simple Hi-Tek coating

[Michael J. Spangler]

what do you guys think about water dropping an alloy approximately 1% tin, 1.5% antimony and about .15% arsenic? i'm cutting my mock COWW alloy with equal parts of lead for most of my 38 and 45 needs
i'm running that alloy in 40 cal and in 45-70 (hotter loads) and getting a little leading. in your experience would water dropping make enough difference to keep down leading? thanks guys!

if not i'll just run my straight allow of 1.77 tin, 3.02 antimony and .31 arsenic. water dropped.

[Beetmagnet]

First try...a bit grainy...or splotchy. Pass the wipe test and the sledge test. This is workable. I'm hoping to refine the process and get better.113535113537113538

[Beetmagnet]

Update...I sized some bullets, and the coating held great, even though they looked a bit grainy.

I was meticulous in my measurement. I used exactly 20 grams of powder to 100ml if acetone.
I attribute the grainy look to the acetone evaporating too quickly. After a few applications, I began putting a lid in the mixing container and leaving a crack for venting. This seemed to help. I contemplated using slightly less sollution. I'll experiment more Monday and get some better pictures.
Mine were coated 3 times, and I believe I overbaked them. I used both a convection oven and a Wal-Mart cheapo. I used a thermometer with both ovens, and left them in until the proper temp and time specifications were reached. I actually had them baking at a hair shy of 400%. I started the timer when temp got to 375%, and it was sitting right at 400% by the 5 minute mark. The results in both ovens were the same.

If I can refine this process and eliminate the graininess, I belive this Hi-Tek powder will make up 70% of my coating practices. However, I will have to be able to get it down to two coats. Count me impressed at the moment.

[1845greyhounds]

The grainy appearance may have less to do with the acetone evaporating too quickly, and more to do with when you spread the boolits out to dry. If you swirl/tumble coat your boolits until the acetone has evaporated, their surface's will look messy. If you spread them out to dry while the coating is still wet, the coating dries smooth. They'll shoot fine either way.

It may also be related to using more coating than is necessary. I start with a little and add more until the boolits look right.

[Beetmagnet]

It may also be related to using more coating than is necessary. I start with a little and add more until the boolits look right.

This is what I was going to try first thing Monday.

[Stephen Cohen]

I use three containers to swirl my cast in, and rotate them to give the coating in container time to dry off a little, this has cured the grainy coat I was getting. 1845greyhounds is also right about swirling too long and laying cast out a little wet.

[leadman]

michael spangler, A low antimony content alloy may not harden well, or it might take longer for it to reach max hardness.
In working with the 22 cal boolits to get full jacketed velocity plus I heat treat the boolits before coating and water drop after baking also. This seems to make a harder boolit that retains more of the hardness after coating and baking.

I would run a heat treating test on the alloy to see if it will harden before casting a bunch of boolits and coating them.

[Eviltoy]

Is a convection oven an absolute necessity?

[Blanco]

Convection is better but not a necessity
I picked up a small Rival toaster oven out of the trash that has worked great. The thing to watch out for on them is the thermostat. Better to use a reliable thermometer to judge temp.

[Michael J. Spangler]

coated another 32 pounds of bullets last night. god i love this coating.


how do you all handle heat treat with coating? or do you just water drop after the second bake? i know long soak times required for heat treating would damage the coating

[Avenger442]

coated another 32 pounds of bullets last night. god i love this coating.


how do you all handle heat treat with coating? or do you just water drop after the second bake? i know long soak times required for heat treating would damage the coating

What leadman is saying about the alloy making the difference with what your results are with heat treating and water drop must be true. I have heat treated an alloy of wheel weights and 2% tin, it took a 13.4 BHN to a 24.8 BHN. After coating the BHN went down to 14.3. Water dropping after last coat brought it up to average around 16.5 BHN (some of the test bullets lower some higher). In my case the heat treat and water drop brought me a 3 BHN increase over the after cast BHN. Guess next batch should be no heat treat and just water drop same alloy after last coat to see if that will give me the 3 BHN. If so, with that alloy, will not be heat treating again. I believe that you are definitely going to loose some BHN after the heat needed to coat if you heat treat and water drop after last coat will give you some increase in BHN. How much will probably depend on alloy.

If I remember right, leadman is using linotype alloy in his casting. He has been able to keep more of the heat treated BHN when water dropping after last coat. He has also been able to run bullets at a pressure that gives him above 3000 fps. That is if my memory is correct, which sometimes it is not.

[Beetmagnet]

I use three containers to swirl my cast in, and rotate them to give the coating in container time to dry off a little, this has cured the grainy coat I was getting. 1845greyhounds is also right about swirling too long and laying cast out a little wet.

I Tried both of these suggestions and they proved good. I attribute the graininess to the solution evaporating too quickly. I put a lid on the container initially and swirled the contents thoroughly. Then I took the lid off and swirled a few more seconds before pouring them out. Much...much better.

[jayjay1]

coated another 32 pounds of bullets last night. god i love this coating.


how do you all handle heat treat with coating? or do you just water drop after the second bake? i know long soak times required for heat treating would damage the coating

Holy ****!

That´s a lot, oh my gosh!

I can imagine coating this, but how do you bake such a bunch of boolits in a short time?!?!
:shock:

[farmerjim]

Holy ****!

That´s a lot, oh my gosh!

I can imagine coating this, but how do you bake such a bunch of boolits in a short time?!?!
:shock:
About 4.5 pounds (2 kilos) per 10 minute batch.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I have a household oven in my shop. I use it for coating, tempering heat treated steel and cerakote.

[farmerjim]

I have a household oven in my shop. I use it for coating, tempering heat treated steel and cerakote.

Is it a built in or stand alone oven range?
Is it a convection oven?
How much do you put in on each load and for how long?
I have been thinking about buying a used oven to speed things up.

[jayjay1]

About 4.5 pounds (2 kilos) per 10 minute batch.

What kind of oven and which temperature for 10 minutes?

[Moonman]

Convection Ovens circulate heat better.
YOUR oven temperature needs to be 200 C (400 F)
for aprox. 10 minutes AT TEMP.
Time VARIES with projectile weights (total volume oven load)

YOU need to vary TIME for your set-up and conditions.
Ambient air temps, humidity can cause varying results WITH BAKING TIMES.

YOU need to experiment with your process and set up.

CAUTION, THE OVEN MUST BE A DEDICATED ONE AND NEVER AGAIN USED FOR FOOD PREP.

[farmerjim]

What kind of oven and which temperature for 10 minutes?
I use an oster countertop convection oven, $99 at wallmart . 2 pounds, 1 kilo for 10 min works fine for 125 grain 9 mm.
Many use the Breville 1800 watt convection oven that will do 2 kilos in 10 min, but costs $250.
I think I can get a used regular size oven for less and do much larger loads.
That is why I am asking Michael J. Spangler about his oven.

[Beetmagnet]

Tested my first 8 batches today. The 9mm 125 gr HP worked good. The 9mm 135 gr gave me massive leading issues in my three test guns (Glock 26 LW barrel, Glock 17 LW barrel, Glock 34 stock Barrel), and a lot of smoke. I contacted Gateway (Super helpful people by the way), and he suggested that I may have baked them too long. I'm going to follow his recommendations when I get another day off next week. Let me add that they passed the Acetone/rub test, the smash test, and sized fine without flaking.

I was preheating the ovens (1 convection, 1 El cheapo) and then putting in the bullets. I would then wait till the thermometers reached 375% and cook them for exactly 10 minutes. The temps slowly climbed to right at 400%, but no higher.
Keep in mind that these are the exact same bullets, and sizes that I already Powder Coat with, and they have worked for thousands of rounds. So the problem lies with me, not the bullet, or size. And the leading is worse at the muzzle end, not the chamber end.

So...before I go looking into 192 pages of threads to get info...has anybody else had this happen.

[Michael J. Spangler]

stand alon kelvinator range.
set to about 385
conventional NOT convection
i load a tray that is as large as the racks in the oven. maybe 30" wide and 24" deep i guess. one layer deep of bullets.
i guess thats around 25 pounds.
i preheat for a while while i'm casting.
put the tray in and bake for 15 minutes and they pass the wipe test, sooner than that and they won't. i usually do 1 tray at a time because thats all i've cast at that point. i keep the tray just below the middle height rack in the oven.
worked great for thousands of boolits so far

definitely a nice fat way to coat. i don't need to worry as much about convection because i'm not overloading the oven. the oven was free too. i'm sure you can find a free one on craigslist or something.
the top range is covered by a high temp counter top material. i'm thinking of cutting about 1/4 of it off so i can have access to the electric elements. that would make for an awesome preheat plate for my molds and or ingots of boolit metal. can't beat that!

[farmerjim]

25 pounds per bake! That's 10 times what my counter top convection will do. I will be looking for one. I can plug it into the 50 amp welder receptacle with an adapter.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Yep that's just one tray.
I have 2 racks but I'm never able to cast enough between coatings to make use of it.

I need more 6 cavity molds. I really need a second casting pot so I don't have the down time waiting for lead to melt.

[Eviltoy]

Does anyone know whats up with NOE? I tried contacting them via their site as well as sending pM's here but no joy. Want to know which of their molds fits a lee 6 cavity handly the best the 4 or 5 cavity

[zomby woof]

Does anyone know whats up with NOE? I tried contacting them via their site as well as sending pM's here but no joy. Want to know which of their molds fits a lee 6 cavity handly the best the 4 or 5 cavity

I'm having the same issue. I have several 5 cavity NOE molds and the LEE handles fit nice. They should all fit the LEE handles

[Ausglock]

Redwoode.....PM sent with photos.

[Eviltoy]

I'm having the same issue. I have several 5 cavity NOE molds and the LEE handles fit nice. They should all fit the LEE handles
Yup but I ordered the mold and the paypal payment went through but it seems the items are still in my cart and the order is still pending so I need to know if all is in order. I sent him another PM now

[leadman]

Beetmagnet, I have identified several guns with issues of no leade in front of the chamber. Rifling is blunt right at the end of the chamber.
Take a coated boolit and knock it a little way into the rifling and back out. Look for the coating being cut by the rifling. This will happen sometimes if the boolit is oversized or the nose is large.
Had one gun that leaded badly with the Lee 45acp RN but worked great with the RCBS 45acp RN.
Another gun the chamber was not aligned with the bore of the barrel.

[Blanco]

I bought a NOE mold last week off the webstore and paid by paypal. No issues?
The Lee handles work just fine. By the way Amazon has the Lee handles for $12. If you have a Prime membership you get them shipped for free.
.....Blanco likes FREE....

[el34]

.....Blanco likes FREE....

Want some free white epoxy PC powder to go with your HF ES gun? Oh wait, you don't yet ....

[HATCH]

If you have a Prime membership you get them shipped for free.
.....Blanco likes FREE....

Its not free, you paid $70 a year for it.

[Blanco]

Yoour right
I get my money's worth too
On demand movies and music Free shipping on some Items, Great sale prices on lots of things. For Christmas last year they ran a Kershaw assisted open knife on sale I bought 7 of them for the guys. Delivered to my door I think they were about $12 each.
Fantastic deal and I was the hero all of them told me it was the most useful gift they got. I hav bought most of my Lee molds from Amazon also.
It's a great deal if you use it!

[Blanco]

Want some free white epoxy PC powder to go with your HF ES gun? Oh wait, you don't yet ....


Today :mrgreen: 114171

[Eviltoy]

08/21/2014 Pending PayPal IPN Verified [Completed (Unverified; $134.10)]
Does that mean all is in order?

[jayjay1]

Hello gents,
can´t read 193 thread sides, but did the first three.

Is there a summary or a short writeup of this theme, which explains the whole project shorter than 193 thread sites?

Please help an old lubesizer.

[HATCH]

I will send u a pm

[Avenger442]

jayjay1:
Try thread "Hi-Tek do's and don'ts" started byAusglock

[Beetmagnet]

Beetmagnet, I have identified several guns with issues of no leade in front of the chamber. Rifling is blunt right at the end of the chamber.
Take a coated boolit and knock it a little way into the rifling and back out. Look for the coating being cut by the rifling. This will happen sometimes if the boolit is oversized or the nose is large.
Had one gun that leaded badly with the Lee 45acp RN but worked great with the RCBS 45acp RN.
Another gun the chamber was not aligned with the bore of the barrel.

The thing is...I already use this exact bullet only Powder Coated, and it runs nothing short of perfection. I'm using the same bullets (COWW only) that I cast and Powder Coat with, and the Powder Coat looks a bit thicker than the Hi-Tek coating. I used the same gun, powder charge, OAL, and primers; the only thing that changed is the coating. All the Australian gents have proved this Hi-Tek works , so I know it is something I'm doing wrong, and its not the powder.

The good people at Gateway (where I bought the powder from...again super helpful...I'll be a return customer) suggested that I may be baking too long. Well...I tried shortening the baking time and that didn't work. Significant leading and smoke after testing only 10 rounds.
I'm going to try mixing some more solution with a different brand of Acetone, and see if my Acetone (that I currently use to clean bullets Powder Coating) is defective or something. I don't know...perhaps mine degraded since I opened it last year.

[jayjay1]

Thanks to HATCH and Avenger442!

:drinks:

[Ausglock]

Beet.
Use a little more catalyst. It will not hurt and the extra will just smoke off during the bake process.
I assume you are using the liquid coating?

[Beetmagnet]

Beet.
Use a little more catalyst. It will not hurt and the extra will just smoke off during the bake process.
I assume you are using the liquid coating?

Actually no, I'm using red copper powder.

[leadman]

Beetmagnet, I used Carnuba Red on some of the boolits coated with the Hi-Tek that were leading the guns and they did not lead.
The fact that the bearing surface is getting the HT coating scraped off when the boolit enters the rifling leads to the leading. The lack of a leade or a poorly cut chamber seem to be the reason the coating is scrapes off. Why these same boolits do not lead when lubed with a wax based lube or powder coat is something I do not know for sure. The wax lube if somewhat fluid and migrates (I think) but don't know if the PC does the same thing.

[Beetmagnet]

Beetmagnet, I used Carnuba Red on some of the boolits coated with the Hi-Tek that were leading the guns and they did not lead. .

Well...kinda hoped the Hi-Tek would let me get rid of all lubes. I'm working on it. Thank you for your recommendation though.

[Beetmagnet]

So here's an update so far. Today I did a lot of testing, and trying.

I bought brand new Acetone from Lowes and mixed a new batch last night. It was a reduced batch...10 grams of red copper Supercoat powder and 50 ml of acetone; same ratio as the directions on the container only at half amount. I let it set overnight.

Today I mixed up new batches while I was testing the other batches.
Old batch testing:
I shot 125 gr HP and 135gr no-lube-groove in the testing. All of these have passed the acetone wipe test, and the hammer test. All were previous loads that I have shot 1000's of Powder Coat bullets with. All were loaded to the same powder charge (Power Pistol), same Primers (WSP), in the same manner that has been my process thus far. I shot them through a Glock 26 (Lonewolf barrel), Glock 17 (Lonewolf barrel), Glock 34 (stock barrel), and a Smith and Wesson Shield. All were complete failures. The Glock 34 factory barrel was the worse, as you noticed accuracy problems after the 3rd or 4th shot. This was the worst leading I have ever seen. I noticed again that the leading begins an inch into the barrel, and increases until you reach the muzzle end. I guess the extra length of the Glock 34 gave more room for problems.

New batch test (done with Glock 34)
For this test I used only my convection oven, and I verified with two different thermometers; same ones I've been using for powder coating since December. This test was done with the new acetone solution. I took bullets that I cast last week; virgin cast from ingots I made last year of 100% COWW (same as all my powder coated bullets). I cleaned them with acetone, let them dry and then gave them the first coat. I used 52 135gr bullets to exactly 1cc of solution. The coat looked decent. I let it dry for 20 minutes and then baked them. I baked them at about 10 minutes at a tad shy of 400%. I let them cool 20 minutes until they were cool to the touch and then re coated. I let them dry for 20 minutes with a fan blowing on them in the 95% heat. I then cooked them another 10 minutes, same temperature. After the second coat, the bullets looked good.This batch passed the wipe test,a nd two bullets passed the smash test. I then sized it to .357 (barrel slugs at .3557 with micrometer) and shot 20 rounds. Absolute failure. Complete lead covering inside. I used Birchwood Casey lead removal cloth patches, and it literally pushed out streaks of lead.
I then took 10 of the same batch and sized it to .358...also a complete failure.

Second new batch test.
Same process as above only I cooked them at 12 minutes instead of 10. Passed the acetone test, and smash test. Failure...leaded up the barrel in 8 shots.

3rd new batch test
Same process as above only I cooked them for 6 minutes when the thermometer reached 400%. Also a failure.

I'm at a loss. I don't know where to go from here. I'm open to suggestions anybody. I'll try whatever...I really want this powder to work...it's much less labor intensive that Powder Coating.
Could it be that I have a bad batch of Powder?
I have also ordered Zombie Green powder from Gateway, and when it gets here next week or so I'll start over using that powder.

[HI-TEK]

So here's an update so far. Today I did a lot of testing, and trying.

I bought brand new Acetone from Lowes and mixed a new batch last night. It was a reduced batch...10 grams of red copper Supercoat powder and 50 ml of acetone; same ratio as the directions on the container only at half amount. I let it set overnight.

Today I mixed up new batches while I was testing the other batches.
Old batch testing:
I shot 125 gr HP and 135gr no-lube-groove in the testing. All of these have passed the acetone wipe test, and the hammer test. All were previous loads that I have shot 1000's of Powder Coat bullets with. All were loaded to the same powder charge (Power Pistol), same Primers (WSP), in the same manner that has been my process thus far. I shot them through a Glock 26 (Lonewolf barrel), Glock 17 (Lonewolf barrel), Glock 34 (stock barrel), and a Smith and Wesson Shield. All were complete failures. The Glock 34 factory barrel was the worse, as you noticed accuracy problems after the 3rd or 4th shot. This was the worst leading I have ever seen. I noticed again that the leading begins an inch into the barrel, and increases until you reach the muzzle end. I guess the extra length of the Glock 34 gave more room for problems.

New batch test (done with Glock 34)
For this test I used only my convection oven, and I verified with two different thermometers; same ones I've been using for powder coating since December. This test was done with the new acetone solution. I took bullets that I cast last week; virgin cast from ingots I made last year of 100% COWW (same as all my powder coated bullets). I cleaned them with acetone, let them dry and then gave them the first coat. I used 52 135gr bullets to exactly 1cc of solution. The coat looked decent. I let it dry for 20 minutes and then baked them. I baked them at about 10 minutes at a tad shy of 400%. I let them cool 20 minutes until they were cool to the touch and then re coated. I let them dry for 20 minutes with a fan blowing on them in the 95% heat. I then cooked them another 10 minutes, same temperature. After the second coat, the bullets looked good.This batch passed the wipe test,a nd two bullets passed the smash test. I then sized it to .357 (barrel slugs at .3557 with micrometer) and shot 20 rounds. Absolute failure. Complete lead covering inside. I used Birchwood Casey lead removal cloth patches, and it literally pushed out streaks of lead.
I then took 10 of the same batch and sized it to .358...also a complete failure.

Second new batch test.
Same process as above only I cooked them at 12 minutes instead of 10. Passed the acetone test, and smash test. Failure...leaded up the barrel in 8 shots.

3rd new batch test
Same process as above only I cooked them for 6 minutes when the thermometer reached 400%. Also a failure.

I'm at a loss. I don't know where to go from here. I'm open to suggestions anybody. I'll try whatever...I really want this powder to work...it's much less labor intensive that Powder Coating.
Could it be that I have a bad batch of Powder?
I have also ordered Zombie Green powder from Gateway, and when it gets here next week or so I'll start over using that powder.

Thanks for tour post.
Just to clarify things, all the powders were pre-tested before they were sent to the US.
They all coated well, shot well, without any problems.
My initial request are,
1, Do you use any mold release agents?
2. If you can please send a photo of first coat, before and after first coat bake.
Also, I am suspecting, that the first coat was not dried adequately, and you may have added too much coating with first coat, which also would prevent complete drying.
(It may "feel dry" but "feel" can also be misleading)
If this first inadequately dried coat is then baked, you may have a pass with solvent test and smash test, but no or poor adhesion to alloy.
3. What volumes of the mixture to projectile number are you using?
4. Have you sized a couple after first or second coat was done? What was results?
Would be happy to assist with solving any problems.

[Beetmagnet]

Thanks for tour post.
Just to clarify things, all the powders were pre-tested before they were sent to the US.
They all coated well, shot well, without any problems.
My initial request are,
1, Do you use any mold release agents?
2. If you can please send a photo of first coat, before and after first coat bake.
Also, I am suspecting, that the first coat was not dried adequately, and you may have added too much coating with first coat, which also would prevent complete drying.
(It may "feel dry" but "feel" can also be misleading)
If this first inadequately dried coat is then baked, you may have a pass with solvent test and smash test, but no or poor adhesion to alloy.
3. What volumes of the mixture to projectile number are you using?
4. Have you sized a couple after first or second coat was done? What was results?
Would be happy to assist with solving any problems.

Thanks for the reply. I don't think the powder is a problem...its got to be something I'm doing.

1 - No release agents for any reason ever. The molds I use drop bullets reliably. I drop them into a tin with paper towels. I then swish them in a sealed jar of acetone after they have cooled. Then when they're dry I put them in sealed plastic containers until I need to Powder Coat (in this case Hi-Tek coat). If need be I can recast some fresh bullets come Wednesday to coat.
2- 114266114267114269I think this pic is before initial bake, then after first bake, then after 2nd bake. Sorry for the poor lighting. I'll get some better pics tomorrow and post them.
3 - 52 135gr projectiles (7020grs...20 grs over a pound) added to 1cc of solution. The solution is exactly 20 grams/powder to 100ml acetone.
4 - I have sized all the bullets after the second coat and there was no flaking. Sized much like my PC bullets. It left the base looking a little shiny.

I'm going to attempt to get much better pics. Anymore testing will have to wait till Wednesday when I get a day off. Until then, I'm going to coat a few batches, and let them dry overnight. Then bake...cool off...coat...and let them sit overnight. If improper drying is the problem, I'll find out Wednesday. And just in case, I'll cast some brand new bullets.

Thank you very much for the help. I'm hoping to show these babies off to the guys at the USPSA match the first week of September.

[Moonman]

Beet,

Why the Acetone bath after casting, NOT NEEDED.

I think Ausglock has stated that MIXING SMALL BATCHES of HI-TEK

is not the best way to go, possibly mix up more solution, it will keep.

[Beetmagnet]

Beet,

Why the Acetone bath after casting, NOT NEEDED.

I think Ausglock has stated that MIXING SMALL BATCHES of HI-TEK

is not the best way to go, possibly mix up more solution, it will keep.

Those are strictly for the bullets I intend to Powder Coat. I just happened to cast a whole bunch, and that's what I'm working off of. Back in the Spring I had a run of bullets that the Powder Coat was flaking off. So I started cleaning them before I Powder Coated the bullets and the problem went away. I believe in the end the problem was actually pollen on the bullets.

[HI-TEK]

Those are strictly for the bullets I intend to Powder Coat. I just happened to cast a whole bunch, and that's what I'm working off of. Back in the Spring I had a run of bullets that the Powder Coat was flaking off. So I started cleaning them before I Powder Coated the bullets and the problem went away. I believe in the end the problem was actually pollen on the bullets.


Just another quick question?
What type of alloy are you using?
I have seen some alloys form some sort of white dusty oxidation on surfaces after casting.
We investigated poor adhesion using these type of alloys, and, what ever is causing this, also interfered with coating adhesion.

[jayjay1]

...

Please excuse me for joining in this conversation.

I just wanted to ask HI-TEK coating if you will ship to Germany?
Over here many dynamic shooters (IPSC, 3gun and Steel Shooters) are using coated bullets from Ares, others are not available, and here is no offerer for any coating.

I really want to test the coating-thingy, would you send one unit to me too?


Best regards,
Jay

[Ausglock]

BM. Pull a loaded round with a inertia hammer. Look for shaved coating. Or if you are using a Lee Carbide factory crimp die, Don't use it. They cause the problem you have. I use Power pistol in G17 and G34 (5gn with a coated 125gn Pill)

[HI-TEK]

Please excuse me for joining in this conversation.

I just wanted to ask HI-TEK coating if you will ship to Germany?
Over here many dynamic shooters (IPSC, 3gun and Steel Shooters) are using coated bullets from Ares, others are not available, and here is no offerer for any coating.

I really want to test the coating-thingy, would you send one unit to me too?


Best regards,
Jay

Hi Jay,
Thanks for your asking.
I have seen the Ares coatings.
The HI-TEK coating, powdered version, has been sent to many countries.
If you can send me a private message, I can reply to your questions.

[Beetmagnet]

Just another quick question?
What type of alloy are you using?
I have seen some alloys form some sort of white dusty oxidation on surfaces after casting.
We investigated poor adhesion using these type of alloys, and, what ever is causing this, also interfered with coating adhesion.

I use 100% COWW. The white powder is lead oxide. Leave it out where moisture can get to it and lead alloy will form lead oxide eventually.

[Beetmagnet]

BM. Pull a loaded round with a inertia hammer. Look for shaved coating. Or if you are using a Lee Carbide factory crimp die, Don't use it. They cause the problem you have. I use Power pistol in G17 and G34 (5gn with a coated 125gn Pill)

I'll check that this weekend.

[HATCH]

Beetmagnet, try one tablespoon of powder to 50 ml. Tablespoon is 15 grams

[HI-TEK]

I use 100% COWW. The white powder is lead oxide. Leave it out where moisture can get to it and lead alloy will form lead oxide eventually.

Thanks for reply.
My understanding is that Lead forms coloured Oxides, and which I dont think that they are white.
The white powder that may be formed may be a basic Lead Carbonate as an alternative possibility.
We suspected Zinc, Cadmium or similar metals that form white oxides with moisture.
We do know, that alloys that seem to form such powdery surface seems reactive, and negatively against coating adhesion.

[Beetmagnet]

Thanks for reply.
My understanding is that Lead forms coloured Oxides, and which I dont think that they are white.
The white powder that may be formed may be a basic Lead Carbonate as an alternative possibility.

We suspected Zinc, Cadmium or similar metals that form white oxides with moisture.
We do know, that alloys that seem to form such powdery surface seems reactive, and negatively against coating adhesion.

I melt all my COWW at 650%...so zinc doesn't get in my alloy. I don't think it will be my problem. Just to make sure Wednesday I'll make some new ingots, and cast some of new alloy and test them

[Love Life]

Try 1 tbs of powder to 6-7 tbs of acetone. I use a vet syringe and use 5ml to coat 3 handfuls of boolits (doesn't matter caliber, I just throw in 3 handfuls). I toss the boolits in, squirt the coating in, and tumble for about 30 seconds or so, or right until sound changes, then dump. I let dry overnight usually as I cast and coat throughout the week.

Sometimes I get shaving during seating, but it hasn't mattered. I have clean barrels using both polygonal and standard rifled barrels.

For the powder HI-TEK coating I bake at 18 minutes at 410-ish. I've actually baked up to 25 minutes without failure, but 18 minutes works and it saves me some time.

Works like a charm. I'd say check your throats, but you had success with PC and you had leading with dry-tek in a factory glock barrel I'm head scratching here. The acetone I use comes in the blue and yellow metal container.

[jayjay1]

May I ask another question, please?
I got and have read the description from J&M.

Just to get that right, if there is written "solvent" you mean the Aceton, correct?

[Love Life]

Yes, acetone.

[Michael J. Spangler]

ok so the last batch of reloading i did i had to switch my powder on my 45 ACP. i switched the red dot from bullseye
i also tried upping the powder in my 38s a little
45 acp 454-200 HP MP mold with 5 grains red dot
38 special 358156 with 4 grains of bullseye
both cast with 50/50 COWW & Pure coated twice with hi-tek gold

i noticed a bunch of fouling (need to check to see if its lead or what) in both the 686 and my 625.

i haven changed anything in my coating process, so i'm wondering if the red dot (bumped up a bit my from old bullseye charge) and the bumped up charge in the 38s could cause this even with the hi-tek.
The boolits look beautiful and pass a severe smash and acetone test. i'm wondering if there is a way to test for good adhesion. i don't let them dry super long after coating, but i do keep them in front of a fan for 5 or so minutes to speed the process up. i would think if i had adhesion problems it would have showed up sooner.
I'm going to my shop tomorrow and i'm planning on rebuking all of the sized cast boolits and water dropping them to see if the added hardness helps.
I know that the 38 load is a +p and the 45 acp load is approaching 900 fps according to the books.

what do you guys think? am i asking too much of my frugal alloy or do i suck at coating? i'll get some pics of the coated bullets right now

[Michael J. Spangler]

Batch
Side of smashed
Bottom of smashed.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll105/MJSpangler/Casting/DA009A82-EA68-42F6-8D25-6FC6E3708AD8_zps73lajfmq.jpg (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/MJSpangler/media/Casting/DA009A82-EA68-42F6-8D25-6FC6E3708AD8_zps73lajfmq.jpg.html)

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll105/MJSpangler/Casting/87F7A74B-4920-4F44-9E59-5811E68BB152_zpssqqxepmp.jpg (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/MJSpangler/media/Casting/87F7A74B-4920-4F44-9E59-5811E68BB152_zpssqqxepmp.jpg.html)

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll105/MJSpangler/Casting/7F26D615-BAC2-46D4-8EF6-1A56D0D4557C_zpskcpr1epc.jpg (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/MJSpangler/media/Casting/7F26D615-BAC2-46D4-8EF6-1A56D0D4557C_zpskcpr1epc.jpg.html)

[Ausglock]

Looks fine to me. I use range reclaim for my 45 pills. about 10/11 BHN on the Lee hardness tester. No issues at all.

[Michael J. Spangler]

How fast are you pushing them?
What powder are you using? If it's not something we have in the US what could you compare it to?
I hear red dot can get a little spikey at the higher end of the load data

[Moonman]

Love Life,

It looks like you're INCREASING THE BAKE TIME, with the

Dry Mix HI-TEK (18 mins) over the previous bake times of

10-12 minutes for the older liquid mix (5/1/7) stuff.

Is this correct?

[Love Life]

Correct in that I increased my bake time. I had success with bake times as low as 8 minutes for 35 caliber stuff and as low as 12 minutes with 40 and 45 caliber stuff (Using powder HI-TEK). However, the increased bake time was brought on by there always being a bit of color left on the rag during swipe test. I made it up to 25 minutes and never tested beyond there, but still got color on the rag. However, even though I got color on the rag the boolits still shot accurately and there was zero leading in the 38 special, 357 mag, 10mm full snort, and 45 acp.

I settled in on 18 minutes just cuz' and now water drop...also just cuz'.

Of course that was living in 17% humidity on average. Now my humidity hovers between 70% and 90%. I'll see if anything changes.

[HI-TEK]

Correct in that I increased my bake time. I had success with bake times as low as 8 minutes for 35 caliber stuff and as low as 12 minutes with 40 and 45 caliber stuff (Using powder HI-TEK). However, the increased bake time was brought on by there always being a bit of color left on the rag during swipe test. I made it up to 25 minutes and never tested beyond there, but still got color on the rag. However, even though I got color on the rag the boolits still shot accurately and there was zero leading in the 38 special, 357 mag, 10mm full snort, and 45 acp.

I settled in on 18 minutes just cuz' and now water drop...also just cuz'.

Of course that was living in 17% humidity on average. Now my humidity hovers between 70% and 90%. I'll see if anything changes.

How are you doing Love Life?
Thanks for your posts.
Just curious as to which coloured powdered coating gave you wipe off stain on cloth after bake?
Most curious results with colour stain after cooking for 8-12 minutes and up to 25 minutes.
Cooking for 25 minutes would have made an extremely hard polymer, and, your colour would also be much darker.
Did these over cooked ones size OK?

[Love Life]

The over cooked ones sized just as easily as the correctly cooked ones. The powder I have is labeled Red 2F2RK.

As I said, the color transfer was minimal and no performance degradation was noticed during the coating, sizing, loading, or shooting process.

The color was much darker after baking, but as I said they all shot fine at all temperature levels. I even tested with the following powder:acetone ratios...1:3, 1:4, 1:5, 1:6, 1:7.

I settled in on 1:6 as it coated really well and was more accurate than the other ratios.

Pretty neat stuff to be honest.

Also, with the powder I didn't do the shake to mix colors. I used a glass mixing jar with a glass stir rod.

[HI-TEK]

The over cooked ones sized just as easily as the correctly cooked ones. The powder I have is labeled Red 2F2RK.

As I said, the color transfer was minimal and no performance degradation was noticed during the coating, sizing, loading, or shooting process.

The color was much darker after baking, but as I said they all shot fine at all temperature levels. I even tested with the following powder:acetone ratios...1:3, 1:4, 1:5, 1:6, 1:7.

I settled in on 1:6 as it coated really well and was more accurate than the other ratios.

Pretty neat stuff to be honest.

Also, with the powder I didn't do the shake to mix colors. I used a glass mixing jar with a glass stir rod.

Thanks for quick reply.
With some of the Red colours, I did suspect that due to very high loading of colour into resin, that not all the colour may be trapped into the coating, and stain amounts of colour may be able to be leached out with solvent test..
The resin should not be removed with solvent test.
The whole idea of solvent testing, was to determine at what point coatings were deemed set enough after cook, to allow application of second or third coats without stripping off previous coat.

This test was established as guideline, so we did not get subsequent coatings to become a paint stripper of under cured previous coatings.
As long as coating is bonded well and cured adequately, any minimal colour obtained with solvent test should be not a problem.
I am surprised at the heat tolerance of the coating that you had found by cooking to such long periods.
We had never investigated that aspect.
Recently, Ausglock, did some testing with extra cook times, and he found that he also got good results without any Leading or flaking of extended cooked coatings.
You also now have confirmed Ausglocks findings as well.
Thanks much.

[Love Life]

I would even say that being able to bake that long should aid in the whole water dropping and gaining/getting back hardness thingy-ma-bob.

I don't know what the upper tier on bake time is as I stopped testing once I had established what I considered a good window to work within. Then I went shooting...and kept going shooting!!!

Maybe somebody else can test the top end of bake times and see if the addition of a harder coating along with the ability to do a good heat treat bake time and water dump might do for rifle stuff.

All I know is the Dry-Tek is easier to work with, looks better, applies better, and overall is a better product to me. The difference in coating qualities is immediately noticeable. The 3 part liquid system coats like a stain...almost like a vinaigrette oil/water look.

The dry-tek coats like a paint. I also believe that you could probably further dilute higher than a 1:7 ratio, or use less than 5ml to coat about 3 lbs of boolits as I ended up with left over coating in the bottom of my tumbler bowl. All I do there is when I toss fresh boolits in is I tumble them in the residual coating left by the last batch of boolits.

I coat thick though as I like my boolits to be good looking!!

[Ausglock]

Well.. I have been testing some new Dry-Tek coatings for HI-TEK Joe.
He now has a very nice Olive Drab green, a Nice Rose Red and hopefully tomorrow when I bake the second coat a nice shiny Deep Purple... woohoo... Smoke on the water :happy dance:

[Stephen Cohen]

You can scrub out zinc as a problem for adhesion, I shot some 50 zinc contaminated cast projectiles in my 458 wm 2 days ago, the coating stood up well I got no leading at all and barrel was clean, only needed one patch run through it.

[leadman]

I also ran into the boolits with a white powder on them that appeared right after casting. I then fluxed this batch of alloy with root killer (copper sulfate) and it helped but then I had to add some pewter to the alloy to get it to fill out the molds well.

I did try cleaning some boolits that had the white powder on them with acetone but found it tedious and had to use a toothbrush to get it all off.
Could this be calcium from batteries? I was using mostly isotope container alloy at the time but who knows for sure what is in these.

I still tthin beetlemagnet should check his barrels by starting a boolit in the rifling in front of the chamber to see if it is cutting the coating. One of the barrels that was found defective was a Lone Wolf.

[DrBill33]

Has anyone weighed the liquid coated to see how much weight is added?

[Ausglock]

Has anyone weighed the liquid coated to see how much weight is added?
In a .452 230gn RN Hardline bullet the weight of the coating was un-measurable to 10ths of a grain.

[DrBill33]

Thanks!!!! Lost all of my cast bullets to some person or persons unknown. Now casting again, and hope to do my first coating soon.

Aus: I have been using a self alloy of approximately Lyman #2. I range, per batch of 120 pounds, at 14.56 to 15.3. Have you found that with Hi-Tek a lower BHN will do?

[Ausglock]

G'day Doc.
10 to 12 range reclaim is what I use for 44 and 45
I use store bought 2.6.92 alloy for 38/357, 9mm, 40.
I did try some 8BHN for 45 with 2 coats and it did work ok. 10-12 is easier to come by for me. A bloke I know has the contract to clean out an indoor range about 3 hrs away.

[jgieske]

So is the Dry Tek available yet or still in the testing phase? If so, would someone be kind enough to bring me up to speed? Sorry, I'm a lurker who hasn't been lurking much lately. I'm new to casting and would like to start out with the Dry-Tek.

[Michael J. Spangler]

i think i figured out my issue.
seemed some of the 45s the coating was not adhering. i had a bunch in bins from multiple sessions of coating and casting. every 5th or 6th one didn't pass the smash test. weird but somehow i screwed up a batch along the way and mixed them all in.
agh well there goes 30 pounds of cast and coated back to the melting furnace. better luck next time. guess i'll pay more careful attention and make sure not to mix random batches together.

[Love Life]

Always test one from the new batch before dumping it into the ready to load can.

[HI-TEK]

So is the Dry Tek available yet or still in the testing phase? If so, would someone be kind enough to bring me up to speed? Sorry, I'm a lurker who hasn't been lurking much lately. I'm new to casting and would like to start out with the Dry-Tek.

The Dry-Tek is available, both in small and commercial amounts.
Where is your location?
May be you can send me a PM and I can advise you further.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I always test a bunch.
I think I had some bullets that were contaminated with bees wax or mold lube.
That would explain why it was only a few here and there mixed in. I guess I didn't catch any of them on the wipe and smash test.
I was very thorough today after that whole ordeal.
Can't wait to try the water dropped 40s to see if that stopped the leading.

[Ausglock]

What do you use for mold lube?
I only use the HI-TEK Super500+. Designed to not cause issues with the coating.

[Love Life]

I use bull plate exclusively for mould lube. I just keep it out of the cavities and have no issues...

[Michael J. Spangler]

I need to order some of the hi tek stuff.
I ran out of bull plate so tried a few things over the past couple of weeks.
Actually bees wax on the slider pins of a Cramer style mold works like a charm.
I always have bits and crumbs of the stuff all over my casting bench though. Not a good idea.

[Beetmagnet]

2. If you can please send a photo of first coat, before and after first coat bake.
Also, I am suspecting, that the first coat was not dried adequately, and you may have added too much coating with first coat, which also would prevent complete drying.
(It may "feel dry" but "feel" can also be misleading)
If this first inadequately dried coat is then baked, you may have a pass with solvent test and smash test, but no or poor adhesion to alloy.
3. What volumes of the mixture to projectile numb.

Alright... busy weekend, but I coated two more batches Friday night, let them dry for 48 hours, and baked them Sunday night. Below is pics of coating before first bake, after first bake, and after second coating before baking I'll size them Wednesday and shoot them.

Again...I appreciate the help114463
114464
114465

[Ausglock]

So.. you are mixing 20gms of powder to 100mls of acetone?
Your blotchy coating suggests that you are not mixing correctly. You need to mix and shake for a few minutes. let sit for 1/2 hour and then shake again to ensure that the powder is fully dissolved.
It also looks like you are shaking the bullets too long. 15 to 20 seconds is all the shake shake shake that is needed. any more and the coated bullets look like yours.
The red copper you are using was tested by me before it got shipped to the USA. It worked perfectly with the ratios I stated above.
Forget spoons for measuring. Get a set of digi scales ($5 off ebay) that weigh in grains and grams. Get a measureing cup graduated in mls.
For the life of me.. I cannot understand why the US has not moved to the Metric system.. it is so easy to use.

[Love Life]

The coating looks porous and bubbly. Looks like you didn't let them dry long enough before baking.

[Love Life]

That is good to hear Popper. DO you have a hardness tester? If so, have you tested a naked boolit and then a coated boolit? Did the hardness tester register the coating or punch right through and give you the alloy reading?

[Beetmagnet]

So.. you are mixing 20gms of powder to 100mls of acetone?
Your blotchy coating suggests that you are not mixing correctly. You need to mix and shake for a few minutes. let sit for 1/2 hour and then shake again to ensure that the powder is fully dissolved.
It also looks like you are shaking the bullets too long. 15 to 20 seconds is all the shake shake shake that is needed. any more and the coated bullets look like yours.
The red copper you are using was tested by me before it got shipped to the USA. It worked perfectly with the ratios I stated above.
Forget spoons for measuring. Get a set of digi scales ($5 off ebay) that weigh in grains and grams. Get a measureing cup graduated in mls.
For the life of me.. I cannot understand why the US has not moved to the Metric system.. it is so easy to use.

I have two digi scales that measure in grams, and two glass measuring jars that have ml measurement up to 200ml. The measurement was exactly 20 grams of powder to 100 ml acetone, so the mixture is not off. You're probably right about overshaking. I'll take your advice for sure. I'm hoping that Hi-Teks idea that they weren't properly dried is my problem, but I'll have to wait till Wednesday to fin d out.

Thanks for your input.

[Love Life]

I use measuring spoons. One level measuring spoon of powder and 6 measuring spoons of acetone. Works like a charm and is enough to double coat a big pile of boolits.

[Beetmagnet]

The coating looks porous and bubbly. Looks like you didn't let them dry long enough before baking.

Trying to type on a cell phone is maddening.
Sorry...let me correct. The first pic above is is first coat done Friday night. The second pic is after first bake Sunday night, and the third pic is after second coat Sunday night. I haven't baked it a second time yet. I'll do that Tuesday night.
That's 48 hours drying time for each coat. If Hi-Tek is right, I'll know Wednesday

[jayjay1]

Why would someone PC if he can tumblecoat?

I have no idea, so I´m just asking.

[HATCH]

Beetmagnet, your coating looks fine to me.
Only thing that I don't understand is why the bases aren't completely coated?
48 hrs is overkill. If coated properly the acetone will evaporate within 30 mins.

[Beetmagnet]

Beetmagnet, your coating looks fine to me.
Only thing that I don't understand is why the bases aren't completely coated?
48 hrs is overkill. If coated properly the acetone will evaporate within 30 mins.

Overkill indeed. That was because of my time constraints. I just haven't been home.

[Moonman]

I just mixed up some DRY POWDER "BLACK 1035" HI-TEK

(black with gold speckles) from Gateway Bullets.

I used Ausglock's suggestion and weighed out on a digital scale 20 GRAMS, not grains and added

100 ml of Acetone measured with large 60 ml syringe into a plastic COKE bottle (8 oz bottle).

Shake/Shake/Shake, then wait 5 minutes and Shake/Shake/Shake some more.


I coated 3 POUNDS of 115 grain pills and 3 pounds of 135 grain pills with 3/4 teaspoon

(3.7 ml) of mixed coating per each 3 pound batch of projectiles.

I SWIRLED in a plastic Cool-Whip container for 20 seconds then

poured them out onto my drying racks.

The projectiles are from 9 MM molds by HARDLINE INDUSTRIES and have NO LUBE GROOVES.


I will dry overnight, BAKE, then recoat, bake/size then load this weekend.

For looks, I'm loading some into NICKLE CASES,

the Black and Gold Speckles should shine.

I may try to WATERDROP after the second bake, the alloy is made up Lyman #2.

Brinell hardness with Cabine Tree tester is currently 15/16.


My oven is a BREVILLE convection "SMART OVEN".

I also have some DRY POWDER "ZOMBIE GREEN" to try next.

[Michael J. Spangler]

water dropped about 1500 358156 after the second bake yesterday.
coffee can in the back seat of my car.... tipped over....
i dug about 500 out of crevices in the seat and under the seat. won't do that again. i hope whoever buys my car likes to reload, because they're going to have plenty to work with

on a brighter note, the bullets coated and cast last night look awesome. lots of sampling showed no issues with coating at all

does anyone have some pictures of the black 1035? i would love to see some nice quality pics of how it comes out. i think thats going to be the next color i order

[HI-TEK]

water dropped about 1500 358156 after the second bake yesterday.
coffee can in the back seat of my car.... tipped over....
i dug about 500 out of crevices in the seat and under the seat. won't do that again. i hope whoever buys my car likes to reload, because they're going to have plenty to work with

on a brighter note, the bullets coated and cast last night look awesome. lots of sampling showed no issues with coating at all

does anyone have some pictures of the black 1035? i would love to see some nice quality pics of how it comes out. i think thats going to be the next color i order


Glad you have had success.

The Black 1035 is Texas Tea.
OMJ should have some stock, and am wondering if he has any photos of coated alloy.
May be you can ask him.
This colour has a black coating with Gold bright flecks embedded. Very nice colour.

[Michael J. Spangler]

a buddy of mine ordered some from gateway a little over a week ago. can't wait to see it when he gets it in.
i might have to steal some from him ; )

[HI-TEK]

a buddy of mine ordered some from gateway a little over a week ago. can't wait to see it when he gets it in.
i might have to steal some from him ; )

It may be prudent if you let him do the coating and baking and then take the finished product, and, you can tell him/her, that you are taking it for trials and approval.....lol...lol

[Michael J. Spangler]

good point.... i'll tell him they need to be inspected and fired by someone with more experience with the product than a mere NOOB like himself. of course it would take several thousand to really test the highs and lows of it all.

good idea.

[Avenger442]

HI-TEK Joe,
Was just wondering if you have used a magnetic stirrer like they use in labs to combine the ingredients and if it would be good for that purpose? I can pick one up for about $30.

[Ausglock]

Somebody ask Joe to put up the photo of the Pink he now has. I would. But I don't want to steal his thunder. :-)
It still needs tweeking. But it looks the goods.

[HI-TEK]

HI-TEK Joe,
Was just wondering if you have used a magnetic stirrer like they use in labs to combine the ingredients and if it would be good for that purpose? I can pick one up for about $30.


They are great and that is cheap.
They are very expensive here, but every thing is.
I have a magnetic stirrer that can handle a 3 inch by 1/2 inch Teflon coated magnet.
I can stir 5 litre liquids in a flat bottomed container.
I paid for it, as second hand unit, $160.00
Just ensure, that when using these, make use that you use flat bottom tightly sealable containers, as you have flammable liquids and potential spark from switches and speed controllers.
The magnet, can also act as a mixer/rattler, like in paint cans.
Great idea.

[HI-TEK]

Somebody ask Joe to put up the photo of the Pink he now has. I would. But I don't want to steal his thunder. :-)
It still needs tweeking. But it looks the goods.

As requested, here they are.... Pink...... (unfortunately it does not sing... lol lol)
After cook, it has a slight solvent bleed with test, but insignificant, and passes smash test extremely well.
These are with two coats using new powdered coating version..

Ausglock, now, may be you can "reveal", your detailed test coating procedures.

114538114539

[Stephen Cohen]

Pink is not my colour but they do look great, I receive a lot of interest at the club when I open my ammo boxes. I can see this coating taking over from the old lubes, it is funny how few know that the coating is available for hobby use.

[Ausglock]

Nothing special in the application.
20gms to 100mls Acetone.
250 bullets in the pot 7 mls of coating. shake shake shake.
Let dry bake at 200 Deg C for 12 minutes.
Easy.
There is very slight wipeoff but nothing to worry about. Smash test passes with flying colours.
I think Joe can tweak it by reducing the colour loading in the powder. This should lighten the colour and may prevent the wipeoff.

There is also a grass Green powder too. It also needs tweaking. It needed 3 coats to give good coverage.
Also a new version of the Zombie green. It is more light green and worked perfectly with 2 coats.

The purple also worked when mixed with pure liquid resin. Joe needs to play with this to reduce the colour loading by 75%.l It is very deep purple. Looks sweet.

[Moonman]

Coated some more 9 MM this morning with HI-TEK DRY POWDER Texas Tea

(Black with Gold Specks), using Ausglock's method.

20 GRAMS powder weighed on a digital scale, 100 ml Acetone,

SHAKE/SHAKE/SHAKE, WAIT 5 MINUTES, SHAKE/SHAKE/SHAKE.

ADD;

250 pills and 7 ml of mixed Texas Tea, Swirl/Shake 20 seconds, dump on racks.

Love Life is correct, the older liquid mix coats more as a STAIN, the

new DRY MIX coats more as a PAINT, wear your gloves.

[Love Life]

Moonman, can you post some pictures of the black powder based coating?

Anybody getting their powder from Bayou Bullets.

[HATCH]

Black 1035
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/26/740ff1b45356acc534338da9521174ba.jpg

[jayjay1]

HI TEK goes Germany!
[smilie=w: :mrgreen:

[Love Life]

This just in!! A major bullet company has started using powder coating...not.

Suck it powder coat, HT is the bomb.

[Moonman]

Love Life, No Camera or Knowledge.

As of a couple weeks ago Donnie at Bayou was advising

customers looking for the DRY POWDER to contact

Gateway Bullets as his dry powder order had not arrived

in the USA as of yet, I don't know present status at Bayou.

[Moonman]

Hatch,

Maybe it's the camera.

Are you using the new DRY POWDER BLACK 1035 or the older wet mix?

I just put the second coat of DRY MIX BLACK 1035 on mine and it

appear to be slightly BLACKER than yours. (20 GRAMS powder, 100 ml Acetone).

I'm using 7-7 1/2 ml on 6 pounds of 9 MM pills.

[Love Life]

An update.

I shot some coated bullets today at 88F and 80% humidity at like zero ft above sea level. They shot to the same POA/POI as they did at 5500 ft above sea level, 80F, and 17% humidity. They shot the same in sub zero temperatures as well.

I originally coated these bullets in Nevada during the winter.

[jayjay1]

If working with a normal kitchen convection oven, can´t you use two grid layers, one above the other, to speed things up?

Or would that take to much heat out of it?

[HATCH]

If working with a normal kitchen convection oven, can´t you use two grid layers, one above the other, to speed things up?

Or would that take to much heat out of it?

You mean putting in two trays on top of each other??
I have done that. I increased the "cook" time by 50 %
Make sure you are doing Convection cooking. It has the fan to blow the air around in the oven.

[Ausglock]

2 trays in the same oven gave hit and miss curing. The bullets at the corners of the trays were not cured while the rest of the bullets were. however... the colour was dark on the top tray and lighter on the bottom. both top and bottom heating elements were used.
I only do 1 tray at a time

[Beetmagnet]

Sorry guys no test results... just kidney stones and morphine.
No shape to be handling guns.

[jayjay1]

Things seem to run.
Got an used kitchen convection oven, and some measure cups an a trash market here.

Some copper red and apple candy red are on their way.

Is this the way to go now?


Nothing special in the application.
20gms to 100mls Acetone.


What happened to the catalyst so?

For how much pistol boolits will this reach?

Did you ever trying coat a bunch and let them lie for a while, then baked them some times later?
Shouldn´t be a problem I suppose?

Can´t wait to start it.
:mrgreen:

[Ausglock]

The Catalyst is already in the powder.
For 250 bullet use 6 to 7 mls of coating.
I have had coated bullets sitting for over a week before baking. no problem. baked fine.

[HATCH]

If you are using the powder version the catalyst is already mixed in the powder. It doesn't activate until the acetone dissolves it.

You can coat them and let them sit for years before you bake without any issues.
Just hope you don't forget that they aren't baked or if its the 1st coat or 2nd coat.

[jayjay1]

Ausglock and HATCH:

You are doing a good work here, without getting anything.
I appreciate this very much.

So I want to thank you, inspite of spending you a beer, which would cost me 1-2 month wages otherwise.

Thanks a lot for your support!!!
:drinks::drinks:

[Ausglock]

No worries JJ.

[Moonman]

In the Process of coating 9 MM pills using DRY POWDER,

ZOMBIE GREEN and TEXAS TEA (black with gold specks).

I do like working with the powder better.

20 GRAMS of powder (digital scale weighed), 100 ml ACETONE,

Placed in a small "COKE" BOTTLE, SHAKEN, then Shaken well

again in about 5 minutes.



My stuff seems to separate somewhat quickly, so shake, measure out,

and coat with Shaking/Swirling method in a plastic COOL-WHIP topping

container. I'm doing 6 pounds with 7- 7 1/2 ml per coat coating

(measuring spoons). Doing 2 coats BLACK, 3 coats ZOMBIE GREEN.

I'm baking a 400 F for 12 to 15 minutes (still testing bake times).

Ausglock uses a 12 minute bake time, Love Life has used up to 18.



Coating/Drying is done in a Temp Controlled atmosphere 72 degrees,

Then taken to a garage located Breville SMART OVEN oven and baked.

Drying time from several hours to overnight, I'm in no hurry, just having fun.

MY THANKS to HI-TEK Joe, Ausglock, and Love Life along with

all the other testers. My Powders are from Gateway Bullets (USA),

My LIQUID FORMULAS were from Donnie at BAYOU BULLETS (USA).


I also shoot already coated projectiles I purchased from Bayou and

SNS CASTING, I have Red/Copper, Brick Red, Dark Green, Gold

from those suppliers and all work as advertised.

[Eviltoy]

Can you perhaps post a picture of the texas tea powder? Are the flakes noticeable or does it look jetblack?

[Moonman]

Eviltoy,

I don't do photos, sorry.

The gold specks DO NOT JUMP OUT AT YOU,

you need to look closely at them.

I wouldn't really call it a GLOSSY JET BLACK either,

it just looks like a nice BLACK to me.

Not sure about the ZOMBIE GREEN YET,

I'll do the 3rd bake shortly and see my final color.

I think Ausglock may have the better GREEN saved for

himself and HIS AUSTRALIAN SALES, it's called Kryptonite Green,

and he developed it, WET ONLY FORMULA, not a DRY POWDER ONE.

[jayjay1]

20gms to 100mls Acetone.
250 bullets in the pot 7 mls of coating.

All right, reading this I thought, this should be good for 16 times 250 bullets.

So that´s pretty much, 4.000 bullet coatings with one mixture.

Do you coat them all at once?
Baking time 12 minutes, 16 times then.

I´m asking, because I thought about making me 4-6 grid trays to coat the bullets, than put them into the oven one after the other.
I thought this would be easier for a beginner, no time pressure, doing one thing after the other.

But so I would need 16 trays....
[smilie=1:

[Gremlin460]

We keep all the good colours and Trev sends the gay ones overseas... :kidding:

[Ausglock]

Moonman. I have just tested a new green powder. It bakes to almost grass green. very nice. it is a bit darker than the Zombie green..

JJ. you do not need 16 trays. You can do it with 4 trays if you have no time restraints. I have 7 coating trays and 7 baking trays. I will coat to fill all trays with 250 bullets on each. set aside to dry and then transfer them to the baking trays. I then refill the coating trays as they get emptied. As each tray gets baked, it is allowed to cool and then recoated and placed on a coating tray. the circle just keeps going round and round.

[Ausglock]

New colours.
Lipstick Pink, Grass Green, Deep Purple and The old favourite, Zombie Green.
114811

[Ausglock]

I finally got around to completing my Powered sizer.
Gunoil was kind enough to source a Star Bullet feeder for me. Thanks Gunoil.
Gremlin has built his manual feeder/sizer, and it looks the goods.
I swapped the 415 volt 3 phase motor for a 240 volt single phase due to the fact not many places have 3 phase power.

So here it is. Enjoy.

http://vid193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/2014-08-29_17-48-09_137.mp4

[Redwoode]

Very, very nice. Thanks for sharing.

I have one of Gremlin460s manual auto sizers and it's the berries. My bullet volume nowhere near yours.

[jayjay1]

I have 7 coating trays and 7 baking trays. I will coat to fill all trays with 250 bullets on each. set aside to dry and then transfer them to the baking trays. I then refill the coating trays as they get emptied. As each tray gets baked, it is allowed to cool and then recoated and placed on a coating tray. the circle just keeps going round and round.

Ok, coating trays and baking trays seperated.

Why so, because the coating trays get coated?

[HI-TEK]

Ok, coating trays and baking trays seperated.

Why so, because the coating trays get coated?

jayjay1

Until coating if heated, it can be recycled back from surfaces by re-solubilising/washing with solvent.
Once baked, it cannot be recycled.
So, drying racks trays etc, can be washed with solvent, and recycled back as dilution solvent into mixtures.
That way, there is minimal losses by transfer onto surfaces with coatings.
If you use same tray for drying and baking, you will eventually get a high build up of baked coating that is very difficult to remove and is lost product.

[Ausglock]

the only way to remove baked on coating from trays is to use sandpaper.

[zomby woof]

Here's my first attempt with Red Copper dry. I was expecting a little more red. 20 g to 100 ml. I coated three times, 1 1/2 tsp to 5 pounds boolits, 12 minutes in Breville 800 at 390. They had the same color at the 6 minutes tray shake. Is this color close?

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/101_8873.JPG

[HI-TEK]

Here's my first attempt with Red Copper dry. I was expecting a little more red. 20 g to 100 ml. I coated three times, 1 1/2 tsp to 5 pounds boolits, 12 minutes in Breville 800 at 390. They had the same color at the 6 minutes tray shake. Is this color close?

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/101_8873.JPG


These look great.
You have done well.
The colour is fairly typical.
Have you done smash test or sized any after final bake?
I dont know if it is lighting or not, but the ones at bottom at about 7.00 pm position, seem more red than the ones located at 5.00 pm position in the circle.

From this picture I cant fault your first try.

[Ausglock]

Colour is fine. 3 coats is overkill with red/copper.
2 Coats will have them looking a bit lighter.

[Michael J. Spangler]

ok so a buddy got in some black 1035 2 days ago.
we measure out approximately 120 ML because thats what he had handy for a measuring cup. then we weighed out 20 grams on his RCBS scale.
mixed in a glass jar and let sit for 10 or 15 minutes shaking now and then.

we added a little to a plastic contained half full of bullets, put a lid on and shoot it around for 10 second or so.
dumped the coated bullets on a tray and let them dry for 10-15 minutes.
this was done in a very dry cellar with a dehumidifier running all the time.
we baked in a convection oven at 380 for 10 minutes
they passed the wipe test so it was off to the smash test. we squished them in a vise with no issues.
when scraping the coating with my finger i noticed it could be scraped off, but i figured it was just because it was a little different that the gold liquid i had been using.

so they were left to cool down to room temp. coated again and left to dry for 10-15 more minutes.
baked the same way until about 10 minutes when i tested another bullet, passed wipe and smash test then pulled the whole batch.

they looked good and we called it quits for the night (around 11pm)

so today my buddy tried to size the bullets in a less push through sizer and the coating is rubbing off. he said they're a little tough to get through the sizer, as he is trying to size down about .002" or maybe a touch more on the 38s.

now i've coated thousands of bullets in all shapes and sizes with the liquid gold hi-tek with no issues. now all these issues with this new fangled powder.

so what could i be doing wrong? i know it's me and my method and not the powder. i can't think of anything that i'm doing different, they passed all the tests

help me!

[HI-TEK]

ok so a buddy got in some black 1035 2 days ago.
we measure out approximately 120 ML because thats what he had handy for a measuring cup. then we weighed out 20 grams on his RCBS scale.
mixed in a glass jar and let sit for 10 or 15 minutes shaking now and then.

we added a little to a plastic contained half full of bullets, put a lid on and shoot it around for 10 second or so.
dumped the coated bullets on a tray and let them dry for 10-15 minutes.
this was done in a very dry cellar with a dehumidifier running all the time.
we baked in a convection oven at 380 for 10 minutes
they passed the wipe test so it was off to the smash test. we squished them in a vise with no issues.
when scraping the coating with my finger i noticed it could be scraped off, but i figured it was just because it was a little different that the gold liquid i had been using.

so they were left to cool down to room temp. coated again and left to dry for 10-15 more minutes.
baked the same way until about 10 minutes when i tested another bullet, passed wipe and smash test then pulled the whole batch.

they looked good and we called it quits for the night (around 11pm)

so today my buddy tried to size the bullets in a less push through sizer and the coating is rubbing off. he said they're a little tough to get through the sizer, as he is trying to size down about .002" or maybe a touch more on the 38s.

now i've coated thousands of bullets in all shapes and sizes with the liquid gold hi-tek with no issues. now all these issues with this new fangled powder.

so what could i be doing wrong? i know it's me and my method and not the powder. i can't think of anything that i'm doing different, they passed all the tests

help me!

What you describe is OK.
The only thing that I can suggest, that may be a problem is, that you may have not dried coating enough, and possibly not hot and long enough.
With inadequate drying, the coating will cure with heat, but you may not get best adhesion.
Drying stage, (especially with first coat) is most important with both coating systems.

Can I suggest that you place drying mesh/tray on top of your oven with air gap, to gently warm dry coating before baking.
Set your temperature to about 400F and bake at that a few for 10-12 minutes and compare results.

Just to confirm things, with powder and liquid coatings, they both have same ingredients.
The only thing that is different is, that with powders, there is no solvent.

Some commercial Acetone, may contain more moisture, which also has to be dried off during drying, as this moisture is trapped inside coating which feels dry, but the "dry feel" is deceptive and can be misleading.

Did you test first coat with smash test and solvent test before coating a second time?

[zomby woof]

These look great.
You have done well.
The colour is fairly typical.
Have you done smash test or sized any after final bake?
I dont know if it is lighting or not, but the ones at bottom at about 7.00 pm position, seem more red than the ones located at 5.00 pm position in the circle.

From this picture I can fault your first try.

The smash and wipe test passed after each coat. I sized a couple just to see how they looked. I can't wait to try them out.

[Michael J. Spangler]

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll105/MJSpangler/Casting/A1CD9B74-5645-4E5D-9181-4F8987660DA6_zpssspxpzmw.jpg (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/MJSpangler/media/Casting/A1CD9B74-5645-4E5D-9181-4F8987660DA6_zpssspxpzmw.jpg.html)

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll105/MJSpangler/Casting/552B6799-57AE-4590-8D43-90E93075535E_zps5f8l6usa.jpg (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/MJSpangler/media/Casting/552B6799-57AE-4590-8D43-90E93075535E_zps5f8l6usa.jpg.html)

i did test after both coats and they seemed fine to me. they're showing signs of poor adhesion during sizing after all of that

i told him to tumble some more tonight and let them sit till tomorrow before he bakes them. maybe that will work

[Avenger442]

Michaael
I had some 45s do the exact same thing. They were coated with liquid 1035 gold. Probably not the powders fault. I assumed that I didn't let them dry long enough. Since the bullets I had coated with the same coating in the same way that were left to dry over night didn't have this problem.

One other thing, when I first coated them they passed the 'smash with a hammer' test. After having the problem with the sizer on part of the bullets I did another smash test on several of them and the coating came off down to the lead...........

Be sure to let us know if the longer dry time works.

Thanks

[Ausglock]

If it doesn't come off during the smash test( Note: Smash means smash....(with a bloody big hammer)...Not squeeze in a vice) Then it has bonded OK.
If it comes off with a fingernail or in a size die, then I'd say the alloy is too soft. you might be actually scraping alloy and coating off...??

I now take a bullet and smash it into a cube... yes a box of lead bullet that is coloured on all sides. that is how it should stick.

[farmerjim]

I use the same trays for drying coated boolits and baking them. I have encountered no problems doing it this way. The amount of coating that comes out of the tub and sticks on the mesh tray is small. Once baked, it is just part of the tray surface. The dried coating that is stuck in the tub is recycled to the next batch. I like to add 1 CC more to the first batch to make up for this. This stuff is just too cheep to worry about recovering what sticks on your drying tray and it does not seem to bother the next batch.

[HI-TEK]

I use the same trays for drying coated boolits and baking them. I have encountered no problems doing it this way. The amount of coating that comes out of the tub and sticks on the mesh tray is small. Once baked, it is just part of the tray surface. The dried coating that is stuck in the tub is recycled to the next batch. I like to add 1 CC more to the first batch to make up for this. This stuff is just too cheep to worry about recovering what sticks on your drying tray and it does not seem to bother the next batch.


How are you doing Farmer Jim,
Thanks for your input.
The "recycling", is mainly suitable/practical for guys that are coating many hundreds of thousands.
I have seen plastic garbage cans lined with 1/2 inch dried coating.
User, then puts in about 1 litre of MEK or Acetone, puts on a lid, with a few projectiles in bin acting like stirrers, and mixes/dissolves coating residues.
Then, pours all of it into a bottle, and marked as wash solvent and used to mix into other batches.
Some, use just solvent and non coated projectiles and use the dried residue to coat, using only solvent, until most is used up.
It is very surprising just how many projectiles can be coated with this built up residue, which can be recycled after being there for many months.
Happy coating indeed.

[farmerjim]

Thanks Hi-Tek. Love your product. I guess I am just too small of a coating user for this to be of use for me.
I have always washed out my coating tub with acetone and thrown it away when starting a new coating session after a few weeks.
I will now just let it get mixed into the next batch. That will save me 1 cc of liquid . Every drop counts.

[HI-TEK]

Thanks Hi-Tek. Love your product. I guess I am just too small of a coating user for this to be of use for me.
I have always washed out my coating tub with acetone and thrown it away when starting a new coating session after a few weeks.
I will now just let it get mixed into the next batch. That will save me 1 cc of liquid . Every drop counts.

Hi again Farmerjim,
Thank you for your kind comments.
I am glad you are happy with the product.
Bit alarmed, that you would throw out such good gunk..lol...lol
Seriously, as long as you are using same coloured coatings, there is no reason why you should lose coating and it should be used to coat as many as you can.
As you say, every drop counts..
Happy coating.....

[Michael J. Spangler]

so he coated some more last night and waited over night for them to dry.
he baked them this morning and he said he had the same results. he can scrape through the coating with his fingernail

i asked him to drop by my shop this afternoon so we can try coating using my acetone. i don't know if that will make a difference as its the same brand acetone

[HATCH]

What I did on my 300bo boolits was spray them with case lube. A very light coating. It makes it easier to size. What I found is that the sizing die was removing lead and the coating.

On my 158 fprn 38s I sized on my star with no spray. Sized fine with no coating being removed

[Moonman]

Hatch,

You might even spray them lightly with a little LEMON PLEDGE before sizing,
it smells good, works, and is CHEAPER than case lube.

I do believe one of the COMMERCIAL CASTERS/IMPORTERS uses it.

[HATCH]

Just alcohol and lanolin

[leadman]

Michael J Spangler, if he is using a new Lee push thru sizing die this could be he problem. I have had to polish several of them as they were rough and had lines in the metal from the cutter. Acts like a file.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I think this is the quietest I've ever seen this thread.
I guess everyone gave up on hi-tek.

Or is everyone spending too much time coating to bother with the forums? Sounds more likely to me.

[Avenger442]

Coated about 3lb. of .224 today. Was headed to the range but it started raining. Afraid the rain might affect my accuracy. :kidding:

[Ausglock]

Too busy casting and coating.

[HI-TEK]

Coated about 3lb. of .224 today. Was headed to the range but it started raining. Afraid the rain might affect my accuracy. :kidding:


Nooooo you got it wrong,,,,, it was the coating that did not like the rain....lol...lol

[Love Life]

The stuff just works. I'm just waiting for Swamp Rat to get the powder in so I can get me some more colors to play with!!

[HI-TEK]

The stuff just works. I'm just waiting for Swamp Rat to get the powder in so I can get me some more colors to play with!!

Good news that powdered Hi-Tek is going to Swamprat.
You will have some very pretty colours to try and play with and ample supply for all.

[Love Life]

Woohooo!!!

[Love Life]

Wow, SwampRat's bullets are a good price. Between his coated bullets and Xtreme, I may give up casting all together!!

[Moonman]

SPANGLER,

Ya gotta take time off from castin' & coatin', SHOOTIN'S the name of the game.

[jayjay1]

SPANGLER,

Ya gotta take time off from castin' & coatin', SHOOTIN'S the name of the game.

There ya goooooo!


Btw., what makes me think about while I´m waiting for my pewter...

Will the coat reduce the gunpowder needed?

Why I´m asking is, because I´ve used coated bullets from a factorer over here (Ares bullets) and with them, I needed 0,1 - 0,2gr. less, with a charge of roundabout 3,5gr. Acc No.2 in 9mm Luger, for the same size and weight bullets, to get them to the same velocity.

Did someone make a likewise experience with the HI-TEK coating?

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

There ya goooooo!


Btw., what makes me think about while I´m waiting for my pewter...

Will the coat reduce the gunpowder needed?

Why I´m asking is, because I´ve used coated bullets from a factorer over here (Ares bullets) and with them, I needed 0,1 - 0,2gr. less, with a charge of roundabout 3,5gr. Acc No.2 in 9mm Luger, for the same size and weight bullets, to get them to the same velocity.

Did someone make a likewise experience with the HI-TEK coating?


Most of my customers report having to use less powder (similar results as yours) with the Hi-Tek coated projectiles.

[220]

Previous such results, as you seem to have experienced, were found to be from alloys containing Zinc and Cadmium.
Initially, coating bonded well, and with time, it simply lets go. <snip>

My initial suspicion is, that alloy composition is not up to scratch.

Looks like you were on the money HiTek

Cast and coated some from a known lead source, these have been sitting coated for nearly 3 months and are still passing the smash test.
Process was identical to those that were giving me problems.
My only trouble is now I've got about 250lb of boolits I will be shooting with LLA or conventional lube my HT only days are still a way off yet.

[HI-TEK]

Looks like you were on the money HiTek

Cast and coated some from a known lead source, these have been sitting coated for nearly 3 months and are still passing the smash test.
Process was identical to those that were giving me problems.
My only trouble is now I've got about 250lb of boolits I will be shooting with LLA or conventional lube my HT only days are still a way off yet.

Thanks mate,
Because of the unique chemistry of these coatings, we have had strange coating results previously, and which took a lot of time and effort to sort out.
We even had problems occur at one time with commercially produced alloy, where the only way it was resolved, was to re-furnace and treat the alloy to get rid of contaminant impurities causing the coating failures.
The poor guy had to recycle 5 tons of alloy.
It was never expected that the alloy was at fault, and, it nearly drove us crazy trying to work out why coating kept on peeling off alloy with one user, and same coating from same batch, used by another manufacturer worked just fine.
Eventually after a lot of research, it was discovered that the only variable was the alloy.
Once faulty alloy was treated, the same coating worked just fine.
It was a good lesson for all of us.
I am glad that I could help.
I know how frustrating these type of failures can be first hand.
Happy that you have got onto it and are getting good results. Great persistence by you.

[jayjay1]

Got my package today, am thrilled, afraid and happy in one time.

:happy dance::|[smilie=w:

Cya later......

[Michael J. Spangler]

SPANGLER,

Ya gotta take time off from castin' & coatin', SHOOTIN'S the name of the game.

we have an on going joke with my group of shooting friends. we care more about picking brass/casting/reloading than we do about shooting.
we only shoot so we can tumble more brass. it's a sickness.

[jayjay1]

Yeah, I know this disease, I´m having it too.
:(

Well, did my first coating right now.
Thanks again to John for sending me the magic powder to the other side of the planet!
:drinks:

Wanted to start low, so I mixed up only 2gramms of powder with 10ml. of pure Acetone (1:5), baking for 12 minutes twice.

That´s what I came up with.
http://abload.de/thumb/dscn5208eokjf.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=dscn5208eokjf.jpg)

Passed the hammer test and the wipe off test, but looks a little bit inconsistent, not?
What do you experienced guys think?

The colour is "candy apple", but it looks like a dark shining brown to me.

Is it good to go or did I something wrong?



P.S.:
I did roundabout 500 9mm Luger bullets like this and there is still some coating left.
This stuff really goes a loooong way.

[HI-TEK]

Yeah, I know this disease, I´m having it too.
:(

Well, did my first coating right now.
Thanks again to John for sending me the magic powder to the other side of the planet!
:drinks:

Wanted to start low, so I mixed up only 2gramms of powder with 10ml. of pure Acetone (1:5), baking for 12 minutes twice.

That´s what I came up with.
http://abload.de/thumb/dscn5208eokjf.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=dscn5208eokjf.jpg)

Passed the hammer test and the wipe off test, but looks a little bit inconsistent, not?
What do you experienced guys think?

The colour is "candy apple", but it looks like a dark shining brown to me.

Is it good to go or did I something wrong?



P.S.:
I did roundabout 500 9mm Luger bullets like this and there is still some coating left.
This stuff really goes a loooong way.


A good first attempt. Glad it arrived safely.
Just a few observations that may help. Have you sized any? Picture of sized ones will also help.
1. May be during coating, you mixed/tumbled a bit too long and why surfaces looks a little rough and may be, you could have diluted or used a little more Acetone (say 1-6 or 1-7 ratio and use same volume to coat).
2. dark colour can be caused by over cooking, just like if you leave a toast in toaster too long it goes dark. The coating does the same. What was the accurate measured/confirmed temperature of oven?
3. It is better to mix a more larger amount, and before you do, make sure that you have plenty of cast beforehand so you use up as much of the coating mixture as possible.
If you have coating mixture left after you finish, you can keep it in well sealed containers in a cold place away from sunlight for up to a week or may be more. I have had reports of some people using the mixture OK after 3 weeks.

PS the name is Joe.....

[Ausglock]

Looks OK.. But.
You Shook for too long when coating. the coating was already dry before you stopped.
You used far too much.
Try 6mls of mixed coating per 250 bullets.
check the temp of your oven. This colour should be a nice rose red.

P.S. Joe's name is AL.... Alcoholic.

[Love Life]

Shazam

[HI-TEK]

Shazam


How good are they?
You are a wizard at this.
They look too pretty to shoot....lol
Which Red did you use?

[Love Life]

They shoot wonderfully, never lead, and are so hard that they kind of make "tink" sound when the boolits hit each other in the coffee can.

These were baked at 18+ minutes and then water quenched. The alloy started off years ago as wheel weight, but over the years I have added range lead, more wheel weights, lino, and whatever else struck my fancy at the moment. I call it my "Pistol alloy". Kind of soft when air cooled, but hard as woodpecker lips when water dropped after baking for 20 minutes.

[HI-TEK]

They shoot wonderfully, never lead, and are so hard that they kind of make "tink" sound when the boolits hit each other in the coffee can.

These were baked at 18+ minutes and then water quenched. The alloy started off years ago as wheel weight, but over the years I have added range lead, more wheel weights, lino, and whatever else struck my fancy at the moment. I call it my "Pistol alloy". Kind of soft when air cooled, but hard as woodpecker lips when water dropped after baking for 20 minutes.

I have had many advise about the "sharp tinkling sound" and products being so slippery, that they were difficult to pick up.
Guys who have cast uncoated projectiles in buckets, say that they cant push in their fingers towards the bottom, but once coated and baked, they can get to the bottom as projectiles simply slide away as fingers/hands are pushed to the bottom of containers.
Guys who are reloading just love the products as they feed cleanly without deposits when using them in automated loading systems, and virtually have no clean up after reloading is done and no waxy of greasy deposits being left on machinery.
Main thing is, that all who use it, hobbyists and commercial guys, are happy with results they get.
And, as some one said, coating becomes addictive and people cast just to coat.
As long as all are happy, that is what counts.

[Ausglock]

Woodpecker lips.....HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

What red is that? Liquid or powder? Mix ratio??

Looks bloody great. Outstanding.

[Love Life]

Powder
1tbs powder to 6 TBS acetone
5 ML of mix per 3 lbs-ish of boolits
never wash out tumbling can. Add boolits, shake a bit to get some of the old coat, add new coating, shake, and dump.

[Ausglock]

Nice. Which red powder is it?

[jayjay1]

Sorry Joe, dunno where this "John" came from.
:oops:

Shaking to long when coating maybe, I wasn´t so sure if it sounds dull or not, so I overdid it a bit to be safe.
I see now, that this can be wrong too.
But well, they´ve passed the tests, feel a little rough, as they look, but do feel pretty slick too.
I will size them now and take a look to them afterwards.

The oven temperature was 200°C, measured with an oven thermometer, which I laid inside the oven.
Should I go down with temp a bit?

[jayjay1]

I´ve sized some to show you.
The sized flanks are now shining a little bit more, than the rest of the bullets.

Hope you can see something on the pic:
http://abload.de/thumb/dscn5216kejx2.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=dscn5216kejx2.jpg)

And that´s how they looked like after the first coating, before they went into the oven:
http://abload.de/thumb/dscn5206fhks6.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=dscn5206fhks6.jpg)


Should I give them a try or pull ´em back into the pot?

[HI-TEK]

Sorry Joe, dunno where this "John" came from.
:oops:

Shaking to long when coating maybe, I wasn´t so sure if it sounds dull or not, so I overdid it a bit to be safe.
I see now, that this can be wrong too.
But well, they´ve passed the tests, feel a little rough, as they look, but do feel pretty slick too.
I will size them now and take a look to them afterwards.

The oven temperature was 200°C, measured with an oven thermometer, which I laid inside the oven.
Should I go down with temp a bit?

OK..... All is well.
Keep it at whatever settings you have with temperature.
Only things to do is, at about half way point of baking (after 5 minutes), take out tray from oven, quickly shake to mix around coated projectiles, and return to oven & cook for another 5 minutes.
Then do tests.
Dont forget, that you are supposed to check that first coat is bonded well before you coat a second time. Do this to get your process right, then simply keep it at same conditions.
When coating, (especially with first coat), use just barely enough mixture to wet surfaces.
If first coat looks uneven, and no liquid is left in mixing/shaking container then you have done well.
As soon as it is coated, 10-15 seconds of shaking, simply dump and leave to dry well.
DONT disturb.
It does not matter if lube groove has no coating in it. If lube groove has coating in it, you used too much coating, (first coat).
You can dilute more with Acetone, and use same quantity of liquid. That way you use less coating and more solvent to coat.

[HI-TEK]

I´ve sized some to show you.
The sized flanks are now shining a little bit more, than the rest of the bullets.

Hope you can see something on the pic:
http://abload.de/thumb/dscn5216kejx2.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=dscn5216kejx2.jpg)

And that´s how they looked like after the first coating, before they went into the oven:
http://abload.de/thumb/dscn5206fhks6.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=dscn5206fhks6.jpg)


Should I give them a try or pull ´em back into the pot?


Looks like you baked them much too long and also possibly your temperature seems high, from dark colour appearance produced. That colour should not be so dark after bake.

If coating is dark, and it shoots OK, dont worry about recycling. It is only colour that is not nice, but if they work, use them.

[Ausglock]

What the hell is that colour?????

[HI-TEK]

What the hell is that colour?????

Dont know for sure but I think it is the deep purple sample.

[jayjay1]

My colour?
That´s apple candy.

Is it possible that something went wrong because the coating wasn´t dry enough?

[Gremlin460]

300 out of Beretta 92fs and 280 out of the brand new S&W 1911 pro Series.. nil/zero/nada leading, used coating purchased last year some time.
near 600 9mm cases to deprime and clean... sigh*

[jayjay1]

Hm,
I´ve read anywhere inhere, that 6-7mls can be used for 250 9mm boolits and also for 2kg.
If I take 250 124grers, I´m coming nearly exactly to this 2kg.

It would be much easier for me to weigh the bullets than guessing how much are 250.
So, can I take those 2kg as a reference for 6-7mls of coating?

And another question with that:
I suppose you are measuring those 6-7mls to get a consistent coating?
How do you measure them after shaking to get as fast as possible into the bucket?

Just things that are driving me around a little bit.
:oops:

[Redwoode]

I use smallish mesh metal trays and non-convection oven. I go by weight, 3lbs (1.4kg) bullets per batch. Measure 4ml (well mixed) hi-tek in small plastic syringe, squirt over bullets and shake for 15 seconds. Into tray for thorough drying before going into preheated 395 degree oven for 11.5 minutes. Just finished 15lbs with red copper last night. Did final rub and hammer crush tests today. 100% success. Third batch without any problems. Had help from several guys on the BIG thread.

[Redwoode]

Forgot to mention a Frozone PID controls 395 degree oven temperature and stopwatch on 11.5 minute batch cure time.

Thanks to Ausglock, Gremlin460, bayou and gateway bullets.

[Ausglock]

JJ. There are cheap counting scales on Ebay. This is what I use.

I use poptop juice bottles to apply the coating. just a 1 second dribble. I do it by eye and don't measure.

[Love Life]

Shazam!! I started to delve deeper into the ratio having effects on accuracy, but then I got sidetracked having fun...

[farmerjim]

I count my boolits by volume. aprox 125 9mm 125 gr to 200 ml cup.

[Labanaktis]

Here is our first attempt at coating with the powdered Zombie Green. Please chime in and let me know what you think....they look to dark to me....BUT they pass the smash test, the scratch test, the Acetone test and the sizing test. 2 coats 400 degrees for 10 minutes.

here we go!

[Love Life]

Look how dark my red ones are. That is after baking well beyond the "known" time. The shot fine.

[HI-TEK]

Shazam!! I started to delve deeper into the ratio having effects on accuracy, but then I got sidetracked having fun...



Great results.
Attached is a range report from another site with Hi-Tek coated projectiles. Interesting results115794

[jayjay1]

Here is our first attempt at coating

The second picture, are they just coated, not baked at this point of time?

[jayjay1]

Looks like you baked them much too long and also possibly your temperature seems high, from dark colour appearance produced. That colour should not be so dark after bake.

If coating is dark, and it shoots OK, dont worry about recycling. It is only colour that is not nice, but if they work, use them.

Well, worked with the rest of this mixture and there was almost no colour in it.

So I suppose I didn´t shake it enough, when I added the acetone in the beginning.
Maybe that´s why the surface was so rough and the colour that dark on the first ones.

[jayjay1]

Hey!

Second try, this time the colour is "brown copper".
I´m coming closer to it, just have to manage the proportion between the number (surface) of bullets and the volume of coating for shaking.
I think I will calculate the surface of 250 124gr. bullets over the weight and volume (calculate as a cylinder) and then transfer this to other bullet weights.
So I can weigh the quantity of bullets and will always have the same surface / ml - proprtion.
Think this will help me in the beginning, making it easier to learn the process.

This is the 2nd try:
http://abload.de/thumb/dscn5220dlkcc.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=dscn5220dlkcc.jpg)

The left ones got more coating, the right ones (from another tray) got less as it looks like.
"Brown copper" like I said, passed all tests, looking waaaaayyy better than my first ones.
8-)

Coated and baked (190°C / 11 minutes) twice.
Is it to less coating or good to go, what do you guys think?

[Ausglock]

That looks a lot better.
Don't try to over think the process. Just mix coat bake repeat.. easy.

[Ausglock]

Your oven has hot spots. Temp far too high or baked for far too long.


Here is our first attempt at coating with the powdered Zombie Green. Please chime in and let me know what you think....they look to dark to me....BUT they pass the smash test, the scratch test, the Acetone test and the sizing test. 2 coats 400 degrees for 10 minutes.

here we go!

[jayjay1]

That looks a lot better.
Don't try to over think the process. Just mix coat bake repeat.. easy.

[smilie=w:

:mrgreen:

:drinks:

THANKS!
Joe and Ausglock

[Labanaktis]

Your oven has hot spots. Temp far too high or baked for far too long.


Sounds good. I'll give it another try at lower temp...say 375 and cut back to 8 minutes. They seem to function just fine...just a dark brown color. I'll load some up and shoot them this week. The process was pretty easy, seems I just need to get the baking down.

i will post results

[HI-TEK]

Sounds good. I'll give it another try at lower temp...say 375 and cut back to 8 minutes. They seem to function just fine...just a dark brown color. I'll load some up and shoot them this week. The process was pretty easy, seems I just need to get the baking down.

i will post results

The dark colour indicates over temperature as Ausglock suggests, and dark colour can be caused by both over temperature, and long cooking combined.

Before you make adjustments to both temperature and time of cooking, it may be suggested that you alter one parameter at a time.

Leave your temperature settings at same position, and reduce time in oven, by one minute lots to see at what point coating passes tests and looks good as well.

That way you can determine, (without changing temperature settings), for a specific amount loaded into the oven, how long it will take to cook until you get good results at that set temperature.

If you change both temperature and time in oven at same time, you wont know which factor worked to get the results you require.

The coating is very tolerant and should work even if darkened with over cooking, but it wont be as pretty as darkening of resin overcomes designed colour.
Let us know how you went.

[jayjay1]

The coating is very tolerant and should work even if darkened with over cooking, but it wont be as pretty as darkening of resin overcomes designed colour.


I can tell ya....
[smilie=1:

:mrgreen:


@Labanaktis:
Did you measure the temperature or did you just set the oven on it?

I´ve measured mine with an oven thermometer.
With a setting on 175°C it heats up to 200°C consistently.
On 200°C setting it was over 220°C!!!

[Labanaktis]

I can tell ya....
[smilie=1:

:mrgreen:


@Labanaktis:
Did you measure the temperature or did you just set the oven on it?

I´ve measured mine with an oven thermometer.
With a setting on 175°C it heats up to 200°C consistently.
On 200°C setting it was over 220°C!!!


Its the the measured temp. I will buy another thermometer to doublecheck. We use the oven to do small powder coated parts. I might move to rack higher up so it's towards the middle of the oven instead of the bottom. . I will post results after I run some more bullets this weekend. Thanks for all the help fella's


Matt

[Avenger442]

If you want to check your thermometer, boil some water and stick it in it. Don't touch bottom of pan. Should read 212 F or 100 C.

[jayjay1]

http://abload.de/thumb/dscn52223sj6e.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=dscn52223sj6e.jpg)

Have to wait till wednesday...
:Fire:

:mrgreen:

[gunoil]

Iam moving to oz. Sorry to barge in but, must read.

Prime Minister Julia Gillard - Australia


Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.


Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote:
'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT... Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.


'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.


'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!


'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'


'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.


'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.


'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country that accepted you.

[Ausglock]

She ain't the PM anymore and it is a false story. (Snopes)
Anyhoo... how you been stranger???

[gunoil]

Iam fine, been riding recumbent trike for my legs and building a velomobile w/help from oz friend Ian Sims.

Cannot find pistol powder, have plenty lead and primers and hi-tek.

[leadman]

gunoil, been seeing pistol powders in the stores here in Phoenix and spotted some on a couple of websites but were gone in a hurry. Just keep calling around and checking the sites like Graf & Sons, Missouth Shooters Supply, Powder Valley, etc.

[HI-TEK]

http://abload.de/thumb/dscn52223sj6e.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=dscn52223sj6e.jpg)

Have to wait till wednesday...
:Fire:

:mrgreen:



They look very good. Much better than first try.
Did they pass all tests with each coat?
Did they size well? What is caliber?
What type of gun are you using with these, what is load (and powder), distance to target etc etc?
Looking forward to your tests.

[jayjay1]

They look very good. Much better than first try.
Did they pass all tests with each coat?
Did they size well? What is caliber?
What type of gun are you using with these, what is load (and powder), distance to target etc etc?
Looking forward to your tests.

Oh yeah,
just did some .358/158 RNFP and I´m straight on the line now, they look better every coat, I´ve got it.
And if I can, everyone does.
:roll:

Ok, those on the picture are .40 S&W, from the LEE 175TC-mold, dropping out with 180 or so.
Am loading them to an OAL of 28,30mm (short chamber), fired with 4,1gr. of Green Dot in front of a Federal primer.
Pistola is a CZ 75 TS.
Distance to target is from Zero out to 50m, but I will shoot ´em at 25m.
But I´m having different brass, will look to shoot a group with cases from only one manufacturer.

My cast load was 4,2gr. to make Major PF, so I thought I´ll try 4,1 first.
Tomorrow there is training with our IPSC group, but I overthought that and will shoot my normal load tomorrow, trying this one on Friday without stress and enough time.

And yessir, passed all tests, I love it!
[smilie=w:

[Shotgundrums]

115941 Goose poo Green

[Redwoode]

1035 suffix on powder versions. Does it mean different catalyst used? If so, 2 or 3 equivalent?

[HI-TEK]

1035 suffix on powder versions. Does it mean different catalyst used? If so, 2 or 3 equivalent?

Glad you asked the question.
None of the powders require any catalysts.
The liquid versions allowed users to chose catalyst they preferred when making specific cast alloys and for end use applications.
The Gold 1035 is a specific coloured Gold. It is a very bright Yellow glittery gold.
There are several gold variances, Old gold (or Antique Gold) Sunny gold, a more yellow than the old gold, Red Gold.
Texas Tea is Black with 1035 Gold variance.
The reason for these was market driven as individual companies wanted to distinguish themselves from other coloured variants.
The Powdered versions, not only available in standard grades equivalent to solvent systems, but also they can be made with 2-extreme characteristics built into the coatings.
The 2-Extreme versions, provide additional benefits when especially trying to size very hard alloys, and the coating assists with sizing process reducing loads on machines and hand operated sizers.

[Redwoode]

I've had issues smearing with sizer. Got 2 extreme from Donnie and issue solved. Plus cured coating seems more glossy. Will any of the powders with the 2 extreme variant be coming in Donnie's initial powders order?

[HI-TEK]

I've had issues smearing with sizer. Got 2 extreme from Donnie and issue solved. Plus cured coating seems more glossy. Will any of the powders with the 2 extreme variant be coming in Donnie's initial powders order?

You are correct. The coating seems to get a slightly higher gloss with the 2-Extreme system.
I put it down to sizing really compacting surface where maximum loads are encountered.
The high energy with sizing and shooting, certainly does seem to favor the 2-Extreme system, as some feed back seems to indicate, that the 2-Extreme versions take much higher pressure/loads without damage to the coatings.

The demand for both the 2-Extreme version for both liquid and powders seem to be on the increase.

Please keep in mind, that the 2-Extreme system was a new development, which was made specifically to suit/satisfy shooting styles and requirements as used in the US, especially by many who use hard alloys of various sorts, and for people who were drastically downsizing larger diameter alloys.

New stock certainly will have the 2-Extreme powder versions available.
Liquids are already there.

[Redwoode]

Thank you.

What would ideal storage conditions be for liquid catalysts be for optimal life and usability? And, how long can they last before being used?

[Ausglock]

The 2 extreme is the best catalyst for liquid coatings. It is the only one I use now.
But I still use the Hitek sizing lube. takes all the strain out of the sizing job.
I think there was a misconception about the 1035 component adding to the hardness or the coating. As Joe stated 1035 is a gold coating that had the solids removed and added to other colour to see what would happen. this is how Kryptonite Green was born.
Still the best green coating on the market.. and it is mine....all mine....hahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahaaha.....:-)

[HI-TEK]

Thank you.

What would ideal storage conditions be for liquid catalysts be for optimal life and usability? And, how long can they last before being used?

Liquid catalysts are quite stable, I have had some that had used it over 2 and 3 years without problems.
Just ensure that it is kept out of sunlight and in tightly closed containers.

With coating and catalyst, we generally advise that you use it all up within 2-3 days. However, I have had some tell me that they used catalysed coating after 3 weeks and it coated just fine.

Historically, we used to supply coating and catalyst as one system. We had found, that in hot climates, such as experienced in Northern Australia, in some sheds, the ambient temperatures can reach 45-50C.
In such conditions we had found instability of the catalysed system, that is why we offered products separately and problem went away.
Hope that I have answered all your questions.

[Ausglock]

I have liquid coating concentrate stored in the fridge for over 12 months now and still perfect. I have liquid coating stored on a shelf in my shed and it also is in perfect condition. Catalyst is stored on the shelf for over 12 months too.
I have mixed liquid coating that has been mixed for 3 months and still works fine. just need to shake it well before use.

Thank you.

What would ideal storage conditions be for liquid catalysts be for optimal life and usability? And, how long can they last before being used?

[HI-TEK]

The 3 extreme is the best catalyst for liquid coatings. It is the only one I use now.
But I still use the Hitek sizing lube. takes all the strain out of the sizing job.
I think there was a misconception about the 1035 component adding to the hardness or the coating. As Joe stated 1035 is a gold coating that had the solids removed and added to other colour to see what would happen. this is how Kryptonite Green was born.
Still the best green coating on the market.. and it is mine....all mine....hahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahaaha.....:-)


I think that you have been sniffing too much solvents today...lol...lol...

[jayjay1]

Ok, I wasn´t able to wait till friday, I was to thrilled.

Our IPSC-group is having the range for just two hours, so I had to ask my buddies if I can do some test shooting before we start.
First test shooting in front of audience wasn´t what I wanted, but what the heck, waiting two days longer.... come on!

They said no problem, so I grabbed my preloaded mag, hang up a prec disc and under the jokes and laughing of my buddies I jumped to the ground and settled my pistol on my range bag and hurried up.

After I´ve shot my mag with 15 rounds in roundabout 30 seconds, the whole group was walking with me to the berm, to see what I did.
No more joking, no laughs, only silence.

15 rounds at 25meters in 30 seconds, flyers belong to the shooter, ok for me so.

http://abload.de/thumb/.40hi-tekzhf01.jpeg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=.40hi-tekzhf01.jpeg)


BUT, I had some smears in the barrel, beginning at the chamber throat half way up the barrel.
They were gone after pulling once my bore snake through.
Is that normal?

[Ausglock]

have you slugged your barrel?what are you sizing the pills to?
this normally means the pill is too small for the barrel.

[Michael J. Spangler]

so the sizing issues with the black1035 might be due to my buddies sizer die.
i dean them through my start with lathe smith dies and they sized fine. they're pretty big so sizing was a little hard but they came out with all of their coating. i guess now we need to break the edge on the mouth of his sizing die. i'm going to size a bunch for him to see how they shoot before we move forward anyway.

god i love this coating

[Ausglock]

I chuck the lee sizer dies in the lathe and open up the mouth and then polish them to mirror finish. Makes for easy sizing and feeding from the automated sizer machine.

[Shotgundrums]

I chuck the lee sizer dies in the lathe and open up the mouth and then polish them to mirror finish. Makes for easy sizing and feeding from the automated sizer machine.
Trev, do you polish your sizers with rouge?

[Ausglock]

I use mothers ali polish on a wool mop in the dremel.

[jayjay1]

have you slugged your barrel?what are you sizing the pills to?
this normally means the pill is too small for the barrel.

Yeah, I think that´s it.

Yep, slugged my barrel with .4008, Chris / lathesmith made me a .402 sizer for my star.

But the Dillon expander on the powder funnel is to small, my bullets get downsized in the case.
Same thing in two other handgun calibers.

I´m searching for a solution (custom made powder funnels for Dillon 550/650) really hard.
:sad:

[Shotgundrums]

I use mothers ali polish on a wool mop in the dremel.
Excellent thanks!!

[Shotgundrums]

Yeah, I think that´s it.

Yep, slugged my barrel with .4008, Chris / lathesmith made me a .402 sizer for my star.

But the Dillon expander on the powder funnel is to small, my bullets get downsized in the case.
Same thing in two other handgun calibers.

I´m searching for a solution (custom made powder funnels for Dillon 550/650) really hard.
:sad:
Your dillon 40 conversion powder funnel/expander should be a "W"
How tight does it fit into a sized case? And how hard are your pills? Too soft and, well we know how that goes ;)

[jayjay1]

Oh, I´m into this on another thread, searching for a solution.
Won´t bring up this here.

Thanks.

[Avenger442]

Back on post 3651 I mentioned some testing I was going to do with my "brush gun" the .44magnum rifle. It is a Winchester model 94 AE with a 16" barrel. It is only good for a shot out to +/- 50 yards. Target is at 50 yards using iron sights from a rest. Targets are 6"x7" rectangle with 1" aim point.

Bullet Lee TL430-240-SWC average weight 236 gr. Coating liquid Hi-Tek gold 1035 with the cat2. Powder is IMR 4227. Cases are Winchester WW Super for the 21-22 grain powder and Remington RP for the 23 and up grain (didn't notice I was short on the WW Super cases till I started). Primer CCI 300.

Here they are coated. And, yes they are dark.

Here are photos of results: don't know why they are loading side down???



Top left is factory load.
Then the IMR 4227 21.6 gr (next); 22gr; 22.5gr; 23gr; 23.5gr (bottom right). Max load in the Lyman table I was using was24 grains.

Group for factory was 4 1/2".
Best group for my loads was 2".

Lyman used a duplicate of my gun. But theirs had the 20" barrel so the speeds were probably a bit higher than I was producing. They are saying between 1500 and 1600 fps. for theirs.

Some of you ballistics guys tell me why the factory load went close to the point of aim and my loads were dropping 6"? Bullet, powder or combination of both?

As always, so far, no lead in barrel.

Have some additional testing for the 308 coming using slower powder.

[Ausglock]

Nice......

[HI-TEK]

Back on post 3651 I mentioned some testing I was going to do with my "brush gun" the .44magnum rifle. It is a Winchester model 94 AE with a 16" barrel. It is only good for a shot out to +/- 50 yards. Target is at 50 yards using iron sights from a rest. Targets are 6"x7" rectangle with 1" aim point.

Bullet Lee TL430-240-SWC average weight 236 gr. Coating liquid Hi-Tek gold 1035 with the cat2. Powder is IMR 4227. Cases are Winchester WW Super for the 21-22 grain powder and Remington RP for the 23 and up grain (didn't notice I was short on the WW Super cases till I started). Primer CCI 300.
116199
116188
Here they are coated. And, yes they are dark.

Here are photos of results: don't know why they are loading side down???

116190116189116191
116192116193
116194116195

Top left is factory load.
Then the IMR 4227 21.6 gr (next); 22gr; 22.5gr; 23gr; 23.5gr (bottom right). Max load in the Lyman table I was using was24 grains.

Group for factory was 4 1/2".
Best group for my loads was 2".

Lyman used a duplicate of my gun. But theirs had the 20" barrel so the speeds were probably a bit higher than I was producing. They are saying between 1500 and 1600 fps. for theirs.

Some of you ballistics guys tell me why the factory load went close to the point of aim and my loads were dropping 6"? Bullet, powder or combination of both?

As always, so far, no lead in barrel.

Have some additional testing for the 308 coming using slower powder.


They look great.
How did you find using 2-Extreme catalyst with final finish and sizing ability?
When you changed to the 2-Extreme, were these then more slippery than using the normal catalyst, and especially after sizing?
They also should have become more shiny on sized surfaces.
Looks like you really got it together.
Well done.

[Gremlin460]

116303
S&W 1911 pro, 9mm 124 casts , coated in bronze wet HT. Coating bought nearly 1 year ago. Cooked 10.5 mins @ 401 temp and sized to 356. drying time for coats 1.5 hours.
2 x 10 shot mags in this target. shot standing free-hand @ 15mtrs (30ft).
Wipe and smash tests not conducted, hell hardly do them at all anymore.
Zero leading, only powder residue.

good enough for me...........

[zomby woof]

116303
S&W 1911 pro, 9mm 124 casts , coated in bronze wet HT. Coating bought nearly 1 year ago. Cooked 10.5 mins @ 401 temp and sized to 356. drying time for coats 1.5 hours.
2 x 10 shot mags in this target. shot standing free-hand @ 15mtrs (30ft).
Wipe and smash tests not conducted, hell hardly do them at all anymore.
Zero leading, only powder residue.

good enough for me...........

Yea, gotta be happy with that.

[Beetmagnet]

So my 2 1/2,week nightmare with kidney stones is over and I'm ready to get back to making this Hi-Tek powder work. I have some quick questions though.

The mixture that I prepared has been sitting in a sealed container in my refrigerator for 2.1/2,weeks. I've read on here that it should only be good for about a week. Is that correct? Do I need to throw the already mixed solution away and mix some up fresh?

Ausglock seemed to think my problem initially might have been not enough drying time on the first coat. I did get one test batch fired before my kidney problems started. It left a white residue in the barrel. Is this normal?

Just in case my problem was alloy centered I have ordered and received 30 lbs of Lyman #2 from Rotometals for testing purposes. I'll be casting these bullets soon and testing as well.

[10mmShooter]

Hi All, I'm taking the plunge and ordering some Hi-Tek green liquid on Monday, but I need guidance on the proper oven, I've never had luck with Goodwill or yard sales,

What's the min wattage for say 150-200 .44 mag 250g bullets(that's about 7 pounds of lead, do I need to go with a smaller run?? )
Must it be convection???
Whats the minimum interior size I need for my .44 mag bullets (most seem to state they will hold a 11 inch pizza is the big enough??

thanks for the help

[HI-TEK]

So my 2 1/2,week nightmare with kidney stones is over and I'm ready to get back to making this Hi-Tek powder work. I have some quick questions though.

The mixture that I prepared has been sitting in a sealed container in my refrigerator for 2.1/2,weeks. I've read on here that it should only be good for about a week. Is that correct? Do I need to throw the already mixed solution away and mix some up fresh?

Ausglock seemed to think my problem initially might have been not enough drying time on the first coat. I did get one test batch fired before my kidney problems started. It left a white residue in the barrel. Is this normal?

Just in case my problem was alloy centered I have ordered and received 30 lbs of Lyman #2 from Rotometals for testing purposes. I'll be casting these bullets soon and testing as well.


Just let your mixture come up to room temperature, and try to coat a few.
Applying thick coats, and or not drying well, will cause problems.
The rule is don't rush things, and apply enough diluted coating just to barely coat alloy..
If mixture may have lost some solvent, (It is possible) , (Acetone) simply add a little more. Diluting will not hurt coating mixture but will allow to coat more, without adding more coating powder to the mix.
White residue matters, may be related to Lead alloy used.
I am going to take photos of some Lead casts to show what happens with alloys that are contaminated and form white powdered residues.
I dont know for sure, that the white powder residue is the same as what I have on my alloys that were cast, but suspect that it is.
The coatings should not leave any white powdered residues.

Hope Kidney problems are all sorted. Sorry to hear that you were not well.

Hope it all works well with fresh alloy.
Looking forward to your report.

[Avenger442]

They look great.
How did you find using 2-Extreme catalyst with final finish and sizing ability?
When you changed to the 2-Extreme, were these then more slippery than using the normal catalyst, and especially after sizing?
They also should have become more shiny on sized surfaces.
Looks like you really got it together.
Well done.

Joe
Sorry so long getting back with you.
The 2-Extreme is the only catalyst I have tried. I have some of the standard (name?) catalyst but have not used it yet.
No problems sizing. Yes more shiny on sized surface.

[Avenger442]

Hi All, I'm taking the plunge and ordering some Hi-Tek green liquid on Monday, but I need guidance on the proper oven, I've never had luck with Goodwill or yard sales,

What's the min wattage for say 150-200 .44 mag 250g bullets(that's about 7 pounds of lead, do I need to go with a smaller run?? )
Must it be convection???
Whats the minimum interior size I need for my .44 mag bullets (most seem to state they will hold a 11 inch pizza is the big enough??

thanks for the help

Noticed you had not received a reply so thought I would chime in.

Don't know the wattage of the oven I'm using it came from a yard sale. You definitely need convection for even cooking of the coated bullets. You have to get the bullets to 200 C and maintain for 12 minutes. I know it is a chore to read all of the post. There have been several concerning the type and brand of oven. If your willing to spend $300 I understand the Bienville (I think I spelled that right) convection oven at Bed Bath and Beyond or Amazon. The post say they control the temperature more closely than some of the ones from Hamilton Beach and Oster. But you can find a decent convection oven from Wally World for less than half that price. What ever you use, get a thermometer to place in the oven with the bullets to watch your temperature. Most oven controls are off between 20 and 50 degrees. Before I found the yard sale oven I actually purchased a $200 Hamilton Beach for $99 new online and that included shipping. I have never used it. The controls on that oven will not meet and maintain the temperature that it is set on. Complained to HB, they said that it was industry standard. So get a thermometer. To help maintain temperature place a brick in the bottom of the oven to absorb and hold heat level. Make sure you cook the brick a few times to get the moisture out before putting bullets in to cook. All I can think of on ovens.

I load 44 mag for a rifle. Some of the coatings are better for higher pressure loads. I use the two part liquid. Not sure about the powder yet. They say it is slightly easier to mix since the two parts are already in the powder. Check with people you are purchasing from. I have used Gold 1035 with the 2-Extreme catalyst on 44 mag with success. No lead in barrel. Accuracy OK.

I usually cook about 3lb (no matter what caliber) per load. Something that was suggested earlier. You can do this in the small ovens. If you think about it, smaller spaces are easier to maintain temp. Works for me.

[Avenger442]

I started testing of the Hi-Tek coating in my .308 Bolt gun way back in post 183. This is a continuation of those test with more powder and a slower powder per suggestion from leadman.

Coating Hi-Tek Gold 1035 liquid three coats. Lead is wheel weight plus 2% tin. Water dropped after last coat. Load is the Lee C309-160R bullet, gas check and sized to 309 over Accurate 5744 and IMR 4064 in a Remington case with CCI 200 primer.


Rifle Remington 700 with Remington scope 24” bull barrel. Range was a 100 yards from a rest. Shot two different loads of the A-5744, three loads of IMR 4064 (slower powder) and Remington factory ammo 150 grain Core-Lok PSP (my normal factory hunting round).

Here are the results.

Factory load grouped 1-1/4" and at height to the point of aim.
With a little scope adjustment could have put all on the point of aim.
There was no scope adjustment before shooting the lead loads.
24 grains A-5744 five shots grouped 2-1/2" -dropped approx 5" from point of aim
25 grains A-5744 five shots grouped all over the place -drop approx 5" from point of aim
35 grains IMR-4064 nice 1-3/4 group 4 shots and one flyer 7" high- drop from point of aim was also 5".
36 grains IMR-4064 five shots spread to 3-3/4" (my fault?) 4" drop from point of aim
37 grains IMR-4064 grouped 1-3/4" (only three shots ran out of bullets) approx 4" drop from point of aim.

Not bad for 100 yards. 25 shots would have given me a clean kill on a deer. 3 would have not. 1 would have been a miss.

Here are the photos. Sorry they are loading sideways again.


Almost time to look at deer through scope instead of target. With a little more work on loads Hi-Tek coated bullet puts meat in the freezer.

Oh, almost forgot no leading in barrel. It was so slick after dry patch probably won't even clean it.

[Eviltoy]

Might be a stupid question but has anyone used a microwave convection oven for this

[HATCH]

I don't think that would work too well but why don't you try it and report back..

[Eviltoy]

Those mini convection ovens you guys get in the states are almost impossible to actually get here. All the counter top varieties are non convection

[Ausglock]

ET google "Breville convection oven"
They sell them all over the world. surely they sell them in SA.

BTW.. I shot a 2 day IPSC match with an ex SA who is now an Australian. He is a top Bloke.

[Eviltoy]

Nah checked for the breville already no luck. I think I will have to try it with the small conventionals for now. yeah plenty SA okes move the Aus :P