simple Hi-Tek coating

[Avenger442]

Will try Joe. But this stuff is in completely dried chunks in the bottle. I may have to soak it in acetone for a while to soften before it will mix.

[HI-TEK]

Will try Joe. But this stuff is in completely dried chunks in the bottle. I may have to soak it in acetone for a while to soften before it will mix.

Yes, it will take more of an effort to re-mix, but it should mix in. Can you get any MEK? This is a stronger solvent and may assist with dissolving faster than Acetone.

With plastic bottles you are using, these have fairly thin walls. Solvents permeate through walls. Most solvent type bottled are high density Poly-Ethylene or Poly-Propylene types. Caps should have a Poly wadding in them to seal. Many simply store made up liquids in an old fridge. This slows down darkening and reduces solvent losses. If you only have small batches, the cost of storing them far outweighs losses if you throw out unused residue. I don't like wasting stuff and use it whilst and if possible.

[Avenger442]

I'm like you, don't like to waste stuff. Hence the liquid detergent bottles. If I had planned to store for a long period I may have used something else. But being a hobby cast and coater I usually only coat small lots of bullets. Probably 10 pounds at most. So when I get through I almost always have some coating left. I have a large bottle that has several mixed batches combined in it. Lost count of how many. I shook it last night and it has not fully re-mixed. I could probably coat three coats many thousands of bullets with that bottle.

But agin,I will try to re-mix the completely dried and coat some rifle bullets with it.

[HI-TEK]

I'm like you, don't like to waste stuff. Hence the liquid detergent bottles. If I had planned to store for a long period I may have used something else. But being a hobby cast and coater I usually only coat small lots of bullets. Probably 10 pounds at most. So when I get through I almost always have some coating left. I have a large bottle that has several mixed batches combined in it. Lost count of how many. I shook it last night and it has not fully re-mixed. I could probably coat three coats many thousands of bullets with that bottle.

But agin,I will try to re-mix the completely dried and coat some rifle bullets with it.

Ausglock told me that he had many colours that were left over, and he mixed the whole lot in one bottle, and used it OK. Some were very old. He does keep it in a fridge to slow down losses and darkening, but there is always some changes to original appearance.
Once he coats with a blend of all mix, he simply over coats with the Black K-15, so it ends up Black any way. At least he uses up all coatings.
He can end up with 3-5 thin coats, and it seems to work OK.

[Tazza]

Ausglock told me that he had many colours that were left over, and he mixed the whole lot in one bottle, and used it OK. Some were very old. He does keep it in a fridge to slow down losses and darkening, but there is always some changes to original appearance.
Once he coats with a blend of all mix, he simply over coats with the Black K-15, so it ends up Black any way. At least he uses up all coatings.

He can end up with 3-5 thin coats, and it seems to work OK.

That is exactly what i was thinking, use the mix of colours as a base/primer, then a top coat to make them "pretty" saves wasting any coating.

[Ausglock]

Ausglock told me that he had many colours that were left over, and he mixed the whole lot in one bottle, and used it OK. Some were very old. He does keep it in a fridge to slow down losses and darkening, but there is always some changes to original appearance.
Once he coats with a blend of all mix, he simply over coats with the Black K-15, so it ends up Black any way. At least he uses up all coatings.
He can end up with 3-5 thin coats, and it seems to work OK.
Yep. That is where the Deadpool bullets come from.
2 coats of Red 245M with 1 coat of Black K15.
Second coat of black now on waiting to get time to bake.

[cptkeybrd]

wondering how much BHN we loose after heating 400 for powder coating?

[Grmps]

You don't lose any BHN UNLESS you water quenched when casting

[dansedgli]

dansedgli
You have done very well. These look great.
Just an observation, on the last cooked tray, seems to indicate on some being a tad more Tan than rest. I am wondering if you may have had a hot spot area where these cooked a bit harder, or is it shadow on picture? Irrespective, I think that they are great and you are doing well with having this one the first time to use.
The way you are going, you will out do Ausglock......

I dont think it is a shadow. Some bullets have tan patchy bits.

I was going to put it down to using only 4mls on the 2nd coat but I'm also using a $99 Kmart convection oven so that won't be perfect.

They still look good and Im sure will shoot well so I am happy.

[Ausglock]

Dan.
I have 4 of the Kmart ovens setup to do most of my production baking.
I retro fitted them with a capilliary thermostat probe/dial.
Far better temp holding and all 4 ovens run the same setting.
I'll post a few pics when I get home.
2.5Kg in each for 12 minutes.... perfect... Temp is set at 190deg C.
It takes a few minutes longer, but less chance of overbaking with the 10 Deg cooler setting.

[Grmps]

Yep. That is where the Deadpool bullets come from.
2 coats of Red 245M with 1 coat of Black K15.
Second coat of black now on waiting to get time to bake.

You ruin an excellent looking boolit by adding another coat of black :(

[Ausglock]

Yep...
Gotta be able to sell them once the test is done.

[dansedgli]

This one?

http://www.kmart.com.au/product/45l-convection-oven/875301

Ive got a PID with a probe just under the bullet tray. I'll give the lower temp and more weight a try next time.

[Ausglock]

Yep. similar. Mine are the older version.
https://i.imgur.com/GGBuMtJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/DpC9Eug.jpg

[dansedgli]

Your fan is much bigger than mine. Mine has a smaller one on the right hand side under the rotisserie thingo.

That might be my issue.

[lazs]

For me the hardest color to mix after setting a few months is the black. If there is a little left in a container of a color and I want to mix another color I just mix on top so my colors are generally a mix.. and like above.. I will mix left over colors all in one and add acetone. I bake a bit longer than instructions so my bullets are all darker than normal anyway.

lazs

[Ausglock]

Your fan is much bigger than mine. Mine has a smaller one on the right hand side under the rotisserie thingo.

That might be my issue.

Pull the fan blade off and put more hook on the end of the blades. gives more airflow.

[glockfan]

^^^
great idea right there...might try this one on both my B&D.

[Michael J. Spangler]

220576

Couple slightly over baked bullets. 44 wadcutter and 44 round nose out of a Belgian contract S&W model 3
They hit the concrete backstop pretty hard and flew into the sand bern.
This Hi-Tek stuff seems to hold on Pretty well.

[dikman]

The Single Action Shooting Society publish a journal and the April issue has an article about Hi-Tek. Looks like someone else has discovered it and the article may generate a bit of interest among the Single Action crowd.
Can be downloaded here (it's a .pdf) - https://www.sassnet.com/CCArchive.php

[slide]

That is a good article.

[HI-TEK]

Will try Joe. But this stuff is in completely dried chunks in the bottle. I may have to soak it in acetone for a while to soften before it will mix.

Avenger
How did you end up with re dissolving experiment?

[HI-TEK]

That is a good article.

Yes Slide, it is a great write up.
Had a look at Chey Cast and they have a large range of coated cast.
They seem to be able to satisfy most calibres.

I had talked with local cowboy clubs, and their ammo is basically soft Lead, with a huge lube groove to fill with tons of waxy grease type lube. They actually want lots of smoke, and grease in bore, They said, that the grease residues remaining are continued to be pushed out with each shot, which left more lube behind for next shot.
After all activity, they clean their guns.

[slide]

To each their own! I guess the smoke is part of the experience.

[lazs]

I am not a cowboy action shooter but I think the author of that article was more concerned with lead particulates than with the smoke. I guess if you wanted a little bit of smoke from smokeless rounds you could fill the lube groove with soft lube on the HT coated bullets. Black powder of course would still smoke regardless..

One thing I noted in the article was that even shooting the HT bullets behind black powder... The guns stayed cleaner than normal and he was able to finish the match without stopping to clean the guns... this to me would be a huge advantage.

lazs

[dikman]

I agree, lazs, he obviously wanted to reduce any possible issues with actually handling lead, the other benefits of using Hi-Tek were a bonus. As for smoke, most I know use smokeless powder because of the convenience, it's not necessary to clean the guns every time they're used compared to BP - they have to be cleaned after use or you're asking for trouble and if cartridges aren't soaked straight away you've got more problems. You would still need to lube the grooves, even with Hi-Tek, if shooting BP otherwise it's going to foul barrels real quick. There's nothing quite like shooting BP :D, it's just the cleaning that is a pain!

[lazs]

yeah... one thing I notice is that the guns are just all around cleaner including what I thought was powder residue. I can put away a gun I have shot with HT bullets for one session and not feel guilty... a little wipe with a CLP rag. a little grease on the rails of the semi autos.

lazs

[Avenger442]

Avenger
How did you end up with re dissolving experiment?

We have been out of town for a while so have not got to it yet. Wife needed a break before she starts a new schedule at work. They have put her on twelve hour shifts starting Thursday.

[Tazza]

We have been out of town for a while so have not got to it yet. Wife needed a break before she starts a new schedule at work. They have put her on twelve hour shifts starting Thursday.

Sounds like her new boss is a slave driver! I hope you both enjoyed the much needed time away.

[Avenger442]

I did some testing with homemade black powder and some hollow point 44s coated with Hi Tek in magnum shells. For it, I used a little home made grease on the butt of the bullet and a waxed thin cardboard wad between grease and powder. For those that don't know, I didn't, the grease helps keep the black powder fowling soft in the barrel so that it will come out easily when cleaned. They shot amazingly well considering the whole homemade aspect. Will not do it again. Cleaning a gun after black powder use is just not my thing. It didn't just fowl the barrel of the Ruger. Pretty much had to take gun apart to clean everything. I'm spoiled to not cleaning until after a few hundred rounds.

[Avenger442]

Sounds like her new boss is a slave driver! I hope you both enjoyed the much needed time away.

Yeah. She is a nurse working for Ascension Health Care System. I used to work 16 hour shifts six days at a steel mill back when I was in my twenties. Know I couldn't do it now. Had lots of money with no time to spend it. She will be working 12 hours four days one week then three twelves then something else the next week. It's a crazy schedule that I can't even see how it will benefit the patient. A tired worker is one that makes mistakes. We will see how it works out. She is eligible for early retirement next month. But she loves nursing and I don't know if I can talk her into completely retiring.

[Tazza]

I figured it must have been health care with those hours.

I'm with you on thinking long shifts are silly, a tired nurse or doctor makes mistakes, why not have more smaller shifts on rotation? it just seems stupid to me to keep one person there longer that on on their feet all day.

When young, you can do longer hours and still be ok. We had that in the mining areas a few years ago when we were exporting loads of resources. The money was insane, you work your guts out for a few years, then you can come home and buy a house.

[HI-TEK]

When young, you can do longer hours and still be ok. We had that in the mining areas a few years ago when we were exporting loads of resources. The money was insane, you work your guts out for a few years, then you can come home and buy a house.

Tazza,
I used to work shift work, 12 hour days, 6 days on day shift, 6am to 6pm, , then 3 days off, the 6 days night shift 6pm to 6 am.
It really was not worth the money, and damage to health and family relationships, no week ends, not going out, as I slept trying to catch up to my out of whack timeclock., and not to mention eating breakfast at 6pm, and lunch at midnight one week, and back to normal following week.
The 3 days off always was not on any week end, so friends and family were at work.
Looking back I would never do it again.

[Tazza]

I can see it really messing with your body clock. If the pay is stupidly high and you don't have family commitments that could be stressed by it, it's doable, mostly when young. I know if i tried doing that now, I'd be divorced in short order as I'd never be there, apparently we haven't been married long enough for her not to want me around :)

A fellow shooter is a cop, he does shift work as he gets paid quite a bit more, but you are doing nights, then days then afternoons, there is no normality to the times. He has young kids, but he and his wife make it work thankfully. He manages to get the needed sleep in and is just fine with it, that sort of thing messes with me too much.

[dikman]

Tazza, I worked shifts for a while - 8 hr shifts, 7 morning, 7 afternoons and 7 nights. Occasionally worked double shift if someone was sick. We had a young family then (2 girls) and the shiftwork actually worked out well for us, as it gave me time to do things with the kids that others couldn't do. Not real great on Christmas Day, though, when I had to work but we managed.
All research shows that night shift is the big killer, if you can get on and stay on it for awhile it's not so bad as your body can adjust, it's when you're on an on/off/on night shift roster that the problems occur.

Avenger, yeah, if you don't use lube with BP you're going to have problems real quick. With my cap and ball revolver I use "cookies" - little discs of wax lube that go between the powder and the ball. I actually coated some of the balls with Hi-Tek once, didn't do anything useful, of course but they sure looked pretty! If I used BP with my cartridge revolvers I'd probably put cookies between the powder and the boolit, but it would slow reloading considerably.

[Ausglock]

I did 18 years of 8hr shifts on 5days rotation. 00:00 to 0800, 0800 to 1600, 1600 to 00:00. and Permanent 5hrs Overtime of a saturday
Started when I was 18. Virtually no life. Cost me one Marriage.

[Tazza]

Hefty price to pay :( I'd go insane with having no life outside work.

That's why we shoot isn't it? Gives us something to get us out of the house and talking **** with fellow shooters, is is that just me? :)

[dikman]

Nope, not just you, Tazza. After I'd retired (actually made redundant, on paper at least, which was fine by me) and I got interested in BP shooting my wife encouraged me to do it - more to get me out of the house, I think! She wouldn't have had any idea where it would lead, (or me, for that matter) nor does she know how many thousands of $$ it's cost. One thing led to another, of course, and Single Action shooting meant reloading (I was already casting) and the final piece of the puzzle was discovering Hi-Tek coating.
Now, if I can just learn to hit what I'm aiming at.......

[Tazza]

Some places come up with redundancy to legally push people out, someone my wife worked with was being a pain at her job, so they made her position redundant to legally get he out of the place.

Glad your wife encouraged you, thankfully i started shooting before i met mine, so the majority of my shooting gear was already bought. The amount she spends on her hobbies far out weighs what i have spent on all the gear i have now.

HA I'm still trying to learn the hitting what i'm aiming for, when you work it out, do share :)

[eljefeoz]

Signs of life, finally!:D
I've scored 20kg of lino and had the 55gr RCBS .223 mould sprue plate milled a bit to help with the boolits.All i'm waiting for is a lee push thru sizer and lets load up some Hitek coated 55gr...
Cheers

[Ausglock]

Tested a few new colours for HITEK Joe today.
There is a very nice Graphite Grey and a Purple/ Maroon

I'm sure he will post the photos.

I really like the Graphite Grey ( Gray to you heathen northerners)

[HI-TEK]

Tested a few new colours for HITEK Joe today.
There is a very nice Graphite Grey and a Purple/ Maroon

I'm sure he will post the photos.

I really like the Graphite Grey ( Gray to you heathen northerners)


Yes its true, there were several new colours that were tested. Intentions was for a Pink for Ladies, and hopefully a Blue shade.
Well, I got neither, and results were a little disappointing aside from a few pretty new colours. I have not given up as there were only mark one test samples. Now that I know what is happening, I can try to go back to the drawing board and do a follow up and try re-formulated mix.
This Hi-Tek coating is making me crazy. It just does not want to play the game. Mixtures look nothing like finished product.
Now, the site wont let me post test colours as they are too large in data. I don't know how to reduce data size of pictures.

[slide]

Why not just come up with a name for the color,whatever it is and market it. If the pink turns out not pink call it what it is. I'll betcha the guys will buy it as long as it is different. Everybody wants new colors. I have read where the human brain is stimulated by color. I wish I had one so I could find out for myself. Take it easy on yourself Joe,you have done a fantastic job. you and Ausglock make a great team. I may be stepping over the line with my statement,if so I apologize.

[HI-TEK]

Why not just come up with a name for the color,whatever it is and market it. If the pink turns out not pink call it what it is. I'll betcha the guys will buy it as long as it is different. Everybody wants new colors. I have read where the human brain is stimulated by color. I wish I had one so I could find out for myself. Take it easy on yourself Joe,you have done a fantastic job. you and Ausglock make a great team. I may be stepping over the line with my statement,if so I apologize.

Thanks Much Slide. All is OK.
I wish that someone could let me know how to post pictures on this site that would automatically be adjusted to allow posting.
I posted exactly same sized pictures previously, and all went well. Something was changed with site so now it wont accept same size pictures.
With colours, I can try and name them but I think that these experimental ones, even though they looked and performed great, was not what I was aiming at, and currently am brainstorming why these crazy results emerge. Brainstorming???? I need a brain first lol lol

[Ausglock]

Graphite Grey
https://i.imgur.com/eR8pnin.jpg

Purple/Maroon
https://i.imgur.com/Rndirhw.jpg

[dikman]

The Purple-Maroon (I'd say Maroon, based on the photo) looks nice. Slide is right, many people like having a choice (and some always want the latest thing to come out) plus it always looks impressive to customers when a product has a big range available.

The problem with this stuff is it goes so far that what I've already got will likely outlast me, so buying more colours doesn't make sense. I suppose I could cast, coat and sell them, but that seems like too much effort for my liking!

[wlkjr]

The purple I'd call Grape.

[glockfan]

purple maroon looks like cherry red;must be the lighting though.

graphite gray ....awesome color. i'm in love with old gold[smilie=1:.still have some zombie green to go through,then will try to get some old gold.i'm confident i will find a stash along my way[smilie=2::bigsmyl2::

[glockfan]

I suppose I could cast, coat and sell them, but that seems like too much effort for my liking!

i'm getting 2 mastercaster in the next few months which will end up automated down the road. while brainstorming my business plan( i'm seeking the shooting sport crowd at first ) , i realized that the only problematic part into such little start up really is the resizing system. i don't see me cranking a lever all night long to size my production ;not talking about the fact you must have different diameters available to accomodate different customers . as example, for 9mm 356 and .357 should cover most situations .in 40 .400 is the norm. resizing being the catch , the 8500$ resizing system offered by magma is the only way to go. the machine is able to resize up to 6000hrs ; i just don't see how i
could run away without it . the casting machines doesn't claim much investments.the resizing part of the business does.

as for the material, i'm presently building some ties with most shop repairs in my area ; my business plan rely on the fact the lead provided by the shops will end up in a recycling loop in the sens that my lead will all end up at the different ranges around here;then,i can collect it again and again with no ends, my lead will never be dispersed in the wild; then,i can say my business is totally GREEN,and this simple fact pleases my futur lead providers.

of course i also contacted a small foundry in the city to get a deal on their 92-6-2 if ever my start up grow some wings.

[HI-TEK]

purple maroon looks like cherry red;must be the lighting though.

graphite gray ....awesome color. i'm in love with old gold[smilie=1:.still have some zombie green to go through,then will try to get some old gold.i'm confident i will find a stash along my way[smilie=2::bigsmyl2::

glockfan,
If you like Old Gold, you would also like Gold 1035. It is brilliant, and glittery in the Sun.

[HI-TEK]

i'm getting 2 mastercaster in the next few months which will end up automated down the road. while brainstorming my business plan( i'm seeking the shooting sport crowd at first ) , i realized that the only problematic part into such little start up really is the resizing system. i don't see me cranking a lever all night long to size my production ;not talking about the fact you must have different diameters available to accomodate different customers . as example, for 9mm 356 and .357 should cover most situations .in 40 .400 is the norm. resizing being the catch , the 8500$ resizing system offered by magma is the only way to go. the machine is able to resize up to 6000hrs ; i just don't see how i
could run away without it . the casting machines doesn't claim much investments.the resizing part of the business does.

as for the material, i'm presently building some ties with most shop repairs in my area ; my business plan rely on the fact the lead provided by the shops will end up in a recycling loop in the sens that my lead will all end up at the different ranges around here;then,i can collect it again and again with no ends, my lead will never be dispersed in the wild; then,i can say my business is totally GREEN,and this simple fact pleases my futur lead providers.

of course i also contacted a small foundry in the city to get a deal on their 92-6-2 if ever my start up grow some wings.


glockfan
Sound like you are going full steam ahead and happy with where you are going. In setting up, and once people get to know what you have and can supply, it simply escalates from there. You will soon find yourself not being able to keep up, and having to increase production, and bottlenecks show up continuously.
If all goes well, no equipment failures occur, things will go smooth as Silk. Keep up the good work.

[glockfan]

glockfan
Sound like you are going full steam ahead and happy with where you are going. In setting up, and once people get to know what you have and can supply, it simply escalates from there. You will soon find yourself not being able to keep up, and having to increase production, and bottlenecks show up continuously.
If all goes well, no equipment failures occur, things will go smooth as Silk. Keep up the good work.

this post is very,very encouraging for me.i'm retired from my trucking business,left the driver seat to my son...ooh,we only have 10 to 15 trucks working (depending the time of the year). son still need some coaching,i'm backing him more as a consellor.since my retirement 5 years ago (or so) ,the first few years i was on the idle,bicycling,shooting,doin what i love all day long. things were getting boring till i discovered casting.i love doin it by hand,but i guess i'm more of a business person, after a few months casting my own , i started to think about it on a larger scale....now,here i am seriously planning on a small start up in hope people will like the quality of my work,and if so it'll translate into a growing business; while i don't want it to outgrow my goal,BUT i can see myself in need of a bullet master (11k's).

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=glockfan;4377856]

glockfan, a PM was sent

[Tazza]

Joe - Seems like your coating is acting a lot like glaze that they put on ceramics, goes in the kiln white, comes out black :)

I know a lot of people see a colour go on one shade and expect it to cure the same, just like painting a car, but it simply doesn't. Almost like you need a note to say colours are a guide only, results may differ IF customers feel this is an issue. I know it doesn't alter performance in any way.

Both new colours look great to me.

[glockfan]

Joe - Seems like your coating is acting a lot like glaze that they put on ceramics, goes in the kiln white, comes out black :)

I know a lot of people see a colour go on one shade and expect it to cure the same, just like painting a car, but it simply doesn't. Almost like you need a note to say colours are a guide only, results may differ IF customers feel this is an issue. I know it doesn't alter performance in any way.

Both new colours look great to me.

what i noticed is the color may display some variations ONLY if the cooking is not perfect. by perfect i mean,only the ''needed'''' amount of time at the right temp.it's the only part where we could say hi tek is a bit imprevisible: the color you get when everything is done. like any recipe, one must follow it by the letter to extract the best possible result.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I Pulled a couple of overbooked bullets out of the bottom of the oven tonight. Some have been in there over a year. I think I only have 2 that are the same so I might not reload them for a while till I get around to a batch those specific to a cartridge.
I can say that they don't really look much different from the standard bullets. I'll post some pics tomorrow if I get a chance.
I can say that I did leave the oven on for 4 days a couple weeks ago. So these bullets have seen at the very least 96 straight hours of cycling in the oven. Not to count the many times the oven has been on in the past 6 months to a year (cast some 44s 6 months ago but I haven't cast 311365 in at least a year)
pics to follow tomorrow. Maybe I'll load the 9 while the press it set up for that and the 311365 for blackout. I'll so a smash test on the other ones.

[HI-TEK]

Joe - Seems like your coating is acting a lot like glaze that they put on ceramics, goes in the kiln white, comes out black :)

I know a lot of people see a colour go on one shade and expect it to cure the same, just like painting a car, but it simply doesn't. Almost like you need a note to say colours are a guide only, results may differ IF customers feel this is an issue. I know it doesn't alter performance in any way.

Both new colours look great to me.

Thanks for input Tazza,
You are correct in many ways. The coatings can have variability with colours. With coating data, and coating advice, these variations are touched upon, but no direct references are made of possibility of final colours possibly of varying, and photos of finished results should be really a guide as to what may be expected..
In US, it is advertised that way, that pictures are only a guide for users.
From batch to batch process in making the polymer, can produce some variations with final polymer colour before it is used to make the coatings.
Further complications are, that depend on user, with deciding oven time and temperatures in oven, temperature control efficiency, fan forced or not fan forced, load size , mixing of base and coating materials, all can contribute to variations with finished colours.
That is why, users have been advised to get process to work with what equipment they are using, and, when results is what they want, then, repeat it exactly over and over to maximise reproducibility.
As you said, these colour variations, do not affect performance results being sought.
The other area of colour changes that are possible, is the darkening of the stored pre-mixed colours which are the ready to use material.
It has been advised many times, that mixtures will darken with storage, may thicken also with solvent loss, but will perform well when applied at correct dilutions and applications. However, the final colours will not end up exactly the same as when product was first made up.

With new experimental colours, there was an attempt to make Pink, and also a Grey coloured coting. It was posted, to show, that what the stuff looked like when mixed ready for use, did not end up where we wanted after cooking. You can see mixture in bottles, and see results of finished projectiles.

It needs to be pointed out, that with the Hi-Tek coatings we are not dealing with a house paint resin, varnishes or Lacquers or sheet metal paint resins where there is much less possibility of variations due to different systems being used.

Hope this clarified things a little.

[Avenger442]

Joe
That lot of completely dried out coating went into to acetone today. Chunks were max 3/4" square. Some were about 3/8" thick. That's the big stuff. It ranged all the way down to dust.


221230
221231

[Avenger442]

Also have coated, one coat, some 308s to try the coating with only one coat in my rifle.

This is the one coat after coating compared to un-coated
221239


This is the one coat after bake compared to un-coated
221240

Plan is to load to between 2600 and 2700 fps to see if same performance and no leading.

But range test will have to wait till next month.

[Tazza]

Your links didn't work for the rifle bullets :(

Looking forward to seeing how it goes with the dried out stuff.

The 308s, are they cast lead or copper?

[Avenger442]

Your links didn't work for the rifle bullets :(

Looking forward to seeing how it goes with the dried out stuff.

The 308s, are they cast lead or copper?

Yeah, I've had issues lately with photos. Reloaded.

These are lead, no copper added, at about 13 BHN and gas checked after coat. This is the alloy and the load that have given me a typical 1 1/2" group at 100 yards in the past.

I'm also going to try some with bullet almost against the lands and slightly reduced load. Competition guys have informed me that with my bolt gun and loading one round at a time I might be able to improve groups with the bullet against the lands. Thing is they are using jacketed bullets and not coated lead. Since this may increase the stress on the lead, know it will increase the pressure, I may have to increase the BHN to be able to use cast this way. I think that means I'm going back to developing round again. In the past I have found that changing the BHN will change grouping. My 17 BHN doesn't group near as well as the 13 BHN with this load.

[Tazza]

Interesting, looking forward to seeing how they go with gas checks and one coat of Hi-Tek.

[Cue]

Like Christmas in May :D

Kryptonite Green and Brick Red.

221248

[Ausglock]

Like Christmas in May :D

Kryptonite Green and Brick Red.

221248

Nice.

My Christmas mix.
Kryptonite green and Candy Apple Red.
https://i.imgur.com/Kcleom3.jpg

[dansedgli]

221249

Mine. Lowly zombie green and black cherry.

[Ausglock]

nice.

[HI-TEK]

Joe
That lot of completely dried out coating went into to acetone today. Chunks were max 3/4" square. Some were about 3/8" thick. That's the big stuff. It ranged all the way down to dust.


221230
221231

It will be interesting how it turns out. If it mixes in, can you try and coat with it?
In theory, despite drying out, and no heat being applied, the stuff should work, but who knows. Interesting experiment.

[Avenger442]

Joe
It wouldn't mean much unless it could be made to perform. So that is the plan. I already know that adding acetone to colors that have sat for several months and using them works just fine, except for color. But those are not this completely dried out coating. This stuff was about like hard candy consistence when I broke it up and put it in the bottle. We used to caramelize molasses in an iron skillet to make brittle when I was a kid. When it cooled it was about the same brittleness as this dried out coating. To be honest, I'll be surprised if it redissolved much less able to be used for coating. We will see.

[HI-TEK]

Joe
It wouldn't mean much unless it could be made to perform. So that is the plan. I already know that adding acetone to colors that have sat for several months and using them works just fine, except for color. But those are not this completely dried out coating. This stuff was about like hard candy consistence when I broke it up and put it in the bottle. We used to caramelize molasses in an iron skillet to make brittle when I was a kid. When it cooled it was about the same brittleness as this dried out coating. To be honest, I'll be surprised if it redissolved much less able to be used for coating. We will see.

Avenger442,
This is strange stuff. I have had some that had dried previously, and it dissolves, but slower than if it powdered. It has to do with surface area. More surface are faster solubility. So finer the powder it will dissolve quicker compared to lumps.
As I have said, if it was not heated or exposed to higher ambient temperatures, it should dissolve. What it will look like ……..?????
What colour was it before it dried?

[Avenger442]

I believe it was the first blue I tried a little over a year ago. It was during the time you began trying to produce Orange and Blue colors. Can't remember the exact name. Failed to mark the original bottle. Back then only had a couple of colors. Will look at unmixed later to see if I can tell. What I might be able to do is find some of the bullets coated with the original mix and compare them to this redissolved mix after coating. Still tied up so time is limited.

[lazs]

I don't use Hi-Tek for the colors. I admit they can be fun but really I don't like the reds as they can have a lipstick look. In any case.. I have taken to cooking longer and water quenching so they all (all colors) are much darker than would be normal? I also don't mind mixing colors when a batch gets low.. I just add whatever color and more acetone. So long as they work I am good with it. I do like the krptonite green tho even when it comes out darker. That cobalt color looks pretty good to me also and would probly come out near black the way I cook.

lazs

[TonyN]

Well guys I'm back... This time I have bought a house convection oven and I have been having good success. I have shot some with this coating and it's working great. I'm doing 400F at 13 min. I'm going to try lower temps at like 385 like Iv seen and lowering the time to try and get the right color. Mine are a little darker as I'm sure I'm over baking some. But I just got this working properly. Ausiglock didn't you say you are baking for 7 min I'm your large oven? Do you guys with the large oven bake you coating on the bottom of middle of the oven? I'm liking the bronze 502 black cherry the best. I have 5 colors in all and will for sure enjoy them all. I'll more then likely slow down on PC as you all know I have been trying this for EVER...
Also I'm wondering at around 4 min of baking I have a good amount of smoke coming out of the oven when I open the door. I'm sure this is normal . is there usually a set time as to when that is done to know about how much longer you stop baking? I want the color to be exact as I want my Kryptonite green to be the bright green and not the darker green I'm getting. But again it's been in solution for a year or so

[Avenger442]

Welcome back TonyN.

I don't have any experience with the big ovens. So I can't help you with the questions on that.

However, if I read your last paragraph right, if the coating has been in solution for a year it's probably going to turn out dark because it is old. The solution to that is to mix a fresh batch. I have several batches mixed ranging from 4-6 months old. They all cook darker than original color. Good news is it doesn't hurt performance as far as I can tell.

Glad your having success with the important part, shooting with the coating.

[Ausglock]

I now do 2 trays of 2.5KG at once, using the bottom and centre shelves. Bake time is still 200Deg C but I now do 7 1/2 minutes.
This still gives great colour and Zero failures.

Yes. There is considerable Smoke at the 4 minute mark when I shake the trays and turn them 90Deg.

[Michael J. Spangler]

221543221544

Ok pretty sure all of these were in the bottom of the oven when I left it on for 4-5 days straight a few weeks ago.

My guess is the 311365 has been in there close to a year.
The coating scrapes off rather easily but doesn’t flake too much. My guess is they would shoot just fine.
It won’t be much of a test because there is only one of each but I could load and fire them to see.

[TonyN]

Whats the softest BHN you believe will work with Hi-Tek? My Projectials are between 14.5 BHN to 17 BHN. What's the sofest BHN with no leading?

[Ausglock]

Whats the softest BHN you believe will work with Hi-Tek? My Projectials are between 14.5 BHN to 17 BHN. What's the sofest BHN with no leading?

Success with soft BHN depends on the rounds the bullet are to be loaded in.
I have had no issues with 2 coats on 10BHN for use in 45ACP at normal velocities around the 800 to 900 fps, and 38 Special (at low velocity) target loads.

But that was for my own personal use.

Everything I make for others is from 2,6,92 alloy.

[TonyN]

Sorry I meant to say 9mm.

[flybyjohn]

Maybe totally off topic here but it is a Hitek thread, right? I was wondering if hitek coating will stick to aluminum.

Here is the situation. I have a Subaru engine that had one of the pistons skirts slightly scuffed. All the other pistons look good with very little wear. The piston skirts came coated with some black stuff from the factory for better friction resistance. If Hitek sticks to aluminum then I might try to put a very light coat on my scuffed piston skirt to see if it works in the engine. It will be exposed to oil, but I thought that once it is baked it should be oil proof, and it also seems to exceed the temperature of melted lead. I am not sure how hot a piston skirt gets, but I don't think it would be above 600 deg F. What do the Hitek gurus think?

Oh and for you fellows down under, I am talking about Aluminium pistons.

[Tazza]

Interesting idea. Personally i'd just throw a new set of pistons at it I know when i re-built my subaru engine, i'm not wanting to do that again any time soon if it was to not work as you hoped it would.

Looking forward to seeing what Joe has to say about it sticking to aluminium.

[Ausglock]

No idea...

[smlekid]

Maybe totally off topic here but it is a Hitek thread, right? I was wondering if hitek coating will stick to aluminum.

Here is the situation. I have a Subaru engine that had one of the pistons skirts slightly scuffed. All the other pistons look good with very little wear. The piston skirts came coated with some black stuff from the factory for better friction resistance. If Hitek sticks to aluminum then I might try to put a very light coat on my scuffed piston skirt to see if it works in the engine. It will be exposed to oil, but I thought that once it is baked it should be oil proof, and it also seems to exceed the temperature of melted lead. I am not sure how hot a piston skirt gets, but I don't think it would be above 600 deg F. What do the Hitek gurus think?

Oh and for you fellows down under, I am talking about Aluminium pistons.

The problem will be the piston skirt has most likely collapsed so your piston clearance will be to loose
the piston coating is likely a Teflon coating

[dikman]

How would you apply the coating? Tumbling a piston probably wouldn't work too well neither, I suspect, would adding it to a batch of boolits.

[Tazza]

If it was me, i'd spray it with something like an air brush, very light coasts and cook between.

[Grmps]

I saw this at a local store "Wholesale Outlet", There might be one near you?????

https://i.imgur.com/SwoRqWi.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8j5xhP4.jpg

[dikman]

Tazza, I seem to recall that Joe said it can't be sprayed? The solvent used is pretty volatile and I reckon it would evaporate awfully quick with compressed air blowing it out. Plus it would probably clog the airbrush pretty quick, so you'd want to use one of the non-metallic types.

One day, when I've got nothing else to do I might have to try it.

[Tazza]

That is possible, i wonder if another solvent could be used to slow it down a little like you can add to other paints, over here we call then retarding thinners, something that evaporates slower.

[flybyjohn]

The piston still measures out within tolerance, but this one piston must have got a little hot or dry and just left a few vertical lines on the skirt. I have some pistons coming but so far out of a couple sets of aftermarket pistons, they are all on the small side for spec. Subaru designated their bores either A or B with A or B pistons to go in them to make the tolerances tighter. Since aftermarket pistons only come in standard or bored over, the standard pistons all have to be on the small side to insure that someone doesn't stick the larger piston in the small bore and seize it up. the smaller piston will go into the larger bore but you just get a bit of piston slap that doesn't need to be there.

I would find a way to apply it but before I figure that out, I just wanted to make sure that it was even a option. Well, better start talking about bullets again I guess.

[Grmps]

That is possible, i wonder if another solvent could be used to slow it down a little like you can add to other paints, over here we call then retarding thinners, something that evaporates slower.

You can add denatured alcohol or MEK, it's written on the instructions :)

[dikman]

A higher percentage of DA and reduce the acetone accordingly maybe? Might work, I'd keep away from MEK myself though, it's nasty stuff and I wouldn't really want to be spraying it around unless you've got a proper spray booth. While it's not really a practical way of coating boolits (hard to beat tumbling, I reckon) it might open up some interesting other uses for Hi-Tek. Have to give it some thought.

[HI-TEK]

Maybe totally off topic here but it is a Hitek thread, right? I was wondering if hitek coating will stick to aluminum.

Here is the situation. I have a Subaru engine that had one of the pistons skirts slightly scuffed. All the other pistons look good with very little wear. The piston skirts came coated with some black stuff from the factory for better friction resistance. If Hitek sticks to aluminum then I might try to put a very light coat on my scuffed piston skirt to see if it works in the engine. It will be exposed to oil, but I thought that once it is baked it should be oil proof, and it also seems to exceed the temperature of melted lead. I am not sure how hot a piston skirt gets, but I don't think it would be above 600 deg F. What do the Hitek gurus think?

Oh and for you fellows down under, I am talking about Aluminium pistons.

Hello flybyjohn,
Interesting idea. However, I hate to throw a bucket of water over your idea, but unfortunately it wont work with Hi-Tek.
The problem is, that Aluminium and its alloys will chemically react with the coating, and therefore it will simply peel off.
I suspect, that what ever coating is on the piston from manufacturer it could be a fused PTFE polymer, that may include Moly that is captured in the coating.
I know that some PTFE polymers, can be fused to apply to metals at about 320-350C as continuous films for metal lubrication and metal separation.
Because the PTFE is so inert, that is why it seems to work as fuse bonded lubricant.
Sorry about bad news.

[flybyjohn]

Thanks for the info Joe. That saved me a ton of experimenting.

Just wanted to let you know that I tried a few new to me colors on my bullets and really like the kriptonite green in the sunlight. Those and the Black cherry are so smooth and slippery compared to the Red Copper I used the first time around.

[Avenger442]

Another article on Hi Tek bullets June edition Handloader. I'm jealous this guy has a Ransom rest.
All pistol bullets this time. Another article promised later on rifle bullets.

[HI-TEK]

Another article on Hi Tek bullets June edition Handloader. I'm jealous this guy has a Ransom rest.
All pistol bullets this time. Another article promised later on rifle bullets.

Avenger442;
I wonder how I can get a copy of these magazines, or reports. Do you think that company publishing it will take a subscription from me to post magazines?
I don't know how this works in US.

[Ausglock]

https://www.magzter.com/US/Wolfe_Publishing/Handloader/Men's_Interest/274709

[HI-TEK]

https://www.magzter.com/US/Wolfe_Publishing/Handloader/Men's_Interest/274709

Thanks Ausglock.
I managed to read one page of the Hi-Tek article in the magazine, but would not allow me to read any other pages.
Interesting reading.
I suppose, I may have to purchase a copy, and have it sent to me.

[Elkins45]

Avenger442;
I wonder how I can get a copy of these magazines, or reports. Do you think that company publishing it will take a subscription from me to post magazines?
I don't know how this works in US.

I know that Handloader allows you to download the magazine in PDF format if you are a subscriber.

[HI-TEK]

I know that Handloader allows you to download the magazine in PDF format if you are a subscriber.

Thanks Elkins45, Sent you a PM.

[Avenger442]

Nothing like free advertising. Right Joe?

If you have a problem with the PDF let me know and I will snag you a copy and mail it to you.

[HI-TEK]

Nothing like free advertising. Right Joe?

If you have a problem with the PDF let me know and I will snag you a copy and mail it to you.

Thanks much Avenger442,
Members had sent me a copy of the pages related to the tests done with Hi-Tek coatings.
It is much appreciated.
Free advertising is great, but am more interested in results with various calibres and accuracy.
It seems that there is another happy customer using Hi-Tek coated casts.
I am eagerly looking forward to report with rifle ammo using Hi-Tek coated casts.
It will be interesting reading.
I must register with magazine producer so I can get editions as and when they are printed.
Thanks all for the input.

[HI-TEK]

Well I am really happy. I now am a subscriber to the magazine, Handloader for a 12 month period.
Great articles. Thanks all for the assistance. Much appreciated.

[glockfan]

anyone has been through this article on hitek VS lubed boolits?

sorry if it's been posted, i just fell on it and found it extremely interesting except when they call hi tek ''polymer'' haha.

in brief,hi tek gets you a tad slower speeds and on par accuracy,if not better accuracy compared to lubed .

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/3/7/coated-bullets-the-future-of-lead-bullets-for-handloaders/

[Gremlin460]

<-------- Slides silentlly into the room and hope no-one notices.

[Tazza]

I SEE YOU :)

Welcome to the conversation, you have been spoken about, only good things i might add.

[Ausglock]

Welcome back, Grem.
I heard you won the lottery and were travelling around the world.
What happened??? Ya run out of money??? lol

[Gremlin460]

Ran out of women.

[Gremlin460]

**** it! dont ruin my bad rep, its taken years to get that.

[Tazza]

hehehe nice.

When people sign on to my steel challenge i feel i must have a bad rep too. We run two matches at once and switch over at half time. People ask which sheet to go on, i just say if you want to shoot with one person or not with another, choose that way. Some ask what side i'm running, then they choose the other....... Should i be offended? They do it with a big grin though, so i don't yet have to cry myself to sleep.

[Gremlin460]

Forgive me Hi-tek for I have sinned..
I have not cast for over 12 months
I also have not deprimed any brass for over 12 months.

The reason for this, I shamelessly admit is because I have Soooooooo much brass I havent needed too, and last year I went
ape-shyt and cast/coated over 14 months supply. Ha!

In saying that over the last 3 days I have deprimed 8000 cases and 1/3rd have been wet tumbled.
I must say de-priming brass has now become the most tedious procces of reloading. It used to be sizing that was the holder of that title.
Some time in the next week or so I will drag out the casting pot and my faithfull laddle and start casting again.
I still have a NIB CBE mold that I am still toying with sending back to CBE and having the lube grooves removed before I use it.

The reason for this post is to ask, how many guys now are casting grooveless compared to grooved?

[glockfan]

The reason for this post is to ask, how many guys now are casting grooveless compared to grooved?

i'm quite new to casting, so bought 4 molds to start with ; none has grooves lol.

[Tazza]

I still cast with grooves as people seem to be old school and think they are needed. I think for the 125 con rn i cast, the extra bearing surface of a no lube groove projectile would be better. Some guns will not stabilize them, but the round nose they do as there is more bearing surface, even with a lube groove.

Some of the people i sell to use them for western action, so they need the lube grooves for crimping.

Personally i'd rather not have lube grooves as they will fall from the mould easier.

I have a worn out 125con rn mould i'd like to tinker with and make a custom one with no lube grooves, see if i ever get to it.

[dikman]

A chap in my club makes molds (among other things), when another member asked him to make a .38 mold without lube grooves I got one too - 4-gang, RNFP, brass with crimp groove only.

[Ausglock]

I run both. But mainly grooveless.

[Grmps]

Both shoot about the same, BUT, it's much easier to re-sell a mold with lube groves.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Gremlin460;4394269]Forgive me Hi-tek for I have sinned..
I have not cast for over 12 months
I also have not deprimed any brass for over 12 months.


WHAT???????? no casting for 12 months, you should be whipped with Cat and Nine tails. That is unforgiveable. Now repent and start casting, it will repair your soul....lol

[cityofthesouth]

Been clicking through all the pages I have missed since I last visited and saw some talk about using old, dried up coating. I do this every time I get ready to coat. I tumble in a Tupperware type container and mix my coating in a clear ketchup/mustard looking bottle. Both are usually coated with dried out mix, and a gummy glob at the bottom of my bottle. I rinse all the flaky stuff off the inside of my tumble container with acetone and dump that into my bottle, then slosh that around until the glob at the bottom dissolves, add new mix to it and proceed to coating. No problems, no waste. I don't even worry about the ratio anymore. As long as it's not too heavy on the powder it's good to go. I figure that out on the fist coating. If it gases off too quickly, just add more acetone. I like it watery, so I rarely have this issue.

Other random observations:

After casting and coating 5 figures worth of bullets since I started doing it I only just got to shoot them over a chrono for the first time recently. I found out my 125gr 9mm loads are doing 1140 out of my 4.5" CZ P09 barrel. Obviously, I will be backing off the gas because all I gotta do is make 125 power factor. So the 1140 load has been 3.6gr of TiteGroup with a 1.08 OAL and 125gr bullet. More chrono testing this weekend.

That leads me to my next point. The Lee 125gr mold without lube grooves just isn't correctly made in my opinion for coating purposes (many have realized this of course already). It's true that I may get a thicker coat than other people, or even thicker than necessary (keeping in mind that I still size .356 but this is in reference to adding thickness to the ogive). But it falls into the fiddly category when I have to keep what is an imprecise process within a couple thousandths tolerances. I have yet to find a single 9mm barrel that will take these bullets loaded longer than 1.08 and it is very common for that to be too long. Is it really an issue? No. I am changing my load to 1.065 OAL at 3.2gr of TiteGroup in order to get these bullets to fit in everything. I think the only real concern (other than pressure) is feeding. I believe 3.2gr will get me closer to my 125 power factor goal (somewhere around 1050 FPS) so the pressure isn't an issue and so far they appear to feed fine and shoot well. I will certainly be working up some powder puff loads for my 10.5" 9mm carbine barrel.

Also noticed some talk about the Lee 9mm Factory Crimp die. I gotta say, I have found it to be 100% pointless. By simply screwing the seating die into the correct depth (which I then mark so that I can just throw the die in and go) I am able to consistently achieve .378-.379 case mouth diameter. I found that I could get rounds to stick in some barrels by leaving the case mouths ~.381. I then use a previously loaded round to set the fine adjustment, measure the first few rounds and tweak as necessary. In other words, increase, decrease the depth of the die itself to put the case in spec, then use the fine adjust for bullet depth (a solid piece of advice from another member here). This is why I have mostly abandoned 358 bullets - you have to get your case mouth in spec, which is going to squish the bullet at least some ... like the 2 thousandths I was trying to achieve by sizing them 2 thousandths larger in the first place.

Also, I now have a polygonal barrel to test with. Initial testing looks good. 1.08 OAL loads won't plunk which is what lead to the 1.065 load.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1787/42868269371_caf42f0bac_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/28j85YB)TanfoglioStockIII_4 (https://flic.kr/p/28j85YB) by city_ofthe_south (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101646264@N03/), on Flickr

Also wanted to add that my chrono tests revealed a 9 FPS standard deviation using all cheapo Lee equipment. That seems pretty good to me.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=cityofthesouth;4395296]Been clicking through all the pages I have missed since I last visited and saw some talk about using old, dried up coating. I do this every time I get ready to coat. I tumble in a Tupperware type container and mix my coating in a clear ketchup/mustard looking bottle. Both are usually coated with dried out mix, and a gummy glob at the bottom of my bottle. I rinse all the flaky stuff off the inside of my tumble container with acetone and dump that into my bottle, then slosh that around until the glob at the bottom dissolves, add new mix to it and proceed to coating. No problems, no waste. I don't even worry about the ratio anymore. As long as it's not too heavy on the powder it's good to go. I figure that out on the fist coating. If it gases off too quickly, just add more acetone. I like it watery, so I rarely have this issue.


Thanks for your input.Looks like you optimised your coating usage well.

You have confirmed, that the coating can be re-used even if it is dried up after solvent evaporates.
You also confirmed that making mixes that can be a little more dilute than normal works just fine and dries quick, and less problems with baking as first coat dries easily if not too thickly applied.
Many simply add solvent to coating container when there is a build up of coating, and re-dissolve dry residues, and use this as first coat.
The stuff simply can be recycled, but only if it has not been heat set.

[cityofthesouth]

[QUOTE=cityofthesouth;4395296]Been clicking through all the pages I have missed since I last visited and saw some talk about using old, dried up coating. I do this every time I get ready to coat. I tumble in a Tupperware type container and mix my coating in a clear ketchup/mustard looking bottle. Both are usually coated with dried out mix, and a gummy glob at the bottom of my bottle. I rinse all the flaky stuff off the inside of my tumble container with acetone and dump that into my bottle, then slosh that around until the glob at the bottom dissolves, add new mix to it and proceed to coating. No problems, no waste. I don't even worry about the ratio anymore. As long as it's not too heavy on the powder it's good to go. I figure that out on the fist coating. If it gases off too quickly, just add more acetone. I like it watery, so I rarely have this issue.


Thanks for your input.Looks like you optimised your coating usage well.

You have confirmed, that the coating can be re-used even if it is dried up after solvent evaporates.
You also confirmed that making mixes that can be a little more dilute than normal works just fine and dries quick, and less problems with baking as first coat dries easily if not too thickly applied.
Many simply add solvent to coating container when there is a build up of coating, and re-dissolve dry residues, and use this as first coat.
The stuff simply can be recycled, but only if it has not been heat set.

Yep for sure. It took me a few coating sessions to realize this. What really put me on to it is that over many sessions my Tupperware gets a heavy build up of coating in the corners where I dump the bullets out onto my trays. This coating would flake off occasionally and cause lumps or globs on my bullets. While cleaning it off I realized it just turns back into mix, so I tried it, no issues at all and I've been doing that ever since. I have also learned that lumps and imperfections on 9mm pistol bullets really has very little negative effect down range. Sure, they aren't bullseye bullets but they will still make 2-3 inch groups at 20 yards and that's plenty good enough for me.

Although, this is a 20 yard, 5 shot group from my 9mm AR with my bullets.https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1762/29117808498_9d4801e426_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Ln3o21)AR9_CastCoatedTG (https://flic.kr/p/Ln3o21) by city_ofthe_south (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101646264@N03/), on Flickr

I do like a thin mix. I like having the handful of extra seconds to tumble and I think it comes out smoother. I am also water quenching on the 3rd coat, mainly because I recall some reports that you get some hardness back and it makes me feel good. I have no factual data on the subject though, other than the coating doesn't seem to mind.

This chrono I got to work is one from a friend that apparently never worked right. I thought I had it figured out but it wouldn't read a single shot yesterday. But the 3.2gr TiteGroup at 1.065 OAL shot fine from all my guns, for whatever that's worth. If any of you know the trick to making the old CED Millennium (M1?) chrono actually work correctly, let me know. I get the impression they were complete garbage but if I can make it work that's great. I cleaned the sensor and lenses and shot it under a pop-up canopy, which worked the first time, but it did nothing the second time. I set it up in an identical way, same location, same hot sunny day, same canopy, same everything.

[ioon44]

"I cleaned the sensor and lenses and shot it under a pop-up canopy, which worked the first time, but it did nothing the second time. I set it up in an identical way, same location, same hot sunny day, same canopy, same everything."

That is why I bought a LabRadar chrono.

[Graakall]

222678

Coated 50 kilograms 230 grainers in about 2 hours.
7,5 + kgs on each tray.
2. Time coating and sucsess all the way.

Could probably reduce baketime as the thermostat switched off at the 3 minute mark every tray.

Thanks for all the knowhow guys.
G

[Avenger442]

That is why I bought a LabRadar chrono.

I never owned a chrono before, with a little help and an "on sale", I bought my Lab Radar. They are $50 off and cheaper than when I bought mine now at Midsouth Shooters. Recommend the base sold separate unless you have a tripod.

I had looked at them many times. But I never owned one because I had seen others use them and asked myself the question "How much trouble and time do I want to spend at the range finding out the speed of my bullet?". They just seemed to waist too much time, were just too much trouble to use and slowed down everyone else using the range. With the Lab Radar on the bench next to my gun it, while still some effort, is worth the time messing with it. It also will give me speeds at five different distance out to 100 yards with the .308. And do any calculation I want.

[Ausglock]

222678

Coated 50 kilograms 230 grainers in about 2 hours.
7,5 + kgs on each tray.
2. Time coating and sucsess all the way.

Could probably reduce baketime as the thermostat switched off at the 3 minute mark every tray.

Thanks for all the knowhow guys.
G

Nice.
Those bullets look like the ones I make using the 230gn Hardline hand mold.
Shame Hardline no longer exist. They made fantastic molds.

[Graakall]

Nice.
Those bullets look like the ones I make using the 230gn Hardline hand mold.
Shame Hardline no longer exist. They made fantastic molds.

Hardline yes.
Very nice but heavy.
Of ebay.
Do not need to size them.

Just bringing them to Elvira. (My loadmaster.) and go run & gun ipsc.

[glockfan]

hey guys!!

i'd like to recap a little ,from the experiences done here by some regulars of this thread.

specifically the question about the FIRST COAT.

do you all agree that the first coat should be diluted with acetone a tad more ?

i'm done with different experiences done in small batch,following the recipe religiously ,and sometimes my first coat doen't bond like it should probably because too thick ,and in the light of what your results are, i'm tempted by diluting the mix some more .

tomorrow i will go through out 50lbs of 9mm boolits,and i know that the first coat is crucial . if the 1st coat bond really well,then the 2nd is a breeze and we can apply a thicker coat.

the only thing i'm suspecting is, if i go thin on the 1st coat, i might have to add a 3rd one,which i don't find exciting at all.

i like the results obtained by 2 thick coats ; all pores are filled,and the boolit with 2 well bonded thick coats is a good insurance against leading . i'm just wondering if 1 thin and 1 thick coat will do the job, i react that,perhaps the coverage might be too thin?

is there a consensus on this question ?

[Tazza]

I'm interested in knowing too.

I need to get time to do some casting and i'll get my order into Joe for some and give it a go. Got a few family issues, so not sure when i'll get back into replenishing my stocks but then i'm going to really get into testing it to see if it will work for me as i feel it should.

[HI-TEK]

hey guys!!

i'd like to recap a little ,from the experiences done here by some regulars of this thread.

specifically the question about the FIRST COAT.

do you all agree that the first coat should be diluted with acetone a tad more ? It would not hurt at all if you applied a more diluted first coat. This allows quicker drying and less adhesion failures. Adhesion failure with first coat is by applying thick first coat, which forms a skin, and will not dry, especially in cool humid conditions. If you use standard coating mix, after applying it at normal rates, it is better to warm air dry at about 45-50C for half an hour or more. This will ensure that trapped absorbed moisture is dried from this firs coat. Then test bake only a few, cool and test as normal. If it fails adhesion, keep on drying bulk lot. Then at another 15 minutes or more, test bake a few more, and repeat this until you get a pass. Only then bake the bulk.

i'm done with different experiences done in small batch,following the recipe religiously ,and sometimes my first coat doen't bond like it should probably because too thick ,and in the light of what your results are, i'm tempted by diluting the mix some more .Dilution works. Until first coat is thoroughly dry, irrespective on applied thickness, it will fail adhesion test

tomorrow i will go through out 50lbs of 9mm boolits,and i know that the first coat is crucial . if the 1st coat bond really well,then the 2nd is a breeze and we can apply a thicker coat.That is correct. Don't worry about using standard coating mix for first coat. Simply warm air dry thoroughly before baking. All should be well afterwards

the only thing i'm suspecting is, if i go thin on the 1st coat, i might have to add a 3rd one,which i don't find exciting at all. Not necessarily. First coat is primer adhesion stage. Second coat will bond to first well bonded coating. That should be enough

i like the results obtained by 2 thick coats ; all pores are filled,and the boolit with 2 well bonded thick coats is a good insurance against leading . i'm just wondering if 1 thin and 1 thick coat will do the job, i react that,perhaps the coverage might be too thin?These coatings do not need thick applications, They normally apply about 1.5 to 2 thou onto alloys with two coats. That is plenty.

is there a consensus on this question ?


Glockfan, my replies will be in Red at each points you raised.
Hope I can answer all your concerns.
Thorough drying first coat is essential, irrespective of how much coating is applied.

[ioon44]

When I place my coated bullets out side in full sunshine the temperature of the bullets will reach 60 to 65 deg C in 30 min, I have never had a first coating failure using the standard 20/100 mix at these drying temperature's.

[Avenger442]

I realize that below may not directly apply to Glockfan's question on first thin coat. By the way, I have started using thin coats for all three of mine. But I close tumble.

I have single coated about 5 pounds of .308s in the hope that I could test Joe's comment a while back that a single coat well applied should work. (Note: Joe I'm not questioning your honesty here. But you know how I like a good question that I have personally tested so I can say "yeah it works".) Anyway, I have been trying to get them loaded up and to the range but it seems everything keeps getting in the way. If it's not family and other business it's the weather. And of course there was that eight day trip (I believe in Australia and England you call it Holiday) to Gulf Shores. Love the white sand beach there.

Plan to shoot about 30 rounds. That should be enough to answer the question. And I will report back one way or the other. If a well applied first coat will work in .308 at 2600 fps then the second coat is just insurance against possible error or just to beautify the bullet. I normally do three coats because when I first tried Hi Tek I wanted to do a jacket. And Joe told me over and over that "It's a lube!". I eventually got over the jacket thing but still kept using three coats. A single coat would really cut coating effort and make the coating even more economical. Even if a single coat doesn't work in rifle it may still work in pistol.

Well I said I would be back at it by the middle of June and we are almost at the end of June. Things are loosening up a bit. Now if the weather will just cooperate.

[dikman]

Avenger, you could always compromise and just use two coats.;-)

[Avenger442]

Avenger, you could always compromise and just use two coats.;-)

Your right and that may be where I go after I check to see if a single coat will work. But it would be great to know that I could coat once and then shoot. We will see.

[dansedgli]

I'll give it a go too. Less effort is my favourite thing.

I've got a master caster due to be delivered next week. No more hand mold casting for me. :D

Hopefully I can get a more consistent bullet. The plan is to go hard at it while my wife is away for a week with our kid and not cast again or buy bullets until 2020. :wink:

[Ausglock]

Dan... the more you make, the more you shoot.

I ran 300 through the STI TAC 5 on sunday, Just buggerizing around on the plate racks. And giving new members a few mags each to get them hooked. Gotta keep the sales up.. lol

[cityofthesouth]

hey guys!!

i'd like to recap a little ,from the experiences done here by some regulars of this thread.

specifically the question about the FIRST COAT.

do you all agree that the first coat should be diluted with acetone a tad more ?

i'm done with different experiences done in small batch,following the recipe religiously ,and sometimes my first coat doen't bond like it should probably because too thick ,and in the light of what your results are, i'm tempted by diluting the mix some more .

tomorrow i will go through out 50lbs of 9mm boolits,and i know that the first coat is crucial . if the 1st coat bond really well,then the 2nd is a breeze and we can apply a thicker coat.

the only thing i'm suspecting is, if i go thin on the 1st coat, i might have to add a 3rd one,which i don't find exciting at all.

i like the results obtained by 2 thick coats ; all pores are filled,and the boolit with 2 well bonded thick coats is a good insurance against leading . i'm just wondering if 1 thin and 1 thick coat will do the job, i react that,perhaps the coverage might be too thin?

is there a consensus on this question ?


I do the whole thing diluted compared to the recipe. My opinion - based on somewhere between 10K and 15K bullets without ever experiencing any coating failure, including recovery of many fired projectiles - is that the ratio is extremely forgiving. How you get the first coat, and every other coat right, is hitting the correct temp. I use a laser thermometer. The coating turns color and smokes, you did it right. Do not tumble hot bullets (I put them in front of a fan the instant they come out of the oven), try to "dry" the coating a little before you toss them in the oven (I use a heat gun for maybe 30 seconds because there is plenty of time while another tray is in the oven). Check your temps multiple times during the 10 minute cycle. If you don't hit them temp, the coating will come off during the next tumble. No big deal, just do it again. Temperature is the name of the game. Thin, smooth coats, IMO are the result of thin diluted solution rolled out just seconds before tacky. When you hear them begin to tack and stick, it will still work, but it won't be as smooth as if you roll them out a few seconds before that moment. I do 3 coats but honestly, I'm learning to care less about the looks and seriously considering 2 coats.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4375/36384513412_84f1d74c89_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Xrb9dL)BlackCherry_HiTek (https://flic.kr/p/Xrb9dL) by city_ofthe_south (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101646264@N03/), on Flickr

I've witnessed first hand, commercially cast bullets with Hi Tek coating that was flaking off as the shooter was filling magazines. That's a temperature problem. As many guys here have confirmed, you have a minimum temp to hit, but not really a maximum other than the lead melting. I'm sure there are temps that are too high, but the point is, if your bullets reach 400+ degrees and do a little extra smoking, the coating will be 100% good to go.

[Tazza]

Dan... the more you make, the more you shoot.

I ran 300 through the STI TAC 5 on sunday, Just buggerizing around on the plate racks. And giving new members a few mags each to get them hooked. Gotta keep the sales up.. lol

Trevor, I need to come shoot with you, i can come in, shoot your ammo and walk off :)

I have to agree, the more you cast, the more you shoot. Buying factory you are always watching costs, when you cast, you don't care as much, or at least i don't :)

[glockfan]

I do the whole thing diluted compared to the recipe. My opinion - based on somewhere between 10K and 15K bullets without ever experiencing any coating failure, including recovery of many fired projectiles - is that the ratio is extremely forgiving. How you get the first coat, and every other coat right, is hitting the correct temp. I use a laser thermometer. The coating turns color and smokes, you did it right. Do not tumble hot bullets (I put them in front of a fan the instant they come out of the oven), try to "dry" the coating a little before you toss them in the oven (I use a heat gun for maybe 30 seconds because there is plenty of time while another tray is in the oven). Check your temps multiple times during the 10 minute cycle. If you don't hit them temp, the coating will come off during the next tumble. No big deal, just do it again. Temperature is the name of the game. Thin, smooth coats, IMO are the result of thin diluted solution rolled out just seconds before tacky. When you hear them begin to tack and stick, it will still work, but it won't be as smooth as if you roll them out a few seconds before that moment. I do 3 coats but honestly, I'm learning to care less about the looks and seriously considering 2 coats.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4375/36384513412_84f1d74c89_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Xrb9dL)BlackCherry_HiTek (https://flic.kr/p/Xrb9dL) by city_ofthe_south (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101646264@N03/), on Flickr

I've witnessed first hand, commercially cast bullets with Hi Tek coating that was flaking off as the shooter was filling magazines. That's a temperature problem. As many guys here have confirmed, you have a minimum temp to hit, but not really a maximum other than the lead melting. I'm sure there are temps that are too high, but the point is, if your bullets reach 400+ degrees and do a little extra smoking, the coating will be 100% good to go.

i was exactly wondering this.

recipe say 20 grams of powder for 100 ML of acetone. does the defenition of ''diluted''' would mean more like 20 grams of powder for lets say 105 ml of acetone? ; is this would be diluted enough or would it be preferable to add more acetone for what we now call a ''thin coat'''??

also, i prefer having a fresh mix,so if i do 10 grams for 50ml acetone(well,probably more like 52ml acetone for a ''thin coat''' ) , does this still respect the ratio acetone-powder ?

[glockfan]

I'll give it a go too. Less effort is my favourite thing.

I've got a master caster due to be delivered next week. No more hand mold casting for me. :D

Hopefully I can get a more consistent bullet. The plan is to go hard at it while my wife is away for a week with our kid and not cast again or buy bullets until 2020. :wink:

same here man!! i like casting by hand,but i'm about to get myself 2 mastercaster fully automated. i'm retired,so only having to watch the machines do their thing correspond the idea of retirement LOL!!!

[dansedgli]

Awesome! You could almost start a business with 2. My plan was to automate it as well but I have to let my wife recover before I spend a chunk of money again with Hatch.

My shooting is reducing at the moment, wife has picked up another shift but it's on a weekend alternating days so that's knocked a day off while i look after our daughter.

[glockfan]

Awesome! You could almost start a business with 2. My plan was to automate it as well but I have to let my wife recover before I spend a chunk of money again with Hatch.

My shooting is reducing at the moment, wife has picked up another shift but it's on a weekend alternating days so that's knocked a day off while i look after our daughter.




that is the plan good sir!! a small start up.sounds good to me.

in my neck of the wood,only 1 bullet maker is offering hi tek'ed boolits for the whole country .

the good part in this for me,is that, they still don't get how to cook hi tek correctly , so their finished product isn't working as it should ; then shooters are reluctant to use hi tek'ed boolits ; this boolit maker ( X-METAL) is making a bad name to hi tek ; that is where i'm jumping on scene,i'm gonna rectify the bad perception people may have developped because the careless way hi tek is presented to shooters.

coating and PC's is a quite new concept here.i know it's goin on since decades in europe, but here we're in the early stages of developement of this lube-stain product ; lots of demands, not much offers . my production is gonna be a quality product,and i'm sure my start up will grow very fast .

as for family life,well yes, sometimes we may have to postpone certain things in favor of unexpected things life put on our path,quality time with the family is crucial,our toys are paid for and we can always catch up once things are settling smoothly over time.

cheers my friend!! hope the best to you,yours and your shooting-coating endeavors!!

[Ausglock]

Those 125gn RN Lee bullets... I have 3 or 4 of their 6vac molds I don't use anymore. I should sell them.
As well as a heap of other Lee 6 cav molds that no longer get used.

Might get a list together and see if anyone on OZ wants them...

[Tazza]

Not a bad idea. I have 2 lee 125rn 6 cavity ones that aren't being used

[dikman]

No no, don't do it, or I might end up buying another mold I don't need!!

[Tazza]

Hehe ebay listing coming up ��

[Avenger442]

Lees are my favorite mold. They are just easier to cast with, in my opinion. And the performance of the bullet is good. The most accurate bullets I've shot were from a Lee mold. I have several other brands including one of the more expensive aluminum molds. You can certainly spend more money.

I especially like the old hollow point Lee. I have a continuing search on Ebay trying to find one of the hollow points I don't have for my guns. The other brands barring one are just to heavy and the separate hollow point pin is inconvenient to cast with.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=cityofthesouth;4399054]
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4375/36384513412_84f1d74c89_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Xrb9dL)BlackCherry_HiTek (https://flic.kr/p/Xrb9dL) by city_ofthe_south (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101646264@N03/), on Flickr



Cityofthesouth,
Those coated alloys look absolutely great. You have done well.
For normal use, 2 coats is just fine. Some folk are a bit picky if there are imperfections showing on first coat.
Second coat covers up imperfections and makes them pretty but very useful.
Using 3 coats should not be necessary unless you are using very dilute mixtures.
Finished increase in diameter should be around 1.5 to 2 thou with two coats.
That is more that enough to work, if all is done well.

[HI-TEK]

Your right and that may be where I go after I check to see if a single coat will work. But it would be great to know that I could coat once and then shoot. We will see.

Go for it avenger. I really would like to see results with one coat well done.
Looking forward to post good or bad.

[glockfan]

Lees are my favorite mold. They are just easier to cast with, in my opinion. And the performance of the bullet is good. The most accurate bullets I've shot were from a Lee mold. I have several other brands including one of the more expensive aluminum molds. You can certainly spend more money.

I especially like the old hollow point Lee. I have a continuing search on Ebay trying to find one of the hollow points I don't have for my guns. The other brands barring one are just to heavy and the separate hollow point pin is inconvenient to cast with.

my experience of hearing my good buddy cursing over his lee armada kept me away from them ; halves not closing perfectly, boolit sticking badly, sprue plate coming loose all the time, loose assembly ......and on and on ........ ; so i went the brass and expensive custom mold's route. the only thing i regret is the weight of brass.....and i only have 4 bangers right now lol....lets say i ordered a 6 bangers MP mold. not sure i will even be able to lift it up lol. blessed i am, the mastercasters are on the way,and once i'm getting them up and running i might simply put my hand molds in the ads . lol.

[glockfan]

so guys,since my question hasn't be answered,i throw it around again: can i do 10 grams for 52ml of acetone,or should i respect the original recipe which is 20 grams for 105 ml of acetone?

[cityofthesouth]

i was exactly wondering this.

recipe say 20 grams of powder for 100 ML of acetone. does the defenition of ''diluted''' would mean more like 20 grams of powder for lets say 105 ml of acetone? ; is this would be diluted enough or would it be preferable to add more acetone for what we now call a ''thin coat'''??

also, i prefer having a fresh mix,so if i do 10 grams for 50ml acetone(well,probably more like 52ml acetone for a ''thin coat''' ) , does this still respect the ratio acetone-powder ?

Sorry, I don't check in very regularly. I actually don't even weigh the powder. I just take a teaspoon of powder filled loosely level, and do 25ML acetone to every teaspoon. I also swish out my containers and throw that in too. Who knows what the ratio is with that. It's just whatever is in my bottle and tumble container washed off with a splash of acetone. I would say it almost doesn't matter at all but I am sure there are extremes. If you are getting zero color on your first tumble then it's probably too thin. HA! I'm pretty sure volume and weight don't exactly convert, but I think what I am doing falls into the very diluted category - half maybe? Wait, no that's wrong. If you accept that a teaspoon might equal 5 grams then my mix isn't half. I would say I am doing more than the extra 5ML of acetone but not cutting it in half.

How much you need is entirely dependent on how many bullets you're coating so if you need to half it, half it. I just toss in another teaspoon + 25mL acetone as needed throughout my process. I usually use roughly 3 teaspoons for 1,000 bullets. There is always left over. I let it get all dry and gummy in the bottom of the bottle. Next time I coat, I swish in some acetone and carry on as usual.

[kevin c]

I am fairly new to casting and coating, but will offer up my impressions and experiences.

I've always been very precise in measuring and mixing my HT, and also in the baking process, but I now think that a range of mixes and baking temps and times will work just fine. AAMOF, it seems that, given the different starting variables we all face, individual tweaking of the process to our personal satisfaction is pretty much a given.

Personally, I use a more diluted mix: 20 g in 120 ml of acetone. Two coats works well (black cherry). The only problem I ever had was a more concentrated mix that caused some bullets to stick together in the bake. The mix was more concentrated because the acetone was the saved wash that had cleaned out my coating bucket several times. I had also used a bit more of the mix with a smaller number of boolits.

The mix keeps a long time, so I tend to make 120 ml batches and add to the stored amount when I get below 50 ml or so. I top it off because I coat in batches big enough to use up more than half, and I don't want to run out during the session. I have also noted that the suspended solids in the mix seem to disappear as I use up the mix, but faster than the proportion used. I haven't seen any color or performance change, so maybe I'm worrying over nothing there (I use the nonmetallic black cherry).

My reading in this thread gives me the impression that small batches may be more variable and may not translate well when scaled up. Whether it makes a difference I don't know for sure, but, even though a range of mixes will work, I like consistency, so for me doing the same prep and procedure is more likely to give me the same results.

[glockfan]

went trough out 32 lbs of boolits,and i like how it came out.

1st batch was 10grams of powder for 54 mll of acetone.

the second one was 10 grams for 50ml of acetone.

of course the more concentrated mix translated into a solid gold color,like the real metal (wish it was it LOL).

the diluted mix gave a greeniiish color,which i like also. old gold is by far my fav color of all.

both mix ratio passed the smash test no problems. no flaking at all,a very solid stain.

now the only thing i must address is the recovery time. it takes so long for the oven to get back at the temp asked,that i must litterally eye ball the baking process. so i added some time to the baking considering temp goes down to 325 after opening the door to slip the tray in,then it takes 5 minutes to get back to 400.

my oven is '''THE'''' convection '''clack and becker''' everyone uses, i've put a generic brick inside the over to help ,but i guess i need some of those barbecue rocks ,which might keep the heat much better in hope it will speeed up the recovery time ; while the only downside is a longer baking time,so no biggie there; i'm gonna get a multi level commercial unit sooner than later anyways.

can see the different color tone between the 2 mix ratio.

222819
222820222821

BTW,the boolits are from my own design,the 35-145M accurate mold. they drop at .358 ,good for 146grs.all the cavities are dropping exactly the same lenght,weight,diamter.... quite stunning mold to me,tom got it 100% perfect.

[glockfan]

222822
222823
222824
222825

[glockfan]

second coat with the dilutued mix

222826
222827
first coat with the diluted mix
222828

[cityofthesouth]

went trough out 32 lbs of boolits,and i like how it came out.

1st batch was 10grams of powder for 54 mll of acetone.

the second one was 10 grams for 50ml of acetone.

of course the more concentrated mix translated into a solid gold color,like the real metal (wish it was it LOL).

the diluted mix gave a greeniiish color,which i like also. old gold is by far my fav color of all.

both mix ratio passed the smash test no problems. no flaking at all,a very solid stain.

now the only thing i must address is the recovery time. it takes so long for the oven to get back at the temp asked,that i must litterally eye ball the baking process. so i added some time to the baking considering temp goes down to 325 after opening the door to slip the tray in,then it takes 5 minutes to get back to 400.

my oven is '''THE'''' convection '''clack and becker''' everyone uses, i've put a generic brick inside the over to help ,but i guess i need some of those barbecue rocks ,which might keep the heat much better in hope it will speeed up the recovery time ; while the only downside is a longer baking time,so no biggie there; i'm gonna get a multi level commercial unit sooner than later anyways.

can see the different color tone between the 2 mix ratio.

222819
222820222821

BTW,the boolits are from my own design,the 35-145M accurate mold. they drop at .358 ,good for 146grs.all the cavities are dropping exactly the same lenght,weight,diamter.... quite stunning mold to me,tom got it 100% perfect.

What's your loaded OAL for those?

[glockfan]

i'm loading same lenght as jacketed,which is 1.130 for all the nines i owns....they're all glocks or course lol.

while i might try a shorter coal for the first time ever,because some of them don't spin as freely as they're supposed to in the plunk test ; the resized .357 diameter boolit , as oppposed to the .355 for most jacketed , is probably the culprit here. i don't see the boolit lenght and profile being responsible for that since this mold is based on a proven bullet in my guns. it's a copycat of the hornady XTP 147 except i've replaced the HP's by a truncated cone. very,very accurate, on par with the jacketed version, very consistent accuracy .

[kevin c]

It may be comparing apples to oranges, but for your Old Gold mixes, the concentration of the stronger is 20 grams of HT powder per 100 ml acetone and the weaker is about 18.5 grams per hundred, while my Black Cherry mix works out to about 16.7 grams per hundred.

Two coats with my mix gets me the same color as cityofthesouth's Black Cherry, and both match the color others have shown using Black Cherry at higher mix ratios of powder to solvent. Your Old Gold color, though changed a lot. Of course, this doesn't take into account the amount each person prefers to use.

Anyway, HiTek Joe can chime in here if he wants, but I recall him saying words to the effect that the properly applied coating will do its job regardless of color intensity.

ETA: I love my gen 3's - my platform of choice for USPSA Production Division.

[Ausglock]

20gms to 100 ml is (was) the mix used to test the powdered coatings.
It gave excellent coverage (commercial quality) for 2 coats, which is what I was after.
If, for your own use, you want to dilute the mix, go right ahead.
I still use the original 20:100ml mix for all my commercial coating as well as my personal bullets. With this mix, I get Zero leading in the compenator of my STI TruBor at Major power factor 38 Supercomp.

15gms to 100mls is still a good 2 coat mix for the metallics, but will be blotchy with the non metallics. Black K15 needs the 20:100 mix.

[glockfan]

It may be comparing apples to oranges, but for your Old Gold mixes, the concentration of the stronger is 20 grams of HT powder per 100 ml acetone and the weaker is about 18.5 grams per hundred, while my Black Cherry mix works out to about 16.7 grams per hundred.

Two coats with my mix gets me the same color as cityofthesouth's Black Cherry, and both match the color others have shown using Black Cherry at higher mix ratios of powder to solvent. Your Old Gold color, though changed a lot. Of course, this doesn't take into account the amount each person prefers to use.

Anyway, HiTek Joe can chime in here if he wants, but I recall him saying words to the effect that the properly applied coating will do its job regardless of color intensity.

ETA: I love my gen 3's - my platform of choice for USPSA Production Division.

there is the oven thing into play.first batch i had this crumble catcher which covers the lower heating
element of the oven. i wasn't supposed to leave it there (i remove it usually) ,so got it out for the second batch which is the darker one. this product is very heat intensity sensitive from what i can see from the multiple experiences i proceeded to. it might be the reason as why the '''diluted '''1st batch has a silky smooth finish,and the second has a more '''raw''' surface texture to it ; and on this specific topic ,i'm not sure yet which one i like the most : with,or without the crumb catcher LOLOLOL!!!!


edit: and euuuuuu....metallic,non metallic.....what the hell are we talking about ??? is there some hi tek powder who are '''metallic''' and some others , '''non metallic''' ??? which one old gold fit in ? mettallic,or non metallic ?

[Ausglock]

Old Gold is Metallic

[cityofthesouth]

i'm loading same lenght as jacketed,which is 1.130 for all the nines i owns....they're all glocks or course lol.

while i might try a shorter coal for the first time ever,because some of them don't spin as freely as they're supposed to in the plunk test ; the resized .357 diameter boolit , as oppposed to the .355 for most jacketed , is probably the culprit here. i don't see the boolit lenght and profile being responsible for that since this mold is based on a proven bullet in my guns. it's a copycat of the hornady XTP 147 except i've replaced the HP's by a truncated cone. very,very accurate, on par with the jacketed version, very consistent accuracy .


It may be comparing apples to oranges, but for your Old Gold mixes, the concentration of the stronger is 20 grams of HT powder per 100 ml acetone and the weaker is about 18.5 grams per hundred, while my Black Cherry mix works out to about 16.7 grams per hundred.

Two coats with my mix gets me the same color as cityofthesouth's Black Cherry, and both match the color others have shown using Black Cherry at higher mix ratios of powder to solvent. Your Old Gold color, though changed a lot. Of course, this doesn't take into account the amount each person prefers to use.

Anyway, HiTek Joe can chime in here if he wants, but I recall him saying words to the effect that the properly applied coating will do its job regardless of color intensity.

ETA: I love my gen 3's - my platform of choice for USPSA Production Division.

Are you guys running factory barrels? Kevin, are you also loading to 1.13+?

[glockfan]

Are you guys running factory barrels?

yes.why not?

all the myths surrounding the glock polygonal riflings not suited to boolits is pure ....ahemmmm....pure....myths.

[kevin c]

Are you guys running factory barrels? Kevin, are you also loading to 1.13+?My Glocks run factory bbls and, like Glockfan, I've had no problems. I load to 1.135, shorter or longer depending on boolit length, to maintain internal volume (I'm lazy, and leave my measure with the same powder and throw weight for most of my 9 mm loads - of course, fiddling with COAL isn't effortless, and I'm probably not saving much time, but that's me) and subject to feeding characteristics of the assembled round. YMMV, of course.

[cityofthesouth]

yes.why not?

all the myths surrounding the glock polygonal riflings not suited to boolits is pure ....ahemmmm....pure....myths.

Yeah, I'm not making insinuations. I just bought a Tanfoglio with poly rifling in fact. What I'm interested in is bullets sticking in throats and what makes them work for some people and not for others with any given OAL and bullet design. I guess I could start a thread and take a survey.

[kevin c]

IIRC, Glock factory magazines in the small frame guns limit COAL to 1.155 or less, though personally I've not run that long, and I don't know about the large frame guns. The "plunk" test tells me if I'm too long for the leade or if I'm into the lands. I don't think I've encountered any particular bullet profile that hasn't worked in my 9mm, 40 or 45 Glocks, but it's not like I've tried more than a half dozen all told.

[glockfan]

IIRC, Glock factory magazines in the small frame guns limit COAL to 1.155 or less, though personally I've not run that long, and I don't know about the large frame guns. The "plunk" test tells me if I'm too long for the leade or if I'm into the lands. I don't think I've encountered any particular bullet profile that hasn't worked in my 9mm, 40 or 45 Glocks, but it's not like I've tried more than a half dozen all told.

true.

anything work in a glock.

i'm using FP's or TC's as much as possible both with my glocks , 9 and 40's , and 2 tactical sports i owns in 40's. never had feeding issues unless the coal was incorrect. i load both 17 and 34 same coal because both frames shares the same specs regarding barrel's throat and chamber ,and it's the fav coal of the shooting sport community for glocks 17 and 34 .

would however avoid anything semi wad-wad in my semis. not the bullet profile favorizing the short near vertical feed ramps we find on modern SA's. TC's and FP's are cutting nice large and round holes in cardbox:lol:..

my tac sports gets a short throat and tight chamber; however, i load both glock and tactical sport 40's the same COAL (1.135) . it is what is known to work in both guns in 40.....

i only have 2 nines which i use as practice guns for ipsc work out. both are glock.

[glockfan]

on another note, i'd like to know if some of you guys uses or not resizing lube.

while i'm quite new to casting, i've recently resized thousands of boolits i've cast,which of course are coated with hi tek.

while my coating doesn't flake in the dies at all,it sure rubs quite hard inside ,and it is the cause of some blemishes by friction. i'm favorable to not using lube if possible, but i feel something water based or a light lube could greatly help,without causing any harmth to the hi tek coating.

should i lube or not?

oh.i'm presently resizing on a lee press with a lee resizing die.

[Ausglock]

The HITEK Aqualube will reduce the sizing effort by about 80%. You mix it 10mls to a litre of De-natured Alc. A light spritze on the bullets and you are good to go.

COTS.. Tanwogs with factory barrels have been firing coated bullets here in OZ for over 20 years. no issues.
A lot of Open shooters use the Eric gold custom Tanwogs.
I run factory barrels in the G17A, G34 and G35. no issues.

[glockfan]

The HITEK Aqualube will reduce the sizing effort by about 80%. You mix it 10mls to a litre of De-natured Alc. A light spritze on the bullets and you are good to go.

COTS.. Tanwogs with factory barrels have been firing coated bullets here in OZ for over 20 years. no issues.
A lot of Open shooters use the Eric gold custom Tanwogs.
I run factory barrels in the G17A, G34 and G35. no issues.

i for sure like to get my hand on the aqualube, but i cant for sure find it on my side of the pond...is there anything else who might work ok at reducing the friction without damaging the coating ?

[smlekid]

I want to get hold of some of the HITEK Aqualube but right now I am using up some Hornady case lube spray it works ok with the boolit sizing
can't say the same with cases though
I'm using both Lee and NOE push through sizers

[HI-TEK]

i for sure like to get my hand on the aqualube, but i cant for sure find it on my side of the pond...is there anything else who might work ok at reducing the friction without damaging the coating ?

There are plenty of other lubes on the market, but how they compare is not known.
Aqualube is available directly from US or manufacturer.
There is no restriction with supplies.

[HI-TEK]

I want to get hold of some of the HITEK Aqualube but right now I am using up some Hornady case lube spray it works ok with the boolit sizing
can't say the same with cases though
I'm using both Lee and NOE push through sizers



smlekid,
Just contact local maker, I am sure that you can get supplies.

[glockfan]

I want to get hold of some of the HITEK Aqualube but right now I am using up some Hornady case lube spray it works ok with the boolit sizing
can't say the same with cases though
I'm using both Lee and NOE push through sizers

thanks for the cue sir.i have it,use it on the cases when loading on my xl650.wouldn't load without it.it smooth out the action of the press big time, the dies glides inside the case like a hot knife in butter .

i was hesitant at using one shot on the hi tek coating by fear it would destroy it or somethin...

[glockfan]

There are plenty of other lubes on the market, but how they compare is not known.
Aqualube is available directly from US or manufacturer.
There is no restriction with supplies.

is that means i could order directly from your business Joe?

[wlkjr]

so guys,since my question hasn't be answered,i throw it around again: can i do 10 grams for 52ml of acetone,or should i respect the original recipe which is 20 grams for 105 ml of acetone?

I use a level measuring tablespoon of powder to about 60ml of acetone. Has worked great for me.

[wlkjr]

i'm loading same lenght as jacketed,which is 1.130 for all the nines i owns....they're all glocks or course lol.

while i might try a shorter coal for the first time ever,because some of them don't spin as freely as they're supposed to in the plunk test ; the resized .357 diameter boolit , as oppposed to the .355 for most jacketed , is probably the culprit here. i don't see the boolit lenght and profile being responsible for that since this mold is based on a proven bullet in my guns. it's a copycat of the hornady XTP 147 except i've replaced the HP's by a truncated cone. very,very accurate, on par with the jacketed version, very consistent accuracy .
The bullet I use looks the same as yours. I have had no luck sizing at .357, matter of fact, even at .356 they don't drop easy into my case gauge; so I just use a spare Glock barrel. Since the 9mm case is tapered, I think seating longer may be better. I usually seat all mine about 1.125. I haven't tried seating longer to see if that helps. I could be off base but that's my theory.

[glockfan]

I use a level measuring tablespoon of powder to about 60ml of acetone. Has worked great for me.

i'm using a seringe for precise measurements....i'm quite anal in this deprtment lol.

i think i'm gonna stay with the diluted mix. in fact it's 54 ml of acetone 10 grams of powder.i like the color of the '' regular recipe '''' better, but the finish of the coating isn't as silky smooth as the results i'm getting with the diluted mix. a matter of having the most slippery finish possible,so it resize easily, and it probably glide a little better down the barrel if that is of any importance.

i've finally tried the dillon case lube made out of lanolyn and denatured alcohol. it is much forgiving for the coating and the die.

must reckon that this coating hi tek is very resistant to friction.i've resized thousands of my boolits dry, and it was rubbing very tight in the die,yet no flaking of color ripped off.only some blemishes due to the high friction coefficient.quite a tstament to this product.

i was .......hum....wondering if the aqualube 5000 is ....the same as the aqualube they sell in.....drug stores which is used for...ahum...you know?

seems both version are water based so i thought maybe i could try lol


as for seating my specific boolit, well,i knew depending the profile, i would have maybe to load at a much shorter coal than what i'm used to ; so then, i made sure this boolit could be seated deeper in the case without changing the load density drastically.

i might try 1.125 just to make sure all the finished rounds will pass the plunk test .not that it doesn't at 1.130, but some of them kind of not spin entirely freely. again my anal sens of perfection kicking in lol.

i'm surprized that,your rounds don't pass the gauge test at .356!!

most jacketed in 9mm are .355 diameter,but the way i see it, this number is undersize ,which is normal since we can go undersize with jacketed bullet,doesn't really matter , jacketed are hard enough to get a good ''grip'' on the riflings. but for casts, i know most glocks shoot good without leading at .357,while some units are doin good at .356.

seems like the thing with cast is that, we must get an oversized boolits because the material is softer than copper jacket ,then, it,s important to have some more ''meat''' so the riflings gets a good grip on the boolit bearing.....

maybe i miss something, but it,s how i understand the quest for accuracy and a clean barrel.

[kevin c]

Aqua lube 5000 is what I use - makes a big difference. The spray bottle I got from the good Mr. Miculek got unfixably plugged, so I measure it out in a syringe, having diluted it by half so I can measure it out more easily (I figured one or two spritz from the spray bottle might be half a cc for about 250 boolits, so I use a ml of the diluted stuff).

The personal lube stuff I kinda think would find itself out of its league, dontcha think? :kidding:

[Gremlin460]

Well nice to see after all this time the thread has gon from:-
"I can't get this stuff to work no matter what I do"
Now full of post of:-
"Oh I mix at a ratio of x to x works for me"

About time ppl got their act together :P..

[kevin c]

It only took us ten thousand posts to start paying attention to you, Ausglock and Joe... ;^D

[Ausglock]

Yeah... But I talk a lot of Sierra Hotel India Tango

[HI-TEK]

is that means i could order directly from your business Joe?


Sorry, I was referring to sales down under. Your orders may be processible from US.
US has recently being sent plenty of Aqualube stock that will arrive mid August, but Donnie has stocks any way.

[glockfan]

The personal lube stuff I kinda think would find itself out of its league, dontcha think? :kidding:

well, it's called aqualube as well,and it's water based. i tought that maybe the recipe for such water based lube is quite simple,then maybe one or the other would be quite the same.

the dillon case lube did ok,but nothing exceptionnal,it's just lanolyne and denatured alcohol. one shot gives better results in the ''slippery'' department, but at the price it sells i'll keep it for my XL650 and the cases......this lube thing got me an occasion to see the difference in texture between the diluted and the regular mix ; the darker livery has a rougher surface texture,then it kind of grip in the die , the diluted batch is silky smooth and glide in the die . the end result is the same, it's just the action of the press who gets the benefits of the silkier boolits.

[Ausglock]

well, it's called aqualube as well,and it's water based. i tought that maybe the recipe for such water based lube is quite simple,then maybe one or the other would be quite the same.

the dillon case lube did ok,but nothing exceptionnal,it's just lanolyne and denatured alcohol. one shot gives better results in the ''slippery'' department, but at the price it sells i'll keep it for my XL650 and the cases......this lube thing got me an occasion to see the difference in texture between the diluted and the regular mix ; the darker livery has a rougher surface texture,then it kind of grip in the die , the diluted batch is silky smooth and glide in the die . the end result is the same, it's just the action of the press who gets the benefits of the silkier boolits.

Build your self one of these like I did.
This contraption just keeps on going.
I have sized over 1/4 million bullets on this. It is not as fast at the Magma sizer with collator, but the Mr Bullet feeder makes it a good bit of home made kit. I use it now for my personal stuff, as well as sizing the bullets used to test the experimental coatings from HITEK Joe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co6h-iTHjP0

[Avenger442]

I thought it was called Aqualube because you could lube em under water.:roll:

It has been two months since I said I wanted to do this but I finally got around to range time with the single coat Hi Tek bullets in the .308 rifle. The day was a hot one 90 F and about 80% humidity "feel like temp" was well over 100 F. I had used up the cooler part of the day with a chain saw on a storm damaged tree and didn't get to the range until 1 PM.

Load was a Lee 164 grain 13 BHN bullet sized .309 with one coat of 1035 Gold Hi Tek over 41.5 grains of H4895 in Winchester cases and CCI primer. Speed on this load is between 25 and 2600 fps. Rather than take my usual test mule to the range I used my Granddaughter's Remington 700 deer gun. It has a bull barrel, which I thought might handle the heat better, a 4-12X40 Remington scope and I had put a Caldwell bi pod on it. Since accuracy was not the focus but to see if the one coat would stand up to the pressure of my normal load in the rifle I didn't use the other rifle and Caldwell Lead Sled. And I was a bit worried that I might have to clean the lead out of my better rifle. As it turned out worry was not justified. I went down the barrel with a patch wet with Frog Lube this afternoon and a couple of dry patches to get it shined up. With the bore light I could see no fouling at all either end. I plan to take a look later with the bore cam but don't expect to find anything. Honestly the barrel looked like it did after I cleaned it before the test.

Like I said this is a deer rifle and the best groups I have seen it shoot were 2-3" at 100 yards depending on round. Good for hunting out to about 200 yards. Which is about the longest shot we would get around here. Best group for this test was 6". It was the next to last of the six five shot groups. I had brought some American Eagle 149 grain FMJ that I shot five rounds of first to dirty up the barrel. That group was 6 1/2 ". So either it was the heat, the bi pod, the loads or the shooter. Or a combination of some or all of them. And it might be that adding my usual two coats after sizing gives me a little more diameter? Anyway these groups were terrible. Which made me worry even more that I had leaded the barrel when I left the range. But the Hi Tek did it's job.

[glockfan]

Build your self one of these like I did.
This contraption just keeps on going.
I have sized over 1/4 million bullets on this. It is not as fast at the Magma sizer with collator, but the Mr Bullet feeder makes it a good bit of home made kit. I use it now for my personal stuff, as well as sizing the bullets used to test the experimental coatings from HITEK Joe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co6h-iTHjP0

don't know about its reliability, but this thing seems to work very good.

Trevor,is there a tutorial somewhere with a part list for the build?

[Ausglock]

don't know about its reliability, but this thing seems to work very good.

Trevor,is there a tutorial somewhere with a part list for the build?

Tutorial???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA... Parts List???? HAHAHAHAHA...
I built it as I went. Welding and grinding to suit.
I have plans to build another that will use a larger power motor and a 15:1 gearbox rather than a 20:1 to size faster.

[glockfan]

Tutorial???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA... Parts List???? HAHAHAHAHA...
I built it as I went. Welding and grinding to suit.
I have plans to build another that will use a larger power motor and a 15:1 gearbox rather than a 20:1 to size faster.

LOL!!!

hmmkay.

seems you're more talented than me , i couldn't figure out such one of a kind assembly from scratch .

[HI-TEK]

LOL!!!

hmmkay.

seems you're more talented than me , i couldn't figure out such one of a kind assembly from scratch .


As I said before, our Ausglock is the McGiver of our industry and can do any thing and make things from nothing.
Next thing is, he will start production of sizing machines in his spare time.....lol...lol
What's next?????

[Ausglock]

Ha..
I have built a Sizer, A rotary coater and the next on my list is automating the Ballisti-cast Mark X caster.

[glockfan]

and the next on my list is automating the Ballisti-cast Mark X caster.


....so you can rest on the couch watching it running one eye closed like the dude of your avatar lol

[Tazza]

Sadly i can't venture fare from my master caster. If i stop looking it's way, it slacks off and does something naughty!

I like your sizer

[Gremlin460]

He better not... beside how many hilux motors are there laying around :kidding:

Just so happens I have been cleared by the wife to play in the shed again making these..

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?272659-AS-2-Auto-Sizer-Gattling-Mag-Sizer-feeder-Rifle-Cast-Mod-for-AS-2

As you can see from the original post date I been cobbling these together since 2015.

Watch the videos on utube, links in the post, if your interested Gremlin460@optushome.com.au will get you more info.

[dansedgli]

Can they work with the lee classic cast press? I think the primer hole is in the centre of the tube.

I definitely need something like that before my air cylinder takes my fingertips off.

[Gremlin460]

It is based on you having one of these cheapo presses...

Lee Breech Lock Challenger Reloading Press Reloader 90588

And i know what you mean about air powered, that's why I refuse to build anyone the AS/3 I made just for giggles, it punches through pine boards without slowing down..

[HI-TEK]

He better not... beside how many hilux motors are there laying around :kidding:

Just so happens I have been cleared by the wife to play in the shed again making these..

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?272659-AS-2-Auto-Sizer-Gattling-Mag-Sizer-feeder-Rifle-Cast-Mod-for-AS-2

As you can see from the original post date I been cobbling these together since 2015.

Watch the videos on utube, links in the post, if your interested Gremlin460@optushome.com.au will get you more info.


Well, I have an old Volkswagen Motor that has run about 30 hours, my be he can connect it with a flexible driveshaft.....

[dansedgli]

Bummer I bought the wrong press. Currently using the cheap C frame lee with an air cylinder at the moment. The plan was to build something like your AS/3 so I could just watch it.

Hard to find the time though lately.

[glockfan]

He better not... beside how many hilux motors are there laying around :kidding:

Just so happens I have been cleared by the wife to play in the shed again making these..

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?272659-AS-2-Auto-Sizer-Gattling-Mag-Sizer-feeder-Rifle-Cast-Mod-for-AS-2

As you can see from the original post date I been cobbling these together since 2015.

Watch the videos on utube, links in the post, if your interested Gremlin460@optushome.com.au will get you more info.

watched your videos. intersting resizing solution right there,and depending how much you ask for the kit, would probably get me one unit for experimentations , as soon as possible for you to build me one of your kits .

while i may be quite new to casting, the resizing job is already something of absolute boringness .......honestly, i think i'm heading the automated resizer route. first guy offering something half decent has a sale lol.

BTW,i've sent you a PM asking more about your resizer,maybe you mailbox is full.......

[Gremlin460]

I answered your message.
Sounds to me you want an industrial unit that is auto powered... You should be able to buy one like that for several thousand dollars, or get an engineer to build you one.

The units I make are more for the home reloaders , although some small home based bullet makers have got one or two.

Or alternatively you can simply build something that suits you specific needs yourself. Like Ausglock and I did.

[Tazza]

I made one from parts i had laying around too, including a VFD my dad had no idea what it was and was going to go on the scrap pile!

Not a great video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYMW5v0P5SY

[dikman]

Looks pretty good Tazza.
Trevor, what do you call yours, Frankenfeeder? :lol:

[Tazza]

Looks pretty good Tazza.
Trevor, what do you call yours, Frankenfeeder? :lol:

Or the finger pincher?

That is one thing i make sure of, never put a paw anywhere near the punch, i can see it causing some pretty nasty damage.

[glockfan]

although some small home based bullet makers have got one or two.

.

which exactly match my needs for now.

if ever the start up grow up into a sailing business,at one point an automated resizer is a no brainer. it becomes a '''need'' .

i like the gatling feeder system.

[Ausglock]

Looks pretty good Tazza.
Trevor, what do you call yours, Frankenfeeder? :lol:
I call mine, Herman.
after Herman Munster

[Tazza]

I always find it hard to come up with names, i call my welder mr sparky for obvious reasons, the plasma cutter mr burns because every time i use it, i get burnt......

[Avenger442]

My Dad's profession was a welder. Pipe for local gas company for the most part. Even he got burned occasionally. And I am like you. Burned somewhere almost every time.:hijack::-D

Grem
If I buy one of the AS/2, with the RM and the GM in the group buy is the shipping $234 US? Or is the shipping reduced if all bought together?

[Gremlin460]

no shipping on the RM as it fits inside one of the other boxes, group freight has never really worked out or been worth it as the all go to different destinations. Remember this is air freight so goes on weight not on box size so much. I dont send via Malaysia Airways either.

[Ausglock]

I got an email saying that HATCH posted that "this thread is not on topic"
I can't see the post or he deleted it.
But.... All I can say is..... On Topic??????.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... 99% of this thread is not on topic.
Thread hijacking is an artform...

[Gremlin460]

Hatch is right, my bad. There is another thread for this here:-
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?272659-AS-2-Auto-Sizer-Gattling-Mag-Sizer-feeder-Rifle-Cast-Mod-for-AS-2

So lets get back to talking about the problems coating with Hi-Tek. I cant contribute sorry because I have zero issues with coating. leading, flaking, so I have nothing to add.
I do know it dont taste nice.

[HI-TEK]

Today, it was a sight to behold. Today, I set fire to retention stock of previous batches, Liquid and powder.
I estimated that we burned about 250 litres assorted coloured liquid,
and about 100 kilos of various powdered coatings. You should have seen the beautiful colours in the flame.
I was dancing around the flames but had no marshmallows to toast.
You should have seen all the colours of the Rainbow in the flames. It was magic.
I though it was psychedelic experience. Or was it that I may have been affected by the fumes. LOL LOL

[Ausglock]

I might have to get a slab of Canadian Club and burn all the coating samples I have here too.
get drunk and watch the fire..

[glockfan]

Today, it was a sight to behold. Today, I set fire to retention stock of previous batches, Liquid and powder.
I estimated that we burned about 250 litres assorted coloured liquid,
and about 100 kilos of various powdered coatings. You should have seen the beautiful colours in the flame.
I was dancing around the flames but had no marshmallows to toast.
You should have seen all the colours of the Rainbow in the flames. It was magic.
I though it was psychedelic experience. Or was it that I may have been affected by the fumes. LOL LOL

were they '''expired''' materials?

[perminator]

Is there any difference In using mek instead of acetone such as a smoother finish?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Grmps]

MEK evaporates slower than acetone and is good for use in the summer when it's hot. (If you don't coat the boolits completely or over tumble the boolits you will get a rough coating).

[Ausglock]

I use both MEK and Acetone. No difference to the finish.

[glockfan]

MEK evaporates slower than acetone and is good for use in the summer when it's hot. (If you don't coat the boolits completely or over tumble the boolits you will get a rough coating).

i'm tempted by mek. i don't have a problem with acetone,but you must act very fast before it goes thick, the key being exactly getting the coverage done before the sound change for a muffled sound ,which gives a rough finish, and ultimately may turn in the peeling of the product. the interesting point with mek is you can swirl till the coverage is complete without risk of a complete evaporation of the product.

[Ausglock]

Or.... just add a few Mls of Metho to the acetone to slow down the flashoff..

[Grmps]

Or you can add up to 20% denatured alcohol here in the States to slow down flash off

[glockfan]

Or.... just add a few Mls of Metho to the acetone to slow down the flashoff..

Trevor...a little more about it...

first, what is metho?...sorry,i'm a noob lol

[dansedgli]

Fresh 122 flat points out of my new master caster. Zombie green. Apparently they are accurate. Here's hoping.

223375

[Ausglock]

Trevor...a little more about it...

first, what is metho?...sorry,i'm a noob lol

de-natured Alcohol is Metho. Metho is very popular with the Alcos when mixed with Orange juice.

[sureYnot]

de-natured Alcohol is Metho. Metho is very popular with the Alcos when mixed with Orange juice.Methanol will kill you... After it makes you blind. Ethanol is the stuff that's good with juice.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

[HI-TEK]

Methanol will kill you... After it makes you blind. Ethanol is the stuff that's good with juice.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


sureYnot,
You are correct, Methanol will blind you and kill you. For many years, Methanol was used in Ethanol, to discourage people drinking it and was called Methylated Spirits, or Metho.
After many that were addicted to Ethanol, went blind, and had died from poisoning, it was decided by our lawmakers, that other deterrents should be used, like Bittrex, and Iso-Propanol.
These mixtures were the sold as denatured Alcohol or continued to be called Methylated Spirits. Other denaturants were Butanol which gave a strange odour to the Ethanol.

These newer denatured alcohols, are now used in home made drinks, as a cheap source of Ethanol, but they will all make user sick, (not Blind), and die a slower way.

Because of the nature of these mixtures, it is very difficult to purify the denatured Ethanol that will make it more suitable for drinking.

[Avenger442]

I quit drinking alcohol as a beverage about 40 years ago. Back then we could buy what was called pure grain which was supposed to be 200 proof or 100% alcohol. We mixed it with grape juice and several other things to make purple passion punch. And it packed quite a punch. Funny thing was you could hardly taste the alcohol.

It made a good boost to the gas in your car, too. As long as you didn’t use too much and blow up the motor. Alcohol burns with a quicker explosion than gas. And too much would destroy a engine not built for it.

[Gremlin460]

I only trust my friend Johnny Walker to mix what I drink. (is this off topic? :P)
:kidding:

[dansedgli]

What do you reckon is the cause of the bullet with a ****ty coat on half the bullet? I get 2 or 3 in each batch i cook.

This is after the first coat.223409

[Ausglock]

What do you reckon is the cause of the bullet with a ****ty coat on half the bullet? I get 2 or 3 in each batch i cook.

This is after the first coat.223409

Add more acetone. your mix is too thick. thin it out a bit.

[dansedgli]

Will do, thanks mate.

[glockfan]

I only trust my friend Johnny Walker to mix what I drink. (is this off topic? :P)
:kidding:

had some double black recently.the smoky and peaty aspect.....were strong .liked it quite some.

[snscasting]

The bullet got some kind of contamination. Could be a sweaty hand or some kind of mold release.

[HI-TEK]

Slide, sent you a PM.

[slide]

Got it! Info sent back!

[Gremlin460]

I think there is some Irony in the fact I am spending all day on the lathe turning parts for the next AS/2 batch/group buy, so YOU mob can size your casts. But in doing so you are taking all MY casting and coating time up.....

The way this universe works is really weird some times.

BTW Joe that experimental invisible coating you sent me works fine! after the second coat/sizing .. I cant find the **** things!!

[Tazza]

This is why you need to teach your wife how to use the lathe and make the pins for you while you get to cast and coat :)

My wife was happy to spend any money i got from selling my casts, yet she refused to do any hand sizing for me, go figure.....

Better keep that invisible coating away, i loose enough things without loosing more of my mind.

[HI-TEK]

I think there is some Irony in the fact I am spending all day on the lathe turning parts for the next AS/2 batch/group buy, so YOU mob can size your casts. But in doing so you are taking all MY casting and coating time up.....

The way this universe works is really weird some times.

BTW Joe that experimental invisible coating you sent me works fine! after the second coat/sizing .. I cant find the **** things!!


Grem, NOW YOU HAVE DONE IT.
MY UFO Friends will be most upset. This was supposed to be a highly secret project.
Now I will have Ausglock pester me why I did not supply him first.
Come to think of it, I cant find the container I made this stuff in any way. So much for UFO technology......

[Grmps]

You need to dig out the X-Ray glasses you bought out of your childhood comic book. :bigsmyl2:

[HI-TEK]

You need to dig out the X-Ray you bought out of your childhood comic book. :bigsmyl2:

Grmps, I have beaten the system. I located my invisible coated alloy. I simply used the Lead Magnet I had, that stuck to the alloy when I was scanning.

[Stephen Cohen]

I don't know what you guys are drinking but wish I had some. On a more sober note, I met an old gent last week I had not seen in 3 years, he asked if I still cast and coated my own projectiles and of cause he managed to get a couple hundred out of me to try, well he turned up today and asked if I could cast him and his son 500 as they have never found more accurate projectiles for their .357 revolvers. I also gave a good friend some to try some 6 months ago and he was reluctant to take or try them, he also rang and asked if I could now coat all his bullets with the magic juice. I need to learn to keep my big mouth shut as there was a time when I could win a match or two. Regards Stephen

[HI-TEK]

I don't know what you guys are drinking but wish I had some. On a more sober note, I met an old gent last week I had not seen in 3 years, he asked if I still cast and coated my own projectiles and of cause he managed to get a couple hundred out of me to try, well he turned up today and asked if I could cast him and his son 500 as they have never found more accurate projectiles for their .357 revolvers. I also gave a good friend some to try some 6 months ago and he was reluctant to take or try them, he also rang and asked if I could now coat all his bullets with the magic juice. I need to learn to keep my big mouth shut as there was a time when I could win a match or two. Regards Stephen


Hi Stephen,
Mine is, when I can get it, is good old Kentucky extract.

Back to reality, thank you for your post.
You obviously had produced a great product for people coming back for more.
I have found over the years, that guys who gave out samples to mates, a lot ended up with a small businesses casting and coating. Then they became overwhelmed with people wanting product as word spread.
Some, simply went one step further, and began commercially producing whilst working in a full time job.
A few more simply went the whole hog, and decided to working full time for themselves, casting and coating. It gave them satisfaction, and small bonus is, it paid bills.
It is a very addictive pleasure when success is achieved.
Joe

[dansedgli]

Sorry for talking about hitek but... :-D

Ive adjusted my cooking weight and time and used a more diluted mix and my colours are looking much better.

Based on ausglocks advice Ive reduced temp to 190 from 200, increased time to 11 minutes and now using 120mls / 20 grams. It feels like i can swirl longer now.

223472

[HI-TEK]

Sorry for talking about hitek but... :-D

Ive adjusted my cooking weight and time and used a more diluted mix and my colours are looking much better.

Based on ausglocks advice Ive reduced temp to 190 from 200, increased time to 11 minutes and now using 120mls / 20 grams. It feels like i can swirl longer now.

223472


They look great. Have you smash tested them?
With swirling/coating, I have to say, that with first coat, you add just barely enough coating mixture to cast, it should be just enough volume to barely coat. Only shake coat for 10-15 seconds. Rough finishes, mostly caused by too much or too long tumble coating. As solvent dries off, the residue becomes sticky. This causes small lumps to form. Then drying and baking, simply sets this coating as is, lumps and all. It ends up rough looking. Using more diluted mix helps, as you apply same volume of a dilute mixture, and ends up using less coating as well. This reduces the sticky lumps from forming.

[HI-TEK]

dansedgli sent you a pm

[dansedgli]

Yep, they pass the smash test.

My brown hot spots have pretty much disappeared which I'm happy about. That picture looks a bit brighter than in real life but I am pretty happy with it now.

Is there a 3rd green colour? A mate was shooting a green colour darker than mine tonight, he got the boolits from another guy who has started making his own. They looked pretty good.

[HI-TEK]

Yep, they pass the smash test.

My brown hot spots have pretty much disappeared which I'm happy about. That picture looks a bit brighter than in real life but I am pretty happy with it now.

Is there a 3rd green colour? A mate was shooting a green colour darker than mine tonight, he got the boolits from another guy who has started making his own. They looked pretty good.

Yes there is a Dark Green Metallic.
It is a very popular colour as well. Attached is a picture223473

[dansedgli]

That's the one. Might try that next when I get bored of ZG.

[dansedgli]

Tried coating some copper jacket projectiles today.

I threw them in last minute so ended up doing 2 coats on those and 3 on the lead.

Worked out pretty good.

223587

[dansedgli]

Again with a close up.

223589

I am not sure what benefits this might have apart from being used at clubs or matches that have banned plated projies.

[Avenger442]

From previous statements on this thread, mainly from Joe, the coating of jacketed has been done to prevent some of the copper fouling in the barrel therefore extending length of time between cleanings and may add some speed due to lubrication using the same load. I understand that some competition guys have used it on rifle bullets to help improve scores and the length of time that a barrel will last. The help being something like molly coated bullets. Guys that shoot a lot of bullets in a year, 1000s, have to replace barrels fairly regular due to erosion. I've always understood that most of this erosion was due to extreme heat at the beginning of the lands. Especially with competition loads in rifles and distances out to 1000 yards where you are pushing the limit on max loading. So I'm not sure about extended barrel life being a particular advantage of Hi Tek, molly or any other coating. Maybe a reduction in the amount of heat due to reduced load producing the same speed? I can see how a lube could give you some more speed out of the same load. I have not personally tested any of this. So all is an assumption based on reading what others have written.

And there is always the purdy colors. I guess it could be done to color code rounds for some reason.

Maybe there is a test brewing here for someone to engage in? We tried the speed test between PC and Hi Tek and didn't find much difference. What about jacketed and jacketed with HI Tek coating max power? Anyone game?

[HI-TEK]

Again with a close up.

223589

I am not sure what benefits this might have apart from being used at clubs or matches that have banned plated prodgies.


dansedgli
These tests were done many years ago in Aus.
The aim was to stop Copper fouling of barrels. As you know, Copper residues in Barrel require removal of this contaminant, and cleaners in effect erode away the bore by electrolytic corrosion.
Main thing of benefit, when using coated Jacketed or Electroplated cast is, no more Copper fouling, clean barrels, no more corrosive cleaners required, possibly resulting in less barrel wear and possible increase in accuracy. I don't know about speed changes, as that test was not done.

The coatings, will not reduce possibility of Copper pieces being a problem with bounce back towards shooter in indoor ranges.

[Ausglock]

I coated some Tigershark Plated 123gn HP and ran them through the TurBor.
Shot fine with no issues.

[Tazza]

*gasp* using the oppositions projectiles? shame shame :)

I know a guy that used some tigershark projectiles, they didn't have many good things to say about them, hopefully it was just a bad batch.

[Ausglock]

Yeah. I got a 1000 to test against my 125gn SWC... for open Major in the 38 Supercomp.

The extra $$$ per 1000 was not worth the effort.