simple Hi-Tek coating [Archive] - Page 19

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gunoil

12-12-2014, 11:54 AM

Hi-Tek,, thanks again for the mold coat. I use hardline molds. I rub some on while casting, used up my spray can. Liquid is fine for now. Hard iron molds and my lyman molds.

jayjay1

12-13-2014, 05:58 AM

Avenger442

12-13-2014, 12:19 PM

Look here at post #137 please!

Damn, those bullets look amazing:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?247625-MiHec-9-mm-147-HP-or-155-Solid-4-cav-brass-for-alternativ-coating&p=3038348&viewfull=1#post3038348

Has someone done this with HI TEK, and if so, how?

I'm not that into the de colores, but what about two coats of one color and the a third of another color dribbled on with a small paint brush? What do you think?

I have some Gold 1035 liquid and Black 1035 powder. I might try this when I get out of the woods in February.

Ausglock

12-13-2014, 05:16 PM

Well. I don't know.
I cast and coat my bullets so they do not lead my barrels and allow me to shoot more.
I don't coat to look at them.
If I want to ohhh and arrrrhhh over anything, I'll buy a Black label Penthouse mag or Hustler.
:veryconfu

HI-TEK

12-13-2014, 09:23 PM

Look here at post #137 please!

Has someone done this with HI TEK, and if so, how?

JayJay,
Many have used say Black as first coat, and then coated with Red Copper, or Glitter Bronze or Gold as second coat.
One guy was thinking of using Black, and having a thin roller apply a Red stripe along length of projectiles. He was trying to make them look like Red Back Spiders we have here in Australia.
Others, premixed their own brew mix, using two or three colours to get a unique colour, like Green with Gold, Red with Glitter Gold, Black with Gold, Black with Bronze, etc etc.
It all depends on just how much fiddling you wish to do with this, then most importantly, you need to remember ratios used, to reproduce same results over and over to get consistency.
It is possibly very time consuming, and OK for small operators or hobbyists, but what final result is, to shoot them, and not to decorate.
Pretty or fancy, does not matter in final end use, and doing fancy multi-coloured finishes, is not practical to commercial users.

jayjay1

12-14-2014, 05:57 AM

Yeah, well, ok guys, you got me trapped in this.

Of course I´m coating for shooting and not for "bling-bling" first, but, hm, I do like as well some "Aaahs" ond "Ooohs" from the other shooters, because they are anyway thinking I´m having some screws loose...
:-P

With some of those bullets, I think I could manifest this kind of reputation through the ages.
[smilie=w:

Thanks Avenger and Joe, for those tipps, I think I will play around only a little bit.
:oops: :bigsmyl2:

Balta

12-15-2014, 04:34 PM

Some intrested pic..this is 2 bullets fired from .357 magnum at 1350 fps...target load..Bullet is from MP mold 147 HP no lube grove design,coated with HiTek powder version ,Brown copper,3 coats.Alloy is just to hard for expasion but this was just a test load
124525
No leading in barrel,coating hold on very good..

Chunky Monkey

12-17-2014, 04:55 PM

Anyone get Hi Tek sizing lube yet?

HI-TEK

12-17-2014, 05:04 PM

Anyone get Hi Tek sizing lube yet?

If you are referring to US based persons, the shipment was delayed through clearing process and with US Customs.
It has taken 4 weeks after arrival to LA to achieve delivery to Bayou.
I was advised, that delivery should be by this Friday.
Apparently, some already had ordered some sizing lube, and as soon as it arrives, I am sure that Donnie will be pro-active in sending them out.
Locally some already use this stuff for all sorts of applications.
Apology for supply delay.

Chunky Monkey

12-17-2014, 05:09 PM

Thanks Hi Tek. Yep i was referring to US users. I spoke with Donnie last week and he said it could be any day.

Hardline

12-19-2014, 04:24 PM

sparky45

12-19-2014, 05:18 PM

Awesome!!

Chunky Monkey

12-19-2014, 10:03 PM

Called Bayou Bullets and Mr Miculek received his shipment of sizing lube today!

HI-TEK

12-20-2014, 05:07 AM

Hey guys check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pi4cEHMj1s

Its our 38-115-BRN1S bullet design coated with Zombie Green Hi-Tek from Gateway Bullets. What a beautiful coating. The green appears to be laid on top of a gold base. Absolutely awesome stuff! Way to go Hi-Tek! It is great to see all of the different colored coatings you are developing.

Awesome Machine.. Looks like it has all one needs.
Thanks much for kind comment on Hi-Tek.
It seems to like your machine, or, is it your machine likes the coating... I dont know.....as long as they work together, every one is happy.

redrockant

12-21-2014, 12:16 AM

HI Derek
Very impressive machine. May need to send us one down under.
What do you reckon Trev

Ausglock

12-21-2014, 12:42 AM

HI Derek
Very impressive machine. May need to send us one down under.
What do you reckon Trev

I tend to agree.
Herman on steroids......:bigsmyl2:

HI-TEK

12-21-2014, 01:30 AM

I tend to agree.
Herman on steroids......:bigsmyl2:

Why only one, what is wrong with 10 or more. It is very useful for many here.
May be you can buy in bulk, at a great discount, and be a local stockist... who knows some here may want one, two, or more...

Hardline

12-22-2014, 09:57 AM

Awesome Machine.. Looks like it has all one needs.
Thanks much for kind comment on Hi-Tek.
It seems to like your machine, or, is it your machine likes the coating... I dont know.....as long as they work together, every one is happy.

Yes it is our machine. Message me and we'll get one, two, or even a few on their way to you. :-D

6bg6ga

12-22-2014, 10:04 AM

Awesome totally Awesome!!! Have to have one of them. Shoot me a price.

Moonman

12-22-2014, 02:37 PM

6bg6ga,

They are around $5000 in the USA.
(from Hardline ad for the BULLET SIZER
IN POST #4585)

Shotgundrums

12-28-2014, 11:25 AM

Yeowch

Tom_Highway

12-28-2014, 11:34 AM

Damn!, I thought I could buy it. That machine is out of my economic possibilities.
:-(

Avenger442

12-28-2014, 01:26 PM

Damn!, I thought I could buy it. That machine is out of my economic possibilities.
:-(

What do you think it would cost to build one like it? I don't load much for pistol so don't really need massive sizing/loading capability. But, it looks like something well within the realm of the talents of many on this board.

Gremlin460

12-28-2014, 08:31 PM

Damn!, I thought I could buy it. That machine is out of my economic possibilities.
:-(

Here is a unashamed plug for the AS/2 unit and the GM units that I make here in Awstralia, and send to the US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0HBosRviGI

There are 11 of these in use by Castboolit members:- They are cheaper than anything on the market, rugged as all get-out and work. The AS/2 and the GM are sold separately by Matell , no wait!! that was toys... These Toys are available by hunting up the thread in Special projects or in the Vendor section..

Here is a list of the guys to ask what they think of the units..
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?262871-Hall-of-Fame-People-to-talk-to-that-have-an-AS-2

As of this message date, the AS/2 in all calibers is $260 plus freight and the GM mag is $188 plus $48 per set of inserts and Freight.

Sorry to sidetrack the Thread slightly please post questions in VS or special projects... The things love HiTek coating..

Ausglock

12-29-2014, 12:21 AM

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?238711-Home-made-auto-sizer/page15
post #292
This is my home made auto sizer...
enjoy

Michael J. Spangler

12-29-2014, 01:14 AM

Went to put a second coat on some lee 458 405 grains tonight.
Got a work phone call and bakes them for about 30 minutes at 400. They were very dark and ye coating scraped off super easy with my finger nail. Not good. They did pass the wipe and smash test though.
Back to the pot to be melted. Oh well.
On a lighter note i coated some 453423 wit 3 coats of old gold. I'll be shooting them this weekend in some hefty charges in the 45 AR. I'll post some info when I'm done with that.
This thread just keeps on chugging.

Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings

12-29-2014, 04:24 PM

I have the Hi-Tek Dry formula in stock and ready for shipment.
3.5 oz of powder will make a tad more than 1/2 liter coating. $11.50
7.0 oz of powder for 1 liter of mix $19.95
Larger quantities are available if one wishes.
I have the the following colors in stock: Zombie Green, Black, Red Copper, Gold 1035, Texas Tea, Brick Red, Black Cherry and Candy Apple.
Of course shipping/handling is extra. These can ship via US mail so shipping is less expensive than the liquid.
Do not have the product on the website as of yet, so it is best to call or e-mail me.
225 324 4501 bayoubullets@yahoo.com

I also have the sizing lube (Aqualube 5000) in stock but it will be a few more days before I get it ready for shipping

Will try to get some pics posted of the different colors as well.

Donnie

Gremlin460

01-02-2015, 09:22 AM

OK I am not shy so will say it first.. Happy New Year to all the coaters out there, hope you have a great year of coating, and lets all poke Joe until we get new colours!!

cptkeybrd

01-02-2015, 04:23 PM

Happy new year all, Swamprat ordered some dry could you go over the mixing and technique with that.

HI-TEK

01-02-2015, 07:40 PM

OK I am not shy so will say it first.. Happy New Year to all the coaters out there, hope you have a great year of coating, and lets all poke Joe until we get new colours!!

Good on you Gremlin...
Thanks for good wishes.
I would also like to take this opportunity to wish all the best for the new year.
There are far too many colours already....lol...lol next request was candy stripes, polka dot, and Fluoro colours with flashing lights to match Christmas spirit.
Talk about spirit,,,,,, where is my Kentucky Bourbon, I need a few drops after last year......lol...lol

HI-TEK

01-02-2015, 07:46 PM

Happy new year all, Swamprat ordered some dry could you go over the mixing and technique with that.

Happy New year to you.
Swamprat has stocks of many colours, and Gateway has some also.
Mix is simple.
Get Pure Acetone.
Mix about 20 grams powder into about 100mls Acetone. mix in well and if possible leave for an hour or so, mix occasionally in well sealed bottle.
Then, use about 6-7 mls of mixture onto 250 or so boolits, coat quickly, and whilst wet, dump onto wire drying mesh. Let dry well.
Then, bake at 200C for about 10 minutes.
If you are obtaining coating from Bayou or Gateway, they can supply you with detailed instructions of do and don't advice.

Moonman

01-03-2015, 02:40 PM

HI-TEK,

My feelings also, we have enough colors for now. We need to expose more
casters to these wonderful products.
It looks as more and more Commercial Casters are also coming on board.
This coating is not a FAD, it's the real deal.
So take your choice, COAT YOUR OWN,
OR just PURCHASE SOME COMMERCIALLY COATED PROJECTILES.

This is THE GOOD STUFF!

Chunky Monkey

01-03-2015, 02:42 PM

Swamprat,

Any idea on when you will be taking orders for sizing lube?

Chunky Monkey

01-03-2015, 06:35 PM

Been busy casting and coating, I figure I have about 6,000 boolits I need to size.

HI-TEK

01-03-2015, 06:51 PM

Been busy casting and coating, I figure I have about 6,000 boolits I need to size.

From what I know, Bayou should have product available. Have you contacted Donnie or placed an order as yet?
I is possible, that he may have been waiting for product labels for small packs.
You wont need much at all to dry lube 6000.
Would appreciate your comments after you use it.
Thanks much

Chunky Monkey

01-03-2015, 07:37 PM

Yes I contacted Donnie but with the holidays he hadn't been able to get it ready to ship. Just thought ask him via this forum. I will call him again about it next week.

I will update with my results once I get it.

zomby woof

01-03-2015, 08:20 PM

Mix about 20 grams powder into about 100mls Acetone. mix in well and if possible leave for an hour or so, mix occasionally in well sealed bottle.
Then, use about 6-7 mls of mixture onto 250 or so boolits, coat quickly, and whilst wet, dump onto wire drying mesh. Let dry well.
Then, bake at 200C for about 10 minutes.
If you are obtaining coating from Bayou or Gateway, they can supply you with detailed instructions of do and don't advice.

Leave for an hour?? This is the first I've herd of this???

HI-TEK

01-03-2015, 08:31 PM

Leave for an hour?? This is the first I've herd of this???

I am not surprised you have not heard about the "leave an hour or so."
This was what I was advised to me by users, that some make up product, and what they do is, with intent, to ensure that all is mixed in and mixture is uniform. Some seem to leave it an hour after mixing, and occasionally give it a mix, and some leave it over night, and use mixture over weeks.
(I don't recommend it not being used for weeks)
It is not necessary to "age it", but it also shows, that product is stable and does no go off before use.
I suppose, every one uses/adopts their own method, that they are comfortable with.
The mixing and use/application is very flexible.
What ever one decides to do, and happy with it, simply keep doing it.
What else can I say.......

Ausglock

01-03-2015, 10:10 PM

HI-TEK

01-03-2015, 10:59 PM

With the liquid coatings, I mix and use straight away.
With the Powdered Coatings, I like to mix and leave it to "react" for an hour. You can actually feel the bottle get hot as the components are reacting.

You are correct in what you do.
The warming effect you get with powdered coatings when mixing with solvent, the dissolving/solubilising, produces a release of energy.
If there is any other "Reaction", it should be minimal, as mixture is usable for considerable time after powder is mixed into solvent.

Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings

01-04-2015, 12:22 PM

Swamprat,

Any idea on when you will be taking orders for sizing lube?

Shoot me a pm with your contact info. I should have it ready to go out mid week at the latest.

Chunky Monkey

01-04-2015, 12:45 PM

pm sent

gunoil

01-04-2015, 02:45 PM

I did some gold powder yesterday, l like staining with 3 coats. Turned out good/115gr/hardlineindustries.com

1st coat looks almost like nothing there, then bake 1st coat to a lite gold tint. Then second and third.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/6C9BC0BA-496E-4175-8201-3A9253465218_zpsivgpqqyt.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/6C9BC0BA-496E-4175-8201-3A9253465218_zpsivgpqqyt.jpg.html)

My youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UozyDZ-44Q4

Iam still learning.

HI-TEK

01-04-2015, 07:25 PM

gunoil

01-04-2015, 09:41 PM

I had seen some lead at ending inch of barrel. Looks good and iam still learning. Some were shiny and other batch was not. What did l do wrong? My lead is hard.

HI-TEK

01-05-2015, 12:04 AM

I had seen some lead at ending inch of barrel. Looks good and iam still learning. Some were shiny and other batch was not. What did l do wrong? My lead is hard.

Hi Gunoil,
Leading of last 1 inch of Barrel can be caused by several factors.

First things first.
The the shiny and not shiny ones size and smash OK?

Dull finishes, are usually indication of unevenly mixed and or applied brew, and coating mix contains higher levels of coloured ingredients leaving a less glossy surface.
Shiny finishes are mainly Resin with some (less) coloured materials and mainly resin..
This forms shiny coating.

Please try to provide a few more details with your process.

Ausglock

01-05-2015, 04:59 AM

Gunoil.. Increase your bake time by a minute or 2.
Shiny or dull. mine work fine.

Dusty1234

01-10-2015, 10:44 PM

HI-TEK

01-10-2015, 11:36 PM

I am sure this has been talked about somewhere in the 4000 or so replys. Here in middle TN it's been unseasonably cold, highs in the mid 30s and lows in the teens. My workshop is in a shed/garage with no heat. Can I use the htek coating or do I need to wait until the weather warms up?

Good question.
Many in US are facing similar cold conditions and coating difficulties.
In simple terms, when cold, things don't dry well at all.

Having said that, there is a possible answer or answers.
1. Move to a warmer location...lol lol. not practical
2.
Turn on your baking oven.
Pre-warm your cast alloy, (placed above oven on a mesh,) to about 25-30C and then quickly coat a quantity you can manage easily.
Place them back on top of your oven on a mesh to allow rising warmed air from oven, to dry the coating.
Dry well, before baking and do not over heat whilst drying. You will have to do trials as to how long to warm, and before coating is totally dry.
NOTES
Don't rush drying process, & don't use too much coating mixtures.
Don't coat with heavy coats, (especially with first coat), as it wont dry adequately, and even if they feel dry, they wont be, and after baking them, they will fail smash test.
3.
Coating will reduce temperature of warm alloy during coatings process, and, placing them on top of your oven, to allow the coated alloy back to about starting temperature before coating.
Chilling during coating process, will attract moisture, and it will be difficult to dry when it is so cold in work area, so work quickly during coating and place coated projectiles on mesh on top of oven as soon as possible.
BE VERY CAREFUL WITH DRYING & SOLVENT VAPOURS, THEY ARE VERY FLAMMABLE.

Hope this helps

Avenger442

01-11-2015, 09:43 PM

Well, hunting season is over for me for the year. Have seen more deer on the side of the road than in the field while hunting so no meat in the freezer.

One of the guys got this monster hunting at Xtreme Whitetail Adventures near my house. 34 points. I haven't been paying to hunt the Clubs so I got nada this year.
Going back to casting, coating, and testing loads. Was reading Dusty1234's comment about the temperatures here in the south US. Glad HI-TEK addressed. We have been down to 9 F a couple of times. Wind chill in the minus degree numbers. I coat in the basement which has some protection from the cold. But even there it can get in the 40s F. Will be pre heating alloy and drying over night to prevent failures.

Could of used some of that global warming out in the woods. Remembered that in the 1970s Scientist were telling us another ice age was coming as soon as 2025.

Dusty1234

01-11-2015, 09:58 PM

Lol global warming that makes me laugh!!! With it being so cold I am wondering what the optimal temperature is working with HTEK?

HI-TEK

01-11-2015, 10:12 PM

Lol global warming that makes me laugh!!! With it being so cold I am wondering what the optimal temperature is working with HTEK?

Our pollies now call it climate change, not global warming.
What I can understand is, that the earth had peculiar climatic changes occurring over thousands of years, and before man could have had any influences, but those areas are not discussed.
It seems to me at least, that when there is moneys to be had with research for many years, any one and every one that has an opinion then is allowed to postulate and be financed to carry on research for years and until retirement.
If no proof or evidence is unearthed, who is going to be held responsible after spending lots of moneys.

gunoil

01-11-2015, 11:06 PM

Cant read: can l stain/coat alum gas checks? Cant remember.

prs

01-11-2015, 11:10 PM

HI-TEK

01-12-2015, 12:42 AM

Climate change is a normal process with and without biological participation. Biological participation in climate change has been an important and very positive (for us) phenomenon. Free oxygen in our atmosphere is a prime example. Humans may play a role in such change, it is quite reasonable that we are supposed to break down the wastes of ages past and do exactly what we are doing. Were are mere scurvy germs in the total mix of things.

By the way, to keep this on track, I have been shooting some HiTek boolits recently. They work OK, but smell funny.

prs

Just cook them about 1-2 minutes more.
Should not get smell.
Undercooked will cause smell, as heat generated from powder burn, causes further "reaction" with not combined residue of components, which all should have been used up during cooking.
This heating from powder, then will drive off odours and result in a smell.
If baked a little longer, majority of odorous materials should be gone and used up.

HI-TEK

01-12-2015, 06:25 AM

Cant read: can l stain/coat alum gas checks? Cant remember.

I am bit that way at present.
Too much Christmas cheer. Now, just recovering......
The coating will coat onto Aluminium, but not well, as Aluminium is a reactive metal, and may affect bond.
It is a case of try a few and see what happens.
Just curious why you want to use a gas check?
What are you loading and shooting?
From previous blogs, many have found that they dont need gas checks, as coating and correct sizing should fix things.
From my limited understanding, gas checks are there to prevent rear and sides of Alloy being molten by heat from powder burn, (gas cutting).
As coating reflects heat well, and you have a tight fit inside barrel, a coated alloy without gas check should work.
A lot will depend on alloy hardness and speed you are wanting to achieve.
Again, it all comes down to engineering requirements for the specific application.

prs

01-12-2015, 10:11 AM

Just cook them about 1-2 minutes more.
Should not get smell.
Undercooked will cause smell, as heat generated from powder burn, causes further "reaction" with not combined residue of components, which all should have been used up during cooking.
This heating from powder, then will drive off odours and result in a smell.
If baked a little longer, majority of odorous materials should be gone and used up.

OH, I have a rather large store of these from Bayou Bullets, so I did not do the cooking. Is it safe to shoot them this way, exposure to cook-off odor wise? They perform well enough.

And, to be clear, there is NO odor with them at all until shot. It is during shooting that the odor is noticed; similar to hot brake shoes.

prs

gunoil

01-12-2015, 10:56 AM

Iam just trying em out hiteck, thats all. Retire'ee gave me some. He does from 9mm up. I shot some and liked em. Gonna shot some more.

hitek, iam glad u had christmas cheer, do not stop.

Avenger442

01-12-2015, 12:09 PM

HI-TEK

01-12-2015, 02:56 PM

Gunoil- I have used HiTek on aluminum gas checks 30 cal. with no problems. Recently switched to copper gas check and it looks better coated.

Joe- I believe gas checks also help in the pressure department as well as the heat. There has been a great deal of discussion on this. Someone could probably write a small book. They sure seem to help in the higher pressure rifle loads.

Avenger
You are correct with both areas, with pressure & heat advantages using gas checks.
Where now there is a difference is, that using hard alloy, and coating, with a tight fitting sized projectile, it seems that use of gas checks has become redundant to a certain extent.
I will try to put in my 5 cents worth here,
1, Coating has ability to reflect heat, so end of projectiles are not damaged with heat. Recovered rifle ammo, shows that coated projectile ends are intact, but darker from powder heat and deposits, and, most importantly, alloy is not heat damaged.
2. the rear of projectiles have same surface area to absorb energy produced by powder.
3. Using tight fitting and harder alloys, coated, seem to take pressures being generated with high energy powders, and accuracy is maintained and there is good sealing of barrel to obtain optimum pressure build up. (I am referring to non jacketed projectiles)

Many years ago, we had discussions with many folks about the coating being responsible, for may be, having to re-write some handbooks.
The problem is, that to gather all information using all the many possibility and variations with ammo manufacture, it is a huge task to write an book.
It would be great if we or someone else could do it.
They would sell millions of books.
Unfortunately, we don't have access to all manner of guns, and ammo to test and record data.
It is a huge ask, to then produce user friendly book.

Michael J. Spangler

01-12-2015, 10:22 PM

got to the range this week with some new bolts
NOE 453423 cats with a mix of 50/50 cows and pure with some added tin and antimony to make it a little nicer.
coated 3 thin coats with hi-tek and water dropped on the last coat.
loaded these in 45 auto rim cases.
loaded 5.5, 6, 6.5, and 7 grains of unique.
worked my way through some of each of the loads. seemed to be a little bit of leading at the 7 grain load, so i finished them up and worked my way back down. finishing with the left over 5.5 grains.
the bore was pretty clean after all of that. it seemed like the lighter loads almost helped to clean out the leading. once or two passes with a bore brush and it was shiny as can be. it seemed at that point like there really wasn't any leading to being with due to how quick it cleaned up.
oh and by the way the weather was nasty, the low was 5 degrees F with a 17 MPH wind.
that made ti easy to recover bullets, the whole berm was frozen solid except where i had just shot. you could track the holes with your finger and pull out bullets.

gunoil

01-13-2015, 01:12 AM

thanks A442;
my friend in houston is doing all. Iam trying with 9/380/45, but i need a new GC seat die. He uses hitek too, he sent me two sandwich bags of GC's. I enjoy and have fun, every lil' bit helps & my case base swaging on arbor too. I love mashin brass.

l shot some GC's other day, instant notification! The arbor makes (GC) it easy.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/B65A86DD-005F-4DC2-A9F0-D97BDB92E844_zpsnceybq86.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/B65A86DD-005F-4DC2-A9F0-D97BDB92E844_zpsnceybq86.jpg.html)

Dusty1234

01-14-2015, 10:31 PM

Does anyone have pics of the different color HTEk powder boolits. I want to color coat my bullets by caliber. And I need something to look at. I currently using black 1035.

Thanks for ya'll help

Dusty

gunoil

01-15-2015, 11:23 PM

Got these:

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zpsb347770d.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/null_zpsb347770d.jpg.html)

Dusty1234

01-16-2015, 12:06 AM

Gunoil, what red is that? And is that zombie green? Thanks for posting the pic!

gunoil

01-16-2015, 12:16 PM

ruby red and plain green, christmas colors! l like gold and black too.

Dusty1234

01-16-2015, 07:43 PM

Gunoil, thanks!! They look good!!

ioon44

01-21-2015, 10:59 AM

I have some questions on oven loading.
1. Should I bake 7lbs of 125gr boolits which would be 392 boolits the same as 7lbs of 200gr boolits which would be 245 boolits?
2. Should baking 2 trays of 7lbs, 14 lbs. total require more time? I have been baking the 2 trays for 11 min.
I use trays made out of 1/4" screen to get better air flow.

I am using a static built in oven with 4 tray slots and bake in the 2 middle slots. The temp using 3 oven thermometers will drop to 350deg when putting in 14 lb. of bullets and after 4min will recover to 400deg.
I know I need to add some bricks to the oven.
I am using liquid Black in 5-1-7 mix, and just started using Red Copper powder at 20g with 100ml mix.

Still getting some odder when shooting, but no leading.

popper

01-21-2015, 01:43 PM

The temp using 3 oven thermometers will drop to 350deg when putting in 14 lb. of bullets and after 4min will recover to 400deg Why? I do 3-400 130 gr. in a small toaster oven, I don't pre-heat. I open the door and AIR temp goes down 50F. It's the lead that needs to be up to temp which takes a while. The bricks won't help any.
Anyone have experience with any dry powder color that will work with 2 MOA accuracy @ 2000 fps? Got a 300BO to feed. The original dark green works great for pistol but failed for me @ 1400 fps.

Avenger442

01-21-2015, 07:46 PM

ioon44: "I have some questions on oven loading.
1. Should I bake 7lbs of 125gr boolits which would be 392 boolits the same as 7lbs of 200gr boolits which would be 245 boolits?
2. Should baking 2 trays of 7lbs, 14 lbs. total require more time? I have been baking the 2 trays for 11 min.
I use trays made out of 1/4" screen to get better air flow."

I remember some time back Hi-Tek Joe saying that the objective is to bring the lead surface to 180 C or 356 F for a period of time that makes the coating cure. Forgot the period of time. I think that it was somewhere in the 7-10 min. region. What I cook is about three pounds at a time because that is about what I can get in my single tray oven and still get the tray out easily. I've got a real cheap convection oven. I have tried to cook almost double that weight but had difficulty in getting the tray out. But didn't have any trouble with that coating. I very thin coat the first coat and cook it with an oven thermometer resting against the bullets. Temps vary between 350 and 400 F. I start timing at 390 F (oven thermometer) and cook for 12 minutes which makes my colors a little on the dark side.

Was at the range yesterday with the 308 rifle, 160 gr bullets, three coats of Hi-Tek, over 41gr H4895 (thanks to someone's suggestion now using slower powder), 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with the Remington 700 rifle (not exactly a target rifle). 40 rounds through the gun. Have not performed a close examination of the barrel yet but just the cursory view no leading. In fact barrel looked shiny. As said after my last test, I didn't clean it. So that would be a total of about 100 rounds through the gun with the barrel still clean. Love this stuff.

Ausglock

01-22-2015, 02:54 AM

HI-TEK

01-22-2015, 09:12 AM

Avenger,
My reply on this your below question
"I remember some time back Hi-Tek Joe saying that the objective is to bring the lead surface to 180 C or 356 F for a period of time that makes the coating cure."

The Coating has a property, where your oven load needs to get to about 180C, and, at that point, it cures in about 2-3 minutes.
What Ausglock has said is accurate.
What is needed to be kept in mind, that all of projectiles must become evenly heated, at the cure temperature required.
Thickly applied coatings, will reflect heat going into alloy, and cooking may require longer period, and especially if oven is not fan forced. Thinly applied coatings are best and will work better.
I have tried to encourage people, if possible, to try and get a fan forced oven system, where internally, there is a mini cyclone of hot air being circulated all around the coated alloy.
This is most efficient/quick way to transfer heat into the alloy.
If oven is over loaded, and air movement is reduced around alloy, you will get uneven cook and longer cook times, and, you will get some cooked well, and others not pass tests.
It is possible to buy an oven fan motor, that can be mounted externally, with shaft going through wall of oven, and fan mounted inside.
It is possibly cheapest and easiest way to make your own fan forced oven.
Looking forward to your findings.

popper

01-22-2015, 04:50 PM

Avenger - which color did you use, powder or liquid, alloy?

Avenger442

01-22-2015, 04:58 PM

Avenger - which color did you use, powder or liquid, alloy?

Liquid Gold 1035. I have some Black 1035 but have not tried it yet.

popper

01-22-2015, 05:04 PM

Thanks, I need to order some, black 1035. Just cast & sized 10# today, I'll need to cast a bunch more to HiTek.

Avenger442

01-22-2015, 05:09 PM

Sorry didn't completely answer you question.
Alloy was approximately 49% wheel weight, 49% lino, 2% tin. The wheel weight tin mix I had left from another casting session. I added the lino since I was going to add pressure above the prior loads I was testing.

klcarroll

01-24-2015, 03:43 PM

Up until now, I have been a "Lurker" on this thread. I couldn't, in good conscience, post with questions until I had read the entire thread: .....But once I had finished reading this online version of "War and Peace", I found that I no longer had any questions.

So......., I ordered some of the black powder style product from Bayou Bullets, and had at it. The following is a summary of my specific project:

Caliber: .300 AAC Blackout
Weapon: AR15 SBR
Boolit: Lee 230grn boat-tailed spitzer (TL 309-230-5R)
Load: 11.4 grains of 1680, CCI #41 primer
Average velocity: 1027 FPS

I went to the range this morning with my first batch of coated boolits. I ran through 300 rounds of this load as rapidly as the range rules allow. Once I was back at home, it took exactly two wet patches to clean the bore. No leading, no hard fouling of any kind!

I want to thank Hi-Tech Joe, Ausglock, and all the other regular contributors to this thread for their information and insights! This is truly a miracle product!

KLC

Avenger442

01-24-2015, 06:43 PM

Ausglock

01-24-2015, 09:12 PM

KLC. Mate no worries. That is what we are here for... to learn from each other.
Pleased to hear that you got great results.
It is a bloody long thread, but there are little gems of info spread throughout it :-)

gunoil

01-24-2015, 09:45 PM

I have a pig ingot from local newspaper, is it tin or lino or what?

its bout 2 1/2 feet long w/a hook hole at top.

ls lino just pure lead like in the x-ray room?

Beagle333

01-24-2015, 09:49 PM

It should be lino. Lino isn't like pure... it is very hard.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm
Scroll down about half a page and it tells you all about linotype.
(starts just below the chart)

HI-TEK

01-24-2015, 10:11 PM

It should be lino. Lino isn't like pure... it is very hard.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm
Scroll down about half a page and it tells you all about linotype.
(starts just below the chart)

Thank you for the data page. It is very good information contained in the various articles.
It will be very useful to many.
It clearly explains many areas well. It is definitely worth a look.

Beagle333

01-24-2015, 10:14 PM

If you ever lose it, you can find it again by looking in the Lead and Lead Alloy's section. It is a sticky there named The Definitive Answer page for Lead and Alloys! . Third one from the bottom of the stickies. (at time of this posting) :grin:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?57-Lead-and-lead-alloy-s

HI-TEK

01-24-2015, 10:22 PM

If you ever lose it, you can find it again by looking in the Lead and Lead Alloy's section. It is a sticky there. Third one from the bottom of the stickies. :grin:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?57-Lead-and-lead-alloy-s

Thanks much. Very useful site.
We have had discussions with local alloy maker, and some work was done, to determine optimum alloy mix to satisfy various engineering requirements, mainly for rifle use.
They were surprised at some results obtained with a simple smash test of various alloy mixtures, that were assumed to be OK, and they did not perform well.
We were looking at deformation properties of alloys with impact.

gunoil

01-24-2015, 10:26 PM

Iam trying to perfect:
1) l have long pig ingot (i can put into 1/2lb)
2) l have picked ww's
3) l have pure rolled up lead sheets from xray room.

Need a mix recipe, all of above in 1 lb ingots or 1/2 lb..

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/E0E7B379-E2B0-4CD6-80DD-69F6D4D8402E_zpsbx9quvys.png (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/E0E7B379-E2B0-4CD6-80DD-69F6D4D8402E_zpsbx9quvys.png.html)

Beagle333

01-24-2015, 10:50 PM

I suggest downloading Bumpo's lead calculator from the first post in the link below. You can modify the spreadsheet with 1/2 and 1# increments of the above mentioned alloys (there is a column for each one you have), until you get the desired hardness that you are looking for. Just change the numbers around until you are happy with the results. Then you will know exactly how much of each to add to a pot. (It gives the total weight and hardness of whichever mix you select, at the bottom of the chart.)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?105952-Lead-alloy-calculators

When it loads, it has some values already in there for pure tin, pure lead, and clip-on WW.... just put a zero in the box for tin, and change the numbers for linotype (your pig ingot), clip-on WW and pure lead, until you like the values at the bottom.

Ausglock

01-24-2015, 11:01 PM

Gunslick.
I'll give you $10 + $10 postage for you to send it to me.

klcarroll

01-24-2015, 11:36 PM

Hey KLCarrol, welcome to the thread.
Hi-Tek is something that works. Saved me from going the grease route when I started casting.
Couple of questions. What alloy are you using? Is that the Lee TL 309-230-5R Mold?

I'm just using the last of my clip-on wheel weight alloy for these boolits; ....And yes. it is the Lee TL 309-230-5R Mold.

I sure wish they made a six cavity version of that guy! I'm currently running two of the double cavity molds, but "more-per-minute" would really be nice.

I had my doubts about a cast boolit with a boat-tail configuration, ....but the previously mentioned load shoots far better than I do these days! (I have yet to find an upside to this "getting old" ****!!)

KLC

gunoil

01-24-2015, 11:42 PM

oh no ausglock, pig stays here. How bout that recipe mix that u would use with these three leads?

gunoil

01-24-2015, 11:45 PM

ioon44

01-25-2015, 10:39 AM

Popper. If I was you, I'd try one of the metallic coatings. EG: Texas Tea, red copper, Gold 1035.
ioon44. The alloy has to be at 185deg C for about 3 minutes for the coating to cure. Note: Alloy temp has to be 185Deg C. NOT the actual oven.
I run my ovens at 200Deg C and this allows 2Kg of bullet alloy to get to 185deg C and cure in 10 to 12 minutes overall time in the oven. Zero fails.

Ausglock thanks for the reply and info.
You said ovens, so is it better to use 2 or 3 convection ovens with a single tray or a larger convection oven with 2 or 3 trays?

Looks like the old static oven with a heavy boolit load was not working for me, but one has to start some where.

My last batch of 125gn boolits(12lbs) baked for 11 min for 3 coats of the Black Hi Tek and have worked best so far.
Time to go oven shopping as I don't want to give up on the Hi Tek coating.

Avenger442

01-25-2015, 03:14 PM

I'm just using the last of my clip-on wheel weight alloy for these boolits; ....And yes. it is the Lee TL 309-230-5R Mold.

I sure wish they made a six cavity version of that guy! I'm currently running two of the double cavity molds, but "more-per-minute" would really be nice.

I had my doubts about a cast boolit with a boat-tail configuration, ....but the previously mentioned load shoots far better than I do these days! (I have yet to find an upside to this "getting old" ****!!)

KLC

The reason I asked about the mold I was thinking of getting it to use in the 308 Winchester loads for my bolt action rifle. I like the shape of the bullet. If I can find load data from one of the Manufacturers I'll buy it. With that much weight it may be a problem.

Since my hunting is over for the year I've been casting and coating. I'm about to load my first Hi-Tek pistol loads in 45 auto. Hope to have them ready for a range trip next month. I have a new 45 that I haven't shot. May be dedicated Hi-Tek lead bullet gun.

gunoil

01-26-2015, 04:58 PM

This helped me alot from Ausglock:

Hi -Tech-Supercoat

1. add 2 bullets to your colour resin and shake for a good 5 minutes.
2. shake the catalyst.
3. empty bottle ready. Add 5 parts colour immediately...IMMEDIATELY... after shaking.
4. Add 7 parts Acetone and then the 1 part catalyst.
5. Put lid on the mixture and shake the schit out of it for 5 minutes. I use 250ml juice bottles with pop-tops on them. easy to add coating to the bullets.
6. Add about 200 bullets( about 2Kgs) to the plastic bucket. lid is NOT needed.
7. Shake the 5-1-7-mix and Immediately add a 1 second dribble to the bucket of bullets. Replace mixture lid Immediately.
8. Shake the bucket of bullets and coating. Remember... you have to have the bullets and coating mixing around just like a cement mixer does. The bottom of the bucket should be wet with coating.
9. Keep shaking, swirling until the rattle of the bullets changes to a dull thumping. you will hear the change really easy.
10. dump the coated bullets onto your drying tray and shake the tray side to side until the bullets have leveled out on the tray. don't worry about them touching. it doesn't matter.
11. If you think there isn't enough colour on the bullet, then you have the coating just right. Leave them alone for at least 10 minutes. then warm them with a hair dryer.
12. turn on your oven and pre-heat to 200deg C.
13. place you bullets on the baking tray and spread them around to be even on the tray and place tray in the oven.
14. set the oven timer for 12 minutes. not 6 or 8. But a full 12 minutes.
15. when the oven turns off, remove the tray of bullets and let them cool. do not touch them until cool.
16. when cool. take 1 bullet. lay it in it's side on a steel base and smash it with a hammer. the coating should not flake off.
17. Take another bullet and get some acetone on a white cloth and wipe the coated bullet for 30 seconds and see if the colour comes off. if it does. place back into oven and bake for another 5 minutes. ( I have found 12 minutes per bake is enough).
18. When the bullets are cool, place back in the bucket and repeat steps 6 to 17.
19. when 2nd coat has cooled and has tested OK, Size and shoot.

kweidner

01-26-2015, 06:09 PM

I have messed with a few colors myself. . I keep going back to the gold 1035 for high pressure or faster stuff. I like the brick red color a bunch but it requires a bit higher temp and a bit more cure time. Still works fine. All my production bullets are gold 1035 my personal are black and red. I keep different rifles loads separated by color of boolit for personal stuff too. Subsonic for blackout are well....... black and the supersonic stuff gold. I like the options.

Sticky

01-26-2015, 06:15 PM

The reason I asked about the mold I was thinking of getting it to use in the 308 Winchester loads for my bolt action rifle. I like the shape of the bullet. If I can find load data from one of the Manufacturers I'll buy it. With that much weight it may be a problem.

Since my hunting is over for the year I've been casting and coating. I'm about to load my first Hi-Tek pistol loads in 45 auto. Hope to have them ready for a range trip next month. I have a new 45 that I haven't shot. May be dedicated Hi-Tek lead bullet gun.

I have just started casting and that was the first mold I broke out.. I plan primarily to use them in a 300AAC, but... I have a couple 308 AR's that are beggin to try em too, so I probably will play with that this spring.

New to casting and all of the associated processes, but in my research here and elsewhere, I found that many like the Hi-Tek coatings, so... decided to give that and some asbb tumble pc a try. I am very impressed with the HT coatings, took me a few tries to iron out a process, had to change it up a bit for my first run of 452200 HP's from yesterday, but all in all, I am extremely pleased with the results of the dry powder that I got from Bayou Bullets!

Some 309230's

128608

and some 45acp projectiles... man.. ain't they purty? :)

128609

Thanks to all here that contribute so much. Sure makes it a lot easier to tap on all this experience when just starting out! :happy dance:

HI-TEK

01-27-2015, 07:59 PM

I have just started casting and that was the first mold I broke out.. I plan primarily to use them in a 300AAC, but... I have a couple 308 AR's that are beggin to try em too, so I probably will play with that this spring.

New to casting and all of the associated processes, but in my research here and elsewhere, I found that many like the Hi-Tek coatings, so... decided to give that and some asbb tumble pc a try. I am very impressed with the HT coatings, took me a few tries to iron out a process, had to change it up a bit for my first run of 452200 HP's from yesterday, but all in all, I am extremely pleased with the results of the dry powder that I got from Bayou Bullets!

Some 309230's

128608

and some 45acp projectiles... man.. ain't they purty? :)

128609

Thanks to all here that contribute so much. Sure makes it a lot easier to tap on all this experience when just starting out! :happy dance:

Well done. They look great.
Most happy to assist with any questions.

Gateway Bullets

01-27-2015, 08:59 PM

Well guys, my new toy arrived today, and I will be using it to test bullets coated in red copper under extreme conditions. I will post results as soon as I can. This will show the "non-believers" the coating really works and that you can run lead cast through a Glock 18c

Besides......it's just plain old FUN!!!!!

128740

gunoil

01-27-2015, 11:10 PM

i done done that for long time on three glocks. Swat team glocksmith here trained in atlanta @ glock factory said with even lead lubed bullets just shoot 150, and then clean. Not even with hitech. Hitech-supercoat = even better.

ioon44

01-30-2015, 07:57 PM

HI-TEK

01-30-2015, 09:52 PM

I scored a used convection oven that seems to work fine.

Would I be wasting my time to re bake some of the boolits I didn't get right the first time?

Do most guys use one tray per bake?

I also feed three Glocks cast boolits just keep them clean.

Just a quick reply to your question about re-baking matters.
If your first coat does not pass tests, (smash & solvent test) do not coat a second time, as you will not fix faulty first coat.
Once the heat sets first coat, and you get no bonding, (by failing smash test after bake), it is quite a possibility, that either you did not dry coating adequately or applied too much coating, (or both) before you baked.
Before you coat a second time, the first coat must be bonded to pass smash test and not flake off.
Just a quick hint, to save you work and materials, simply test only a couple of your dried projectiles and bake them first.
After baking, if they pass smash test,and solvent test, then go ahead and bake the rest, as the rest should also bake OK.
Please allow room for good air circulation around tray of bullets, and do not overload oven, as this will interfere with bake time and will not provide even baking across tray. If you over load tray or do not get even heating to all projectiles, some will be cooked well and others will fail.
Unfortunately, if you have coated and baked and get failures, it is a re-melt job.
Hope this helps

Avenger442

01-31-2015, 12:51 AM

I scored a used convection oven that seems to work fine.

Would I be wasting my time to re bake some of the boolits I didn't get right the first time?

Do most guys use one tray per bake?

I also feed three Glocks cast boolits just keep them clean.

I use a yard sale convection oven with a brick in the bottom and bake only one tray. Disagree with some on this thread that the brick doesn't help. If you use something like the brick in the oven make sure it is dry by baking it with no coating in the oven. I created a steam bath in mine the first time I used the brick. Keep an oven thermometer in the tray with the lead and watch it while cooking. Most if not all of the convection ovens below the $250-$300 mark have large swings in the temperature. Was able to test a $150 Hamilton Beach and it had a 50 degree F temperature swing from the set point. I contacted them and they indicated that it was normal in some of their ovens.

Yes it is wasting your time to re-bake if it fails the smash test. Melt them down and start over. I had about seven lbs of bullets I had to remelt back a few months ago. I think I didn't let the first coat dry long enough. Now I dry overnight, especially on the first coat, and have started using a thinner mix with ten parts acetone instead of the seven I was using. It helps me coat thin.

Once you get the process down your going to love this stuff especially if you shoot pistols. I shoot a rifle most of the time and have put about 160 rounds of .308 and about 100 rounds of .44 magnum through my rifles with no problems with the barrels. In fact, just cleaned the .308 after 100 rounds of Hi-Tek and had NO leading and nothing but a little burnt powder in the barrel.

Ausglock

01-31-2015, 01:32 AM

yep. One tray at a time. about 2 Kg of bullets (doesn't matter what size or weight, just 2Kg total).
re-bake is a waste of time.
re-melt.

HI-TEK

01-31-2015, 02:33 AM

Avenger,
Your findings with ovens is very typical.
Unfortunately, the thermostats used in some ovens are fairly poor quality, and also the sensor, may not be placed in an area where you are measuring true temperatures, which represents oven temperature.
This has been discussed on this blog many times.
One suggestion to get a more even heating is to mount externally a motor, and shaft go through wall of oven to an internal fan.
So air circulation is much better inside oven, and it also evens out heat spread, and heat transfer into coated alloys.
Heat recovery also seems faster as sensor of thermostat is in contact with moving air, even if poorly located inside oven.
Fan may not fix all problems, but will go a long way towards that goal.

HI-TEK

01-31-2015, 02:48 AM

Avenger,
I thought that this may be of Interest.
It is Ebay where they sell PID controllers, fairly cheap.
I have attached one link to a product that seems to work from 100V to 220Volts
It would be useful to ask sellers, about suitability for individual voltage supply.
Below is link.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-PID-Temperature-Controller-D1S-VR-220-K-Sensor-25A-SSR-/231464453216?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item35e45b4460

Love Life

01-31-2015, 11:10 AM

ioon44

01-31-2015, 11:33 AM

HI-TEK, Ausglock & Avenger442
Thanks for the reply's

The oven I bought is a Jenn-air w2450 convection wall oven got it for $75.00, and the first test the dial setting matches the two oven thermometers setting in the tray. The convection seems to keep the temp more constant.

I will re melt my failed boolits and start over with one tray per bake, the trays I made are 1/4" mesh not solid sheets.
Will mesh trays make any difference on the bake time with 2kg of boolits?

Using the Red Copper powder would a first coat of 100ml to 15grams help?

In the colder weather here I let the coats dry 24hr before baking.

I just do pistol boolits for IDPA shooters but would like to get into rifle boolits for 3 Gun.

Avenger442

01-31-2015, 12:18 PM

Thanks Joe. Have looked at using a PID but have been having success with the liquid Gold 1035 and haven't bought one yet. But you know I'll need one in Fahrenheit can't read Celsius and have to translate. LOL :kidding:

ioon44
Sounds like you scored a good oven. Back when mine was new, it was about $50 at Wally World. I bought it slightly used for $5.
Yes mesh trays help in evenly heating bullets.
Have not used my Black 1035 powder yet so can"t answer on powder mix. If you have the instructions follow them. If I understand the process correctly, adding a bit more acetone does't hurt the process. Just need to make sure it is completely dry before baking.

Moonman

01-31-2015, 01:10 PM

Avenger442,

On BLACK 1035 POWDER I use 20 GRAMS of powder and 100 ml of Acetone.
I use wire trays and ALWAYS dry overnight to make sure they're dry.
I use a BREVILLE "SMART CONVECTION OVEN", presently set at 410 F (it's winter)
and colder ambient temp in the garage.
I bake the POWDER BLACK 1035 HI-TEK for about 12-13 minutes.

thespice

02-01-2015, 08:32 AM

finally got some powder copper coat and coated some.... the no lube groove heads coat way better than ones with lube grooves..

ioon44

02-02-2015, 12:25 PM

Question on plastic bucket.

Ausglock In your instructions you say
"6. Add about 200 bullets( about 2Kgs) to the plastic bucket. lid is NOT needed.
7. Shake the 5-1-7-mix and Immediately add a 1 second dribble to the bucket of bullets. Replace mixture lid Immediately.
8. Shake the bucket of bullets and coating. Remember... you have to have the bullets and coating mixing around just like a cement mixer does. The bottom of the bucket should be wet with coating.
9. Keep shaking, swirling until the rattle of the bullets changes to a dull thumping. you will hear the change really easy."

What size bucket do you use and why no lid?

I am using a butter tub which is about 5" in da and 6" tall with a lid so I can shake, swirl and tumble, this does build up pressure so try leave it loose in one spot or I guess I could put a vent hole in the center of the lid. When I pour the boolits on to the mesh the inside of the tub is wet but no puddles. This method gives me good even coverage of the coating after about 10 to 15 seconds.

Should the coating be cleaned out of the tub before the next 2kg of boolits are coated?
Should I be using a larger size bucket?

Moonman

02-02-2015, 01:44 PM

ioon44,

I use a COOL WHIP container (WHIPPED TOPPINGS).
Container really does not have to be cleaned, but I do sometimes.
Top is just a safety for spilling, you could vent as it does build pressure.
Ausglock uses a TIMED DRIBBLE because he can, he has done thousands of batches.

I just SWIRL them around in container for a bit.
BEST if your first coat IS A LIGHT ONE.
Coatings must BE DRY BEFORE BAKING, and that's DRIER MORE THAN just to the touch.
You can pore out on drying trays while still wet.
I use trays made from HARDWARE CLOTH 1/8" and
SMALL HOLE PERFORATED METAL, such as PROTECTOR PANEL
FOR A SCREEN DOOR (Lowe's or Home Depot).
Let's the heat come up through while baking.
A convection toaster oven LOADED WITH ONLY 1 TRAY AT A TIME WORKS BEST.

I use MEASURING SPOONS to measure out the HI-TEK solution.
My batches ARE 3 POUNDS OF PROJECTILES.
I use 3.7 ml of solution measured with measuring spoons,
1/2 Teaspoon = 2.5 ml and 1/4 tsp = 1.2 ml.

I coat and bake TWICE. Coatings MUST PASS Wipe and Smash test before continuing.
Coating DOES NOT have to coat LUBE GROOVES if your projectiles have them.
Commercial Casters completely coat merely for EYE APPEAL to their customers.

I have used the liquid HI-TEK in 5/1/7 ratio but now have switched to the
HI-TEK "DRY MIX" formula which I like much better and it's easier to mix up.
I use 20 "GRAMS" OF POWDER WEIGHED ON A POWDER SCALE,
and mixed with 100 ml of Acetone from a syringe mixed in a SMALL "COKE" bottle.

Try to only mix up enough solution to use up in several days.
Cast up way ahead of coating so you have projectiles cast up
to use up the solution.

CONCERNING DRYING TIME, I usually DRY OVERNIGHT, just to be sure.

Love Life

02-02-2015, 04:46 PM

For Dry-Tek I mix 1 TBS powder to 6 TBS acetone. Woks fine even if there is a bit of color transfer during the swipe test.

HI-TEK

02-02-2015, 04:59 PM

For Dry-Tek I mix 1 TBS powder to 6 TBS acetone. Woks fine even if there is a bit of color transfer during the swipe test.

Love Life, it is much better if you dont have any colour transfer at all.
Solvent test is done, so that subsequent coating does not "activate or dissolve" and possibly start to strip off previous coat.
If you have colour transfer when testing, the coating may have not set completely during bake.
Generally, leaving batch in oven a minute or so longer should complete cure so there is no colour transfer.

Love Life

02-02-2015, 05:01 PM

I baked them for a looooooooong time. Still got minimal transfer with a vigorous acetone/paper towel scrub.

HI-TEK

02-02-2015, 05:19 PM

Which colour gave such results?
I have had a strange once off report of our Red colour, not passing wipe test, but next day, leaving it over night at room temperature, coating test was fine, and no colour transfer.
With same batch of coating, when making more product a week or so later, the coating worked OK first time after bake, without overnight aging.
This user did not have this re-occur again afterwards.
Most strange.
Paper Towel, may be a suspicion. Some are made with fine abrasive powders incorporated to get better cleaning & polishing. Paper can be an abrasive on its own. All I can suggest is, that may be, you actually "polished" off some coating with your vigorous rubbing with solvent. I really dont know and is a guess.
If finished coating worked OK, then no problem.

Love Life

02-02-2015, 05:22 PM

It's the red. The fail of the wipe is why I increased bake times. As you pointed out, after a day of aging, they passed the wipe test just fine.

HI-TEK

02-02-2015, 05:32 PM

It's the red. The fail of the wipe is why I increased bake times. As you pointed out, after a day of aging, they passed the wipe test just fine.

Just for an experiment, just add a little more catalyst to mixture. (it will not hurt mixture)
One of my original suspicions was, that the Red components were slowing down cross linking during bake. Try adding a little more catalyst, hopefully should fix this.
With Catalyst, on our label, we do suggest usage rates can be between 180-220 mls per litre of coating.

zomby woof

02-02-2015, 06:52 PM

I use the Folgers plastic container. I use 5 pounds of boolits to 1 1/2 tablespoons of mixture.

129337

HI-TEK

02-02-2015, 06:56 PM

I use the Folgers plastic container. I use 5 pounds of boolits to 1 1/2 tablespoons of mixture.

129337

Fancy container....even with a grip handle, Ideal.... Hope you used all the Coffee first...lol...lol

kweidner

02-02-2015, 07:42 PM

I have found reds at 400f and 16 minutes to be the sweet spot for me. gold 1035 175F and 11. this is in SE Georgia. Red seems to like it a bit hotter and longer than the others I have used.

Love Life

02-02-2015, 07:55 PM

Just for an experiment, just add a little more catalyst to mixture. (it will not hurt mixture)
One of my original suspicions was, that the Red components were slowing down cross linking during bake. Try adding a little more catalyst, hopefully should fix this.
With Catalyst, on our label, we do suggest usage rates can be between 180-220 mls per litre of coating.

I can't. It was/is the powder HI-TEK.

HI-TEK

02-02-2015, 08:02 PM

I can't. It was/is the powder HI-TEK.

Love Life,
No worries at all,
once powder is mixed into solvent, you can add a little liquid catalyst. It wont cause problems.
If you use 20 grams to 100 mls Acetone, you can add about 1 ml of any of the catalysts, mix well, then coat some.
Excess catalyst not used up simply gasses off during bake and should not affect finish.
This should help with cure during bake.
Would be interested in your findings. Please post results if you do any experimenting.

Love Life

02-02-2015, 08:18 PM

I'm good and will just leave it as is. It has withstood full snort 10mm, 357 mag, 9mm, and others without issue.

HI-TEK

02-02-2015, 08:23 PM

I'm good and will just leave it as is. It has withstood full snort 10mm, 357 mag, 9mm, and others without issue.

Great news, and am happy that it works as required.
Users need to be aware, that Powders and liquids are made with similar technology of ingredients, and should behave same way.
Powders, simply avoid distribution problems associated with liquid coatings, and should work out better with costs as well.
Thanks for your input Love Life. Much appreciated

andre3k

02-02-2015, 09:03 PM

strongbow67

02-02-2015, 09:56 PM

What is the shelf life of the unmixed powder?

HI-TEK

02-02-2015, 10:41 PM

How are the commercial casters coating and baking large amounts of bullets? I'm assuming coating in a poly drum cement mixer and baking in commercial ovens? I'm to looking to do batches of several thousand at a time.

Usual coating in volume is done with a household type Cement mixer, into which there is a plastic garbage bin inserted. A bin for each colour, that way no cleaning needed.
They coat about 1000 every 20-30 seconds.
Simply, they pour in about 1000 plus or minus, and add 20-30 mls coating mixture.
Tumble until just barely coated, and sound starts changing from sharp to dull, very noticeable, then dump into wire mesh trays for drying.
After thorough drying, bake on conveyor on continuous flow through system.
Many simply coat 50 to 100 thousand, and leave it over night to dry if cool conditions, and fan force dry if warmer weather is available and bake same day.
In cold conditions, simply pre-warm projectiles to about 25-30C and quickly coat. Residue heat in alloy will dry coating quickly.

HI-TEK

02-02-2015, 10:52 PM

What is the shelf life of the unmixed powder?

It is a question of how long is a piece of string without a tape measure.
If kept out of sunlight, and heat, and sealed well after using from bulk,re seal packaging, it should last 12 months.
After 12 months, simply check that it is working well with small batches first, before coating many thousands, then to find out that there is a problem.
Things to note is, that the products are new to the marketplace.
Long terms stability is not yet available as product has been available a few months.

Ausglock

02-03-2015, 03:27 AM

I coat in a 1 gallon plastic pail with no lid.
Do not clean the pail at all.
Looking at a cement mixer with a 20 litre plastic pail jammed into the drum opening of the mixer.

HI-TEK

02-03-2015, 06:43 AM

I coat in a 1 gallon plastic pail with no lid.
Do not clean the pail at all.
Looking at a cement mixer with a 20 litre plastic pail jammed into the drum opening of the mixer.

You may find, that a 50 litre ribbed plastic garbage bin will work better. The taper fits almost exactly into fins inside cement mixer, and jams in firmly.
The ribs, turn over the projectiles better than smooth walled container.
It takes a thousand per load, which coats well in about 20-30 seconds.

Sticky

02-03-2015, 07:58 PM

HI-TEK

02-03-2015, 09:21 PM

A question on sizing of boolits that have been coated with Hi-Tek. I am using the dry powder and mixing and coating with good results. I have also played a bit with DT ASBB powder coating and this brings up my question..

What, if anything, do you do for lubing when resizing after coating? I ask because I notice a little more difficulty when using a Lee push thru sizer for the HT coated vs the PCs.. the PCs are easier to size, do you/should I use any lube when sizing with HT coated projectiles?

I don't really have any issues with sizing the unlubed HT boolits, just an observation after sizing some 452200's that I coated both ways recently and sized.

You have a good question, and raised several important areas.
I will try and to offer some answers to various areas.

1. Sizing matters and ease of sizing
Projectiles, lubricated, coated, plated or jacketed, must provide sealing in barrel, also, must provide adequate sliding resistance to build up pressure adequate to maximise power build up by powder, to obtain maximum velocity and maintain accuracy.
It is not necessarily an advantage, to have a very slippery surface on cast alloy being used.
Having a more slippery coating, lube or other, in fact will cause loss of accuracy and velocity.
2. Lubrication
As far as man has used guns, there has been always a need to "lubricate" the Lead.
Rationale used was not to increase speed, but in reality, end result that was desired, was to stop Lead fouling in Barrel, and with trying to reduce and stop build up of residues sticking inside Barrel. Lubes per say, despite some beliefs, do not increase speed of projectiles.
If you use the perfect most slippery lube, and overcome all friction between alloy and Barrel, would be counter productive.
Facts are, that projectiles do need some slip, but also resistance to slide, to produce ideal situation. These parameters, plus also, to provide adequate metal separation between alloy and Barrel, to stop Lead deposits, provide sealing, and not leave residues that will build up requiring constant cleaning of gun.
3. Comparison between powder coated and Hi-Tek coatings, is an interesting area.
a. Powder coating and Hi-Tek, the only real comparison is, that they are both heat cured to set coating.
Difference is Hi-Tek actually hardens with heat, and most powder coatings will soften with heat.
Hi-Tek is very hard polymer after cure, and, with most Powder coatings, they are much softer after cure.
b. Sizing ease differences may be directly associated with both coating thickness, cured hardness, self lubrication and alloy hardness.
Hi-Tek coating, do have self lubricity, but are designed to maximise resistance to sliding, to allow maximum pressure build up to maintain accuracy and leave no deposits using thinnest possible coating.
Using Hi-Tek as thick coating is also counter productive for ease of sizing.
To improve ease of sizing, especially with harder alloys, a sizing lube will assist, as long as the lube used does not detract from engineering results/properties required.
The only way to compare two coating products, is to make, load and shoot them, to determine how they perform. Projectile speeds also must be measured.
c. Performance with shooting, will depend on coating ability to stay put on alloy, be adequate to keep alloy from contacting barrel, provide some slip, but also offer adequate resistance to allow correct power build up, reflect heat away from alloy, not damage bore of barrel, and do not leave deposits or build up of coating/lube or Lead inside barrel.
User needs to also have a look at what happens, when barrel gets hot when using/comparing products.

The Hi-Tek may not be 100% in all parameters, but goes a long way towards that goal.

Coating comparisons.
Using Powder coatings, it is most difficult to ensure that alloy has even thickness of deposit on surfaces. That has been found by many, who then tried to "solubilise" commercial Powder coatings to achieve even coat applications.
Having found a suitable solvent to "dissolve" commercial Powder coatings, did not really solve the irregular application thicknesses and in fact produced a rougher finish.
What may not be known is, that commercial Powdered coatings, contain fairly coarse particles, and to properly disperse those particles is not easy. The solubilised commercial powder coatings is difficult to be applied as thin coatings that will provide desired end results.

The Hi-Tek powders, are the same ingredients as used in the solvent based systems, but without the solvents.
It was produced to allow low cost with transport, end use, and be not categorised as dangerous goods and produce same results as liquid coatings, after user mixes/prepares his own coating liquid with the Hi-Tek powders.

Apology for long reply, and, hopefully I have assisted with some areas.

Sticky

02-03-2015, 09:49 PM

Thanks Hi-Tek, I appreciate all the insight! I am coating to prevent leading in the barrel, that is truly the ultimate goal and have been playing with both PC and HT coatings. I do notice a much thinner, more consistent coat weight with the HT coating. My cured coat weights are on the order of .001" and very consistent over the surfaces of the different boolits that I have cast and coated. The PC coatings are much more 'inconsistent' and heavier (some of my learning curve playing in there too) in thickness, on the order of .002-.003, but not evenly coated as the HT does. I do see the critical areas pretty well coated, so that is a plus, even after sizing.

I have not yet shot any of these coated tests, as I am still learning/perfecting my techniques and it has been just too damned cold and windy of late here in my part of the world to do some load testing and evaluate both properly for leading, but I hope to change that soon, as hunting season is now winding down and I need to shoot some of these beautiful boolits that I am learning to create!

I now understand a little more of the chemistry of the two, thanks to your explanation and can see why there are some differences in the force required to size a given batch of boolits between the two coatings. I am hoping to not have to lube, but I have also experimented with some tumble lube, so that is something that I will evaluate as I progress on my journey to produce accurate, non-fouling loads for my various weapons.

Thank you again for your insights!

leadman

02-06-2015, 02:57 AM

For those interested in making their own PID from E-Bay parts there are several things to know. I have build 4 so far and have parts to build 2 more.
The PID unit itself needs to be compatable with the solid state relay used. The markings on the side of the unit should state SSR in one of the lines. The SSR is the type of relay shown in Hi-Tek's photo. I have used both the 40 amp and 25 amp. In my experience I do not recommend the 25 amp as every one I had failed. Look at the type of thermocouple as you will probably want the type with the long probe. This is what I use in my ovens.
A box of some type is good but if you can build one that is fine also. Make sure it is large enough to contain the pid, SSR, fuse holder and switch.
As far as the electrical cord to supply power to the unit and out to your oven I buy a 10' extension cord and cut it. On 1 unit I used a 25' cord so I would not have to hunt down and extension cord to reach the plug.
I used my $20 Walmart DVOM with thermocouple to find a spot in the oven that gave me a good temperature reading then drilled a hole in the case to insert the thermocouple from the pid into.
If you buy a small board to hook your thermocouple to then you can buy the type with the button on the end to place on your luber/sizer heater. I used a 1/4" T-nut and rethreaded it to 6mm and brazed it to the bottom of my RCBS pot, drilled a hole in the case and screwed the T-couple to the T-nut. No probe in the alloy this way making fluxing harder.

I removed the thermostat from 2 of my ovens and run them just off the pid units. temperature varies at most 4 degrees.

Also the cheap pid unit read in celcuis only but a conversion chart is easily found by Googling it.

A pid does make it much easier to adjust the oven to the right temperature to get good results. Also boolit weight is much more consistent when the lead pot is controlled to within a few degrees. The heater for my luber/sizer with the pid hooked up is much more controlable and has eleminated the lube under the boolit when sizing. Doesn't get used much anymore though.

kryogen

02-06-2015, 11:43 PM

HI-TEK

02-07-2015, 12:48 AM

hey I finally got time to cast and coat 250 or so boolits with the red copper powder hitek.

I cant really remember the instructions. is it 100ml acetone to 20 grams powder? I am doing a rather small batch of 250 230RN boolits. So I mixed 25ml to 5 grams. Good?
I used approx half (10ml) to coat 250 230RN boolits. Is that too much?

I now did lay those on a tray, and will cure first coat tomorrow.
200 celcius for 10 minutes? starting when the oven gets back to 200? Or when I put them in?

2 or 3 coats?

Thanks
If all goes well, I should try those monday.

kryogen
Ratio is Ok but you can add more Acetone say another 3-5 mls.
It wont hurt at all.
Use about 7-8 mls mixture to 250, after mixing mixture well.
Turn oven and allow it to get to 200C first, then, place into oven, the well dried coated projectiles.
You may try just a few first, and cook for 10-11 minutes. then, see how they turn out after cooling, and smash test and solvent test.
If all goes well, do the rest same way.
After bake and cooling, if they pass smash & solvent test, coat a second time and use similar volumes of well mixed mixture.
DONT RUSH DRYING, AND DONT USE THICK COATS, AS IT IS COUNTER PRODUCTIVE AND YOU WILL GET FAILURES.

Recluse

02-07-2015, 02:18 AM

DONT RUSH DRYING, AND DONT USE THICK COATS, AS IT IS COUNTER PRODUCTIVE AND YOU WILL GET FAILURES.

My first run was with the Black 1035 powder and I used a 5:1 ratio of acetone to powder and then used too much overall in the first tumble coating run.

Finally settled on a 6:1 ratio of acetone to powder, making small batches of PC mix to begin with and being somewhat frugal with the concoction when tumbling.

I ended up doing four runs on three different types of boolits using two different powders (Red Copper and Black 1035). I applied three light coats, letting the first coat bake at 375F for 17 minutes, then the final two coats baking for 12 minutes with the last baking coming straight from the oven and into a water bath. I then sized the boolits through a push-through sizer and loaded them and randomly checked sizing with a micrometer. No problems whatsoever.

Now I just need to shoot them and see how they ultimately work.

:coffee:

Love Life

02-07-2015, 08:28 AM

I believe you will enjoy it very much, Recluse. I've been using HI-Tek for awhile (Liquid and powder), and it as changed my life. I get 30% more phone numbers from hot ladies who also give me gas money.

kryogen

02-07-2015, 11:05 AM

can I bake the 250 at a time?
When does the 10 min start? when the coating starts to melt or when I put them in or what?

Avenger442

02-07-2015, 11:20 AM

can I bake the 250 at a time?
When does the 10 min start? when the coating starts to melt or when I put them in or what?

Try using weight to determine number to cook. I do about 3 pounds per batch. I have done as much as seven pounds. They shot OK but color was inconsistent.
On time, I start my time when my oven thermometer in the tray of bullets reaches the correct temp 200C.

klcarroll

02-07-2015, 11:26 AM

.............. I've been using HI-Tek for awhile (Liquid and powder), and it as changed my life. I get 30% more phone numbers from hot ladies who also give me gas money.

I wish you wouldn't post things like that!

......I had just convinced my wife that this whole "baking bullets thing" was a GOOD idea!!!!

Now she's checking my reloading log for phone numbers.

kryogen

02-07-2015, 11:31 AM

ok great I'll start with just a few to test, and then if it works ill cook a few pounds at a time.

kryogen

02-07-2015, 10:54 PM

first coat I used approx 1ml per pound, worked nice, maybe just hair too thick, some minor clumping.
Passed acetone test (nothing) and smash test (no flaking at all).

I did another coat tonight, 1ml per pound. will cook tomorrow.

Are 2 coats of brown copper enough or do I need 3? 45 acp.

Ausglock

02-08-2015, 02:44 AM

Mozz

02-08-2015, 06:18 AM

klcarroll

02-08-2015, 09:04 AM

Hi Guys

Drying off the newly coated bullets seems to be a very important and I am thinking of making some sort of drying box? - its a bit cold and damp in the UK at the moment.

What its the best temp to dry newly coated bullets out?

Regards

Dave

Dave

I have the same issue here in the Chicago area, and I have found a solution that seems to be working well for me.

I bought a used food dehydrator at a second hand shop for ten bucks. This all-plastic unit consists of a base fitted with a low output heating element, six stackable tray sections and a vented lid.

I simply load up as many trays as I need for the batch of bullets, stack them up on the base, put on the lid, and plug it in.

After an overnight run in the dehydrator, those bullets are DRY!

ioon44

02-08-2015, 11:13 AM

I have the same issue here in the Chicago area, and I have found a solution that seems to be working well for me.

I bought a used food dehydrator at a second hand shop for ten bucks. This all-plastic unit consists of a base fitted with a low output heating element, six stackable tray sections and a vented lid.

I simply load up as many trays as I need for the batch of bullets, stack them up on the base, put on the lid, and plug it in.

After an overnight run in the dehydrator, those bullets are DRY!

What a great idea. What is the temperature range for the dryer?

I wait 24hr to bake, but it would be nice to speed things up.

kryogen

02-08-2015, 11:19 AM

2 coats is fine for everything from 380 up to 50 cal handgun.
Rifle seems to like 3 coats.

Try 5mls per 2 Kg of alloy.
bake 2kg of alloy at 200Deg C for 10 to 12 minutes.
Pre warm oven to 200Deg C, THEN place the tray of bullets in AND START TIMING FROM THEN.

Ok will try. What I have been doing is preheating with a large 1/2 inch metal plate in the oven to accumulate heat and stabilize temps, then reach 200, then add the tray, then wait until temp is back to 200 (1 minute or so), and then start the 10 minutes. Seems to work #1. Modified convection oven with frozone PID. Fan is always on, and 4 elements wired to the PID, thermocouple at the back of the oven.

It works SO MUCH BETTER with the large metal plate in there. I might also add 2-3 ingots of lead(another 18 pounds).
Temps only vary by 1-2 celcius during the baking, and drop approx only 15-20 degrees when I add the cold tray of boolits. (3-4 pounds) (just with the metal plate).

Before that I would get erratic temp shifts and the PID wasnt able to keep it all stable enough. Not even talking about the regular oven thermostat that is totally unable to keep a constant temp, plus totally off by 50-100 degreesF.

If I eventually like it enough, I might just grab a used real convection oven and put in in the garage, that would allow me 3 huge trays at a time.
Cooking 2 kilos at a time for 10 min, twice, gets a bit long.

I hope it works nicely, will try to shoot tomorrow. I had no success with powdercoating (even with the electrostatic gun), always got leading, plus it was such a huge mess.

Mozz

02-08-2015, 11:43 AM

ioon44 Cracking idea.

And now, I am really kicking myself, as we have a dehydrator and i din't think of using it doh! Mind you i think i will pik one up on ebay, not sure my wife will be happy with me drying bullet in the one we use for food...

Just been on ebay, and I am looking at two dehydrators.

Thanks for the speedy response.

What a great idea. What is the temperature range for the dryer?

I wait 24hr to bake, but it would be nice to speed things up.

klcarroll

02-08-2015, 12:57 PM

What a great idea. What is the temperature range for the dryer?

I wait 24hr to bake, but it would be nice to speed things up.

The dehydrator I bought will hold an internal temperature of 115 degrees Fahrenheit when sitting in a 45 degree (F) garage. It is a fixed setting unit with no temperature adjustment.

Your mileage may vary, depending on the ambient temperature around the dehydrator, and the manufacturer of the unit.

Ausglock

02-08-2015, 04:19 PM

you lot are really overthinking the issue.
Alloy only needs to be 5 to 10 deg above ambient to dry.

Remember... while your oven is getting up to temp, you have the first tray of bullets sitting on top to pre warm them.
when that tray is baking, the next tray is on top pre-warming.
Did a few 1000 yesterday. playing with a heap of new colours from HI-TEK Joe. Coated and left for 10 minutes before baking.
temp was 28Deg C in the shed.
Instead of steel plate, try paver blocks.

HATCH

02-08-2015, 04:26 PM

I let my boolits dry for 30 mins and it was enough. Passed all test.
Don't make this harder then it has to be.

klcarroll

02-08-2015, 05:06 PM

I let my boolits dry for 30 mins and it was enough. Passed all test.
Don't make this harder then it has to be.

I live in the Chicago area: ......And right now, I have to run my heater for 2 hours to get my shop up to 60 degrees (F).

Not everyone is lucky enough to live in South Carolina!

If one extra, inexpensive step will ensure a good batch of bullets, I'm good with that!

HATCH

02-08-2015, 05:16 PM

Well I coat in the house and bake outside. There is no reason that you can't do the same.
I have a 30 inch convection oven. I bake one tray at a time.

kryogen

02-08-2015, 05:25 PM

HI-TEK

02-08-2015, 05:31 PM

I live in the Chicago area: ......And right now, I have to run my heater for 2 hours to get my shop up to 60 degrees (F).

Not everyone is lucky enough to live in South Carolina!

If one extra, inexpensive step will ensure a good batch of bullets, I'm good with that!

One suggestion I have been making is, that if the projectiles are warmed to about 25-30C before coating, a thinly applied first coat should dry quickly, as residual heat held in by alloy will dry/force out vapors, and coating will be dry fairly quickly.
All you really need to do is, coat quickly whilst projectiles are warm.
Allow to dry, then test only a few first , to see if they cook OK.
If the few cook up OK, then cook the rest.
It is mainly the first coat that needs to be bonded well first..
Subsequent coats will stick to previous coat.
As Ausglock said, in cold areas, leaving a mesh tray on top of oven will also help greatly with drying.
I am a bit concerned about Dehydrators, as you are handling flammable solvents/vapors, and these are possibly not ideal equipment for such uses.

HI-TEK

02-08-2015, 05:36 PM

the 2nd batch, I cooked 9 pounds in the oven.
Dropped to 160, took 3 minutes to get back to 200, and then I left it 10 min.
They look fine, did the smash test, looked ok, acetone wipe removed MINIMAL amount of colour. I mean, you could see a little hint of brown on the towel.
Is that bad?

Also, the boolits do not have a regular glossy appearance. They are a bit patchy, with more reddish spots, some brown, and it's a little rough.

Will shoot tomorrow and report. I made 100 .45 230RN with 4.7 bullseye. .4525 or so. Plunk fine.

How can I make the next batch more "glossy" and even looking?

Three areas that produce such results are
1. Used too much coating
2. Not dried enough
3. Coated/tumbled for too long (and possibly all 3)

Wipe off, is indicative of inadequate bake time. Simply try to cook a few an extra 1-2 minutes, It should not hurt. If this fixes solvent test, do the same with the rest.

klcarroll

02-08-2015, 05:57 PM

.........I am a bit concerned about Dehydrators, as you are handling flammable solvents/vapors, and these are possibly not ideal equipment for such uses.

I had similar concerns, which is why I made a point of checking the actual internal operating temperature of the dehydrator I was intending to use.

The hygroscopic nature of acetone has been pointed out many times in this thread, and it is the elimination of any present H2O contamination that got me to thinking about a forced drying system for use in the winter months here.

I am sure that I will probably not bother with this step in the summer months.

HI-TEK

02-08-2015, 06:04 PM

I had similar concerns, which is why I made a point of checking the actual internal operating temperature of the dehydrator I was intending to use.

The hygroscopic nature of acetone has been pointed out many times in this thread, and it is the elimination of any present H2O contamination that got me to thinking about a forced drying system for use in the winter months here.

I am sure that I will probably not bother with this step in the summer months.

You were right to check things out.
Unfortunately, it is very difficult to know just how much Acetone& or moisture is trapped in coating.
I really do not like heating/elements/switches, and solvent vapours in same area.
It may be much safer to simply warm alloy before coating.
Summer is a blessing, especially for larger scale producers.

kryogen

02-08-2015, 07:56 PM

Three areas that produce such results are
1. Used too much coating
2. Not dried enough
3. Coated/tumbled for too long (and possibly all 3)

Wipe off, is indicative of inadequate bake time. Simply try to cook a few an extra 1-2 minutes, It should not hurt. If this fixes solvent test, do the same with the rest.

My guess is too thick of a mix, not shaked enough just before pouring, and too much. My first coat was a bit too thick I think.
It was definitely dried enough, and wasnt shaked too long, so I would guess this.

I will shoot those tomorrow, see how it goes, I have loaded 100.
If they lead or leech coating, I'll re-cook the 150 others for another 2 minutes.

ioon44

02-08-2015, 10:42 PM

One thing I have trying to do for warm boolits is after pulling baked boolits out of the oven is to put a second coat on after they have cooled to about 25-30 deg C.(Just warm to the touch) At 1deg C ambient it doesn't take very long.

Last bunch I used 5-1-8 mix on the HT_TEK Black and 120ml-20g on Red Copper powder.
Question, Can I over coat at these mixes?

There is no liquid mix in the bucket when I dump them on the drying screen after about 15 to 20 sec of tumbling .

HI-TEK

02-08-2015, 11:36 PM

One thing I have trying to do for warm boolits is after pulling baked boolits out of the oven is to put a second coat on after they have cooled to about 25-30 deg C.(Just warm to the touch) At 1deg C ambient it doesn't take very long.

My reply, you just have to work faster and more efficiently...lol...lol
Seriously, I could not live in such cold conditions.
It must be awful.

Last bunch I used 5-1-8 mix on the HT_TEK Black and 120ml-20g on Red Copper powder.
Question, Can I over coat at these mixes?

My Reply; All coats can be re-coated with same or other Hi-Tek coloured coatings.

There is no liquid mix in the bucket when I dump them on the drying screen after about 15 to 20 sec of tumbling .

My Reply; If that is the case, you have got it down to a fine art.
You just barely need enough to coat without excess and minimal or nil in lube grooves.

gunoil

02-09-2015, 06:55 AM

kryogen

02-10-2015, 08:24 AM

shot 30 yesterday, will patch clean the barrel tonight and report. Was too late yesterday to go in the garage.
There appears to be gray striping but that could also just be powder residue I guess.

HI-TEK

02-10-2015, 05:34 PM

My guess is too thick of a mix, not shaked enough just before pouring, and too much. My first coat was a bit too thick I think.
It was definitely dried enough, and wasnt shaked too long, so I would guess this.

I will shoot those tomorrow, see how it goes, I have loaded 100.
If they lead or leech coating, I'll re-cook the 150 others for another 2 minutes.

Have you done smash test?
If they fail smash test after cooking, you will not "fix it" by cooking them longer.
Once coating sets, and not bonded, it cant be fixed.
It is a re-melt.
If coating was applied too thickly, and may be, not dried enough, this will cause poor results with smash tests after cooking.
If coating is not bonded to alloy, (it will fail smash tests), it is only enveloping alloy , so when shooting, coating will come off, exposing Lead to Barrel.

kryogen

02-10-2015, 10:13 PM

smash test is #1.

kryogen

02-10-2015, 11:24 PM

mmm, I got the worst leading in history.... full of lead after 30 rounds. I failed with my first hi-tek try...

What went wrong? Smash test doesnt seem to flake, went .001 over bore, wheel weights, fresh cast, dried enough (12 hours in a heated garage at 23 celcius and 20% humidity....).
Cases are flared enough, seating and crimp is separate. Minimal crimp to close case mouth.

HK45, octagonal barrel.

Got 70 rounds to pull now, how can I make sure I don't fail my next try? **** I though that hi-tek would fix it.

I got less leading with alox or 45/45/10...

Moonman

02-11-2015, 09:03 AM

Kryogen,
Liquid or Dry Powder HI-TEK?
How did you mix it and what Ratio?
What type of OVEN?
How do you VERIFY your ovens ACTUAL TEMPERATURE?
How did you establish YOUR total Baking Time?
Did you remove a couple projectiles at different time intervals to TEST them?
You need to adapt the process to YOUR EQUIPMENT for Temp and Time.
GOOD ACETONE is required, new FRESH is best, not water contaminated.
Bayou Bullets has 100 SAMPLE PACKS and FAST SHIPPING, maybe you should
try some commercial coated products first.

Love Life

02-11-2015, 09:22 AM

Check your throat.

klcarroll

02-11-2015, 10:47 AM

.........Bayou Bullets has 100 SAMPLE PACKS and FAST SHIPPING, maybe you shouldtry some commercial coated products first.

That's an excellent idea! You could at least determine if the problem lies with your coating process, or with mechanical issues. (Loading procedure/firearm)

kryogen

02-11-2015, 01:44 PM

Kryogen.

Liquid or Dry Powder HI-TEK? Dry
How did you mix it and what Ratio? 25ml to 5grams. (will do 30 to 5 next time)
What type of OVEN? Small convection with custom PID set at 200
How did you establish YOUR total Baking Time? When temp is back to 200, +10 minutes. So approx 11-13 depending on how much weight I put in it
Did you remove a couple projectiles at different time intervals to TEST them? No, didnt do that
You need to adapt the process to YOUR EQUIPMENT for Temp and Time. Will have to coat thinner and cook longer maybe. And test just a few
GOOD ACETONE is required, new FRESH is best, not water contaminated. I have good acetone.
Bayou Bullets has 100 SAMPLE PACKS and FAST SHIPPING, maybe you should. They cant ship to canada.

Avenger442

02-11-2015, 02:21 PM

Liquid or Dry Powder HI-TEK? Dry
How did you mix it and what Ratio? 25ml to 5grams. (will do 30 to 5 next time)
What type of OVEN? Small convection with custom PID set at 200
How did you establish YOUR total Baking Time? When temp is back to 200, +10 minutes. So approx 11-13 depending on how much weight I put in it
Did you remove a couple projectiles at different time intervals to TEST them? No, didnt do that
You need to adapt the process to YOUR EQUIPMENT for Temp and Time. Will have to coat thinner and cook longer maybe. And test just a few
GOOD ACETONE is required, new FRESH is best, not water contaminated. I have good acetone.
Bayou Bullets has 100 SAMPLE PACKS and FAST SHIPPING, maybe you should. They cant ship to canada.

I can. How much are they? Send me a PM.[smilie=s:

kryogen

02-11-2015, 02:27 PM

Moonman

02-11-2015, 03:52 PM

kryogen,

Possible problem with 5 grams weight to 25 ml Acetone.
I believe Ausglock states 20 grams of dry powder to 100 ml Acetone.
Smaller volumes may possibly have issues.

Cast up enough to try the larger mix quantity.
Shake well, let set an hour, shake well, then start to coat.

Avenger442

02-11-2015, 07:26 PM

I think that there is an issue with ITAR or something that doesnt allow selling lead projectiles across the border, I would not want to do something illegal without knowing it, I would prefer not to do that.

kryogen- Sorry was not intending that we do something illegal. I was referring to something I saw in a post on another board that went :

"Actually, the part about Canadian regulations is incorrect! To my knowledge there are no limits on "inert" items such as unprimed cartridge cases and bullets, and a Canadian individual is entitled to import for personal use (without permit) any or all of the following on any single occasion:
- small-arms sporting ammunition, up to a maximum of 5,000 rounds;
- primers (http://clicks.pangora.com/purchaseRedirect.do?p=0&c=637529&o=1067311566&che=cGFuZ29yYSHYl2TZaJMQgfwXArCpB2gH&m=60942&rid=749004533-749004532-20559&ver=2.0&market=us&man=Winchester&ser=3467&pc=27655836&pcat=78099&ts=MjAxNTAyMTAtMTAyMTE4&op=-1.0&dle=cGFuZ29yYSHQb4LjBJuY8bwDA5VeQ4cw0MtQPkFqicGyYP UxsEodbz7vdJ_EchcEArgW-LsUzmR8eajmMpodNtniNAu29ivhDZGPJBPhX4e2QLvmO6Ag0GA z__W5uIYkzF-LQvDszooMZtPYUwpj7kJeozoHlJUOZAHHn4ZKp18mtj9Wq8yyH FbS7nMNP6ICZFsz4WUZ6hBNZ3nYpFymEZQrOROAgxBDVTQzg-0jglEZf7wmgHJjNoAI4m44uYG0RF95rIcbw0LuRt2dSI3gz1k9 NtE59LQi0mPnPmdnDPG4uvoTs9xQPXHHtIHdKvWEBt4SyflEBA Pnu5NnNLOtzXJBMistAgON), up to a quantity of 5,000;
- empty primed cartridge cases, up to a quantity of 5,000; and
- propellants, smokeless powder in containers not exceeding 4000 grams and black powder in containers not exceeding 500 grams, up to a maximum total combined quantity of 8 kilograms, (17.66 pounds).
(Ref: http://www.cbsa.gc.ca/publications/p...-eng.html#P012 (http://www.cbsa.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5044-eng.html#P012))" (note this was posted in late 2013 I guess things could have changed)

They were careful to say that you could not use the USPS to send inert components to Canada. Of course since the question has been raised about the legality I'll retract my offer. With the Federal Administration we have here in the US, at the present time, it's not wise. We have had people disappear for less. LOL.

kryogen

02-11-2015, 08:37 PM

Yeah, I just have no clue about the legal aspects of this, and I don't have time to look into it, so I'll just cast my own and not bother, but thanks for wanting to help me.

Someone said, mix, let sit an hour, then re-mix? What I did is just mix, shake a minute, then coat. Isnt that good? (powder).

I don't really want to mix 100ml when I want to coat just 20 to try....

Moonman

02-11-2015, 09:24 PM

kryogen,

This process may not be for you, you need to mix up more and
experiment to get your process down, 20 is just not going yo
cut it, and short changing the mix process won't either.

Reread the thread and pay attention to Ausglock's and other testers procedures.

Ausglock

02-11-2015, 09:30 PM

With the DRYTEK powder..

I have 19 new samples I am currently playing with.
Process is:
Empty 250ml pop top bottle.
Add 20gms of powder DRYTEK.
Add 100mls of Acetone.
Attach pop top lid.
Shake the be Jesus out of it for a few minutes.
Leave it to sit for an hour.
Shake it some more.
Leave for another hour.
Shake it and coat the bullets.

The DRYTEK powder needs time to react. remember... it has the catalyst already in it as powder, so it has to go back into suspension as a liquid.

The Liquid HITEK can be mixed and used within 5 minutes.

As they say in the classics " Hurry up and wait" with the DRYTEK powder.
Don't be afraid of mixing too much. a 20gm:100ml mix will give better results than a 5gm:25ml mix due to more consistent ratio.
I tried doing small mixes when the powder first was tested and it did not work. That is why I standardised on the 20gm:100ml and it works.
mixing at 20gm:120mls will not hurt. It just makes for a thinner coating.
Also. you need to coat more than 20 bullets. you are just not getting the correct coverage by doing pissy little handfuls. do at least 2kg of bullets.
remember more is better for consistency.

Kryogen. have a look at the throat of your barrel as Mr. Moonman suggested.

kryogen

02-12-2015, 08:17 AM

Well, I did 250 last run but failed so I have to trash 220 casts.
What kind of container do you mix in? and then how do you measure the volume when you pour?

Could the failure have been caused by not letting enough time after the mix? I did mix, shake, coat, dry, cook. Used an unsuitable plastic container for the mix so it had failed during the night, 2nd coat was the same, mix, shake, coat.

Well, I would rather just find a pistol with a throat that works.
Is the glock 17 9mm factory barrel ok for that usually then? I don't mind switching to 9mm, whatever works...

Do you still go 1 overbore, like 358, with the coated 9, or do you keep those at 357 or so?
I usually go 1 overbore with minimal crimp and plunk test pass.

Moonman

02-12-2015, 09:30 AM

kryogen,

I use a "COOL WHIP" pie topping plastic container (frozen food section) to
tumble the projectiles in.
I measure with MEASURING SPOONS.
I use 3 POUNDS of projectiles and 3.7 ml of solution.
1/2 teaspoon = 2.5 ml and 1/4 teaspoon = 1.2 ml
2.5 + 1.2 = 3.7 ml per 3 pounds, per APPLICATION.
I let dry OVERNIGHT. (I have wire mesh trays I made from HARDWARE CLOTH).
1/8" MESH IF YOU CAN FIND IT, OTHERWISE 1/4" OR USE EXPANDED METAL.

Glock barrels (Polygonal rifleing) have been successfully used by many.

.001 overbore size. (.358 projectile dia.)

Just remelt your bad projectiles, the coatings float to skim off.

Loading, Make sure you BELL THE CASE ENOUGH so you don't scrape the coating.
Minimum Crimp, Do the plunk test for O.A.L.
Do WIPE & SMASH TEST on projectiles.

Have a look at your present THROAT for LEAD there presently, clean well if so.

Since you are using the DRY mix maybe you can raise your bake temp a bit,
Dry mix can stand more variance, maybe even get another (oven) thermo
to verify your PID temp setting and oven actual temp.

You can vary temps and bake times.

Start removing a couple projectiles at say 10 min,
11 mins, 12 mins, 13 mins, 14 mins, 15 mins.
Keep track of which is which, run SMASH & WIPE tests
record results of time & temp.

ioon44

02-12-2015, 09:48 AM

Ausglock great post, but brings up more questions as I am still having problems with the smash test.

I have been doing 25ml and 30ml to 5 grams with the Red Copper powder and let set for 1 hour or more, coating 2kg of boolits and baking 12 min at 400deg in a convection oven. Can you help me to under stand how 100ml to 20grams is better than 25ml to 5 grams? How long would the shelf life be on the 100ml to 20 grams mix be?

In the cold weather here would the 120ml to 20 grams be better and what about 150ml to 20 grams?

I have also been using the liquid Black at 5-1-8, does it matter if this is mixed in small amounts?

One more question I have been using 3 cheap oven thermometers and they all read the same, but I bought a professional grade restaurant thermometer and it reads 430 deg in the same tray as the cheap ones reading 400 deg, if I have been baking at 430 deg will this cause the boolits to fail the smash test?
The color of the boolits seem fine with the Black and Red Copper.

Leatherhead Bullets

02-12-2015, 11:28 AM

We have ran the liquid in black, red copper, and brick red. Recently started using the powder version of the brick red. There is definitely a slight difference in application between the two. We found thinning with a little more acetone, just like with the liquid, helps with thinner coats. Too much and too thick of mix can cause failure in the smash test. Also, using the powder, the bullets need to be tumbled for a much shorter time. Try leaving the lid on the tub for a few seconds to keep the acetone from flashing too fast. They can get sticky quick. We use just shy of 1ml per pound of bullets across the board. Weight is more consistent than count in both coverage and cooking time.

Moonman

02-12-2015, 01:32 PM

ioon44 and others with failures of dry powder,

Ausglock states in post #4749 that mixing DRY POWDER as follows,
20 GRAMS POWDER 100 ml ACETONE.
The dry powder mix has color and catalyst mixed together.
Ausglock found out during testing that trying to mix a batch up with
less than that amount of powder and acetone LED TO FAILURE.

Possibility exists that lesser amount of mix DOES NOT have sufficient
ratio of ingredients to properly GO OFF.

Personally I use 20 grams powder and 100 ml Acetone.
I try to follow Ausglock's guide as he has mucho experience here.

TOO MANY PEOPLE TRY TO WRITE THEIR OWN DIRECTIONS AND RULES.

For once in your life TRY TO FOLLOW DIRECTIONS, or buy some commercially
coated projectiles as you're destined to fail on your own.

RANT OFF!

Avenger442

02-12-2015, 04:30 PM

I'm still using the 1035 Gold liquid and have not found time to try the powder. I do have some 1035 Black in the powder. It seems logical to me that if you can mix 20 grams with 100 ml you should be able to half that to 10 grams and 50 ml. But after all folks aren't we talking tablespoons of liquid here? Why not mix 20:100? So you might lose a tablespoon of liquid?? I know; one of the reasons we started loading and then casting was economy. I even save the clips off of my wheel weights and the jackets when I melt range scrap. But I have to draw the line somewhere. So my first mix will be 20:100 and if I have a failure I'll access why and melt them down. The learning curve is fairly simple with the liquids and have had just one coating failure. Mostly due to following this page. I've had more trouble finding loads my guns like. It is worth fooling with till you get it right. Look at the options to doing this.

Have seen where some said that they prefer using the powder because of the mixing of just acetone to the powder vs. having to mix catalysis, color and acetone with the liquids. More convenient and less chance for a mistake. I have found with the liquid mixes, like many have said, that the ratio of acetone in the mix can be varied. There must be enough, and can have too much too I guess. But I have found it to be somewhat flexible as far as the amount of acetone. It seems logical that adding a bit of acetone after the 100 ml in the powder would not be critical in the 20:100 mix.

I have used the liquid Hi-Tek mix two weeks after I mixed it with no problem. Ausglock has used mix after longer periods. But I tend toward mixing what I will use in one session. If I had a tablespoon or two of mix left I would probably just leave it in the bottle and maybe add a little more acetone when I got ready to use it like I have done with the liquid mix.

Well I've rambled on long enough.

Ausglock

02-12-2015, 04:36 PM

Moonman

02-12-2015, 04:44 PM

Avenger442,

You'll like the Black 1035 when you get around to giving it a try.
You cast up a few hundred or a thousand and the 20G/100ml gets used up w/2 coats.
Originally kryogen was trying to test coat 20 pills ONLY and a NEWBIE at the deal to boot.

kryogen

02-12-2015, 07:29 PM

Avenger442,
Originally kryogen was trying to test coat 20 pills ONLY and a NEWBIE at the deal to boot.

No, actually, I did 250, but that doesn't really matter.

What do you store the mixed hi-tex in? That doesnt melt with acetone?

Gremlin460

02-12-2015, 07:41 PM

I have here, Mixed coating that was mixed back in September 2014!
It has been sitting on my bench all through summer here. Shed temps have been up to 45Deg C!
That is about 115 Deg F.
I used it to coat last night just to verify that it is OK.
Yes. It coated, wiped and smash tested fine.
So it has been mixed for almost 5 months and still works.

So mix the 20gms:100mls for the DRYTEK powder.
don't be scared to mix this amount. it will work for ages.

I second this, my mix has stood for months aswell. The only thing I have noticed (I used the wet mix still) is that the mix will darken in the bottle, but this does NOT affect coating what so ever.

Moonman

02-12-2015, 08:18 PM

I use SMALL Coke-Cola bottles 8 or 10 oz size to mix/store, the Acetone doesn't
eat it, but I place them into larger sized Yogurt/cottage cheese type plastic containers also.

Ausglock

02-12-2015, 08:37 PM

I use PET plastic poptop juice bottles. They are the same PET as the Coke bottles.
Look at the bottom of the bottle for the PET logo and number.

Coating used is 5 to 6mls per 2kg of bullet alloy.

Beagle333

02-12-2015, 08:40 PM

I keep mine in a plastic dishwashing liquid bottle. The spout on top is handy. It hasn't seemed to bother that plastic any, and this one has been in use (always at least partially filled) for about 5-6 months.

Avenger442

02-12-2015, 09:10 PM

I use a couple of clear plastic ketchup bottles like you see in restaurants with the snap on cap. Got at Wal Mart 50 cents each I think. I like that dishwash liquid bottle idea. Ours is about empty.

Rodvan

02-12-2015, 10:31 PM

I know this is supposed to be piss easy, but I can' get the coating to stick!
I'm using the red copper powder mixing and shaking per instructions...
Cook the bullets for 12 minutes @ 400° and they all pass the wipe and smash test. I still get a bit of leading at the last inch or so of the barrel in a S&W M&P 40 compact. So, I mixed up a new batch of juice, shook the **** out of it and let it set for a day. I dumped 3.5 pounds of bullets in a bucket, shook the **** out of liquid before I gave the bullets a squirt of juice, shook for 20 seconds and dumped on a tray to dry. It's pretty cold in the garage, so after the coat set for a couple of minutes I put the bullets in the basement to dry overnight. I cooked this batch for 15 minutes instead of 12 and they pass all tests, but I can still scrape the coating off with my thumbnail! No I don't have hard nails...This happens with two different batches of lead, 15 & 18 bnh. Is my lead too soft? 'Caus I'm running out of ideas.

kryogen

02-12-2015, 11:38 PM

is it because I have TL boolits? does it matter?

popper

02-12-2015, 11:40 PM

Ausglock

02-13-2015, 05:30 AM

Tell me you are NOT using a Lee Factory crimp die on the 40 rounds.
I have never, ever been able to scrape coating off with a fingernail.

kryogen

02-13-2015, 09:18 AM

is it worth it heat treating the alloy?
My boolits are almost all wheel weights.

ioon44

02-13-2015, 11:50 AM

I have here, Mixed coating that was mixed back in September 2014!
It has been sitting on my bench all through summer here. Shed temps have been up to 45Deg C!
That is about 115 Deg F.
I used it to coat last night just to verify that it is OK.
Yes. It coated, wiped and smash tested fine.
So it has been mixed for almost 5 months and still works.

So mix the 20gms:100mls for the DRYTEK powder.
don't be scared to mix this amount. it will work for ages.

Ausglock thank you for this post, it is always good to read your post.

ioon44

02-13-2015, 11:57 AM

I use the green for 9 & 40, I can scrape it off with a knife edge but lead is attached. I get leading when using WST in both, powder is too fast? I think it is sizing & gun problem. You do use 3 coats and HT the alloy?

MY last test with the Red Copper powder with 3 thin coats out of a .40 cal Glock and WST powder was really good, two different barrels showed no leading or leaching looked like J word bullets had been shot. This was with 140gr and 170gr boolits at .402" da running in the 900fps range.

Avenger442

02-13-2015, 12:17 PM

is it because I have TL boolits? does it matter?

I have coated and shot Lee TL bullets with no problems. Most experienced at Hi-Tek will tell you TL doesn't matter.

Moonman

02-13-2015, 12:24 PM

I've used LUBE GROOVED, TL GROOVE, and NO GROOVE projectiles
with HI-TEK ans ALL are good to shoot.

Avenger442

02-13-2015, 12:30 PM

is it worth it heat treating the alloy?
My boolits are almost all wheel weights.

I coat and shoot mostly rifle so I want an alloy that can withstand the pressure. I water drop my bullets after the last coat just to get a little extra BHN. Most of the .308 I have shot are wheel weight with 2% tin.

Can't prove it, but think Hi-Tek allows me to shoot a little softer lead, at the pressures I use, than I could shoot with Alox or lube in the groove. While Hi-Tek Joe has told me several times it's not intended to be a jacket but more of a separation between barrel and bullet, I think that the three coats I'm using protects the lead more than a lubricant.

When I have my loads right, my .308 bolt gun shoots the same groups I get with factory jacketed ammo. About 1 1/2" at 100 yards.

Rodvan

02-13-2015, 07:54 PM

Tell me you are NOT using a Lee Factory crimp die on the 40 rounds.
I have never, ever been able to scrape coating off with a fingernail.
I'm not using a Lee FCD. Loaded with Dillon SDB. I'm going to try three coats (only used2) and see what happens. The strange thing with the leading in the 40 is, it's only bad in one groove, the others have very little leading.

Ausglock

02-14-2015, 01:33 AM

have you looked at the throating/lead on the rifling at the chamber end?

There may be a fault that is causing this.

Talk me through your coating process. leave nothing out.
I want to try and help you.

HI-TEK

02-14-2015, 05:37 AM

I second this, my mix has stood for months aswell. The only thing I have noticed (I used the wet mix still) is that the mix will darken in the bottle, but this does NOT affect coating what so ever.

It is interesting you mentioned "aged colour of coatings", I was going through my held retention stock samples, and found a coating that was liquid and made in 2012, (not Catalysed).
It was very dark, like dark caramel, but it was found to coat just fine, but colour was not that great, as dark resin colour over rode actual designed colour.
I was amazed at just how many retention samples I had accumulated over the years. Some were trial testing samples, some worked and others did not. Now, they are a big mixed bonfire, to make room for more retention samples, both from production, and new testing developments with new colours.
These material were stored in a shed, in a steel cabinet and had been exposed to both the Australian heat and cold, or should I say cool.

popper

02-14-2015, 11:26 AM

Ioon44 - what was your load? I'm shooting 165 TC in the 40, have a # of WST to use up. I'd like to use it in 9mm also for the daughter.

leadman

02-14-2015, 12:06 PM

Rodvan, you did not say when you are sizing or how. Do not size the boolits prior to coating as this burnishes the metal and the coating will not stick. Also use a little lube of some type (I use RCBS case lube) when sizing.
There have been some problems noted with alloys that leave a slight amount of white powder on the boolits. This should be washed off the acetone prior to coating. It is possibly zinc or calcium, nobody seems to know for certain.

Some barrels have little to no leade ahead of the chamber and this can cut the coating. To test this load a dummy cartridge with the boolit loaded long and insert it in the chamber and give it a twist. If the coating is cut have a gunsmith recut the chamber for you. Tthe rifling should be tapered on the ends in front of the chamber to guide the boolit or bullet into the rifling.

Gremlin460

02-14-2015, 08:08 PM

It is interesting you mentioned "aged colour of coatings", I was going through my held retention stock samples, and found a coating that was liquid and made in 2012, (not Catalysed).
It was very dark, like dark caramel, but it was found to coat just fine, but colour was not that great, as dark resin colour over rode actual designed colour.
I was amazed at just how many retention samples I had accumulated over the years. Some were trial testing samples, some worked and others did not. Now, they are a big mixed bonfire, to make room for more retention samples, both from production, and new testing developments with new colours.
These material were stored in a shed, in a steel cabinet and had been exposed to both the Australian heat and cold, or should I say cool.

I was suprised with the ageing colour, but as I said these coated and fired well, I do have a early batch of Red I have used very little off, and a Blue both of which I had failures with.. they will be deposited in the JJ skip next time I do a clear out. I am getting to the point of needing more sauce for my boolits..

Ausglock

02-14-2015, 09:55 PM

Grem. Give me a Cooee.
Have you tried the powder DRYTEK?
What Blue do you have?
Wanna swap? blue for some powder?

Don't tell Joe....:bigsmyl2:

Rodvan

02-14-2015, 09:58 PM

Ausglock, here's my process. I add 20 grams of powder (checked with scale) to 100ml of acetone. I combine all ingredients in a small squirt bottle with a boolit and shake for a couple of minutes and let it set. I repeat this a couple of times and let it set overnight or longer. To coat the boolits, I add 3.5 lbs to a bowl and one squirt of liquid in a circular motion on the boolits. I hold a lid on the bowl and start swirling and shaking for 20 seconds or so and dump on tray to dry. I found that one squirt gives a lite coating and I always have a little bit of liquid left on the bottom of the bowl. I let the boolits dry for a couple of minutes and then into the basement to dry overnight or longer. I set the tray of boolits on top of the convection oven to warm as the oven preheats to 425°. I then place one tray of boolits in the oven and set the timer for 15 minutes and wait. The temp will drop to 350° or 375° for three minutes before it starts rising towards 400°. By 11 minutes into the cook, the temp is at 425° for the last three or four minutes. I remove boolits and let them cool before the wipe and smash test. I wet a paper towel with acetone and wipe for thirty or fourty seconds, then the smash test with a vise and hammer. I have had a lite color left on the towel, but the smash test is always 100%.
I then size the boolits with a Lee sizer:cry: The .40s are dropping from the mold right at .401 and size very easy without lube. The 9mm is another story. They drop at .358-.359 and probably 50% had the coating scraped off with the sizing die. I now lube the die with Hornady One Shot before sizing and the coating stays on. Then load 'em up and shot the little trouble makers...
The coating on the .40 is very hard and I can't scrape it off, except at the base and the corner of the lube groove. The 9mm I can scrape the coating off anywhere.

Leadman: the chamber looks okay but I'll load a dummy round and see if the chamber is cutting the coating. It makes sense because when I slugged the barrel only two grooves were showing lead, the others were okay.

Here's another thought. My Lee molds need a very lite coat of oil on the bottom of the sprue plate to prevent lead buildup. I'm wondering if the oil is migrating into the cavity. What do you guys think about that? Thanks for your help with problem.

Recluse

02-14-2015, 11:08 PM

I'm using a 6:1 ratio of acetone to Hi-Tek powder, but what I'm doing different from Rodvan is that I'm tumbling the boolits without a lid and letting the acetone evaporate. In the process, the coating is beginning to dry on the boolits and I can audibly hear the difference in sound the boolits make while tumbling.

I then pour them out on my wire-mesh screen baking tray and separate any whose bases may be touching. I set them under the ceiling fan for an additional ten minutes until they are dry to the touch then bake them for fifteen minutes at 400F.

After the first baking, I take them out and let them cool, then repeat the process. I give the boolits three light coatings and after the third baking, as they come out of the oven, I dump them into a water bath. After pulling them out of the water, I run them through the Lee push-through sizing die while the boolits are still wet. I then dump the sized boolits on a dry towel and let them dry before putting them in containers.

So far, with both the Red Copper and the Black 1037, I have had no issues with the coating flaking off or rubbing off with an acetone-wetted cloth.

:coffee:

Ausglock

02-14-2015, 11:45 PM

Ausglock, here's my process. I add 20 grams of powder (checked with scale) to 100ml of acetone. I combine all ingredients in a small squirt bottle with a boolit and shake for a couple of minutes and let it set. I repeat this a couple of times and let it set overnight or longer.
Sounds fine so far.
To coat the boolits, I add 3.5 lbs to a bowl and one squirt of liquid in a circular motion on the boolits. I hold a lid on the bowl and start swirling and shaking for 20 seconds or so and dump on tray to dry. I found that one squirt gives a lite coating and I always have a little bit of liquid left on the bottom of the bowl. I let the boolits dry for a couple of minutes and then into the basement to dry overnight or longer. I set the tray of boolits on top of the convection oven to warm as the oven preheats to 425°. I then place one tray of boolits in the oven and set the timer for 15 minutes and wait. The temp will drop to 350° or 375° for three minutes before it starts rising towards 400°. By 11 minutes into the cook, the temp is at 425° for the last three or four minutes. I remove boolits and let them cool before the wipe and smash test. I wet a paper towel with acetone and wipe for thirty or fourty seconds, then the smash test with a vise and hammer. I have had a lite color left on the towel, but the smash test is always 100%.

Still OK. Don't worry about slight colour wipe off.
I then size the boolits with a Lee sizer:cry:
Nothing wrong with the lee sizer dies except their sometimes not accurate in their size as marked.
The .40s are dropping from the mold right at .401 and size very easy without lube. The 9mm is another story. They drop at .358-.359 and probably 50% had the coating scraped off with the sizing die. I now lube the die with Hornady One Shot before sizing and the coating stays on. Then load 'em up and shot the little trouble makers...

Polish the inside of the 9mm sizer die with oil in extremely fine wet and dry sandpaper.

The coating on the .40 is very hard and I can't scrape it off, except at the base and the corner of the lube groove. The 9mm I can scrape the coating off anywhere.

Can you scrape it off before or after sizing or both?

Leadman: the chamber looks okay but I'll load a dummy round and see if the chamber is cutting the coating. It makes sense because when I slugged the barrel only two grooves were showing lead, the others were okay.

Here's another thought. My Lee molds need a very lite coat of oil on the bottom of the sprue plate to prevent lead buildup. I'm wondering if the oil is migrating into the cavity. What do you guys think about that?
Synthetic oil on the Spruplate is no problem, provided you don't go overboard. I use synthetic grease on all mine.

Thanks for your help with problem.

See my comments...

Also, coat without the lid.

redrockant

02-15-2015, 01:32 AM

Rodvan.
Ausglock and I coat thousands of projies per week. One of my main reason for flaking when I started out was too much coating. Joe explained it to me a being a similar comparison to glass. A superfine coat will flex whereas a thick coat will break. Hence cracking and flaking off.
I don't subscribe to the slurp method rather prefer to use a syringe to measure precise volumes of HiTek.
you mentioned you need to oil your sprue cutter, as trev said we use synthetic grease all the time. Make sure there is no silicon in the product you are using. Last thing you need is the alloy being contaminated and affecting your coating.
Try coating with an open container. You will hear a change in the mix when the acetone has flashed off and the projies will start to clump together.
Let them sit overnight or longer to make sure they are dry.
Like all reloading it isn't a race, take your time
:-|

ioon44

02-15-2015, 11:03 AM

Ioon44 - what was your load? I'm shooting 165 TC in the 40, have a # of WST to use up. I'd like to use it in 9mm also for the daughter.

I used the starting load from www.hodgdon.com (http://www.hodgdon.com) for the WST in .40. I have not used it in 9mm, Hodgdon doesn't list WST for it, I have been using Auto Comp for 9mm.

ioon44

02-15-2015, 11:32 AM

leadman

02-15-2015, 12:55 PM

I do think that using a closed container may allow too thick of a coating to be placed on the boolits. As stated above listen for the sound to change when tumbling the boolits. When it is hot here in Az. it can take only a few seconds (never timed it) for the sound to change. Think of the first coat as a primer, as Hi-Tek coating is a type of paint.

Ausglock

02-15-2015, 04:23 PM

Did some coating testing last night.
applied 1 coat of Gold 1035 in open top container and another lot with 1 coat in a closed top container.
Bullets were 135gn RN all from the same alloy and cast at the same time. 250 bullets per lot for testing.
Mix was 5.1.7. same mix was used for both.
4 litre (1 gallon) plastic pail is used to do the coating in.
both lots were let dry for 30 minutes and them baked at 200 Deg C for 12 minutes.
both were let cool in front of a fan.
3 bullets from each lot were wiped and smashed.
the 3 from the closed top container smashed off.
the 3 from the open top container passed the smash test.

So. there ya have it.

ioon44

02-15-2015, 05:58 PM

kryogen

02-15-2015, 06:58 PM

Can you post pics of failed smash test?

Ausglock

02-15-2015, 07:06 PM

Can you post pics of failed smash test?

Bugger.. They all went back into the melt pot....

Rodvan

02-15-2015, 07:15 PM

redrockant

02-15-2015, 07:31 PM

Coating looks fine Can still see lead in lube grooves So not too thick.. Did you leave them over night to dry? They aren't dry immediately after tumbling
I scratch test the projies l have Smashed flat on both the flat and round edges.

Rodvan

02-15-2015, 07:46 PM

I let them dry 30-45 minutes. They felt dry, but I'm going to try another batch and let the set overnight.

Ausglock

02-15-2015, 08:20 PM

Video does not load. Says it has been deleted by owner.

What alloy you using?
Smash means smash.. not squeeze in a vise.
put the bullet on a lump of steel and smash the schit out of it with a bloody big hammer.
I posted vids a few pages back of how I smash...
http://vid193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/smash/2013-12-28_17-28-54_197.mp4

Moonman

02-15-2015, 08:31 PM

Rodvan,

Dry to TOUCH is not necessarily dry, it's moisture under the coating that needs to be dry.

HI-TEK

02-15-2015, 08:56 PM

Okay guys here is my latest attempt. I read the directions again for the fifth time. I measured 3ml of coating to three pounds of bullets and shook in an open container until the sound changed and placed on tray to dry. Well, they were basically dry when the sound changed. I brought them inside to finish drying for about 30-45 minutes. The photos show one coat cooked for 15 minutes between 350°-400°. Both batches passed the wipe and smash test but failed the scrape test.
Click the link below to see two videos showing how easy the coating comes off.

http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/irodmedia1961/library/Hi-Tek

Hi,
When coating, you must not continue coating/tumbling until coating is dry in the bucket/mixer you are using.
If it is cold where you are coating, the simple fact that Acetone absorbs water quickly, and also chills bullets during drying, and this will cause moisture entrapment inside coating. The fact that coating feels dry to the touch is not an accurate indicator to bake. Skin formation on coating during drying, feels dry to the touch. Underneath dry skin, there may be moisture trapped, that cannot get out.
The instant you put these into an oven, the trapped "moisture" instantly turns into super heated steam, which is trapped between coating and colder alloy. Heat will set coating, but there is no bonding.
I suggest that you only try to bake a few at a time, at various intervals, after drying, to determine when product actually becomes suitable to bake and will stick to alloy..
I have previously advised users, when they are in cold conditions, that warming alloy to about 25-30C first, and then quickly coating and dumping onto drying racks, will help drying greatly as residual warmth contained in alloy helps with drying and reduction of moisture pick up.
Please advise when you have repeated this method as suggested.
Scratching off coating when you have product that smashes OK is a total contradiction.
If product passes smash test, coating should not be removed with fingernail scratching.
Why did you bake for 15 minutes?
What is your true oven temperature?

Rodvan

02-15-2015, 09:29 PM

HI-TEK

02-15-2015, 09:41 PM

Ausglock, try these links.
Hi-tek, I want this to work more than you. I know there isn't anything wrong with your product, I just can't get it to work,yet. When I do the smash test I don't have any coating flake off,ever, but I can scrape it off. Sounds odd but that's the way it is.

http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/irodmedia1961/media/Hi-Tek/trim.A8DD7C8A-8E00-4A79-BF98-81718F719620_zpsuuw6u9by.mp4.html

http://vid1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah314/irodmedia1961/Hi-Tek/trim.70E77AD4-963F-40C7-8346-BF5833C2C8ED_zpsquhltqaa.mp4

I viewed your video MP4 is only one that plays.
What did you use to scratch coating, it was not your finger nails.
Also, please have a look at smash test. Not squeezed in a vice but "smashed" like in video by Ausglock.
If you would have done smash test as per Ausglocks video, coating would have come off and would have confirmed "no adhesion"

Rodvan

02-15-2015, 09:46 PM

I viewed your video MP4 is only one that plays.
What did you use to scratch coating, it was not your finger nails.
Also, please have a look at smash test. Not squeezed in a vice but "smashed" like in video by Ausglock.
If you would have done smash test as per Ausglocks video, coating would have come off and would have confirmed "no adhesion"
The coating was scraped with a very flexible piece of plastic. All of the smash tests are with a hammer pounding the bullet, not squeezed in a vice and the coating does not come off.

HI-TEK

02-15-2015, 10:01 PM

The coating was scraped with a very flexible piece of plastic. All of the smash tests are with a hammer pounding the bullet, not squeezed in a vice and the coating does not come off.

OK.
Can you please have a very close look at surface of alloy when coating is scratched off?
Magnify if possible to examine metal surface.
What does surface look like? If possible, can you examine flakes of coating where it was in contact with alloy?
What did it look like?
After successful smash test, how long was it before you tested with your scratch test?
What alloy did you use?

Ausglock

02-15-2015, 10:22 PM

Rodvan

02-15-2015, 10:47 PM

A piece of plastic is not a fingernail.
Schit!!!. I can scrape it off too with something like that!
Even unloading a full mag can have coating scraped off by the front metal of the 1911 mag.
It is removing alloy and coating. not coating on it's own.

I thought you said earlier that you couldn't scrape the coating off, and I asked in my first post if my lead was too soft

Frankd

02-16-2015, 12:05 AM

You can easily scratch that coating off with a brass key.

That bullet coating has micro abrasives. Has anyone bothered to do a chemical analysis of it ? Some people already have. It is a heat set/cure polymer powder coating mixed and sold in liquid form and contains aluminum oxides or high quality abrasives. Unless you want to intentionally fire-lap your barrel, I wouldn't use that coating as a bullet "lube" . I'm sure the seller of it will deny this fact.

Professional powder coaters who know their business well and the secrets of the powders they use, will purposely mix certain solvents with their powders to liquify them to almost exactly like paint. That liquid paint is then used to touch-up defects in their powder coating jobs after the baking process.

That supplier is doing exactly that and premixing the powder with a solvent and then selling it with a catalyst to accelerate the drying time before baking.

Ausglock

02-16-2015, 12:24 AM

I thought you said earlier that you couldn't scrape the coating off, and I asked in my first post if my lead was too soft

Not with a fingernail, you can't.
And you can't scrape the coating off the alloy, because it is bonded to the alloy when baked correctly.
You can scrape the coating and alloy off.
Sorry for the confusion.Not with a fingernail, you can't.
And you can't scrape the coating off the alloy, because it is bonded to the alloy when baked correctly.
You can scrape the coating and alloy off.
Sorry for the confusion.
I have coated and fired alloy from 10BHN up to 20 BHN with no issues with retained coating.
from 500fps up to 1800fps. in pistol calibres. I don't do rifle.

Ausglock

02-16-2015, 12:26 AM

Frankd

02-16-2015, 12:30 AM

Ummm... I think you are barking up the wrong tree.
This is NOT powdercoating.
It will not wear away your barrel.

---------
Ummm… Ignorance is bliss

And YES-IT-IS powder coating.

HI-TEK

02-16-2015, 12:51 AM

---------
Ummm… Ignorance is bliss

And YES-IT-IS powder coating.

Thanks for your informative blogs, most humorous reading.

Unfortunately, information you had received and posted, is incorrect.
You have just joined this blog site, and without any useful contribution to this site, you immediately are trying to damage the reputation of the Hi-Tek coating product.
Just wondering, what is the reason/purpose of your blog?
Further, where, or from whom, you obtained the alleged results, from which you formed your educated conclusions?
Further, can you provide any evidence/test results, to support your alleged statements?
Even further, I am sure that all who read and contribute to this site, would like to know, why you joined this site, it seems, for no other purpose than to try to discredit the coating.

Gremlin460

02-16-2015, 03:00 AM

Grem. Give me a Cooee.
Have you tried the powder DRYTEK?
What Blue do you have?
Wanna swap? blue for some powder?

Don't tell Joe....:bigsmyl2:

Sorry Trev the Blue is now deceased.. all I have left is the Red 254 and the red 122l, both the cats in these have turned dark, in fact the Glitter yellow cat has don't the same.
I have never opened the 122L and had issues with the 254, BUT it was my noob start on colour, so the failures could easily have been my fault, actually more than likely my fault.
No I haven't tried powder yet, due to the fact this damn liquid stuff goes so far!!!
I am up for any colour next, either purple or lime green

Gremlin460

02-16-2015, 03:15 AM

Just for the new guys who are having difficulty putting wise words into mental pictures.. This is how *I* coat with Hi-Tec, now like everyone else there is differences in methology so beware of the fact every one does it slightly different.

I load for a beretta 92fs, S&W pro series 1911, a SA loaded 1911 and a xdm and a grock 19 , none of these lead the barrel with this method I use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3saWDLobPAo

Mike.

HI-TEK

02-16-2015, 03:38 AM

Ausglock

02-16-2015, 04:43 AM

---------
Ummm… Ignorance is bliss

And YES-IT-IS powder coating.

Umm. No, Drongo it is NOT Powder coat!!
Go Troll some other forum... You are like Camp Quality without the cancer..

Ausglock

02-16-2015, 04:56 AM

Jesus, Grem... You waste more than you use... :-)
I use a 30ml glass measure (like a Shot glass( 2 pours of 25mls each time))
Also use it for the 10mls of Catalyst( washed with Acetone after the colour and after the Catalyst)
And a plastic measure for the 75mls of Acetone.

Moonman

02-16-2015, 06:57 AM

Frankd,

You sure sound like a TROLL!
Kindly GO AWAY SIR, your knowledge or lack of concerning
this product is not required on this thread.

Ausglock

02-16-2015, 07:10 AM

It's Spelt "TROLL".... T-R-O-L-L..Gezz

Moonman

02-16-2015, 07:19 AM

No casting or coating here today,
IT'S MINUS 17 DEGREES F PRESENTLY!

It hasn't been this cold here in 50 years, a record for today.

redrockant

02-16-2015, 07:23 AM

Grem good video. Where do you get your tubs?

klcarroll

02-16-2015, 10:30 AM

It's Spelt "TROLL".... T-R-O-L-L..Gezz

LOL!! .....

As I see it, anyone who doesn't understand the humor in the whole "Boolits Thing" simply lacks the social skills required for this particular community!

popper

02-16-2015, 02:59 PM

Not with a fingernail, you can't. 4 coats of the dry gold, scraped off with my fingernail. Passed the other tests. Freshly cast boolits. Never had a problem with the liquid green. Will try with green & then gold today - open topped.

Frankd

02-16-2015, 03:38 PM

Thanks for your informative blogs, most humorous reading.

Unfortunately, information you had received and posted, is incorrect.
You have just joined this blog site, and without any useful contribution to this site, you immediately are trying to damage the reputation of the Hi-Tek coating product.
Just wondering, what is the reason/purpose of your blog?
Further, where, or from whom, you obtained the alleged results, from which you formed your educated conclusions?
Further, can you provide any evidence/test results, to support your alleged statements?
Even further, I am sure that all who read and contribute to this site, would like to know, why you joined this site, it seems, for no other purpose than to try to discredit the coating.
------------------

Obviously, you've decided to start a thread here and promote a product "J&M Specialized Products Australian HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat" for profit on this website. I see no problem with that and would encourage anyone to do the same as long as they were actually doing that in all honesty and with good faith in all respects. You are here from another country posting in the USA. You're acting as a professional and owner for profit of your snake-oil "J&M Specialized Products Australian HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat" as a "lube" (dry lubricant) of sorts for bullet projectiles. This site requires you to have the appropriate credentials to sell this product and act as it's lawful owner and accept all responsibilities as such.

Where exactly are your credentials to sell this product here in the USA ?

Where is the MSDS for this product ?

Where are the required EPA controlled lab results for it's use and safety ?

What legalities are you worried about associated with your J&M Specialized Products Australian HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat and it's use here in the USA ?

Are you worried you may be sued to hell because of falsities advertised of your foreign J&M Specialized Products Australian HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat product that you refuse to publicize this product world-wide so you choose to keep a very low profile and hide in Australia and sell your snake-oil to other countries while evading any possible criminal or civil prosecution ?

Can you legally possess an FFL in the USA to sell and produce that product here ?

Do you have a criminal history you're worried about ?

You see, unbeknownst to you, there are people who know you and know your motives to beguile the end users of your product.

Extensive lab tests on your J&M Specialized Products Australian HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat have already been done and your product DOES contain barium sulfate and synthetic aluminum oxides. Your product is a modified and fluidized thermoset hybridized POWDER COATING that despite YOUR claims is YOUR "invention" (which it IS NOT ) DOES contain very highly refined and high quality abrasives.

YOUR J&M Specialized Products Australian HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat was tested in fourteen test barrels and after 22,000 rounds those barrels were significantly larger in groove and land measurements and all the normally sharp ridges surfaces where obviously rounded by way of lapping which could only occur if you were using a very fine abrasive.

You have obviously successfully managed to beguile many people into thinking your J&M Specialized Products Australian HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat is NOT a modified powder coating and is an "invention" of yours that will do no harm to a rifled barrel.

Ever wonder why your barrel is so damn shiny with easy cleaning after firing 1,500 rounds of that J&M Specialized Products Australian HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat on bullets through a pistol barrel ? That's the highly refined abrasives doing what they do.

I have nothing to gain to post my truths. I have no interest to destroy anyone's reputation. I am not any competitor of yours. I couldn't care less about your successes or failures in life, nincompoop. But one of the many things I am is a chemical engineering guru and inventor of things that have been in outer space. Your J&M Specialized Products Australian HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat interests me to the point that myself and colleagues along with other agencies (I will leave nameless) did much extensive testing and chemical analysis breakdown of the raw components you sell to your vendors in the US.

Before you sell a product like that J&M Specialized Products Australian HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat, you should at least know what exactly is in the product and inform ALL users, sellers, dealers, distributors that the product contains abrasives and may be harmful to a barrel rifling if used.

I'm sure you already know that most people don't shoot very many rounds so they could easily go a lifetime of using this product on the bullets they hand-load and not even know or be aware of the negative affects of it's use. Most people would not even know to slug their barrels before and after use of your product. I'm sure people like you in other countries RELY on these facts for monetary profit.

After some time shooting bullets with your J&M HI-TEK-LUBE people would think they just have a crappy barrel and think the extreme leading and inaccuracy issues is just a barrel manufacturing issue BUT most likely was actually CAUSED by YOUR J&M HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat wearing away vital strata groove and land critical dimension surfaces. They will no longer be able to shoot cast lead bullets with awful leading issues from all the larguer dimensions in their barrels

You hide behind your computer screen in Australia peddling your product to unaware ignorant users and sellers of your "J&M HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat"

You stated your Australian government did "testing" LOL on your J&M HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat and your product has been used in Australia for twenty years". Why haven't you posted those lab conclusive unbiased results here, a link to them, or even a copy of them with your product ??

The Australian government huh ?? LOL ..this is the same government that accepts cash for laws, pardons, has corruption at it's finest and has some of the most restrictive GUN CONTROL laws on the planet. Even worse than the worst restrictive laws in the states.

Why don't you go to the states and have an UNBIASED lab (I'll be HAPPY to recommend one) do a completely UNBIASED test of your J&M HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat and then PUBLICIZE whether or not your J&M HI-TEK Supercoat is abrasives free and produces no TOXIC outgassing ?? The TRUTH would come out, that's why.

1) I have noticed, as many others have, you have completely REFUSED and FAILED miserably to answer ANY of my questions in this post.

2) You have FAILED to provide lawfully required MSDS sheets (which NEVER reveal chemical product secrets) and ARE REQUIRED BY LAWS in the states be provided.

3) You have REFUSED and FAILED to actually show unbiased PROOF to ANYONE ANYWHERE in the USA (with unbiased professional lab results) THAT your product does not contain damaging abrasives OR create toxic outgassing.

4) You have REFUSED and FAILED MISERABLY to prove or even attempt to show (with UNBIASED lab testing) that your product does not emit toxic outgassing, which in confined indoor ranges, would be detrimental to human health. You state that your J&M HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat is especially made and intended for indoor ranges.

SHOW us all the UNBIASED neutral party proof that your J&M HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat does not contain very well known carcinogens and outgassing neurotoxins when exposed to high temperature propellant charges that WILL be harmful to ANYONE (especially CHILDREN) in the immediate area where this product WILL BE used and mixed. Your J&M HI-TEK-LUBE is sold and used by average unaware and ignorant people in their homes who really have NO clue about handling DANGEROUS TOXIC and CARCINOGENIC compounds associated with your "HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat".

6) In this ENTIRE thread on this website you FAILED completely and MISERABLY to actually prove to everyone that you are earnestly and honestly selling a (in all aspects) SAFE product "Hi-TEK-LUBE" and benign coating BECAUSE you CAN'T possibly do that without the negative truths appearing and coming to light.

7) Your efforts, however, HAVE ALL been to COMPLETELY PROMOTE (for monetary profit) your J&M HI-TEK-LUBE and to sit there hiding behind your computer screen in Australia with your obvious multiple auxiliary troll account(s) talking to yourself and using all of them to get my account banned from posting real constructive truths and unbiased facts about your "J&M HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat".

Last time I checked, you were trying to SELL FOR PROFIT a high liability toxic component compound to American's. So, instead of trying to gag people here with your complaint(s) to get people banned from posting constructive questions and commentary regarding your J&M HI-TEK-LUBE like some kinda commie non-American dictator would do, why don't you just post your UNBIASED LABORATORY PROOF and make it PUBLIC on the WEB on a very PUBLIC website and then ANSWER ALL my questions in THIS post so we can dissect and construe any inaccuracies and/or untruths from it.

9) YOU seem to think American's should just TAKE YOUR WORD for it AND trust some Australian selling his "J&M HI-TEK-LUBE" from his safe place behind a computer screen from some auzzy outback and just believe the text that tumbles out your screen words from your auzzy hiding spot. NO. That's NOT how American's roll.

10) YOU-AS A MANUFACTURER of that extremely high liability product, selling it in the USA, have the burden of PROOF to show and prove to consumers, sellers, dealers, users, bullet coaters, shooting range owners ANY abrasives content, damaging and/or health risks (long or short term), which are BACKED by USA government standards of testing.

Don't attempt to beguile anyone. BACK and SHOW your "J&M HI-TEK-LUBE" product with written documented (AND USA MSDS SAFETY and EPA REQUIRED) laboratory UNBIASED lab results for this type of risky toxic component product AND prove to any/all users, sellers, dealers, importers, the governing EPA and ALL indoor shooting range owners THAT your "J&M HI-TEK-LUBE Supercoat" and it's chemical assembly is safe for firearms and humans alike.

klcarroll

02-16-2015, 04:11 PM

------------------

Obviously, you've decided to start a thread here and promote a product for profit on this website. I see no problem with that and would encourage anyone to do the same as long as they were actually doing that in all honesty and with good faith in all respects. You are here from another country posting in the USA. You're acting as a professional and owner for profit of your snake-oil "HITEK" coating as a "lube" (dry lubricant) of sorts for bullet projectiles. This site requires you to have the appropriate credentials to sell this product and act as it's lawful owner and accept all responsibilities as such.

Where exactly are your credentials to sell this product here in the USA ?

Where is the MSDS for this product ?

Where are the required EPA controlled lab results for it's use and safety ?

What legalities are you worried about associated with this product and it's use here in the USA ?

Are you worried you may be sued to hell because of falsities advertised of your foreign product that you refuse to publicize this product world-wide so you choose to keep a very low profile and hide in Australia and sell your snake-oil to other countries while evading any possible criminal or civil prosecution ?

Can you legally possess an FFL in the USA to sell and produce that product here ?

Do you have a criminal history you're worried about ?

You see, unbeknownst to you, there are people who know you and know your motives to beguile the end users of your product.

Extensive lab tests on your product have already been done and your product DOES contain barium sulfate and synthetic aluminum oxides. Your product is a modified and fluidized thermoset hybribized POWDER COATING that despite YOUR claims is YOUR "invention" (which it IS NOT ) DOES contain very highly refined and high quality abrasives.

YOUR product was tested in fourteen test barrels and after 22,000 rounds those barrels were significantly larger in groove and land measurements and all the normally sharp ridges surfaces where obviously rounded by way of lapping which could only occur if you were using a very fine abrasive.

You have obviously successfully managed to beguile many people into thinking your product is NOT a modified powder coating and is an "invention" of yours that will do no harm to a rifled barrel.

Ever wonder why your barrel is so damn shiny with easy cleaning after firing 1,500 rounds of that coating on bullets through a pistol barrel ? Yeah holmes, that's the abrasives doing what they do.

I have nothing to gain to post my truths. I have no interest to destroy anyone's reputation. I am not any competitor of yours. I couldn't care less about your successes or failures in life, nincompoop. But one of the many things I am is a chemical engineering guru and inventor of things that have been into outer space. Your product interests me to the point that myself and colleagues along with other agencies (I will leave nameless) did much extensive testing and chemical analysis breakdown of the raw components you sell to your vendors in the US.

Before you sell a product like that, you should at least know what exactly is in the product and inform ALL users, sellers, dealers, distributors that the product contains abrasives and may be harmful to a barrel rifling if used.

I'm sure you already know that most people don't shoot very many rounds so they could easily go a lifetime of using this product on the bullets they hand-load and not even know or be aware of the negative affects of it's use. Many people would not even know to slug their barrels before and after use of your product. I'm sure people like you in other countries RELY on these facts for monetary profit.

Listen Scooter; ....If you want to be taken seriously here, you're going about it in all the wrong ways!

Post your verifiable lab reports and stop with the slander! ......Otherwise you will just be seen as another "Mouth That Roars"!.