simple Hi-Tek coating

[dansedgli]

Bummer.

Hopefully he will still to mags and dawson stuff.

Is it ok to coat and let it dry overnight? It will probably get down to 10 degrees tonight.

[HI-TEK]

Bummer.

Hopefully he will still to mags and dawson stuff.


dansedgli;
Is it ok to coat and let it dry overnight? It will probably get down to 10 degrees tonight.

No problems with leaving it over night. The only thing you must remember is, that coating during drying, and storage of coated cast before baking, can trap moisture especially in cool and humid conditions.
That trapped moisture has to be removed with warm air drying before baking.
If it is cool weather, drying is very slow and coating can seem dry, but it is not.
This is most important to consider with first coat, to get best bonding during bake, by simply warm air dry, and test bake only a few first. If they are OK after bake, then bake the rest that had been warm air dried.

[dansedgli]

Thankyou. Ill coat tonight then put the fan on them in the morning and cook on my lunch break.

[HI-TEK]

Thankyou. Ill coat tonight then put the fan on them in the morning and cook on my lunch break.

dansedgli,
how did things go with what I suggested?

[Petander]

Excellent results with my HCL-soaked Mystery Alloy right away.

229468

[HI-TEK]

Excellent results with my HCL-soaked Mystery Alloy right away.

229468


You did a great job.
As we had found, that new Gold is absolutely brilliant. Finish actually looks like Gold metal.
The K-15 looks also great. You now have become the master of coating.

[HI-TEK]

Results of local competition, last week end
our Ausglock (Trevor) scored a perfect 100.
It must have been the Kryptonite Green that gave him Superman Powers.
I inspected his gun today (not cleaned after match), and after 300 plus rounds through it, and bore was shiny and clean
and a bit of powder dust residue was the only thing visible.

[dansedgli]

dansedgli,
how did things go with what I suggested?

I ended up coating them the next morning instead. Just in case they got too much moisture in them overnight.

I have a convenient system now. I coat 7 trays of 2.5kgs before work and put the fan on them, cooking them at lunchtime. After they cool for 10 minutes or so I recoat and put the fan on them then cook again after work. I do around 2000 each day this way and it is easy.

I won the Tasmanian titles on the weekend using them, beating the current 9 time (or thereabouts) national champ.

I'm going to buy one of Grem460's contraptions to speed up the sizing process and look further into automating the master caster. I need to speed up production.

[HI-TEK]

I ended up coating them the next morning instead. Just in case they got too much moisture in them overnight.

I have a convenient system now. I coat 7 trays of 2.5kgs before work and put the fan on them, cooking them at lunchtime. After they cool for 10 minutes or so I recoat and put the fan on them then cook again after work. I do around 2000 each day this way and it is easy.

I won the Tasmanian titles on the weekend using them, beating the current 9 time (or thereabouts) national champ.

I'm going to buy one of Grem460's contraptions to speed up the sizing process and look further into automating the master caster. I need to speed up production.

Congratulations Champ.
The extra drying obviously worked.
Next thing, is a full time production.
Keep it up.

[dansedgli]

I'm looking to reduce the time taken to make bullets, not increase it. :smile:

[Tazza]

I'm looking to reduce the time taken to make bullets, not increase it. :smile:

hehe, i wish the same, yet the only way around it that i can work out is to get someone else to do it.....

I spent Sunday casting 125rn and coating/cooking previous batches. The Red looks awesome, the K15 black went on really well too. Dries so much faster that the previous stuff i used, gives me a work out as i shake the container to coat projectiles.

I think it was last week i stuffed up, i cooked about 16,000 projectiles, on the last tray i noticed that i had the temperature at 150c and not 200..... I had to cook the lot again for the polymer to create its chainy goodness that would not wipe off with acetone :( Lesson learned! I make sure to check the temperature every time.

[dansedgli]

16,000!

Do you sell bullets commercially?

[Ausglock]

Congrats, Dan. Great win in Tassie.
Just to carify...... My 100% was only the first day's result for the Newcastle match. My squad shot all the high point stages on Saturday. The god Squad shot them Sunday.

My final was 3rd Open Div. B Grade and 13th overall in Open.

A large percentage of competitors were using Susan Island Bullets Green Goodness with the Kryptonite Green.
I called in to see HITEK Joe today on my way home, just to show how clean the Barrel and Compensator of my STI TruBor was after 300 odd rounds at Major power factor.

[Tazza]

16,000!

Do you sell bullets commercially?

I sell a few projectiles to people at my local range, I'm not commercial, i couldn't keep up. I can do about 6 to 7k per day wirh my auto master caster. I only get one day per weekend to 'play'.

[dansedgli]

Do you have many problems with it not dropping projectiles? Thats my only concern.

Sometimes it takes several taps to clear the molds.

[Ausglock]

Dan. Try and find a Ballisticast mark X or the NVB copy.
We have 2 of the Mark X manual machines with 4 molds in each machine. They can easily do 2000 per hour with no problem. We now use these for small orders, while the Ballisti autocaster is cranking out the high volume pills.

The Mark X schitz all over the Master caster for speed and ease of use.

[Tazza]

Do you have many problems with it not dropping projectiles? Thats my only concern.

Sometimes it takes several taps to clear the molds.

Sadly, some times yes. I soot the moulds with an acetylene flame wh ern it starts to stick.

The main issue i have is lead build up under the sprue cutter. I can oil it and it does a few hundred but starts over. I can't just leave it alone

I'd love a bullet mark x but can't justify it for what i do a year. I bet i sell in a year what ausgock does in a week :)

[Ausglock]

Tazz. Get some of Joe's Mold release spray. it will stop the lead on the sprueplate bottom and also help with bullets dropping. Mix it with Metho and use it in a pump spray bottle. $2 at Bunnies.

I use a tiny bit of white lithuim spray grease in a cotton bud to lube the sprue plate, just a tiny dab near the sprue bolt works great.

[Tazza]

It doesn't mess with the application of hitek? I try and avoid any lube on the cast just in case.

I have been using air tool oil to wipe on the cutter with success, for a time. Just not a long time....

[Ausglock]

Neither will cause issues with the coating.

[kbstenberg]

I am not a on this thread too often. Where can i find information on Joe and his lube?

[HI-TEK]

I am not a on this thread too often. Where can i find information on Joe and his lube?

Hi kbstenberg
The best place to get these lubes and release agents is from Donnie Miculek at Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings.
He is a vendor sponsor of this site.

[Petander]

I made a mistake and applied a double dose of coating solution while trying new coatings. I baked them anyway to see what happens. I put 4ml /2 lbs... did two little batches at once,gold and black.

First coat looked surprisingly good,glossy and even- and most of the lube grooves were filled - they wiped and smashed fine. I have 20 ml denatured alcohol added to the 20g/100ml mix for easier dry weather swirling. It's snow here.

This new gold is forgiving for mistakes. After first bake smash pic here:

229561

I repeated my mistake and the gold ones just kept getting better with a second coat. Black became a little rough looking from too much coating at once. But it passes all the tests,just not as spotless glossy as gold.

[Petander]

Here they are,two thick coats:

229562.

This is way too much coating at once and completely against Hi-Tek instructions, my HCL cleaned bullets may have something to do with my results. The new gold really likes my alloy.

I bet triple coated can take some serious velocity.

[Tazza]

I too have had some really nice results from a thin base coat, then two heavier coats that mostly fill the lube grooves and pass smash and wipe tests.

I could possibly tumble longer to try and get coating in the grooves to look "pretty", but it's working for me. I put them in a sealed container and shake for 20 or so seconds, dump out on a sheet of laminated MDF board to dry. They are possibly a little wetter than the instructions state, but not wet enough to have pools of coating under them and look great, do not stick together.

When i finally get my concrete mixer style coating setup done, i plan on trying a thinner mixture, but more of it so it will swirl around more and evaporate the solvent, leaving the same amount of physical coating on the projectiles, just taking longer to tumble and evaporate the excess solvent.

[Petander]

I too have had some really nice results from a thin base coat, then two heavier coats that mostly fill the lube grooves and pass smash and wipe tests.


That's how I normally do,a thin alcohol diluted first coat. I have two bottles for each colour,diluted and normal. I'll try to load these thick coated gold boolits asap. They feel really right and durable to touch.

Dry winter weather may like more alcohol for everything. My first Hi-Tek winter is coming and I like it,like it,yes I do.

[Tazza]

Can i ask what bottles you use? i am currently using old glass jars, but they don't seal well and when i shake, the stuff gets EVERYWHERE. I need to tape the lids when not in use or else the acetone evaporates and i'm left with dry hi-tek. It does re-dissolve in acetone, but how much powder is there and how much solvent do i add? I just guess and it works. Thankfully, it is quite forgiving.

Hopefully you won't have issue with winter weather, it may take a little longer for the solvents to evaporate. The main thing i remember Joe being concerned about was moisture, i have not had issues, even with our humid weather in Brisbane.

[Petander]

229565

Kitchen things,I have no idea what to call these. They seal pretty good and don't melt in acetone.

It looks that in winter acetone evaporates faster because air is very dry. I quickly added alcohol after trying a normal mix,couldn't swirl for five seconds I think. I do my coating in room temp. Pianos and gun stocks crack,guitar necks warp and shrink...

Relative humidity % can be high outside. But when you heat that same air to room temp it means it's very dry inside. RH drops drastically. Many people use humidifiers for health reasons.

[Ausglock]

Moccona coffee jars with the plastic seal are good large opening that allows the 10ml Syringe easy entry.

[ioon44]

I use 9 oz to 14 oz dish soap bottles with snap on caps, these hold up to Acetone and seal air tight.
I use 125/20 mix for the first coat and 100/20 for the second coat, I have not done a third coat for a long time.

[Tazza]

Thanks for the tips, just need to find some said jars and bottles.

I do a third coat just for looks, i think if i used a metalic, i could get away with 2 coats.

[Grmps]

https://i.imgur.com/c4lObkD.jpg

[Tazza]

hehe oldie bit a goodie.

[Petander]

Got my Hard Alloy XRF:d now:

229689



229690.

[HI-TEK]

Got my Hard Alloy XRF:d now:

229689



229690.



Petander,
You also have nearly 0.2% Copper in your alloy.
From smash pictures, it seems that the alloy is very hard and actually splits with Smash tests.
The coating remains on alloy.

Ausglock has coated the Gold Composite and sized it. He will be shooting it Saturday.

He also has found a "blue" made in 2013. I am going to try and find the recipe, as it seems, that aside from being very dark, it seems to be Blue in the sun.
If I find recipe, I will experiment to see if I can get it to work without going Green or another strange colour.

[Tazza]

I noticed the copper too, seemed weird to be suspended in lead, but can' see it causing issues. Did "white metal" contain copper/ the stuff used for bearings in he olden days.

Looking forward to seeing how the blue turns out, there have been a few people asking about it.

[HI-TEK]

I noticed the copper too, seemed weird to be suspended in lead, but can' see it causing issues. Did "white metal" contain copper/ the stuff used for bearings in he olden days.

Looking forward to seeing how the blue turns out, there have been a few people asking about it.


Tazza, This colour has driven me close to jumping off a bridge in frustration.
Every Blue shad I have tried, (there were dozens) over many years, none ended up blue.
There are many technical reasons, and I wont try to elaborate, but in short there is a reaction with Blues with Hi-Tek and it destroys original colour.
Examining this 2013 recipe, this one seems to not have the chemical make up composition of the others, that I am predicting, may be OK.

A reformulation may work, but also, it may not. I am not counting my chickens until they are fully grown.

[Petander]

Petander,
You also have nearly 0.2% Copper in your alloy.
From smash pictures, it seems that the alloy is very hard and actually splits with Smash tests.
The coating remains on alloy.

Ausglock has coated the Gold Composite and sized it. He will be shooting it Saturday.

.

I try to load and shoot some when I get out of this chemistry class. :)

This alloy 18 BHN and gold is just bonding very,very good. Black has some gold in it if you look carefully, I cleaned a black bowl by coating gold in it.

What do you think of Niobium? I read that it easily reacts with non-metals when warmed up.

229729.

This will lead to many more XrF:s. Very educational.

[HI-TEK]

.

I try to load and shoot some when I get out of this chemistry class. :)

This alloy 18 BHN and gold is just bonding very,very good. Black has some gold in it if you look carefully, I cleaned a black bowl by coating gold in it.

What do you think of Niobium? I read that it easily reacts with non-metals when warmed up.

229729.

This will lead to many more XrF:s. Very educational.

I have always wondered what sorts of alloys are there around the world.
You may have gotten onto the point of "reaction" It is possible that this material may have formed compounds with the coating at surface. Who knows what the reaction was.
I could not even guess at this. I have never had any thing to do with Niobium. It is all new to me also.
With Your Acid soaking, you may have Niobium Chloride being formed. It is a guess.

[Petander]

With Your Acid soaking, you may have Niobium Chloride being formed. It is a guess..

Something starts to sizzle right away in HCL. Can't be lead or copper,tin maybe later on,not immediately.

I may have invented World's First Niobium Boolits. Go figure.

[Grmps]

Copper is supposed to make the alloy more elastomeric (hold together better) good for higher speed boolits

Petander's Est alloy hardness == 20.3 BHN

[Avenger442]

Joe
You know I'm in for some of the blue if it turns out that it cooks to a blue.
I used some of the orange, that goes burnt orange when you bake it, on some .380 hollow points last night. Love that color. And some of the original liquid Gold 1035 on some .308s. That has been the one I have used the most.

Grmps is correct. Many on the forum have added some copper to bullets to make them more malleable yet high BHN. I would do it as a regular thing. But it is a time consuming process. And I can get what I want without it. Still, it is something to learn for the small bullet high pressure loads and anyone who wants to run their bullets at max loads while using Hi Tek. There are several threads on this forum where you can learn how to do it. What Grmps said about 20.3 BHN can be exceeded.

[Petander]

My Hard Alloy (the one XrF:d) gets brittle around 18 BHN. Still sort of "malleable".

229755.


But hey,can Aqualube 3000 be used as a bullet mould release agent,too? I never used any,just noticed what it says on the bottle.

229756

[HI-TEK]

229756[/ATTACH]

The Aqualube is used a dry film non contaminating lubricant release agent anti-stick.
There is another product, for mold release of molten metals, Hi-Tek 500 PLUS. This will stop Lead and alloy spatter sticking to surfaces, and is also a potent lubricant.
With release applications for Aqualube , it is used to stop things like Fiberglass resin, glues and similar from bonding, especially when moulding various shapes.
This material is used for aerosolised applications where no solvents are used.
It lubricates and stops binding/sticking between all surfaces, metal, synthetic or combinations.
It is used to lubricate wooden drawers to stop wear on rails, and make drawer slide like silk. It is also used when cutting Aluminium to stop metal pick up on the blade.
Once applied to a surface, it is extremely difficult to remove as it becomes totally insoluble with all cleaners/solvents.
DONT SPILL IT ONTO THE FLOOR, extremely slippery. If you spill it, it is a sandblasting removal.

[eljefeoz]

Gday fellas
HITEK is now blooded.
a recent trip for fallow had me use cast 380 gr GC from a Hoch mould, coated with HITEK bronze, with a BHN of approx 12.Over 28 gr of Blue Dot in the .404 J
Texas heart shot on a fallow at about 50-60 m, mate saw the bullet exit from the front.
the fallow didnt miss a step, ran about 20m and collapsed into a blackberry thicket
Trying to gut him, we found the entire abdominal cavity was mostly mush, a handspan worth of exit in the chest. So how did he go so far??
So we got away with the backstraps and one drumsticks, saving the rest for the cocky's dogs.
Pics when I figure out how to upload on photobucket.
End of that day had 5 shots of Hitek and jacketed fired. I didnt clean the rifles until 2 days later, a very faint wisp of residue- gone in 2-3 patches
Cheers

[dikman]

Sounds like you had a good day, mate.:drinks:

[Petander]

I chronoed TMG Gold today with a Marlin, it was 1975 fps, quite a bit faster than I thought. I shot a 20 box now, ten yesterday and it felt like a light load.

I'm not used to this light (325 grain) bullets. Very easy to shoot imo. Absolutely zery leading,I even verified with The Dip. And the barrel is visibly factory rough. SBL Marlin may have better ergonomy than my old one used to have,recoil-wise. But this load is a fun plinker,50 grains VV N130. BHN 16,boo size 4595,expander 459. RCBS 45-325-RN seated to crimp groove,light crimp,CCI mag rifle primer,three coats TMG Gold. Drop weight 324.

What else? Oh,I I had pork stew for dinner. I have coated 18 BHN version,too,I may push them faster for fun.

229819

229820

[Grmps]

Posting on IMGUR is easier mate

Posting pictures using IMGUR
1) Go to https://imgur.com/
2)Select sign up: Fill out information or register with: facebook, twitter, Google+ or Yahoo account
3)Log into your account
4)Click on your name and select images
5) click on the Add Images box (upper right) -- click on browse and find your picture
or
6) On your computer, rt click on the picture you want to upload and hit copy (or hit control C)
7) go back to IMGUR, L click on the girafe/up arrow and either rt click and select paste or hit control V
or (the easiest way), IF you have more than 1 monitor, drag the picture you want and drop it anywhere on the IMGUR screen
8) On IMGUR, Left click on the picture you want
9) Then click on COPY next to [BBCode (message boards & forums)]
10)Go to the post you want to put the image in, either right click and select paste or hit [Ctrl + V]
11) Save your post and you're done.

photobucket has had a lot of problems (the blokes got greedy) and is on the way out.

[HI-TEK]

Posting on IMGUR is easier mate

Posting pictures using IMGUR
1) Go to https://imgur.com/
2)Select sign up: Fill out information or register with: facebook, twitter, Google+ or Yahoo account
3)Log into your account
4)Click on your name and select images
5) click on the Add Images box (upper right) -- click on browse and find your picture
or
6) On your computer, rt click on the picture you want to upload and hit copy (or hit control C)
7) go back to IMGUR, L click on the girafe/up arrow and either rt click and select paste or hit control V
or (the easiest way), IF you have more than 1 monitor, drag the picture you want and drop it anywhere on the IMGUR screen
8) On IMGUR, Left click on the picture you want
9) Then click on COPY next to [BBCode (message boards & forums)]
10)Go to the post you want to put the image in, either right click and select paste or hit [Ctrl + V]
11) Save your post and you're done.

photobucket has had a lot of problems (the blokes got greedy) and is on the way out.


Grmps
Thanks a lot, I hope I can master this system. Practice makes perfect.

[HI-TEK]

I chronoed TMG Gold today with a Marlin, it was 1975 fps, quite a bit faster than I thought. I shot a 20 box now, ten yesterday and it felt like a light load.

I'm not used to this light (325 grain) bullets. Very easy to shoot imo. Absolutely zery leading,I even verified with The Dip. And the barrel is visibly factory rough. SBL Marlin may have better ergonomy than my old one used to have,recoil-wise. But this load is a fun plinker,50 grains VV N130. BHN 16,boo size 4595,expander 459. RCBS 45-325-RN seated to crimp groove,light crimp,CCI mag rifle primer,three coats TMG Gold. Drop weight 324.

What else? Oh,I I had pork stew for dinner. I have coated 18 BHN version,too,I may push them faster for fun.

229819

229820



All I can say is WOW

I heard, is that eljefeoz has blooded the Hi-Tek and was enjoying some very large drumsticks.
I recall the Guy at Gateway, was smoking and roasting some Deer and making spicy sausages. Would not tell me his recipe.

[eljefeoz]

All I can say is WOW

I heard, is that eljefeoz has blooded the Hi-Tek and was enjoying some very large drumsticks.
I recall the Guy at Gateway, was smoking and roasting some Deer and making spicy sausages. Would not tell me his recipe.

Thanks, Fellas.
Let me try and wrap my head around the imgr

Enjoying the venison pilaf and stew for Sunday lunch, Joe. Now to work on some 8-10 BGH cast and see how they go on the little critters. I have a couple of boxes of Saeco and RCBS HITEK -was in Texas tea and bronze, in 7x57, loaded to 1800 fps to try out on game.

[Ausglock]

IMGUR is easy as...
https://i.imgur.com/UQUUcHR.jpg

[Petander]

458 Socom was success as well. The same RCBS 325 RF as with Marlin above, here it goes 1750 fps, TMG Gold. No lead anywhere. Aqualubed,too. That stuff is the slipperiest slip that ever slipped!

229909

229910

[Petander]

A HCL-washed bullet looks pretty when it's not rinsed after wash. Salt in the pores.


http://i64.tinypic.com/21l3ez9.jpg

[Tazza]

Sure shows the difference. I can see why it gives such a good bonding surface

[Petander]

My Mystery Alloy really likes TMG Gold. Very forgiving. These are a little overbaked with a slight green tint which I like. Depends on the light.

But the coating is very tough and elastic,even I can't mess this up!


http://i63.tinypic.com/n6rkmc.jpg

[dansedgli]

I got a new gun for cheap in 357 sig a few weeks ago. I havent loaded 357 sig for about 6 months.

I went to top up my master caster and found a bucket full of 168 zk knock offs already cast. #winning

229985

[Tazza]

Looks awesome, even better when the price is right.

[Ausglock]

I got a new gun for cheap in 357 sig a few weeks ago. I havent loaded 357 sig for about 6 months.

I went to top up my master caster and found a bucket full of 168 zk knock offs already cast. #winning

229985

nice blaster.

HITEK Joe is in Hospital.
Poor old coot has come down with the dog's disease.

[dansedgli]

$980 with 6 mags and a DAA big range bag. :D

What's the dog's disease?

I just sent him an email too.

I hope he recovers soon.

[Tazza]

Great deal

Poor sod, some nasty stuff going around up here, keep it away.

Dog disease will just be the flu, must be pretty bad for him to be laid up in hospital.

Get well soon buddy. Enjoy the rest time while they feed you the good drugs

[Ausglock]

Dan. You bloody Burglar... How do you sleep at night???:bigsmyl2:

Poor old Coot has Influenza 3... The worst there is. Just talked to him.
His Dr. is going to take his stones out while he is in there too.
If ya don't use them, ya don't need them...lol

[Tazza]

Owie.....

Wonder what else they will offer to do while in there?

Use it or loose it they say

[Petander]

Hope all goes well,Joe. The World needs more TMG Gold.


http://i67.tinypic.com/2vwb47t.jpg

[slide]

Tell him we will all be praying for him.

[Stephen Cohen]

Owie.....

Wonder what else they will offer to do while in there?

Use it or loose it they say

What ever else they offer to do he will be too sick to enjoy poor bugger. Regards Stephen

[Avenger442]

Joe
We are all remembering you in our prayers while you are sick. Here's to a quick recovery.

Trevor
Do you know if he had a flu shot? We have had several here that got the flu after taking the flu vaccine. Several that took the shot also had other problems.

[popper]

Petander - your alloy has too much Sb, cut it to ~4% (you are about at superhard - very brittle and hard to cast). That will reduce the Cu. Cu is GOOD. Add some back in to get ~0.3-0.5% and they will do great.

[Ausglock]

Joe
We are all remembering you in our prayers while you are sick. Here's to a quick recovery.

Trevor
Do you know if he had a flu shot? We have had several here that got the flu after taking the flu vaccine. Several that took the shot also had other problems.
I think he did.
I had mine in May and it didn't work. Was sick as buggery with the flu and then got Pneumonia as well.

[Tazza]

My doctor used to always encourage patients to get flu shots every year. He never used to get one, till the year he did and was the sickest he had ever been.

They are a good idea and work for a lot of people, but you hear about so many that get really sick anyway.

[dansedgli]

I did the first coat on what I thought was the last of my 357 sig bullets 20 minutes ago. I took that bucket away (now that I can lift it) and found 3/4 of another bucket of them. :D

At least 60kg all up which is about 5000 projectiles. That saves me some time. :D

It took some work to get the price on that gun that low. It came with a bunch of other stuff that I had to sell off but I've done pretty good out of it I reckon.

[Tazza]

I like deals like that, you spend 1k on a bulk lot, then proceed to sell the un-wanted stuff bring the price down. Sadly i don't see many deals like that often :(

[dansedgli]

I spend a lot of my day on usedguns. haha

[Tazza]

Nice.

I saw a 1911 in 9mm on there stupidly cheap, but got no answer back. I was so very sad but un surprised as it seemed too good to be true

[Petander]

Petander - your alloy has too much Sb, cut it to ~4% (you are about at superhard - very brittle and hard to cast). That will reduce the Cu. Cu is GOOD. Add some back in to get ~0.3-0.5% and they will do great.

Yep,quite a bit too much monotype in there. Casts easy though. I can cut anti-money down,even though it shoots good,too. 18 BHN, I give it some pressure.

And most importantly: coats so good and easy I never thought possible. TMG Gold is flawless with my niobium-alloy I just coated 5 lbs and missed the timer for the last coat. So I went by feel,baking smell and looks. Perfect.

230212

[popper]

Ya supposed to leave off the GC on the smash test ones. :bigsmyl2:

[Petander]

Ya supposed to leave off the GC on the smash test ones. :bigsmyl2:

I can't because there is no Gas Check. This is a plain base bullet,funny how the coating makes the base look like a GC.

[dansedgli]

I think that's next year's worth of bullets cooked. :smile:

230230

[Ausglock]

Good work, Dan.
You are going to need all the practice you can get if you are going to beat the Golden Greek from WA... at the Nats.
Hope to catch up with you there and have a yarn.

I'm shooting Open in Pensioner Div.

[Stephen Cohen]

I think that's next year's worth of bullets cooked. :smile:

230230

If you lug those buckets around too much you wont be able to shoot while in traction. Regards Stephen

[Petander]

I think that's next year's worth of bullets cooked. :smile:

230230

Now that's very many a lot! :)

[Petander]

Look ma,no gas check:

230233.

I'm ready for grooveless moulds. When I think of what's going on when a bullet starts moving in the beginning, the case neck is expanding to (often oversize) chamber dimensions... I see more of a possible sealing problem with a grooved bullet. Without grooves the bullet is also stronger to take all that pressure from behind.

Just thinking.

[Avenger442]

Another advantage with grooveless is contact surface with the barrel.

[Grmps]

Trevor, hows Joe doing?

[Petander]

Another advantage with grooveless is contact surface with the barrel.

Absolutely.

I'm writing to Santa.

[Grmps]

Absolutely.

I'm writing to Santa.

Doesn't he live pretty close to you? :)

[popper]

Look at 31-165C for the proper way to do grooveless rifle moulds. 100yds, 2100 fps 145gr PB from 300BO AR carbine. Believe the 'spread' is from gas port base cutting.
230243

[Tazza]

****, have fun moving those buckets. When i dump mine into buckets, i work out where i want them to stay and fill them. I'm not going to even attempt to move a bucket with 120kg of lead in it.

[Ausglock]

Trevor, hows Joe doing?

Spoke to him on saturday. Still in confinement. Still whinging. I pity the hospital staff. If I were them, I'd drug him up so he passes out. one way to stop the complaints.

[Tazza]

Spoke to him on saturday. Still in confinement. Still whinging. I pity the hospital staff. If I were them, I'd drug him up so he passes out. one way to stop the complaints.

HAHAHAHA

I don't know him very well, but from the chats we have had on the phone, i can see him doing that :)

As long as he is on the mend, being sick sucks, being REALLY sick is far worse. Hopefully he doesn't whine too much to the nurses, they administer drugs, they know how to use NEEDLES. My mother in-law was a nurse, i have heard stories of what she used to do to unruly patients :)

[dansedgli]

****, have fun moving those buckets. When i dump mine into buckets, i work out where i want them to stay and fill them. I'm not going to even attempt to move a bucket with 120kg of lead in it.

I'm out of buckets!

[Petander]

Look at 31-165C for the proper way to do grooveless rifle moulds. 100yds, 2100 fps 145gr PB from 300BO AR carbine. Believe the 'spread' is from gas port base cutting.
230243

Looking good.

I have figured that the bigger caliber I cast for,the more money I save.

[Petander]

Doesn't he live pretty close to you? :)

Yep we use pigeons.

[HI-TEK]

Look at 31-165C for the proper way to do grooveless rifle moulds. 100yds, 2100 fps 145gr PB from 300BO AR carbine. Believe the 'spread' is from gas port base cutting.
230243


That is very impressive Popper.
What sort of ammo is normally used in such a gun?
Were these all just cast coated with Hi-Tek?
Would you get such accuracy with other ammo as well?
If you had some gas cutting. I am thinking that may be a dip of end into coating mix,( after successful 2 coats), can supply essentially a third coat at tail end, where heat needs to be reflected.
It seems, that the very high energy of load, you may need extra heat reflectance benefits. The coatings should give you some.
Great test for comparison to see what happens.

[popper]

Joe, those were PC not hitek. I did try the hitek trick on the base but just used BLL (alox) on the boolits for that test. Didn't work or at least not conclusive. Haven't been able to shoot anything for a couple months, darned rain (flooded the range shack to the rafters - supposed to be open for pistol today, maybe), want to go tomorrow but cold & rainy again.
You can load BO from 100gr to 240gr, very versatile case. I've got 168 GC and 185 GC Hitek'd to test in the 10" with soft alloy for pigs to test. The 145PB is for longer range from the carbine. That target show base damage, tested for that years ago in 40SW - cut a notch in the base and get a 'ring' of shots on target.

[HI-TEK]

To all members, that sent me get well wishes, I am truly grateful for kindness and kind thoughts.
I am recovering but slowly. Don't let any one tell you that Flu virus is small stuff. It nearly wiped me out.
I don't know how I got it but it really knocked me for a six.
I really appreciate the members sending me get well messages.
Thank you all.
Joe

[Ausglock]

You still alive????? I could have sworn I smelt something dead......:bigsmyl2:

[Tazza]

You still alive????? I could have sworn I smelt something dead......:bigsmyl2:

Brave man, your next order of hitek just got a LOT more expensive :)

[HI-TEK]

Brave man, your next order of hitek just got a LOT more expensive :)


He don't care, he has more product at his disposals than what I have. He built up massive stockpiles, planning ahead, in case I dropped off the perch.
He is a cunning so and so.....[smilie=6:

[Ausglock]

One has to be prepared for anything.
I have enough coating to last 2 lifetimes.
And that is just the powdered stuff.
Don't ask about the liquid coating stored in the fridge.

[Tazza]

Cunning indeed, sadly i'm not smart enough to plan ahead before i bite the hand that feeds me....

Good to know if i upset Joe, i have a backup, Trevor, 'ol buddy 'ol pal.....

We hope you are well nailed to the perch, you can't fall off

[HI-TEK]

Cunning indeed, sadly i'm not smart enough to plan ahead before i bite the hand that feeds me....

Good to know if i upset Joe, i have a backup, Trevor, 'ol buddy 'ol pal.....

We hope you are well nailed to the perch, you can't fall off



As I said he is cunning as.... always thinking.... you are battling a guy for stuff, that would not give you the steam off his dinner, tight as the proverbial….

So far, the perch is secure, no plans to check out as yet.

Having to put up with him for quite a while, my hide has armour plate hardening, and repels most all ….. now, it is almost impossible to get a rise out of me....
Having said that, there are a few that continue to wish that I fell off the perch.....

[Ausglock]

Bit like the Norwegian Blue Parrot..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218

[Avenger442]

All those years of working on construction projects with guys like Treavor has given me a thick skin, too. Now the only person that can get a rise out of me just for their fun is my wife. And I'm proud to say that she learned it from me. [smilie=l:

[Tazza]

As I said he is cunning as.... always thinking.... you are battling a guy for stuff, that would not give you the steam off his dinner, tight as the proverbial….

So far, the perch is secure, no plans to check out as yet.

Having to put up with him for quite a while, my hide has armour plate hardening, and repels most all ….. now, it is almost impossible to get a rise out of me....
Having said that, there are a few that continue to wish that I fell off the perch.....

****, now that sure is tight! I'll keep that in mind when i try and hit him up for a favor, i'll be sure to catch him when the planets align and he is in an awesome mood.

We have a bloke at the range that gets made fun of constantly, he has a thick hide as he knows it's all in good fun and makes him feel welcome. He tries to dish it back out, but sadly, he fails each and every time.

[Ausglock]

I'm always in an Awesome mood, when I'm pew pew pewing...

[Tazza]

I'm always in an Awesome mood, when I'm pew pew pewing...

No truer words have been spoken, unless your gun is having an off day, then the day contains a few too many choice 4 letter words.

[Petander]

Got some surprisingly good Lee 476 moulds. Testing here:TMG Gold can be double-baked to TMG Bronze. It stays tough,elastic and glossy.

It also gets a nice greenish tint when only slightly over-ripe. I really really like the quality I'm getting with this coating, I've been shooting plain base RCBS 45-325 45-70 bullets @ 2000 fps,no gas check.

Here are Lee 476:s, a 400 PB and a 325 GC.

230432

[HI-TEK]

Got some surprisingly good Lee 476 moulds. Testing here:TMG Gold can be double-baked to TMG Bronze. It stays tough,elastic and glossy.

It also gets a nice greenish tint when only slightly over-ripe. I really really like the quality I'm getting with this coating, I've been shooting plain base RCBS 45-325 45-70 bullets @ 2000 fps,no gas check.

Here are Lee 476:s, a 400 PB and a 325 GC.

230432

Hello Petander,
I am very impressed. I hate to say it but I think that the TMG Gold composite is possibly best product that is available. It is regretful that it costs so much more to produce than other coatings. But from what you and others found, it may be well worth the extra. The casts you have produced are extra ordinarily great.
Great stuff.
Local commercial guys who now use product here since development are extremely happy with results. Most use it for hand guns, but it looks like it is suitable for Rifle use as well. It is a shame that we have so many restrictions with guns and uses here, so I cant really get the full range of end use successes published from local reports. Thank you for publishing your findings. Please keep it up. Others greatly appreciate the benefits from your findings.
Joe

[Petander]

I think you have a hit product here. I sure am a TMG convert.

TMG also doesn't mind my WW alloy contaminants. Very easy to get a tough,durable,well bonded coating. No wipe test peculiarities.

I have also found that I can apply more TMG solution per coating,even as the first coat. Two coatings cover all the lube grooves. Last time I gave 8 ml to six pounds of bullets,twice.

[Ausglock]

HA... Joe will love you for using more coating... More $$$ in his pocket.
Go you good thing.

[Petander]

HA... Joe will love you for using more coating... More $$$ in his pocket.
Go you good thing.

Actually I'm using less. No more third coat and a 19gram / 100 ml ace/ 25 ml alcohol mix.

[shanep]

Finally got to test my loads with the hi tech zombie green. It was a success, might have had a trace of lead but I don't think it was lead. I just think the gun was dirty from never cleaned it when I bought it used. 40 cal and shot exceptional. I'm a fan. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181118/f386bf99e4648a8d98a4a4ed8cd8192a.jpg

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

[Ausglock]

There has been a lot of interest lately for a heavy bullet for 357Sig.
This is my 185gn FP.
Bloody long and has a lot of bullet down in the case.
Used for IPSC STD Div and Classic Div here in OZ.
https://i.imgur.com/YMO4xda.jpg

[HI-TEK]

There has been a lot of interest lately for a heavy bullet for 357Sig.
This is my 185gn FP.
Bloody long and has a lot of bullet down in the case.
Used for IPSC STD Div and Classic Div here in OZ.
https://i.imgur.com/YMO4xda.jpg

Ausglock
To me, the cast seems to be too far inside case, and not leave much room for primer and powder.
How does it seal in Barrell?
What sort of speed can be expected for this ammo? How much and type of powder do you use for such a monster???
I would not like to be in front of that piece of Lead when it is flying.....
Colour seems very dark for Kryptonite Green.... is it the lighting??

[Stephen Cohen]

Ausglock I recon they would be something in my 357 maximum rifle. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

Yep. It is the lighting.
4gns of AP-70 give a 171 power factor out of STI 2011. 31.5mm OAL.
Stephen A bloke in Brissy got some to try in 357Mag for Sillywets.

[Tazza]

It amazes me that you can fit 4 grains of 70 in there with that much projectile in the case. I don't shoot .357 sig, so i don't understand why they want such a heavy pill, i'd have thought it would be moving a lot slower so you have more drop at distance. I figure a lighter projectile will give less recoil, so go lighter and not heavier, yet we do have power factor to meet, so you need more powder to get the little ones moving fast enough.

I loved my .38 super open gun running 125 conicals, 8.2 of 100, it would shoot flat out to 200m and knock the steel plates over. Compare that to my .45 with 185 SWC for me to hit anything at 200, i had a good 3m hold over. Sadly i was forced to surrender that gun *wipes away tear*.

My open gun loads were quite compressed, good for consistency i guess, as there was no air gap.

[Grmps]

https://i.imgur.com/GEN0ilP.png

[Tazza]

hahaha

Poor tasmania, being eaten.

[Ausglock]

hahaha...
Tazza. I run 125gn SWC with 8.2gn AP-100 in the TruBor. goes 171 P/F

[Tazza]

I never actually ran mine over a chrono before i blew it up, we just do club level, so PF doesn't really come up. I think the last IPSC match i did was river city open in 2007, was an awesome weekend.

I used the exact same load here. Sure wakes the neighbors doing night time steel matches.

[Stephen Cohen]

hahaha

Poor tasmania, being eaten.

We in Australia use Tasmania to describe other things. Don't ask, That was cleaver Grmps. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

Hasn't the Tasmanian map now become Brazilian map???

[Petander]

There has been a lot of interest lately for a heavy bullet for 357Sig.
This is my 185gn FP.
Bloody long and has a lot of bullet down in the case.
Used for IPSC STD Div and Classic Div here in OZ.
https://i.imgur.com/YMO4xda.jpg

Coating looks absolutely great.

I load 163 grain FN:s for 9mm, it gets crowded,too.

230663

[dansedgli]

I got my star sizer running today with my mr bullet feeder. Can size almost 1 bullet per second. Ill lose 20kg sizing what I've got coated over the next few nights. :razz:

[Tazza]

I recently got my collator running too. At full speed i can do j just under 3k per hour. I could over drive the motor to go faster but then i have a possibility of projectiles nor dropping fast enough and jamming up on me. I need to get a video of it, all fabricobbled together from bits and pieces

[Ausglock]

Videos of your efforts or it didn't happen......

I have a Mr. Bullet feeder powered by a 19 volt laptop power supply... give it extra speed.
BTW... have you seen the mr. bullet feeder nose down conversion for sale on ipscstore.com? Bloody expensive.

[Tazza]

I'll do my best to set it up in the next few days, it may look ugly, but does the trick.

That is a pretty good idea, i powered mine from a 12v SLA with a speed control from ebay, it mostly keeps up but i do have a bunch of old lappy power packs. I have parts coming to try and run the collator with a stepper motor. The issue i have with the current setup is back lash in the gears and universal joints giving a good 1+cm of lash in the disc on the outer edge giving the occasional jam.

With currency conversion, it is a nasty price just for a nose down plate isn't it? I guess they figure you paid X amount for the feeder, what's a bit more? I get they need to make money from their R & D to get it running right then production. Keep it cheap, more people will be inclined to buy one.

[dansedgli]

Wow! I got mine off here for $20 I think.

Is your sizer a motor driven contraption Tazza?

[Tazza]

Wow! I got mine off here for $20 I think.

Is your sizer a motor driven contraption Tazza?

It's driven with an ebay bought 12v 6 or 8rpm motor from memory.

[Ausglock]

I just bought a second Mr. Bullet feeder from Mr. Crawford in Brissy. Classic shooters don't need them when they win them from the prize table.....I have already made the nose down conversion plate for it.

[Tazza]

Nice score indeed.

I need to get into doing matches to try my luck at raiding the table, i hear stories of the goodies up for grabs. The one i did years ago, it was cleared before i had my chance :(

BUT i got a trophy, doesn't matter that is was just cause i attended, i don't tell people that :)

[Tazza]

As requested "video or it didn't happen"
Sizer with nose down collator: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nKT6dPDxho

Little bitter video of the collator, at the end you can see and hear it jamming up due to lash in the gears when the projectile level gets low. When low, there is no friction to hold the plate steady. When there are flipped projectiles that rotate past the hole, it pulls the plate down, causing erratic motion. A stepper should fix this with direct drive as there will be no gearing required.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKwJpsWs_bw

All made from "junk" the only parts i had to buy was the speed control and the 6rpm motor, i was given or had the other bits and pieces.

[Ausglock]

try one of these.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-5RPM-Metal-Square-High-Torque-Geared-Motor-Silver/283260616645?hash=item41f3a5ffc5:g:edsAAOSwL49b7H9 2:rk:25:pf:0

[Tazza]

That is an option if the stepper doesn't work. Parts are already on the way.

Look like the mr bullet feeder motor

[dansedgli]

That's awesome! Good job Tazza!

[Ausglock]

That is an option if the stepper doesn't work. Parts are already on the way.

Look like the mr bullet feeder motor

Similar, but different.

[popper]

Range finally open after the flood. 8' h2o. BO pistol with 1035 gold ACWW with Cu. 168gr GC & 185gr GC, 18 gr CFE BLK. Never tried the 31-165C in the BO, just the 308W. 7 yds (got to get the eyes fixed). Not too bad guessing where the POA is - reflex site battery almost dead. Anyway, pretty soft alloy pushed hard 1:8 10". Pic still won't load but 4 shot groups ~ 1" with several doubles. Now for some hogs.

[dansedgli]

My arms are sore but this star sizer made quick work of my bucket of 122 FP's.

Now to load them all and not do it again for 6 months. :D

230816

[Ausglock]

My arms are sore but this star sizer made quick work of my bucket of 122 FP's.

Now to load them all and not do it again for 6 months. :D

230816

Must be good to have................
bench full on 1050's....:bigsmyl2:

[Tazza]

Nice job, hand sizing was my least favorite part of casting my own. My wife looked daggers at me when i sized in front of the tv with a bench and my trusty push trough sizer. Yet she had no issue spending the money i got when i sold any projectiles, go figure?

I'd be happy with just one 1050, all my reloading gear is red, it serves me well.... Most of the time at least, till it has primer issues *shakes fist at lee 1000*

I can't complain too much, it has loaded a few hundred thousand.

[dansedgli]

The 1050 you can see is going to a friend once I make sure it works ok. It was a bargain that I couldn't let get away.

The one under the cover with the mark 7 autodrive will likely stay with me until the government takes our guns away. I love it.

[Tazza]

Lucky friend, i never see any good deals on presses, or if i do, they are snapped up in seconds.

I'm like that with my automated master caster, i couldn't go back to casting by hand.

I wonder if they ever decided to ban ALL our guns, if they would have to buy back casting gear? They did buy back reloading dies for "banned" calibres, i bet they'd find a way to get out of it though...

[Ausglock]

The 1050 you can see is going to a friend once I make sure it works ok. It was a bargain that I couldn't let get away.

The one under the cover with the mark 7 autodrive will likely stay with me until the government takes our guns away. I love it.

Fitzy doesn't need anymore 1050's.... lol

[dansedgli]

lol not him. Another mate I sold a 650 to 3 weeks ago. :-P

Fitzy was too slow on this one it was $1500.

[Ausglock]

Happy Birthday dansedgli.
Ya bloody old fart. Senior soon???
Have a bloody great day,

[shanep]

Lucky friend, i never see any good deals on presses, or if i do, they are snapped up in seconds.

I'm like that with my automated master caster, i couldn't go back to casting by hand.

I wonder if they ever decided to ban ALL our guns, if they would have to buy back casting gear? They did buy back reloading dies for "banned" calibres, i bet they'd find a way to get out of it though...I'm interested in the master caster. Any advice.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

[Tazza]

I'm interested in the matter caster. Any advice.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

I automated mine based on the wyman/hatch setup, it's not as fast as a commercial machine, but it mostly keeps up with how much casting i need to get done. That little machine has cast a good 4-500,000 projectiles, the bare machine was bought used early 2000.

[Petander]

TMG Gold color palette:

230877

[Petander]

I like fully coated bullets,grooves filled.

TMG Gold can do it with two coats,a generous first coat gives no problems with my alloy/bake. I just baked 8 pounds of 158's, gave them 10 ml per coat,twice. My mix is 19g powder/100ml acetone/25ml alcohol. 11 min bake.

230884

This is one tough coating. Optional colors available by baking longer.

I hit the smashed bullet with a hammer four times.

[Tazza]

They look great. I hope to sling some k15 black on some 125rn tomorrow if i get time. I found a generous coat helps fill the lube groves too. I was running 20g to 120ml acetone. I haven't had issues with needing to slow down rhe solvent evaporating.

[Petander]

They look great. I hope to sling some k15 black on some 125rn tomorrow if i get time. I found a generous coat helps fill the lube groves too. I was running 20g to 120ml acetone. I haven't had issues with needing to slow down rhe solvent evaporating.

We have winter now,below zero C° outside. That means the heated air inside is crazy dry,acetone evaporates quickly. Of course I know a thick first coat is against the original Hi-Tek instructions but this is working goooood. My 19 g came by accident,I measured by volume. My bowl is kinda full with 8 pounds of bullets,I like to slow down a bit.

TMG Gold is very forgiving in many ways. Shoots great.

[Ausglock]

Today I fired a few dozen 230gn Lee RN that were cast and coated back in 2013.

Para 1911 45ACP all fired perfectly with zero fouling. These have been sitting in the box for 5 years. Smashed a few and zero flaking.

Coated with the old liquid coating...

[dikman]

I hope the powder has the same (or better) longevity 'cos it's going to take me an awful long time to shoot the stuff I've got coated and stored.:roll:

[Tazza]

No reason why any type wouldn't be stable, it's essentiallt plastic, so should out last us all :)

Glad it's proven to hold up for many years, wven better to shoot the .45, i sure miss mine

[Ausglock]

Yep. Just that there have been stories of old coated bullets flaking after a few years.
Just wanted to try the smash on these 5y.o. ones.
No issues at all.

[Tazza]

I'd like to think the ones with flaking issues just weren't applied correctly before storage.

Sadly i don't have any that are of a significant age to test, they all get slung down range before they have a chance to age :)

[dansedgli]

Happy Birthday dansedgli.
Ya bloody old fart. Senior soon???
Have a bloody great day,

Thanks mate. Not senior yet but starting to feel like it.

[Tazza]

Thanks mate. Not senior yet but starting to feel like it.

We all have those days!

[dikman]

I'd like to think the ones with flaking issues just weren't applied correctly before storage.

My thoughts too mate.

Being a senior's not all it's cracked up to be (but at least I don't have to go to work).:lol:

[HI-TEK]

Yep. Just that there have been stories of old coated bullets flaking after a few years.
Just wanted to try the smash on these 5y.o. ones.
No issues at all.


Ausglock you are using a known alloy composition. It makes all the difference.

I have heard similar comments previously. Upon examination of alloy under the coating, there was white corrosion type powder under the coating which seemed to have spalled/lifted the coating.
Despite coating being intact, adhesion is of the film is damaged by alloy composition being unstable with age/weathering (corrosion of some sorts).
As Petander had found, treating cast of unknown composition with acid pickling, should remove active materials from the cast alloy surfaces. This also will provide a more stable and better surface for the coatings to bond.
Storing such treated coated alloys, then should be more stable.

[Grmps]

G-Day Joe,
Are you saying HiTek is permeable allowing moisture to reach the lead's surface and cause oxidation?

Do you know what alloys are most likely to oxidize?

[Ausglock]

Ausglock you are using a known alloy composition. It makes all the difference.

I have heard similar comments previously. Upon examination of alloy under the coating, there was white corrosion type powder under the coating which seemed to have spalled/lifted the coating.
Despite coating being intact, adhesion is of the film is damaged by alloy composition being unstable with age/weathering (corrosion of some sorts).
As Petander had found, treating cast of unknown composition with acid pickling, should remove active materials from the cast alloy surfaces. This also will provide a more stable and better surface for the coatings to bond.
Storing such treated coated alloys, then should be more stable.

Actually, these were cast from Range reclaim and wheel weights. This was way before I started buying 2,6,92 alloy. BHN is around the 10 mark.

[HI-TEK]

G-Day Joe,
Are you saying HiTek is permeable allowing moisture to reach the lead's surface and cause oxidation?

Do you know what alloys are most likely to oxidize?

Grmps

I have to say, that from some indications, the coatings may be permeable to an extent.
We are talking coated products peeling that are a few years old.
The Plain coatings, non metallic, may have possibility of having less open spaces.
We are also dealing with about 1.5 to 2.5 thou of film.
I suspect, that initial coating has reacted with contaminants, but held adequately for normal use.
With aging, the spalling may cause fault in integrity of film, opening more areas for moisture to get under film.

With alloys, most likely ones that may cause problems are the ones containing Zinc, Magnesium, Aluminium, Cadmium.
There may be others that also may contribute.

[HI-TEK]

I'd like to think the ones with flaking issues just weren't applied correctly before storage.

Sadly i don't have any that are of a significant age to test, they all get slung down range before they have a chance to age :)

Hi Tazza,
I am inclined to an extent, disagree with your comment about coatings not applied correctly before storage.

These coatings, are very reactive during coating/heating process. Reactive contaminants will interfere with bonding short and long term.
These coatings are not just a plastic jacket, as some think or assume.
It is a polymer system, that is designed to very strongly bond to metal Alloys, with heat curing.
Because of their "reactivity", they are prone to reactions with contaminants of reactive metal contaminants which end up negatively affecting performance.

You are right, most are used well before any aging and loss of integrity become noticeable.

This goes with all alloys, recycled or not.

Generally, if coated cast is used in reasonable timeframe, there should be no problems.
Storing coated stuff for years, it cannot be predicted what will happen, especially with unknown alloy compositions.

I cant really understand why any one would coat, then store it for years.
To me, it seems counter productive, especially if aging may cause problems.

[Tazza]

I never really thought about the physical bond, but it makes sense. Paint wants a primer to get into the pores to grab hold and not work on essentially, suction to hold it on. It needs to actually stick.

I never really thought about the reactivity, but chemistry does show, you heat a reavtive chemical or metal, it speeds the reaction up.

Most people will use their supplies in a timely fashion, but i know of a guy that had lots if rifle rounds loaded from 20 or more years ago.

I lnow for pistol shooting, a big day is 500 or more rounds down range, rofle would be a fraction of that. Some people plink every so often, so they are more liable to sit for years before use.

I only cast pistol projectiles so the turn over is fairly fast, i assume ausglock is the same, focusing on high turn over pistol projectiles.

[Ausglock]

I have commercially produced 40 cals here that are over 15 years old. Still good.
Also have rifle ammo I loaded pre 1996. 223 and 308. used to feed Colt AR-15 HBAR and SLR.

[Tazza]

I'm thankful that i haven't had any issues, hopefully never will. If the issue is caused from oxygen getting under the coating, causing oxidization, hopefully i'll be ok as i use heat sealed bags to package mine off, keeping out as much oxygen as possible.

Rifle ammo seems to last forever :)

[Grmps]

Makes sense that the purity of the alloy would slow down or even eliminate any possible oxidation.

Were more likely to shoot garbage/unknown alloys in handgun plinking and go for the higher quality controlled alloy for matches/hunting/...

Lead alloy is not molecularly stable for up to 90 days after the boolits have been cast. It can take that long for some alloys to reach their final hardness.

could there be a difference between coating recently cast boolits of boolits that have been bagged and stored for a longer period of time?

[popper]

Lead is stable always, hot or solid. Impurities in the lead mix are not - we know that Sn,Sb, other stuff are way higher up on the electro tables.

[Petander]

My contaminant (Niobium) comes from wheelweights. I also have copper.

Coating my alloy without HCL soak is like trying to paint glass,there is no real bonding at all. A beginner may not see the problem,I didn't.


Concrete wash costs close to nothing and can be used three times. A big HCL can would be even cheaper. I have some bullets soaking pretty much all the time. It happens by itself,when they get dark it's time to rinse.

Contaminants do strange unpredictable things.

[Avenger442]

I occasionally load a couple of boxes and leave them sitting around in case I need them. My Granddaughter shoots .308 in her rifle. She along with my Daughter and another Granddaughter wanted to go to the shooting range about a month ago for some practice. I was positive I had coated ammo for the .45 and .38 that the others shoot but thought I didn't have any .308. Was going to have to do a quick loading session. Then while looking for some coated bullets I found two boxes of loaded .308 that were cast and coated three years ago and loaded about two years ago. (note to self: got to cleanup the loading area and storage cabinet:) We shot probably 400 rounds of the .38, 300 of the .45 and the 100 .308s. The question never came into my mind about using the three year old Hi Tek. And of course they shot accurately and there was no lead fowling in any of the guns. Now I've only got some 44 magnum loaded and will have to reload all of those cases.

I don't know how long you can count on the Hi Tek to last after coating. But it seems like a long time. I have some unloaded bullets cast and coated about four years ago. Maybe I'll just set them back and load them at 10 years for a test. And I'm still using the original 1035 Gold liquid Hi Tek that I bought four years ago and powders I got about two years ago both work just as well as when I bought them.

[dansedgli]

I found some boxes of bullets i coated last year and hadn't sized yet. The coating was not done right, it was a bit rough and bubbly. These often get stuck in my sizing die (which I normally remove by moving the lee sizing setup into my Lee classic cast press) but I figured I'd throw them through the star and see if I can shoot them anyway.

1st one got stuck. :( Had to fire up the melting pot and melt the bullet out, hopefully I haven't done any damage to the die.

Properly coated bullets go through smoothly, I sized close to 8000 last week without any getting stuck.

Looks like I'll get to remake these ones.

Has anyone thought about making their own oven? I bought some equipment to do cerakoting at home and used my bullet oven to bake the coating but something bigger I can use for both might be nice. If I can put 3 or 4 trays of bullets into a tall upright oven it might be worth the effort. Then I'd be able to cerakote rifles as well.

Here is that cheap Edge I bought with a DIY make over.


231214

[Tazza]

I wonder why your projectile got stuck, even with poor coating, the press should have had enough power to push it free, hopefully the lead melting point wasn't enough to anneal the die.

Nice job on the ceracote, i'd like to give that a go on a few items, i may have to look into it a bit more....

No reason why you can't make your own oven, or even use an existing one and make a custom one with the parts, fan and element etc. The only possible issue i see is a consistent heat throughout the oven for rifles. Dual elements and fans maybe?

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with though. A nice tall oven for baking Hi-Tek would be nice, then you can stand rifles up in it too.

[Avenger442]

For those of you looking for an oven, we have a store here in the US called Ollie's. They sell discounted merchandise. I was in one last weekend and they had a $135 dollar large Oyster convection oven for $49.

[popper]

Just look for used kitchen convection oven. Control board is usually what fails and no replacement parts. Ovens are fine otherwise.

[Stephen Cohen]

Grmps

I have to say, that from some indications, the coatings may be permeable to an extent.
We are talking coated products peeling that are a few years old.
The Plain coatings, non metallic, may have possibility of having less open spaces.
We are also dealing with about 1.5 to 2.5 thou of film.
I suspect, that initial coating has reacted with contaminants, but held adequately for normal use.
With aging, the spalling may cause fault in integrity of film, opening more areas for moisture to get under film.

With alloys, most likely ones that may cause problems are the ones containing Zinc, Magnesium, Aluminium, Cadmium.
There may be others that also may contribute.

I certainly have no issues with flaking and some of my cast would be close to 5 years old, I wonder if moisture is getting under coating from blow holes after baking even those invisible to naked eye would cause problems. It is all academic as I have no problems with flaking. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

I scored a large wall oven the other week. It is 900mm wide inside and 450mm deep.
Fan with heating. top and bottom heating and top grill elements.

I can bake 4 trays at once in 10.3 minutes.
1000 bullets at once.

Nice job on the Edge, Dan.

[Grmps]

900mm = 35.43
450mm = 17.72

[Petander]

I scored a large wall oven the other week. It is 900mm wide inside and 450mm deep.
Fan with heating. top and bottom heating and top grill elements.

I can bake 4 trays at once in 10.3 minutes.
1000 bullets at once.

Nice job on the Edge, Dan.

You're not using the grill,are you?

Mine is a wall oven and has a grill,too.

[Ausglock]

no. Just the element around the fan and the bottom element.

[Petander]

Funny that our kitchen oven has no fan or grill.

It turned out that I got a very good,powerful oven S/H for 45€. There are lots of quality ovens for sale, ovens that cost 500-800 when new can be found for 50.

[Petander]

TMG Gold slugs.

http://i67.tinypic.com/hv8jer.jpg


http://i65.tinypic.com/2ep7qxk.jpg

[HI-TEK]

TMG Gold slugs.

http://i67.tinypic.com/hv8jer.jpg


http://i65.tinypic.com/2ep7qxk.jpg



They look simply magnificent. What are these shot with ?

[Tazza]

They really do look great.

I was thinking about giving it a go with some .22 slugs but thought i'd end up getting coating pooled in the hole in the base, so it would be inconsistent.

[Avenger442]

Based on coating hollow point bullets I would think the opposite would be the case. I have to coat three times just to get most of the holes in the tip 90% coated. The hole is kind of like the lube groove. The coating does not want to cover in one or two coats.

Tried to shoot 50 rounds of .380 coated with orange Hi Tek last week. First time I've tried to load .380. Gun didn't function well. I think I'm going to a different powder, used Hodgdon Tight Group, and I will be adding more crimp. I was just wondering if anybody has experience with loading .380. Anybody got a suggestion on powder? Will use a loading manual for loads. Shooting it out of a semi auto with a 2.75 inch barrel.

[Ausglock]

I did air rifle pellets (.177) with the Krytponite green a few years ago. Shot great.
The flying rat (pigeon) population at work drastically reduced.

[Tazza]

I'll have to coat some of mine, i have flying rats that drive me crazy at home, would be handy if it made them hit the target better :)

[Petander]

They look simply magnificent. What are these shot with ?

These are 12 gauge shotgun 500 grain Lyman slugs. Airgun - style. :)

[HI-TEK]

I'll have to coat some of mine, i have flying rats that drive me crazy at home, would be handy if it made them hit the target better :)


Sorry, I am off subject matter,
I have 4 very large Nashi Pear Trees, 4 Normal Pear trees, Plum Trees in a walkway from the house, and every night we get the Flying Foxes, Possums fighting screaming and squealing over the small half grown fruit. My dogs bark at them so it is a serenade of noise every night during fruiting season.
Nearby, we have a dam, and thousands of frogs seem to form a harmony of mass croaking, and, with doors shut tight, we get this invasion of noise.
During the day, we have Lorikeets, King parrots squawking fighting over the fruit, taking one bite, cutting them off the tree, branches and all, then, they go onto next one.
That is what you get with nature..

[Stephen Cohen]

It is a shame that these vermin are protected or you could hang thick fishing line with several hooks attached which I am told works wonders. I have also heard that hanging aluminium foil puts them off as well. I do remember the good old days when you could use a shotgun on them, or find their roost and put a drum of blue metal under the roost with a couple plugs of jelly in the bottom one explosion was generally enough. I still smile when I see one hanging from a power line. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

It is a shame that these vermin are protected or you could hang thick fishing line with several hooks attached which I am told works wonders. I have also heard that hanging aluminium foil puts them off as well. I do remember the good old days when you could use a shotgun on them, or find their roost and put a drum of blue metal under the roost with a couple plugs of jelly in the bottom one explosion was generally enough. I still smile when I see one hanging from a power line. Regards Stephen

That is how my Uncle used to go fishing. Jelly and a tinny....he hates wasting time sitting around with a rod and bait.

[Tazza]

Got the same exact issues at my parents place, you can't grow a bloody thing, the possums and wallabies eat ANYTHING green. I grew corn one year, the rats got in and ate the seeds, the time i got seeds to grow, the corn grew pretty well, then the rats came back just before harvesting time, all that was left was the core of the corn cob, no kernels at all....

When the possums find something, they just will not stop till the plant is dead.

At my house, i have a rather large mango tree, the second year i was there, the amount of fruit i got was insane, that was after the local possums and flying foxes had their meals. At least the bats will come back each night and eat the same one till it's gone, the possums don't care, they will take a chomp out of each and every one.

The flying rats drive me insane with their constant cooing, i really hate where i live, between that and neighbors that enjoy playing their doof doof music.... The joy of living in suburbia.

[dikman]

The only way I can get any fruit is by netting the trees! Not allowed to shoot parrots etc, but it wouldn't make any difference 'cos there are too many of them. At least I get a lot of Macadamias, they're too hard for the birds to crack!:lol:

I might have to throw a few .22 air rifle pellets in next time I'm coating, just to see how they go.

[Petander]

Here you can see some 18g/cm3 (that means heavy and hard alloy) tungsten shot, TMG coated and smashed.


http://i64.tinypic.com/25q9f0p.jpg

Smashing them with a small sledgehammer makes craters on my anvil:


http://i66.tinypic.com/6ydr89.jpg


Tungsten can scratch barrels ,I figured Hi-tek coating can make for some extra protection for older shotguns.

[dikman]

That is a terrible way to treat an anvil! You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Petander]

That is a terrible way to treat an anvil! You should be ashamed of yourself.

http://i64.tinypic.com/4iiyvp.jpg

[HI-TEK]

http://i64.tinypic.com/4iiyvp.jpg


It looks to me, like the cat has TMG eyes. Have you been feeding the cat with TMG, or is it a reflection of the golden shot?

[Petander]

It looks to me, like the cat has TMG eyes. Have you been feeding the cat with TMG, or is it a reflection of the golden shot?

He is The Official TMG Cat and must be fed with TMG.

Funny that he moved in at the same time when I started coating with TMG. He just came from the woods, people had been trying to catch him for months around here. These suffer a horrible end in winter,some idiots simply leave their "summer cats" alone.

TMG cats really are something,they are worth saving. I haven't had a cat in 45 years,didn't remember how nice these are around. Even caught a mouse the other day.

[wlkjr]

Based on coating hollow point bullets I would think the opposite would be the case. I have to coat three times just to get most of the holes in the tip 90% coated. The hole is kind of like the lube groove. The coating does not want to cover in one or two coats.

Tried to shoot 50 rounds of .380 coated with orange Hi Tek last week. First time I've tried to load .380. Gun didn't function well. I think I'm going to a different powder, used Hodgdon Tight Group, and I will be adding more crimp. I was just wondering if anybody has experience with loading .380. Anybody got a suggestion on powder? Will use a loading manual for loads. Shooting it out of a semi auto with a 2.75 inch barrel.

I never worry about the lube groove since it doesn't contact anything and it's a non issue. Haven't used any orange coating for my .380's, only black, the reds, and some greens. I use mainly 3.0-3.1 grains of HP38-W231, Titegroup, or Bullseye with either a 95 or 100 grain bullet. All mine shoot fine in my G42's, although I have some slight leading or coating issues after about 200 rounds. Nothing I have tried has eliminated it, so I have gone back to copper plated for .380. However, I have shot probably 5000 through 4 G42's the last 4 years. Never had any issues with 9mm or .45acp.
Sorry to go off topic as I don't have any fruit trees.[smilie=l:

[Avenger442]

Thanks for the reply, off topic, wlkir. More of a nut tree man myself.

I loaded another 50 yesterday with about .2 gr more powder and a heavier crimp. Also shortened the OAL a bit. Bullet was coming in contact with the lands.

The Orange Hi Tek comes out about the color that Mitsubishi used on the Eclipse. More of a burnt orange.

It seems from reading that your use of the H38 or W231 is probably a better powder for this load than the Titegroup. Don't have any on hand but have never passed up the chance to get another powder:).

[wlkjr]

Thanks for the reply, off topic, wlkir. More of a nut tree man myself.

I loaded another 50 yesterday with about .2 gr more powder and a heavier crimp. Also shortened the OAL a bit. Bullet was coming in contact with the lands.

The Orange Hi Tek comes out about the color that Mitsubishi used on the Eclipse. More of a burnt orange.

It seems from reading that your use of the H38 or W231 is probably a better powder for this load than the Titegroup. Don't have any on hand but have never passed up the chance to get another powder:).

What pistol you using?

[dikman]

Petander, beautiful looking cat, it's nice that you gave him a home (hope you treat him better than the anvil :lol:). One of our cats is sitting on my lap as I type.

[Ausglock]

My Marlin 1894 44Mag loves cats.........just sayin......

[Petander]

My Marlin 1894 44Mag loves cats.........just sayin......


Look ma,my cat just caught another Trevor:


http://i68.tinypic.com/2mwcc4h.jpg

[Ausglock]

:bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

[dikman]

:lol::lol::lol:

[Avenger442]

What pistol you using?

Ruger LCP. It's OK out to about 10 or 15 yards. Averages 4" groups at 10 with Hornady ammo. I've owned a couple of "pocket" handguns in .38 and .380 and can't shoot any of them well enough to do any better. But they are OK for self defense that you can drop in your pocket.

I have tried jacketed store bought ammo from several manufacturers in each. The LCP likes the Hornady. Want to see if I can load ammo that will beat the Hornady. I'm shooting an 85 grain hollow point from a modified Lee mold right now. Have the same mold without the hollow point and another mold. But I haven't shot any of those yet. They are both over 100 grain and I was trying to shoot something in the 90-95 grain.

[Petander]

Based on coating hollow point bullets I would think the opposite would be the case. I have to coat three times just to get most of the holes in the tip 90% coated. The hole is kind of like the lube groove. The coating does not want to cover in one or two coats.



I did a swim-test with TMG with those slugs that I just posted. When a bottle had only 1 cm of solution left in the bottom,I added 4 cm of denatured alcohol. So that's 1/5 strength of my already diluted solution.

To cover the hollow bases (after two normal coats) I simply poured half a cup of that diluted solution in the bowl and let the slugs swim, shaking. Poured the solution back in the bottle,swirled the slugs for a while.

I got reasonably nice hollow base coverage that way,I know it's mostly cosmetic but I like it. Might work for HP:s as well - and it uses very little coating itself. I keep that diluted "swim-coat" bottle for similar use in the future.

[HI-TEK]

I did a swim-test with TMG with those slugs that I just posted when a bottle had only 1 cm of solution left in the bottom,I added 4 cm on denatured alcohol. So that's 1/5 strength.

To cover the hollow bases (after two normal coats) I simply poured half a cup of that diluted solution in the bowl and let the slugs swim, shaking. Poured the solution back in the bottle,swirled the slugs for a while.

I got reasonably nice hollow base coverage that way,I know it's mostly cosmetic but I like it. Might work for HP:s as well - and it uses very little coating itself. I keep that diluted "swim-coat" bottle for similar use in the future.


Petander,
Now that is clever. Got coating applied evenly, and recycled excess. It adds to the weight of apply first coat "thin" .
You can get a lot of first coated slugs that way, and use very little coating, the penny just dropped......WHAAAT????? using less, that is criminal conduct!!!!!!!

[HI-TEK]

Look ma,my cat just caught another Trevor:


http://i68.tinypic.com/2mwcc4h.jpg


Even that "Trevor' has TMG colours, as well as cats ears. Are you sure that you are not feeding these critters with the TMG Gold?

[Petander]

Even that "Trevor' has TMG colours, as well as cats ears. Are you sure that you are not feeding these critters with the TMG Gold?

We are all addicted to TMG Gold.

[shanep]

Even that "Trevor' has TMG colours, as well as cats ears. Are you sure that you are not feeding these critters with the TMG Gold?I've got some gold in the other day and I really like it. I've noticed after I shake it within 30 seconds if that, there's already powder on the bottom settling. Same with the candy apple red. Is that ok or should I be doing something different. Mixed out perfect, even added a little denatured alcohol. Here are some with 3coats https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181222/8c46cb8ff5e2e1b7cca4e6f38c67314c.jpg

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[Ausglock]

Shane... you are shaking far too long....10 seconds is all it takes... dump them onto the tray still wet

[Tazza]

The way i understood his post, was that when he mixes the hi-tek powder, he sees the metalic sinking to the bottom or the container.

I make sure i give my jar a shake every time i go to suck some up in a syringe to suspend the colour in the mix. Then i know it will be right when i squirt it in the shaking container.

[shanep]

Shane... you are shaking far too long....10 seconds is all it takes... dump them onto the tray still wetI'll shorten the shake, that's possibly why they're blotchy. Thanks

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[shanep]

The way i understood his post, was that when he mixes the hi-tek powder, he sees the metalic sinking to the bottom or the container.

I make sure i give my jar a shake every time i go to suck some up in a syringe to suspend the colour in the mix. Then i know it will be right when i squirt it in the shaking container.Yessir, I shake it vigorously lol. May just be this color shows better. I need to get a syringe. Instead of this measuring spoon. Thank you

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[Ausglock]

10mL syringe is the go. cheap and east to get repeatable measures.

[shanep]

So what do ya'll think, not there yet I think. Shortened my shake to were I can clean my mixing bucket with a rag. Still trying to figure my oven out good. Think I'm going to do smaller batches. I cover one of the burners to slow the direct heat. Top has a fan. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181223/6773199758186826469c1d412781fb7f.jpg

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[Ausglock]

Looks fine to me. what are they 200gn SWC 45 pills?
No coating in the groove or at the nose shoulder is fine on SWC bullets.
You will find that the second coat will get better coverage of the shoulder.

[shanep]

Looks fine to me. what are they 200gn SWC 45 pills?
No coating in the groove or at the nose shoulder is fine on SWC bullets.
You will find that the second coat will get better coverage of the shoulder.Thank you, makes me fill better. That's actually the second coat. I'm able to wipe some of it off with acetone. Held up to the hammer test, and then I hit it with acetone and as you can see. Some of it came off. Is that fine?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181223/bcb13136bddca36745c6a1e609cfb6f6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181223/cb7dbc528b65eead4dc5b32ebfe64fc3.jpg

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[dansedgli]

I dont think that's a pass for the hammer test.

It looks like it's starting to flake?

[shanep]

I dont think that's a pass for the hammer test.

It looks like it's starting to flake?The one side that's bare is where I wiped it with acetone. The other side I didn't, the missing spots didn't get covered. But I don't feel it passed. Any longer in the oven they would've burnt. Some were beginning to burn. Any idea where it went wrong.

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[dansedgli]

Maybe not dry enough or too much lead in the oven at once.

If the coating comes off at all with the hammer test its not right. Hard to tell through photos but looks like some flakes on the bench.

[HI-TEK]

The one side that's bare is where I wiped it with acetone. The other side I didn't, the missing spots didn't get covered. But I don't feel it passed. Any longer in the oven they would've burnt. Some were beginning to burn. Any idea where it went wrong.

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shanep
Can we start at the beginning.
With descriptions you advised, the results are very unusual and require your step by step details, before we can provide helpful replies..
With below questions, can you please supply much more details.

1. What alloy are you using? (from what is visible it does not look like 92:6:2 alloy)
2. Do you use any mould release or other lubricants during casting?
3. How did you determine, if first coat was dry, and before you baked? How long did you dry first coat and what were drying conditions.
4. How much coating did you add to how many cast with first coat?. Is your oven fan forced? How did you determine oven temperature?
5. How much alloy did you cook per load in oven?
6. How did you determine temperature of alloy inside oven, and how long did you bake?? What was alloy temperature when finished baking?

[Tazza]

You mention that any longer and they get burnt, if you set the oven to 200c, they will not burn, but can get a little darker, they will still work just fine. The initial cook for me, can get a little dark, the second and third coat make them perfect.

For the wipe test, no colour should come off, a slight colour on white paper towel or rag is fine, but NO lead should be exposed after wiping, if any is shown, you haven't got it hot enough for long enough. I did this once, i had he oven set too low, and they failed, re-cooked and they were fine.

[shanep]

shanep
Can we start at the beginning.
With descriptions you advised, the results are very unusual and require your step by step details, before we can provide helpful replies..
With below questions, can you please supply much more details.

1. What alloy are you using? (from what is visible it does not look like 92:6:2 alloy)
2. Do you use any mould release or other lubricants during casting?
3. How did you determine, if first coat was dry, and before you baked? How long did you dry first coat and what were drying conditions.
4. How much coating did you add to how many cast with first coat?. Is your oven fan forced? How did you determine oven temperature?
5. How much alloy did you cook per load in oven?
6. How did you determine temperature of alloy inside oven, and how long did you bake?? What was alloy temperature when finished baking?My alloy is ww with antimony and tin from solder. 3 antimony 1 tin. Cut back to 2 and a half pounds bullets with half teaspoon of coat. Oven is forced fan temp is 375 with bottom burners covered.

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[HI-TEK]

My alloy is ww with antimony and tin from solder. 3 antimony 1 tin. Cut back to 2 and a half pounds bullets with half teaspoon of coat. Oven is forced fan temp is 375 with bottom burners covered.

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I don't know if you have been following this thread long.
There is detailed posted results with cleaning cast made from mystery metals.
Wheel weights may be a problem but can be used.
What you may have to do, is cast, and soak some in Hydrochloric Acid, (concrete cleaning acid) that has been diluted two parts water and 1 part acid.
You can get this stuff in most hardware stores. (You can re-use the diluted acid mix)
Do it in a plastic container. After soaking say over night, wash them well, and dry them well, then coat.
After coating, dry them well also, even if you can warm to 50C before baking.
Contaminants in wheel weights may be causing poor adhesion and acid pickling will remove surface contaminants and allow you great bonding with coating..
When first coat is dry, try baking a few first, and examine results before you bake the larger batch.
Let us know how things go afterwards.

[Ausglock]

Shane... if you can wipe the coating off back to bare lead, then you have no where nearly enough heat in your oven. get a thermometer to check the oven temp. Go have a look at the HItek do's and don'ts thread. and follow the steps.
The above acid treatment is a last resort for mystery metal...

[shanep]

I don't know if you have been following this thread long.
There is detailed posted results with cleaning cast made from mystery metals.
Wheel weights may be a problem but can be used.
What you may have to do, is cast, and soak some in Hydrochloric Acid, (concrete cleaning acid) that has been diluted two parts water and 1 part acid.
You can get this stuff in most hardware stores. (You can re-use the diluted acid mix)
Do it in a plastic container. After soaking say over night, wash them well, and dry them well, then coat.
After coating, dry them well also, even if you can warm to 50C before baking.
Contaminants in wheel weights may be causing poor adhesion and acid pickling will remove surface contaminants and allow you great bonding with coating..
When first coat is dry, try baking a few first, and examine results before you bake the larger batch.
Let us know how things go afterwards.I will try that, thank you.

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[HI-TEK]

Shane... if you can wipe the coating off back to bare lead, then you have no where nearly enough heat in your oven. get a thermometer to check the oven temp. Go have a look at the HItek do's and don'ts thread. and follow the steps.
The above acid treatment is a last resort for mystery metal...

If you look at post 1094, you can se flakes coming off. When wiping with solvent, all that seemed to be happening is flakes being wiped off, as the coating may have been cured but not bonded.
If solvent is not dissolving coating, it is cured but not bonded.
As you know, not enough drying of first coat and problems with mystery metals has caused such failures.
If he dries first coat very well, and then bakes a few to test, (over bake if required), if it fails again, it is unfortunately an acid wash/soak pretreatment is required.

[Petander]

My WW alloy has contaminants that prevent proper bonding. It took me a while to find out,I had all kinds of problems . I didn't know about acid test at all.

Acid test is easy,you can use raw concrete wash (it's usually quite a bit diluted HCL).

If your bullets start sizzling,making tiny bubbles,you have contaminants. Wait for an hour or two to see if anything happens.

Bullets turn dark overnight and are ready for rinse/dry. The cleaned bullets work exceptionally well with coating. Here you can see shiny bullets as cast to the left, the same bullets after overnight HCL soak to the right.

232650.

[shanep]

I have a batch in acid right now. 2 parts water, 1 part acid. Is that mixed properly? Should I leave it overnight or a few hours?.

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[dikman]

Sorry to interrupt the thread flow, I just wanted to wish everyone a Merry Christmas, and lots of successful coating in the New Year.:drinks:

[HI-TEK]

I have a batch in acid right now. 2 parts water, 1 part acid. Is that mixed properly? Should I leave it overnight or a few hours?.

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You can possibly leave it a few hours, or over night, it really does not matter. What you are achieving with acid wash is removal of surface contaminants, and leaving a porous surface.
I suppose, as petander said, if you have bubbles forming when adding the acid to your cast, then you have contaminants. The bubbling slows and stops, is probably good enough.
After acid wash, how did they look? Did they fizz with acid?

[Ausglock]

Merry Christmas to all you bullet coaters out there is cast bullet land.
All the best from the Land down Under.

[shanep]

You can possibly leave it a few hours, or over night, it really does not matter. What you are achieving with acid wash is removal of surface contaminants, and leaving a porous surface.
I suppose, as petander said, if you have bubbles forming when adding the acid to your cast, then you have contaminants. The bubbling slows and stops, is probably good enough.
After acid wash, how did they look? Did they fizz with acid?I let them sit 6 hours, didn't notice much bubbles. Ther bullets are definitely clean. They're hollow points so hard to take a hand full in paper towel and know the solution out of them. I'll coat them this week and let you all know. I'm sure this will fix it. Thanks guys. Merry Christmas.

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[Avenger442]

shanep
Sent you a PM.

[Petander]

I let them sit 6 hours, didn't notice much bubbles. Ther bullets are definitely clean. They're hollow points so hard to take a hand full in paper towel and know the solution out of them. I'll coat them this week and let you all know. I'm sure this will fix it. Thanks guys. Merry Christmas.

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If nothing happens in six hours your alloy is most probably ok.

[shanep]

If nothing happens in six hours your alloy is most probably ok.Should I rinse them afterwards, or start choosing after they dry.

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[HI-TEK]

Should I rinse them afterwards, or start choosing after they dry.

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After acid wash, I advised you to wash/rinse the acid treated alloy well, and then dry them to remove water, before coating.

[Ausglock]

So... now that you have found that your alloy isn't contaminated.
My questions still remains un-answered.
Have you checked the actual temp of your oven with a thermometer?
Have you read my instructions on the Do's and don't thread??

[Petander]

The above acid treatment is a last resort for mystery metal...

Acid test makes sense as a first resort when we are dealing with unknown alloys. I test everything, I have some pure that don't react at all. No need to soak. On the other hand, I cleaned some 22/j-bullet "range scrap" which is really bad,reacts hard,needs a HCL soak.

My ton of WW /mono-mix (niobium & copper contaminants) gets automatically soaked,now that I know.

Shane's bullets look a bit like my first ones,that's why I suggested test. I banged my head for months with bad alloy.

[Conditor22]

Trevor's thread http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?240450-HI-TEK-do-s-and-don-ts lines 1 - 5 refer to the liquid Hitek coating system
Suppliers website http://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/coating-instructions/

I've seen that some members "think too much" when starting out HiTek coating.
Don't think, follow the instructions word for word.
read through both instructions completely. If you take the time and go back through his thread you will see multiple time where people have problems, listen to the Aussies / advice and have success.
agitator in mixing bottle
Mix 20 grams (309 grains) of powdered coating to 100ml (3.3-3.4 ounces) of acetone. I do 10grams to 50ml
let new solution set for 30 min
agitate solution immediately before measuring and applying
less than 1 mil solution per pound for the first coat
don't shake swirl over 15 seconds
fan dry the coating completely COMPLETELY (damp coating will cause failure)
preheat the COMPLETELY dry boolits on a spacer on top of the oven
make sure oven is at 400F (convection ovens work much better and can do larger batches)
bake 12 min if the coating turn dark and you're sure the oven is at 400 shorten your bake time (dark boolits shoot just fine)

[Petander]

And it doesn't have to be a small,cheap "toaster oven" My oven is in an outside shed and we have winter now. Snow. Below zero Celsius.

It is a 50€ second hand household wall oven, I bake ten pounds at a time. I started with a "toaster oven", still have it but hey, they make good pizza and fries...

Here is ten pounds of 12 gauge slugs. Not maxed out, 12 mins @ 200 C°.

232749



A proper oven takes much of the quesswork out.

[Petander]

Here:

232750

I cast 500 Christmas Slugs yesterday,coated half of them today.

[Petander]

Closer. This is TMG Gold again.

232751

[Boomsticks Firearms]

Forgive my ignorance but why would you coat 12 gauge slugs for are they not going to be in a wad which it rides in?

[shanep]

So... now that you have found that your alloy isn't contaminated.
My questions still remains un-answered.
Have you checked the actual temp of your oven with a thermometer?
Have you read my instructions on the Do's and don't thread??I have checked it, does good until I put bullets in them it drops the temp. But it's gets to 350-400. But at first it drops to 300. So I watch the thermometer when it reaches 350 I start timer. It's brand new an junk. So I'm looking for a real oven.

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