heat for.. I shall report back tommorow on how this idea works out.

[Ausglock]

HI-TEK Joe called in and said G'day yesterday. I gave him your abortions of bullets, Grem. So he can see what you have done.
Joe has been on holidays. Drinking bourbon and perving on bikini babes on the Gold Coast.
He is now refreshed and ready to mix a heap of coatings.
The HI-TEK "Drycoat" (aka EZECOTE) experimental coatings are working great. I have tried the DDR and Gold with excellent results. Going to load and fire them this Sunday. There are 4 more Drycoat samples to mix and test, so they are getting done this week.

[Gremlin460]

I have tried diff temps with poor results so going back to the 200c temp and now trying various bake times, if I cant get this fixed in the next week, I will try powder coating.
Those bullets I sent you are done following the instructions exactly, and I mean exactly to the letter, so something in my process is wrong.
I have no doubt at all this coating works, I just need to get it to work for me.

Last week my barrel looked like I had been using it to stir the flux into the pot after 12 rounds shot through it.
In the mean time I found the guy who loaded for me used ADI 50 powder which is not listed for pistol. I don't know if incorrect powder will cause leading, I gave him some cash and told him to buy ADI 70 which is mentioned in the reloading manuals for pistol.
Did I mention waiting for the licence to buy my own powder and primers sux's??
Also I remelted EVERY single proj. I had cast and once again poured all the mixed coating away.
Back to a fresh mix, in a fresh bottle with fresh everything and a retry at getting this to work.

If nothing else I am not ready (quite) to give up on this.

[kweidner]

I have tried diff temps with poor results so going back to the 200c temp and now trying various bake times, if I cant get this fixed in the next week, I will try powder coating.
Those bullets I sent you are done following the instructions exactly, and I mean exactly to the letter, so something in my process is wrong.
I have no doubt at all this coating works, I just need to get it to work for me.

Last week my barrel looked like I had been using it to stir the flux into the pot after 12 rounds shot through it.
In the mean time I found the guy who loaded for me used ADI 50 powder which is not listed for pistol. I don't know if incorrect powder will cause leading, I gave him some cash and told him to buy ADI 70 which is mentioned in the reloading manuals for pistol.
Did I mention waiting for the licence to buy my own powder and primers sux's??
Also I remelted EVERY single proj. I had cast and once again poured all the mixed coating away.
Back to a fresh mix, in a fresh bottle with fresh everything and a retry at getting this to work.

If nothing else I am not ready (quite) to give up on this.

Do not give up! It took me since Feb. to get ALL my loads running it. I have now shot 40, 45, and nine in too many different guns to count It took me a heck of alot more than that when i first started casting to get em all right. I am now loading commercially with it and will never look back. Consistent measurements of product and CONSISTENT heat are critical. I pm'd 45 nut about being a vendor sponsor. haven't heard back........Maybe soon. This sight gave me the information and courage to start a business I have wanted for 15 years. I am in full production selling loaded rounds now with this incredible coating. Thanks Joe, Thanks Donnie!

[fastfire]

Two part video whichshows complete process

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=hi-tek%20coating%20&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC0QtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVev KJgHseWc&ei=rqDHUaamKZPC9gTcroDQCg&usg=AFQjCNGomTeAe2XMsirqx7fcoTztXC9okw&bvm=bv.48293060,d.eWU

I like the idea of the upside down press, looks like it makes sizing a lot faster.

[HI-TEK]

Thanks much for your blog and update.
I am very pleased that you have sorted out things.
How are you now finding the coating procedures, and, since you had refined your process?
Please post your photos of products you make so we can all have a look.
Joe

[leadman]

I find doing the coating process is very easy now. A few things are very critical to good sucess. #1 is temperature control. Get a pid controller and convection oven. #2 is do not vary the amount of coating or catalyst. the acetone can be varied from 5 to about 7 parts. #3 is do the acetone wipe test on each coat. #4. Drying & cooking time will vary by the weight of the boolit, heavier takes longer.

I have found that the resistance type thermostats in the toaster & small convection ovens seem to work their best for a few loads of boolits, then either allows the temps to go too high or not high enough. I take a quick peek at the cooking boolits halfway thru the cycle and have learned to judge the proper conditions by the appearance of the coating. I still use the pid, etc. to be safe.

kweidner, I met with alot of resistance to boolits coated with HT at first, but small samples given out free usually change the shooters mind. Had one outspoken guy that did not understand the process so I sent him some samples, he is now a very happy user.

If coating large diameter boolits it is good to add some smaller diameter boolits as it will distribute the coating better. Learned this when coating some .475 diameter boolits. Best to seperate them before baking.

I started with the Red Copper and it is a very good coating, especially for magnum handgun and rifles. I then bought some gold and found that it covers the boolit in a more even coating of the color. Both cover the boolit in the base with no problem, just more even color with the gold. I have not tried the other colors.

So far my method of baking the heat treated linotype is the only way I have found to retain heat treat hardness. I place the coated boolits in a 375 degree oven and watch the temp gauge. At 375 degrees I cut the temp back to 350 degrees. When the temp is at 350 degrees I turn the oven off if less than 5 minutes remain the timer. When the timer goes off I remove the boolits, cool, wipe test, coat and repeat the baking. I use the Extreme 2 cat for this. I am able to keep the boolits at about 32 BHN this way. I am going to experiment further with water quenched boolits.
Water Quenching the boolits after baking does not seem to be very effective at adding hardness.

I am recovering well from my surgery and had the good news that the tumor was benign so I am a happy caster!

[Moonman]

The Gold and the Green along with some Extreme II Catalyst arrived today from

Donnie at Bayou Bullets, Quick Service.

I have a busy weekend scheduled, so next week I'll start experimenting with this method.

[Love Life]

The coating is easy. My oven dial is set to 400 degrees, but I have no idea what temp it really is. It just works.

I cook 9mm and 38/357 projectiles for 9 minutes and 15 seconds
40 cal and 45 projectiles get 10 minutes and 10 seconds.
I shake the tray of bullets at the halfway point while cooking.

I allow the oven 2 minutes of recovery time after removing a batch of bullets.

A very easy product to use, and no fiddling required for my load development. No leading, no flaking, etc.

As said above, you can eyeball the coating to tell how it's doing in the oven.

I use 5-1-10 for the 1st coat which goes on very thin. The bullets are a browned color after baking the 1st coat. I use 5-1-7 for the second coat so they look purty.

[prickett]

Play with time rather than temp.
The commercial casters actually bake for only 5 minutes at elevated temps and have no problems.

We are limited by the small ovens we are using. I see Heller have a 28 Litre oven now. They have dis-continued the 48 liter that I use.

We need sticky replies within sticky topics! This is good info.

[btroj]

I just put coat one on about 3500 125 gr 9 mm bullets. I did 1/5/7 and used about 90 ml to coat all those bullets. They are getting an overnight drying, will bake em tomorrow. Might be a bit thin but I can add more.

[Ausglock]

I think the commercial caster here use 20mls per 1000 9mm bullets. So you are not far off the mark.
I loaded and fired 2 lots of the new drycoating system today.
1 tablespoon (10 gms) to 50mls of Acetone in the Gold and the DDR.
Coated fine wiped and smashed fine. Shot great, accurate and clean barrel.
There are 3 more Dry coats to mix and try.
A pearl Yellow, Red 254 (FER) and a red brown that give a nice bronzie brown as a liquid coating. I hope the dry cat stays the same colour as I like it.

There was a blue dry coat. But it didn't stay blue. I'm going to try mixing some of the blue with the gold to see if I can get a light green in the dry coat.

Hitek Joe said that he has sent test samples of his Dry coat, EZECOTE (call it what you will) to a select few in the US to try. I'd be interested to see how their testing compares to mine.

I really think the Dry coat process will be far easier for the home coater to use than the liquid coating. And cheaper to transport too.

[Cajunconcealment]

I use Donnie's coating, i find my problem is using to much coating.
Its takes so very little on the initial coat .
But just bought new convection oven to try and improve my production.
Donnie's service and help is second to none. Its rare to find some eager to help and answer Every email quickly.

Shane

[Gateway Bullets]

Trev


I think the commercial caster here use 20mls per 1000 9mm bullets. So you are not far off the mark.
I loaded and fired 2 lots of the new drycoating system today.
1 tablespoon (10 gms) to 50mls of Acetone in the Gold and the DDR.
Coated fine wiped and smashed fine. Shot great, accurate and clean barrel.
There are 3 more Dry coats to mix and try.
A pearl Yellow, Red 254 (FER) and a red brown that give a nice bronzie brown as a liquid coating. I hope the dry cat stays the same colour as I like it.

There was a blue dry coat. But it didn't stay blue. I'm going to try mixing some of the blue with the gold to see if I can get a light green in the dry coat.

Hitek Joe said that he has sent test samples of his Dry coat, EZECOTE (call it what you will) to a select few in the US to try. I'd be interested to see how their testing compares to mine.

I really think the Dry coat process will be far easier for the home coater to use than the liquid coating. And cheaper to transport too.


I thought you were not suppose to let the "cat out of the bag"! Lol I received my samples last week and will be testing ASAP. I think this will be a game changer for sure! How was your visit with Hi-Tek last week?

It's deer season here in Missouri and I do have my priorities. So when I'm done trying to shoot Bambi this weekend, I will try to post some pics.

Here are some pics of the product to wet your whistle!

GUYS, DO NOT BOTHER HI-TEK ABOUT THIS PRODUCT PLEASE. IT IS STILL MONTHS BEFORE ITS READY HERE IN THE STATES. TO BE FAIR TO HI TEK, HE DOESNT NEED A MILLION EMAILS ASKING ABOUT IT.

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