simple Hi-Tek coating

[Gremlin460]

fit a small motor outside the oven and extend the shaft and a small fan inside, viola!!! your own semi-convection oven..

My oven is a convection wall oven bought of AU-Ebay for $50, it will still be getting a additional fan to increase air flow.

[Eviltoy]

fit a small motor outside the oven and extend the shaft and a small fan inside, viola!!! your own semi-convection oven..

My oven is a convection wall oven bought of AU-Ebay for $50, it will still be getting a additional fan to increase air flow.

I am the worst person in the world when it comes to adding stuff to machinery lol

[Balta]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/24/9azu5y6u.jpg
Hardline in 147 .357, joy to work with, makes pretty projectiles.

Is this RED or Brown Copper colour?

[farmerjim]

It looks like my red copper, But I have yet to do brown.

[HI-TEK]

Is this RED or Brown Copper colour?


That is Brown Copper (Powdered HT version)
Has it passed all tests so far?
They look fairly good.
Would appreciate more results and details.
Thanks much

[Balta]

My first try of Brown Copper.Folowing instructions,using recomended ratios and hiere it is....
116626116627 This is 3 coats,baked..
This is 2 coat,baked
116628
I manage to get very nice,,even coverege with 2 coats so i think that 2 coats will be just fine..Need to shoot that to be sure,but for now it looks promising.Also,i think that Brown Copper HT powder is most similar color to jacked bullets...

[HI-TEK]

My first try of Brown Copper.Folowing instructions,using recomended ratios and hiere it is....
116626116627 This is 3 coats,baked..
This is 2 coat,baked
116628
I managed to get very nice,,even coverage with 2 coats so I think that 2 coats will be just fine..Need to shoot that to be sure, but for now it looks promising.Also, I think that Brown Copper HT powder is most similar color to jacked bullets...


They look great. When will you test shoot them?
In many cases, two even thin coats is more than adequate.
Did you do tests?
Have you sized any?
From what diameter before sizing and to what diameter after sizing?
Please post your results on your application.
Thanks much

[Gateway Bullets]

Ok guys, I have had multiple calls from customers stating this in my bullet coated with Hi-Tek. They said it left blue streaks inside the barrel along with sparking when it hit the backstop at the range.

It weighs 122gr, feels like powder coating, and was loaded into an aluminum case. I couldn't find my bullet puller so the marks on it are from the old handy dandy pliers! Lol

[Michael J. Spangler]

Shot another 350 or so 38s and a good 150 or so 45s tonight.
Lever gun and revolvers all spotless and shiny.
Gotta love hi-tek

[HI-TEK]

Ok guys, I have had multiple calls from customers stating this in my bullet coated with Hi-Tek. They said it left blue streaks inside the barrel along with sparking when it hit the backstop at the range.

It weighs 122gr, feels like powder coating, and was loaded into an aluminum case. I couldn't find my bullet puller so the marks on it are from the old handy dandy pliers! Lol



Very pretty, but unfortunately it is not the Hi-Tek coating.
Someone is yanking your chain....lol...lol:kidding:

I know you wished for Blue coloured coating, but fortunately, or unfortunately, there is no Hi-Tek blue coloured coating. :(

[Shotgundrums]

Ok guys, I have had multiple calls from customers stating this in my bullet coated with Hi-Tek. They said it left blue streaks inside the barrel along with sparking when it hit the backstop at the range.

It weighs 122gr, feels like powder coating, and was loaded into an aluminum case. I couldn't find my bullet puller so the marks on it are from the old handy dandy pliers! Lol

Sir, this ammo is made by Herter's and loaded by Blazer. It's a promo ammo that some sporting goods stores carry. I always see it at Cabelas. It's the same coating as the ol' Nyclad rounds by
Federal made.

[Shotgundrums]

Hi-Tek Joe, Trev
Any idea about the clear lube coating on the Hrbc.com.au website is?

[HI-TEK]

Hi-Tek Joe, Trev
Any idea about the clear lube coating on the Hrbc.com.au website is?

From what I understand, it may some sort of Varnish (not Hi-Tek).
It could have been the same one used to make the blue clear/transparent coating previously.
Are those products still being sold?
They do use Hi-Tek Black and Red Copper liquid types.

[Shotgundrums]

From what I understand, it may some sort of Varnish (not Hi-Tek).
It could have been the same one used to make the blue clear/transparent coating previously.
Are those products still being sold?
They do use Hi-Tek Black and Red Copper liquid types.

I'm not sure. I know they don't return emails. I once inquired about their
bullets long ago. They don't do US orders...be kinda neat to have just a
clear Hi-Tek coating though... That possible?
Josh

[HI-TEK]

I'm not sure. I know they don't return emails. I once inquired about their
bullets long ago. They don't do US orders...be kinda neat to have just a
clear Hi-Tek coating though... That possible?
Josh


Josh,

Hi-Tek coatings on baking, end up any where from yellow tan to golden brown, depending temperature & bake time.
None remain clear/colourless and transparent. Sorry.
I suppose, exporting coated Lead is very expensive and our alloys seem much more expensive here than in the US.
With USD/AUSD exchange rates as they are, it does not favor sending stuff to US when initial prices are already high.

[Shotgundrums]

Ok, ok....I was hopeful :violin: Nonetheless, let's be hopeful the blue color is lurking around the corner of discovery:)

[Moonman]

Trevor,
Looks like your police gathered up some CROC BAIT today.
Way to go AUSSIES, now throw the rest of them out of the country!

[Ausglock]

Trevor,
Looks like your police gathered up some CROC BAIT today.
Way to go AUSSIES, now throw the rest of them out of the country!

Yeah. These scum were planning on kidnapping a stranger off the streets and beheading them in the middle of the Sydney's "Martin Place" which is a large open air plaza in the Central Business District that is always full of people.
There is a lot of talk among gun owners on Aussie forums about CCW.......

[220]

Yeah. These scum were planning on kidnapping a stranger off the streets and beheading them in the middle of the Sydney's "Martin Place" which is a large open air plaza in the Central Business District that is always full of people.
There is a lot of talk among gun owners on Aussie forums about CCW.......

Before CCW is even considered we need self defence as a genuine reason for firearm ownership.
After yesterdays raids there is already some talk in the general media about how the 96 gun laws have disarmed the community and made us sitting ducks for this sort of scenario.

[Ausglock]

Yeah. I want my ColtAR15HBAR back. And SLR and HK91

[Gremlin460]

My wifes PTA arrived yesterday, her 1911 comes home Sunday... my toy is cleaned and ready.. If I understand correctly all governments class terrorists as targets, my licence says I am a target shooter, sooooooooo.......... the conection is obvious isn't it??

[Moonman]

Time for you AUSSIES to stand tall and demand more from your politicians.
Maybe get a few HOLLOWPOINTS coated up too!

[Ausglock]

I got a few 100 155gn HP Hornady's loaded and ready in 40S&W
As well as 185gn Flying Ashtrays for the 45 ACP.

[220]

Yeah. I want my ColtAR15HBAR back. And SLR and HK91
I'll settle for cheap SK's and ammo, weren't much good for anything but fun none the less.

[gunoil]

Iam shooting 115gr red hitek in my glock 42 with both eyes open and its very very great.


Christmas not to far.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zpsb347770d.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/null_zpsb347770d.jpg.html)

[HI-TEK]

Iam shooting 115gr red hitek in my glock 42 with both eyes open and its very very great.


Christmas not to far.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zpsb347770d.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/null_zpsb347770d.jpg.html)



They are pretty.
May be you can use them as decorations....lol...lol

[Moonman]

Shooting some dry powder 115 & 135's TEXAS TEA and Zombie Green, I really like the TEXAS TEA.

Keep showing them to folks at my club, some have been ordering some finished projectiles

from Bayou Bullets and SNS CASTING.

Started telling them that more and more FINISHED projectiles are being

offered by different vendors and they can use colors to designate loads.

Given time many more will follow as they see the advantages.

TOO BAD we don't have more reloading classes here, nobody want the LIABILITY

in this "SUE CRAZY" country.

Probably should QUIT graduating attorney's for about 25 years or so.

[Ausglock]

The Texas Tea seems to be popular..I might have to hit HI-TEK JOE up for a commission on sales.... :-)

[Eviltoy]

What does the texas tea powder look like

[Beagle333]

What does the texas tea powder look like
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?204174-simple-Hi-Tek-coating/page197&highlight=texas+tea

Black with gold flecks in it.
See post 3931

[Eviltoy]

Awesome thanks

[Ausglock]

It is Black with a gold fleck through it.

[Eviltoy]

I thought I might have that powder but I think its plain black cant see any speckles

[HI-TEK]

I thought I might have that powder but I think its plain black cant see any speckles


You obtained the straight Black, and that is why you cant see Gold flecks in coating.
The product is called Texas Tea, (Black Gold). There is small quantity in US with Gateway.

[Moonman]

It's Black with Gold Specks, Looks great in a nickel case.(Texas Tea)

I received my Dry Powder Texas Tea from Gateway Bullets.

Easier to mix up a batch than the LIQUIDS.

[10mmShooter]

Hi Guys,

Well my liter of green liquid HiTek w/ext cat2 is coming Monday,I stopped today at Wally World and picked up this Oster convection TSSTTVDFL1(what a model number) anyway it cost$70 USD didn't really want to spend more than that I just couldn't justify $250 for the Boville one.I brought it inside to run a shake down test,it holds 400 F easily, actually by the thermometer inside its running 425 F, I'll run a max temp test later at 450F but it appears to have accurate enough thermostat and sufficient wattage at 1500 watts.

any hooooo a couple of questions for the experts, the rack is14 in x 11 in,, so its fairly large for a toaster oven. I'm making my hardware cloth baskets to fit inside, and had planned to only run 100.44 mag bullets per run,at 255g each thats about 3.6 pounds per run.I believe could fit about 150-200. So you guys with similar size trays how many 44/45 bullets are you running per run???


I also understand that the drying after the first coat is applied prior to 1st bake is a critical step, so how long is really needed some are saying as little as 10mins warming on the top of the oven, some say to let dry overnight?? What is a good time would 1 hour dry time prior to first bake be enough ??? assuming a low humidity environment and what about drying time after 2 nd coat how long should the 2nd coat dry prior to 2nd bake??

Sorryfor all the questions, I just want todo the best I can with new process.

116892

[Gremlin460]

Nice little oven. Do not be afraid to ask, HT process is very simple and easy to get right, but it is also easy to get wrong as well. Most of the guys on this thread will be more than happy to help out. That being said, and after looking at your oven picture, I can only advise when *I* would do. Firstly I would locate some clay bricks to line the bottom of the oven with, stand on edge and leave a air gap between them.

Your oven is rated at 1500w, mine originally was rated at 2200w and I found it struggled during tray swaps to climb back up to temp. The bricks act as heat soaks, they take head from the air until they too are at 200c, when you open the door and dump the first tray of casts in, the bricks release heat into the now cooler interior and assist the element in climbing back to target temp. This method just means you turn the oven on 30 mins before you want to cook, to allow the bricks to come to temp. Also with first time bricks, heat to temp for a hour to allow them to release any moisture they may have.

Drying time.... depends on your outdoor temp, 1st coat will feel dry after 5 mins, but don't be fooled, the outer "skin" may be dry, but not all the way to the lead. I highly suggest for you first 2-3 times you dry overnight. Once you have seen how they look when dried correctly and baked once, then you can shorten the drying time and you will notice when you are cutting it too close by the look of the coating.
Here in AU I dry for 90 mins to 2 hours in the sun if I NEED the casts in a hurry, other than that I leave overnight.

I have actually coated and dried then stored in a open box for a week before baking if just topping up stock levels.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope it has helped you on your quest.....

[10mmShooter]

Thanks Gremlin I will follow your advise, also you guys down under are 240v right?? so 2200w/240 = roughly 10 amps, in US are 120v so 1500w/120v= about 11 amps so our units should have similar heat output based on current draw, so I'll do the paver brick thing, could I use large lead ingots as heat sinks?? or should I use pavers??

[sierra1911]

10mmShooter
I have the larger Oster convection oven and learned that even in convection mode, it cycles the heating element on and off while climbing back to temperature after the boolits are added. On my first attempt I thoroughly preheated the oven to 400F and put in my tray of 7.5 lbs of 45 boolits. Fortunately, I had a thermometer on the tray to indicate the actual temperature. After 5 minutes it had reached 300F and after another 3 min it had only reached 350F and had almost stopped increasing. Even though the convection air circulation should keep the oven element from overheating, the oven was cycling on and off, preventing the temperature from promptly recovering. After a few attempts, I learned to increase the oven setting to 450 after inserting the bullets and leave it there for 5-6 min to lessen the 'off' times of the cycling. At the end of 5-6 minutes the internal temp was 390F and I reduced the oven setting to 400 to complete the baking. I now have a meat thermometer with an external alarm which I set to beep when the internal temp reaches 390F so that I can change the oven setting from 450F to 400F. One of these days I'll replace the oven control with a PID and insulate the back of the oven which is just a thin sheet of plated steel - no insulation whatsoever!

[10mmShooter]

Thanks for the heads up Sierra, I have the thermometer inside too, so I'll be playing close attention to recovery time after I insert the my tray of bullets I'll be ready to make manual adjustments too.

Heres a of my tray with 100 .44 bullets on it.... roughly 3.5 lbs, for my first run I'm only going to do 100 bullets in case of a failure. I think once my process is down, assuming the oven can keep up. I think I have room on the tray for 150 .44 bullets at 5.2 pounds, assuming the oven is capable of maintaining 400F with that weight of lead inside.

I'm ready to try the brick paver to trick to if I need to level out the temps and ad recovery.

116952

[Ausglock]

The paver blocks do work. Make sure they do not touch the heating elements.

A lot of the small oven thermos are not accurate. I bake at 200 Deg C but the little therm only shows 150.
A digi therm with a K sensor probe gives better and more reliable readings.
It is better to over bake than under bake. over bake will give a darker colour. under bake will give wipe off fail. so a little extra time is better than not enough.
Start with 200Deg C for 12 minutes. at 6 minutes take the tray out. Shake them around and return to the oven for the last 6 minutes.
I find that for 250 9mm bullets I bake for 10 minutes. for 200 45 bullets, I bake at 12 minutes due to the larger metal loading. Play with it and see how you go.

I'm trying something new today that may change the entire way we use this coating.

[1845greyhounds]

Rather than using bricks, which can hold moisture, I suggest using lead ingots. Alternatively, a tray of naked, sacrificial boolits will work.

[waltham41]

I suggest using lead ingots.

I was just about to ask this.... if you do use lead ingots will the multiple heating /cooling ruin them as far as making boolits out of them?

[1845greyhounds]

I doubt it. It's not like the Sn or Sb or Pb is going to evaporate at 400F. I'm trying it right now, if disaster strikes, I'll post about it.

[Shotgundrums]

I use that same Oster oven. The temp in mine is not accurate to the displayed setting. I put my lead thermometer in it when I'm warming it up. I have to turn it on to 410-415 to get it to the right temp. The temp swing is between 380-400. Good enough for the coatings. When it's first warming up, temp gets up to 450...then falls to a more suitable temp in about 15 minutes. And, I use the 'bake' setting. I found this to be better than the roast setting which had wild highs and lows because it uses all four element in full effect. Bake time for me is around 10minutes. I set the timer on my phone. Oven is always on an hour time setting. I very quickly snag one bullet out of the oven with needle nose pliers. Cool it and test. If it wipes good and smashes good I'll take the rest out. Good luck!!

[dsa]

The paver blocks do work. Make sure they do not touch the heating elements.

A lot of the small oven thermos are not accurate. I bake at 200 Deg C but the little therm only shows 150.
A digi therm with a K sensor probe gives better and more reliable readings.
It is better to over bake than under bake. over bake will give a darker colour. under bake will give wipe off fail. so a little extra time is better than not enough.
Start with 200Deg C for 12 minutes. at 6 minutes take the tray out. Shake them around and return to the oven for the last 6 minutes.
I find that for 250 9mm bullets I bake for 10 minutes. for 200 45 bullets, I bake at 12 minutes due to the larger metal loading. Play with it and see how you go.

I'm trying something new today that may change the entire way we use this coating.

Looking forward to hearing about this.

[Gremlin460]

Let me clarify my brick option...

In a perfect world, we should be using ovens that sit at 200c regardless of what we do, how often we open the door, how much cold metal we introduce etc etc... but we don't live in a perfect world.
Also we try to do this on the cheap, which is not a bad thing, just means we have to get creative!

Copper blocks would be the ideal medium to use but the pavers work well as substitutes, my oven is still over 100c 45 mins after being unplugged from the wall.

I use a old wall oven, its rated @ 2200w according the sticker on the back. it worked ok for the first 15-20k I coated, I learnt it's bad points and worked around them. I then used the clay bricks, that stopped a LOT of temp fluxuation and dropped recovery time by more than 35% (remember we only talking 10.5 mins) So that was a large gain.

I then ripped the element out of the grill, which this oven had, its also rated at 2200w and fitted it into the bottom of the oven. Very easy job I will add. Here is a pic.
117006

Next I replaced the bricks which turned out to be the perfect size :-
117007117008117009

to assist in better temp control a 40amp SSR and a PID was fitted and left to run in self learn mode. The oven now locks itself to 201c and cycles itself there. recovery time is fast, I also use a DVM and K sensor to check the PID isn't lying to me and the numbers climb fast compared to day 1 before the mods. My coating colours are darker than I used to get, not because they are over cooked, but because they are now cooked correctly. Here is PID and SSR :-
117010117011

Total cost, everything included was less than $100 aud.

hope this helps...

[Redwoode]

"I'm trying something new today that may change the entire way we use this coating."

This sounds intriguing Trevor. Hopefully it works and will apply to liquids and powder.

[Gremlin460]

"I'm trying something new today that may change the entire way we use this coating."

This sounds intriguing Trevor. Hopefully it works and will apply to liquids and powder.

Doubt it Redwoode, Trev is trying you pour the coating down the barrel and using the heat from the gunpowder to flash cook it... I think he has found Joes stash of double malt scotch!!

[Ausglock]

HA... No. I'm gunna try mixing liquid and powder coatings together for unique colours.

[Redwoode]

I've mixed equal parts red copper liquid with 2 extreme catalyst and brown copper powder. Of course the resulting color wasn't dramatically different but did get more glossy final finish and held up to sizing great. Passed wipe and crush tests no problem. Couldn't make a blue or Kryptonite Green.

[Ausglock]

No. not mixed like that. This is a bit more intricate.

[Shotgundrums]

117067
Two coats of green and one coat of brown copper gave an almost tarnished copper jacket look.
I smell another thread.

[redrockant]

I dont know if mixing colours is such a good idea. Perhaps Joe can help out.

[HI-TEK]

I dont know if mixing colours is such a good idea. Perhaps Joe can help out.

Thanks guys.
Mixing colours can be a bit of a trial and error.
Often, it is not that easy to predict what colour you end up with.
Sometimes, one colour seems to dominate another and you do get unexpected colours.
Technically, there should not be a problem with mixing, but, trying to determine ratios to get a target colour is simply playing with them, and keeping accurately measured ratios, if you hit onto a colour that you like and want to reproduce results.
All the catalysts are interchangeable (liquids), and, with powders, they should be all compatible as well.
Happy mad scientists and see how you go.....

[Gremlin460]

Show them the striped coating you are developing Trev!, I think its amazing...

[Hebegebes]

Hello all,
I do not post much but I have using the Hi-Tek liquid gold with great success. This stuff is great. I do have one guestion that perhaps someone can answer for me. After casting bullets, I store them in plastic jars with a screw on lid. How long can they be stored this way before coating? I have cast some two months ago that I am just now getting a chance to coat.

thanks in advance

[Ausglock]

I have bullets that have been cast for over 12 months that have been stored in open top buckets. Still coat fine.

Gremlin..... shhhhhhh. You will spoil the surprise.:D

[ChaplainJohn]

Show them the striped coating you are developing Trev!, I think its amazing...
Hey Trev, if you come up with a proper red and white candy cane stripe let me know... I want some boolits with Father, Son & Holy Spirit stripes for all those unclean things out there.

[kryogen]

so, anyone in canada sells your hi tek?

[HI-TEK]

so, anyone in canada sells your hi tek?


No not as yet.
There is an opening for someone there.

[Ausglock]

Hey Trev, if you come up with a proper red and white candy cane stripe let me know... I want some boolits with Father, Son & Holy Spirit stripes for all those unclean things out there.

The red/copper actually has traces of Pig's Blood in it.
I sell bullets coated with it as "Infidel Projectiles".
Praise the Lord and pass the Infidel Projectiles....

[Stephen Cohen]

Funny you should say that Ausglock, I had a middle Eastern guy here last month trying to sell a mobile service and he saw me packing red copper 45s, I told him they were coated in pigs blood and baked he would not touch them lol.

The red/copper actually has traces of Pig's Blood in it.
I sell bullets coated with it as "Infidel Projectiles".
Praise the Lord and pass the Infidel Projectiles....

[Ausglock]

Outstanding!!!!!!

[Moonman]

LOVE IT, here's to Pig's Blood RED Pills!!!!!

[Balta]

Little experimenting with brown copper powder mixed with same black...4 to 1 ratio..Left batch is result ,right side is brown copper.
117165

[HI-TEK]

Little experimenting with brown copper powder mixed with some black...4 to 1 ratio..Left batch is result ,right side is brown copper.
117165


You have really got this down to a fine art.
Products look great.
Your colour experimentation seems to work OK, and I like the darker coloured Brown Copper you got with your mixed colour.
Now that you have used them, what do you think of the products?

[Balta]

You have really got this down to a fine art.
Products look great.
Your colour experimentation seems to work OK, and I like the darker coloured Brown Copper you got with your mixed colour.
Now that you have used them, what do you think of the products?
You know that a like HiTek,Joe :) very much..

[gunoil]

Hehehe! l told em it was virgin blood. LMAO.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/d50f42a6.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/d50f42a6.jpg.html)

world class infidel here.

[10mmShooter]

Hi Guys,

Finally got to run my first couple batches through the oven, I have thermometer and was going to run my oven at 425 to make sure it held good temp, well it was a bit to good, my first to 2 batches were nearly gold in color, but they did pass the rub and smash.

I dialed the temp back to dead on 400 degrees at 10min, and my batch of 10mm 200g bullets looks okay?? I was very careful to go light my 1 st coat and overnight dry, the phone camera is ****, but as you can see they are very light green in color, notice a couple are more gold in color they were in a hot spot in the oven.

I gave them there second coat and they are drying overnight to bake tomorrow evening, with the 2nd coat applied they appear darker emerald green as expected.

So ....should I go a bit heavier on the first coat or stay were I'm at??

117391

[Ausglock]

Stay. Don't change anything.
The gold ones are from hot spots in your oven. If you take them out at the 5 minute mark and give them a shake. then turn the tray 90degrees and put the tray back in. this seems to even out the colour.

[Love Life]

^^WHat he said. Oh, and PC sucks.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Ok so after some mid to hot loads in my 45-70 I'm noticing a dark colored fouling in the bore. This was teamed up with above average smoke when shooting. (Though they were stout loads that might *** to it) Doesn't appear to be leading and cleaned out easily.
Could that be from improperly cured first coat? Maybe some coating adhering to the bore?
Either way after a couple dozen hot loads it cleaned out with a couple passes of a brush.
Has anyone else noticed anything like this?

[Redwoode]

Quick bullet sizing question with hi-tek. Have a new Kahr p380 that slugs consistently at .355. Using cast ww with Lee hardness 11-12 coated with metallic color hi-tek. Would you size casts the traditional .356? Any thoughts about going .357?

[Ausglock]

Try a handfull at each size and see what works the best.
one of my 38 supers likes .356 the other likes .357. both barrels are .355.

[HI-TEK]

Ok so after some mid to hot loads in my 45-70 I'm noticing a dark colored fouling in the bore. This was teamed up with above average smoke when shooting. (Though they were stout loads that might *** to it) Doesn't appear to be leading and cleaned out easily.
Could that be from improperly cured first coat? Maybe some coating adhering to the bore?
Either way after a couple dozen hot loads it cleaned out with a couple passes of a brush.
Has anyone else noticed anything like this?

How are you doing?
To try and answer your questions and observations, can you please advise which coloured coating you had used?
Also, please keep in mind, that when the coating is heat cured correctly, it does not fuse, melt with hot loads. Additional heat will in fact make coating harder, not softer, so it is unlikely that you had coating deposits inside barrel..
If coating was not cured adequately, the heat would activate coating and it will bond to barrel, and you will find it very difficult to remove.
However from your advice, you seemed to have easily cleaned out the residues, so it suggests that it may have not been coating deposits.
Deposits inside barrel can be powder residues, and, no Leading also suggests that coating held up.
I cant explain why you would have above average smoke levels.

[10mmShooter]

Okay Guys,

Here are the official first runs of .44 and 10mm. I used very two thin coats of green with overnight drying, my ratio was 5-1-8 (8 acetone) to make sure I didn't go too heavy, looks to me like I may be a bit too thin in my coats?? I ran 100 round batches at 9 mins, my oven seems to heat fine, I have a thermometer inside it was solid 400F for 9mins, I think I may need to go to 8 minutes. The bullets are slick to the touch and pass smash and rub, I'm getting a little spolchly-ness, not sure how to fix that, I not going to do a third coat, cosmetically they might look better but I think it be a waste of product. Not sure why the .44 round noses, seem to have a more even finish??

Comments or critiques to improve appearances?? thanks

117466



117467

[Michael J. Spangler]

I'm using the liquid gold from bayou. Purchased about a year ago.
Not sure what it could be. It didn't seem that it was leading as I could still see the rifling nice and crisp. I doubt it was coating as I remember smash testing a handful of this batch.
I'll have to load some more and try to get a decent picture of the fouling.

[HI-TEK]

Okay Guys,

Here are the official first runs of .44 and 10mm. I used very two thin coats of green with overnight drying, my ratio was 5-1-8 (8 acetone) to make sure I didn't go too heavy, looks to me like I may be a bit too thin in my coats?? I ran 100 round batches at 9 mins, my oven seems to heat fine, I have a thermometer inside it was solid 400F for 9mins, I think I may need to go to 8 minutes. The bullets are slick to the touch and pass smash and rub, I'm getting a little spolchly-ness, not sure how to fix that, I not going to do a third coat, cosmetically they might look better but I think it be a waste of product. Not sure why the .44 round noses, seem to have a more even finish??

Comments or critiques to improve appearances?? thanks

117466



117467


They look great to me.
My only observations are that some (few) are more Yellow looking.
That is normally associated with hot spots in oven. It is easily cured by taking out tray at half way point, and shake and return tray to next half of cook.
Roughness, may be simply that coating was starting to dry before placing onto drying mesh.
This tends to leave small lumps, (touch marks), which do not level and flow out with baking.
After two coats, and with sizing, all bearing surfaces should be polished and glassy smooth.
Other areas, this appearance is not problematic, only that its is not so smooth and shiny.
You are doing just fine.
If it shoots well, it is all a bonus......

[Stephen Cohen]

gunoil, where did you find a virgin, they are rarer than rocking horse poop.

[Ausglock]

10mm. use a tad more coating and the blotchyness will dissappear.
Use 6mls of mixed coating to 2.5Kg (5Lbs) of bullets.

[10mmShooter]

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to report back on hardness, after coating my bullets checked out at .060 to .061 with the Lee tester, this is roughly 13-14 BHN, this is exactly the same hardness as they stared with prior to baking, I do not water drop as I load for pistols only.

So the heat of two cycles at 400F had no effect on the alloy hardness.

[Avenger442]

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to report back on hardness, after coating my bullets checked out at .060 to .061 with the Lee tester, this is roughly 13-14 BHN, this is exactly the same hardness as they stared with prior to baking, I do not water drop as I load for pistols only.

So the heat of two cycles at 400F had no effect on the alloy hardness.

That is what I have found in my test.
Also found if you heat treat before you coat you return to about the original hardness of the lead before heat treat after the coating process(my alloy).
Because I load for rifle and pistol I had tried several different ways to harden the lead. My wheel weight plus 2% tin is 13-14 BHN about seven days after cast. If I water dropped after the last coat it goes to 16-17. If I want in the 20s BHN I have to use a more expensive alloy.
Believe, but have no testing to prove, that the Gold 1035 liquid coating with 2-Extreme cat I have been using will actually let me exceed the pressure that a normal 16 BHN will take with another lube. Some of my rifle loads have approached max with no leading.
:castmine:

[Pyrex]

Well, I did my first coating today. It went pretty smooth. Getting all the necessary tools and appliances was the hardest part. I'm pretty sure I burned the first few batches, the coating came out copper colored and darker. It passed all the tests, just didn't look gold. I started to get a lighter color when I added more acetone. It's pretty hot here still in texas and zero humidity, so the acetone was drying before I could get the coating in the lube grooves (was sticking to my mixing bowl in about 10 seconds), some of the bullets were not coated. After that they did come out gold, but I'm getting a rougher texture. Am I using too much color? I tried running it thin, but I ended up having to do three coats, and it was the same texture as two thicker. I'd like to get a glass like finish like some of you. Any tips?

http://i.imgur.com/jCUMOi6.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/X4AJ6tX.jpg?1

[1845greyhounds]

Pyrex, the rough texture shouldn't hurt anything. But if you want to avoid it, don't continue to tumble past the point that the coating dries. With your weather conditions, try coating inside a sealed jar. Sealing the jar will reduce the solvent evaporation rate, thus allowing you longer wet coating time.

Similarly, warm boolits cause the solvent to evaporate quickly, resulting in rough coatings. I try to coat room temp boolits.

[HI-TEK]

Well, I did my first coating today. It went pretty smooth. Getting all the necessary tools and appliances was the hardest part. I'm pretty sure I burned the first few batches, the coating came out copper colored and darker. It passed all the tests, just didn't look gold. I started to get a lighter color when I added more acetone. It's pretty hot here still in texas and zero humidity, so the acetone was drying before I could get the coating in the lube grooves (was sticking to my mixing bowl in about 10 seconds), some of the bullets were not coated. After that they did come out gold, but I'm getting a rougher texture. Am I using too much color? I tried running it thin, but I ended up having to do three coats, and it was the same texture as two thicker. I'd like to get a glass like finish like some of you. Any tips?

http://i.imgur.com/jCUMOi6.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/X4AJ6tX.jpg?1


Just a few quick question?
In what guns will you be using these coated alloys, (speed, load etc).
I noticed that they seemed gas checked.
Just curious as to why, if you are using these in normal loads?

[Pyrex]

Just a few quick question?
In what guns will you be using these coated alloys, (speed, load etc).
I noticed that they seemed gas checked.
Just curious as to why, if you are using these in normal loads?

I shoot these 440gr at 1650fps out of my 500 magnum. 35gr Lilgun. I'm not sure if I can shoot these not gas checked with the coating, I've always gas checked them, and I get a little bit of leading. I'm going to try it checked, see if I can keep the bore clean, if so I'll try a few without a gas check and see what happens.

[Pyrex]

Pyrex, the rough texture shouldn't hurt anything. But if you want to avoid it, don't continue to tumble past the point that the coating dries. With your weather conditions, try coating inside a sealed jar. Sealing the jar will reduce the solvent evaporation rate, thus allowing you longer wet coating time.

Similarly, warm boolits cause the solvent to evaporate quickly, resulting in rough coatings. I try to coat room temp boolits.

Ah, that's a really good point. That's probably what's causing the rough texture. Problem is 10 seconds of tumbling isn't enough to get the bullets lubed well, at least that's what I'm seeing. I'm letting the bullets cool to air temp, not coating them hot. I tried to tumble them sealed, but the container popped and sprayed me with lube, not too fun. With this heat it expands too quickly.

[HI-TEK]

Ah, that's a really good point. I'm letting the bullets cool to air temp, not coating them hot. I tried to tumble them sealed, but the container popped and sprayed me with lube, not too fun. With this heat it expands too quickly.

Just simply add more acetone to mix so that it stays wet a little longer whilst shaking/tumbling coats.
Then simply dump on drying surface, and don't disturb, and dry well before cooking.
If solvent/coating mixture is thinned, it will coat well and will still dry quickly after coating.
You are not adding more coating, but adding more solvent to help with slowing drying rate.
Let us know how you go.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Any tips?

MEK (methyl ethyl keytone) evaporates slightly slower than Acetone. Denatured Alcohol dries even slower. I personally not used the alcohol as I never had a reason to, but I do know of a couple of folks who have used it successfully.

http://i.imgur.com/jCUMOi6.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/X4AJ6tX.jpg?1[/QUOTE]

[Ausglock]

I use MEK for the same reason. Slower drying and gives more time for even coating.

[atygrit]

117822117823117824117825117826

I have had nothing but problems with this coating and I realize this is a learning process, but I got frustrated with it and decided to just buy some bullets that have already been coated to test out in my guns.

I had some of the coating come off on my 45 ACP barrel, but NOTHING compared to my XDM 9mm barrel. I keep reading that people shoot 100 rounds and their barrels are perfect except for a little carbon. Obviously I don't have "just carbon" in my 9mm barrel.

Are these smash and wipe tests acceptable? With the exception of the smash test, these are the same results that I was getting with my own cast and coated bullets. The 9mm barrel is with 100 rounds through it and it looks exactly the same as my own cast and coated and I'm VERY frustrated because it is going to take me a while to get the coating out (or at least what I believe is the coating).

I'm using 4.3 grains of HP 38 with a 125 grain 9mm bullet.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks for any help.

[HI-TEK]

117822117823117824117825117826

I have had nothing but problems with this coating and I realize this is a learning process, but I got frustrated with it and decided to just buy some bullets that have already been coated to test out in my guns.

I had some of the coating come off on my 45 ACP barrel, but NOTHING compared to my XDM 9mm barrel. I keep reading that people shoot 100 rounds and their barrels are perfect except for a little carbon. Obviously I don't have "just carbon" in my 9mm barrel.

Are these smash and wipe tests acceptable? With the exception of the smash test, these are the same results that I was getting with my own cast and coated bullets. The 9mm barrel is with 100 rounds through it and it looks exactly the same as my own cast and coated and I'm VERY frustrated because it is going to take me a while to get the coating out (or at least what I believe is the coating).

I'm using 4.3 grains of HP 38 with a 125 grain 9mm bullet.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks for any help.

All details suggest/indicate, inadequate baking and possibly also inadequate drying before baking.
There should not be any solvent wipe off, and flaking indicates dry coat after bake but not fused/bonded to alloy surface.
From where did you get commercially coated projectiles to test?

[atygrit]

That is what I was thinking could be the issue, but I have an email in to the commercial caster, so I don't want to say at this time.

[Pyrex]

yep, more acetone and dropping them on the drying tray before they get tacky solved my issue. Now they look like better.

http://i.imgur.com/fJs0i5N.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/Cje4yfU.jpg?2

117833
GOOOOLLLLLLDDDDD!!

[jayjay1]

Could someone please tell me the current colours, that are available?

I like the Red Apple Candy, seems to be easier to handle with.
Which colours are similiar to it (metallic view)?


P.S.:
Thanks to Joe for the great product.

[HI-TEK]

Could someone please tell me the current colours, that are available?

I like the Red Apple Candy, seems to be easier to handle with.
Which colours are similiar to it (metallic view)?


P.S.:
Thanks to Joe for the great product.


Thanks jayjay1.

Many do like the Candy apple red colour. It is a metallic Red with Gold flecks.
There are too many colours, and it is not possible to post each colour on products.
I will try to post the Candy Apple picture and I hope I can do it.117840

[Ausglock]

They look familiar .......

[HI-TEK]

Could someone please tell me the current colours, that are available?

I like the Red Apple Candy, seems to be easier to handle with.
Which colours are similiar to it (metallic view)?


P.S.:
Thanks to Joe for the great product.


Attached is more colours DDRed, Gold 1035, and Zombie Green

117844117845117846

[HI-TEK]

They look familiar .......


They should look familiar,.... that is the ones secured by my security team, to prevent copy cats taking them to try and reproduce......lol

[Ausglock]

This is how you smash test.

http://vid193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/smash/2013-12-28_17-15-27_487.mp4

http://vid193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/smash/2013-12-28_17-28-54_197.mp4

http://vid193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/smash/2013-12-28_17-17-32_574.mp4

[Gremlin460]

Joe can you send me some candy apple red please..and some cat.. you still got my addy?

[jayjay1]

Thanks so far.

I don´t know why but my candy apple red looks like a brown red.
I don´t think that it is about temperature or baking time, because temp is dead on 200°C (measured) and the colour turns to brown right from the start in the oven, so.
But they do the hammer and the wipe-off test, are flying very nicely, so I don´t care.

But your candy red looks like yummy-yummy, makes me want to suck some candy...
:razz:

[jayjay1]

This is how you smash test.

http://vid193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/smash/2013-12-28_17-15-27_487.mp4

http://vid193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/smash/2013-12-28_17-28-54_197.mp4

http://vid193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/smash/2013-12-28_17-17-32_574.mp4


Hey Ausglock,
you said "coated twice ten minutes" in the first video.

I do 12 minutes 200°C.

Are ten minutes enough?
At which temperature do you back´em?

:drinks:

[Ausglock]

200deg C for 10 minutes.
The reds get 12 minutes.
Red Copper gets 10 minutes.

[jayjay1]

So Brown Copper is 10 minutes and Candy Apple gets 12 minutes, correct?

[Ausglock]

yep.
Remember if you do not have 2Kg of alloy on your tray, you might be over baking. Light metal load will not need that long as the metal will heat up faster than if it were a full tray.

[jayjay1]

Thanks a lot, Ausglock, keep on doing the good work inhere!
[smilie=s:

[Avenger442]

117823117825

I have had nothing but problems with this coating and I realize this is a learning process, but I got frustrated with it and decided to just buy some bullets that have already been coated to test out in my guns.

I had some of the coating come off on my 45 ACP barrel, but NOTHING compared to my XDM 9mm barrel. I keep reading that people shoot 100 rounds and their barrels are perfect except for a little carbon. Obviously I don't have "just carbon" in my 9mm barrel.

Are these smash and wipe tests acceptable? With the exception of the smash test, these are the same results that I was getting with my own cast and coated bullets. The 9mm barrel is with 100 rounds through it and it looks exactly the same as my own cast and coated and I'm VERY frustrated because it is going to take me a while to get the coating out (or at least what I believe is the coating).

I'm using 4.3 grains of HP 38 with a 125 grain 9mm bullet.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks for any help.


Most of us have had failures of one kind or another with the coating. I'll bet that even Ausglock can tell us about a few times he got frustrated. I recently coated some 45s got in a hurry with the dry time and had smash failure that looked a little worse than your photo on the left. They are waiting to be re-cast. I have had some smash test that very small flakes (almost dust) came off of edge of the lead loaded them and fired them with no problems.

I haven't had a wipe test failure yet. But I tend toward the over cook because I care less about color. My Gold 1035 is darker than the photos posted.

I don't shoot as many rounds down range as the guys who shoot mainly pistol. But, so far, 100s of rounds with rifle barrels that look like the gun hasn't been fired after a couple of dry patch passes.

Sorry your having issues but Don't get discouraged. You can do it. Keep trying.

[jayjay1]

Don't get discouraged. You can do it. Keep trying.

That´s correct, if I can, everyone will...
:mrgreen:

I´m sure you did something wrong with drying or have used a wrong formula, etc..

Follow the directions exactly and it will work.

[gunoil]

seems l just want hitek thru my barrels only, over copper plated. No copper fouling. huh? What u think?

[Ausglock]

A commercial bullet maker in Oz has been coating copper plated pills.
Far cleaner barrel with less elbow grease needed to clean the barrel.

I have some and they work.

[Redwoode]

Trevor, ready to give an update or mad scientist still at work?: "I'm trying something new today that may change the entire way we use this coating."

Thanks

[gunoil]

Thanks ausglock, l love my barrels. My barrels love hitek coating. I dont like shootin paint either.

[Ausglock]

Trevor, ready to give an update or mad scientist still at work?: "I'm trying something new today that may change the entire way we use this coating."

Thanks

Didn't work... Back to the drawing board and the melting pot...

[Redwoode]

With red copper liquid is it normal to have a very light gold color after curing the first coat? Then, the red copper really comes on in second and third coats. Anything darker than very light gold after one coat and the finished color is metallic brown. I just can't lose the gold entirely and get to red after first coat.

[Redwoode]

Cured at 385 degrees for 10 mins shaken at 5 mins. PID oven control. Very pale gold almost champagne color.

[Pyrex]

I don't do the 5 minute shake, my oven drops temp too much.

[HI-TEK]

With red copper liquid is it normal to have a very light gold color after curing the first coat? Then, the red copper really comes on in second and third coats. Anything darker than very light gold after one coat and the finished color is metallic brown. I just can't lose the gold entirely and get to red after first coat.

How are you doing?

Just a couple of things.
The Red Copper made up from liquid or Powder, does require very very good pre-mixing, before decanting and coating. The Red particles do settle on to the bottom tightly, if coating, or mixture is left for a while.
It takes quite a bit of effort to make sure that all is re-suspended in solvent system, before use.
Second, the coating resin by itself does develop a Golden Tan colour. The more it is baked, the darker the "golden" shade will turn, going towards Tan.
If you do not have enough Red Copper particles adequately mixed in, the results you seem to be observing would be typical, and not detrimental, as once coating is heat cured it will still work OK, but finish will be more golden than Red Copper.
Laying two or three thin coats will add more Red Copper with each layer, but the resin will dominate final colour due to less Red Copper particles in the coating.
Hope I answered your question.

[Redwoode]

Thanks Joe, good insight. I am shaking the c_ap out of it after reading you and Trev's many mentions of same. Can see a definite pink blush on the casts after drying before hitting the oven first time. This was fresh mixed into glass bottle so I can see full suspension through bottom before coating casts.

What would upping the ratio to say 6 color, 1 2-extreme and 8 MEK do? Maybe more available color particles and more slower drying solvent to get it onto the pills? Just a thought.

[Redwoode]

Sorry... doing just great. Thanks for asking. Love working with your hi-tek.

[HI-TEK]

Thanks Joe, good insight. I am shaking the c_ap out of it after reading you and Trev's many mentions of same. Can see a definite pink blush on the casts after drying before hitting the oven first time. This was fresh mixed into glass bottle so I can see full suspension through bottom before coating casts.

What would upping the ratio to say 6 color, 1 2-extreme and 8 MEK do? Maybe more available color particles and more slower drying solvent to get it onto the pills? Just a thought.


Your suggested mixture seems OK, especially if you are in an area, where there is plenty of heat and low humidity. Adding extra solvent really does not hurt, it simply gives you more coverage with thinner coating which will dry more quickly, and be also smooth.
Again, do not shake coat until it gets sticky. Coat, so it just coats, then dump on drying mesh or tray and dont disturb..
Happy coating.
Please post your results after your most recent production with suggestions.

[HI-TEK]

Sorry... doing just great. Thanks for asking. Love working with your hi-tek.

Thanks much.
I am glad it is working out for you.
Joe

[2wheelDuke]

I got back around to trying some Hi Tek again today. I coated up some .30cal 155gr Lee spitzers for the .300blk and maybe the .308, and some 250gr Keiths for the .44mag with gold.

I mixed it up 5:1:7 coat:catalyst:acetone, measured with a syringe after shaking well.

After being coated twice and baked twice, both styles passed 30 seconds of scrubbing against acetone and the smash test. It always feels nice to see them pass the tests.

Now for sizing, loading, and range testing.

[HI-TEK]

I got back around to trying some Hi Tek again today. I coated up some .30cal 155gr Lee spitzers for the .300blk and maybe the .308, and some 250gr Keiths for the .44mag with gold.

I mixed it up 5:1:7 coat:catalyst:acetone, measured with a syringe after shaking well.

After being coated twice and baked twice, both styles passed 30 seconds of scrubbing against acetone and the smash test. It always feels nice to see them pass the tests.

Now for sizing, loading, and range testing.

Just curious?
Which coating did you use?
Would be interested in any pictures after you sized, and before you loaded them.

[2wheelDuke]

Just curious?
Which coating did you use?
Would be interested in any pictures after you sized, and before you loaded them.

For some reason, they're looking darker in photos than they really are.

This is the gold liquid from Gateway Bullets. 5:1:7, baked 10 minutes in a toaster oven set to convection at 400F.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n73/2wheelduke/Guns/Casting/DSC_0497_zpsb51aaaae.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/2wheelduke/media/Guns/Casting/DSC_0497_zpsb51aaaae.jpg.html)

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n73/2wheelduke/Guns/Casting/DSC_0500_zps46e2f69a.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/2wheelduke/media/Guns/Casting/DSC_0500_zps46e2f69a.jpg.html)

I'm going to try the GC ones with and without the check. I tried them with before, and they shot about as well as conventional lube. I tried the same boolit in my .308 powdercoated, with and without checks, and accuracy was horrible. At least they didn't foul.

So I made these to try to continue that testing. I also figure if they were good in a .308 with 10 grains of Red Dot behind them, they should work at a bit less speed in a .44mag.

[gunoil]

Powder is fun.







“Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon.”
“The pigeon knocks over all the pieces, ****s on the board and then struts around like it won the game.”


~Vladimir Putin~

[HI-TEK]

Powder is fun.







“Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon.”
“The pigeon knocks over all the pieces, ****s on the board and then struts around like it won the game.”


~Vladimir Putin~


I think Ausglock had more fun that some folk.
I heard through the grapevine that he did very well in local shooting competition.
Some fairly impressive trophies were seen.
He may have made it to a master status, or very close.

[Ausglock]

Yeah. I did fairly well at the Queensland State Title for IPSC on the weekend.
I got 2nd in A grade Classic Div and top senior. Missed going to Master grade by 0.28%.
Of all the winners and placegetters, nearly 70% were using my Coated Bullets.

[farmerjim]

Congratulations Ausglock !

[Dystaxia]

Hi-Tek made Dillion's 'Blue Press' magazine:

118797

But we already knew how good it was. :castmine:

[Ausglock]

Wonder why he said they are kind of messy as the moly comes off when reloading????
This fool has no idea...

[HI-TEK]

Wonder why he said they are kind of messy as the moly comes off when reloading????
This fool has no idea...

I read the report, and, I don't know for sure, but it seems to me, that possibly, writer may have been referring Moly Disulphide as coming off, as mentioned Moly matters may be not clearly separated from coated projectile reload details.

Hi-Tek coatings do not contain any Moly Disuplhide, so there should not be any stain/messy transfers taking place.

As you all know, when coating is done OK, there is no transfer, nor making hands dirty, and, coating certainly stays put on sizing and mechanical handling as in reloading, both manually or with automated systems.

Any way, the writer of the report seems certainly happy with coated projectiles.

I am very pleased, that the coating was accepted well enough, for to be included in such magazine.

[leadman]

The writer was referring the use of Moly here in the states that was the rage 10 or 15 years ago.
He also stated the boolits were sized before and after coating.

[kbstenberg]

I know this is old news. I have put my HT on the Back burner for a while and I can't remember the sequence for mixing the 5pt color-1pt hardener-7pt acetone.

[Moonman]

kbsteinburg,

THE NEW DRY POWDER HI-TEK does away with all that ratio mixing.

Just weigh out 10 grams (not grains) of powder and add 100 ml of Acetone.

SHAKE/SHAKE/SHAKE, ready to rock n roll baby, I like it.

[kbstenberg]

I would like some of the powder. But I still have more than 3/4s of the liquid. About 6lbs of PC paint. Probably 8 batches between FWFL and Bens Red in the freezer. I figure that's enough for 2 or 3 lifetimes.

[gunoil]

Hehehehe! Happy campers.

[Ausglock]

I know this is old news. I have put my HT on the Back burner for a while and I can't remember the sequence for mixing the 5pt color-1pt hardener-7pt acetone.


Yep. Just that.. 5 teaspoons of colour, 1 teaspoon of catalyst and 7 teaspoons of acetone. all good.
You can substitute anything for teaspoons..... buckets, whiskey bottles, shot glasses.. etc etc etc...:drinks:

[jayjay1]

Hm, I coated 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP and .38 Specials with pretty great success, but all of them on the heavy side and velocities at roundabout 1.000 fps, not much more.

Now I´m thinking back and forth, if I could try some 158grainer in .357 Magnum, what means I have to push them up to 1.150 fps to make the needed factor.

What do you guys say, will a coated bullet - without GC - go safely with this velocity?
Should I give it a try?

[2wheelDuke]

It's worth a try. Plenty of people run plain base 9mm that fast with no issues. I'm going to be testing .44mag plain base a good bit faster than that soon too.

[Leatherhead Bullets]

You will be good to go. We coat black and brick red. I shoot lots of full house 357 and 44 in revolvers and carbines with great success. I chronoed the .44 Henry at 1850 fps with a 240 grn SWC and the super blackhawk at 1290fps. No issues at all.

[gunoil]

So slick l cant hold on to them.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/2149D968-7D03-4E44-A8A0-74BFF0642A72_zps0scljsjw.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/2149D968-7D03-4E44-A8A0-74BFF0642A72_zps0scljsjw.jpg.html)

[R1valdez]

So slick l cant hold on to them.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/2149D968-7D03-4E44-A8A0-74BFF0642A72_zps0scljsjw.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/2149D968-7D03-4E44-A8A0-74BFF0642A72_zps0scljsjw.jpg.html)
P
what bullet mould is that?

[HI-TEK]

So slick l cant hold on to them.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/2149D968-7D03-4E44-A8A0-74BFF0642A72_zps0scljsjw.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/2149D968-7D03-4E44-A8A0-74BFF0642A72_zps0scljsjw.jpg.html)



Is That the Gold 1035 colour?
It is very nice, and seems to have a green hue.

Wait till you see the Candy Apple Red..... It is magnificent, ( even if I say so myself...lol)

A commercial caster here, is supplying me information on use of the Candy Apple with rifle ammo.
From initial discussions, users of cast coated with Candy Apple have reported to manufacturer exceptional results. I am eagerly waiting for those details.

[Moonman]

Gunoil,

Hardline Industries mold???? Weight????

What true color is that????

What mix, WET or DRY mix?????

MOONMAN

[Ausglock]

Looks like hardline and Gold 1035 to me.
The 122k/1035 Candy Apple is a very nice red.
See the photo HITEK put up a few pages back, of my Hardline 45 ammo. that is coated with the Candy Apple and the green ones are the Kryptonite green.

[Balta]

So slick l cant hold on to them.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/2149D968-7D03-4E44-A8A0-74BFF0642A72_zps0scljsjw.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/2149D968-7D03-4E44-A8A0-74BFF0642A72_zps0scljsjw.jpg.html)

Looks like you lose some coating during sizing? I can see a bare lead there..

[atygrit]

That is what I was thinking could be the issue, but I have an email in to the commercial caster, so I don't want to say at this time.
I was able to get my order replaced, so I'm a happy man.

[Ausglock]

Don't think there is bare lead.
Gunoil coats thin. That is the best coating. Looks fine.

[Avenger442]

Does anyone know if the Black 1035 powder sold by Gateway has the 2-Extreme catalysis in it?

[HI-TEK]

Does anyone know if the Black 1035 powder sold by Gateway has the 2-Extreme catalysis in it?

To answer you in short, No.
The powders that are with Gateway were first production batches, and were based on original recipe, as used in the solvent based systems.
The need was to produce exactly the same results with the powders as being obtained with the liquid systems.
That was achieved.
Then requests came for modified versions, which had to be made and tested.
They also worked well and equivalent to 2-extreme liquid systems.

Now, powders will be available in standard catalyst version as well as 2-Extreme versions.

Hope your question has been answered.

Just a quick add-on to above.
Aside from demands for 2-Extreme powders, we also had some asking about harder, and more durable resin system.
We managed to make a solvent and powder system, that not only worked, but exceeded all expectations with a far better polymer system that also had 2-Extreme properties.
All of these were tested with traditional hand guns and with higher velocity applications.
As advised in my previous blog, I am waiting for test results that I will publish.
Ausglock has been lucky enough to now have and use the resin system for a while, in his Kryptonite Green (liquid form).
He has used 2-Extreme and 3-Extreme catalyst with new resin system with success.
I am told, that all who try his coated non lube grooved alloys, are amazed.
May be he can advise more himself.

[Avenger442]

Thanks Joe. That was the answer to my question.

If tougher resin proves out it would be something I would be interested in for my rifles. Even though the 44 mag. lever gun has had no leading at almost max loads with the liquid Gold 1035, always looking for something better. I like the idea of being able to shoot full pressure loads. But sometimes they are not the most accurate loads. Let us know if it starts shipping to the US.

[jayjay1]

We are a lot of pistol and revolver shooters inhere, but I didn´t find a post with some rifle rounds, maybe I missed it.

Well, I´m feeling very safe and wholy hearted happy with my coated pistol bullets meanwhile.
:oops:
So I want to try out some reduced loads with my old service rifles, a US Modell of 1917 and a Swiss IG11.

Has anyone inhere did this before and is willing to share his experiences?

[Avenger442]

We are a lot of pistol and revolver shooters inhere, but I didn´t find a post with some rifle rounds, maybe I missed it.

Well, I´m feeling very safe and wholy hearted happy with my coated pistol bullets meanwhile.
:oops:
So I want to try out some reduced loads with my old service rifles, a US Modell of 1917 and a Swiss IG11.

Has anyone inhere did this before and is willing to share his experiences?


JayJay
There have been several. My rifle test .308 and .44 are on pages 183 and 203. Not the best groups but still working on which powders and loads.

[Labanaktis]

We are getting better at this coating thing.....passed the smash and the wipe test....hell, we poured acetone on it and it was still good to go!

[Labanaktis]

Here we Go! Zombie Green Powered version!

[HI-TEK]

Here we Go! Zombie Green Powered version!

They look great. You have done well.
Have you sized any?
Please take a photo of sized items so we can see what it looks like.
Thanks much.

[Labanaktis]

Does the Candy Red come in the powdered version?

What are the available powdered versions?

[Labanaktis]

I'll size some this week... The others that were over cooked looked shinny where they were sized

[HI-TEK]

Does the Candy Red come in the powdered version?

What are the available powdered versions?

These are some powdered versions that are available, Brown Copper, Red Copper, Texas Tea, Candy Apple, Zombie Green, Black, Red 122L Red 122K, (slightly more violet Red), 254 Red, (more Orange Red).
All in harder resin and with 2-Extreme system.

[HI-TEK]

I'll size some this week... The others that were over cooked looked shinny where they were sized

They should all size well even if slightly over cooked.
Over cooking only changes colour, and should not interfere with other areas unless it was extensively over baked..

[Labanaktis]

Any pics of the different powdered reds?

[HI-TEK]

Any pics of the different powdered reds?

We do not have all Red coloured projectiles that were made from Powder systems as yet.
As they become available I will post.
The Reds are same as solvent based coatings. I have those.
One was posted with Candy Apple a few posts back.

[HI-TEK]

Any pics of the different powdered reds?

Have a look at post 4170 and 4168 they have pictures.

[Labanaktis]

Post 4168. If that's the Candy Apple Red, then that's what I would be after. Does that one come in the powdered version? The green in that pic looks like my Zombie Green.

[HI-TEK]

Post 4168. If that's the Candy Apple Red, then that's what I would be after. Does that one come in the powdered version? The green in that pic looks like my Zombie Green.

You are correct, The Red is Candy Apple and the other is Zombie Green.
Both are available in Powdered version with harder resin and 2-Extreme system.

[Labanaktis]

Awesome! I am not familiar with the harder resin and 2-extreme system?

is the process different the the powdered zombie?

[Avenger442]

What happens if you add more catalysis than the amount called for in the ratio?

[HI-TEK]

What happens if you add more catalysis than the amount called for in the ratio?

Just wasted.
Any excess simply gasses off during cooking, and does not seem to add any benefits

[HI-TEK]

Awesome! I am not familiar with the harder resin and 2-extreme system?

is the process different the the powdered zombie?

Newer resins have not been really advertised so I am not surprised.

Process for both solvent & powdered system remains the same.
We just use a modified resin system which is same in liquid and powders.
The invention of Extreme, 2-Extreme 3-Extreme catalysts came about the desire to coat and size very hard alloys. These catalysts significantly reduce loads on punches and also supplies a coating with higher load carrying capability.

[Ausglock]

You are correct, The Red is Candy Apple and the other is Zombie Green.
Both are available in Powdered version with harder resin and 2-Extreme system.

Ummm... The green in post 4168 is actually Kryptonite Green, Not Zombie Green.
The bullets are Hardline 230gn RN .452

[Labanaktis]

Does anyone in the states sell the powdered candy apple red? I checked the few that I know and could not find any.

[prickett]

The invention of Extreme, 2-Extreme 3-Extreme catalysts came about the desire to coat and size very hard alloys. These catalysts significantly reduce loads on punches and also supplies a coating with higher load carrying capability.

Can you please explain again the disadvantages of the extreme catalysts? I know you did once, but its buried somewhere in 213 pages of comments.

Thx.

[HI-TEK]

Can you please explain again the disadvantages of the extreme catalysts? I know you did once, but its buried somewhere in 213 pages of comments.

Thx.


I cannot remember posting any "disadvantages" using any of the Catalysts.
They all perform as required.
What I recall posting is, the use of Extreme & 2-Extreme catalysts significantly reduced sizing loads on sizing machines both manual and motorised.
As some hobbyist & commercial manufacturers use the long wax lube type sizing systems,, these sizing systems can have engaged, two or three projectiles simultaneously.
This had caused excessive loads on Punches and gearbox drives during sizing, and, projectile noses and tails were damaged when trying to push through the two or three projectiles.
Using Extreme catalyst with coatings, almost eliminated very high loads and subsequent damage to projectiles during sizing.
We produced the 2-Extreme catalyst, which overcame all the engineering problems.
Some folk, wanted to use benefits of each Extreme and 2 Extreme catalysts, so we developed the Hybrid 3-Extreme catalyst.
The disadvantages of the use of the 3_extreme catalyst is costs. These cost significantly more to produce than other catalysts, and many then realised that they were obtaining adequate results using the 2-Extreme system.
Now, with combination of a harder/tougher & more slippery polymer, and combination use of 2-Extreme catalysed system, both with liquids and powders, users obtain maximum benefits at affordable levels.
Apology for long reply, but I just wanted to clarify things.

[HI-TEK]

Does anyone in the states sell the powdered candy apple red? I checked the few that I know and could not find any.


Shipment is under way to the US. Many colours will be available within 4-5 weeks including the Candy Apple.
I believe that several suppliers will be able to supply material once it arrives to the US.

[HI-TEK]

Ummm... The green in post 4168 is actually Kryptonite Green, Not Zombie Green.
The bullets are Hardline 230gn RN .452

Apology, my mistake.. it was my blood shot eye that caused colour distortion....lol

[Ausglock]

Apology, my mistake.. it was my blood shot eye that caused colour distortion....lol

Too much home brew Whiskey????? :veryconfu

[Labanaktis]

Here are the sized bullets! .3560/.3565. The bullets are dropping from the moulds at .358/.359 on average.

The coating is working perfect. Didn't loose any during the sizing process.

[Ausglock]

Just as they should be. Good job.

[Labanaktis]

Thank you! I will be looking into casting 223's with a lead. I heard you need to use a harder lead. What would you guys suggest? I would be coating with Hi-Tek. What can you push Hi-Tek up to?

[leadman]

I used heat treated linotype for the Lee 22 cal. "Bator" boolits that I pushed to 3,619fps average. Air cooled linotype is good in some guns to 3,000 fps, others may not get to 2,500 fps.

I used Red Copper and Gold 1035 in my quest for hi velocity. In the 223 Rem I used H4895 powder. The 3,619 fps loads were over max listed loads but they did not present any problems in my gun.

Velocities of 2,500 fps to around 2,800, 3,000 fps are done fairly easily. Use weight sorted boolits with good gas checks installed properly. I have used aluminum gas checks and they worked good other than the time I tried to install them on 32 BHN linotype boolits. The GC extruded up the side of the boolit. I think the boolit was harder than the aluminum. If you use aluminum gcs install them first if you are going to heat treat the boolit.

[HI-TEK]

Too much home brew Whiskey????? :veryconfu




Not enough, and it should be only good old Kentucky aged bourbon. Nothing but the best....

[jayjay1]

32 BHN? Holy Moly!

Do you use them in an AR15?
32 should be hard enough for auto feeding, not?

[HI-TEK]

I used heat treated linotype for the Lee 22 cal. "Bator" boolits that I pushed to 3,619fps average. Air cooled linotype is good in some guns to 3,000 fps, others may not get to 2,500 fps.

I used Red Copper and Gold 1035 in my quest for hi velocity. In the 223 Rem I used H4895 powder. The 3,619 fps loads were over max listed loads but they did not present any problems in my gun.

Velocities of 2,500 fps to around 2,800, 3,000 fps are done fairly easily. Use weight sorted boolits with good gas checks installed properly. I have used aluminum gas checks and they worked good other than the time I tried to install them on 32 BHN linotype boolits. The GC extruded up the side of the boolit. I think the boolit was harder than the aluminum. If you use aluminum gcs install them first if you are going to heat treat the boolit.

Leadman,
Great work. Thank you for publishing your findings.
I would, and I suppose many others would, be interested in which coatings you used, what catalyst, and how was sizing with these hard alloys?
Would you be so kind to detail what you did and what you found during the whole process.
I would find it great reading.
Thanks much
Joe

[Avenger442]

I used Red Copper and Gold 1035 in my quest for hi velocity. In the 223 Rem I used H4895 powder. The 3,619 fps loads were over max listed loads but they did not present any problems in my gun.



Thanks leadman
I have cast and coated some of the same bullets (softer alloy) with gold 1035 and was trying to decide what powder to go with. What accuracy were you able to achieve and what load was it? Gun, barrel length, etc.?

Love the sharing of experience. Saves time and mistakes.

[jayjay1]

Hm,
my new rifle mold throws .310", but I would need .311" for my barrel.

Will the coating add 1/1000 of an inch to it?

[HI-TEK]

Hm,
my new rifle mold throws .310", but I would need .311" for my barrel.

Will the coating add 1/1000 of an inch to it?

jayjay1,
Just measure average diameter of your cast. Coat some to your satisfaction, and re-measure diameter.
This way you can determine how much coating you used and what are effects on a specific number of coated projectiles.
Please advise

[Labanaktis]

From my limited experience, you should be dropping .001/.002" larger then you need. Then coat and size. My 9mm moulds are dropping .358/.359, then I am coating and then sizing to .356/.357". I am not loosing any coating. If your mould is not dropping correctly, you will not make it up with the coating.....the coating should not be used to build up to the size you need.

[Balta]

Here are the sized bullets! .3560/.3565. The bullets are dropping from the moulds at .358/.359 on average.

The coating is working perfect. Didn't loose any during the sizing process.
is that 3 coats?? powder version of HiTek?

[Labanaktis]

Yes, 3 coats of the Hi-Tek powdered Zombie Green. The 2nd coat looked good but 3 makes a difference in appearance.

[leadman]

My heat treated lino boolits were coated with Red Copper and Gold 1035. Both seemed to work well but the Gold 1035 seemed to me to size easier. I used standard and Extreme cat.
I used both copper and aluminum gas checks. If you use aluminum checks make sure you install them before heat treating as they are soft enough to extrude up the sides of the boolit! I give the copper the advantage in this application.
I have alot of H4895 so this is the powder I used for testing.
Highest velocity was obtained in the 23" bull barrel on my Contender at 3,619 fps. This load was beyond listed manual data and while they presented no problems I probably will not go this high again. Just wanted to see how fast I could push the boolits. I ran out of powder room before I reached the boolits limit.

The loads functioned fine in my Stag Arms left hand AR15 with 16" barrel. Velocity lose in the AR was about 300 fps. Accuracy was around 2 moa.
Now that it is under 100 degrees during the day I intend to continue testing these boolits and coatings to improve the accuracy. Hopefully I will be able to test the harder resin also.

[Gremlin460]

Joe I gave a guy your contact details last w/end, at the GCPC... did he get in touch with you? Also I need some C.A.Red soon...

[HI-TEK]

Joe I gave a guy your contact details last w/end, at the GCPC... did he get in touch with you? Also I need some C.A.Red soon...

Gremlin,
Thanks for your referral, much appreciated.
I have on average about 20-25 emails, 8-10 phone calls a week from people wanting products so it is possible, that your contact may have already contacted me. Please send me a PM with details.
With Candy Apple Red, just send me a PM of what you require.
Thanks much

[gunoil]

Your testing is great leadman.

[HI-TEK]

Your testing is great leadman.


I second that... well done.:drinks:

[kryogen]

cant wait for the US shipment of powder....... I am buying as soon as it hits the store.

Did you ship brown copper powder there ?

[HI-TEK]

cant wait for the US shipment of powder....... I am buying as soon as it hits the store.

Did you ship brown copper powder there ?

Shipment is already on the water, heading to LA.
It should arrive around 15-18th.
For a start, there will be Brown Copper, Red Copper, Red 122L, Red 122K, Red 254, Candy Apple,
Zombie Green, Black, Texas Tea, Gold 1035, Old Gold, (antique gold).
You will have to be quick, as orders are being placed for supply already.
There should be a follow up shipment soon.

[kryogen]

those powders have all been tested, and the brown copper works fine ?

[HI-TEK]

those powders have all been tested, and the brown copper works fine ?


They work just fine.
As possible, I will post some photos of products coated with various coloured coatings.
There is limited amount of Brown Copper coating sent.
Some is already spoken for and pre-sold, and I dont know how much remains available.

[waltham41]

What is the difference between the liquid coating that I bought and have yet to try, and this powder that is now being mentioned. Ease of coating, better coating or what?

[HI-TEK]

What is the difference between the liquid coating that I bought and have yet to try, and this powder that is now being mentioned. Ease of coating, better coating or what?

The powders have been mentioned now for 6 or so months.
Stocks were available in the US since May.
Liquid coatings are supplied as solvent based systems and are a two pack which requires
pre-mixing and dilution.
Powders are 100% ready to use, after you add some to solvent. Usually a mixture of about (20gms) about 3/4 oz is mixed into 100-120 mls of Acetone. Mixed well and then use about 7-8 mils to coat about 250 projectiles.
Liquids are Flammable materials and have Hazchem status.
Powders can be posted as they are not Hazchem restricted.
Performance wise, the powders under way, contain harder resin system, and 2-Extreme benefits.
The liquid versions have been tested already in the US, and the powders that are under way are exactly the same, but a solvent free dry product.

[kryogen]

For me, the advantage is that they can be shipped to me from the usa without any issue. So I can buy those.
The solvent liquids can not.

And also, quite frankly, it's much easier to just add acetone to powder.

[Love Life]

I like the powder much better than the liquid system.

[waltham41]

Who in the states is selling the powder? Any websites?

[Moonman]

Waltham41,

You might Google GATEWAY BULLETS for powdered HI-TEK.

Gateway Bullets, Bayou Bullets, SNS Casting, LNL Casting,

Black Bullets International, Missouri Bullets are people

who also offer FINISHED HI-TEK coated projectiles for sale,

some even offer cheaper sample packs (100 Boolits).

[Ausglock]

Having used and tested all the coatings, liquid and powder, I prefer the Liquid coating. It just works better for me. But for small runs for other people, I will use the powder as it stores better.

[Moonman]

I like the Powdered HI-TEK for my uses,

Ausglock commercially coats thousands and thousands of projectiles.

I have and still use my remaining LIQUID, but the Dry is just best for me.

[2wheelDuke]

I can't wait to try the powder, but I have alot of liquid to use up.

[Moonman]

2wheelDuke,

I like the powder, 20 GRAMS weighed out, add 100 ml Acetone,
into a Coke bottle SHAKE and coat baby.

[Redwoode]

OK to use MEK with the powders?

[Ausglock]

OK to use MEK with the powders?

MEK is fine with the powder. It lets the flash off take a bit longer to allow a good coating during the coating process.
Great in hot summer with low humidity.

[HI-TEK]

I can't wait to try the powder, but I have a lot of liquid to use up.


Sounds to me like that you need to cast a whole lot more and shoot much more.
Unfortunately, (or is it fortunately), the coatings do go a long way with the amount that can be coated, so the only way to use up your liquids is coat plenty more, and may be, do some for your mates as well.
Then, happy folk all around.

[HI-TEK]

My heat treated lino boolits were coated with Red Copper and Gold 1035. Both seemed to work well but the Gold 1035 seemed to me to size easier. I used standard and Extreme cat.
I used both copper and aluminum gas checks. If you use aluminum checks make sure you install them before heat treating as they are soft enough to extrude up the sides of the boolit! I give the copper the advantage in this application.
I have alot of H4895 so this is the powder I used for testing.
Highest velocity was obtained in the 23" bull barrel on my Contender at 3,619 fps. This load was beyond listed manual data and while they presented no problems I probably will not go this high again. Just wanted to see how fast I could push the boolits. I ran out of powder room before I reached the boolits limit.

The loads functioned fine in my Stag Arms left hand AR15 with 16" barrel. Velocity lose in the AR was about 300 fps. Accuracy was around 2 moa.
Now that it is under 100 degrees during the day I intend to continue testing these boolits and coatings to improve the accuracy. Hopefully I will be able to test the harder resin also.



I promised, that I will post some results with coating used in Rifle ammo.
The following report was supplied today, from a commercial caster who used the Hi-Tek Candy Apple coating for the testing done by his customer.
Below is report as received. What I did notice that no gas check were used.

Rifle, Enfield 303
180gn spire point projectile as per photo
sized to 312
35 BHN
J&M coated 2x coats Candy Apple Red
No gas check
winchester 760 powder 43gn
2250 FPS
tests were carried out at, 100, 200 and 300 Meters
results matched performance of Jacketed projectiles
Client who tested the projectiles has ordered our 180gn Spire point in Candy Apple Red


Rifle Ruger MKII 308
180gn spire point projectile as per photo
sized to 309
35 BHN
J&M coated 2x coats Candy Apple Red
No gas check
winchester 760 powder 46gn
2450 FPS
tests were carried out at, 100, 200 and 300 Meters
results matched performance of Jacketed projectiles
Client who tested the projectiles has ordered our 180gn Spire point in Candy Apple Red



I am waiting on the load data for the 460 mag but our client is running a 233gn 45 cal projectile @ 2500 FPS approx 42-46gn powder with no gas check.

[nevadabob]

In weighing out the 20 grams of powder, will a cheapo Harbor Freight scale suffice?

[Ausglock]

Yep. the 20gms can be a bit under or a bit over. it isn't Critical.

[HI-TEK]

In weighing out the 20 grams of powder, will a cheapo Harbor Freight scale suffice?

As Ausglock said, it is not all that important if you add a little less or a little more, as every thing you need is in the powder at correct ratio.
The solvent is used, just to allow you to dilute enough, so you can coat many with the mixture.
Many just use a tablespoon scoop full, and some measure 4 or 5 teaspoon full, to 100- to 120 mls Acetone, without weighing powder.
What ever you use, and find satisfactory, then simply repeat this each time you make up mixture.The thing to remember is consistency, and do not add too much coating to solvent, and dont use a lot to coat.
Use coating mixture sparingly, as it works.
If you use about 20 gm to 100 mls, then use about 7 mls of the mixture to about 250 projectiles.
Quickly shake coat, and dump whilst wet onto drying mesh.
Leave and dont disturb until thoroughly dry. Dont rush drying time. Coat and leave it, even over night will not hurt.
After it is thoroughly dry, then cook at about 200C for 10-11 minutes and cook time will depend on oven and metal load.
Before trying to recoat, do all the tests to ensure that first coat is cooked and bonded well.
If not, then dont do a second coat, until you find out what is gone wrong.
You cant fix a bad first coat by coating a second time.

[Redwoode]

How do gold 1035 powder and gold liquid I'm using from Donnie compare visually? 1035 maybe a bit lighter and brighter?

[HI-TEK]

How do gold 1035 powder and gold liquid I'm using from Donnie compare visually? 1035 maybe a bit lighter and brighter?


Donnie has Various Gold coatings.
The Standard Gold is (Old Gold). Old Gold, is more dark than the 1035. The 1035 Gold is much brighter (yellow) and more glittery.
We will soon have an even brighter and much more glittery Gold than 1035, and new one will have a high pearl appearance finish.
The new Gold colour will be called Pearl Gold.
The Pearl gold, will be available in liquid and in powder forms.
I will try to post some coated pills when we can to show final colour, and hopefully, side by side with various Gold ones for direct comparison.

[Redwoode]

I'll bet it's standard (old gold). Had it about a year and a half now. I'm having great results using it, red copper and mixing both 50/50 giving a nice in between color. 2 extreme catalyst exclusively.

It's no problem at all getting great results with the liquids. No fancy breville convection oven just a conventional toaster oven. I do use a pid controller double duty between lead pot and oven that maintains 385 degrees. Shake and turn tray half way through.

I'll likely try the gold 1035 powder on the way. Hopefully it will mix ok with mixed liquids.

Thanks to great product and support from distributors and all the help in this forum.

[nevadabob]

Once the powder & acetone are mixed, how long is this solution good for?

[HI-TEK]

I'll bet it's standard (old gold). Had it about a year and a half now. I'm having great results using it, red copper and mixing both 50/50 giving a nice in between color. 2 extreme catalyst exclusively.

It's no problem at all getting great results with the liquids. No fancy breville convection oven just a conventional toaster oven. I do use a pid controller double duty between lead pot and oven that maintains 385 degrees. Shake and turn tray half way through.

I'll likely try the gold 1035 powder on the way. Hopefully it will mix ok with mixed liquids.

Thanks to great product and support from distributors and all the help in this forum.

I am glad you are happy with results.
Many have mixed various coloured liquids to get unique colours.
Coatings, Catalysts are all compatible.
The Gold 1035 liquid, now with Donnie, is with a harder Resin system as some folk were wanting a harder coating for use with rifle applications.. All the other liquids are standard coatings, and they all work just fine as well.

Today I received another test report using Red 122K.
For all who are interested, is test report from commercial manufacturer, whose customer reported back below results;

Data for the 460 Smith and Wesson 460 magnum
8.5 inch gain twist barrel
233gn RN projectile 30 BHN sized to 452
coated J&M Red 122K, 2 coats
using Winchester 296 powder 44gn
Measured velocity 2200-2300 FPS
Client prefers our lead projectiles over jacked projectiles for both accuracy and cleanliness

[tomme boy]

Are you just letting the acetone flash off before cooking them?

Or are you letting them dry longer?

What is the average amount of time to let them dry before cooking?

Is there instruction that come with the powder?

[Avenger442]

Are you just letting the acetone flash off before cooking them?

Or are you letting them dry longer?

What is the average amount of time to let them dry before cooking?

Is there instruction that come with the powder?

If acetone does not dry completely it can cause problems such as coating not adhering to the lead (failed smash test).:sad:. I had to re-melt about 10 lbs of 45s because I got in a hurry. So I never dry first coat less than four hours usually it is overnight. Second and third coats can usually be cooked after an hour. You will see all kinds of suggestions on dry times but if you don't know humidity, temperature and amount of acetone in the mix they may or may not apply to your situation. Joe, Ausglock, and others can add what they know but I'm just telling you my experience with my mix in my location.

[HI-TEK]

Are you just letting the acetone flash off before cooking them?

Or are you letting them dry longer?

What is the average amount of time to let them dry before cooking?

Is there instruction that come with the powder?

The drying time will depend on several factors. There is no hard and fast rule with drying.
How thick you applied coating, ambient temperature and humidity all will affect drying time..
You can coat and leave it for adequate time to completely dry. Simply test only a few with baking. If they turn out OK cook the rest.

All suppliers do provide instructions with powders and also will be help with any questions.

[zomby woof]

As Ausglock said, it is not all that important if you add a little less or a little more, as every thing you need is in the powder at correct ratio.
The solvent is used, just to allow you to dilute enough, so you can coat many with the mixture.
Many just use a tablespoon scoop full, and some measure 4 or 5 teaspoon full, to 100- to 120 mls Acetone, without weighing powder.
What ever you use, and find satisfactory, then simply repeat this each time you make up mixture.The thing to remember is consistency, and do not add too much coating to solvent, and dont use a lot to coat.
Use coating mixture sparingly, as it works.
If you use about 20 gm to 100 mls, then use about 7 mls of the mixture to about 250 projectiles.
Quickly shake coat, and dump whilst wet onto drying mesh.
Leave and dont disturb until thoroughly dry. Dont rush drying time. Coat and leave it, even over night will not hurt.
After it is thoroughly dry, then cook at about 200C for 10-11 minutes and cook time will depend on oven and metal load.
Before trying to recoat, do all the tests to ensure that first coat is cooked and bonded well.
If not, then dont do a second coat, until you find out what is gone wrong.
You cant fix a bad first coat by coating a second time.

I've been using both liquid and powder with good results. Your 7mls (about 1 1/2 tsp) to 250 bullets is based on what grain bullets?? I've been using 1 1/2 tsp on 5 pounds of bullets no matter what the weight. A 120 vs 230 grain bullet is quite a difference in weight.

[HI-TEK]

I've been using both liquid and powder with good results. Your 7mls (about 1 1/2 tsp) to 250 bullets is based on what grain bullets?? I've been using 1 1/2 tsp on 5 pounds of bullets no matter what the weight. A 120 vs 230 grain bullet is quite a difference in weight.

The 7-8 mls was used on 9mm.
This volume is only a suggestion volume that has worked, and depending on what individuals like to do, they can adjust things to suit.
Main thing is, if what ever you do works for you, then keep it going.
General advice is, dont use thick coatings, or too much coating mixtures at each stage, as it will only cause problems and headaches and many remelts..

[Ausglock]

For those that came in late....

Here is the instructions for HI-TEK coating.
This is for the liquid coating. But just substitute the 20gms of powder to 100mls of acetone instead of the 5-1-7 mix of liquid, catalyst and acetone.
All is good..
1. add 2 bullets to your colour resin and shake for a good 5 minutes.
2. shake the catalyst.
3. empty bottle ready. Add 5 parts colour immediately...IMMEDIATELY... after shaking.
4. Add 7 parts Acetone and then the 1 part catalyst.
5. Put lid on the mixture and shake the schit out of it for 5 minutes. I use 600ml coke bottles with pop-tops on them. easy to add coating to the bullets.
6. Add about 200 bullets to the plastic bucket. lid is NOT needed.
7. Shake the 5-1-7-mix and Immediately add a dribble to the bucket of bullets. Replace mixture lid Immediately.
8. Shake the bucket of bullets and coating. Remember... you have to have the bullets and coating mixing around just like a cement mixer does. The bottom of the bucket should be wet with coating.
9. Keep shaking, swirling until the rattle of the bullets changes to a dull thumping. you will hear the change really easy.
10. dump the coated bullets onto your drying tray and shake the tray side to side until the bullets have leveled out on the tray. don't worry about them touching. it doesn't matter.
11. If you think there isn't enough colour on the bullet, then you have the coating just right. Leave them alone for at least 10 minutes. then warm them with a hair dryer.
12. turn on your oven and pre-heat to 200deg C.
13. place you bullets on the baking tray and spread them around to be even on the tray and place tray in the oven.
14. set the oven timer for 12 minutes. not 6 or 8. But a full 12 minutes.
15. when the oven turns off, remove the tray of bullets and let them cool. do not touch them until cool.
16. when cool. take 1 bullet. lay it in it's side on a steel base and smash it with a hammer. the coating should not flake off.
17. Take another bullet and get some acetone on a white cloth and wipe the coated bullet for 30 seconds and see if the colour comes off. if it does. place back into oven and bake for another 5 minutes. ( I have found 12 minutes per bake is enough).
18. When the bullets are cool, place back in the bucket and repeat steps 6 to 17.
19. when 2nd coat has cooled and has tested OK, Size and shoot.
20. Smile to yourself that you are now up to the same level of technology as we Aussies.
This is really piss easy to do. the biggest mistake is not shaking immediately before coating or not baking long enough or at a too low temperature.

[Ausglock]

I've been using both liquid and powder with good results. Your 7mls (about 1 1/2 tsp) to 250 bullets is based on what grain bullets?? I've been using 1 1/2 tsp on 5 pounds of bullets no matter what the weight. A 120 vs 230 grain bullet is quite a difference in weight.
250 9mm bullets = about 2KG of metal. so 200 45 bullets is about the same.

[Redwoode]

I don't use a convection oven and was getting some slight unevenness in final color. Read in here somewhere to quickly pull tray out half way through the bake, shake casts, rotate tray 180 and right back in. Helps compensate for heat not circulating as evenly as in convection oven. I also added some bricks in oven bottom to hold and even heat a bit.

[HI-TEK]

I don't use a convection oven and was getting some slight unevenness in final color. Read in here somewhere to quickly pull tray out half way through the bake, shake casts, rotate tray 180 and right back in. Helps compensate for heat not circulating as evenly as in convection oven. I also added some bricks in oven bottom to hold and even heat a bit.

Sounds about right.
Did that improve colour being more even?

[Redwoode]

Absolutely. Especially on gold. Trick is closing oven door quickly so as not to lose more heat than necessary.

[HI-TEK]

Absolutely. Especially on gold. Trick is closing oven door quickly so as not to lose more heat than necessary.

That is why I always try to recommend, that fan forced ovens are better than static heated ovens.
Mini cyclone inside oven is best, as it helps with heat circulation and heat recovery as it stirs hot air from heating element faster and more evenly.

[Redwoode]

Was getting some areas in tray where gold casts cured darker. Must have been hot spots in non convection oven. No problemo now.

Watching temp on pid controller it only drops 6 to 8 degrees for less than a minute from the opening and closing. Cure is still at 385 degrees for 5 mins + either side of the open and close. Apparently that's enough for a reliable cure for liquid gold and red copper with 2 extreme catalyst. Perfect tests time after time.

[Redwoode]

Agree circulating oven easier to work with. Took a spell to work it out with this one for sure. Works just great now so will hang with it till it dies.

The pid temp controller used back and forth between lead pot and oven is a good investment in consistency for sure.

I normally due three coats and finished casts come out smooth and shiny. :-)

[HI-TEK]

Was getting some areas in tray where gold casts cured darker. Must have been hot spots in non convection oven. No problemo now.

Watching temp on pid controller it only drops 6 to 8 degrees for less than a minute from the opening and closing. Cure is still at 385 degrees for 5 mins + either side of the open and close. Apparently that's enough for a reliable cure for liquid gold and red copper with 2 extreme catalyst. Perfect tests time after time.

Looks like you are onto it.
Well done.
Coating being a little darker is no problem at all.
It works well, and all that has changed is cosmetic appearance.
Some people like the darker cooked colours.

Some time ago, Ausglock in fact did some cooking tests,to see what happens with coating on extra cooking, and baked for 10 minutes, took out a few, and continued cooking for 20 minutes, taking out a few every 1 minute.
Despite the colours darkening, they all worked well from 10 minute cook, all the way through to 20 minute cook.
They passed all tests.
Main thing was that they also shot well leaving clean barrels.

[nevadabob]

Recently asked this question but didn't get a response: How long is the prepared solution good for? If you only add a small amount to the tub of bullets, there'd be leftover solution if you're doing a small run, like 1000 bullets or so. Does it keep for days/weeks/24 hrs? Need to refrigerate? Thanks.

[Moonman]

nevadabob,

It's always better to CAST AHEAD, so you have plenty of projectiles to coat.
I've used it after a few days and it worked OK.

Ausglock says better results, with the liquid HI-TEK, is attained, if you mix up
a larger batch (better color, ratios, coating) then coat a few THOUSAND.

I coat IN 6 POUND batches, using both Liquid HI-TEK and the newer
Dry mix, I personally prefer the Dry Mix HI-TEK (20 Grams weighed,
100 ml of Acetone). I coat 2 coats, sometimes even 3 for appearance
of final color.

[nevadabob]

Got it. Thanks!

[leadman]

nevadabob, I have used coating that has sat for a couple of weeks. I did have to add more acetone as the coating had thickened. Add a little at a time until the viscosity looks right.

[Balta]

How you guys regonize that Hi-tek coat is dry enough for baking?

[kryogen]

how many 9mm bullets will you coat with (20 Grams weighed,
100 ml of Acetone)?
how many grams in a container of powder?

[Moonman]

Balta,

I just let trays of projectiles DRY OVERNIGHT.

[Leatherhead Bullets]

Drying time is relative to humidity and temp. I have found that with a fan blowing on the projo's, drying time can be +/- 15 mins at average room temp. I disperse ~40 lbs on three racks at a time. As the weather has gotten colder, drying times have had to increase. Don't go by feel. Lube grooves etc. can take a bit longer to dry, and will blister and flake when cooked. When in doubt, wait a bit longer.

[zomby woof]

how many 9mm bullets will you coat with (20 Grams weighed,
100 ml of Acetone)?
how many grams in a container of powder?

100 ml is around 20 teaspoons. I use 1 1/2 tsp for 5 pounds of boolits. So it depends how many coats you want and if you run it thinner.

[PAT303]

Well I've hit a snag,I've looked through Kmart,Big W,Homewares,Good Guys and can't find any pie warmers/toaster ovens that go over 250 degree's,any idea's where to look now?. Pat

[HI-TEK]

Well I've hit a snag,I've looked through Kmart,Big W,Homewares,Good Guys and can't find any pie warmers/toaster ovens that go over 250 degree's,any idea's where to look now?. Pat


Try Ebay, Billy Guyatt retail store, Grays on Line, and gumtree.

[Ausglock]

PAT303. try Homeart.
eBay has a euro something or other oven with 2 hotplates on top. My mate uses one of these and it works fine.

kryogen. that mix will do about 3000.

[nevadabob]

kryogen...20 grams = 0.705 ounces. For a total, it depends on how big your container is. I got this by googling "grams to ounces" and it brings up a conversion chart.

[PAT303]

So I've stuffed up here,I only need an oven that goes to 200 degree's Celsius?,is that right?. Pat