simple Hi-Tek coating

[DerekP Houston]

Wow I still have a ways to go, those are gorgeous.

[Gremlin460]

Errr Houston has a problem.......

sorry just could not help myself!!

:bigsmyl2:

[DerekP Houston]

Errr Houston has a problem.......

sorry just could not help myself!!

:bigsmyl2:

Lol good one :D, I do have a problem with being lazy and forgetting the timer ;). Smaller batches and watching it closer seemed to help.

[Avenger442]

Lol good one :D, I do have a problem with being lazy and forgetting the timer ;). Smaller batches and watching it closer seemed to help.

Have the same problem with paying attention to the timer. I'm usually trying to do several things at the same time to save time. My wife says I'm not a very good multitasker. Needless to say, have to concentrate on one thing when I'm loading.

Going back to .308 loads this week that I tested last week and tweak the loads to see if I can get better groups next time. Also coating some 308 and 45 with the Dark Blue and Gold 1035 50/50 mix to see how they turn out.

Ended up fixing the Ruger 44 mag pistol myself. It turns out that all it needed was to be completely disassembled and have a good cleaning with some Frog Lube. Gun is working great now so will be testing the new 44 mag loads and some loaded with more black powder next time I can get to the range.

[popper]

Still interested in how well your 308W loads are working. Group & fps?

[Avenger442]

Still interested in how well your 308W loads are working. Group & fps?

Sorry Popper. Was going to reply the last time you asked and I got distracted (that multi task thing again). Still do not have a crono so can't accurately measure. Calculated from load data and depending on which load and bullet between 2200 and 2700 fps as I remember. May start one of those mass donations sites so I can buy a LabRadar Ballistic Velocity Doppler Radar Chronograph. Never have liked the idea of shooting through something to get velocity.

173100 With the bullet on the right 160 grain and gas checked during colder weather I got just under 1 1/2 inch groups 100 yards with a load of H4895, forgot amount of powder. With the bullet on the left about same weight I haven't found the powder and the load that would get me under 3 inch groups at 100 yards. Which confuses me because it is more aerodynamic (better BC). Have started using 10 shot groups sometimes which I thought might give me an idea what was happening. No help, but still working on it. Even with changing powders and loads and in two different guns the bullet on the right shoots better groups. Problem is I've cast a bunch of the bullets on the left and need to find the performance.

[Rompin Ruger]

attachment doesn't seem to work for me... but, while lots more expertise here then others, twist rate for the size bullet and velocity can really screw the pooch! Sometimes slower velocity works better...

I don't get the twist rate thing for varied weight bullets... know I read a lot of stuff about the .22 centerfire stuff needing to be twist dependent to bullet weight, but in .308, didn't think so much.

Maybe those cast slugs need to be like the BPowder CTG guys...where lousy accuracy at 100 but they "go to sleep" and iron out their yaw and do great at 200 yards?:eek:

[Avenger442]

Reposted attachment

Not sure why same bullet weight with same loads with a better ballistic coefficient doesn't group better. But like I said still working with it. Your suggestion was where I was headed next. A smaller load of powder. Got a 200 yard at the range will try some on it later. Need to iron out 100 yard first. Because of where I hunt, most of my shots are 100 yards or less.

[Rompin Ruger]

Avenger, sent PM... I think that "going to sleep" stuff is the purview of the Black Powder big bores

[charles.k.terry]

This may be a silly question, but is there a step by step pdf for PC and HT? I am brand new into casting, only going to do 357 mag boolits to begin with. The pan lube seems very messy to me, but I want to read to compare.

Thank you
Keith

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Keith,
PM Sent

[HI-TEK]

I sent you an email

[Ausglock]

If HITEK Joe paid his Secretary more, then the poor girl could type out a "How to sheet"

[HI-TEK]

If HITEK Joe paid his Secretary more, then the poor girl could type out a "How to sheet"



????????? what the ....??????

[Rompin Ruger]

Trevor your secretary, Joe? Hard to get good help the world over eh? :bigsmyl2: There were some guides published here but they get lost in the morass of material shared... Didn't Trev do a separate thread on "HOW"?

[DerekP Houston]

There's only 375+ pages in the thread...I'm sure the instructions are in there somewhere. Happy to say zombie green is back to green. 7 minutes and not loading the trays quite as heavy was the trick for me. Thanks for all the help yall!

[HI-TEK]

Trevor your secretary, Joe? Hard to get good help the world over eh? :bigsmyl2: There were some guides published here but they get lost in the morass of material shared... Didn't Trev do a separate thread on "HOW"?


Trevor ????, secretary ?????.....lol lol lol, he would cost me plenty, I cant afford him.... I would end up working for him.....

[Rompin Ruger]

Joe, I could only guess it'd be a "hoot" and laugh a minute! I know there was a simple guide, but I can't find it in the listing...

[HI-TEK]

There's only 375+ pages in the thread...I'm sure the instructions are in there somewhere. Happy to say zombie green is back to green. 7 minutes and not loading the trays quite as heavy was the trick for me. Thanks for all the help yall!


Only 375 plus pages ????, who would have thought that it would get so many posts.
I wish that I could put up a simple straight forward do and don't do manual.
But, who would read such a thing????lol.

[DerekP Houston]

Only 375 plus pages ????, who would have thought that it would get so many posts.
I wish that I could put up a simple straight forward do and don't do manual.
But, who would read such a thing????lol.

It's more fun chatting with you guys down in OZ ;). Besides I managed to mess it up a number of times even *after* reading your instructions.

[HI-TEK]

It's more fun chatting with you guys down in OZ ;). Besides I managed to mess it up a number of times even *after* reading your instructions.


Derek, it was the fact, that we do things upside down here.....lol...lol, and that is why it is difficult to convert things. Ausglock/Trevor certainly is a colourful character, but he knows his stuff, and calls a spade a spade, no fooling around.

[Rompin Ruger]

Derek, it was the fact, that we do things upside down here.....lol...lol, and that is why it is difficult to convert things. Ausglock/Trevor certainly is a colourful character, but he knows his stuff, and calls a spade a spade, no fooling around.

Indeed, Joe and both Trevor and Donnie this side of the big puddle had done up simple guidelines that helped me greatly...devil is in the details and some tiny nuances sure can make a difference with this something techie stuff...

In my old field, we called you type guys "SME's" or subject matter experts. Trouble is, that you learn by trial and error over time and then doing it so often, you internalize steps you may not even realize a newbie needs to know...so then the trial and error stuff starts anew.

Great stuff... but there be a few "subtleties" that a body needs heed!

[popper]

LabRadar - yea, when I win the lottery. I can get to 2700 with PC in 308W but haven't had luck at all with the HiTek above ~ 1400 fps. I may try it in the 30/30, that mould is GCd.

[Avenger442]

LabRadar - yea, when I win the lottery. I can get to 2700 with PC in 308W but haven't had luck at all with the HiTek above ~ 1400 fps. I may try it in the 30/30, that mould is GCd.

I don't even play so the lottery is out. Maybe when Obama gets out of office I can regain enough in insurance and tax savings to buy it and several other things. Last time I figured it up he is costing me around $1200 a year.

What molds have you used and what gun or guns are you shooting the 308 out of? Lead BHN? Not for a critique but just out of interest.

[popper]

4% Sb, 0.5% Cu in a 31-165C for a LR-308 24" 1:10. 16" upper does 2400. 1 1/2 MOA on a good day.

[Avenger442]

4% Sb, 0.5% Cu in a 31-165C for a LR-308 24" 1:10. 16" upper does 2400. 1 1/2 MOA on a good day.

i have a DPMS in 308. It hasn't been shot enough to be broke in. I think my barrel is shorter. Bought the gun with some money that I had saved up back before I retired. Have you had any problems with the gas system shooting lead? If not I may try some HiTek in mine.

[Ausglock]

Here is the post fron 2014 on how to HITEK coat.
This was for the liquid coating, but it also works for the powdered coating.
Just ignore from point 1 to 5.

1. add 2 bullets to your colour resin and shake for a good 5 minutes.
2. shake the catalyst.
3. empty bottle ready. Add 5 parts colour immediately...IMMEDIATELY... after shaking.
4. Add 7 parts Acetone and then the 1 part catalyst.
5. Put lid on the mixture and shake the schit out of it for 5 minutes. I use 600ml coke bottles with pop-tops on them. easy to add coating to the bullets.
6. Add about 200 bullets (2KG) to the plastic bucket. lid is NOT needed.
7. Shake the mixed coating and Immediately add a dribble (6mls)to the bucket of bullets. Replace mixture lid Immediately.
8. Shake the bucket of bullets and coating. Remember... you have to have the bullets and coating mixing around just like a cement mixer does. The bottom of the bucket should be wet with coating.
9. Keep shaking, swirling until the rattle of the bullets changes to a dull thumping. you will hear the change really easy.
10. dump the coated bullets onto your drying tray and shake the tray side to side until the bullets have leveled out on the tray. don't worry about them touching. it doesn't matter.
11. If you think there isn't enough colour on the bullet, then you have the coating just right. Leave them alone for at least 10 minutes. then warm them with a hair dryer.
12. turn on your oven and pre-heat to 200deg C.
13. place you bullets on the baking tray and spread them around to be even on the tray and place tray in the oven.
14. set the oven timer for 12 minutes. not 6 or 8. But a full 12 minutes. this is dependent on how good your oven is.
15. when the oven timer turns off, remove the tray of bullets and let them cool. do not touch them until cool.
16. when cool. take 1 bullet. lay it in it's side on a steel base and smash it with a hammer. the coating should not flake off.
17. Take another bullet and get some acetone on a white cloth and wipe the coated bullet for 30 seconds and see if the colour comes off. if it does. place back into oven and bake for another 5 minutes. ( I have found 12 minutes per bake is enough).
18. When the bullets are cool, place back in the bucket and repeat steps 6 to 17.
19. when 2nd coat has cooled and has tested OK, Size and shoot.
20. Smile to yourself that you are now up to the same level of technology as we Aussies.
This is really piss easy to do. the biggest mistake is not shaking immediately before coating or not baking long enough or at a too low temperature.

[DerekP Houston]

12 minutes is far too long for my oven...but good write up. Reread my issues with the green color..

[Rompin Ruger]

12 minutes is far too long for my oven...but good write up. Reread my issues with the green color..

I remember having some time of it with all the possible variables...bullet size, weight, # of bullets in oven, temp control, convection ability...I had to find my own time for the amount of bullets I use and I still left them in a bit longer... didn't give a flip for color...my Red Copper .452/ 270gr comes out almost same color as my brass cases, but ...they work!!!

[DerekP Houston]

It probably has more to do with the volume of bullets they are doing at a time vs my toaster oven as well. From HI-TEK's post, it only needs 2-3 minutes at temp, I think my smaller oven and batches heat up more quickly.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=DerekP Houston;3726701]It probably has more to do with the volume of bullets they are doing at a time vs my toaster oven as well. From HI-TEK's post, it only needs 2-3 minutes at temp,

DerekPHouston,
Just to confirm temperature matters, what I had tried to indicate is, that after projectiles get to a minimum of 180C, they must be held there at least 2-3 minutes thereafter.
How long it takes to get to 180C, greatly depends on oven, load and internal heat circulation, (fan forced air).
If ovens are set at say 200C, it certainly helps with getting heat into the alloy faster, but, without fan forced air circulation, it takes much longer to transfer heat from hot air into alloy to get it to the 180C.
All being well, the fastest way to get heat into alloy is with internal mini cyclone air circulation. Fan forced air, speeds up process to get heat from hot air into alloy being baked.
Fast air circulation, also reduces hot spots and uneven bake, and gets product cooked extra fast.
One area which I had not referred to is location of heating elements versus product being cooked.
If heating elements are close to alloys surfaces, you may also get radiant heat burning on one side from glowing element. Easiest way to avoid this is to ensure that radiant heat is not burn surfaces by having some sort of mesh between heating element , or placing trays as far away from element as possible.
Most easiest, is to take out tray at half way point, shake to move around load in the tray, then, return into oven to finish bake.

[DerekP Houston]

Understood, Thank you for clarifying.

[Ausglock]

12 minutes is far too long for my oven...but good write up. Reread my issues with the green color..

I know. It depends on your oven/alloy load. But it give a starting point to work from.
My benchtop ovens need 12 minutes with 2Kg of alloy.
My modified wall oven will take 7 1/2 minutes with 5Kg of alloy.
Everyone needs to get their own parameters set.

[HI-TEK]

My modified wall oven will take 7 1/2 minutes with 5Kg of alloy.
Everyone needs to get their own parameters set.


Ausglock,
Your oven is the Rolls Royce of ovens. 3-4 times over designed and over capacity.
It goes to show, that heat stored in internal air, is used at maximum efficiency to get that heat pushed into your oven loads.
It seems to back up what I was trying to pass onto others about heat circulation.

[Ausglock]

Local appliance repairer dropped of another wall oven today. It has a dodgy door spring. other than that it works perfectly.
Going to trial it and see how it goes.
If the temp isn't held accurately, I'll gut the electronics and re-wire it like the other one.

[Rompin Ruger]

RE-wire an oven, building tumblers, on and on and on... LOL..

NO WONDER us po' nummies get confuddled...we just ain't got that much tech experiencce like some of "ya'll" and start extrapolating mentally and get ourselves in a bind!!!

Trev, you be a Renaissance man fo sho! :)

[Ausglock]

This is the Timer I put together. It has countdown timer with reset button and a flashing beeper for when the set time is reached. Far more accurate then the timers on the ovens.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160727_170704.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160727_170704.jpg.html)

[Avenger442]

Trevor
Is the timer set up so it automatically turns off the oven?

Your right about the 12 minutes as a start point. It is the time I used when I started with the old yard sale convection oven. Not that particular about color and it did have hot spots that darkened the color even with the convection on. New oven much better and will handle two trays.


Joe
I have had the radiant heat burn when cooking two trays of bullets in the new oven. Thanks for the mesh idea. Maybe a piece of screen wire?

I got into this hobby to save money but I keep finding ways to spend it. I guess there is also the independence of knowing I can do something myself.

[zomby woof]

Also, don't rely on your ovens temp setting. My Breville was a good 15-20 degrees off the setting. I have a digital probe right over the the tray now and can keep a good eye on the temps.

[DerekP Houston]

Also, don't rely on your ovens temp setting. My Breville was a good 15-20 degrees off the setting. I have a digital probe right over the the tray now and can keep a good eye on the temps.

Definitely agree here. I drilled mine for a PID thermocouple and run it off of that. Much more reliable than the dial knobs, I don't even trust the timer on it now.

[Ausglock]

Trevor
Is the timer set up so it automatically turns off the oven?
.

It can. there is an output on the timer to do it. But I don't. The ovens stay on power and the trays get swapped out when the time is up. Saves time. This way, I can have 4 benchtop ovens working from the one timer. this allows baking 1000 bullets every 12 minutes. doesn't take long to get through 10,000.

Talking to a techie about making an oven with top to bottom mesh conveyors. bullets go in the top and travel down on a set of moving mesh conveyors to exit at the bottom. Temp at top is lower than the bottom. Bottom mesh would be at 200 deg C and have a 2 minute travel time to exit. Heating at the bottom with fans forcing the air up and re-circulate. timed damper to expel baking fumes.
Small footprint of probably about 3ft x 3ft by about 4ft high.
This is the next project. should allow continous baking and do 15 to 20 thousand per hour.

[HI-TEK]

RE-wire an oven, building tumblers, on and on and on... LOL..

NO WONDER us po' nummies get confuddled...we just ain't got that much tech experiencce like some of "ya'll" and start extrapolating mentally and get ourselves in a bind!!!

Trev, you be a Renaissance man fo sho! :)


Rompin Ruger,
Yea, our Ausglock is our high performance version of Mc Giver... or is is Macgivver???? Give him a few scraps, a piece of wire and he is off to make something useful.......
lol lol Funny thing is that Ausglock's, like Mc Givvers, all work just great.
[smilie=l:

[Gremlin460]

It can. there is an output on the timer to do it. But I don't. The ovens stay on power and the trays get swapped out when the time is up. Saves time. This way, I can have 4 benchtop ovens working from the one timer. this allows baking 1000 bullets every 12 minutes. doesn't take long to get through 10,000.

Talking to a techie about making an oven with top to bottom mesh conveyors. bullets go in the top and travel down on a set of moving mesh conveyors to exit at the bottom. Temp at top is lower than the bottom. Bottom mesh would be at 200 deg C and have a 2 minute travel time to exit. Heating at the bottom with fans forcing the air up and re-circulate. timed damper to expel baking fumes.
Small footprint of probably about 3ft x 3ft by about 4ft high.
This is the next project. should allow continous baking and do 15 to 20 thousand per hour.

All you need is a conveyor cooker Trev, already invented, and available. On your exising oven fit 2 conveyors and double stack , continuous coatings... in one side out the other ,10 min transit time, done.

[Ausglock]

Those things are power hungary and waste a huge amount of heat.
I'm looking at a economical unit that uses 1/2 the power of a pizza oven and 1/3 the cost.

[dikman]

You can do a batch of cookies in between......:bigsmyl2:.

[Avenger442]

I looked at some used conveyor pizza machines about a year ago. If I remember right it was hard to find an operational one less than $2000. Would rather spend the money on my guns.

[DerekP Houston]

You can do a batch of cookies in between......:bigsmyl2:.

I don't think I'd like the taste of hitek fumed cookies :D

[Echd]

They wouldn't lead on the way out!

[Rompin Ruger]

I looked at some used conveyor pizza machines about a year ago. If I remember right it was hard to find an operational one less than $2000. Would rather spend the money on my guns.

At least the liberals would let you KEEP your pizza oven!!! :0

[popper]

Trevor - FYI it took 2 min to get PC to flash (~365F) when set base down (185gr 30 cal.) on a ~400F ceramic tile used as a heat reservoir. Conduction is just so more efficient than convection. Maybe your boolit feeder onto a heated rotating disk?

[Rompin Ruger]

Trevor - FYI it took 2 min to get PC to flash (~365F) when set base down (185gr 30 cal.) on a ~400F ceramic tile used as a heat reservoir. Conduction is just so more efficient than convection. Maybe your boolit feeder onto a heated rotating disk?

Say what? Good heavens, man...! Some of us, (at least ME) ain't got zip clue what the f you're speaking there... I once visited in NYC a neighborhood of all Spanish types... and they brought super heated marble slabs to the table with raw meat with varied butters and add ons... you cooked your own meat in butter and herbs... to YOUR liking... place was a haze of blue smoke when I left...that Radiant heat?

[Ausglock]

Problem would be the direct heat at the contact point. thus causing overheating of the coating at that point. Convection works fine. just needs good control.

[Ausglock]

Everyone... Don't forget to donate to the Cast Boolits Server fund. They need $6000 US dollars to keep this site up and running smooth.
Paypal is the easiest for we international members.
I just did my donation. How about you???
We all get the benefits and interaction of learning from each other.

[popper]

Ruger - Whitsett ferry landing had a place like that - conduction cooking. Trevor - overcooking bases doesn't cause a problem. Kickers needed to move them toward the center, to drop to a collector. Eyeing my wife's old teflon coated griddle that sticks pancakes.

[Rompin Ruger]

Ruger - Whitsett ferry landing had a place like that - conduction cooking.

Friend from around the area took me there long, long ago... actually, memory serves (?) I think it was a Portuguese community...they took back a drug infested area one building at a time, and revitalized the who neighborhood

As for the rest, my Costco oven worked ok with a temp gauge inside & I'm way not into production stuff like some of you gents! :0

[Ausglock]

Trevor - overcooking bases doesn't cause a problem. Kickers needed to move them toward the center, to drop to a collector. Eyeing my wife's old teflon coated griddle that sticks pancakes.

The problem is standing each one on it's butt. No use for commercial production. Far too slow and labour intensive.

[DerekP Houston]

The problem is standing each one on it's butt. No use for commercial production. Far too slow and labour intensive.

indeed, that's why I use hi-tek mainly instead of powdercoating.

[dsa]

I'm looking at a economical unit that uses 1/2 the power of a pizza oven and 1/3 the cost.

What kind of unit would that be?

[Ausglock]

Custom made. Still working on the design.

[Avenger442]

Here is some color for all of you Oregon and Baylor University fans.

173919

[atygrit]

174305

I have FINALLY been able to get this to work. I followed Ausglock's recipe, 2 kilos with 6 ml of black gold. They are not silky smooth, so I probably shook them a little too long, but not bad. They passed the wipe and smash test, so even if they aren't silky smooth, they will shoot fine, correct?

[Rompin Ruger]

Shoot em and you'll know...:) Purdy is nice, functional is better... Ask a man with a model for a wife!:kidding::violin::veryconfu

[Avenger442]

Shoot em and you'll know...:) Purdy is nice, functional is better... Ask a man with a model for a wife!:kidding::violin::veryconfu


I guess some people have it all but I've never met one. When she looked like a model she was too immature. As she matured......... I fell in love with a Tennessee girl.

Practice with this system helps you get better looking and functional bullets. But I've been doing it for about two years and still get some rough ones occasionally. It hasn't affected functionality, in and of itself. Other factors can.

[Rompin Ruger]

Practice with this system helps you get better looking and functional bullets. But I've been doing it for about two years and still get some rough ones occasionally. It hasn't affected functionality, in and of itself. Other factors can.

I would guess that "tumble till it sounds different" would work best with younger ears... I have to eyeball mine as I recall (not having done it since moved here)... Old ears can't hear those subtleties as well.

As for TN gals, well, it's a long, narrow state and so far in this area over the past two years, most are pretty beefy gals I've seen... [smilie=b:

[wlkjr]

I would guess that "tumble till it sounds different" would work best with younger ears... I have to eyeball mine as I recall (not having done it since moved here)... Old ears can't hear those subtleties as well.

As for TN gals, well, it's a long, narrow state and so far in this area over the past two years, most are pretty beefy gals I've seen... [smilie=b:
I got no problem with that.

[Avenger442]

I would guess that "tumble till it sounds different" would work best with younger ears... I have to eyeball mine as I recall (not having done it since moved here)... Old ears can't hear those subtleties as well.

As for TN gals, well, it's a long, narrow state and so far in this area over the past two years, most are pretty beefy gals I've seen... [smilie=b:

Same here with the ears. 40 years around construction projects and other abuse has pretty much ruined my hearing. I'm told no hearing aid made will help the left ear. Years ago I spent $2500 on a hearing aid for the right and it's more or less useless, too. So I tumble for 30 seconds and pour out onto drying screen.

Here in the South there is just too much good food. But beefy seems to be a nation wide problem from my observance. Ever watch one of those sidewalk interviews in New York or California? Watch the people walking by in the background. After 20 they pretty much let the body's go. Same for men.

[zomby woof]

I can't hear the difference either. I'm swishing less and the surface seems smoother. 20 or so seconds and they're all coated.

[Rompin Ruger]

I can't hear the difference either. I'm swishing less and the surface seems smoother. 20 or so seconds and they're all coated.

Not to ignore the other prior 2 posts to this one quoted, but I was embarrassed I succumbed to temptation and went in the direction I did... but the portly issue from my research is now a "world pandemic" along with Adult Diabetes...go hand in hand...

Glad ole (young?) Zombie Woof can hear better then some of us old duffs... I could hear the change some but felt it in my plastic Cool Whip container more then hear it getting sticky.. visual too! So quit and dumped.

Learned quick to not worry about the grease grooves filling up,, thanks to Donie M's Tutelage....
They don't touch the bore so don't need much attention...looks pretty when solidly coated but can be a source of issues as you add coats if on too thick to start...

Regardless, it's a learning curve to embrace some pretty heady techie stuff that makes this Hitec work well... bit of trial and error ain't all that bad! Better then the 45-45-10 I tried and made a mess of several hundred commercial bullets that now lead badly and smoke to high heaven...they go in the pot when I get back to casting...help the flux I guess...

[Gremlin460]

For those with declining ears, watch the bottom of the tub as you swirl/shake, it will look wet when you start and visually start to be come drier, when that happens, dump out. The sound change happens JUST after the "wetness" disappears.
if you tip 2 seconds before ideal, it makes no difference, smooth coating, if you tip out 2 seconds after ideal, you casts will be slightly matte. Both will test and shoot fine, all things being equal.

I highly suggest you all coat 4-5K and send them to Trevor and myself , you know, just to proof test. Its a horrible job but both of us will take the hit for the team!! Nice aussies that we are and all.

[Ausglock]

Ha... Don't want them. I have enough of my own to do.

[HI-TEK]

Ha... Don't want them. I have enough of my own to do.

After your A Grade win in Queensland titles, you should be flat out, you may need all the Lead you can lay your hands on..

[Ausglock]

Yes. The Queensland State titles for IPSC was a great match.
I got Classic Division A grade 1st with a Kimber Stainless Target II 1911 in 38 Super with Susan Island Bullets 150gn RNFP.
Very happy with the win.

[HI-TEK]

Yes. The Queensland State titles for IPSC was a great match.
I got Classic Division A grade 1st with a Kimber Stainless Target II 1911 in 38 Super with Susan Island Bullets 150gn RNFP.
Very happy with the win.


I want to see your trophy. its is on facebook, but I am sure others will also want to have a look.

[Gremlin460]

I want to see your trophy. its is on facebook, but I am sure others will also want to have a look.

He is a IPSC Shooter!!??? Ahhh, that explains Sooooooo much..... Thanks Joe....

[Ausglock]

He is a IPSC Shooter!!??? Ahhh, that explains Sooooooo much..... Thanks Joe....

And???????
What are you trying to say, Grem??????
IPSC shooters are true saints.

[dikman]

And no doubt modest too......:bigsmyl2:.

[Rompin Ruger]

Maybe "undeniable tinkerers"? Takes a lot of practice to win such... and it seems Trev sure knows how to Rube Goldberg stuff to get something unique out of it!

[DerekP Houston]

Maybe "undeniable tinkerers"? Takes a lot of practice to win such... and it seems Trev sure knows how to Rube Goldberg stuff to get something unique out of it!

They take tinkering to a whole new level.

174548

[Rompin Ruger]

They take tinkering to a whole new level.

174548

NOw that right there is funny, I don't care who you are!!!

[Avenger442]

77 rounds of .308 down range today. Three different powders, nine different loads and two bullet shapes and weights. Coated with Gold 1035 three coats with no leading. Had some 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards. Best groups were with 41 grains H 4895 and a Lee C309-160R. Some success with 8208 and CFE 223 powders, too. About 2/3 of the groups were good enough to hunt with. Love this stuff.

[HI-TEK]

77 rounds of .308 down range today. Three different powders, nine different loads and two bullet shapes and weights. Coated with Gold 1035 three coats with no leading. Had some 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards. Best groups were with 41 grains H 4895 and a Lee C309-160R. Some success with 8208 and CFE 223 powders, too. About 2/3 of the groups were good enough to hunt with. Love this stuff.

Avenger,
You really gave it a good work out. Sounds like results were OK.
Glad you are happy with tests.
Thanks for posting.

[Rompin Ruger]

:goodpost::2_high5: Congrats!!!

[Ausglock]

Ok... here is a 45 230gn RN that fell off the baking tray and was sitting on the bottom of the oven for 3 hours of baking at 200 deg C.
With it is a bullet that got the normal 7 1/2 minute bake cycle.
Both were smashed and you can see the results.
Both were coated with Kryptonite green.
Over baking only changed the colour.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160821_164651.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160821_164651.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160821_164742.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160821_164742.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160821_164829_1.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160821_164829_1.jpg.html)

Both pass the wipe and smash tests with flying colours.

[Ausglock]

Also put this timer together. Far more accurate than the oven timers.
Red reset button and a flashing/ buzzing alarm to let you know when the time is up.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160727_170704.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160727_170704.jpg.html)

[Rompin Ruger]

Yeowza, Mr. McGiver! :bigsmyl2:

[wlkjr]

I like that Kryptonite green. Is that from the powder or liquid?

[Ausglock]

Liquid. But the powder version is the same colour.

[atygrit]

I successfully coated twice, then sized and coated for a third time. Are you guys sizing again, or just using them as is.

[cptkeybrd]

200 degrees C ? My phone is my timer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dikman]

Hey Trev, what model timer is that?

[Ausglock]

Hey Trev, what model timer is that?

Sestos B1S 240 volt

[wlkjr]

I successfully coated twice, then sized and coated for a third time. Are you guys sizing again, or just using them as is.
I usually only size once and do 3 coats also. I have sized after the second coat but it is a slower process so now I just size after the 3rd coat.

[Rompin Ruger]

I've coated 2 or 3 times with the 45 long colt and relatively hot loads--with red copper, I didn't see any difference. NO leading either way..good accuracy... sized after final coat regardless... Donnie recommended some smutz to make the sizing a touch easier that doesn't hurt coating... first it was some furniture polish now I think they have a HT product?

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

I like that Kryptonite green. Is that from the powder or liquid?

I have a bunch of Kryptonite Green powder due to arrive here in a week or so.

[bfuller14]

Donnie,
Please let us know when it is available.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Will do

[Graakall]

Hi.
Going to coat my first batch of 230 grs, 452 rn boolits.
Brick red..
5 milliliters mix pr 2 kg boolits.

Surfacearea/kg must vary between 45 230 grs and 115 9mm.

Any input on this?

Thanks fellows.

[fivewhy]

I searched for an answer but could not find one.

Is there any practical difference between the "Black 1035" and the "Gold 1035" other than color? Apparently, both have the gold particles and both are designed for higher pressures, but I was just wondering if either is better/worse than the other when used in rifle loads...that is, where max chamber pressure is in broad range of 35kpsi to 60kpsi. And this would assume the bullet is hard enough for the given pressure.

For note, I generally do not intend to push harder than 45kpsi but this is without gas checks. I have the Black 1035 in powder form.

[Ausglock]

Hi.
Going to coat my first batch of 230 grs, 452 rn boolits.
Brick red..
5 milliliters mix pr 2 kg boolits.



Surfacearea/kg must vary between 45 230 grs and 115 9mm.

Any input on this?

Thanks fellows.
Same. Works for me. surface area doesn't matter. Actual weight of alloy does.

[Ausglock]

I searched for an answer but could not find one.

Is there any practical difference between the "Black 1035" and the "Gold 1035" other than color? Apparently, both have the gold particles and both are designed for higher pressures, but I was just wondering if either is better/worse than the other when used in rifle loads...that is, where max chamber pressure is in broad range of 35kpsi to 60kpsi. And this would assume the bullet is hard enough for the given pressure.

For note, I generally do not intend to push harder than 45kpsi but this is without gas checks. I have the Black 1035 in powder form.
Black 1035 contains gold 1035.
Both work.
Suck it and see..

[GregP42]

Same. Works for me. surface area doesn't matter. Actual weight of alloy does.
So if I did 2kg of 850gr bullets it would be the same? I ask because I am going to try it on larger bullets...

Sent from my E500A using Tapatalk

[wlkjr]

It's really not rocket science or brain surgery. Squirt some on and shake. If you got it too thick, pour on a little acetone and wash off. It won't take long to get it right.

[dikman]

Exactly! The instructions are a good place to start, but once you've got some understanding of the process then you start experimenting. Within reason there is a bit of leeway using the stuff. I've only had one batch fail and that was when I was starting out. I put the tray on the top shelf position, directly under the element, and severely overcooked them and they flaked. Lesson learned, and since then I've had no failures.

[Ausglock]

So if I did 2kg of 850gr bullets it would be the same? I ask because I am going to try it on larger bullets...

Sent from my E500A using Tapatalk

Well...bullets that big.....try it and see.
That is like trying to coat 1lb ingots..
Coating "Normal" bullets has no problems with 6mls to 2 to 2.5kg of alloy.

[Avenger442]

I searched for an answer but could not find one.

Is there any practical difference between the "Black 1035" and the "Gold 1035" other than color? Apparently, both have the gold particles and both are designed for higher pressures, but I was just wondering if either is better/worse than the other when used in rifle loads...that is, where max chamber pressure is in broad range of 35kpsi to 60kpsi. And this would assume the bullet is hard enough for the given pressure.

For note, I generally do not intend to push harder than 45kpsi but this is without gas checks. I have the Black 1035 in powder form.

I stumbled onto the HiTek when I first started casting so I've not used another lube. Have always said I would try powder coating or one of the older type of wax/grease lubes one day. Was wondering what lube you are using now? What caliber rifle?

[Avenger442]

You guys talking about coating larger bullets got me to thinking. Is anyone shooting the Hi Tek in larger caliber rifles over 30 cal? If I can save the cash one day to buy one, would like to try it in a 375 H&H or maybe a 45-70. If I get rich and can find a three mile range maybe a Barrett 50 cal. That's a big bullet.

[dikman]

one of the older type of wax/grease lubes one day.

If you're a glutton for punishment then by all means try it - but I think you'll regret it :bigsmyl2:! Been there, done that, never again. Wax lubes are reserved purely for my black powder shooting now.

[Avenger442]

If you're a glutton for punishment then by all means try it - but I think you'll regret it :bigsmyl2:! Been there, done that, never again. Wax lubes are reserved purely for my black powder shooting now.

I'm actually using Hi Tek with some black powder cartridge loads. 44 magnum shells with Hi Tek coated bullet a little coconut oil/ bees wax mix on the end to keep fouling soft. Working good but not great. Have not put enough of my home made BP in the shell yet. At 15 yards it goes to point of aim. But at 25 it drops some. Still need to work on load so I can get 31 grains volume instead of the 20 I've been using. Of course, no leading in the barrel at these pressures with soft lead hollow points.

[Thatguy38305]

Is there an advantage to hi tech coating over powder coating?

[Thatguy38305]

Also do you size the bullets before coating, after coating or both? I'm vary interested in trying it out

[Rompin Ruger]

TG, these gents will educate you... the thread is too intimidating to read thru start to finish. PC seems like more equipment and more work. HTec seems way easier.

You cannot or are NOT to size HITecbefore coating as the coating requires the natural "tooth" of the casting to bite and adhere to, or so I read it. I learned here to size AFTER done coating. I've only done heavy .452 for Colt 45's...(270 gr) with Red Copper, 2 coats, one batch 3 coats, then sized in simple Lee push thru sizer. Big deal made of a good convection type oven to get even air circulation. I found one a couple years back at Costco that has worked, albeit, once I moved to TN 18 mos ago, I had much to do on house I bought, garden, etc and haven't gotten back to casting or coating.

[Thatguy38305]

Makes sense. Thank you

[Rompin Ruger]

Hopefully, the guys with gobs of experience will chime in to refute, clarify or validate my drivel... but that on sizing is what I have written down and followed...

AS for the advantages of HTec over PC, that would need come from someone who's done both. I read on here a lot about PC and it seemed way too complicated to my aged brain. Then I started reading 2+ yrs ago on this thread and it was daunting, but I persevered and then started talking to Donnie M who then owned Bayou bullets and sold Hitec. Now he sold Bayou and just sells Hi Tec. He was a treasure trove of help as was Trevor and all who post here.

You'll get more input and better on comparison to pc then from my limited experience of just reading on this and other sites!

[dikman]

Sorry, Avenger, I forgot about using BP with cartridges. You're quite right, even with HT coating they really need to have lube of some sort or the barrel/forcing cone will gunk up pretty fast. Probably why I'm not shooting BP in my cowboy guns, come to think of it.

Thatguy, the big advantage with HT is with the application - it's much simpler to use. One "disadvantage" is that PC only needs one coat whereas HT needs a minimum of two, but it's no big deal given how quickly it can be done. Sizing is done after coating. Try it, I reckon you'll like it :smile:.

[Rompin Ruger]

ON another site, they talk about PC cooking at 400* for 15 min, which seems a bit long, but they also claim that "anneals" the lead so that it is softer under the PC and tends to expand wonderfully.

There were 1 or 2 posts where some guys shot HT bullets into some soft medium and dug them out flattened out big time but the coating was still intact... Lord knows where and I don't know anyway to search a thread, like this one, but I am thinking I might try to soften up my bullets... I'm using old Wheel Weights and the RCBS-270-SAA mold is kicking them out 453 and right around 273-274 gr....most articles I read said COWW gave 280 gr. slugs..

I tried smashing them on a concrete step and it didn't work out... I quit before the Landlord had me replace the step! :cry:[smilie=b:

[DerekP Houston]

Is there an advantage to hi tech coating over powder coating?

To me the advantage is being able to shake and dump them on a tray to bake, rather than picking em out and standing them up. Just shot another 200 rnds of 38 special today from mild to medium pressure with nothing except standard soot to clean up afterwards. I really need to practice my reloading skills to get up to speed with idpa...but revolvers are just so addicting and dropping brass makes my wallet hurt.

I size after coating. If there is a larger bump from diameter (last batch of 45s) the die will scrap the coating off for me at least. These I recoated with another single coat and shot just fine in my 45acp. Typically i just see it smooth out the roughness a bit and leave the coating intact.

[Avenger442]

Only amendment to what has been said on sizing is that you can size anytime after first coat. I put three coats on my rifle bullets. Size and install gas checks after second coat so I can get some HiTek on the check with the third coat.

Derek
If you are having trouble with coating coming off during sizing, and you haven't already tried it, polish the inside of the die with some metal polish and a Dremel tool. Try this off of ebay. Works on my Lee push troughs. The red rouge shown with the wool tip bits is a little too aggressive don't think you should use it. I think Ausglock uses a metal polish from Mothers that you can buy around here in the auto part stores.

175472 175473

If you have already done that use some of the sizing lube 500 Plus from HiTek. One of the dealers can help with that.

If that doesn't help I'm out of suggestions.

Dikman
No apology necessary. I'm still learning BP. Just another thing to spend money on. It is one of the things that has me looking at the 45-70. Won't happen anytime soon. $10,000 in HVAC repairs coming.

[dikman]

Rompin Ruger, I've also read about it "annealing" the lead, but those same people who discuss this also say that over time the alloyed lead will gradually harden again. The same with water quenching to make them harder, over time they will lose that additional hardness. Bear in mind that an alloy of lead/tin/antimony is blended to attain a particular hardness so trying to actually make it softer, without changing the chemical composition, could be a wee bit difficult.

I'm using pistol range scrap (hardness about 12-15 BHN) and firing it against steel targets causes a lot of lead splatter, some of which comes back at us! I've just made a softer batch by diluting the range scrap 50:50 with pure lead. I'm not sure of the hardness, but it has to be somewhere between 5 (pure lead) and the 12-15 range scrap. This stuff I can indent with a thumbnail, so it's definitely softer. I can actually find flattened out (and I mean flat!) pieces of boolit underneath the target - not complete, but obviously not shattering like the others. Not much HT left on them, but traces can be seen in what's left of the boolit. They still coat fine and no leading, so I'll start using this mix when my others have all gone.

[Rompin Ruger]

Dikman,

Thanks for that particular response. I don't want to steal TG's question, but that is good information. I have also read that COWW will vary greatly in hardness... I have some "pure?" lead to add when I get back into casting again. I have some bigger (heavier) bullets I bought and was gifted of the RFN design to test at longer range then the modified Keith style. I'm not sure it's an accuracy issue as where I can shoot here locally, the range is 50 or 100 and the 100 is oft in disrepair. So longer range testing off a bench is tough. Hard to find a good place to shoot in this area at anything but self defense range, ie, for hunting testing etc.

My only concern for softness is that cast are reputed to be the original Hollow point in that they will open on their own accord to larger diameter... a 452 flattening on tissue to larger is intriguing in a hunting situation!

Thanks for the head's up! :)

[Intel6]

You guys talking about coating larger bullets got me to thinking. Is anyone shooting the Hi Tek in larger caliber rifles over 30 cal? If I can save the cash one day to buy one, would like to try it in a 375 H&H or maybe a 45-70. If I get rich and can find a three mile range maybe a Barrett 50 cal. That's a big bullet.

I am using Bronze 500 to coat .458 bullets for shooing in my .458 SOCOM AR15 and in my 45-70 rifle. Works great as any other HT coated bullet, give it a try! In the pic below you see the Lee 500 gr in the .458 SOCOM and then the NOE 198 collar button and the NOE 350 in the 45-70. The picture turned out weird, think it was the lighting?

Neal in AZ

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Bronze_500.jpg

[Doublej]

Came over from powder coating and have to say I MUCH prefer Hitek!!! so much easier, nice even coat. I can coat 15lbs of bullets at a time (all that fits in my oven) and not worry about them sticking together and having to pull them apart. took me 30 minutes to coat 1500 bullets (30lbs) in 30 minutes with minimal effort!!!

[Ausglock]

I am using Bronze 500 to coat .458 bullets for shooing in my .458 SOCOM AR15 and in my 45-70 rifle. Works great as any other HT coated bullet, give it a try! In the pic below you see the Lee 500 gr in the .458 SOCOM and then the NOE 198 collar button and the NOE 350 in the 45-70. The picture turned out weird, think it was the lighting?

Neal in AZ

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Bronze_500.jpg

Nice. The Bronze 500 is a bloody good High Velocity coating.
BTW...Neal.
Are you the Neal in AZ on the Glocklist?

[Avenger442]

175920 175921 175923

If it wasn't for that one inch flyer these would have been good at 100 yards. Hi Tek Gold 1035 three coats on a Lee 309-160-2R, Remington brass, CCI primer and H4895.

Needless to say, no leading in 60 rounds of 308 with two different bullets and three different powders.

When I get the Lee C312-155 spitzer bullet (sized 309) working this good I think I'm going to go back to pistols again.

I have yet to find a bullet coated with Hi Tek that will lead the barrel of my guns if the lead is the correct BHN and gas checked when necessary. I went back and checked the BHN on both of the bullets used with the Lee tester and both come out right at 13 BHN.

Intel6
Saving for the 45-70.

[Rompin Ruger]

I'd better keep my head down, Avenger, with that quality of shooting a .308, you could pluck me off my back deck here in TN![smilie=p::bigsmyl2:

[Ausglock]

Nice.... How would those bullets go with hardball alloy at 15-17 BHN??

[ThaDoubleJ]

Ok, still struggling with this. Here's a picture.
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc519/ThaDoubleJ/458%20SOCOM/IMG_20160905_153725424_zpssg18ypxg.jpg
On the left is a super overcoated .458 boolit measuring .465. .007" of coating, but at least it's gold. On the right is a very thinly coated boolit measuring .4585 to .460 depending on where I measure them, and it's brown and still looks like ****. I did all my remaining boolits (about a hundred 340gr), and just stained them with the coating, with some extra acetone in there just in case. Cooked em, then repeated, with a bit more juice thrown in as they were splotchy the first time. Crappy Dappy Doo. So now I've followed the directions to a T, and now I just have a thinner, but equally crappy looking coating.

Anyone interested in trading me some Old Gold for any other non-metallic color? You can try Old Gold and report back if you got it to work, I'll try ??? and see if I can get it to work.

Big problem I've got here is that I can't go back to lubing these only. I tried some lubed as cast, and at 50 yds I couldn't hit paper. These coated ones shoot about 6MOA, same groups I get with Berry's plated, but at least they hit stuff.

[dikman]

Are you saying that they're shooting ok, regardless of how they look?

[ThaDoubleJ]

I haven't shot the thinly coated ones, only the super overcoated ones. They don't shoot like FTXs, but they hit paper plates. Also tried Aloxing and TACing them after coating, getting paranoid about leading recently, just made more smoke as far as I can tell, little faster as well.

[Avenger442]

Nice.... How would those bullets go with hardball alloy at 15-17 BHN??


Don't know Trevor. Only thing I shoot that hard a lead in is the .223 bolt gun. I did try some of this 13 BHN with no gas check and 1-2 grain of max loads. They were all over the berm and left a small amount of lead very end of barrel. I could probably go to 17 -20 and leave off the gas check. Maybe??

Ruger
I wouldn't shoot at a guy from TN. :D

[Rompin Ruger]

Ruger
I wouldn't shoot at a guy from TN. :D

Ain't FROM TN, just live here...that might make a difference, eh? ;-)

[Rompin Ruger]

JJ,

My Red Copper look like your triple coat Gold..they match my brass almost! :roll:

I figured out it was that I left them in just a wee bit longer, to be sure... and they migrated color toward a goldish... reading here over the years, it seems color is unimportant as long as adhesion is to spec. Of course, I'm going on memory now and that isn't my strength as I age...

[Avenger442]

Ain't FROM TN, just live here...that might make a difference, eh? ;-)

We accept Yankees as citizens here in the South. We don't the undocumented here in Alabama.

Joe;
Looking at ThaDoubleJ's bullets, why do you think they are that rough?

ThaDoubleJ;
Is the Old Gold powder? I only have the metallic colors but might swap you small amount of some of the Gun Metal (really dark grey) some Dark Blue (for me it's been dark green) or Bronze 500 for Old Gold if you want to try another color. All are powders. Where you located? PM me. But I don't think metallic is your problem.

To me, the bullet on the right looks like to hot or too long or both in the oven. It is what my Gold 1035 does when I bake them extra. Since you followed the instructions probably not too long. Look at photo of bullets in my previous post. The one on the far right has been baked longer and hotter than the one on the far left. How are you measuring the temp in your oven?

Rough texture is usually due to tumbling too long with too much mix in the bowl. But, again, if you followed instructions that doesn't make sense. Or not letting dry long enough before baking. If you live in an area of high humidity you might have to let them dry for 24 hours. Especially first coat. Extra acetone means longer to dry. Trevor says MEK can be used and drys quicker, I think. But I've never tried it.

Was that two coats? Did they pass wipe and smash test?

[HI-TEK]

Joe;
Looking at ThaDoubleJ's bullets, why do you think they are that rough?

Avenger, I will try and list possible causes and fixes.

1. Application of too much coating, and coating/tumbling for much too long will cause rough finishes.
Baking such coated alloy will not produce an even smooth film.
It is better to return freshly coated alloy into coating bucket/container, adding a little Acetone to re dissolve rough coating, but this time, dump coated alloy before it gets tacky and starts to form rough finish.
Once you bake a rough finished coated alloy, it cannot be fixed.
You can re-dissolve coating with solvent as many times you like, but after bake it is no longer possible to re-dissolve and recycle badly coated alloy.
Coating with new coating onto baked bad previous coats will not fix problems, is is a re-melt.
If too much coating has been used, and it is rough looking, (prior to baking) it is simple to fix. Simply add more projectiles, and add a little more Acetone, then tumble coat, and that extends coating to the total amount of alloy being coated, without using more coating mixture.
If rough finish coating passes smash test and solvent test, simply size a few, and coating should become smooth on bearing surfaces. Then it should work OK.
If coating after sizing is removed, then usually indicates not enough drying, coupled with using too much coating on first coat.

2. If coating is applied too thickly, or too much, and combined with not adequate drying, the coating will also blister and produce a rough Orange peel effect finish upon trying to bake it.

3. If there is a combination of 1 and 2, then such results may be obtained.

4. Colour change matters.
If coating is baked, and bonded well, final colour is really dependent on oven temperature, cooking time. Coating can be cooked until it is black, but a well bonded coating will work even if over cooked and black.
Colour consistency, is dependent on users ability to place same quantity load into oven each time, cook at same time each time, and bake at same settings on oven each time.

I hope I have covered all questions.

[ThaDoubleJ]

Here's more info. That darker bullet is light coat, bake, light coat, bake. Baked the first coat about 9 minutes at 385, second coat about 10 minutes at 390. I have a little oven thermometer in my convection oven to keep track of the temp. No bubbling was seen, boolits were dried after coating for about 4 days in dry Colorado. I suppose I could be over shaking them and they're getting sticky, I'll have to try a shorter shake time. Haven't wiped or smashed this batch, but prior batches have passed with no issues. I don't have a sizing die, just shoot them as-is and hope for the best. They drop at .458 exactly, so I'm ok with a couple thousandths of coating bring them up a bit, seem to shoot better than lubed anyway

[AndFereira]

So I'm having a bit of an issue. trying to use candy apple red and I keep failing the wipe test. Smash test passes almost every time. I always end up with a faint amount of color on the rag after the wipe test. I don't think it's related to not letting it dry enough before baking as I let it dry in 95 degree weather/33% humidity for 5 hours. Baked it for 12 minutes @ 385-390 degrees and it failed wipe test. Stuck them back on the oven for another 13 minutes and they still failed wipe test after. Smash test was a pass.

[Rich22]

So I'm having a bit of an issue. trying to use candy apple red and I keep failing the wipe test. Smash test passes almost every time. I always end up with a faint amount of color on the rag after the wipe test. I don't think it's related to not letting it dry enough before baking as I let it dry in 95 degree weather/33% humidity for 5 hours. Baked it for 12 minutes @ 385-390 degrees and it failed wipe test. Stuck them back on the oven for another 13 minutes and they still failed wipe test after. Smash test was a pass.

How sure are you that the temp is right? Oven thermo/Thermocouple? Preheated yes? How much alloy at once? Convection oven? With 4lbs alloy at once preheated oven with bullets preheated on top of oven my time to pass wipe is 11 minutes.

[AndFereira]

It's a oster large digital convection oven. Using 2 different thermometers. One showed 390 and the other showed 380. Oven was preheated for a solid 20 minutes before putting bullets in. I do not preheat the bullets just heat the oven up and stick them right in. Only doing batches of 1.5lbs right now till I figure it out- that's exactly 45 230 grain .45 acp bullets. no thermocouple

[Ausglock]

If it were me, I'd load them up and fire them. A tiny amount of wipe off will not hurt.

[Rompin Ruger]

Since you've got the high temps (95*) I'm betting you have ac running. I sat my coated slugs on top of the AC unit and that big fan blowing really made sure mine were super dry...course only works in the summer temps to use the outside AC unit fans! :)

[zomby woof]

So I'm having a bit of an issue. trying to use candy apple red and I keep failing the wipe test. Smash test passes almost every time. I always end up with a faint amount of color on the rag after the wipe test. I don't think it's related to not letting it dry enough before baking as I let it dry in 95 degree weather/33% humidity for 5 hours. Baked it for 12 minutes @ 385-390 degrees and it failed wipe test. Stuck them back on the oven for another 13 minutes and they still failed wipe test after. Smash test was a pass.

I would bump the temp a little. Your on the edge

[Avenger442]

Joe / Ausglock;
Is a real failed wipe test when the acetone wipes the coating completely off of the bullet after 30 seconds?

I've had small amounts wipe off like AndFereira. I tried upping the heat or time and just changed the color still had small amounts wipe off. I've noticed this in the Gun Metal and Dark Blue. The amount he is getting appears, from photo, to be a little more than I got. But it is hard to tell. I've also noticed that if I handle these colors a lot during loading, say weighing a lot of bullets or sorting, sometimes a small amount of the color will come off on fingers.

I didn't see this with the liquid colors. Could this be something associated with the powder colors? Say how long we are mixing or combining of the catalyzing agent with the color and acetone?

All shot fine without leading. So no real complaint with either accuracy or having to spend time cleaning lead out of barrel. Which are the main objective for me.

[Ausglock]

Joe will baffle you with techie type stuff. But I feel it is just the loading of colour in the coating is higher with the powder that excess colour does in fact wipe off slightly.
Like you, I have had zero issues firing these bullets.

[AndFereira]

how long is the powder good for once you mix it with acetone. I mixed the red two maybe three days ago and I'm using that. Should I mix up a new batch and throw this stuff out?

[wlkjr]

So I'm having a bit of an issue. trying to use candy apple red and I keep failing the wipe test. Smash test passes almost every time. I always end up with a faint amount of color on the rag after the wipe test. I don't think it's related to not letting it dry enough before baking as I let it dry in 95 degree weather/33% humidity for 5 hours. Baked it for 12 minutes @ 385-390 degrees and it failed wipe test. Stuck them back on the oven for another 13 minutes and they still failed wipe test after. Smash test was a pass.
Almost all mine do this no matter what color I use or how long I bake them. Doesn't seem to be a problem.

[Ausglock]

mixed coating will last for around 6 to 12 months in a sealed container stored in a cool, dry place.
It will darken slightly over this time.

[dikman]

I would say that the bottom line is if it passes the smash test then it's bonded to the metal, can't get much better than that.
Just shoot 'em.

[ThaDoubleJ]

Quick question, off topic to my other questions, but I'm curious if I can cast and coat .458s, then size them down to .452 and shoot them in my 454 Casull. Sizing down .007 to .008 seems like a lot to me, but I've never sized a bullet more than a couple thou, so I don't know. I know people are doing it with that same bullet and just lubing.

[Avenger442]

Quick question, off topic to my other questions, but I'm curious if I can cast and coat .458s, then size them down to .452 and shoot them in my 454 Casull. Sizing down .007 to .008 seems like a lot to me, but I've never sized a bullet more than a couple thou, so I don't know. I know people are doing it with that same bullet and just lubing.

I've never used any other lube so I might not be the one to answer this. But I did consult someone on this site last year about sizing down as much as you are wanting and was told it could be done but that I might want to do it in two steps. Like .458 down to .455 then .455 down to .452. I'm not sure if there are dies for those sizes. Doing what I wanted to do in two steps would have required a custom made sizing die so I just gave up the idea. I do cast a .312 that I size down to .309 for my rifles.

I have read every post on this Hi Tek forum and believe I remember some saying that properly coated bullets are so slick that they are easier to size than plain lead. There is also the product that is sold by Hi Tek which is a sizing lube that will not prevent the adhesion of the coating if you coat again after sizing. Contact Donnie at hi-performancebulletcoatings.com I think they sell it and the mold release which I have used.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

The Kryptonite Green has arrived and is ready to ship.
If you wish to place an online order for it you can choose any color and enter Kryptonite Green in the comments section and place the order.

Website is now updated

[Intel6]

Nice. The Bronze 500 is a bloody good High Velocity coating.
BTW...Neal.
Are you the Neal in AZ on the Glocklist?

Trevor, sorry about the late response, I don't get on the boards as frequently as I would like. Yes, that is me over on Glock list. I don't get on there as much as I would like either.


Neal in AZ

[Avenger442]

Trevor
You guys reminded me about a question I got at the range the other day about Glocks, polygonal rifling and Hi Tek. Are you shooting Hi Tek coated bullets in a polygonal barrel?

[Rompin Ruger]

I ordered a nice box full cause in conversation, a shooter here used to do .40 SW Glock and said he never had any trouble... trouble came guys shooting normal lubed lead, I read (?) and the Glock has a slightly oversize bore so gas cutting was causing leading and they were "spray and pray(ing)" and leaded it and burst the bbl... Dunno if that is gosphel or not, but others say lots of gun mfg say they won't warranty with handloads or lead projectiles...

Anxious to hear what the others say... :)

[ThaDoubleJ]

I've never used any other lube so I might not be the one to answer this. But I did consult someone on this site last year about sizing down as much as you are wanting and was told it could be done but that I might want to do it in two steps. Like .458 down to .455 then .455 down to .452. I'm not sure if there are dies for those sizes. Doing what I wanted to do in two steps would have required a custom made sizing die so I just gave up the idea. I do cast a .312 that I size down to .309 for my rifles.

I have read every post on this Hi Tek forum and believe I remember some saying that properly coated bullets are so slick that they are easier to size than plain lead. There is also the product that is sold by Hi Tek which is a sizing lube that will not prevent the adhesion of the coating if you coat again after sizing. Contact Donnie at hi-performancebulletcoatings.com I think they sell it and the mold release which I have used.

I use Lee stuff, so I could size .454 then .452, but I'm at about $50 at that point, might be more economical to just find a used, heavy .452 mold.

[Ausglock]

Trevor
You guys reminded me about a question I got at the range the other day about Glocks, polygonal rifling and Hi Tek. Are you shooting Hi Tek coated bullets in a polygonal barrel?

Coated works fine on factory Glock barrels.
Have fired 9mm, 40S&W, 10mm, 45ACP all in factory barrels. zero leading and accurate.
Only problem was with the 40 G35 barrel. The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die caused the bullets to get reduced in dia. caused severe leading.
Swapped over to the Dillon crimp die and Zero leading.

[HI-TEK]

"I didn't see this with the liquid colors. Could this be something associated with the powder colors? Say how long we are mixing or combining of the catalyzing agent with the color and acetone?"

Avenger
The powders use different ingredients with coloured components.
The liquid coatings contain materials that cannot be made into powders, so I had to try and get materials that were not exactly identical to liquid colour additives, and I spent a lot of time and experimentation's to match colours as closely as possible.
Unfortunately, these ingredients are loaded at quite high levels, and it is possible, that not all the colour is locked into baked coatings, hence slight colour on tests.
You dont need a lot of colour bleeding out to make a stain with solvent tests.

Just to confirm things,
the solvent test, was designed to determine if coating has cured or not.
If all the coating is removed with solvent after bake, the coating was not cured or not reached correct temperature for long enough.
If solvent test starts removing coating, then trying to re-coat that non adequately coated film, the new coating mix will act like a paint stripper to previous coating, and cause a mess. No worries when this happens, it is easy to fix.
If using coating mixture, and this removes previous coating, you can simply add a little Acetone plus new cast alloy to coating bucket/container, and the extra solvent re-dissolves/mixes all the coating, and, this will spread and even out coating, and spread it onto the additional non-coated alloy..
Hope this helps

[Marvin]

I've been using zombie green for a couple of months now, and after a ruff start it's amazing how easy it is after you read and follow the directions. but now i'm thinking about getting another color, where can i find some photos of what the bullets look like color wise. when i bought the powder to begin with they had a color chart but that didn't really help. i've seen a lot of photos here but would like to see all the colors together if possible.

thanks in advance Marvin

[Rompin Ruger]

Just my $.02, Marvin, but no computer is going to portray true colors... and as you have read here, even small variations in bake time can cause some interesting color shifts...

Bayou bullets has some nice color choice squares for given bullets...

I bought their Red Copper and it's really red copper...mine came out looking like brass, which I don't mind one bit. In fact I like it better then Red Copper, but thta was liquid I got 2 yrs ago, before powder, and I may not be able to reproduce it now, who knows...it's slick as greased owl snot...so as long as it doesn't lead, I'm happy, but that is me. YMMV.

[HI-TEK]

I've been using zombie green for a couple of months now, and after a ruff start it's amazing how easy it is after you read and follow the directions. but now i'm thinking about getting another color, where can i find some photos of what the bullets look like color wise. when i bought the powder to begin with they had a color chart but that didn't really help. i've seen a lot of photos here but would like to see all the colors together if possible.

thanks in advance Marvin


Marvin,
I will try to get as many coated projectiles baked pictures together, and try and post them. I am not very good with posting them on this site, but will get some help, and I will post.
Joe

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Marvin,
What color your interested in, perhaps I can help.

[SAndy37]

A question for the smart folks here:
After some trial and error I have managed to get the Hi Tek to work as anticipated. In my brand new Beretta 92-A1 they shoot beautifully, but in older (I'm assuming more worn bores,I get regular keyholes. The frequency seems to be related to the mileage of the barrel. This is going to sound like a pretty stupid question, but I usually shoot (9mmP) that is cast, resized down to .350-.351, copper electroplated, and resized to .35510-.35530. I have no experience with making lead lubed bullets.
I'm assuming my problem is resizing the HiTek coated cores down to the low .355s. What I have read, lubed lead projectiles should be slightly oversized. I'm assuming that I should be using the same oversized techinique that is used with lubed lead (which in reality, although this is much much cleaner and prettier, this is)
Sorry for the dumb questions in advance.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

A question for the smart folks here:
After some trial and error I have managed to get the Hi Tek to work as anticipated. In my brand new Beretta 92-A1 they shoot beautifully, but in older (I'm assuming more worn bores,I get regular keyholes. The frequency seems to be related to the mileage of the barrel. This is going to sound like a pretty stupid question, but I usually shoot (9mmP) that is cast, resized down to .350-.351, copper electroplated, and resized to .35510-.35530. I have no experience with making lead lubed bullets.
I'm assuming my problem is resizing the HiTek coated cores down to the low .355s. What I have read, lubed lead projectiles should be slightly oversized. I'm assuming that I should be using the same oversized techinique that is used with lubed lead (which in reality, although this is much much cleaner and prettier, this is)
Sorry for the dumb questions in advance.


.356-.357 diameter is what most folks use in 9mm. You may want to slug your bore and go .001-.002 over bore diameter.

[Ausglock]

I have seen Beretta barrels vary from .354 up to .358

I have 3 Beretts users in my club and I have to make 3 different sized bullets for them.
one is .3565 other is .357 last is .358.
none of them are accurate with the wrong sizing.

I hate Berettas.

[dikman]

General rule-of-thumb is .001 oversize. As Donny said you really need to slug your bore to find out what's going on.

[Marvin]

Marvin,
What color your interested in, perhaps I can help.

i was thinking about something red. you know green and red makes for a good Christmas theme bullets. but to be honest i'd like to see whats out there. the powder coating guys have a whole thread for photos.

[SAndy37]

Thanks for the help! I have a new batch brewing that will get sized to 357 and will try that!
(Awesome Thread BTW, thanks for all the contributions!)

[Ausglock]

HITEK's new Powdered Black.
Blacker than the devil's heart.
Blacker than a Black Cat's ****.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160914_194407.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160914_194407.jpg.html)

[Gremlin460]

I have seen Beretta barrels vary from .354 up to .358

I have 3 Beretts users in my club and I have to make 3 different sized bullets for them.
one is .3565 other is .357 last is .358.
none of them are accurate with the wrong sizing.

I hate Berettas.

My 92 inox slugs to 356.2 and I size to 358 for it with zero keyholes.
I love my Beretta , at least its not doing that jack rabbit IPICAC or whatever 007 running about style is called...... :P


Ps saw some Susan Isl'd projectiles last sat.. nice work!

[Ausglock]

Thanks, Grem.

[wlkjr]

I had 4 containers of about 250-300 dark green .380 boolits that I coated about a month ago. Today I dumped all of them in a big coffee can and started to load some of them. When I finished loading about 200 of them I noticed green residue on my fingers. I did a wipe test and got more staining than usual. They pass the smash test. The four containers passed the wipe test initially. Not sure what is going on here.
I loaded about 300 9mm in candy apple red that I cooked at the same time and did not have that issue.
Going to the range tomorrow and test these out.

[wlkjr]

In addition to my above post, I was looking at bayou bullets website and noticed that they state the dark green is in short supply from the manufacturer. It is also not shown on the hi performance website.

[HI-TEK]

In addition to my above post, I was looking at bayou bullets website and noticed that they state the dark green is in short supply from the manufacturer. It is also not shown on the hi performance website.

WLKJR
There is a new large shipment under way to the US, of Dark Green liquid.
It should be there in 4-6 weeks.
There will be plenty available upon arrival.
With the Dark Green powder, a small amount was sent for trials. That is the one that is in limited amounts in the US.
Until orders are placed, for the Dark Green powder, there is really no point in sending large shipments if there is no demand for the product.

[wlkjr]

Well then, I'm glad I've got enough of the dark green powder to last me a while as I only use it on the .380s. I may try some of the black to see how it does.

[dsa]

Looks great!

[dikman]

That black does look strangely attractive.......[smilie=1:.

[Avenger442]

That black does look strangely attractive.......[smilie=1:.


And you don't even have to worry about cooking too long or too hot, it's already black.

[Warhead]

HITEK's new Powdered Black.
Blacker than the devil's heart.
Blacker than a Black Cat's ****.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160914_194407.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160914_194407.jpg.html)

That black looks awesome!!!! :)
I need some hehee

[Warhead]

Also, I forgot to post those pictures of that Dark blue that comes out green.177047177048177049177050

[Ausglock]

Warhead. What make of press is that? Any better photos?

[dikman]

It's blue, so must be a Dillon!:lol::lol::lol:

Seriously, what I can see of it does look intriguing.

[Ausglock]

Fairly sure it isn't a Dillon.

[benellinut]

Look's kinda like a Star design, a Star as it might be made in 2016. Love to see more pics and info.177074https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/styles/default/xenforo/clear.pnghttp://forums.thecmp.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Warhead]

Yep, it's a Dillon, it's a beast of a by-gone era........ A RL1000, serial number #099, I take more pics of it in the morning when I am in the garage.

Still don't know why my Dark blue comes out green, but hay it works great, and you mix in some candy apple red bullets and your in the Christmas spirit!!! :D

[dikman]

I win!:happy dance:
Umm, what did I win....?

[Ausglock]

I win!:happy dance:
Umm, what did I win....?

All expences paid trip to the Dunny. Congrats.

[Warhead]

More pictures as promised!!
Please don't mind the messy bench....


177108
177109
177110
177112

I had purchased the press used form a retired commercial reloader, along with a Ammo-load MK5 who claimed he had loaded over 1,000,000 round with it. Now I don't know if that is true, actually I kinda doubt it myself. But I have loaded about 10,000 on it so far and it is awesome, you can load about a 1,000 in an hour easily taking your time.
The only annoying thing is the swager gets clogged up pretty quick and you need to disassemble and clean it or the press handle wont go all the way down, and you end up with ammo that has OL issues.

[benellinut]

Thanks for posting the pics! Looks like a hell of a machine, that's a huge powder hopper, I bet it was meant for commercial use. I wonder why they stopped selling them.

[Ausglock]

Thanks for posting the pics! Looks like a hell of a machine, that's a huge powder hopper, I bet it was meant for commercial use. I wonder why they stopped selling them.
Updated to the RL SUPER1050.

[dikman]

Man, that is a nice machine!

[Warhead]

Updated to the RL SUPER1050.

Yea, because this machine almost put Dillon out of business it was so expensive, and they soled so few of them, then thy came out with the 550. The 1050, is nothing more then this press made cheaper, and with more plastic, and in my opinion not nearly as nice. I have a Super 1050 as well and I really almost never use it.

Powder hopper holds 2 pounds of WST powder by the way.

[jeep45238]

Learned a big lesson last night on this!


Previously I've been tumbling these in an old metal coffee can that was washed - has thousands of bullets through it. I could never get the coating consistent, and it was typically either heavy and slightly bubbled, or didn't coat them all. In an attempt to speed things up (or tinker...your pick) I chucked my drill up to it with an arbor and promptly tore the arbor out from the torque involved. WHoops.


For a replacement I snagged the cheapest Tupperware square I could find at Kroger's, whatever the house brand was ($2 for 4 containers/lids) with a nearly cube shape.


Instantly, I was using a LOT less coatings, and what I was seeing was exactly what I've seen in photos - a light stain for the first coat, quick dry times, and even colors in the oven. There was plenty of left over residual coating in the bottom of the container as well, indicating that my short little squirt of liquid coating was more than enough.


So - use cheap impervious clear containers for this. It provides for a more even consistent coat, and allows visual inspection of the process to see how things are coming along during the shaking process. I wish I would have done this a long time ago.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=jeep45238;3785945]Learned a big lesson last night on this!

" There was plenty of left over residual coating in the bottom of the container as well, indicating that my short little squirt of liquid coating was more than enough."

Hi Jeep,
Glad that you had good results.
My only 5 cents worth is, that if you had coating mixture residue after coating, then you used possibly too much mixture.
No problems at all.
If you have a standard volume added to your coating container, then simply increase the amount of projectiles to coat, and that way you coat more with using same volume.
If you start to get a dry coating build up inside your container, simply add Acetone, and coat with re-dissolved mix to use up the coating residues.
Alternatively, use just a little Acetone to re-dissolve residues, and then use/add that mixture in next coating brew mix.
Until you bake the coatings, they can be recycled/recovered, over and over without problems so users get most economic use of coatings.

[Gremlin460]

Square containers coat better, the sides "bounce the casts" around for better distribution of the coating.

[Ausglock]

round containers with internal paddles work fine.

[Avenger442]

Need to ask a question almost completely off topic. I recently came across some new Hornady loading dies at about half the normal price. I've been looking at doing 45-70 and 23-06 so I snapped up those dies. When I started looking for sizing dies for the 25-06 I found that Lee doesn't make a push through in .258. Question is how hard is it to take a smaller Lee sizing die and make a .258? Easiest method?

[dikman]

If the die is hardened (and I'm pretty sure it will be) then unless you can anneal it you're going to have trouble working it! I bought a length of steel 7/8 x 14 tpi threaded rod and made my own die. I drilled it through, cut a taper inside, opened out the other end a bit and then slowly opened up the taper until I had the required size. A bit nerve-wracking, but it worked. And no, I didn't bother hardening it as it's only squeezing softish lead down.

I should add that I did re-work a Lee die once, but I had to heat it up to anneal it first. Chipped the cutting tool at my first attempt!

[Ausglock]

Just get Lathesmith on here to make you one.
His sizer dies are fantastic.

[Avenger442]

Thanks guys for the info. Wanted to start a new project but looks like health insurance through my retirement plan just ate that money. Went up another $105 a month. Fourth increase in two years. BCBS has always been on the low end of my expectation but they are the only choice through my retirement.

Well Hi Tek coating is still cheap and I've got casting lead, powder and primers for the foreseeable future.

[popper]

Rewrite:
I'd used the liquid green for many 500 count batches a few years ago, no problem Then failed a couple batches early this year, usually on third coat. Same results with the 1035 gold powder. Good at first, then failure. Failure noted mostly during sizing. I mix properly and shake very well before using. Bumpy coated surface is likely to get ripped off during sizing, down to bare lead. Coating in a 'dirty' container appears to be the problem. IMHO it's due to the acetone loosening but not dissolving dry coating. My 'tumbler' is a largemouth square plastic jug. First coat came out smooth and OK, next coating was a little rough, keeps getting rougher. Coatings a day apart, same mix. I'll try MEK for further coatings . Tumbler has closed lid so not real 'dirt' problem.

[farmerjim]

I had the same problem with old original swamp green rough Hi-Tek coming off during sizing. I sprayed a small amount of Hornady one shot on them. They sized easier and none of the Hi-Tek came off.

[benellinut]

I'm a noob at all this, so this is just a question for my own curiosity and not meant as a wise guy. Lubing them to resize to avoid the coating coming off works but will the coating come off in the barrel? I guess you'd see leading if it did, just wondering if under the heat and pressure during firing would iffy coating fail?

[popper]

B.N. I tumble lubed with BLL on the 40SW batch that had been done with the green. Worked fine, no leading. Alox works as well, just stinks bad. Just tried cleaning the green tumble jug - still has some 'grit' in it. Last time I used it was Jan, IIRC, gold jug was before that. I'm not going to waste time lubing coated boolits just to size.

[220]

You guys talking about coating larger bullets got me to thinking. Is anyone shooting the Hi Tek in larger caliber rifles over 30 cal? If I can save the cash one day to buy one, would like to try it in a 375 H&H or maybe a 45-70. If I get rich and can find a three mile range maybe a Barrett 50 cal. That's a big bullet.

Bit late but yes I cast and coat for both 375H&H and 45/70 with great results.
Haven't done as much testing and hunting with them as I would like but am quite happy with the results
Pretty much settled on my 45/70 load,
NOE 405RF PB cast as a HP, 96:2:2, 3 coats HT, 47gr AR2208 is giving me 1550fps and averaging under 1/2" for 3 shots at 50y
Just looked at my initial testing and tried 10 loads with two different powders velocities from 1200-1550fps only 3 went over 1" at 50y and all were under 1.5", 3 were under 1/2".

In the H&H using NOE 275FN GC again as a HP with same alloy and coating, currently using 38gr AR2207 for 1850fps and a 3 shot average just under 1.5moa for testing at 50 & 100y. Has shot a few sub 1" at 100y. Think we should be able to get the H&H to 2000fps with further testing and really turn it into a 200y cast medium game rifle.

[dikman]

popper, a club member recently made me a 4-gang brass mold for my .38, so I figured I'd better cast a few boolits (did 660!). I coated about 100 and then started sizing them. They're fractionally bigger than my Lee .357 mold drops, and after the first few I had to rebuild the handle/pivot arm system on my el-cheapo Lee clone single stage press, such was the effort needed. I then decided to lube them very lightly and it made all the difference, they just slide though now. While lubing coated bullets seems a bit silly, in this case I have no choice.

The lube is a case lube I mixed a couple of years ago, from memory it's mutton tallow and olive oil (to keep it soft). I put a small dab in a container and throw in a handful (or two) of boolits and swirl them a bit. It puts on just enough to help them slide easier, and doesn't take very long - mind you it makes them a bit slippery to pick up!!!.

[Ausglock]

Why not use the HITEK Aqualube 5000?
Turns an arm strong sizing job into a fingertip job.

[HI-TEK]

Why not use the HITEK Aqualube 5000?
Turns an arm strong sizing job into a fingertip job.


It also leaves all coated projectiles dry non contaminating and clean and does not interfere with re-coating like oily/greasy lubes.
A very little goes a very very long way. But, downside is that it is quite expensive as a concentrate, but it works.
It was initially designed to size very hard alloys which nearly breaks sizing machine. Using this stuff, same slug glides through with huge reduction in effort.

[ioon44]

The HITEK Aqualube 5000 definitely makes it easier for old arms and shoulders using a Star sizer lubber.

[Teknikal]

Ok... here is a 45 230gn RN that fell off the baking tray and was sitting on the bottom of the oven for 3 hours of baking at 200 deg C.
With it is a bullet that got the normal 7 1/2 minute bake cycle.
Both were smashed and you can see the results.
Both were coated with Kryptonite green.
Over baking only changed the colour.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160821_164651.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160821_164651.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160821_164742.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160821_164742.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160821_164829_1.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160821_164829_1.jpg.html)

Both pass the wipe and smash tests with flying colours.
So ausglock, you bake at 200deg celecius for 7 1/2 mins? I'm trying to get my zombie green to look like yours 😀. Picked up a standard oven and I thought I had it but color wiped off. I tried 380degF for 8 mins. Then tries 385 for 10 mins and they were turning brown. Was only baking 1lb of bullets, if that mattered. Oh, what ratio do u use again?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[dikman]

Why not use the HITEK Aqualube 5000?
Turns an arm strong sizing job into a fingertip job.
Probably because I'm getting old and forgot I have some? :oops:.

[Ausglock]

My oven has been gutted and re-wired so as to give fast heatup and temp control. Most benchtop ovens need 10 to 12 minutes at 200 Deg C for one tray of 2.5kg of bullets.

My green is Kryptonite green. Not Zombie Green.
I might have to try the ZG in the big oven to see if the time is the same as KG.
Powder gets mixed 20gms to 100 mls of Acetone. If you are in a hot, dry locality, add 20mls of denatured alcohol to slow down the flashing off while swirling.
trying to bake small quantities is a pain. that is why I standadise in 2.5kg. That amount of bullets per tray is easy to handle. I bake 2 trays at a time in the big oven for 7 1/2 min at 200deg C.
When the bullets exit the oven, they are 203deg C when shot with an IR thermometer.

[Teknikal]

Ok thanks ausglock. Where can I buy Kryptonite green? Do u like the liquid or powder formula better?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Ausglock]

Have used both and the powdered version is easier to mix but both work fine.
Liquid version can be used immediately after mixing.
Powdered version needs to be left for 30 minutes to react before use.

[wlkjr]

I have both the Zombi and Kryptonite Greens and cannot tell the difference just looking at the color of the powders. I haven't used the Kryptonite yet but hope it turns out a different color.

[Avenger442]

Powder gets mixed 20gms to 100 mls of Acetone. If you are in a hot, dry locality, as 20mls of denatured alchahol to slow down the flashing off while swirling.


I must have missed something along the way. I remember acetone and was it MEK. I didn't remember denatured alcohol. So I can use it also as a solvent in place of the acetone? Same amount? Are there other solvents that have been used successfully?

[Ausglock]

I must have missed something along the way. I remember acetone and was it MEK. I didn't remember denatured alcohol. So I can use it also as a solvent in place of the acetone? Same amount? Are there other solvents that have been used successfully?
No.....You still use acetone or MEK. denatured Alchohol is only to slow down the flashoff. I tried it on its own and it took like 10 minutes of swirling and it still was not dry. arms got tired from swirling, so gave up and melted them down.
You need to remember that I am continually trying different things with this coating. It is all experimental til it has been tried and tested.
There are far more people using this in many different climates. people asked about slowing down the flash off time. So I talk to HITEK Joe and we throw ideas around. A lot of the things I try do not work, so into the melt down pot they go. At any one time, I have about 8000 135gn RN 9mm bullets sitting here to be used for testing. 250 at a time. 2 days ago, I melted down 2500 test failures. a new colour that failed to bake. a black that was brown. a black that was too thin. a blue that went black etc etc etc...
There is a lot happening that nobody knows about.
I have on hand at least a litre or more of every colour used by the commercial casters/coaters here in OZ.
Every batch that goes to the USA has samples sent by Joe for testing prior to dispatch to verify quality.
So if you lot have issues with the coating, it is your error......lol:bigsmyl2::kidding:

[Warhead]

No.....You still use acetone or MEK. denatured Alchohol is only to slow down the flashoff. I tried it on its own and it took like 10 minutes of swirling and it still was not dry. arms got tired from swirling, so gave up and melted them down.
You need to remember that I am continually trying different things with this coating. It is all experimental til it has been tried and tested.
There are far more people using this in many different climates. people asked about slowing down the flash off time. So I talk to HITEK Joe and we throw ideas around. A lot of the things I try do not work, so into the melt down pot they go. At any one time, I have about 8000 135gn RN 9mm bullets sitting here to be used for testing. 250 at a time. 2 days ago, I melted down 2500 test failures. a new colour that failed to bake. a black that was brown. a black that was too thin. a blue that went black etc etc etc...
There is a lot happening that nobody knows about.
I have on hand at least a litre or more of every colour used by the commercial casters/coaters here in OZ.
Every batch that goes to the USA has samples sent by Joe for testing prior to dispatch to verify quality.
So if you lot have issues with the coating, it is your error......lol:bigsmyl2::kidding:


Speaking of that black, that stuff looked awesome! What ever happened to the orange ya'll were working on?

[Teknikal]

No.....You still use acetone or MEK. denatured Alchohol is only to slow down the flashoff. I tried it on its own and it took like 10 minutes of swirling and it still was not dry. arms got tired from swirling, so gave up and melted them down.
You need to remember that I am continually trying different things with this coating. It is all experimental til it has been tried and tested.
There are far more people using this in many different climates. people asked about slowing down the flash off time. So I talk to HITEK Joe and we throw ideas around. A lot of the things I try do not work, so into the melt down pot they go. At any one time, I have about 8000 135gn RN 9mm bullets sitting here to be used for testing. 250 at a time. 2 days ago, I melted down 2500 test failures. a new colour that failed to bake. a black that was brown. a black that was too thin. a blue that went black etc etc etc...
There is a lot happening that nobody knows about.
I have on hand at least a litre or more of every colour used by the commercial casters/coaters here in OZ.
Every batch that goes to the USA has samples sent by Joe for testing prior to dispatch to verify quality.
So if you lot have issues with the coating, it is your error......lol:bigsmyl2::kidding:
So ausglock, substitute 20ml of denatured alcohol for acetone or just add 20ml to the 100ml of acetone? I can only swirl for 10 seconds before they start sticking. I'm already using 120ml to 20grams

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Ausglock]

The Orange didn't work.
Add the 20 mls to the 100 mls of Acetone.
still use 6mls per 2.5Kg of bullets.

[Avenger442]

So if you lot have issues with the coating, it is your error......lol:bigsmyl2::kidding:

Now you know that I have always blamed all of my failures on you Aussies being upside down. :razz::razz::razz:

The denatured trick is good to know. Might allow me to tumble longer to coat inside the groves and hollow points.

[HI-TEK]

Speaking of that black, that stuff looked awesome! What ever happened to the orange ya'll were working on?

That new Black K-15 looks really great. I dont know what I did but ,m ust have fluked it somehow.....lol...lol As we speak, the Black K-15, will be under way to US this week in limited amounts.
The Orange, ended up looking like Desert Sand tan colour. I liked it but Ausglock, being so picky did not like that colour. :bigsmyl2::kidding:

[ioon44]

I just got some Kryptonite green powder and I am looking for advice on using it compared to Candy Apple Red powder of which I have really good results with.

[wlkjr]

I haven't used my kryptonite green yet but will mix it just like my candy apple red

[wlkjr]

Avenger, are you coating in a closed container or open?

[Avenger442]

Avenger, are you coating in a closed container or open?

I have done both. Most of the time I use a closed container tumble 30 seconds and dump onto drying tray. I use Cool Whip containers. Flash off is slower in a closed container and a little cleaner when you tumble and dump. You have to be careful when using closed as it can give you a too thick 1st coat if you use coating that is not thinned enough or tumble too long. I'm a bit deaf in one ear and a whole lot in the other (too many years on construction sites back in the 70s and 80s with no hearing protection) and there seems to be no hearing aid made that will help. So listening for the change in sound when open tumbling is hard. The closed tumble seems to work for me. But open tumble is the recommended method.

Casting today. Ran out of bullets to coat so I'm going to cast as many as I can of the most accurate bullet I've used in the .308s. And maybe some hollow point 44s if I have time. Have had a lot on my plate lately so time has to be be scheduled for casting and coating. I thought retirement was going to be all my time LOL.:roll:

[Ausglock]

I haven't used my kryptonite green yet but will mix it just like my candy apple red
Yep. same same.

[dikman]

I thought retirement was going to be all my time LOL.:roll:

Yeah, so did I......

[Warhead]

That new Black K-15 looks really great. I dont know what I did but ,m ust have fluked it somehow.....lol...lol As we speak, the Black K-15, will be under way to US this week in limited amounts.
The Orange, ended up looking like Desert Sand tan colour. I liked it but Ausglock, being so picky did not like that colour. :bigsmyl2::kidding:


That's awesome on the K-15 Black, I will buy some as soon as I can!

[Southern Son]

I have a question for the experts about this hitek coating. I did a bunch of 44mags with Texas Tea black, first coat seemed OK, baked it on, and then put on the second coat. It was at this point that I did something stupid. I decided to get back into my knife making and lit up the grinder, not thinking about the batch of 44s sitting on the table a little bit away, I managed to cover pretty much everything in the shed with a fine coat of stabilised bulloak dust. Will this burn off when I bake the second coat, will it be cooked into the coating? How can I clean the dust off if it is going to be a problem? Compressed air? Or have completly stuffed it up and will I need to re-cast?

[HI-TEK]

How can I clean the dust off if it is going to be a problem? Compressed air? Or have completly stuffed it up and will I need to re-cast?


Well, this is a dusty situation.
If first coat passed all tests, second coat should stick.
As long as you have not made hundreds and hundreds that are dusted, you should not worry.
My suggestion is, simply bake a handful as is. See how they turn out.
Smash test, and size a few. This should tell all.
I really do not think that the wood dust will affect shooting, sizing or the coating, but I could be wrong. My guess is that you will end up with a non gloss finish.
Let all know your findings,
Joe

[Ausglock]

If the second coat has not been baked, why not put them in a bucket of acetone and wash the coating (and dust) off them?
Let dry and then re-coat and bake...

[Ausglock]

Coating 12Ga. slugs cast out of pure Lead.
All pass smash and wipe test.
Colour is Kryptonite green.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_202342.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_202342.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_203713.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_203713.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_203656.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_203656.jpg.html)

[HI-TEK]

Coating 12Ga. slugs cast out of pure Lead.
All pass smash and wipe test.
Colour is Kryptonite green.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_202342.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_202342.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_203713.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_203713.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_203656.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161006_203656.jpg.html)


Goes to show, that the coating seems to be OK on soft Lead also. The coating is probably harder than the Lead these were made from. It will be interesting how these go with trials.

[dikman]

I coated some pure lead boolits (for my cowboy shooting) in .38 and .44-40. Both worked fine.

[Southern Son]

Well, this is a dusty situation.
If first coat passed all tests, second coat should stick.
As long as you have not made hundreds and hundreds that are dusted, you should not worry.
My suggestion is, simply bake a handful as is. See how they turn out.
Smash test, and size a few. This should tell all.
I really do not think that the wood dust will affect shooting, sizing or the coating, but I could be wrong. My guess is that you will end up with a non gloss finish.
Let all know your findings,
Joe

The only reason I am suspect on cooking them with the dust is that the wood was stabilised with cactus juice so it is not just wood, it has some polymer or something in it.

[Southern Son]

If the second coat has not been baked, why not put them in a bucket of acetone and wash the coating (and dust) off them?
Let dry and then re-coat and bake...

I didn't even think of this. Might have to give it a go. Thanks.

[dikman]

Cactus Juice contains "methacrylate ester monomers". Although the stuff is heat-cured, I have no idea whether it could react with Hi-Tek coating, but maybe it will mean something to Joe?

I reckon the best bet will be to clean it off, at least then you won't have to melt them down if it doesn't work.

[HI-TEK]

Cactus Juice contains "methacrylate ester monomers". Although the stuff is heat-cured, I have no idea whether it could react with Hi-Tek coating, but maybe it will mean something to Joe?

I reckon the best bet will be to clean it off, at least then you won't have to melt them down if it doesn't work.


I have never come across a product called Cactus Juice. However I do know about Acrylics and poly-Acrylics.
I used to manage a company where we re-cycled Acrylic plastic (Perspex and the like), back into Acrylic liquid that they were made from. Process was using heat with a special low melting alloyed Lead, which de-polymerized the Acrylic plastic into Methyl Methacrylate Monomer, which was then distilled under Vacuum, and stabilised.
With all acrylics, they soften and decompose with heat at various rates, depending on type of original acrylic used.
I don't think that any Acrylic will be good with the Hi-Tek, in any form, due to their poor heat tolerance/resistance.

Washing contaminated Hi-Tek that has not been cured, may be OK, but I question economics. User has to weigh up just how much solvent, (and cost) will be required, as possibly two or three rinses may be required to remove all contaminants, not to mention coating loss. That is why I initially suggested to simply to bake only a few and determine effects of contaminant on finally cured finish.
The fumes may be quite strong if a lot of Acrylic is present in contaminant.

[Ausglock]

With the acetone used to wash the bullets.
I filter it through Coffee filter paper and re-use the acetone to make more coating mix.

[Gremlin460]

With the acetone used to wash the bullets.
I filter it through Coffee filter paper and re-use the acetone to make more coating mix.

Doesn't that make the next coffee taste funny?

[Southern Son]

I think that I will just try baking the lot. If it goes wonky, then I will re-cast. I don't have enough acetone to try the disolve it idea, and if I am firing up the oven to do some baking, then I might as well give the whole batch a shot, if a small batch fails, then the whole lot would get re-melted anyway.

[HI-TEK]

I think that I will just try baking the lot. If it goes wonky, then I will re-cast. I don't have enough acetone to try the disolve it idea, and if I am firing up the oven to do some baking, then I might as well give the whole batch a shot, if a small batch fails, then the whole lot would get re-melted anyway.

I really hope it works out for you.
May I suggest, that if the coating is dry, then simply roll/shake around the coated projectiles on a rough cloth like Hessian, to remove as much of the loose powdered dust before baking. This may help with minimizing any negative effects with baking on some of the remaining contaminants.
I would really like to get your results after your experiment.

[dikman]

Joe, just for your info, Cactus Juice is used for stabilizing timber for making knife handles, pens etc. The wood is immersed in the liquid and put into a vacuum chamber, where it is pulled into the pores of the wood. Untreated wood, when used for knife handles, has an unfortunate tendency to shrink over time, which is not a good thing on an expensive custom made knife! This stuff, and similar concoctions, generally stops the wood from moving.

A home-made brew uses perspex dissolved in acetone and from your explanation I now know that this is pretty much the same thing.

[HI-TEK]

A home-made brew uses perspex dissolved in acetone and from your explanation I now know that this is pretty much the same thing.

Interesting. Thanks for your input.

I make somewhat similar material, a liquid gel Acrylic, (no Acetone used), that can be used to repair cracked Acrylic lenses on cars. It is used to repair lenses, that are no longer available and the brew simply is applied to cracked or broken area, where, then the original plastic "melts" into the gel structured brew, and with UV, or appropriate Catalyst, the whole lot fuses to form a solid plastic.
The colours can be matched to original lens colour so it looks like a new one without cracks.
I suppose that such a brew may be suitable for impregnation of Timbers or other porous materials, that would be then converted to Acrylic impregnated product after cure.

[Ausglock]

We use a permethrin preservative applied under Vacuum for our dry hardwoods, Or LOSP for interior timbers.
In 40 years of Working in the timber game, never heard of Cactus Juice.

[dikman]

I'm not surprised you may not have heard of it. It's American (:roll:), well-known to knifemakers (which is probably it's main market and who it was designed for) and as far as I know not available here in Oz.

Isn't permethrin the stuff they use in bug sprays??

[Ausglock]

yep. it sure is. It is a commercial wood preservative made by Arch Chemicals ( formally Koppers)

[Southern Son]

I got the Cactus juice from an Aussie vendor...

http://www.timberbits.com/cactus-juice

Hi-tek, I will give the boolits a blast with my Air Compressor and then a roll in an old towel.

Next time I will finish one task before starting another, that will confuse my wife and might prevent something like this happening again...

[Avenger442]

I thought that it might be good to show some of the guys starting out a too thick first coat.

178514 The bullet on the left has way too much coating on it for first coat. Bullet on the right is just about right for the first coat. This happened when I failed to notice the, for lack of a better word, sludge that had built up in the bottom of my tumbling bowl. The bullets on the bottom picked it up and instead of washing it off I though I would use it as an example. Bullets were dried for about a half hour on top of a hot oven with fan blowing on them in 45% humidity controlled basement.

178515 This is after first bake. As you can see the bullet on the left has a rough texture because of the bubbled coating. All of the bullets that picked up the additional coating did this.

178516 This is after smash test. I fully expected the thick coating to fail smash test and come off when sized. (I put on gas checks and size after first coat) Neither happened. But if you look close there are some specks of coating that came of at smash. I have had a complete failure of the coating at sizing when I coated too thick in the past.

Coating was more forgiving than I expected in this case.

[dikman]

Avenger, good idea posting the comparison photos, might help clarify the idea of thin coats to newcomers.

SS, thanks for that. Quite some time ago a knifemaker, who I built a vacuum chamber for, was trying to find that stuff but we couldn't find it anywhere here. Next time I see him I'll let him know, if he's still interested. I think he found something else in the meantime. HI-TEK's stuff sounds like it's the same thing, possibly just a little thicker in consistency.

[rcslotcar]

Thanks Avenger. I have everything to start coating except the wire screen. I got a small convection cookie oven and all the chemicals ready. I have been reading here and looking at "you tube" video's. I've been casting and lubing for about two years and am ready to venture into Hi Tek now! I would like to thank everyone for all the info they have posted here.

[Avenger442]

This series of post started me coating with Hi Tek. I have read all of them but started back when it was about 1200 or 1500. I had been casting for about a year and was looking for a lubricant. Looked at just about everything the waxes/greases, alox, powder coating, copper plating. I even looked at paper patch after starting Hi Tek. I thought that this would be the one to start with and it has been the only one that I have used as a lube. Why? Well the end product for me is not necessarily the color or the texture or the beauty of the bullets. Not that you can't get that. I wasn't looking for a nostalgic solution to no lead in the barrel. Understand, I consider any of the above as being a way to keep lead out of the rifling. Some may have a particular advantage over another. Have several pounds of the bees wax and oil lubes on hand. I even have used a mixture of coconut oil and bees wax on the tail of my bullets in black powder cartridges to keep the hard fouling down. Those bullets were coated with Hi Tek. But the end product for me is, can I obtain performance comparable to or better than rounds I can buy with no lead fouling? Hi Tek has accomplished that for me as a lubricant in my bolt rifles, semi auto pistols and revolvers. I have found it fairly forgiving, in it's use, unlike some of the other detailed operations we do as hand loaders. Measuring loads within a tenth of a grain, keeping lead at same temp when casting, head space....... the list goes on and on. Instructions are simple.

I look at what I say about it and sometimes sound like a salesman for Hi Tek. I don't have any ties to it other than I use it. Some of the guys that do the other lubes sound just like me about that lube so they must work, too. If I had not found the Hi Tek I probably would have been powder coating or mixing waxes and oils. And, if I had accomplished the goal, singing their praises.