simple Hi-Tek coating

[Ausglock]

Tested 1st coat of a new Blue mix last night... Must say that it looks like the Old boy has hit the jackpot.
Will see how the second coat bakes tonight.
Over winter, we had humidity down to 8% but temp was still 15Deg C. Bloody dry spell is killing everything.

[Tazza]

Good to hear the new blue looks good, i'll have to pre-order some off him :)

Never checked the humidity further north of you, but was pretty dry up here, still no bloody rain here either, nothing serious due till early 2020, or so they say. Everything that used to be green is now brown.

We went from winter to summer up here, no spring was in sight, not looking forward to summer this ear, not at all.

[Gatch]

I loaded and shot 50 cast 130gr 9mm. The leading in my barrel cleaned up significantly after washing the bullets in hcl before coating and baking. Definitely a massive improvement since my last test session. There is still a tiny bit of lead in the rifling grooves, and some slight residue right at the start of the rifling. Though I'm not sure if it was lead or not. It wiped out with a wet patch.

As an aside, do properly hitek coated/sized/loaded bullets smoke much when fired? In comparison to jacketed?

[Ausglock]

I loaded and shot 50 cast 130gr 9mm. The leading in my barrel cleaned up significantly after washing the bullets in hcl before coating and baking. Definitely a massive improvement since my last test session. There is still a tiny bit of lead in the rifling grooves, and some slight residue right at the start of the rifling. Though I'm not sure if it was lead or not. It wiped out with a wet patch.

As an aside, do properly hitek coated/sized/loaded bullets smoke much when fired? In comparison to jacketed?

The amount of smoke will depend on your powder. Fast powder like AP-50 will give a bit of smoke. A slow powder like AP-100 will give a lot. Barrel length, comp ports etc etc all have a bearing on smoke. If the coating has failed during transition down the barrel, there will be more smoke as well.
Give you an idea....My Trubor Open Gun fired around 320 rounds at the Grafton IPSC match a few weeks ago. 1 patch wet with Hoppes was pushed down the barrel. followed by a dry patch. Only thing on the wet patch was powder fouling. Internal of the barrel is mirror bright. Even the Comp ports are clean. That was running a 125gn SWC with 2 coats of Kryptonite green sized .3565" in a .355" bore.
Velocity was around 1350 fps. in 38 Supercomp.

[Tazza]

Glad your getting good results now, was the acid bath on the lead from norhtern smelters? as it should have been good to go without.

Honestly, i don't notice a whole lot of smoke, nothing like people that are shooting lubed lead. I feel that most of the smoke we get is the powder, not the coatings. I use AP70, it's not a really clean burning powder, yet my loads are not sedate, so it will burn most of it up.

[Gatch]

I used 4.1gr of hodgdon universal. I was using ap70 before that. I only asked because some seemed to smoke more than others.

Yes this was foundry lead I tried. I'm yet to try foundry without acid washing, or scrap lead with the acid wash. I'm in the process if purchasing a new house (where I will have my own shed/workshop!) so haven't had a lot of time to shoot. It'll be all go once we've moved.

[Tazza]

Good luck on the move, i'm still in the process of doing up my old house to put on the market, so i know what it's like to have zero free time to play.

Hopefully you can get your scrap lead to work well with hi-tek, that's what i use, and have no bonding issues, so it can be done :)

[Avenger442]

We will get here again soon enough.
249165

[Tazza]

We will get here again soon enough.
249165

hehe that is so true, we complain when it's hot, we complain when it's cold, there is just no pleasing us some times :)

[popper]

https://pilgaardelements.com/Niobium/Reactions.htm
Don't know what you got in your alloys down there, About all HCL will do is remove oxidation.

[wlkjr]

I put about 200 or so bullets in a plastic coffee can and pour in some acetone and shake them for a few seconds. Then drain the acetone and pour out the bullets onto one of my cooking trays with a fan blowing over them for about 5 minutes. That seems to remove any oils or contamination I might have gotten from the casting process. I'm using a Master Caster.

[HI-TEK]

https://pilgaardelements.com/Niobium/Reactions.htm
Don't know what you got in your alloys down there, About all HCL will do is remove oxidation.

You are correct, but HCl will also remove all metals on surface that are interfering with adhesion such as Zinc, Aluminium, Magnesium and leave a porous surface that will produce excellent results afterwards. Main reason for Acid wash, is to allow users to use "mystery " composition alloys that are giving problems with bonding.

[popper]

Ammonia/vinegar is cheaper! No matter what you use, dispose of waste liquid properly.

[Petander]

Ammonia/vinegar is cheaper! No matter what you use, dispose of waste liquid properly.

Vinegar reacts with lead. We only want the impurities out,not dissolve the bullets.

Here is how my ww/mono boolits in HCL look,after being soaked overnight :

249238.

The dark,soaked ones coat perfectly,the bright fresh cast won't cure/adhere properly. Coating will flake. I have some Nb and Cu in there, got it XRF:d.

My contaminant comes from monotype that I mixed with ww, made a ton of ready-to-use mixed alloy some 20 years ago.

My other alloys like 22/j-bullet "range scrap" coat normally and don't react with HCL.

[Ausglock]

Latest variant of the Hitek Blue.
This one's a keeper....
https://i.imgur.com/f0kGmR1.jpg

[HI-TEK]

Latest variant of the Hitek Blue.
This one's a keeper....
https://i.imgur.com/f0kGmR1.jpg


Now they are pretty. It has been a long battle but now it is won.

[Avenger442]

Congratulations Joe. Know you have worked long and hard to accomplish this blue. Have you given orange another shot?

Trevor
Is this the lower temp bake you were talking about? And how was the wipe test, little color on the rag or clean?

[Ausglock]

Congratulations Joe. Know you have worked long and hard to accomplish this blue. Have you given orange another shot?

Trevor
Is this the lower temp bake you were talking about? And how was the wipe test, little color on the rag or clean?

This was baked at 195Deg C. I have been using this temp for everything, the last week and all coatings are passing the tests.
The blue passes all tests as well. Zero colour on the paper towel. I have fired previous blues out of the Racegun at 1350fps with clean bore. So I see no reason this blue would be different. But I have 125gn Conicals coating today with this blue to fire next weekend.

The orange actually went a caramel colour. even at lower temp.

[slide]

:awesome: Way to go Joe!!!!!!!

[Stephen Cohen]

It is a very nice blue and a shame Joe didn't invent it all those years ago when the dreaded Blue Hawks were leading barrels. Another great product from a great Aussie. Regards Stephen

[Tazza]

It is a very nice blue and a shame Joe didn't invent it all those years ago when the dreaded Blue Hawks were leading barrels. Another great product from a great Aussie. Regards Stephen

The bluehawkes looked awesome, but they sure did get a bad name like most of their line :(

[Burnt Fingers]

Let's get 50 kg of that blue powder up to the US!

[Burnt Fingers]

I'd buy a seven ounce jar of a blue. I just wanted enough for everyone.

[kevin c]

Is the new blue a metallic? It's great looking!

Either way, I'll be checking the HPBC website regularly to see if/when it's available (I'd take a 15 oz jar).

[Ausglock]

Is the new blue a metallic? It's great looking!

Either way, I'll be checking the HPBC website regularly to see if/when it's available (I'd take a 15 oz jar).

It is not metallic like the Bronze 500, Red copper, Kryptonite green or Gold 1035.

[Michael J. Spangler]

It is not metallic like the Bronze 500, Red copper, Kryptonite green or Gold 1035.

A better questions is, could it be metallic?

[Tazza]

A better questions is, could it be metallic?

Poor Joe, yet another project for him to tear even more hair out developing?

[Michael J. Spangler]

Poor Joe, yet another project for him to tear even more hair out developing?


Oh it can't be that hard :kidding:
We all know he just goes to the craft store and buys all the glitter they have and mixes it up in big batches.

I wonder how this blue would look when mixed up with some zombie green or something?

[Tazza]

Oh it can't be that hard :kidding:
We all know he just goes to the craft store and buys all the glitter they have and mixes it up in big batches.

I wonder how this blue would look when mixed up with some zombie green or something?

I think you're on a winner, just add glitter. I can just see Joe twitching reading this thinking we are all heathens for mentioning adding glitter :)

[HI-TEK]

A better questions is, could it be metallic?

To satisfy all who want glitter, the latest tweaked version is one better. This one contains Pearlescent Glitter. (not from craft shop, they don't carry it...lol) It is visible in outdoor daylight through the Blue. The proof of the pudding, will be the strenuous testing that will be carried out by all who try it.
I have made a few kilos at this stage and I am waiting for bulk stocks to arrive, before being able to send some to Donnie. This should occur within 2-3 weeks. I suppose, Donnie will place orders according to how much is pre-ordered. Keep in touch with Donnie, best scenario.

[Michael J. Spangler]

To satisfy all who want glitter, the latest tweaked version is one better. This one contains Pearlescent Glitter. (not from craft shop, they don't carry it...lol) It is visible in outdoor daylight through the Blue. The proof of the pudding, will be the strenuous testing that will be carried out by all who try it.
I have made a few kilos at this stage and I am waiting for bulk stocks to arrive, before being able to send some to Donnie. This should occur within 2-3 weeks. I suppose, Donnie will place orders according to how much is pre-ordered. Keep in touch with Donnie, best scenario.

Sounds great.
I just ordered some mold release, I guess I need to place another order now.

[Burnt Fingers]

Now all Donnie needs is a way to let us place pre-orders.

How are the other new colors coming?

[Ausglock]

How are the other new colors coming?

There are new Caramel, Primrose red, The old Rose red redone as a powder.
I still have a Grey (Gray) and a metallic Black to test.

[kevin c]

Should have asked up front: the new colors, including the new blue, are powders, right?

[Stephen Cohen]

I used to wonder why Joe bothered with all these colours when any one of them would suffice, but I think that he needs a challenge and trying to improve an already brilliant product would be a waste of time. I got a text message from a mate I gave some 500gr Lee cast to and he recons my cast and load data was perfect in his 458 WM. Keep up the good work Joe you make me look good. Regards Stephen

[Tazza]

Gotta keep his grey matter working.

Most of the time, people don't care what colour you use, yet it's nice to have something different so when people see them they ask who made them. If it's regular black they just assume the usual shops. Trevor is known for his green, i generally just use black, i have been using red 122 for a western action guy as he wanted "different" so that's fair enough

They all slide out the barrel the same, but we all want different.

[HI-TEK]

Stephen & Tazza,
What is driving the colours and improvements is the consumer. Most want their own colour to identify them with a specific coloured coated projectile. Some want coated cast in various sized diameter and an identifying colour for that sized diameter, so that they can identify correct product for end uses.
This Hi-Tek coating, has evolved, and improved significantly over years, based on demands being required by customers.
Because of the huge number of manufacturers, small and large, as well as hobbyists in various output capacity, having many colour options available, satisfies these folk as well.
As I said a long time ago, I should have been like Mr Ford, who said that customer can have any colour they like as long as it is Black. Now with cars, (Including Ford), you virtually can buy many different coloured ones, and also custom colours, and, sticking to one colour, this would have significantly set back technical development and variety now available.
The Blue was a huge and most difficult challenge. No one could help as the coatings are unique, and no outside help was available, as no one had the technical knowledge to overcome the difficulty of stabilising the Blue colour in the coating system. It simply took many many hours days, weeks and months to do tests which failed over and over, until a radical change in direction was adopted.
Then, suddenly, we saw a hint of success. The trail then led onto new areas, from where we eventually got success.
Unfortunately it is very similar to other most difficult colours such as the Pinks. There is work being done, but so far no hint of a break through even though we had initially expected some progress.

[Tazza]

I never even considered the idea of colours for different sizing diameters, that is an awesome idea. If a label was to fall off the packet, you still know what it is from the colour. I may have to give this a go....

[Michael J. Spangler]

I haven’t color coded sizes but I have color coded alloys before.
It’s awesome when I coat 130 grain bullets for 9 and 38. I size them differently so I can always tell them apart with a mic but it’s quicker to use colors.
Same for 38/357 loads that are the same diameter. Quick ID is nice.

[Tazza]

Or different colour for hot and cold loads.

I used to mark my .45 cases with red for my hot loads and black for my regular paper punching ones, colour coding the projectiles is a nice way to do it too.

[wlkjr]

I color code according to load rather than size. My .45acp needs half a grain more for G21 than the 30S. My wife's G19 needs .2 grain more than what I shoot in my G26. So I mostly coat in black or red, although I have bronze and greens also.

[Ausglock]

We have a few Husbands and Wife duo's that both shoot 125gn Conicals in Race guns.
They buy 10,000 at a time. We coat 1/2 in Green and the other 1/2 in either Bronze 500 or Red 122.
The last order for them. I did 1/2 in Blue.

[Burnt Fingers]

Metallic black would look awesome!

I like all the colors because I like variety. I've got every color available in the US. I can't wait for the blue to get here!

[kevin c]

We have a few Husbands and Wife duo's that both shoot 125gn Conicals in Race guns.
They buy 10,000 at a time. We coat 1/2 in Green and the other 1/2 in either Bronze 500 or Red 122.
The last order for them. I did 1/2 in Blue.
Different loads in the same chambering, a his and hers thing, or both?

[Ausglock]

Different loads in the same chambering, a his and hers thing, or both?

Yep. Different loads with the same bullet. One run 38 Super, the other runs 38 Supercomp.

[HI-TEK]

Metallic black would look awesome!

I like all the colors because I like variety. I've got every color available in the US. I can't wait for the blue to get here!

Burnt Fingers
There are a couple of prospects for Metallic Blacks.
One is Texas Tea, which is a Black with Gold metallic appearance giving a Brownish black gold overall look. Donnie has this one.
The other ones are Black Pearl, which is under test, and another which is Black Silver Pearl which is also under test.
The Blue sample is now in US, being tested. There is only a small amount there, so I doubt that Donnie can satisfy all who want it now.
A shipment is due to be sent within next two or three weeks, and that should have some Blue as well.
When it arrives, it is first in, best dressed. Donnie is now taking orders, before shipment arrives.

[Ausglock]

Fired the new TRU BLU today out of the STI TruBor 38 Supercomp and the CZ SP-01 Shadow 9mm.
Nothing to report. Both guns are mirror clean in the bores.
TRU BLU is great. and looks fantastic in the daylight.

[HI-TEK]

Fired the new TRU BLU today out of the STI TruBor 38 Supercomp and the CZ SP-01 Shadow 9mm.
Nothing to report. Both guns are mirror clean in the bores.
TRU BLU is great. and looks fantastic in the daylight.

That is Great news.
What sort of speeds you recon you reached?

[Ausglock]

That is Great news.
What sort of speeds you recon you reached?

the 38 Supercomp chronos at 1350 FPS.
the 9mm chronos at 980 FPS

[HI-TEK]

the 38 Supercomp chronos at 1350 FPS.
the 9mm chronos at 980 FPS

That is a good speed range difference for comparison, where it works OK.

[kevin c]

...A shipment is due to be sent within next two or three weeks...When it arrives, it is first in, best dressed. Donnie is now taking orders, before shipment arrives.
I don't see the blue (Tru Blu?) yet in the color options on Donnie's site.

Is it the glitter that makes the blue color lighter?

[Ausglock]

I don't see the blue (Tru Blu?) yet in the color options on Donnie's site.

Is it the glitter that makes the blue color lighter?

yeah.....sorta.....nahhh

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=kevin c;4743946]I don't see the blue (Tru Blu?) yet in the color options on Donnie's site.


Donnie has had the test sample, only arrive in last couple of days into USA, hardly had time to test, and set up a new colour on his website.
Ausglock's test that just got posted, were done in AUS, and Donnie's tests will be in USA when he finishes his tests.
If all goes well, the new Tru-Blu may become inserted into US website.

[kevin c]

So...

"Patience, grasshopper..." ;^]

[Stephen Cohen]

the 38 Supercomp chronos at 1350 FPS.
the 9mm chronos at 980 FPS

Those kind of velocities in the old wax and snail snot days would almost certainly have leaded the barrel. 1,978fps from 460 SW no leading. I don't need a kick in the but to know when I am on a good thing. Regards Stephen

[Gremlin460]

That is Great news.
What sort of speeds you recon you reached?

More importantly, need to know if he actually managed to hit anything he aimed at, This time?

[Tazza]

more importantly, need to know if he actually managed to hit anything he aimed at, this time?

ooh burn :)

[Ausglock]

More importantly, need to know if he actually managed to hit anything he aimed at, This time?

Grem, you old Pommy Mongrel... Our range doesn't have overhead baffles, so I couldn't shoot them up like the ones at the Gold Coast.

Managed to punch a heap of 2 Alphas in evil Jihadi cardboard....derka derka derka......lol

[slide]

I wanted to let all you guys know that Donnie will be going into the hospital to repair the mitral valve in his heart. From what he told me it is sticking. Please pray for him and his family as they go through this.

[kevin c]

The trublu can wait. Best thoughts, wishes and prayers to Donnie and his family sent.

[Ausglock]

Hope all goes well with the Op, Donnie.

[Petander]

Those kind of velocities in the old wax and snail snot days would almost certainly have leaded the barrel. 1,978fps from 460 SW no leading. I don't need a kick in the but to know when I am on a good thing. Regards Stephen

Very good. Gas check or not?

I'm still amazed at RCBS 325 grn 45-70 @1900 fps,no gas check needed. 500 S&W 305 grn@1600 fps 3" barrel, no gas check plain base. Just Hi Tek. That 500 load is pretty high pressure...

[Avenger442]

Woops! Messed up. We have been out of town and I sent Donnie an email on the blues before I read this page.

Hope everything goes well Donnie. Will pray it does and for quick recovery.

Been having some atrial fib myself. Went through the whole Doctor thing. But it looks like God is giving me some grace. It seems to be clearing up on it's own.

[Petander]

Yeah,best wishes for Donnie from here,too. Always good to be on time with these.

Docs are good today,I'm an AtFib as well,have a stent,a bad valve,veins all screwed up and I have the whole heart medication cocktail. I had the weirdest stroke,in the lab they thought that an EKG wire was broken. "This print is too funny,you can go see a doc if you want."

So I didn't drive home, walked upstairs instead and was ambulanced to a hospital for a stent ASAP. I was actually on my way to the woods to take apples to the whitetails where I had cameras. Someone called it "a ladies' stroke".

Anyway,I'm a lucky one and I feel they will get Donnie repaired like they repaired me three years ago.

Prayers included.

[HI-TEK]

Yeah,best wishes for Donnie from here,too. Always good to be on time with these.

Docs are good today,I'm an AtFib as well,have a stent,a bad valve,veins all screwed up and I have the whole heart medication cocktail. I had the weirdest stroke,in the lab they thought that an EKG wire was broken. "This print is too funny,you can go see a doc if you want."

So I didn't drive home, walked upstairs instead and was ambulanced to a hospital for a stent ASAP. I was actually on my way to the woods to take apples to the whitetails where I had cameras. Someone called it "a ladies' stroke".

Anyway,I'm a lucky one and I feel they will get Donnie repaired like they repaired me three years ago.

Prayers included.


All prayers worked.
I have received communications, that all went well with Donnie and operation.
I am glad, and hope for a speedy recovery. I hope that he does not over do things, and let body recover.

[slide]

That is great news!

[Stephen Cohen]

Very good. Gas check or not?

I'm still amazed at RCBS 325 grn 45-70 @1900 fps,no gas check needed. 500 S&W 305 grn@1600 fps 3" barrel, no gas check plain base. Just Hi Tek. That 500 load is pretty high pressure...

The velocity of 1,978 average in 460SW was with a plain base cast and outstanding accuracy. I am considering making a 460 SW on an old Martini Enfield action I have. The only cal I find a gas check to be useful is in my 458 WM and that is only because it shoots better with a check. I have done considerable testing with the larger bore rifles and find Hi-Tek and cast to be the equal or better than jacketed, in fact I intend to use Hi-Tek cast on my Buff hunt next year. Regards Stephen

[Petander]

Thanks,Stephen.

I'm also more into big bore cast. Discovering Hi Tek actually got me back to casting... and it's becoming more and more fun,I'm addicted to accuracy and now it is here.

I sold my Marlin because of 3" cast groups. Now I have a new one shooting many cast bullets under 1" and I'm very happy. Heck I shoot 300 WM 1" @ 300 meters and 22LR 1" @100 so...

Not a big bore but I might try a 357 silhuette style now that there's no lead danger. Lots of classic,old,sometimes good revolvers for sale, silhuette is out of fashion.

[Stephen Cohen]

I agree Petander, Hi-Tek has made the whole process of casting a joy. I remember when this thread first started there was a lot of negativity from certain circles but Joe stuck it out. Regards Stephen

[Tazza]

I agree Petander, Hi-Tek has made the whole process of casting a joy. I remember when this thread first started there was a lot of negativity from certain circles but Joe stuck it out. Regards Stephen

There are and always will be people that complain about hi-tek, they either don't follow the instructions or are just too set in their ways to change over their process to make it work. It's proven to work, and work well.

The way i figure, if i can make it work, anyone can!

[Stephen Cohen]

There are and always will be people that complain about hi-tek, they either don't follow the instructions or are just too set in their ways to change over their process to make it work. It's proven to work, and work well.

The way i figure, if i can make it work, anyone can!

Sooooo true. Regards Stephen

[dikman]

Tazza, you don't even need to follow the instructions completely once you understand how it works!
I recently did another batch (don't need them as I have several thousand done but just felt like doing some :D).
Throw 200 (.38) into bucket, squirt in what looks right (none of this wussy measuring for me ;-), dry, into (non-fanforced) oven, bake for 10 mins, cool, test, re-coat, dry, into oven, cool, test and all done.

I have a few trays and can get a system going pretty well. I only do one tray at a time in my little oven, however, as I've learnt that any more is asking for trouble.

[Tazza]

So true. You have to do something really wrong to mess it up.

I still do measure the coating for constancy, but when doing smaller batches, i do just guess and go by the colour, you get an idea of how dark they are to know how much coating is on them.

I don't dry projectiles in trays like others do though, i have a full sheet of laminated MDF that i dry them on. I coat and pour them out on the MDF till dry, then scoop them up and put in trays and cook. Every few batches, i clean the excess coating off the MDF with acetone or when i use a different colour.

[dikman]

I can see where that would work. The only reason I keep mine in the trays is that it means the quantity/weight remains consistent for each load, fairly important given that my oven is not fanforced.

[Tazza]

I get around that by using a plastic container to mrasure them out, so i know what gets coated snd cooked

[kevin c]

I weigh out 5 1/2# of raw casts into each of many containers. Each batch separately gets their (measured) initial coat and drying, and is also baked, recoated, dried and rebaked separately.

A little OC,maybe, but as mentioned above, it's consistent.

[dikman]

Not OC, kevin, it's just figuring out a system that works for you and gives consistent results.:drinks:

[HI-TEK]

There are and always will be people that complain about hi-tek, they either don't follow the instructions or are just too set in their ways to change over their process to make it work. It's proven to work, and work well.

The way i figure, if i can make it work, anyone can!

Over the many years, the most common problem seems that people just wont take time with getting first coat right by checking dryness before baking. With all instructions in the world, cannot guarantee success. Simple details are,
FIRST COAT MUST BE BONDED AFTER BAKE
1.It is better to use a dilute thin coat as first coat, and don't use more mixture, than needed and barely coat the amount of projectiles. (Don't worry about lube grooves)
2.Don't worry how it looks, don't shake coat for extensive period.
Dry in suitable conditions (Not at 0-10 degrees Celsius like some try to do).
In cool/cold conditions, use warm air dry, by using a heater blower type fan, or put tray on top of oven with a separator to use warm air rising. DONT RUSH DRYING PROCESS.
3.To check dryness, bake only a few, cool, smash test. Only if this passes tests, then cook the bulk/rest.
4.If smash test fails on samples after bake, continue drying, even if you continue warm air dry with a fan blower. Length of drying will depend on load size, and ambient conditions and warm air source
5.After a period, (again DONT RUSH), re test bake a ONLY few more, and repeat No4 after baking.
6.Tell tale signs of coating not dry, is failed smash test, blistery Orange peel appearance, Blisters and obviously no adhesion.
7.DO NOT TRY TO FIX A FIRST BAD COAT BY RE-COATING or RE-BAKING. IT WONT WORK
8.Test bake samples may be darker than normal, that does not cause adhesion failures.

[Stephen Cohen]

If we could all listen to good advice and do as instructed, not only would we have perfect coating every time, we would also have no preventable health issues. Well at lest my cast coating is good. Regards Stephen

[Petander]

I also think that women understand ovens and baking better.

[Stephen Cohen]

I also think that women understand ovens and baking better.

Your a brave man Petander, I know you meant women are just better cooks than we men, however women do seem to be able to take everything the wrong way and would see your comment as a women's place is in the kitchen. Just pulling your chain mate.

[Tazza]

Your a brave man Petander, I know you meant women are just better cooks than we men, however women do seem to be able to take everything the wrong way and would see your comment as a women's place is in the kitchen. Just pulling your chain mate.

My wife looked daggers at me when i said i had just a few projectiles to cook in the inside oven.... Hey, it was already hot from cooking dinner, guess who wasn't allowed to use the oven for non food related items?.....

[slide]

Hey Joe, got a question for you. I have been trying to use up the last of some green liquid I have had for a while. I mixed it at the 5-1-7. I noticed that there was a tiny bit of catalyst left. I just dumped in my coating mix. I wish now I had measured it. It wasn't much. When I baked the bullets they came out with more shine to them. They passed the swipe and smash test. Am I imagining stuff or would a little extra catalyst do this?

[HI-TEK]

Hey Joe, got a question for you. I have been trying to use up the last of some green liquid I have had for a while. I mixed it at the 5-1-7. I noticed that there was a tiny bit of catalyst left. I just dumped in my coating mix. I wish now I had measured it. It wasn't much. When I baked the bullets they came out with more shine to them. They passed the swipe and smash test. Am I imagining stuff or would a little extra catalyst do this?

Slide,
using extra catalyst will not harm coating. Excess catalyst simply gasses off at cure conditions. It will be more smelly during baking.
Excess catalyst simply allows coating to cross link more, so the shine may be a result of that. Generally, the catalyst that is normally added is just slightly more than required for adequate cure at 180C plus. I have had some that used twice as much catalyst without any problems. You simply confirmed such results.

[slide]

Thanks Joe, I did notice a little smoke but didn't smell anything. Had a nice little crosswind going on. I was outside doing all this. 72 F! I couldn't stay inside!

[Avenger442]

Love this time of year. 70s-40sF temperatures 30%+ humidity, great casting and coating weather. I've got to get back to the scrap yard for some smelting material.

Gun season for deer opens next month and my freezer is empty. Have not used my cast to kill one. Not because I haven't tried. Beginning to think I have my dad's curse. He hunted deer most of his life but only killed two that I know of. Maybe this season. They are standing on the side of the road and grinning at me as I drive by. They know I can't shoot. But next month they will all disappear never to be seen until February.

[slide]

Ain't it the truth! Last year,I guess the rut was on, I had a huge buck come out of nowhere and ran into the side of my truck. It was about four in the morning and I figure he was chasing does. I though it killed him but he got up and staggered back into the brush. Here in Oklahoma we are overrun with the things.

[HI-TEK]

Ain't it the truth! Last year,I guess the rut was on, I had a huge buck come out of nowhere and ran into the side of my truck. It was about four in the morning and I figure he was chasing does. I though it killed him but he got up and staggered back into the brush. Here in Oklahoma we are overrun with the things.

We are in severe drought, here, no rain for many months, inland some have not seen rain in years. Wildlife is travelling to the coast to find food and Water. Some towns have run out of water, or are on restricted use.
We drive along a mile long road, and we see probably 50-60 Wallabies and Kangaroos with babies feeding on peoples lawns. It is quite dangerous to drive faster that about 10mph, as the animals get startled and run in front of car, into the sides causing a lot of damage. I have had to repair a car now 3 times in two years costing about $3500 each time, after hitting a Wallabi. My daughter had one go straight into the engine bay through the front grill. Repairs, thousands, as radiator, air conditioning, electricals and panels were all severely damaged.
We have had to adjust the way we now travel on these roads to avoid another collision.

[slide]

And I thought it was bad here!

[Froogal]

I recently watched a you-tube video on the Hi-Tek coating. Thought maybe it might be a good thing, but then he started talking about acetone. I can not tolerate acetone. I get dizzy and light-headed almost immediately when exposed to it, even when outdoors, so needless to say, I will not be experimenting with it.

[Avenger442]

Froogal

Good news, you are not restricted to acetone as a solvent.

Joe correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you can use denatured alcohol and I think MEK (although I don't like being around it). I've never use anything but acetone since it was the first mentioned. Some of the others have properties that are of an advantage in certain conditions.

[slide]

MEK works better for me. Doesn't evaporate as fast. If you are that sensitive and want to try it you can buy a respirator with cartiages that will work on fumes. I do my shaking outside and I stay upwind of the swirling container. No wind hold it as far out as you can. No problem! Just curious which video did you watch?

[dikman]

And I thought it was bad here!

If you're referring to rainfall, many areas in Oz are in real trouble due to a lack of it, sometimes for years as HI-TEK mentioned. If you're referring to animals causing accidents it's also becoming a real issue. Unless they're a hunter, or on a hunting forum, most people don't realise just how widespread deer are here. Likewise kangaroos, they are in plague proportions in places, and both species can do real damage if they hit a vehicle. It is not uncommon to find kangaroos in suburban areas now. Koalas are also in huge numbers now in some areas, fortunately they are a bit smaller and slow moving (and exceedingly dumb!).

Due to the tight restrictions on hunting here there is virtually nothing to control these beasties as they have no natural predators here (except for man).

[Ausglock]

Happy Birthday Tazza.

[HI-TEK]

Happy Birthday Tazza.

TAZZA,
I did not know you turned 21. Happy Birthday, celebrate well and long...

[Stephen Cohen]

And I thought it was bad here!

I remember living in North Queensland town of Dysart and we got a call that dad was very ill in hospital, 4 of us got in the one car to drive to Brisbane and had to stop and wait till daylight as we hit 23 Kangaroos in around 70 km. It is dangerous to drive at night in many Queensland areas. The wife and I feed at least 20 native birds every afternoon as there is little food for them in this dry time, in this state it is illegal to feed native birds so I have been told. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

in this state it is illegal to feed native birds so I have been told. Regards Stephen
Laws don't feed starving animals.
We put a large tub of water out every day for the roos and the birds.

[HI-TEK]

Laws don't feed starving animals.
We put a large tub of water out every day for the roos and the birds.


The so called "Laws" may be the reason why the Government refuses to help with Food and Water for all the drought stricken farmers inland who are shooting their stock and also selling breeding stock to slaughter houses. The government may consider that these animals are wild, and goes against the so called Laws to feed them or supply water, and that is why they have not acted, despite farmers being on their knees begging for help, and some committing suicide as they cant cope, and some simply walking off their properties leaving starving animals, as they cant afford buying feed, or Water, or pay for transport costs to freight them to slaughter houses.
We have seen some wild critters come and drink out of water we leave out. We have seen Bats and Flying Foxes fall out of trees with starvation and dehydration. It is not pleasant.

[Froogal]

MEK works better for me. Doesn't evaporate as fast. If you are that sensitive and want to try it you can buy a respirator with cartiages that will work on fumes. I do my shaking outside and I stay upwind of the swirling container. No wind hold it as far out as you can. No problem! Just curious which video did you watch?

Can't say which video I watched. I just did a search for Hi-Tek coatings and chose the one that looked the best. I think it was actually done by a Hi-Tek representative.

[Ausglock]

Be careful... There are a lot of vids on youtube of people doing the HITEK that are doing it wrong!

Some of them make me cringe.

I'd do one, But I have a face for Radio, not video..

[slide]

Ausglock's words should be heeded. You have to be careful. Most of the guys on youtube,not all, are just looking to try and make money or get these companies to send them free stuff. You can get the instructions online. Read them(several times). then YOU decide how you want to do it.

[HI-TEK]

Ausglock's words should be heeded. You have to be careful. Most of the guys on youtube,not all, are just looking to try and make money or get these companies to send them free stuff. You can get the instructions online. Read them(several times). then YOU decide how you want to do it.

Slide,
There are a couple of videos made by casters, both commercial and hobbyists.
Attached is links to them

https://youtu.be/RnBVfGzwyuM (commercial caster how to coat).

https://youtu.be/svu6oHcd7d0 (Gremlin how to coat)

[slide]

There you go Froogal, from the man himself!

[Ausglock]

Played with the Marlin 1894 44Mag today. This rifle is a 1978 vintage and JM stamped. Fitted a C-more Railway sight to it and sighted in.
I ran the Lee 210gn RNFP with 2 coats of Red Copper and some Sierra 240gn JSHP.
A few people have asked how the coated lead shoots in the Microgroove riflling of the marlins.
Well, they shoot fine. no gas checks and pushed along with 19gns of Alliant 2400.
The earth berm messed them up some, but you can still see the coating intact on the coated pill.
http://i.imgur.com/i3wZCpT.jpg (https://imgur.com/i3wZCpT)

Recovered Jacketed for fun..
http://i.imgur.com/UdWSlVj.jpg (https://imgur.com/UdWSlVj)

http://i.imgur.com/yUg7rTy.jpg (https://imgur.com/yUg7rTy)

[HI-TEK]

Played with the Marlin 1894 44Mag today. This rifle is a 1978 vintage and JM stamped. Fitted a C-more Railway sight to it and sighted in.
I ran the Lee 210gn RNFP with 2 coats of Red Copper and some Sierra 240gn JSHP.
A few people have asked how the coated lead shoots in the Microgroove riflling of the marlins.
Well, they shoot fine. no gas checks and pushed along with 19gns of Alliant 2400.
The earth berm messed them up some, but you can still see the coating intact on the coated pill.
http://i.imgur.com/i3wZCpT.jpg (https://imgur.com/i3wZCpT)

Recovered Jacketed for fun..
http://i.imgur.com/UdWSlVj.jpg (https://imgur.com/UdWSlVj)

http://i.imgur.com/yUg7rTy.jpg (https://imgur.com/yUg7rTy)

WOW that is awesome. That will answer a few who are wondering...

[Ausglock]

Interesting to note the colour change to the coating where is contacts the bore. a bit darker than the coating on the round nose.

[HI-TEK]

Interesting to note the colour change to the coating where is contacts the bore. a bit darker than the coating on the round nose.

Goes to show several things
1. There must have been a lot of frictional heat set up
2. The coating reflected the heat away from alloy and coating and Lead was not affected
3. The coating has taken enormous pressure and was OK
4. No residue in the bore, no Leading or atomisation, (until it hit the Berm) What have you got against that poor Berm?

[Froogal]

Be careful... There are a lot of vids on youtube of people doing the HITEK that are doing it wrong!

Some of them make me cringe.

I'd do one, But I have a face for Radio, not video..

I have been watching you tube videos for several years now, and on different subjects, and yes, some of them just make me cringe. I am not new to casting, not new to the various coatings. I worked in a ball bearing factory for many years, where I was exposed to many different chemicals, and eventually became over-sensitized. Acetone didn't use to bother me in the least. NOW it does. I cannot even deal with finger nail polish remover, scented candles, or most of the common, household cleaners.

[jsizemore]

Be careful... There are a lot of vids on youtube of people doing the HITEK that are doing it wrong!

Some of them make me cringe.

I'd do one, But I have a face for Radio, not video..

I hope you don't plan to HItek your mug or other body parts!

[slide]

Ausglock, you have coated more bullets than anybody on the planet.Why not do a video. What you think Joe?

[Ausglock]

The problem is that I have been coating for so long, I assume a lot of things. Little things like putting a "rattler bullet" in with the mixed coating. I would probably not mention it in a vid as it is common practice to me. Then you get some butt hurt Dumbarse having a go at you.

Joe asked me to do a test using a 50/50 mix of Acetone and Metho, as well as 100% Metho to mix with.

The 50/50 worked, but looked very blotchy. the 100% Metho failed badly. Both took over 10 minutes to dry, and that was in 29deg C day temps in my shed... very slow.....and horrible looking coated bullets..

The Summer mix of 80% Acetone to 20% Metho is still a good combo when mixing.

[slide]

I didn't think about it that way. Wishful thinking on my part. I get so sick of people trying hi-tek going by what they see on youtube,failing and then blaming the coating. The first few times I tried it it was a total disaster. I would go back and read the instuctions,ask you,ask Joe,or call Donnie. Plenty of help is available. I guess people are going to do what they are going to do!

[Tazza]

Happy Birthday Tazza.

Thanks buddy

Joe - If only i was 21 again..... My wife makes fun of me being OLD

[HI-TEK]

Ausglock, you have coated more bullets than anybody on the planet.Why not do a video. What you think Joe?

He has been promising a video, "how to use" Hi-Tek for as far as I can remember.
I have seen his coating set up video using wastepaper basket tumbler system, home made. I have seen his sizing machine, again home made.
He has also published his "fancy" oven system, home modified. He is churning out coated cast, and, aside from testing these coatings in a range, I don't know how he finds time to do any thing. I have to chase him continuously and try to pin him down. Sometime it works, other times not.

[Stephen Cohen]

Thanks buddy

Joe - If only i was 21 again..... My wife makes fun of me being OLD

Threaten to buy her a bigger mirror for all 4 walls of the bathroom, that's if your hospital cover is paid up. Regards Stephen

[Petander]

Contaminated lead isn't easy for the avereage Joe (pun) to find out about.

Only XRF gave me peace of mind, I knew that Hi Tek is good but I couldn't make it work at first. XRF verified my contaminant,Nb.

Look at the pic,the six reject shiny boolitsto the right are as cast. How could one suspect something being wrong with those pretty boolits? My good,old alloy that stays shiny forever! But they don't coat properly at all. The rest on the mesh were HCL soaked overnight and coat perfectly.

https://i.postimg.cc/vHf8SD6t/IMG-20191028-153703.jpg

At least in my case,no amount of pics,instructions or videos were as helpful as handling actual,properly coated Hi Tek boolits.

[Avenger442]

Joe asked me to do a test using a 50/50 mix of Acetone and Metho, as well as 100% Metho to mix with.

The 50/50 worked, but looked very blotchy. the 100% Metho failed badly. Both took over 10 minutes to dry, and that was in 29deg C day temps in my shed... very slow.....and horrible looking coated bullets..

The Summer mix of 80% Acetone to 20% Metho is still a good combo when mixing.

Sorry about previous comment concerning denature alcohol. It appears it was incorrect and it was methanol but can't use 100%. I see where MEK is still good.

As I said before I've never used anything but acetone. Does the 80/20 mix dry quicker or slower?

[Tazza]

I like acetone, it dries fast, but not too fast for me. If i need to slow it down, i can use MEK, yet it does smell really bad.

Good to know that AusGlock has tried different solvents so we don't need to try them and be disappointed :)

[HI-TEK]

Sorry about previous comment concerning denature alcohol. It appears it was incorrect and it was methanol but can't use 100%. I see where MEK is still good.

As I said before I've never used anything but acetone. Does the 80/20 mix dry quicker or slower?

80% Acetone with max 20% Denatured Alcohol works OK, and solvent
coating & drying does slow down.
Ausglock tested mixtures and pure Denatured Alcohol, but using Alcohol over 20% gave results that were not so good.

[Ausglock]

I keep forgetting that you Northern Hemishere types don't know what Metho is.
Metho is De-neutered Alcohol. Not Methanol.

I use Acetone and MEK. Honestly, The smell doesn't bother me. I have a small desk fan behind me that blows any fumes away from me. Even when hand swirling there is no smell. The rotary coater is far enough away that no fan is needed.
The only Smells I get are the baking fumes coming from the oven at the 1/2 time mark when shaking and turning the tray or if I drop me guts.

[Tazza]

I keep forgetting that you Northern Hemishere types don't know what Metho is.
Metho is De-neutered Alcohol. Not Methanol.

I use Acetone and MEK. Honestly, The smell doesn't bother me. I have a small desk fan behind me that blows any fumes away from me. Even when hand swirling there is no smell. The rotary coater is far enough away that no fan is needed.
The only Smells I get are the baking fumes coming from the oven at the 1/2 time mark when shaking and turning the tray or if I drop me guts.

hahaha i liked the addition of you dropping your guts

My dad always complained when he was near by when i used MEK "i don't know how you can stand that stuff" it doesn't bother me that much, but i do avoid it when i can, as it does make me feel sick if i get too many whiffs of it. The wife's nail polish remover angers my nose more than MEK does.

[HI-TEK]

hahaha i liked the addition of you dropping your guts

My dad always complained when he was near by when i used MEK "i don't know how you can stand that stuff" it doesn't bother me that much, but i do avoid it when i can, as it does make me feel sick if i get too many whiffs of it. The wife's nail polish remover angers my nose more than MEK does.

Some Nail polishes used to contain Toluol, Acetone and or Ethyl Acetate, or blends of these.
If it may be a Cheapie, who knows what is in it. Most don't declare composition.
Solvent mixes sometimes irritate the nose more.

[Tazza]

Some Nail polishes used to contain Toluol, Acetone and or Ethyl Acetate, or blends of these.
If it may be a Cheapie, who knows what is in it. Most don't declare composition.
Solvent mixes sometimes irritate the nose more.

It's supposed to have acetone in it, but i think it also contains essence of skunk.....

[HI-TEK]

It's supposed to have acetone in it, but i think it also contains essence of skunk.....

Years ago, when I was a young whipper snipper, nail polishes contained Nitro Cellulose, Toluene Sulphonamide Formaldehyde resins so they stick to nails.
Later on due to Formaldehyde concerns, they changed additives to modified Epoxy type resins, but then, concerns came about epoxy resin raw material component residues remaining in the epoxy and things changed again. I have had very little contact with this stuff for many years since. I have no idea what is in current recipes.
I don't know if these are a regulated material. I cant recall any Flammable warning on any bottle/container.
Come to think of it, none of the Bourbon or Scotch bottles have a Dangerous category (flash point below 40C)

[Petander]

80% Acetone with max 20% Denatured Alcohol works OK, and solvent
coating & drying does slow down.
Ausglock tested mixtures and pure Denatured Alcohol, but using Alcohol over 20% gave results that were not so good.

I have been adding metho in a slightly different way for a while now:

https://i.postimg.cc/PrsCSVQL/IMG-20191029-130319-338.jpg

I put six pounds of bullets in the bowl. Add four ml of Metho (denatured alcohol) , swirl until bullets look wet, approx ten seconds. Add six ml of full strength Hi Tek solution,swirl again maybe up to 30 sec.

I used to make 100+20 acetone/metho mixes in bottles but I ended up with so many bottles,some full strength,some diluted... it became a confusion ... so I tried it this way. Now I only have full strength bottles.

At least with TMG Gold and Candy Apple this works great, I shoot eg. full power 45-70 and 500 S&W 1600-1900 fps using plain base boolits. NLG molds coming in one by one.

Pictured here are some 357 Lee boolits that I coated yesterday. Three six pound trays.

https://i.postimg.cc/mr34wTTD/IMG-20191028-212714.jpg

[Gremlin460]

Happy b/day Tazz. Hi Trev and Jim.

Just thought I drop by to see whats happenin..

[Tazza]

Happy b/day Tazz. Hi Trev and Jim.

Just thought I drop by to see whats happenin..

Thanks buddy

Same 'ol for me, casting, trying to sell a house, getting in trouble with the wife, so nothing new :)

[slide]

I was gifted some bullets by a club member. He wasn't sure what the alloy was. I decided to use Petander's cleaning process with HCL. What I used was 20%. There was around two pounds of bullets. I put them in a plastic container and poured the HCL over them. The HCL started bubbling and I let the bullets set overnight in the solution. Next day I poured off the HCL and rinsed the bullets well. They were black and grey and after drying they had a very fine dust on them that was blackish colored. Did I mess up by using the HCL straight from the bottle? Maybe I should have diluted it. I sent a pm to Petander but forgot to ask this question. Anybody got any ideas? A word of caution,the fumes off of this stuff are terrible and it will burn the crap out of you. I used chemical proof gloves,splash goggles ,face shield,and a respirator. If you try this BE CAREFUL!

[Tazza]

High concentration HCL sure is nasty, you can see the fumes when you open the bottle.

That result sounds about right from what Petander has mentioned for his process.

Glad you were protected, i wear rubber gloves when messing with acid, if it gets on your skin, wash it off quickly, HCL isn't something that will instantly burn you, but get it off as fast as possible.

[kevin c]

Petander, that sounds like a better approach than what I've been doing.

I currently am coating a lube grooved 9mm by MP, and, while I know it makes no difference to the shooting or the bore, I kinda like an even coat in the groove. A bit of fiddling got me to two coats: 7 ml of a 20 to 200 mix, followed by 5 ml of a 20 to 100 mix (acetone as the solvent in both). It does a pretty good job with a bit less of the powder, but I still get the occasional under coated spot in the groove.

Your way sounds better: a standard amount of powder applied per coat with complete coverage as facilitated by even more volume than I was using, and by "pre wetting". Bravo!

Definitely going to give this a go next time (though I may have to fiddle some with the faster evaporating acetone, or consider a switch or mix of the two-does anyone know how MEK/denatured alcohol and acetone mix? ETA: oops, didn't read Ausglock's post above-I'll stick to acetone or denatured unmixed). Two different strength bottles wasn't too bad with just one color, but now I've got two, with another one or two under consideration. Four bottles are definitely easier to keep track of than eight.

[HI-TEK]

I was gifted some bullets by a club member. He wasn't sure what the alloy was. I decided to use Petander's cleaning process with HCL. What I used was 20%. There was around two pounds of bullets. I put them in a plastic container and poured the HCL over them. The HCL started bubbling and I let the bullets set overnight in the solution. Next day I poured off the HCL and rinsed the bullets well. They were black and grey and after drying they had a very fine dust on them that was blackish colored. Did I mess up by using the HCL straight from the bottle? Maybe I should have diluted it. I sent a pm to Petander but forgot to ask this question. Anybody got any ideas? A word of caution, the fumes off of this stuff are terrible and it will burn the crap out of you. I used chemical proof gloves, splash goggles ,face shield, and a respirator. If you try this BE CAREFUL!

Slide,
The Acid as normally purchased for cleaning Concrete is about 30% strength (Hydrochloric Acid , also known as Spirits of Salt, and also called Muriatic Acid).
For acid washing cast, the acid needs to be diluted into water first, at 2 parts water and 1 part acid. Use only plastic containers to make dilutions and soaking
When doing this, have some Bicarb Soda nearby, dissolved in water, ( about 1 pound to a gallon of water), and this can be used to immediately neutralise any acid splashes that may get onto your skin or clothes. Make sure you have a hose that is on, so you can wash down any spills.
Is surface of acid washed cast look like porous surface?

With your soaked Cast, it is obvious that the alloy was fairly contaminated with other metals for it to react the way it did. You can re-use that acid, but suggest you dilute it first with water.
With acid soaked cast, make sure you wash with running water to remove traces of acid. Dry well, even if warming is needed. Then coat them as normal.

[Ausglock]

Happy b/day Tazz. Hi Trev and Jim.

Just thought I drop by to see whats happenin..

G'day Grem. You poor old Pommy Banana bender. How's things?

[slide]

Thanks Joe. You can't see the surface of bullets because of the layer of fine dust. It reminds me of chalk dust but darker in color. I will wipe one down and look under magnifacation. Is the lead good for anything?

[HI-TEK]

Thanks Joe. You can't see the surface of bullets because of the layer of fine dust. It reminds me of chalk dust but darker in color. I will wipe one down and look under magnifacation. Is the lead good for anything?

If hardness is OK and allows sizing after coating, it should be OK. It is a suck and see situation.

If you want to remove powdery residue, simply tumble in saw dust or similar, and that should show surface of the metal.

[Petander]

Slide,that sounds about right. I use 30% right from the bottle.

Can you spray them boolits with water? It will wash away,I have used a garden hose. Sawdust will resin contaminate it,don't do that.

You can also coat them like that,the dust will color your coating a bit darker but it won't harm anything. They will really suck the first coat in. That dark dust will color your bowl a little.

I use a dishwashing brush when I wash them in water.

[slide]

After I drained them of acid I rinsed them with a hose with a spray nozzle. The dust won't keep the coating from adhering to the bullet?

[slide]

It is 1:30 AM here. I am going to bed. I will try everybody's suggestions tomorrow. Goodnight!

[Petander]

After I drained them of acid I rinsed them with a hose with a spray nozzle. The dust won't keep the coating from adhering to the bullet?

Some dust has only darkened my gold a little. Might depend on how much there is.

[Petander]

Your way sounds better: a standard amount of powder applied per coat with complete coverage as facilitated by even more volume than I was using, and by "pre wetting". Bravo!
.

This is very easy.

With TMG Gold you get complete coverage with two coats this way. The first coat looks almost fully covered already,yes it looks "too much" but it works perfectly good. I still did the third coat in case I push them in a rifle.... goes nice and easy with three trays when you find the routine/rhythm.

Here are some of those TMG Gold bullets heat treated. One hour in 220°C, then one hour in ice water. They hit 18 BHN in a couple of hours,that's when I smashed them for the pic,already brittle. Now overnight they are BHN 36.

https://i.postimg.cc/8PXFmyY6/IMG-20191030-090656-237.jpg

[Ausglock]

Sawdust will resin contaminate it


Not Hardwood... I mean Real Hardwood... Aussie Hardwood... Not that soft hardwood you lot up north swoon over...
Our softest hardwood is harder than your hardest.

OZ Rocks.

[HI-TEK]

Sawdust will resin contaminate it,don't do that.

You can also coat them like that,the dust will color your coating a bit darker but it won't harm anything. They will really suck the first coat in. That dark dust will color your bowl a little.

I use a dishwashing brush when I wash them in water.

Petander, I was only thinking, that from description, the acid washing left a lot of powder that I thought would cause coating problems. The loose powder needs to be removed for optimum bonding.
I though Saw dust will work, as wood is a good abrasive, and would clean surface. The wood dust I imagined would be easy to separate from lead by simply blowing away with a blower. (In hindsight, it may not have been a great suggestion)

[dikman]

BHN 36?? That's pretty hard!

[Petander]

Petander, I was only thinking, that from description, the acid washing left a lot of powder that I thought would cause coating problems. The loose powder needs to be removed for optimum bonding.
I though Saw dust will work, as wood is a good abrasive, and would clean surface. The wood dust I imagined would be easy to separate from lead by simply blowing away with a blower. (In hindsight, it may not have been a great suggestion)

Yep it's difficult to guess how much "powder" there is by writing about it over the net.

I used to wash it all carefully but later noticed that some of that black dust doesn't matter at all. How much is "some"? :)

[Petander]

BHN 36?? That's pretty hard!

Tell me about it. The gold ones are 10 BHN. Same batch.

https://i.postimg.cc/xCbVJ3ZM/IMG-20191030-095058.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/NM2rPZKV/IMG-20191030-095530-272.jpg



My antimony content is pretty high,these are useless unless I soften them again.

[HI-TEK]

.

This is very easy.

With TMG Gold you get complete coverage with two coats this way. The first coat looks almost fully covered already,yes it looks "too much" but it works perfectly good. I still did the third coat in case I push them in a rifle.... goes nice and easy with three trays when you find the routine/rhythm.

Here are some of those TMG Gold bullets heat treated. One hour in 220°C, then one hour in ice water. They hit 18 BHN in a couple of hours,that's when I smashed them for the pic,already brittle. Now overnight they are BHN 36.

https://i.postimg.cc/8PXFmyY6/IMG-20191030-090656-237.jpg

Petander,
with your process you now seem to have invented a Chocolate colour from TMG Gold.

[Petander]

Petander,
with your process you now seem to have invented a Chocolate colour from TMG Gold.

Here is the secret ingredient. Our warmest water is colder than your coldest down there.

https://i.postimg.cc/Jhxfwp25/IMG-20191029-213129.jpg

[Tazza]

Here is the secret ingredient. Our warmest water is colder than your coldest down there.

https://i.postimg.cc/Jhxfwp25/IMG-20191029-213129.jpg

I may have to give this a go, see if my lead can be hardened like this, will be interesting to give it a go for rifle projectiles. A few mad mates have 300 black out that they want to try running lead through at mid range speed.

[Petander]

I may have to give this a go, see if my lead can be hardened like this, will be interesting to give it a go for rifle projectiles. A few mad mates have 300 black out that they want to try running lead through at mid range speed.

It will harden if there's antimony. Here is an excellent page:

http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm


I did hardening as a separate step,not combined with coating bake. Crazy hard. So I just baked a few boolits 10 min bake time & temp to see how they anneal back. Will report.

EDIT: Report here,they dropped back to what they really are,10 BHN again.

My other interest was to see how TMG Gold holds up with hardening/overbake. Flying chocolate colors!

https://i.postimg.cc/WzJSjPVr/IMG-20191030-111125.jpg

[Petander]

Not Hardwood... I mean Real Hardwood... Aussie Hardwood... Not that soft hardwood you lot up north swoon over...
Our softest hardwood is harder than your hardest.

OZ Rocks.

Acetone fumes taking their toll.

[Tazza]

I'll have to give it a go when i get a chance, this looks interesting.

[HI-TEK]

I'll have to give it a go when i get a chance, this looks interesting.


It would be great if we could determine, how long it will take for the quench hardening to start going back down towards original hardness?

[Tazza]

It would be great if we could determine, how long it will take for the quench hardening to start going back down towards original hardness?

That was my concern too, with steel, you harden it and it stays that way, but i did hear lead does loose hardness from heat treatment over time, but depends on how long it would take. MOST of us shoot what we cast pretty fast, say within a year or two, but i know a guy that has rifle loads that he did in the 60's or 70's.... So there area always expectations to the rules.

[Avenger442]

Has anybody got an update on Donnie? I hate to bother him or his wife right now.

All you guys talking about the acid and dangers reminded me of a story. I worked for 11 years at a university managing and coordinating construction for several different types of occupancy and fitting out empty floors. We did labs in one of the projects for some type of research. The labs had been finished and they were working in it. About two months later I got and emergency call on my beeper. When I answered it the Research Director was having a come apart about something that was going on with one of the chemical resistant sinks in one of the lab spaces. Told him I would be right over to have a look. When I got there he took me back to the lab. The sink had groves etched into the side about 1/8 inch deep and a hole next to the drain. When I opened up the cabinet under the sink there was a hole through the wood bottom of the cabinet and the concrete underneath had a hole in it. He and I tried to find out what had been dumped into the sink but no one was talking. We never found out. I had to tell the Director that this was not covered by their warranty and they would have to foot the bill for the repair. They were very expensive sinks with very expensive plumbing attached.

In a demo with the reps for these sinks they put muriatic acid in the sink with no damage. Sulfuric acid didn't even phase this stuff. But the recommended use for the sink call for nothing but diluted chemicals be put in them. I'm not sure what the researcher in that lab was using, all I know is don't want any of it around my house.

When we used muriatic to clean masonry we diluted it and we still wore rubber gloves, hardhat with face shield, rubber apron and rubber boots. If you worked with it all day you could still count on your clothes having holes in them. We always had a hose handy. I never knew anyone that got hurt bad but did hear some stories.

250480

[Tazza]

Wow, sure must have been something nasty. I have used hydrochloric and Nitric acids, i thought nitric was supposed to be really nasty stuff, but it doesn't seem to be more aggressive than the HCL. High concentration sulphuric is supposed to be rather dangerous too.

Glad i don't use it much, i rather not have holes burnt into my clothing or having chemical burns.

[slide]

I talked to him via e-mail a couple days ago. He said he is doing good and was well pleased with the job the docs did. He was in quite a bit of pain for a few days. I hope he didn't get caught up in this stupid opiod scare and they didn't give any pain meds.

[slide]

I guess I could have edited the above post but ,oh well. As far as the acid I am not fooling with it anymore. I don't like messing with. It is bad stuff. I could dilute like Joe says but I will pass. I have only had trouble with coating flaking when I first started years ago but have learned better.

[Petander]

It would be great if we could determine, how long it will take for the quench hardening to start going back down towards original hardness?

Good read and links to deeper info here:

http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm.


Have you tried water dropping straight from the last bake? I have a feeling it's not a good idea,coating is not done yet. Or is it okay? Need to try and see. I could use a 16-18 BHN water dropped bullet. Not 36!

[dikman]

From my readings I get the impression that water-hardened lead will, over time, revert back to the hardness it had when cast.

[popper]

Water drop after last bake is ok. They don't soften over time unless excess tin is used as a hardener.

[Petander]

Water drop after last bake is ok. They don't soften over time unless excess tin is used as a hardener.

Good to know,thank you.

Many people can find pure, WW is becoming valuable antimony stash. Let's say I shoot 200 lbs of range scrap per year (here scrap is j-bullets & 22LR, I"m the only bullet caster around). Mixing that scrap with enough WW gives an alloy that hardens nice. I used to mix 50/50 or so, my WW also has 10% of Mono mixed in so there's some math to do. My 50/50 hardens too much but it's good 13 BHN as is.

Anyway the basic idea would be to use less WW than before,by heat treating.

[Tazza]

My range scrap came out to be 11, it gets lino added to give it tim to make it flow a bit better, i just need to work out a recipe that doesn't use loads of valuable linotype

[Petander]

I fired these 8 BHN 160 grain bullets today.VV N320 close to max,a fun snappy accurate load. TMG Gold.

Accuracy was there all the time,based on how I was hitting plates and claybirds. There was some minor leading in both barrels,first 2-3" had some lead streaks,I think 8 BHN plain base and 357 Magnum is a pretty long call.

But at least you can fire several dozen with good accuracy if you want a soft alloy hunting load. I will load more of these and see when/if accuracy goes south / real leading begins. Might even try N110 for full house.

https://i.postimg.cc/DzS9dy8c/IMG-20191101-145519.jpg

[Petander]

Petander,
with your process you now seem to have invented a Chocolate colour from TMG Gold.


Here's a new one,can we call this "Dropbear Dropping"?

https://i.postimg.cc/QCjqPPtM/IMG-20191102-012219-398.jpg

[Petander]

Now I noticed that the Dark Chocolate heat treated ones (220°C one hour) have settled down to 20 BHN. They skyrocketed to 36 right after one hour in ice water,being crazy brittle for a day. I didn't expect them to soften right away but they did.

So I loaded some of these 20 BHN:s and got normal accuracy with a clean barrel. Still no paper, plates,clays only. But I verified 75 meters last with a couple of dozen rounds,looking good in the snowy berm.

https://i.postimg.cc/8z6kspGq/IMG-20191102-155522.jpg

[dikman]

Petander, what was the hardness of those as cast, before heat treat/water dropping?

[Petander]

Petander, what was the hardness of those as cast, before heat treat/water dropping?

8 BHN by accident. Ingot mix-up.

Read a couple posts back. I'm trying to find a standard for heat treating,playing around with those 8 BHN bullets now. It takes a few days for them to settle. One hour 220 °C wasn't a disaster after all, now I also have 200 °C -treated that read BHN 14 after sitting overnight. They are going up in BHN.

I'm looking at this to get a magnum alloy while using less WW and more pure which is easier to get here. Hi Tek coating doesn't seem to mind the extra hour at all,it just gets darker. I coat normally first,then heat treat after a few days. Just to make sure the coating is fine first.

https://i.postimg.cc/Z5GDVj69/IMG-20191101-152918.jpg

[HI-TEK]

Here's a new one,can we call this "Dropbear Dropping"?

https://i.postimg.cc/QCjqPPtM/IMG-20191102-012219-398.jpg

If you are happy with that name, so be it.... I would call it Chocolate, because it looks like chocolate drops. Ah well.... what is in a name any way.....

What is more important is, that you have also confirmed other peoples tests with over bake results, that shows, that the Hi-Tek coating works OK afterwards.
The colour suffers, but no Leading and no loss of adhesion to alloy.
Over baking seems to produce some fairly nice colours. Some colours are not so pleasing after over bake, but still works OK.

[Petander]

I switched to more powerful loads with Vihtavuori N110. About 1500 fps /158 grain Lee, heat treated to ~18 BHN.

Again "normal" accuracy, I still didn't shoot (boring) groups but I was hitting steel and clays pretty good 25-75 m.

No cleaning needed after 80 rounds, I pushed two dry patches and examined a nice clean barrel.

https://i.postimg.cc/76kCHX25/IMG-20191103-141326.jpg

Throat fit is a "push-through" @ 358, I will try 3585 one day.

[Petander]

I discovered a KISS load while waiting for another sizer die:

I loaded a few dozen stout N110 loads using unsized Lee 158:s. And unhardened, BHN 8-10 after coating a few days ago.They are about .360 and vary quite a bit. I was hitting a plate all the time with the Rossi carbine and now I'm back home looking in the barrel... it looks very,very clean.

This is very good news and confirms the "Fit is the King" -rule. I'll add a cat pic to make this post more meaningful:

https://i.postimg.cc/13Yp0PQZ/IMG-20191024-201943-016.jpg

[Petander]

TMG Gold is so good and easy.

I don't know why but I'm getting such a tough,elastic,glass-like but unbreakable coating with it... plain base bullets only for easy life,full house 500 S&W, 45-70,now 357...

https://i.postimg.cc/RZYT2HRc/IMG-20191105-221052.jpg

[Tazza]

You sure have done some great testing with TMG gold. I need more time to sit back and do testing too, i'm having fun with 122 red, initially i wanted a nice bright red like the american eagle 9mm? but after cooking, it's a deep red to purple that looks really good.

Keep up the good reviews, looking forward to trying to harden some of my cast in the next week or so, see if i can get similar results to you.

[Petander]

I have a batch of 30 min baked/ ice water dropped outside right now.

With my alloy,I can use a little more TMG than other colours with no ill effects. The first coat almost covers the whole bullet,including grooves. I keep thinking about my Niobium alloy contaminant.

Excellent results anyway.

https://i.postimg.cc/gcDP0Q3M/IMG-20191106-192917-028.jpg

[Tazza]

Looking forward to hearing how they go, i may have a go of doing this over the weekend too. See if my alloy will harden at all. I can then have a few batches to test over time, see if it can be done scientific like :)

I measure my projectiles out with a plastic container then add 5ml of coating that gives a good coating, not all lube grooves are filled, but by the third one, they look mostly filled in. I have mistakenly given half batches a full 5ml of coating without issues, they just look better coated when dropping them out, they don't stick together like i was worried they would, you have to do something really stupid to have issues.

I'd like to get some of my lead checked to see just what's in it, i have a fair bit of recovered range scrap, when i have issues with frozen lead around the pour rod (i run fairly low pot temepratures so it does freeze every so often if i add ingots too fast), i hit it with the oxy, i get a little green in the flame, so there has to be copper in there. I don't know if it's just residual dross from when it was first cleaned as the scrap had a LOT of jackets in it, so i suspect there can and would be copper dust in there. I have also heard from this forum that copper can be dissolved in the lead, but won't cause issues.

[Jatz357]

One of my favourite pastimes, shake and bake.

250865
250866

[Tazza]

One of my favourite pastimes, shake and bake.

250865
250866

What colour is that? looks awesome

[Jatz357]

What colour is that? looks awesome

It's Candy Apple with Red 122 add. I think mix was 16 grams Candy Apple and 4 grams Red 122. My previous life as a vehicle spray painter - panel beater showing through perhaps, love mixing and matching colours.

[Tazza]

Well, you sure nailed it, looks great :)

I tried to colour match something before, all i had were rattle cans, so i sprayed out paint and mixed colours together, guess how well that went? yeah, not well at all....... It seems i suck at mixing colours :(

[Petander]

Beautiful indeed!

[Petander]

One coat TMG Gold.

I use 10 ml / 10 lbs as per instructions BUT I use 6ml Metho first,swirl for a wet look. Then add and swirl 10 ml full strength Hi Tek for 30 sec.

I don't get this kind of first coat with any other colour.

https://i.postimg.cc/Z5Hzwp8P/IMG-20191109-123543.jpg

[Ausglock]

How about investing in some decent trays???

[Petander]

How about investing in some decent trays???

These are custom made and adjustable to fit my three different size ovens.

[Petander]

Now I have invented TMG Bronze.

This is 15 min heat treated from 8 to possibly 14 BHN. I will know for sure in a few days.

https://i.postimg.cc/HnLZNFHT/IMG-20191109-230410.jpg.


Joe please I need a kilo of Original TMG Gold. Or make it two. Please don't discontinue just yet. My alloy contaminants don't matter much at all with this particular coating of yours.

[HI-TEK]

Now I have invented TMG Bronze.


Joe please I need a kilo of Original TMG Gold. Or make it two. Please don't discontinue just yet. My alloy contaminants don't matter much at all with this particular coating of yours.

Petander,
I will have a look at possibility. Not making any promises.

At present, I have major concerns here.
We have relocated all our stock, raw materials packaging into a safe warehouse.
We may have to leave here with short notice due to severe bush fires.
I cannot concentrate in making any thing until things sort itself out with Fires.
It is possible, I may loose my property, home and other buildings.
It is a very worrying time.

[Tazza]

Petander,
I will have a look at possibility. Not making any promises.

At present, I have major concerns here.
We have relocated all our stock, raw materials packaging into a safe warehouse.
We may have to leave here with short notice due to severe bush fires.
I cannot concentrate in making any thing until things sort itself out with Fires.
It is possible, I may loose my property, home and other buildings.
It is a very worrying time.

Glad you're thinking ahead for worst case scenario, move all essentials to a safe location. I hope your place stays safe, there are a lot of places going up, this summer is going to be horrible.

[HI-TEK]

Glad you're thinking ahead for worst case scenario, move all essentials to a safe location. I hope your place stays safe, there are a lot of places going up, this summer is going to be horrible.

Tazza,
I think we were lucky these last few days as winds were pushing fire away from our area.
We are surrounded in several areas, with severe fires that are continuing out of control.
All it takes is a wind change, and lit embers sent into our area, and we also can be lit up.
Some of these fires consumed huge areas in hours. If I recall details correctly , fire embers travelled at 60-70km per hour with winds at 80-90km/hour. There are reports that homeowners after seeing fire coming, lost their homes in 15 minutes afterwards.
We have had Choppers and planes flying over us, carrying water to a nearby area, a few kilometres from us. We can see the red glow and huge smoke clouds. We are simply waiting and hope we will be OK, and praying for a huge rain storm to put out these fires..

[HI-TEK]

Tazza,
I think we were lucky these last few days as winds were pushing fire away from our area.
We are surrounded in several areas, with severe fires that are continuing out of control.
All it takes is a wind change, and lit embers sent into our area, and we also can be lit up.
Some of these fires consumed huge areas in hours. If I recall details correctly , fire embers travelled at 60-70km per hour with winds at 80-90km/hour. There are reports that homeowners after seeing fire coming, lost their homes in 15 minutes afterwards.
We have had Choppers and planes flying over us, carrying water to a nearby area, a few kilometres from us. We can see the red glow and huge smoke clouds. We are simply waiting and hope we will be OK, and praying for a huge rain storm to put out these fires..

I am only trying to protect ourselves, and keep my materials safe, so I can continue afterwards.

[Tazza]

It's scary i bet, you never know what's going to happen.

Where i am, we have large amounts of bush land, in 40-50 years, it has never caught fire. hey have done a control burn a year or 2 ago to get rid of a lot of the fuel, but the properties did not get burnt, so there is always a chance they could go up and jump from yard to yard.

I have seen video of how fires move with high winds, i hope to never see this in person.

Stay safe buddy, keep the yard and house as wet as you can with the water you have stored to give the best chance till it rains again

[HI-TEK]

It's scary i bet, you never know what's going to happen.

I have seen video of how fires move with high winds, i hope to never see this in person.

Stay safe buddy, keep the yard and house as wet as you can with the water you have stored to give the best chance till it rains again


I have videos and photos but I cannot post them. I saw first hand, this fire travel some 25 kilometres in about an hour, burning every thing in its path fanned by high wind and the huge air suction created by heat rising and burning process.
I have seen a wall of flames 3 KM plus long and 50 metres high.

We can wet areas, and, despite our premises being made from non flammable material cladding, Steel frames, the embers entering places causes fires inside these buildings.
This was clearly demonstrated with many that had already property burnt to the ground, and had pictures of half melted Steel on the ground.

[slide]

Hang in there Joe. Hoping everything works out.

[Petander]

Petander,
I will have a look at possibility. Not making any promises.

At present, I have major concerns here.
We have relocated all our stock, raw materials packaging into a safe warehouse.
We may have to leave here with short notice due to severe bush fires.
I cannot concentrate in making any thing until things sort itself out with Fires.
It is possible, I may loose my property, home and other buildings.
It is a very worrying time.

Oh my I didn't know that you are in the fire area...

Best wishes and prayers is all I can do,never mind TMG for now.

[Tazza]

That is the thing you don't think about initially, the heat causes the air to rise and pull in more oxygen to fuel the fire even more.

My brother is looking at building a house in a "fire area" as in an area that has never burnt either, but the council says you need to ensure all the outside is fire proof and wire mesh for where embers can touch timber (like crimsafe). I'd like to think it would never burn from an ember, but when embers are flying at your house like the sparks from a grinder, it is more likely one will start a fire.

[Jatz357]

I have videos and photos but I cannot post them. I saw first hand, this fire travel some 25 kilometres in about an hour, burning every thing in its path fanned by high wind and the huge air suction created by heat rising and burning process.
I have seen a wall of flames 3 KM plus long and 50 metres high.

We can wet areas, and, despite our premises being made from non flammable material cladding, Steel frames, the embers entering places causes fires inside these buildings.
This was clearly demonstrated with many that had already property burnt to the ground, and had pictures of half melted Steel on the ground.

Seeing images and videos is one thing but, being there and witnessing firsthand is completely different. I was at Canberra when the bush fires tore through there many years ago. Provided assistance refilling tankers from a dam near Brindabella National Park, North West of ACT - NSW border. I will not forget the noise of the fire, how fast fire can travel and the weather conditions made by the fire itself. The paddock where the dam was located was pretty much just dirt, very little vegetation and I thought we were safe there but, to see what looked like dirt caching on fire and burning was just unbelievable.

Definitely not a good situation at the moment. I hope you are spared the devastation that has come to so many areas of NSW & QLD.

[kevin c]

Our thoughts are with you, Joe, and with all those at risk.

[Avenger442]

Joe

We get some news about fires in California. But didn't realize you guys were having trouble like that there. Praying for you and yours to be spared the destruction.

[Ausglock]

I have all the important items packed in washing baskets, Clothes in suitcases, Dog harnesses and leads on the patio. Sprinkler on the roof of the house, the 2 driving school cars parked in the centre of the yard with a sprinkler ready to spray water over them. The Missus's car has all her work computer and student files in it. My Ute will get everything in baskets thrown in the back of it and the 2 dogs on the back seat. Then we bugger off into town and wait for the fire to pass. If our place survives, so be it. If not? We are insured. Guns and everything else can be replaced. Everyone stay safe... See you all on the other side.

[Tazza]

I have all the important items packed in washing baskets, Clothes in suitcases, Dog harnesses and leads on the patio. Sprinkler on the roof of the house, the 2 driving school cars parked in the centre of the yard with a sprinkler ready to spray water over them. The Missus's car has all her work computer and student files in it. My Ute will get everything in baskets thrown in the back of it and the 2 dogs on the back seat. Then we bugger off into town and wait for the fire to pass. If our place survives, so be it. If not? We are insured. Guns and everything else can be replaced. Everyone stay safe... See you all on the other side.

I didn't realize it was close to you, i had in my head that your suburb wasn't "wooded" as such and you'd be more than clear, but there is bush land everywhere and it can move so easily.

Glad you are all prepared like Joe is, i figured the same, "stuff" can be replaced, and that's what insurance is for, the stuff that can't, you make sure you take extra care of that so it can't be destroyed.

Stay safe down there, we re getting all the smoke and haze, but at least we aren't on fire.

[kevin c]

Good luck and be safe, Trevor.

[dansedgli]

Be safe guys.

Sounds pretty bad on the news.

[Ausglock]

So far, So good.
The fire has not moved north towards us.....yet.
Just spoke to Joe and he is in Town but his place is still OK at this time.

[Tazza]

Lets hope it stays that way!

[HI-TEK]

Lets hope it stays that way!


Thanks Tazza,
We decided that it was not safe to stay, and we evacuated to town, and staying at a hotel
During our stay, we had updates that our street was on fire. I phoned the emergency landline and wanted an update, and I also advised that we have our premises surrounded by State forest and can he please make aware firefighting crew about our place and location.
I was told, that he put us on their system.
Today we had confirmation, that road was open again, so we hurried back to check on things. Thank God all is OK. Then we again received warning that a fire is near us again. We were ready to leave again, but the Southerly wind came, and the fire was pushed away from us.
The change was great, but now pushed fire into other areas and others are now in danger.
All the media is saying that possibly over 50% of these fires were deliberately started, then the strong wind carried burning embers up to 20 km away, starting new fires..
I am concerned, that may be there is some truth in this, as fires all seem to be started in bushland without any reasonable explanations.
Inspection of our yard, we can see a huge amount of burnt sticks, leaves and bark.
I am thankful, that they all were not burning when they landed here.

[Tazza]

That's great news that you seem to be in the clear now.

The sad thing is, people do light fires just because.... They either don't understand how bad it is, or just don't care that it puts property and lives at risk.

I never thought embers could travel so far, but you're the second person to say this, so it has to be true. The bosses brother lives on the coast in northern NSW, i don't remember the suburb, but apparently, the beach is covered in ash and burnt sticks..... There current;y are no fires really close to him, so the ash and burnt sticks came from somewhere.....

Hopefully they have it all under control and you get some rain to put the fires out.

[Ausglock]

90% of the fires started in National parks where there is no Hazard reduction burns in winter. They also let all the fire trails grow over.
Lightning strikes started most of the fires.

[Tazza]

90% of the fires started in National parks where there is no Hazard reduction burns in winter. They also let all the fire trails grow over.
Lightning strikes started most of the fires.

I heard they blame "dry lightning" for starting fires, i have never seen lightning when it wasn't raining.

[Ausglock]

Yep Dry Lightning is very common. Static charge builds up during dry weather and you get the electric discharge. Especially when the humidity is very low. Have a look at the Essential energy storm tracker site and check lightning strike box. you will be amazed at how many there are...

[Tazza]

Must be cause it's so humid up in Brisbane that i never see it :)

It makes sense, just never saw it, bet it looks awesome.

[Stephen Cohen]

Ausglock hit the nail on the head. There are three elements to fire, heat fuel and oxygen, if you remove any one of them there is no fire. I remember as a young kid everyone did a burn off in the winter months and fire breaks were kept clear but with the rising number of ill informed greenies who consider burning off in a controlled manner to be detrimental to the flora and fauna. I wonder if these same fools have ever seen the destruction a wild fire does to flora and fauna let alone the property and human loss. My thoughts and best wishes are with those who are in these areas. Regards Stephen

[dikman]

Yep, the Greens and their greenie ilk might not be in government but they are certainly infiltrating councils and they would have to be considered prime movers in stopping controlled burning and removal of the dangerous buildup of flammable material. Doesn't bother most of them because they are townies and it makes them feel good.

On a more mundane note, I recently bought some Candy Apple Red from a guy and tried it today. First coat looked like my Bronze, hmmm. Second coat looked like a dark Bronze to me. More hmmm. I did a third coat on one batch, just to see what it would look like. The best way I can describe it is a darkish Bronze, with a slight dark burgundy tinge, and quite shiny. But Candy Apple Red? Don't think so. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't look too bad and should work fine, but I was rather hoping for a red boolit!
Anyone else use it and if so what were your results?

[Ausglock]

Yep, the Greens and their greenie ilk might not be in government but they are certainly infiltrating councils and they would have to be considered prime movers in stopping controlled burning and removal of the dangerous buildup of flammable material. Doesn't bother most of them because they are townies and it makes them feel good.

On a more mundane note, I recently bought some Candy Apple Red from a guy and tried it today. First coat looked like my Bronze, hmmm. Second coat looked like a dark Bronze to me. More hmmm. I did a third coat on one batch, just to see what it would look like. The best way I can describe it is a darkish Bronze, with a slight dark burgundy tinge, and quite shiny. But Candy Apple Red? Don't think so. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't look too bad and should work fine, but I was rather hoping for a red boolit!
Anyone else use it and if so what were your results?

Was that the coating old mate was selling on the AHN forum?
Candy Apple is just that. a sparkly red.
This is Candy Apple red.
https://i.imgur.com/Kcleom3.jpg

[missionary5155]

Good morning
You could sell then as "Prepper Chistmas Ornaments".....

[dikman]

Yep, that's the one. How many coats on those? Mine are a little darker and don't appear to have that slight reddish tinge that yours have. I took a photo, in sunlight, but it didn't look the same as the actual boolits so there's no point in posting it. As I said it's no great drama 'cos they'll still work fine. It's just that I was expecting them to be, well, RED.:grin:

[Stephen Cohen]

Yep, that's the one. How many coats on those? Mine are a little darker and don't appear to have that slight reddish tinge that yours have. I took a photo, in sunlight, but it didn't look the same as the actual boolits so there's no point in posting it. As I said it's no great drama 'cos they'll still work fine. It's just that I was expecting them to be, well, RED.:grin:

I am using Candy apple red at the moment and it turns out as Ausglock shows, of cause how long they are baked and the temp can and does alter colour some what. Regards Stephen

[Petander]

I am using Candy apple red at the moment and it turns out as Ausglock shows, of cause how long they are baked and the temp can and does alter colour some what. Regards Stephen

My first CAR became Deep Purple because my temp is ok but my radiant heat rises bullet temp to 215°C.

That setting gives me crazy good TMG Gold plain base bullets for full power 45-70 and 500 S&W so I"m reluctant to tweak a thing. A little dark is ok.

[wlkjr]

Once you overcook them and they turn dark, additional coats won't achieve the results you are seeking.

[Petander]

TMG Gold heat treated.

https://i.postimg.cc/jq9wMwyd/IMG-20191113-113524.jpg

[Ausglock]

All mine get 2 coats.

[dikman]

Thanks guys, I don't think I'm too far off the mark then, my expectations of a Candy Apple Red were a bit different to the reality. No big deal.

[Tazza]

Thanks guys, I don't think I'm too far off the mark then, my expectations of a Candy Apple Red were a bit different to the reality. No big deal.

I bought 122 red, i had in my head that it was a bright red, turns out to be red to purple, looks awesome, just not what i expected it to be.

If you cook it longer but at a slight;y lower temperature, you may get closer to the desired colour.

[Gremlin460]

On a lighter note

If Hi-tec's shed burns for 10 mins @ 200 , does that mean all the new coating we get is pre cooked?
So we just apply and shoot?

Brisbane and my area is not on fire, but all the grass in every yard is dead. Doubt it will recover.
My pool is dry, I could not afford to keep replenishing the loss of water. Lastly the entire area from here to the coast is under a
perminant smoke haze. Tinder Dry is a poor description of current conditions at the moment.

Mike.

[Tazza]

Oh wow, you really went there? pre-cooked hi-tek

Yeah, my grass is a nice shade of brown, i do have bore water, but no time to get the hose out to try and save it. It will eventually come back in some areas, others it won't.

We had some really nasty days full of smoke haze, yet the sunrise was amazing, it was a ball of bright red

[Petander]

Here is my first cast try with a Model 28. 20 full cylinders of TMG Gold Lee 358 158 RF:s, sized .359, heat treated from 8 to 14 BHN with a 30 min last bake (third coat baked,then ice water dropped). Full house compressed Vihtavuori N110 charge,CCI sp magnum primer.

The three wads close to the rod came from the barrel,the other three cleaned the chambers.

https://i.postimg.cc/0QZ63mK2/IMG-20191115-181137.jpg

Accuracy-wise,I only shot clays and plates but I was generally hitting what I intended to hit. Easy to see in the snow.

[Avenger442]

Got the "Tru Blue" coating from Donnie yesterday. Mixed up a batch this afternoon but have to do other things. May be able to coat tonight or tomorrow. Will try to get some photos up in a few. I'm really excited about this color. Looks fantastic mixed. Mixed it reminds me of the metal flake blue we used to use on our cars. Based on color mixed it should turn out about the blue of Subaru's race team. We will see.

[Petander]

Here are those heat treated TMG Gold bullets again. Overbaked at every step. My VV N110 load in a 20" carbine clocks 1850 fps for the 163 grain Lee. Clean barrel.

https://i.postimg.cc/FRTDPRy5/IMG-20191115-233330.jpg.


I'm working on a Mihec NLG for 357,not quite there yet. This ugly Lee shoots great.

[kevin c]

Got the "Tru Blue" coating from Donnie yesterday...

You must have connections: it's not even up on the web site yet!

[Ausglock]

Got the "Tru Blue" coating from Donnie yesterday. Mixed up a batch this afternoon but have to do other things. May be able to coat tonight or tomorrow. Will try to get some photos up in a few. I'm really excited about this color. Looks fantastic mixed. Mixed it reminds me of the metal flake blue we used to use on our cars. Based on color mixed it should turn out about the blue of Subaru's race team. We will see.

Remember..... no higher temp than 195Deg C. If you have to increase time, do it....but my normal bake time was OK. just drop the temp.

[HI-TEK]

Remember..... no higher temp than 195Deg C. If you have to increase time, do it....but my normal bake time was OK. just drop the temp.


What is most important to remember is, that it is not oven temperature that is most important aspect to monitor.
All coated cast temperature must be monitored in oven, and load must get to 180C, and thereafter stay there or higher for another 2 minutes.
Oven set at 200C, temperatures of loads get up fast, and time in oven versus load temperature becomes more critical to watch.

[Petander]

I mentioned Mihec NLG above.

It's just too small (.359) for the Rossi carbine that I planned it for. Shoots great and clean in a 586, heat treated from 8 to 14 BHN, the last bake being 30 min.

I'm perfectly fine with Chocolate colour, this technique effectively doubles my WW/lino stash,now that I can use more pure (pistol range scrap) in the magnum alloy mix.

https://i.postimg.cc/qBCG7m22/IMG-20191116-153118.jpg

[Tazza]

I still need to find time to gie this a go, if i can increase BHN for rifle projectiles, it will be very handy.

[Stephen Cohen]

I still need to find time to gie this a go, if i can increase BHN for rifle projectiles, it will be very handy.

I find that wheel weight alloy with a little tin added more than enough for my 458 WM and 357 max rifles, I drive 500gr Lee GC at 1,700 fps that enough pain for me and the 357 max 158gr Lee pb at 2, 200fps both group into 1'' at 100mtrs, even my 375 Whelen shoots this alloy at 1,800fps with similar accuracy. I do think the smaller 30 cal down may well need a harder alloy. I must say that my tests have shown uncoated and lube filled cast are a waste of time accuracy wise in my rifles. Regards Stephen

[Tazza]

My mad mates want to try .30 cal in their .300 black out rifles. I have a 230 grain mould from a mad mate to try out, it' made to take gas checks, i hoped to not need to gas check, but it may be needed for rifles, cheaper than jacketed hopefully depending on what gas checks are worth.

[Stephen Cohen]

My mad mates want to try .30 cal in their .300 black out rifles. I have a 230 grain mould from a mad mate to try out, it' made to take gas checks, i hoped to not need to gas check, but it may be needed for rifles, cheaper than jacketed hopefully depending on what gas checks are worth.

I have a Martini Cadet I chambered for the 300 Blackout its a gift for my grandson. That weight of bullet would be subsonic and would not need a gas check buy if you wanted to try some gas checks I could send you a few to try. For all intents the 300 Blackout is a smaller diameter 357 max, in fact I run 357 max shells into the Blackout dies to make rimmed Blackout. Regards Stephen

[Avenger442]

I use clip on wheel weights with a little tin in it for a BHN of 12-14 in my .308 Vanguard and Remington 700. The bullet is a 160gr Lee with gas check. Actual weight is around 165 gr.+/- FPS is 2500+. Three coats 1035 Gold. There is no problem with leading and accuracy is good 1 1/2"- 1" at 100 yards. If I use this bullet without the gas check at anything around the same FPS it will lead the barrel and very bad accuracy. Only tried no gas check once and never got back to trying it at lower FPS. Not sure but probably gas cutting the end of the bullet with no gas check.

Trevor,

I've been meaning to ask this question for a long time of you especially and others on the thread that go for color. When do you start to time the bake?

Keep in mind I'm not using a very expensive set up. But an oven with good air circulation. It is PID controlled. What, in general, the hobbyist would use.
I pre-heat my oven to the bake temp. long enough to also heat up the brick in the bottom. Then I place the load in the oven wait till it recovers to the targeted bake temp. and then start the time. I have been doing this for the 1035 Gold at between 195 and 200C for twelve minutes. That gives me a little darker color. When I was running some test on some other colors I did experiment with lower temps. and times to achieve what you were showing as color.

I've never seen, that I remember, anyone clarify when to start the time. I just guessed that it would start when the oven recovered to temp. I am not only using the PID but a thermometer in the oven to verify temp. I generally over bake since most of the time I don't care about the color but only the performance. But the Tru Blue is going to change that.

The first try was when the oven reached 195C and baked for seven min. That temp and time gave me blue but was not cured enough. Put those back in for another three min. and they were starting to turn a blue green. Going to try a lower bake temp, probably 190C, and ten minutes today to see if I can get the blue and cure. I'm using smaller loads than normal in the oven, around one pound, until I get the color right. Usually use three pound loads. And can baked as much as nine pounds in this oven. Large loads have very little impact on the color and none on cure with the 195 -200C and twelve min.

[Petander]

I find that wheel weight alloy with a little tin added more than enough for my 458 WM and 357 max rifles, I drive 500gr Lee GC at 1,700 fps that enough pain for me and the 357 max 158gr Lee pb at 2, 200fps both group into 1'' at 100mtrs, even my 375 Whelen shoots this alloy at 1,800fps with similar accuracy. I do think the smaller 30 cal down may well need a harder alloy. I must say that my tests have shown uncoated and lube filled cast are a waste of time accuracy wise in my rifles. Regards Stephen

One MOA with cast makes Markku a jealous boy.

We are around the same BHN then, you maybe 12-13. 14-16 or so is good for me 45-70 / 500 S&W / 357 Mag. I load full power. I'm just making that 14 BHN from WW/Pure to save WW which can't be found around here anymore.

Having said that,I just cooked one hour and 460°F for some 25 BHN bullets. Tried them in a Rossi 357 carbine and got much more leading than the same bullet at 14 bhn,same "full" load. I'm bad at pounding or smashing or hammering things into my guns so I can't really slug them... ... I find my size by trying sizes... This Rossi may need a .362 bullet or something. Hard .360 was leading with 50 rounds. Accuracy didn't suffer at that point but too much lead IMO. 14 BHN has been almost clean. Barrel may be as rough as the whole gun... Gun is not mine but may become mine,it's a warranty return problem,not worth sending back to Brazil.

https://i.postimg.cc/jqHB05Nm/IMG-20191118-134639.jpg

[Ausglock]

Trevor,

I've been meaning to ask this question for a long time of you especially and others on the thread that go for color. When do you start to time the bake?


With the smaller benchtop convection ovens:

I place a tray of bullets on top of the oven and plug it in and turn on.
I wait until the oven gets to temp and starts to cycle on the thermostat.
I place the tray from on top of the oven into the oven and start the timer.
Then place the next tray of bullets on top of the oven to warm for the next into the oven.
12 minutes with a benchtop oven, working this way gives uniform colour.
I have 4 of these benchtop ovens working this way, side by side and very little colour difference.
All ovens have had the thermostats replaced with capillary bulb types and give excellent results.
I have a stand alone digital countdown timer and once every tray is inserted, the timer is started.
this gives 1000 baked per 12 minutes.

[Tazza]

Thanks for the info Stephen, i'll have to just fiddle to see how they perform. They were all to be sub sonic loads, the hope was i could get away without using gas checks, but i thought i heard shooting projectiles made for gas checks without them gave poor accuracy, even at lower speeds. This is something i'm going to just have to test out. They are a little heavier than we wanted, we were wanting about 160 grains

[dikman]

Petander, you don't slug your barrels? I'm surprised, given how much experimenting you obviously do. It's easy, use a pure lead boolit, oil the barrel and ram it down.

Avenger, like Trevor, once the oven is at temp. in go the boolits and on goes the timer. I just assumed everyone did it this way?

[Tazza]

Petander, you don't slug your barrels? I'm surprised, given how much experimenting you obviously do. It's easy, use a pure lead boolit, oil the barrel and ram it down.

Avenger, like Trevor, once the oven is at temp. in go the boolits and on goes the timer. I just assumed everyone did it this way?

I get my oven to temperature, load the trays in, then start the 12 minute timer. I'm mainly running K15 black, so getting the colour right, really isn't an issue :)

With the 122 red, i get pretty consistent colours using the same method. If i used a lighter colour, i'd need to be far more careful with temperatures. I'd try a slightly lower temperature for longer to cure it, but keep the colour right.

[HI-TEK]

The first try was when the oven reached 195C and baked for seven min. That temp and time gave me blue but was not cured enough. Put those back in for another three min. and they were starting to turn a blue green. Going to try a lower bake temp, probably 190C, and ten minutes today to see if I can get the blue and cure. I'm using smaller loads than normal in the oven, around one pound, until I get the color right. Usually use three pound loads. And can baked as much as nine pounds in this oven. Large loads have very little impact on the color and none on cure with the 195 -200C and twelve min.

Avenger,
For my two bobs worth, I did cover the temperature matters only a few blogs ago.
It seems to me, that majority are fixated on oven temperatures.

How did you determine that it was not cured enough, after baking the Blue?

Again I stress, it is the load temperature in oven that has to be monitored.
Repeat, all Hi-Tek coatings, once they reach 180C will cure within 2 minutes after reaching 180C.

Oven matter;..... Small ovens temperature controls are very poor quality. You can get swings of plus or minus 50C inside the oven. What is being measured, is the "average" air temperatures inside oven, and not the load temperatures.
Repeat...….the load in the oven must get to 180C and stay there or above for about 2 more minutes.

If oven is set to 200C, it is quite possible that the load can get to 200Plus quite quickly, and that is why colours become more damaged or darker that what is required. This is particularly noticeable with the Reds, (and now with the Blue)
The load does not need to get to 200C for the coating to correctly cure.

Trevor has very good set up with controllers, and ovens set at 200C, he has had loads come out of the oven at 205C after 7.5 minutes. He has tweaked his temperatures to better control his load temperatures and produce very even colours between batches.

If ovens are set at 190C, depending on size of the load placed into the oven, it may take a little more time to get that load to 180C.
This is reason why the Load temperature must be monitored.
It is the load temperature at certain point, will decide just how long a particular load will take to get to required 180C. Once load is at 180C, then keep it there for another 2 minutes.

NOTE over baking coatings only changes final colours. It does not affect coating for end use.

[Petander]

Petander, you don't slug your barrels? I'm surprised, given how much experimenting you obviously do. It's easy, use a pure lead boolit, oil the barrel and ram it down.


Sounds easy. I've seen guns were people removed/tried to remove stuck bullets and I've sort of decided I'll never pound anything in my barrels, voluntarily. Ruined barrels,broken stocks,one pistol barrel was drilled...crooked of course. I have it as a reminder how NOT to treat barrels...A gunsmith with proper tools,vices,slugs,rods and presses can determine barrel size for me if necessary.

And I like to shoot the slugs because I will experiment with many (also in-between) sizes anyway. I do check revolver throats to see if a particular gun is a candidate for cast to begin with. In most (revolver) cases the barrel size doesn't matter to me,my bullets (often) being slightly over the throat size.

That Rossi in a pic above would probably shake in pieces with any "pounding". The barrel should be removed at least. And the idea of a metal rod pounding the inside... I'm of great minority here and very wrong but just can't do that. A barrel is a woman.

[Tazza]

I have heard of people using a very low charge and a pile of rags to capture a soft projectile to measure it. The issue is, i get told that if you go too low you can cause pressure spikes, not sure if that's true or not.

I too don't like the idea of pounding a projectile out, only ever do it when i manage to try and fire a round that has no powder in it :(

[slide]

Avenger442,I sent you a pm.

[Avenger442]

Joe
Acetone on a paper towel and rubbing the bullet for about 30 seconds is how I check for cure. If I get complete removal down to the lead it failed. I have used bullets that just had a little color come off on the towel but didn't remove the coating down to the lead. They shot fine.

Have read all the post and appreciate the replys.

As I said I don't usually care about the color, so. I have a hollow point .357 bullet in my oven right now that has been there through about 30 bake cycles. It is good and dark but have no doubt it would perform if loaded. After it sits there a little longer I'll test it. I believe that Trevor has already done this with no problem.

Petander,
You probably already know this, but you make them too hard the bullet may not obturate and seal of to the barrel to prevent gas cutting.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Avenger442;4765819]Joe
Acetone on a paper towel and rubbing the bullet for about 30 seconds is how I check for cure. If I get complete removal down to the lead it failed. I have used bullets that just had a little color come off on the towel but didn't remove the coating down to the lead. They shot fine.

Have read all the post and appreciate the replys.

As I said I don't usually care about the color, so. I have a hollow point .357 bullet in my oven right now that has been there through about 30 bake cycles. It is good and dark but have no doubt it would perform if loaded. After it sits there a little longer I'll test it. I believe that Trevor has already done this with no problem.

Avenger,
It may be possible to rub off some fine blisters from coating when using paper towel and it shows up as colour. Paper can abrasive if you continue to rub for 30 seconds.
I have to assume, that solvent test was done after last coat was finished.

With Blue, Trevor posted details, that he baked twice coated product, and oven was set at 190C, and they came out of the oven at 195C after 7 1/2 minutes.
They remained Blue.
I was simply trying to get a message through, that it is more important to monitor the coated cast temperatures inside oven, instead of monitoring oven temperatures.
Monitoring Oven temperatures will not tell user the actual temperature of the load inside the oven.

[Tazza]

You will always have hot spots in an oven, that's why you make sure to tell people to enure the load reaches 180c for at least 2 minutes.

I get slight black marks on my acetone wipe tests, but i know that this is just dust from when they were scooped up after drying, or little bumps on the projectile coming off, nothing to worry about. I did have a failed bake when i messed with my oven temperature and didn't notice, they were under cooked, i could see they didn't look right or sound right when being poured into a bucket from the tray, almost like they were tacky still. Wipe test took them back to shiny metal. Re-cooked and they were perfect.

To coat, I shake and drop out on laminated MDF to dry, then scoop up and put measured amounts on trays to cook, it's a different way than others use, but it works 100% for me.

i cook for 12 minutes at 200c in a house oven, If i go much shorter, it hasn't gotten the load hot enough to cure 100%. The time i tried to put more in each batch, i found that on re-coating that some would look very pale, this was me washing the initial un-cured coat and applying a new coat. Putting fewer on each tray solved this issue.

[HI-TEK]

You will always have hot spots in an oven, that's why you make sure to tell people to enure the load reaches 180c for at least 2 minutes.

Right on Tazza. The other matter is that aside from air temperature in oven, if load is too close to heating elements you get radiant heat going into the load. As a result, the top layer can be over baked and have a different colour to bottom layers as top layer becomes much hotter with the radiant heat .

i cook for 12 minutes at 200c in a house oven, If i go much shorter, it hasn't gotten the load hot enough to cure 100%. The time i tried to put more in each batch, i found that on re-coating that some would look very pale, this was me washing the initial un-cured coat and applying a new coat. Putting fewer on each tray solved this issue.

Again Right on. The solvent test was directly aimed at determining if previous coat was set adequately with baking. Coating with next coat onto under cured previous coat, will simply strip off uncured coating and will make a mess

Using sandwich toaster ovens can work as long as user works out what that oven will cope with, and keep in mind, that once they get good results, simply record details that worked, and reproduce it.

[dikman]

Petander, I use a steel rod with a brass tip screwed on the end and a nylon guide at the muzzle, so no steel-to-steel contact. Ever. And yes, I've had to use them with the occasional stuck round due to low/missing powder.:roll:

[Stephen Cohen]

Thanks for the info Stephen, i'll have to just fiddle to see how they perform. They were all to be sub sonic loads, the hope was i could get away without using gas checks, but i thought i heard shooting projectiles made for gas checks without them gave poor accuracy, even at lower speeds. This is something i'm going to just have to test out. They are a little heavier than we wanted, we were wanting about 160 grains

I have several 30 calibre moulds in the 160 to 200 grain range if your stuck for some. I have shot gas check design minus check with no problems, the only exception to that rule is my 458 WM it just shoots way better with checks as does a mates 458 WM. My brother shoots my 320gr .452 plain base cast in his 460 SW revolver at just under 2,000 fps no leading and great accuracy. I don't put all these great results down to my outstanding casting skill, I thank the Hi-Tek gods as that is why I have great results. Regards Stephen

[Petander]

Petander, I use a steel rod with a brass tip screwed on the end and a nylon guide at the muzzle, so no steel-to-steel contact. Ever. And yes, I've had to use them with the occasional stuck round due to low/missing powder.:roll:

Me too,similar rods and VFG felt wads. Bearings in the handles,too.

A stuck bullet can often be removed by dropping the rod from 1" height to the bullet base , instead of "pounding". Light tapping lets the bullet move in the groove instead of being hammered tighter,straight.

Since discovering Hi Tek, I don't use gas checks either. Having said that, I just got a gc mold today.

https://i.postimg.cc/65w9WxS1/IMG-20191119-154638-191.jpg

[Tazza]

I have several 30 calibre moulds in the 160 to 200 grain range if your stuck for some. I have shot gas check design minus check with no problems, the only exception to that rule is my 458 WM it just shoots way better with checks as does a mates 458 WM. My brother shoots my 320gr .452 plain base cast in his 460 SW revolver at just under 2,000 fps no leading and great accuracy. I don't put all these great results down to my outstanding casting skill, I thank the Hi-Tek gods as that is why I have great results. Regards Stephen

Glad that you have had good results from running projectiles made for gas checks without them and they shoot just fine, i'll get some of these cast over Xmas to see how they go with and without gas checks. I don't think they will be used out to really long distances, so if they are not spot on, it's not too horrible. My mad mate said he is running cheap jacketed at about 25c each, but if cast works, that will cut it down even more. Just means we can shoot it more for less :)

[Petander]

Glad that you have had good results from running projectiles made for gas checks without them and they shoot just fine, i'll get some of these cast over Xmas to see how they go with and without gas checks. I don't think they will be used out to really long distances, so if they are not spot on, it's not too horrible. My mad mate said he is running cheap jacketed at about 25c each, but if cast works, that will cut it down even more. Just means we can shoot it more for less :)

Following.

I'm going to compare no gc / gc in revolvers with the above bullet.