Lube viscosity

[Marlin Junky]

How stiff does boolit lube need to be to work well at 20K PSI? About like Vaseline at room temp, or stiffer? If your wife's Vaseline under the bathroom sink at room temp is a 1 (ONE) on a scale of stiffness from one to ten, and a block of Beeswax, at room temp, is a 10 (TEN), where should a 20K PSI lube be located on that scale? Is there a better way to measure lube viscosity that a hobbyist can perform?

MJ

[geargnasher]

About a three at room temp. NRA 50/50 is about a seven.

Gear

[Marlin Junky]

Thanks Gear, I knew I could count on you for input.

I'm not sure I've ever purchased or even used NRA 50/50. I've purchased lots of Javelina though... is that equivalent to NRA 50/50?

MJ

[fryboy]

yeah pretty much so ,some company's 50/50 may be a lil softer or harder than anothers and this can vary from batch to batch a bit

[leftiye]

Does it really matter? Can someone please say why? Other than being thick enough to flow through a lubrisizer, and not be runny, why would it matter at all? So long as it is the right stuff to perform when it gets on the barrel that is. Lossa theories about how and why it gets on the barrel exist, but lube seems to do so. Remington tri flow oil succeeds admirably on a clean (brushed and wiped) bore as a lube, you jus' gotta brush, wipe and apply for each shot. Yup, experience. Not that I am actually advocating this (I know about the teflon....) at all, just sayin'.... If an oil could be put on the barrel and not have too much, and assuming that the oil wasn't lacking in some way, would the thickness matter? It might even purge and not affect accuracy, ?? Certainly preferable to hard crud deposits? Eh?

Not to argue at all that oil is the best thing to put on your bore, it's about the viscosity. If whatever the ultimate lube were to end up being was applied to the bore, would the viscosity matter?

[Marlin Junky]

Does it really matter? Can someone please say why?

The lube needs to be "pumped" into the land/groove interface (corners in the barrel) by the pressure behind the alloy in its elastic state.

MJ

[popper]

Marlin Junky Closest method for a solid lube is to apply pressure to push it through a hole and record pressure to get a measured amount to pass through(like a lubrisizer). For liquid the pressure is from gravity and the result is drops/minute. Like leftiye says. Now about accuracy and junk in the bore - I don't think viscosity has a lot to do with it. For 2 10 shot strings I got 1" vertical stringing @ 50 using just oil (30-30). Carnuba screwed it up. I'm trying to find some 80-90 mesh (.007-.003") peanut flower for carrier. It should absorb the oil( ~3%) and provide a 'plug/scraper' like COW, which doesn't work, grain size is too large and it doesn't absorb oil very well. I tried 2 stroke oil and got leading in the first 2 shots. The canola oil doesn't smoke but fogs pretty good. I also get a lot of blow-back from the oil which isn't a problem, just means not all is going down the bbl.

[Marlin Junky]

Marlin Junky Closest method for a solid lube is to apply pressure to push it through a hole and record pressure to get a measured amount to pass through(like a lubrisizer).

Exactly, unfortunately one cannot tell when the lube starts to flow into the boolit's lube grooves when using something like a Lyman 450... need a 450 with a glass viewing port.



MJ

[popper]

How about one of those small grease guns? A syringe won't take over 60 psi before the seals give up. I doubt if you really have to measure the 'moved' quantity, just the pressure where it moves. A sizer insert with a single small hole? Could you see the lube? Not sure how you would correlate the pressure you get with what pressures the CB exerts, but it could give a standard for what your gun likes.

[runfiverun]

now y'all know why i give the air pressure on my stars when discussing the lubes on the quest thread.
and try to keep my shop in the 60-70-f. range.
you know where my lubes fall on the scale as the ones i sent are pretty typical of all of them.

[leftiye]

How about one of those small grease guns? A syringe won't take over 60 psi before the seals give up. I doubt if you really have to measure the 'moved' quantity, just the pressure where it moves. A sizer insert with a single small hole? Could you see the lube? Not sure how you would correlate the pressure you get with what pressures the CB exerts, but it could give a standard for what your gun likes.

One could drill/tap and attach pressure gauge to a Lyman or RCBS (hint pour the gauge's tube full of oil before attaching) and you mayn't need to see it flow, when it stops getting the grooves full, it'll tell you. If anybody cared, that is. I like 'em to be just a little harder than heavy grease, enough that they don't move around when you're not looking. That's the important part, how you like 'em.

[geargnasher]

OR, a person could mix a certain lube formula to a variety of room-temp viscosities and see for themselves how much difference it makes, no? Such experimentation ends a lot of arguments with oneself, unfortunately not so much with everyone else.

Gear

[fredj338]

Who really cares about the exact flow rate of a given lube? In my Star, apply enough pressure to get the lube to flow then go. If it's too much, back off the pressure. Some hwo I think it's being over thought.

[geargnasher]

Who really cares about the exact flow rate of a given lube? In my Star, apply enough pressure to get the lube to flow then go. If it's too much, back off the pressure. Some hwo I think it's being over thought.

Those of us who have discovered when and where it matters are pretty fanatical about flow rate of lube. Flow rate matters in the gun, not in the sizer. Runfiverun uses sizer flow pressure as a standard indicator of viscosity, a reference point for lube performance in the gun.

Gear

[leftiye]

That's why I posted here. To find out. Don't keep it to yourself, interested people want to know. I do have to admit,it really does escape me though.

[geargnasher]

Some things one must see for oneself.

Gear

[runfiverun]

the viscosity of a lube has about as much importance as it's make-up.
both gear and i have tested out a lubes viscosity going thicker and thinner chasing temperature up and down and shooting it showing the first shot and long shot strings.
comparing them to lower and higher visc lubes over the same temp range.
in fact i spent most [okay all] of the nevada cast boolit shoot running small lots of different visc lubes made from the same ingredients in high temp [98-102-f]
and have blown groups on purpose [and at random so the test was blind] just by adding extra lube to the boolits and by changing the lubes viscosity.
in fact i have about 250 more of these to try in other temperatures to see if it carry's across the temp range.

[geargnasher]

The problem here is most people have never played with the proportions of a basic set of ingredients to see what difference it makes, in what guns, with what boolit designs, and at what temperatures, so they don't know that it matters. Trying to quantify this phenom for those who haven't even discovered it yet is impossible.

All I can say is make a batch of Felix lube and start playing with the lubricating ingredient proportions at different ambient and barrel temperatures and different pressures and velocities. Felix's formula is a good one to use to learn about these things.

Gear

[Recluse]

the viscosity of a lube has about as much importance as it's make-up.

This should be a friggin' billboard on the Lube Forum. It's definitely one of the Great Truths of boolit lubes.

[btroj]

I decided that to avoid all lune issues I am only going to shoot one cartridge, in one gun, with one load, between 60 and 70 degrees. Only on sunny days too.

I sure will miss the other guns and loads. I will miss having more than 5 or 10 days when I can shoot too.

With the bit of sarcasm out of the way- do you guys think what is used to alter the viscosity matters as much as the end result? Is Vaseline added to Felix going to be better or worse than ATF if the final viscosity is similar?