simple Hi-Tek coating

[HI-TEK]

187512Don't trust cheap digital thermometers

Thanks Marky123
This problem is a major cause for people to get bad results.
Cheap thermometers are not reliable enough.

Ovens are not much better with the thermostats that are installed. Temperatures can swing plus or minus 50C from knob set temperatures. Reading on knob says 200C, but oven can be any where from 150C to 250C.
That is why many opt to use these controllers as they are cheap but work well.

[TonyN]

Hi-tek is sulfur are good day to go in taking out zink?
I bought some so I'll be trying it out soon.
I'm going to start buying range lead from now on i believe.

[TonyN]

Avenger442 I sent you a P.M.

[Krieger82]

Anyone considered turning this thread into a book? Lol....coukd someone direct me to the page where heat treating coated boolits that have been sized??

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[dikman]

" Man that stuff stinks when you melt it worse than the stick on wheel weights." I didn't think that was possible!:lol:

Krieger, if you re-sized after your final coat then just put them back in the oven, heat to your baking temp and drop them in water. If sizing after the first coat then you could just drop them straight in after the second coat (assuming two coats).
Is that what you wanted to know?

[TonyN]

I did the sulfur and my pot had a white hais before and now there is a mirror like pot full of lead.
My convection oven has a hot Spot in the back side of it. Is there a way to fix this? My kryptonite green is a bright green color and the back side is a brownish green color.

[Ausglock]

Is there a fan in your oven?
I pulled my oven apart and bent the fan blades to give them more pitch, thus more air flow.
Do you take the tray out at the 1/2 way point and turn it 90 deg and re-insert it?
This will help with colour variation. Also a good time to give the tray a shake.

[marky123]

I did the sulfur and my pot had a white hais before and now there is a mirror like pot full of lead.
My convection oven has a hot Spot in the back side of it. Is there a way to fix this? My kryptonite green is a bright green color and the back side is a brownish green color.
Have you shot them like this Tony?

[TonyN]

Yes there is a fan but it doesn't seem to blow very much. I don't touch them at all till the timer goes off. I take it your oven has a hot Spot?
Please explain what I need to do to fix this if there is any. I'm not happy with seeing hot spots on my bullets.

[TonyN]

Have you shot them like this Tony?
No i haven't. I'm kind of a perfectionist and I want to get this down first. I think I have the rub off and about the time with when they need. I have the PID working perfect. I'm not happy with the way the hot spots look like. I want the color to be exactly how they should be. I would like to get a full size oven but I don't have the money to afford a used one. Does the house ovens have hot spots in them?

[HI-TEK]

No i haven't. I'm kind of a perfectionist and I want to get this down first. I think I have the rub off and about the time with when they need. I have the PID working perfect. I'm not happy with the way the hot spots look like. I want the color to be exactly how they should be. I would like to get a full size oven but I don't have the money to afford a used one. Does the house ovens have hot spots in them?


Tony,
Main reasons you may find hot spots is
1. Poor quality fan, not enough speed heat circulation.
2. You also may be getting radiant heat concentrating in areas closer to heating element.
3. Over loading tray, so air that is being stirred with fan, cannot not move around adequately and evenly.

Now, with your Sulphur treatment , besides colour variations after baking, has your coating been successful?
Would appreciate an update.

[TonyN]

Tony,
Main reasons you may find hot spots is
1. Poor quality fan, not enough speed heat circulation.
2. You also may be getting radiant heat concentrating in areas closer to heating element.
3. Over loading tray, so air that is being stirred with fan, cannot not move around adequately and evenly.

Now, with your Sulphur treatment , besides colour variations after baking, has your coating been successful?
Would appreciate an update.

Well so far I did a smash test and I had zero flaking on first coat. I'll do another coat and check back.
My coating was bonded really good. It was probably the best bonded coating I have seen so far.

[TonyN]

Can anyone recommend be a good quality convection oven that blows air really good that doesn't have hot spots?
Are the house ovens good where there are no hot spots?

[TonyN]

I found a house convection oven for 300. That someone is selling. Are these full size convection house ovens perfect for air flow?

[Gremlin460]

Can anyone recommend be a good quality convection oven that blows air really good that doesn't have hot spots?
Are the house ovens good where there are no hot spots?


Fit an additional fan or two on the OUTSIDE of the oven and just extend the shaft through a small hole to a fan blade on the inside. No such thing as too much airflow.

[ioon44]

I have a used built in convection oven from a second hand store that was cheaper than any new toaster oven and I never have any hot spots. The bullets from your hot spot will shoot just fine, the targets really don't care.

[TonyN]

Anyone use normal house ovens? Do they have hot spots?

[Krieger82]

" Man that stuff stinks when you melt it worse than the stick on wheel weights." I didn't think that was possible![emoji38]

Krieger, if you re-sized after your final coat then just put them back in the oven, heat to your baking temp and drop them in water. If sizing after the first coat then you could just drop them straight in after the second coat (assuming two coats).
Is that what you wanted to know?
Yes, that is what I was looking for. I was tempted to print this thread, but it was over 300 sheets of paper.....so thank you, haha. Normally bake at 435 for a half hour...no issue?

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[Ausglock]

Anyone use normal house ovens? Do they have hot spots?

Yep. Gutted the control and fitted a PID and timer.
187706

[TonyN]

Yep. Gutted the control and fitted a PID and timer.
187706

I would love that set up!!!!

[TonyN]

Ausglock is that a full size house oven? How many pounds do you bake in each oven?

[TonyN]

I take it my PID will work on a manual house oven? With a 240 volt oven? I'm able to get a house oven but need to know if a 240 Will work with it?

[Ausglock]

You have to wire your PID to control the heating elements. My oven has 4 elements, But I only use 2.
It will do 2 trays of 2.5Kg each tray in 7 1/2 minutes.
Huge **** fan in the back for airflow.
Aussie 240 volts is single phase. I think your US 240 volts is 3 phase??
Our 3 phase is 415 volts.

[TonyN]

I Need to check into this before I buy a Manuel oven first.

[Avenger442]

I take it my PID will work on a manual house oven? With a 240 volt oven? I'm able to get a house oven but need to know if a 240 Will work with it?

If I remember correctly you need a different PID when going from 110 to 240 volts. Been a while since I put my two in service both 110V. There are several good discussions on this on this forum.

[dikman]

Normally bake at 435 for a half hour...no issue?

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You can bake the Hi-Tek for 1/2 hr, but why would you? The 10-12 mins used for the coating process should be more than enough.

Tony is starting to confuse me a bit about the oven/240v/PID thing. I'm using a small, non-convection oven (PID controlled) and don't have any problems (I only use the centre shelf because that gives the best results).

[TonyN]

I just want to know if I get a full size house oven If I can still use my PID or will it not work on a 240 outlet?

[Ausglock]

I use the PID to control an SSR that in turn, controls the heating elements.
If you have a PID and SSR for 240 volts, then, yes you can.

If you are not up to speed with sparkying, don't do it.
When the blue smoke leaks out, it is stuffed.

[Krieger82]

You can bake the Hi-Tek for 1/2 hr, but why would you? The 10-12 mins used for the coating process should be more than enough.

Tony is starting to confuse me a bit about the oven/240v/PID thing. I'm using a small, non-convection oven (PID controlled) and don't have any problems (I only use the centre shelf because that gives the best results).
I size after the coating, which will work soften the lead.

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[dikman]

In that case Krieger I'd just re-heat them, as in baking the coating (10 mins) then drop them in water. Should work.

Tony, most PID's that I've looked at have input voltages from around 80v to 250v or so. That means they will operate from both US 110v and the 230-240v used in other countries without any problems.

Just a thought, how are you using the PID on your small oven? Have you re-wired it so that it only controls the heating elements or does it switch the whole oven on and off?

[TonyN]

It switches it on and off.. I didn't know you can control the elements. Please explain this So I can try this

[Ausglock]

Go have a look at the threads on PID's
If you are not up to speed with electricity......don't do it.
You can be killed!!!!!!

[dikman]

I'd say that's why you're getting hot spots in your oven, every time the PID switches off the oven it's turning off the fan and the heat circulation is relying purely on convection. Based on my experience with a non-convection oven it will definitely over-cook on the top shelf and possibly undercook on the bottom. For me the middle shelf worked fine (with the PID temp probe just above the centre of the shelf).

If fan-forced the oven has to be re-wired to use a PID (to separate the heating elements and fan), and as Trevor said if you don't understand how to work with electricity think very carefully about doing this - if you make a mistake it can be fatal!! (Probably will, not too many survive a shock from household mains electricity).

[TonyN]

I'd say that's why you're getting hot spots in your oven, every time the PID switches off the oven it's turning off the fan and the heat circulation is relying purely on convection. Based on my experience with a non-convection oven it will definitely over-cook on the top shelf and possibly undercook on the bottom. For me the middle shelf worked fine (with the PID temp probe just above the centre of the shelf).

If fan-forced the oven has to be re-wired to use a PID (to separate the heating elements and fan), and as Trevor said if you don't understand how to work with electricity think very carefully about doing this - if you make a mistake it can be fatal!! (Probably will, not too many survive a shock from household mains electricity).
I sent you a P.M.

Also I just bought a used manual electric household oven and would really want to use my PID with it. So could someone Please send me in the right direction.

[Ausglock]

Tony...
Mate....
Listen.....
If you want to get your oven re-wired, GO TO a SPARKY.
If you don't know what the hell you are doing, DON'T!!!!!!!!!!
If saving money means loosing your life, which would you preffer??????
I do not know what your vocation is/was.
Mine is Wood Science. With side training in Mechanical engineering and Electrical engineering.
I also trained as a welder/ fitter and turner at night school (known as TAFE here in OZ).
So if you don't have experience in blue smoke generators, get somebody else to do it for you.

[Ausglock]

This is my benchtop convection oven with an old school Bulb thermometer/thermostat with rotary dial. It cost $5 from eBay.
It is a straight swap for the factory thermostat. Only extra was to unscrew the rotissery motor and insert the bulb through the same hole, rivet a support rod for the bulb end and away we go.
Does away with the need for a PID. Temp is set at 190Deg C and baked 1 tray of 2.5KG of bullet perfectly on the centre shelf in 12 minutes.
This may be a cheaper and safer option.
187834

187835
187836
Also wired in a small red LED to show when the heating was active.
187837
This is the rod and Bulb mounted under the centre shelf.

If you try this and kill yourself, do no blame me.

[TonyN]

No I'm not going to do it myself... I believe the sulfur solved the problem. I also put my shelf in the middle of the oven instead the bottom as before. I do not have any hot spots now like I did before. 10 min. Seems to be perfect without over color. I did the rub test and they where perfect. No coating rub off. They chipped bad but I think I rushed them drying. As soon as the tacky or sticky feel wasn't there I would put in oven. I'll let them dry more next time.
Question is is smashing them on the side good. Enouph for a test or do I need to smash from the nose down?

I like your ovens..
What do you recommend for my manual house oven?

[dikman]

Tony, if you're giving it to an electrician to do just tell him you want the PID to control the heating elements and you need a switch to operate the fan separately. The existing controls on the oven aren't needed. If you want to get fancy you could fit a switch to the door so when the door is opened the fan is turned off so it doesn't blow the heat out.

[TonyN]

Tony, if you're giving it to an electrician to do just tell him you want the PID to control the heating elements and you need a switch to operate the fan separately. The existing controls on the oven aren't needed. If you want to get fancy you could fit a switch to the door so when the door is opened the fan is turned off so it doesn't blow the heat out.

Lol ya that Would be awesome for sure.. It will probably be a little while before I get the electric ran for the oven. I just got my small convection oven running right with the time. It's amazing how much it makes a difference in putting the rack in the middle instead of the bottom. I would really like to run the oven off of a PID for sure but need to find out what and how. Do it might be a while.

[Gremlin460]

yup, wall oven, they have better insulation, I also modified fan and took the grill element and fitted into the base of the oven to double heat output, plus 4 large clay paving bricks as heat stabilizers. recovery time from tray swaps ~30 seconds.
Its that efficient with dual elements my cook time was shortened buy an minute and a half.
Cost of oven $50 secondhand via ebay.

[Gremlin460]

Just a heads up why I used dual elements:-

Single elements get to 200c say it takes 8 mins from cold start.
With dual elements the time from cold start is still 8 mins for me, why? you ask, because I also heat the 5 clay bricks to 200c as well. Now once its all up to temp, taking out a tray of hot cast and inserting a tray of stone cold lead leached the heat out of the air like you would not believe. BUT I now have 10# of red hot clay bricks and 2400watts of heating elements to punch the heat back up to 200c fast even with the lead leaching heat out.
Do I use more power? no not really, the pid cycles slower on dual elements, the on time is shorter due to the fact the heat output is twice as high.
Also being a WALL oven, its heavy insulated, simply because it was built to live in a wood frame and thefore contains the heat more by design.

[Ausglock]

Grem.
Mine has 2 elements at the top, one underneath and one around the fan.
I only use the elements round the fan and one on top. pushes 2700 watts
No pavers and recovery is about 30 seconds on tray changes. Fan turns off when door opens.
2 trays in 7 1/2 minutes...
Go you good thing..

[TonyN]

I would like those set ups. I'm planning on doing things to my wall oven sometime. I need to read up and see how to do things. I have briskets I bought from Lowes that I put in my small toaster convection oven. I'll prob do the same to my manual electric oven when I get it up and running.
What did you guys use to make the trays with? By what I see its the same material i seen at the store and it seems like it will be hard to bend the material.

[TonyN]

Looks like I actually have it down now. Once I used sulfur to my lead it cleared up. I put the tray in the middle And The hot spots cleared up. I'm going to bend the blades on my small convection oven to see if I get more air movement. Next is to get free time to shoot these.

[Ausglock]

All good..

[HI-TEK]

All good..


It is all good, and I am glad that it is now working out.

BUT, it took 96 plus posts to get things right. This was the longest discovery tour I have ever seen...

The best outcome is, that, contrary to first implied, the coating was not the problem at all.
Members on this site, spent at least 60-65% of their time, with their goodwill help and suggestions, with trying to get coating to work. But all that advice and help, was with not knowing that use of coating was being applied on a badly contaminated alloy.

[marky123]

Looks like I actually have it down now. Once I used sulfur to my lead it cleared up. I put the tray in the middle And The hot spots cleared up. I'm going to bend the blades on my small convection oven to see if I get more air movement. Next is to get free time to shoot these.
Have you shot any of the bullets you have coated yet Tony?

[TonyN]

It is all good, and I am glad that it is now working out.

BUT, it took 96 plus posts to get things right. This was the longest discovery tour I have ever seen...

The best outcome is, that, contrary to first implied, the coating was not the problem at all.
Members on this site, spent at least 60-65% of their time, with their goodwill help and suggestions, with trying to get coating to work. But all that advice and help, was with not knowing that use of coating was being applied on a badly contaminated alloy.

At least people seen that this will happen with bad alloy. So I take it that if it passes wipe test and smash test that it will for sure work without fail in a glock barrel?
I'm liking the color of the kryptonite green color. I want to try the old gold next.
It took me a large container to figure this out. I actually went thru a large container and just got this to work right. Over a year of this went on.

[HI-TEK]

At least people seen that this will happen with bad alloy. So I take it that if it passes wipe test and smash test that it will for sure work without fail in a glock barrel?
I'm liking the color of the kryptonite green color. I want to try the old gold next.
It took me a large container to figure this out. I actually went thru a large container and just got this to work right. Over a year of this went on.

NOOOO, passing smash test and wipe test has nothing to do with assuming that any ammo coated will work in any gun.
You seem to be assuming/assering, that any alloy, passing preliminary tests, will automatically work in designated application.
You may have passed smash test and solvent test, but you have not advised how hard was your alloy, what is your bore diameter, and what is your size diameter of coated alloy, what is your load, what equipment you used to load and crimp, and on it goes.
As I have said many many times previously, the coatings are nothing more or less than a bonded dry film lube to separate barrel and alloy.
If correctly applied, to correct alloy for end use application, and all other engineering areas are taken in consideration, the coating works just fine.
The coatings do not compensate for all other failures occurring, with use of wrong alloys, incorrect coating applications, wrong loading and crimping, wrong sizing etc etc.
Sorry mate, but you cannot make a broad-brush statement implying what you had stated in your blog in respect to using coated ammo in Glocks..
The correctly coated, and, using correct alloys for use in Glocks, has worked for many years.
I do not know your intentions with all of this huge volumes of blogs you have posted.
We do not at this stage know, if what you have produced will actually be useful for your end uses.
Marky 123 asked you that specific question in his blog 8297.

[TonyN]

I understand. Was just asking..
No I have posted couple times I have not have time to shoot these. I wanted to get coating down first. My lead is WW And i quench after last coating to harden alloy.

[popper]

Tony - sulfur will remove the zinc and make the alloy harder - you may not need to WD after coating. Most of the toaster oven fan motors are induction motors and will not run right from a PID. Find somebody to wire it direct with a cord, plug the normal plug to the PID, new one to the fan. SSR will work on 240 (if so rated) but need a larger heat sink. US 220 is single phase, split to get 110.

[TonyN]

I'll give it couple days then check the hardness. I have a Lee BHN tester. I know for sure when I tried Water quenching then oven it would soften the lead. So now WQ after I do last coating then it hardens the alloy. I'll try that and see how hard they become from the sulfur.


Thank you all who helped out with this.

[Avenger442]

I have confirmed to myself, at least once, that the Hi Tek will not allow you to violate the usual rules of hand loading that you would use with any other lubricant. It's not a magic wand that suddenly transforms your bullet into a super hero. It is just a simpler, easier, cleaner way to put a lubricant between your bullet and the barrel. In some cases it might be prettier. My latest were not.
188067 This is that bunch of left over coating all mixed together. They are ugly as far as color goes. And not all that good looking when cast. Thankfully, I can't duplicate the color.

Trip with them to the range yesterday wasn't all that successful either.
188068 This is the best group.

The load is a 45-70. Bullet is Lee's 459-405-HB (actual cast and coated weight is around 409 gn) Three coats baked 12 min. at between 390 and 400 F powder is IMR 4064 53 gn in a Hornady case with CCI primer.

The group wouldn't be too bad since I was shooting off a rest at 100 yards with iron sights. The bad thing was I was having to aim 8" above the center to get close to the center. Was aiming at center with 51 and 52 grains of powder and bullet was going low missing the target and the backer board. Yes I know a 45-70 is not a .308 or .223 but I was expecting a flatter trajectory. The sights were maxed out as far as adjustment. I think I'm going to look at another powder and maybe put a scope on it.

But the real item for this thread is that the lubricant worked. Wet Frog Lube patch followed by a dry patch removed most of the powder fouling and the rifling was clearly visible with a bore light. No leading.

Now I may not have cast a perfect bullet or done a perfect job of coating or even loaded a perfect round for this gun. There are several things that I can adjust to get what I want. But the lubricant did it's job.

[marky123]

I understand. Was just asking..
No I have posted couple times I have not have time to shoot these. I wanted to get coating down first. My lead is WW And i quench after last coating to harden alloy.

Have you been trying Hitek for a year and not shot any coated bullets yet?

[TonyN]

No I have but nothing worked.
Shot around 50 or so in my glock 21 and had great results. I actually had great results. I loaded the with lead load data.

[marky123]

[QUOTE=TonyN;3951387]No I have but nothing worked.
Shot around 50 or so in my glock 21 and had great results. I actually had great results. I loaded the with lead load data.
/QUOTE]

What happened when you used them?
MARK

[TonyN]

I had some lands that had very little gray but it brushed right out with the bore snake. But most shot with no color once cleared out.
All I really seen was burnt powder. I haven't cleaned the barrel yet so I'll take couple pictures.
I'm very pleased with this Hi-Tek coating and will buy more for sure.

[Gremlin460]

Just remembereven with Hitek, fit is KING, cast to bore fit is hugely important. Ask Trev what he thinks on this.




I had some lands that had very little gray but it brushed right out with the bore snake. But most shot with no color once cleared out.
All I really seen was burnt powder. I haven't cleaned the barrel yet so I'll take couple pictures.
I'm very pleased with this Hi-Tek coating and will buy more for sure.

[Ausglock]

Don't ask me....I'm done with it.

People ask for help and guidance.
You offer it, but no notice is taken.
Why bother?

[Krieger82]

Hey all, what is alproximate shelf life of hi-tek coating once mixed together (stored in a 1 qt sealed steel paint can). I only mixed a small amount to give it a go. I botched it the first time around due to the wrong balance of ingredients (I think). I stored the leftovers as mentioned, which made ke winder how long it will last like that. Thanks.

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[Ausglock]

Should still be good in 12 months time.
Just keep it sealed and cool.

[HI-TEK]

Should still be good in 12 months time.
Just keep it sealed and cool.

Also, mixture may darken and change from original colour, and mixture may thicken a little, but adding more solvent, it should be OK to use.
Just make sure that it is mixed well before you start decanting to coat.
Important, keep it out of sunlight.

[benellinut]

Just have to chime in and say, although it may have been as painful for some as it was for Tony, there were tips posted that I also didn't know. I learned a few things that will surely save me time and frustration and for that I'm thankful to Hi-Tek and Trev for enduring. Down the road others will surely read these posts and also benefit, time was not wasted. Thanks again Gents. :drinks:

[dikman]

At 416 pages, and growing, this thread is getting to monumental proportions!

[Krieger82]

At 416 pages, and growing, this thread is getting to monumental proportions!
I am still half tempted to print this thing out and turn it into some kind of guide

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[HI-TEK]

I am still half tempted to print this thing out and turn it into some kind of guide

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I recall, that someone wanted to write a book from this blog.
There has been certainly a lot of interested people seeking information.
This is a great site, and members are very switched on and help all who asks.
Thanks to all.

[Gremlin460]

Same reason I stepped back from the Mic..


Don't ask me....I'm done with it.

People ask for help and guidance.
You offer it, but no notice is taken.
Why bother?

[TonyN]

Yup. I take this as a lesson learned as what to do and not to do. Others have also got great info from this. Someone will or does have this problem I had and now they can see the problem and might fix it and be on there way. It sucked really bad but I stuck with it and said Hi-tek was what I want to use so I stayed with it.

[kmrra]

I just got my HiTek powder in the mail today , and wont be using it for a weekor 2 because of an injury to my shoulder and I do not even have an oven as of yet but I will be getting one the first part of the coming week. My real question is , how long AFTER you cast up a batch of bullets should you wait to coat them or does it matter .....Im sure that this has been asked but I haven't read the hole thread yet and at 8 or 9 thousand post that will take a while , thanks in advance
Tom

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Tom,
You can coat them as soon as they reach room temperature.

[kmrra]

Thanks HiTek , , Great bunch of guys here

[wlkjr]

Tom, yesterday I cast about 1200 .380 that dropped out at about 98 grains. After letting them cool down I split them into 3 groups in small plastic coffee cans. I poured some acetone into the first can and put the top on and sloshed and shook them, then poured the acetone into the next can, then into the third. I poured each can into one of my mesh cooking trays and spread them out to dry. Before going to the house to eat supper I turned on the toaster oven to preheat for about 30 minutes. After supper it was back to the shop and coat each tray and put under the box fan to dry for about 15 minutes. Cooked each tray of 400 for about 12 minutes. Ironically, I had an extra 400 raw boolits that I had made about 3 months ago so I put them into a tray of their own but coated all out of the same mix. Three trays came out the same color but that tray of older boolits was a different shade. I was using Kryptonite Green.
When I went to remove the last tray from the oven I shot some of the boolits with an infared thermometer and they all read 400 degrees F. There was approximately 6 lbs. in each tray.

[kmrra]

sounds good to me thanks for the info to all

[kmrra]

thats what im going to try first the the superman green LOL

[Ausglock]

Have I ever said that I am a Huge fan of Metallica???

\m/

[slide]

I like whiskey in the jar!(the song)

[Krieger82]

So question, what would thw result of too mich catalyst in the mix be?

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[slide]

Are you using the liquid?

[Ausglock]

So question, what would thw result of too mich catalyst in the mix be?

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Nothing.
The extra catalyst will just fume off during baking.
It is a waste of Catalyst though...

[Krieger82]

Nothing.
The extra catalyst will just fume off during baking.
It is a waste of Catalyst though...
Ok. I think I may have got a bit too much in first mix. I was having some flaky issues and wondered if that may be the cause

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[kmrra]

Well I have my oven set and all tuned up waiting for my baskets to arrive and then I will try out the HiTek stuff, another post on here inspired me to order an upgrade kit for my lee pot , this reloading stuff was supposed to save me money LOL

[TonyN]

Hi-TeK or ausiglock.

I'm doing the 44 Keith Style and I was talking to Donny on the phone and we talked about 3 coats of coating at the 20 grams to 100 ML acetone as that at 3 coats it would be to thick with 3 coats. So he said when you try to coat the whole 44 Keith Style he recomends that I should do a very then layer of a separate batch of coating by itself to just add color and not so much protection. So what do you recommend as a mixture? I just want to get the lead to be covered when the SWC area is. When I put 2 coats on at the 1ML per Lb I can't get the SWC area to cover up.

[Ausglock]

Mix 20gms to 150mls for first coat. Still use 6mls per 2.5kg of alloy


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[Gremlin460]

****** GUYS!!! Nearly a week of no posts in this thread!, I was hoping everyone had finally got it!!

[HI-TEK]

****** GUYS!!! Nearly a week of no posts in this thread!, I was hoping everyone had finally got it!!


You forget, many simply like the social contact aspects....

[Ausglock]

188791

188792

[kmrra]

Trevor are those Government Issue pills

[Ausglock]

Hitek Joe's secret stash......lol

[Avenger442]

You forget, many simply like the social contact aspects....



My wife says I'm anti social so that can't be the reason I post.

188935

[Ausglock]

My wife says I'm anti social so that can't be the reason I post.

188817

Funny....Mine says the exact same thing...

[TonyN]

Mix 20gms to 150mls for first coat. Still use 6mls per 2.5kg of alloy


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If I still do 2 coats it's not going to fully cover the 44 Keith Style bullet tho. If I do 2 coats of 20 grams 100 no acetone then 3rd coat the 150 ml acetone and 20 grams powder it would be safe wouldn't it? I seem to get a lot more chipping if I do 3 coats of the 20 grams 100 ml acetone. I'm wondering what the commercial casters do to totally cover the SWC bullets.

[Ausglock]

Tony. I do the 200gn SWC 45 bullets with 2 coats at 20gms to 100mls. There is a bit of bare lead at the junction of the shoulder.
But....If it doesn't touch the bore, I don't care if it isn't coated.

So.. have you figured out what you were doing wrong with your process?
No good worrying about SWC coverage if they are still not coated correctly.
Bit like the cart before the horse.......

[TonyN]

I used sulfur to fix the problem. They are working properly now.

[Echd]

Lee "Modern Minie" .50 boolits, 3 coats:

http://i.imgur.com/EjAsmzQ.jpg

NEI spire point 50 boolits, GC'd, 3 coats:

http://i.imgur.com/eOKv17E.jpg

Mihec 125-2R No grooves, 2 coats:

http://i.imgur.com/jJRp6pS.jpg

Looking forward especially to light 500 loads with the Lee minie. It weighs in around 350 gr. The spire point is slightly over 400, averaged around 403.

[HI-TEK]

I used sulfur to fix the problem. They are working properly now.

TonyN,
I am puzzled.
You asked for advice, how to clean your contaminated alloy.
Others as well as I, supplied you an option to clean out Zinc and other "reactive" metals from your contaminated alloy, and suggested using Copper Sulphate.
You then replied, and was questioning fumes and or toxicity aspects when using Copper Sulphate.
From what I can tell from lack of adequate responses from you about the Copper Sulphate advice, you instead opted to use Sulphur, which produces a nasty toxic, corrosive, choking gaseous product.
I note, that you did not mention nor raise any toxicity or irritating fumes questions before, or after you used Sulphur as cleaning agent.
I know you say that Sulphur worked, but when you compare Copper Sulphate, and Sulphur, I know which I would use in preference, and it is definitely not Sulphur.
I can understand why some folk are becoming reluctant to supply advice, as advice provided, seems to be simply ignored and not even tried.
Apology for my "pointy" comment, but that is how I feel about things.

[TonyN]

I used sulfur to fix the problem. They are working properly now.

I'm on a tight budget so I was reading about sulfur so I did the cheaper option.

[HI-TEK]

I used sulfur to fix the problem. They are working properly now.

I'm on a tight budget so I was reading about sulfur so I did the cheaper option.

TonyN

I understand a budget as reason for you using Sulphur, rand I can accept is as being valid basis.
So, from what can be deduced from your current advice is, that your diversion questions, about toxicity of using Copper Sulphate, was really not the reason why you did not use it.
I initially assumed, that you had real health concern issues, with using materials that may be not good for your health, (not that Copper Sulphate use was a problem).
However, my assuming things about your alleged health concerns with Copper Sulphate toxicity matters, was totally incorrect.
From your advice, now it seems with your reply, that you had no such health concerns/reservations in using toxic materials to clean your alloy.

[Avenger442]

Joe
Since you have broached that subject of health concern and copper sulfate again, do you know of any? Because some on this forum are using it for enrichment of alloy with copper, was just wondering if there might be something we should be concerned with. Most of us do not have the luxury of a fume hood to work with. When it comes to noxious vapors we just take it outside.

Your working with chemicals and in a lab is an invaluable resource here. Is your education in chemistry?

188900 Hi Tek loaded and ready for the range again.

188901 Going to mount this scavenged scope, off an old Remington hunting rifle I'm selling, onto the Marlin to see if I can get better groups. For me, the performance of Hi Tek has been very good. But sometimes my eyes and hands with iron sights do not perform that well.

Both photos loaded upside down again. Can't ever seem to get that straight.

[TonyN]

I used sulfur to fix the problem. They are working properly now.

I'm on a tight budget so I was reading about sulfur so I did the chea
per option.

No Sir. I didn't want to pay 15. On something if I can pay 5.00 on another product that will clean the material. Its amazing how much better the material works.

[Grmps]

Joe is a Chemical engineer and an Industrial Chemist.

I also am interested in health concerns with Copper Sulphate and the best / safest way to alloy copper with lead.

[HI-TEK]

Joe is a Chemical engineer and an Industrial Chemist.

I also am interested in health concerns with Copper Sulphate and the best / safest way to alloy copper with lead.

Copper Sulphate,
This stuff has been used as a fungicide on fruit trees and Grapes, and to kill invading roots of plants in sewer pipes.
It is sold in many hardware stores, agricultural supplies, under various names such as Blue Stone and Copper Sulphate and is corrosive towards many metals.
Attached is the safety data sheet.
In applications for cleaning Lead, as long as temperatures are kept below decomposition of Copper Sulphate, (according to MSDS), around 400C, the reaction is a simple metal exchange process with little or no volatile gasses until you exceed 400C.
Say Zinc is the target metal to remove, the Zinc is exchanged to deposit Copper, and Zinc is then locked into a salt Zinc Sulphate which forms powder scum on surface of Lead. The deposited Copper tends to mix into the Molten Lead, but some will remain with scum on surface.
Reaction mode;
Zn + CuSO4= Cu (metal) + ZnSO4 This reaction is easily demonstrated with a water solution of the Copper Sulphate and immersing a steel nail into the water, there is an immediate reaction of Steel replacing Copper from solution which is visible. Same reaction with Zinc and other active metals.
With using Sulphur, this stuff ignites easily and burns to produce large volumes of Sulphur Dioxide. This gas is a choking corrosive gas. The mode of reaction with base metals such as Zinc will depend on ability of the Sulphur or its Oxide, to become in contact with the Zinc metal. As Sulphur is volatile, a great deal is lost as sublimation, and acidic gas formation when ignited.
As comparison, I prefer the Copper Sulphate method, as there is a direct one to one exchange of metals as per reaction mode above. Whilst there is Copper Sulphate present, it continues to exchange with other undesirable reactive metals. With Sulphur, there is a lot that is lost due to its property. I am not saying that it does not work, but am sceptical about its efficiency versus costs, and my way of thinking, I don't like the acidic fumes that are generated.
[ATTACH]188922 ATTACH]188926

[Avenger442]

Thanks Joe for the info.

So it looks like from reading the MSDS that copper sulfate is relatively safe until it is heated above 750 F. I don't have a thermometer on my smelting operation so will probably use the Lee pot with the PID to help keep it safe. And, will do outside because of the wife with atomic sense of smell. She can smell the smallest things. Things I don't even notice. I guess I worked too many years around construction jobs. There is always some smell to ignore on the job.

Got about 10 lbs of bullets to coat next week while it's raining. Haven't decided on the color yet but will probably be the Black 1035. That's already mixed and ready to go. These are hollow points for the 45-70. Will post photo later. Probably upside down. They all are lately.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Avenger442;3963532]Thanks Joe for the info.

So it looks like from reading the MSDS that copper sulfate is relatively safe until it is heated above 750 F. I don't have a thermometer on my smelting operation so will probably use the Lee pot with the PID to help keep it safe. And, will do outside because of the wife with atomic sense of smell. She can smell the smallest things. Things I don't even notice. I guess I worked too many years around construction jobs. There is always some smell to ignore on the job.


As I have tried to indicate in my previous blogs also, it all boils down on peoples perceptions of what works and what does not. Sulphur does work. Efficiency ??? is questionable. Hazards is high, costs over all, is questionable with efficiency being experienced..

What has annoyed me is, that when many had provided advice, after user, had allegedly months of coating failures, without disclosing that he had contaminated Lead, the costs associated with having to cast, coat & bake, and repeat these failure processes over and over and over, re- smelting the failures, plus associated labour costs had never been considered at all.
Then, to use another Lead treatment method, to save a few bucks, and generate toxic fumes, I could not understand that rationale.
Further, it was insinuated that Copper Sulphate was toxic. Then, using Sulphur as alternative was decided being a better choice, simply based on cost saving on initial purchase price differences between Sulphur and Copper Sulphate. Whilst there is Copper Sulphate present on surface of molten alloy, it will continue to scavenge unwanted metals. Sulphur would not do that, as it would boil away/evaporate, or catch fire and be wasted, well before it had done its job.

With Copper Sulphate, there should be no fume emissions until the stuff is heated to destruction temperatures above 400C.
Even if those temperatures are reached, the fumes generated from Copper Sulphate, would be significantly lower, (probably 60-70% less) that was being produced by Sulphur at much lower temperatures.

Talk about working in Industry, I used to work at a company, where Tonnes of Sulphur was burned daily, to produce anhydrous Sulphuric Acid gas, SO3..
The process was very well contained with strict emission controls being in place. I could not imagine what would have happened if the tons of molten Sulphur caught fire. There would have to be a whole town evacuation. I was working within 30 yards from plant, and if it went off, I would not be here..

[Warhead]

People are amazing, in all sorts of ways is all I have to say about that, coming from someone that works at a range.

Anyway just wanted to let ya'll know that the 375 H&H project it giving me a hard time, it will shoot two or three bullets into a nice 2-3 inch group at 100 yrds, then throw a flier 5-6 inchs out of the group, I even went as far thinking it was me as to let 3 other people that are known good shooters have at it with the gun and same thing resulted. Next I tried a different powder, I switched to IMR 8208XBR, and was still getting the same results. But one that I have to say has been just incredible is, with 8208, and the Hi-Tek at 2500 fps, after 50 rounds you look down the barrel, and swear it hasn't been fired, its is that clean!

I am thinking now it is something with that way I am casting the bullets. Next thing is when I cast more bullets, I am going to weigh each bullet, and segregate by wight to see if that helps, but if any of you have any suggestions I am all ears!

Also 'nother plug for K15 black that stuff is by far the easiest of all the colors to use, and is slick as could be when run though the sizer!

[Gremlin460]

last time i had a similar issue WarHead was a sizing problem verses bore size, I was sizing at 356 , I changed to 358 after slugging the bore and the groups tightened and the flyers disapeared apart from the ones I caused.

[dikman]

Avenger, that is very thoughtful of you, thinking of us Aussies when posting photos, but honestly, you don't have to post them upside down just for us.:bigsmyl2:

[Grmps]

Cheers Joe,

I read somewhere that the copper would replace the zinc first then tin and finally antimony. Is this true?
What percentage of copper can you achieve before it quits alloying.
How long would it take to alloy a 20 pound batch and approximately how much copper sulfate would it take?
can you control the amount of copper alloyed by the amount of zinc / tin in the lead , lets say I used pure lead and added 5 % zinc. would the solution keep accepting/alloying the copper sulfate until I had 5% copper?

due to the yellow base of Hi-Tek is it possible /have you tried bright pink (for the ladies) or bright yellow or is that a chemical impossibility.

warhead, +1 on segregating bullets by weight and slugging the bore. I would also look into double checking the powder charge for each load.

[Ausglock]

There is a Yellow. But gold 1035 is better

[HI-TEK]

Cheers Joe,

I read somewhere that the copper would replace the zinc first then tin and finally antimony. Is this true
Yes it is true. In terms of reactivity, and it greatly depends on atomic table of elements, where each metal is placed in respect to reactivity. Zinc being more reactive and will be removed in preference to Tin and Antimony. Once Zinc is gone, then the Copper sulphate will start on Tin in preference, but it will also start to remove Antimony at reduced rate.

What percentage of copper can you achieve before it quits alloying.
If you have a lot of Zinc, The Copper Sulphate will keep on working until it is all gone. Gross contamination will also make Copper Sulphate not economical to use.The problem is, that if you have a gross contamination with Zinc, high temperature furnacing is used to burn off Zinc to form Zinc Oxide, which is skimmed off. Home hobbyists should not ever do this. It requires very high temperatures and as a result you get strong Lead vapours form as well.

How long would it take to alloy a 20 pound batch and approximately how much copper sulfate would it take?
Usage rate of Copper Sulphate will depend on just how much Zinc is present. If you don't know how much Zinc you have, it is very difficult to guess how much Copper Sulphate is required. You simply add some, mix and see colour change. When change is complete, add a little more, mix and observe. When colour change is not so apparent, you can try to cast a few, and examine after casting with hardness and appearance of cast.

can you control the amount of copper alloyed by the amount of zinc / tin in the lead , lets say I used pure lead and added 5 % zinc. would the solution keep accepting/alloying the copper sulfate until I had 5% copper
In theory it is correct, but I do not know solubility of precipitated Copper in molten alloy. A lot may depend on how well you mix during reaction so the Copper is in contact with molten alloy at maximum time. Again in theory, due to the fine nature of produced Copper it does help with surface area solubilising aspects into the alloy.

due to the yellow base of Hi-Tek is it possible /have you tried bright pink (for the ladies) or bright yellow or is that a chemical impossibility.
I have made a Bright Yellow, but it turned to a Desert sand colour. Pink, is out of the question, as none are stable. The Closest is Red 122.

warhead, +1 on segregating bullets by weight and slugging the bore. I would also look into double checking the powder charge for each load.

I am wondering if Gunoil can shed some light on this subject. Here is Aus, we don't have much with use in Rifles, and, I have limited feed back due to commercial casters directly dealing with end use customers. I don't get back much information at all.

[eljefeoz]

Newb Hiteker checking in.
got the Bronze 502 from Joe last week.
seems like inspite of reading / printing out relevant posts and memorising the instructions, many variables do creep in
first few 286 grain PB for my 9.3x62 ended up very dark brown. As did the Lee 155 gr 0.312 for the 7.62x39.
passed the smash test.
am now down to 1ml per handful of projjies and a 20 sec shake.
6 min at 180*C ( in my 10 buck GUMTREE toaster oven ) open, pull out tray, shake and mix, close door and 6 min more gave a a beautiful batch of 400 gr Lee Cb for a mate's 45-70.
For good measure we cooled them down, coated and repeated 2 more cycles.
ended looking almost like the old copper jacketed SN I have childhood memories of, in the red and yellow Kynoch cartons.

Thanks Fellas, it works.

Am not going to build a PID ( I have made and used RTD's in my younger days )but I think I now know the solution mix, dwell time and my equipment- I need 180*c in MY oven.
Pics when I figure out how to retrieve The photo bucket account.

Test st firing hopefully next weekend.
i hope to do up some .425" 400 grainers for my .404 too.

[Avenger442]

Joe

I'll give you some feed back on rifles.

I have shot Hi Tek coated bullets in .223, .308, .44 and now in 45-70 rifles. All except the .44 were shot at targets 100 yards away.

Your first point of interest as far as lubricant in rifles is the lubricant running out before the bullet reaches the end of the barrel. Properly applied Hi Tek does not do this when all other considerations with casting and reloading are taken care of.

The next thing is if accuracy can be maintained using the Hi Tek. I have one five shot group out of the .308, if you discount a flyer that made it close to 2", that was under an inch using Hi Tek. That's four shots under an inch. Repeatable five shot groups are 1 1/2" in the .223 and .308 at 100 yards. Some will argue the point but, anything grouping three inches and under is good enough to hunt with. The only time I wasn't able to achieve groups out of my rifles that grouped 3" or under (the majority under 2") was when I did not adhere to some other requirement of reloading or was using iron sights. On the last one that's probably me not the gun, round or the Hi Tek. Would be happy to supply some photos as I have done with some of my post. Here is the under an inch group of four.
188983

Another consideration is cleanliness of the barrel after use. I also have had the experience of firing Hi Tek in my rifles and the barrel looks clean and shiny. It doesn't happen all the time but most of it is powder residue when it's dirty. On this note, I agree with Trevor that the Gold 1035 is excellent. Still using the first batch of liquid Gold 1035 I bought when I started three years ago. I know we have said it countless times but, this stuff goes a long way.


I have only two minor complaints. The first is not very significant. With some of the powder coatings I have used there will be a small mount of color come off during the rub test for curing, even though they are properly cured. Trevor said something about a little too much color in some of the powders. In any case, these bullets will deposit some of that color in the rifle barrel which cleans right out with wet and dry patches. It is not a hard deposit like some have gotten shooting improperly cured bullets. More like powder residue. The second complaint is one that I know your working on :wink:. I still don't have the Auburn University colors orange and blue so I can irritate the Alabama fans at the shooting range.:kidding:

I would not call myself a professional caster coater but over all Hi Tek has been an enjoyable addition to my casting, loading and shooting hobby. And I appreciate you Aussies sharing it with us.

[Ausglock]

Avenger.
The colour on the paper towel is no longer an issue.
This was the case with initial batches of the powdered HITEK.
Joe has since tweeked the formulas and there is now no colour rub off from correctly baked coating.

I have completely swapped over from liquid Kryptonite Green to the powder. Excellent results in both coating and shooting.
Far more consistant colour from mix batch to mix batch.

[dikman]

Grmps, regarding the antimony I seem to recall reading in, I think, the casting section of this forum that as far as we home users are concerned it is virtually impossible to separate the antimony once it's in the mix. I could be wrong here, of course, as I've read so much on this forum that it's hard to keep track, and if I'm wrong I'm happy to be corrected.

[Avenger442]

Avenger.
The colour on the paper towel is no longer an issue.
This was the case with initial batches of the powdered HITEK.
Joe has since tweeked the formulas and there is now colour rub off from correctly baked coating.

I have completely swapped over from liquid Kryptonite Green to the powder. Excellent results in both coating and shooting.
Far more consistant colour from mix batch to mix batch.

So is there a recall on the untweaked?:bigsmyl2: I'm glad that has been corrected. The first time it happened to me I thought I didn't have them cured so I baked them longer and when it still did the rub off is when I asked about it the first time.

I have been trying to get around to ordering some Gold 1035 liquid from Donnie. Has his Gold 1035 powder been swapped out to the tweaked version?

[17nut]

I did my first bullets and is happy as a pig in mud :)

7.65x21 Parabellum (.30 Luger)

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/765%20Parabellum/IMG_0063_zpsw1ygewzc.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Chickenthief/media/Skydning/765%20Parabellum/IMG_0063_zpsw1ygewzc.jpg.html)

Superman beware!:
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/765%20Parabellum/IMG_0065_zpsqhbqjuee.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Chickenthief/media/Skydning/765%20Parabellum/IMG_0065_zpsqhbqjuee.jpg.html)

[HI-TEK]

So is there a recall on the untweaked?:bigsmyl2:
There was no need for recall. some traces of colour removal is not an issue, as coating was bonded, which the intention.
Subsequent coatings finish to seal system with second and third bakes.
Just to be clear, the solvent test, is used to ensure that first coating, will stay bonded to alloy, and, if solvent removes coating, with solvent test, the application of second coats will act like a paint stripper, and the whole lot will come off. Colour Bleed is not indication of coating coming off.


I'm glad that has been corrected. The first time it happened to me I thought I didn't have them cured so I baked them longer and when it still did the rub off is when I asked about it the first time.

I have been trying to get around to ordering some Gold 1035 liquid from Donnie. Has his Gold 1035 powder been swapped out to the tweaked version?used by rein baking,
The colour bleed occurred with the Reds. These were over loaded initially to try to overcome the browning effect of the baked resin.

[eljefeoz]

380 Gr 50-50 WW:lead from a Hoch mould, for the .404 Jeffery


<br />https://thumb.ibb.co/e44LDv/IMG_3308.jpg (https://ibb.co/e44LDv)<br /><br />https://thumb.ibb.co/hXd2RF/IMG_3309.jpg (https://ibb.co/hXd2RF)<br /><br />https://thumb.ibb.co/d3BYYv/IMG_3312.jpg (https://ibb.co/d3BYYv)<br /><br />image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)<br />

[Avenger442]

Joe
The recall was a joke. Really not much of a problem. Cleans out of barrel like powder residue. The colors I had that trouble with was Dark Blue and Black 1035 I believe.

eljefeoz
From what I can see they look good to me. Is that two or three coats? If they passed the rub test, loadem and shootem.

[Ausglock]

So is there a recall on the untweaked?:bigsmyl2:

Yes there is.
If you send it all back to HITEK Joe, he will re-imburse you the shipping costs and send at his expense, double the amount originally purchased and send it freight free to your door. when it arrives, Joe will personally come and coat your bullets for you.

[eljefeoz]

eljefeoz
From what I can see they look good to me. Is that two or three coats? If they passed the rub test, loadem and shootem.

3 coats. The loading an shooting is on the cards , this weekend ������

[Avenger442]

Yes there is.
If you send it all back to HITEK Joe, he will re-imburse you the shipping costs and send at his expense, double the amount originally purchased and send it freight free to your door. when it arrives, Joe will personally come and coat your bullets for you.


I haven't seen the bullets Joe coats but I have seen yours. So I was wondering if you would come do some for me.

All joking aside, maybe you and Joe could come to visit Donnie sometime and let all of us coaters know so we could show up in Louisiana for some face to face fun.

[Ausglock]

Sorry. No can do.
Joe isn't allowed into the USA.
He had a huge fight years ago with Ronald Reagan before he was President.
Joe and Ronny were going for the same movie part and Joe won.
Ronnie never forgave him. So, when Ronnie was made President, his first decree was a lifetime Ban on Joe ever entering the USA.
You probably saw Joe in the movie?
The Creature from the Black Lagoon...Joe was the Creature. he got the part cause he didn't need any makeup........:bigsmyl2:

[Avenger442]

Sorry. No can do.
Joe isn't allowed into the USA.
He had a huge fight years ago with Ronald Reagan before he was President.
Joe and Ronny were going for the same movie part and Joe won.
Ronnie never forgave him. So, when Ronnie was made President, his first decree was a lifetime Ban on Joe ever entering the USA.
You probably saw Joe in the movie?
The Creature from the Black Lagoon...Joe was the Creature. he got the part cause he didn't need any makeup........:bigsmyl2:

I never knew Ronny held that kind of grudge.

So what's your excuse? Time, money, or did Obama tell you you couldn't come because you like guns?:Fire:

We got rid of him (almost) in the last election you know. :bootgive:

[eljefeoz]

What coating did Joe use for the 'Black' of the black lagoon ? ;)

[Ausglock]

What coating did Joe use for the 'Black' of the black lagoon ? ;)

Blue ring Octopus Black.
They will not let me into the USA... My Tourettes is really bad and upsets the Snowflakes.

[dikman]

Getting a bit warm up there, Trev? Sounds like you've gone a bit troppo......;).

[Ausglock]

Nope. it's starting to cool off. First week we haven't had anything above 35.
A few inches of rain has been very welcome too.
Joe isn't answering his phone. probably out running around naked in the rain :veryconfu

[eljefeoz]

Blue ring Octopus Black.
They will not let me into the USA... My Tourettes is really bad and upsets the Snowflakes.


must have glowed in the dark. Will be interesting to see glow in the dark coating. I think its a good idea to keep you 2 national treasures here, or the yanks will keep you all for good ;)

I Got a 2nd batch done with 3 coats of thin coating.They've come out better than the ones in pics above.Just finished gas checking a dozen for a go on the weekend with 65 gr 2209.
Cheers

[cozfromoz]

Hi all I'm a new member and this is my first post .... I would like to know from any of the Aussie members where I can purchase this Product

[eljefeoz]

welcome aboard the colour splattered fun house.
PM Joe Ban aka the colourful chemist.
cheers

[cozfromoz]

thank you it is much appreciated

[Ausglock]

thank you it is much appreciated



You'll be sorry.....lol

[Gremlin460]

OH Great, now there are 2 shooters in NSW!!




Hi all I'm a new member and this is my first post .... I would like to know from any of the Aussie members where I can purchase this Product

[Avenger442]

I think its a good idea to keep you 2 national treasures here, or the yanks will keep you all for good ;)

We have had a few Aussies come over here that have stayed. Some of them we would give back to you if they would go. Like Nicole Kidman. On the other hand the vast majority we would like to keep. We could move Joe's operation over here. Got plenty of factory space. Move Trevor and his wife into a nice three bedroom house with a work shop here in Alabama. Joe could make coating and Trevor could coat and shoot them through anything he would like to shoot them through. Even full auto if he wanted to go through the bureaucracy tied to the license.

I thought I was going to get some coating done this week but things keep happening. Maybe Saturday?

It's been a warm winter here. Already in the 70s (21C to you guys having summer) the humidity has picked up. Looking at mowing grass in a few weeks. But like they say here in Alabama "If you don't like the weather today don't worry it will change tomorrow". We have some of our largest snows in March and April, our spring time. And the temp will be 1 C.

Trevor I think Joe is taking some time off and gone fishing. Does he bring them by your place when he catches a few?

[Ausglock]

welcome aboard the colour splattered fun house.
email Joe Ban cheers


PM sent.......

[Ausglock]

We have had a few Aussies come over here that have stayed. Some of them we would give back to you if they would go. Like Nicole Kidman. On the other hand the vast majority we would like to keep. We could move Joe's operation over here. Got plenty of factory space. Move Trevor and his wife into a nice three bedroom house with a work shop here in Alabama. Joe could make coating and Trevor could coat and shoot them through anything he would like to shoot them through. Even full auto if he wanted to go through the bureaucracy tied to the license.

I thought I was going to get some coating done this week but things keep happening. Maybe Saturday?

It's been a warm winter here. Already in the 70s (21C to you guys having summer) the humidity has picked up. Looking at mowing grass in a few weeks. But like they say here in Alabama "If you don't like the weather today don't worry it will change tomorrow". We have some of our largest snows in March and April, our spring time. And the temp will be 1 C.

Trevor I think Joe is taking some time off and gone fishing. Does he bring them by your place when he catches a few?

Ha... Joe??? Share???? Hahahahaha... Wouldn't shout if a shark bit him...

If I were to move to the USA, It would be Georgia, Missouri or South Dakota.
Joe would probably go to florida to retire and let the warmth sooth his weary bones.

[wlkjr]

Ha... Joe??? Share???? Hahahahaha... Wouldn't shout if a shark bit him...

If I were to move to the USA, It would be Georgia, Missouri or South Dakota.
Joe would probably go to florida to retire and let the warmth sooth his weary bones.
It's very pleasant here in middle Georgia. Then I could get firsthand lessons and maybe swap out for some good steaks.

[Ausglock]

I just want another Colt AR-15HBAR like the one our government stole from me back in 1996.

[slide]

This is for Ausglock. Which do you prefer, Acetone or MEK?

[Ausglock]

This is for Ausglock. Which do you prefer, Acetone or MEK?

Acetone is cheaper, But flashes off quicker in Summer.
MEK is expensive, But gives longer swirl time.
I use both.

[Gremlin460]

I think he is more a Scotch Person myself....



This is for Ausglock. Which do you prefer, Acetone or MEK?

[slide]

I tried bourbon but it didn't mix with the powder very well. I will try the scotch.

[eljefeoz]

I tried bourbon but it didn't mix with the powder very well. I will try the scotch.
You need to re read the instructions.
2" of scotch down the hatch, ruminate and mix well,THEN mix the mix ! ;)

[slide]

So that is what I have been doing wrong.

[TonyN]

I shot my projectiles with my glock 21 and has great results. But shot 9mm g17 and had leading. My Range lead is testing at 10 BRN. Need info on how to harden alloy? I tried Water quenching after 2nd coat and it leased as I explained. Would the Copper sulfate be the best option?
I'm not able to buy linotype so that is out of the options.

[HI-TEK]

I shot my projectiles with my glock 21 and has great results. But shot 9mm g17 and had leading. My Range lead is testing at 10 BRN. Need info on how to harden alloy? I tried Water quenching after 2nd coat and it leased as I explained. Would the Copper sulfate be the best option?
I'm not able to buy linotype so that is out of the options.

Why don't you just look at on this web site where they talk and advise about quench hardening.
Not all alloys will be suitable for quench hardening.
If you were already aware that your 9mm was too soft, why are you surprised at poor results obtained?

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

I shot my projectiles with my glock 21 and has great results. But shot 9mm g17 and had leading. My Range lead is testing at 10 BRN. Need info on how to harden alloy? I tried Water quenching after 2nd coat and it leased as I explained. Would the Copper sulfate be the best option?
I'm not able to buy linotype so that is out of the options.

The search function is your friend: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-52686.html

[HI-TEK]

I shot my projectiles with my glock 21 and has great results. But shot 9mm g17 and had leading. My Range lead is testing at 10 BRN. Need info on how to harden alloy? I tried Water quenching after 2nd coat and it leased as I explained. Would the Copper sulfate be the best option?
I'm not able to buy linotype so that is out of the options.



May be you can try this recipes. Who knows they might just work.

10lbs lead
3ozs tin
two silverplated soup spoons and a seafood fork
Makes 11 lbs Lyman #2 alloy

9lbs stick-on ww's
1lb linotype
One silverplated butterknife and a gravy ladle
Makes 11lbs 'hardball' alloy

[TonyN]

I wasn't 100% sure about how they would perform. I wanted to check first before to see results.

[TonyN]

OR maybe my barrel to sizing is off. I just thought about that. I need to slug the barrel.

[eljefeoz]

This is for HiTek

Gday Joe
I found a bag of Lee 12 ga 1oz key slugs I had cast from dead soft Flashing lead.
gave them a swirl- 40 sec, baked at 200*C ( new oven thermometer ;) ) for 8 min and thats the finest coverage I've gotten, to date. beautiful even colour, slick as snot...
pics in a while
Seems there's no real hardness factor ? I smashed 2 , to be safe, and not a flake came off.

Comments appreciated

[Ausglock]

Have coated soft lead 12ga slugs. no issues.

[eljefeoz]

Thanks ,Trev:lovebooli

[Avenger442]

Donnie
PM sent.

[TonyN]

2 coats but seems to have light spots. Is this the proper coating for Black Cherry? 100 ML acetone to 20 grams powder. 1ML to 1 lb.
I'm really liking the Kryptonite green

[HI-TEK]

2 coats but seems to have light spots. Is this the proper coating for Black Cherry? 100 ML acetone to 20 grams powder. 1ML to 1 lb.
I'm really liking the Kryptonite green

TonyN
This type of result is generally caused by tumble coating too long until you are getting a sticky surface. This causes uneven coats, which will not level out with baking. That is why you are getting an uneven finish.

[Ausglock]

TonyN
This type of result is generally caused by tumble coating too long until you are getting a sticky surface. This causes uneven coats, which will not level out with baking. That is why you are getting an uneven finish.

Yep......

[TonyN]

Ok... Thank you for all your guys help. I don't think Iv been tumbling that long. I'll go shorter.

Thank you

[HI-TEK]

Ok... Thank you for all your guys help. I don't think Iv been tumbling that long. I'll go shorter.

Thank you

TonyN,
This subject has been discussed many, many, many times on this blog.
Please follow the instructions you were provided by your supplier, and detailed advice provided by members of this site.
It is not Rocket Science.
Coat just long enough to use up added coating mixture and cover your alloy. Coating/shaking should not take more than 15 seconds for small lots.
Then simply dump, dry well, and then bake.
There is no advantage of shake coating for long periods. It is simply counter productive.
If you end up with coating mixture in your shake coat container, after shake coating for 15 seconds, you used too much coating.

[Ausglock]

TonyN,

If you end up with coating mixture in your shake coat container, after shake coating for 15 seconds, you used too much coating.
This means.....if there is more than a light staining of coating left in the bottom of the swirling container, You are using too much for the amount of bullets coated.

[Drop Bear]

Hi Trevor (Ausglock) and Joe (Hi Tek).
Another NSW Australia caster here.
I got my first lot of coating (K15 Black) last Friday in the mail. Spent all day Saturday and last night coating and I've got to say - I love the Hi Tek coating. I won't be going back to traditional lube now... Great stuff. Thanks Joe...
Michael

[Gremlin460]

Damn another NSW caster..... *Sigh*

[Ausglock]

Shutup Grem.
G'day Mick.
Where you at?

[Drop Bear]

Near Wyong on the Central Coast. I shoot a bit of single action but come from a service pistol background..

[Gremlin460]

YAY!!! at least you not a IPICAC shooter... not like some other dude on here!! :kidding:


Near Wyong on the Central Coast. I shoot a bit of single action but come from a service pistol background..

[Ausglock]

YAY!!! at least you not a IPICAC shooter... not like some other dude on here!! :kidding:

What are you trying to say, Princess???[smilie=s:

[Gremlin460]

What are you trying to say, Princess???[smilie=s:

Since this is a USA (unstable State of America) I am able to plead the 5th!![smilie=w:

[eljefeoz]

Damn another NSW caster..... *Sigh*


i feel SO alone, here in Vic...

[Ausglock]

i feel SO alone, here in Vic...

Serves you right for being down in Mexico.
But better than being a banana bender....

[eljefeoz]

ex banana bender. (Sings sadly) " the heat is gone..." but the sambar are here ;)

[Southern Son]

I was born and raised in NSW, thenmoved to Qld 21 years ago. From all of my experience, I have to say THANK GOD I'M NOT A VICTORIAN!!!!!!!!!!!:kidding:

[dikman]

Dunno, mate, given the current state of politics here in Oz I'm not sure if any one place is better than another....:(.

[eljefeoz]

I was born and raised in NSW, thenmoved to Qld 21 years ago. From all of my experience, I have to say THANK GOD I'M NOT A VICTORIAN!!!!!!!!!!!:kidding:

PTA in 45 min - on a bad day. Can't beat that for all the chain yanking ;)
5 years after coming in from Queensland, am still shivering though ...

Loaded up 6 HITEK coated Lee 1oz slugs in 2 1/2" factory shells for test in my Cashmore 12 bore.
Hope I can get some range time over the long weekend. Family wants to head down to Philip Island. Nope, am not going to coat the weights from the tackle box,as much as I am tempted to coat all things lead :lovebooli

[slide]

Another one for Ausglock or anyone with experience. Have you ever tried three coats on pistol bullets. If yes what were your results? I notice quite a few of the guys use three coats. I always do two but three wouldn't bother me. I really enjoy doing this stuff!

[Ausglock]

Yep. have done 3 coats. Usually of flat base bullet that have bad flashing at the base. Coat 1 then size then 2 coats and final size.
I have done 4 coats when testing new colours.
2 coats of the sample colour. take photos for Joe. test and them do 2 coats of Black K15 over the top.
Shoot fine.

[HI-TEK]

For people who wish to know, Ausglock has cut in half a 9mm projectile, that has had two coats of Hi-Tek baked on it.
He took a picture of the face of the half section.
The picture was enlarged drastically until projectiles was about 14cm wide.
Measurement was made of coating thickness, (2 coats), and, it was found that two coats produced about an average plus or minus, around 1.5 thou (0.038mm) to 1.8 thou (0.046mm), of coating around the alloy.

Same test was done on another competitor coating, and coating thickness varied from 0.162mm (6.38 thou) to 0.449mm (17.68 thou) on same projectile.
What was also discovered is, that the thickly coated competitor alloy was laying off centre (not parallel) inside coating, so when it is loaded into a barrel, the alloy was already not in an ideal position to travel in a straight line, as coating thickness on one side was pushing alloy at an angle of travel in the barrel.

Another interesting result was found, that shooting the opposition coated product into water tank, the coating had totally stripped from alloy.
When shooting Hi-Tek coated alloy into same water tank, the coating remained on alloy.

We are trying to get our heads around these results as to just what this all means.
No accuracy tests were done between two tested products.

[ioon44]

I shoot most of my Hi-Tek coated bullets in to bullet traps with rubber mulch and the coating is still bonded to the alloy where they haven't hit another bullet.

I have not done any close measurement of the coating but seems to add .001" to .002" to the bullets and don't have any problems sizing, some of them get sized down .004" to .005". The Aqua lube 5000 really helps with my star sizer.

I have just started shooting a 9 mm rifle with 16" barrel and get about 125 fps more velocity over the 5" pistol barrels with the same load, the Hi-Tek coating is working great in the rifle barrel.

[slide]

Hey Hi-Tek, anyway we could see the photo? That is very interesting.

[HI-TEK]

Hey Hi-Tek, anyway we could see the photo? That is very interesting.

Hello Slide,
I hope that I can attach them correctly.
As per Ausglocks comments, when picture of alloy coated with 2 coats of Kryptonite Green, was enlarged, Ausglock found it difficult to determine where alloy finished and coating started.
I found that the two coats
Kryptonite ( about 2 thou) is just visible and fairly even all around alloy.190390[ATTACH=CONFIG]190391 This is competitors190392

If measurements are made of coatings, the competitors coating seems applied ranging from 4 to 6 times thicker , and is uneven in thickness around alloy from one side to the other side. The discussions with this was that if the alloy is pushed more to one side inside barrel than opposite side, and is also forced to lay at a slight angle in the bore, (not parallel) because of the irregular coating, it is difficult to see, how alloy can travel aerodynamically out of the barrel or produce accurate results.
It was only a discussion, but as I said previously, no accuracy testing was done, so our postulations may be wrong, but if we do more tests as next project, we may determine more details, and results may either confirm or reject our thoughts.

[slide]

Thank you sir! Now that is about as cool as it gets. Amazing!

[HI-TEK]

Thank you sir! Now that is about as cool as it gets. Amazing!


Nooooo, that is not coooool, LOL LOL

if I recall, someone in US actually frozen the baked on coating down to minus 45C, (that is really cool), to see what would happen after getting back to room temperature.
Guess what, coating worked just fine.. I was most surprised, as I had never imagined nor tested coatings in such hostile conditions.

[slide]

When I was doing the wax lubes I would have trouble with it getting thin in the summer and to stiff in the winter. And need I mention,gumming up my dies and throwing off my seating depth. Hi-Tek, a lube for all seasons. Sounds like a commercial!!

[Michael J. Spangler]

Here's a question for your pros.
I coated some 311365s with 3 thin coats of red copper.
Loaded them to about 1350 FPS or so in 300 blackout. I got leading starting about halfway down the barrel all the way to the muzzle.
My alloy was 50/50 COWW and Pure. Water dropped after the last coating (has anyone measured how much water dropping after the last coating effects hardness?)
Is the leading a result of the fast twist? I've run this same alloy at about the same pressure and faster speeds out of a 357 lever gun with no issues.
My guess is that the 1:8 twist is a little much for the softer alloy and the bullet is skidding and not grabbing the rifling.

If not then I must have screwed up coating somehow. Though the finished product looked fine and passed all the tests. It has me scratching my head. I'm hoping it's just not enough hardness for the twist. Then I can up the alloy and be good to go.
As we speak I'm heating up the pot with 2/3/95 alloy for some lee 309-150f to try in the Blackout.

[Ausglock]

I'd say your first thought is correct. twist rate is too fast.

[popper]

You Aussies going to lose your guns again?

[Michael J. Spangler]

I'd say your first thought is correct. twist rate is too fast.


Well lets hope this alloy paired up with water dropping does the job. I just made a couple hundred or so to try. Boy 2 cavity moulds are slow. At least if I like it I can always buy a 6 banger

[dikman]

At this stage, I would so no (for now!). The "new and improved" National Firearms Agreement (one wonders if the original was so good why they have to change it :roll:) appears to be mainly tightening up on getting approval to purchase and also more stringent storage requirements - other than making it almost impossible to get a lever action shotgun with more than 5 round magazine capacity! According to the opponents, these are "modern, rapid-fire assault weapons and must be banned", doesn't seem to have gotten through their thick skulls that the technology is over 130 years old!!!!
The draft that was released had a "typo" that would have virtually banned all handgun sports except Single-action and Metallic Silhouette. They said it was a typo, but one can't help but wonder.....
They are also trying to put the onus on handgun clubs to check on members' storage requirements!! This is a police function, not club officials. Lots more little things, but they are currently under discussion.

[Ausglock]

You Aussies going to lose your guns again?

No way.
There will be blood in the streets if they try it again..
We are far more politically aware now. We have Pro-gun politicians in place now and One Nation Party. The General everyday aussie has had a gutfull of the PC rubbish and are now voicing their views by supporting One Nation.
We even have a Shooter, Fishers and Farmers Party that has a few pollies on a position of power where their votes are needed in the horse trading game that is politics.
The major parties are running scared and the Mainstream media are supporting them with fake news and anti-gun beatup stories.

My bosses always said that Australia was about 10 years behind the USA. What has happened in the USA with the people voting for Trump as President will happen here in time.

[wlkjr]

But unfortunately you still don't have our freedoms. However, I do love your Hi-Tek.:p

[cozfromoz]

first attempt 174gn 303 came out beautiful
190579190578190576

[hermans]

This is for the guys "down under in Oz", I live in South Africa and would like to get my hands on some Hi-Tek powder. I did email them from them, but no answer.
I have a friend that goes to Perth regularly, would she be able to purchase some if it there, or is it only available in NSW?

[hermans]

Sorry for the typo....I did email them from the website, but no answer

[Ausglock]

PM sent.

[eljefeoz]

first attempt 174gn 303 came out beautiful
190579190578190576

yup. Looking good. What powders and loads?

[slide]

Today I did something that I guess you could say was just luck. All my pistol and revolver bullets are Hi-tek coated. Loaded up some 158 swc with two coats of the zombie green. 3.2 grains of titegroup powder. This is the first time I have used titegroup with Hi-tek bullets. I remembered with wax lubed lead bullets that after around twelve to eighteen rounds the barrel would get hot. With caution I felt the barrel and it was just warm,not hot like before. This is a model 64 Smith & Wesson 38 caliber revolver. So, I ran fifty rounds through the gun at a steady pace and again the barrel was just warm. Talked to Joe and he confirmed what I was seeing. To me this is amazing. I know I bounced around on this post,sorry. One more bounce the revolver is stainless. This gun was bought years ago as a police trade in and has not missed a beat. I wished I had kept track of all the rounds put through it.

[Avenger442]

Slide
That Titegroup is a hot little powder. Have to be careful down to a tenth of a grain when closing in on max loads. I had a problem with my powder measure while loading some 44 magnum. Hi Tek bullets of course. The first three shots felt like max loads even though I thought I was in the middle of the load data. Should have stopped there. The next one, way too stout, locked up the cylinder on my Ruger stainless. Had to take the thing apart to fix it. And disassembled the rest of the rounds. But the barrel was clean.

[Ausglock]

Titegroup is available here. It is popular with the cowboy shooters.

I like Win 540 and Alliant 2400 in my 44Mag with JHP full power loads.
I use ADI AP-70 for cast loads at moderate vels.

[slide]

Avenger442, That 3.2 is a starting load from the Hodgon reloading data site. 3.8 is the max load. Not much from one to another. I think I will stay with the starting load. I do appreciate your thinking about my safety. Are you still using titegroup?

[slide]

Ausglock,you can't get much better than 2400 in hot loads! I am 65 now and don't care for the barnburners anymore. I have shot a lot of them over the years.

[Avenger442]

Ausglock
Do you know what US equivalent to ADI AP-70 is?

Slide
Still use it. Wife bought me one of those fancy Hornady electronic powder dispensers. It is helping me stay out of trouble with the Titegroup.

Know what you mean about the age. I'm 66 and while my mind still says I can do it my body objects.

Going to the range tomorrow. Finally got time. Going to try some loads in the 45-70. This time with a scope. Maybe the groups will look better.

[Ausglock]

AP-70 is Hodgdon Universal.
All made in OZ and exported to the USA.
Jesus... you blokes are old farts...
I'm only 57.....:kidding:

[slide]

Just wait!

[Avenger442]

There may be snow on the roof but there is still a fire in the boiler. :hijack:

[slide]

I hear you brother!!!!!

[Warhead]

Got Ya'll beat at 23 hahaha!
I put the old 375 on the back burner for now and have been playing with the 45-70 more lately but still loving that K15 black on all my pistol bullets!

[Ausglock]

Bloody young Whipper Snappers.....:D

[Gremlin460]

Bloody young Whipper Snappers.....:D

62 on 25th this month, looking forward to the box of Susan Island Green , nice present for my b/day.

[Ausglock]

Hahahahaha... Show me the money...

[slide]

Happy Birthday a little early Grem !!!! Warhead, you just wait too![smilie=s:

[Avenger442]

Yeah Happy Birthday and many more.

It's funny we're talking about getting old. Remember the range trip I mentioned for this week. Well it was a bust. Was going to visit Mom in the hospital and the range is in the same county. I remembered the 45-70, the targets, the target stand, the rest, the ear and eye protection....... Guess what I forgot. I reached in the bag no ammo. Had left it sitting on the loading bench. :killingpc Well.............................................. .................................................. ..........................................
Probably distracted dealing with Mom's health problems. She's 89 and been having a lot of problems after her last car wreck.

Coating some 400 grain bullets for the 45-70 today.

190982 190983 This is the first coat before the bake. Stood them on end playing like I'm powder coating while the oven heats up.:grin::grin::grin:

That's 5 1/2 pounds of lead each tray. A lot to bake with two trays in the oven. Bet it takes the whole 12 min at about 390 F to do the lot.

[slide]

Those look great !

[jeep45238]

So how much of an over-bore can this take without damage to the coating? My molds are .358-.359 droppers due to my last 9mm having a large bore, and unexpectedly I've moved to platforms that both slug a smudge over .355.

Would shooting as-cast diameter with 2-3 coats be enough to damage the coating as it goes down the bore (3 thou over) and result in leading? Or is the consensus to size down to .357 and do a final coat?

[Ausglock]

My molds drop at .361
Coat twice at this and size down to .356 with no issues.
Just make sure you use the HITEK Aqua 500 sizing lube.

Or coat once. Size and do the second coat after sizing.

[HI-TEK]

My molds drop at .361
Coat twice at this and size down to .356 with no issues.
Just make sure you use the HITEK Aqua 500 sizing lube.

Or coat once. Size and do the second coat after sizing.

You can use the 500+ as sizing lube, but it is not Water based and more expensive..
The sizing lube is the Aqualube 5000 product.

[Ausglock]

I knew it was one or the other.
Hows about renaming them to something with different numbers?
500 and 5000 is just too similar.

[Avenger442]

I was wondering about those numbers Joe. Did it take 500 tries to come up with the 500+ and 5000 tries to come up with the 5000?:kidding:

I think it took Edison 10,000 tries to get the light bulb right. So you must be doing something right.

[Gremlin460]

So how much of an over-bore can this take without damage to the coating? My molds are .358-.359 droppers due to my last 9mm having a large bore, and unexpectedly I've moved to platforms that both slug a smudge over .355.

Would shooting as-cast diameter with 2-3 coats be enough to damage the coating as it goes down the bore (3 thou over) and result in leading? Or is the consensus to size down to .357 and do a final coat?

My 92 slugs @ 356.4
Wifes 1911 slugs @ 355.1
moul drops @359 to 360 depending on BHN
I coat once and size to 358, then recoat and throw the casts into containers for storage. I cast RN FN and conical.
Now on the day of reloading I resize either to 359 just to polish the second coat for the Beretta, or I resize to 356 if I am loading for the 1911.

Using this method I have had Zero leading in either gun over 3 years of shooting. Neither the older Wet system HiTec or the newer powder form HiTec have given me problems.
Some of the casts have been stored for 3+ years and still function perfectly.
I have a habit of "burst" casting. I cast 3-4 weeks in winter and make enough for the entire year. I start with my fancy $10 iron pot, the $1 SS ladle, 3 piles of materials one WW ingots one 20% antimony ingot and a pile of pure tin ingots. Mixing to 94-4-2, and rotating 2 molds at a time , it dos'nt take long to end up with a few buckets full of casts.

To be totally honest , I cannot remember the last time I did a smash/wipe test.

Mike

[ioon44]

"I cannot remember the last time I did a smash/wipe test."

I can't remember the last time I did a smash test either but it may have been only a couple days ago getting old really sucks.

I am about to have my 20th annual 47th birthday.

[Avenger442]

I've about decided to stop having birthdays. Seems like a complete "waste of time" to me. If it wasn't for people believing I should get cake and gifts the decision would have already been made.

I did my last wipe and smash test 3/17/17 at 3:30 PM. Yeah, I'm 66 and still remember what I did five days ago.

ioon44:
I was in Missouri last year. Do you guys have elk there? I could have sworn that there were some in a field as I was going to Branson.

[slide]

I got a buddy who wants me to coat some bullets for him. He brought me 500 swc bullets out of a Lee mold, these are not the tumble lube design. Evidently, he cast them too hot. They are frosted pretty good. Is this going to affect the way the coating comes out? He really likes the gold color. Any suggestions?

[Gremlin460]

I missed a step in my post above.

After casting I tumble the casts 250 at a time in a closed square box @ 50rpm for around 2-3 minutes. This knocks any flashing off the casts and tidies up the casts a lot.

Slide - Coating frosted casts works just fine.

[Ausglock]

What Grem said. frosted works 100% fine.

You are now a commercial coater. Congrats...:D

[slide]

Do I get a diploma or something?

[HI-TEK]

Do I get a diploma or something?


You are now granted with being, lord of Hi-Tek, and Consular of Hi-Tek religion...lol...lol
I cant give you an appropriate certificate.... sorry....

[Gremlin460]

Do I get a diploma or something?

No but now you get to have the fanciest fingernail polish in the street!!!

[HI-TEK]

No but now you get to have the fanciest fingernail polish in the street!!!

Wait until he sees the glow in the dark coatings, (well I hope that I can perfect them. I am trying......)

[slide]

Gentlemen, I am honored.:awesome:

[ioon44]

I've about decided to stop having birthdays. Seems like a complete "waste of time" to me. If it wasn't for people believing I should get cake and gifts the decision would have already been made.

I did my last wipe and smash test 3/17/17 at 3:30 PM. Yeah, I'm 66 and still remember what I did five days ago.

ioon44:
I was in Missouri last year. Do you guys have elk there? I could have sworn that there were some in a field as I was going to Branson.

Yes, the conservation department is bringing in elk and some private land owners also. If you get back in Missouri let me know and I will buy a cup of coffee.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Shot the blackout with 2/3/95 alloy water dropped after coating (has anyone tested to see how much hardness this adds?????)
tiny bit of leading at the muzzle after 30 rounds.
Chased it with some very hard 180s lubed and checked that a buddy made and the barrel was pretty much totally shiny after that.
Guess hard alloy is the way to go. Next batch will be harder for sure.

[Avenger442]

Yes, the conservation department is bringing in elk and some private land owners also. If you get back in Missouri let me know and I will buy a cup of coffee.

Will do. We were there to tour Branson and look at College of the Ozarks for our granddaughters. May go back over that way some day. Your down near Springfield right?

[Avenger442]

Shot the blackout with 2/3/95 alloy water dropped after coating (has anyone tested to see how much hardness this adds?????)
tiny bit of leading at the muzzle after 30 rounds.
Chased it with some very hard 180s lubed and checked that a buddy made and the barrel was pretty much totally shiny after that.
Guess hard alloy is the way to go. Next batch will be harder for sure.

How hard was the alloy out of the blackout and how hard were you pushing them? Gas checks? I found out with Hi Tek in my 308 that you can't do anything that violates the physics of loading. Put some 11 or 12 BHN (forgot which) through it with no gas check near max load of H4895 and got lead in about the last inch of the barrel. What I'm saying is Hi Tek will not let you put pressure on softer bullets that they will not normally take. Probably could have shot the bullets with reduced loads. Never tried.

[Michael J. Spangler]

How hard was the alloy out of the blackout and how hard were you pushing them? Gas checks? I found out with Hi Tek in my 308 that you can't do anything that violates the physics of loading. Put some 11 or 12 BHN (forgot which) through it with no gas check near max load of H4895 and got lead in about the last inch of the barrel. What I'm saying is Hi Tek will not let you put pressure on softer bullets that they will not normally take. Probably could have shot the bullets with reduced loads. Never tried.

I think you're right when taking caster twists. I originally though of it compared to 357 in a lever gun. 170ish grain bullet at 36,000 psi moving a good 1700 fps worked fine for that alloy.
Same should be true for blackout right? Well I want thinking that a twist twice as fast would come into play.
Hard alloy for fast twist for sure.
Mill be running harder stuff from now on. If hi-tek works I'll stick with it. If check and lube works then I'll do that.

[Avenger442]

Michael
I haven't found a case where I did what I would do with another lube that didn't work with Hi Tek. There are some on this thread that are using powder coating for some of the bullets they shoot just because they find it works better for them with that bullet and that gun. The guys using the 1 in 8 through 1 in 9 twist 223 AR guns are running some hard bullets. I have shot some, as memory serves, 21 BHN 223 out of my bolt gun 1 in 10 twist with good results. I don't shoot my AR that much so I have not tried the Hi Tek in it. Quite frankly I don't like casting those small bullets. And I'm not exactly sure why? Anyway I seem to be headed into the large diameter bullet zone with twist in the slower RPM.

If you guys want to go deep sometime read some of the stuff on RPM and pressure on this forum, if you haven't already. Larry , forgot his last name I think it's Gibson, has done a lot of typing concerning the RPM theory and it's effect on lead. There are others that have done as much on the pressure aspect. And there seems to be a disagreement as to which is the most important to the survival of the lead. This place is a store house of so much information that it is hard to digest and use it all.

I never realized about four years ago when I started reloading that it was such an interesting and complicated thing to cast a bullet and then get it to perform the way you wanted it to. Or achieve a high degree of performance. Reminds me of the first time I went golfing with some friends from work. That's a lot tougher than it looks , too. I just wanted to set myself up so I didn't have to buy ammo to hunt and shoot paper with. Now I'm chasing consistent under one inch groups at 100 yards with all of my guns. Why? Again, I'm not exactly sure. Two inch groups would be sufficient for any hunting I would do. Maybe it's like a golfer who is trying for that hole in one or it's like mountain climbing; to see if I can.

End of pontification.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Michael
I haven't found a case where I did what I would do with another lube that didn't work with Hi Tek. There are some on this thread that are using powder coating for some of the bullets they shoot just because they find it works better for them with that bullet and that gun. The guys using the 1 in 8 through 1 in 9 twist 223 AR guns are running some hard bullets. I have shot some, as memory serves, 21 BHN 223 out of my bolt gun 1 in 10 twist with good results. I don't shoot my AR that much so I have not tried the Hi Tek in it. Quite frankly I don't like casting those small bullets. And I'm not exactly sure why? Anyway I seem to be headed into the large diameter bullet zone with twist in the slower RPM.

If you guys want to go deep sometime read some of the stuff on RPM and pressure on this forum, if you haven't already. Larry , forgot his last name I think it's Gibson, has done a lot of typing concerning the RPM theory and it's effect on lead. There are others that have done as much on the pressure aspect. And there seems to be a disagreement as to which is the most important to the survival of the lead. This place is a store house of so much information that it is hard to digest and use it all.

I never realized about four years ago when I started reloading that it was such an interesting and complicated thing to cast a bullet and then get it to perform the way you wanted it to. Or achieve a high degree of performance. Reminds me of the first time I went golfing with some friends from work. That's a lot tougher than it looks , too. I just wanted to set myself up so I didn't have to buy ammo to hunt and shoot paper with. Now I'm chasing consistent under one inch groups at 100 yards with all of my guns. Why? Again, I'm not exactly sure. Two inch groups would be sufficient for any hunting I would do. Maybe it's like a golfer who is trying for that hole in one or it's like mountain climbing; to see if I can.

End of pontification.

It wouldn't be any fun if it all worked out right the first time.
I'm going to say from my experience that there is a balance between RPM and Hardness for sure. They go hand in hand.... I was loading subsonic and getting leading with the blackout with 1/1.5/97.5 alloy water dropped. I can run that all with a good 50% more pressure in the 357 lever gun thousands of rounds with no issues.
Step the twist to 1:8 and pressure down 30% and it leads. Its all a big balancing act i guess.
Fun to learn for sure! Now i'll have to go back and read up on RPMs

[slide]

Spangler you hit the nail on the head. I have had more fun learning how to use the hi-tek. I am 65 now and don't take things too serious like I did when I was younger. I still wonder sometimes if I really know how to use it but I am getting better. I am in Oklahoma and was up at 6:00 AM and started casting so I could try some new ideas. Sometimes they work and sometime they don't. No biggy! Back in the pot they go nothing wasted but a little coating. Doesn't bother me a bit. It is now 10:30 PM and just got through with the coating session.( I don't try to break any speed records). It was a good day! Now I am going to bed. Goodnight

[Michael J. Spangler]

Spangler you hit the nail on the head. I have had more fun learning how to use the hi-tek. I am 65 now and don't take things too serious like I did when I was younger. I still wonder sometimes if I really know how to use it but I am getting better. I am in Oklahoma and was up at 6:00 AM and started casting so I could try some new ideas. Sometimes they work and sometime they don't. No biggy! Back in the pot they go nothing wasted but a little coating. Doesn't bother me a bit. It is now 10:30 PM and just got through with the coating session.( I don't try to break any speed records). It was a good day! Now I am going to bed. Goodnight


Sounds like a hell of a day to me!

[ioon44]

Will do. We were there to tour Branson and look at College of the Ozarks for our granddaughters. May go back over that way some day. Your down near Springfield right?

Yes, just north of Springfield.

[ioon44]

You can use the 500+ as sizing lube, but it is not Water based and more expensive..
The sizing lube is the Aqualube 5000 product.


My pump bottle of Aqualube 5000 will not spraying any more, I have only used about 1/4th of it and have kept the clear cap on the bottle.


Anyone know how can I get it to spray again?

[Ausglock]

My pump bottle of Aqualube 5000 will not spraying any more, I have only used about 1/4th of it and have kept the clear cap on the bottle.


Anyone know how can I get it to spray again?

Take the pump part and flush it with water. The small filter on the bottom of the pickup tube gets blocked as does the nozzle.
I hold the pump head under water in a bucket and pump it til it works again.

[Utah Shooter]

Ok so these things look great. My problem is that after 4 coats they still fail the rub test. 400 degrees dried for a day in between. hmmmm?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170325/7dab01abd79a0f1d4b51f86009863fd4.jpg

[BlaineD]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170325/fba9ac90cebb1a0a7119714a54cfa78c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170325/92d65a0c815ee7254e003d5c6089adf0.jpg

First crack at it tonight. Black cherry.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Ausglock]

Ok so these things look great. My problem is that after 4 coats they still fail the rub test. 400 degrees dried for a day in between. hmmmm?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170325/7dab01abd79a0f1d4b51f86009863fd4.jpg

Shoot them.See how they go.

[Gremlin460]

Susan Island do any 45/70 @ 300gn?

[Ausglock]

Yep.......how many you want?

[HI-TEK]

Ok so these things look great. My problem is that after 4 coats they still fail the rub test. 400 degrees dried for a day in between. hmmmm?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170325/7dab01abd79a0f1d4b51f86009863fd4.jpg


Well Hello Joe,
Just wondering, why you would coat 4 times?
If you are getting any colour bleed with test, generally it is due to under baking and will happen with every coat.
Coating several times, does not fix the colour bleed.
Which colour are you using? It looks like Bronze 502 or Bronze 530.
Joe

[Utah Shooter]

Well maybe I'm misunderstanding the directions but it said if they fail the rub test start over again. So I just coated them again. That is red copper.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[popper]

2/3/95 alloy water dropped They won't be quite as hard as WD from the mould. I tried a hard aloy 145gr pushed hard and got leading, haven't been back on that H.T. yet, PC works well for now.
CoO is a nice but very liberal school (at least the headmaster was when I talked to her a few years back). They do have a pretty good Ag/tech school program.

[wlkjr]

Well maybe I'm misunderstanding the directions but it said if they fail the rub test start over again. So I just coated them again. That is red copper.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
If it rubs off down to bare lead then that's a problem. Sometimes I get a little color on my rag but they shoot fine otherwise.

[slide]

If the coating has been baked it has to be melted down again. Like some said shoot some of them before making final decision.

[Michael J. Spangler]

2/3/95 alloy water dropped They won't be quite as hard as WD from the mould. I tried a hard aloy 145gr pushed hard and got leading, haven't been back on that H.T. yet, PC works well for now.
CoO is a nice but very liberal school (at least the headmaster was when I talked to her a few years back). They do have a pretty good Ag/tech school program.

thanks man!