simple Hi-Tek coating

[Ausglock]

I shoot IPSC at indoor ranges and the smoke generated is all from the powder. try shooting jacketed or plated and the smoke will be the same as with coated pills with the same powder.

[bmiller]

Ok, I aquired some e3. It is very clean burning. I will try that and see what happens.

[leadman]

The only time I get any "smoke" from a Hi-Tek coated boolit is when the velocity and/or pressure is greater than the alloy can withstand. Then there is a light gray puff out of the muzzle. This is a solid indicator you need to do something to increase the boolits "strength" or reduce or change powders.
Even at 3,619fps I had very little gray smoke out out the muzzle of my Contender 223 Rem.
I have recently had 2 customers that were getting leading with 45acp 1911 guns. Both of these guns had problems with the leade in front of the chamber. One changed the boolit used and it reduced the amount of leading but did not eliminate it. This gun has a slightly off center leade, the other has no leade.
So if you have a gun you can not get to stop leading with HT do a chamber cast along with a short section of the rifling in front of the chamber.

[HI-TEK]

Ok, I aquired some e3. It is very clean burning. I will try that and see what happens.
Looking forward to your trial results comparing standard and X3 catalyst.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I've been coating like a madman lately.
I was down the last tablespoon or so of mixed coating in the bottom of my mixing container. I noticed it seemed a little dark, possibly from evaporation every time I opened the container making it a little more concentrated (been using the same batch for weeks) so I splashed in a little acetone to thin it out. Wow it worked beautiful. I used a little bit more of the solution than I normally would but with the addition of more acetone it really seemed to coat much more evenly and even get into the lube grooves (I know it's aesthetics but I hate when the coating doesn't reach inside the grooves) it takes a little longer to dry but worked great.
I'll be mixing the next batch 5-1-7 for sure.
God I love this coating.

[Ausglock]

5-1-7 is a very good compromise between coverage and usage.
For 125gr Conicals with a deep groove, I have mixed 5-1-10 and virtually drowned the bullets with coating at 12mls per 250 9mm bullets, rather than the 7mls at 5-1-7 per 250 9mm bullets.
Still only 2 coats.

[HI-TEK]

The only time I get any "smoke" from a Hi-Tek coated boolit is when the velocity and/or pressure is greater than the alloy can withstand. Then there is a light gray puff out of the muzzle. This is a solid indicator you need to do something to increase the boolits "strength" or reduce or change powders.
Even at 3,619fps I had very little gray smoke out out the muzzle of my Contender 223 Rem.
I have recently had 2 customers that were getting leading with 45acp 1911 guns. Both of these guns had problems with the leade in front of the chamber. One changed the boolit used and it reduced the amount of leading but did not eliminate it. This gun has a slightly off center leade, the other has no leade.
So if you have a gun you can not get to stop leading with HT do a chamber cast along with a short section of the rifling in front of the chamber.

Leadman,
Thanks for your input.
Just curious about the 3619fps results.
I am unfamiliar with the type of gun you used.
Can you please provide more details, such as alloy used, bore diameter & lenght, alloy diameter, powder used, and was barrel clean after such use?
If possible many more would be interested in the detailed results you are getting with such uses.
Appreciate your efforts.
Hi-Tek

[Michael J. Spangler]

5-1-7 is a very good compromise between coverage and usage.
For 125gr Conicals with a deep groove, I have mixed 5-1-10 and virtually drowned the bullets with coating at 12mls per 250 9mm bullets, rather than the 7mls at 5-1-7 per 250 9mm bullets.
Still only 2 coats.

Sounds like this is the way to go. More even coverage and smoother finished product. I'm sold.
I really want to go shooting now. The more I shoot the more I can cast and reload. Not sure which one I like to do more.

[kweidner]

Interesting find this weekend. I was experimenting with E2 catalyst and found Less powder fouling and an seemed increase in pressure. Now I don't have a way to scientifically test this theory except by group size. Here is how I came up with my theory. When shooting a 180 rn in my G35 glock bbl, my gun likes 4.1 of tite group. When using same load of 4.1 with E2, my groups opened up and my recoil seemed heavier as well as brass went a bit further. Backed my loads down to 3.5 and my grouping settled back as well as the recoil felt "normal" for that load and brass ejection was the same as that of the 4.1 with regular catalyst. Any ideas here? Same OAL on both loads same coating process roughly same temps and humidity when testing etc.Only thing changed was the last coat was e2. This was just an observation. Wondered if any one else has had a chance to mess much with the E2.....Same grouping with less powder I like. .5 grains can add up in the long run!

[HI-TEK]

Interesting find this weekend. I was experimenting with E2 catalyst and found Less powder fouling and an seemed increase in pressure. Now I don't have a way to scientifically test this theory except by group size. Here is how I came up with my theory. When shooting a 180 rn in my G35 glock bbl, my gun likes 4.1 of tite group. When using same load of 4.1 with E2, my groups opened up and my recoil seemed heavier as well as brass went a bit further. Backed my loads down to 3.5 and my grouping settled back as well as the recoil felt "normal" for that load and brass ejection was the same as that of the 4.1 with regular catalyst. Any ideas here? Same OAL on both loads same coating process roughly same temps and humidity when testing etc.Only thing changed was the last coat was e2. This was just an observation. Wondered if any one else has had a chance to mess much with the E2.....Same grouping with less powder I like. .5 grains can add up in the long run!

Interesting results.
The E2 should reduce pressure build up, and that is possibly may be one of the reasons why you lost accuracy.
Generally the E, E2 and E3 catalysts are used where there is a requirement to drastically size down over sized alloys especially if they are hard.
Using these, significantly reduces the loads on punches dramatically, and sizing is made easy without damage to coatings.
I would expect the sound of your shots to also be "different" as I expect that the E2 had affected resident time inside barrel.

[bmiller]

Looking forward to your trial results comparing standard and X3 catalyst.

I am referring to Alliant smokeless powder named e3. I did not realize you had a catalyst called e3. But I will try to get some your other catalyst.

[HI-TEK]

I am referring to Alliant smokeless powder named e3. I did not realize you had a catalyst called e3. But I will try to get some your other catalyst.

Apology, My mistake.
I have had others refer the Ex 2-E and 3-E and I was thinking that you were too.

[farmerjim]

Abbreviations can and do cause mistakes. They have caused reloaders to use the wrong powder. This has led to catastrophic failures of firearms. There is a thread on that here somewhere. Be careful, not everybody thinks like you.
My wife uses Canadian expressions frequently down here in the South. I have to tell her that the person did not understand, likewise she does not always understand some of the expressions used down here.

[bmiller]

Apology, My mistake.
I have had others refer the Ex 2-E and 3-E and I was thinking that you were too.

No problem. It was my mistake. Learn something new everyday !

[Moonman]

Maybe with this thread HAVING SO MUCH INTERACTION BETWEEN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES,

Posters should NOT USE ABBREVIATIONS to help keep misunderstandings and mistakes at a VERY LOW LEVEL .

Especially with some people now discussing LOADED AMMO RESULTS

and the use of Hi-TEK coating and it's different catalysts.

That's Just My Humble Opinion.

[larksaw]

I have to ask a question. I've been doing a lot of reading from flight stability to fast and slow powders, etc.. but one thing that keeps bother me about all of this is Obturation of the bullet. From what I read lastnight about a formula to which I ordered the book. BHNx1422x.9 will yield the pressure to where obturation begins.

I'm not trying to get into a discussion about it but lets just consider this as a baseline to what I'm going to ask because I know there are lots of variables that contradict this but it keeps coming back to obturation being controled in one form or another.
First we have hardening the lead controls obturation allowing higher pressures to be applied etc...
Then we have Powder coating a bullet its bonding to the lead and Hi-tek coating also bonding to the lead, so my question is doesn't the bonding to the lead in away help to control obturation or slow it ?

[kweidner]

Interesting results.
The E2 should reduce pressure build up, and that is possibly may be one of the reasons why you lost accuracy.
Generally the E, E2 and E3 catalysts are used where there is a requirement to drastically size down over sized alloys especially if they are hard.
Using these, significantly reduces the loads on punches dramatically, and sizing is made easy without damage to coatings.
I would expect the sound of your shots to also be "different" as I expect that the E2 had affected resident time inside barrel.

Certainly could have been faster as I did not run them over the chrony. Conditions didn't allow it. Very cool results though. I shall run them over my chronograph next chance I get. Also important to note recovered boolits were perfect except for their new polygonal shape. :grin:97769

[leadman]

Hi-Tek, The Thompson Center Contender is a single shot switch barrel gun, either pistol or rifle. In this case I had a 23" bull barrel chambered in 223 Rem. The alloy was heat treated linotype that measured 35 BHN before coating. I did the modified baking of allowing the temperature to climb to 375 f then turning down the oven to under 300 f and letting the time expire. BHN was 32 after baking. Two coats of Red Copper with Extreme catalyst.
Range was 100 yards, powder was H4895, the boolit was the Lee "Bator" 50gr round flat nose with gas check sized .225". Group size for the maximum load was 2.9". Some slower velocity loads were a little more accurate. I fired about 25 shots that were all over 3,000 fps without cleaning the bore and it still looks clean.
I do have some more loads prepared and hope to test these tomorrow. I now have an AR15 so will be testing in this and my Contender.
I have had to move away from testing the 30-06 at high velocity due to problems with my neck. Even with the Leadsled rifle rest it was causing me pain.

[HI-TEK]

Hi-Tek, The Thompson Center Contender is a single shot switch barrel gun, either pistol or rifle. In this case I had a 23" bull barrel chambered in 223 Rem. The alloy was heat treated linotype that measured 35 BHN before coating. I did the modified baking of allowing the temperature to climb to 375 f then turning down the oven to under 300 f and letting the time expire. BHN was 32 after baking. Two coats of Red Copper with Extreme catalyst.
Range was 100 yards, powder was H4895, the boolit was the Lee "Bator" 50gr round flat nose with gas check sized .225". Group size for the maximum load was 2.9". Some slower velocity loads were a little more accurate. I fired about 25 shots that were all over 3,000 fps without cleaning the bore and it still looks clean.
I do have some more loads prepared and hope to test these tomorrow. I now have an AR15 so will be testing in this and my Contender.
I have had to move away from testing the 30-06 at high velocity due to problems with my neck. Even with the Leadsled rifle rest it was causing me pain.

Leadman,
Thanks much for details, very informative and helpful.
You guys are very lucky with being able to have all sorts of guns.
We are a very "controlled" population here, and the lawmakers, are trying to make it even more controlled.
I am amazed at all the different guns I read about in these forums, that people talk about. It is awesome.
I remember in high school, going to Camp as Cadets, and shooting 303's. It was a hoot
Now, there is no such thing. I learnt a lot, and caused no harm to any one.
Here, if you own a gun you are automatically looked upon as a criminal.
I also remember having pains in the shoulder where these beasts were thumping me at each shot.
Good old days.
Please keep posting on what you are doing and what results you are getting.

[HI-TEK]

I have to ask a question. I've been doing a lot of reading from flight stability to fast and slow powders, etc.. but one thing that keeps bother me about all of this is Obturation of the bullet. From what I read lastnight about a formula to which I ordered the book. BHNx1422x.9 will yield the pressure to where obturation begins.

I'm not trying to get into a discussion about it but lets just consider this as a baseline to what I'm going to ask because I know there are lots of variables that contradict this but it keeps coming back to obturation being controled in one form or another.
First we have hardening the lead controls obturation allowing higher pressures to be applied etc...
Then we have Powder coating a bullet its bonding to the lead and Hi-tek coating also bonding to the lead, so my question is doesn't the bonding to the lead in away help to control obturation or slow it ?

In general, coatings you describe is aimed at separating alloy from barrel.
It is important that such coatings stay put whilst alloy travels along the barrel.
So, a good bond is essential for that to happen.
The Hi-Tek nor Powder coating can interfere with hydraulic deformations taking place, (obturation).
They are not armour plating, but are used as dry film bonded lubricants of sort, and survive and do what they are designed to do, with whatever is happening inside a barrel of a gun.
What separates one from another, is their final individual properties, such as ability to survive at higher temperatures, bonding ability with conditions of use, ability to separate bore and alloy in applications they are used, and most importantly , not leave residues behind.
You are talking about huge forces being generated on the alloys. Even Copper Jacketing has been destroyed in some applications due to alloy being pushed past its limit capacity to react with the massive energy input.

[HI-TEK]

Certainly could have been faster as I did not run them over the chrony. Conditions didn't allow it. Very cool results though. I shall run them over my chronograph next chance I get. Also important to note recovered boolits were perfect except for their new polygonal shape. :grin:97769

Thanks for your post.
Can you please advise what gun you shot these with?

[kweidner]

It was a Glock g35. Glock barrel. So many customers shoot them I had to have a test platform. Not really ever been a Glock fan but this one is certainly growing on me. Added a 2# connector and springs, little polishing, good sights etc. This gun runs well and is VERY accurate for a Glock In my opinion. I am using Tite Group and can load anywhere from 3.2 grains to 4.3 with the factory recoil spring and get good accuracy. With ALL loads bullet recovery looks like the one pictured with Gold. I run my crimp a little tight for function in other platforms with tighter chambers as you can see by the bullet. Regardless it makes it down the barrel perfect.

[Ausglock]

What weight bullet? I run the Lee 175FP in my G35. WSF powder 6.4gn. 2 coats of red copper.

[kweidner]

What weight bullet? I run the Lee 175FP in my G35. WSF powder 6.4gn. 2 coats of red copper.

It's the 180 NOE

[Ausglock]

I'm looking at getting Tom at accuratemolds to cut a 220gn FP with no groove for my 40 cal.

[kweidner]

Yes I have 3 of Tom's molds and they are awesome. I love the thickness of the sprue plate and use his modified sprue. It will drop what he says I can assure you if you give him your info. I am mold poor for the time being. I have been putting my money back into my business and primers are next. Everytime I turn around I'm ordering 10000 more. This time I hope not to buy primers for a long time. 10000 doesn't last very long.

[Ausglock]

I have 3 of Tom's 5 cavity ali molds and they are the duck's guts. I have the Lee sprue handle on mine.

[Lizard333]

"Ducks guts". Must be an Australian thing. Never heard that one before.

[leadman]

I had mixed some military grade moly in with the liquid Hi-Tek Red Copper to see if it might improve the accuracy of boolits at high velocity. Did ok with the 223 Rem in the 23' Contender bull barrel up to about 2,800 fps then the groups turned into shotgun patterns and got the light gray puff of smoke out of the barrel. Th Mosin Nagant that shot terrific groups last time did not have any good groups but the starting loads were at 1,800 fps to almost 2,000 fps. Previous loads were up to 1,800 fps or so. Had the same puff of light smoke from the barrel at about 1,850 fps.
The results were so poor I am not even going to measure them.
Not positive why this happened but I think that the moly weakened the coating and while there was no leading it just did not work.

I may try adding a conventional lube to some of the 22 cal. boolits to try to determine if the accuracy is improved with this addition or hurt by it.

[HI-TEK]

I had mixed some military grade moly in with the liquid Hi-Tek Red Copper to see if it might improve the accuracy of boolits at high velocity. Did ok with the 223 Rem in the 23' Contender bull barrel up to about 2,800 fps then the groups turned into shotgun patterns and got the light gray puff of smoke out of the barrel. Th Mosin Nagant that shot terrific groups last time did not have any good groups but the starting loads were at 1,800 fps to almost 2,000 fps. Previous loads were up to 1,800 fps or so. Had the same puff of light smoke from the barrel at about 1,850 fps.
The results were so poor I am not even going to measure them.
Not positive why this happened but I think that the moly weakened the coating and while there was no leading it just did not work.

I may try adding a conventional lube to some of the 22 cal. boolits to try to determine if the accuracy is improved with this addition or hurt by it.

Thanks for your post.
I refer back to our very first coating mixtures. We had similar disasters and even worse.
We could not even hit the target.
After much hair ripping and frustration, we finally determined that the coatings were much too slippery and did not allow adequate hydraulic sealing of barrel and pressures were not building up to maintain accuracy.
I am now wondering if you may have also confirmed such results as well.
With regards to puff of smoke coming out of barrel, it may be powder burning outside barrel.

I dont know for sure, but it certainly is looking that way.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Shot my first coated bullets tonight.
They worked awesome.
38s with coated 358495
38s with 2 coated round balls
40s with 401638

Awesome! Barrels are shiny and clean. Thanks hi-tek !

[HI-TEK]

Shot my first coated bullets tonight.
They worked awesome.
38s with coated 358495
38s with 2 coated round balls
40s with 401638

Awesome! Barrels are shiny and clean. Thanks hi-tek !


Great result.
My pleasure, and also, that you have also confirmed that material simply works.
Thanks much for your posting

[bmiller]

Hi-tek, it had finally warmed up to 20 degrees f outside. I have an un heated shop. Should I preheat the bullets to 100 degrees f and tumble? Or, should I tumble them cold and run a heat gun over them to dry them before baking? Thanks!

P.S. Where is this F'n global warming, I feel cheated!

[HI-TEK]

Hi-tek, it had finally warmed up to 20 degrees f outside. I have an un heated shop. Should I preheat the bullets to 100 degrees f and tumble? Or, should I tumble them cold and run a heat gun over them to dry them before baking? Thanks!

P.S. Where is this F'n global warming, I feel cheated!

bmiller
I feel for you. I do not know how any one can live in such inhospitable cold.
With coating at that temperatures, where solvent dries very slow, all I can refer to is locals who in winter, have a small room heater with fan, and they gently aim warm air into tumbler to aid with solvent evaporation.
They do not allow the coatings to become sticky during coating process as they tend not to slide out and stick together when trying to empty mixer.
I dont like that arrangement as heating elements are very hot, and there is possibility of a fire or a flash where solvents may ignite.
Producing warmed air remotely and ducting to work areas may be a better solution.
Please keep in mind, that tumbling/coating only needs to proceed until alloys are coated, (15-20 seconds).
Then it is dumped onto drying rack/mesh, where warmed air is directed to help with drying.
If drying projectiles feels warn to touch, (about 30-35C) they should be OK. However, I would simply try and cook a few first, to ensure that coating sticks after cure, and before placing large amounts into an oven, that may appear dry, but may be not dry adequately.
If test bake amount cooks up OK, then only cook larger amounts of the dry coated alloy.
Because solvent drying also chills alloy, it can trap moisture inside coating.
This trapped moisture is more problematic with drying, and has to be removed before baking.
Trapped moisture is in majority cause of poor adhesion to alloys during baking of first coat.
Once coating is heated to 200C and is not bonded, you CANT FIX ADHESION PROBLEM with application of second coat. It is a re-melt job.
Hope this helps with your questions.

Global warming... the people here all laugh at the fools that keep on with this agenda.
It is a hot debated topic.
It seems nothing more that scare mongering so the government hands out more moneys for research and keeps these folk employed for many years.

[larrymac1]

I have yet to put in my .02 cents worth so here goes. Using the hi-tek gold for 9mm and .223 cast boolits. Purchased an expensive oven from Walmart. It was on the end cap with blenders at $16.99. It is called the ToastMaster. If you go for this note that the temp settings are not correct. Timer is OK but temps definately off. First batch of 223 coated and toasted at 375 setting. Came out very dark for a gold. Ran the second coating and got a burnt bronze color that literally flaked off in my hands. Rough surface. I thought it was cooking time so reduced the time and still got the effect. Dialed the oven back to a 250 degree setting and cooked. Not hot enough and bullets came out rough second coating made it worse. Went to 275 degrees and found the sweet spot but boolits were still coming out with a rough texture on the second coating. Donnie suggested additional acetone and that helped some. Color was still not what I was looking for in the gold though. Finally figured out that an open air container for my mix was causing the acetone to evaporate and thicken the mixture causing the grainy feel and look. Went to Goodwill and found a small runners water bottle that was opaque enough the see the mixture with a pop open top for drinking. Found the gold to be quite tasty (just kidding). The pop up top lets me dribble mixture over the boolits. This solved some issue with rough texture but not all. I still had some clumping on some of the bullets. It finally dawned on me that the mixing container still had some mix on the sides that was still sticky and very thick. When shaking a new batch they would stick to the sides briefly and pull some of the thicker mixture off and it made the boolits very rough. I went to the local Lowe's Hardware and found a small painting bucket that you could buy clear plastic liners for. I use one for the first coating. I coat all the bullets I am going to do for the day at in small groups but all with the same container. When I come to the second coating I toss the liner and use a fresh one. The rough clumpy look is nearly completely gone. Color is more what I anticipated. For the 223 the 1/4 wire mesh you buy is still to big and boolits get caught sideways and some will even fall completely through the mesh. So back to Goodwill (I like Goodwill because they are cheap). I found three wire mesh baskets used for in and out boxes on a desk. The bottoms are rippled so you could get your fingers under a stack of papers. The ripples were perfect. The mesh is very fine and the ripples allowed for easy separation of the coated bullets. I can line about 10-12 in the bottom of the ripple and then additional ones on the flat surface at the top of the ripple. I can easily fit 150 .223 boolits on a tray. Lots of air flow so drying time was not affected. I got a $5 desk fan from Walmart and it is perfect to sit in front of the baskets to aid in drying time and takes up little workbench space. The 1/4 inch wire mesh still covers the cooking grate in the oven. I looked it over and on this mesh there is an upper wire and lower wire. I made sure the upper wire was running on the long side of the grate. This allows me to place the 223 bullets lengthwise on the grate and the upper wire acts as a small place holder for the boolits. Even though the oven grate is much smaller than the letter baskets but laying the boolits end to end with a small gap between I can still cook 150 at a time. I put so much gap on the paper trays that I could probably put 200+ on there if I chose to.
Last night I 'cooked' 350 9mm and 150 223 and got some really nice boolits with smooth coatings.

I am using CFE and H335 for my test loads and still have not found a load that provides the accuracy that I am wanting. Experiments continue. Today I will gas check 50 and load starting at 18 grains of CFE (anything lower will not cycle in my AR) I will load 5 with gas check and five without and move up a half grain until I get 100 boolits loaded. So far all the accuracy testing has been for naught. Today is still cool here but we are supposed to be back in the 70's tomorrow. If your interested I will post results. I fired some off at full powderload on Sunday and got a lot of smoke I for the 20 rounds fired at 50 yards. Of the 20 rounds with 26 grains of CFE three hit paper. It was not the target I was aiming at but two of the other three targets I had posted. The target area is 12" x 12" with an additional 5 five inches vertically and 2" horizontally. So we are talking roughly targets of 14 x 17" size. I put four on the backboard down range. I aimed at the bull on the upper left and put 2 in the bottom of the target on the lower right just about 2" from the bottom. The third hit was bottom edge of the lower left target. So accuracy is an issue at full load. With just lubed gas checked bullets starting at 17 grains I didn't find much accuracy until about 21 grains of powder. Firing 10 rounds per target at 21 grains 9 of 10 found the target with a spread of about 7 inches for the holes in the target, although a couple were just outside of the 1" bullseye. So this gave me some promise. I will be testing the coated bullets and see if this can improve. If I can not do any better than this I will have a 2 cavity die and top punch and lube die for the Lyman for sale. My AR is a 1 in 7 twist. It shoots heavier bullets well but 55 grain on good to 10 yards. I am going to load for my 22-250 as well and see how those turn out too.

I am open to any additional suggestions. I am looking at a 1 to 10 upper to just improve longer range accuracy with the 55 grain.

[popper]

Use lino or bake 1 hr. at a slightly lower temp for the 223, then WD. IIRC, freightman is doing that in 223 with reasonable results. Baking anneals the alloy, so it strips in that fast twist. GC doesn't solve the problem.

[leadman]

Hi-Tek, referring to my last post on mixing in the moly with the coating. The gray puff of smoke is the same as when I pushed an alloy beyond its yield strength and had the same light gray puff of smoke out of the muzzle.
The top velocity was slightly lower than the results from previous testing. Possible either the powder is not burning well or the coating is breaking down and causing an increase in friction. There was no leading just as there was no leading on previous tests where the smoke came out of the barrel.

[HI-TEK]

Hi-Tek, referring to my last post on mixing in the moly with the coating. The gray puff of smoke is the same as when I pushed an alloy beyond its yield strength and had the same light gray puff of smoke out of the muzzle.
The top velocity was slightly lower than the results from previous testing. Possible either the powder is not burning well or the coating is breaking down and causing an increase in friction. There was no leading just as there was no leading on previous tests where the smoke came out of the barrel.

It would be very useful if we can somehow capture the projectiles.
That way we could have better understanding of what is actually happening with alloy and coating.
If there was no Leading inside Barrel, it suggests that coating survived OK.
Using a material like Moly, you should not get increase in friction.
The coating should not break down, and the lack of Leading suggests that coating did its job and separated alloy from Barrel.
With respect to losing accuracy, we have found that a very slippery surface/coating caused inaccuracy, as there was a significant reduction of friction, which prevented correct pressure build up and contributed also inaccuracy, as alloy did not seal barrel adequately due to increase of slipperiness.
There seems to be a very fine line between having a slippery surface and accuracy with lubes, and , tests like what you have done, seems to be displaying what is seeming to happen, when lube used overcomes friction.
I am very please with your ideas of pushing the boundaries with coating and lubes.
Please keep up the good work and post your findings.

[Gremlin460]

I baked 800 casts yesterday that were waiting for their last run through the oven , they went in nice and smooth and came out rough as sand paper.. Had me scratching my head for awhile until I remembered the day I coated them, we had extreme high humidity and I bet I captured some of the moisture under the coating....
Bugger, lesson learnt, avoid coating in 98% humidity days...
No harm done... moving on..

[HI-TEK]

I baked 800 casts yesterday that were waiting for their last run through the oven , they went in nice and smooth and came out rough as sand paper.. Had me scratching my head for awhile until I remembered the day I coated them, we had extreme high humidity and I bet I captured some of the moisture under the coating....
Bugger, lesson learnt, avoid coating in 98% humidity days...
No harm done... moving on..


That was a blue and a half.
Did you try the smash test?
If smash test was OK, and coating did not come off, then simply size and recoat.
Sizing will remove most irregularities and give you a good surface to recoat.
It may be salvageable if coating has in fact bonded to alloy with first coat, and next coat should cover imperfections..

[larksaw]

In general, coatings you describe is aimed at separating alloy from barrel.
It is important that such coatings stay put whilst alloy travels along the barrel.
So, a good bond is essential for that to happen.
The Hi-Tek nor Powder coating can interfere with hydraulic deformations taking place, (obturation).
They are not armour plating, but are used as dry film bonded lubricants of sort, and survive and do what they are designed to do, with whatever is happening inside a barrel of a gun.
What separates one from another, is their final individual properties, such as ability to survive at higher temperatures, bonding ability with conditions of use, ability to separate bore and alloy in applications they are used, and most importantly , not leave residues behind.
You are talking about huge forces being generated on the alloys. Even Copper Jacketing has been destroyed in some applications due to alloy being pushed past its limit capacity to react with the massive energy input.

I fully understand what you are stating but my thoughts are the bonding of your coating to the lead is also changing the characteristics of the bullets and its ability to stay together at the higher velocities. Leadman adds Moly to the mix it changes the characteristics of what your coating is doing to the lead and poof. It seems the bonding is acting like a condom helping to hold together the bullet once it exists the muzzle, I'm not saying by how much, but it seems to be the case. I fully understand what the intent of your lube is but as a by products it seems with the bonding to the lead its changing the lead bullets ability of staying together longer with all the forces that are being applied no matter how slight. I don't know if there is a way to measure or even test it. Or if you folks have already done it, but it seems that if by smashing the coated bullet is being a test of its bonding to the lead, then their should be a way to test the effect the bonding has on holding the lead bullet together when all the different force are being applied.

[dverna]

larrymac

Instead of investing in a new upper, why not invest in a mold for a heavier bullet? That is the approach I am taking. For plinking/varmint ammo, a 65 or 70 gr bullet would be very effective up to 200 yards. The heavier bullet will have a better chance of accuracy in the fast twist.

Don Verna

[larrymac1]

larrymac

Instead of investing in a new upper, why not invest in a mold for a heavier bullet? That is the approach I am taking. For plinking/varmint ammo, a 65 or 70 gr bullet would be very effective up to 200 yards. The heavier bullet will have a better chance of accuracy in the fast twist.

Don Verna

That is a good thought. Any recommendations on a mold?

[dverna]

Larrymac1,

This is the mold I purchased, but the GB is clsoed:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?188868-MiHec-22-Nato-Heavy-(75-gr-version)-brass-four-amp-six-cavity-solid

But there are quite a few heavy .224 molds out there. These custom molds are not cheap ($150) but I like the production capacity of the 6 cavities. I am going to start with White Label Lubes (just because that is what I have and what I am set up for) but if they do not work, I am keeping Hi-Tek or PC open as options.

Getting cheap plinking bullets for the AR would be a great but I want no more than 5" groups at 200 yards. Hopefully better than that.

Too darn cold to do any casting or shooting now so I wait in anticipation.

Good luck,

Don verna

[kweidner]

Posted this in the handgun section but not all browse that. I had tom draw me up a mold for my 357pd. It seems to really like the 200gr fodder. No lube groove and retains the crimp. I will coat with probably the gold.....or maybe the new red I just got. I will keep you posted. Coating is the only way to go!
98814

[Gremlin460]

389 fired today , Berreta 92FS, SA-XDM, SA 1911 Loaded (NIB), STI 1911, Zero leading in all guns, dry cloth on wire brush, in/out barrels gleamingly spotless. Gold Metalic and Bronze metallic, a few reds thrown in. Loaded with AP50N @ 3.2gn OAL 1.120 +/- .002.
Loaded 100 with 3.1gn all other specs the same, recoil down by a noticeable margin, 40/40 in 10 circle at 7yard line.
Time to move on to some Green me thinks.

PS auto-sizer 40% done, pics later when complete.

Off to deprime 400 brass ready for cleaning....

Trev, you know of anyone local who has SS pins media for wet tumbling?

[Ausglock]

no. I have been looking for some myself.

[220]

Managed to test some loads in my 357 & 45/70 over the weekend.
Have a new 180gr NOE mould for 357 with HP pins that throws a GC HP around 175gr using 50/50 WW and pure with 2% tin.
Had the young bloke shooting while I recorded velocity, at 50 all 5 shot groups were around the 2" and velocity ranged from a touch over 1300fps for the start load to mid 1500's where we stopped. Bullets were coated with HiTek red copper, haven't cleaned yet but given we didn't see any drop off in accuracy after 25 rounds I don't think leading is going to a problem.
After running about 50 mixed loads that I wanted to get rid off through it plinking we discovered the mount base was loose so it is possible it may have been when we tested.
I would have preferred groups around 1" but 2" will still be useful accuracy for hunting and do in a pinch for silhouette.

In the 45/70 I have been loading the 340gr lee for a while but decided to test a few different sizes with the HiTek coating. We fired about 35 shots before we shot for accuracy with the young bloke shooting again.
.459 the young bloke called the first shot as pulled to the right, and then put the next 4 into 1 1/4" at 100m even with the first shot it was still under 3". .458 didn't shoot near as well, shots were evenly spread around the target in a 4" group.

I guess we learnt a little, HiTek will definetly work in micro groove in the 357 and bullet fit is still important. Will have to retest the 357 ensuring the base is tight, I will also get a 359 size die when funds allow and see if it improves accuracy.

[Love Life]

I picked up some fired 358429 boolits coated with HTSC red copper that I fired in July of 2013. They have been sitting on the range getting sunned, snowed, rained on, frozen, etc for over six months and the coating was still intact and could not be scraped off with a fingernail. How's that for an endurance test?

[Love Life]

Check out this read concerning boolit size...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?233967-Fun-with-the-10mm!!

[leadman]

larrymac1, I have had some success shooting 22 cal boolits over the last 15 years or so. With the Hi-Tek Red Copper with extreme catalyst and heat treated linotype I have gone beyond jacketed bullet velocity. Accuracy was decent but not what I would use for varmints. I'm working on this part.
I cast all of my 22 cal boolits from lino just because it fills out so well and weight is more consistent. You do need to sort by weight. I usually group plus or minus .25grs for general shooting. If you heat treat the lino install the gas checks before doing this, especially if they are aluminum.
I use a modified baking to keep most of the heat treated bhn. I watch the temperature on my DVOM until it is almost 400 degrees, then turn the temperature down to under 300 degrees and let the time expire. I do 2 coats.
I use H4895 but am going to try 8208 to see if accuracy improves. I did run some of the 45gr Lyman RN in my son's AR and they shot very well with about 24gr of H4895 for 2,700 fps and 1 1/2" groups.
I recently bought an AR that had issues but have them ironed out so will be using it for testing also.

[bmiller]

larrymac1, I have had some success shooting 22 cal boolits over the last 15 years or so. With the Hi-Tek Red Copper with extreme catalyst and heat treated linotype I have gone beyond jacketed bullet velocity. Accuracy was decent but not what I would use for varmints. I'm working on this part.
I cast all of my 22 cal boolits from lino just because it fills out so well and weight is more consistent. You do need to sort by weight. I usually group plus or minus .25grs for general shooting. If you heat treat the lino install the gas checks before doing this, especially if they are aluminum.
I use a modified baking to keep most of the heat treated bhn. I watch the temperature on my DVOM until it is almost 400 degrees, then turn the temperature down to under 300 degrees and let the time expire. I do 2 coats.
I use H4895 but am going to try 8208 to see if accuracy improves. I did run some of the 45gr Lyman RN in my son's AR and they shot very well with about 24gr of H4895 for 2,700 fps and 1 1/2" groups.
I recently bought an AR that had issues but have them ironed out so will be using it for testing also.

What is a DVOM? Great results by the way!

[DrBill33]

RE: SS pins media
You might try this:
www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com

[Moonman]

DrBill33,

I think they ware asking about a LOCAL SOURCE fo SS Pins,

in AUSTRALIA you know, SHIPPING $$$$$.

Some are commercial casters I think and competition shooters, MUCHO ROUNDS SHOT YEARLY.

[Love Life]

So... I have been coating and shooting with HT red copper since June-ish of 2013. I use a $30 Oster oven to bake and a folgers coffee can to swirl. Here are some observations:

Oven: Stop fiddling with your knobs and get a digital timer for your cook time. You do not need a $250 oven to be successful. Seriously.
Coating: I use 5:1:9 and get fabulous results. I use 2 coats.
Aging issues: Non-existent. My bullets coated in June shoot just as well today as they did when 1st coated.
Weather issues: Non existent. Adjust your drying times based off of your temperature and you are good to go.
Leading: Non-existent
Accuracy in handguns: Very good (for me, becuase I suck) in my hand guns.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I plan to buy more this summer as I really like the stuff. It is very clean to use, load, and shoot. No weird residues, no buildup, no abrasiveness, just AWESOME!!!

[Stephen Cohen]

Gremlin460 an Ausglock, try google Aussie Sapphire Lapidary Warehouse I think you will find your stainless pins.

[Ausglock]

Gremlin460 an Ausglock, try google Aussie Sapphire Lapidary Warehouse I think you will find your stainless pins.
Thanks. I'll have a look tonight.

[Michael J. Spangler]

shot a bunch more tonight.
45 worked great
after a bunch of 40 through my barrel it was cleaner than the last time i shot it!
more 38 wadcutters and double rounds balls that worked great too

can't wait to load some hot 357 with these!

[prickett]

So... I have been coating and shooting with HT red copper since June-ish of 2013. I use a $30 Oster oven to bake and a folgers coffee can to swirl. Here are some observations:

Oven: Stop fiddling with your knobs and get a digital timer for your cook time. You do not need a $250 oven to be successful. Seriously.
Coating: I use 5:1:9 and get fabulous results. I use 2 coats.
Aging issues: Non-existent. My bullets coated in June shoot just as well today as they did when 1st coated.
Weather issues: Non existent. Adjust your drying times based off of your temperature and you are good to go.
Leading: Non-existent
Accuracy in handguns: Very good (for me, becuase I suck) in my hand guns.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I plan to buy more this summer as I really like the stuff. It is very clean to use, load, and shoot. No weird residues, no buildup, no abrasiveness, just AWESOME!!!

Very good post LL. Clear and to the point.

[Lizard333]

RE: SS pins media
You might try this:
www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com

These guys are great to work with. Used them several times.

[2wheelDuke]

I've finally gotten around to ordering some Hi-Tek to try. It's on the way now. I got a 1/2 liter of the gold. If I get it figured out the way I want, I'll be ordering plenty more.

I can't wait to mess around with it. I just cast up a bunch of boolits last night to coat when I get my stuff. I just need to either calibrate my toaster oven or clean and wire up the old house oven I've been saving then calibrate it.

[2wheelDuke]

So... I have been coating and shooting with HT red copper since June-ish of 2013. I use a $30 Oster oven to bake and a folgers coffee can to swirl. Here are some observations:

Oven: Stop fiddling with your knobs and get a digital timer for your cook time. You do not need a $250 oven to be successful. Seriously.
Coating: I use 5:1:9 and get fabulous results. I use 2 coats.
Aging issues: Non-existent. My bullets coated in June shoot just as well today as they did when 1st coated.
Weather issues: Non existent. Adjust your drying times based off of your temperature and you are good to go.
Leading: Non-existent
Accuracy in handguns: Very good (for me, becuase I suck) in my hand guns.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I plan to buy more this summer as I really like the stuff. It is very clean to use, load, and shoot. No weird residues, no buildup, no abrasiveness, just AWESOME!!!


Thanks for the tip. Digital timer? Like the app I have in my cell phone? That's what I plan to use.

[Gremlin460]

Gremlin460 an Ausglock, try google Aussie Sapphire Lapidary Warehouse I think you will find your stainless pins.

Thanks Stephen, checked them out a few weeks back they have only got a mixed bag of SS tumbling media, it has blocks and balls and small and large pins in it. Unless they have other stock its not listed.
I bit the bullet today and ordered 10# from the usa, 33 for the media and 35 for the freight.... we get ripped again..

As a side note I bought 5K of once fired 9mm brass yesterday, 99% fedral headstamp, for $80. I thought that was a reasonable price.
Auto-Sizer works fine manually, just need to get reduction gbox now, don't think an induction motor is going to like running at 50-60 rpm from 1440..

[Moonman]

2wheelDuke,

I use the GOLD and really like it.
I mix 5/1/7 and do 2 coats.
I may try Love Life's 5/1/9 the next time just to see.

I also just received some of SNS CASTINGS "NEW"
9 MM 125 Grain RN (.356) "HI-TEK" GOLD Coated, and they LOOK GREAT.

NEW WITH "NO LUBE" OR CRIMP GROOVES.
$42.45/500 SHIPPED PRICE, 92/6/2 ALLOY

[Moonman]

Gremlin460,

Tumble the SS Media ALONE the FIRST TIME to let it DE-BURR ITSELF.

[btroj]

So... I have been coating and shooting with HT red copper since June-ish of 2013. I use a $30 Oster oven to bake and a folgers coffee can to swirl. Here are some observations:

Oven: Stop fiddling with your knobs and get a digital timer for your cook time. You do not need a $250 oven to be successful. Seriously.
Coating: I use 5:1:9 and get fabulous results. I use 2 coats.
Aging issues: Non-existent. My bullets coated in June shoot just as well today as they did when 1st coated.
Weather issues: Non existent. Adjust your drying times based off of your temperature and you are good to go.
Leading: Non-existent
Accuracy in handguns: Very good (for me, becuase I suck) in my hand guns.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I plan to buy more this summer as I really like the stuff. It is very clean to use, load, and shoot. No weird residues, no buildup, no abrasiveness, just AWESOME!!!


I do likewise. I adjust bake time for bullet weight. 44 and 45 cal get 12 minutes, 9 mm only 10 minutes.

This isn't rocket science guys. I adjusted my oven dial with a thermometer and then left it alone.

I did water drop some bullets after a final coating the other day. They hardened up nicely after 24 hours. I think I will try some rifle bullets again with a final water drop and see how it goes.

Only one way to learn, right?

[Liberty'sSon]

Grem, where in the US did you find Stainless media for $33 per 10lbs? That's a great price.

[Stephen Cohen]

Grem I just checked sapphire they now have 5pound {2.25KG} Stainless pins 1mm x 10mm for $80 AU, yes we get screwed again on price.

[Love Life]

Thanks for the tip. Digital timer? Like the app I have in my cell phone? That's what I plan to use.

Correct. I use my Lap top computer, but a stop watch works.

I do 12 minutes for 40 and 45 caliber. I do 9 1/2 minutes for 358 and smaller.

It is truly easy. I've watched people with both HI-TEK and PC chase the unicorns all over the pplace, and I just keep on trucking followiing the supplied instructions and not fiddling with my oven knob. My oven even came with a 4 year warranty.

What I am saying is do not overthink this. Cast, coat, bake, coat, bake, shoot. Be prepared to screw up your 1st couple batches, but you can just remelt those bullets and cast them again. It's a great product that is ready to roll. No voodoo or hocus pocus needed. Cast, coat, bake, coat, bake, shoot.

[Love Life]

I do likewise. I adjust bake time for bullet weight. 44 and 45 cal get 12 minutes, 9 mm only 10 minutes.

This isn't rocket science guys. I adjusted my oven dial with a thermometer and then left it alone.

I did water drop some bullets after a final coating the other day. They hardened up nicely after 24 hours. I think I will try some rifle bullets again with a final water drop and see how it goes.

Only one way to learn, right?

Evil wizard....

[Moonman]

Keep NOTES on what works for YOU and YOUR SET UP.

Get your oven temp set and leave it alone, vary your time,

usually in the 10 to 12 minute bake time for me doing 9 MM to 45 ACP.

You'll get it down quickly.

Once you get Rockin' Baby you're REALLY ROCKIN' with this stuff.

I'm 9 MM loading right now with "NEW" Commercial Bullets from SNS Casting,

NO GROOVES AT ALL, 125 grain, .356, RN, 92/6/2 alloy GOLD HI-TEK coating.

Using W231 for powder, doing some load work ups for my 9's.

Weather will break soon and back to casting/coating then.

I use 2 coats GOLD with 5/1/7 mix, I'm going to try 5/1/9 mix next (GOLD)

just to see how it coats.

[Love Life]

The 5:1:9 allows thinner coats. I may drop to 5:1:7 for my 10mm boolits.

[Ausglock]

Yep. cast, coat bake, shoot.
Easy as falling off a log.

So easy and simple. oven is set and forget.
5-1-7 for liquid coating.
1 Tablespoon to 75mls of acetone for the new powder hi-tek.

[Love Life]

Hows that powder HT working? I've been away from the thread for quite a bit.

[HI-TEK]

Hows that powder HT working? I've been away from the thread for quite a bit.

We have been very busy with development.
Had made several batches, and some worked and some did not.
Now all the bugs seem to have been sorted out, and the tested powders seems to be working great, and produces same result as solvent system.
It is now decision making to see if we scale up to making commercial volumes.
It may be several months before larger amounts are available and will really depend on interest shown, or orders received for the products.
Will keep you posted.

[Love Life]

I'd definately like to try some of the powder stuff.

[btroj]

I'd definately like to try some of the powder stuff.

Me too!

The liquid is good stuff but the idea of measuring some powder, adding acetone, and getting to work has merit. The shipping should be easier and cheaper too.

I need to do more testing on water dropping after the last baking, it seems to be giving good results so far. Time will tell.

[Love Life]

I'll be trying the water dropping as well. I wonder if the hardening of the outside of the alloy will hurt the coating. additionally you will have to size before you water drop since it only surface hardens and lead work softens. Hmmm.

[Moonman]

Seems to me more people are NOW paying attention to this HI-TEK
coating in the USA.

[btroj]

I don't think the work hardening is a big deal.

I have also been coating, sizing, coating the water dropped bullets. They are quenched only after the final baking. They seem to be hardening quite nicely.

I need to see what my 375 says after I get some bullets coated and water dropped for it. That should do the trick.

[Love Life]

Seems to me more people are NOW paying attention to this HI-TEK
coating in the USA.

It is the bomb diggity. Just cast, swirl, bake, swirl, bake, shoot, and smile. No need for non stick foil, ES guns, fixtures, wires, waiting for the planets to align before doing the PC swirl method, etc.

The product and the system just flat out work. I take my time and I can cast and coat 2,000 bullets a week in between prepping and loading match ammo, loading pistol fodder, opening up lee sizing dies because they suck, being a dad, etc.

No funky buildup, no abrasiveness, no hocus pocus and voodoo over powders. My time is worth something, and HT gives me my time.

[btroj]

Well put LL. My feelings exactly. Hi-Tek works, why mess with other coatings.

[dverna]

HI-Tek,

If you are looking for orders to justify production may I suggest a separate thread - maybe like we do for Group Buys. Just tell us what colors (colours for our Queen's English friends), sizes of containers available, and price and we can sign up. Group buys are very successful for both the seller and the buyer. A 100+ page thread with useless comments is not the way to establish true market interest. I would be interested in purchasing some as well. For a die hard Star user this is like disowning a child - LOL

Powdered Hi-Tek makes a lot of sense.

Don Verna

[Love Life]

Run the Ht boolits through your star, but I'll match your production with my lee sizer!

[btroj]

Run the Ht boolits through your star, but I'll match your production with my lee sizer!

I actually use a Lee for my 44 and 45 Bullets. I have sizers in the right size for those calibers and they work fast. I also know they are grease and oil free so subsequent costs will stick!

Coat, bake, size, coat, bake, load, shoot. Pretty simple really.

[Love Life]

Pretty simple really.

That's not what I heard!!:kidding:

[Ausglock]

So... I have a heap of test samples of the powdered HI-TEK here.
I'm about to tip them out as I have too many.
Anyone want them??? :kidding: :lol:

[Ausglock]

HI-Tek,

If you are looking for orders to justify production may I suggest a separate thread - maybe like we do for Group Buys. Just tell us what colors (colours for our Queen's English friends), sizes of containers available, and price and we can sign up. Group buys are very successful for both the seller and the buyer. A 100+ page thread with useless comments is not the way to establish true market interest. I would be interested in purchasing some as well. For a die hard Star user this is like disowning a child - LOL

Powdered Hi-Tek makes a lot of sense.

Don Verna
Don.
Why would he pissaround with a group buy when he can sell through distributors?

[Gateway Bullets]

HI-Tek,

If you are looking for orders to justify production may I suggest a separate thread - maybe like we do for Group Buys. Just tell us what colors (colours for our Queen's English friends), sizes of containers available, and price and we can sign up. Group buys are very successful for both the seller and the buyer. A 100+ page thread with useless comments is not the way to establish true market interest. I would be interested in purchasing some as well. For a die hard Star user this is like disowning a child - LOL

Powdered Hi-Tek makes a lot of sense.

Don Verna

Don,

Be patient, its coming to the states soon!

Its not an issue of a group buy, its an issue of simple economics. Why should Hi-Tek invest big money to import his "11 herbs ans spices" to his shop, and only have a few dozen buyers in the states? Do I think it will sell like hotcakes here? YES! But there is no way to predict needed quantities to fulfill possible sales. I know im not willing to fork out 20k to take a chance!

Don I also just added a thread in the group buy section for the powdered version of the coating. So if anybody wants to pre-order the powder let me know. I should have some soon...... RIGHT JOE?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Liberty'sSon]

Ok on a related note, I need some help. It's not totally Hi Tek related but they are HT coated Boolits. I was having problems with the coating being pierced/scraped right at the crimp junction. I think I've got that solved by seating and crimping in two different stations, but I am still getting a slight semi circular cutting on the base of the Boolits. It happens in the seating step, I've tried adjusting the case flare and I'm quite certain that it's not the top edge of the case that's causing the cutting. It's just odd. Maybe some with more cast reloading experience can help, but I'm not sure one would notice it if the Boolits weren't coated. I'll try to post a pic that you hopefully can see what I'm talking about.99476

[Love Life]

Can you take a better picture?

[Ausglock]

i should have some soon...... Right joe?!?!?!?!?!?!?
hahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahaha

you funny... Hahahahahaha.

[Ausglock]

Alright. I'm letting the cat out of the bag.
HI-TEK Joe has been working on a hybrid Black powder with Gold metallic elements embeded in it.
I have mixed and coated with it and have fired 500 rounds through my Kimber Stainless Target 2 in 38 Super.

This coating looks and works great.
Imagine a dark charcoal with gold flek (like candy apple red only black & gold).

This new colour is called "Texas Tea"

If you remember the Beverly Hillbillies theme song, then you will remember " oil that is, Black Gold, Texas Tea"

I just loaded 100 of these for a safety course I'm conducting tomorrow.

[Liberty'sSon]

Love Life, I'll try later this pm. The iPad camera isn't too hot.

[Gremlin460]

As promised , Picture of the completed auto-sizer, still in manual form here , waiting for the reduction box to arrive.. works like a charm.

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac14/Gremlin460/DSC_00431_zps85382eb2.jpg

Trev got any green you getting rid off?

[Ausglock]

no green powder.

A bit of bronze and a few reds

[dverna]

Don.
Why would he pissaround with a group buy when he can sell through distributors?

Trevor

Read his post 2643. No need to apologize.

If I did not understand what Joe wrote, then the apology is mine. I understood that he was trying to determine interest before gearing up for commercial production.

Gateway, good move!!!

Don Verna

[bmiller]

As promised , Picture of the completed auto-sizer, still in manual form here , waiting for the reduction box to arrive.. works like a charm.

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac14/Gremlin460/DSC_00431_zps85382eb2.jpg

Trev got any green you getting rid off?

I have been thinking about something like this. Nice job, is that a bullet collator for the sizer in your pictures?

[Gateway Bullets]

hahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahaha

you funny... Hahahahahaha.

Taint funny Trevor!!!! If he would stop giving you all the samples, I would have my supply by now!lol lol lol

[Ausglock]

We have been very busy with development.
Had made several batches, and some worked and some did not.
Now all the bugs seem to have been sorted out, and the tested powders seems to be working great, and produces same result as solvent system.
It is now decision making to see if we scale up to making commercial volumes.
It may be several months before larger amounts are available and will really depend on interest shown, or orders received for the products.
Will keep you posted.

Don. I see nothing there about a group buy.
I accept your apology.

[HI-TEK]

Taint funny Trevor!!!! If he would stop giving you all the samples, I would have my supply by now!lol lol lol

Fair comment, but slightly off the mark
If I had sent you product, and, not tested first, and they did not work,
I would have no end of complaints, emails and other things to contend with.
At least being local, I can have a much more hands on diagnosis if things do not go the way it should.
Turnaround testing and response time is a few days.
How would I do such diagnostics and repairs to refine product as I can here, ?
With any product is in US, where it takes weeks of sending any product, if it fails to perform, and after hundreds of email, telephone calls, and other tests, not just saying "it is not working, and I dont know", how could I fix any problems?

As I advised previously, I have made products that worked, and some that did not.

It all ate up my precious stock of materials which I used to prepare products that were destined to be sent as product to the US.
Within a very short time, and due to local testing and input, I was able quickly diagnose and fix the problems with materials that did not work.
Now it is all OK.

Having exhausted my raw material stocks, I had to again hand over moneys by the bucketful, and in advance, so I can be proactive in supplying some product quickly so it can be again "proven to work" in the USA..
I am still waiting for purchased materials to arrive.

Unfortunately that is the way of our wold... I can fix that... (I would if I could) lol

[Love Life]

The liquid HT is awesome. It has made my life better, and I believe my hair is also more full and much more blonde

[HI-TEK]

The liquid HT is awesome. It has made my life better, and I believe my hair is also more full and much more blonde


Are you drinking it or washing your hair with it...???? Lol LOL LOL

[Love Life]

I drink it after I wash my hair with it.

[btroj]

Hi-Tek, I am more than willing to wait for proper testing. The concept of a dry powder has many advantages. Another 6 months or year isnt a big deal. I'd rather have it right than fast.

[HI-TEK]

I drink it after I wash my hair with it.

That Explains all...lol...lol

And probably that is why you are having such success using it....lol lol

It is highly refined afterwards...lol...lol..lol

[Love Life]

I sold my Lyman sizers and sizing dies after my 1st success (first try shooting was a success!!) with the coating. I used that money to get a handful of lee dies, more powder, and other cool stuff.

It has made my casting for pistol so easy. No hours on end at the Lymans, no wanting to beat up baby seals because the star decided it wanted to go full retard even though I did the exact same thing I did last time, no smoke at the range, no lube buildup in my firearms or dies.

What can I say? I like the stuff. Maybe coating in an unventilated small room has something to do with it...

[Ausglock]

If you like the liquid, you will love the powder.
It's a shame the Green I use can't be converted to powder.
But as they say... if it ain't broke, don't fix it.....

[Ausglock]

Taint funny Trevor!!!! If he would stop giving you all the samples, I would have my supply by now!lol lol lol

Swap ya... Some powdered HITEK for an auto caster..... Deal?????

[prickett]

Its not an issue of a group buy, its an issue of simple economics. Why should Hi-Tek invest big money to import his "11 herbs ans spices" to his shop, and only have a few dozen buyers in the states? Do I think it will sell like hotcakes here? YES! But there is no way to predict needed quantities to fulfill possible sales. I know im not willing to fork out 20k to take a chance!


I think you answered your own question. With a group buy, he knows how many units he'll sell.

[Gremlin460]

I have been thinking about something like this. Nice job, is that a bullet collator for the sizer in your pictures?

The pink one LOL??? no its a case collator I made for the Dillon 650, I will be making a bullet collator starting next week, I need to build one that delivers the casts NOSE down rather than the normal BASE down orientation.
Initally I was going to build a standard one and insert a "flipping" device, however after seeing a few idea's I think I can make one that drops them in the correct manner.
Once completed I will size twice, once after the second coat, the second time it makes the casts just that fraction smoother, which I like.

[Gremlin460]

Range report, 280 shots, in/out dry wipe Barrel spotless.
This time I shot a load I coated 3 months ago, no problems or issues.
445 out of possible 480 score in NRA match... not to bad with a non-match barrel.

[Gremlin460]

no green powder.

A bit of bronze and a few reds

When you up this way again?, Drop in we can share coffee and BS to each other for awhile..
Would like that. If you have no takers Ill take the excess NP there.

[leadman]

Dillion is now selling SNS coated boolits. From the description it sounds like it is Hi-Tek. I'll swing by there later and see if it is.

I found the frame for my Contender 223 Rem had a sloppy hinge pin and got in some Bellm oversized pins today so maybe the testing I did earlier will need to be repeated.
I also am going to try coating some Remington .310" 180gr jacketed bullets for use in my .315" bore on my Mosin Nagant 7.62 X 54R.
Also thinking on casting some boolits of pewter and coating them to see what happens.

[Ausglock]

Grem.
No worries.

[Moonman]

leadman,

Dillon store ad says they're SNS Casting with J&M Specialty coating (picture is GOLD).

I just received some .356 125Gr RN from SNS Casting with the HI-TEK "GOLD" this week.

They're from a NO GROOVE MOLD, and look good.

[Lizard333]

Dillion is now selling SNS coated boolits. From the description it sounds like it is Hi-Tek. I'll swing by there later and see if it is.

I found the frame for my Contender 223 Rem had a sloppy hinge pin and got in some Bellm oversized pins today so maybe the testing I did earlier will need to be repeated.
I also am going to try coating some Remington .310" 180gr jacketed bullets for use in my .315" bore on my Mosin Nagant 7.62 X 54R.
Also thinking on casting some boolits of pewter and coating them to see what happens.

It's hi tek's coating. I was in there Thursday and they had some sitting on the counter.

[Ausglock]

If Dillon are selling them,
HI-TEK Joe better ramp up production and employ a boatload of Mussies.

[Moonman]

Trevor,

I figure DILLON handling the HI-TEK COATED pills will up the anti with the COMPETITIVE "BLUE" CROWD.

Really want to go WILD,

Dillon should offer a sample pack of pills with each 550 or 650, even the Square Deal B too.

That adds some SERIOUS CREDIBILITY to the product.

[Ausglock]

Yeah.

By having them listed in the Dillon "Blue Press" book, will increase exposure by a huge amount. I hope SNS casting can keep up.
I feel that this bodes well for the caster/coaters in the USA and also for Joe.

Maybe Joe needs to establish a production facility for the coatings in the USA. this will cure the "wait time" caused by shipping from OZ to the USA.

He may also needs to partner with casting equipment manufacturers, allowing the production of coating specific molds and associated gear to be made.

Has anyone heard what the hell happened to Ballisti-cast? I heard that they imploded. It seems Magma now have a monopoly on auto-casters.

[Moonman]

Trevor,

Ballisti-Cast is back running, they teamed up with a CNC machine
shop to get the bullet mold deal handled backorders and all.

Bill, the father was the owner all along and took over control
of the company from his son. (family feud????) .
They have a Mark X caster that looks pretty good.

I have a Magma Master Caster that I've never even FIRED UP yet,
having too much fun hand casting.

NO IT'S NOT FOR SALE EITHER.

[Redwoode]

Do the liquid product components have a shelf life? And, if exposed to below freezing temps during storage is it still unusable?

Best, Arnell

[Love Life]

My liquid has worked fine in my uheated garage. It has gotten below freezing a couple a times.

[Ausglock]

Moonie. master caster is too slow. I can run 3 5 cavity Accurate molds with better output by hand.

I have all my liquid coatings stored in the fridge. the catalyst lives under the bench. the coldest it gets here is about 5deg C.

[Redwoode]

Thanks for the responses. Good to hear the cold this past winter not an issue.

I'm hoping shelf life is longgg as well.

[Gremlin460]

Well this is pretty boring, no-one having problems, no one screaming and spitting at the screen.. wheres the drama, where's the edge of your seat death threats and RAGE quits from the forum!!!

All we getting is loaded 2 gazillion fired em all, no leading clean barrel yada yada yada!! Sigh.....

Joe its all your fault, we need something new, how about some glow-in-the-dark coating???
Hey mom look how fast that fire-fly is!!! Shhh keep ya head down its that damn Ausglock a few streets over again..

[Ausglock]

Not me. I live out in the scrub. nobody around for miles.

[Love Life]

Glow in the dark coating would be so awesome...just cuz!!!

[HI-TEK]

..

Joe its all your fault, we need something new, how about some glow-in-the-dark coating???
Hey mom look how fast that fire-fly is!!! Shhh keep ya head down its that damn Ausglock a few streets over again..[/QUOTE]

Gremlin,
I tried that years ago. I wanted to make Fluoro-Glow in the dark and bright colour during the day.
But alas, no good.
None of the materials survived the conditions that makes the coatings work.
I am working on a Black/Glitter Bronze colour.
It will be metallic and should really be OK with all applications.
I also have a Brown Red colour. It is not very impressive to some, but I like it.
I suppose the liking aspects are, something that is is the eye of the beholder.
These are not the glow in the dark stuff, but different....

[Ausglock]

Joe. Your phone still not working? Tried at 11am and not connected.

[HI-TEK]

Joe. Your phone still not working? Tried at 11am and not connected.

I had it diverted automatically to our other number
as for some reason we have no landline phone, but internet on same line is working.
How weird is that?
Diversion may be not working?
I will ring you.

[Gremlin460]

Joe any chance of a black with green metallic? I volunteer to try some if you can..

[leadman]

Took the new AR15 to the range today. Results with cast was not good. I think it needs some more jacketed run thru it to smooth it out some more. With jacketed Hornady soft points it is shooting better than I was today. New glasses have smaller lenses than the old pair and they are trifocals. The top line gets in the way using the AR. Hopefully some adjustment to the frames will help.
Feels like time for a nap!

[HI-TEK]

Joe any chance of a black with green metallic? I volunteer to try some if you can..


Alas, sadly, have found no Metallic materials that will stay Green.
I am exploring some potential candidates, but not sure if they will work or not, until I get my hands on them and do a little fiddling... . .

[2wheelDuke]

I finally got to try the Hi Tek coating. I bought the small gold kit from Gateway Bullets.

The hardware cloth I had around turned out to be 1/2" size. I tried to double up, but some .45 boolits still tried to sneak thru. There's a couple in the bottom of my old toaster oven.

I think they look pretty good.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n73/2wheelduke/Guns/Casting/DSC_0002_zps5aeb66ec.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/2wheelduke/media/Guns/Casting/DSC_0002_zps5aeb66ec.jpg.html)

I'd say the smash test was a pass too. I did the acetone test as well. I picked up a blue disposable rag and put some acetone on it. I could rub holes in the rag and not notice any difference in the coating. Then I still couldn't scratch that spot with my fingernail thru my rubber glove.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n73/2wheelduke/Guns/Casting/DSC_0005_zps630bb979.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/2wheelduke/media/Guns/Casting/DSC_0005_zps630bb979.jpg.html)

I broke my progressive press last night, so it's off line until I get a new connecting link. It was a bit of work to load up 50 so I could go test them, but I made it happen.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n73/2wheelduke/Guns/Casting/DSC_0014_zps05a12a65.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/2wheelduke/media/Guns/Casting/DSC_0014_zps05a12a65.jpg.html)

I got into the club for the tail end of shooting hours. Others were shooting in that last session, so I didn't get to post targets. I had to use the 5 yard snail trap. A single ragged hole with my Glock 21 at that range doesn't exactly impress me, but it's certainly a good start.

The snail trap mangles bullets pretty bad, just mashes them flat. Still, the coating held up pretty well on them. I'll post some pics of that later.

[Ausglock]

Good Job.
If that is the gold, you might want to dial the time back a bit as they are a bit dark, but if they are working fine, leave it as it is.
What mold is that?

Thanks.

[jakec]

looks good man!

[Moonman]

2wheelDuke,

ACE Hardware has 1/4" cloth if you have a store.
Pills look slightly dark to me too, but they loaded, shot, and held up.
What's not to like.
Good shooting.

[Moonman]

2wheelDuke,

SNS Casting has some 9 MM RN 125's and 45 RN 230's
NO LUBE GROOVE, projectiles HI-TEK "Gold" coated projectiles
presently for sale.

[2wheelDuke]

Thanks for the tips. I set my timer for 7 minutes, figuring by the time I got my glove off and turned the timer on, and then got to the oven after it went off, I'd be at 8 minutes.

I think the coating might be on slightly thick too. But I'm happy with my 1st attempt.

I picked up a roll of 1/4" cloth yesterday. I have some .380/9mm boolits to coat yet.

The mold is a Mihec 452-200 with round HP pins.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n73/2wheelduke/Guns/Casting/DSC_0010_zps5da8a7ce.jpg

[gunoil]

2WD

Drove a taxi in lauderdale from 73' to 80'.
nice mold, nice projectiles.

2wheel, how long did it take to get that mold after order?

[gunoil]

I landed this:

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zps128d1408.jpg


https://m.facebook.com/HardlineIndustries?id=230823310403492&refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FHardlineIn dustries


Precision CNC cut 9mm 115 grain round nose, bevel base cast iron bullet mold for making coated bullets. Auction is for mold only. This bullet design cycles perfectly in a semi-auto 9mm. Molds are designed after the H&G style block and have a thick H&G style sprue plate. They are cut from a continuous cast gray iron for a very uniform, dense, fine grained micro-structure ideal for high resistance to wear and response to heat treatment. Three alignment pins ensure perfect mold alignment and minimize the seam. All molds are hand tested and bullets from each cavity are measured and weighed to meet design specifications. We guarantee all of our molds and accept full money back returns if you are not completely happy with your purchase.

Mold Specifications
Designed and tested with 92-6-2 lead alloy, your alloy may differ in weight and diameter.
Weight: 115 gr.
As Cast Diameter: .357 +/-.001
Handles: RCBS (not included)

Custom diameter sizes can be cut. We also offer two cavity molds as well as Magma machine molds. Message us if you would like something different.

Checkout out our black powder competition rifle molds available through Sage Outfitters.

[Love Life]

^^I want one!

[gunoil]

I cant wait.

[Love Life]

Where did you get it? Anything I can trade you for a hundred or two of those bullets? Sure would like to try them out in my glocks...

[gunoil]

Yea sure, it ill be here next week.

[Moonman]

This Hardline Industries is very close to Grafton ND, the home of Ballisti-Cast.

Ballisti-Cast seems to have had a family feud and breakup late last summer.

Is Mike Sand involved with this company?

Or is this the CNC company that's helping Bill Sand at Ballisti-Cast clear up

the company backlog and general customer mess?

Just askin'.

[Love Life]

Looks like a beautiful mould and it's iron!!! Iron moulds are my absolute favorite. I'm still young and eat a large breakfast so I don't mind the weight.

[Moonman]

The question remains,

Is Hardline Industries mold making business in ND related either past

or present to Ballisti-Cast emplyees.

The IRON molds look like Ballisti-Cast's, on their Facebook page information

Says they manufacturer, Bullet Casting Bullet Molds, Bullet Casting

Machines, Lubing machines, so what's up.

This business was possibly established last Aug,

The time frame of the Ballisti-Cast family feud and breakup.

Ballisti-Casts updated information page by Bill Sand (the father)

Says Ballisti-Cast is working with another CNC machine shop

to clear up the previously ordered molds.

Their location is very near the city that Ballisti-Cast is located in ND.

Does anyone have any info on this company, all they have is a limited info Facebook page?

[gunoil]

Dont know yet on my part. We'll find out later.

[Love Life]

The question remains,

Is Hardline Industries mold making business in ND related either past

or present to Ballisti-Cast emplyees.

The IRON molds look like Ballisti-Cast's, on their Facebook page information

Says they manufacturer, Bullet Casting Bullet Molds, Bullet Casting

Machines, Lubing machines, so what's up.

This business was possibly established last Aug,

The time frame of the Ballisti-Cast family feud and breakup.

Ballisti-Casts updated information page by Bill Sand (the father)

Says Ballisti-Cast is working with another CNC machine shop

to clear up the previously ordered molds.

Their location is very near the city that Ballisti-Cast is located in ND.

Does anyone have any info on this company, all they have is a limited info Facebook page?

I honestly don't care. As long as it's a quality mould then I could care less who makes them and under what name, and what location.

[Moonman]

Love Life,

This isn't a question to you, it's asking for some relevant info

Concerning these two companies.

You may not care, BUT I DO and maybe others also who have

outstanding molds or machines from Balisti-Cast a sponsor here.

They've had some turbulent times in the last year and I'm

interested in their business health and THIS NEW ENTRY into

the mold and machine marketplace.

The new entry is severely lacking with info on their Facebook page.

[Love Life]

Are you concerned that this new company is trying to hedge ballisti-cast out? Are you concerned that ballisti-cast is punting previous orders in order to hit a different segment of the market? Are you concerned that if this is the shop doing ballisti-cast's moulds that they will drop ballisti-cast inorder to take ballisti-casts market share?

If I were a ballisti-cast customer then I would have demanded a refund by now and if no refund came then I would have brought legal action against the company.

[Gremlin460]

I cast @ 359, and size to 358 for my gun.
I was asked to set up a friends gun with some reloads, he definitely needs to be sized at .357.

Will the hitek coating take sizing from 359 cast size to 357?, does any one here size that far with their casts?

[HI-TEK]

I cast @ 359, and size to 358 for my gun.
I was asked to set up a friends gun with some reloads, he definitely needs to be sized at .357.

Will the hitek coating take sizing from 359 cast size to 357?, does any one here size that far with their casts?

Grenlin,
I have seen drastic sizing previously and coating seemed OK.
However, it may be helpful to use a dry film lube like the 5000/IPA, so the loads on sizers are significantly reduced.
It also gives a shine on sized film.
I suppose, the proof is in in the testing. Why dont you try a few and see how they go.
Would welcome your findings.

Footnote;
The best benefits of the dry lube is noticed with harder alloys, where the
re-sizing is much more difficult.
Generally, well prepared & well baked coatings should hold up OK and do the job.

[Ausglock]

Grem. no problem
I cast at .359-.360 and size to .3565 with no problems at all.
2 coats.

[220]

Will the hitek coating take sizing from 359 cast size to 357?, does any one here size that far with their casts?

Yes my NOE 180WFP throws .3605 I size them .358 without issue

[220]

I've run into a bit of a problem with the blue green, 2 coats are fine pass the wipe and smash tests and shoot without problems.
A few blokes at the club like the look and performance I'm getting with my coated boolits and have asked to buy some off me, not a problem but with 2 coats about 20% don't have total coverage, not in the lube groves etc, doesn't seem to effect performance but if I'm going to sell them I would really like them all to look pretty.
I've tried a 3rd coat and for some reason they fail the smash test, I'm baking for 10min at 190c. 3rd coat come out darker almost like it's starting to burn.
Any suggestions on what to try? Hotter, colder, shorter, longer what should I change first.

[HI-TEK]

220,

From your description, there may be a couple of things to consider.
1. If coating applied too thick, with each coat, after applying 2 coats, it does what it is supposed to do, work.
To make it look more pretty by adding a third coat, that seems to me to be too much coating overall, and 3 cooks of thick material is very hard. I would expect some cracking to occur.
You get far better results with finish, with thin coating applications and it will be OK.
2.
If you want to coat 3 times, try applying a more diluted coating mix, (use same volume as previously), and then you will get much thinner layers at each coat, and each subsequent coat should hide imperfections of previous coats.
You end up using less coating as you are applying a more diluted mix.
It is a situation of experience when coating, that you really do not need thick coats for the product to work..

[Ausglock]

220.
Mix 5-1-7.
first coat thin.
second coat a bit thicker.
You do not need 3 coats!

[220]

Thanks blokes
I realise I don't need to have the lube groves all coated for it to work so its really just a cosmetic issue not a performance problem but I would like to sort it if I can.
Already using 5-1-7 so I might try 5-1-10 use the same volume of mixed product and see what happens. Interestingly I have used 3 coats of the gold metallic and copper bronze without issues so for me it is only with the blue green it is happening.
Worst case I just stick with the 2 coats and keep the 20% that don't end up with total coverage for my own use.

[HI-TEK]

Thanks blokes
I realise I don't need to have the lube groves all coated for it to work so its really just a cosmetic issue not a performance problem but I would like to sort it if I can.
Already using 5-1-7 so I might try 5-1-10 use the same volume of mixed product and see what happens. Interestingly I have used 3 coats of the gold metallic and copper bronze without issues so for me it is only with the blue green it is happening.
Worst case I just stick with the 2 coats and keep the 20% that don't end up with total coverage for my own use.

Have been thinking about what you had experienced.
The Gold, & Bronzed Copper both have much higher heat reflecting property to the Blue/Green.
It may be a simple thing like your actual oven temperature cycling with your thermostat that may be allowing excessive heat variation during bake.
The metallics due to heat reflecting property, would cope much better with larger heat variations during cycling of thermostat.
I am not sure, but it certainly seems that way to me.
If trying to get strong coloured coatings with Blue/Green, to compare with coverage of the metallics, it certainly is steering me towards a scenario of use of too much coating thicknesses with the Blue/Green.
It would be great if you can try to do some comparisons with a more diluted system, and post your results.
Would be happy to assist as possible.

[popper]

Dark green works fine for me but sometimes the lube grooves don't get coated. Makes no difference. Sometimes they don't even come out very green but they still shoot fine.

[gunoil]

LL, & others. That company has nothin to do with balistacast.

Not even on same side of the river.

[gunoil]

Popper, u own a loadmaster?

[220]

It may be a simple thing like your actual oven temperature cycling with your thermostat that may be allowing excessive heat variation during bake.
Don't think it is oven fluctuations, using a breville smart oven and it is very consistent with temp.
Over cooking could be a possibility, 10 min at 190c but I do sit the next batches on top of the oven to ensure they are dry and for some pre heating. They are quite hot when they go in, not sure on what temp but to hot for a bare hand to hold so above 60c.
I will try 3 coats but at a thinner rate so I'm putting on the same volume of product in 3 coats instead of 2. If I was to play with temp or bake time would you start with reducing time before temp?

[HI-TEK]

Don't think it is oven fluctuations, using a breville smart oven and it is very consistent with temp.
Over cooking could be a possibility, 10 min at 190c but I do sit the next batches on top of the oven to ensure they are dry and for some pre heating. They are quite hot when they go in, not sure on what temp but to hot for a bare hand to hold so above 60c.
I will try 3 coats but at a thinner rate so I'm putting on the same volume of product in 3 coats instead of 2. If I was to play with temp or bake time would you start with reducing time before temp?

I would like to see a picture after 1 coat and then 2 coats before I can have any real idea of what is happening and what adjustments are required to make product comply.

Pre-Heating so that you cant pick them up is not necessary, and may be a problem, as you may be evaporating some of the materials that are required to correctly set coating during bake cycle.
If they are already hot, when you place product into the oven, then your cook times at 200C may be far too long.
Do not adjust temperature but if you continue to pre heat, then reduce your oven times, by a minute at a time, until you get right results.
Change only one parameter at a time. That way you can easily identify causes and results.

[Gremlin460]

Grem. no problem
I cast at .359-.360 and size to .3565 with no problems at all.
2 coats.

Thanks Trev, this barrel (match) just a fraction tight in the last 20thou of chambering with a 358 pill, and I just don't want to crimp anymore harder than its got, OAL is short enough to give clearance..

End result, they just plain to fat for this one LOL.

[Love Life]

LL, & others. That company has nothin to do with balistacast.

Not even on same side of the river.

Thanks for the info. As good as that mould looks I don't care who made it. I just want one!!

[Michael J. Spangler]

If you have any issues with hard sizing on oversized bullets I use a little Dillon case lube and I can size down a few thou with next to no effort.
Barely leaves any residue on the bullets too.

[Love Life]

If you have any issues with hard sizing on oversized bullets I use a little Dillon case lube and I can size down a few thou with next to no effort.
Barely leaves any residue on the bullets too.

I use Hornady Unique on every 10th bullet or so if needed. I then give the bullets an alcohol bath after sizing.

Just FYI, but I did a bad batch of bullets for the 45 acp awhile back ad had bad flaking and failure on the swipe test. I loaded and shot them with no leading. Pretty neat.

Next up to test is 1 coat of HT with the 45 acp.

[Ausglock]

HI-TEK makes a sizing lube. you spray it on and size away. going from .360 to .356 is a 1 finger effort.
that stuff is worth it's weight in gold.

[220]

Tried 5-1-10 today with the blue green with success.
Using the same volume of mixed HT (7ml) per 2.5kg boolits, first batch I still had a bit of product in the bottom of my swirling bucket so cut back to 6ml for subsequent batches. I actually got more even coverage with 6ml the 5-1-10 than with 7ml 5-1-7, as you can imagine it was a lighter coat but 2 coats gave me 100% coverage on 95% or more boolits.
I did give one batch a 3rd coat just to see what would happen and they passed the smash test.
Looks like my problem was that the thickness I was putting on was to much for 3 coats.
I still think I may be over cooking some boolits, with lighter boolits (around 100gr) I'm still getting a small percentage that are a darker almost golden colour.
Still cooking for 10min at 190c
I'll try to put up some pictures latter tonight.

[HI-TEK]

Tried 5-1-10 today with the blue green with success.
Using the same volume of mixed HT (7ml) per 2.5kg boolits, first batch I still had a bit of product in the bottom of my swirling bucket so cut back to 6ml for subsequent batches. I actually got more even coverage with 6ml the 5-1-10 than with 7ml 5-1-7, as you can imagine it was a lighter coat but 2 coats gave me 100% coverage on 95% or more boolits.
I did give one batch a 3rd coat just to see what would happen and they past the smash test.
Looks like my problem was that the thickness I was putting on was to much for 3 coats.
I still think I may be over cooking some boolits, with lighter boolits (around 100gr) I'm still getting a small percentage that are a darker almost golden colour.
Still cooking for 10min at 190c
I'll try to put up some pictures latter tonight.

Thanks for update and great news.
Now my only other suggestion is, that at half way point of cooking, simply take out tray/mesh, (with gloves) shake them around and place back into oven at right angles to previous position and finish bake.
That way you get more even cooking and baked finish, and more even coloured finishes..
It seems that despite your oven working OK, you may be either overloading slightly, or you may have possibly uneven air circulation around trays/mesh, due to uneven layering on trays/mesh...
Looking forward to photos.

[gunoil]

Dont forget LLife, the hi tek 5000 mold lube,,, love that stuff. No more oil'ly, grease, burnt lookin molds. Its white and super thin. Spray can or swab it on.

Mold may be here tomorrow.

[popper]

Gun oil - only loadmaster I know about is an old plane.

[outlaw....1]

I have been lurking here for some time and the product sounds great. I cant wait to try it! My only question is has any one used a Nitride finished barrel with the coated pills?

[Gateway Bullets]

The question remains,

Is Hardline Industries mold making business in ND related either past

or present to Ballisti-Cast emplyees.

The IRON molds look like Ballisti-Cast's, on their Facebook page information

Says they manufacturer, Bullet Casting Bullet Molds, Bullet Casting

Machines, Lubing machines, so what's up.

This business was possibly established last Aug,

The time frame of the Ballisti-Cast family feud and breakup.

Ballisti-Casts updated information page by Bill Sand (the father)

Says Ballisti-Cast is working with another CNC machine shop

to clear up the previously ordered molds.

Their location is very near the city that Ballisti-Cast is located in ND.

Does anyone have any info on this company, all they have is a limited info Facebook page?

Derrik and Mike had a falling out with Bill and Bill locked them out. M&D started their own company called Hardline Industries. They are making bullet molds, casting, and sizing machines.

I will let you know how the molds work as they are sending me some prototype 300 blackout mold to trial.

[Michael J. Spangler]

How much does the extreme catalyst help sizing?
I have noticed some resistance when sizing, without having the traditional lube bullet to pass through every 25 or so sizings it is a little tougher to size these.
I have used the dillon case lube with great results but would like to avoid the stickiness.

[Love Life]

How much does the extreme catalyst help sizing?
I have noticed some resistance when sizing, without having the traditional lube bullet to pass through every 25 or so sizings it is a little tougher to size these.
I have used the dillon case lube with great results but would like to avoid the stickiness.

Give them a tumble in rubbing alcohol after sizing and dump on a paper towel. No more stickiness.

[Gateway Bullets]

How much does the extreme catalyst help sizing?
I have noticed some resistance when sizing, without having the traditional lube bullet to pass through every 25 or so sizings it is a little tougher to size these.
I have used the dillon case lube with great results but would like to avoid the stickiness.

Ok, here is a little secret I will let you in on. You can get a can of Pledge (lemon of course lol) put a couple of hundred bullets into a can and put a very very small spritz on them and shake for a few seconds. You can also give your sizing die a little spritz also. Makes them run right through the sizer die. But again.... use VERY sparingly!!!!

[Ausglock]

I have been lurking here for some time and the product sounds great. I cant wait to try it! My only question is has any one used a Nitride finished barrel with the coated pills?
Work fine. no issues with Nitrided barrels.
We push coated pills through these barrels all the time here in OZ.

Gateway. what is a spritz???
Is it like a poofteenth of a micky whisker???

[Moonman]

Gateway,

Thanks for the info, I thought that's what might have happened with the new company.

Especially given the closeness of their locations.

I wish them well, we need more manufacturers.

[Moonman]

Ausglock,

A Spritz is just slightly more than the thickness of FROG Hair.

[220]

Here you go Joe some pics as promised
5-1-10 mix applied 7ml per 2.5kg boolits 1st coat, 1st bake, 2nd bake
http://madmick3006.com/ahngallery/upload/files/2014-03/8ec6e18e.jpg
Same batch of boolits one on the right is what I was refering to when I said I seem to be overcooking the odd one.
http://madmick3006.com/ahngallery/upload/files/2014-03/723a9878.jpg
Just to show I am turning out a few good ones, about 3000 on those trays mainly from lee moulds 358 105swc, 158swc TL, 158 FP, 356 124TC TL, RCBS 314 98bnwc, mixture of blue,green and gold coatings.
http://madmick3006.com/ahngallery/upload/files/2014-03/46a12990.jpg

[Moonman]

220,

Nice looking big batch there of upcoming fun guy.

[220]

220,

Nice looking big batch there of upcoming fun guy.
Need to load some more before the weekend, only the wife and myself this weekend and probably only shoot 1 match each so don't need a lot. If the kids are home and we all decide to shoot 3 matches we go through over 1000 in an afternoon.

[jakec]

nice looking boolits sir! im gonna have to try some of that gold. i use 5-1-7 and it works good. i cook mine for 9 min and my oven is set on about 380 f. my oven doesnt circulate air the best so sometimes i get some darker ones if i try to do too many at once but they shoot just as good and still pass all the test. i really like this coating. very easy and fast once i got enough drying screens and figured out a good rhythm. i also find that if i put a lid on my swirling container while i tumble i can tumble a lot longer to coat in lube grooves better. then i take the lid off and tumble a few more seconds till i feel them getting tacky then pour them on the screen to dry.

[DrBill33]

hi tek 5000 mold lube
I must have missed earlier mentions. Where does one obtain it?

[Redwoode]

Is 5-1-7 gold in oven 12 mins. that passes the acetone smear test perfectly but flakes terribly on the crush likely too low an oven temp? First coat that looks great on color is failing.

Any thoughts /suggestions greatly appreciated.

[Love Life]

I have some that I didn't bake right, flaked when smashed, and shot fine in the 45 acp and 10mm. I'd try them before I recycled them.

[220]

You could try what I did 5-1-10 and apply the same volume of mix so your actually putting on less product, doubt it is a thickness issue with first coat but worth a try.

What would be really good is a new HiTek thread with problems and possible causes
I know most of the answers are in this thread but it is getting close to 3000 posts so its hard to find the info


Flaking

*Coating to thick

[Redwoode]

Ok, I'll try the different ratio.

I'm working with small batches to get acquainted with the process and oven. It's an Oster convection with digital controls from wmart. Checked it with digital thermometer and thermocouple. It swings 30 degrees in on/off cycling. This last batch went in preheated oven cycling between 362 and 392 for 12 mins.

[Gremlin460]

Place clay bricks or pavers in the oven about 2" apart, a row along the bottom and one along the top, if you only using middle shelf and have room.
These act as heat sinks and once up to temp stop/slow any temp swings. Works for any oven , new or old and helps maintain a constant temp.

After I tried this, I found sliding in a tray of cold casts to bake, the digital readout on my thermocouple climbs rapidly back to within 10-15 degrees of target temp, showing the heat releasing effect of the heat stored in the bricks. Copper blocks would be the best but who has those laying around the garage?

Joe and Trev have consistently stated from the get-go.. controlling the temperature is a main pivotal point of success in this prosses

[Relsom]

Copper blocks would be the best but who has those laying around the garage?

I haven't tried it but what about lead bricks, or muffins, or whatever shape you have?

:idea:

[Ausglock]

Don't use them as they are not needed.
Too much over thinking the issue.

[Redwoode]

The issue is......?

Thank - you much.

[Ausglock]

The issue is......?

Thank - you much.

Heat loss during tray shaking/ tray swapping.
I've been coating for almost 12 months and never had a problem with my oven, temp or quality of coating.

[gunoil]

Hehehe, oh yea! Whos ya daddy

Scrubbed with hot water an soap, then hi-tek- supercoat 5000 mold lube.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zps8082b938.jpg

Look at real quality:
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zps2409a819.jpg

Here: gold hitek-supercoat
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zps2c98bc26.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zps276b8d02.jpg


When everything is coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.

[dverna]

Gunoil

Those are nice looking bullets. Well done sir.

Don Verna

[gunoil]

Thanks DV, almost like xtreme's, but no copper in my barrel.

Actually l lost my shine on this new color. Dont know.

[Gremlin460]

Heat loss during tray shaking/ tray swapping.
I've been coating for almost 12 months and never had a problem with my oven, temp or quality of coating.

OK if you DONT have a multi-element-perfectly-set-and monitored oven, but are poor like me and have to use second hand single elements stuff, it does not hurt to have that additional stabalization to your process.
And although not nessesary, will do you no harm..

[Redwoode]

Completely agree Gremlin. I'm trying to eliminate or at least minimize as many variables as possible. This swinging temperature has to affect consistency. I have a Frozone PID controller for lead pot temperature control I'd like to adapt the oven temp controls to.

[Redwoode]

Finally got to the bottom of my flaking problem. I bought 1K "unlubed" cast bullets that were causing all the trouble. Seems they were blue lubed and he boiled in water and soaked in acetone to remove it without saying anything. They look fine.

Tried some fresh cast and every batch passes extreme crush test with NO flaking.

Looks like some remaining lube residue was the culprit. But, he did soak in acetone overnight too. Don't know if anything left from the acetone might cause bond problems. I've read where several folks rinse with acetone beforehand. If you do and have flaking try it without.

HI-TEK Rocks! .... in spite of my dumb a_s.

[AMT7]

Finally got to the bottom of my flaking problem. I bought 1K "unlubed" cast bullets that were causing all the trouble. Seems they were blue lubed and he boiled in water and soaked in acetone to remove it without saying anything. They look fine.

Tried some fresh cast and every batch passes extreme crush test with NO flaking.

Looks like some remaining lube residue was the culprit. But, he did soak in acetone overnight too. Don't know if anything left from the acetone might cause bond problems. I've read where several folks rinse with acetone beforehand. If you do and have flaking try it without.

HI-TEK Rocks! .... in spite of my dumb a_s.

Acetone is a much slower evaporating solvent than say trichlorethane 111 or MEK or somewhat safer MEKP (methyl ethyl keytone peroxide). Guessing here a bit but my training and painting experience says he should have done multiple cleanings and followed up with ethanol to run off all the water that was carried into them by that water gathering acetone. Then baked 160F dry. Otherwise you had all kinds of residues left that would cause tons of adhesion and orange peel issues with porus lead.

[220]

Redwoode
Good to see you got the flaking sorted, I remember someone else had similar issues and it was discussed in this thread earlier but like I said almost 3000 replies makes it tough to find the info.

Retested some HT 105SWC in my 686 yesterday, think I threw one shot but still not bad for a stock 686 at 25meters. 10 shots under 2" with 9 of them just over 1"
http://madmick3006.com/ahngallery/upload/files/2014-03/2c574503.jpg

[Gremlin460]

Nice 220, well done!!! Wish I could be that good @ 75 feet..

Ausglock, Trev you just HAVE to get some of these SS Pins mate!!!!! Ripper result!, brings range scrap up to one-fired condition and once fired like new... The USA boys wont ship Lemishine to us, must think we would drink it of something,
anyway Citric Acid powder available at your home brew shop, $2.50 for 100g, only need a half tea-spoonful... I only ordered a small bag, will be getting more in the not too distant future..

[Ausglock]

Grem. Don't need it.
Corn cob media is all I use.
I'm not a shiny brass Nazi.

Cast and coated 9000 168gn 357sig pills this weekend.

[gunoil]

I shot above bullets in 9 & 380, Their great! Bevel base is the way. Not many of those molds around with bevel base. I like 5 or 6 hole molds.

[kbstenberg]

It looks like we are getting molds cut specifically for HT use having no Lube grooves.
It has hurt my head. But I have been wondering if a reduced mold size would also help in the quality of our bullets. My thinking is that about .002 is added to the diameter of each bullet per coat of HT. And most casters use 2 coats.
Would a bullet that is say .003 undersized decrease the pressure to size it?
Yes I know that sizing full sized bullets does not cause a problem. I was looking at the what iffs. Kevin

[msand]

Another thought, and this ones way out there and would need to be experimented with in a controlled setting, would be to drop the bullets .002-.003 undersized, coat them, and not size at all. I only have experience with PC bullets and lubesized lead ones, but the PC bullets go through a size die way easier then lead because of how slippery the coating is and I'm guessing Hi-Tek is the same. From what I've seen you can coat a .454 bullet to .456 and easily size it to .452, but you would either not have the strength or bend the sizer if you tried to size a non-coated bullet cast at .456 down to .452. My thought is the coating decreases friction in the bullet going down the barrel and thus pressure too. This might allow a bullet that after coating ended up .002-.003 oversized because of a bullet dropping fat from the mold for whatever reason to be safely shot. I've talked to several people that size their cast lubed lead bullets to .002 oversize instead of the traditional .001 with good results. Of course it would need to be determined just how oversized you can shoot a coated bullet safely and measures taken to insure you could never come close to that size.

[prickett]

Ok, here is a little secret I will let you in on. You can get a can of Pledge (lemon of course lol) put a couple of hundred bullets into a can and put a very very small spritz on them and shake for a few seconds. You can also give your sizing die a little spritz also. Makes them run right through the sizer die. But again.... use VERY sparingly!!!!

I hit them with a quick spray of silicon. It also works well.

[HI-TEK]

I hit them with a quick spray of silicon. It also works well.

Silicone is a no, no, no, no, and no o o o o o o......
This stuff migrates onto all surfaces, and will cause no end of problems.
You simply cant get rid of it once you apply it onto a surface, and thereafter it spreads by contact transfer to every other piece of equipment surface.
If it gets onto cast alloy, it will also cause loss of adhesion.
In Australian Car industry (Painting area), if you are caught entering any premises and they find out that you have used Silicone any where else outside, you will be ejected, and wont be allowed onto site.
Why would you need silicone at all????

[Ausglock]

I learnt years ago in the wood floor finishing courses that Silicone is a huge problem as it will embed in the wood and floor finishes will get rejected.
The only way to remove silicone from wood is to replace the timber. The floor is the last thing to be installed. that way no other trades are wandering over your floor and tracking in contaminates.
For sizing of bullets, I use the HI_TEK IPA5000 sizing lube. Best thing since sliced bread.
A bit like the extreme catalyst. makes everything size far easier.

[HI-TEK]

hi tek 5000 mold lube
I must have missed earlier mentions. Where does one obtain it?

Suitable products can be obtained from Gateway Bullets and Bayou Bullet companies.
The 5000IPA is a sizing lube and used sparingly as a dry film lube that is non staining and should reduce sizing loads greatly, especially when downsizing harder alloys or large reductions in diameters..
The other product is Mold release lube which is 500+ product. Clean dry release agent for molten alloys.
This is specifically designed for mirror finish releases of cast alloys from molds, and as spatter release agent and sprew cutter lube.
If you contact above US guys, you should be able to get what you need in small quantities and data with products..
Hope it helps

[Beau Cassidy]

Another thought, and this ones way out there and would need to be experimented with in a controlled setting, would be to drop the bullets .002-.003 undersized, coat them, and not size at all.

I am no powdercoating expert but that is the approach I am considering except I have a ton of conventional molds. I might size down 0.002 after casting than apply coating. For gas check bullets I am considering sizing down 0.002 then going back and applying a gas check at what my finished diameter would be coated.

[kweidner]

I have made and sold tens of thousands of these in loaded ammunition. I do not supply bullets but supply loaded ammunition with HT coated projectiles. (yes I have ffl etc) The trick is in the heating. No need to specify smaller diameter even with hardball. Just keep things nominal. I would not want to size them more than about .003 without using extreme catalyst for the integrity of the coating and wear and tear on your equipment. Order your molds what you want your outcome in diameter to be. The HT adds a couple thousandths and then size to what you want. Other option is to coat, size and the coat again.

[leadman]

Redwoode, a lubed boolit is probably a sized boolit. The sizing burnishes the alloy and does not allow adhesion.

On using an undersized boolit then coating it this does work. I have a couple of old mil-surp rifles that have larger bores and my mold drops about .002" undersized for these. I do 3 coats of Red Copper and they shoot very well without sizing.

[Ausglock]

Sized a few 1000 last night. .361 down to .356.
Used the IPA5000 and it was only slightly more effort needed on the handle of the press.
It is good stuff!

[2wheelDuke]

I loaded some to test fire today.

I went and test fired the last one into water jugs.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n73/2wheelduke/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140403_193506_987_zps0b93e39e.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/2wheelduke/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140403_193506_987_zps0b93e39e.jpg.html)

Looks like the rifling cuts down to bare lead. I'll have to shoot more and see if this is an issue or not.

[HI-TEK]

I loaded some to test fire today.

I went and test fired the last one into water jugs.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n73/2wheelduke/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140403_193506_987_zps0b93e39e.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/2wheelduke/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140403_193506_987_zps0b93e39e.jpg.html)

Looks like the rifling cuts down to bare lead. I'll have to shoot more and see if this is an issue or not.

Interesting results.

From what I can see, there are possibly a few areas that may need attention.
1. Coating seems much too thickly applied.
2. There seems no adhesion of the coating on the alloy.
3. There is a possibility that first coat was not bonded. Applying multiple coats, to non-bonded first coat will not fix poor first coat adhesion.
Please advise further about your coating process, and in as much detail as possible.
That way many can advise on various aspects.

[2wheelDuke]

My technique had already started to evolve when I made those, but the coating was measured with the "S.W.A.G." method, which is a Scientific Wild @ssed Guess.

I put some in a cool whip tub, and applied some coating mix, swirled, then dried. I can't recall how long I dried them for. Possibly not long enough, since I spoke to Mike in chat and he recommended at least 30 mins to dry, not just until they're dry and don't feel sticky to a gloved hand.

I've modified my container to use the syringe mo measure now. I'll document the next ones.

I baked at 375 degrees F at about 7 minutes. Then I sized them to .358, then coated and baked again.

I couldn't recall if I'd smash tested those, so I did another one.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n73/2wheelduke/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140403_230510_273_zpsde04f59f.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/2wheelduke/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140403_230510_273_zpsde04f59f.jpg.html)

[Ausglock]

7 minutes at that temp is not long enough.
The coating has not had time to fully activate.
Use less and increase your time to 10 minutes.

[Gremlin460]

You are getting close Duke...
On the subject of drying , this is my take on it and I am sure Joe or Ausglock will step in if I have this wrong.
There is 2 types of Dry, there is the dry to the touch after you have coated, and then there is the chemically base dry when the epoxy and the catalyst have stopped the reaction with each other.
In the first case of touch dry, the surface has dried and skinned over, but the chemical reaction is still going on deeper in the coat.
Now in the second case of "Dry" the coating has finished doing what it does all the way through.

It is my understanding that if you were to bake some time between these two "Dry" periods, then the coating is hardend before it forms a good bond on the lead. Trev and I live in a country where if we leave a spanner(wrench) laying outside in the sun for awhile, you cant pick it up bare handed. This is perfect weather for drying coating.
Even so, I try to dry for at least 3 hours in the full sun, or overnight if possible, you cant dry too LONG but you can dry for too short a time period.
My phone has a timer set for 10.5 mins and that's how long I bake for, Ausglock and Joe both recommended that time to me and so far it has not let me down.
Stick with 7mls in a container of 200/250 9mm and thickness should not be a issue.

[HI-TEK]

You are getting close Duke...
On the subject of drying , this is my take on it and I am sure Joe or Ausglock will step in if I have this wrong.
There is 2 types of Dry, there is the dry to the touch after you have coated, and then there is the chemically base dry when the epoxy and the catalyst have stopped the reaction with each other.
In the first case of touch dry, the surface has dried and skinned over, but the chemical reaction is still going on deeper in the coat.
Now in the second case of "Dry" the coating has finished doing what it does all the way through.

It is my understanding that if you were to bake some time between these two "Dry" periods, then the coating is hardend before it forms a good bond on the lead. Trev and I live in a country where if we leave a spanner(wrench) laying outside in the sun for awhile, you cant pick it up bare handed. This is perfect weather for drying coating.
Even so, I try to dry for at least 3 hours in the full sun, or overnight if possible, you cant dry too LONG but you can dry for too short a time period.
My phone has a timer set for 10.5 mins and that's how long I bake for, Ausglock and Joe both recommended that time to me and so far it has not let me down.
Stick with 7mls in a container of 200/250 9mm and thickness should not be a issue.

Gremilin,
For the Hi-Tek, you really need to forget about comparing them to conventional two pack catalysed coatings such as Epoxy or Poly-Esters etc.

(As a footnote, I just wanted to add a little extra information.
With newly produced powdered coatings, all ingredients are included.
The product is quite stable, despite having included the catalyst as well. Until product is mixed into solvent, coated dried and baked, it should stay reasonably stable.
I have had coated and non heat cured projectiles sitting around for weeks, and when baked, the dry coating performed as required. You cant do that with any other material such as the other two pack systems.)

After coating with the Hi-Tek, the drying is simply to remove solvents and trapped moisture that is absorbed by Acetone or MEK.

During this "drying", if coatings are applied too thick, a dry skin can form which feels dry to the touch.
Reality is, that below, there are trapped traces of solvent & moisture.
These then evaporate at much reduced rates as the "skin" formation takes place, (especially with thickly applied coats) then the total drying is slower.
If you think that coating feels dry to the touch, ( especially with thick coats) it can mislead to thinking that it is ready to cook.
When these partially dried coatings are placed into the oven, the trace vapours/solvent/water can immediately turn into super heated steam.
This steam formation prevents bonding during cure, and baked surfaces look like millions of little bubbles and or craters. (Orange Peel effect).
That is why I always try to suggest that first coat is as thin as possible, and with that first coat, the "looks" (cosmetic appearance) is not important.

With regards to coating and bonding, the cure and bonding in fact takes place when coating & alloy starts to reach the 180C level.
If you have surper heated steam below coating and alloy, bonding will not be successful, or at least reduced adhesion.

Something to consider, the coating will cure, if heated for many hours without catalyst, but using catalyst makes cooking process much faster, mainly for practical purposes especially in high volume production...

Try to remember, that heat is what sets the coating, and catalyst simply is there to speed up that process at cure temperatures.
If you look normal two pack systems, when catalyst is added, they set at various speeds without heat.
The catalysed Hi-Tek, in total contrast, remains useful for days, if not weeks in some circumstances.
The triggering factor is HEAT.

[kweidner]

I loaded some to test fire today.

I went and test fired the last one into water jugs.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n73/2wheelduke/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140403_193506_987_zps0b93e39e.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/2wheelduke/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140403_193506_987_zps0b93e39e.jpg.html)

Looks like the rifling cuts down to bare lead. I'll have to shoot more and see if this is an issue or not.

2 wheel Duke, when I look at your loaded round, I see the coating is scraped to the lead on the seating operation. Look at the left side of the boolit. I think that's your problem. Most conventional dies INCLUDING Dillon will close the flare too much on seating unless you lap them out a .001 or .002. It scrapes the boolit on seating. Do you see the lead on crimp?

If you don't have dedicated seating die, adjust die so there is no unflaring in the seating step by backing die way out and let seating stem do the work then crimp in seperate step. Lapping of crimping die is not a good thing. The dillon set up is a bit different with a dedicated die for seating and one for final forming/crimp.

When running single stage, I set crimp, lock ring, then put two thick flat washers under die for seating operation. readjust seating depth with flat washers in place. Seat all bullets, take washers off and loosen seating stem way out and then crimp. Keep dummy round in die box to set seating depth for future as your crimp is locked in. It's a two second setup. Next time you need to seat, put washers in, bottom die out, adjust stem to the dummy and voila.

[Ausglock]

Yep. the coating has been scraped off during the seating process. Lee Pro 1000 press is notorious for this when it seats and crimps at the same station. Dillon presses don't have this problem, provided you use enough belling at the powder station.

[btroj]

Ok Hi-Tek, you said the first coat should be thin.

Just did around 3 K 125 gr 9mm bullets and used about 30 ml of a 5/1/7 mix. It is barely a stain on the bearing surface of the bullets. It is copper red and after baking it appears to be a thicker coating. Baking the first coat is always an eye opener, there is way more coating on the bullets than you think.

I have learned that a thin first coat works best. I also tend to let them dry at least overnight. I pushed it a few times and got bubbles and what not. Time is your friend in drying.

[Love Life]

Let dry overnight, thin 1st coat, stop touching the oven knob, 10 minutes for 38's and 9mm, 11:30 for 40's, and 12:20 for 45's. Easy day.

[kweidner]

If your bullets don't slightly stick to drying pans, it isn't dry enough. When chemicals have completley dried, they will want to slightly stick to the screens in my experience. Just brush your hand across to roll them and all is well. Also after baking and cooled, if they don't chink when tumbled together, almost a ceramic sound, the curing was not enough time.

[2wheelDuke]

My next batch will be with a lighter first coat and longer bake times. We'll see how it does.

[farmerjim]

btroj "Just did around 3 K 125 gr 9mm bullets and used about 30 ml of a 5/1/7 mix."

That is thin, 1 ml per 100. I have been using 2 ml per 100.
How thick is your second coat?

[btroj]

However thick I put it on? I dump some bullets in a bucket, give em a squirt, and tumble. I will probably go a bit heavier on coat two but I am trying to see what the minimum is and then work up from there. I already know what too much is, trust me!

No measuring here. I have considered it but decided that what I'm doing works so why mess with it?

[Ausglock]

I don't measure. I dribble.
1 second dribble out of a pop top juice bottle per 250 9mm bullets.
Same for 200 45 bullets.

The metallic coatings (red/copper, gold, etc etc) seem to be more forgiving to variations in coating baking than the non metallics.
The Kryptonite Green is by far the best. you can coat thick or thin, bake 10 or 12, dry for 10 minutes or 10 days and it works every time.

The Zombie Green (424/1035) is also very forgiving.

[Love Life]

I don't measure either when applying the coating. A couple handfuls of bullets in the coffee can, a squirt, tumble swirl, dump, bake, repeat, go shoot.

[btroj]

Only part I'm picky about is cook time and temp. Temp is easy, it never gets changed. Time is based on bullet weight. 10 min for 9 mm, 12 for stuff over 250 gr, 11 for 200 swc for 45 ACP.

[kweidner]

2WheelDuke, any success? Keep us posted. I do measure my coating. I'm a little OCD anyway. Mine ends up thicker as I run 3 coats for purely cosmetic reasons. Rounds sell much better when they look great. My personal fodder only gets 2 coats. I also weigh my bullets and do x number of boolits per batch per x number of teaspoons. My working system is just a bit thicker than most but I get full coverage and no problems. The trick is consistent heat and extended dry time.

[btroj]

http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p733/Btroj/imagejpg1_zps78fb780b.jpg (http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/Btroj/media/imagejpg1_zps78fb780b.jpg.html)

Here is my idea of a light coat after one baking.

[HI-TEK]

http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p733/Btroj/imagejpg1_zps78fb780b.jpg (http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/Btroj/media/imagejpg1_zps78fb780b.jpg.html)

Here is my idea of a light coat after one baking.

They look great. That is mostly what one very thin coat should look like, with majority of effective surfaces covered..
I assume that smash test also was Ok with this first coat?
With a second thin coat, you should get much better and more even finish, level smooth and glossy.
You really have optimised your coating process.
Well done.

[btroj]

Haven't done a smash test. I have it down to a point with coating amount and bake time that I don't do any testing. No smashing or wipng.

Color me cocky? I figure if it works then run with it. This stuff really isn't difficult to use, it takes some common sense and an ability to keep things consistent.

Now to get my hands on some of that hi-Tek powder......

[HI-TEK]

Haven't done a smash test. I have it down to a point with coating amount and bake time that I don't do any testing. No smashing or wipng.

Color me cocky? I figure if it works then run with it. This stuff really isn't difficult to use, it takes some common sense and an ability to keep things consistent.

Now to get my hands on some of that hi-Tek powder......

I bet now, you can cover many projectiles and get great results with minimum coating requirements.

With powdered systems, you and many others are now in the very long list of people that are wanting.
You should contact Bayou or Gateway, (depends on which one is closer to you) and put your name down on their list with your wish colour.

It now seems that the commercial powder production could begin in earnest in about 6-8 weeks. Then, when made, it has to be shipped to the US.

Now, it is just the pesky details, of what order/s will be placed by US people....I suppose, it will depend on how much products are being pre-ordered by people, then, this will govern order volumes.

[gunoil]

i just dribble like ausglock, Sometimes l do 3 coats. Really good lookin bullets. I do 8 mins only. I thin stain my bullets, no coating here!

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zps276b8d02.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zps2409a819.jpg

[Ausglock]

Just finished coating and baking 7000 9mm pills.

I have a heap of Powder here to throw out in preperation for the delivery of the new Powder samples.

I should save them, But i have no room. It makes great weed killer.

[Relsom]

Just finished coating and baking 7000 9mm pills.

I have a heap of Powder here to throw out in preperation for the delivery of the new Powder samples.

I should save them, But i have no room. It makes great weed killer.


I'll pay shipping to US on that excess powdered HT if there's enough to make it worth it. Hate to see it go to waste on some poor defenseless weeds.

[btroj]

That stuff must be nasty, it kills Aussie weeds! Dang

[Love Life]

Here is a test of a no lube groove bullet mould made by Hardline Industries: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?237352-Hardline-Industries-45-230-RN-Mould-Review

[Stephen Cohen]

With all that dribbling Ausglock and gunoil are doing, I think they need to visit a doctor and have it seen too. Sorry could not help myself.

[btroj]

Tamsulosin will help with that. Well, unless that dribble needs some penicillin.......

[Ausglock]

You are a funny lot of Buggers.

Just got a call from HI-TEK JOE.
I am in the poo for stirring you lot up.
I'm not allowed to send it to anyone and I can't use it as weed killer. So it will have to stay in storage along with all the liquid coating samples. I need a special locker to store all this stuff.
Might have to get an Auto caster and use it all up and sell coated bullets.

[Love Life]

I really don't take the smash test as the gospel. I had some that failed the smash test, I didn't feel like remelting them, loaded them up, shot them, and they worked.