simple Hi-Tek coating

[Avenger442]

Ok so these things look great. My problem is that after 4 coats they still fail the rub test. 400 degrees dried for a day in between. hmmmm?


We have been discussing for some time some of the coatings that came across the P pond with a little too much color in them. Donnie said he thought it was just the reds but I've also had a problem with dark blue and black 1035. These will deposit a little color on the rag when doing rub test. But coating will not come off down to the lead. Some will leave a little color in your barrel which cleans out like powder residue. It would help to analyze you problem if you could post a photo of the rag and bullet used in the rub test. It's probably just one of those batches with too much color. Joe waisting his resources :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

If you do get some where they rub off all the way to the lead on first rub test you can bake them a little longer and fix it. No amount of baking will fix the batches with too much color in them. Just load em and shoot em. Mine that are that way leave no lead in the barrel. Which is the main objective anyway. If they fail a smash test, that is big flakes down to the lead, then start all over means toss them in the melting pot and re cast. The only way to fix that problem.

This is the non-professional coater speaking from my experience with Hi Tek. Ain't no complaint intended.

[Utah Shooter]

We have been discussing for some time some of the coatings that came across the P pond with a little too much color in them. Donnie said he thought it was just the reds but I've also had a problem with dark blue and black 1035. These will deposit a little color on the rag when doing rub test. But coating will not come off down to the lead. Some will leave a little color in your barrel which cleans out like powder residue. It would help to analyze you problem if you could post a photo of the rag and bullet used in the rub test. It's probably just one of those batches with too much color. Joe waisting his resources :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

If you do get some where they rub off all the way to the lead on first rub test you can bake them a little longer and fix it. No amount of baking will fix the batches with too much color in them. Just load em and shoot em. Mine that are that way leave no lead in the barrel. Which is the main objective anyway. If they fail a smash test, that is big flakes down to the lead, then start all over means toss them in the melting pot and re cast. The only way to fix that problem.

This is the non-professional coater speaking from my experience with Hi Tek. Ain't no complaint intended.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170325/87ea718fa82eb1a1d88c595ff2ebe795.jpg you can see the lead spot where it came off

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[HI-TEK]

you can see the lead spot where it came off

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

I would not suggest shooting these at all. Coating has not bonded to alloy.
The ones you showed, should not pass smash test, and coating will flake off.
The colour you obtained is well over cooked, but that is not a problem. Lack of coating bonding to alloy is the problem. This unfortunately is a re-melt job.

There seems to be a confusion with description of rub test and results.
With only a few colours, we did obtain a "Bleed of colour", no flakes were coming off.
1. Solvent rub test, is there, to ensure that coating resin is cured adequately. If coating is not cured adequately, next coat will strip previous coats.
2. If coating rubs off alloy in shreds , strips or flakes, coating is cured but not stuck to alloy.
Main reasons why first coat has not sticking is
a. Not drying coating adequately, wet and humid or cold drying conditions.
( It is best to test cook only a few to check drying, and to see if good bonding has been reached) If it cooks well, no flaking with smash test, no rub off, only then bake rest.
b. Applying too much coating coupled with "a", which slows down drying.

[Utah Shooter]

Not trying to be to quick to judge but this bucket is going in the trash. I have lost track at how many different batches as of now all with the same result. After trying it many different ways over the last two weeks; waited a day for drying, put them under a fan, cooked some at 375, some at 400, some at 425, some for 10 minutes (still the same color), some for 20 minutes. I am not one to give up easily but after spending time to cast and then to have none of this working out, I am going to call it quits. Maybe I am just not able to learn how to use it. Definitely not worth my time. Hi Tek and I are just not meant to be.

Thanks you everyone for the help.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Not trying to be to quick to judge but this bucket is going in the trash. I have lost track at how many different batches as of now all with the same result. After trying it many different ways over the last two weeks; waited a day for drying, put them under a fan, cooked some at 375, some at 400, some at 425, some for 10 minutes (still the same color), some for 20 minutes. I am not one to give up easily but after spending time to cast and then to have none of this working out, I am going to call it quits. Maybe I am just not able to learn how to use it. Definitely not worth my time. Hi Tek and I are just not meant to be.

Thanks you everyone for the help.

Coukd you have contaminated the bullets? Drop Bullets on a dirty rag? Too much sprue plate lube? Oil or lube in a storage container? Something prior to costing that is creating a barrier?

[Ausglock]

OK... Joe...
If you are using 6mls to 250 bullets and getting this.
Try dropping back to 4mls for the first coat.
Bake it and do the test.
Let me know.

As MJS said above.. are you sure there isn't any other crud that could be on the alloy prior to coating??
You are using pure Acetone?? UN1090.. the real deal. Not some walmart special???

[ioon44]

Not trying to be to quick to judge but this bucket is going in the trash. I have lost track at how many different batches as of now all with the same result. After trying it many different ways over the last two weeks; waited a day for drying, put them under a fan, cooked some at 375, some at 400, some at 425, some for 10 minutes (still the same color), some for 20 minutes. I am not one to give up easily but after spending time to cast and then to have none of this working out, I am going to call it quits. Maybe I am just not able to learn how to use it. Definitely not worth my time. Hi Tek and I are just not meant to be.

Thanks you everyone for the help.

What temperature are you drying at?

I found that getting them to 125 deg F for 30 min insures that drying is complete and then there is the contaminated alloy question, maybe try a totally different bunch of alloy.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I hear a lot of talk about proper drying but have never seen and issue with just a couple minutes depending on the day.
Me thinks it's a contamination.

[wlkjr]

I fill up a small Folgers plastic coffee can with boolits and pour about 4 oz. of acetone over them and shake. Then drain that into another plastic can full through 4 cans full. I drain off the excess and discard. I pour the boolits out into each cooking tray and put them under a fan to dry, which takes all of less then two minutes. That pretty much washes off any residual contamination. This process has worked for me.

[Redwoode]

If things get too hot during casting resulting in "frosty" casts can that adversely affect first coat bond? Some of the frost will wipe or rub off.

[slide]

I coated 500 for a buddy last week and his bullets were frosty. They came out fine.

[17nut]

Tried it on bullets for my .455 Webley today and it just works. I'm happier than a pig in mud :D

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Webley%20revolver/IMG_0092%20s_zpsjld4o3xb.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Chickenthief/media/Skydning/Webley%20revolver/IMG_0092%20s_zpsjld4o3xb.jpg.html)

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

17nut,
Good looking bullets.

[HI-TEK]

17nut,
Good looking bullets.


Agreed. Well done 17nut. How did you find bore after shooting these?

[Michael J. Spangler]

Tried it on bullets for my .455 Webley today and it just works. I'm happier than a pig in mud :D

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Webley%20revolver/IMG_0092%20s_zpsjld4o3xb.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Chickenthief/media/Skydning/Webley%20revolver/IMG_0092%20s_zpsjld4o3xb.jpg.html)


Cool bullet! what mould is that?

[Gremlin460]

Trev, Pete (armourer up here @ GCPC) tell me he is looking for 500 of the 45/70 @ 300GN PM your reply ifn you like.

[TonyN]

Sounds like he is having the problems I was. My Hi-Tek is working amazing. I have bought 6 colors and love them. The ones I don't care as much for is the black cherry,gold 1025,old gold but then again I'll still use them. The kryptonite green,bronze 500 and bronze 502 are amazing.
Anyways I was working on this coating for prob. A year and had bad results. My lead had sink in it. I said I wouldn't go back to WW so now I'm buying Range lead and like it. 12 min. Is about my ideal cooking time. I prob could do 11.5 but been doing 12.

[Avenger442]

I also like those bullets that 17nut has coated. I don't remember seeing that bullet before and was also wondering if it was a custom mold. Wide flat nose and hollow base. Looks like a good hard hitting hunting bullet.

And I like the rifle bullet Blane did one page back. Looks like something I would put in my gun. You guys look like you've got it.

We're getting some good photos of the coated bullets and I would like to see how they perform, too. Since that is the end goal.

I plan on going to the range this Saturday. Will try to post photos of the results.

[17nut]

Cool bullet! what mould is that?

RCBS 455-250-RN-HB

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Webley%20revolver/IMG_00241_zpsyrjgk1f3.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Chickenthief/media/Skydning/Webley%20revolver/IMG_00241_zpsyrjgk1f3.jpg.html)

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/193682/rcbs-1-cavity-bullet-mold-45-250-rn-hb-45-colt-long-colt-455-diameter-250-grain-round-nose-hollow-base

[Michael J. Spangler]

RCBS 455-250-RN-HB

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Webley%20revolver/IMG_00241_zpsyrjgk1f3.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Chickenthief/media/Skydning/Webley%20revolver/IMG_00241_zpsyrjgk1f3.jpg.html)

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/193682/rcbs-1-cavity-bullet-mold-45-250-rn-hb-45-colt-long-colt-455-diameter-250-grain-round-nose-hollow-base


Thank ye sai

[Redwoode]

Curious how often swirling container should be cleaned out of prior batch residues? I just did a 6th batch same container and that first coat much darker than on the first batch. Still using 6ml per 4.5lbs.

Thanks

[HI-TEK]

Curious how often swirling container should be cleaned out of prior batch residues? I just did a 6th batch same container and that first coat much darker than on the first batch. Still using 6ml per 4.5lbs.

Thanks

Good question. Answer is simple. When you see a build up in your coating bucket, simply add more projectiles, plus a little Acetone only. Swirl around and this will slowly re-dissolve residue and coat alloy. You can regard this as first coat and recycle coating if you have enough residues.

[zomby woof]

Does Black Cherry have metallic in it?

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Does Black Cherry have metallic in it?


No it does not. Closest color with metallic that I have in stock is Candy Apple Red.

[ioon44]

Good question. Answer is simple. When you see a build up in your coating bucket, simply add more projectiles, plus a little Acetone only. Swirl around and this will slowly re-dissolve residue and coat alloy. You can regard this as first coat and recycle coating if you have enough residues.

I find that if I let too much coating build up in the bucket and use the straight Acetone I will get too much coating on the bullets, so if I clean the bucket regularly it works really well.

[zomby woof]

Curious how often swirling container should be cleaned out of prior batch residues? I just did a 6th batch same container and that first coat much darker than on the first batch. Still using 6ml per 4.5lbs.

Thanks

I add a little acetone to my swirl container. I then put a top on the container and swirl around until the sides are cleaned off and add it back to my mixture bottle.

[popper]

Last big batch I did failed due to the residue. I don't save any of the 'cleaned out' stuff, it appears to remain hard. Old L. green & powder gold the same. I do maybe 2 batches a year for pistol.

[TexasGrunt]

I wish we could get a nice blue in Hi-Tek.

[Ausglock]

I wish we could get a nice blue in Hi-Tek.


Ha... you and me, Both.

[Grmps]

Trev, what's the best way to remove the yellow off gassing buildup from the inside of the oven and fan?

[Ausglock]

I use spray on oven cleaner on the inside of the glass door.
I don't worry about the chamber or the fan.

[KrakenFan69]

OK. I've been looking through the post but over 400 pages make it hard. My Gun Metal is coming out green. I've had some batches that were more Gun Metal but the last couple of batches were damn near the same as the Zombie Green i just picked up. Any obvious things I'm missing?

Thanks,

Kraken Fan #69

[Ausglock]

over baking. The resin is causing it to yellow, thus turning green.

[HI-TEK]

OK. I've been looking through the post but over 400 pages make it hard. My Gun Metal is coming out green. I've had some batches that were more Gun Metal but the last couple of batches were damn near the same as the Zombie Green i just picked up. Any obvious things I'm missing?

Thanks,

Kraken Fan #69

Please advise temperature of Oven temperature of alloy and how long it is being baked. Is oven fan forced?
Gunmetal does not develop full colour until it reaches at least 180C and held there or above for another 3-4 minutes.
Generally under cooking can be various shades of Green
Over cooking is black.

[KrakenFan69]

Small convection oven set to 400F (not verified) Cook time has varied from 15-20 minutes.

Kraken Fan #69

[HI-TEK]

Small convection oven set to 400F (not verified) Cook time has varied from 15-20 minutes.

Kraken Fan #69


Well, you may have explained your problem.
It seems your oven may be not adequate with heating and temperature control.
The mere fact that you set knob to 200C does not guarantee that your product temperature is 200C, and load is at same temperature. If you have no air circulation fan, this may make things worse.

[dikman]

Kraken, I was having the same problem. I'm using a PID to control the oven, so was pretty confidant regarding temps. When cooked simultaneously alongside Zombie Green and Bronze all samples passed the tests (and fired ok) but the Gunmetal was green. I was perplexed, but after discussing it with Trev he suggested raising my cooking temp. as the gunmetal is a bit different to other colours. I went up to just under 250 C, same time (between 10 - 12 mins) and that worked. I now have two colours for the price of one :lol: - if I want green I cook at "normal" temp (200 C), if I want Gunmetal (almost black) I cook at 250 C.

Bear in mind that my oven is NOT fan-forced, but I have found through experimenting that it's consistent as long as I only use the centre shelf (where the PID sensor is). My experience, for what it's worth.

[KrakenFan69]

Thanks guys, I'll try it at a higher setting. I was confused as I have had batches that did come out more of a Gun Metal color however they always had a bit of a green tint and my Zombie Green works like a charm all at the same temp. I'll play around and see what I can get to work. Can anyone tell me if the Cherry Red is as easy to use as the Zombie Green? It's my next color purchase!

Cheers,

Kraken Fan #69

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

The GunMetal is the most temperamental color. The Black Cherry is easy like the ZG.

[Grmps]

KrakenFan, Beg, buy, borrow or steal a couple basic oven thermometers and set them in the middle of the shelf you will be baking on. Keep adjusting the oven temperature until the thermometers read 400 (or 200C you didn't say where your were). Note or mark the dial where that setting is then try baking you boolits for 12 min in a preheated oven.

[TonyN]

I put a PID on my oven and love it. I bake for 12 min. By the way. I have 6 colors and have Black Cherry. Its prob my least favorite. I like Kryptonite green bronze 500 and bronze 502 the most. The gold ones like old gold and gold 1053 are also in my least favorite colors. To each there own!!

[Gremlin460]

@ 1028fps I cant bloody tell what colour they are!!





Ps Trev, Pete said he will take those pills off your hands, PM bank details and I will set him up on Sat when I go down to the range. Mike

[TonyN]

Some people like certain colors....

[Shingle]

Candy apple red sucks I can't get it to stick to boolits. This is only color I have ever had this issue with.

[Shingle]

All mine have always been weird looking green/blue color, coverage and adhesion are excellent thought that was the way it was supposed to be.

[Avenger442]

Some of us do this thing for the colors. And some of us for the lube. Some for both. To each his own. My favorite color is the one that does 2000 FPS one inch groups at 100 yards with no lead in my barrel. That is until Joe gets the Orange and Blue working.

My Granddaughter and her boy friend were with me at the range with about 40 rounds of .308 Hi Tek Gold 1035 loaded with 41.5 grains of H4895 and 20 rounds of jacketed Winchester this week end. The lead was 15 BHN. No lead in the barrel. We were shooting off hand and she out shot both her boy friend and me on the targets. I need more practice!!!! Joe, she really likes your Hi Tek bullets. They shot the 45-70, a little, trying to hit one of those exploding targets. He finally hit it using the iron sights with the last round. I'm thinking we had it a little too far out for off hand. It was only about 2 1/2" across. I might get around to posting some photos.

I got to the range the day before with the 45-70. Using Hi Tek coated Black 1035 doing some load testing. These twenty loads were shot off of a lead sled heavily weighted. I can't shoot that many 45-70 without having a sore shoulder in the morning without the lead sled. I'll have to say they grouped as good as the Hornady I sited in the rifle with. I also shot about twenty rounds of .308 Hi Tek Gold 1035 with two types of gas checks and BHNs (12 and 15). I've made some aluminum checks and was wondering if they were as good as the Hornady copper check. Test came out good with groups almost identical. And, of course, no lead in the barrels.



Shingle
I must have missed reading something in your posts. Is the Candy Apple Red coming out green/blue or is it another color that is coming out green/blue?

It is strange that the Candy Apple Red is not sticking if any other color applied to the same boolits in the same way is performing well? Maybe some photos of what you are talking about would help diagnose(the CA Red and the other color).


I love photos:
192558

[Grmps]

I love candy apple red, works great.--Adhesion problems are usually caused by not drying the coating long enough or using to much coating. After you think the coating is completely dry, set the pan of bullets your going to bake on some spacers (I use and old oven rack) on top of the counter top convection oven for 12 min to pre-warm and insure complete drying. With the metallic colors you have to be sure the coating is well mixed, the metallic's fall out of solution quickly. I put several bullets in the container to act as agitators, as soo as the solution is well mixed I like to use a 20 mil syringe, suck out 20 mil of solution, squirt it back , suck out another 20 mil then squirt back all but what I will need.( I use 8 mil for 3.3kg in my coating machine (like a small 2 gallon cement mixer).
When initially mixing you solution, you need to let it sit at least 1/2 hour after completely agitating it to let it absorb/bond with the acetone.
Make sure your oven is reaching 400 degrees.the economical way is to use a couple of cheap oven thermometers set in the middle of the shelf your baking on, adjust the oven temp setting until the thermometers reach 400. Mark or note the temperature setting required to be at 400. A PID is the optimum way to go but the thermometer method does work. Non convection ovens work but only for very small batches.

[ioon44]

For me the Candy Apple Red is one of the easier colors to use.
There seems to be a general problem of when is the first coat completely dry and ready to bake. I find that drying the first coat at 100 deg F to 140 deg F for 30 min insures the coating is completely dry.
On a clear 70 deg F sunny day laying my trays on a dark red deck the temperature will reach 140 deg F in less than 30 min, I check this with a surface thermometer laying on the bullets.

It would be nice if we could establish what the minimum time / temperature is required to dry the coating.

[AbitNutz]

I've really drank the Koolaid regarding Hi-Tek bullet coating. It has put most of my lubrisiers into mothballs. I'm transitioning to using it on all my bullets.

What about cleaning the Hi-Tek residue out of the barrel? I use Ed's Red without the acetone because I don't shoot shotgun and have not needed to remove plastic residue.

Should I add the acetone back into the Ed's Red formula when dealing with Hi-Tek? This is my assumption that Hi-Tek is some sort of polymer that acetone may deal with better. I'm really not interested in switching off Ed's Red but I'm more than willing to modify the formula to suit.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Properly cured Hi-Tek does not leave a stubborn residue in the barrel that does come out with normal cleaning practices.
You can try a bit of acetone on a patch/brush and see if that helps but it is unlike to have much effect on it.

How much fouling are we talking about?
You may want to confirm your curing process and check them for wipe off.

[Ausglock]

There is Zero hitek coating left in the barrel if the curing is correct.....ZERO !!!!!!

I can fire 1000's of rounds without cleaning the barrel of my Glock17. One pass of the boresnake and it is shiny clean.

[AbitNutz]

I'm not implying that I have excessive residue at all, I don't. But anything fired down a barrel will leave some trace of itself. I'm just looking to get it as clean as I can.

I'm happy with Ed's Red performance in general but if there is some additive that may be particularly useful in regards to Hi-Tek's bullet coating, that would be terrific.

I will add acetone back into it, if only because it's the only thing I know that may have some value...I'm shooting in the dark here (pun intended) as to what may be worthwhile.

[AbitNutz]

I've started shooting large caliber rifle rounds that I'm coating...like 450 Nitro Express. 480gr at 1600fps. There's a great deal of bearing surface and the velocity is pretty stiff.

The Hi-Tek coating works great, but even jacketed bullets leave copper in the bore...no?

[Avenger442]

AbitNutz

My experience has been if we do what we are supposed to do, when applying the coating, anything left in the barrel will clean out with a couple of wet patches and a couple of dry with a cleaner that will remove powder residue. And yes jacketed will leave some in the barrel. If I remember right Joe shared that some guys in Australia coat their jacketed bullets with Hi Tek in order to keep accuracy longer between cleaning. I understand that it also makes them slicker so they go faster?

I shoot .223, .308, .44 mag and 45-70 in rifle with Hi Tek. Does that 450 NE hurt your shoulder as much as my 45-70 hurts mine after a box of loads?

You know that the pros shoot a fouling shot before shooting for accuracy. They don't shoot clean barrels. So I've stopped cleaning so often. In fact I might not clean until after a couple of trips to the range. I haven't noticed any change in accuracy.

[Drew P]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV9QvEm1nFc

apparently over cleaning is a big no-no in precision shooting. What Rex shows is a basicall a curve form clean to very copper fouled and that tightest groups exist in the middle which seems to be around 30 or more shots in.

Now, this leads me to wonder how coated bullets figure into this?

[Avenger442]

DrewP
My most accurate shots yet with Hi Tek in .308 and a dirty barrel 100 yards five shots. Inch and a half groups repeatable with 2" groups just about every time.
192690

Just thought I would add this target.
192704

[dikman]

My thoughts are if you're worried about traces of residue run a bronze/brass or bristle brush through, that should dislodge anything short of copper fouling. I also use Ed's Red, but without the acetone as the last thing I want is acetone attacking the nice finish on some of my stocks.

[Michael J. Spangler]

DrewP
My most accurate shots yet with Hi Tek in .308 and a dirty barrel 100 yards five shots. Inch and a half groups repeatable with 2" groups just about every time.
192690

Just thought I would add this target.
192704

nice shots! Alloy and loads? Velocity? Thanks man!

[Avenger442]

Understand that the above are shot off of a rest that more or less takes my bad marksmanship out of the picture. Done intentionally so that the load is the only thing I'm testing.

You can see the loads and powder in the second photo. Bhn of the lead is 15-17. Haven't consulted my load log so I'm going from memory here but alloys are COWW with 7% mag shot 2% tin water dropped and COWW with 10% lino and 2% tin. Load in the top photo is 41 or 41.5 gn H4895. All Remington cases with CCI primer. As to velocity, I would have to guess since I don't have a crono. I would say between 2200 and 2700 fps. I think it was Popper that told me I might be a bit low on those velocities. I have found, what most have, that the fastest isn't the most accurate with my gun.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Understand that the above are shot off of a rest that more or less takes my bad marksmanship out of the picture. Done intentionally so that the load is the only thing I'm testing.

You can see the loads and powder in the second photo. Bhn of the lead is 15-17. Haven't consulted my load log so I'm going from memory here but alloys are COWW with 7% mag shot 2% tin water dropped and COWW with 10% lino and 2% tin. Load in the top photo is 41 or 41.5 gn H4895. All Remington cases with CCI primer. As to velocity, I would have to guess since I don't have a crono. I would say between 2200 and 2700 fps. I think it was Popper that told me I might be a bit low on those velocities. I have found, what most have, that the fastest isn't the most accurate with my gun.

awesome info thank you.
What % tin and antimony do you think that worked out to be? Water dropped?
what twist is the rifling? Thanks again!

[Avenger442]

Twist rate says 10 measures just a little over. I'll let you do the calculation on the alloy. My head hurts and I'm a bit frustrated with math at the moment. I just finished filling out my taxes.

Linotype 4% tin 12% antimony 84% lead
Mag Shot 4% tin 1.25% antimony 94,8% lead
COWW 0.5% tin 3% antimony 0.25 arsenic 96.3% lead

Then add 2% tin.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Thanks man! I'll have to run that through the calculator later.
Trying to get some ideas of what will work in the blackout.

[Lakehouse2012]

Is anybody using silicone baking mat to cook them?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Lakehouse2012]

This is my first batch, its supposed to be candy apple red. My gut says oven too hot?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170409/f26cc28315022eea856917e3553ee65b.jpg

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[HI-TEK]

This is my first batch, its supposed to be candy apple red. My gut says oven too hot?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170409/f26cc28315022eea856917e3553ee65b.jpg

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Your gut feeling is 100% correct. It may be a combination of high temperature and also too long baking at that temperature.

[Grmps]

Is anybody using silicone baking mat to cook them?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


You don't want a mat, we use perforated baking trays (or wire mesh), most people use a convection oven for even heat distribution. The holes/mesh help with the heat distribution.

[Avenger442]

I don't know if you can get any silicone transfer from using that baking mat but Joe has advised no silicone in your baking area. It can cause adhesion problems.

[Lakehouse2012]

I don't know if you can get any silicone transfer from using that baking mat but Joe has advised no silicone in your baking area. It can cause adhesion problems.
Oops..... well ive run about 1000 9mm now and while nothing has stuck, ive been too high on heat or too long for every batch. Guess the next batch will be baked in the basket. [emoji2]

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[HI-TEK]

Oops..... well ive run about 1000 9mm now and while nothing has stuck, ive been too high on heat or too long for every batch. Guess the next batch will be baked in the basket. [emoji2]

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Just a couple of comments
1. Over cooking does not cause sticking problems, only changes of colour.
2. Sticking problems, are I'm majority, caused by using too much coating mixture on first coat, the not having dried it adequately. (To test correct dryness, only bake a few to test. If few that is baked fail smash test or peel off, dry the rest longer even if warm air drying is used. Then, try to bake a few more, and repeat, until it passes smash test OK)
3 If you were using a new Silicone mat, there is possibility of some volatile Silicone coming off with heat in oven. With Silicone contaminant, it seems to interfere with adhesion if cast were contaminated BEFORE coating.

[benellinut]

Oops..... well ive run about 1000 9mm now and while nothing has stuck, ive been too high on heat or too long for every batch. Guess the next batch will be baked in the basket. [emoji2]

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(ETA: Hi-Tek was posting at the same time I was, go with what ever he says!) I would think if they pass the smash and wipe tests your fine. I know it's not what you were shooting for but I like that color! Cool, you can get more then one color from the same mix LoL.

Are those 9mm in your photo above? If they are they look heavy, what gr are they?

[Lakehouse2012]

Just a couple of comments
1. Over cooking does not cause sticking problems, only changes of colour.
2. Sticking problems, are I'm majority, caused by using too much coating mixture on first coat, the not having dried it adequately. (To test correct dryness, only bake a few to test. If few that is baked fail smash test or peel off, dry the rest longer even if warm air drying is used. Then, try to bake a few more, and repeat, until it passes smash test OK)
3 If you were using a new Silicone mat, there is possibility of some volatile Silicone coming off with heat in oven. With Silicone contaminant, it seems to interfere with adhesion if cast were contaminated BEFORE coating.
Great comments Sir, these are items i will keep an eye on as i continue. So far the smash test is good and other than color burned, i am good to start loading. I figure that i can dial in heat/time over the longer term. Im not trying to win a beauty contest. I moved to your product, purely for performance. Was tired of heavy single coats and holes from the wire basket from PC.

Left side of pic was where i started, right is starting to retain color.... lolhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170409/f64d8ed5324c829b3db0b382d93305f3.jpg

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[Lakehouse2012]

(ETA: Hi-Tek was posting at the same time I was, go with what ever he says!) I would think if they pass the smash and wipe tests your fine. I know it's not what you were shooting for but I like that color! Cool, you can get more then one color from the same mix LoL.

Are those 9mm in your photo above? If they are they look heavy, what gr are they?
Thanks [emoji2] these are 158 gn which ill size to a large bore 9mm of .357, and then also for my 357 which i size to .358.

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[Lakehouse2012]

When is the big mess on my bench coming?.... I had been all worried about splattering and bench mess and so far nothing... LOL

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[benellinut]

A clean work bench is one that sees little work. Mines a mess and that's the excuse I use LoL.

[Ausglock]

I have never had good results with micro groove bullets (tumble lube bullets).... just saying..

[Avenger442]

Trevor
Are you talking about the coating of tumble lube bullets and not having good results with the coating process? Just trying to clarify.

[Ausglock]

They coat fine, but shoot bloody terrible.
I tried the 45 230Rn TL and the 9mm 125rnTL. both were horrible and leaded badly.

[Lakehouse2012]

I shot 50 of the 124 micro groove that i covered yesterday and the accuracy was good and there is no lead in my bore. FWIW

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[Avenger442]

I have shot some .308 and .45 ACP in the tumble lube with no leading problems. Accuracy in the .308 was OK. I didn't finish the load testing and got side tracked with something else on this bullet. Can't say much about the accuracy of the 45s. They were shot off hand at a 25 yard target. And I'm not the best shot in the world. It might be the three coats that is the difference in leading? I can see how there would be more pressure on the lead with small ridges riding the lands.

[Lakehouse2012]

I have shot some .308 and .45 ACP in the tumble lube with no leading problems. Accuracy in the .308 was OK. I didn't finish the load testing and got side tracked with something else on this bullet. Can't say much about the accuracy of the 45s. They were shot off hand at a 25 yard target. And I'm not the best shot in the world. It might be the three coats that is the difference in leading? I can see how there would be more pressure on the lead with small ridges riding the lands.
That may be the key, 3 or more coats. I made one mistake though which was sizing after coating. I saw a few spots get silver after sizing. Next time i will do a final coat after sizing...

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[Redwoode]

I almost always size after final coat with no issues.

[Avenger442]

I have done it after 1st coat and after 3rd coat with no issues. I have a gun that seems to like the exact size of my sizing die. Which is a Lee push through that is slightly larger than it says it is.

[Gremlin460]

I am with Redwoode on this, I always resize after last coat.


I almost always size after final coat with no issues.

[Ausglock]

Flat base bullets get sized after the first coat, then second coat gets applied.
Bevel base bullets get sized after second coat.

[Redwoode]

All my casts are bevel base.

[TonyN]

For you guys that cost with 3 coats do you do all 3 coats with 100ml acetone 20 grams powder for all 3 coats? 2 coats I have most of the projectiles covered but some of the rings that touch the barrel don't get totally covered.

[fivel_976]

I am thinking about converting to hi Tek but have a few ? What is the cheapest place to order it from and is the powder better deal cuz it's not hazmat? Does anyone have pictures of what each color looks like when finished? Is there different brands of Hi tek?

[fivel_976]

Also can I size my bullet before putting on any coating?

[slide]

Order from Donnie at Hi-performance bullet coatings. Powder is cheaper because of no haz-mat but some people prefer the liquid. No sizing before coating. Won't stick. A word of caution. Verify your oven temp is right,don't go by the dial. Weigh your bullets. Weigh your powder, and measure your acetone. Study the instructions. go back and read all the posts on this thread you can. Donnie has colors on his website. Take your time and don't overthink it. Too many guys fail because they don't pay attention to the details. Lots of help here,just ask.

[Grmps]

http://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/ sells the Hi-Tek, Powder is cheaper to ship and easier to mix with the same results. It is not recommended to size before the first coat, sizing "closes the pours. slicks up the lead and inhibits good adhesion. It is also recommended to do a thinner first coat. After the first coat is baked and cooled then size away.

[fivel_976]

The color pallet on the order form doesn't really show the true color tho

[fivel_976]

That also don't list how many pounds of lead each size powder can coat

[slide]

Give Donnie a call,he will answer your questions.

[fivel_976]

Anyone got a coupon code for that site?

[Grmps]

Never seen a coupon
193030193031

[Ausglock]

FFS What the hell is a coupon?
There is 1 brand of HITEK. It is HITEK.
How do you know the colours on the website are not correct if you haven't seen the colours in real life?
No matter what powder is used, they all will coat the same amount of alloy if mixed the same ratio.

Your parents weren't Kiwi were they??

[Lakehouse2012]

I ordered 3, 7oz powders, and ive coated (not perfectly) 1800 9mm boolits with maybe 1/3 of an ounce of powder. I think there is 8000-10000 boolits in 1 7oz jar.

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[wlkjr]

I ordered 3, 7oz powders, and ive coated (not perfectly) 1800 9mm boolits with maybe 1/3 of an ounce of powder. I think there is 8000-10000 boolits in 1 7oz jar.

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Be a long time before you use all that up.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

That also don't list how many pounds of lead each size powder can coat

A 3.5 oz (100 gram) jar of Hi-Tek will make 500 ML of coating when mixed at the recommended ratio of 20 grams (308 grains) of powder to 100 ML (3.4 oz) of solvent (Acetone or MEK)
Applied at the recommended rate of 6 ml per 5.5 lbs of bullets per coat, you should be able to coat approx. 228 lbs of bullets with 2 coats.
I strongly suggest that you weigh the powder out and don't use a volume type measure like a spoon, etc. Different colors of Hi-Tek have different densities and volume measuring can throw off the ratio's. A jewelers type scale works perfectly for this. You could also use a powder scale.

There are no coupon codes at this time.

[HI-TEK]

A 3.5 oz (100 gram) jar of Hi-Tek will make 500 ML of coating when mixed at the recommended ratio of 20 grams of powder to 100 ML of solvent (Acetone or MEK)
Applied at the recommended rate of 6 ml per 5.5 lbs of bullets per coat, you should be able to coat approx. 228 lbs of bullets with 2 coats.
I strongly suggest that you weigh the powder out and don't use a volume type measure like a spoon, etc. Different colors of Hi-Tek have different densities and volume measuring can throw off the ratio's. A jewelers type scale works perfectly for this. You could also use a powder scale.

There are no coupon codes at this time.

With Ausglocks reported usages, a 500ml of 20g/100ml mixture, has coated around 10,500 projectiles with two coats. Using two coats seems to produce about an average of around 2 thou increase in size.

[fivel_976]

Is it better to bake on a cookie sheet or on some type of screen? Got home and looked I got 1400 40s I casted last year all sized already was gunna dry tumble PC them should I just remelt them or will the hi tek stick to the smooth surface?

[wlkjr]

Worth a try. You have nothing to lose and can always remelt them if they don't work. I'd make a tray or two out of 1/4" hardware cloth.

[HI-TEK]

Is it better to bake on a cookie sheet or on some type of screen? Got home and looked I got 1400 40s I casted last year all sized already was gunna dry tumble PC them should I just remelt them or will the hi tek stick to the smooth surface?

If these are sized with some sort of lube, then forget about using Hi-Tek coating on them Unfortunately it is a re-melt job if you have other lubes on cast alloy. In majority of cases, the coating will just not stick, and even with solvent washing the lubes cannot be totally removed, and will cause coating problems.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Is it better to bake on a cookie sheet or on some type of screen? Got home and looked I got 1400 40s I casted last year all sized already was gunna dry tumble PC them should I just remelt them or will the hi tek stick to the smooth surface?

A wire mesh screen is best for Hi-Tek as it allows for better airflow around the bullets.
I get mixed reports from people who have coated sized bullets, some report no adhesion issues and some do.
Generally it is not recommended to apply Hi-Tek over pre sized bullets and certainly not over previously lubed bullets.

[fivel_976]

None of my bullets get lubed just shoved through a Lee sizer only reason I sized then is once powder coated 2 times there to hard to size. IV never seen this hardware mesh where do I buy it and how thick is it I can weld an angle iron frame at work can it sit in it or does it need to be tacked in?

[fivel_976]

Sorry for all the question I just want to get it right the first time as I spent a lot of money on a harbor freight compresser and PC gun for it all to work good for a week or so then have better results flicking powder at my bullets

[wlkjr]

Some people call it rabbit wire as it is used for the bottom of a rabbit cage. Just ask for hardware cloth at almost any building supply or hardware store. I cut mine and folded so the sides would be about 1.25 tall. I folded twice so the barbs would be turned down and used 12ga. copper wire to hold the corners together. Here is a pic attached.193070

[Redwoode]

I've found 1/4" mesh hardware cloth at Menards, Lowes and Rural King.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=fivel_976;4015986]None of my bullets get lubed just shoved through a Lee sizer only reason I sized then is once powder coated 2 times there to hard to size.

If you have sized your cast without using any lubes, all you need to do is try to coat some and see how you go. If coating bonds, all is well. If not then re-melt and re-cast.
Sizing is done after you coat twice with Hi-Tek. If you have a hard alloy, Aqualube 5000 will certainly help reduce sizing load and allow coated cast to size much more easily.

Can you please tell us what you mean by "powder coated"? If you are using powder coating (not Hi-Tek) I can imagine that sizing will be very difficult.
I hope that you are not using Hi-Tek as a powder coat.
Hi-Tek is definitely not supposed to be used as a powder coat.
Hi-Tek powdered versions, are used after it is made up as liquid coatings using solvent Acetone.

[dikman]

"Your parents weren't Kiwi were they??"

:lol:

[fivel_976]

No I was powder coating with harber fright stuff. Is that wire mesh in the picture better then a metal window screen and where can I get purple color like that?

[HI-TEK]

No I was powder coating with harber fright stuff. Is that wire mesh in the picture better then a metal window screen and where can I get purple color like that?

You can get supplies from Donnie at Hi-Performance Bullet coatings, in US. He posted at number 8604. Donnie should have stocks you need.

[slide]

Some of the colors will change when you bake them. Hi-tek does not have all the colors of the rainbow but it is a product that works,has been safety tested,and has been in use for years in Australia.

[HI-TEK]

Some of the colors will change when you bake them. Hi-tek does not have all the colors of the rainbow but it is a product that works,has been safety tested,and has been in use for years in Australia.

Slide, you are right. I think we stopped making various colours after we got to about 16-18.
I have made a rod for my own back, trying to please a never ending need for people wanting an individual colour for themselves.

With regards to safety testing, some years ago, controlled tests done at an indoor shooting range, an independent environmental testing company, measured the Hi-Tek coatings for atomised Lead emission versus Copper plated ammo.
Results were, that atomised emission levels produced with Hi-Tek coating, were comparable to Copper Plated ammo, and, results were well inside health regulations that met Australian and US regulations. As far as I know, there is no other lube or coating that can meet these results.
Results below
LEAD EMISSION RESULTS LeadLevels AUST. WORKSAFE LIMIT ACGIH LIMIT
CopperPlated Projectiles 0.84 ug/M3 150ug/Cubic Metre 50ug/ Cubic Metre
HI-TEK-LUBESUPERCOAT 2.56 ug/ M3 150ug/Cubic Metre 50ug/Cubic Metre
(Old Gold Metallic)

[TexasGrunt]

Slide, you are right. I think we stopped making various colours after we got to about 16-18.
I have made a rod for my own back, trying to please a never ending need for people wanting an individual colour for themselves.

With regards to safety testing, some years ago, controlled tests done at an indoor shooting range, an independent environmental testing company, measured the Hi-Tek coatings for atomised Lead emission versus Copper plated ammo.
Results were, that atomised emission levels produced with Hi-Tek coating, were comparable to Copper Plated ammo, and, results were well inside health regulations that met Australian and US regulations. As far as I know, there is no other lube or coating that can meet these results.
Results below
LEAD EMISSION RESULTS LeadLevels AUST. WORKSAFE LIMIT ACGIH LIMIT
CopperPlated Projectiles 0.84 ug/M3 150ug/Cubic Metre 50ug/ Cubic Metre
HI-TEK-LUBESUPERCOAT 2.56 ug/ M3 150ug/Cubic Metre 50ug/Cubic Metre
(Old Gold Metallic)

How come we only get 12 colors here in the US?

[fivel_976]

Ok I ordered 3.5 ounce in black, black Cherry, gold, and zombie green. If anyone knows how to get blue or purple please let me know

[slide]

They have a dark blue but it is a tempermental rascal. Don't get me wrong, it works but the color is very dark. Joe has been working really hard trying to get new colors. I can't imagine the **** he has been through. I have played around mixing colors but it changed when baked. Follow the instructions and you will be ok. One thing! Make sure you buy good quality acetone. No fingernail polish remover.

[fivel_976]

Buying every thing I need today went to Walmart seen the squeeze bottles for 97cents or masion jars for about the same price dose anyone use these I'd guess thay would keep the mix from going bad

[Lakehouse2012]

The dollar tree had 3 for a buck, small water bottles that held more than 1 unit of powder and acetone. Its kept fresh for several days now.

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[slide]

People use all kinds of containers. One thing you can do is wrap the threads on those bottles with teflon tape. It will keep the solution from coming out when you shake. Listen guys, the one thing I can tell you is this, focus on that first coat. Get it right and most of the battle is won. If it is not right don't put on another coat thinking that will fix it. Put everything out of your mind but that first coat. Joe has a great idea. Weigh your bullets,powder,measure your acetone. When you are ready to bake just do a few,say 10. Check those and if they are right bake the rest. If not you may need to adjust your temp,drying time. Post here and someone will help you. Don't bake the whole batch at one time. What I do,weigh 2500 grams of bullets, put 1/2 tablespoon ( Ausglock is cringing right now). 1/2 tablespoon is 6 mils. If you don't have a scale invest in one. I bought mine at wal-mart for 18 dollars. Good luck! Almost forgot,oven temp.While you are at wal-mart grab a 20 dollar multi-meter that measures temp. Put the k sensor in the oven,or if you are lucky enough to have a pid,go get em!

[HI-TEK]

How come we only get 12 colors here in the US?

Texas Grunt
Well, it is an easy answer. We supply what is wanted. If there are no orders for other colours why would we send them to US? There has to be a demand, adequate to satisfy importer, to spend the moneys to get stocks.

[slide]

Joe, is there a certain amount we would have to order. Maybe pay Donnie for it before it can be ordered? That way he wouldn't get stiffed.

[HI-TEK]

Joe, is there a certain amount we would have to order. Maybe pay Donnie for it before it can be ordered? That way he wouldn't get stiffed.

Reasonable question. It simply becomes economics. Each carton contains about 25lbs of powder. If buyers take small packs of a few ounces, that same carton will last may be a couple of years or even longer. It then becomes a decision as if it is practical to even buy one carton, and store it for such long periods.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

How come we only get 12 colors here in the US?

I have an order in the works as I type this. If there is a color you or anyone else would like to try, let me or Joe know and we'll see if I can squeeze it in.
Some colors are just not possible in the Hi-Tek system. I know Joe puts a lot of effort in trying to satisfy the many requests he gets.

[slide]

What colors are we talking about? What ones don't we have?

[TexasGrunt]

Yeah a complete image of all available colors would be nice.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

What colors are we talking about? What ones don't we have?

We would have to get some input from Joe on that one.

Some colors are variations of an existing color for example in Gold there is Old Gold, Gold 1035, Sunny Gold, etc.

[slide]

OK Hope we are not putting Joe to any trouble. Donnie, the biggest you sell is a 15 ounce container? I am sure the commercial guys buy it in bigger batches.

[Ausglock]

There are a few that were never named.
They worked, but looked like Schite.

[slide]

You don't realize it, you just named them!

[Avenger442]

Be careful....you know what happened with the DD Red. :bigsmyl2:

Joe
I hope you aren't thinking I'm trying to put pressure on you when I bring up the Auburn Orange and Blue. If you find a way to make it I'll buy it but no pressure intended. I mean, after all, for man some things are just not possible.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

OK Hope we are not putting Joe to any trouble. Donnie, the biggest you sell is a 15 ounce container? I am sure the commercial guys buy it in bigger batches.


From 15 oz it jumps to a 1 kg bag $75/kg

[HI-TEK]

Be careful....you know what happened with the DD Red. :bigsmyl2:

Joe
I hope you aren't thinking I'm trying to put pressure on you when I bring up the Auburn Orange and Blue. If you find a way to make it I'll buy it but no pressure intended. I mean, after all, for man some things are just not possible.

Avenger
These are some colours not made commercially as yet.
Blush Copper, (Red blush metallic type), Blush Chocolate, a brown with red tinge, Desert Tan, or desert Sand yellow tan colour, Red Tinatural, strange colour, Tan olive, which looks like olive green with a tan appearance, Tinatural, yellowish film, Blue 818V2, a very dark blue with tinge of green, 818/305 (no Name) very dark Blue/Green metallic, Black Pearl Mark 1version, a Pearlescent black.
I do not know how to post the pictures of coated projectiles with these colours.
We have had many more, but Ausglock after testing, not liking any simply told me that the colours were no good and no pictures were taken. Many, many, we were trying to make is a Blue, which ended up every colour except Blue.

[Ausglock]

Some were so bad, I put 2 coats of black over them.
Mind you... they all shot fine.
Just looked bloody horrible.

[BABore]

Gold 1035 baked at 450F for 60 minutes and water dropped after final coat.

A nice milk chocolate brown.

[HI-TEK]

Gold 1035 baked at 450F for 60 minutes and water dropped after final coat.

A nice milk chocolate brown.


Looks like you invented a new colour. Now, just to reproduce it....

[Ausglock]

Bake for an hour??
Well...


That with fukc your production rate....

[TexasGrunt]

Avenger
These are some colours not made commercially as yet.
Blush Copper, (Red blush metallic type), Blush Chocolate, a brown with red tinge, Desert Tan, or desert Sand yellow tan colour, Red Tinatural, strange colour, Tan olive, which looks like olive green with a tan appearance, Tinatural, yellowish film, Blue 818V2, a very dark blue with tinge of green, 818/305 (no Name) very dark Blue/Green metallic, Black Pearl Mark 1version, a Pearlescent black.
I do not know how to post the pictures of coated projectiles with these colours.
We have had many more, but Ausglock after testing, not liking any simply told me that the colours were no good and no pictures were taken. Many, many, we were trying to make is a Blue, which ended up every colour except Blue.

Have the pictures on your computer.

Click the third little icon from the right on the toolbar at the top of the edit window. The insert image window will pop up. Click on the From Computer tab. Click on Choose File. That will open up a file window. Go to the first image and click on it, select open. Now UPLOAD the file.

That uploads one image to the forum.

Or you can PM me for my email, send them to me and I'll do the heavy lifting.

[BABore]

Bake for an hour??
Well...

That with fukc your production rate....

I wasn't after normal production. I used a balanced tin - antimony alloy with 0.2% copper for increased toughness. Two coats of 1035 were applied and baked normally. A third coat was applied and baked at the time/temp mentioned above so I could water drop them. A 400 F temp is not high enough to heat treat a lead alloy. It does do a great job annealing though. The finished boolits, a chocolate brown, tested out at 24 bhn after 2 weeks. They were sized, checked, and lubed with regular lube. They were shot at full velocity in the 30'06, 308, 7mm-08, and 375 H&H. The goal of using your HTC was to eliminate the grey bbl wash at HV. It did just that.

In regards to the heat treat temperature, I ran a series of tests 10-15 years ago using WW alloy. I ran batches of boolits through my oven in 25 F increments. Started at 375 F and topped out at the slump point. Boolits were water dropped directly from the oven. Hardness was tested at 1 week an 3 weeks. 425 F was where hardness began to ramp up. 450 F was where it peaked. I also ran some annealing tests on fully heat treated boolits. 400 F was where they were fully annealed.

[HI-TEK]

I hope that I got this right193138193139193140193141193144193143193146193 147193145

[Avenger442]

Joe
I know you have been trying to make a medium blue blue for a while and I appreciate your effort. Some of those colors look interesting. And agree with Trevor on a couple of them. One of them, second row far left, reminds me of the color of a friends car in High School. We called it Woodall ....... green. His name was Woodall.

BABore
Appreciate you sharing the info. From my experience your right about the annealing but not heat treated at 400 F. And I'm going to try, with Popper's help, adding some copper to alloy today. It looks like what I would like to use in a hollow point that I have been wanting to cast. Need the extra tough to hold the tip together.

Anyway, did you try running any through the rifles with just the HiTek coating and no traditional lube?

"Experimentation" ain't it great!

[BABore]

I did, but they were WD from a 425 F oven with only 10 minutes cook time. Not a fair test to be sure. Didn't harden enough and left lead wash in the bbl. You can get accuracy with some wash in the bbl, but the fouling will eventually bust you.

[TexasGrunt]

That Tan Olive and Blush Copper look pretty good.

[HI-TEK]

A couple of other new colours not made commercially but I have ingredients.
193182193183193184

[Ausglock]

Orange K64 is what I would call burnt Orange.
Yellow K151 is more Tan than Yellow.
The Green 730N has to be mixed 20gms to 150mls as it was so intense. A very nice Dark green.

[Kitika]

I like that green! I think I need some more colours now.

[Ausglock]

I think you will find that it is Spartan's green, but in powder.
Probably not available in OZ.

[TexasGrunt]

I want that GREEN! That's one we should have here in the US!

That orange is really nice too.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

I want that GREEN! That's one we should have here in the US!

That orange is really nice too.

I will be adding some of the Orange and Green to the current order if possible.

[Redwoode]

I like that dark green too. It all solid or some metallic as well?

[TonyN]

For you guys that coat with 3 coats do you coat all 3 coats at 100 ML acetone to 20 grams powder or do you thin the last coat? If you do what ML do you coat the 3rd batch at? If using the 100ML 20 grams for 3 coats will it chip?

[TexasGrunt]

I will be adding some of the Orange and Green to the current order if possible.


AWESOME! I hope you can get it. I'll be buying it as soon as it shows up.

[Ausglock]

The Green 730N is non metallic. Neither is the orange.
I tried adding some Gold 1035 to the orange, but it went dark brown like a turd.

[benellinut]

Boy you guys opened a can o' worms offering to look into more colors....... Very nice of you but I think you'll regret it.....

Note my sig line, true words. LoL

[TonyN]

Hi-Tek or Ausglock i have a question
For you guys that coat with 3 coats do you coat all 3 coats at 100 ML acetone to 20 grams powder or do you thin the last coat? If you do what ML do you coat the 3rd batch at? If using the 100ML 20 grams for 3 coats will it chip?

[Ausglock]

Don't do 3 coats.
If I'm covering a horrible test colour, I'll do 2 extra coats of black still at 20gms to 100mls MEK.
So that will be 4 coats(2 test and 2 black)

[TonyN]

Will 3 coats at 100 ml 20 gram chip?

[AbitNutz]

Are you guys all this enamored over colors normally or am I missing something? I started with bronze and continued with bronze and will likely stay with bronze. I like bronze but if I didn't. I'm not sure it would matter...

Is there something about the different colors that I don't understand?

[fivel_976]

Got my powder today only bad things was the lid on the black was loose so everything in the package was covered in black powder

[Lakehouse2012]

Your post above reminds me that Joe should consider other containers with rounder bottom corners for the powder. 2 of mine shipped with stress fractures on corners and i could see near the impact are that moisture got in and coagulated in that area.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[TonyN]

My packages from Donny are packed very good with 0 problems

[Redwoode]

Same here. Never a problem.

[fivel_976]

Got my powder today only bad things was the lid on the black was loose so everything in the package was covered in black powder

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Your post above reminds me that Joe should consider other containers with rounder bottom corners for the powder. 2 of mine shipped with stress fractures on corners and i could see near the impact are that moisture got in and coagulated in that area.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Thanks for the feedback on the containers. Joe has nothing to do with the containers used as I receive the product in bulk and re-package it.
I have had pretty good luck with the clear jars I use for the last couple of years but this last bunch seems to be particularly fragile and I will be replacing them with a tougher version that should help it withstand the torture that many packages receive from the USPS.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Got my powder today only bad things was the lid on the black was loose so everything in the package was covered in black powder

PM sent

[Avenger442]

ABitNuts
Some of these guys and the ones on the PC side remind me of my wife and her affinity for Vera Bradley purses. When it comes to colors got to have every one.:kidding:

Tony

That mixture applied in the recommended amount to the recommended amount of bullets has not been a problem with three coats for me. If that first coat binds then the second, third, fourth and fifth if you want to coat that much will just bind to the previous coat. Obviously it's not a problem as Ausglock sometimes applies four coats to a bullet when covering some color he doesn't like. If they get too thick a coat built up it will flake off.

Gentlemen (and ladies too)

I'm going to tell you something that I have done that I do not recommend you do with this product. When I first started coating I had a a bunch of 308s that failed the smash test after three coats. Well I dumped them back in the plastic jar and set them aside, probably with the intent of remelting them at a later date. I put labels on my jars. But for some reason I didn't note on the label to remelt this batch. Well last year I got the jar out with some other 308s and loaded up some rounds to go to the range. I did about twenty out of that jar. But there was something picking at the back of my brain about those bullets. I started to look a little closer at the jar and there were flakes in the bottom. Then it dawned on me what I had done. I had twenty rounds loaded that had not passed the smash test. Two years is a long time for this brain to remember something. I pulled a couple out of the jar and, yep, they failed the test. I PMed a couple of people to see if I could find someone that had shot bullets when the coating had not passed the test. "NO" was the answer. After all, who wants to clean lead out of their barrel. So I decided to apply one of Ausglock's methods and just shoot them. No lead in the barrel. These were shot with 41 to 44gn of H4895 light crimp. Groups were comparable to ones out of the other jar. Again I'm not suggesting you do this.

[TexasGrunt]

Are you guys all this enamored over colors normally or am I missing something? I started with bronze and continued with bronze and will likely stay with bronze. I like bronze but if I didn't. I'm not sure it would matter...

Is there something about the different colors that I don't understand?

Different colors for different loads for one thing. I don't eat the same thing at every meal. Variety is nice. I've got four colors of Hi-Tek right now and around 20 powder colors.

[Ausglock]

Of all the colours I have here, I only use 2.
Kryptonite Green for everything I do.
K15 Black to cover any test colours.

I'm still discarding liquid and powdered coatings. I'm running out of storage room.

[Lakehouse2012]

While were on the topic of color.... this is supposed to be Candy Apple Red....?

It looks more like one of my wife's pink/purple lipsticks doesn't it? I better not get laughed at, at the range....[emoji27] https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170416/df78048044c4c898988cb7a86c56bc65.jpg

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[fivel_976]

I like that purple color

[benellinut]

While were on the topic of color.... this is supposed to be Candy Apple Red....?

It looks more like one of my wife's pink/purple lipsticks doesn't it? I better not get laughed at, at the range....[emoji27]

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Well now I see what you mean.....

193342

[bfuller14]

Lakehouse,
How did you come up with that color?
Looks great..

[Lakehouse2012]

Lakehouse,
How did you come up with that color?
Looks great..
LOL - it wasn't intentional... thats following directions for Candy apple red.

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[benellinut]

LOL - it wasn't intentional... thats following directions for Candy apple red.

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If anyone laughs just tell them getting shot in the *** with one will hurt just as much. ;)

[Ausglock]

Interesting.. I must try and replicate that colour.

[Lakehouse2012]

Could the color have differed because i used Acetone rather then MEK? BTW- i like the sense of humor on this thread! :)

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[Ausglock]

Nope. I use MEK and acetone when testing.
The Candy Apple red is nothing like what you have.
Maybe HITEK Joe had a brain fart or senior moment and sent the wrong stuff.
Would surprise me.....

Humour??? Aussies have the blackest Humour there is. We take the pisss out of everyone and every thing.

[HI-TEK]

Well now I see what you mean.....

193342


I also see. I do not have a colour like that.

Ausglock, I may be getting a bit dehydrated, as I have run out of old Kentucky Bourbon some time ago.

Lakehouse, My guess is, that mixture wasn't well mixed when taking amount to be used. That way you will get separation of various components that may produce unusual colour.

With violets types these are the pictures
193348

[Grmps]

G-Day Joe,
Guess the question is, can you replicate this colour? This is definitely a unique color.--marbled metallic purple:drinks:

[slide]

I have mixed candy apple red and the dark blue which made a purple like that until I baked it, and it went dark like the dark blue.

[slide]

I have mixed candy apple red and the dark blue which made a purple like that until I baked it, and it went dark like the dark blue. Did you stir the powder before getting your amount out of the jar?

[slide]

Messed up some way.

[fivel_976]

Having trouble with bullets having bare spots and hard time getting the hallow point colored even after 3 coats and suggestions

[fivel_976]

Also a side note thay have these spots on all 4 colors I have

[TexasGrunt]

Having trouble with bullets having bare spots and hard time getting the hallow point colored even after 3 coats and suggestions

Don't worry about the hollow point OR the lube groove. You want the BEARING surfaces covered. Nothing else matters.

[fivel_976]

Getting bare spots on the serfice that's gunna touch the berral too

[fivel_976]

Also having problems with some sticking together after baking pulling them apart pulls the coating the off

[Lakehouse2012]

Your coating way to thick if you have any sticking together. Remember this ISN'T Harbor Freight powder coating...

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[fivel_976]

How do you tell if first coat is dry before baking

[wlkjr]

Having trouble with bullets having bare spots and hard time getting the hallow point colored even after 3 coats and suggestions
As mentioned, sounds like you are coating too thick. I'd suggest that you thin your mix with a little more acetone.

[wlkjr]

How do you tell if first coat is dry before baking
I coat mine very thinly and the acetone flashes off pretty quickly. I put them under a box fan to dry and usually within 10 minutes mine are ready to cook. I am doing mine inside my workshop which is pretty climate controlled. Not sure what temperature your building is and that could make a difference. I also sit a tray of uncooked boolits on top of my toaster oven for 12-15 minutes to preheat before putting them in oven.

[Lakehouse2012]

After initial coating, i put in a wire basket to dry. Every 3-5 min i shake the basket to move surfaces around, i do this 3 times before exposing to anything but room temp. Then i bake. You should be able to touch and pickup any boolit without any feeling of tackiness

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[Lakehouse2012]

The preheat may be the problem, stop it and see if it gives better results

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[fivel_976]

I set mine on top of the oven so the heat helps dry I live in Minnesota so it's not that hot here yet. After the first thin coat is it ok to put the second one on thicker

[Lakehouse2012]

I set mine on top of the oven so the heat helps dry I live in Minnesota so it's not that hot here yet. After the first thin coat is it ok to put the second one on thicker
My limited experience says not too. Thin coats, usually 3 seems to lead to better success. Minnesota is having similar weather to Michigan, i find the acetone actually flashes off faster on the cool, drier days.

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[wlkjr]

I'm assuming that you are cooking between each coat?

[fivel_976]

Yeah I cook between each coat

[fivel_976]

Also hard to judge how much to use on the bullets

[Grmps]

I have mixed candy apple red and the dark blue which made a purple like that until I baked it, and it went dark like the dark blue.
I have never heard of a blue in hi-tek coating. Where did you get this?

Preheating on the oven is a good thing! It's not recommended to set the bullet tray directly on the oven. use a spacer of some sort (I use an oven rack bent to match the ovens contour so it doesn't slide off when removing the tray of bullets) If the tray of bullets gets to hot to handle comfortably without gloves you need a thicker spacer.
uneven coating on bullets could be caused by mixing the solution to thick ( stay between 20 grams to 100grams through 130grams), to much coating to amount of bullets (6 ml to 5.5 lbs works well for the first coat) another possible culprit is not letting the new mix of coating sit for at least 30 minute to absorb the liquid.
the coating separates in the jar very quickly (especially the metallics) make sure the coating is well mixed immediately before applying to the bullets ( I like using a 20 mil syringe, Suck it full of solution, squirt it out then fill it again, then squirt out all but what you need then squirt the rest on your bullets.
Over agitation will cause lumpy / grainy bullets. 15-20 seconds then dump.( dumping wet bullets is not a bad thing)

[Lakehouse2012]

Also hard to judge how much to use on the bullets
Using you squirt bottle, only need 2 tablespoons, its a very very small amount. More of it will stick to walls of container than to boolits. In my findings it takes some very fast, vigorous shaking before the acetone evaporates.

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[fivel_976]

I use 20ml syringe to measure I use 2ml to coat 50 40cals and 4ml to coat 100 40s

[TexasGrunt]

Using you squirt bottle, only need 2 tablespoons, its a very very small amount. More of it will stick to walls of container than to boolits. In my findings it takes some very fast, vigorous shaking before the acetone evaporates.

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2 TABLESPOONS? That does a lot of bullets. That's almost 30 ml of solution.

[slide]

The instructions say 6 mils to 2500 grams ( you can convert to pounds if you wish). Six mils is 1/2 tablespoon. I work in a water testing lab and have access to lab measuring equipment. 2500 38 special bullets is around 200 to 250. I have never counted them. Guys, you have got to measure and weigh your stuff or you will fail! Make sure you shake the mix good before putting in swirling bucket.

[Lakehouse2012]

2 TABLESPOONS? That does a lot of bullets. That's almost 30 ml of solution.
Point for TexasGrunt for checking me at the door. [emoji27] I have been following the instructions to a Tee, used my gram scale for both solid and liquid. My mistake was ballparking in this thread. The point is though its a very small amount of solution on 4-5Lbs of boolits. Smaller then i would have thought when beginning this process.

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[Ausglock]

If you have coating coming off when you pull stuck bullets apart says 2 major flaws.
1. Far too much coating being used.
2. Coating is not "Dry" before baking.
If you were to do a smash test on those hollowpoint bullets, it would all flake off.

[Ausglock]

BTW... Today is HITEK Joe's Birthday.
He was hatched back in the days of Donkey drawn carts.
So that makes him around 132 years old. No wonder he is a grumpy old fart.

Happy Birthday, Mate. I'd send you a bottle of Bourbon, but I'm broke..:groner:

[Lakehouse2012]

BTW... Today is HITEK Joe's Birthday.
He was hatched back in the days of Donkey drawn carts.
So that makes him around 132 years old. No wonder he is a grumpy old fart.

Happy Birthday, Mate. I'd send you a bottle of Bourbon, but I'm broke..:groner:
Nice! Happy Birthday Joe. I have to look up if today is tomorrow for me, compared to you.... LOL

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[Avenger442]

Hope you like chocolate. HAPPY BIRTHDAY JOE!!!

193394

[fivel_976]

My hallow points pass the 2 test I'm wondering it it's to thick maybe all the bare spots are from them sticking to the basket

[slide]

Happy Birthday Joe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:guntootsmiley:

[TonyN]

Some reason my wipe and smash test passed with 2 coats and used WW and had bad leading. Used Range lead before I ran out with 2 coats the same way with 100ML acetone and 20 ml powder

Without leading. Is WW a softer lead them Range lead? I'm think WW is a softer lead but can't remember

[Lakehouse2012]

Some reason my wipe and smash test passed with 2 coats and used WW and had bad leading. Used Range lead before I ran out with 2 coats the same way with 100ML acetone and 20 ml powder

Without leading. Is WW a softer lead them Range lead? I'm think WW is a softer lead but can't remember
WW is typically harder at an average of 14, range can be as soft as 6.

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[fivel_976]

Guess it depends on the ww the stick ons are much softer then clip ons I blended my stickys in with the clip ons outa my 3000lbs of lead maybe 200 was stick on

[HI-TEK]

Happy Birthday Joe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:guntootsmiley:

Thanks much, your kind wishes are much appreciated.

[HI-TEK]

Hope you like chocolate. HAPPY BIRTHDAY JOE!!!

193394



Yuuuuum That looks great. Thank you for your kind thought and wishes.
Much appreciated.

[Warhead]

Thanks much, your kind wishes are much appreciated.

Happy birthday Joe!! :D

[dikman]

Happy birthday, Joe, may you have many more :drinks:.

Tony, in general stick-on WW are pure lead, while clip-ons are harder (I've seen figures of 12-16 BNH). My pistol range scrap is about 12-15 BNH, but that could vary depending what the alloying is that the manufacturers use where you are. I have no idea if it varies state to state or country to country.

[HI-TEK]

To all who sent me a PM and all who wished me a happy birthday, I would like opportunity to thank you all for the kind thoughts. It is much appreciated.
Hi-Tek Joe

[Gremlin460]

Beware Joe, they only want you for your Powder!!!! Be careful.

PS I would send you a bottle of burbon, IF you promise to send the finnished bottle back full of copper/red...... Deal?



To all who sent me a PM and all who wished me a happy birthday, I would like opportunity to thank you all for the kind thoughts. It is much appreciated.
Hi-Tek Joe

[slide]

Sneaky,Grem,real sneaky!

[HI-TEK]

Beware Joe, they only want you for your Powder!!!! Be careful.

PS I would send you a bottle of burbon, IF you promise to send the finnished bottle back full of copper/red...... Deal?


PM sent.....

[fivel_976]

Anyone know if there is any type of metallic blue coating?

[Ausglock]

Anyone know if there is any type of metallic blue coating?

Hahahahaha... The holy grail. I feel a Monty Python moment coming on...hahahahaha
Joe.. You want to answer this????? Hahahahahahahaha

[Avenger442]

fivel 976

You mean about this color .193659

Joe is working on that one and this one 193660 as we speak.

Edison 10,000 tries and the light bulb. Almost there.

[fivel_976]

I was looking on a website from a bullet manufacturer in Colorado springs thay are using a coating in blue and purple as well as a few other colors

[fivel_976]

Here's a picture off there website 193671 193670

[Warhead]

I don't mean to be that guy, but those look horrible! Must say I do like the blue and purple colors, but that coating is very very uneven!

[HI-TEK]

Here's a picture off there website 193671 193670

Can you please supply the website/seller of theses coated projectiles?
Colours look great.

[HI-TEK]

fivel 976

You mean about this color .193659

Joe is working on that one and this one 193660 as we speak.

Edison 10,000 tries and the light bulb. Almost there.


Avenger,
Thanks for colours. However, over 10 years, and, despite trying many products I have not found any thing that was stable in our coatings system that stayed Blue or Yellow or pure Pink or Orange.
The Pantone colours do not seem to be stable to heat.
The Chemistry/property of our unique coating systems, simply seems to not be compatible with these materials, and many simply do not stand up to heat required to set out coatings.
I have seen many coated projectiles, get into the market, but very few have provided any data on end use or suitability.
Just by the simple fact that coatings are applied to an alloy, does not simply arrive at a conclusion that they will work, or that they meet all requirements.
I am not trying to be negative, but I find it amusing, that people will try any thing to make a quick buck.

[benellinut]

Can you please supply the website/seller of theses coated projectiles?
Colours look great.

I found it http://www.egglestonmunitions.com/shop.html

[fivel_976]

Egglestonmunitions.com

[benellinut]

Here's a very high res pic from their site, too big to post here, click the link https://dqzrr9k4bjpzk.cloudfront.net/images/2222229/396406058.jpg

[Avenger442]

Avenger,
Thanks for colours. However, over 10 years, and, despite trying many products I have not found any thing that was stable in our coatings system that stayed Blue or Yellow or pure Pink or Orange.
The Pantone colours do not seem to be stable to heat.
The Chemistry/property of our unique coating systems, simply seems to not be compatible with these materials, and many simply do not stand up to heat required to set out coatings.

That's OK Joe, I don't use your coating for the colors. Thanks.


Warhead
I'll be that guy. Your right. And they do look like Easter eggs.

[benellinut]

I just noticed something in the high res pic I linked above, each bullet has the identical light reflections, marks and spots. Those are all the same photo and they used software to change the colors, guess you can't go by those pics to know just what they look like in life.

[HI-TEK]

I just noticed something in the high res pic I linked above, each bullet has the identical light reflections, marks and spots. Those are all the same photo and they used software to change the colors, guess you can't go by those pics to know just what they look like in life.

It is a mystery, why any one, would go to such lengths just to make their product more acceptable. Their customers would discover very quickly, that what was advertised is not the same as being purchased. It is not good for reputations at all.

[fivel_976]

I seen a YouTube video guy got 500 blue 9mms I think that looked really nice in the video how I found the web site

[Avenger442]

I think your going to have to go PC if you want blue. And there is some kind of paint out there that a guy at the range was showing me. Of course neither PC or other types of paint were made with the intention of using as a lubricant in your guns. It just happens that some have been able to used it for a coating.

I've used a lot of products that were not intended for the use I was putting them to. Vaseline was intended for use on a person's body. But it also works as a decent lubricant for some things. I use it to lube the shell plate on my progressive press. Vinegar is another example. I haven't even scratched the surface with what it will do. Bailing wire and duct tape will fix a lot of things that they were not designed originally to do. My wife tapped her car back together with a roll of duct tape when she had a wreck on a trip with my daughter. It still amuses me to think of them tapeing that car back together and driving it about 200 miles back to the house.

But there are some products that look like they will work well and then have some unintended and sometimes dangerous effect. Blew up several test tubes with chemicals as a kid and have the scars to prove it. All of them were perfectly safe in my mind. I used something recently to lube a case I was putting through a sizing die and the shell stuck. I had to go through that extraction process with the puller. My Mother was the master of using things for task that they were not created for. She bent several butter knives using them for screw drivers. Dad finally brought some of his tools in and put them in the drawer in the kitchen. She still used the knife. She hardly ever used a hammer. She used her shoe heel.

Point is that Hi Tek was designed with the intention and tested to be used as a lubricant on your bullet in your gun and has been used that way for over 20 years. Short term evidence says powder coating is OK. Don't try the duct tape it don't work.

[HI-TEK]

I seen a YouTube video guy got 500 blue 9mms I think that looked really nice in the video how I found the web site

5-976
You should contact the U-Tube video guy to ask where he got the blue coloured coating, and what coating was used to obtain that colour. You should publish your findings.
Then, you should also ask the manufacturer of the coating, if it is suitable for end use as posted on U-Tube. The fact that it is pretty, and Blue, or nice, does not suddenly make it suitable for end use application nor guarantee it will work.
I have not seen any evidence to demonstrate that such a product will actually perform in end use applications. Having a Blue coloured coating does not automatically guarantee success or suitability. I may be out of line with my comments, but I find it strange that finding a Blue coating is suddenly is the ants pants and is desirable for users, and being Blue is the only thing that is important.

[Ausglock]

Buy I want blue with yellow spots.
Go Parra

Or White with red spots.
Go Dragons

[dikman]

White sounds good.......

[Warhead]

5-976
You should contact the U-Tube video guy to ask where he got the blue coloured coating, and what coating was used to obtain that colour. You should publish your findings.
Then, you should also ask the manufacturer of the coating, if it is suitable for end use as posted on U-Tube. The fact that it is pretty, and Blue, or nice, does not suddenly make it suitable for end use application nor guarantee it will work.
I have not seen any evidence to demonstrate that such a product will actually perform in end use applications. Having a Blue coloured coating does not automatically guarantee success or suitability. I may be out of line with my comments, but I find it strange that finding a Blue coating is suddenly is the ants pants and is desirable for users, and being Blue is the only thing that is important.

But itttssss blue maaaannnnn! :p hahaha

I have tried powder coating, and while it works I have found to problems, bases of bullets are never even thus causing accuracy issues, and the coating is not even all the way around the bullet, also affecting accuracy. Now all this is fine and dandy for pistol use at short distances, but for longer shots, or rifle use it is a problem..

Now here is the kicker, I am lazy, and appose to sitting there for like 5 minutes shaking a Tupperware container to coat 50 bullets then pick them out and shake them off then stand them on on nonstick foil, then bake for 20 minutes, I could swirl 200 bullets in the same container for about 20 seconds then just dump the bullets unceremoniously in a big pile in a mesh basket, give it a quick shake to even them out go do something else for ten minutes and finely bake for 12 minutes and bing done bullets!

[Kitika]

I've always had trouble with the heavy 500gr bullets getting rough coats or coating not sticking well. Yesterday I cast up a heap of 500grers with my new NOE HTC mold and coated 2.8kg with only 2.5ml of red copper and got a great looking bullet. Here's a pic of one with a single coat. 193881

[TonyN]

Does Hi-Tek work with froasted over projectiles?

[Kitika]

Has worked for me.

[Warhead]

Does Hi-Tek work with froasted over projectiles?

Like there ain't no tomorrow commin' it does! :p

[dikman]

I haven't done any coating for a while so after casting about 400 or so (mostly .38 and some .44-40) figured I should coat them. All went well (of course) other than over-baking the Zombie Green slightly :roll:. I set the timer for 12 mins, eventually remembering I normally only use 10. I noticed the temp was staying a bit above 200C and taking a while to settle down so I'll have to re-train the PID next time. The Bronze looks good but the ZG looks more like a light Olive Drab with a slight golden sheen! I love how I can get slight colour variation with just a minor tweaking :lol:. Needless to say they passed the smash test so will work fine.

[Grmps]

Flat base bullets get sized after the first coat, then second coat gets applied.
Bevel base bullets get sized after second coat.

G'Day Trevor, I'm still learning about Hi-Tek and wonder what the reasoning is for doing this.
Do you size the flat base bullets 1 thou under desired size and have the second coat bring it up to where you want them?
Does it hurt flat based hi-tek coated bullets to size after the final coat?

[Avenger442]

Hi Tek in 45-70 100 yards. Good day at the range.
194224

That four shot group measures about 1 1/2". Had a good group going until very last shot. Oh well, still best I've been able to do with 45-70. The next target was almost the same with 39 gn of IMR 4198.

The end product is what I'm after. If I can ever get to 1". I'm way below what the Winchester hunting ammo I sighted in with will do. It was 2 1/2" at 100 yd.

Really like this stuff.

[popper]

This is from 2 yrs ago, 1035 gold @ 100, 15.5 4227 under a 150gr PB, 1:7 BO carbine, sized 310. Got some leading so haven't played with the HiTek in rifle since. IMO I got the coating too thick. IMO the horizontal is due to the crummy carbine stock - replace with full rifle now and changed the upper to 1:10. AC isocore, @ 1600 fps. I think it will work, just HV makes the application more critical.
194229

[Ausglock]

G'Day Trevor, I'm still learning about Hi-Tek and wonder what the reasoning is for doing this.
Do you size the flat base bullets 1 thou under desired size and have the second coat bring it up to where you want them?
Does it hurt flat based hi-tek coated bullets to size after the final coat?

Flat base usually have a bit of flashing around the edges. Sizing after the first coat tends to remove it. I don't size again after the second coat. just use them as is.
This works well for the 205gn RNFP Lee 44 bullets out of the Marlin 1894.