"Extreme" boolit lube, The Quest...

[runfiverun]

or just a metal.
i added the moly to the complex for a reason.
it gathers and holds heat in the cold weather,and gives good sealing propertys in the heat.

[Grump]

Yeah, 20% wax would make me happy for probably irrational reasons.

At that level, bees' or synthetic would not matter...but because of the cold-rockhard and melting in the sun problem, isn't there a synthetic wax that stays pliable from about 0°F (or, dream on, -20° to 180°??), for decent handling qualities, no-heat or maybe just 60-watt lightbulb shining on the Lubri-Sizer flow, no melting in the sun, and good first-shot performance?

Sounds like thickening the greases is still resulting in stuff flowing like SPG at all temperatures...

[runfiverun]

i'm watching the ester thing really close.
i'm hoping it acts like antifreeze in a car does.
with it's dual action.

[runfiverun]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=161053
i'm linking the lube viscosity discussion to this one,as it's quite relevant to this.

[popper]

Tested my home made peanut flour and mazzola oil. 250 rns of 175 TC, 4.8 HP-38, 88F 80% humidity. Also tested my home brew poly coating, last 8 shots from XDm. Looked really bad after the poly, but that junk came out with just a dry patch. It was clean looking till the poly. Cleaned the bbl, a little grey dust came out (leading) with Eds REd. Shiny again. Accuracy of both was comparable with the plated rounds I shot from the storm. I'm getting better and the flinch is almost gone. I'll load up many more of the poly go get a good comparison - maybe I'll find a good shooter to compare with.

[Grump]

Pardon the noob question (as far a the esoterica of getting beyond 30 years of NRA formula and a couple thousand bullets cast...),

but

Why does it seem that Lee Liquid Alox is so despised by many here, but used with delight be others?

Next question:

I have tried to search for info on our friend's TAC-1 lube but cannot find a formula (limited search-fu skillz??). That's not too important, I'm probably going to just buy the stuff anyway. MORE importantly, how *does* TAC-1 perform within the goals of this Quest?

If it makes any difference, most of my Boolit use is in handguns, including 125-gr .357s to 1300+ and the H&G 73 146-ish to 1250-1300, BUT there's that .30 Carbine load at 1900 fps.

The 165-ish .30 caliber mold from my Dad is a pointy design that the NRA found in the 1960s(?) to just not do so well above 1400 fps. Nice gas check design though.

Thanks!

[geargnasher]

Pardon the noob question (as far a the esoterica of getting beyond 30 years of NRA formula and a couple thousand bullets cast...),

but

Why does it seem that Lee Liquid Alox is so despised by many here, but used with delight be others? My particular reasons for not liking any of the Alox series as a lube component has been iterated numerous times on this thread. To answer the question more generally, the reason has to do with expectations and skill levels, especially regarding the "tumble lube" iteration of Alox.

Next question:

I have tried to search for info on our friend's TAC-1 lube but cannot find a formula (limited search-fu skillz??). As far as I know, Randyrat has not volunteered the formula exactly, nor do I expect him to. That's not too important, I'm probably going to just buy the stuff anyway. MORE importantly, how *does* TAC-1 perform within the goals of this Quest? I don't believe any of us reporting on this thread have used his lube during the trials, but I have my own reasons for overlooking it due to the climate here and previous tests of very similar lube of my own concerning rifle performance.

If it makes any difference, most of my Boolit use is in handguns, including 125-gr .357s to 1300+ and the H&G 73 146-ish to 1250-1300, BUT there's that .30 Carbine load at 1900 fps. It makes a very big difference. I believe TAC #1 will serve you very well.

The 165-ish .30 caliber mold from my Dad is a pointy design that the NRA found in the 1960s(?) to just not do so well above 1400 fps. Nice gas check design though.

Thanks!

Gear.

[Beagle333]

TAC#1 has worked great for me in my .357 revolver. I like the stuff!

(I can't give you a range of weights and velocities, because I use it for everything! )

[H.Callahan]

Au contraire mon Gear, Randyrat, in yet another grand gesture, just posted the recipe to TAC#1 and TAC Soft in this post: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...6&postcount=14

Yes here is the recipes= TAC#1
12 ounces beeswax ( processed by fat virgin Norwegian maidens only)
4 ounces of ZIP lube
1 ounce of carnauba wax

TAC soft=
12 ounces of "fat virgin Norwegian maiden Beeswax"
4 ounces of Zip lube

I personally applaud RR for releasing this information. Way to go, Randy!

[Eutectic]

Miss Ivory Ester

Seems this thread has been pretty quiet... That doesn't mean a couple of us are NOT still working though!

I modified my original 'Ivory Ester' to 25% Motul 800 2T ester, 9% Ivory, 9% Alox 350, 54% Beeswax, and 3% Carnauba flakes. These are all by weight to make the mix repeatable. (Most of these Ivory Ester mixes are pretty good, so my samples are made so I can repeat them later..) The Ivory soap is finely grated and well dehydrated. 9% is A LOT for 25% ester! This lube is accurate in several guns and calibers. It seems ever so more sensitive to cold starts but almost always puts the next round into the group. It tends on the peppier loads to 'dry out' the last four inches or so of the barrel and drags a little antimonial wash. This in itself is probably not too bad.... But I've looked at enough engines (including 2 strokes) that it strikes me as the 'oil' is gone.... Like Gear, I believe the ester 2 stroke oil actually burns up in our lube hence the fouling and smoke being so minimal. THIS CAN BE BOTH GOOD AND BAD! So I tweaked my mix.

26.5% ester, 8.2% Ivory, 8.2% Alox 350, 54% Beeswax, and 3% Carnauba. Good Results mirrored the above mix for performance and the muzzle streaks disappeared.

Gear works on me continually to get the Alox 350 out! S O O O O , I make a three part mix that was 32% Motul 800 2T ester, My oil weights are 'raw'... By this I mean out of the bottle. The oil will concentrate. or reduce some as you 'cook' in the Ivory flakes at higher heat as the first step) 7% Ivory, and 61% Beeswax. This was my cleanest shooting Ivory Ester yet! Maybe even Too clean... HUH??? Groups in four guns, three calibers, and four boolit types open up in group size. Not a lot but it was there consistently...

Even though Gear hates it I add the Alox 350 not only as a wetting agent but to put some 'garbage' in the fouling! I will use it until Gear discovers a better 'garbage'! Soooo....... Round four.

32% Motul 800 2T ester, 7.5% Ivory, 7.5% Alox 350, 50% Beeswax, and 3% Carnauba. This is pretty thin viscosity wise, yet melt point is still higher than my BAC... I left the vicosity alone as it seemed to scream at me... "You'll like me when winter comes!"

I am really liking this 'thin' one even in summer though! I tested it in the rough barreled Model 92 .38-40. The first four rounds from a clean barrel at 50 yards were as following: Clean barrel shot 5/8" low, 2nd shot 1/2" higher, shot 3 and 4 touching round 2! They continue to stay touching... It never ceases to amaze me when I look at the groups this old gun can still shoot! People wonder why I shoot tests in this old slightly pitted .38-40... Some say I should get a new barrel? I test a new lube in this gun in particular to make sure the lube is not too slick. (Like my third formula listed above) If it is Too slick this ol' .38-40 will spit it out! (Larger groups)

Three guns have the newest Ivory Ester (alias 'The Thin One') ready to test. I'll report results in the future....

Eutectic

[leftiye]

Where can one get the motul 800 2T, and a topnotch 2stroke synthetic oil? Also, I'd like to play with carnauba and synthetic (aforementioned 2 stroke oil?) premixed, then maybe added to some lithi bee.

[Eutectic]

Where can one get the motul 800 2T, and a topnotch 2stroke synthetic oil? Also, I'd like to play with carnauba and synthetic (aforementioned 2 stroke oil?) premixed, then maybe added to some lithi bee.

I got my Motul 800 2T (which is a topnotch ester synthetic 2 stroke oil) from Rocky Mountain ATV for about $13 a liter. They are right there... down in your neck of the woods. (Salt Lake area)

Eutectic

[utk]

Eutectic:

Is it the Motul 800 2T "Off Road" variety you are using? Or the "Racing" type?

UTK

[geargnasher]

Thanks for humoring me with the Alox-less version, Eutectic.

I noticed, when I left out the Ivory and used just BW and Redline or AC ester oil I always got the dry wash in the last few inches of the barrel, so I can sure confirm that one. It goes away when the soap is added.

Your tests with the other three guns will have much to tell, I was wondering if your large increase in ester oil in the alox-less version might have opened the groups?

Also, you did didn't put any Carnauba in the alox-less lube? That could throw things off too.

I know, I know, seems like I'm going to hound you until you give it up, but not so! Like you, I'm interested in what works, whatever it is.

One thing seems to be apparent with the ester oils, the percentage of oil and soap makes a big difference, which makes the lube formula quite tricky. Shows a LOT of promise, though.

Gear

[Eutectic]

Eutectic:

Is it the Motul 800 2T "Off Road" variety you are using? Or the "Racing" type?

UTK

I am using the "Off Road" because I saw the viscosity was thinner than the "Racing". I kind of wish I had both "Off Road" and "Racing" to compare though!

Eutectic

[Eutectic]

Your tests with the other three guns will have much to tell, I was wondering if your large increase in ester oil in the alox-less version might have opened the groups?

Also, you did didn't put any Carnauba in the alox-less lube? That could throw things off too.


Gear

It's possible the oil increase opened the groups.... But I'm at the same oil percentage with "The Thin One" now... But more testing is need before I'll make a positive statement on my last formula. I like the higher oil content so far but that could change.

I was thinking 'simple was better' when I cut the test to three components. The bores were as bright as if Carnauba was present! And clean as I said. And slick...

I do think ester/Ivory balance (percentages) are critical though as you mentioned. Maybe winter will change this again or it could be used to our advantage even.

Kind of like shuffleboard too with the bore needing the 'dusting' just so!

Eutectic

[runfiverun]

a bit of lube friction helps.

[Marlin Junky]

Anyone know where I can get a sample of these fluids (they're mentioned in the attachment below):

MJ

[runfiverun]

i'd try calling thier area reps.
that guy in slc would be your closest.
failing that i'd try lubriplate themselves.
i see where your going though.

[Marlin Junky]

I dunno, sounds like the stuff might make a better sprue plate lube than a boolit lube. Here's some info from Lubriplate:

http://www.lubriplate.com/products/s...mp-fluids.html

MJ

P.S. Then again, if it gets in the mold cavities, might it create a problem?? I know a little Bull Plate in the mold cavities doesn't ruin a casting session, so.... never mind.