simple Hi-Tek coating

[leadman]

jmoore, the 41 is a 2 cavity mold and it casts very easily good boolits. Lee changed the design of the 2 cavities for the better.There is still the issue of the sprue plates gouging the top of the mold but just take it off before opening the mold and deburr the leading edge. Some of the sprue plate pivot screws come loose also but if you install it with high strength loctite and let it cure overnight it will be ok.

[jmoore]

jmoore, the 41 is a 2 cavity mold and it casts very easily good boolits. Lee changed the design of the 2 cavities for the better.There is still the issue of the sprue plates gouging the top of the mold but just take it off before opening the mold and deburr the leading edge. Some of the sprue plate pivot screws come loose also but if you install it with high strength loctite and let it cure overnight it will be ok.

I could borrow kdiver58's Lee .41 mould. But a new Lyman is on the way. He already moved to a Saeco mould, but I'm not remembering just why.

Looking at some of the red copper coatings, it seems my latest batch are still a bit underwhelming. Or load up a few and see what happens? Only doing one regular range trip per week anymore, so the delays add up. Need to start thinking of working up a coated hunting load already. The 2400 load looks good in the scoped revolver, but I'm done with magnifying optics for field use. Irons or reddots. Which means it'll be likely one of the small throated guns. Near on 0.004" difference. It's like having two different calibers!

[waltham41]

Couple of quick questions while I am waiting for my product to arrive

1) Can you use acetone bought at walmart in the fingernail product section, or do I need to look at lowes for industrial acetone?

2) Casting.... I flux with pieces of crayon, will that affect how the product sticks to the boolits? I have dropout sprayed in the molds, any problems there? I use a pure COWW alloy.

Thanks!

[jcobb651]

Walmart sells acetone in the paint supply section. Its what I use....about $7. I've never used crayon to flux but I have used parafin. No problem with it sticking so I don't see a problem there. All I use is coww.
Listen to all the advice of shaking the beejesus out of the product....before you pour it into the mixing container, after you pour it into the mixing container and then some shake it some more. Seriously.

[Ausglock]

Ausglock - you can use the PID on the heating element, just not the fan motor. For anyone wanting to use the PID on the oven, I'd advise to disable the learn & D part of the PID( forget which constant it is, set to 0 or max - look it up). It's not a lead pot (constant mass), you probably will get large temp overshoots. The purpose of a PID is to get the heat up faster, a PI will control the final temp fine. The learn mode tries to match the heating profile to a predetermined profile. If the mass to be heated changes greatly, it will not follow the profile.

Thanks.
I was going to break into the wiring of the oven and hook the PID/SSR direct to the heating elements and bypass the fan/ thermostat wiring. Thus only the heating would be controlled, rather than the whole oven.

Would this be OK?

[Ausglock]

Couple of quick questions while I am waiting for my product to arrive

1) Can you use acetone bought at walmart in the fingernail product section, or do I need to look at lowes for industrial acetone?

2) Casting.... I flux with pieces of crayon, will that affect how the product sticks to the boolits? I have dropout sprayed in the molds, any problems there? I use a pure COWW alloy.

Thanks!

The nail polish remover may have nice smelly stuff in it, but it is still Acetone, So give it a try. I imagine anything marketed at women would cost more, so the Industrial stuff may be cheaper.

Mold release etc etc will not cause issues with the coating. neither will your crayon. I use my failed home made lube for fluxing. it is beeswax, parafin, and crayon based. Just do not put any sort of lube on the bullets before coating.

Yes, shake the krap out of everything all the time. imagine you had severe Parkinsons desease. shake shake shake all the time.

[high standard 40]

Couple of quick questions while I am waiting for my product to arrive

1) Can you use acetone bought at walmart in the fingernail product section, or do I need to look at lowes for industrial acetone?

Thanks!

I'm not certain, but I think nail polish remover has some oil in it, so that it does not dry out the skin of the ladies. I would personally opt for the pure acetone from the paint section.

[kweidner]

Did some more research today with a NOE hp designed .44 Keith. Traditionally it was above average accurate dropped with 11bhn coww. On a whim I wanted to try this with both coating and traditional lube due to the fact it would lead the forcing cone slightly with felix. Well let me say I am glad I tried it. Gonna be the critter stopper this year. Silver dollar accuracy at 100 yds and a MIRROR bright barrel and forcing cone. These were hotter loads using 18.3 grains of 2400 coated and lubed with felix. It doesn't lead with just the coating but is more accurate with the lube in the groove? interesting. This proved true with both my 4.75" blackhawk iron sights rested at 50 and 100 yds rested in my scoped custom 629.
In other news I am still struggling a bit with the my particular .40 but in everything else the stars have finally aligned. Thinking the .40 is my gun. I ran 100 rounds through my buddy's glock last weekend and had zero problems. There are slight machining marks in my 24/7. Beginning to think that is the issue. Matter of fact the only .40 I can get to lead even remotley is mine. Shot it through multiple glocks, HK rugers etc. Just mine that leads. Accuracy never leaves but you can see it in the grooves and the last bit of the bbl. I might have to fire lap it.

[kweidner]

double post

[Lizard333]

Had a member here help me out with some of my 311041 bullets. He coated them so I could try them in my suppressor. They turned out awesome, and my barrel was bright and shinny. The oven treating did drop the hardness from 24 to 14. Still shot fine at 1060fps.

[shadowcaster]

waltham41... 2) Casting.... I flux with pieces of crayon,

Your crayon/wax and oils don't flux.. they only reduce. Try using dry sawdust as flux. It's the best flux I have used.

Shad

[codawolf]

Kwiedner, I have had nothing but trouble with my 24/7 in 45acp. That little gun has leaded with everything I have tried. Now I have not tried the Hi tek coated yet but that will hopefully be next week end.

[Love Life]

HI-TEK Super Coat and my experiences

The coating process: At first it was a pain in the rump. After reading the instructions I learned to shake everything before making the coating and then coating the bullets. I used a moderate 1st coat and a moderate 2nd coat. Using the red copper you REALLY have to shake the ever loving snot out of everything whenever you coat anything!!

The baking process: Pretty uneventful. Let the oven pre-heat to 375 degrees, pop a tray of bullets in, set the timer for 8 minutes, once the timer dings remove the bullets. Allow to cool before applying 2nd coat, apply 2nd coat, rinse, and repeat.

The checking process: Once the coating (whether 1st or 2nd) has been baked and the bullets have cooled, grab a couple bullets. I smack one with an 8 lb sledge hammer to check for flaking. No flaking=awesome. Next pour some acetone on a white paper towel. I try my hardest to wipe of the coating. If you get a smidgen of color on the acetone wipe, or o color, then you’re good. If you get a bunch of coating then that is not good and you will need to bake longer.

Sizing: I use the Lee push through sizers. They are easy to work with. What I do is I’ll grab a small abount of bullets and squirt them with Hornady 1 shot (about all it is good for), let them dry, and then push the lubed bullets through about every 20 bullets or so to make sizing easy. I do this because my bullets cast at .453, after coating are almost .455, and are being sized to .452. Same thing with my 38 special bullets. Now here is the deal. You should not have ANY coating coming off when you size.

Loading: Ahhh. Here is where we get to the benefits of the coating. As usual ensure your dies are set correctly and your powder charge is correct. After that all you do is load and be happy. I tested super crimp and light crimp. I had no issues with set back or leading with either one. Here is what is important. During the loading process I had no sticky fingers, I had no lube build up in the dies, I did not have to wipe off each loaded round with mineral spirits. Happy, happy, happy!!!

Shooting: Pretty easy actually. Load magazines, chamber a round, aim, squeeze trigger, look for smoke, see no smoke, look at target, see hole where it is supposed to be, look at gun, no lube build up, and then smile like a young boy who just got his first kiss!!

Cleaning the gun: Wipe off powder residue, run a dry, wet, dry patch cycle through barrel, lube, store gun. All done!!!

Today I fired 100 rds through my Colt Commander. 25 were given to me by Bayou Bullets and were coated with green. They looked very nice, shot well, with no leading. The other 75 were coated with red/copper by me. They didn’t look as good as the Bayou Bullets, but the shot as well, and were just as accurate. I fired the green bullets at 10 and 15 yds 7 rds on each target. I fired the red/copper at 10 and 15 yds 7 rds on each target. No smoke, no leading, and the usual accuracy. Gun was free of lube build up and as clean as my gun would be when shooting jacketed. Next I fired the remaining 61 red/copper coated bullets as fast as I could acquire the target, pull the trigger, and change magazines. All rds hit where they were supposed to, no leading, no tumbling was evident, no smoke, and the gun only had powder residue on it. Happy, happy, happy!!!

I’ll say that I was skeptical at first, especially after my first coating try was an epic failure. Now I am happy I bough this product and would recommend it to anybody who is interested in it.

[Ausglock]

Yep. It is good schit.
Great report, Love life.

[Love Life]

I still want to try the green so I can have a more uniform coating. Everybody knows that pretty bullets are 75% more accurate than not so pretty bullets...

[gunoil]

LL COOL. Ditto. on honest report for newbies or anyone.

[Love Life]

Ya'll saw my first coated bullets. They were horrible and made small children run away screaming in fright. That seems to be a pretty common trend for everybody's 1st time coating. All I can say is stick with it and you'll be rewarded. It is amazing how many you can coat, bake, and coat in a day of piddling in the garage. I haven't been able to cast enough to keep up.

Oh, and I ended up using a 5-1-10 ratio for the red copper. Anything less and the coating was to thick.

[gunoil]

Yep, i shake & take lid off then shake again. Then you see HTS drying quick with lid off, then dump and spread out on one motion on my stucco wire tray (4X2 1/2) to dry. Yea 5-1-10. Ausglock is right, it does take alot of acetone with red copper and some other metallics.


Theres a fine line of mixing color and acetone.
I just cheat, i do what ausglock says.







1962 prayer was banned from public schools. Bible reading banned 63'. The posting of 10 commandments banned from public buildings in 1980.

[Just Call Me...G]

Had a member here help me out with some of my 311041 bullets. He coated them so I could try them in my suppressor. They turned out awesome, and my barrel was bright and shinny. The oven treating did drop the hardness from 24 to 14. Still shot fine at 1060fps.

Lizard,

Which can were you using?...inspected and no deposits before & after shooting?
(don't want to assume).

What caliber?...again; assuming sub- velocities, you shot the 311041s plain base/no g-c?

Inquiring minds want to know.

:lol:


G

[goblism]

Well just an update on some of my experiences. Shot some pretty hot 385 grain plain base through my 475 linebaugh and had some leading. Had minimal leading with slower speeds. Might try a good cleaning again and going with 4 coats.

Better results with the 44 mag, shot some hot loads with gas checks and medium loads without (gc bullet without gas check),no leading at all and extremely accurate.

[preachinpilot]

Ive been coating with the red copper. Three coats and with 45 acp and 40 S&W I had absolutely 0 leading. Im happy and am now coating my commercial brand bullets with the coating. I will be testing 44. 45 colt and 45-70 bullets this week. All are on LBT bullets. Thanks Mr. Miculek

[hawaii five-0]

I sure am glad I tried this before going with other coating methods.

[ryokox3]

Considering the amount of shaking needed for the paint, especially the metalics, Has anyone tried a cheap hand mixer? Looking on amazon there are a few that have attachments that should be able to fit into the bottle. Also the mixing blades should be able to be modified to fit if needed.

[gunoil]

No, Not that much shaking.

[gunoil]

i have a bunch of WCC 9mm. Gotta be swaged first.

[waltham41]

Quick question while waiting for product.... has anyone noticed any difference in drying time with a change in humidity? Don't think I have seen that mentioned in this thread. Thanks!

[high standard 40]

Quick question while waiting for product.... has anyone noticed any difference in drying time with a change in humidity? Don't think I have seen that mentioned in this thread. Thanks!

I don't have a lot of experience to draw on, I've only done 4 batches so far and am new to this. But.............those batches were done here in south Louisiana where if the humidity were any higher than it has been here lately, I would have to grow gills. After tumbling the wet coating onto the bullets and placing them on a screen to dry, mine have been dry to the touch in 2 minutes or less. I do use a fan and have been mixing 5-1-8.

[Ausglock]

Quick question while waiting for product.... has anyone noticed any difference in drying time with a change in humidity? Don't think I have seen that mentioned in this thread. Thanks!

Humidity will slow the drying. HI-TEK says to leave them for 10 minutes before cooking. I like 20 minutes to 1/2 hour and then warm them with a hair dryer to just above ambient temp to be sure.
Remember slow and steady wins the race. don't be in a hurry to ruin your bullets by cooking to early.
I have placed 1" high spacers on top of my oven to hold the next tray of bullets to get cooked. this is allowing the tray to pre-warm before getting cooked. this seems to quicken the oven heat up time once the new tray goes in.

About 8 new colours arrived yesterday from HI-TEK. a few new reds, 4 new blues 2 yellows and a gold. As well as the new 3-extreme Catalyst. Mixed and coated with OR-Yellow and 3-EXT CAT 5-1-7 last night. It gave a nice yellow bronze after 2 coats. Smash and wipe fine. It didn't get into the crimp or lube groove of the 358 158 RNF bullets, so going to increase to 5-1-10 and see how it goes. Also going to mix a batch with the original normal Catalyst to see if there is any difference to the final coating.
Going to try the RED G tonight at 5-1-7 and 5-1-10 with both Catalysts.
There is a heap of coated bullets in my shed that I am going to re-melt and cast new ones from. I have more bullets in colours than I will ever fire, so re-cast is the answer. I should place an add at my range and try and sell them.

[Love Life]

Popper- Is that a 7.62X51 brass with a small primer pocket?

[leadman]

Earlier in the year when the humidity here in Az. was around 4% to 8% the boolits were dry to the touch in less than 1 minute. Actually had trouble with not enough time to tumble them so added some acetone. The ambient temps were around 110 degrees to 118 degrees.

I put some boolits in the sun to dry and they started to change color!

[Thompsoncustom]

Alright melted all my boolits down and mixed them(close to pure) with 2/3 WW and water dropped them. Did 3 coats and water dropped on the last coat. Went and shot 50 of them and the first 5 were prefect accuracy wise but it seem to start drifting off.

Got home and pulled the barrel and its leading starting at half and to the end of the barrel. So I did the acetone test and I'm getting a little color on 1 out of 5 bullets. Do you guys think the coating is what's giving me problems or do I need to let me 1/3 pure to 2/3 WW age hardened for 2 weeks?

Also found a company is California that sells n-methyl pyrrollidone so I ordered some and I'm gonna run some patches through my barrel and see if any of the coating is sticking to the inside when it comes in.

[HI-TEK]

Thanks for your posting.
I dont know, but it seems to me, that you may be slightly under cooking the coatings.
Which coloured coating are you using?
Would you be able to post some pictures of the finished coated projectiles?

With NMP, please do not mix with any water or water containing materials or with any other materials, as it will not work. It must be used neat or undiluted.
Easy to use, it is best paint stripper if used neat, a bit slow but works well.

(Dont spill onto any surfaces that may be affected as it will damage most painted or synthetic materials)

When cleaning baked on coatings, simply wet area affected with NMP neat, and allow to soak.
Warming metal with hair dryer will speed up removal.
When it looks as if it is done the job, simply wipe off excess, and rinse off well with water and dry.

If you find that the coating is sticking inside barrel, then it is a sign that coating is under cooked.
If that is the case, then simply try cooking coated projectiles a little longer, (experiment a little) the coating then should harden further and will not fuse.
Please let me know how you go.

[swheeler]

When I got home this evening Fed Ex had left my Red Copper on the steps, now to find the time;)

[gunoil]

TC, what firearm you shooting? Do u need gas checks? What ratio of mix are you using? Dont be scared 5-1-10. But you must know how to shake. Are you shaking with lid off? I shake a lil' then take lid off then watch with my eyes dead on and you will see boolits starting to stick and dry really quick. THATS WHY YOU NEED IT THIN. Then cook/cool/repeat. Iam getting it finally. Last few sentences are the key.

[gunoil]

Swheeler, since i am a novice, iam stepping down to green color next away from metallics. I bought redcopper first. Its plain to see miculek website in green boolits. My learning curve will improve then later back to metallics.

LMAO, i just spent 775$ for star sizer w/blue stick lube and dont even wanta use the wonderful magma blue lube. Iam lazy chicken or something. Na, the HTS is just so nice for my range ammo.

[swheeler]

When I get time we'll see how it works, one never knows;) I bought a B&D convection oven set it at 375 with a taylor oven therm on the center rack, held 375 for 1/2 hour, turned up to 400, showed 425 on taylor therm, looks like I got a good one. My interest is rifle GC bullets, will start out at proven mediocore velocity, check accuracy and move on up if able. Who knows what HiTek might offer but intend to find out.

[Love Life]

The red/copper is challenging for sure to get a nice purty coat. I am also switching to green. I have the red copper working gangbuster's, but I want a better looking coating.

[Ausglock]

I find the red/copper more forgiving when mixed 5-1-10.
The rose red is great with a nice shiny bullet when mixed with Extreme Catalyst 5-1-10.
I have to wear sunglasses when loading my 45 TC bullets :-)

[Thompsoncustom]

HI-Tek I Will try to get some pictures up today. I put the bullets back in the oven and I haven't found any now that I can rub any color off of. My color is Gold.

Gunoil.
All I cast for is 9mm. The load I'm using is 4.5grs bullets with a lee 124gr TL bullets OAL 1.125 should be going about 1150fps so nothing to crazy and there shouldn't be anything in 9mm that would need a gas check that I can think of.

Mix goes as follows: first coat was 1.75ml color 2.75ml acetone and 35 units catalyst. The 2nd and 3rd coats were 2ml color, 2.5ml acetone, and 40 units catalyst. I might even move the first coat to a little less color and more acetone trying to get the first coat to spread very evenly. This is used for 250ish 125gr bullets.


But you must know how to shake. Are you shaking with lid off?
Well I shake the **** out of the color before I pull 2mls from it and have 2 bullets in the bottom, Also I'm using a glass container and after the coating has been added I add the bullets and shake like crazy with the lid on I have never taking the lid off and it probably wouldn't work in this container but if it's key to have the lid off I'll find a another. I've never had the bullets start to dry while shaking only after I put them on the drying rack so there could be a problem here.

[HI-TEK]

Hi,
First I think from what you advised, that the mix ratio needs checking.
You need 5 parts of coating well mixed, one part catalyst and 10 parts solvent (Acetone).
If you are doing a small batch, take 5 mls coating, 1 mls of catalyst and 10 mls of Acetone.
This will make you about 16 mls of coating mixture.
If you wish to use US measures, you can use 5 ounce coating, add 1 ounce Catalyst, and add 10 Ounce Acetone.
Simply adjust volumes to what you wish to make in these ratios.

(You can double these amounts by taking 10 mls coating, 2 mls Catalyst and 20 mls of Acetone.
This will make you 32 mls of coating mixture.)

Important.
After barely coating with first coat, shake in mixer container until you can hear that projectiles are becoming sticky by change to a dull sound whilst shake/coating.

Adding more acetone, uses no more coating, but allows better and thinner coverage on alloy without excess.

After coating, and sound gets duller, simply dump the lot onto drying mesh. Do not disturb and allow to dry well.
(In hot conditions about 10-15 minutes should be OK. In cold wet conditions may be longer, and you can help with warm air drying so that before you place coated projectiles into the oven, they are all very dry. Most important with first coat))

After drying, place projectiles in warm oven and cook at 190C for about 10 minutes.

After about 5 minutes in the oven, you can check it by taking out tray (with gloves) shake to mix around the projectiles and place them back again for 5 more minutes.
This way, you will get better and more even baking and colours will all be the same.

Generally, what is found that small ovens do not have very good temperature regulations and dial temperature is not always what happens inside oven.
That is why some have problems with cooking cycle and time.

My suggestion is that you take about 15-20 dry coated projectiles, place them into oven, cook for 10 minutes. Take them out. Then repeat this with another 15-20 again, and this time, leave them in for 11 minutes.
And so forth.
You will see colour changes with every extra heating time taking place.

If you then do your Acetone test and smash test, you will get better idea of what you need to achieve.

Thereafter, you can simply reproduce most successful results using your cooking methods and equipment.

With lid on or lid off is not that important. If your mixture dries too quickly whilst coating, simply add a little Acetone ( a few mls) to mix bucket, ( no more coating mixture) and continue coating/shaking.

I hope this all helps.
HI-TEK

[Ausglock]

Thompsoncustom.
Personally... I think you are mixing too small of a volume for coating.
Mix a larger amount and don't be scared to use it.
I coat in a 1 gallon plastic bucket with 200 to 300 9mm bullets at one time. I use about 7 to 10 mls each time to coat with the 5-1-10 mix.

[Stephen Cohen]

Ausglock as a matter of interest what size and brand of oven do you use, you certainly seem to have it down pat.

[Ausglock]

Ausglock as a matter of interest what size and brand of oven do you use, you certainly seem to have it down pat.


G'day.
It is a Sunbeam BT7000. retravision have them for $145AUD.
I only cook on the middle tray.

[Stephen Cohen]

Yes I looked at one yesterday it was one of two that had the fan, thanks for the info.

[gunoil]

get a large cool-whip plastic container. Works great! I shake while then take lid off and shake and look.

See the white fan on floor, the rack is cheap with staple gun and stucco mesh from H depot. I even dry my brass and kool lead boolits too. Fan is good/5$@estate sale.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/855F6E5A-964E-415D-8FE5-E73412258F35-139-0000041378238055_zps6d28a2af.jpg

I do nines, KEEP it simple,just a few techniques. I will do some gas check boolits in the future. You saw utubes in first page?

[hawaii five-0]

When checking accuracy of oven temperature, it seems that the stick style of thermometer is faster/ more accurate than the dial type. I tried both. The stick style says "Five Star" and "Professional" on the package. Maybe they should change label to say "The one that works"

[gunoil]

get a large cool-whip plastic container. Works great! I shake while then take lid off and shake and look.

See the white fan on floor, the rack is cheap with staple gun and stucco mesh from H depot. I even dry my brass and kool lead boolits too. Fan is good/5$@estate sale.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/855F6E5A-964E-415D-8FE5-E73412258F35-139-0000041378238055_zps6d28a2af.jpg

I do nines, KEEP it simple,just a few techniques. I will do some gas check boolits in the future. You saw utubes in first page?

Just read ausglocks stuff, one or two sentences, no big deal, no rocket engineers/nasa stuff.

[Love Life]

I coat about 100 38 specials and bout 75 45 acps at a time. I have a glass measuring cup and mix 5 tsp of coating/1 tsp catalyst/10 tsp of acetone. I apply my first coat kind of heavy. You can see it on the boolits. The second coat is the same as the 1st and gives anywhere from 90%-100% coating.

In all reality I care less if the nose of the bollits are coated. I want the driving bands well coated. I need to call Donnie for some green. Then I can have Christmas themed magazines with green and red boolits!!

[gunoil]

I do same. thin on first/second. LL you shake with lid off? Iam thinking over 10 accetone sometimes in my learn curve.

[Love Life]

I shake with the lid off. What I do is I tilt the coffee can so all the boolits are in a little pile. I then shake the bejesus out of my juice bottle full of 5-1-10. As soon as I'm done shaking I pull the top and squirt some directly onto the little pile of boolits. I rotate the coffee can so the boolits swirl through the coating and alternate back and forth shaking to allow them to tumble some as well. I tumble for about 20 seconds or until I see the swirl start to slow. Dump in one fluid motion so they spread out and arn't touching. I usually let them dry overnight, or a couple days. I'll coat through the week and then start baking Saturday morning. As the boolits cool from the 1st bake I'll coat them again and leave them alone until Sunday after church. Once I get home I bake them the second time.

I usually bake for 8 minutes but have left them in the oven up to 11 minutes. They had some color change, but passed the swipe and smash test. After that I size them through Lee sizers and toss them in a coffee can to be loaded at a later date. I love the stuff. It just plain works. I still need to get some green though...

[Thompsoncustom]

Alright took some pics of the bullets

79068

79069

Right after the pics I coated the bullets again this time with 2.5 ml color 5ml acetone and 50 units cat per 250 bullets. Also I took the lid off and being glass you could see the difference, before the sides of the glass would be completely cover with coating but when the bullet started to change noise they also picked up most of the coating on the sides of the glass. So maybe mixing to little coating and using even less of it not letting it setup is my problem. This will be the 4th coat.

[leadman]

Thompsoncustom, did you read Hi-Tek's last post up the page aways? I think you may be using the wrong ratios. Don't know what a unit is though.
The ratio is 5 parts color, 1 part catalyst, 5 to 10 parts acetone.

[Thompsoncustom]

Hmmmm 50 units is .50 of a ml. if you convert it all to units it's 250units color 50units cat and 500 units acetone. I guess I thought it was a 5 to 1 ratio and 50 goes into 250 5 times.

There are a 100 units in a ml. I'm thinking I got it right maybe my form of measurement is confusing. Should be 5-1-10

[gunoil]

just say 5-1-10.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/D536726B-09B8-4B03-99BE-219DA4A47990-8304-0000087082BEB075_zps57df85e3.jpg
Ordered a blank NOE mold and took it to my cnc local shop, this is a no lube ring 108gr boolit for my 380. Turned out nice, should be easy to coat. I had him add an old spru handle i had from lee mold. He made spru plate. I cast bout 50 while ago.

Old lee handles i drilled and pinned. John did a good job on the CNC machine.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/5F2C277B-713B-4F04-AAB9-BCE7A6EC6DF3-8304-0000086456940752_zps03216380.jpg

It drops great. Washed good with hot soapy water. Set it on my hot plate from walmart and it warmed up.

[Love Life]

I thought you had this all figured out, Gunoil!?:lol:

I have been considering having a 358429, no lube groove, cut for coating. I want a H&G 34 clone with no lube groove, but I would need to send my mould out to have the loob groove removed and the blocks faced off to keep it at 230 gr.

Now I need a 9mm RN with no lube grooves...

[gunoil]

LOVELIFE Now jest slow down a lil'. Do one at a time. How near is your CNC guy? What advantage do i have with no lube groove?

I luv my 380's. I have 2 resturant jars of those 38sp for sale, one jar is HP.

[Ausglock]

I shake with the lid off. What I do is I tilt the coffee can so all the boolits are in a little pile. I then shake the bejesus out of my juice bottle full of 5-1-10. As soon as I'm done shaking I pull the top and squirt some directly onto the little pile of boolits. I rotate the coffee can so the boolits swirl through the coating and alternate back and forth shaking to allow them to tumble some as well. I tumble for about 20 seconds or until I see the swirl start to slow. Dump in one fluid motion so they spread out and arn't touching. I usually let them dry overnight, or a couple days. I'll coat through the week and then start baking Saturday morning. As the boolits cool from the 1st bake I'll coat them again and leave them alone until Sunday after church. Once I get home I bake them the second time.

I usually bake for 8 minutes but have left them in the oven up to 11 minutes. They had some color change, but passed the swipe and smash test. After that I size them through Lee sizers and toss them in a coffee can to be loaded at a later date. I love the stuff. It just plain works. I still need to get some green though...

This is exactly how I do mine. Same procedure. Only don't worry about them touching on the drying tray. by that time the coating is touch dry and they will not stick together when baked. When I transfer from the drying tray to the baking tray, they get shake around anyway and this seperates them prior to going into the oven.

[Love Life]

Do you ever have any stick to the wire mesh after baking? I do, but the mesh doesn't leave any marks and they pass the swipe/smash test. They also do not lead the barrel.

[BBQJOE]

I wonder if this could be done with no color added to the coating, as in a clear coat?
My guess is it would probably only work for those with experience in coating.

[Love Life]

I have wondered the same thing BBQJOE. That's why I'm moving to the green with less metallics in it. Easier to keep the color in suspension when pouring onto your bullets.

[BBQJOE]

I have wondered the same thing BBQJOE. That's why I'm moving to the green with less metallics in it. Easier to keep the color in suspension when pouring onto your bullets.
I really like the gold color. I think it looks nice with the brass. I'd be just as happy with the natural silver though.
I've got my M&P 9 shooting cleanly. The operator seems to have more shake these days though, so I'm not sure about accuracy. I'm now working on .44 on a mid sized load of unique (6.5) sized .429. I'm getting some lead out of the barrel, not crazy ribbons or anything like that, but more like lead dust. I'm using three equal coats on these.
I've never slugged my S&W 629. I know I should. (sigh) I gotta go watch some videos or something. Slugging an auto is easy with the barrel removed. I'm not so certain about doing it with a wheel gun.

[Love Life]

Slugging a revolver is easy as well.

I like the way the red/copper looks (sor of), but I like the evenness of the green coating. I have some targets I need to post, but my pistolero skills are not the best so they don't really tell you much.

[Ausglock]

HI-TEK has stated that the un-coloured coating yellows when baked, so a clear coat would not be possible.
As for 44 Mag.
The commercial coated bullets here are used in 44mag revos and lever guns. Even the Desert Eagles in 44 Mag fire these bullets with no problems, all without gas checks and only with 2 coats.
My mate pushes his 44 lever gun loads to 1800fps with no leading. Bullets are sized .430 from the manufacturer.

[gunoil]

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/711916CC-7337-42F3-BABD-8FB6CC33EC5E-8304-000008A1D870CE35_zps3f6bde5e.jpg
Bad pic, but here the lil' 108 gr 380 from NOE mold. I'll be happy with em.

Gotta size em after i watch the rifleman
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/4111A72D-25D5-42FE-8FB6-5EC07F925C22-8304-000008A3D1648D86_zpsd77f914d.jpg

sized:
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/EAF1A40F-3778-400D-852F-AF5639BA408A-8304-000008A9B7288297_zps8a5838cc.jpg

[Thompsoncustom]

Well tired the 7ml and let them air dry for a hour and than baked them 6.5mins shake and another 6.5 mins soon as they came out I water dropped them. Tested 20 and there still leading. Not sure where to go at this point. Maybe one last coat of 10ml and see if it does it.

[BBQJOE]

HI-TEK has stated that the un-coloured coating yellows when baked, so a clear coat would not be possible.
As for 44 Mag.
The commercial coated bullets here are used in 44mag revos and lever guns. Even the Desert Eagles in 44 Mag fire these bullets with no problems, all without gas checks and only with 2 coats.
My mate pushes his 44 lever gun loads to 1800fps with no leading. Bullets are sized .430 from the manufacturer.
My 44 rifle (Winchester) shoots clean. My 629 needs the help. I'm gonna slug it tomorrow.

[BBQJOE]

Well tired the 7ml and let them air dry for a hour and than baked them 6.5mins shake and another 6.5 mins soon as they came out I water dropped them. Tested 20 and there still leading. Not sure where to go at this point. Maybe one last coat of 10ml and see if it does it.

Why are you water dropping them? That sounds like an issue maker.

[Thompsoncustom]

I think I read that someone on here was water dropping for rifles with no problems. I was using close to pure lead so I was water dropping to help any I could but I remelted all my bullets and mixed it 2/3 WW to 1/3 Pure tho it seems the alloy might not have been the problem.

[kbstenberg]

Another question from the peanut gallery.
If I am coating and cooking outside. What about any dust, of stuff just floating in the air? Will it burn off of the bullets during the cooking? or does it just not affect the surface of the bullets. Kevin

[Love Life]

I baked a feather into a bullet...

I now coat inside with very good ventilation. I just didn't see sand getting blown onto my bullets as conducive to a long barrel life.

[gunoil]

Do u size or size:
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/BB91E62D-F311-44F4-993F-4F972037E95D-8304-000008B1B33B3DC1_zps3d3f0e3c.mp4

Plus new mini mrbulletfeeder.biz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2swMSTzVWS0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D2swMSTzVWS0

[leadman]

I tested water quenching from the last coat. Did nothing to improve the hardness.
I did have some increase, about 2 BHN when baking the coated boolits for 1 hour at 375 degrees and then water quenching. Any higher temperature and the coating turned brittle and would flake off the boolit.
I am experimenting with heat treated straight linotype now but as of yesterday the hardness only increased by 5 BHN. I will check it again tomorrow and hopefully will see an additional increase. Trying to get to 35 BHN to then run tests on different baking times to see if I can keep the full hardness.

[Thompsoncustom]

OK thanks I'll stop water dropping them then doesn't sound like the improvement is worth the trouble. I think it's going to be best to just melt these down(only 500 this time) and try again following someone's proven system.

Ausglock you seem to be the one with the most experience so I'll be using 7 to 10ml on the 2nd and 3rd coat at 5-1-10. Do you do anything different on the first coat like more acetone and less color? How long do you let the first coat dry after shaking and before baking?

My leading is from the half way point and out so I'm guessing that means the coating is failing so I must be doing something wrong when preparing the bullets.

Bullet to bore size is good pulled bullets are .357 and bore is .3555 also I'm crimping lightly in the seating station and all pulled bullet have no shaving that can be seen.

It seems like people are having such good luck with this coating and I really want it to work but I must be to close to the problem to see what I'm doing wrong. Gonna log every step and take pics of the bullets along the bullet and the smash test that way if anyone see's anything they can point it out. So far tho my bullets look nice enough they just don't work.

[gunoil]

TC, dont mention ml's anymore would be appreciated, this is usa. FIND A TEASPOON MEASURE, i use a plastic one. Your ?'s have been answered at least 3 times. 5-1-10, shake with lid off, look at em,, you'll see change. Throw em out on dry rack fir 30 mins.. then cook 8 mins at 375. REPEAT.

Your trying to put it on like paint, think "kool-aide" looking mix, super thin...,,, after you cook it first time you'll see. repeat.

[Ausglock]

TC.

Ignore Gunslick. mls are fine :-)

I have mixed more new colours tonight.
My process is:

Shake the colour.
Add 50mls to a bottle immediately after shaking.
Add 50mls of acetone.
Shake the Catalyst.
Add 10mls of Catalyst.
Add 50mls of Acetone.
Put the lid on and shake it all like crazy.
This is 5-1-10.
I use the same amount of mix for the first and second coats.
Wipe test and smash test after each has cooled.
I bake at 195Deg C for 12 minutes.
How hard is your alloy?
I really can't understand what would be causing you problems other than soft alloy or uncured coating..

Mix a larger quantity of coating and coat at least 100 bullets in one go.

[gunoil]

Ok wambat breath, u better be nice some american may invent new NANO tech supercoat that only takes one coat.

[Ausglock]

Ok wambat breath, u better be nice some american may invent new NANO tech supercoat that only takes one coat.

Shhhhhhhh... You will give away HI-TEK's new secret coating process. nobody is supposed to know yet. :-)

Be nice or I will send you the rabid Drop bears for a visit.
79153

[gunoil]

Iam tellin ya , Nano is where is at and where it will be in the future. I heard someone say large ammo companies are dabbling in coatings. Well maybe hi-tek-supercoat is already involved in NANO. Yay!

[Nickle]

It's just a ratio.

+1. And, mililiters are used in the US too.

[Love Life]

'Murrica!!!

Now that that is out of my system I can add something productive.

I must agree with Popper on the leading only half the barrel issue. I'm thinking either undercooked, poorly coated, or undersized.

I plan to freeze some boolits this weekend and then do the hammer test to see if below freezing temperatures cause the coating to become brittle. It is a concern for me because we get cold winters. I'll post about it.

[ryokox3]

It seems like people are having such good luck with this coating and I really want it to work but I must be to close to the problem to see what I'm doing wrong. Gonna log every step and take pics of the bullets along the bullet and the smash test that way if anyone see's anything they can point it out. So far tho my bullets look nice enough they just don't work.

I may have missed it in an earlier post, but are you confirming the oven temp with an quality thermometer? I find the built in temp control can be way off on my toaster oven.

[Love Life]

^^Good question. 400 on my oven knob equals 375 in the oven.

I'm thinking your not letting the coating dry enough, not baking hot enough, and/or not baking long enough.

Did you say whether or not hey pass the smash and swipe test? Are your bullets to small?

[high standard 40]

Stepping into this discussion, I am new to the HiTek coating. I've done about 6 batches so far and while I have not fired any yet, my bullets look good to me. They are evenly coated and pass the smash and acetone tests. My question is about drying time----that is to say between tumbling and baking. I have the instruction sheet that came with my kit from Bayou and all that is stated there is that the bullets should be left on the wire mesh until they are "dry to the touch". I've seen some here say 10 minutes, some say 30 minutes, some say overnight or even longer. After coating, my bullets are dry to the touch in about 2 minutes.

So what exactly can go wrong is they are baked too soon and what is the general consensus of the proper drying time?

[Love Life]

If baked to soon the bullets will be bubbly from where the acetone gassed off. They look kind of like the moon.

For me, with no fan blowing on the boolits, I need to let them dry for a 1/2 hour. The only reason I let them dry overnight or longer is because I only bake on the weekends, but I'll cast and coat (1st coat) throughout the week.

[sparky45]

That's the way I'm going to go about the process. LL, what oven/toaster are you using? I have everything, just need the oven.

[Love Life]

I have the Wal-Mart Black&Decker el-cheapo convection oven. Looks like they are pretty hit or miss in reaching the correct temp. Mine hits 375 easy, holds that temp pretty well (Fluctuates between 368 and 380 degrees), and works as it should.

When I first bought it I was concerned about being able to bake enoough boolits to keep up since it is such a small oven. I bake about 100 38 specials and about 50-75 45 acp bullets at a time. It actually goes very quickly as you piddle in the garage while baking.

I can easily get 1,000 bullets baked in a day with out feeling rushed at all.

[Ausglock]

When the bullets are touch dry, feel them. They will feel cold. This is the cooling effect Acetone has on the metal. this means that there is moisture (not water) under the coating.
This is why I leave for at least 10 minutes then warm with a hair dryer before baking. Or leave for 1/2 hour (no hair dryer) or even leave for 24 hour or overnight if I don't get to bake them that day.
The commercial casters will leave coated and unbaked bullets for up to a week depending on their production schedule.

Last night, I placed 4 pieces of 1"dia steel tubing, 1" high spacers on the top of my oven and placed the next tray to bake on this to pre-warm the bullets. each tray holds approx 250 bullets. with a 12 minute bake time, the tray on top was just able to be picked up with bare hands and placed into oven without burning my hands. The bullets were nice and warm and the oven didn't loose much temp trying to heat the bullets up to curing temp.

I coated with the new red/copper without metallic ingredients. It looks just like the old red/copper. Just not as sparkly and more idiot proof for the shake and mix process. I used the new experimental 3-extreme Catalyst for this 5-1-10 mix. After 2 coats and wipe and smash tested. I tried sizing. The bullets coated were Lee 358 158gr RNF. I sized them to .356 with only 2 fingers on the little lee C press handle to push the bullet through the sizer. nice and easy sizing.

[Ben]

All this is " SIMPLE " ???

[Ausglock]

All this is " SIMPLE " ???

Yep sure is. It sounds far more complicated than doing it.

Last night I coated and baked 2000 bullets in about 1 1/2 hours.

While some were baking, I was sizing the baked bullets.
Easy. Simple and clean.

[Love Life]

All this is " SIMPLE " ???

It is actually very simple. Much more simple than the 877 posts would lead you to believe!! I can get a couple thousand boolits baked in a weekend without rushing. While some are baking, I'm sizing or doing something else.

Not only is it simple, but it is CLEAN in the reloading process. No melting lube to fill resevoirs, no lubing bullets and praying they don't stick together in their storage bins, no worrying if the lube will melt off or degrade, no gunked up sizing dies, no sticky fingers, no wiping the loaded rounds off after loading, no lube build up on the firearm when firing, no smoke.

So in conclusion: Screw traditional lubes.

[Thompsoncustom]

To answer some questions:

Gunoil: I live in the Iowa but work for a vet clinic so using ml's just seems super easy to me. My last question was not about the ratio I got the 5-1-10 down was just wondering if Ausglock was using less of that ratio on the first coat compared to the other coats and if the ratio was thinned for the first coated for more even spread.

Ausglock: I'm not sure on the hardness of my bullets but I can't tell you I was using some lead my brother found by the river that appeared to be sheets of lead all smashed up. The thought on here was that was close to pure and causing my problem so I alloyed it with WW now the alloy is 1/3 river lead and 2/3 WW. I can pour some out of my pot and add more WW if you think that would help also my cousin can bring me some linotype if I need that.

Added: Better yet I'll put that pot off to the side and cast up 500 straight WW bullets so I can check alloy off the list of possible problem or maybe that is all that's going on. I will say there has been a improvement since I went from all river lead to only 1/3 but I'm not sure if that was from changing the coating or the lead.

Popper:Well I can't tell you if they are being cooked right or not but I have went this route to determine time and temp. After I coated a batch of bullets I put a hand full in the oven at 400(oven dial temp) for 8 mins and did the wipe test, and they failed. Worked my way up to 12 mins and they all pass the wipe test. Undersized bullets or a light load and crimp, Nope my pulled bullets measure .357 and my bore is .3555 so should be plenty over and no signing of crimping problems. My load is 4.7grs of bulleye under a Lee 124gr TL bullet OAL 1.125 quickload has it coming in just over standard pressure and about 1200fps.

ryokox3: no I have not used the above method to get the bullets to pass the wipe test.

Now on the smash test I have mixed feelings on if they pass or not. On the second coat no doubt they pass but on the forth coat when the bullet gets really flat you can see lead in the tumble grooves that doesn't appear to be from the hammer impact in anyway. I've still got the bullets I'll try to get some pics up.

[gunoil]

dont pay no attention to my 11th grade edjumacation TC. I always keep it simple. IAM ALWAYS CONSIDERING THE NEWBIES CYFER CURVE.

Ben u can do it, hell,, i can! Just a lil practice. Dont forget to take the lid off and look as they start to go off. I just did 300. I saw your web site before, wild and beautiful talent. I know u enjoy it.

[Thompsoncustom]

4th coating bullets on left and 2nd coating bullets on right. The shown lead on the 2nd coated bullets are from impact I don't think any of the lead shown on the 4th coated bullets are or maybe just a little.

79205

To add to the madness these were water dropped on the 3rd and 4th coating.

Also if you want a close up of any of these bullets I can repost a real close up.

[gunoil]

looks like its thin and working. How long have you been casting.

[Love Life]

Keep trying, you'll get it.

The you, your firearms, and your reloading equipment will be super happy.

[swheeler]

Got home tonight about 6pm and had to try it out. 5-1-10 red copper, nice and even first coat, titty pink 8 miniutes at 375, second coat nice and even 8 minutes at 375, copper look, 3 rd coat 10 minutes at 375, dark red copper color, lube grooves filled with what appears to be metal flakes, nice even coat. I tried the acetone test, not a trace. If it is this easy and works like I hope, nelly bar the gate!http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg234/kmw3291/081413_220800_zpsfbfb224a.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/kmw3291/media/081413_220800_zpsfbfb224a.jpg.html)

[Ausglock]

4th coating bullets on left and 2nd coating bullets on right. The shown lead on the 2nd coated bullets are from impact I don't think any of the lead shown on the 4th coated bullets are or maybe just a little.

79205

To add to the madness these were water dropped on the 3rd and 4th coating.

Also if you want a close up of any of these bullets I can repost a real close up.

Coating looks OK.
were this squeezed in a vice?
I like to place mine on a lump of rail line and smash with a sledge hammer.

[HI-TEK]

Got home tonight about 6pm and had to try it out. 5-1-10 red copper, nice and even first coat, titty pink 8 miniutes at 375, second coat nice and even 8 minutes at 375, copper look, 3 rd coat 10 minutes at 375, dark red copper color, lube grooves filled with what appears to be metal flakes, nice even coat. I tried the acetone test, not a trace. If it is this easy and works like I hope, nelly bar the gate!http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg234/kmw3291/081413_220800_zpsfbfb224a.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/kmw3291/media/081413_220800_zpsfbfb224a.jpg.html)

Good work. They look great.
My only two cents worth is, that if you ended up with coating in the lube grooves, you may have applied a little too much coating.
Just cut back a little, or dilute a little further with Acetone and use same amount in volume that you used to coat this lot at each stage.
If it smashed OK and sized OK and passed Acetone test, you are close to 100% efficient.
Well done

[HI-TEK]

'Murrica!!!

Now that that is out of my system I can add something productive.

I must agree with Popper on the leading only half the barrel issue. I'm thinking either undercooked, poorly coated, or undersized.

I plan to freeze some boolits this weekend and then do the hammer test to see if below freezing temperatures cause the coating to become brittle. It is a concern for me because we get cold winters. I'll post about it.



Some time ago, there was a test carried out, where the coating was frozen down to minus 49C, then allowed to come to room temperature, and no problems with coating.

If projectiles are used at sub zero conditions, you must keen to go out in those conditions.
It will be interesting with what you find.
Looking forward to your posts.

[Thompsoncustom]

Good, no they weren't put in a vice the imprinting you see on them is from a shirt I put them in to help with rubbing of the hammer or the concert floor.

[swheeler]

HITEK I think you are correct, for each coat i just eyeballed a squirt, first and second coats I only had to swirl for a minute, third coat I had to swirl quite a while until the sound changed, my eyeball must have been way of. I will hammer test later.

[Love Life]

Does it matter if you have too heavy of a coat? I have some of my 1st 45 ACP boolits that have HEAVY 1st and 2nd coats, and the passed all the tests, sized fine (had to hit with one shot due to added diameter), and shot fine.

Easy peasy.

HI-TEK- We had a cold snap last winter where it never got above freezing during the day and was in the negatives all night through the mornings for about 29 days. That is the best hunting weather!!! 7 layers of clothes, mickey mouse boots, and some snow shoes! Those temperatures are also the reason I don't invest in those super cool looking aluminum rifle chassis...

[HI-TEK]

Does it matter if you have too heavy of a coat? I have some of my 1st 45 ACP boolits that have HEAVY 1st and 2nd coats, and the passed all the tests, sized fine (had to hit with one shot due to added diameter), and shot fine.

Easy peasy.

HI-TEK- We had a cold snap last winter where it never got above freezing during the day and was in the negatives all night through the mornings for about 29 days. That is the best hunting weather!!! 7 layers of clothes, mickey mouse boots, and some snow shoes! Those temperatures are also the reason I don't invest in those super cool looking aluminum rifle chassis...


I can imagine that cold, and how folk would like to venture out in such beautiful weather. lol.

Coating thicknesses are usually built up using very thin coats each time.
Using diluted coatings, and doing it twice or 3 times, end us using less coating and provides best looking and performing product. (you really do not need huge thicknesses of coatings on alloy to work, as long as it is coated and baked OK. Sizing test, (or smashing) will usually show up with any problems with coating or techniques)
If applying too thick a coatings, sizing then becomes more difficult as coating is very tough and resists pressure more.
Some folk like thick coats, some like to just stain coat, and they all work in majority.
The difference in during sizing with amount of pressure required to push through the projectiles.
Using Extreme or 2-Extreme catalyst makes the sizing process very easy irrespective of coating thickness.

I suppose the idea is costs as well, as using minimum of coating will end up costing very little to make many projectiles.

Once you have done this a few hundred times, you will soon know what can be achieved with minimum coating use that works for you.
Thanks much for your blogs.

[gunoil]

Iam a stain'er, not a coat'er like hi-tek noted. Stained 380's last nite and still out there.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/EAF1A40F-3778-400D-852F-AF5639BA408A-8304-000008A9B7288297_zps8a5838cc.jpg
Custom mold i had made local:
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/5F2C277B-713B-4F04-AAB9-BCE7A6EC6DF3-8304-0000086456940752_zps03216380.jpg
Shot them today in 4 different 380 pistols.

Below is sizing last nite:
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/BB91E62D-F311-44F4-993F-4F972037E95D-8304-000008B1B33B3DC1_zps3d3f0e3c.mp4

[prickett]

Added: Better yet I'll put that pot off to the side and cast up 500 straight WW bullets so I can check alloy off the list of possible problem or maybe that is all that's going on.

Great move. Eliminate as many variables as possible. If/when you get no leading from straight WW's, then start cutting your alloy with soft lead, a little at a time, until you resume getting leading. At that point you know what does and does not work.

[leadman]

I have been conducting some tests on water quenching and heat treating lead alloys along with the HT coating. In some cases the hardness survives the baking of the coating, sometimes it does not. Same ovens, same time, same mixture of the coating.
What is different is the alloys. My normal batch of alloy I cast from is a mixture of isotope containers, coww, linotype, and some misc. alloys. All the batches were weighed out and melted #145 at a time, #1,800 total. This measures 11 BHN air cooled, 15 BHN water quenched. IIRC heat treated was around 22 BHN. This mixture when water quenched and then coated does not survive the baking at higher than 11 BHN.
I tried another alloy of 50-50 COWW/linotype that I heat treated to #32 BHN. It was 15 BHN after coating. I heat treated some straight linotype to 35 BHN and it did survive the coating at 32 BHN.
So if you have an alloy that will not retain the level of hardness from water quenching or heat treating try another alloy as it might work.

[Thompsoncustom]

Well cast up 250-300 last night of straight Clip on Wheel weigths. Coated these bullets 3 times using 5-1-10 raito and about 7ml's per coating. Bullets were shaking with lid on and off so that the coating started to setup and then dump on to tray and waited about a hour. cooked at 400(oven dial) for 6.5 mins took out and shook them around and back in for another 6.5mins. All coatings were cooked the same way. Load data is the same as before 4.7gr of bulleye lee 124gr TL bullet OAL 1.125. Bullets pass the wipe and smash test with no problems.

Went and shot 20 when the sun came up. Again the first 5 were spot on but seems to drift soon after that. Still leading the barrel seems like it might be a little less than the last batch of 2/3 WW and 1/3 Pure. Gonna get some linotype coming my way and see if that makes any difference tho I'm guessing people are running straight WW without problems.. Also probably gonna take the load down to 1100fps and see if that helps maybe it's just to hot for the coating.

[Love Life]

ThompsonCustom- Hmmm. By all accounts you shouldn't be getting leading. Do you have a super rough bore or is there no throat? Maybe a sharp entrance into the barrel is shaving your boolits or at least knocking the coating off?

I ran some 358429 full tilt in the 357 magnum and had no leading issues using a hodgepodge (I have no idea what alloy is in my pot as I add stuff) alloy and had no leading or coating in the barrel.

[Thompsoncustom]

I thought about that and a couple days ago I loaded a bullet with only a primer and launched the bullet into the barrel. After beating it back out the same way it came it the coating was all still on there and no exposed lead[smilie=b: no pits in the bore and it looks smooth not sure how i would tell? Also fells fine when pushing a patch through.

I've been using the CZ for the most part but when I started having problems I was using my glock 17 and 75b that day and they both leaded but I haven't tired the glock since.

[gunoil]

TC, your bullets seating correct with no shaving?

I would cook 8 mins. Thats what i do.

[Love Life]

TC- I just don't know. Your bullets look like they have been coated correctly, the bore and chamber aren't scraping off coating, your boolits are sized right, and you have swapped alloys. Hmmm. Have tried a different powder? I don't know if that changes anything, but who knows?

[Ausglock]

TC. Most strange.
All I can offer is that the baking time could be longer. Especially for the first coat to ensure it is fully bonded to that alloy.

I bake at 190deg C for 10 minutes with all the coatings. The extra time tends to slightly darken the colour, but I'd rather a dark colour than an un-cured coating.

[dverna]

Ausglock,have you boys down under done any Ransom rest testing at 50 yards with coated bullets?

Anyone else with accuracy data besides "They shoot great and are accurate"?

Thanks,

Don Verna

[Love Life]

I have targets, but I don't carry a ransom rest when carrying in the field or around town. All they show is shooting from the standing...

I'll post them if you want.

[Ausglock]

I posted some photos of targets shot from a sand bag rest with a SVI Racegun a few pages back. You might want to have a look.
Do not have a ransom rest.
But. I had a Pulver 357Sig barrel fitted to my Glock 35 by Ray Pulver. He did ransom rest this gun when he fitted the barrel.

The target showed 20 shots at 50 metres in 19mm centre to centre group. this was shot with 165gr RN 9mm coated bullets.
He sent the target with loaded rounds and the load data when he returned the gun.

Now. out of a Glock, this is outstanding. he did massage the slide to frame fit at the lockup points to improve acuracy.

Do coated bullets shoot accurately??? Why not ask every handgun shooter in Australia. From the newbie to the world champion, we all use them and yes, they are accurate. NRA Action shooters will fire from the 50 meter prone and achieve 6 shot groups of less than 1/2 inch.

Why not get some coating and try it yourself. you will be amazed at how good it is.

[gunoil]

Iam getting better: these are 380, custom mold i had made. No lube grooves.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/2B29D6B9-BD04-430A-8E01-BE86FD62D353-10110-00000B3A654D9BDC_zpse49ae05c.jpg

These shoot great, slick all the way.

[Love Life]

Is that your 1st or second coat Gunoil?

Some of those boolits look well coated with the metallic well suspended and evenly distributed. Some of those look like all they got was bas coating with no metallic. Some of them look like you baked to soon and the acetone or whatnot bubbled off of the bullet.

[dverna]

Thank you Ausglock, that is the most important information (at least to me) in the 46 pages of this thread.

Gunoil should be awarded the "Understatement of the Year Award" for naming this thread "Simple Hy-Tek Coating". At least Ben and I will vote for him. LOL

All kidding aside, there are a few of us who have no issues with traditional lubes with pistol bullets. We get the performance we need with high production rates and see little incentive to change. But, give us a way to produce a more accurate bullet and we will be all over a new technology. Alas, my Bullseye days are long gone and I cannot shoot any better than what traditionally lubed bullets can deliver.

My main interest now is higher velocity rifle bullets. So this Hy-Tek stuff is of interest. Yet, to date, the few posters who have attempted to push velocities over 1600 fps have not met with accuracy. The bullets did not lead but accuracy was unacceptable.

I may take your advice Ausglock and do some testing on rifle bullets. But I do not want to go through the learning curve. With 46 pages of people testing "simple" pistol bullets this does not seem so simple. My thoughts are to approach the distributor (or someone here in the US who is achieving good results with pistol bullets) and contract them to coat 200 bullets that have proven accurate with traditional lubes.

I have a brand new .308 sniper rifle being built that has never seen a jacketed bullet and it would make a decent test platform. I would love to have a cast bullet that will hold 1.5 MOA to 600 yards.

[Love Life]

Whooooeeeee!!! I just got done baking and applying the second coating to 20 lbs of 358429 170 gr SWC and 20 lbs of H&G 34 Clone 230 gr RN. I'll be baking the second coating and sizing tomorrow. That'll give me 50 lbs of each boolit (I already had some cast and coated). I should be set for awhile!!

Now I need to get cracking back on the 9mm...and speaking of them. My wife took her girlfriends shooting today. She had her Glock 17 with 500 rds of coated 9mm boolits and factory barrel. She is well aware that shooting cast boolits from a Glock causes social disorder, anger issues, and nuclear explosions so lets keep the "Lead in Glocks is bad" comments at bay here, but I digress. She knows to check the barrel every now and again to check for leading...

Anywho she comes home happy. She shot all 500 rds (she must not be aware of the component shortage)!! She likes the coating. Her hands were much cleaner, she enjoyed not having the smoke, and cleaning the pistol (I had to clean it) was a breeze with no lube build up. She wants to know if pink is ever a color possibility, but I told her probably not since it would brown a bit when it was baked.

The bummer is that she shoots every couple of months and just chews up the x-rings from 7 yds to 20 yds. I shoot several times a month and I'm ecstatic to have all my boolits scattered throughout the X, 10, 9, 8, and 7 rings.

[Mike Hughes]

Thompsoncustom, are those loads for 9mm? If so, 4.7 gr of bullseye might be a bit too hot. The Lyman cast bullet handbook does not list the Lee 124, but it has the RCBS 124gr and calls for 3.7 start and 4.1 max. The Lyman max loads usually seem to be pretty stout.
I have been loading my 9mm with a Mihec 130gr hp with 4.2 gr of Unique (1050 fps) getting zero leading and great accuracy. I have been using range lead, tested a coated boolit and it was only 8 bhn. Are your boolits big enough, I size mine .358 and use a 38S&W expander plug in the Lee 9mm powder through expander die (keeps the boolit from being swaged down)

[Love Life]

Dverna- It truly is a simple process. My learning curve was 1 small batch of bullets that ate up 20 minutes of my life.

I can coat much faster than I can cast. If had more 6 cavity moulds or an automated caster then I might be able to keep up. I can coat and size using the lee sizers much faster than I could lube or size using my Lymans.

I had a star, and your right in that it is fast and would give the coating a run for it's money in shootable bullet production. If it wasn't being refilled or being a down right finicky pain in rump.

What I was after here was cleaner reloading and shooting. That was achieved. The accuracy I get from the coated bullets is the same I got from jacketed and cast/lubed in my pistol shooting.

Rifle is to be determined, but I will probably never get around to it because I doubt coated bullets will shoot under sub moa at 600 yds. 100 yd target shooting is a waste of my time so accuracy measures there are worthless to me.

I wonder though if the tumbling of the bullets could lead to a loss in accuracy? It can't be conducive to accuracy with the bullets slamming into each other and being rather abruptly dumped onto a mesh screen. Not only that, but uneven coverage of the coating as well. Just some thoughts from the peanut gallery here.

[gunoil]

some had three coats with some left over stain. Iam calling it stain now since hi-tek brought it up. These are beautiful. I love this schlits so far. Everything is so clean.

[Ausglock]

She wants to know if pink is ever a color possibility, but I told her probably not since it would brown a bit when it was baked.

There is a nice Fire engine red. it is probably as close to getting a pink as it gets.

I personally like the Glitter Bronze and the Rose Red.
I tested one of the new Blue coatings today in the Kimber 38 Super.

Severe leading was the result after 20 rounds.
Cleaned the barrel out and fired and fired 20 rounds of the Rose red coating on the same bullet and the same alloy. Zero leading.

Tried 20 rounds of the Gold 1035 and again, Zero leading.
Fired 20 rounds of commercial coated and Zero leading.then fired another 20 rounds of the blue coated bullets and severe leading again.

Just finished cleaning the barrel out. it is back to shiny clean and a nice coat of Froglube.
The elusive blue is getting more elusive by the day.

[Love Life]

Well...the color blue does increase accuracy by at least 17%. :smile:

I'll have to call Donnie and see what colors he has in stock and if any extreme-2 catalyst has hit our shores yet.

[leadman]

It was extremely hot at the range today (114 degrees) but I had some very good results with the 223 Rem. Got the velocity in my Contender rifle up to 3,495 fps IIRC. Accuracy was good but I was having trouble getting comfortable behind my Leadsled I am forced to use. I also shot my sons AR15 with my cast loads and they did excellent considering this is the first time I have fired an AR since 1973. The Ar has a side sling mount on the buttstock that interfered with the Leadsled so it caused a couple of flyers.
Going to hit the sack but will measure targets and post load data later, probably late tomorrow.
Also no leading in either 223 or my Savage 30-06 which also did well with the new powder, Reloder 17. I think I can go up a couple more grains with this powder but want to mic the cases first. IIRC the velocity was over 2,500 fps with the 200 gr boolit.

[Ausglock]

Good report, leadman.
Great results.
I wish I still had my AR15 HBAR.
Bloody government Stole it from me. back in 1996.

[Stephen Cohen]

Yes along with my 45s 10mm pump shotgun and Remington 1100 auto loader and sons 22 ppk clone.

[Thompsoncustom]

Thompsoncustom, are those loads for 9mm? If so, 4.7 gr of bullseye might be a bit too hot. The Lyman cast bullet handbook does not list the Lee 124, but it has the RCBS 124gr and calls for 3.7 start and 4.1 max. The Lyman max loads usually seem to be pretty stout.
I have been loading my 9mm with a Mihec 130gr hp with 4.2 gr of Unique (1050 fps) getting zero leading and great accuracy. I have been using range lead, tested a coated boolit and it was only 8 bhn. Are your boolits big enough, I size mine .358 and use a 38S&W expander plug in the Lee 9mm powder through expander die (keeps the boolit from being swaged down)

Ya I have about 6 manuals but didn't look through any of them for this load. I used quickload and my chronograph and it comes out to about 1200fps and just over standard pressure.

I loaded 20 more up last night with only 4.3 grains of bulleye these should be closer to 1100fps and 30k psi.

Yup bullets are prefect size as far as I'm concerned. My bore is .3555 and the pulled bullets are .357 so .0015 over bore. I use a lyman M die with a .357 expander plug cut to length for my 9mm cases.

[swheeler]

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg234/kmw3291/081613_152400_zps4db910c6.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/kmw3291/media/081613_152400_zps4db910c6.jpg.html)Looks as if my first attempt was a failure, where coating was thick in the lube grooves it chipped when given the hammer test. I coated a hundred lastnight, used one teaspoon of mix for 100 250 gr 8mm bullets, first coat was just blotchy looking pink. After third coat the lube grooves almost look as nothing is in them, they just turn yellow. I will give them the hammer test and see what happens?

[gunoil]

Dont worry bout yellow ring. first stain coat should look super thin like u screwed up. Then first cook they look lil' better. Then repeat twice & size with your gas check. 5-1-10. Preheat oven good. 8 or 10 mins..
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/2B29D6B9-BD04-430A-8E01-BE86FD62D353-10110-00000B3A654D9BDC_zpse49ae05c.jpg

You watched the youtube vids? Think lite stain instead of coat. Thats what hi-tek talked about his last post. Helped me! Your building up stain layers. Like staining your deck or whatever, stain is super thin.

[gunoil]

Leadman, u put gas checks on 223?

[leadman]

gunoil, your boolits look great. Yes, I do gas check the 223 and 30-06.

[leadman]

The coating does not need to cover the bottom of the lube grooves or in front of the driving band on the nose. Should be no barrel contact here so not needed.
Thinner is better as far as sizing and no leading in the barrel. I think the thicker coats get gas bubbles that weaken the coating, just my theory.

[codawolf]

Well I finally got to test the red copper in all of the 45's today and no leading at all even in the darn Taurus 24/7 That thing has leaded with all cast loads I have tried to date. I have found that with my Lee tumble lube 230 RN I can get by with only two coats but the mold throws a perfect .452 boolit. the Lee TL 200 SWC needs three but it is throwing at .454 and with just two coats when I size the coating seems to get a bit thin. Over all I am liking the HI-Tek coating. my dies stayed clean and smoking was minimal. I haven't noticed any accuracy change with the 45's.

[gunoil]

Great post codawolf,,, stain away! "A new word i stole from hi-tek".

Yea, leadman thanks for GC ?. I love this stuff. I want some 223 bullets and some gas checks. just a few to try. My friends shoot-em, not me.
1) what sizer would i need?
2) u get your Gas checks from castboolits? Forgot where i saw it.
3) no , i dont want a rifle, i have keltec carbine/40s&w.
4) paypal

[buffdriver]

I'm a newcomer to this thread and have been reading with great interest all of the tips, techniques, and procedures. Finally decided to order a half liter of red copper. Though I haven't been to the range to test, I must say that the process is very straight forward. Thanks to all of you for sharing your experience. I will report back with results once I test at the range. Below are some pics of coat 1 before and after baking, and coat 2 before and after baking.

Regards,

BuffDriver

79579
79580
79581
79582

[Ausglock]

G'day Buff Driver (Muff Diver????)
You bullets look great.
First coat thin. baked light. second coat copper. baked red/copper. Nice

How do they smash and wipe?

Don't sweat it about no colour in the lube groove. or where the nose meets the shoulder on SWC bullets. it may not look good, but they shoot great.

In Testing, I have had coated bullets that looked like a million dollars, but failed badly in the firing. so looks are not everything.


Tonight, I'm going to revisit the black coating. a new mix with the original catalyst to see if the black will be blacker than with Extreme Catalyst.

[buffdriver]

Thanks, Ausglock. Smash test is good, no color on acetone wipe. Pic below.

BTW, BUFF is USAF slang for the B-52!

Regards,

BuffDriver

79531

[Ausglock]

Thanks, Ausglock. Smash test is good, no color on acetone wipe. Pic below.

BTW, BUFF is USAF slang for the B-52!

Regards,

BuffDriver

79531


Good job!
Now load those puppies up and have some fun... :-)

[HI-TEK]

The coating does not need to cover the bottom of the lube grooves or in front of the driving band on the nose. Should be no barrel contact here so not needed.
Thinner is better as far as sizing and no leading in the barrel. I think the thicker coats get gas bubbles that weaken the coating, just my theory.

Hi leadman,
You are quite right about bubbling with thick coats.
What actually happens is, that thick coats form a thick skin on surface, trapping solvent and moisture below.
Even if it feels dry, when putting them into the oven, these vapours become super heated steam vapours, which show up as bubbles, (mini moon craters) and after cure, surface is like an "orange Peel", most common in such events.
Often the super heated vapours stop coating adhering to alloy, as the vapours try to escape between alloy and coating.
As I have advise many previously, simply just "stain at each coat".
This allows faster and more even drying, use less coating, looks pretty, and it works.
With two or three thin stain coats, you should get very acceptable colour and shooting results.
Thanks much for your postings, much appreciated.

[BBQJOE]

Thanks, Ausglock. Smash test is good, no color on acetone wipe. Pic below.


79531
What? Did you put that on a train track?

[gunoil]

buff D, u caught on quick. Spent alot of money on Kenworth and tires and food around your area clear down to the TA. My hang-out!

You got dem big dang pistol bullets.

[prickett]

I thought about that and a couple days ago I loaded a bullet with only a primer and launched the bullet into the barrel. After beating it back out the same way it came it the coating was all still on there and no exposed lead[smilie=b: no pits in the bore and it looks smooth not sure how i would tell? Also fells fine when pushing a patch through.

I've been using the CZ for the most part but when I started having problems I was using my glock 17 and 75b that day and they both leaded but I haven't tired the glock since.

I shoot my HT coateds through a CZ75 w/o leading. I size the boolits to .358" (smaller did result in leading when using conventional lube - not sure whether it would with HT).

[Thompsoncustom]

Well got another thing to knock off the list of possible causes to my coating nightmare. Tired the glock 17 and the CZ 75b the gun I have been using and both leaded of course. Will try a different load later this week with unique to see if that changes anything. :groner:


I shoot my HT coateds through a CZ75 w/o leading. I size the boolits to .358" (smaller did result in leading when using conventional lube - not sure whether it would with HT).

I had been running bullets at .3565 for the longest time with normal homemade lube and could shoot all day long with no leading. Just opened my sizer up a little more a while back.

[BBQJOE]

Well got another thing to knock off the list of possible causes to my coating nightmare. Tired the glock 17 and the CZ 75b the gun I have been using and both leaded of course. Will try a different load later this week with unique to see if that changes anything. :groner:
I was using 700x in my 9 and got leading. I switched to unique, and it stopped.

[leadman]

I noticed yesterday at the range that the first boolit in a group was always out of the rest of the group. i have been shooting 3 shot groups to save my neck (deterioration and arthritis). I have been pushing a dry patch thru the bore after each 3 shot group and I think this is causing the first shot to be out, so remember this as all shots are included in the group sizes. I also had problems with my Leadsled and my sons AR as the rear sling loop on the side of the buttstock was hitting part of the Leadsled. I tried stuffing things between the Leadsled and the buttplate but it did not help much.
All the boolits were coated with the Red Copper Hi-Tek.
Here are the results of my range session yesterday:
Savage 30-06 200grs, 314299 GC'd, Heat Treated Lino 32BHN, sized .311", Reloder 17 powder, Fed 210 primer, 3.3" oal.
charge avg vel. group size 100 yards
45grs no reading 1,835"
46grs no reading 4.958"
47grs 2,397 fps 1.469"
48grs 2,396 fps 4.921"
49grs 2,483 fps 3.75"
50grs 2,484fps 3.395"
51grs 2,508 fps 6.0" + This charge is max per Alliant for jacketed

AR15 in 5.56, 16"? barrel, Lyman 45gr RN GC'd, Heat Treated Lino, Sized .225", H4895, WSR, 2.025", crimped
Charge Avg Vel. Group Size 100 yards
22.5grs 2,502 fps 2.916"
23grs 2,603 fps 4.06"
23.5grs 2,596 fps 1.230"
24 grs 2,666 fps 3.386"
24.5grs 2,754fps 2.450" This load is over 3,100 fps in my 23" Contender

Contender 23" Heavy Barrel in 223 Rem. 45gr Lyman RN, Heat Treated Lino, GC'd, sized .225", H4895, WSR, 2.02".
Charge Avg Vel. Group Size 100 yards
24.5grs 3,159 fps 3.812"
25 grs 3,272 fps 3.682"
25.5 grs 3,346 fps 1.830"
26 grs 3,360 fps 3.256"
26.5grs 3,400 fps 2.907"
27grs 3,460 fps 2.482"
27.5grs 3,489 fps 2.181" Two tiny specks of lead on the dry patch

All of the top charges in the 3 guns was at max case expansion. Temperature was also about 114 degrees when we finished firing the groups.

[gunoil]

Cool beans leadman. The special forces like for their barrels to get build up, iam told. Shoots straighter. I luv this stuff.
Lots of quick stuff coming out ready in my garage.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/88883944-A80A-4B0B-99B8-9CF66F0F88FF-10110-00000B2B1AE16B18_zpsfd9aa27f.mp4

You can coat all ya want, but ya still should size.

[Lizard333]

Leadman, you consider leaving your barrel dirty? Some of my rifles, don't get a patch or bore snake through them until I start loosing accuracy. Sometimes I get a couple hundred shots through before accuracy starts to drop off. This is with jacketed or boolits. Now, my experience with the high tech coating is minimal, but the little that I have shot, my barrel was cleaner than with cast. Now, I'm also shooting non corrosive primers and powder, so corrosion is not of concern.

[leadman]

I was running a patch thru the bore to check for any traces of leading. Now that I have the data on what works as far as velocity I will shoot some longer strings. I may switch to the Saeco 120gr RN GC in the 30-06 to get higher velocities. Also will try different primers, seating depth, etc.
The Leadsled may be causing some of the large groups because my son was using it to sight in his 308 with hunting loads and they were larger than normal also. Only problem is I can not shoot anything with any amount of recoil without it to to health issues. I'll figure it out I hope.

[RDP]

gunoil,
What was the weight of the 380,looks like a flat base?
Thanks,
Rich

[leadman]

Popper, the boolits in the recent test are straight linotype that was heat treated for 1 hour at 425 degrees and left to age about a week. The boolits I overcooked were heat treated at 400 degrees IIRC for 1 hour. The Red Copper turned brown and flaked off when hammered. I did get some boolits to heat treat a little harder by using 375 or 350 degrees for an hour. Gained some but not as much as the 475 degrees would have done.
The alloy plays a real important part in maintaining heat treated hardness after coating from what I have found so far. I am going to add some more lino to my 50-50 COWW/lino to see if I can change the results.

[gunoil]

RDP, the 380's scale at 108. As you see, no lube groove. They shoot great, luv-em.

Yea, flat base.

[swheeler]

I noticed yesterday at the range that the first boolit in a group was always out of the rest of the group. i have been shooting 3 shot groups to save my neck (deterioration and arthritis). I have been pushing a dry patch thru the bore after each 3 shot group and I think this is causing the first shot to be out, so remember this as all shots are included in the group sizes. I also had problems with my Leadsled and my sons AR as the rear sling loop on the side of the buttstock was hitting part of the Leadsled. I tried stuffing things between the Leadsled and the buttplate but it did not help much.
All the boolits were coated with the Red Copper Hi-Tek.
Here are the results of my range session yesterday:
Savage 30-06 200grs, 314299 GC'd, Heat Treated Lino 32BHN, sized .311", Reloder 17 powder, Fed 210 primer, 3.3" oal.
charge avg vel. group size 100 yards
45grs no reading 1,835"
46grs no reading 4.958"
47grs 2,397 fps 1.469"
48grs 2,396 fps 4.921"
49grs 2,483 fps 3.75"
50grs 2,484fps 3.395"
51grs 2,508 fps 6.0" + This charge is max per Alliant for jacketed

AR15 in 5.56, 16"? barrel, Lyman 45gr RN GC'd, Heat Treated Lino, Sized .225", H4895, WSR, 2.025", crimped
Charge Avg Vel. Group Size 100 yards
22.5grs 2,502 fps 2.916"
23grs 2,603 fps 4.06"
23.5grs 2,596 fps 1.230"
24 grs 2,666 fps 3.386"
24.5grs 2,754fps 2.450" This load is over 3,100 fps in my 23" Contender

Contender 23" Heavy Barrel in 223 Rem. 45gr Lyman RN, Heat Treated Lino, GC'd, sized .225", H4895, WSR, 2.02".
Charge Avg Vel. Group Size 100 yards
24.5grs 3,159 fps 3.812"
25 grs 3,272 fps 3.682"
25.5 grs 3,346 fps 1.830"
26 grs 3,360 fps 3.256"
26.5grs 3,400 fps 2.907"
27grs 3,460 fps 2.482"
27.5grs 4,489 fps 2.181" Two tiny specks of lead on the dry patch

All of the top charges in the 3 guns was at max case expansion. Temperature was also about 114 degrees when we finished firing the groups.

I doubt it;)

[Ausglock]

I'd say, Fat finger and tiny keys ???? ;-)

[Love Life]

I get that velocity all the time from my 1911. No big deal. :smile:

[gunoil]

big hat, no cattle.




"i dont know what you'all are talking bout, hehehe, but i like that sayin". Humor is healthy!

[leadman]

swheeler, my fingers don't always hit the keys I try to point them at. Most of them are so crooked one can not tell where I am pointing. I fixed it, thanks.

I had given my friend some of the Saeco 120gr RN GC coated boolits to try in his AR in 308 Win. He showed me the targets and chronograph tape this morning from working up the loads. So far 2,701 fps, about 1" at 100 yards. No leading. He is using BW36, an obsolete surplus powder so no data for a 120gr boolit. At the 42gr charge the primer are still rounded, no case expansion above normal.

[Love Life]

big hat, no cattle.




"i dont know what you'all are talking bout, hehehe, but i like that sayin". Humor is healthy!

Have to keep it fun!

[gunoil]

thats the kinda report needed leadman for rifle people. 223/308/30cal,etc..

[35isit]

I'm almost ready to try this. Have everything except the coating. Have read every post so far and will continue to. A quick question. Does cooking the boolits each coat at 375 degrees change the bhn of the boolits? I only ask because I use straight COWW for silhouette and an approximate 45% SOWW/pure and 55% COWW for all my other shooting. I have no leading and get 1 ragged hole accuracy at 50 yards out of my T C Contenders. They are target accurate out to 200 meters. I run them with light charges of WW231 and Unique except for a .357 supermag I run at a pretty good fps with AA5744 and AA 1680

I want to thank Leadman and ausglock for answering my pms.

[high standard 40]

I'm almost ready to try this. Have everything except the coating. Have read every post so far and will continue to. A quick question. Does cooking the boolits each coat at 375 degrees change the bhn of the boolits? I only ask because I use straight COWW for silhouette and an approximate 45% SOWW/pure and 55% COWW for all my other shooting. I have no leading and get 1 ragged hole accuracy at 50 yards out of my T C Contenders. They are target accurate out to 200 meters. I run them with light charges of WW231 and Unique except for a .357 supermag I run at a pretty good fps with AA5744 and AA 1680

I want to thank Leadman and ausglock for answering my pms.

Greg,
If you have been water quenching your COWW boolits to harden them, then baking the HiTek coating will soften then back. They will then be like air cooled COWW. Someone else here has be experimenting with water dropping after baked the final coat but if I remember correctly the increase in BH is not that great. Not the same BH gain as water dropping straight from the mold. I have never actually experimented with the water dropping after baking myself so can't say for sure.

[prickett]

What makes HT brittle? Over heating? or, baking too long at the correct temperature?

[swheeler]

swheeler, my fingers don't always hit the keys I try to point them at. Most of them are so crooked one can not tell where I am pointing. I fixed it, thanks.

I had given my friend some of the Saeco 120gr RN GC coated boolits to try in his AR in 308 Win. He showed me the targets and chronograph tape this morning from working up the loads. So far 2,701 fps, about 1" at 100 yards. No leading. He is using BW36, an obsolete surplus powder so no data for a 120gr boolit. At the 42gr charge the primer are still rounded, no case expansion above normal.

i figured as much that's why the ;)

[HI-TEK]

What makes HT brittle? Over heating? or, baking too long at the correct temperature?

Both over heating and baking too long will damage the HT.
It is normally recommended that cure takes about 8-10 minutes at 190-200C.
Extended heating times, beyond those times will darken coating, and, make it extremely brittle and will be no longer suitable for applications.
The whole idea of coating is to separate metals, conform to hydraulic deformation, lubricate, and stay put during period where projectiles is in barrel.
As heat energy will harden coating further, the heat produced by burning powder and friction, will help coating to self-adjust for firing conditions during duration inside barrel.
By over heating and or pro-long heating before use, you accelerate that self adjusting process to where the coating becomes non functional.

[gunoil]

i guess 375 degrees then cold water prickett is not good for HTS.

Well all those multi-cal cast found there way to the ingot pot. Just like this clean stuff.

[Thompsoncustom]

Well might have found the source of my problem, I got some (NMP) n-methyl pyrrolidone in the other day and have been doing some testing with it. Cold it doesn't seem to do anything to a coated bullet or my barrel but when heated I was able to rub some coating off a bullet and also patch out some coating in my barrel.

I've heated the barrel and added the NMP and also tired heating the NMP and filling up the bore but sometimes I'll get some out and sometimes I won't I think that the NMP might need to be a certain temp to became effective. I will say that when I had the bore filled up I shined a light down it and I was able to really see the coating as it's impossible to see it by just looking down the bore and hard to do it with a light.

When people/ companies blue a barrel I'm guessing they put it in boiling water afterward I'm wondering if I bring the NMP to a stable temp of something like 200 and see if that does a better job. If I can get my barrel locked into something hold a flashlight and take a pic I'll get some up here so you all can see the "damage". I wonder if JB bore paste and some elbow grease would do the trick.

[gunoil]

If somethings wrong with your barrel, call em up, mail it in,, let em replace it. What kind of pistol did you buy?, you never said.

[Thompsoncustom]

The only thing wrong with the barrel is that there this Coating stuck in it. Two guns have had the Hi tek coated bullets in them my glock 17 and my CZ 75b(pic by my name). The cz is about 3 years ago and probably has 10k cast bullets through it without any problems before this and the glock is about 6 months old also no problems with standard lubed lead bullets. The CZ has coating cooked in the barrel the glock might have a little it's hard to tell with the barrel being black I can't say for sure and i'm worried that the NMP might mess up the coating on the glock so I can only say the CZ has it for sure. It's a nightmare to get out So advice to everyone is make sure your bullets are cooked.

I'll keep ya updated if I ever get it all out. Could care less about the glock but the CZ is my baby and is crazy accurate.

[goblism]

Which mold you using for the cz, mine is very picky on bullets. Haven't had any ftf with the hitek so far (200 rounds only)but had some issues with regular lead rf bullets

[prickett]

Both over heating and baking too long will damage the HT.
It is normally recommended that cure takes about 8-10 minutes at 190-200C.
Extended heating times, beyond those times will darken coating, and, make it extremely brittle and will be no longer suitable for applications.
The whole idea of coating is to separate metals, conform to hydraulic deformation, lubricate, and stay put during period where projectiles is in barrel.
As heat energy will harden coating further, the heat produced by burning powder and friction, will help coating to self-adjust for firing conditions during duration inside barrel.
By over heating and or pro-long heating before use, you accelerate that self adjusting process to where the coating becomes non functional.

Any specifics on what constitutes too long (e.g. leaving in 2 minutes too long or leaving in 10 minutes too long?)

Same question for temp.

I'm asking because my oven doesn't seem up to snuff (temp dial inconsistent), so sometimes it over heats and other times it doesn't heat enough. I'm wondering if temp spiking to 425 degrees during a baking session, or me extending cook time to 12 or 14 minutes due to undercooking is sufficient to cause brittleness.

[leadman]

I'm thinking of getting another thermocouple and using my pid unit I built to control the oven temperature. I tried to heat treat some boolits yesterday in the same oven as before at the previous same setting and it melted some of them. This would not be good for the coating. I had checked the dial setting before with an oven temperature gauge and used the same setting.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

[QUOTE=prickett;2355695]Any specifics on what constitutes too long (e.g. leaving in 2 minutes too long or leaving in 10 minutes too long?)
Same question for temp.
I'm asking because my oven doesn't seem up to snuff (temp dial inconsistent), so sometimes it over heats and other times it doesn't heat enough. I'm wondering if temp spiking to 425 degrees during a baking session, or me extending cook time to 12 or 14 minutes due to undercooking is sufficient to cause brittleness.[/QUOTE



2 minutes overtime will be too long especially if the temp spikes. Consistent temp is (my opinion) more critical than short lapses of 1 minute or less of being in the oven too long. The higher the temp, the more critical it is to be consistent on the time. (higher temps require shorter time in oven). Short lapses of time (if temp is consistent, will darken the color slightly, but all else should be fine).
Also, one could inspect his bullets at the 1/2 way point to check for proper "color" or curing, this would also be a good time to give them a little mixing on the tray and that will help ensure that the bullets are all receiving the same amount of heat, as the smaller ovens can provide somewhat unequal heating.
If you do not already have one Wal-Mart or your local box store has inexpensive kitchen timers.

[gunoil]

TC, get chor-boy pan scrubber at dollar store and some bore scrubber, That will get lead out and anything else, then repeat. Works at my house.

10 thousand rounds thru your CZ, impressive. I would think you would be good at cleaning barrels.

Lead is harder to remove than HT. duh!

[35isit]

Greg,
If you have been water quenching your COWW boolits to harden them, then baking the HiTek coating will soften then back. They will then be like air cooled COWW. Someone else here has be experimenting with water dropping after baked the final coat but if I remember correctly the increase in BH is not that great. Not the same BH gain as water dropping straight from the mold. I have never actually experimented with the water dropping after baking myself so can't say for sure.

I do not quench them at all. I was just wondering if the time in oven would "soften" them any? I don't know how but by dumb luck my loads perform superbly at 50 and are actually really good at 100,150 and 200. Although I use 148 full wadcutter to shoot field pistol with that only goes to 100. My hope is to duplicate this without using a lubrisizer and conventional lubes.

[Ausglock]

Temp v Time...

With all the coating I have been doing, I have yet to get a brittle coating.

Some of the experimental colour will not cure correctly no matter what the temp or time. I have had some coatings up to 240Deg C for 20 minutes and still the coating will smash fine. I can coat red copper and leave in the oven at 200Deg C for 1/2 hour. the colour is a very dark brown. But it still smashes fine and passes the wipe test. My first few batches of 45 bullets had this happen, and they fired through my Para single stack fine with Zero leading.

I have a digi Thermometer with 2 sensors fitted in the oven. one in the centre and the other at the rear of the middle tray. The dial says 180Deg C. The centre temp is 200 and the rear temp is 195. So, this is pretty consistent in my book. I still pull the tray at 5 minutes into the bake and shake them and turn the tray 90deg before replacing it into the oven. This gives an even colour and uniformity of colour from one bake to the next.

The PID has arrived and now I have to butcher the oven electrics to hook the PID to the heating elements.

I have 2 more temp sensors coming. these will be inserted into a 45 and a 9mm bullet ( drill hole in their bums) to see how the temp differential is between the oven and the bullet core. The coating also effects heat transfer, so the more coats could mean slower bullet heatup, thus affecting cureing.

Having said all this, the olny problem I have had since starting this coating is with too soft alloy and experimental coatings failing to cure. All the colours available to the market place have no issues when mixed and cured correctly.
Last night I cast some 358 105 SWC fron pure lead. I'm going to use these for bore slugging. I have coated them with 1 coat of a new red just to stop bare lead being pushed down a barrel when slugging. I might even try loading some and firing them. Could be interesting... Watch this space :-)

[Thompsoncustom]

TC, get chor-boy pan scrubber at dollar store and some bore scrubber, That will get lead out and anything else, then repeat. Works at my house.

10 thousand rounds thru your CZ, impressive. I would think you would be good at cleaning barrels.

Lead is harder to remove than HT. duh!

Ya there's a couple Chore boys on my bench right now works great for pushing out lead but not for the coating. I've been able to use a pick to get it out in some spots and NMP kind of works. I have some 3000 grit sand paper and it seems to remove it off the bullet pretty easy so i'm thinking jb bore paste should take it right out.

[high standard 40]

I do not quench them at all. I was just wondering if the time in oven would "soften" them any? I don't know how but by dumb luck my loads perform superbly at 50 and are actually really good at 100,150 and 200. Although I use 148 full wadcutter to shoot field pistol with that only goes to 100. My hope is to duplicate this without using a lubrisizer and conventional lubes.


You should be good to go then. It shouldn't change the hardness at all.

[HI-TEK]

Well might have found the source of my problem, I got some (NMP) n-methyl pyrrolidone in the other day and have been doing some testing with it. Cold it doesn't seem to do anything to a coated bullet or my barrel but when heated I was able to rub some coating off a bullet and also patch out some coating in my barrel.

I've heated the barrel and added the NMP and also tired heating the NMP and filling up the bore but sometimes I'll get some out and sometimes I won't I think that the NMP might need to be a certain temp to became effective. I will say that when I had the bore filled up I shined a light down it and I was able to really see the coating as it's impossible to see it by just looking down the bore and hard to do it with a light.

When people/ companies blue a barrel I'm guessing they put it in boiling water afterward I'm wondering if I bring the NMP to a stable temp of something like 200 and see if that does a better job. If I can get my barrel locked into something hold a flashlight and take a pic I'll get some up here so you all can see the "damage". I wonder if JB bore paste and some elbow grease would do the trick.

Hi,
The NMP is a slow working solvent. I did say that with my previous advice.
It works better if placed on warmer surfaces, and kept warm.
It will work, even if contaminated with removed coating, but will not work if water is added or mixed into the NMP.
If you plug end of barrel, and pour in some NMP and then warm barrel with hair dryer, it will work. Just have to be patient and leave it a while.
Over night will be OK.
Then, simply pour out and keep what NMP was in barrel for later use, and wash barrel out with water and a pull through cloth or similar.

[Thompsoncustom]

Indeed I have been following your advice. I guess what I need is a more stable way to keep the solvent at a constant temp than a overnight soak would probably take it all right out.

[HI-TEK]

Indeed I have been following your advice. I guess what I need is a more stable way to keep the solvent at a constant temp than a overnight soak would probably take it all right out.

Once you have warmed it, and then leaving it over night inside barrel, should work OK, without having to keeping it warm.
Initial warming, then soaking overnight should be enough to work.
The beauty of NMP is it is very slow drying, so what you put into a container stays same volume and does not evaporate.
I hope all works out OK for you.
Please advise how you went.

[gunoil]

TC, I better start lookin, but its been coming out. I know it came out of sig barrel. I have new pistol to shoot thursday after lunch, i'll start watchin TC. The HTS can't be worst than lead in barrel.

[prickett]

2 minutes overtime will be too long especially if the temp spikes. Consistent temp is (my opinion) more critical than short lapses of 1 minute or less of being in the oven too long. The higher the temp, the more critical it is to be consistent on the time. (higher temps require shorter time in oven). Short lapses of time (if temp is consistent, will darken the color slightly, but all else should be fine).
Also, one could inspect his bullets at the 1/2 way point to check for proper "color" or curing, this would also be a good time to give them a little mixing on the tray and that will help ensure that the bullets are all receiving the same amount of heat, as the smaller ovens can provide somewhat unequal heating.
If you do not already have one Wal-Mart or your local box store has inexpensive kitchen timers.

Your color statement intrigues me. Can you tell whether the coating is successful simply by looking at it color?

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Your color statement intrigues me. Can you tell whether the coating is successful simply by looking at it color?


The green color is what I was referring to. I should have been more clear in my statement.

[prickett]

Temp v Time...

With all the coating I have been doing, I have yet to get a brittle coating.

Thanks for the info. Good to know there seems to be some room for error.

[gunoil]

TC ,, shot 70 rnds thru new ruger380 today. Shoved the brush thru a few times. Alls good. So, cant help ya so far. But you'll figure it out. Just start over again 5-1-10 an keep is simple. I 've never had oven temp gage either, with no prob! But i did buy one today to use next time staining.

[golfhack]

Hi,

I've been monitoring this thread with great interest the last several weeks and finally decided to take the plunge. I procured some of the Green Hi-Tek coating from Bayou Bullets and mixed it to 5-1-10 ratio (lots of shaking) per guidance I've seen on this thread. I then applied a very thin first coat to about 250 125g lead 9mm boolits pre-sized to 0.356 (but not lubed) and allowed them to dry overnight. The boolits were then placed into a pre-warmed oven (oven thermometer measured approx 400 F degrees) and cured for 11-12 minutes. I was concerned that the toaster oven might heat unevenly, so I set it to a slightly higher temperature in the hope of ensuring all boolits would reach the 375 degree curing temperature. After curing, I let them cool down, applied another coat and let dry overnight, then put them in the oven another 11-12 minutes.

Everything seemed to come out okay (a little splotchy), not sure if you can see the photo below:

79950

The coated bullets measured 0.358". I did the acetone test and nothing wiped off. However, when I smashed a boolit with the hammer I noticed quite a bit of the coating flaked off. Looks like I might have over-cured it?

Anyways, had several hundred of these already done (yeah, I know, should have made a smaller batch [smilie=b:) so decided to load some of them up (6.2g of HS-6, OAL=1.14") and go out to the range. Accuracy seemed on par with my plated 9mm reloads, though I did notice a burnt plastic smell with the Hi-Tek loads - anyone else notice the same thing? Not a big deal if the coating works but when I got home and dis-assembled my gun, I l found leading toward the last inch of the barrel.

I'm guessing that this was due to the coating being over-cured? I will reduce temperature on the next batch, but any other recommendations or suggestions are definitely appreciated, especially if there is a way to fix the several hundred that I still have. Otherwise, I guess I've got some shooting and cleaning ahead of me..... :???:. Oh well, at least they look real pretty.


Thanks

[Ausglock]

Did you smash and wipe after baking the first coat?
Have you tested the alloy hardness?
Have you slugged the bore?

Apply another coat to your existing coated bullets and see if it stops the leading.

[golfhack]

Hi Trevor,

Thanks for your help. I did the wipe test but not the hammer test after the first coat. I did both after the second coat and noticed the flaking, see below:

79968


According to Lucky 13 Bullets, the alloy hardness is about 16 BHN. I have not yet slugged the barrel, however I have been shooting 147g lubed lead bullets sized at 0.356" with no leading issues.

I will apply another coat and try again at a lower temperature....

[Ausglock]

Forget the extra coat. that has been over heated to buggery. I'm surprised the bullets didn't start to slump.

Try again, but go get a thermometer to check the temp.

You need 195 to 200 Deg C for 8 to 10 minutes. At the 5 minute mark, pull the tray and shake them around and re-insert it into the oven for the last 5 minutes.
Smash and wipe after fully cooled.

[gunoil]

i dont see why members do the oppisite of what ausglock says. If your oven does not work go buy a convection oven at K-mart. 12 mins is not 8 or 10. I prob could have got bad oven but it works and it could go down in the future. I bought a oven temp gage today but with stain coat you usually can see if its finished. First thing donnie told me was: cook 8 mins @375. Hi-tek has said thin coats and used words stained instead of coated.

[Love Life]

Yep. Those are overcooked.

9 minutes(ish) gives me a nice gold color to the coating.

[Ausglock]

i dont see why members do the oppisite of what ausglock says. If your oven does not work go buy a convection oven at K-mart. 12 mins is not 8 or 10. I prob could have got bad oven but it works and it could go down in the future. I bought a oven temp gage today but with stain coat you usually can see if its finished. First thing donnie told me was: cook 8 mins @375. Hi-tek has said thin coats and used words stained instead of coated.

Gunslick. 12 minutes isn't the problem. It would be the temp.
I have baked for 12 minutes with the blue/green at 195Deg C with no problems, other than the green going really dark.
I'd Say that Golfhack's temp was in the 300 to 350Deg C area.

And yes, We are all still learning.
I thought I had it down pat until I tried the latest Blue coatings and it would still wipe off. I started to question my methods and re-visited the process with the red/copper and the blue/green. This verified that my mixing and baking process was correct. The issue was the experimental blue coating. A chemical reaction between the blue and the resin prevented it from curing correctly.

Golfhack. Mate, just try another lot. only this time try a smaller handful of bullets :-)

Be ware that HI-TEK has produced a 3 extreme catalyst for testing. So far it is working great. super easy sizing, but it doesn't work with all colours available. I am firing bullets coated with the 3 Extreme cat this sunday. they are red/copper and a Glitter Bronze coloured coating.

[golfhack]

Yes,

It was too hot, but it wasn't anywhere close to 300-350 Deg C. I did use an oven thermometer, which read 385 Deg F (196 Deg C) when I put the bullets in. I think what happened is that I did not wait long enough and that the temperature was still climbing. I had it set to about 410 after reading that most folks using toaster ovens had to set indicated temp higher in order to get an actual 375. Donnie had also indicated that I might have to set the temperature a little higher if I was using a toaster oven. When it hit 385 and stayed there for a while, I figured I was good. My guess is that my cheap Black and Decker actually hit 410 degrees - who knew it would be so accurate!

The bullets are not too bad, just some minor leading in the last inch of the barrel - fairly straightforward to clean out using Choreboy wrapped around a bore brush. I'll probably use up the remaining batch in 2-3 action pistol practice or range sessions. Besides, it gives me an excuse - if I suck at action pistol practice I'll just blame it on the bullets :2gunsfiring_v1:

For the next test I'll wait 30 minutes to make sure the oven temperature is stabilized at 375 before I put the bullets in, I'll keep it in for just 8 minutes, and I'll use a MUCH smaller test batch.

[golfhack]

Oops,

I should clarify that oven thermometer read 400 Degrees during the first coat, so I adjusted the temp for the second coat to where it read 385 degrees when I put them in. It was probably the first coat that over-heated everything.

[Ausglock]

Golfhack.
Do me a favour?

Before you coat the next lot of bullets, Place them in a container and give them a bath in Acetone for 5 minutes. Swirl them around and then drain off the acetone and let the bullets dry. Have a look at the acetone to see if there is any colour in it.
As you said that the bullets come pre-sized, I'm wondering if there is some type of sizing lube left on the bullets that would cause the coating not to stick correctly.
HI-TEK makes a mold release agent that will not interfere with his coating.
I'm wondering if the company that made your bullets may have used something.

Just running it through my head.......

[HI-TEK]

Golfhack.
Do me a favour?

Before you coat the next lot of bullets, Place them in a container and give them a bath in Acetone for 5 minutes. Swirl them around and then drain off the acetone and let the bullets dry. Have a look at the acetone to see if there is any colour in it.
As you said that the bullets come pre-sized, I'm wondering if there is some type of sizing lube left on the bullets that would cause the coating not to stick correctly.
HI-TEK makes a mold release agent that will not interfere with his coating.
I'm wondering if the company that made your bullets may have used something.

Just running it through my head.......

Just for additional information.
Coatings should not be used on pre-sized projectiles.
If projectiles are pre-sized, the sizing process seals the surface of alloy and coating adhesion/bonding is greatly affected.
Tests done previously on dry, clean pre-sized projectiles , showed that the coating will not adhere to alloy even if clean.
It seems, that during sizing, the alloy surface becomes sealed and the coating has nowhere to penetrate and stick.
If during sizing, if any lubes are used, like waxes and other, it would also cause coating to not stick to alloy.
Rinsing with solvents, may clean metal from lubricants used during sizing, but also, not completely.
Unless projectiles are vapour de-greased, I have doubts that in many instances, all lube components can be removed, unless solvent washes are done many times.
The solvent used to remove sizing lubes, should remove all lube components from alloy surface to have any chance of coating to stick..

You really need to ask your projectile supplier to supply you as is cast alloy, then coat them and bake, and size using the coated projectiles to your required diameter.
( this should reduce cost of your supplied product also)

If you test first coat and it stays put with smash test, and solvent wipe, then coat second time.
If first coat does not stick or washes off projectiles, don't coat a second time, as it wont fix problem with first coating not sticking, and second coat will strip off first coating , making a mess and finish will look bad.

[hawaii five-0]

I seem to have to bake my Lee 230 grain blackout boolits longer to get the color change. 12 or 13 minutes seems to do it. Not sure if because they are heavy rifle boolits, or Im over filling the tray. I have two temp gauges and a Hamilton Beach oven(convection). Boolits come out great

[golfhack]

Just for additional information.
Coatings should not be used on pre-sized projectiles.
If projectiles are pre-sized, the sizing process seals the surface of alloy and coating adhesion/bonding is greatly affected.
Tests done previously on dry, clean pre-sized projectiles , showed that the coating will not adhere to alloy even if clean.
It seems, that during sizing, the alloy surface becomes sealed and the coating has nowhere to penetrate and stick.
If during sizing, if any lubes are used, like waxes and other, it would also cause coating to not stick to alloy.
Rinsing with solvents, may clean metal from lubricants used during sizing, but also, not completely.
Unless projectiles are vapour de-greased, I have doubts that in many instances, all lube components can be removed, unless solvent washes are done many times.
The solvent used to remove sizing lubes, should remove all lube components from alloy surface to have any chance of coating to stick..

You really need to ask your projectile supplier to supply you as is cast alloy, then coat them and bake, and size using the coated projectiles to your required diameter.
( this should reduce cost of your supplied product also)

If you test first coat and it stays put with smash test, and solvent wipe, then coat second time.
If first coat does not stick or washes off projectiles, don't coat a second time, as it wont fix problem with first coating not sticking, and second coat will strip off first coating , making a mess and finish will look bad.


Hello Hi-Tek,

For the original batch of bullets, I asked the vendor to provide the bullets sized but unlubed. To confirm, are you saying that the actual mechanical act of sizing the bullet seals it even if lube is not used? Out of curiosity, what is causing the surface to seal?

If this is the case, I will need to change my new order of bullets to have them sent straight out of the mold, no sizing or lube. I will also slug my barrel and order a Lee bullet sizing die. A bit more work than expected, but I got a half-liter of Hi-Tek coating so guess I'm committed to finding a solution.


Thanks to you and Ausglock for your help. Stay tuned....

[gunoil]

Just get a magma star, just 800 dollars. I would say hi tek nailed it, i stain,cook, then size. Really get slick and pretty. My new mold has no luberings, worked out really good.

Whats your handicap golfhack?
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/88883944-A80A-4B0B-99B8-9CF66F0F88FF-10110-00000B2B1AE16B18_zpsfd9aa27f.mp4

[leadman]

I have tried coating boolits that I had cleaned a wax based lube off of and it did not work well. If you have to install gas checks on a boolit and use the Lee push thru dies try and use a die that is bigger than the boolit. I install GCs on a .310" boolit with a .314" sizing die and it works fine.
I know some here have installed the GCs after coating but this caused the GC to damage the coating and/or the base of the boolit because it was too tight.
I also run the GCd boolits in some acetone to remove anything that might be on them like oil from my hands before coating. I can't stand to wear rubber gloves or nitrile.

[gunoil]

how good does hiteksupercoat stick to copper gas checks?

[olaf455]

how good does hiteksupercoat stick to copper gas checks?

The HT Gold sticks to copper checks fine.

[golfhack]

Just get a magma star, just 800 dollars. I would say hi tek nailed it, i stain,cook, then size. Really get slick and pretty. My new mold has no luberings, worked out really good.

Whats your handicap golfhack?
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/88883944-A80A-4B0B-99B8-9CF66F0F88FF-10110-00000B2B1AE16B18_zpsfd9aa27f.mp4


How about this: my Lee bullet sizing die on order for your magma star, straight trade. Deal?:drinks:

Handicap.....I would tell you but I can't count that high. There is a reason I am shooting now instead of playing golf...I suck at both but my bullets go straighter than my golf balls.

[golfhack]

Don't know it it's supercoat but the green sticks to Hornady GC fine. I don't clean mine in anything. I store in clean peanut jars, apply GC with large sizer, coat & size, load. I have NOT done the smash test on a coated GCd boolit. I scraped a couple with a pocket knife, the coating comes off with a layer of lead. My perspiration must be toxic as I leave permanent finger prints on a waxed table top. I have to Pledge all my guns to prevent rust.


When you apply the GC with the large sizer, are you also sizing the bullet? If so, it seems that the coating is still sticking fine in your case.

[HI-TEK]

Hello Hi-Tek,

For the original batch of bullets, I asked the vendor to provide the bullets sized but unlubed. To confirm, are you saying that the actual mechanical act of sizing the bullet seals it even if lube is not used? Out of curiosity, what is causing the surface to seal?


If this is the case, I will need to change my new order of bullets to have them sent straight out of the mold, no sizing or lube. I will also slug my barrel and order a Lee bullet sizing die. A bit more work than expected, but I got a half-liter of Hi-Tek coating so guess I'm committed to finding a solution.


Thanks to you and Ausglock for your help. Stay tuned....


[Reply: How are you doing golfhack.
What seems to happen, is that the crystalline surface produced when casting, after sizing, becomes sealed with metal so the surface is very slick.
In many coating applications, companies recommend chemical etching or sandblasting of surfaces to get good adhesion as it produces a rough finish after etching and or blasting.
In our case, newly cast alloy is good enough to receive coating and bond strongly.]

[leadman]

Sizing a boolit has a burnishing effect on the surface and making the surface extremely smooth. I always cast wanting my boolits to be frosted. This gives me good fillout and a rough surface for the coating to stick to.
The Red Copper will get scraped on the gaschecks sometimes in a sizer, seems to depend on how much I have to size it down.
An example of how much friction a gc creates when firing a gun I had the same 180gr boolit with and without gcs, same load, primers, cases, powder charge, oal, coating, and same gun. The gc'd boolits were 50fps slower across the Chrony.

[Stephen Cohen]

Im glad I could not find a sizer in .375 or I would have sized first. This is a fantastic thread great info.

[golfhack]

Leadman/Hi-Tek,

Thanks - it makes sense, great information. Hope this helps others looking to use Hi-Tek but not yet casting their own bullets. It should be relatively simple for me to source unsized/unlubed bullets since it saves the supplier an extra step. I re-read the threads and it does not appear that my temperature was excessive so I do think it was the burnishing effect from pre-sizing the bullets. I look forward to trying it again as soon as I get my next batch.

[HI-TEK]

The HT Gold sticks to copper checks fine.

There are a few in Aus, that use the Hi-Tek on Jacketed ammo, so the Copper does not foul up barrel.
After shooting bore is clean and no Copper has to be scrubbed out.

[Thompsoncustom]

Hmmm thanks for the info I'll be sure to frost the next batch of bullets I try.

Another Update:

Tired 4.8grs of Unique instead of bulleyes eye with the pure COWW coated bullets and still leading just the same.

Gonna get a oven temp thermometer just so I know exactly what the temp I'm cooking at is. Also gonna switch to the glock 17 from here out just to change platforms. Good news is a got all the coating out of the CZ barrel bad news is there is a small amount of pitting in there, you can't see it by holding it up to a light but it's there none the less. Tho the glock leaded last time to and it's next to brand new and shows to pitting so I'm still completely lost of what the problem might be.

[gunoil]

TC, the brand new lcp i am shooting every day. 50 per day, no leading. I'll check again, but i just brush out. You have a step that is wrong somewhere. You should order a smallest order from your favorite hard cast lead bullets supplier and do 5-1-10 on that. You do have convection oven? That helps, so they reccomend. I stained and cooked around 1200 last nite. Just check all your steps and maybe order some. I am gonna order some unsized/unlubed from my supplier, $58 for 1000, ain't bad. I stain (new word i stole from hi-tek) then size to my die, not his. Sometime if ya mix a extra 1000 in with what you have already cast really helps, I shoot alot. 3 calibers of pistol.

"its shake and bake mama"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sISgevoaTcU
Buy quality equipment, it will be here when your 80.

[gunoil]

TC, the brand new lcp i am shooting every day. 50 per day, no leading. I'll check again, but i just brush out. You have a step that is wrong somewhere. You should order a smallest order from your favorite hard cast lead bullets supplier and do 5-1-10 on that. You do have convection oven? That helps, so they reccomend. I stained and cooked around 1200 last nite. Just check all your steps and maybe order some. I am gonna order some unsized/unlubed from my supplier, $58 for 1000, ain't bad. I stain (new word i stole from hi-tek) then size to my die, not his. Sometime if ya mix a extra 1000 in with what you have already cast really helps, I shoot alot. 3 calibers of pistol.

"its shake and bake mama"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sISgevoaTcU
Buy quality equipment, it will be here when your 80.

[Thompsoncustom]

Never ordered cast bullets before only cast my own and pure WW has never failed me before the coating I could run all day long with no signs of leading in sight I also make my own lube.

I do not have a convection oven (yet) I'm using a gas oven right now but might get a convection if I can get this coating to work.

I agree that it is probably something I'm doing wrong but I've followed everything that Hi-tek and ausglock have recommended with no luck. The shaking half way through seems to get the color to be 90% even. Bullets pass every test minus the one that counts and that's the leading test. 5-1-10 of coating and about 7mls of the mix per 250 9mm bullets.

[Mike Hughes]

Gonna get a oven temp thermometer just so I know exactly what the temp I'm cooking at is.
Walmart has a oven thermometer for 5 or 6 dollars. Seems like oven temp has got to be the problem. Looks like you are doing everything right.

[leadman]

The temperature of the gas oven in our kitchen varies quite a bit. Could be your problem. Hope this oven you are using is not the one in your kitchen.

[Thompsoncustom]

Maybe :twisted: I started outside with a little electric one but I can just do so much more with the Gas inside, It's vented well and you can't even tell i'm cooking bullets.

[Dystaxia]

Is anyone else coating "tumble lubed" bullets with success? I'm trying both 9mm and 45acp and after much experimentation it's still leading my barrel. Here's the details:

100% COWW - (Seemed really soft... BAD BAD BAD leading)

50% COWW/%50 Lino mix - BNH about 15-16.

Coated twice with Red-Copper HT (I've tried 5-1-5, 7-1-5, 8-1-5 ratios, last one seems better.)

I've loaded both types, then pulled them to check for over crimping/shaving, both good.

Running the appropriate amount of "Accurate #2" powder for each.

I'm about ready to ditch the "TL" design and buy some other molds (80 more bux... ugghh.)

8011980120

[Thompsoncustom]

Hmmm That is the same mold I'm running in 9mm but I haven't been able to make it work yet I'm guessing someone has.

[leadman]

Try 5 parts color, 1 part catalyst, 5 to 7 parts acetone. Do 3 coats. Size to .358" if it will slide inside a fired case with no problems. Stay away from max loads with AA#2, start to medium work well. Do the acetone wipe test and hammer test on the first coat.

[Ausglock]

I run the 45 230gr RN TL bullet with 2 coats of red copper or green or gold, or pearl Yellow, or glitter gold or Rose red or fire engine red or or black and they fire fine in my Para single stack.
my mate uses that 9mm bullet in his SVI coated with Green or red copper and it fires fine.

The photo above looks to be coating too thick for only 2 coats.
Do they smash and have zero wipeoff?

If there is small wipeoff of colour, increase your bake time by 2 minutes.
mix 5 colour, 1 catalyst, 10 acetone.

[Dystaxia]

I run the 45 230gr RN TL bullet with 2 coats of red copper or green or gold, or pearl Yellow, or glitter gold or Rose red or fire engine red or or black and they fire fine in my Para single stack.
my mate uses that 9mm bullet in his SVI coated with Green or red copper and it fires fine.

The photo above looks to be coating too thick for only 2 coats.
Do they smash and have zero wipeoff?

If there is small wipeoff of colour, increase your bake time by 2 minutes.
mix 5 colour, 1 catalyst, 10 acetone.

Well, you give me hope then that the molds aren't trash. Now I have a couple of areas to start focusing on.

With the wipe test, I get just a tiny bit of transfer. As for the smash test, when I smash with the hammer it's fine, however, if I scrape the lube grove area with my fingernail after I smash it, the coating will flake but not on the rest of the bullet, so are they getting too hot then?

Thanks for the input and I will be back in a while with the results.

[gunoil]

Maybe :twisted: I started outside with a little electric one but I can just do so much more with the Gas inside, It's vented well and you can't even tell i'm cooking bullets.

Gas inside? iam confused.

Ok third day for lcp, nother 40 today, just ran brush thru 6 times and the lil' plastic brush a few times. Barrel looks like the day i bought it. You should get a convection oven and cook outside.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/CDA3493B-EF51-469D-8B0C-3B4822CCADAC-19482-000015CED3271ED8_zps9973c05a.jpg

OK TWO-alpha bullets will sell 125gr/9mm for 55$dollars unsized/unlubes,, thats for 1000 bullets. Hes out of Iowa.

heres the link:http://www.twoalphabullets.com/

this lead is mix at foundry with correct recipe for hard cast bullets. Hes great with email and phone to. Check out his web site. He is a match shooter and does do hi-tek at matches and can not get his barrel dirty and he will talk to you about what you need to know.

[gunoil]

If members dont want to cast and just want to hi-tek!

http://www.twoalphabullets.com/

1000 projectile 125gr for 55$ unsized/unlubed. Call john, he is a match shooter using hi-tek also.

Yes, he has all calibers.

[HI-TEK]

Leadman/Hi-Tek,

Thanks - it makes sense, great information. Hope this helps others looking to use Hi-Tek but not yet casting their own bullets. It should be relatively simple for me to source unsized/unlubed bullets since it saves the supplier an extra step. I re-read the threads and it does not appear that my temperature was excessive so I do think it was the burnishing effect from pre-sizing the bullets. I look forward to trying it again as soon as I get my next batch.

Just a quick footnote, when you are ordering plain hard cast product, please ask your supplier if he uses any release agent in his casting moulds.
Sometimes, (if used), these type of release agents, will also later interfere with coating bonding to alloy.
What is needed with casting, is a non "wet" type of release agent, that will not transfer to alloy, but release projectile cleanly from moulds.
If you have a talk with Donnie, at Bayou, he can make recommendations about such material.
Your caster may also talk with Donnie about a product called Hi-Tek 500 Plus.
Many, including home casters have found great results with clean release and no problems with coating afterwards.
Hope this helps.

[golfhack]

Just a quick footnote, when you are ordering plain hard cast product, please ask your supplier if he uses any release agent in his casting moulds.
Sometimes, (if used), these type of release agents, will also later interfere with coating bonding to alloy.
What is needed with casting, is a non "wet" type of release agent, that will not transfer to alloy, but release projectile cleanly from moulds.
If you have a talk with Donnie, at Bayou, he can make recommendations about such material.
Your caster may also talk with Donnie about a product called Hi-Tek 500 Plus.
Many, including home casters have found great results with clean release and no problems with coating afterwards.
Hope this helps.


Is there any way to "wash" off these release agents? Just asking cause I have some already coming in and didn't know I needed to ask supplier about this.

[HI-TEK]

Hi,
I suppose, if they have used some sort of release lube during casting, if you find out what they used, I may be able to assist with some way of using the product with solvent wash type system.
Some of these release agent are difficult to remove as they contain various ingredients that may not be soluble in every solvent.
The projectiles may need first, a Turps wash, then and Acetone wash, or, Auto thinner wash, then Acetone wash and drying, & after thorough rinses are done.
Thereafter, you can try to coat just a few, and see how you go.
You may be lucky, and your caster may not have used any mold releases, then, projectiles would be clean, straight out of mold.
This is a problem that has not occurred here for many years, and, commercial casters all know not to use any thing that would interfere with coating.
Some do use the 500plus release agent which is Ok with mold release, and not interfere with coating methods.
Please send me an update as you can about your supplier use of mold release agents.

[Ausglock]

Well, you give me hope then that the molds aren't trash. Now I have a couple of areas to start focusing on.

With the wipe test, I get just a tiny bit of transfer. As for the smash test, when I smash with the hammer it's fine, however, if I scrape the lube grove area with my fingernail after I smash it, the coating will flake but not on the rest of the bullet, so are they getting too hot then?

Thanks for the input and I will be back in a while with the results.

Increase your time by 2 minutes, but leave the temp where it is.
You should have zero wipe off.
If the smash doesn't flake off on the bearing surfaces, then you are good to go. Ignore the lube groove.

I did a bit of testing today. My 38 Super Kimber likes 5-1-10 mix with 2 coats.
A fellow shooter's CZ hates it. His gun likes 5-1-7 mix and 2 coats. His barrel is a bit rougher looking down the bore. He wants to try 5-1-5 mix on the red copper for 2 coats, So I'm going to mix 5-1-5 and coat a few 100 for him to try.

With flat base bullets ( lee 9mm 125gr RN) I am trying 2 coats of green 5-1-10. then size, and then apply a third coat of 5-1-10 just to see what happens. I'll be using the new 3 Extreme Catalyst.

Also going to mix Red/copper 5-1-5 with the 3 Extreme Catalyst just to see how it goes.
The Glitter Bronze is a very nice looking colour. 1/2 way between gold and red. I like it. Should be good for rifles too, as it has a lot of metallic elements.

[Thompsoncustom]

Well according to my new walmart cheap-o thermometer my 400(dial) is closer to 380 real temp but that shouldn't be messing me up should it?

[olaf455]

Well according to my new walmart cheap-o thermometer my 400(dial) is closer to 380 real temp but that shouldn't be messing me up should it?

190c = 374f or so, 380 should work just fine.

[gunoil]

TC, Wouldnt think so. I check mine yesterday with new temp gage, gonna check again. Temp was low yesterday and still no leading. First day i've every had temp gage. I been shootin hitek before i started this 1024# sticky. You'll figure it out. Try to get convection oven at kmart, where i got mine, then it goes on sale. uh-huh! Gotta cook outside, i always will! I have cooked 1 tray in garage, but you hav to leave and then open door. My garage is a/c-heat, so dont want door open. Might buy 500 bullets for round 27$ from john, run a test on that. Your tray is wire?,, so air can circulate thru TC.?? I would use acetone. I dont know, just throwin stuff out. A paycheck or two, iam gonna get some 9mm from john. Link above,on last pg.. Ausglock told me first of thread, let first coat dry 30 mins.. Preheat oven and do sompin else,, my iphone timer tells me when stuffs ready.

[Thompsoncustom]

TC, Wouldnt think so. I check mine yesterday with new temp gage, gonna check again. Temp was low yesterday and still no leading. First day i've every had temp gage. I been shootin hitek before i started this 1024# sticky. You'll figure it out. Try to get convection oven at kmart, where i got mine, then it goes on sale. uh-huh! Gotta cook outside, i always will! I have cooked 1 tray in garage, but you hav to leave and then open door. My garage is a/c-heat, so dont want door open. Might buy 500 bullets for round 27$ from john, run a test on that. Your tray is wire?,, so air can circulate thru TC.?? I would use acetone. I dont know, just throwin stuff out. A paycheck or two, iam gonna get some 9mm from john. Link above,on last pg.. Ausglock told me first of thread, let first coat dry 30 mins.. Preheat oven and do sompin else,, my iphone timer tells me when stuffs ready.


Ya I plan on getting a convection but would like to make sure it's going to work first, I think the upside to the convection is it will be more even and take less time yielding lighter colored bullets.

Yup my tray is made from 1/8 hardware cloth just like the Bayou bullets directions said to use. I'm very happy with the basket don't think I could improve on it much.


I would use acetone Huh?

I've thought about buying bullets but of all the lead I've ever shot none has been bought so far and WW+lube seems to be a proven winner for me tho I pan lube and it just takes so long.

Been Letting the 1st coat air dry for atleast a hour and I always let the oven preheat a minimum of 10mins.


I took the 100ish bullets I have left from this batch and mixed up some coating at a 5-1-5 ratio. Coated and Baked twice so these bullets now have 3 coats at 5-1-10 with about 7mls of coating per layer and 2 coats at 5-1-5 at 4mls per layer. Tho the first coats were for 250ish rounds and the last 2 I only have around 100 so the mls are different.

[Thompsoncustom]

:happy dance:

Ok so the above bulllets seemed to work with no leading thank god for throwing darts at a wall.

I decided to caught the 20 bullets I fired today to see if it would help identify the problem. But the bullets worked so not much help there tho I still think the tumble lube design doesn't agree with the coating very well probably gonna have it machined out once things are running good all the time.

80246

So I'm thinking one of two things. The 5-1-10 is not working for me(unlikely) or what I tumble the bullets in is not vented enough, since I'm using a glass jar I have been taking the lid on and off to get the bullets to setup i'm thinking I need something bigger like a butter tub so I can tumble with no lid and pick up every last bit of coating on the side of the container. 5 coats seems like way to much so I'm guessing I'm not using all of the coats to start with and to much is left over in the glass jar.

[zomby woof]

Today was my first try with HT coating. I cast some 160 .45's yesterday. Today I coated them with 5-1-7 green. I coated them twice. They passes the smash and wipe test. I let them dry to the touch, around 15 minutes. I sized, loaded and fired them tonight. I got pretty bad lead streaking down the barrel and I could smell the coating in the barrel, kind of a paint smell. Is doing all this under 24 hours too soon? I'm thinking of applying another coat after sizing. There was no flaking after sizing two coats.

[Ausglock]

TC. go with 5-1-5 for 2 coats.
You barrel may not like 5-1-10.

When you are making bullets for your own use, who cares what the colour looks like, so long as they are accurate with zero leading.

So, bake them at 195-200 Deg C for 12 minutes and try that with the 5-1-5. This is what I'm going to use for my mates CZ with the red copper coating.

[Ausglock]

Today was my first try with HT coating. I cast some 160 .45's yesterday. Today I coated them with 5-1-7 green. I coated them twice. They passes the smash and wipe test. I let them dry to the touch, around 15 minutes. I sized, loaded and fired them tonight. I got pretty bad lead streaking down the barrel and I could smell the coating in the barrel, kind of a paint smell. Is doing all this under 24 hours too soon? I'm thinking of applying another coat after sizing. There was no flaking after sizing two coats.

ZW.
What alloy are you using? 45 is very forgiving.
try the 3rd coat and see if it makes a difference.
Was there any sign of bare lead around the base of the bullet after sizing?
I have the Lee 228gr RN that will show bare lead after sizing ( only very small amount) and this has caused leading. I applied a 3rd coat and the bullet worked fine. It just adds another step to the process.
I much preffer bevel base bullets for coating.

[zomby woof]

These boolits have a very slight taper. There was no leading after sizing. The alloy is range scrap with WW added. It is not very soft.

[Thompsoncustom]

Ya the above pictured bullets were fired out of the glock 17 I will try to do the same test with the CZ and see if the normal rifling chips more of the coating away. Bullets were fired into wet magazines I tired dry and there wasn't a whole lot of bullet left and than the first two the paper wasn't soaked very good yet.

195c-200c = 383f-392f
So I'm about 3 degrees low but with the chipping that's going on already I would think I would need to go lower if anything. Since chipping in the grooves could pop coating off of the bearing surface I would like to minimize it as much as possible. Removing the grooves seems like the way to go.

[jcobb651]

Has anyone coated less than perfect boolits ie: small wrinkles, poorly formed bases? If so did the coating make up for these imperfections or did it still affect accuracy? The reason I ask is because I have been casting all week and just realized I now have several hours worth of inspecting to do. I was hopong to speed up the process by not having to watch them as close as I normally do when checking for keepers.

[gunoil]

My "custom" mold bullets (cut here in town from a blank NOE) need a lil' make-up, bam,, heres hitek,,, and after sizeing are a replica of a berry's bullet profile on the sides. Super coat/super beautiful.

[Ausglock]

Has anyone coated less than perfect boolits ie: small wrinkles, poorly formed bases? If so did the coating make up for these imperfections or did it still affect accuracy? The reason I ask is because I have been casting all week and just realized I now have several hours worth of inspecting to do. I was hopong to speed up the process by not having to watch them as close as I normally do when checking for keepers.

Small wrinkles are no problem on the nose. but deformed bases will have accuracy issues. The HI_TEK Coating is not body filler. It will not fill holes etc. Try casting with a hotter pot temp and warmer mold.

[gunoil]

TC, are you cooking out side? You never answered, about gas inside. Gas oven inside or what? Ya said ya might spend the money and get new covection oven. Its not your mix. There is no way anyone can cook inside. If anyone cooks inside their family needs to take them to the second floor. Not real healthy to breath that in.

Yea, getting lazy, gonna buy some quality cast 9mm to use also. When my wallet catches up. I'll keep casting the 380's and 45's. Thats enough work there.

[mauser1959]

I cast ww with a Fryxell sticky lube , but want to move into a .277 ( aka 270 Winchester ) , I am dying to see how the performance of the coating does at high velocities . I was looking into expoxy and other other resins for the sake of plating bullets before this , but this might turn out to be the cats meow . It would be nice to see those that shoot rifle calibers and speeds include data in a different area . I Believe that this is on the right track , however am not sure if the product is fully developed for higher rifle speeds . On the upside , just think of taking a BHN of around 8 and making it fit the barrel and shoot in the hyper velocity speeds without going with tutu skirts .

[mauser1959]

As an added bit of information , I was looking into making a frangible round using epoxy resin and metal molecular sized metal fragments , aka Metal dust in a high heat expoxy resin . Some great bullet manufactures were a head of me by years , but the mental exercise was wondrous . I was getting ready to patent a bullet , till I realized that the patent would infringe on someone else s patents ... even if the concept was better . Still looking at a AL jackett , instead of Cu , which would have benefit to re loaders as AL is so reactive and should be hard enough to bear the surface friction of a barrel . And AL is not near as expensive as Cu and once figured out , could provide the same benefits as as (OR CLOSE ) as Cu .

[leadman]

Mauser1959, go back several pages and read my posts on the 30-06 and 223 Rem. Also al jackets have already been done.

[Thompsoncustom]

TC, are you cooking out side? You never answered, about gas inside. Gas oven inside or what? Ya said ya might spend the money and get new covection oven. Its not your mix. There is no way anyone can cook inside. If anyone cooks inside their family needs to take them to the second floor. Not real healthy to breath that in.

Yup inside kitchen over, it's vented very well and you can't even hardly tell I'm cooking boolits and not food but I agree that it's probably best to only cook it when I'm in the house and the family is gone.

Gunoil have you recovered any of the bullets from your custom mold? Kind of want to see how the coating holds up on a no lube groove bullet.

[gunoil]

1)your joking! you cant cook in house oven.

2)no, shot the big phone book at indoor other day with lil' ruger 380. (Oh, Getting a magguts.com for ruger today.) 380's Went rite thru. Well, if the barrel is so clean, spent bullet prob looks good too. 380,bad lil' round.

3) i have CNC contact. If ya do, you can buy used molds and bore out. I started with NOE blank, but next time i may try this idea. Say 9mm to 40 s&w. Maybe small 380 up to 9mm. SPRU plate would remain same.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/EAF1A40F-3778-400D-852F-AF5639BA408A-8304-000008A9B7288297_zps8a5838cc.jpg

4) Or hav em bore out what you got, same dia., or tiny bit deeper to gain some grains. Or shave top to loose grains. Or some always want .01 lil' bigger, just have him add that (cir.) to your mold.

5) above bullet so slick you drop em alot after sizing, its a makarov nose @ 108gr. Flat base. Drops good, ive cast around 1700. New custom mold.

"Its shake an bake mama"

[Ausglock]

Popper.
I have chrono data of 38 Super Major power factor loads with red/copper, green and Rose red coatings. Bullet is Lee 125gr RN Non TL.

Velocity was virtually the same between colours with the same components (5 to 11 FPS for 10 shots each).

The coating on recovered bullets is untouched except for groove marks. Some are that good that you could load them again. If the coating is "wearing off", then it was not applied correctly.
We fire 357Mag and 44 Mag rifles with coated bullets and no gas checks. barrel length of 16 to 20" and the recovered bullets have a full coating and barrels are clean. these loads are full power teeth rattlers, not ***** loads.

Last night, I was going through all the experimental coated bullets. these have been sitting around for over a few months. As I was checking them for wipe off, there were a few that had slight colour wipeoff. These are now ingots again. the rest that passed the wipe and smash are now bagged up ready for use as "Rainbow Bullets".

These experimental colours are very "suck it and see" types. Even HI-TEK is not sure how they will coat and bake. So I am learning via OJT with these new colours. The established colours ( red/copper, green, gold, Black) are easy to use and have no issues as to smash, wipe off and leading when correctly applied.

I fired a bit over 250 rounds of 38 Super on Sunday through the Kimber Stainless Target II and all she needed was a bore snake to clean out powder residue before going back in the safe. She fired 2 coats 5-1-10 of Red/copper Lee 120gr CON at 1100fps avg.
HI-TEK is sending some more experimental colours this week. I better get a few 1000 bullets cast so I got something to coat with the new colours.

[kweidner]

I was getting slight leading with full snot 44 mag with 11 bhn hollow point 255gr keith. Bullet was traveling 1300 out of my 10" smith. Felix lube or coating, this .432 always leaded just a tiny bit. I shot 100 rounds this weekend shooting pears at 100yds. I coated then lubed and zero I mean zero lead. One pass of a bore snake in cylinder and bbl and you could not tell gun was fired. 1332ave is pretty strong with such a soft bullet but doing this coating with lube makes for some pretty awesome accuracy and no clean up. Milk jugs literally split in half.

[Gateway Bullets]

Have to keep it fun!


If members dont want to cast and just want to hi-tek!

http://www.twoalphabullets.com/

1000 projectile 125gr for 55$ unsized/unlubed. Call john, he is a match shooter using hi-tek also.

Yes, he has all calibers.

Gunoil,

John is a good guy! He drove down last week and bought some coating from me! Talk about a good ole boy..... I think we talked for an hour!

[gunoil]

Oh definate yes gateway and you are too. Casting can be a chore and iam glad both of you are around for old and new to purchase their projectiles from. You two widen the choices of molded bullets we have to choose from. Then shake and bake. Everyone cant have time to cast and search for lead, but anyone can hi-tek. Thanks!