simple Hi-Tek coating

[Ausglock]

Will check with my supplier.

[slide]

Thanks Joe ! I can buy MEK for around $20.00 U.S. For whatever reason the Lee 158 grain tumble lube bullet shoots the best in my guns. Go figure! Using acetone it takes four to five coats to get those tiny grooves covered. With MEK it takes two. I know the grooves don't need to be covered but it drive me nuts if not. Acetone is a dollar a gallon cheaper. A gallon will last me quite a while so using two coats compared to four I am probably coming out about the same price wise. I don't like the smell either,thats why I put on a respriator before mixing or coating.

[Avenger442]

Slide
I've found that Hi Tek on Lee tumble lube bullets work well in my handguns, too. Was looking at some photos of targets this morning and it seems they work well in the .308. Just not quite as well the Lee 309 160 CR.

[Petander]

A substitute is... a substitute. Not the real thing.

I used to make some diluted mixes (acetone + denatured alcohol) for longer swirls/groove fill up. Ended up with many bottles. Nowadays all my bottles are full strength to avoid confusion, it's easy to add a required amount of alcohol to the bowl just before you add the actual coating solution.

Now being extremely dry winter weather I add approx 4 ml alc to 10 ml of coating solution for 10 pounds of bullets. Gives me 30 seconds to swirl.

[slide]

Hey Avenger 442, hope you and yours are doing ok. It is strange about the Lee bullet. I have molds from Mihec and Noe. That Lee bullet outshoots them all. Now, that is my guns. However, if you remember the test we ran with hi-tek and powdercoat the Mihec hollow base wadcutter was real close. That is a lot of the fun, trying new stuff. The learning never stops. Onward and upward!

[slide]

Avenger442, sending you an e mail

[Tazza]

Tazza, try a company called REDOX Chemicals, their Acetone is in 44's but is much cheaper. It is worth the investment.

I'll look them up and see what they can do, i'll need to step up my casting/copating to use more acetone :)

[Avenger442]

Yeah Slide still kicking here.

It is funny how you can spend more money sometimes without getting any benefit. The Lee molds are comparatively cheap. I've never been disappointed with the ones I have used. Even the old hollow point molds. But you are right that Mihec hollow base wadcutter is a good one. Nice tight groups out of the .357. I've still got their website pulled up on a tab in my computer.

Got a $133 NOE mold off of Ebay last week for $89 and free shipping. It's a very heavy hollow point or flat point bullet for the .308. You can walk into a deal sometimes. I had to go to a 1989 loading manual to find loads for it.

[Petander]

I mentioned diluting Hi Tek full strenghth down to 1/4 strength with denatured alcohol,to fill grooves and hp:s.

Here are slugs that got their second TMG Gold coat like that,they were swimming and swirling for a while. Coating is everywhere. I pour the used, thinned liquid back in another bottle to be used again.


http://i65.tinypic.com/zjyz47.jpg.

The first and third coats were normal with a little added alcohol.

[Tazza]

Sure gives an awesome coat with being thinned down.

Those look like a real mean slug. They sure would make a mess of anything they hit.

[Petander]

These break in pieces and don't penetrate.

Much safer for practise, most normal slugs keep going forever.

Safety slug... Varmint slug...

[Tazza]

Good point, best have it break up.

What targets do you use them on? For our shotgun area, we really can only shoot clays (not an option for solids) and paper, we have no steel poppers on that range that we can use them on.

[Petander]

Mostly paper and clays. Some places steel,not poppers though.

But I've had this mold only for a short while, I don't have "the load" yet. Sort of a special slug, Lyman style wad slugs are easier to cast and load.

But we'll see.

[Tazza]

I didn't even think of the fact that after it passes through the paper, it will split open when hitting the backstop or dirt.

The guys that want slugs done, i'm not sure they are going to reload as such, they hope to cut the crimp off, remove pellets and load a solid. As long as they are careful with the factory charge to solid choice, they feel it should be ok.

The mould i have is from Russia, looks fiddly to use, but hopefully i get to play on the weekend to see what i can cast.

[Petander]

The guys that want slugs done, i'm not sure they are going to reload as such, they hope to cut the crimp off, remove pellets and load a solid. As long as they are careful with the factory charge to solid choice, they feel it should be ok. .

That's how I make my "Economy slugs". Since the 90's.

There's lots of talk about these molds in the shotgun subforum.

[HI-TEK]

I mentioned diluting Hi Tek full strenghth down to 1/4 strength with denatured alcohol,to fill grooves and hp:s.

Here are slugs that got their second TMG Gold coat like that,they were swimming and swirling for a while. Coating is everywhere. I pour the used, thinned liquid back in another bottle to be used again.


http://i65.tinypic.com/zjyz47.jpg.

The first and third coats were normal with a little added alcohol.


Where did the picture GO????? All I can see is an X. why????

[Gremlin460]

[QUOTE=Ausglock;4578394]Joe????? Kind????? Friendly????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
You funny......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Bloody grumpy old Hungarian/ Australian.

I haven't told you until now, the Kryptonite green is no longer available ....lol...lol...lol

Thanks for the Green Joe, I will put it to good use.!!

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=HI-TEK;4578396]

Thanks for the Green Joe, I will put it to good use.!!

NO Problems at all.

I am a bit confused, which one of 4 I sent, are you now using? Zombie, Lime Green, Dark Green,
Dark Green Metallic?

[Petander]

Where did the picture GO????? All I can see is an X. why????.


The hosting site says that Guru is meditating.

236543

[Burnt Fingers]

[QUOTE=Gremlin460;4582053]

NO Problems at all.

I am a bit confused, which one of 4 I sent, are you now using? Zombie, Lime Green, Dark Green,
Dark Green Metallic?

Lime green? I've got every color of Hi-Tek available in the US and would love to see a Lime Green.

[Conditor22]

http://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/hi-tek-supercoat-powder-3-5-oz-container/

available in US

[Stoney Cahill]

hey Aus. this is my first post been reading for a long time and learning. Over here in the states Donnie names all of the colors, the 254 red you used for the Deadpool bullets do you know what it is called here in the states?

[Stoney Cahill]

For all of you coating gurus, i do need to pick your brain on one problem. A little back ground me and a buddy have been coating for 2+ years we started with Bronze, we have used and have most of the colors that donnie sales. Never have we had any of the bullets not pass the smash or wipe test, out lead is range recover.

The only issue we have ever had was with the bronze, it is rough when baked, all the other colors we have used were awsome and so smooth it is hard to grab them. We have adjusted the mix using Denatured Alky, adjusted swril time, adjusted and used lighter coats, it always comes out rough, can someone give us some other ideas to try?

[Conditor22]

Welcome to CB stoney

Don't tumble/swirl them as long. IF the sound changes you waited too long. Swirling to long usually is the cause of rough coating 10-15 seconds is enough.

If you are coating a lot I'd suggest making a coating machine like a 2-gallon cement mixer with a couple nylon agitators.

[Stephen Cohen]

I had the same problem with bronze and I add 20mil more acetone to the mix and swirl much less and dump, I also let my coated cast dry overnight if I can, if doing a large batch I have a tray sitting on top of my oven getting warmed while oven is cooking a batch. The rough coat has no ill effect on accuracy that I have found. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

G'day Stoney.
Mate, Not sure if Donnie has Red 254. It's not a bad colour, But I personally like the Candy Apple due to it being a Metallic.
Lime Green is a Mystery to me too. Joe must have been keeping it a secret.

[Tazza]

G'day Stoney.
Mate, Not sure if Donnie has Red 254. It's not a bad colour, But I personally like the Candy Apple due to it being a Metallic.
Lime Green is a Mystery to me too. Joe must have been keeping it a secret.

I think Joe is keeping it from you cause of you giving him lip :)

[Stoney Cahill]

G'day Stoney.
Mate, Not sure if Donnie has Red 254. It's not a bad colour, But I personally like the Candy Apple due to it being a Metallic.
Lime Green is a Mystery to me too. Joe must have been keeping it a secret.

Our favorite up to this point has been black cherry we have done some mad science stuff and mixed colors and have a couple that we are trying to duplicate in a larger oven and larger batches. We coated yesterday and used Candy apple yesterday and tried to dead pool with the candy apple it was ok but not as good as yours.

[Stoney Cahill]

I had the same problem with bronze and I add 20mil more acetone to the mix and swirl much less and dump, I also let my coated cast dry overnight if I can, if doing a large batch I have a tray sitting on top of my oven getting warmed while oven is cooking a batch. The rough coat has no ill effect on accuracy that I have found. Regards Stephen

I will try the extra 20mil. We did change up our swirl time yesterday we are dumping much wetter than before and we do large batches running 2 trays at 15lb per tray. Our oven is a house hold oven that was given to us and it dose great for the most part, no fan so we do have some trays that are different colors when they come out,

We will spend a weekend casting and then get together and coat and size, the next weekend. Normally we are cooking 10 min cooling 10 min with a fan on the bullets so we run the trays quick. we are finishing up our own sizer now, have to automate the sizing due to the amount of bullets we produce, all of this is for ourselves we shoot Cowboy action and Wildbunch and do go through the lead. We shoot em and then a couple of times a year go out and get them back and recast them and shoot em again.

From day one we have never had a bullet fail the wipe or smash, and never had any leading issues at all. This is one great coating, I will keep my fingers crossed a blue or purple shows up one day the wife wants purple or pink to shoot LOL

[Petander]

I just happened to look into my 12 gauge barrel today,made me laugh aloud:

The barrel looks as if it was just cleaned,cleaned very well. I have been shooting various fullbore slugs lately, full power often approaching 1500 fps ,Vihtavuori N340 . All the old lead/plastic deposits (there must have been some, I don't clean that shotgun very often) have gone, just by shooting ~ 150 Hi Teked fullbore slugs during the week.

This is just great,in addition to all the clean,lead-free handling attaching wads etc,the barrel gets cleaned up by shooting.


Oh,the slug velocity spread has been minimal by the way.

236731

[Stoney Cahill]

I know someone here has tried this, who's has tried to coat shotgun shot? We have just started making our own and dialing in the process and was thinking why not we have every thing.

[OldBearHair]

Coat shotgun shot? Should be as simple as me coating .177 pellets so you don't have to handle lead dust each time you load a round. I have a post with pictures somewhere here.

[Petander]

I know someone here has tried this, who's has tried to coat shotgun shot? .

TMG Gold tungsten shot #6, Zombie Green #4 buck.

236852.

236853

[Stoney Cahill]

Petander.

Did you do anything special? My buddy I do this with is not convinced it can be done. We are dropping our own shot right now have droppers running 7.5 and 8's

[dikman]

Petander, is there anything you haven't tried to coat?:lol::lol:

[Petander]

Petander.

Did you do anything special?


Not really.I use some added denatured alcohol for slower evaporation. I dry my shot on a flat pan on top of an oven,the dried shot sticks together a little but a little shake is enough to separate it before baking. I then bake in the same pan.

[Petander]

Petander, is there anything you haven't tried to coat?:lol::lol:

My cat. But I'm working on it.

236876

[Gremlin460]

[QUOTE=Gremlin460;4582053]

NO Problems at all.

I am a bit confused, which one of 4 I sent, are you now using? Zombie, Lime Green, Dark Green,
Dark Green Metallic?

Sorry for the late reply Joe, been busy with a few projects. I picked up a pair of 60KG buckets of CoWW will smelt that lot into igots and try a second batch of Lime Green. The blue/Green worked fine. I got 2 weeks off from shooting. ISSF comp has shut the range down .
Will get back to you ASAP.

[kevin c]

My cat. But I'm working on it.

236876
Good mouser. My wife won't have a cat for fear of the "gifts" that will be presented to us with great pride.

[Petander]

Good mouser. My wife won't have a cat for fear of the "gifts" that will be presented to us with great pride.

I never meant to get a cat. But this half-wild creature moved in our house last fall,it took a few weeks to even touch it. One day he walked inside and here he is.

I've had german shepherds for 25 years,lost the best one ever last summer. So we decided no dog for at least a year... and now this. I'm getting softer year by year,normally these creatures should be eliminated from the woods by any means.

But it's not the cats' fault,it's us humans who leave them out in the wild. They face a slow, horrible death in winter, before that they kill everything they can. And yes,they can.

[Tazza]

My parents got at least 2 dogs like this, they just arrived at the door and their face said, i live here now. One was the nicest puppy/dog you could ever have. We think he was a cross between a Labrador and a rottweiler. Rottie colours, but the temperament of a Labrador. He lived with us for a good 15 years before he died.

I agree, when domestic pets are left to fend for them selves and turn wild, they really need to be eradicated. Cats kill so many wild animals.

[Ausglock]

same here. An old cat followed Mum home from the phone box down the bottom of the street back in '83 he just walked in and plopped down on the lounge room floor. Decided to stay until his passing in '92.
We named him Dibble, cause the ABC news was on the telly when he walked in and James Dibble was reading the news.

He was a spiteful old bugger. Didn't like getting locked out of a night and he would sit on the gatepost and harass any dogs that walked up the footpath.
RIP Dibble.

[Tazza]

When my brother and I were being dropped off to school, i think i must have been in grade 2, my brother in pre-school, a black mangy kitten came up to my mum, it came home with her, and had a pretty good life. She wasn't the most friendly cat, but didn't rip you to shreds when in a bad mood :)

[Gatch]

Hi gents

A bit of a thread hijack I know, but what molds are you blokes using for IPSC (I'm shooting production with a shadow 2) here in aus ? I'm currently using tigershark plated 147rn, but am suuuper keen to cast and coat my own.. I'd be keen on keeping a similar heavy slug. At this stage I'm looking at mp molds, or an accurate mold, in 6 or 8 cav. I emailed cbe but he won't do anything more than a 3cavity..

Also what are the best/easiest hitek colours to use ?

Further, could I convince anyone in Bris to hook me up with 50 or so cast and coated to try out ? Beer tokens provided...

[Tazza]

Ah, based in brisbane too! What club do you freequent? you are more than welcome to a hand full of mine to try out. The alloy i use is a bit softer, but i have never had leading issues. The next batch i make will be a bit harder though, just did 500 odd kg of range scrap with some lino added to bring it up a bit more.

I use 2 cavity moulds, so my advise may not be suited to you. I personally use magma 125 conicals in my STI, others like heavier, very few seem to use 147s in standard 9mm or .38, but they do get used in .357 sig. I sell 147s to only one guy (RARELY) that uses them for 9mm, everyone else uses 125 or 135 in their shadow 2.

I liked the K15 black, mainly because the previous coating was also black, i used Red 122 and REALLY liked it, it looks awesome. The good thing about the black, if you over bake, it doesn't get any darker :)

[Ausglock]

Gatch.
We make 135gn RN and 150gn RN for 9mm Minor in CZ SP-01's Shadows etc etc.
CZ's like .357 Dia.

We are Susan Island Bullets. You probably have seen our Green bullets getting around the ranges.

K15 Black is easy to start out on, as overbaking doesn't hurt the colour.

Tigersharks? hahahahahahahaha... Ask Victor Oliveria what he thinks of them...hahahahaha

[Tazza]

Are tiger shark really that bad? i have heard a few nasty stories, but hoped that was just one batch that they messed up.

Yet a know people that promote their projectiles and have no issues, but the competition level we shoot, if they aren't perfect, no one notices with how many misses we get anyway :)

[Gatch]

Cheers for the quick replies gents.

I shoot at COBPC at belmont. I've only been licensed a few months so don't really know much about who supplies what etc. I haven't had any quality/price issues with the tigersharks. It's just the projectile cost is 3/4 of my reloading cost and I know I can make this muuch cheaper in the long run making my own. Which will let me practice more..

With the 145 they only have to do 900 fps or so, so could probably make them from nearly anything. I'll be using wheel weights anyhow. I can get my hands on half a ton on the way home from work if I want :D

[Tazza]

I'll have to beat you to the wheel weights :)

I'm at SSAA Belmont, you you are just around the corner from my club, entry off Belmont rd instead of old cleveland.

[Stoney Cahill]

I have close friends that live in Aus. can the coating be brought back on the airlines? packed in a bag ect. would not mind getting some colors we dont have here

[Gatch]

I had a quick look for your susan island bullets ausglock. They look schmick in that green. I also noticed in the search that black widow does a 180gr rn, advertised as 9mm/38. Could you even squeeze them into a 9mm chamber ? Surely a slug that size is 38/357 only ?

[Tazza]

Joe posts it internationally, so i see no reason why not. It is in powder form, so not dangerous goods.

[Tazza]

I run .357 projectiles in 9mm and .38 super that run a .356 chamber without issues.

[Ausglock]

I had a quick look for your susan island bullets ausglock. They look schmick in that green. I also noticed in the search that black widow does a 180gr rn, advertised as 9mm/38. Could you even squeeze them into a 9mm chamber ? Surely a slug that size is 38/357 only ?

The largest you can safely get in a 9mm case is 160gn RN. Due to the taper on the case, the bullet bulges the sidewalls about 2/3 of the way down. I have run a few 168ZK in 9mm. They are a conical flat point. But accuracy in 9mm was horrible that was with 2gn AS-30.

Most 9mm bullets over 150gn Are made for use in 357Sig for IPSC Std Div major loads. We do a 185gn FP and it shoots great in 357Sig.

I have a heap of Lee 6 cavity hand molds with handles here that I want to move on. There are 3x 6 cav 124gn RN and 3x 120gn Conical molds as well as a heap of others in 40,44 and 45. If you want to see them, flick me a PM and I can email photos to you. I haven't used them for like 5 years. just have them in storage.

[dansedgli]

I shoot a 122 flat point in my shadow 2. Pretty accurate. Pretty easy to shoot 2 inch groups at 25m with a red dot on it.

[Gatch]

The largest you can safely get in a 9mm case is 160gn RN. Due to the taper on the case, the bullet bulges the sidewalls about 2/3 of the way down. I have run a few 168ZK in 9mm. They are a conical flat point. But accuracy in 9mm was horrible that was with 2gn AS-30.

Most 9mm bullets over 150gn Are made for use in 357Sig for IPSC Std Div major loads. We do a 185gn FP and it shoots great in 357Sig.

I have a heap of Lee 6 cavity hand molds with handles here that I want to move on. There are 3x 6 cav 124gn RN and 3x 120gn Conical molds as well as a heap of others in 40,44 and 45. If you want to see them, flick me a PM and I can email photos to you. I haven't used them for like 5 years. just have them in storage.

What would you let one of those 124 rn go for ?

[Tazza]

The 124 lee ones are good, i have 2. Used them for the first time in 15 odd years 2 weeks ago to test bhn of a lead blend. Now they will no doubt sit in storage for another 15 years :)

[Ausglock]

With this setup...
https://i.imgur.com/X7XZiQO.jpg

I could run 3 Six cavity molds at once without stopping.
https://i.imgur.com/k8HbkbC.jpg

[hunter74]

Many of the IPSC guys up here tend to like heavy boolits in the 9 for major. They shoot a lot of Magma 147 gr Hi-Tek coated.

Sent fra min SM-G930F via Tapatalk

[Gremlin460]

I had a quick look for your susan island bullets ausglock. They look schmick in that green. I also noticed in the search that black widow does a 180gr rn, advertised as 9mm/38. Could you even squeeze them into a 9mm chamber ? Surely a slug that size is 38/357 only ?

I dont shoot with the riff-raff at belmont, shoot down the GCPC (where else!) , I stuff 358 down a stainless tube 200 300 times a week with no issues. :)
Just brought a huge bucket of WW home Tazza... just thought I'd mention that in passing :P
Also be home this Sat if you not shootin Tazz.

Gatch if you ever around Waterford way give us a hoy , I can give you a couple of handfulls of 9mm in Bronze or red copper to try...

Caio for now
Mike

[Stoney Cahill]

Joe posts it internationally, so i see no reason why not. It is in powder form, so not dangerous goods.

Awesome now who will be willing to post pics of the colors we don’t have here in the USA? I will talk with my friends and see how to purchase the coating and get it shipped to them.

[Tazza]

I dont shoot with the riff-raff at belmont, shoot down the GCPC (where else!) , I stuff 358 down a stainless tube 200 300 times a week with no issues. :)
Just brought a huge bucket of WW home Tazza... just thought I'd mention that in passing :P
Also be home this Sat if you not shootin Tazz.

Gatch if you ever around Waterford way give us a hoy , I can give you a couple of handfulls of 9mm in Bronze or red copper to try...

Caio for now
Mike

Oh, you lead tease!

A few months ago, i got my paws on a few drums of Lino, i just need some decently priced lead to blend it with, the scrappies are bandits for sheet lead. The range scrap was free, but a lot of work to collect and blend with a little lino to harden it up, but did i mention it was free? it only took me a few days to process.....

Belmont is where all the COOL kids play :) or more to the point, where I started and just can't be bothered finding another club..... It's close to me, and for the disciplines i shoot, i like the people, other ones that i will not mention, are stuck up and i won't shoot with them.

[Ausglock]

Taz. I have a metric schitload of pure lead. Don't use it anymore.
25Kg pigs all the way down to 1Lb ingots.

[Tazza]

I assume you used to blend your own before you started buying the "real stuff" ?

We may have to have a chat when i actually have some spare cash, last Saturday, we signed papers for a new place to live, so gotta sort out a loan and get my old joint sold :( gonna be so very poor but will actually have room to do all my casting at home, not at my parentals place.

[Michael J. Spangler]

With this setup...
https://i.imgur.com/X7XZiQO.jpg

I could run 3 Six cavity molds at once without stopping.
https://i.imgur.com/k8HbkbC.jpg

I thought about doing the same piggyback thing at one point but realized that running one pot down low, I could add alloy and switch off to a second pot without having to piggyback. BY the time I drain the second pot the first one is back up to temp. A little different way to skin the cat. 2 pots is a must when running multiple 6 bangers.

[dikman]

Just curious about these large quantities of WWs you chaps are talking about - how much is usable lead? I gave up on WW a few years ago as the last lot I got had very little lead in it, most were iron or zinc weights.

[Gatch]

I bought 30kg from a scrap dealer to try it out. Lost not even 10% of that with removing the zinc/steel weights and clips..

[Tazza]

Most of the ones i get every so often are lead, there are the odd zinc ones, but not many at all. There is the odd steel one as well, but easily spotted.

If the price is right it doesn't bother me if i get some that are not suitable.

[Avenger442]

I've been purchasing WW from the same scrap yard since I started using them. He lets me sort through the weights at the yard. So what I pay for is only lead WW. Back when I first started they were about 10-15% unusable steel or zinc weights. The last couple of trips that has increased to about 60% and those big truck weights have almost disappeared. Here the environmentalist are pushing to get rid of any lead. And the manufacturers are complying. Even the ammo manufacturers are making bullets with no lead. So, here, it is a get it while you can situation. Even range lead may disappear. Probably will have plenty for my lifetime. But future of casting with less expensive materials looks bad.

Pure lead is still available but beginning to go away, too.

I have about 200 pounds of WW ingots stored and about 100 pounds of soft lead. May have to increase that soft sometime soon. And I'm going to smelt as much WW as I can lay my hands on.

[SAndy37]

Ok, now here's a connundrum....

I'm a commercial ammunition manufacturer. (I'm also a serial lurker in this thread) Typically we load either J-word of electroplated CMJ bullets that we source from a manufacturer locally. We have bought in a reasonable quantity of Joe's Hi Tek powder some time ago to coat some of our own castings in more obscure calibers that dont require high volumes, and went through the whole learning curve. We coat using foundry lead (92-8), commercial acetone, and a commercial convection oven.
(Please bear with the long post, I'm trying to give enough detail to limit questions later)
Our initial attempts worked OK- for personal use- but the resultant product, although passing all the tests perfectly, smoked a bit more than CMJs and left a chemical smell in the air after firing. I stopped fiddling with it and carried on shipping in the plated bullets. Late last year, I followed the adventures of Petander here and his acid wash and decided to revisit Hi Tek.

Cast bullets were soaked overnight in undiluted swimming pool HC acid, and boy did they react- foul smoke coming out of a boiling bucket! The resulting bullets were a dark powdery grey that needed scrubbing to remove the powdery residue on them. I then got one of my staff members, who had previously been doing the shaking and baking to coat and bake them for me and we loaded up a batch (testing smash and wipe 100%) that were coated 2x (124gr 9mmP) and took them to test. these bullets were perfect, they shot accurately, the recoil felt softer than normal, but velocities were about 50fps faster than the plated bullets with the same loads, and there was no undue smoking. Best of all, the chemical smell had dissipated. There was no leading at all either. The reason for using 124 gr 9mmP was to test a higher pressure bullet than a 38 or a 45.
Ok, so whats the problem you may ask?
We have been casting and loading coated bullets for the last two months with no issues. The local market has been slow to adopt them over the more traditional CMJs as range ammo, but we have now developed a nice following. Last week I checked on the process my staff are following, and found that the idiot here has been baking the two coats at 110 degrees centigrade for 10 minutes instead of at 200 C. He has done two months of production like that. Everything I have read here says that there is no way that the coating would have worked like that, but- and I took 1000 rounds of 124gr 9mmP to the range this weekend and shot them through 3 different 9mmP firearms, including a MP5 with a new, tight and longer barrel- I had the same good results as earlier. All these 'poorly' coated bullets more than exceed the two tests, and its near impossible to get the coating to come off, even when hammered thin multiple times. There was no leading in any of the firearms, accuracy was superb, the smell and smoke issues are still solved... colour me stupid, but everything written here by smarter people than me tells me that this should not be the case?
I'm not a chemist by any means, but the acid wash step has really worked for us- the foundry lead we get here is all recycled lead, and still has traces of other unwanted elements in it- the acid sorts that out and leaves a pockmarked surface that implies a great coating surface.( Thanks Petander, for the clue to solving the problem!) It may be that traces of the acid have helped the adhesion (??) and made up for the mistakes of my staff member- I dont know. Its a mystery to me. Future bakes will be done as per the instructions, but- and I dont know why- what should have been a horrible failure has tested to work as if it had been done in accordance to the instructions. the only additional step we have put in the process is the acid wash (Which, unlike Petander's wash, uses undiluted acid for 18 hours) In addition, about a hundred thousand of these 'mistakes' have been shot by satisfied customers this year already, with no complaints and nothing but compliments.
Amazing stuff, this Hi Tek!

[HI-TEK]

Ok, now here's a connundrum....

I'm a commercial ammunition manufacturer. (I'm also a serial lurker in this thread) Typically we load either J-word of electroplated CMJ bullets that we source from a manufacturer locally. We have bought in a reasonable quantity of Joe's Hi Tek powder some time ago to coat some of our own castings in more obscure calibers that dont require high volumes, and went through the whole learning curve. We coat using foundry lead (92-8), commercial acetone, and a commercial convection oven.
(Please bear with the long post, I'm trying to give enough detail to limit questions later)
Our initial attempts worked OK- for personal use- but the resultant product, although passing all the tests perfectly, smoked a bit more than CMJs and left a chemical smell in the air after firing. I stopped fiddling with it and carried on shipping in the plated bullets. Late last year, I followed the adventures of Petander here and his acid wash and decided to revisit Hi Tek.

Cast bullets were soaked overnight in undiluted swimming pool HC acid, and boy did they react- foul smoke coming out of a boiling bucket! The resulting bullets were a dark powdery grey that needed scrubbing to remove the powdery residue on them. I then got one of my staff members, who had previously been doing the shaking and baking to coat and bake them for me and we loaded up a batch (testing smash and wipe 100%) that were coated 2x (124gr 9mmP) and took them to test. these bullets were perfect, they shot accurately, the recoil felt softer than normal, but velocities were about 50fps faster than the plated bullets with the same loads, and there was no undue smoking. Best of all, the chemical smell had dissipated. There was no leading at all either. The reason for using 124 gr 9mmP was to test a higher pressure bullet than a 38 or a 45.
Ok, so whats the problem you may ask?
We have been casting and loading coated bullets for the last two months with no issues. The local market has been slow to adopt them over the more traditional CMJs as range ammo, but we have now developed a nice following. Last week I checked on the process my staff are following, and found that the idiot here has been baking the two coats at 110 degrees centigrade for 10 minutes instead of at 200 C. He has done two months of production like that. Everything I have read here says that there is no way that the coating would have worked like that, but- and I took 1000 rounds of 124gr 9mmP to the range this weekend and shot them through 3 different 9mmP firearms, including a MP5 with a new, tight and longer barrel- I had the same good results as earlier. All these 'poorly' coated bullets more than exceed the two tests, and its near impossible to get the coating to come off, even when hammered thin multiple times. There was no leading in any of the firearms, accuracy was superb, the smell and smoke issues are still solved... colour me stupid, but everything written here by smarter people than me tells me that this should not be the case?
I'm not a chemist by any means, but the acid wash step has really worked for us- the foundry lead we get here is all recycled lead, and still has traces of other unwanted elements in it- the acid sorts that out and leaves a pockmarked surface that implies a great coating surface.( Thanks Petander, for the clue to solving the problem!) It may be that traces of the acid have helped the adhesion (??) and made up for the mistakes of my staff member- I dont know. Its a mystery to me. Future bakes will be done as per the instructions, but- and I dont know why- what should have been a horrible failure has tested to work as if it had been done in accordance to the instructions. the only additional step we have put in the process is the acid wash (Which, unlike Petander's wash, uses undiluted acid for 18 hours) In addition, about a hundred thousand of these 'mistakes' have been shot by satisfied customers this year already, with no complaints and nothing but compliments.
Amazing stuff, this Hi Tek!

Hello SAndy37

WOW...…. You have got me stumped. All I can say is that at 110C this coating should not work/cure or cross link.
The design of the coating, is to cross link, and cure with internal materials that react, starting slowly at temperatures beginning at about 150C, and is most efficient and complete results with cross linking occurring around 180C and onwards.
The 200C oven heat simply supplies heat, to quickly get load up to best cure temperatures producing fast production rates for commercial casters..
If your acid wash reacts so violently, I assume that your alloy has a lot of contamination, and I am 90% plus sure that this also interfered with coating cross linking properly, and completely, at 200C and therefore caused the odours you experienced, as polymer could not cross link adequately with the interference caused by contaminants present in the alloy..
I think, that you may have also discovered that acid residue on alloy, may assist with the cross linking, but I am at a loss why that would occur and at such low temperatures. This simply should not happen, but it seems that it did.
Another thought is, that metal salts produced with acid pickling may also contributed to accelerated cross linking. This is only a guess as I don't really know.

I really appreciate your detailed report, and am glad that all is working, but as I said, according to all heat cured done over years, where low heat was applied, (on 92:6:2 alloy) the coating simply did not work as designed at lower temperatures.
You have just thrown out all that history and achieved something that I had never expected nor designed into the polymer..
All I can say well done, but with caution..
Just curious, can you send or post pictures of 110C baked ones and the 200C ones when available.
Thanks much
Joe

[SAndy37]

Thanks Joe

I also am stumped as I have followed numerous failures here due to incorrect heating, even by much smaller margins of error. I intend however to continue at the correct 200C temp in future. My post is not intended to imply that users should disregard the instructions in any way- this seems to be an outlier case and may have something to do with the acid we used- its swimming pool acid from the local hardware store and I suspect that it may not be as pure as advertised- perhaps there is a chemical hiding in there that caused this? The contamination issues with our supposed foundry lead are extreme it seems, but the acid did resolve them- for the record, we cant get 92:6:2 alloy here and use 92 lead:8 Antimony as a substitute. I have little success with posting pictures here. I will however email them to you.

[HI-TEK]

Thanks Joe

I also am stumped as I have followed numerous failures here due to incorrect heating, even by much smaller margins of error. I intend however to continue at the correct 200C temp in future. My post is not intended to imply that users should disregard the instructions in any way- this seems to be an outlier case and may have something to do with the acid we used- its swimming pool acid from the local hardware store and I suspect that it may not be as pure as advertised- perhaps there is a chemical hiding in there that caused this? The contamination issues with our supposed foundry lead are extreme it seems, but the acid did resolve them- for the record, we cant get 92:6:2 alloy here and use 92 lead:8 Antimony as a substitute. I have little success with posting pictures here. I will however email them to you.


SAndy37
As I tried to explain, before acid treatment, at correct baking temperatures (200C), the coating was damaged directly attributable to contaminants in the alloy.
After Acid treatment, which removed contaminants, coating worked OK.
The peculiarity is, that coating cured at wrong (Low) temperature conditions after acid treatment.
The curing at low temperatures, could be due to residual acid or acidic salts from pickling or both.
I really don't know, but what you found has me thinking that way.

[Petander]

I'm glad to hear that my HCL adventures have helped.

That low temp cure sounds really odd though.

But HCL soaked bullets are very easy to coat and bake. I haven't used a thermometer for months and I bake a few 5-10 pound batches every week. My outside shed (where the baking oven is,I dry bullets inside) temp varies -20°C to +10C°, it's going good without adjusting anything except time,depending on bullet size/shape. My oven dial says 200 C°,that's it. I can tell by my nose when they are ripe,I don't overbake anymore.

[Avenger442]

Joe
Can you use muriatic/hydrochloric acid to dip the bullets? Will it interfere with the coating? I have some that we dilute to clean masonry and concrete.

SAndy37
I'm with Joe. That curing at 110C is a mystery. I tried curing at lower temps and times as an experiment early on while working on some colors. Anything under 180C for 10 min. in my oven gave me a wipe failure.

Imagine you sell a lot more handgun bullets than rifle, if you sell any rifle bullets. But if you have the time try the Hi Tek in a rifle. Higher pressure and longer time in the barrel than the 9mm. I've used it in .223, .308, 45-70. It seems to give the same speed with a slight reduction in powder load over jacketed. My 41.5 grains of H4895 with a 168 grain lead .308 bullet with gas check coated three times is giving me very good accuracy with no leading in my gun. Speeds are around 2600 fps. Lead is between 12-14 BHN. In handgun I have used Hi Tek in .357 magnum, .380, .38 special, .44 magnum, and .45 auto. The last tested .380 gave same size groups as Hornady Critical Defense loads with less recoil. All with good accuracy and no leading. BHN on some of those leads were around 10. The magnum loads were middle of the road and shot without gas checks. Still learning how to do this handloading casting stuff but I think you can get any accuracy you want with Hi Tek.

I did, accidentally, shoot some 44 mag Hi Tek coated with a load that made my hand sore. Disassembled all but three of the rounds. Somehow the Hornady progressive dropped a little too much Titegroup? I hand weigh Titegroup now. But still no lead in the barrel of the Ruger.

I too have trouble uploading photos. Have photos of targets and some other stuff that I can't put up. Going to have to work on this photo posting thing again. I may have posted too many and need to remove some in my past post since I post from my computer to this forum.

[Petander]

HCL=Hydrochloric Acid=Muriatic Acid=Concrete Wash. All the same.

Concrete wash is usually about 30%. There are different products being marketed as "Concrete wash", too.

[Avenger442]

Thanks Petander

I don't have any contaminated lead right now. But it is good to know that if I were to have that problem I can use the muriatic acid on the cast bullets. Also have been conversing with a guy using Hi Tek that may be having a problem with contamination in his lead. So this might be a solution for him.

I have used copper sulfate in stump remover to remove zinc that was intentionally added to the lead. Did this to add copper to the lead. Those bullets coated and shot well. Benefit of the copper was to make bullets tougher/harder without being brittle. The process was not something I would want to do again. But it is another thing added into the library of things that can be done to fix a problem like the muriatic acid.

[HI-TEK]

Joe
Can you use muriatic/hydrochloric acid to dip the bullets? Will it interfere with the coating? I have some that we dilute to clean masonry and concrete.

SAndy37
I'm with Joe. That curing at 110C is a mystery. I tried curing at lower temps and times as an experiment early on while working on some colors. Anything under 180C for 10 min. in my oven gave me a wipe failure.

Imagine you sell a lot more handgun bullets than rifle, if you sell any rifle bullets. But if you have the time try the Hi Tek in a rifle. Higher pressure and longer time in the barrel than the 9mm. I've used it in .223, .308, 45-70. It seems to give the same speed with a slight reduction in powder load over jacketed. My 41.5 grains of H4895 with a 168 grain lead .308 bullet with gas check coated three times is giving me very good accuracy with no leading in my gun. Speeds are around 2600 fps. Lead is between 12-14 BHN. In handgun I have used Hi Tek in .357 magnum, .380, .38 special, .44 magnum, and .45 auto. The last tested .380 gave same size groups as Hornady Critical Defense loads with less recoil. All with good accuracy and no leading. BHN on some of those leads were around 10. The magnum loads were middle of the road and shot without gas checks. Still learning how to do this handloading casting stuff but I think you can get any accuracy you want with Hi Tek.

I did, accidentally, shoot some 44 mag Hi Tek coated with a load that made my hand sore. Disassembled all but three of the rounds. Somehow the Hornady progressive dropped a little too much Titegroup? I hand weigh Titegroup now. But still no lead in the barrel of the Ruger.

I too have trouble uploading photos. Have photos of targets and some other stuff that I can't put up. Going to have to work on this photo posting thing again. I may have posted too many and need to remove some in my past post since I post from my computer to this forum.

Avenger
Aside from SAndy37's report I have no idea what affects any Acid will cause to the coating.
It seems, that SAndy37 found that he can cure coating at about 110C.
That is unheard of previously and theoretically should not be possible..
As I said, the only rationale explanation is, that there was residual acid on the metal, possibly combined with acidic metal salts, and somehow this may have resulted in better bonding, but allowed fast cure at lower temperatures.
I would not recommend such activity, and I have no explanation why this happened, only a guess at this stage.
The bonding improvement may have simply been caused by a huge increase in surface area after acid pickling was done.

[Tazza]

A guy at my range said he cures at stupidly low temperatures too, like 100c, he said it was Hi-Tek, but i'm not so sure it actually is or not. Hi-Tek needs the higher temperatures to do it's linking, as did my old coating, if it's not hot enough for long enough, they fail wipe tests, a re-bake fixes it though.

The etched surface would give a great bond too, like anodizing aluminium, giving all these little pores for the coating to get into and grip onto.

[HI-TEK]

A guy at my range said he cures at stupidly low temperatures too, like 100c, he said it was Hi-Tek, but i'm not so sure it actually is or not. Hi-Tek needs the higher temperatures to do it's linking, as did my old coating, if it's not hot enough for long enough, they fail wipe tests, a re-bake fixes it though.

The etched surface would give a great bond too, like anodizing aluminium, giving all these little pores for the coating to get into and grip onto.

Tazza, You are correct. As Petander found, removing impurities from surface of cast contaminated Lead, leaves a porous surface which is ideal for Hi-Tek coatings.
Aluminium Anodizing is similar but different. Aluminium has an Oxide layer which quickly forms on clean metal. The Anodizing removes Oxide layer, and leaves a porous surface but also leaves a Phosphate coating which also provides large surface area. Aluminium is a very reactive metal, and with Hi-Tek coatings, there is a reaction with the metal itself which interferes with bonding and curing. It is possible that after Anodizing, the Hi-Tek coatings may bond to Aluminium, but I have not done work in this area, as that was not the purpose or design of the coatings initially.

I am amazed that people will try shooting inadequately cured coatings. Not adequately cured Hi-Tek will react with heat from powder burn and bond inside gun bore. Then user will have a great time, trying to remove bonded coating from the bore, as it will no longer dissolve in most solvents or cleaners.

[Avenger442]

That is one of the first things I thought of with the 110 C cure. I wonder if any of the coating came off inside the barrel. That has happened and been discussed on this thread. I might use some bullets that slightly don't pass a smash test. Would put up photos but.... But I'm not going to use a bullet that really fails a wipe test.

[Conditor22]

Curing is also important in PC, many don't understand that. if the polyester isn't completely cured it can be affected by several types of smokeless powder.
The coating becomes tacky and the powder sticks to it. Is this true with HiTek also?

Playing around with PC, does this look like Kryptonite?
top is PC
https://i.imgur.com/PpsXh56.png

HiTek Kryptonite Bottom is HiTek Kryptonite
https://i.imgur.com/C2CoCLh.jpg

[Avenger442]

On the loads that I have disassembled I have never found the coating to be tacky with Hi Tek. But mine are usually wipe tested to make sure they are cured. The only time I don't do this is when I over bake on purpose.

It was my understanding from a couple of PC buddies that certain powders will make the base of the bullet tacky even if cured. Don't remember the type powder. And I might be wrong. I'm going from my memory of those conversations. The only PC rounds I have shot were coated by someone else. I don't use it to coat myself. Those PC would have been shot right after loading since I was doing some testing. I have never disassembled a PC that has been stored for a while which is what I remember the problem being with the tacky base.

[HI-TEK]

Curing is also important in PC, many don't understand that. if the polyester isn't completely cured it can be affected by several types of smokeless powder.
The coating becomes tacky and the powder sticks to it. Is this true with HiTek also?

Playing around with PC, does this look like Kryptonite?
https://i.imgur.com/PpsXh56.png

HiTek Kryptonite
https://i.imgur.com/C2CoCLh.jpg


Conditor22
The colour is more like Zombie Green. Is that Powder coating or Hi-Tek powder?

[SAndy37]

Avenger, the bores of all 3 weapons were clean, a single wipe through with a solvent mop to remove powder residue and they were spotless.
The 'mistake' bullets passed both smash and wipe tests.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, I'm not encouraging anyone to try this, and we have already gone back to 200 C baking for 10 minutes- 2 coats. the entire thing is a mystery to me and I mention it here only for completeness. I have however the utmost faith in the acid wash process if using contaminated or suspected contaminated lead- its an additional messy and probably pretty hazardous step but leaves a surface that can only improve bonding. To the point that if I was offered uncontaminated lead now, I'd probably stick with the contaminated stuff and live with the toxic fumes and acid splash risk.

[HI-TEK]

Avenger, the bores of all 3 weapons were clean, a single wipe through with a solvent mop to remove powder residue and they were spotless.
The 'mistake' bullets passed both smash and wipe tests.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, I'm not encouraging anyone to try this, and we have already gone back to 200 C baking for 10 minutes- 2 coats. the entire thing is a mystery to me and I mention it here only for completeness. I have however the utmost faith in the acid wash process if using contaminated or suspected contaminated lead- its an additional messy and probably pretty hazardous step but leaves a surface that can only improve bonding. To the point that if I was offered uncontaminated lead now, I'd probably stick with the contaminated stuff and live with the toxic fumes and acid splash risk.

My suggestion is to dilute acid before using, and add 1 litre of Acid to 2 litres of water.
Using strong acid is not beneficial at all. Because you soak over night there is no problem.
Just a note, do this outside. Metals dissolving in acid produce flammable gas and must be avoided to getting accumulating in closed areas.
Always use suitable gloves, goggles, and impervious apron, and have running water near you to rinse/wash off accidental contact.
Spills can be easily dealt with by using Bicarb Soda mixed into water kept near by where you are working. This is a very safe and easy to use neutraliser, which instantly neutralises the acid. Have plenty of bicarb water handy, and it does not go off. Mix about 2-3 pounds bicarb in 5 gallons of water.

[Burnt Fingers]

Tite-Boom aka Tite-Group will stick to PC even if it's properly cured.

I've never had a problem with H-Tek sticking.

[Avenger442]

I've had problems with Titegroup and the Hornady dispenser on my progressive press with other calibers. But none of them were as dramatic as the .44 mag. The third round actually jammed the cylinder on the Ruger. I think it has something to do with the small number of grains between min. and max. loads. Loads need to be precise. With most powders I use, a couple of tenths off and it doesn't make a lot of difference. So, like I said, I hand weigh all Titegroup loads now. This powder works great for short barreled carry guns. It is indeed a "Tite Boom".

I've got a new mold HTC310-247-FN-BO3 RG4 cavity PB. Because of the weight (hollow point cast 230 grains) I had to go back to a 1989 loading manual to find loads for it and a .308. It may eventually go into the .30-06. I was concerned about the COL but over half this bullet length, diameter .299, extends past the beginning of the lands. It's a tail rider. Odd casting. Interested to see what it will do. May not stabilize in my barrels. Going to coat with Hi Tek of course. Already have some cast and some 1035 Gold made up. Will start with min to mid loads.

[Petander]

My suggestion is to dilute acid before using, and add 1 litre of Acid to 2 litres of water.
Using strong acid is not beneficial at all. Because you soak over night there is no problem.
Just a note, do this outside. Metals dissolving in acid produce flammable gas and must be avoided to getting accumulating in closed areas.
Always use suitable gloves, goggles, and impervious apron, and have running water near you to rinse/wash off accidental contact.
Spills can be easily dealt with by using Bicarb Soda mixed into water kept near by where you are working. This is a very safe and easy to use neutraliser, which instantly neutralises the acid. Have plenty of bicarb water handy, and it does not go off. Mix about 2-3 pounds bicarb in 5 gallons of water.

I use 30%. It can be used 2-3 times,just takes longer each time to make the bullets dark.

I tried soda in final wash after soak but I don't use it anymore. I also wash less carefully than before, some dark stains don't seem to matter with coating at all. The dark stuff that comes off and stays on the bullets actually mixes with coating,making it darker. But the coating quality is excellent.

I dry my bullets in the oven before coating,they hit 150°C at least.

My contaminant is Niobium,it must have come from monotype that I mixed with WW many years ago when I made a ton of 20 pound ingots one summer. Hi Tek really got me back into casting!

[Tazza]

I have tinkered with attempting to recover gold and silver from old computer scrap, the research i have done on the internet has pointed out that to dissolve base metals, you actually want dilute acid.

When the metal is being dissolved, it needs somewhere to go, it doesn't just evaporate, if the acid is really concentrated, there is less water for it to go into solution than a dilute mix. I'm sure Joe will set me straight on this if i'm wrong.

[HI-TEK]

I have tinkered with attempting to recover gold and silver from old computer scrap, the research i have done on the internet has pointed out that to dissolve base metals, you actually want dilute acid.

When the metal is being dissolved, it needs somewhere to go, it doesn't just evaporate, if the acid is really concentrated, there is less water for it to go into solution than a dilute mix. I'm sure Joe will set me straight on this if i'm wrong.

Tazza, Right on. A dilute acid soak is far better. Strong acids as you said have small amounts of water and dissolving base metals saturate system very quickly and this slows up cleaning. Hydrochloric acid salts of base metals is quite soluble in water so more water faster is solubility of base metals, and other benefit, much less acid vapours/fumes.

[Petander]

Another before/after soak pic:

237517

After coating:

237544

[HI-TEK]

Another before/after soak pic:

237517

After coating:

237544

Hello Petander
They are interesting projectiles. What sort of gun are they shot from?
The dark appearance on the acid soaked alloy seems to have disappeared.
That gold looks pretty good.

[Tazza]

I believe they are shotgun slugs

[SAndy37]

Thanks Joe, Tazza

Will try diluting the acid and see how it works, it can only be cheaper and safer. We do all the acid washing outside next to a water point and on a level gravel surface far away from any flammables, with the necessary OHS gear being worn. I didnt think of the Bicarb neutraliser, thanks- will get some on hand as well. You guys all have a great weekend! A

[Petander]

Hello Petander
They are interesting projectiles. What sort of gun are they shot from?
The dark appearance on the acid soaked alloy seems to have disappeared.
That gold looks pretty good.

These are .575 dia minie bullets for blackpowder guns but I've been fooling around with 20 gauge shotgun loads.

I got a little creative when coating these,trying to cover the hollow bases I let them swim in heavily diluted coating solution at first.

[kevin c]

Petander, what dilution did you use? I'm experimenting right now with 20 grams in 200 ml acetone for the same reason. 4.5 ml for 2.5 Kg seems to coat the wad cutter HP OK, bu I haven't baked them yet.

[HI-TEK]

Petander, what dilution did you use? I'm experimenting right now with 20 grams in 200 ml acetone for the same reason. 4.5 ml for 2.5 Kg seems to coat the wad cutter HP OK, bu I haven't baked them yet.

kevin c
If this is first coat, and you have dried them well first, baking should work out OK.
Tests will tell you all.
Diluting with extra Acetone for a thin first coat is not a problem.
I think that 4.5 mls of such diluted mixture for 2.5 kilo is a little light.
Not a problem however if you get reasonable coverage even though it looks blotchy..
It can be regarded as a "primer coat".
If first primer coat tests out OK after bake, you can consider using a 20/150 for second coat.

[HI-TEK]

Thanks Joe, Tazza

Will try diluting the acid and see how it works, it can only be cheaper and safer. We do all the acid washing outside next to a water point and on a level gravel surface far away from any flammables, with the necessary OHS gear being worn. I didnt think of the Bicarb neutraliser, thanks- will get some on hand as well. You guys all have a great weekend! A

SAndy37
when using Bicarb Soda to neutralise Hydrochloric acid you end up with Sodium Chloride in water, (essentially salt solution)
Not a hazardous material. Even if using excess Bicarb soda it is not hazardous, as non neutralised acid.

[Petander]

Petander, what dilution did you use? I'm experimenting right now with 20 grams in 200 ml acetone for the same reason. 4.5 ml for 2.5 Kg seems to coat the wad cutter HP OK, bu I haven't baked them yet.

I diluted the basic mix down to about 1/4 strength by adding denatured alcohol. That way I can swirl for minutes. The wet bullets may dry a bit unevenly but following coat(s) will make everything nice and even.

I didn't even pre-mix the alcohol,just poured some in the container on top of the bullets,then added the full strength solution and swirled.

[kevin c]

Thanks Joe, thanks Petander.

The first coat definitely looks like a light, blotchy watercolor-like stain/tint. I've used it as a first coat followed by a second 5 ml coat of 20 g in 120 ml of the Black Cherry, and have good coverage.

I plan on doing the hollowpoints with three 4.5 to 5 ml coats of the 20 g in 200 ml, which will give slightly more total solids than the two coats I used as described above. I'll post pix if I can bring myself to open a photobucket account, or delete some of my previously posted pix here.

[Ausglock]

G'day Everyone.
Just got backhome from the 2019 IPSC Australia Handgun Nationals Competition in Sydney.

Great match and many interesting stages.
I shot very good with only 2 misses for the 20 stages.
Young dansedgli shot like a demon all competition. Congrats Dan.

Was interesting to see the bullets used by the competitors. probably 75% were coated lead, while the rest were copper plated.
A local importer of copper plated bullets had a sign up saying that coated lead bullets were a dying product. However, talking to shooters, They have found that the copper plated are not as accurate as coated lead when pushed to higher velocities to make Major power factor.
There were a large number of shooters using my Kryptonite Green bullets and Red ones from Black Widow Bullets in Victoria.

dansedgli Was using his own cast and coated bullets for the match. Congrats, Dan. Great to put a face to the name of a Legend.

[HI-TEK]

G'day Everyone.
Just got backhome from the 2019 IPSC Australia Handgun Nationals Competition in Sydney.

Great match and many interesting stages.
I shot very good with only 2 misses for the 20 stages.
Young dansedgli shot like a demon all competition. Congrats Dan.

Was interesting to see the bullets used by the competitors. probably 75% were coated lead, while the rest were copper plated.
A local importer of copper plated bullets had a sign up saying that coated lead bullets were a dying product. However, talking to shooters, They have found that the copper plated are not as accurate as coated lead when pushed to higher velocities to make Major power factor.
There were a large number of shooters using my Kryptonite Green bullets and Red ones from Black Widow Bullets in Victoria.

dansedgli Was using his own cast and coated bullets for the match. Congrats, Dan. Great to put a face to the name of a Legend.

Ausglock
I have had several reports of the Copper Coated products.
Apparently the comments made was that when trying to get power factors up, the plated Copper simply shredded/peeled off the Lead.
I don't have the specific details of what was done to get that failure, but had to simply listen to advice being provided.
May be it is an area that needs investigation by users to actually detail what had happened.
Some commented, that they had to clean Copper residues from the bore afterwards.
We all know what happens with Copper cleaners and bores, when using chemicals that dissolve/clean Copper, that is bonded to the bore.

[Ausglock]

Just cleaned my STI Trubor.
I must say. After 375 rounds with Zero cleaning of the bore, 1 pass of a boresnake and the bore is spotless and shiny bright. My loads chronoes at 1424FPS with a 125gn Bullet for power factor of 178 in 38 Supercomp. If that isn't a great outcome for coated lead bullets, Nothing is!

[HI-TEK]

Just cleaned my STI Trubor.
I must say. After 375 rounds with Zero cleaning of the bore, 1 pass of a boresnake and the bore is spotless and shiny bright. My loads chronoes at 1424FPS with a 125gn Bullet for power factor of 178 in 38 Supercomp. If that isn't a great outcome for coated lead bullets, Nothing is!

Ausglock,
According to the advertising by Tiger Shark local agent, the Coated alloy is on the way out.
What is of interest is, how would the Copper Plated Tiger Shark product perform at same conditions as you quoted? Actual direct comparisons are very useful to prove or disprove sales promotion claims.
How much Copper would end up in the bore after 375 rounds being shot? Also, would there be loss of accuracy when the Copper starts to deposit in the bore?

[Ausglock]

The plated work OK.. I haven't fired enough of them to see what sort of copper deposits are left in the bore.

[Petander]

I used to shoot a lot more handguns than I do now.

I have tried copper plated in the 90's for the first time and many times ever since, in many handgun calibers.
It's the worst of the both worlds to me. You never know what happens unless you load very mild. They actually break in pieces. I understand there are different versions of electroplating around the world but this has been my experience. Nobody competes with plated bullets around here,it's all j-bullets.

[HI-TEK]

I used to shoot a lot more handguns than I do now.

I have tried copper plated in the 90's for the first time and many times ever since, in many handgun calibers.
It's the worst of the both worlds to me. You never know what happens unless you load very mild. They actually break in pieces. I understand there are different versions of electroplating around the world but this has been my experience. Nobody competes with plated bullets around here,it's all j-bullets.

Petander,
with Copper Jackets, I believe that a thin flexible foil of Copper is enveloped around Lead.
Each manufacturer/supplier has their own idea of which Copper foil is adequate and each has their own idea of Copper film thickness and other physical properties.

The encapsulated Lead used/enveloped by Copper Foil, is normally only Lead, and it is soft so it has expansion ability to stretch Copper Foil and seal it onto the Barrel.
The Copper foil used, stretches with hydraulic deformation to seal bore and is dependent on foil thickness & hardness.

If Copper Plated is being examined in comparison, the Copper deposit is not a solid foil of Copper, but atoms of Copper is deposited onto the Lead surface and onto deposited Copper.
If surface is magnified, the deposit seems a porous metal surface.

I question, if plated Copper has adequate strength or ability to keep projectile whole and contained, especially when deformation of Lead is occurring during shooting.

Electroplated Copper, can be vey brittle or very soft, depending on plating chemicals and process.
One electroplated Copper process is Acid type, and the other is Cyanide type. They can both produce totally different type of Copper Plating and resulting deposit has great differences with tensile strength and hardness.
Electrodeposit property such as density and hardness of plated Copper, is also greatly affected by Voltage and Amps used to plate the Lead.

The whole idea of Jacketed and or Plated Lead, is the intent to stop Lead becoming in contact with the bore, and stop/reduce Fouling and increase in accuracy.

Down side is that if Jacketed or plated Copper is used, there is no lubrication, and frictional heat generated, which simply deposits Copper from both onto the Barrel.
Depending on how or what Copper is used to cover/envelope the Lead, can greatly vary results obtained in actual shooting conditions, and subsequent Copper fouling.
As some have found, if incorrect Copper coat or Jacket is used, the results are less than satisfactory.

I find it interesting, that all who jockey around with trying to get market share, cannot supply any comparative data to support any claims made such as an example quote, "Ours is better than the guys up the road."
Where is the proof????

It seems to me, that attitude is, shiny, shiny, never mind the quality or the proof, with supporting data.

Marketing strategy appears to be, to attack any competitors with innuendo to try and discredit and hopefully resulting in increase in market share, coupled with trying to get market share by discounting or under cutting prices of existing competitors.

My other concerns are, that when users of these products, find that their barrel is worn out , what then?
Cheap products may end up being very costly indeed.

[dikman]

I seriously doubt if coated boolits are "on the way out", there are many ranges here in SA where jacketed/copper plated ammunition is not allowed (this is a Police stipulation when giving range approval), it's either plain lead or Hi-Tek/PC type coatings. Besides, people on this forum have shown just how much these two coatings can be pushed performance-wise.

[Gatch]

I can't really give any imperical data, but a lot of the shooters at my club use tigershark plated because the importer is a member and the price is right. Noone seems to have any complaints so far. In saying that I'm still super keen to make my own to cut the cost down.

[Ausglock]

Gatch. make your own. TGR SRK are way overpriced.
If I had to pay for my bullets, I could not afford to buy TGR SRK.
So many Open gun shooters have tried them, but are now coming back to coated lead.
Custom Gunsmiths in Brisbane are recommending coated lead bullets to their customers.

[Gatch]

Gatch. make your own. TGR SRK are way overpriced.
If I had to pay for my bullets, I could not afford to buy TGR SRK.
So many Open gun shooters have tried them, but are now coming back to coated lead.
Custom Gunsmiths in Brisbane are recommending coated lead bullets to their customers.

If I had some molds...

[HI-TEK]

If I had some molds...

Hi Gatch
Buying mould and doing your own becomes far more economical despite initial set up costs.
As Ausglock said make your own. Much better. If you are a keen shooter and use a lot, home cast is not so good unless you have plenty of spare time to make your own.
Queensland has its own manufacturers, and it is difficult to understand why imported stuff is used over local supply.

When you are considering to save on costs, I am sure that local supply would work out cheaper than imported stuff.

Other manufacturers and suppliers from other states find freight costs as being a strong deterrent for small orders.

May be your club group should talk to various manufacturers to quote for supply of a combined bulk order for members.
You never know how you will go until they go through the exercise.

[Gatch]

Hi Gatch
Buying mould and doing your own becomes far more economical despite initial set up costs.
As Ausglock said make your own. Much better. If you are a keen shooter and use a lot, home cast is not so good unless you have plenty of spare time to make your own.
Queensland has its own manufacturers, and it is difficult to understand why imported stuff is used over local supply.

When you are considering to save on costs, I am sure that local supply would work out cheaper than imported stuff.

Other manufacturers and suppliers from other states find freight costs as being a strong deterrent for small orders.

May be your club group should talk to various manufacturers to quote for supply of a combined bulk order for members.
You never know how you will go until they go through the exercise.

AusGlocks offered a couple molds and I've been busy preparing ingots and getting the other stuff ready. So I'm super keen to make my own. I'm lucky to have plenty of time and am a fitter/turner by trade so this is all fairly straight forward stuff. I had been keen on powdercoating but after reading all on these forums I think I'll go with the hitek. If I can get my own slugs to go as good, or better than my current loads for less than half the cost, I'll be stoked !

[HI-TEK]

AusGlocks offered a couple molds and I've been busy preparing ingots and getting the other stuff ready. So I'm super keen to make my own. I'm lucky to have plenty of time and am a fitter/turner by trade so this is all fairly straight forward stuff. I had been keen on powdercoating but after reading all on these forums I think I'll go with the hitek. If I can get my own slugs to go as good, or better than my current loads for less than half the cost, I'll be stoked !


Gatch,
Great News, Ausglock probably has a few spares up his sleeve.
There is no reason why you can get good results. Ausglock mastered the coatings and is an expert.
Costs are a bit tricky to calculate as basically no one includes their work input as contributing to costs.
There are plenty of great guys on this blog that will provide assistance.
If it is a hobby business, owners seldom seem to include their labour and time towards product costs, and when you are pumping out hundreds of thousands, then such costs can become important as part of buying gear/equipment, alloy, power and labour, rent etc etc.

[kevin c]

Last time I checked (I admit it's been years), here in the US, jacketed cost about 30% more than plated, which cost 30% more than commercial coated, which cost 400 to 500% more than the raw material cost of home cast/home HiTek coated, and the last, with the boolit design and sized diameter matched to my pistols, are softer shooting and as, if not more, accurate than what I used to buy.

ETA: and the time and money spent and being spent on learning the art, acquiring skills and improving my equipment, developing sources for raw materials, selecting molds and then getting to admire, load and then use the end product, a boolit that I myself made for my guns, has been a lot of fun and more than satisfying.

[Gatch]

After some rough calculations, if I factor in only the scrap lead, and even some additional tin, then finished projectiles will be about 20-25% the cost of buying plated lead. Even factoring in what I intend to spend on equipment, I'll be shooting cheap rounds after 6-7months. And if my lady has any say I won't be spending any more than what I've budgeted haaa. But really I can't see a downside to making my own. I'm not reinventing the wheel. You lot have down the hard work figuring it all out. I just have to cobble it all together here and practice practice practice.

[HI-TEK]

After some rough calculations, if I factor in only the scrap lead, and even some additional tin, then finished projectiles will be about 20-25% the cost of buying plated lead. Even factoring in what I intend to spend on equipment, I'll be shooting cheap rounds after 6-7months. And if my lady has any say I won't be spending any more than what I've budgeted haaa. But really I can't see a downside to making my own. I'm not reinventing the wheel. You lot have down the hard work figuring it all out. I just have to cobble it all together here and practice practice practice.

Gatch
I got to warn you, making/casting and coating with Hi-Tek for yourself is very addictive.
You will find yourself casting so you can catch up and coat some more. Then you will have a few mates that want some, and on it goes. Next thing is, you will then have to employ the missus to help with production.

You guys also have a great benefit in QLD, as there is an excellent local alloy supplier (Northern Smelters) there that knows exactly what you require. They have/supply small bullions with concentrated alloy mixes with various metals, that hobbyists can add to their alloy to improve properties.

[Gatch]

Gatch
I got to warn you, making/casting and coating with Hi-Tek for yourself is very addictive.
You will find yourself casting so you can catch up and coat some more. Then you will have a few mates that want some, and on it goes. Next thing is, you will then have to employ the missus to help with production.

You guys also have a great benefit in QLD, as there is an excellent local alloy supplier (Northern Smelters) there that knows exactly what you require. They have/supply small bullions with concentrated alloy mixes with various metals, that hobbyists can add to their alloy to improve properties.

Funnily enough I've already had a few emails to and from them regarding prices of their various alloys and pure tin. On my way to work I even drive past a scrap dealer who has several ton of wheel weights and other lead. It's all looking rosy at this point.

[Ausglock]

You could also "mine" the stop butts at COB for bullet metal. Be aware that the lead in plated bullets is very soft and is not good to mix in with cast bullets.

[dansedgli]

The trick is not to make them for anyone else. :P

I make them when my wife and child visits her family in Tasmania. Crank them out as much as possible after work every day, accumulate a batch then coat and cook on lunch breaks and any spare other spare hour I can find.

I traded some magazines for some bullets last April but probably haven't paid for bullets in 2 years now. Maybe 30,000 rounds.

I haven't coated for a few months and will probably get another 3 or 4 months out of what I've got left to shoot.

[Petander]

On my way to work I even drive past a scrap dealer who has several ton of wheel weights and other lead. It's all looking rosy at this point.

Grab a ton or two while you still can.Lead WW is becoming rare,globally.

Casting bullets can be a very relaxing hobby in itself. I forget everything else while casting, my wife says I'm better company when I cast a few times a week.

237762

[kevin c]

237812

Here is the result of three coats of 20 g black cherry in 200 ml acetone, roughly 5 ml per 2.5 kg. Left to right in back is uncoated, then first coat pre/post bake, second coat pre/post, and then third coat pre/post. In front are hollow base wad cutters with multiple lube grooves, both three coats.

Coverage for the regular lube groove was good with two or three coats, but a bit better with the third. It's a bit hard to see, but the hollow base got covered, only some casts didn't get multiple coats inside, about 20%.

I think that, in general, one coat of 20/200 followed by one coat 20/120 works well enough for me, three thin coats of 20/200 if I want them to look pretty, and two or three coats of 20/200 with larger volumes (maybe more diluted aka Petander) to insure complete coverage of hollow points/bases, though the standard lube and small grooves seem well covered with the first two variations.

[Avenger442]

They look good to me.

I'm waiting on some to dry so I can bake them. They are .308s with a hollow point coated in some old, been mixed for about four months, 1035 Gold. That mixture has added acetone to make sure that it is not too thick. I didn't measure just poured some in. So it is probably about what you and Petander are using as a thin coat. Will do three coats.

Still haven't got back to being able to post photos. When I do I'll put some up. I've done everything I can do to reduce the number of photos I have posted except delete them all. I think the problem is that I'm posting from my storage to the site. I found out years ago from computer geeks at work that it is unwise to store photos of any kind in a photo storage site or cloud. So I don't use them. All my storage is onsite.

[Petander]

Aqua-Lube is an excellent antiseize/lube for shotgun chokes.

I got a rifled choke for a 20 gauge 870 a couple of days ago and it was tightening up during shooting ,just like rifled chokes do. I loosened it up every 10-15 slugs or so,always too tight. Can't do that in a competition.

Then I remembered Aqua-Lube and applied it to the threads. Now after two more days slug testing, I can say the choke does not tighten up at all when Aqua-lubed. I fired 100+ slugs. Feels like I just tightened it up.

No more grease,this is good. I'll Aqua-lube all my other chokes,too. Nice and clean.

238119

[Jatz357]

Hi-Tek is a great product and very easy to use. I've never had a problem using Hi-Tek and the key to success is follow instructions and heed advice from people who have been using this product for many years, especially the manufacture.

Been following this thread for a long time now and thought it’s about time I contributed.

I know a lot of this has been repeated over and over but here is my spin.

Simple starting points:

# Use clean uncontaminated lead before & after casting

# Coating, a little goes a long way. I use approx. 5ml to 2kg of projectiles

# Make sure you are using Acetone UN1090 (don't use gun wash or low grade). Hot weather you can use 20% denatured alcohol to slow flash off to increase tumble time.

# Mix 20 grams Hi-Tek powder to 100 – 120 mls Acetone, try different ratios to find what best suits you and the colour you are using.

# Don’t tumble too long, if projectiles start to get sticky before you tip them onto a drying tray you’ve tumbled too long

# Don’t disturb / move projectiles until they have dried, it’s ok for them to be piled on top of each other while they dry.

# Make sure coating is dry, may appear dry but if weather is cool it will take a lot longer to dry. If I’m in a hurry I use a hair dryer to bring projectiles up to about 50 degrees C to accelerate the process.

# Preheat projectile before putting them into the oven, especially if ambient temperature is cool. Projectiles will be a lot colder than the ambient temperature and if not pre-warmed, any trapped moisture will cause bonding of the coating to fail.

# Know your oven, Do you really know what temperature is inside the oven when it’s set at 200 C ? I started off with a cheap toaster oven with elements top and bottom and found I could easily put two racks of projectiles in at the same time, 3 to 4 kg each. I found over time the bake times would vary, needed longer times to bake the more batches I did in a single stint. I found as the oven heated up the thermostat would turn off way before the oven reached 200 C when set at 200. I eventually added a PID controller to measure and regulate the temperature and found when the oven was first turned on the onboard thermostat was accurate to within 10 degrees C but as time went on the thermostat would turn the elements of at 170 C and then fluctuate. Easy way to add a PID controller is make up you own stand alone unit, fit the thermocouple to the oven and plug you PID controller between the power point and the oven and turn the oven thermostat up to max temp, PID will then do the job.

# Bake times will vary depending on your oven and the amount of projectiles you put in at any one time. 10 minutes is a good place to start. If you over bake, the colour will just go darker, reduce bake time. If you have under baked, you can simply just put back in the over and bake again. That may darken the colour but will not cause any other coating problems. Adjust bake times depending on your findings.

# Before 2nd coat: Check whether coating has cured completely, use the Acetone test. Soak a cloth with Acetone and rub a projectile on it, if coating comes off its way under baked, if a little colour comes off then they are still under baked. If not baked correctly the 2nd coat will strip off part or all of the first coat so the 2nd coat will still look light and patchy after the 2nd bake.

# Do the smash test, squash a projectile with a hammer, if the coating flakes off this means the bonding has failed. Main cause is coating not being thoroughly dried or moisture because projectiles were not pre-warmed and less common cause is contaminated lead. If bonding fails, only fix is remelt. Adding more coasts will not fix the problem.

# If tests pass then proceed with 2nd coat If you want the projectiles to look extra pretty.

# Size, load & enjoy.

Some of the last batch of 115 grain SWC coated with Candy Apple & a touch of Black Cherry.

238141

[Petander]

Now that's really nice and bright looking Candy Apple Red.

[Tazza]

Awesome looking colour indeed.

[HI-TEK]

Awesome looking colour indeed.


Tazza, need to talk, sent you a PM

[Tazza]

Message sent.

[Jatz357]

Now that's really nice and bright looking Candy Apple Red.

Looks different in different lights. That photo used the flash and has made the colour look a bit brighter but they do look good in natural light too.

Thanks Petander & Tazza

[Gatch]

Couple questions about the hitek.

What is the difference to the average punter between the liquid/catalyst and the powder products ?

Also if I have some unused mixed powder in a bottle and it sits for a few weeks, can I just put in more acetone and use it or does it go "off" after a while ?

[Jatz357]

Couple questions about the hitek.

What is the difference to the average punter between the liquid/catalyst and the powder products ?

Also if I have some unused mixed powder in a bottle and it sits for a few weeks, can I just put in more acetone and use it or does it go "off" after a while ?

I don’t know much about the liquid version but, I believe the liquid coating is diluted with acetone and requires a catalyst also. The powder version only needs acetone to be added because the catalyst is already mixed in the powder. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

If previously mixed powder has dried out a bit and is now too thick you can just add more acetone. Far as I know it will still be good. I’ve used some after it’s been sitting for months and never had a problem. Bottles I use seal very well and the mix doesn’t evaporate very much. Just don’t leave it in direct sunlight.

[ioon44]

Jatz357 you are right on with your post.

The dried coating in the container the bullets are coated in can be reused, just add bullets and Acetone and swirl until you have a light first coat.
One big plus about Hi-Tek there is very little waste.
Getting the first coat dry is the key, I agree that drying to 50 deg C for 15 min will insure success.

[Burnt Fingers]

I've had a problem with the coloring agent in Hi-Tek lumping together here in Texas. I've found that keeping the mixture in the refrigerator prevents this.

[Avenger442]

I have used the liquid and still use it. When I started coating with Hi Tek that was all there was. Really the only big difference, as has been said, is that you have to measure three things instead of two. My liquid Hi Tek components are now almost five years old. When mixed and used it will still perform the same. However it is a little darker now than when it was fresh. I store all my mixes in a box on the floor of my basement. Trevor has mentioned several times the refrigeration for long term storage of unmixed and I believe mixed components. I've just never used it.

Joe did us a favor when he came up with the powder that mixes the catalysis and the color in one component which only needs acetone or MEK mixed to have the coating. It also has a cheaper shipping rate. My powder based coatings are not as old as the liquid and seem to coat about the same color and also perform the same.

As to it drying out, again as has been said, just add some more acetone and thin it down if it is a little thick. One thing that has not been covered is that if you let it completely dry out to a hard lump acetone will not completely dissolve it. I let some do this and was experimenting with letting the broken up clumps dissolve in acetone. After several months and an occasional shake the acetone had still not dissolved the big lumps. Finally threw it in the trash. Since most of the smaller ones dissolved I believe that if you took the completely dried out lump of mix and ground it up in maybe a coffee grinder you might get some coating mix again. It will be a darker color than original.

[Vettepilot]

I posted this on the other thread, then noticed nobody has been there recently, then found this thread, so...

A good while back I bought some Hy-Tek coated bullets from Missouri Bullets for my 30.06. Haven't gotten 'round to loading/using them yet. They are red. How do I tell if it is the "Metallic" red or not?

They are BHN 18. Assuming (hoping) it is the Metallic Red they are coated with; what would max accurate velocity be??

Thanks,
Vettepilot

[Tazza]

In the sun or with a torch, you should see flakes if it's metalic, if none are seen, it will not be metalic.

As for what speed you can get, i can't help you, If the are gas checked, you can push them a fair bit harder than plain based ones.

[Avenger442]

I have shot Hi Tek in my .308 one grain short of max load with no leading. 165 grain bullet H4895 powder. That lead was around 15-17 BHN. I have since lowered the BHN to 12-14. They seem to be more accurate in my gun. Back then I didn't have a crono so no confirmed speeds. But they were probably moving around 2700 fps based on the speeds of my current load which is just .5 grains over start load which runs about 2550 to 2600 fps. Hi Tek seems to give me a little over advertised speed on loads. These were gas checked bullets. Not the 30 06 but close. Would think you could push 2000 fps without the check with no leading.

[Gatch]

Batch 1 and 2

I used a little bit more acetone than recommended as it was relatively hot in the shed. About 1-2 teaspoons of mixture per 2kg batch of bullets. 20 sec shake. Dry for 10 minutes. In the oven for 10. It's a new oven so still working out the temp controls.. They look a little burnt, but the coating didn't buff or smash off after the first or second coat. The fall from the mold around .356. After 2 coats they are around .358-.3585. Sized back to .357. I am absolutely looking forward to sunday. Cant wait to load a few dozen up and see how they go.

I am stoked that in my first attempt I've produced usable boolits.
238335238336

[Ausglock]

Yep.. Way over temp. That DG730N should be a dark green. Use 6mls to 250 of those bullets. About 2.3Kg. Go to the chemist and get some 10ml syringes. cheap as chips.
Add a few mls of Metho to the mix. that will slow down the flashing off of the acetone. Only swirl til they are just wet then dump them. probably 15 to 20 seconds this time of year in Brisvegas.

[Gatch]

Yep.. Way over temp. That DG730N should be a dark green. Use 6mls to 250 of those bullets. About 2.3Kg. Go to the chemist and get some 10ml syringes. cheap as chips.
Add a few mls of Metho to the mix. that will slow down the flashing off of the acetone. Only swirl til they are just wet then dump them. probably 15 to 20 seconds this time of year in Brisvegas.

Awesome cheers Trev. I've got about 4.5kg of uncoated left so I'll have a go tomorrow night. There's a pharmacy on the way too.

I thought it was a bit funny how people said you will hear the sound change when you are shaking them. But it really is clear as mud.

[Petander]

Yes,looks like it's too hot in the oven,Gatch.

I've been thinking about trying some extra air blowers inside my oven. I have been getting very good coatings but I'm missing the final step of colour perfection you know... a bit too hot,too dark...

My oven has a reasonable cyclone and has power to keep the temp quite steady. But some colors are more sensitive to radiant heat than others,my oven is usually at measured 190°C but that means the bullets hit 205°C because of the radiant heat from above. I verify things with IR meter.

I tried to add some (Candy Apple) red to TMG Gold but too hot turns the Red towards brown. Same bake Z-Green is just fine.

238337

[HI-TEK]

Batch 1 and 2

I used a little bit more acetone than recommended as it was relatively hot in the shed. About 1-2 teaspoons of mixture per 2kg batch of bullets. 20 sec shake. Dry for 10 minutes. In the oven for 10. It's a new oven so still working out the temp controls.. They look a little burnt, but the coating didn't buff or smash off after the first or second coat. The fall from the mold around .356. After 2 coats they are around .358-.3585. Sized back to .357. I am absolutely looking forward to sunday. Cant wait to load a few dozen up and see how they go.

I am stoked that in my first attempt I've produced usable boolits.
238335238336

Gatch
If the over cooked casts pass all tests, they will work OK. Unfortunately colour suffers.
We have had dark green baked at 200C for days. It all was Black, but was best performing despite colour.

[Burnt Fingers]

Batch 1 and 2

I used a little bit more acetone than recommended as it was relatively hot in the shed. About 1-2 teaspoons of mixture per 2kg batch of bullets. 20 sec shake. Dry for 10 minutes. In the oven for 10. It's a new oven so still working out the temp controls.. They look a little burnt, but the coating didn't buff or smash off after the first or second coat. The fall from the mold around .356. After 2 coats they are around .358-.3585. Sized back to .357. I am absolutely looking forward to sunday. Cant wait to load a few dozen up and see how they go.

I am stoked that in my first attempt I've produced usable boolits.
238335238336

I've NEVER had Hi-Tek add .002 to my bullets. NEVER.

[HI-TEK]

I've NEVER had Hi-Tek add .002 to my bullets. NEVER.

Burnt Fingers
I am wondering what is the thickness that you achieve with the Hi-Tek coatings?
Generally two coats applied to cast provides about 1.8-2.2 thou with two coats.
Some like to coat much thicker, but reality is that in majority of applications two thou should be adequate.
I have had reports where a single reasonable coating has performed adequately, but they look less than pretty.

[Conditor22]

Gatch, the first rule of ovens, the vast majority of them are not accurate temperature setting wise, often the temperature will vary with the temperature of the surrounding area. I check my ovens setting before each casting session. I have all the components to build a PID for it (them) but haven't gotten around to it.
I need to get the schematics for the ovens to know the voltage the fans use. I've read and heard the putting a pic on a convection oven can burn out the circulating fan in a hurry by the rapid on/off fluctuations so knowing the voltage of the fan I will wire it directly to it's own power source so it stays on the whole time the oven is on.

[Gatch]

When installing a pid, can you have it controlling just the heating elements and not the fan ?

[Tazza]

When installing a pid, can you have it controlling just the heating elements and not the fan ?

Sure can, just wire it up to the heating element(s) and not the main power plug. Only try it if you are confident in how to wire up electrical devices though.

[Gatch]

Sure can, just wire it up to the heating element(s) and not the main power plug. Only try it if you are confident in how to wire up electrical devices though.

238366

What could go wrong ?

[Tazza]

238366

What could go wrong ?

hehehe

[Petander]

The old fashioned,mechanical thermostats can have a really wide on/off temp range.

If I add a PID , I'll simply replace the old thermostat with a PID controlled relay. In case there are more than one thermostat... not sure yet.

[Ausglock]

I have used the Bulb/capillary type thermometers from ebay. $21 AUD. set at 195Deg C and they work great. easy to retro fit. Will take a few photos this arvo.

[Stephen Cohen]

Awesome cheers Trev. I've got about 4.5kg of uncoated left so I'll have a go tomorrow night. There's a pharmacy on the way too.

I thought it was a bit funny how people said you will hear the sound change when you are shaking them. But it really is clear as mud.

Good to see you have taken the plunge Mate, I told you it was easy and as long as you listen to Hi-Tek Joe and Ausglock you will be fine. Regards Stephen.

[wlkjr]

On the subject of leftover solution from previous coatings, this stuff is so cheap that if I don't plan on using it within a month, I just squirt it out and clean my bottle with some acetone. I mix 3.5 oz. which I think is about 120ml if I'm going to coat around 12-1500 boolits. I never mix more than this amount but sometimes I will cut it in half. This is enough to do two coats on 4 wire trays of approximately 350 147 grainers. Four trays gives me enough working time for the initial coats to dry and keep them rotating in the oven. I've been cooking mine 12 minutes.
This week I coated about 3500 or more and whatever mix I had left was minimal and I just tossed it. Two teaspoons of powder and 3.5 oz. of acetone is pretty darn cheap. I've tried reusing old mix and I wasn't satisfied with the results. Not worth trying to save a few pennies.
I do swirl mine in an enclosed plastic bowl for about 20 seconds before removing the top and swirling an additional 30 seconds. This has given me the best results. Two coats are usually enough.
One thing I do after I cast a few thousand is put about 300 in a small Folger's coffee can and rinse with fresh acetone. I shake it good and drain into another can. I reuse the acetone for the next batch. After they drain for a couple of minutes, I pour them onto my wire mesh cooking trays and place under a fan to dry for a few more minutes. I use the same acetone to clean about 2000 before I discard it. The used acetone usually has a slight yellowish tint to it, so apparently it is cleaning something off. I'm using mostly wheel weights and some linotype mixed in. So far I've not had any problems with adhesion, knock on wood.
I have Dark Green, Zombie Green, Kryptonite Green, Bronze, Candy Apple Red, Black Cherry, Black, and K15 Black. I really love this K15 Black. I use it for my 9mm 147 grain loads at 2.9gr Titegroup in my G26. I coat the same bullet one of the Red colors for my wife and use more powder as she needs a little higher load for her G19 to cycle. I color code my loads for different guns so I don't get them confused. This stuff has worked out great for me.

[Conditor22]

I was planning on plugging my countertop oven into the PID and wiring the fan directly to a proper power source.

[HI-TEK]

I was planning on plugging my countertop oven into the PID and wiring the fan directly to a proper power source.

The PID is a more directly applicable to controlling heating elements. I know that some install a switch that operates fan from independent power source. When the door is opened, the fan Switch turns off the fan, and when door is closed fan can be switched on again. That way you don't get a face full of hot air when opening the oven, and much less cooling as no air circulation.

[Burnt Fingers]

Burnt Fingers
I am wondering what is the thickness that you achieve with the Hi-Tek coatings?
Generally two coats applied to cast provides about 1.8-2.2 thou with two coats.
Some like to coat much thicker, but reality is that in majority of applications two thou should be adequate.
I have had reports where a single reasonable coating has performed adequately, but they look less than pretty.

I've got a batch to coat. I'll measure.them before and after.

[Conditor22]

The PID is a more directly applicable to controlling heating elements. I know that some install a switch that operates fan from independent power source. When the door is opened, the fan Switch turns off the fan, and when door is closed fan can be switched on again. That way you don't get a face full of hot air when opening the oven, and much less cooling as no air circulation.

good point Joe, I'll need to figure that out.
If I used full-sized ovens I could hook the fan off switch to the oven light switch.

[Ausglock]

I have a Lyman 230gn RN mold that throws small .450. would not shoot well when lubed with White label lube. 2 coats of HITEK brought the dia up to .452. It now shoots fine. one of my favourite 45 bullets.

[Ausglock]

good point Joe, I'll need to figure that out.
If I used full-sized ovens I could hook the fan off switch to the oven light switch.

Just open up the enclosure and hook the active and neutral wires to where they first contact the oven on/off switch. I removed the rotary timer/on/off dial and replaced it with a toggle on/off switch. I use a separate timer and not the poxy timer on the oven.

[Gatch]

I've searched and found plenty of threads mentioning PID controllers. But is there one that anyone knows of that is a bit more of a step by step, start to finish kind of guide ? And maybe some info on the components to purchase ?

[Tazza]

Gatch - If you get stuck, sling me a message, i'm from brissie too and can hopefully get you sorted out.

They really are not complicated, i got some off ebay cheap, modified them to work with an SSR, connected the 6 wires and good to go.

2 for power into the PID
2 for the thermocouple
2 to the SSR

[Tazza]

This is pretty much all you need:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/REX-C100-Digital-Alarm-PID-Temperature-Controller-Machine-0-1300-AC110-240V-AU/264019269087?hash=item3d78c655df:g:ODoAAOSwz5Nb2~Y f

Hopefully that link works, if not, look up item 264019269087 in the ebay search box.

[Gatch]

This is pretty much all you need:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/REX-C100-Digital-Alarm-PID-Temperature-Controller-Machine-0-1300-AC110-240V-AU/264019269087?hash=item3d78c655df:g:ODoAAOSwz5Nb2~Y f

Hopefully that link works, if not, look up item 264019269087 in the ebay search box.

Yo that's awesome, cheers tazza. I found a "pid for dummies" kind of step by step thing on instructables.com. Bought that kit too. Should have a schmick setup sometime next week. Thanks again man

[Tazza]

hehe pid for dummies, i like it!

If you get stuck, just give me a yell.

As already suggested, i'd wire the PID into the heating circuit, not the fan, so it still circulates air when the connection is broken by the SSR. Take the cover off the oven, find the wires running to the heating coil, remove one wire and run it through the SSR in series.

Ensure you hook the power from the PID to the SSR the correct way or else it will not work, same with the thermocouple, both of these are polarized. When the SSR is on, the LED on it will light up.

[Ausglock]

search ebay for rex C100 PID for SSR....NOT RELAY!!!!!
a 25 to 40amp SSR and a 100mm long K sensor in the 100 to 500Deg C range is all you need.

[Tazza]

search ebay for rex C100 PID for SSR....NOT RELAY!!!!!
a 25 to 40amp SSR and a 100mm long K sensor in the 100 to 500Deg C range is all you need.

The one i linked him to, came with a 40a ssr and K thermocouple, so i assume it was the SSR version, if not, i'll tell him how to modify it from relay output.

[Ausglock]

The one i linked him to, came with a 40a ssr and K thermocouple, so i assume it was the SSR version, if not, i'll tell him how to modify it from relay output.

Yep. The first one I got was relay, so I unsoldered the relay and did the mod too.

[Gatch]

Had a second whack at the sav tonight.238426
The colour is definitely better. Though maybe still a touch dark, if I compare them to susan island bullets. Still it's an improvement. I flattened the hell out of them. That stuff sticks like poop on a blanket.

[Tazza]

Glad you had better success, Hi-Tek sure does stick well doesn't it?

[Ausglock]

Now... That is the colour DG730N should be. good job.
Our SIB green is lighter because it is a different green.

[Gatch]

Cheers gents. I figured I would keep the cook time constant. And just lower the temp bit by bit till the colour comes good. It'll be a bit more scientific with pid installed. I've loaded about 50 up with 4gr of ap70. Should be nearish to 125pf

[Ausglock]

Wrong... keep the temp and vary the time.
Heavy bullets will take longer at the same temp.
It all comes down to how long it takes to get 2.5kgs of alloy up to temp.
eg:250 125gn 9mm bullets compred to 150 230gn 45 bullets, both bake for the same time at the same temp...
You get where I'm going with this????

[Gatch]

Wrong... keep the temp and vary the time.
Heavy bullets will take longer at the same temp.
It all comes down to how long it takes to get 2.5kgs of alloy up to temp.
eg:250 125gn 9mm bullets compred to 150 230gn 45 bullets, both bake for the same time at the same temp...
You get where I'm going with this????

Roger that. Like I said it'll be a bit more scientific with the pid.

Next problem is, I have to do some more casting...

[Tazza]

Finding time can be the hard bit....

[Petander]

I'm thinking (always dangerous) that my little radiant heat issue will not get solved by adding a PID. Might try some kind of heat shield...?

Another thing,my oven has two fans. One is on all the time,the other is working with temperature sensor(s). There is some aluminum tubing inside and around the oven for the second fan.The temp is holding pretty solid the way it is.

I'd think in this case it's best to simply replace the passive thermostat circuit with a PID so the second fan stays controlled the way it is,even though there will be more on/off switching by the PID. K-sensors and these very basic KISS PID:s are available.

238427.

Having said that,my coatings are good. Oven @ 195 is pretty solid but the radiant heat gets bullets up to 205. An extra fan might be more useful first.

[Burnt Fingers]

Burnt Fingers
I am wondering what is the thickness that you achieve with the Hi-Tek coatings?
Generally two coats applied to cast provides about 1.8-2.2 thou with two coats.
Some like to coat much thicker, but reality is that in majority of applications two thou should be adequate.
I have had reports where a single reasonable coating has performed adequately, but they look less than pretty.

I coated five different boolits today. I used five different colors of Hi-Tek. With each boolit I measured five samples before and after coating. The samples were marked so I know I was measuring the same boolits.

The thickest coating I measured was 0.0014 This was with Brick Red. Most of them were in the .001-.0012 range with two coats.

Now that I've done that I've got a question. Will we ever seen anything but Christmas colors and black in the US? Red, green gold, and black. There's the Gun Metal which is a gray also. I'd love to see a bright yellow/metallic yellow, orange, purple, and a white. I know from previous reading in this thread that blue is a non-starter with Hi-Tek.

[HI-TEK]

I coated five different boolits today. I used five different colors of Hi-Tek. With each boolit I measured five samples before and after coating. The samples were marked so I know I was measuring the same boolits.

The thickest coating I measured was 0.0014 This was with Brick Red. Most of them were in the .001-.0012 range with two coats.

Now that I've done that I've got a question. Will we ever seen anything but Christmas colors and black in the US? Red, green gold, and black. There's the Gun Metal which is a gray also. I'd love to see a bright yellow/metallic yellow, orange, purple, and a white. I know from previous reading in this thread that blue is a non-starter with Hi-Tek.


To answer your question, the following colours may be available from Donnie,
1. Old Black, Black K-15, Texas Tea (Black with Gold glitter),
2. Dark Green Metallic, Zombie Green, and Kryptonite Green
3. Reds, 122 Red, 254 Red, Black Cherry (Dark Red), and DDR Red, (a flesh coloured pinkish Red)
The Gun Metal is a very dark green going towards Black

Donnie may not have these
4. There is a Burnt Orange colour,
5. Also, there is a colour Desert Sand, (a burnt Yellow type, The bright yellow tans with baking)
6. Purple, and White, None available as the coating destroys these colours.
7. Blue, is definitely not a goer.
8. Pearlescent Black,
9. Blush Red Copper.
10. Blue 818, but this turns a Green colour after baking.

[Stephen Cohen]

I don't care what colour they are they all make short work of anything I shoot them at. I have so many contacting me to try the coating after I gave their mate some coated bullets to try. I admit to having been a wax lube user but no more, I don't begrudge those who still use the wax type lubes but I know I have found the Holly Grail of coatings. Regards Stephen

[Conditor22]

link to colors Donnie has available: Click on the color square and see the product on boolits (except the greens)
http://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/hi-tek-supercoat-powder-3-5-oz-container/

These are NOT metallic
Black Cherry
Brick red
black K15

The following colors are - metallic better for High heat / Rifle
Candy apple red- metallic
Red copper- metallic
Old gold- metallic
Gold 1035- metallic
Gunmetal- metallic
Black 1035- metallic
Bronze 502- metallic
Kryptonite Green- metallic
Zombie green - metallic

[HI-TEK]

link to colors Donnie has available: Click on the color square and see the product on boolits (except the greens)
Black Cherry
Brick red
Zombie green Candy apple red (These are Metallic as well)
red copper ( SAME )
gold 1035 ( SAME )
Gun metal ( SAME )
black 1035 ( SAME )
old gold ( SAME )
black K15 Not Metallic
bronze 502 ( SAME )
Kryptonite Green ( SAME )

http://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/hi-tek-supercoat-powder-3-5-oz-container/

The following colors are metallic / High heat / Rifle
1. Gold 10235- METALLIC/RIFLE
2. Old Gold- METALLIC/RIFLE
3. Red Copper- METALLIC/RIFLE
4. Candy Apple Red- METALLIC/RIFLE
5. Black 1035- METALLIC/RIFLE
6. Kryptonite Green- METALLIC/RIFLE
7. Bronze 500 and Bronze 502- METALLIC/RIFLE
8. Gunmetal- METALLIC/RIFLE

The other colours that are "Metallics " are Pearl Black, Dark Green M, and TMG Composite.

[Ausglock]

Oven photos for Gatch.
Bulb location in oven
https://i.imgur.com/GGBuMtJ.jpg

temp controller.
https://i.imgur.com/DpC9Eug.jpg

Wiring is very basic and easy to modify.
https://i.imgur.com/n701Zec.jpg

temp controller mounted.
https://i.imgur.com/x2vwpvj.jpg

[Burnt Fingers]

To answer your question, the following colours may be available from Donnie,
1. Old Black, Black K-15, Texas Tea (Black with Gold glitter),
2. Dark Green Metallic, Zombie Green, and Kryptonite Green
3. Reds, 122 Red, 254 Red, Black Cherry (Dark Red), and DDR Red, (a flesh coloured pinkish Red)
The Gun Metal is a very dark green going towards Black

Donnie may not have these
4. There is a Burnt Orange colour,
5. Also, there is a colour Desert Sand, (a burnt Yellow type, The bright yellow tans with baking)
6. Purple, and White, None available as the coating destroys these colours.
7. Blue, is definitely not a goer.
8. Pearlescent Black,
9. Blush Red Copper.
10. Blue 818, but this turns a Green colour after baking.

I've got every color Donnie sells.

Too bad about the purple and white.

[Petander]

Greetings from Contamination Nation!

I just cast a batch of round balls using an alloy which has 80% commercial Rio trap shot. I did not flux the shot before pouring it in the pot. It made my valve drip,I also fluxed quite a bit of crud out of it.

Here is how the balls look right now,after an overnight soak in (originally) 30% HCL, the acid is being used for the second time here so it is not as strong anymore.

What I'm saying is,you never know what your lead has unless it is from reputable dealer and/or analyzed. This is my contamination record. Cheap trap shot... I don't even wanna know what is in here. I don't like the idea handling it at all... Enter Hi Tek swirl and bake,all good then.

238593.

After soak and rinse it coats just fine.

[jsizemore]

So far I've let the first coat dry for 30 minutes, 1 hour and 4 hours. Every one has failed the hammer test. Passed the acetone and being run trough a sizing die and reduced in size as much as .0025". Outside temp here has been 60-82degF. I guess I'll have to let them dry a day.

[Vettepilot]

I guess I don't understand how ANY bullet coating can effectively survive a trip through a sizing die, unless the bullet itself was well undersize to begin with. The sizing die will take the coating right off the driving bands, the very area you want to protect from bore contact.

So how does that work? Is the coating trapped in the lube grooves heating up, melting and flowing, and acting like a conventional lube? If so, how does that work for the newer PC bullets with no lube grooves??

Thanks,
Vettepilot

[Conditor22]

jsizemore
Pictures are worth a thousand words. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?375622-Posting-Pictures-using-IMGUR
Dry them in front of a fan.
Your first coat may be to thick how thick are you mixing your solution?
For the first coat try 10 grams powder to 70 ml acetone and use 1 mil solution to 1 pound of boolits
make sure to mix the solution just before measuring it because the solids separate quickly (many use a syringe)
shake/swirl for 10-15 seconds if the coating is rough or the sound while shake'swirl changes your doing it too long.

Test the first coat after it's cooled before doing the second coat

Confirm your oven is actually reaching 200/400°

[Vettepilot]

Thanks, but I'm not actually doing it yet. I am still in the study/evaluate stage at this point. It's looking good, but I still don't understand how sizing a bullet wouldn't take the coating off....

Vettepilot

[Petander]

Thanks, but I'm not actually doing it yet. I am still in the study/evaluate stage at this point. It's looking good, but I still don't understand how sizing a bullet wouldn't take the coating off....

Vettepilot

It's because Hi Tek coating is not just paint on lead. It bonds with lead into one. A sizing die is simply squeezing the coated bullet smaller, not scraping. If it scrapes,it's the lead scraping off as well and then there is a problem with the sizer.

Here is a .4795 bullet as cast and coated. And the same bullet sized to 4765 and gas checked with a standard Lyman sizer. No lube was used,I just took the pic to show.

238618

[Burnt Fingers]

I guess I don't understand how ANY bullet coating can effectively survive a trip through a sizing die, unless the bullet itself was well undersize to begin with. The sizing die will take the coating right off the driving bands, the very area you want to protect from bore contact.

So how does that work? Is the coating trapped in the lube grooves heating up, melting and flowing, and acting like a conventional lube? If so, how does that work for the newer PC bullets with no lube grooves??

Thanks,
Vettepilot

Do you see lead shavings when you size bullets?

The lead compresses and the bullet lengthens. It's pretty simple.

[Tazza]

I never see shavings, the die is tapered, so it just squeezes the projectile down it's not meant to cut anything to give shavings. Even when squeezing down a lot in one step, you can get lead extruding out the base, but no loose shavings should be obvious.

[jsizemore]

First batch was done according to instructions 1ml/lb. 2nd was 4ml/5.5lbs. 3rd batch was 1.25ml/2lbs. I used the ovens thermostat but used a digital thermometer to check and set oven temp on the 1st and 2nd batch. 3rd batch was completely controlled by my PID and convection fan plugged into the outlet. Bake time wasn't started until oven temp hit 375degF on the 1st and 2nd batches. 3rd wasn't started till temp recovered to 390degF and settled at 400 for the 12 minutes it baked.

I mixed the solution at the rate of 20g/309gr with 100ml of acetone purchased at Lowe's just like the instructions say.

[HI-TEK]

I guess I don't understand how ANY bullet coating can effectively survive a trip through a sizing die, unless the bullet itself was well undersize to begin with. The sizing die will take the coating right off the driving bands, the very area you want to protect from bore contact.

So how does that work? Is the coating trapped in the lube grooves heating up, melting and flowing, and acting like a conventional lube? If so, how does that work for the newer PC bullets with no lube grooves??

Thanks,


Vettepilot

Please watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbYOG5xKTr0

The Hi-Tek coating stays on the alloy during severe deformation.
Sizing down 2 or 3 thou is no problem.
Bullets are cast over sized, coated with two or 3 coats, and then after 2nd or third coats are finished, sized to required diameter.
Baked and bonded coating self lubricate when sizing, does not melt or flow or come off.
Sharp cutting type tools/edges, will shave off coating and alloy that is bonded together.
Correctly prepared coating stays put on alloy whilst sizing and shooting.
NO magic at all. It just works.

[HI-TEK]

First batch was done according to instructions 1ml/lb. 2nd was 4ml/5.5lbs. 3rd batch was 1.25ml/2lbs. I used the ovens thermostat but used a digital thermometer to check and set oven temp on the 1st and 2nd batch. 3rd batch was completely controlled by my PID and convection fan plugged into the outlet. Bake time wasn't started until oven temp hit 375degF on the 1st and 2nd batches. 3rd wasn't started till temp recovered to 390degF and settled at 400 for the 12 minutes it baked.

I mixed the solution at the rate of 20g/309gr with 100ml of acetone purchased at Lowe's just like the instructions say.


So jsizemore, did that coating method you described worked OK or not?

I constantly see a great deal of attention being paid to oven temperatures. It must be remembered, that temperature in oven, is measuring air temperatures in a specific area.

What is important is, that that hot air that is being measured inside the oven, that contained heat is in fact transfers into load of coated cast, and that the load reaches 180C, and stay there or higher for about another 3 minutes.
Depending on load, air circulation, (with or without fan) and ovens ability to cope with adequate energy, will determine just how long it takes a specific load to get to correct temperatures for adequate curing.
In short, keeping an eye on load temperature is more important. Oven is a heat source. Time in oven will depends on load, and how long that load takes to get to 180C, plus 3 minutes.

[Petander]

I made these yesterday,watching a thermometer because I tried 6 kg:s (15 lbs) at once.

It took 12 minutes with this load, instead of my usual 8 minutes with half the load. The meter read 185-192°C for the last four minutes. I know that an IR meter (shooting at the bullets) would have read 10°C more because of the radiant heat.

All tests good. Probe was right under the bullet tray.

238648

[HI-TEK]

I made these yesterday,watching a thermometer because I tried 6 kg:s (15 lbs) at once.

It took 12 minutes with this load, instead of my usual 8 minutes with half the load. The meter read 185-192°C for the last four minutes. I know that an IR meter (shooting at the bullets) would have read 10°C more because of the radiant heat.

All tests good. Probe was right under the bullet tray.

238648



Petander, they are beautiful balls lol lol

[Vettepilot]

It's because Hi Tek coating is not just paint on lead. It bonds with lead into one. A sizing die is simply squeezing the coated bullet smaller, not scraping. If it scrapes,it's the lead scraping off as well and then there is a problem with the sizer.

Here is a .4795 bullet as cast and coated. And the same bullet sized to 4765 and gas checked with a standard Lyman sizer. No lube was used,I just took the pic to show.

238618

Ok, I understand now. Thank you very much to all who replied!

Vettepilot

[jsizemore]

So jsizemore, did that coating method you described worked OK or not?

I constantly see a great deal of attention being paid to oven temperatures. It must be remembered, that temperature in oven, is measuring air temperatures in a specific area.

What is important is, that that hot air that is being measured inside the oven, that contained heat is in fact transfers into load of coated cast, and that the load reaches 180C, and stay there or higher for about another 3 minutes.
Depending on load, air circulation, (with or without fan) and ovens ability to cope with adequate energy, will determine just how long it takes a specific load to get to correct temperatures for adequate curing.
In short, keeping an eye on load temperature is more important. Oven is a heat source. Time in oven will depends on load, and how long that load takes to get to 180C, plus 3 minutes.

Still flakes with the hammer test. The tip of the thermocouple is located in the center of the oven between the 2 trays less then an inch from the boolits. Without actually drilling a hole and inserting the thermocouple in the boolit, I feel like it's as close as I can get it to real oven/load temp. Do you actually have your sensing device in contact with the boolits? I do pull them out and check the boolit temp with a IR meter at the end of the 12 minute cook time at 188-195degC. I think I'm getting the "load" to better then the 180degC requirement for the 3 minutes necessary.

[Petander]

Petander, they are beautiful balls lol lol

:)

My friend tried my balls,he fired them through an old,totally hard and dry 6" pine log @ 1375 fps from ten meters. He recovered some:

238654

238655

He is a machinist / long time competition shooter, he has seen a bullet and two, couldn't believe how the coating holds up.

[Tazza]

Still flakes with the hammer test. The tip of the thermocouple is located in the center of the oven between the 2 trays less then an inch from the boolits. Without actually drilling a hole and inserting the thermocouple in the boolit, I feel like it's as close as I can get it to real oven/load temp. Do you actually have your sensing device in contact with the boolits? I do pull them out and check the boolit temp with a IR meter at the end of the 12 minute cook time at 188-195degC. I think I'm getting the "load" to better then the 180degC requirement for the 3 minutes necessary.

I don't think you have a heating issue, as your projectiles are passing the wipe tests, it means it's being cured correctly, it's possible your coating is not fully dried before the initial cook. The outside could be hard and dry, but the inside may be slightly wet, causing bonding issues. Also, the metal might be contaminated with something like oil from your hands or sprue plate lube?

Something is stopping it bonding, as you are getting hard flakes that do not wipe off with solvent, you are baking it long enough.

[jsizemore]

I think your right about the drying. I just coated 1.5lbs of Lyman #2 cast boolits with 1.25ml of 309gr/100ml solution. It's chilly here so I swirled and tossed for 20 seconds. I rigged a dryer with a 15gal steel drum and 60watt incandescent bulb. I'm gonna let them dry for a day and do the bake tomorrow.

Before coating I cleaned my coating bowl twice with acetone. Since casting these boolits over the weekend they haven't been touch with bare or gloved hand. The past 2 casting sessions I have not put sprue plate lube on this mold, an H&G #309 4 cavity mold that casts at .358 and still doesn't fill the throat on my SA 1911 9mm Luger. The reason I'm pursuing this process.

I'll let ya'll know what's what.

[Tazza]

Hopefully that will do the trick *fingers crossed*

[Conditor22]

jsizemore
how much did the HiTek coating add to the original diameter of the boolit after 2 coats?
IF the coating is to thick it will take much longer to dry.

[jsizemore]

2 coats added about .0015-.002. I actually sized all the boolits I coated so can't say exactly.

[Ausglock]

Just get an Elcheapo fanheater and sit the tray of coated bullets in front of it for 10 minutes.
The bullets need to be warmer than your hand when you touch them. Easy.
Or....place a few 1" high spacers on top of your oven and sit the tray of bullets on the top while the oven is getting up to temp. Even that is enough to warm the bullets and stop the flaking.

[jsizemore]

Just get an Elcheapo fanheater and sit the tray of coated bullets in front of it for 10 minutes.
The bullets need to be warmer than your hand when you touch them. Easy.
Or....place a few 1" high spacers on top of your oven and sit the tray of bullets on the top while the oven is getting up to temp. Even that is enough to warm the bullets and stop the flaking.

I set the trays boolits on top of the oven each time it came to initial temp. Wind, no wind all resulted in failures.

[Ausglock]

I set the trays boolits on top of the oven each time it came to initial temp. Wind, no wind all resulted in failures.

OK... but are they warm to the touch???If they are, and you still get flaking, you are using too much per coat. thin it down.

[HI-TEK]

I set the trays boolits on top of the oven each time it came to initial temp. Wind, no wind all resulted in failures.

jsizemore

Can I direct matters back to the start.
Flaking failures, aside from contaminants/lubes being on cast, for failures, 99% plus, is directly due to inadequate drying which also can result from using far too much coating on the first coat.

I am not including complications from possibility of coated cast not getting up to correct cure temperatures.

Explanation of what I am trying to get to as set out below.

These details are specifically applicable for the first coat, and I have to assume that coated alloy gets to 180C or above during baking.
Oven air temperature quoted, does not tell me, the temperature of coated cast load inside oven.

Evaporation of solvent, chills cast by up to 5C below ambient. This chilling, attracts moisture to the coating.

During drying, a skin forms on surface of coating which is already colder than ambient temperatures.
If too much coating is used, these are main things that happen:-

1. More solvent evaporation, and more chilling of alloy which attracts more moisture and forms thick coating.
2. Drying, results of a formation of a skin on coating surface, and traps moisture that is absorbed from ambient air.
3. Inadequate drying, can be simply exposed, the instant you put coated product into the oven.

Trapped moisture can expand over a thousand times original volume, sooooo, the steam produced, (below dry skin of coating) simply lifts coating off alloy allowing coating to cure, but coating is not bonded to alloy.

A simple test can be done to determine if coating is dry enough or not.

When you think that coating is dry, take only a few, place it into the oven, bake for say 10-12 minutes at 200C.
Don't worry about colour at this stage.
Remove the few from oven, cool and examine.
If surface is irregular and looks like orange peel with fine blisters, you had moisture in the coating and was definitely not dry.

These few will fail tests.

Rubbing with solvent will remove non bonded flaky coating, and smash test will shred coating off as flakes.
Continue drying the bulk, with warmed forced air circulation.

Re test with a few, after longer drying.
Continue drying of the bulk. . Keep testing with a few each time, at exactly same conditions, until you get a pass with tests. ONLY then, bake the bulk lot.

I hope these steps resolve the problems.

[ioon44]

I think your right about the drying. I just coated 1.5lbs of Lyman #2 cast boolits with 1.25ml of 309gr/100ml solution. It's chilly here so I swirled and tossed for 20 seconds. I rigged a dryer with a 15gal steel drum and 60watt incandescent bulb. I'm gonna let them dry for a day and do the bake tomorrow.

Before coating I cleaned my coating bowl twice with acetone. Since casting these boolits over the weekend they haven't been touch with bare or gloved hand. The past 2 casting sessions I have not put sprue plate lube on this mold, an H&G #309 4 cavity mold that casts at .358 and still doesn't fill the throat on my SA 1911 9mm Luger. The reason I'm pursuing this process.

I'll let ya'll know what's what.

My drying procedure is to bring the first coat up to 120 deg F to 140 deg F for 15 min to 30 min, you can place them out in full sunshine or a fan heater or wood stove any thing to reach the target temp. 140 deg F is about to hot to hold in you hand.

If you don't get the first coat dry then all else fails.

The way I clean my coating bowl's is to place the new cast bullets in the bowl and add some Acetone and shake until the bullets pick up enough coating for the first coat.

This coating is a really great product as very little goes to waste.

[Burnt Fingers]

jsizemore

Can I direct matters back to the start.
Flaking failures, aside from contaminants/lubes being on cast, for failures, 99% plus, is directly due to inadequate drying which also can result from using far too much coating on the first coat.

I am not including complications from possibility of coated cast not getting up to correct cure temperatures.

Explanation of what I am trying to get to as set out below.

These details are specifically applicable for the first coat, and I have to assume that coated alloy gets to 180C or above during baking.
Oven air temperature quoted, does not tell me, the temperature of coated cast load inside oven.

Evaporation of solvent, chills cast by up to 5C below ambient. This chilling, attracts moisture to the coating.

During drying, a skin forms on surface of coating which is already colder than ambient temperatures.
If too much coating is used, these are main things that happen:-

1. More solvent evaporation, and more chilling of alloy which attracts more moisture and forms thick coating.
2. Drying, results of a formation of a skin on coating surface, and traps moisture that is absorbed from ambient air.
3. Inadequate drying, can be simply exposed, the instant you put coated product into the oven.

Trapped moisture can expand over a thousand times original volume, sooooo, the steam produced, (below dry skin of coating) simply lifts coating off alloy allowing coating to cure, but coating is not bonded to alloy.

A simple test can be done to determine if coating is dry enough or not.

When you think that coating is dry, take only a few, place it into the oven, bake for say 10-12 minutes at 200C.
Don't worry about colour at this stage.
Remove the few from oven, cool and examine.
If surface is irregular and looks like orange peel with fine blisters, you had moisture in the coating and was definitely not dry.

These few will fail tests.

Rubbing with solvent will remove non bonded flaky coating, and smash test will shred coating off as flakes.
Continue drying the bulk, with warmed forced air circulation.

Re test with a few, after longer drying.
Continue drying of the bulk. . Keep testing with a few each time, at exactly same conditions, until you get a pass with tests. ONLY then, bake the bulk lot.

I hope these steps resolve the problems.

:goodpost:

I've had that orange peel happen to me. Now I know why.

[Conditor22]

In cold climates, Try warming the boolits before you start coating (Bake them a little then let them cool down so you can hold in a bare hand before coating ** with warm boolits the coating will flash off faster when you are swirling**)

[jsizemore]

My drying procedure is to bring the first coat up to 120 deg F to 140 deg F for 15 min to 30 min, you can place them out in full sunshine or a fan heater or wood stove any thing to reach the target temp. 140 deg F is about to hot to hold in you hand.

If you don't get the first coat dry then all else fails.

The way I clean my coating bowl's is to place the new cast bullets in the bowl and add some Acetone and shake until the bullets pick up enough coating for the first coat.

This coating is a really great product as very little goes to waste.

I think your right about there being enough residual coating in the bowl from previous sessions for a first coat. If everything works out with this batch I'm gonna give it a try with acetone only added to the "dirty" coating bowl.

I did check the warming/drying light bulb oven. The wire tray felt warm to the touch but it was about 40degF this morning.

[Petander]

My drying procedure is to bring the first coat up to 120 deg F to 140 deg F for 15 min to 30 min, you can place them out in full sunshine or a fan heater or wood stove any thing to reach the target temp. 140 deg F is about to hot to hold in you hand.

.

I'm drying this way,too. Gives a nice little pre-heat as well.

[Gatch]

Looks good thanks for the photos Trev. I coatwd a few batches last night in the coldish shed. The results are way different from last week. Still no pid but. Half of them failed the wipe test. What do you do with those ones ?

[Ausglock]

stick them back in and bake them again.

[jsizemore]

I left the coated bullets in the dryer for 24hours. Stuck them in the oven when it hit 250F. Started the timer at 390F and cooked for 12 minutes. It's cool enough here that it took 4 minutes to hit 397F and 4 more to make 400F. 5 minutes after I pulled them out I did the smash test and................. the coating stayed in place like it should. Added diameter to bullets is .0005-.001". Since it's a single coat there's thin spots in the coating here and there. I'm gonna size and shoot a few and coat the rest for a second bake.

I'm gonna try to reactivate what's built in my coating bowl with straight acetone like ioon44 for a first coat or just add 25-30% acetone to the solution. I'll keep refining my procedure. It's great to have another tool in the kit. I hope this solves my 1911 9mm problem.

Thanks for everyone's help.

[HI-TEK]

I left the coated bullets in the dryer for 24hours. Stuck them in the oven when it hit 250F. Started the timer at 390F and cooked for 12 minutes. It's cool enough here that it took 4 minutes to hit 397F and 4 more to make 400F. 5 minutes after I pulled them out I did the smash test and................. the coating stayed in place like it should. Added diameter to bullets is .0005-.001". Since it's a single coat there's thin spots in the coating here and there. I'm gonna size and shoot a few and coat the rest for a second bake.

I'm gonna try to reactivate what's built in my coating bowl with straight acetone like ioon44 for a first coat or just add 25-30% acetone to the solution. I'll keep refining my procedure. It's great to have another tool in the kit. I hope this solves my 1911 9mm problem.

Thanks for everyone's help.


Thanks for update. Looks like you got there OK.
Generally two coats increases size by 1.5 to 2 thou.
It will be interesting to see how things go with a single coat, but if you are trying to get high performance loads then you will benefit with a second coat.
The project really highlighted the problems that can occur with not realising what can occur with a single step of not drying enough.
I am glad you now have success.

[jsizemore]

I recast my first bullets 5 times before I got bullet casting right. Hi-Tek coating took 4 tries and I only recast once.

[HI-TEK]

Looks good thanks for the photos Trev. I coated a few batches last night in the coldish shed. The results are way different from last week. Still no pid but. Half of them failed the wipe test. What do you do with those ones ?

Gatch
If you had 50% failing wipe test, it is obvious that either you over loaded your oven, OR, your oven had no fan, OR, the heat distribution in oven was unable to evenly bake the load that you put into oven, OR all of above.

Variations in same tray tells me that you had very poor air circulation, and some cast heated up OK and others did not.
Having a PID is only good at controlling a set temperature. A PID cannot improve air circulation.

Please note; all coated cast, (aside from having to be bone dry) has to reach temperatures, reasonably evenly to 180C, and then stay there or above for another 3 minutes.

Looking at thermometers, measuring oven air temperatures at specific point, is not representing true temperatures of coated cast load temperatures in your oven.
Air temperature only tells me, that air is adequately hot enough, BUT,..... that heat in oven air,.... must then be transferred into load.
The only way to do that, is good air circulation.
Simply, the hot air inside your oven, must be well circulated, to ensure all cast is heated evenly and to correct temperature for even and correct cure. PID will control large temperature swings.

[Burnt Fingers]

Gatch
If you had 50% failing wipe test, it is obvious that either you over loaded your oven, OR, your oven had no fan, OR, the heat distribution in oven was unable to evenly bake the load that you put into oven, OR all of above.

Variations in same tray tells me that you had very poor air circulation, and some cast heated up OK and others did not.
Having a PID is only good at controlling a set temperature. A PID cannot improve air circulation.

Please note; all coated cast, (aside from having to be bone dry) has to reach temperatures, reasonably evenly to 180C, and then stay there or above for another 3 minutes.

Looking at thermometers, measuring oven air temperatures at specific point, is not representing true temperatures of coated cast load temperatures in your oven.
Air temperature only tells me, that air is adequately hot enough, BUT,..... that heat in oven air,.... must then be transferred into load.
The only way to do that, is good air circulation.
Simply, the hot air inside your oven, must be well circulated, to ensure all cast is heated evenly and to correct temperature for even and correct cure. PID will control large temperature swings.

Toaster ovens generally don't have fans. You need a convection oven. I bought a countertop convection oven at Walmart for $79.99. I've been using it for several years. It's baked thousands of pounds of boolits, jigs, and lures. IMHO it was money well spent.

[Gatch]

Gatch
If you had 50% failing wipe test, it is obvious that either you over loaded your oven, OR, your oven had no fan, OR, the heat distribution in oven was unable to evenly bake the load that you put into oven, OR all of above.

Variations in same tray tells me that you had very poor air circulation, and some cast heated up OK and others did not.
Having a PID is only good at controlling a set temperature. A PID cannot improve air circulation.

Please note; all coated cast, (aside from having to be bone dry) has to reach temperatures, reasonably evenly to 180C, and then stay there or above for another 3 minutes.

Looking at thermometers, measuring oven air temperatures at specific point, is not representing true temperatures of coated cast load temperatures in your oven.
Air temperature only tells me, that air is adequately hot enough, BUT,..... that heat in oven air,.... must then be transferred into load.
The only way to do that, is good air circulation.
Simply, the hot air inside your oven, must be well circulated, to ensure all cast is heated evenly and to correct temperature for even and correct cure. PID will control large temperature swings.

Thanks for the reply mate. The only variables I can think of is variation of oven temp, variation in the ambient temp, the amount of mixture used and the condition of the container I do the hitek/acetone mixing.

The oven is new and the fan works well, so it's definitely circulating air. I measure out the bullets by weight. I haven't recieved my pid kit yet, hopefully it shows up today. I haven't been measuring out the mix by volume with a syringe like Trev suggested. Just using a measuring spoon. Also the container I used, turns out the lid isn't safe for solvent use, lol. The plastic liner has almost completely melted and filled the container with little blobs of plastic. I've turfed that one and am using a glass jar now.

From this point on, I'll use the syringe to measure out the mix and won't bake any until I get the pid attached and working.

[Tazza]

I found the seal on my glass jars gets a bit limp from the solvent, not a lot you can really do unless you find something solvent resistant.

If you are using dark colours, cook 'em longer. I cook my K15 black at 200c for 12 minutes, longer than i need, but they pass the tests and you can't turn the black too black :) Hopefully there are no issues going a little hotter, but Joe did mention you need 180c or higher for at least 3 minutes.

Even the red i use, i do 200c for 12 minutes, they are a smidge darker, but still look awesome.

[HI-TEK]

Thanks for the reply mate. The only variables I can think of is variation of oven temp, variation in the ambient temp, the amount of mixture used and the condition of the container I do the hitek/acetone mixing.

The oven is new and the fan works well, so it's definitely circulating air. I measure out the bullets by weight. I haven't recieved my pid kit yet, hopefully it shows up today. I haven't been measuring out the mix by volume with a syringe like Trev suggested. Just using a measuring spoon. Also the container I used, turns out the lid isn't safe for solvent use, lol. The plastic liner has almost completely melted and filled the container with little blobs of plastic. I've turfed that one and am using a glass jar now.

From this point on, I'll use the syringe to measure out the mix and won't bake any until I get the pid attached and working.

Thanks Gatch,

You may have identified another source of contamination, that would have caused your failures.
I don't know, if your failures had been caused by your oven or drying or temperature control, or, caused by contamination of your mixing container dissolving in coating mixture. (possibly all)
If your jar/lid is dissolving into coating/Acetone mix, then you would have extracted polymers, plasticisers, and god knows what else.
That would definitely not help situation.
We are trying to sort out why you are having coating problems, and find out well down the track, that what we were missing is the contamination that would be contributing to failures.
It may be quite possible that you could have made good coated projectiles, if your mixing container was suitable for the Acetone coating mixture.

[Ausglock]

Just go to Bunnings and get a 2 litre white pail. they are acetone safe.

[Stephen Cohen]

I found the seal on my glass jars gets a bit limp from the solvent, not a lot you can really do unless you find something solvent resistant.

If you are using dark colours, cook 'em longer. I cook my K15 black at 200c for 12 minutes, longer than i need, but they pass the tests and you can't turn the black too black :) Hopefully there are no issues going a little hotter, but Joe did mention you need 180c or higher for at least 3 minutes.

Even the red i use, i do 200c for 12 minutes, they are a smidge darker, but still look awesome.

I use a lot of those Tomato sauce squeeze bottles for coating and they all work well. Regards Stephen

[eljefeoz]

Just go to Bunnings and get a 2 litre white pail. they are acetone safe.

I use the Bunnings 125 ml acetone containers and add the required quantity of epoxy powder directly to it. I’ve also found that vitamin D and fish oil capsule empty boxes make good mixing containers. I clean them with acetone before use.

[Ausglock]

https://i.imgur.com/ioK6tGs.jpg

[HI-TEK]

https://i.imgur.com/ioK6tGs.jpg


That is a great tumble mixer, looks simple but very well designed. How many do you coat each time, and, how many can you put through in a day?
I like the bucket handle, where you can simply lift out, pour out to dry, and back for the next batch.

[Ausglock]

15 second tumble. 2.5kg per load. really makes a big day of coating easy.

[Stephen Cohen]

That looks remarkably like the waste bin under my computer desk, that is a nice set up Ausglock. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

That is exactly what it is. A waste paper basket.

[Conditor22]

My "budget model :) using a used computer power supply, windshield wiper motor, old light switch, used wheels, scrap metal strap, and wood.
Not a nice as Trevors but it works :)

https://i.imgur.com/B3KN8xA.jpg?2

https://i.imgur.com/yFjnYbQ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OTtqxCK.jpg

I can't imagine swirling by hand

[Ausglock]

So long as it works is all that matters..

[Gremlin460]

Well I got nothing to add...

[dikman]

For what it's worth (probably not much) I use those plastic "buckets" that yoghurt comes in (2 kg). They're made from polypropylene and appear to be impervious to acetone.

[Ausglock]

Well I got nothing to add...

Bloody Hell..... The Banana bending Pom is speechless...???? I don't believe it... lol

[Stephen Cohen]

Bloody Hell..... The Banana bending Pom is speechless...???? I don't believe it... lol

You crack me up, I doubt many on this forum will ever understand Australian humour. Regards Stephen

[Gremlin460]

Bloody Hell..... The Banana bending Pom is speechless...???? I don't believe it... lol

NOOooooo I said I had nothing to add, not that I had nothing to say.

Yet again I am amazed at how hard or complicated people make this process! Its so simple I stopped wipe and smash testing over 18 months ago. But, it does make the forum interesting reading I suppose.

Just remember Banana Bending is a art!.

[HI-TEK]

Yet again I am amazed at how hard or complicated people make this process! Its so simple I stopped wipe and smash testing over 18 months ago. But, it does make the forum interesting reading I suppose.

Just remember Banana Bending is a art!.

Grem

Amen to that... I think that forum title is SIMPLE Hi-Tek coating, can I say more...….

Banana bending is a special skill, art and know how, known only to northern dwellers.
I tried to reverse engineer to making a straight Banana, I failed miserably, so instead, I ended up eating the Banana..

[Stephen Cohen]

The three main problems with using Hi-Tek is those who don't read instructions till all else fails, those who will not or can not take helpful advice and those who will not accept they did something wrong and blame the product. I know of one member who had no luck and drove many here bonkers trying to help him as he just could not seem to grasp any of it, Through several PMs he has finally has success and is now producing good coated cast. I think anyone who has been here since those early days when Joe finally become an eggshell blond will agree we have all come a long way and learned many new skills and had a good laugh along the way with the friendly banter. Regards Stephen

[jsizemore]

There's always a sale after I buy mine.

[HI-TEK]

^^^^^

That sounds like a great offer. I hope many will take up the discounted offer and stock up.

[ioon44]

"4. Allow the coated cast to dry fully once they are coated. If they go into the oven wet, or with inadequate drying, the coating will bubble up and look rough, and the fumes are harsh and can be flammable. Give adequate time to dry, don’t rush drying, the warmer and drier the space you work in the better. Coating may take as little as 10 minutes to several hours to dry. This is dependent on the ambient temperature and humidity and air circulation."

I found this part of the instructions did not define what "warmer and dryer" needs to be for the actual temperature of the bullet coating to be fully dry.

After several remelts I settled on getting the coated bullets up to 120 deg F or more for 30 min, this may be over kill but I have not had a failure for several years now.
I know every one has a different set up and different ambient temperature to deal with, but getting the first coat dry is the key to success.

[HI-TEK]

The three main problems with using Hi-Tek is those who don't read instructions till all else fails, those who will not or can not take helpful advice and those who will not accept they did something wrong and blame the product. I know of one member who had no luck and drove many here bonkers trying to help him as he just could not seem to grasp any of it, Through several PMs he has finally has success and is now producing good coated cast. I think anyone who has been here since those early days when Joe finally become an eggshell blond will agree we have all come a long way and learned many new skills and had a good laugh along the way with the friendly banter. Regards Stephen

Right on Stephen.
Eggshell blonde???? I have no hair left after ripping all out in frustration over years.

I have to laugh at Ausglocks crazy sense of humour, and he certainly stirs the pot.

This crazy stuff called Hi-Tek certainly stirred up the natives some.
All the unique questions and new applications, has really taught me a few things. I don't know, if in the period if I have mellowed any however.

It seems that my search for the elusive Blue may be possible. It is now being tested. So far, it passes all tests, except solvent wipe test. I am working on that aspect. If I succeed, there may be a deep Royal Blue product. I am not holding out any unreasonable expectations, but I am only hoping.
It has only taken some 20 plus years.

[Gremlin460]

Well Trev is busy, so I suppose I could help out with the testing for you.

Not like the doc is letting me work much..

Another 25Litre bucket of WW arrived last week, had to use a sack trolly to move it.
I got that much Zinc I bought some fishing weight molds, the stuff aint worth taking to the scrappers anymore, so will put it to good use out in the bay.
And no I have no plans to coat them.

[Gatch]

Salutations gentlemen.

Couple things. PID got hooked into oven tonight. After thinking I had it sorted I realised I'd hooked it into the common neutral wire. So after repairing that little booboo I hooked it into the element selector switch instead. Played around with it and it works a charm. Stoked !

Second thing. 10 rounds with the hitek green lee 125gr rn boolits leaded up my barrel nicely. It was mostly in the rifling grooves. I can see why people are so keen to avoid leading. What a pain to clean ! So I started at step 1 and slugged my barrel again. Grooves measure .3555-.356 so the coated boolits get sized to .357. The boolits I used are straight coww, they were coated twice and passed both the solvent wipe and smash test. These ones were even a bit over cooked and went pretty dark green. I'm using 4.0gr of ap70 (hodgson universal in usa) which SHOULD give me around 1000fps. I don't remember the oal off the top of my head. I will check tomorrow. I pulled a boolit out of a loaded case and it measured .355. Is this indicating I need to make a larger diameter expander plug/powder funnel for the dillon ? Also if I have crimped too much, will this swage the bullet down as it goes past the crimp ?

[Petander]

Well Trev is busy, so I suppose I could help out with the testing for you.

.

Count me in as a volunteer tester,too. I can't wait for "Bent Banana Yellow".

[Burnt Fingers]

Right on Stephen.
Eggshell blonde???? I have no hair left after ripping all out in frustration over years.

I have to laugh at Ausglocks crazy sense of humour, and he certainly stirs the pot.

This crazy stuff called Hi-Tek certainly stirred up the natives some.
All the unique questions and new applications, has really taught me a few things. I don't know, if in the period if I have mellowed any however.

It seems that my search for the elusive Blue may be possible. It is now being tested. So far, it passes all tests, except solvent wipe test. I am working on that aspect. If I succeed, there may be a deep Royal Blue product. I am not holding out any unreasonable expectations, but I am only hoping.
It has only taken some 20 plus years.

That's great news!

[Ausglock]

Gatch... FFS... do NOT use a Lee Carbide Factory crimp die. It will Flock up your bullet dia.