simple Hi-Tek coating

[leadman]

popper, I lost about 50 to 75 fps in my 41 mag going from wax based lube to HT.
On the light powder that comes out of the bore of the rifles Hi-Tek said this is the coating that has burned due to friction, but does not come off the boolit until it exits the bore.
I have found that a much harder boolit is needed when the velocity gets over 2,500 fps in the 223 Rem and about 2,300 fps in the 30-06.
I'm going to do some more experimenting with the H-T coating, my wax type lube mixture, and LBT Blue Soft. Also going to use 2 coats of HT just a little thicker to try and keep some of my BHN in the boolits.

I noticed my old toaster oven was having a hard time getting to 375 degrees yesterday so went shopping today at Goodwill and the Thrift stores. Found a convection oven at a thrift store near my house for $4.00. It has 2 grates and is digital! Will try it out after I get some more hardware cloth to cover the grates with.

[Ausglock]

HI-TEK now has 4 different catalysts. The super slippery 3 Extreme is the new one.
I am going to mix red/copper with each of the catalysts and coat 100 bullets with each and then load with identical components and fire over the chrono to see if the different catalysts have any influence on velocity. I know that the extreme catalysts make sizing far easier than the normal catalyst.

[jmoore]

...Coatings should not be used on pre-sized projectiles.
If projectiles are pre-sized, the sizing process seals the surface of alloy and coating adhesion/bonding is greatly affected.
Tests done previously on dry, clean pre-sized projectiles , showed that the coating will not adhere to alloy even if clean.
It seems, that during sizing, the alloy surface becomes sealed and the coating has nowhere to penetrate and stick.
If during sizing, if any lubes are used, like waxes and other, it would also cause coating to not stick to alloy.
Rinsing with solvents, may clean metal from lubricants used during sizing, but also, not completely.
Unless projectiles are vapour de-greased, I have doubts that in many instances, all lube components can be removed, unless solvent washes are done many times.
...

Read that immediately after sizing a bunch of Red Copper boolits. Which were thinly coated twice beforehand. Seems they needed a third coat, as I got a small amount of leading near the muzzle of the 10 5/8" barreled S&W 29.

Had thought that two coats would have been enough, except the solids weren't fully applied even though the carrier was everywhere. So pondering whether the solids are the prime protective agent rather than the base.

May go back to the green, even though I've much more red copper on hand. It generally seems easier to work with than the metallic. Got the red copper mostly to get more build-up for smallish boolits, but I haven't seen much difference between the two.

[Ausglock]

Apply the 3rd coat over the sized 2 coats. I do.
The red copper is no harder to use than the green. Just shake immediately before applying.

[Thompsoncustom]

i have CNC contact. If ya do, you can buy used molds and bore out. I started with NOE blank, but next time i may try this idea. Say 9mm to 40 s&w. Maybe small 380 up to 9mm. SPRU plate would remain same.

Yes sir I do my uncle runs a shop were they make all kinds of custom parts so I'm sure he could make me a mold from scratch but I'm just gonna have the lubes groves removed from my lee 6 cavity TL mold. Bought it for the coating as I'm not a fan of the lee alox sticky tumble lubing so removing the lube grooves doesn't have a down side that I can see.

Hoping to test the passing bullets through the CZ today and see if they have the same results as the glock 17.

[Shotgundrums]

Hello guys. My First post. I just received the Green HI-TEK kit from Bayou Bullets. Has anyone tried using lacquer thinner rather than Acetone? I ask because as many might know it works well (and formulated) to reduce resins. I may try it. Just wondering if anyone has yet.
Thx

[Ausglock]

Hello guys. My First post. I just received the Green HI-TEK kit from Bayou Bullets. Has anyone tried using lacquer thinner rather than Acetone? I ask because as many might know it works well (and formulated) to reduce resins. I may try it. Just wondering if anyone has yet.
Thx

G'day and welcome to the mad house.

As they say... If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
HI-TEK says Acetone. I use acetone.

Acetone is easier to get than Lacquer thinners.

Read page 19 post 366 (I think) and follow the steps

[kbstenberg]

Ausglock Have you tried using 2 different colors separately. That sounds redundant. Say 2 coats of an solid color, that may not be as good at wair resistance with the third color with a higher metallic content to be used as a rifle bullet?

[Ausglock]

I have coated with red/copper first coat and green for the second coat on a 45 RN TL bullet. it looked a bit like Camo coating.

[gunoil]

many wany believe this: My springfield xds45acp is made in croatia (really a HS-2000), but springfield sells in america.

I have shot alox lead thru it since day 1. It is incredible for i have small hands. Now for over couple months my pistols get Hi-Tek-Supercoat. I have not been cleaning xds much, so this morning i did the "Hickok45 way" from youtube. THE HI TEK HAS CLEANED THE BARREL FOR ME, I BRUSHED IT ONLY, NO OTHER STUFF/JUST BRUSH. LOOKS LIKE THE DAY I BOUGHT IT! SUPER CLEAN AND SHINY.

[gunoil]

many want believe this till ya try it: My springfield xds45acp is made in croatia (really a HS-2000), but springfield sells in america.

I have shot alox lead thru it since day 1. It is incredible for i have small hands. Now for over couple months my pistols get Hi-Tek-Supercoat. I have not been cleaning xds much, so this morning i did the "Hickok45 way" from youtube. THE HI TEK HAS CLEANED THE BARREL FOR ME, I BRUSHED IT ONLY, NO OTHER STUFF/JUST BRUSH. LOOKS LIKE THE DAY I BOUGHT IT! SUPER CLEAN AND SHINY.

[softlead1953]

Hello everyone,
Im finding this thread pretty interesting, I have wondered if anyone has tried to coat soft swaged lead bullets and shot for results ???

[Thompsoncustom]

Shot 20 more bullets today but this time through the CZ and the results were guess the same as the glock so no leading and the recovered bullets looked just the same. Next batch I will try 5-1-5 and see if that fixes my problems, I was going over bayou boats instruction and they recommend 5-1-5 at 165-175 degrees Fahrenheit.

[Ausglock]

Shot 20 more bullets today but this time through the CZ and the results were guess the same as the glock so no leading and the recovered bullets looked just the same. Next batch I will try 5-1-5 and see if that fixes my problems, I was going over bayou boats instruction and they recommend 5-1-5 at 165-175 degrees Fahrenheit.

TC. 165 -175 Deg F might be a bit cool.....:kidding:

[Gremlin460]

Anyone fired these through a stainless barrel yet?? I have a new 92fs stainless, had 104 rounds through it from new, 6 by the factory and 100 by me.

[Ausglock]

Grem. No problems. I have a Ray Pulver Stainless barrel in the Glock35 357Sig and I run coated with no problems.
SVI Racegun also stainless. again no issues at all.

92fs??? You know what the fs stands for??? F#*&%n Schit.
my mate has one. he just could not get a handle on it. bought an STI Edge, he is now happy and shooting 1000% better.

[Thompsoncustom]

TC. 165 -175 Deg F might be a bit cool.. ah **** you know what I meant :) 365-375 would be better.

[Lizard333]

There's a little more respect here up north for the 92 FS. Been used by our military for decades. Second only to the 1911, as far as number of active years in service. I have four, and they routinely out shoot my glock shooting buddies. 😎

[Ausglock]

There's a little more respect here up north for the 92 FS. Been used by our military for decades. Second only to the 1911, as far as number of active years in service. I have four, and they routinely out shoot my glock shooting buddies. ��

1911... Single stack heaven.

[nvolochenko]

hey gunoil can you post a close up pic of both bottles of the hi-tech coating?

[Gremlin460]

Grem. No problems. I have a Ray Pulver Stainless barrel in the Glock35 357Sig and I run coated with no problems.
SVI Racegun also stainless. again no issues at all.

92fs??? You know what the fs stands for??? F#*&%n Schit.
my mate has one. he just could not get a handle on it. bought an STI Edge, he is now happy and shooting 1000% better.

awww Trev be nice, I only shot it once so far, the last 10 rnd mag put 4 holes in the 9/10 zone 3 round ones and one large jagged one just to the right of centre, that will do me fine thnx.

Ask your mate if he wants to flog off any mags for it, cant locate any 2nd handies up here.

[Gremlin460]

There's a little more respect here up north for the 92 FS. Been used by our military for decades. Second only to the 1911, as far as number of active years in service. I have four, and they routinely out shoot my glock shooting buddies. ��

I like you :), my wife tells me she wants a S&W 1911 pro series... told her all good as long as its 9mm so we don't have to piss with different reloads.

[Shotgundrums]

G'day and welcome to the mad house.

As they say... If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
HI-TEK says Acetone. I use acetone.
Acetone is easier to get than Lacquer thinners.

Read page 19 post 366 (I think) and follow the steps

Awesome thanks! I ended up giving the klean strip lacquer thinner a try. It actually worked great. The coating coverage seemed more full bodied and smoother. The finished bullet was smoother too. Coating hardness was about the same. They did feel a little smoother through the sizer die as well. Now, just gotta load some and shoot:)

[gunoil]

novolochenko

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/4A46E3B3-BFC7-4A47-85A5-0CFD50594171-13419-00000EE0677EFEC3_zpsce916863.jpg

[golfhack]

Hi,
You may be lucky, and your caster may not have used any mold releases, then, projectiles would be clean, straight out of mold.
This is a problem that has not occurred here for many years, and, commercial casters all know not to use any thing that would interfere with coating.
Some do use the 500plus release agent which is Ok with mold release, and not interfere with coating methods.
Please send me an update as you can about your supplier use of mold release agents.


Got lucky, the caster does not use release agents and will provide unsized/unlubed. Now just got to wait for them to arrive and try again. Also confirmed that the caster that Gunoil recommended will do the same, also with no release agents. If no sizing/lubing, he will provide a $5/M discount.

[leadman]

thompsoncustom, that is centigrade, not farenheit. Cook at 375 degrees F.

popper, yes, there is a much greater resistance to pushing a patch thru the bore after firing Hi-Tek coating than with jacketed or wax based boolits. I may mix in a little moly and see if that helps with the friction.

I also found you do not want to shoot a Hi-Tek coated boolit at low velocity like target loads in the 38 Spl. or 32 S&W. My recommendation is if you would not fire jacketed at the chosen low velocity don't fire a HT coated boolit. They tend to not exit the bore.

[Ausglock]

A lot of Centerfire/sports pistol shooters here use coated bullets (DEWC) in 32s&w at low velocity with no problem. they are loading something like 1.2gr of AP-30 or something silly like that. You can almost hear the bullet puffing as it runs downrange.

[Thompsoncustom]

Cast around 300 today in the lovely weather 90 degrees here :veryconfu but I made sure they were all nice and frosted hoping to help the coating stick better. Also changed tumbling tubs and I fell like they setup like they should or atleast like the Bayou bullets instruction said they would. Gonna start baking here in a couple mins.

[gunoil]

Leadman, i disagree with pistol. I think they brush out real nice ,easy, clean, really quick. Dont know about rifles.

Now, i need some tips on 40s&w for my carbine. Some said they had problems coating 40?

[Ausglock]

Gunslick. 40 is no harder than 9mm etc etc. Just don't use the Lee carbide factory crimp die.
Ask me how I know..........:x
I did go back to 5-1-7 for the 40cal with the red/copper. 2 coats.

[gunoil]

ok ausglock, i have dillon 9mm crimp die . OK and lee seat die, that'll work.

[Thompsoncustom]

Well took 100rd's of the frosted bullets I casted and coated them with a 5-1-5 ratio 2 coats 4 mls each coat and shot 20 of them last night. Still looking good I pulled the barrel and it didn't seem to have any leading tho a patch will tell the whole store.

Now I wonder why the 5-1-5 ratio works for me in both my guns but the 5-1-10 doesn't work in anything of mine.

[HI-TEK]

Well took 100rd's of the frosted bullets I casted and coated them with a 5-1-5 ratio 2 coats 4 mls each coat and shot 20 of them last night. Still looking good I pulled the barrel and it didn't seem to have any leading tho a patch will tell the whole store.

Now I wonder why the 5-1-5 ratio works for me in both my guns but the 5-1-10 doesn't work in anything of mine.

Hi,
Generally, it is better to multi-coat with thin applications each time.
Using the more diluted mixture, and applying it say a total of 3 times, actually uses less coating and you also get much better multi layer and more even coverage.
I am not sure why you had problems, but it is easy to diagnose if testing is done after each coat, and especially after first coat.

Many use thinner and more diluted coating mix, because it seems to dry much quicker, less touch marks on finished products, and much smoother more even film and easier sizing.

As you may be aware, applying thicker coats makes sizing more difficult as film is extremely tough.

I try to make comparison of film to a sheet of glass. If 1/4 inch thick, and you try and flex, the material explodes, However, a very thin film or fiber is made from same glass, it becomes very pliable and much more flexible.

Similarities can be drawn with the coatings to such phenomena.

I am not saying the coating is hard as glass, but it seems to work the same way.

The difficulty is also that each user has their own coating system/methods , and they do vary somewhat with amounts being coated, size of container, amount of coating mixture being used, weather conditions etc.
So I think that there is also some variability with coating techniques being used by people which they adapt to their conditions to suit their own needs.

Unfortunately much of this is a learning curve for people until they develop their own system to get desired results.
The coatings work, but as noticed, you can get some variations with the way it is used also.
Happy to assist with any problematic areas and would appreciate your requests.

[gunoil]

What he⬆said.

Agree with that Hi-Tek, like lite thin stain coats. Ausglock gave me recipe for my carbine/40s&w. I'll do 2 or 3 thin stain coatings. Thanks.

[gunoil]

TC , come on man,, how do you measure your first coat ? 4 mls, what do you have , an atomic micro-meter. Still sounds like your thick! Your first baking should be thin, all mine are. Least your not getting leading. Either recipe would work.

[Ausglock]

Well took 100rd's of the frosted bullets I casted and coated them with a 5-1-5 ratio 2 coats 4 mls each coat and shot 20 of them last night. Still looking good I pulled the barrel and it didn't seem to have any leading tho a patch will tell the whole store.

Now I wonder why the 5-1-5 ratio works for me in both my guns but the 5-1-10 doesn't work in anything of mine.

Good job.

So long as you get the results you are after, it doesn't matter what mix you use. I have gone back to using 5-1-7 as the 5-1-10 was giving problems with some coatings.

[sunburn]

Having read this entire thread and placing an order through Donnie, my question is how long after the first coating comes out of the oven do you wait before the acetone/crush test?
Great thread, great forum, thanks to all who contribute.

[Thompsoncustom]

I just wait till it's cool than preform the test.


TC , come on man,, how do you measure your first coat ? 4 mls, what do you have , an atomic micro-meter. Still sounds like your thick! Your first baking should be thin, all mine are. Least your not getting leading. Either recipe would work.

Lol like I said I work for a vet clinic so I have tons of needle and syringes just lying around. I use a syringe to measure exactly how much liquid I pull from each bottle color/acetone/cat. I figure the best way to have repeatable results is to know exactly how much of everything i'm using down to the Unit :)

Also I agree it does seem thick but so far this is the only thing working, I might try less mixed coating for the first coat and do three coats total on the next batch.

Are you guys just eyeballing the measurements?

[Ausglock]

I was measuring, But now eyeball it.

[gunoil]

TC, i dont care what they say about you, you are alrite. Hey cant hurt to use the micro syringe. Dead on is dead on! I just use a plastic teaspoon 5-1 then the last acetone bath washes all down good. How bout cooking in air-pellet mashed in HP? hehehe I know the swaging guys have started swageing in air-pellets in their projectiles. I have poly molds i make from hobby lobby stuff then pour plastic into them. I sell db9 grip plugs on ebay.

Ausglock, how does black look? Like a talon?

[RDP]

Gunoil,
Is your SDX in the safety recall, mine is a low # and I never had a problem with about 2000 lead reloads. I am not sure if i am going to send it back?
What do you think.
Sorry to all if this is a waste of bandwith.
Thanks,
Rich

[Ausglock]

Ausglock, how does black look? Like a talon?

It looks as black as a black cat's ****.
Got some new colour samples from HI-TEK yesterday.
2 purples, a Gold, a blue, a Fluro Orange and a natural.
The natural has metallic elements, but no colour. this could be interesting. I'm coating with it over the weekend.

[Thompsoncustom]

Looking forward to see all the new colors. Orange and Natural sound interesting.

[gunoil]

Rdp, i'll call em tomorrow and see how portant it is, Mine runs like criptonite.

[jcobb651]

I want a zombie green color!

[farmerjim]

Thompsoncustom you wrote " I work for a vet clinic so I have tons of needle and syringes just lying around. I use a syringe to measure exactly how much liquid I pull from each bottle color/acetone/cat." Question, Does it make a difference what breed of cat that you add? I have 2 orange tabbies and two tortoiseshells. Would one be better than the other for my 9mm ?

[Thompsoncustom]

I'd add them all probably get some neat colored bullets. ;)

[Ausglock]

I want a zombie green color!

HI-TEK Does a Zombie Green. It is one of my favourites.

[gunoil]

ok, iam a setting my iphone to remember me! I have spoke with the boys before. If it goes auto, i aint sayin nothin. hehehehe.

I want some green to try.

Farmerjim, just sling em cats by the tails out in the cow manure.

[jmoore]

... As to whether the base or color gives the strength, for the green, I'd say the base. I spilled some mixed on a paper towel, the base wicked out about 2x the dia as the color and stiffness was the same for both. As for the copper (rifle rated?) I think H-T is trying to get a tougher filler.

Thanks for the pondering! Have loaded up some Green 429421 boolits for testing with some 1980's vintage Unique. Found that 9gr of that powder was much hotter with the similar weight Lachmillers than expected, so have backed off to 8gr to see if that's a "happy" load at distance.

Oddly, it's the same old story, lighter loads have produced more leading than full tilt rounds filled with 2400. I just don't like getting beat up that much...

[jcobb651]

HI-TEK Does a Zombie Green. It is one of my favourites.

Flourescent green? I thought they only offered the dark metallic green......

[Ausglock]

Flourescent green? I thought they only offered the dark metallic green......

Not quite Fluro. but there is more than one green.

[gunoil]

who'ed a thunk it not so long ago.
1) nowdays making custom molds with no lube grooves. (lube is 4 letter word)
2) wonderful coated bullets
3) sized slick and hard
4) goes in brass like copper plated

Shot a bunch of these 380's/108gr
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/2B29D6B9-BD04-430A-8E01-BE86FD62D353-10110-00000B3A654D9BDC_zpse49ae05c.jpg
Made down the street with blank NOE mold an old handle from lee:
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/5F2C277B-713B-4F04-AAB9-BCE7A6EC6DF3-8304-0000086456940752_zps03216380.jpg

[Ausglock]

Well... Playing with the new HI-TEK colours today.

There is a Red Violet that bakes a very nice Burgundy.
The Natural bakes a light gold. This actually has no colour in it. HI-TEK was saying that this has a heap of elements in it to make it extra tough. I would have to say he is right. I placed 2 45 bullets in the bottle to act as rattle balls to help it mix. It took a good 10 minutes of constant shaking to get it to fully mix, before measuring out to mix for coating.

The elusive blue is still elusive, but it is getting closer :-)
I picked up a new oven from Ebay this week.
It is a HELLER brand 48 Litre with top and bottom heating elements, a huge fan at the rear with 4 air vents. this oven really pumps out the air in the compartment. A full tray of 9mm bullets showed no hotspots via colour changes across the tray. 200Deg C on the dial measured exactly 200 Deg C with a 5 Deg C variation. I am very happy with this oven.
Check it out on Ebay Australia. It was cheap at $109 AUD Plus $10 postage.
I was baking full trays of 9mm and 45 bullets at 200 deg for 10 minutes. Zero wipeoff or darkening of the colour of any of the experimental coatings.
Anyway... Back to coating.

[Gremlin460]

Well done Trev.. hurry up with the blue :P

[leadman]

I do know that when the temperatures were around 117 degrees here that the trays left in the sun to dry would start to change color. Would and infared panel work like it does with powder coating?

[HI-TEK]

Question for Hi-Tek. Will this stuff cure properly with UV? I think someone said it starts to pop in sunlight which is mostly UV. I know some are using IR lamps for heat but it would be neat to be able to use UV lamps to cure without the oven. Drying rig could be used for curing.

Popper,
Thank you for interesting question.
To be quite frank, we have not tried using Infra red or UV. In terms of sunlight some of the colours will fade, and we have not done any outdoor stability of cured coatings, as there is really no real reason to do such work.
The coatings are designed, to specifically cross-link & polymerise when temperatures approach 180C.
I don't know if UV or even Microwave will get temperatures that high, but as we have done no work in these areas, I really cannot advise if success can be achieved.
I suppose the only way to try is to actually do some tests to see if enough heat can be generated with such methods.
May be you can lead the work in such research and benefit if successful.
Thank you much for your interest and thoughts.
Hi-Tek

[Thompsoncustom]

Anyone try any coated bullets with a super fast powder like VihtaVuori N310. Since faster powders seem harder on the bullet it seems like n310 would be the ultimate test when it comes to powders.

The main reason I ask is I've been able to get unique and power pistol to work but bullseye seems to always want to lead.

[gunoil]

Have cast over 1000,going for 2000 of these for my 380's.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/EAF1A40F-3778-400D-852F-AF5639BA408A-8304-000008A9B7288297_zps8a5838cc.jpg

No lube rings is the way of the future? Well, least round here.

[zomby woof]

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/100_8823.JPG

[hawaii five-0]

Im loading the Lee 155 gr projo in .300 Blk, and using HTC Black. My question is- Gas check installed before or after HTC?

[Ausglock]

ZW. Nice Photo.

Popper. I don't WD. I only use 92,6,2 alloy for 9mm, 358, 40
And range lead for 44, 45.

I tried mixing 25ml of a Blue with 25ml of Natural, hoping it might stay blue after baking.
No...didn't work. the coating baked a dark green. Smash and wipe fine, so these will get loaded rather than re-melted.

I have a purple coating that showed promise. It baked a burgandy colour.
I'm going to try it 70/30 with the Natural to see if it will lighten up any. The natural adds metallic elements to the coating as it is heavy in metals. this make the coating tougher.

[gunoil]

ausglock, you ever feel like the maytag man? Nothing broke,nothing to fix, no complaints, no warranty calls, just setting around. huh? Simple hi-tek.

[Ausglock]

ausglock, you ever feel like the maytag man? Nothing broke,nothing to fix, no complaints, no warranty calls, just setting around. huh? Simple hi-tek.

Gunslick. Mate. you got it.
Just chillin with my Supercoat.
just Makin' & coatin' bullets... yeah baby..
New oven is sweet. holds temp perfectly and the cyclone strength fan has every bullet coming out the same colour with no hotspots.

I am now mixing and matching different colours to try and get something unique.
going to try a red and the natural to see if it will go pink.

What have you been up to?

[gunoil]

I have enough hi-tek made up rite now, Have new primmer system for loadmaster from magic mike. Working on my big truck kenworth. Putting a pedal system (yea)on my star sizer, gotta get some machined parts and my ox/acc tanks filled. Gotta tune up my mig welder. Bought a lcp ruger 380 and a tcp taurus 380. Been running 380 on loadmaster, a blast!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC9Yb1SVZxk

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/E64A8E23-6BF6-477A-A87D-90AC85A2CD10-867-0000010785995337_zpsbd6c9d1b.mp4

Closed off walk thru hole, took sleeper off, put it in my hangar, I aint truckin no more. Might make me a motor home to go to california in the winter. Gotta lot of friends out there and arizona.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/1443855C-60AB-42CA-8D76-D23AA4BCAD9D-242-000002DD95DA8920_zps6cb9a930.jpg
New ruger below:
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/58D35E2B-4DF6-46FC-BBDA-73D561C7ACD0-13922-00000E273D1C7880_zpsc8410300.jpg

My sig just came back for free updates:
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/71E926E2-3904-4016-B0F3-72EF25226DB6-1426-0000016FB76E864B_zps4c3d2ced.jpg

Hes me landing my experimental plane @KFAY. Ya gotta hook up ear phones and listen to lycoming engine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIISXHnP6Y8

[Ausglock]

more info on the priming system? and who is Magic mike?
I had a loadmaster and sold it off because it was a pig to use. I now have a Dillon 550 and a Square dealB. The square deal stays setup for 45ACP. the 550 does all the rest.

[gunoil]

magic mike: mikesreloadingbench.com

Retired engineer from texas, he finally invented a mod to allow lee primer system to work. And his other components all add up to a working loadmaster.
here: ausglock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC9Yb1SVZxk

[rowe_s]

I'm going to try this coating with an old Lee 180 grain 30-06 mold. Anybody got advice.

[Ausglock]

I'm going to try this coating with an old Lee 180 grain 30-06 mold. Anybody got advice.

Use gold or red/copper. Mix 5-1-7 and coat & Bake 3 times.
read Page 19 post #366.

[gunoil]

ausglock? u look at : mikesreloadingbench.com? http://www.mikesreloadingbench.com/

The new primer is not on there but i'll make sure u get one. L or S? or both?

[Ausglock]

yeah. had a look.
I don't have the loadmaster anymore.
He has spent a lot of time on getting it to run right.

[gunoil]

heres cutting new sliders, iam beta tester fir a while now, just made some 45acp ammo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Lka1YoHBU

Cooked some 135 gr NOE's tonite. Da ya reckon that oven temp gage is rite. It showed my Con oven off around 70 degrees. Well Shat!

[gunoil]

Ordered some green!

Doing a few of these: Last (3) coat i did they looked great and mailed em off.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/A3E7D22D-4953-4B7B-9FCB-DF0CD0225BA3-3986-0000045283EC6596_zps7f5b0e6f.jpg

[btroj]

Hey, I recognize those.

Those boys are gonna be interesting to test out. I hope they can handle some speed, I can get them over 2500 of they want. I just don't know if I want to shoot many at that speed

[Shotgundrums]

Ok. Got the green stuff. I cast a bunch of rcbs 158gr rnfp. Mix up 5:1:6 ratio. Coat thin first coat. Cook at 365 for 10 mins. Wipe test smash test: pass. Coated two more times. Last coat wipe test smash test: pass. I goes to size... First thing I notice is the coating chipping on the corner of the plane base. I keep sizing and notice more than half of the bullets' baring surface coating is wilted. And it chipped away when I poked at it with pen tip. ***!?

[Love Life]

Bummer. Try again!!

[prickett]

Ok. Got the green stuff. I cast a bunch of rcbs 158gr rnfp. Mix up 5:1:6 ratio. Coat thin first coat. Cook at 365 for 10 mins. Wipe test smash test: pass. Coated two more times. Last coat wipe test smash test: pass. I goes to size... First thing I notice is the coating chipping on the corner of the plane base. I keep sizing and notice more than half of the bullets' baring surface coating is wilted. And it chipped away when I poked at it with pen tip. ***!?

Doesn't sound like you cooked hot enough. The boolits have to get to reach 365. So you might want to try cooking at 400.

[Ausglock]

Ok. Got the green stuff. I cast a bunch of rcbs 158gr rnfp. Mix up 5:1:6 ratio. Coat thin first coat. Cook at 365 for 10 mins. Wipe test smash test: pass. Coated two more times. Last coat wipe test smash test: pass. I goes to size... First thing I notice is the coating chipping on the corner of the plane base. I keep sizing and notice more than half of the bullets' baring surface coating is wilted. And it chipped away when I poked at it with pen tip. ***!?

Coating too thick.
Don't use as much.
With the green, I mix 5-1-10. and only do 2 coats.
What size die you using?

I had no luck at all trying to size coated bullets with RCBS or Lyman conventional size dies. I had the coating getting ripped off the bullets.
I now only use Lee push through sizers.

[Shotgundrums]

Coating too thick.
Don't use as much.
With the green, I mix 5-1-10. and only do 2 coats.
What size die you using?

I had no luck at all trying to size coated bullets with RCBS or Lyman conventional size dies. I had the coating getting ripped off the bullets.
I now only use Lee push through sizers.
I'm too guessing maybe too thick... The bullets are rcbs. I sized to .358 with lee push-through die.

[Shotgundrums]

Had another miserable fail last night... Following directions to the letter. I even bought a nice Oster oven. Is there something about the green that makes it such a bastard child to use? Are the others (red copper, gold, black etc) any better? The only option I have left is to get a temp thermometer and see if my oven is lying.
Just spent the last 3 hours casting 250 slugs and coating. No release agents on bullets. Real close to throwing this green dogs**t in the trash...please help:mad:

[Ausglock]

the green is actually the easiest of the coatings to use.

How are you measuring the 3 parts?
Do get a thermometer. These small oven thermostats can be way way off.

[Shotgundrums]

the green is actually the easiest of the coatings to use.

How are you measuring the 3 parts?
Do get a thermometer. These small oven thermostats can be way way off.
Lol great... What kind of thermometer? Perhaps I'll go to the hardware store and see if they've got one. I measure using little measuring spoons. I'm pretty exacting with the color and hardener. Then just add the parts acetone the same way. Little shakes before applying. Coat. Dry to tough. Bake...,pissed off lol

[Ausglock]

I use a digital thermometer from Ebay.
When you mix, to you add the 3 ingredients to the coating container to coat the bullets or do you mix enough in a holding bottle to do a few containers worth of bullets?
Adding the ingredients directly to the bullets in the shake container is not a good way of doing it.
Dry to touch....not good enough.
Leave them for at least 10 minutes. I leave for 1/2 hour after coating and then Bake them

[Shotgundrums]

I measure out the 3 ingredients, put them in a bottle, then apply it from that bottle. I try to make only enough solution for what I'll use at the time. I toss some bullets in the plastic bucket, squirt some of the mixed ingredients onto the bullets from the bottle, tumble and swirl until they start sounding sticky, poor em and spread out on mesh...Makes sense about waiting longer before cooking though.

[gunoil]

oven temp gage, & let dry 30 mins / first coating like A said. I just ordered some green. Pre-heat oven/pre-heat oven, It will drop a lil' when you put boolits in. My gage is just setting there in view and i might crank it up a lil' and then back down to stay close to 375. Can you bake a box cake? hehehehe.

[Love Life]

I dump them before they get stick and the sound changes. I get a much better coating that way. Once the sound changes, the bullets stick together, and end up all splotchy.

[leadman]

If your coating is rough looking then they were not dry enough before cooking. Also try not to handle the boolits before coating as oils from your hands can affect the coating sticking.
Also lube the boolits with case lube before sizing, especially of there is any resistance when sizing.
A temperature gauge is essential for use with these small ovens. I use an oven temperature gauge set on the rack so I can see it thru the window. If the coating is overcooked it becomes brittle and darker and will chip off easily. If your sizing die is dirty it also makes it harder to size the boolits.
And shake the containers vigorously before each use, including the one with the mixed ingredients in it. The ingredients seperate in just a minute of setting.

[Shotgundrums]

Rogger all the advise! I'll get an oven thermometer and let the bullets dry more. It's gotta be that. My only concern now is the thermometers integrity.

[high standard 40]

Concerning thermometers. I bought an Oster oven for this purpose (digital controls) and an oven thermometer (bi-metal type).
The oven dial reads one temperature and the thermometer reads another. On a whim, I placed a casting thermometer in the oven alongside the "oven thermometer" so that I could read both from through the window. You guessed it, two different readings and neither matched the oven dial. Given the fact that the "oven thermometer" was a rather cheap item, I have decided to use the casting thermometer because I tend to trust it more. Most of us already have one, why not use it.

[Shotgundrums]

Is it ok to just toss the whole lead thermometer in the oven? Wouldn't the prong touching metal potentially cause issues?

[dverna]

Had another miserable fail last night... Following directions to the letter. I even bought a nice Oster oven. Is there something about the green that makes it such a bastard child to use? Are the others (red copper, gold, black etc) any better? The only option I have left is to get a temp thermometer and see if my oven is lying.
Just spent the last 3 hours casting 250 slugs and coating. No release agents on bullets. Real close to throwing this green dogs**t in the trash...please help:mad:

I thought this was "simple"? LOL

Just yanking your chain. It must be a bitch thinking you are doing everything right and results are poor. I suspect your oven temperature may not be correct. The mixing and coating seem hard to screw up. Good luck!!

Don Verna

[Shotgundrums]

I thought this was "simple"? LOL

Just yanking your chain. It must be a bitch thinking you are doing everything right and results are poor. I suspect your oven temperature may not be correct. The mixing and coating seem hard to screw up. Good luck!!

Don Verna
Exactamundo! Gotta be dry time and oven. I've nearly perfected the epoxy method of coating with impeccable results and exponential durability. I was starting to doubt this hitek stuff. But, ill keep trying. I guess I'll order a lead thermometer soon.

[prickett]

Its interesting how so many people doing the same thing can have so many different results. I nailed HI-TEK on the first attempt, but have yet to get Klass Kote to work.

I'd bet one or both of these things are the problem:

Your temp is wrong (a thermometer will fix your problem). My oven temp was about 25 degrees cooler than the setting
You are trying to cook more than your oven can handle. Too many and the oven can't get up to a hot enough temp. Limit to around 100 9mm's or 75 .45's and see if that works.

[Shotgundrums]

Its interesting how so many people doing the same thing can have so many different results. I nailed HI-TEK on the first attempt, but have yet to get Klass Kote to work.

I'd bet one or both of these things are the problem:

Your temp is wrong (a thermometer will fix your problem). My oven temp was about 25 degrees cooler than the setting
You are trying to cook more than your oven can handle. Too many and the oven can't get up to a hot enough temp. Limit to around 100 9mm's or 75 .45's and see if that works.

Touché! I was putting 200+ 158gr bullets (boolits lol) into the oven at once. Perhaps I'll reduce it to what you suggest.
Thanks everyone for all the helpful advise!

[Shotgundrums]

Alrighty..... I ordered a thermometer from rotometals. For those that use their lead thermo should I suspend the thermometer inside the oven somehow so the prong doesn't touch anything???

[Thompsoncustom]

If you have a wire basket you could just throw the thermometer is it with the bullets as long as you can still read it.

Ya I had a ton of problems with this coating but I think most of mine was the powder I was using as it seems to fail pretty hard with fast powders. But I have tired all kinds of things in the process of getting it to work.

Now when I'm casting bullets I run them as hot as I can to get them frosty with the idea that the uneven surface will help the hi tek coating stick to the bullets. Is there coating packed into your lube grooves? It seems to me that to much coating it the groove seems to cause a weak point or at least the bullets are more likely to chip when fired this way this he been my personal experience.

Try some different ratio's 5-1-10 works good for most but 5-1-5 seems to work better for me so far and vary the amount you add say 5mls of mixed coating for 250 bullets and if that's not enough try 8 or 10 etc.

I'm sure you'll get it just can be frustrating as hell trying to get it to work.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Cleaned the 30-30 tonite. First 4 patches were absolutely black. Saw a few tiny speckles of silver. Chore boy'd a few strokes and more black patches. ~ 20 rnds GC 165, 20 no GC 165, 40 PB RD311s, plinker loads. Didn't get the gunk ring at the muzzle as I did with full loads. Accuracy isn't any better than undersized lasercast factory CBs at the same powder load. The dark green coating doesn't cut it for me in rifle. I can shoot 100 hot loads in 308 PCd with better accuracy and a clean bbl. Back to powder coating. Guess I was just wishing for too much. Nothing else to add to this thread so have fun.


Popper,
Sorry to hear your having problems. What concerns me is the "gunk" you report patching from your bbl. As it would seem to indicate that possibly we have a curing problem with the coating.
If you wish call me as it may be easier to discuss via phone, or pm me your number and a good time to call you.
Thanks
Donnie
225 324 4501

[Shotgundrums]

If you have a wire basket you could just throw the thermometer is it with the bullets as long as you can still read it.

Ya I had a ton of problems with this coating but I think most of mine was the powder I was using as it seems to fail pretty hard with fast powders. But I have tired all kinds of things in the process of getting it to work.

Now when I'm casting bullets I run them as hot as I can to get them frosty with the idea that the uneven surface will help the hi tek coating stick to the bullets. Is there coating packed into your lube grooves? It seems to me that to much coating it the groove seems to cause a weak point or at least the bullets are more likely to chip when fired this way this he been my personal experience.

Try some different ratio's 5-1-10 works good for most but 5-1-5 seems to work better for me so far and vary the amount you add say 5mls of mixed coating for 250 bullets and if that's not enough try 8 or 10 etc.

I'm sure you'll get it just can be frustrating as hell trying to get it to work.

Roger that
Thanks!!

[gunoil]

here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWf4n2P_nwE&feature=relmfu

[Mike Hughes]

here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWf4n2P_nwE&feature=relmfu
Hey gunoil, are those Hi Tek coated? Did you also use Lee alox? Lots of smoke!

[gunoil]

Thats not gunoil, Na, i found on youtube, Star lubed hard cast bullets. You all are lazy, thats a 4 part prepper video. Watch all of em.

I dont do rifle, just thought you guys would like vids.

[Mike Hughes]

Thats not gunoil, Na, i found on youtube, Star lubed hard cast bullets. You all are lazy, thats a 4 part prepper video. Watch all of em.

I dont do rifle, just thought you guys would like vids.
Ok, I thought that was you. This has nothing to do with Hi-Tek, a video I did today with my Beowulf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeobTf_xYHQ&feature=youtu.be

[nighthunter]

I think the Fruit Police will be looking for you very soon. You have to be a moral degenerate slob to murder not just one but two perfectly peaceful Cantelopes. What did those cantilopes ever do to you? Then you turn around and sleigh a gorgeous gourd. You even had them corralled up so they couldn't have a chance of escape. I hope this gets taken the whole way to Obummers desk. You won't be laughing when they send a couple dozen drones armed with hell fire missles to hunt you down.

Nighthunter

[gunoil]

Oh yes M hughes. the vid (4 part) i put up above shows a start at shooting 223 and how to start. "Preppers" video could even be better with hi-tek, plus prepper knows what hes doing.

[Gremlin460]

I am about to order some HT coating, question #1 how long does the coating last stored in boxes, for example if I coated 2000 boolits and took 6-8 weeks or longer before I loaded them and shot them, is there a use by date.
Second reason for asking is to allow the twice heated lead to age harden a little.
I am figuring on loading these 9mm RN with 5.2 to 5.6gn of Alliance PP.
Anyone tried the load config as yet, or has any suggestions to toss my way?
Cheers...
Mike.

edit: the boolits are RN out of a lee and weigh in at 132.8 grains.

[Ausglock]

once coated, they will last forever.

[leadman]

popper, the Red Copper is recommended for the rifles, then the gold. They have more solids in them to aid in protecting the rifle bores.
I do get some black stuff out of my bores but it comes out easy. Just let Hoppe's #9 or Gunslick foaming bore cleaner set for 15 minutes in the bore and it takes 3 or so patches to clean out.

[Ausglock]

Popper. I am trialing a superhard experimental coating from HI-TEK.

If the trial works, then this stuff will be the duck's guts's for rifles and raceguns with popple holes and compensators. The Desert Eagle owners will be able to run coated bullets as well and not have to worry about the gas port blocking up.

Watch this space...........

[gunoil]

Thats great ausglock, my "hi-tek bullet mold lube" and green hi-tek bullet coating came today.

[kweidner]

Popper. I am trialing a superhard experimental coating from HI-TEK.

If the trial works, then this stuff will be the duck's guts's for rifles and raceguns with popple holes and compensators. The Desert Eagle owners will be able to run coated bullets as well and not have to worry about the gas port blocking up.

Watch this space...........

I will be all over that like a pack of coyotes on a gut pile. Please keep us informed!

[Gremlin460]

once coated, they will last forever.

Thanks, Trev Was worried QLD heat would degrade the coating after a few weeks/months.
In a previous post you said you was playing with some purple, how did it work out and good enough for 9mm?
Cheers.. Mike

[Ausglock]

The purple is sweet. It is a burgundy/purple. dark and shiny.
I'll post a photo when I get home thisarvo.

[HI-TEK]

Thats great ausglock, my "hi-tek bullet mold lube" and green hi-tek bullet coating came today.

According to OMJ Gunworks, they are "Snake oil Green" and "Monkey snot mold lube"... lol...

Ausglock has "Zombie green", and "desert sand camouflage "...lol.... What next???.....

Sneaky Ausglock, has so many colours, that his "mad scientist" set up is mindblowing freaky colours, and I am sure he stands around at night with special lighting to reflect all colours around his lab, lol

[jmoore]

popper, the Red Copper is recommended for the rifles, then the gold. They have more solids in them to aid in protecting the rifle bores.
I do get some black stuff out of my bores but it comes out easy. Just let Hoppe's #9 or Gunslick foaming bore cleaner set for 15 minutes in the bore and it takes 3 or so patches to clean out.

Have an 1891 Argentine Mauser that's due to have some cast boolit loads worked up. Would like to approach the original MV of about 2000fps with a 210gr boolit. (30" bbl.) Bore's extremely nice and shows no fouling of any sort currently, so it'll be like starting with a clean 120 year old slate...

[Shotgundrums]

"Red" lol

[Shotgundrums]

Gonna load up some green 158gr bullets over 14.5gr of 2400 for 357mag. We shall see.

[Ausglock]

yep.. red. Frog green. Vomit yellow. and bunghole brown.
Most of these will never see the light of day commercially.
Only red is a keeper.

[Shotgundrums]

And that's what the label should read; Red.
That's Funny

[Ausglock]

yep. a highly technical term.

[gunoil]

Al rite, you'll all straighten up! Or your gonna look like wambat soup.

[Ausglock]

Ah... Wombat Soup.
To cook this, you place one large Wombat in the pot. Add 3 good sized rocks and carrots and any other ingredients you wish. cook for 6 hours on a medium flame.
After 6 hours throw out the wombat and eat the rocks. Cause Wombats are tough and taste like Schit and the rocks will be softer than the Wombat.

[Gateway Bullets]

According to OMJ Gunworks, they are "Snake oil Green" and "Monkey snot mold lube"... lol...

Ausglock has "Zombie green", and "dogdick red" "desert sand camouflage "...lol.... What next???.....

Sneaky Ausglock, has so many colours, that his "mad scientist" set up is mindblowing freaky colours, and I am sure he stands around at night with special lighting to reflect all colours around his lab, lol

But Joe, that was said with "love" lol lol lol

[goblism]

Having some issues with the lee sizing die. The sizing die is taking some of the coating off of the bullet, the main bullets I am having are with my 476 and my 452 sizers. On some of the larger diameter bullets of the mix there is a fair amount of pure lead exposed/stripped away(entire side at times)
Tempted to coat once, size, than coat two more times. Might be more hassle than what it is worth though.
Have been doing light coats of 5-1-7

[Ausglock]

The only Time I have had problems with lee sizer dies taking off the coating, was when I was using 8BHN alloy. Hardened it up to 10 and above and no problems since.
Is the coating fully baked (will not wipe off)?

[goblism]

They are straight wheel weights so a bhn of about 12ish.
Passes smash and acetone wipe tests.
Just frustrated with this, my 358 sizing has no issues nor does my 430, just the larger bullets

[Ausglock]

I do 9mm, 357mag,40, 44 and 45 and have no sizing issues with any of them.
Have you checked out the inside of the 45 sizer?
no burs or anything?

[leadman]

goblism, try using case lube on the boolits when sizing. I found out that if there is alot of resistance in the press handle when resizing it may remove some of the coating. Also have had the bottom punch push into the base of the boolit some. When lubed this does not happen.
I had one boolit I had to drill a hole thru the center to get it out of the sizing die. This was a soft 8 BHN.
I was reading an old Handloader bullet casting annual and saw the article on using Super grex shotgun filler in cartridges under boolits. Said it even removed leading so I may try to find some and try it in the high velocity rifle loads to see if it removes the fouling in the bore.
Dave Scovill was the author and he said longer strings of fire were possible with the filler.
If I can't find the Grex I may try Puff-Lon.

[HI-TEK]

They are straight wheel weights so a bhn of about 12ish.
Passes smash and acetone wipe tests.
Just frustrated with this, my 358 sizing has no issues nor does my 430, just the larger bullets

If you contact Donnie, and have a talk.
He can supply you a lube that can be applied to coated projectiles, Hi-Tek-Lube 5000, that will greatly help with sizing larger diameter projectiles.
Also, he can supply a product called Extreme catalyst, and you can use it with coatings, instead of normal catalyst, on large diameter projectiles and harder alloys, to allow easy sizing after coating is complete.
These can reduce drag by up to 50%.
It will certainly help with harder alloys and larger projectile size reductions.
These two are non contaminating and will not interfere with coating processes.
Hope this helps

[redrockant]

get the Iube I Stripped coating before using the lube... Think it was me ramming projies through the sizer.

[Ausglock]

I find the 9mm bullets harder to size than the 45 bullets.
Even sizing .359 down to .356 is easy. but a lot easier with the 5000 lube.

[gunoil]

What happened to the last post i made to day, There is a problem.

[HI-TEK]

What happened to the last post i made to day, There is a problem.

I had similar problems.
What I had learnt, that once you start a message, you cannot leave it and do something else, as message just wipes out and disappears.
Had to start again with new message and complete it without stopping and post it

[gunoil]

no , hi tek, worst than that bjorn post was up there too and bullets i coated for him. He gave ramge report. 3 or 4 post are missing and other member answered him too. And i wrote nother post about buying hi tek mold lube from bayou.

[Ausglock]

Yep. they were there. now they are gone.
Very strange.
Maybe a Moderator can shed some light on it?

[HI-TEK]

no , hi tek, worst than that bjorn post was up there too and bullets i coated for him. He gave ramge report. 3 or 4 post are missing and other member answered him too. And i wrote nother post about buying hi tek mold lube from bayou.


Most strange.
Why would any one delete results of a shoot???
Can bjorn re-post the results and others comments?
I must have missed it as I can recall seeing such blogs.
I am very interested in results and comments.

[btroj]

I think he meant btroj, or bjorn, as I did post some test results. I started a new thread on rifle test with Hi-Tek coating.

I got decent accuracy in my rifle at 1750 fps but it was horrible at 2100 fps. Alloy wasn't up to the task. One issue with this coating is the annealing of heat treat during the curing of the coating.

An a lower temp for more time be used? What happens if we use 200 F for 20 to 30 minutes?

Can we heat to 350 for 20 minutes, or longer, and then water drop them?

Brad

[Thompsoncustom]

Popper what about adding some sulfur to your mix if you haven't already. I have no idea if the added grain refiner would be any help since you have AS in there already or not.

[Thompsoncustom]

From what I was reading CU water dropped bullets resulted in a lower hardness than S water dropped.

http://www.lasc.us/WiljenArsenic.htm

[btroj]

But Cu seems to let a higher Sb alloy retain some toughness. Seems the Cu mitigates the normal brittleness that Sb causes.

[gunoil]

btroj, thats wierd the post disappeared! Yours,mine,and another.

[btroj]

It was weird. Then again, the results with thenbullets you coated for me are in a different thread here.

Oh well

[gunoil]

Oh, ok,"btroj",, how'ed i get in another thread? hehehe. Well back to RE-INTERING my post to this thread.

Ausglock told me to try bullet mold lube, so i got some from bayoubullets. It sure made a difference and its dry and white and does not get greasy and burnt dirty like other mold lube. Dropping lots better.

[HI-TEK]

TC - the list of hardeners has Cu at the top, S about halfway, BUT the lead will take more S than Cu. In my testing the Cu is better by a little. It is easier and don't flame or stink so much. The S also forms compound sulphite/sulfate with the Sb, Sn. CuSb is the only compound formed with Cu added.

Addition of Sulphur will cause problems with trying to use the coating.
The Sulphur forms acidic materials and this will prevent adhesion of coating to alloy.
Happened before so pre-warned is pre-armed.

[HI-TEK]

Oh, ok,"btroj",, how'ed i get in another thread? hehehe. Well back to RE-INTERING my post to this thread.

Ausglock told me to try bullet mold lube, so i got some from bayoubullets. It sure made a difference and its dry and white and does not get greasy and burnt dirty like other mold lube. Dropping lots better.

Glad that it has worked for you.
The stuff has very good temperature resistance and should provide mirror finish with cast alloys if lube is polished on with a soft cloth and when you have a ghostly white film residue on surfaces.
Polishing is not necessary, but application should be very sparing, as you dont need much for it to work well.

[Thompsoncustom]

TC - the list of hardeners has Cu at the top, S about halfway, BUT the lead will take more S than Cu. In my testing the Cu is better by a little. It is easier and don't flame or stink so much. The S also forms compound sulphite/sulfate with the Sb, Sn. CuSb is the only compound formed with Cu added.

:coffeecom As far as my metallurgy goes is mixing WW with pure lead and that's about it. I do have 5 pounds of sulfur hanging out and thought I might experiment with it but the above post from hi tek says this is another thing that will mess up the coating.

Maybe I was reading the chart wrong but it looked like to be that as cast CU was 10BHN and S was 9BHN when water dropped but after that S had higher numbers. Week 1 CU=15BHN S=17BHN
Week 2 CU=15BHN S=18BHN.

But with air cooled alloy CU was at 10 after 4 weeks where S was at 9.

What about mixing both? Is that a possible option trying to get the best of both worlds or would you run into problems from copper sulfate?

[zomby woof]

Moving from pistol to 30 Carbine with green HT. Do the gas checks need to be coated or stay naked?

[Ausglock]

At 30 carbine velocity, you should be able to use un-checked.

[HI-TEK]

Moving from pistol to 30 Carbine with green HT. Do the gas checks need to be coated or stay naked?

Hi,
Generally, gas check are used to shield alloy from heat cutting and trying to prevent heat damage from high energy powders to Lead alloys.
As alloys are sized after final coating is done, there is no reason why gas checks cannot be coated,
if it also allows final sizing to be done with the gas checks on alloys.
If sizing cannot be done with Gas checks, then it would be difficult to coat and then size.

The coatings, all have a good heat shielding property, and the "metallics" offer better heat shielding, such as Red Copper, Bronzed Copper, Gold variants, and "Natural" coatings.

I suggest that you try a few and see if you can make it work.
The coatings should stick to most gas checks.
Please ensure, that coated projectiles are all dried very well before baking.

[bill_clancy]

OK...I read this thread and bit. Ordered the kit from Bayu, found a convection oven in the thrift shop, & modified the rack with hardware cloth. Created an ugly wooden framed drying rack with 1x1 pine and more 1/4" hardware cloth. Found squeeze bottles and measuring cups in a hobby shop, and cast some 9mm 125 gr Lee TL bullets to test this all out.
Flying by the seat of my pants, with the directions from Bayu, youtube, and you fine folks...I think we have a winner. They look really nice, but now I have to load 'em up and shoot some. Wish me luck, I'll report back!

[HI-TEK]

OK...I read this thread and bit. Ordered the kit from Bayu, found a convection oven in the thrift shop, & modified the rack with hardware cloth. Created an ugly wooden framed drying rack with 1x1 pine and more 1/4" hardware cloth. Found squeeze bottles and measuring cups in a hobby shop, and cast some 9mm 125 gr Lee TL bullets to test this all out.
Flying by the seat of my pants, with the directions from Bayu, youtube, and you fine folks...I think we have a winner. They look really nice, but now I have to load 'em up and shoot some. Wish me luck, I'll report back!

Great,
Thanks for your update. Sounds as you had grabbed the bull by the horns.
I would appreciate if you can post some photos as well.
Photos tell all when you look at them and it is easier to appreciate your efforts.

[bill_clancy]

My camera blows...I'll see if I can get some shots though.

[gunoil]

Clancy's, didnt you used to run with billy the kid, down in las cruses?





Glad your here, I went whole hog like that too.

[hawgfan]

Got a quick question. I recently ordered the Hi-Tek kit (Green). I have followed the directions to the letter, my question is. Does the final products look spotty on the bullet? I have coated twice and baked twice. They are the right color, and they pass the acetone test and smash test. No lead is visible it's just a swirl looking effect. I will try and get a picture uploaded but not making any promises. I was just wondering if this is normal. Thanks

[Ausglock]

What mix did you use?
So long as there is no bare lead, you should be good to go.
The 5-1-7 is a good all round mix. It gives a better finish than 5-1-5 for pistol bullets.
For rifle, I'd stay with 5-1-5 mix.

[jmoore]

My latest beef is that the Keith type .44 boolits tend to collect the red copper in the shoulders and grooves. The clear remaining portion of the coating on the first application is thin and well distributed, and the mixture is shaken like nobody's business multiple times right up to the point it's introduced to the tub. The third thin coating looks OK, color-wise, except for lots of unseemly build up in areas where it's not doing any good.

The green has no such dramas, but I've far less of it.

[kweidner]

My latest beef is that the Keith type .44 boolits tend to collect the red copper in the shoulders and grooves. The clear remaining portion of the coating on the first application is thin and well distributed, and the mixture is shaken like nobody's business multiple times right up to the point it's introduced to the tub. The third thin coating looks OK, color-wise, except for lots of unseemly build up in areas where it's not doing any good.

The green has no such dramas, but I've far less of it.


Gold will do that too. I think it's the metallics. Black doesn't do it.
Just a little update with 11bhn. In my magnums 357,41,and 44 the alloy Ht combination is marginal at that bhn. I wanted to use them for hunting applications so really didn't want hardball. At full snot loads, the coating is stripped off by the rifling. The cure is to traditional lube too if you are running magnum velocities or move to hardball. I prefer the softer bhn so am lubing on top. One hole accurate in my 44 at 100yds. You MUST match alloy to application to be successful. If it leads with some of the better lubes like Felix, HT won't cure it. Put them together and wow. Just some info for you rifle guys.

[Thompsoncustom]

Gold will do that too. I think it's the metallics. Black doesn't do it.
Just a little update with 11bhn. In my magnums 357,41,and 44 the alloy Ht combination is marginal at that bhn. I wanted to use them for hunting applications so really didn't want hardball. At full snot loads, the coating is stripped off by the rifling. The cure is to traditional lube too if you are running magnum velocities or move to hardball. I prefer the softer bhn so am lubing on top. One hole accurate in my 44 at 100yds. You MUST match alloy to application to be successful. If it leads with some of the better lubes like Felix, HT won't cure it. Put them together and wow. Just some info for you rifle guys.

I've been thinking about trying something like this. The coating seems to fail with fast powders and soft alloys where a normal lube works great. My thought were to try and get the best of both worlds, coat & lube the bullet and see how far I can go down. My plan was to try and push pure lead to 750fps out of my 9mm 33k psi 168gr keith style SWC. Probably only put one thin layer of coating on and my homemade lube.

[hawgfan]

What mix did you use?
So long as there is no bare lead, you should be good to go.
The 5-1-7 is a good all round mix. It gives a better finish than 5-1-5 for pistol bullets.
For rifle, I'd stay with 5-1-5 mix.

I used 5 parts color, 5 parts acetone, 1 part hardener. Like I said they look good and passed all test, I will add 2 more part acetone and see what that does. Thanks

[HI-TEK]

I've been thinking about trying something like this. The coating seems to fail with fast powders and soft alloys where a normal lube works great. My thought were to try and get the best of both worlds, coat & lube the bullet and see how far I can go down. My plan was to try and push pure lead to 750fps out of my 9mm 33k psi 168gr keith style SWC. Probably only put one thin layer of coating on and my homemade lube.

Hi,
I was thinking, that if you are wanting to use coating and another lube, why don't you combine the two as one coating?
If the coating itself is causing drag inside barrel, and requires additional lubrication, you have a choice of using Extreme or 2-Extreme catalysts.
These two, would provide the toughness and with extra slip as well.
This is confirmed during sizing, as sizing becomes hardly any effort to complete when using the Extreme and 2-Extreme catalysts.
If you can, just ask Donnie for small sample of each to play with to test out with your application.
I would really appreciate your results after you have a play.

[Ausglock]

fast powder. slow powder. makes no difference. I have used everything from WST to 2400 and coated works with everything.

Super light loads through to full power teeth rattlers. coating works.

[btroj]

I don't think a fast powder or soft alloy makes a huge difference. The alloy and load need to be balanced, same as any cast load.
The coating isn't going to make up for a too soft for pressure alloy. It also isn't going to degrade a load that already works.

The coating merely replaces the lube, it doesn't change the other parameters regarding cast bullet shooting. Balancing the alloy, diameter, pressure, and pressure curve still matters.

[HI-TEK]

I don't think a fast powder or soft alloy makes a huge difference. The alloy and load need to be balanced, same as any cast load.
The coating isn't going to make up for a too soft for pressure alloy. It also isn't going to degrade a load that already works.

The coating merely replaces the lube, it doesn't change the other parameters regarding cast bullet shooting. Balancing the alloy, diameter, pressure, and pressure curve still matters.


Thanks.
That sums it up well.
I am concerned, that the coating seems to be regarded as solve it all problems, or some think like armour plating..
It is simply a way to separate metals and offer lubrication.
It cannot compensate or repair wrong engineering combinations.
Having said that, I have been working on designing a coating system that has superior hardness toughness and tenacity.. with idea of approaching engineering properties as being provided by Copper jacketing but supplying lubrication.
Preliminary trials indicate that I have achieved a very tough coating system, which may be able to supply much more benefits.
It is in early stages, and initial tests indicate that we are heading in right direction.
Will keep you posted.

[btroj]

Your work on this is to be commended. This coating has changed how we view cast bullets.

I eagerly await your results with the new coating systems. It may well be exactly what rifle shooters are looking for.

[kweidner]

Hi,
I was thinking, that if you are wanting to use coating and another lube, why don't you combine the two as one coating?
If the coating itself is causing drag inside barrel, and requires additional lubrication, you have a choice of using Extreme or 2-Extreme catalysts.
These two, would provide the toughness and with extra slip as well.
This is confirmed during sizing, as sizing becomes hardly any effort to complete when using the Extreme and 2-Extreme catalysts.
If you can, just ask Donnie for small sample of each to play with to test out with your application.
I would really appreciate your results after you have a play.

I am certainly interested in this. I would like to try the Extreme 2 or 3. Do you know if Donnie has any. I know he had a SMALL amount of 2 a couple moths ago.

[kweidner]

I don't think a fast powder or soft alloy makes a huge difference. The alloy and load need to be balanced, same as any cast load.
The coating isn't going to make up for a too soft for pressure alloy. It also isn't going to degrade a load that already works.

The coating merely replaces the lube, it doesn't change the other parameters regarding cast bullet shooting. Balancing the alloy, diameter, pressure, and pressure curve still matters.

I think you will find it does. Been playing with this stuff for MONTHS. I have probably coated 30,000 or better. Try it in a nine running pretty good and you will see you must have a harder alloy than 8-10. I have caught literally hundreds of boolits. I can with confidence say that if you are planning something in the realms higher in pressure than 45ACP, you best go to an 14bhn unless you just like to tinker. My custom magnums are a good example. Lubed with felix, I can run an 8 BHN and get away with it. With coating it has to be 10+ or better for no leading.

[Thompsoncustom]

fast powder. slow powder. makes no difference. I have used everything from WST to 2400 and coated works with everything.

Super light loads through to full power teeth rattlers. coating works.

Maybe I should have put super fast powder? Example one of my favorite loads is a 168gr SWC using 2.7gr of AA#2 which works prefect with normal lube but with the coating it fails everytime, alloy and everything but coating vs lube staying the same. Now my 102gr and 124gr bullets with unique or power pistol the coat works great and leaves the barrel cleaner than normal.

Go to a Faster Powder like bulleyes and the coating leads like crazy but I can't say the lube is any better with bulleyes as I haven't tried it yet.

That got me wondering why does the lube work with AA#2 and the coating doesn't? Well I don't know but what would happen if I put one light layer of coating on and then lubed the bullets, again I don't know but I'll find out.

I'd like to see results of someone running the fastest powder's like N310 and see how the coating and lube compares.

[hawgfan]

I coated a few today, just wondering if this is what they are suppose to look like. I also tried coating 3 times to get them a little darker, but I really can't tell a difference.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii9/hawgfan0705/IMG_3491_zps937e8db1.jpg (http://s260.photobucket.com/user/hawgfan0705/media/IMG_3491_zps937e8db1.jpg.html)

[HI-TEK]

I coated a few today, just wondering if this is what they are suppose to look like. I also tried coating 3 times to get them a little darker, but I really can't tell a difference.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii9/hawgfan0705/IMG_3491_zps937e8db1.jpg (http://s260.photobucket.com/user/hawgfan0705/media/IMG_3491_zps937e8db1.jpg.html)

What coating did you use?
If it is Blue/Green then it is OK.
They will not go darker with more coats.

[Ausglock]

Yep. that is it. You done good.
I find 5-1-7 coated twice is all that's needed.

[hawgfan]

What coating did you use?
If it is Blue/Green then it is OK.
They will not go darker with more coats.

Yes it was the blue/green. I guess I meant to say, thicker instead of darker. I just wanted to make sure they were coated good, so I had no chance of leading.

[hawgfan]

Yep. that is it. You done good.
I find 5-1-7 coated twice is all that's needed.

I tried the 5-1-7 today, the only difference I could see is the drying time, but I am all for making the product go farther. Thanks for all your help.

[Shotgundrums]

I've had a small amount of green solution in my fridge for about a week now-maybe good for two coats of 9s or 38s. Anyone think it'll still work or should I dump it? Before use I was gonna add a couple parts acetone for any lost solvency.
Also, is the green limited to low velocity loads? I have the standard catalyst. I'm wanting to load 44 and 357 "magnum" revolver loads...14.5gr+ for 357 and 21gr for 44 mag alliant 2400.
357- 6 inch barrel, 44- 7.5 inch barrel

[kweidner]

BHN measured before or after coating?

after. Wish there was a way to water drop and maintain bhn. It would cure all my issues. Tried on the sas soft for linotype but no takers.

[hawgfan]

I've had a small amount of green solution in my fridge for about a week now-maybe good for two coats of 9s or 38s. Anyone think it'll still work or should I dump it? Before use I was gonna add a couple parts acetone for any lost solvency.
Also, is the green limited to low velocity loads? I have the standard catalyst. I'm wanting to load 44 and 357 "magnum" revolver loads...14.5gr+ for 357 and 21gr for 44 mag alliant 2400.
357- 6 inch barrel, 44- 7.5 inch barrel

I made up a pretty good size batch and I have been using it for 3 days now. I haven't seen any side effects yet.

[jmoore]

Gold will do that too. I think it's the metallics. Black doesn't do it.
Just a little update with 11bhn. In my magnums 357,41,and 44 the alloy Ht combination is marginal at that bhn. I wanted to use them for hunting applications so really didn't want hardball. At full snot loads, the coating is stripped off by the rifling. The cure is to traditional lube too if you are running magnum velocities or move to hardball. I prefer the softer bhn so am lubing on top. One hole accurate in my 44 at 100yds. You MUST match alloy to application to be successful. If it leads with some of the better lubes like Felix, HT won't cure it. Put them together and wow. Just some info for you rifle guys.


I think I sorted my problem: Too much acetone allows the metallics to fall out of suspension easily. Backed off the solvent last batch and the coverage was much more uniform.

Regarding green Hi Tek and full house .44 Mag loads, specifically 2400: No dramas! First thing i tried and the results were excellent. It's the light loads that tend to give me fits.

[Ausglock]

I have had the green up to 1900fps with no worries.
I have mixed coating sitting here for over a month on the bench and I'm still using it with no side effects.
Now that we are heading into summer, I'll store the colour resin and catalyst in the fridge. But the mixed will stay on the bench. I mix 130mls at a time and this can take a month to use.


I've had a small amount of green solution in my fridge for about a week now-maybe good for two coats of 9s or 38s. Anyone think it'll still work or should I dump it? Before use I was gonna add a couple parts acetone for any lost solvency.
Also, is the green limited to low velocity loads? I have the standard catalyst. I'm wanting to load 44 and 357 "magnum" revolver loads...14.5gr+ for 357 and 21gr for 44 mag alliant 2400.
357- 6 inch barrel, 44- 7.5 inch barrel

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

I am certainly interested in this. I would like to try the Extreme 2 or 3. Do you know if Donnie has any. I know he had a SMALL amount of 2 a couple moths ago.


I have a fair amount of the Extreme 2 due to arrive in a couple of weeks.
3-extreme will have to be on the next order. It wasn't available when I originally placed my order.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

I've had a small amount of green solution in my fridge for about a week now-maybe good for two coats of 9s or 38s. Anyone think it'll still work or should I dump it? Before use I was gonna add a couple parts acetone for any lost solvency.
Also, is the green limited to low velocity loads? I have the standard catalyst. I'm wanting to load 44 and 357 "magnum" revolver loads...14.5gr+ for 357 and 21gr for 44 mag alliant 2400.
357- 6 inch barrel, 44- 7.5 inch barrel

It is still good, just shake very well and you'll be good to go.
I have purposely let some mixed formula set out for 3 weeks to see what would happen to it and it worked just as well as newly mixed.

[Ausglock]

the 2 and 3 extreme Catalyst are over rated. I now mainly use the 1 extreme Catalyst. The 2 and 3 work ok with the Red copper, Gold and green, But I had issues with the 3 cat and black.

[Shotgundrums]

the 2 and 3 extreme Catalyst are over rated. I now mainly use the 1 extreme Catalyst. The 2 and 3 work ok with the Red copper, Gold and green, But I had issues with the 3 cat and black.
I'm guessing the extreme catalyst can be used either coating? What does it do? I mean, I've heard of it making bullets more "slippery?" Fill me in please lol

[Gateway Bullets]

I do not have any of the extreme catalyst in stock. However, after speaking with Joe, he stated the extreme catalyst should be used on the final coat of the projectiles as it aids in ease of sizing. He said it should cut the friction of sizing by about 1/2

If anybody needs any coating let me know. I have the red copper, metallic gold, and black in stock.

[Ausglock]

I'm guessing the extreme catalyst can be used either coating? What does it do? I mean, I've heard of it making bullets more "slippery?" Fill me in please lol

The extreme catalyst works exactly the same as normal catalyst. It just makes the sizing easier, even with the red/copper and gold. force needed is 1/2 and the base of the bullets do not get deformed by the punch rod as much.

The 2 extreme works fine. I just don't use it. The 3 extreme works fine with metallic coatings.

[Love Life]

Put your coated bullets in a tub, hit em with a squirt of Hornady one shot, tumble, dump, size, foregt about them.

[HI-TEK]

Put your coated bullets in a tub, hit em with a squirt of Hornady one shot, tumble, dump, size, foregt about them.

How are you doing Love life
Just wondering what the Hornady One shot is?
If you are coating already, I am wondering why you would consider using another step to coat with the Hornady material?
The whole idea of various Catalysts, is, to allow users to make their own coated projectile more slippery if it was required.
The 3-Extreme catalyst, uses the benefits of the Extreme and the 2-Extreme to obtain overall better results.
Unfortunately, both 2-Extreme and 3-Extreme does not work with the Black coating, but seems to be OK with the others.
The Extreme works with all coatings, but generally, it should only be required when drastically sizing down large diameters, or with using very hard alloys and this greatly helps sizing process.
Donnie has a product called 5000/IPA. this is an after coating dry film lube that is applied very sparingly, which leaves clean dry, ghostly dry film, that makes sizing very easy.
It is used on swaged/extruded alloys a a dry lube.
Just ask Donnie for small sample to try.

[Love Life]

Hornady one shot is the worse case lube ever made and sold to the masses. It is great for sizing coated bullets though.

My 45 acp boolits cast at .453. After coating twice they are anywhere from .4545 to .4555 depending on how thick they got coated. I size them in a .452 push through die. It makes them much eaiser to size. While I believe the Hornady one shot does nothing to aid in leading/non-leading, it makes sizing easier and to date I have notice no issues with it bothering powder charges. It is a vary light coat because I'll doa light spritz on a hundred or so bullets and tumble them.

My 38 special boolits cast fat at .360, add the coating and squeezing them down can be problematic. People say properly cured coating shouldn't come off during sizing, but when sizing down that much it does. They all pass the smash/swipe test and don't lead.

I've thought about using one of the extreme catalysts, but I want to use up what I have right now. Of course it may take me until 2030.

[Love Life]

Oh, and for the record. I have a bottle of 5-1-10 I mixed about 4 weeks ago. It sits in my uninsulated garage where it is hot during the day and rather cool at night. I coated some bullets last night and it worked just fine. The color and catalyst also stay in the garage and I have seen no negative issues with either as well.

[Ausglock]

I was using Hornady Oneshot until the extreme catalyst came along. Oneshot does work when making 357Sig brass from 40S&W brass.

[Love Life]

Machine gun fired 308 brass slanders One shot's mother.

[prickett]

Hey Donnie,

How do the extreme catalysts rate in order of slickness? Is extreme-3 the slickest with extreme the least slick or is it reversed?

Is there a price difference between the extreme catalysts and the regular one? If so, how much?

Finally, how much is 5000/IPA?

Thanks

[leadman]

I found when testing the 30-06 and 223 boolits I used heat treated linotype that measured 35 BHN before coating. I used 2 coats with extreme 2 cat and Red Copper while watching the temperature gauge closely. When the temperature read 375 degrees I turned the oven down to about 325 degrees and let the timer turn it off at 10 minutes. The after coating BHN was 32 BHN.
I did hit 3,465fps with the 45gr 223 boolit and 2,500 fps with the 200gr 30-06. No leading at all.
I have been wanting to try this with water quenched alloy but my Dakota was calling me to do some work on it, plus new treads. Time is running short to my elk hunt in early Oct. so have to get the guns ready for the trip.

I found with the E2 cat that the boolits tend to stick to each other a little easier then with the standard cat. Just keep them seperated a little better.

I did take a Lee 6 cavity 38-150-RN mold to a machinist today to have the lube grooves cut out. This is a frustrating mold to use as the boolit hang on the lube grooves badly, sometimes the base cracks. Anyone up for some used loob grooves?

[HI-TEK]

I found when testing the 30-06 and 223 boolits I used heat treated linotype that measured 35 BHN before coating. I used 2 coats with extreme 2 cat and Red Copper while watching the temperature gauge closely. When the temperature read 375 degrees I turned the oven down to about 325 degrees and let the timer turn it off at 10 minutes. The after coating BHN was 32 BHN.
I did hit 3,465fps with the 45gr 223 boolit and 2,500 fps with the 200gr 30-06. No leading at all.
I have been wanting to try this with water quenched alloy but my Dakota was calling me to do some work on it, plus new treads. Time is running short to my elk hunt in early Oct. so have to get the guns ready for the trip.

I found with the E2 cat that the boolits tend to stick to each other a little easier then with the standard cat. Just keep them seperated a little better.

Thanks Leadman,
That is excellent results.
You seem to have the coating process to an art.
All it has to be realised is, that coating & alloy, especially with first coat, has to reach the minimum 180-190C temperature, and stay at that temperature for at least 2-3 minutes thereafter.
That ensures correct cure and good bonding between coating and alloy.
As you said, that once your oven reached required temperature, it would have taken some time for the oven to cool down to your new set temperature of 325 degrees F.
That way you achieved best result for curing, and also maintaining your hardness as well.
Well done. Hope you get many years of good results.

[Shotgundrums]

I've heard of guys using a rouge on an as-cast bullet, drill a tiny hole in the base, put it in the mold and close it, and turning it to smooth out small burrs. (Shrug)

[HI-TEK]

Hey Donnie,

How do the extreme catalysts rate in order of slickness? Is extreme-3 the slickest with extreme the least slick or is it reversed?

Is there a price difference between the extreme catalysts and the regular one? If so, how much?

Finally, how much is 5000/IPA?

Thanks

Hi,
The coated projectiles that were tested with speed, using the various catalysts with same coating, showed no significant difference between all catalysts.
So it can be deduced that aside from supplying easier sizing ability, there were no negative results when shooting them.
However, both the Extreme and 2-Extreme had better grouping accuracy on target .

We have not tested 3-Extreme, but can be expected, that this one should also provide similar results to Extreme and 2-Extreme.
The 3-Extreme catalyst, is a hybrid of Extreme and 2-Extreme.
The 3-Extreme is new concept.

Both the 2-Extreme and 3-Extreme catalysts work with all coatings except the black.
Both do not work with Black coating, but in total contrast, the Extreme Catalyst works with all coatings including Black.
Extreme, as well as 2 & 3 variety, all significantly reduce sizing pressure required.

[Ausglock]

I did a bit of catalyst testing tonight. I have red copper with normal cat, ext cat, 2 ext cat and 3 ext cat.
The normal cat was hard to size.
ext cat was easy.
2 ext cat was easy
3 ext cat was easy

Blue green with the same cats as above.
normal cat was easy
ext cat was easy
2 ext cat was easy
3 ext cat was easy.

The metallics tend to need the extreme catalysts to size easy.
the non metallics don't seem to care.

The Gold is the same as the red copper...likes the extreme cats.
Looking forward to testing the new Black with the experimental Superhard Resin 1.

[Shotgundrums]

I did a bit of catalyst testing tonight. I have red copper with normal cat, ext cat, 2 ext cat and 3 ext cat.
The normal cat was hard to size.
ext cat was easy.
2 ext cat was easy
3 ext cat was easy

Blue green with the same cats as above.
normal cat was easy
ext cat was easy
2 ext cat was easy
3 ext cat was easy.

The metallics tend to need the extreme catalysts to size easy.
the non metallics don't seem to care.

The Gold is the same as the red copper...likes the extreme cats.
Looking forward to testing the new Black with the experimental Superhard Resin 1.
These metallics you speak of, are they the suspended proprietary "lube?" I'm guessing the green doesn't have that and just acts as a candy shell jacket...(shrug)

[Ausglock]

nope. they all have the proprietry lube. the metallics have the extra in them to provide more heat resistance.

[Shotgundrums]

Interesting. When's the red coming out?

[Ausglock]

Interesting. When's the Dog-Dick red coming out?

Only HI-TEK can answer that...

[HI-TEK]

Interesting. When's the Dog-Dick red coming out?

Hi,
Thanks for your interest.
I suppose the only way I can answer this is after I know your location.
Currently, that colour was in testing stage. However, due to demand and success with using it locally, I have obtained some more materials to make that coloured coating.
However, it is in Australia at this stage.
Unless we get interest for it from US, it may be a while before it gets there.
Hope it answered your question.

[Shotgundrums]

Hi,
Thanks for your interest.
I suppose the only way I can answer this is after I know your location.
Currently, that colour was in testing stage. However, due to demand and success with using it locally, I have obtained some more materials to make that coloured coating.
However, it is in Australia at this stage.
Unless we get interest for it from US, it may be a while before it gets there.
Hope it answered your question.

Yeah... I'm in the US as well. I can't understand why US shooters are still so new to this. Or why we're so late to catch on. Lower smoke, no waxy lubes. No TOO hard to figure out lol. What's not to like....

[Gateway Bullets]

Yeah... I'm in the US as well. I can't understand why US shooters are still so new to this. Or why we're so late to catch on. Lower smoke, no waxy lubes. No TOO hard to figure out lol. What's not to like....


I even offered to sponsor my nieces shooting team with free bullets and brass and the shooting coach said no because he didn't believe in the product! What ya gonna do?

[Shotgundrums]

What a douche

[Gateway Bullets]

I'm going to try again in a few months.

[HI-TEK]

Yeah... I'm in the US as well. I can't understand why US shooters are still so new to this. Or why we're so late to catch on. Lower smoke, no waxy lubes. No TOO hard to figure out lol. What's not to like....

I agree to your ideas, thanks for kind thoughts.

For some time, when the AUS dollar was very weak, our local manufacturers started to export coated projectiles, but did not tell you guys what coating they were using or where it was made.
As AUS dollar became stronger in value, selling into US became very costly so all sales stopped.

Many years ago I tried to provide products to various manufacturers in the US, who all did not want it at all.

The word of mouth, (should I say blogs), from shooters on this site, started the ball rolling by telling members about the coatings.
Suddenly, an interest was developed, and we had many enquiries for product.
It all went from there.

Funny thing is, that many competition shooters who attended local competitions, took back coated projectiles over many years, but none followed up with trying to get the coating to the US.
So, the folk in Australia, enjoyed benefits for nearly 21 years before it became interesting topic in US.

I tried, but as the missus says, an overnight success taking 20 or more years.
What can you do indeed....lol lol

[Gateway Bullets]

Snake oil and monkey snot I tell ya!

[HI-TEK]

Snake oil and monkey snot I tell ya!

But,...... it is Aussie Snake Oil and Monkey Snot...... (actually, Secret....it is drop bear poo..... mixed with Man of War Jelly fish slime....) lol lol

[Shotgundrums]

But,...... it is Aussie Snake Oil and Monkey Snot...... (actually, Secret....it is drop bear poo..... mixed with Man of War Jelly fish slime....) lol lol
Well, as long as gateway and Donnie carry this I'm buyin'
Just keep those boats fueled

[Gateway Bullets]

Well, as long as gateway and Donnie carry this I'm buyin'
Just keep those boats fueled

I'm glad Joe took out the Wallaby wankings and added the red! Lol

[Ausglock]

I even offered to sponsor my nieces shooting team with free bullets and brass and the shooting coach said no because he didn't believe in the product! What ya gonna do?

Some people really need to wake up to the fact that not everything has to be jacketed or grease lubed....

[Ausglock]

I'm glad Joe took out the Wallaby wankings and added the red! Lol

Ummm.. you have to stop calling it " red" I have registered that as a trade mark, and now you lot have to pay me $50 each time you mention it. Hahahahaha.... I'm gunna be rich........

HI-TEK is trying a new blue. It is based on the poison of the blue ringed Octypus... You pizz it off and it turns blue :-)

[Spanners]

When we going to see what red looks like ?? Bullets that is.. :)

[leadman]

popper, the results that I posted awhile back with powder charges and velocities were E2 cat. I remember the 223 was like 1.8" at 100 yards. Not up to the .5" it does with jacketed but it is a good start. If I wasn't so old and tired I could get more testing done, and then there are those that want boolits to shoot.
I was going to go to the range this week but that is off, just as well since next week we are supposed to be under 100 degrees for a high.
Today I got a package from Donnie that should have more Red Copper and also some Gold in it. Got busy and forgot to open it so it will be like Christmas in the morning.

[Shotgundrums]

So is the extreme catalyst series a banana peel extract to make it so slippery?

[Shotgundrums]

So is the extreme catalyst series a banana peel extract to make it so slippery?

[Ausglock]

Ha The extreme Catalyst is bottled politician's promises mixed with Used car salesman's sincerity.

There is nothing more slippery in the known world...

[Shotgundrums]

Dianne Feinstein's Vag.
Oh, wait... That mess is prob dry as hell and hangs like wizard sleeve. Ha!

[Shotgundrums]

Probably what the standard catalyst is :)

[Gateway Bullets]

Ha The extreme Catalyst is bottled politician's promises mixed with Used car salesman's sincerity.

There is nothing more slippery in the known world...

Ain't that the truth!

[Ausglock]

OK.. you asked for it. Here it is...

Red.
Enjoy.
82271

[Shotgundrums]

Man those look a little like my epoxied ptfe bullets
82275

[Ausglock]

yeah. only mine are the real deal. coating designed for bullet coating. not garden furniture.

[Spanners]

That's the colour we need! Sweet!

[Ausglock]

That's the colour we need! Sweet!

There is another red. Fire engine red.
82281

[Shotgundrums]

Get that **** over here!! I wannit! :)

[Shotgundrums]

Hi Tek better use the name too. Only it'll probably have to be made an acronym DDR. And when we do see it on the shelves I'll giggle every time, cause only a few will know. Lol

[Love Life]

When do I get the fire engine red? I want it now! I believe I'll file a complaint in the complaint department...

I also wonder why this did not pick up here earlier. No smoke, no greasy buildup on the gun or hands, no lube build up in the dies, no having to clean the loaded rouonds after loading. This stuff is the bomb diggity.

Who knows though. Many people are retarded in their knowledge of cast bullets and believe cast bullets will wear out a barrel faster than jacketed.

The coating works, and is very easy to use after you screw up the 1st 2 batches or so.

I had no leading with my traditionally lubed bullets, but I had the mess from the lube. Now all you need is an el cheapo lee sizing die, a 30 dollar oven, and a coffee tub to coat your bullets. Store forever without the lube drying or sticking to other bullets and stuff.

Keep this stuff coming to the states, but please keep the drop bears over there. I heard they will eat your face, and I like my face.

[popper]

Yea, I like that red. Cast 10# of 30/30 PB & GC this morning, going to try lite loads with the dark green again, just for plinking, PB & sans checks. The 165 308 seemed to reasonable @ 50 in the 336. Got a tripod & chrony now so I can really do reasonable testing.

[Gateway Bullets]

Get that **** over here!! I wannit! :)


Hey Shotgundrums, I may have some here in the next few weeks.

[Shotgundrums]

Awesome sir! Which one? Put me on the reserve list.
Thx!! Josh

[Shotgundrums]

Trevor how about smurf-d*ckhead blue? Blue bullets would look great.

[Stephen Cohen]

It is funny how Americans didn't pick up on this coating quicker, but we in this country were slow to pick up on many other aspects of casting. There are still guys over here who are living in the dark ages. In the last two years I know many who have learned so much from this site.

[Gateway Bullets]

Trevor how about smurf-d*ckhead blue? Blue bullets would look great.

Joe was attempting to make a blue for me for the past 6 months and he could never get it stable. It kept turning green. The last sample pic he sent was a fairly stable greenish blue if I remember.

So I'm thinking blue is not going to happen anytime in the near future.

[dverna]

It is funny how Americans didn't pick up on this coating quicker, but we in this country were slow to pick up on many other aspects of casting. There are still guys over here who are living in the dark ages. In the last two years I know many who have learned so much from this site.

SC

Most of the people who have "picked up" on Hi-Tek are pistol shooters who do not have Stars. I can see why it is attractive for them. A properly adjusted Star does not "goop up" the bullet with excessive lube and we can lube and size over 1000 bullets/hr. Using a regular sizer or pan lubing is slower and there is "goop" to deal with. There is also a benefit for the few who have bullet feeders - but they are very few. For me, there is no driver to initiate a change from the Star. Making trays, doing the mixing, shake and bake (sometimes more than once) and still having to size does not make sense when I can run the Star. And the Star takes up less one square foot of bench space. If I did not have the Star, I would have jumped on board too - at least to try it.

So far, Hi-Tek has not equaled the performance of lubes in rifle bullets. I had high hopes it would prove out but at this point it seems PC has more potential. I have followed the work that popper has done and it looks like he has abandoned trying to get full power loads from his .30/30 using Hi-Tek. I am not saying one mans experience is all I am basing this on - but he has done (or at least posted) the most on rifles.

Still, I keep reading these threads as I realize there is a lot of work still being done and a breakthrough could happen that changes the game. Keeping the fingers crossed!!

Don Verna

[Ausglock]

Yep. The blue is a real pain. I tried a few different blues last night, just to re-visit them and check my previous testing results. The Blue ARG100 went green with both the normal and the extreme cat. So did the blue PLSL666. The Blue 6001/R is getting anther run today. I know there is a blue that went really dark, almost black. this is the one Hi-tek is going to mix with the experimental resin 1 to see if it will stay lighter blue.

The reds are very temp and time sensitive. if they are baked at my normal settings of 200deg C for 10 minutes, the colour will fail the wipe test. but if they are baked at 200deg C for 12 minutes, they pass with no problems.

Normal and extreme catalysts work fine. 2 and 3 extreme do not.

Hi-tek sent a new red. Red BB. I mixed and coated with it last night. It is a very dark maroon. similar to Rose Red AE, but darker.
It also needed longer time in the oven, just like the other reds.

The blue green with experimental resin 1 stayed a bright light green (Zombie Stoppers) after 2 coats. This boys and girls is a keeper... I'm loading a few 100 to fire off Sunday.

I gotta build a bigger shed. I'm running out of room to store all the Hi-tek test sample coatings. There are about 28 so far.



Joe was attempting to make a blue for me for the past 6 months and he could never get it stable. It kept turning green. The last sample pic he sent was a fairly stable greenish blue if I remember.

So I'm thinking blue is not going to happen anytime in the near future.

[Ausglock]

Don.

The commercial casters here have been making 30/30 cast and coated bullets for years. No gas checks. No problems. No leading. No accuracy problems. The pigs, goats, roos, dogs, foxes, rabbits, dingos, camels, donkeys and crocs drop like flies.
I have used them in my mate's 30/30 marlin when we go out west chasing pigs and it is bloody fantastic.
Coating may not be for everyone, but everyone should use what works for them.
I'm a "cup 1/2 full" person. not a "cup 1/2 empty" person.

[Love Life]

SC

Most of the people who have "picked up" on Hi-Tek are pistol shooters who do not have Stars.

Not so. I owned a Star for awhile. It was the most finnicky waste of my hard earned dollars that I've had to deal with in years. I'm a pretty savvy fellow, and I can read the instructions.

I set everything up right, and it would run like a top. The, randomly, it would start lubing noses...

I checked everything. Everythings was as it should be. It was just a pain in the butt.

I was incredibly happy the day I off loaded that thing and bought a Lyman 4500 and a Lyman 45.

Star sizers can suck it.

Now I wish I had the Star back (with no lube) to size my coated bullets. The Lee dies are fast, but the star would be faster.

Still, the benefit gained in my pistols (cleanliness) is soooooo much better than traditional lubes.

[HI-TEK]

SC

Most of the people who have "picked up" on Hi-Tek are pistol shooters who do not have Stars. I can see why it is attractive for them. A properly adjusted Star does not "goop up" the bullet with excessive lube and we can lube and size over 1000 bullets/hr. Using a regular sizer or pan lubing is slower and there is "goop" to deal with. There is also a benefit for the few who have bullet feeders - but they are very few. For me, there is no driver to initiate a change from the Star. Making trays, doing the mixing, shake and bake (sometimes more than once) and still having to size does not make sense when I can run the Star. And the Star takes up less one square foot of bench space. If I did not have the Star, I would have jumped on board too - at least to try it.

So far, Hi-Tek has not equaled the performance of lubes in rifle bullets. I had high hopes it would prove out but at this point it seems PC has more potential. I have followed the work that popper has done and it looks like he has abandoned trying to get full power loads from his .30/30 using Hi-Tek. I am not saying one mans experience is all I am basing this on - but he has done (or at least posted) the most on rifles.

Still, I keep reading these threads as I realize there is a lot of work still being done and a breakthrough could happen that changes the game. Keeping the fingers crossed!!

Don Verna

Hi,
Just wanted to ask if posting on page 63 with rifle ammo using Hi-Tek, was of relevance to what you are thinking?
Many are of the opinion that the coating was not suitable for high speeds.
It appears, that results shown on page 63 seem to add some credibility of what can be achieved.

As advised many times previously, the coating has been used on Jacketed ammo to reduce or prevent Copper fouling, and was used with great success.
This was with rifle ammo, so I dont really know all end use applications, but from knowing properties of the coating, there is no reason why it should not work.
It may be a simple thing to match alloy, powder to ammo and get right results.
I found, that over they years, many who are successful in using the coatings, dont publish their results.
It is most disappointing as many would like to benefit from wisdom gained from others.

[btroj]

I own a Star but will keep messing with the coating. Why? Because the concept intrigues me. The idea of no mess on the finger, dies, or gun?

[gunoil]

Ditto, btroj clean is great.

i have 2 star sizers, luv-em. I just want a mrbulletfeeder.biz collator some day. My star will be run by pedal power soon as i can get some laithe work and my O/A tanks full. Yea, pedal powered, hehehe.

Nice lil' mess of 500 of my custom 380/108gr.. No lube ring.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6fisdoaufw41ozw/2013-09-20%2021.14.30.jpg

[Thompsoncustom]

Nice bullets sir, I liked the idea of your mold so much I sent my 6 cavity off to be machined will post some pics when it gets back.

[popper]

So far, Hi-Tek has not equaled the performance of lubes in rifle bullets. I had high hopes it would prove out but at this point it seems PC has more potential. I have followed the work that popper has done and it looks like he has abandoned trying to get full power loads from his .30/30 using Hi-Tek. I am not saying one mans experience is all I am basing this on - but he has done (or at least posted) the most on rifles.
I tried full power and plinker loads with H-T using low antimony (~50/50 COWW/Pure) and didn't get the accuracy. Leadman used lino and got close. We both HT to get hardness to take pressure, H-T cooking seems to kill the BHN. I'm starting to think that the gunk I got in the bbl was actually gas cut coating. From pressure curves from Larry G, I was running close to 35k psi. It works OK with PC. The 308 is close to 45K psi and works good with PC.

[btroj]

Popper, did you ever try some traditional lube on a coated bullet?

[Shotgundrums]

Range report:
Hi-Tek Dark Green
9mm 147gr 100rnds accurate-no leading
45 Auto 200gr 100rnds accurate-no leading
357 Magnum 100 rnds accurate-lead streaking
at the last 1-2in of 6 in barrel.
BUT...it brushed out easily with a
dry bronze bush. So.....
What y'all think?

[Gateway Bullets]

I think it's great.

[dverna]

Hi,
Just wanted to ask if posting on page 63 with rifle ammo using Hi-Tek, was of relevance to what you are thinking?
Many are of the opinion that the coating was not suitable for high speeds.
It appears, that results shown on page 63 seem to add some credibility of what can be achieved.

As advised many times previously, the coating has been used on Jacketed ammo to reduce or prevent Copper fouling, and was used with great success.
This was with rifle ammo, so I dont really know all end use applications, but from knowing properties of the coating, there is no reason why it should not work.
It may be a simple thing to match alloy, powder to ammo and get right results.
I found, that over they years, many who are successful in using the coatings, dont publish their results.
It is most disappointing as many would like to benefit from wisdom gained from others.

Hi-Tek,

Yes, I saw the post and the fact that the coating does not lead at high velocity is very promising. But I believe Leadman had mediocre accuracy. That is a deal killer for me. But I hold out hope. As a target shooter I am not limited to soft alloys or alloys that lose hardness (as popper experienced) with the heat treating. So yes, there is a lot of promise and I hope someone finds the "sweet spot". I will use straight Linotype if the accuracy is there. But many casters, will want to use WW or range lead. It may be difficult to satisfy both camps.

I have "gripped" about this in other threads. A bullet that does not lead is great, but it must be accurate. And one "wallet" group does not prove accuracy.

I believe there is a good sized market for a coating that provides consistent 1.5 moa accuracy at rifle velocities - even if the bullets must be made from Linotype. Accuracy and high velocities are achievable with paper patched bullets but they are a pain to produce - at least if you need a bazillion of them to feed an AR. More bullets are shot at steel/paper than at game. In fact, if I was a hunter, I would paper patch the few 100 I need for my .30 calibers and get velocity, accuracy and expansion.

In re-reading my post I see how it can be viewed as being critical (and in a way it is) but it is not a condemnation of coated bullets. Many people are going to be well served with them. It is another way to do things and there is definitely a place for it. Just as there are scores of lubes and everyone thinks the one they use is the best for them. I suppose I reacted to Americans as being viewed as somewhat slow because we have not jumped on the bandwagon as our friends downunder have.

I will take a small dig at our friends downunder. You said, "I found, that over the years, many who are successful in using the coatings, don't publish their results." Well that is just plain WRONG!!!!. After all, we are not shooting to win pickup trucks so what is the big secret??? I guess Americans are more giving in spite of being slow. LOL

I see myself as a possible convert. If I thought coated bullets did not hold promise, I would not follow these threads. Traditional lubes work OK for my pistol bullets and I like the productivity I get. Now, if/when there is a breakthrough with accuracy at high velocities ........ shake and bake - here I come!

Like I commented earlier - this is not that "simple". We are near 70 pages, and we have not found an accurate rifle load - yet.

I will be less critical in the future. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Don Verna

[popper]

Btroj yes, close to the same loads in30/30 & 308 with veggie oil, worked fine good accuracy and no leading, just slightly messy.

[Shotgundrums]

After further inspection, there was minor leading in my 9 & 45 barrels. But, it wasn't hard to remove. A light soaking, a brushing, tight jag, clean. Leading is definitely far less than with traditional cast/lubed booooolits.

[HI-TEK]

Hi-Tek,

Yes, I saw the post and the fact that the coating does not lead at high velocity is very promising. But I believe Leadman had mediocre accuracy. That is a deal killer for me. But I hold out hope. As a target shooter I am not limited to soft alloys or alloys that lose hardness (as popper experienced) with the heat treating. So yes, there is a lot of promise and I hope someone finds the "sweet spot". I will use straight Linotype if the accuracy is there. But many casters, will want to use WW or range lead. It may be difficult to satisfy both camps.

I have "gripped" about this in other threads. A bullet that does not lead is great, but it must be accurate. And one "wallet" group does not prove accuracy.

I believe there is a good sized market for a coating that provides consistent 1.5 moa accuracy at rifle velocities - even if the bullets must be made from Linotype. Accuracy and high velocities are achievable with paper patched bullets but they are a pain to produce - at least if you need a bazillion of them to feed an AR. More bullets are shot at steel/paper than at game. In fact, if I was a hunter, I would paper patch the few 100 I need for my .30 calibers and get velocity, accuracy and expansion.

In re-reading my post I see how it can be viewed as being critical (and in a way it is) but it is not a condemnation of coated bullets. Many people are going to be well served with them. It is another way to do things and there is definitely a place for it. Just as there are scores of lubes and everyone thinks the one they use is the best for them. I suppose I reacted to Americans as being viewed as somewhat slow because we have not jumped on the bandwagon as our friends downunder have.

I will take a small dig at our friends downunder. You said, "I found, that over the years, many who are successful in using the coatings, don't publish their results." Well that is just plain WRONG!!!!. After all, we are not shooting to win pickup trucks so what is the big secret??? I guess Americans are more giving in spite of being slow. LOL

I see myself as a possible convert. If I thought coated bullets did not hold promise, I would not follow these threads. Traditional lubes work OK for my pistol bullets and I like the productivity I get. Now, if/when there is a breakthrough with accuracy at high velocities ........ shake and bake - here I come!

Like I commented earlier - this is not that "simple". We are near 70 pages, and we have not found an accurate rifle load - yet.

I will be less critical in the future. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Don Verna

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas. It is much appreciated.
With your reference to our friends down under, I should really add some explanations.
The main reason I dont have much information, is that I generally do not deal with shooters.
I supply materials to manufacturers, who directly deal with their customers.
So, I dont get to have any discussions with individual use applications.
Manufacturers, are reluctant to share information to guard their market and processes.
The only time I seem to get contacted, when something goes wrong, and then I have to try and sort it out. It is very rare, that if all is going well, that people contact me directly.
In the past, it has been a battle to get any reliable and accurate data that can be posted.
Things are changing, as I have several who are keen to push the coatings to the limit, to determine what can be achieved, and they are sending back reports both good and bad.
I possibly may have new products that approach hardness of Copper on jacketed ammo.
They are being tested at this stage. I am hoping, that they may be more suitable for a larger range of applications and especially for rifle ammo.
With first trials, the coated projectiles when being sized, the guy nearly broke his sizer trying the push through the coated alloy. The beveled base became flat base.
Interestingly, the coating smashed fine, did not come off with solvent, and was in perfect condition after sizing.
This was done with standard Catalyst. After using the 5000/IPA, it slid through without any problems.
This coating is probably the toughest I have made, and I still have two more to test.
Lots of trials will be required which will take some time.
Results will be posted.
Thanks for your continued interest.

[Ausglock]

With first trials, the coated projectiles when being sized, the guy nearly broke his sizer trying the push through the coated alloy. The beveled base became flat base.
Interestingly, the coating smashed fine, did not come off with solvent, and was in perfect condition after sizing.
This was done with standard Catalyst. After using the 5000/IPA, it slid through without any problems.
This coating is probably the toughest I have made, and I still have two more to test.
Lots of trials will be required which will take some time.
Results will be posted.
Thanks for your continued interest.

Hell yeah. I'll be billing you for the new sizer handle. But my upper body sure got a workout.....

[Stephen Cohen]

I would like to make it clear to dverna and anyone else who was offended by my post. I in no way consider Americans slow witted, its just that given the gun industry you guys have I would have thought this coating would have been in America years ago. History has shown us , that America is quick to pick up on an idea and run with it till it is perfected in all aspects. I do believe with the feedback and experimentation that is going on now, we will see all problems and short coming with this coating ironed out. In my post I was in fact trying to convey how this site has helped us over here. At the risk of offending Australians, we have been slow to pick up on many great ideas. As I said this site has been great for spreading all new ideas and methods so we can all find what fits our shooting style. I offer my apologies for any offence taken, it was not my intent I assure you.