Powder Coating Boolits

[20gauge]

That's what I thought. I have 2000 cast, sized and lubed (blue lube in grove only). How do I get that out?

[Russel Nash]

You could try boiling them

[sbeatty1983]

I didnt have much luck with boiling them, they still have a greasy residue on them. You might try boiling them to get the biggest part of the lube off then tumbling in a bucket with some sort of paint thinner.

[bangerjim]

I have degreased hundreds and hundreds of boolits. Best way I have found is to get the largest ziplok storage container you can find, put several inches of "greasy guys" in it (not too deep) and cover with laq thinner. Put the lid on, swish it around vigorously to make sure all are coated and covered and let it set overnight. Then next day, swish vigorously for several minutes again. All the grease should be dissolved. Pour the thinner off and save for another batch. Rinse the newly cleaned boolits in fresh thinner a couple times, saving all to repeat the process.

The 1st batch if thinner will get contaminate very rapidly, so do not use more than a couple three times. Throw it out and use the rinse thinner for the initial!

That cleans all the goo out and they are now good and clean for PC'ing.

Works perfectly for me! Every time.

bangerjim

[sbeatty1983]

thanks, bangerjim ill have to try that on some cast .45s I bought a few years ago.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have degreased hundreds and hundreds of boolits. Best way I have found is to get the largest ziplok storage container you can find, put several inches of "greasy guys" in it (not too deep) and cover with laq thinner. Put the lid on, swish it around vigorously to make sure all are coated and covered and let it set overnight. Then next day, swish vigorously for several minutes again. All the grease should be dissolved. Pour the thinner off and save for another batch. Rinse the newly cleaned boolits in fresh thinner a couple times, saving all to repeat the process.

The 1st batch if thinner will get contaminate very rapidly, so do not use more than a couple three times. Throw it out and use the rinse thinner for the initial!

That cleans all the goo out and they are now good and clean for PC'ing.

Works perfectly for me! Every time.

bangerjim

This is how I do it as well except I use a plastic jar I can seal.

[bangerjim]

One more step I have used on really dirty/greasey slugs. After the last rinse in clean laq thinner, I pour in very hot water with Simple Green in it to cut any final remains of a grease film. That stuff is an amazing degreaser.

Rinse in plain hot water.

Dry 'em in the sun and have at the PC'ing!

bangerjim

[popper]

81535
Today's test 40.8 gr H335, LC 308, CCI LRP, 165 GC, 0.310, 60/30 Roto antimony(4% SB)/pure, HF red, cooked @400 for 30 min & WD, 1 wk ago. Don't know how the scope got off, got the procedure backwards so took 3 shots to get on target. 6 in 1", last 4 drifted. The upper is aluminum so I'm guessing me, heat or dirty bore. This is first string, others didn't get any better.

[Maximumbob54]

Popper, that's outstanding compared to the results I got last time. I guess I need to swallow my pride and just try adding gas checks to mine.

[popper]

That is a max jacket load of H335. A slower powder may do better but I'm half convinced it's the PC residue causing the problem. The other groups were low left, typical of all my cast rifle shooting. Haven't looked at the bore yet. It should have been the 10 shot string Gear is looking for & I missed the clean cold bore test too (Gear - I haven't consistently noticed the first shot error but I haven't gotten cold weather yet). Darn. I do want to try sans GC at a much lower load. I did try H-T in the 30-30 using the 308 CBs and the results were about the same, GC slightly better.

[bangerjim]

Maybe it's Maybelline...............or Septemberbelline.........but I finally loaded 'em.

I have always said I thought the HF ES gun-coated red slugs in a 45LC look like lipstick. I have 150 of these 'lil red dudes I did several months ago B4 I standardized on matte black that need to find their way down range, so I loaded up 50 of them with 5.6gn of American Select and they are ready to fly.

81553

I still think they look like tubes of lip gloss!

bangerjim

[popper]

Think they will get through security?

[Maximumbob54]

I need to go back and do the exact same load I did before but try them with gas checks. Then I will at least know if it's because I'm skipping checks or if the finish is to blame. I know that same load works with the lubed lead and a check but it may be too many variables to just coat them and run no checks and assume it's going to work.

[Rick45Colt]

I have been looking at all of these different methods for achieving the same end. Powder Coat, HiTek, etc. I did find a link to a post on tngunowners.com from Dolomite_supafly and it seemed really well put together explaining the Acetone Method so I copied his post. Duly noted here that I am not plagiarizing or infringing his or anyone else's copyright I just thought it should be shared! So I made a powerpoint presentation! I wanted to post a note over at tngunowners.com but was unable to join after several attempts. Can I post a copy here? Does anyone know Dolomite_supafly?

Rick45Colt

[bstone5]

Dolomite_supafly

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?200280-Some-ramblings-and-questions-about-bullet-coating&highlight=Dolomite_supafly


He is here with a lot of Posts.

[Echd]

Finally got the 429303-like mold I've been looking for forever- it's actually the NOE 199gr spirepoint with a PB, so it's not a 429303 at all, but the idea is the same! PC'd up they actually weigh in at 201gr, +/- about 0.6gr.

http://i.imgur.com/2i1W0SY.jpg

Sure did cast some cool bullets. Those points were fairly sharp!

http://i.imgur.com/kK2FFao.jpg

But I need to find load data for these. If nothing other than just needing to see how much spare wood, water jugs, or junk they can go through (since these are supposedly excellent penetrators and fairly accurate...) I'd like to find some "hotter rodded" info for a .44 mag with a 200gr lead slug. Guess I can just use jacketed data though (I'll reduce and work up though, I think!)

Most 200gr lead .44 loads in my books are popcorn-fart level loads though. Nothing wrong with that, but I gotta see how hard and accurate I can push these just in the name of science.

The jacketed stuff though- Hodgdon has a 27.5gr max load of 296 pushing a 200gr at 1800 fps! I bet that'll be a trip.

http://i.imgur.com/Ac40gTq.jpg

Not sure whether to bother coating bases. I haven't had much leading if any out of my pretty stout loads 240s and 310s.

This was my first NOE mold and I like it a lot. Really well made and solid. Once it started throwing good ones after about 10 casts, it didn't stop.

[popper]

OK, just call me stupid. When i was sizing for this last loading, I noticed some going through with no force. That means I got some of the 1/1 alloy, previous sized mixed in with the 2/1 alloy that hadn't been sized. I did 20 rnds of the 'new', had about 50 left from the 1/1 alloy that I shot later, much larger groups. Makes sense. I'll load another 40 next week after some serious sorting. If correct, I should get 20 shot string in 1" @ 100. If that theory holds I can go to Houston and try qual for 200. Crossing my fingers. I use gas and then acetone to clean off old lube. I may try to get better powder from Russel, the TGIC free type.
Yup, bore is spotless so now I get to do some sorting.

[xacex]

Popper, was that in the 308? W/D, 2/1 alloy with H/F powder coat? Sounds like your doing better than I am with the rifle loads already. I haven't tried W/Ding the powder coated boolits yet, but I assume I can just re-heat to 400, hold for a little bit, and dump in cold water. I did put some JPW on some boolits last week, and the P/C was not affected. Might help to add just a coating of it for a friction modifier. Powder coated, and waxed for a smooth ride.

[popper]

xacex yup, 308 AR carbine. Should be able to do 1/2 hr @ 400 then dump in cold water, in a BIG bucket. I am using a hospital plastic bed pan, maybe 6 qt. The water gets warm when you dump 400 165 gr into it. I ice it down, wait for the ice to melt. My first batch were coated & cooked, reheated later & WD. No problem. My mistake was getting @ 25 1/1 mixed in with the 400 2/1 cast. Darn. I do add the appropriate amount of shot and a little copper to the Roto Antimony lead/pure. I think I'll size the whole bunch, toss out the ones that go too easily. Then I'll load 40 & try again w/o cleaning the bore. Need to see where that first cold shot goes. If it goes OK I'll do some more and save for winter testing.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Rick45Colt contacted me over at http://www.tngunowners.com asking for permission to use my information.

This is what I told him at 7:20PM on 9/12/2013:

Do not use my pictures or my words.

I have zero issue with people seeing it in a post I have made but when third parties start spreading it I have no control over what is and is not being attributed to me. I do not want someone to try to sue me because some altered my words and passed them off as mine.

Hope you understand. Keep it to yourself or if you want link my post but please do not send it out.
He read my response at 7:27AM on 9/13/2013.

I am not worried about taking responsibility for what I have posted or said. I do have a problem when someone may, down the road, make changes to my instructions that cause problems then I get blamed. I know it is a bit far fetched but anyone can sue for anything. Doesn't mean they will win but it will still cost me to defend myself.

Again, I have zero issue taking responsibility for what I post but I must also try to prevent misinformation from being spread as though it is mine.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Finally got the 429303-like mold I've been looking for forever- it's actually the NOE 199gr spirepoint with a PB, so it's not a 429303 at all, but the idea is the same! PC'd up they actually weigh in at 201gr, +/- about 0.6gr.

http://i.imgur.com/2i1W0SY.jpg

Sure did cast some cool bullets. Those points were fairly sharp!

http://i.imgur.com/kK2FFao.jpg

But I need to find load data for these. If nothing other than just needing to see how much spare wood, water jugs, or junk they can go through (since these are supposedly excellent penetrators and fairly accurate...) I'd like to find some "hotter rodded" info for a .44 mag with a 200gr lead slug. Guess I can just use jacketed data though (I'll reduce and work up though, I think!)

Most 200gr lead .44 loads in my books are popcorn-fart level loads though. Nothing wrong with that, but I gotta see how hard and accurate I can push these just in the name of science.

The jacketed stuff though- Hodgdon has a 27.5gr max load of 296 pushing a 200gr at 1800 fps! I bet that'll be a trip.

http://i.imgur.com/Ac40gTq.jpg

Not sure whether to bother coating bases. I haven't had much leading if any out of my pretty stout loads 240s and 310s.

This was my first NOE mold and I like it a lot. Really well made and solid. Once it started throwing good ones after about 10 casts, it didn't stop.

Those are beautiful. I am starting to regret selling my 44 Mag but I am on the hunt for a 45 LC barrel. The guy I bought my 300 Whisper barrel from has a 50-70 barrel for sale for a Contender. He said he shoots 50 BMG pulls at 600 fps with it. That would be a fun little setup, especially if you were shooting tracers or APIT or spotter rounds.

My 300 Whisper Contender barrel shoots great. I have finally found a 198 grain NOE pointy mold. It will be what I shoot 99% of the time now. It works great in everything I have tried it in. It also coats well using the tumble method or using a powder coating gun when I hang them using wire.

Is that the flat black HF powder you used on them? I have some gloss black from PBTP but flat black looks great.

[Echd]

Yessir, plain flat black from HF.

I made the dumb realization after getting ready to load these that I didn't have an appropriate seating stem for my dies... LOL

So I called up Lyman and they are sending out a 303L type seater... only cost 4 bucks, and I hope it gets here soon!

I only have contender barrels in .30-30 and .44 mag. I wouldn't mind some more, for sure... a .223 or similar barrel would be a lot of fun. Maybe a 7TCU. I want something a little zippier and with low recoil to shoot with irons- all my barrels have scopes or dot sights on them. I bet a pcoated 7TCU could shoot like a house afire.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I was looking real hard for a 22 Jet that is a bullet barrel. That way I can duplicate 22lr for use with my suppressor. They seem to be a bit pricey or at least more than I want to spend on one. You could also load them up pretty hot. They have more case capacity than a 22 Hornet, even the improved version, and the best part is you can use 357 Magnum brass to make brass.

[Garyshome]

Just cast up a couple of different kinds of Boolits. Wayyyy to many to PC. This Boolit making stuff takes up soo much time, I don't have any time to drink BEER!

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________
The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

[xacex]

Just cast up a couple of different kinds of Boolits. Wayyyy to many to PC. This Boolit making stuff takes up soo much time, I don't have any time to drink BEER!


Hmm. I don't have that problem. I think it is time for you to upgrade your molds if they don't fill buckets fast. :kidding:

I usually will spend half an afternoon casting, and powder-coating to get 1000 hollow-points ready for loading. Got it down to a science now...Well, except I don't have any time to shoot.

[popper]

Shot the AR @ 100 again this morning, same load as before. Had ~ 60 rnds of PCd last week, didn't clean it, not even a dry patch. first shot was 1" right, did 4 shot 1" group 1" left, 1/2" up. After that it was scattergun. Btroj, I tried the undersized, don't bother - scattergun 8" spread. Double vision was back, even through the scope. I was doing slow fire but still think heat is affecting accuracy. May have to put some bullets through it to verify.
Edit: Nope, leading. A little over-run leading at the muzzle, just sparkles on the patches.
82021
Probably due to the 0.309 I put through it vs the normal 0.310.
Conclusion from shooting in rifle and pistol, it works well. Maybe there is a better coating? I think the HF has a fps/pressure limit but it is definitely higher than the H-T. Accuracy doesn't go bad until the bore is really leaded/dirty. If I were a hunter I'd use it without worry even with low Sb alloy. I'm going to drop down to reasonable target loads and practice with 200yd in mind.

[ProfGAB101]

I was thinking that maybe this process might lend it self to swaged bullets.

I can envision using an adjustable core mold to make cores that are near spot on and a one shot die that makes a TC/HP with a bleed port (squirt hole). Now just wash and PC on a pin type fixture.

If needed you could also use the plain base soda can gas checks.

Just thinkin.

[joemoe]

Just wondering if anyone still using this as their primary lubing method? I still PC all mine with my HF gun.

[Smoke4320]

Absolutely .. all calibers I shoot are now Pc'ed with HF gun .. and that’s about 12 calibers
90% are GC bullets and am not using a GC...just coat nose down, size, wait 2 weeks + for lead to fully harden, load and shoot.
up to over 1900 FPS with a 308 and a 6.5x 55 using COWW and 2% Hi speed billet and getting excellent accuracy

[popper]

ProfGAB101 - close to what I do, but I put the pin in the cast with a pin nailer.

[bangerjim]

Just wondering if anyone still using this as their primary lubing method? I still PC all mine with my HF gun.

+100 (!) on PC. I now coat ALL my slugs (223/9/30/38/40/45) with HF matte black. I do NOT use any kind of old fashioned greasy messy lube anymore. Can now spend my money on other "gun stuff" rather than buying an expensive lubri-matic and the sticks to feed it! I have 6 bottles of Lee Alox (burnt grease/mule shot) I probably will give to a local buddy that still insists on that way. Absolutely no need for it now!

PC rules! (That's powder coating.........not politically correct, which I totally despise and am definitely not!)

bangerjim :guntootsmiley:

[KYShooter73]

I've been casting since March....several thousand rounds. I have never lubed a boolit and don't intend to.

[500MAG]

Just wondering if anyone still using this as their primary lubing method? I still PC all mine with my HF gun.

I'm considering selling my Lyman 450. Can't imagine myself going back to it.

[MacFan]

Just wondering if anyone still using this as their primary lubing method? I still PC all mine with my HF gun.

I shoot 45acp at this time in 3 different guns, I only use powder coat on my bullets.

[xacex]

I have got the accuracy of my pistol boolits where I am happy with just ES powder coating from now on. I will never use a traditional lube on them again. I do not have rifle boolits with PC nailed yet, so I cant make the same statement with those. I think the trick to rifle and PC is hard alloy and water dropping.

[Maximumbob54]

I Piglet coat all my handgun boolits with HF matte black in lacquer thinner. It's too easy and too cheap. At first I thought it was slow having to wait on the oven to bake until I started doing other things instead of just puttering around. I can even be coating boolits while I watch a movie. Ding says the oven, pause goes the movie, tumble coat the boolits, pour into the tray, reset the timer, head back and press the play button. Too easy. I will never miss the mindless crank for pressure, set the boolit down, fudge it to get it even, ease the nose over, press it down in, lube gets under the base, wipe it off, pull it out, wipe out the die, pick up another boolit... too much of a pain in the butt.

[joemoe]

Glad to hear its working out for you guys. This forum have been quiet, so I thought people just moved on to other methods. PC have worked out great for me, I use it for all my pistol caliber. Here's a two part question I have for you guys. I've been sizing mine thru Lee Sizing dies before and after PC'ing them, do you guys size them at all? If you do, is it before or after PC'ing?

[Maximumbob54]

I PC everything as soon as it's done cooling from casting. The sizing dies don't rub off the coating. If you find it does then the coating is going to fail even worse in your bore and you need to figure what you are doing wrong.

[Smoke4320]

I size only after coating ..
as an example only .. I took a RCBS 457-300 --98/2 Coww /Tin and powdercoated ended up 459 to 460.. waited a week and sized down to 452 .. I lost NO coating in the sizing (sprayed a little hornady one shot on them to aid the big sizing difference) and 50 projectiles shot just fine out of a Rossi 45 Long colt

[bangerjim]

Glad to here its working out for you guys. This forum have been quiet, so I thought people just moved on to other methods. PC have worked out great for me, I use it for all my pistol caliber. Here's a two part question I have for you guys. I've been sizing mine thru Lee Sizing dies before and after PC'ing them, do you guys size them at all? If you do, is it before or after PC'ing?

We are too busy casting, coating, (NOT lubing!), loading, and shooting to be on here! Lots-o-fun. At least we are not spending needless time cleaning our barrels anymore. Or mixing up a witches brew concoction of greasy lubes.

Yes.......... the process IS successful and, from what I have read, many are switching to it and dumping the greasy lube olde school methods.

banger

[joemoe]

I PC everything as soon as it's done cooling from casting. The sizing dies don't rub off the coating. If you find it does then the coating is going to fail even worse in your bore and you need to figure what you are doing wrong.

Nope never had a coat rub off. I will just try sizing after PC'ing ... should save some time.

[popper]

83851
41 gr. H4895, 26 rnds, from the AR 308. 2400+ fps, SD ~ 50 fps. Had a little trouble with the front bag, 1st 10 were sort of low and horiz. spread. second 16 were better. Didn't clean it from last outing but did put a protector in place of the FH. Yes, the one in the bull is from a jerk on the line.

[xacex]

Popper that looks better than the last set. I would be happy with that if I could get the same result in a 300 blackout with the 311410. I wish I could find some H4895, I have been out for almost a year. Red dot has been my friend during all of this.

[WiederladerTV]

I tried powder coating my bullets too and it works great but hell it took a lot of time. Maybe it's because my equipment I use to coate them...how Long does it take to coat 100 bullets this way popper?

[Smoke4320]

with a Harbor freight PC gun it takes about 2 minutes to coat the whatever baking time you use

me I preheat bare bullets for 10 minutes at 300... coat and cure for another 10 minutes at 300

[500MAG]

Glad to hear its working out for you guys. This forum have been quiet, so I thought people just moved on to other methods. PC have worked out great for me, I use it for all my pistol caliber. Here's a two part question I have for you guys. I've been sizing mine thru Lee Sizing dies before and after PC'ing them, do you guys size them at all? If you do, is it before or after PC'ing?
I do it before and after. I wasn't but some of the other guys suggest it's best for them. Takes no time at all on the after.

[popper]

xacex Yea, I had been using 335 but am about out so I switched. I have to stack 3 or 4 bags to keep the mag off the bench. Finally put the HG on a sloping bag and another against the left side of the HG so I could get comfortable elevation. That was the second tighter group. I know I shaved a couple when loading, those are the 'flyers'. I'll try some tweaking but with the mil brass it's pretty close to top end load. Now on to the 24" bbl.
WiederladerTV My coating rig takes longer than other OPs but for the performance it's worth it. I'm going to try the piglet method for plinkers in 30/30.

[Beagle333]

I'm going to try the piglet method for plinkers in 30/30.

I'm very interested in giving this a whirl as well. :coffeecom

[xacex]

I tried the pigglet method on several boolits from .225, to .50 and was unimpressed. The ES PC ease and appearance have spoiled me. My focus is on this method, and jigs to make it faster by doing more boolits at once. With hollowpoint the jigs are easy, and I can do 125 at a time in 20 minutes.

[bangerjim]

I tried the pigglet method on several boolits from .225, to .50 and was unimpressed. The ES PC ease and appearance have spoiled me. My focus is on this method, and jigs to make it faster by doing more boolits at once. With hollowpoint the jigs are easy, and I can do 125 at a time in 20 minutes.

Somewhere, buried on this massive (!) site, is a post by me several months ago of a very simple jig I use to coat GC'd 223's & 30's. Since they will not set up..... this works. I can't find it.............. so here goes:

Use Al roof flashing. Cut pieces to fit your oven racks. Use the approx. size HF gasket punch (in a set they have) to punch thru. Lay on medium hard wood (I use alder) and whack the punch. It forms a nice clean hole with a little flange on the back. Check the size with your GC'd boolit base. If too small, open up VERY slightly with a hand reamer until it fits tight. Lay out and punch all holes as you wish. Cover with non-stick Al foil and press the holes thru with your finger. Push your slugs in. Spray. Bake. Pop 'em out. Size and put on GC's.

Simple, easy, and very cost-effective! When you start getting a "flange" of coating at the base after a couple batches (3-4), use a new sheet of foil. If the holes get stretched out, tap them LIGHTLY on a piece of SOFT wood with a dowel to shrink a bit!

Perrrrrrty simple!


bangerjim

[fastglock]

Somewhere, buried on this massive (!) site, is a post by me several months ago of a very simple jig I use to coat GC'd 223's & 30's. Since they will not set up..... this works. I can't find it.............. so here goes:

Use Al roof flashing. Cut pieces to fit your oven racks. Use the approx. size HF gasket punch (in a set they have) to punch thru. Lay on medium hard wood (I use alder) and whack the punch. It forms a nice clean hole with a little flange on the back. Check the size with your GC'd boolit base. If too small, open up VERY slightly with a hand reamer until it fits tight. Lay out and punch all holes as you wish. Cover with non-stick Al foil and press the holes thru with your finger. Push your slugs in. Spray. Bake. Pop 'em out. Size and put on GC's.

Simple, easy, and very cost-effective! When you start getting a "flange" of coating at the base after a couple batches (3-4), use a new sheet of foil. If the holes get stretched out, tap them LIGHTLY on a piece of SOFT wood with a dowel to shrink a bit!

Perrrrrrty simple!


bangerjim


Bangerjim, does this jig leave the base or the nose left naked ? If coats the sides and base then Im gonna try it. You got a pic of the boolits in the jig by any chance? Thanks

[xacex]

Bangerjim, post your setup in the jig thread so we can see it out of this massive black-hole of powder coat information. I really think there should be a new subsection for coatings.

[Rangefinder]

I almost hate to say it, but you PC gun guys are really over-complicating things... My tumbler is my new best friend, AND I have total coverage (no bare bases or points, no fussy spray racks to muss over, ect...) :D

83968

Just a little FYI--it's a single coat, and the darker color you see is NOT lead peaking through--it's the touch of graphite I add at the end for a little extra "slick". One coat does the whole job.

[fastglock]

I almost hate to say it, but you PC gun guys are really over-complicating things... My tumbler is my new best friend, AND I have total coverage (no bare bases or points, no fussy spray racks to muss over, ect...) :D

83968

Just a little FYI--it's a single coat, and the darker color you see is NOT lead peaking through--it's the touch of graphite I add at the end for a little extra "slick". One coat does the whole job.


Oookay .... details please if you don't mind.

boolits tumbled with powder paint in a media tumbler (the one we use to clean our brass) ?
If so for how long? TGIC , EPOXY, HYBRID powder? Then baked on non stick aluminum foil? If handle by fingers after coating/before baking does some of the power rub off? Please do tell. .... I said please twice [smilie=s:

[Smoke4320]

Yes I would love to know your method of using a tumbler to powdercoat and if it will hold up to rifle velocities
anything that will cut down on coating time and still do a good job I am all for it
Please give us step by step instructions PLEASE :) :)

[bangerjim]

Bangerjim, does this jig leave the base or the nose left naked ? If coats the sides and base then Im gonna try it. You got a pic of the boolits in the jig by any chance? Thanks

Just cleaned out my iPhone of old pix!

It leaves the GC'd base clean so you can pop the check on and then process it as you normally would. Works great. Sides, nose, grooves are totally coated...........only the recessed GC base is bare.

And the jig holds the slugs firmly in place so you do not have to dance around and juggle it to keep from knocking one over and playing dominoes!

banger

[a.squibload]

[QUOTE=Rangefinder;2425111]I almost hate to say it, but you PC gun guys are really over-complicating things... My tumbler is my new best friend, AND I have total coverage (no bare bases or points, no fussy spray racks to muss over, ect...) /QUOTE]

Yes details please?

I finally tried it using the "soapy hands" and "shake & bake"
methods, baked in a $10 Goodwill toaster oven. After a test
run I was able to get a blobby looking full coverage. They
look icky but sized OK. Coated some 215 44s, the grooves
and gas check step pretty much disappeared.
Can't believe they will have consistent aerodynamics.
Looks like I'm in the market for a HF spraygun, found a
coupon already. Unless Rangefinder's tumble method
proves worthy!

[bangerjim]

[QUOTE=Rangefinder;2425111]I almost hate to say it, but you PC gun guys are really over-complicating things... My tumbler is my new best friend, AND I have total coverage (no bare bases or points, no fussy spray racks to muss over, ect...) /QUOTE]

Yes details please?

I finally tries it using the "soapy hands" and "shake & bake"
methods, baked in a $10 Goodwill toaster oven. After a test
run I was able to get a blobby looking full coverage. They
look icky but sized OK. Coated some 215 44s, the grooves
and gas check step pretty much disappeared.
Can't believe they will have consistent aerodynamics.
Looks like I'm in the market for a HF spraygun, found a
coupon already. Unless Rangefinder's tumble method
proves worthy!

Another convert! Welcome to the world of ES gun PCing!

You will have great success.

bangerjim

[xacex]

I almost hate to say it, but you PC gun guys are really over-complicating things... My tumbler is my new best friend, AND I have total coverage (no bare bases or points, no fussy spray racks to muss over, ect...) :D





Spill the beans!

[Rangefinder]

All right guys, I'll do my best to get something worthy of posting for a play-by-play. But I gotta warn you in advance--it's my daughter's birthday this weekend, so time's a little short till the first of the week. No offense, but even an Obama pinata-party wouldn't be enough to compete with her attention for the next couple days. But I'll do what I can. ;)

[xacex]

Obama pinata-party

Thanks for the idea! Should it be fulled with government cheese, or hot dogs?

[Beagle333]

358432 HPs. Piglet method.... 17:3 pure/coww, 1% tin. Double coated/baked, then sized. Not a scratch and they're as slippery as an eel! 8-) I shot several 358063's last weekend at 1300+ and they were perfect! I think this is gonna let me shoot stick-on weights, range scrap (or maybe even pure) at a nice mushroom growing speed. But I gotta give that tumbler method a try. 'Looks like Rangefinder has found something for those of us without an ES gun. :D
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/tb2005_zpsc7739a5b.jpg



(p.s. This thread needs more pics!)

[Beagle333]

I'm kinda gettin' fond of the Piglet method.... it doesn't waste much on the inside of the grooves and nose, but look how nice and slick the bands are. These are sized and ready for whatever. I didn't get the tumbler out yet... it's football Saturday and I'm pressed for time. :wink:
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/keith011_zps00192d96.jpg

And just for testing, I put some PB checks on some of em to try out.
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/keith012_zpsb0f6ffd4.jpg

[StratsMan]

This drives me crazy!!!

We know what they're SUPPOSED to look like, but when I tried Piglet Powder Coating (PPC), my lube grooves filled with slurry and they stuck to the screen when I baked them...

The real question I have (and I think I speak for others) is EXACTLY how did you overcome the problems?? What do your jigs look like?? How do you keep the slurry out of the grooves??? yada-yada-yada... We know you're proud of the finished product, but with no sequence details they are just pretty pictures of your boolits... I want to know where I'm failing in my process vis-a-vis your process....

<<I gotta stop reading this thread; my failures are making me crazy...>>

[Beagle333]

Well, I just followed the directions I found on here. I didn't have problems, or use jigs. I just pour the boolits in a butter tub, cover em with lacquer thinner, sprinkle a 1.3CC Lee dipper full of powder over em, shake vigorously, pour thinner back into can, pour boolits onto hardware mesh in front of fan (I'm using plastic mesh, since that's what I found out in the yard), and standing them up on non-stick foil on the baking pan - using some needle nose pliers, then bake at 400 in the toaster oven (Black and Decker) for 20 mins. Repeat. That's how I'm getting mine.

Now, I did have to put my oven on 475 to get it to actually reach 400. (using my casting thermometer to tell temperature)


(all of this was printed on here before, earlier.... I just used the techniques as described):coffeecom:Fire:

just so I don't get credit where credit isn't due.

[prickett]

This drives me crazy!!!

We know what they're SUPPOSED to look like, but when I tried Piglet Powder Coating (PPC), my lube grooves filled with slurry and they stuck to the screen when I baked them...

The real question I have (and I think I speak for others) is EXACTLY how did you overcome the problems?? What do your jigs look like?? How do you keep the slurry out of the grooves??? yada-yada-yada... We know you're proud of the finished product, but with no sequence details they are just pretty pictures of your boolits... I want to know where I'm failing in my process vis-a-vis your process....

<<I gotta stop reading this thread; my failures are making me crazy...>>

Just guessing, but I don't think you are using enough LT/Acetone. If you did, I wouldn't think there would be any slurry, only a very thin "stain". One thing to realize/remember - it is the pigment that clumps and/or doesn't cover evenly (powder coat = pigment + paint). So, even if the coating doesn't appear to cover all the lead, odds are the paint component is covering it.

Thinking further, a second reason could be that the solution is mixed well enough. Do you have clumps? If so, continue to stir vigorously and/or add LT/acetone until you don't.

As to what the jigs look like... Piglet doesn't use jigs. Simply tumble to coat, then dump on hardware mesh to dry, then cook with.

[fastglock]

This drives me crazy!!!

We know what they're SUPPOSED to look like, but when I tried Piglet Powder Coating (PPC), my lube grooves filled with slurry and they stuck to the screen when I baked them...

The real question I have (and I think I speak for others) is EXACTLY how did you overcome the problems?? What do your jigs look like?? How do you keep the slurry out of the grooves??? yada-yada-yada... We know you're proud of the finished product, but with no sequence details they are just pretty pictures of your boolits... I want to know where I'm failing in my process vis-a-vis your process....

<<I gotta stop reading this thread; my failures are making me crazy...>>


I feel your pain LOL !!!!! I actually gave up on my third try with piglet method. Then when back a week later to try again. A lot of variables to consider: thinner amount, thinner dry time, thinner brand, tumbling speed, lay on mesh speed, "x" amount of boolits "X" amount of powder. I usually make the first coat thin (ex: 1/2 teaspoon powder per 100 9mm), and the second coat gets a full teaspoon. I think of the 1st coat primer.

[bangerjim]

I feel your pain LOL !!!!! I actually gave up on my third try with piglet method. Then when back a week later to try again. A lot of variables to consider: thinner amount, thinner dry time, thinner brand, tumbling speed, lay on mesh speed, "x" amount of boolits "X" amount of powder. I usually make the first coat thin (ex: 1/2 teaspoon powder per 100 9mm), and the second coat gets a full teaspoon. I think of the 1st coat primer.

Guys (and gals).................ELIMINATE the variables!!!!!!!!!!!!

STOP the guess work and experimentation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spend more time shooting and less time fiddling around with liquid coatings!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dump the liquid slopping methods and apply the powder like it was designed and formulated to be.
Electrostatic gun application.

ES PC = 1 coat + 1 bake = perfect boolits EVERY SINGLE TIME! No lumps....no leading.....no lube.

Depending on how big your oven is and how many trays you build, you can do around 250 slugs at at time.....in around 20-30 minutes TOTAL.....including lay-out, coating , and baking.

Why use anything else? The HF gun is a bargain at $59 -20% coupon. Darn near everybody as some kind of an air compressor, from a small airbrush to a 2 lunger shop unit. That is all you need besides the gun.

There are a ton of us on here that have tried various methods ( I tried ALL of them) and have realized the ONLY logical and functional way to successfully do it is with the HF (or equal) gun.

good luck!

banger

......and NO, I do not work for HF! This is just one of the very few products they make that actually works the way it should over time.

[Beagle333]

Pictures. More pictures. I have seen a few scattered pics (maybe a month ago) of some lipstick smooth boolits. If you fellers are makin' em by the thousands...... surely you got a pic or two?

Yes, I am saving up for the ES gun, but tease me a little along the way! ;):lovebooli

[blueeyephil]

StratsMan

I've had good results with the piglet method. I haven't done a lot of it, but after a few attempts I got it to work well. I just don't want to go with an ES gun for now myself. Anyway, I bought two different powders from powder by the pound. A silver that doesn't work very well and a translucent blue Mirror Blue that has. I haven't tried the Harbour Freight because there isn't one close to where I live and I had read that the other powders might be better. I was having to order anyway, so that's the way I went. I bought 2 oz of the two colors. But man the shipping is steep. Like 13.00 for 4 oz of powder. If I were to buy right now I would go with a black I think instead of the Mirror Blue and for sure not the silver. It has tiny glitter in it.

I went with lacqure thinner instead of acetone. Again some say it works better. At first I used too much and it would take way too long like more than 5 minutes to evaporate. I got down to putting maybe 2 tablespoons at most now. I don't measure so that is a guess. I'm using a cool whip container and when it's tilted 45 degrees there is probably 2 inches of liquid side to side. Then I put in a scoop or maybe two of powder. I was using a pretty small Lee powder scoop from a pistol loading set. Don't recall off the top of my head. Sprinkle the power on the thinner. Put a few bullets in and start swirling to mix the powder. Should take long. But I will say that I could never get the silver to fully disolve however the Mirror Blue always does. Once it's mixed pretty good I add about 100 9mm or 357 bullets and tumble and swirl. At first the liquid just goes over and runs off. But as the thinner evaporates all of the sudden it starts coating. I swirl and tumble until the feel and sound changes and then within 10-15 seconds I pour the bullets onto a screen/non stick foil/parchment paper. But I think the screen is probably best. I shake them a bit to see if seperate them. I then pour a small amt of thinner in the container and with a heavy duty blue paper towel, clean my container. I let the bullets air dry until they can be handled. Of course I have my small oven heating up by then. I've started using the non stick foil on a pan and I use plastic bullet holders, fill them up nose down. Do a couple of them. Put the tray upside down over them, flip them over and I have nice rows of bullets ready to bake. I bought an oven themometer and found mine was running a little cool. So I make sure it's up to 400 degrees. I slide the tray in and set my timer for 15 minutes. The powder says 10 min at 400 degrees but your material has to get up to temp. I've left some 20 minutes because I wasn't sure they had enough bake time. When I take them out of the oven, I let them sit just a few minutes and then start tipping them over and rolling them around. I do that because they will stick to the foil just a bit especially after it's been used a few times. Anyway, I keep them moving a bit and they cool enough so they will not stick together. I use leather gloves instead of pliers so I don't mess the coating up while it's still hot. I have been doing two coatings, making sure they were cool before I do the second coat. If you have clumpy bullets I expect that you have one or two thinks going on. Too much powder for your number of bullets or you are not pouring them out fast enough. You go from too wet to too dry in 30 seconds. At least that is what it seams like. But that might depend on the thinner you are using too. My thinner is marked a medium dry thinner.

By the way, I've had a couple of batches early on that didn't look good before I put them in the oven. I just put some thinner in the container, put the bullets back in and swirled and tumbled again without adding more power. The thinner disloved the powder and I got a redo on it. If your problem is your waiting too long to dump them out. Give that a try. Good luck. This method does work. I'll not say it the best but it has worked for me. I've been shooting the Hi-Tech coated bullets for a couple of years from Bayou. But I had some smaller batches I wanted to do and the piglet PC is working for me.

[500MAG]

Like Banger said, can't imagine doing it any other way than the HF gun. They just come out perfect.

[AZBrian]

Here is my latest: NOE .432 4C w/HP (245gr)

Loaded 44 Mag:
84150

First pic is as-cast, Second is sized w/gas check, Third is after PC:
84151

A bunch ready to load:
84152

[blueeyephil]

Nice looking. What powder and color are you using?

[Beagle333]

:goodpost: Now that's what I'm talkin' about! Nice pictures!

[500MAG]

Those look fantastic. Great choice of color.

[orisolo]

I just did my first attempt.
I use hf gun and hf mat black. It looks good. I did one coat for the top and another coat for the bottom.
This will go in 300 blackout without gc I'll let you know how they shoot.

The ugly ones to the right are the "soap" method which didn't work good.
The flat in the middle is a well hammered boolit showing the powder dosnt give...

84173

[jmort]

The blue bullet must be ES PC. Either that, or I want to know how AZBrian did it. That is nice, nice, nice. I like the HF matte black as well.

[fastglock]

Here is my latest: NOE .432 4C w/HP (245gr)

Loaded 44 Mag:
84150

First pic is as-cast, Second is sized w/gas check, Third is after PC:
84151

A bunch ready to load:
84152


OMFG !!!! THEY LOOK SO PRETTY !!!


CANDY ?

I wouldn't even shoot them. Nice work !!

[fastglock]

Like Banger said, can't imagine doing it any other way than the HF gun. They just come out perfect.

True.....

I use ES PC on all my rifle boolits, BUT piglet method for my pistol boolits. Piglet method, for now , is doing the job: higher volume, faster process, no smoke, and no leading. I compete in practical shooting sport and I shoot average 1200rds a month and there is no way I'm gonna ES with the current ES production rate. Some of us here is still in search of the holy grail method, that is why we are all still here on this massive thread.

[el34]

I decided to start with HF ES PC based on bangerjim's enthusiasm. I bought the red, white, and yellow with the gun. They turned out ok from the getgo. I had trouble finding a way to keep them from sticking, even the non-stick foil stuck leaving a flange.

I made a jig with 6-32 flathead screws and nylon spacers to hopefully prevent the fillet from forming between boolit and screwhead and it worked. I got excited and ordered candy colors from PowderBuyThePound.com. My pics-

84165 84166

84167 84168

84169 84241

84170 84171 84172

The 356 120TC on the left are a nice candy teal but the pic didn't capture it very well. I have candy raspberry (380's) and gloss black (357's) yet to try.

[orisolo]

I wonder if anyone tried this powder?
Sound like it could be the good of both worlds (Acrylic and Epoxy).

"H-Series Hybrid powders perform well over cold rolled steel, castings, hot rolled steel and aluminum substrates suitably pretreated. They may be applied by corona or tribo charged electrostatic powder guns.
It is possible to achieve film builds of 1 - 1.5 mils, but 2 - 3 mils is the norm."

http://www.prismpowder.com/hybrid

[a.squibload]

Well I was holding out for "cheap but good" but DANG!
AZBrian, my first thought was Hot Rod! As in Race Car!
(Can you do candy apple red with glitter?)

You substituted an anodized aluminum boolit there, right?
:mrgreen:

[bangerjim]

But you have to log in with your info to get prices! Sounds like the filthy ObamaScare website!

if they cannot publish on-line prices, something is rotten there?

banger

[a.squibload]

el34, questions:
(didn't mean to short you, those look really good too!)

The nylon holds up to the oven OK? How hot do you bake 'em?

Looks like the boolits overlap the screwheads so no powder gets on
the screws, correct? Obviously they don't stick. Slick setup!

(I may have missed a few kudos to other PCers, been racing through
these PC threads getting all excited, I may never swage again!)

[AZBrian]

I am using a color called 'Lollipop Blue'. It is meant to be an overcoat and has a high gloss. I have found that anything with a high gloss seems to work well for bullets. The satin or flat colors I have tried have more texture to them.


Nice looking. What powder and color are you using?

[el34]

el34, questions:
(didn't mean to short you, those look really good too!)

The nylon holds up to the oven OK? How hot do you bake 'em?

Looks like the boolits overlap the screwheads so no powder gets on
the screws, correct? Obviously they don't stick. Slick setup!

(I may have missed a few kudos to other PCers, been racing through
these PC threads getting all excited, I may never swage again!)

I was trying to think of a way to keep the boolits from sticking to whatever they were sitting on. For proper ES application they need to be on something conductive, connected to the ground clip of the PC high voltage box. That means the charged powder will be attracted to both the boolit base and what it's sitting on, forming a fillet. This stuff is tough, the reason for using it, but at least for me it makes popping the cooled boolits off a bit difficult.

The flathead screwhead is smaller than the boolit base and I thought the steep angle underneath would help. It does, it's the best method I've found so far, but most of them need considerable force to pop them loose. Currently I use a 4" piece of small diameter pcv to tilt them off.

The nylon was to help insulate the screw shaft but now I'm not sure it really contributes anything. I'm about to rebuild my fixture with short FH screws and no spacers.

Google told me nylon melts at 415F, I cook at 400. The first couple of uses the spacers shrunk a bit and I occasionally re-tighten the nuts underneath. It all works but I know somebody has a better method.

[AZBrian]

I have tried it with added glitter, actually, but it looked a bit over-the-top (if it doesn't already look that way :) ). A candy red is very nice. But I like that blue and brass combo a lot. There is also a candy black that is nice. I bought a PC setup a few years back, along with a bunch of powder, to coat motorcycle parts. I only used it a couple times for that and the setup was sitting around. Then I came across threads on PCing boolits. I was very happy to have everything I needed! I went through a phase that I imagine others do... start casting and make them as fast as you can and in large quantity. Then get to the point where you have 'a comfortable reserve' and start concentrating on making the perfect boolit (long way to go here, I am sure). At least that is how I worked at it. PC is a good coating and it doesn't hurt to make them look nice too, right? Now I have all these darn plain boolits around I need to shoot up.


Well I was holding out for "cheap but good" but DANG!
AZBrian, my first thought was Hot Rod! As in Race Car!
(Can you do candy apple red with glitter?)

You substituted an anodized aluminum boolit there, right?
:mrgreen:

[Echd]

I decided to start with HF ES PC based on bangerjim's enthusiasm. I bought the red, white, and yellow with the gun. They turned out ok from the getgo. I had trouble finding a way to keep them from sticking, even the non-stick foil stuck leaving a flange.

I made a jig with 6-32 flathead screws and nylon spacers to hopefully prevent the fillet from forming between boolit and screwhead and it worked. I got excited and ordered candy colors from PowderBuyThePound.com. My pics-

84165 84166

84167 84168

84169 84241

84170 84171 84172

The 356 120TC on the left are a nice candy teal but the pic didn't capture it very well. I have candy raspberry (380's) and gloss black (357's) yet to try.

Those are beautiful, but I have a really hard time spending 4-5x the cost for PBTP powders over HF.

With HF, the prices are pretty much equal to normal lubing. At that price its pretty silly!

[AZBrian]

Google told me nylon melts at 415F, I cook at 400. The first couple of uses the spacers shrunk a bit and I occasionally re-tighten the nuts underneath. It all works but I know somebody has a better method.

I like your setup and the Nylon sleeve is a good idea. Silicone plugs are used for plugging bolt holes, etc..., with powder coating. There are also silicone sleeves that are used to go over bolt shafts. Silicone is heat resistant to over 500F and the powder doesn't adhere to it. I bought a big kit a couple years back that had an assortment of sizes. I am sure the Nylon spacers are cheaper though.

I am going to steal your idea and make something like this too (thx!). I find that when putting the boolits on Al foil, I don't get as thick of a PC film toward the base of the boolit. I don't mind whatever fillet I may get and the boolits don't stick too much to the Al foil for me but I do like the idea of getting better coverage at the base.

[el34]

Those are beautiful, but I have a really hard time spending 4-5x the cost for PBTP powders over HF.

With HF, the prices are pretty much equal to normal lubing. At that price its pretty silly!

Yep, all my reloading gear is red but occasionally I splurge just for the fun of it.
"All things in moderation, including moderation".


I like your setup and the Nylon sleeve is a good idea. Silicone plugs are used for plugging bolt holes, etc..., with powder coating. There are also silicone sleeves that are used to go over bolt shafts. Silicone is heat resistant to over 500F and the powder doesn't adhere to it. I bought a big kit a couple years back that had an assortment of sizes. I am sure the Nylon spacers are cheaper though.

I am going to steal your idea and make something like this too (thx!). I find that when putting the boolits on Al foil, I don't get as thick of a PC film toward the base of the boolit. I don't mind whatever fillet I may get and the boolits don't stick too much to the Al foil for me but I do like the idea of getting better coverage at the base.

Thanks for the kudos but I can't say that my rig is all that great. However, I don't know how much better it can be, that dang fillet glues the boolits to whatever they sit on. I've imagined a grouping of 3 sharp needlepoints replacing the screw. They would support the boolit as well, provide conductivity, probably create only a small fillet, but the idea seems impractical. I'll just shut up and keep doing what I'm doing I guess.

[bangerjim]

I decided to start with HF ES PC based on bangerjim's enthusiasm. I bought the red, white, and yellow with the gun. They turned out ok from the getgo. I had trouble finding a way to keep them from sticking, even the non-stick foil stuck leaving a flange.

I made a jig with 6-32 flathead screws and nylon spacers to hopefully prevent the fillet from forming between boolit and screwhead and it worked. I got excited and ordered candy colors from PowderBuyThePound.com. My pics-

84165 84166

84167 84168

84169 84241

84170 84171 84172

The 356 120TC on the left are a nice candy teal but the pic didn't capture it very well. I have candy raspberry (380's) and gloss black (357's) yet to try.


Great looking slugs!

I posted some pix several months ago after rigging up a jig just like that but got away from it as the boolits fall off the screws way too easy. I only have to turn around from my spray location to my oven, but the slightest bump or jar going into the oven cause the dreaded domino effect! After several tries and re-coats and several long strings of not-to-nice words, I went back back to the non-stick foil. I only get "flanges" on the bases after using the foil 3-4 times. The I just throw it away and get a new piece.

Good work!

banger

[el34]

Thanks Jim. I tried the non-stick foil almost the day you posted about it. It was better than the non-non-stick but I wound up with foil GC's and worn out fingernails scraping the flange off. I know sizing would whack it but I wanted a way to avoid it altogether.

I only move a foot or so to get them in the oven and haven't had any fall off except a few with poorly-cut sprues. Now when I feel a boolit teetertotter I toss it in the remelt tub.

[Smoke4320]

I have tried it with added glitter, actually, but it looked a bit over-the-top (if it doesn't already look that way :) ). A candy red is very nice. But I like that blue and brass combo a lot. There is also a candy black that is nice. I bought a PC setup a few years back, along with a bunch of powder, to coat motorcycle parts. I only used it a couple times for that and the setup was sitting around. Then I came across threads on PCing boolits. I was very happy to have everything I needed! I went through a phase that I imagine others do... start casting and make them as fast as you can and in large quantity. Then get to the point where you have 'a comfortable reserve' and start concentrating on making the perfect boolit (long way to go here, I am sure). At least that is how I worked at it. PC is a good coating and it doesn't hurt to make them look nice too, right? Now I have all these darn plain boolits around I need to shoot up.

Q-tip coated with Pam cooking spray and coat screwhead .. still conductive and no stick .. It works great for me

[KYShooter73]

Has anyone tried spraying a pan with Pam before placing your boolits base down and spraying? I know you would have to be careful not to get any on the surface you are coating. If no one has tried this I may run a little experiment this evening.

[fcvan]

My plain based boolits have been coated and cooked on a piece of sheet metal and that works pretty good. They are placed onto the sheet metal by putting them into a bullet tray from an ammo box to space them evenly. I plan to use the non stick foil next time to see how that goes as the sheet metal gets pretty thick after a few thousand boolits coated. For my 30 cal gas checked boolits I glued gas checks to the sheet metal so I could snap the boolits in, coat, and then snap out. On the 22 cal I drilled a piece of aluminum so the gas check shank slips into the hole. That works great.

In other news, I went to the range over the weekend. I was shooting .223 through an AR I just built. It is new and tight so the rounds weren't consistently cycling as they do through my Mini 14 or my brother's AR. (Lyman 225-415, PCd and gas checked, 14 grains of 4227) After about 50 rounds the rifle started fully ejecting, and another 50 they started fully cycling.

After I got the rifle sighted in with a box of factory, I switched to my HF Black Beauties. Grouping was as good as the factory rounds. I was also shooting up some old test loads with the same boolit. Some were copper electroplated (I had to try that out. Works good but labor intensive) and some were lubed with Lyman molybdenum disulphide lube. Those were slicker and so pressure was down or something as they were the same 14 grain load but wouldn't cycle the Mini reliably. The PCd boolits also seem to be as slick but they were starting to cycle as the rifle was breaking in. Anyway, good day at the range (forgot the chronograph) and PC is the way to go for boolits!

[el34]

Q-tip coated with Pam cooking spray and coat screwhead .. still conductive and no stick .. It works great for me

Brilliant. It's good to have smart people in the house.

[Beagle333]

For my 30 cal gas checked boolits I glued gas checks to the sheet metal so I could snap the boolits in, coat, and then snap out.
Genius! I was wondering if there were other ways. :grin:

Now, for rifle boolits..... my noses are already at .301, so I don't need to coat them. How are some of you PC'ing and leaving both the gas check and the nose clean?

[popper]

Uhg, cold and rainy here - but we NEED it. I decided to PC (RD PB & w/o GC). Started @ 9 & finished @ 12:30. I pin nailed ~ 150 in the base, washed in acetone, put a hook in the nail to hang over the oven rack rods, sprayed & baked. ~15 I'll do again, but very little shading. Pulled the pins from good ones with NN pliers & wire cutter/crimper. Actually the most even/best looking I've done in >1000 CBs. Most of my time was charging the compressor, setting up a new 'catcher', washing & drying, refilling the PC gun, etc. I normally coat over the GC (works for 1" @ 100 in 308) but I might try putting GC on a few of these to see how checking over PC works. Now to stuff some 2400 under them and wait till the rain stops.

[a.squibload]

Still haven't heard Rangefinder's tumbler details, hope he didn't get
beat up at the kid's birthday party! (I want cake NOW!)

I found a HF coupon, almost talked myself into getting a sprayer.

Looks like any method needs nonstick foil to keep the equipment
from getting all covered up in PC, UNLESS the PC is self limited,
it's not conductive is it (after baking)?
I used liquid soap to apply the PC, the bases were coated,
stuck to the screen, wasn't too bad to get loose but the bases
were all ragged looking, inconsistent.

Got me thinking about how to spotweld straight pins to screwheads...

[bangerjim]

Still haven't heard Rangefinder's tumbler details, hope he didn't get
beat up at the kid's birthday party! (I want cake NOW!)

I found a HF coupon, almost talked myself into getting a sprayer.

Looks like any method needs nonstick foil to keep the equipment
from getting all covered up in PC, UNLESS the PC is self limited,
it's not conductive is it (after baking)?
I used liquid soap to apply the PC, the bases were coated,
stuck to the screen, wasn't too bad to get loose but the bases
were all ragged looking, inconsistent.

Got me thinking about how to spotweld straight pins to screwheads...

NS Al foil minimizes the boolits sticking to the foil. It does NOT prevent powder from sticking to the foil itself. And yes......it DOES build up coat on coat on coat!! After 4 uses, my foil coating is thick and will actually crack when I remove it and wad it up for the dumper.

Remember............you are talking about a high tension static charge here, not a standard electrical circuit. The PC forms a good electrical insulation, but is still very conductive to static electricity, so coats will build up. It is NOT self-limited.

The HF powders are so inexpensive, why bother trying to recover any of it!!!!!!!

banger

[Rangefinder]

Sorry guys--little girl came down with strep (had to cancel the party even--still had our own little party though). But it's kept me securely out of the shop lately. She's cleared for daycare starting tomorrow again finally and back to her wild and crazy self, so I should be able to squeeze in the necessary shop time with the camera over the next couple days.

[willie_pete]

Glad she is feeling better; strep throat is very painful.

WP

[a.squibload]

Peppermint ice cream is hitting the shelves again,
maybe that would help (get well soon).

[Rangefinder]

Allright guys, the Monkey took a good nap today, so I had about an hour to kill uninterrupted. As requested, here's the Rangefinder Method.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?216599-Rangefinder-s-PC-Tumbler-Method

[MJohnston]

When you all get incomplete coverage like pictured, some better, some worse, what do you do with them. I have been running them through the lubrisizer and lubing them. Curious if others do the same.
84578

[Beagle333]

I snap a plain-base gas check on em and shoot em anyway. :bigsmyl2:

[bangerjim]

I rarely have any slugs that partial coat using the ES gun method. When I do, I just throw them back in the pot for the next melt!

I sure do not waste any time lubing them with greasy lube, which might, over time, react with the PC and soften it in the case......a very bad situation for your barrel.


banger

[Smoke4320]

tried Rangefinders method last night ..
I was rushed so did not get a good true evaluation of the procedure .. It did work... just not nice smooth coverage like ES spraying .. again this was my first attempt and in no way I am saying it will not... just need more time to fine tune the steps ..
Bullets did not smear when poured onto the tin foil or when standing up to bake.. Bases did not stick and were mostly covered when pealing from foil after cooling .. all in all a plus
it does look like it would speed thing up a lot ..
I tried 2 different calibers at the same time as well ....35/200's and 45/405's they all covered nearly 100% top bottom and all sides
also I tried it with HF red which may have contributed to the minor clumps
tonight I will try powder by the pound as it is supposed to do better in the piglet method as well

[atygrit]

This is probably a stupid question, but has anyone tried baking on a teflon cookie sheet?

[JASON4X4]

I cast and pc my 1st boolits this week. They came out great will shoot them next week.

[Rangefinder]

This is probably a stupid question, but has anyone tried baking on a teflon cookie sheet?

Are you kidding? My wife would beat me senseless if she knew I use her toaster over to bake my bullets. If I got caught using her teflon cookie sheets I'd need to wear a diaper and a drool bib when she was done with me... :D

One of these days I plan to pick one up to try--just haven't bothered yet since the foil works so well.

[Beagle333]

I don't know about the other methods, but with the Rangefinder method, I have done about a 2 gallon bucket of boolits in my little Black & Decker oven (about 120 at a time) and am still using the first square of non-stick foil that I started with. :cool:

[Rangefinder]

I don't know about the other methods, but with the Rangefinder method, I have done about a 2 gallon bucket of boolits in my little Black & Decker oven (about 120 at a time) and am still using the first square of non-stick foil that I started with. :cool:

Man, are you Scottish?? Only us "clansmen" are so frugal as that! :D You know how copper wire was invented? Two Scotsmen found a penny at the same time! :D

[Smoke4320]

"Guns have only two real enemies; Rust and Politicians..."
but empty cylinders cause loneliness

[bangerjim]

This is probably a stupid question, but has anyone tried baking on a teflon cookie sheet?

Like said.......my wife would kill me if I used her VERY expensive TFE/silicon baking sheets.

I would think they would not work that well, as the powder on the sheet would come off easily and stick to the bases of the boolits, making a real mess getting rid of the flash. You start getting it after about 3-4 NS foil uses and that means time to get a new sheet out. HEY......the stuff is cheap! Change is ever few loads! At 12" per rack, that roll of foil will last a long time.

But if you can beg/borrow/steal one of those silicon/TFE sheets to try, let us know.

banger

[a.squibload]

When you all get incomplete coverage like pictured, some better, some worse, what do you do with them. I have been running them through the lubrisizer and lubing them. Curious if others do the same.
84578

Are you kidding? That boolit looks great compared to mine
(first try with soap).

I picked up lacquer thinner & NS foil, gonna try it.
Too bad I got the HF red but will try anyway.
Hope it works in a rock tumbler.

[popper]

I tried the HF red with Rangefinder's trick, but in a jug as I don't have a tumbler. Coating was good and even (I tumbled until almost dry - not sticky). After 30 min extra drying, I cooked, came out bubbly and clumpy so I must not have dried long enough. These were RD311-178 FB. I'll try again later but now I have 20# of brass to process.

[a.squibload]

I did the same in a rotary tumbler made from a rotisserie motor and
a salsa bottle. It works! Not as pretty as sprayed on but fairly even
coating, had 4 to throw back in the pot due to lack of PC on the lands.
Did over 100 boolits 3 calibers in the batch. Takes a while for the PC
to get distributed among the boolits, tumbled for an hour.
I wore a rubber glove to stand the boolits up, didn't smear the coating
at all. Lit the lacquer thinner, the flames got pretty close to the rafters!
Qualifies as a preheat, I baked 'em 15 min, probably too long.

NS foil is good to use, most were easy to peel off,
some had a flash of PC at the base.
PC added about .002 to the diameters. They sized fine.
Couple had drips or lumps at the base which caused them
to tip sideways in the sizer die & wreck 'em.

I'm using the LAM luber-sizer anyway (but not lubing)
so PC just adds a few steps, HOWEVER the PC should allow
faster velocity ( 9mm, .357, etc. ) without a lot of fine tuning
that lubed lead would require. Boolit fit is still important but
push-through sizers are less expensive (I still need a .40sizer die).
On the other hand I won't need more swage dies!

Conclusion: I like PC Coating.
Might post a pic & short vid later.

PS thanks Rangefinder, the Scot in me tries to keep me away from HF!

[bangerjim]

"Did over 100 boolits 3 calibers in the batch. Takes a while for the PC to get distributed among the boolits, tumbled for an hour."


a.squibload...........That is way too long to coat boolits! I can setup, one spray, and one bake ~250 boolits in under 30 minutes! And they are 100% perfect....every single one!

Better look into the HF gun application method.
bangerjim

[el34]

Hey there bangerjim, got any pics of your rig? It would be helpful to see how you set them up and what they look like just after you break them loose. I keep fantasizing a way to bake them and just pour them off the rig.

[a.squibload]

Bangerjim, yeah, everything seems to be leading me toward a sprayer.
I was afraid of the PC dust all over the place, but couldn't be as bad
as the 4 foot flames from burning off the thinner!
Didn't get a shot of that but here are a couple of fuzzy pics:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-meQRXN-U1QU/UmXm2QyeeMI/AAAAAAAAAmM/XOQCJpPRfEY/w640-h480-no/2013-10-21_+002+%2528Small%2529.jpg

The worst ones:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-GxlEIyquSsY/UmXm2hZ2fRI/AAAAAAAAAmQ/Te9cE59lHuQ/w640-h480-no/2013-10-21_+003+%2528Small%2529.jpg

A cheap tumbler:
http://youtu.be/cDoVjlnklKA
Rangefinder, you just THOUGHT you were cheap!
(I have a real tumbler but it's a rock polisher, not a vibratory style. )

[bangerjim]

Hey there bangerjim, got any pics of your rig? It would be helpful to see how you set them up and what they look like just after you break them loose. I keep fantasizing a way to bake them and just pour them off the rig.


No jig. Just a piece of Al roof flash wrapped around the original oven rack and covered with NS foil.

I just space them out to allow about 1" between them. I do an 'X" row and a "Y" row and then just fill in the gird. I straighten the rows with a ruler and pop em into the oven. Nice thing...on the following coats the positions are marked!

The 1st bake, the boolits literally FALL off the sheet!!!!!!! No flash. The 2nd time some stick a bit and maybe one will tear a bit of foil. Only light if any flash that the sizer knocks off with no problems. 3rd time more do stick and pull some foil off with a moderate flash. Can you say free AL gas checks! HA.....ha! Time to get a new sheet of foil!!!!!!

I coat all my 9/38/40/45's that way.

banger

[bangerjim]

Bangerjim, yeah, everything seems to be leading me toward a sprayer.
I was afraid of the PC dust all over the place, but couldn't be as bad
as the 4 foot flames from burning off the thinner!
Didn't get a shot of that but here are a couple of fuzzy pics:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-meQRXN-U1QU/UmXm2QyeeMI/AAAAAAAAAmM/XOQCJpPRfEY/w640-h480-no/2013-10-21_+002+%2528Small%2529.jpg

The worst ones:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-GxlEIyquSsY/UmXm2hZ2fRI/AAAAAAAAAmQ/Te9cE59lHuQ/w640-h480-no/2013-10-21_+003+%2528Small%2529.jpg

A cheap tumbler:

http://youtu.be/cDoVjlnklKA
Rangefinder, you just THOUGHT you were cheap!

Edit: looks like Google really butchers videos, tried posting on Youtube for the first time, hope it works OK.

When/if I get time to get out to the shop later today (day job!) I will set up and take a pic of some of my sprayed boolits for you to see. I will NOT have to pick and choose the best for the photo! All are perfect every time.

banger.

[popper]

squib - looks like my first attempt, too much powder. I assume you have not baked those yet. By the time I got a good smooth coating (a lot of HF powder) it was too thick and sagged, I did not flash those, just thought they were dry and baked them. Got all kinds of bumps & warts. I'll try the flashing, outdoors, and see if it gives a skim coat.

[a.squibload]

Actually the pic is after baking. They do look kinda thick, had some
flash at the base and a few had blobs at the base that were hard
to remove. Bangerjim is pushin' me to get a sprayer, maybe he'll
loan me fitty bucks! :-)

[xacex]

Here you go. This will save you 25% off the HF P/C gun.

43280812

Ordered green glow in the dark P/C to try out, but it has not shown up on my doorstep yet. it should work like those cold tracers that stick the the bottom of a boolit. Might make it easier to find my boolits in the berm after dark too.

[bangerjim]

Here you go. This will save you 25% off the HF P/C gun.

43280812

Ordered green glow in the dark P/C to try out, but it has not shown up on my doorstep yet. it should work like those cold tracers that stick the the bottom of a boolit. Might make it easier to find my boolits in the berm after dark too.

I get, on the average, 3-4 of those 20% coupons and at least 2 of the 25% coupons EVERY WEEK in the mail and in the newspaper ad sections.

That number probably only works if you mail order. I have 4 HF stores within 10 miles of my house and office. One of them is only .9 miles away.....OMG! Don't know where you are in CO, but if close to Denver, Bolder, C S, or Pueblo, you should have plenty of stores locally!

a.squibload.......I only loan money to family. All others pay 180% interest........up front! [smilie=p:

"In God we trust......all others pay cash"!

banger

[popper]

Tried again with the HF white, same results. Actually couldn't get them to flash so I used a map torch to cure - lots of bubbles! Curing time was about 10 seconds total, waving the torch over all 15 CBs. Took about 1 min. to cool. Got to go try this with the H-T coating, see if it will keep the BHN up.
Xacex - you get any accuracy from the 300 BKO yet? I got great groups with H335 in 308 but not running them sub.

[500MAG]

Bangerjim, yeah, everything seems to be leading me toward a sprayer.
I was afraid of the PC dust all over the place, but couldn't be as bad
as the 4 foot flames from burning off the thinner!

I don't know about Bangerjim but I don't have a problem with PC dust all over the place. I have a small table I use and spray while walking around the table. Hardly any amount of overspray beyond the table.

[xacex]

Tried again with the HF white, same results. Actually couldn't get them to flash so I used a map torch to cure - lots of bubbles! Curing time was about 10 seconds total, waving the torch over all 15 CBs. Took about 1 min. to cool. Got to go try this with the H-T coating, see if it will keep the BHN up.
Xacex - you get any accuracy from the 300 BKO yet? I got great groups with H335 in 308 but not running them sub.

I hadn't played with it because I had it set for my deer load this year, and didn't want to make any adjustments. Got my buck with the 300 BLK pistol over a week ago so I guess I can get back to it any time now. Still have not got any 1680 for sub work so I am stuck working with h110, lil gun, and the 311410 along with the lee 312-155.I have a 308 120 grain soup-can I should try too. The 312-155 shows promise. It was shooting better than jacketed out to 50, but I had not pushed it out to 100 yet. I am working on the Beowulf right now trying to get that dialed for elk. i plan on using a PC 335, or 440 grain boolit for it this year. My results so far were 6" at 100 with the PC 335, but I have not water quenched them so that might make the difference. The 440 seems to shoot better, but my God! What a honkin boolit. Talk about rainbow, and I only need it to 150. So many things to do, so little time. Sent Frozone a pm to see if he could help me get the Beowulf load dialed. time will tell. Shot over 60 last week till I started to get a slight flinch then I put it up.

[popper]

Someone stated you shouldn't PC over the checks. Works fine, just make sure the base is dry and no solvent on it else heat will pop the checks off.
Xaces probably need slower powder. 2400 under checked & HT alloy wouldn't hold 6" @ 50.

[bangerjim]

I don't know about Bangerjim but I don't have a problem with PC dust all over the place. I have a small table I use and spray while walking around the table. Hardly any amount of overspray beyond the table.

I do my spraying out in front of my back shop. I put a towel over the Workmate and spary on it. It is also where I clamp my casting pots to cast. The dust is not a problem at all. I did 1,500 slugs a couple days ago and when I shook off the towel, there was mabe a 1/2 teaspoon of powder on there! No big whoop. There is no trace of powder on the cushons on the glide swing where I set in front of the Workmate.

If you have your pressure right, flow set right, and the correct nozzle and "fluidized bed" effect going on in the jar, (and you remember to hook up the ground wire and step on the switch!!!!!) most of the powder will be electrostatically attracted to the "target" and stick to the slugs and the Al foil and not be flying around the area! The powder stream coming out should be a light dusting and not a HUGE flow.

Good luck!

banger

[bangerjim]

Someone stated you shouldn't PC over the checks. Works fine, just make sure the base is dry and no solvent on it else heat will pop the checks off.
Xaces probably need slower powder. 2400 under checked & HT alloy wouldn't hold 6" @ 50.

Reason I don't PC GC's is: since they are ever so slightly larger than the boolit nominal size and are "molded" onto he base by the sizer die, everyone I have tried had the PC scraped off to some degree.

And my matte black 30's really look "cool" with those shiny copper checks on the ends!

banger

[a.squibload]

Xacex: thanks, I get those flyers, found a 20% coupon. Last time I was in the store
they had a sprayer but I didn't have the coupon. If I order I'll use that number.
When you're mining boolits at night you might hear a noise, like
HEY WHAT'RE YOU DOIN' OUT THERE?
I had thought about dayglo orange, we spray 4wd equipment to make it less likely
we'll leave it on the ground.

Bangerjim: thanks for the offer, now I know how you can afford the toys (loan shark!).
:>)
I use a workmate too, for just about everything except woodwork. Just handy.
As far as excess powder, guess I saw the word "spray" and expected something
like a fire hose. Might break down and get the sprayer just to watch it work.
(I like high voltage.)

Well this PC stuff is great BUT
I just happened to see the Johnson's Paste Wax (JPW) thread had a new entry,
forgot all about that stuff, guys claiming 2000 fps in rifles with no leading.
Homely Depot has it for 6-something. Doesn't look as cool though.

Decisions, decisions...

edit: PS: I have a bunch of vintage 44 gas checks from the '70s, if I get this
PC thing lookin' good I might have to check some, just for pics you know.

[joemoe]

HF PC gun seems to be the way to go. After building a jig for pistol HP boolits, I haven't looked back since. My bullet are evenly cover except for the HP cavity. I also build a small PC'ing cart using the airbrush fume hood below to cut down on the mess, so the Ms. don't bother me :p ... works great. I shoot at an indoor range often so not having any smoke from burning lube is great.

85080

[xacex]

HF PC gun seems to be the way to go. After building a jig for pistol HP boolits, I haven't looked back since. My bullet are evenly cover except for the HP cavity. I also build a small PC'ing cart using the airbrush fume hood below to cut down on the mess, so the Ms. don't bother me :p ... works great. I shoot at an indoor range often so not having any smoke from burning lube is great.



That is kick ***! I want one! Even has the lazy Susan. If anyone else is interested in this little booth I found it on amazon for under 80$ with the exhaust hose.

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Airbrush%C2%AE-Portable-Airbrush-Extension/dp/B00B2TESUQ/ref=reg_hu-rd_add_1_dp


Is it working good for PC Joemoe?

[joemoe]

So far it's working great at reducing PC dust! Keeps the wife off my back :-P. The Lazy Susan is great but I have to use 2 small strips of Velcro tape to keep it from moving around. How durable is it? ... I will have to see. The filter can probably be made from less costly polyester air filter rolls if it needs changing. Haven't have to change mine yet.

[popper]

I got a shop vac with a filter, if I make a Y fitting I could reduce the suction. Makes a racket but what the heck.

[dezynco86]

OK so I'm convinced! I've purchased a bottle of powder from Harbor Freight and gave this a try by tumbling the coating on with both acetone and laquer thinner. I seem to get the best results with acetone. It was about time to get a new toaster oven also!

I coated some RCBS 200gr. 30 caliber's and shot them in my Super 14 Contender (30-30). I shot a nice 1.5" group at 100 yards - 5 shots! Not as good as I have done with jacketed bullets, but better than I've done with conventional lube and a gas check. I'm sure that a little experimentation should tighten that group.

My HF powder coating rig is supposed to be here tomorrow! I'll bet that FedEx won't show up on Saturday, even though the tracking shows that it is supposed to be here.

[bangerjim]

OK so I'm convinced! I've purchased a bottle of powder from Harbor Freight and gave this a try by tumbling the coating on with both acetone and laquer thinner. I seem to get the best results with acetone. It was about time to get a new toaster oven also!

I coated some RCBS 200gr. 30 caliber's and shot them in my Super 14 Contender (30-30). I shot a nice 1.5" group at 100 yards - 5 shots! Not as good as I have done with jacketed bullets, but better than I've done with conventional lube and a gas check. I'm sure that a little experimentation should tighten that group.

My HF powder coating rig is supposed to be here tomorrow! I'll bet that FedEx won't show up on Saturday, even though the tracking shows that it is supposed to be here.

You WILL be surprised and pleased with the ease of application and perfect coating you get with the gun!

Welcome to the next generation!

banger

[xacex]

I'll bet that FedEx won't show up on Saturday, even though the tracking shows that it is supposed to be here.

I get FedEx on Saturday. UPS makes you pay extra for sat deliveries. In fact my last HF order came on a Saturday as well. Got the mini chop saw for doing 300 Blackout cases with the jig. Don't be surprised if your order is on the porch tomorrow. I wish my glow in the dark powder would show up. This guy from ebay is jerking me around.

[el34]

My HF powder coating rig is supposed to be here tomorrow! I'll bet that FedEx won't show up on Saturday, even though the tracking shows that it is supposed to be here.

You'll get the hang of it pretty quickly but don't be too surprised if you make a powder mess the first time or two. The air pressure to the gun has a big impact on how much powder comes out, adjust it for a gentle thin spray, you'll see. The diffuser down at the end of the threaded rod just spreads it all over the place, I took it off for a narrower powder stream. Like banger's, my boolits are in rows 1" apart and I spray them row by row. When you tilt the thing downward a wad of powder, about a half-teaspoon, falls out or at least it does for me. An earlier poster recommended tapping the gun/bottle while spraying and that works for me too. After a half dozen batches or so I became comfy and confident. You will too, post some pics!

[bangerjim]

You'll get the hang of it pretty quickly but don't be too surprised if you make a powder mess the first time or two. The air pressure to the gun has a big impact on how much powder comes out, adjust it for a gentle thin spray, you'll see. The diffuser down at the end of the threaded rod just spreads it all over the place, I took it off for a narrower powder stream. Like banger's, my boolits are in rows 1" apart and I spray them row by row. When you tilt the thing downward a wad of powder, about a half-teaspoon, falls out or at least it does for me. An earlier poster recommended tapping the gun/bottle while spraying and that works for me too. After a half dozen batches or so I became comfy and confident. You will too, post some pics!

I had that powder "fall-out" problem at first, but after messing around with the flow control knob on the gun and the pressure reg (raising the pressure slightly and getting a bit more powder flowing out) the clumping was minimized and almost disappeared. I have found with the right combo of flow, pressure, and boolit spacing, I get pretty much 100% coverage from only ONE side! I do turn the rack and check for no silver spots showing thru and hit them if they are there, but the static charge attracts the powder in and around the slugs perrrrty well.

The key to anyone out there "listening in" is to experiment around with the technique and ask quesitons!

Good spraying!

bangerjim :guntootsmiley:

[randoma]

For those people looking for a larger oven, I used to use an electric range that I bought off Craigslist for $20.. Definitely has a larger capacity than a toaster oven.

85398 85399

85400 85407

For mounting boolits for powder coating, how hard would it be to add a very small diameter hole at the bottom of the mold (where you'd put a hollow point pin) and put a pin nail, or piece of copper wire and then cast the boolits around that? After you're done with the PC, it should be easy to pull the wire out. I'm thinking this would be most suitable for .223 size rounds, where you want any hole (like from a pin nailer) precisely centered. It seems like with PC and not needing lube grooves, you should be able to make a BTHP boolit in a similar design to the Sierra Matchking..etc.

[el34]

banger, I have been getting good all-around coverage too, I hold the gun above the boolits and spray almost straight down. That's when the loose powder wad falls out but I expect it and hold the muzzle to the side of my rack while pointing it downward. It's nowhere enough to try to recoup, I just don't want it on boolit tops.

Like you I check 360 degrees and usually see a bit of bare lead to touch up but not much.

I mounted a small HF regulator, $6 or so, right on the gun for easy adjustment.

[el34]

After you're done with the PC, it should be easy to pull the wire out.

Great idea, I'm worried you'd not be able to pull the copper wire out though, it'd possibly become a soldered joint. Maybe stainless nails (???) would work.

That's an impressive oven you got.

[Smoke4320]

for compressor pressure I find that 20 PSI cutoff which gives about 10PSI output when spraying almost totally eliminates wasted powder and gives great coverage . I spray at about 45 Degrees to the bullets.. YMMV

[popper]

Randoma - I use the HF pin nail gun, the meplat on mine is 0.2" and it's easy to get centered. It also doesn't make much difference if they are off center or bulge the ogive much. I tried the wire in the mould once - it is a pain for home casters. Not a problem for commercial. Easy to automate a commercial operation, too much $$ for home brew.

[randoma]

Randoma - I use the HF pin nail gun, the meplat on mine is 0.2" and it's easy to get centered. It also doesn't make much difference if they are off center or bulge the ogive much. I tried the wire in the mould once - it is a pain for home casters. Not a problem for commercial. Easy to automate a commercial operation, too much $$ for home brew.

Why was the wire-in-mould a pain?

[bangerjim]

banger, I have been getting good all-around coverage too, I hold the gun above the boolits and spray almost straight down. That's when the loose powder wad falls out but I expect it and hold the muzzle to the side of my rack while pointing it downward. It's nowhere enough to try to recoup, I just don't want it on boolit tops.

Like you I check 360 degrees and usually see a bit of bare lead to touch up but not much.

I mounted a small HF regulator, $6 or so, right on the gun for easy adjustment.

I shoot at about a 45 angle. The "mist" flows down and around the slugs, being attracted to them by the EMF charge and very little flows off the other side. I do it one row at a time from left to right and then right to left and move on to the next row. But the next row already had about a 50% coat due to the flow by!

I have my reg at the electronics box and use aquarium tubing from there to the gun. I put the air tube and the coax cable in that split cable wrap you get at Radio Shack for stereo wires so I only have to fight one hose! The small tubing gives sufficient volume and pressure to work very well. And I do not have to fight a big heavy air hose AND the coax.

banger

[bangerjim]

For those people looking for a larger oven, I used to use an electric range that I bought off Craigslist for $20.. Definitely has a larger capacity than a toaster oven.

85398 85399

85400 85407

For mounting boolits for powder coating, how hard would it be to add a very small diameter hole at the bottom of the mold (where you'd put a hollow point pin) and put a pin nail, or piece of copper wire and then cast the boolits around that? After you're done with the PC, it should be easy to pull the wire out. I'm thinking this would be most suitable for .223 size rounds, where you want any hole (like from a pin nailer) precisely centered. It seems like with PC and not needing lube grooves, you should be able to make a BTHP boolit in a similar design to the Sierra Matchking..etc.

Holy Bat Cave! That IS a big one. I have thought of that, but do not have room.

Nice.

banger

[bangerjim]

for compressor pressure I find that 20 PSI cutoff which gives about 10PSI output when spraying almost totally eliminates wasted powder and gives great coverage . I spray at about 45 Degrees to the bullets.. YMMV

DITTO! I have found 20 is the perfect reg pressure. (probably about 10-15 at the gun) My little back shop compressor is set at 90-100 psi and the little HF reg takes care of the reducing. I use aquarium tubing from the reg at the electronics box to the gun and that give perfect flow and pressure. 45 degree angle give multi-row coverage.

Keep up the good work.

banger

[popper]

32 ga copper (so I could close the halves) inserted into the bottom of a Lee 401/175, hard to keep in place, didn't hold a wrap too good when suspending to coat. You could use a pin & mould like a HP, have to have a rig to hold the pin in place. The pin nail gun is just easier for me. Goes as fast as I can put one in the PVC pipe, 15 min for ~200.

[dezynco86]

Hooray! FedEx dropped off a nice powder coat system for me today! I didn't know if they would make it on Saturday or not.

I went right to it and got a couple of small batches coated. It will take a time or two to get the spray right. I've got to work out how I'm gonna coat my 30 caliber boolits, nose-up or nose-down. If I coat them nose-up, I can place a gas check on them when I run them through the sizer. If I coat them with the nose-down, I may not need a gas check, and I'll have a "soft-point" where the bullets goes into the holding fixture I made.

What do you guys think? These are the RCBS 200 grain Silhouette's. I'll probably run these as fast as I can get them, around 2,000fps in my 30-30 Contender. The gas check (or lack of one) will not be an issue in my 300 Whisper AR-15, won't be able to run them very fast anyway.

Also, I coated some 45 grain 22 calibers to try in my .223. Seems OK, I'm running about 3200+ with no issues so far. I may never buy jacketed bullets again!

[Beagle333]

I thought maybe I could coat the middle and not the nose or the GC. The GC part was easy, I just put a GC on em without crimping it. I figured I would take it off and reuse it over and over when coating and just put new GC's on em for shooting.
Then I tried shoving the nose down through some foil into some 3/8 nuts. It didn't work. The paint got down on the nose anyway and made a ridge and some rough areas and so I have to find a better way. I can't coat the nose on these, because at .301 they already engrave on loading in my .30-30s, so I can't afford any more diameter on the nose. I used 3 different boolits for the test, but it didn't matter, since it got on the noses anyway. So it's back to the drawing board for my testing for .30-30 boolits.

The boolits on the right just show what is underneath the foil.
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/HF002_zpsb5864f7b.jpg

The coating was nice and pretty... but too complete, since it leaked down into the nut.
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/HF003_zps7bb2df28.jpg

The GC base and the driving bands are perfect..... 'now to discover a way to protect the nose....
Coating them lighter and multiple times would just deposit it on the nose slower. I need some way to make a seal that would not also make some flashing along the line where it joins the nose.
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/HF007_zpsc1f98f2c.jpg

[xacex]

alright, I only shot these two groups today, and am getting something strange. I am getting some vertical stringing, but as you can tell it is something I am doing because it changes direction between groups. This is a 16" AR 15 Beowulf that I built myself. The boolit is a lee 440 with aluminum gas check, P/C .5025 not water dropped. The group sizes are similar with the bottom one being just under 3"x1". Better, but still not one hole. Top one is a 7 shot group, bottom is a 5 shots with the bottom hole being my last shot. Am I just being to anal about groups with the Wolf? This was at 100 yards with a 2x4 wood rest, and a 3x9 scope with some thick *** cross hairs. At 100 yards the lines on my target were about 1/4 the size of my cross hairs. looks like I need a couple clicks to the left on this scope.
8551585516

[a.squibload]

Well the thinner took out my plastic bottle tumbler, softened it right up.
That's OK 'cause the powder was mostly sticking to the bottle anyway.
Will attempt a glass jar tumbler, maybe.

Picked up some JPW (paste wax as boolit lube), if that works out for my purposes
I can save the $50 on the powder sprayer, although I do like the way the sprayed ones turn out!
I'm impressed with all the technical development in this thread, might get me hooked on PC yet.

Took some PCd 380s, 38s, and 44s to the range today, all worked fine even though
they didn't look too good. Didn't clean the Redhawk last time, looks good now,
the PC rounds cleaned the barrel out!

[dezynco86]

Hey xacex. Those groups look pretty good to me! If you can shoot a group with the Beowulf without flinching and get a 3" group, you're doing OK! I have shot 1.5" with my Beowulf, but that was with one of those strap on "sissy pads" to keep it from beating the **** out of me!

I also use the Lee 440 cast lead bullets, I'm thinking about casting a few and PC'ing them soon. Are you gas checking your bullets? I was thinking about coating them standing on the nose and leaving the gas check off. The 440's can't run very fast anyway, so I figure the gas check is a waste of money.

I have an old piece of plywood to pin my targets at 100 yards. I love the time delay you hear - "BOOM...............WHACK"!

[dezynco86]

a.squibload, use one of those white plastic buckets like the ones that drywall compound comes in. That's what I am using and it works great. I'm using the gallon-sized one that you get at Wal-Mart. It's only about $6, just dump the drywall compound in the trash and wash out the bucket. Or get a 5 gallon sized one for about the same money.

[MacFan]

Good idea using aquarium tubing Banger. I use a coil hose and it's driving me nuts.

[500MAG]

I shoot at about a 45 angle. The "mist" flows down and around the slugs, being attracted to them by the EMF charge and very little flows off the other side. I do it one row at a time from left to right and then right to left and move on to the next row. But the next row already had about a 50% coat due to the flow by!

I have my reg at the electronics box and use aquarium tubing from there to the gun. I put the air tube and the coax cable in that split cable wrap you get at Radio Shack for stereo wires so I only have to fight one hose! The small tubing gives sufficient volume and pressure to work very well. And I do not have to fight a big heavy air hose AND the coax.

banger

Hey Jim,
What tip are you using? I left the one that it came with on the gun.
Thanks,
Charles

[xacex]

Are you gas checking your bullets?
I love the time delay you hear - "BOOM...............WHACK"!

Thanks, no sissy pad with these so between trying to keep the heart rest down and just taking the recoil these were the best at 100 so far. I am gas checking these, but I am also using a full house load of lil gun. 30.5 grains to be exact. there is little delay between the boom..whack.

[bangerjim]

Hey Jim,
What tip are you using? I left the one that it came with on the gun.
Thanks,
Charles

Well. I use the small one, but several on here have suggested and using NO tip! I will try that the next coating session. Makes sense, as we are not trying to cover large areas....only those perrrty little slugs!

banger

[popper]

xacex - how do they do @ 50? The scope should make for less error. I use a 6x18 for 100 shooting. You also might try sizing a hair smaller or softer alloy.

[xacex]

Popper, at 50 it is one hole. I was thinking a harder alloy, or water dropping them, and sizing to .501. If that does not work I am honing out my sizer to .502 because these were sized before PC, and I need to size afterwords too I think. A 6x18 would get me closer to the bullseye, but for what I am hunting in it would be useless.However, I have been thinking of a high power scope to do just load development work with. Something like a 24x should work fine. It is hard to get them that close with your heart beating moving the cross-hairs so much with it set at 9x, and the wolf does get the heart rate up with every shot!

I shot some P/C 311410 boolits with the large pin in the 300 blackout. Got them in one hole group for 10 shots at 25 yards with iron sights, so that one is getting better too! I think the scope that was on that one was bad, and causing my groups to open up. That's my story anyway. It was shooting better than the 5.56 with irons and jacketed!

BTW, the fella on ebay that sells the glow in the dark P/C refunded my money. He says he sent product but it never moved according to USPS. He says he will send something, but I doubt it. I really wanted to try it for a cold tracer. On to Teflon P/C then.

[Keola5o4]

Wow this topic reached almost 84 pages, havent been checking since I cast, powder coat and shoot every weekend, this is how they look!856228562385624

[orisolo]

Amazing pictures. How do you get the bases coated?

[a.squibload]

Keola those look good.

QUOTE=dezynco86;2447637]a.squibload, use one of those white plastic buckets...[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I have a 1 gal in the garage,
hope I can find the lid.

Tried a glass jar tumbler, the boolits just slid around.
Then I shook it by hand and in less than a minute got a
fairly even coat on all the boolits (about 50 in a pint jar).
Only a little bit of powder stuck in the jar.
Increased diameter by .002, just what was needed on those.
No pics, they're too ugly, but hey it works!

[Smoke4320]

I thought maybe I could coat the middle and not the nose or the GC. The GC part was easy, I just put a GC on em without crimping it. I figured I would take it off and reuse it over and over when coating and just put new GC's on em for shooting.
Then I tried shoving the nose down through some foil into some 3/8 nuts. It didn't work. The paint got down on the nose anyway and made a ridge and some rough areas and so I have to find a better way. I can't coat the nose on these, because at .301 they already engrave on loading in my .30-30s, so I can't afford any more diameter on the nose. I used 3 different boolits for the test, but it didn't matter, since it got on the noses anyway. So it's back to the drawing board for my testing for .30-30 boolits.

The boolits on the right just show what is underneath the foil.
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/HF002_zpsb5864f7b.jpg

The coating was nice and pretty... but too complete, since it leaked down into the nut.
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/HF003_zps7bb2df28.jpg

The GC base and the driving bands are perfect..... 'now to discover a way to protect the nose....
Coating them lighter and multiple times would just deposit it on the nose slower. I need some way to make a seal that would not also make some flashing along the line where it joins the nose.
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/HF007_zpsc1f98f2c.jpg

Wipe your tin foil with Pam non stick spray on a paper towel .. before pushing bullets thru ther tin foil ....eliminates all the stick and buildup

[popper]

xacex - I'm planning to try with smaller, not larger sizing. This stuff is almost getting like jacketed.

[Beagle333]

Wipe your tin foil with Pam non stick spray on a paper towel .. before pushing bullets thru ther tin foil ....eliminates all the stick and buildup

I'll test that out next weekend.
Thanks! :D

[Keola5o4]

Amazing pictures. How do you get the bases coated?

I been using the piglet method "homedepot paint thinner & powder coat" using a cap off a cd-r container, I mixed up at max was 1000 bullets in 2 hours including a 35 minute bake time, and they work pretty good!856598565985660

[Keola5o4]

85662 here's the amount of powder I usually use in the cd-r cap

[popper]

That hoe in the top was on purpose for hanging the 'pic' right?

[Mike Hughes]

Randoma - I use the HF pin nail gun, the meplat on mine is 0.2" and it's easy to get centered. It also doesn't make much difference if they are off center or bulge the ogive much. I tried the wire in the mould once - it is a pain for home casters. Not a problem for commercial. Easy to automate a commercial operation, too much $$ for home brew.

popper, are you using the HF pin nailer for a jig to hold up your boolits? I have been trying to figure out something for the smaller caliber stuff

[xacex]

popper, are you using the HF pin nailer for a jig to hold up your boolits? I have been trying to figure out something for the smaller caliber stuff

Lol! You missed it? its way back in there.

[popper]

Mike - yes, 23 ga. Put a hook in the end & hang over the wire rack of the oven. I use Hitachi pins as the HF don't work - bend when they hit the lead. Pressure @ 25 psi.

[Mike Hughes]

Mike - yes, 23 ga. Put a hook in the end & hang over the wire rack of the oven. I use Hitachi pins as the HF don't work - bend when they hit the lead. Pressure @ 25 psi.
Thanks popper, will give it a try

[Keola5o4]

That hoe in the top was on purpose for hanging the 'pic' right?
yeah i was on purpose haha! now i wish i should of shot that for the reason of hanging that on my wall.

[a.squibload]

Well at least nobody would steal mine:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IG9xOtuy-PU/UnDBpVJjtjI/AAAAAAAAAqI/XIpnGxcL2es/w958-h719-no/10-29_+001.jpg
Kinda ugly but they work, using the pickle jar method.
Didn't let them dry long enough, got some bubbles in the corners.
Maybe too much powder, this batch was sticky and hard to line up on the pan.

[Maximumbob54]

Squib,

That's the HF red, isn't it...? I had the same trouble. It WILL work if you put it on thin enough but it acts like two specs of dust too many and they look ugmo. Switch to the matte black and you won't have this problem. You still need to do two thin layers but they come out sooooo much better.

[Smoke4320]

Just got finished loading up this bullet for fireforming cases in a 30 herrett
thought I would share my results ..
Please keep in mind this is pistol shot at 50 yds
1st shot is the lowest and out of an oiled cold barrel
velocity is somewhere between 1500 to 1600 FPS right now ..
Bullet is seated to just cover the lube groove .. neck does not touch the first band .. and not crimped..
bullets were NOT separated by weight
plan to chrono after the first 50 have been fireformed..
I will be loading and trying to ladder up to 2000 FPS
So far I have tested this bullet with a 308, 300 blackout and a 30 Herrett .. I have gotten very good to great accuracy out of them all.. Pushing the 308 to 1978 FPS so far and no issues
lastly I want to test in a SKS


85946

[popper]

30/30 testing today, PC of course. 50 yds: RD311175_0.311, PB pretty good, 1500, No GC bad, 1690. 100 yds: 31-165 _0.310, GC good @ 1630 & 1920 fps. LeverE powder. Alloy is same I drive to 2400 in 308. Left is 100, right 50.
8596485965
I think this gun is better off bags than on. 50 was off, 100 on. Oh, PB were fired first, cold bbl, no flyer!

[xyankeeworkshop]

QUESTIONS ABOUT CASTING AND COATING FOR AN AR-15

At long last, I'm finally getting around to building by first AR. I'm going for a lightweight, midlength build and really don't see a heck of a lot of occasion to stretch it out past 250yds. Little by little I'm getting the parts together, but I want to do a little planning around what I'm going to be feeding it in the future.

I've settled on Pigletcoating for 9mm, .45, and .380 and have been having great success with it even in a factory Glock barrel. But rifle - especially 5.56 - is altogether another animal for me as I've been content to merely lob my cast 8mm Mauser loads downrange over 19 grains of 2400. Pushing toward j-word velocity is another story. My questions span both casting itself as well as how to deal with where we are in best practices for coating rifle boolits.

I've used Lee six bangers for most everything so far, but that's not really an option for .224. Which mold designs want to work best for this application?

Is Pigletcoating appropriate or do I need to consider ES spraying and gas checking them to get better surface uniformity?

I've not yet bought a barrel to hang on the rifle. I imagine a 9 twist rather than a 7 on a 16" barrel will be the best bet. Melonite? Chrome lined?

Work up the loads with a powder like 4895 typical for j-word loadings or something else?

[xacex]

xyankeeworkshop, I tried piglet method on 225 boolits, and didn't like it at all. For me it was to clumpy for such a small boolit. I did do some with ES and those worked good, but I have not done much testing with them to build accuracy. I was hitting a 6" pate at 50 yards 100% of the time, but I didn't like what I saw on paper. There is a few boolits that seem like good candidates for this. I have the Mihec 225 65 that I am working with, there is also a 75 grain version that might work better due to a longer bearing surface. JT Knives has also produces a HM-2 223 mold in the appropriate weight class, and NOE also has one. I would choose a gas check design and try all the methods including not putting on a gas check to see what best suits you. I would not use a Lee Bator mold for this in an AR15. I had one, and sold it off.
H4895 seems to be a great powder for this, and one report with standard lube,mag primer, about 19 grains of H4895 produced small groups with the Mihec 225 65 5.56 boolit. It would probably do it just fine with PC as well at a little faster speed. All of my testing so far has been with H335, and BLC-2. All out of H4895 so I have not done a workup with it yet.

[dverna]

xyk

I have the same objective. I have been following all the threads for some time and here is my opinion. 4895 seems like a good powder and that is what I will start with. I have a lot of Varget so it will get a try as well.

I am leaning more to elctrostatic coating. I am not willing to go through the pain of shake and bake three times to get a good coating.

I am in the GB for the 70 gr NATO bullets and that is what I will start with. But I am going to start with White Label Carnuba Red simply because if it works, I can size and lube in one operation and done with it. I do not need a max load but one that will cycle the gun and get me 2 MOA - that is enough for my needs for plinking/practice ammo.

[PointandClick]

Hello all! New here. I got interested in reloading and then casting a few years ago watching Iraqveteran8888's videos on Youtube. Got a Lee anniversary kit for Christmas a couple years ago and still haven't got around to setting it up. Would like to change that soon though.

This PC stuff is really interesting. I was looking to get into casting to save some money on plinking rounds for my milsurps. Has anyone tried PC any 8mm Mauser, 7.5 Swiss, or 7.62x54R? It would be interesting to see how close to full power loads one could get with PC.

I've been working my way through this thread, but only made it to page 51 so far. I've read that some have gotten PC loads in the 2800fps range, although those reports have been second hand and I haven't come across any of those loads in this thread yet.
What appears to be the upper limit for rifle loads, both GC and non GC, while maintaining some sense of accuracy?

[cstrickland]

Hooray! FedEx dropped off a nice powder coat system for me today! I didn't know if they would make it on Saturday or not.

I went right to it and got a couple of small batches coated. It will take a time or two to get the spray right. I've got to work out how I'm gonna coat my 30 caliber boolits, nose-up or nose-down. If I coat them nose-up, I can place a gas check on them when I run them through the sizer. If I coat them with the nose-down, I may not need a gas check, and I'll have a "soft-point" where the bullets goes into the holding fixture I made.

What do you guys think? These are the RCBS 200 grain Silhouette's. I'll probably run these as fast as I can get them, around 2,000fps in my 30-30 Contender. The gas check (or lack of one) will not be an issue in my 300 Whisper AR-15, won't be able to run them very fast anyway.

Also, I coated some 45 grain 22 calibers to try in my .223. Seems OK, I'm running about 3200+ with no issues so far. I may never buy jacketed bullets again!

could you please advise the barrel twist rate and what the groups looked like ?? from what I have seen no one has yet to be able to break the 2200 - 2300 fps with decent accuracy. good to hear you hit 3200

[Beetmagnet]

I've just read this 85 page thread. Lots of info to digest. I've silenty been learning from this site since April and just recently started casting. PC will save me from buying a lubesizer, so I'm ready to try this out.
I mentioned this to my wife, and as usual she couldn't care less. Mind you, she is a shooter ; she shoots IDPA with me. And then a funny thing happened. I showed her a picture of the pink bullet in this thread. She lost her mind. She demanded that I get on this immediately and get to producing them pink bullets immediately. So based on the pink bullet I have been given a pass to do as I wish. She even asked me to make some so she could give to her friend for Christmas. Whoever it was that posted the pink bulkets, thank you. Now where did you get the pink powder? I cant believe somebodies not selling these at a gun show.

[bangerjim]

I've just read this 85 page thread. Lots of info to digest. I've silenty been learning from this site since April and just recently started casting. PC will save me from buying a lubesizer, so I'm ready to try this out.
I mentioned this to my wife, and as usual she couldn't care less. Mind you, she is a shooter ; she shoots IDPA with me. And then a funny thing happened. I showed her a picture of the pink bullet in this thread. She lost her mind. She demanded that I get on this immediately and get to producing them pink bullets immediately. So based on the pink bullet I have been given a pass to do as I wish. She even asked me to make some so she could give to her friend for Christmas. Whoever it was that posted the pink bulkets, thank you. Now where did you get the pink powder? I cant believe somebodies not selling these at a gun show.

You can make pink by mixing the Harbor Freight red and white powders. Play with the ratios to get the color you want. Use a little black to tone it down if needed! It may not be "neon glow in the dark", but it is pink.........I have made some just messing around. I use the matte black for EVERYGHING.

Or spend a fortune thru the net with "powder by the pound"!

Welcome to the madness!



banger

[MJohnston]

86580



I liked the "glowing" pink better. The pink I use I bought off ebay and was called telemagenta and ran about $20 per pound shipped. A little cheaper than powder by the pound and I have had no problems out of it. I have actually had an easier time getting complete coverage spraying that than the harbor freight powder.

[Beagle333]

I'll probably switch the the wiser economics and functionality of the matte black HF powder, after I wear out the novelty of having em pretty and functional. :mrgreen:

(Blue with some leftover Moto-cycle green in the can)
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/blue-green001_zps7b4ea9e2.jpg

[xyankeeworkshop]

Beagle, those look just too darn purty to load into a nasty old brass case and shoot into the dirt.

[KYShooter73]

I'm working up my first gas check rifle loads. Lee 312-155 ES powder coat in 300 Blackout. Average is 1815fps with a spread of +/- 9fps. Can't hit nothing with my current set up. I have been sizing .309, but have a .311 sizer on the way. Slugging my barrel as measured with a caliper (don't have a micrometer) I get .307. I'm also coating after installing the check because the check won't fit the shank after PC.

How are you folks installing your checks after powder coating? Due to the leading I'm seeing on my comp and my poor accuracy, I think I'm getting some blow by and having PC on check can't be helping the situation.

[xacex]

I took off my flashhider and use a thread protector on the 300 blk. I was having the same issue with lead buildup and accuracy issues with it on. It is fine now. My jig hold the shank of the boolit so no powder coat gets on it, and I have been sizing .310 with a bored out .308 sizer I had around. You may have an issue with the .311 sizer being to big for consistent chambering. I have one blackout that is ok with that size, and another one that wont take them. I size those after P/C to put the check on. No issues now, and I can work on a good load during winter after the elk season is over. No, I am not using a blackout for elk, although at the ranges I hunt in here I could. The 50 Beowulf with P/C .502 lee 440's will be accompanying me on my hunt this year.

[Echd]

NOE 230gr .45 HPs fired from a Sig 220 in front of a decently respectable load of 7625. ES PC with HF matte black. Alloy is straight COWW water dropped with a touch of linotype for flavor.

http://i.imgur.com/ZHN8XZY.jpg

Good function, good accuracy, good retention, good expansion. These were recovered from dirt (mud actually) in a backstop after passing through hanging paper targets. The second from the left hit a rock and broke up. The ones that did not entirely expand were pretty much completely gunked up with dirt and mud when I found them.

[xyankeeworkshop]

xacex,

All things being equal, which caliber out of an AR will be a better solution for powdercoated cast boolits in your opinion- 5.56 or .300 Blk? Assume no need for anything outside of 300 yds.

As I slowly piece together this AR, I'm finding myself going back and forth between the two.

[Smoke4320]

Blkout all the way..
being able to shoot true subsonic and it function your AR plus anything from 110 grn to 247 gr makes it the sure choice..
plinking, self defense to hunting its a winner

[xacex]

Blkout all the way..
being able to shoot true subsonic and it function your AR plus anything from 110 grn to 247 gr makes it the sure choice..
plinking, self defense to hunting its a winner

^^ What smoke said^^ Why you ask? Well, you can push a cast 300 blackout the same speed as you would jacketed without loosing anything. You just cant do that with the 223. Plus, P/C or lubing and gas checking .223 boolits is a pain because they are so small. 300blk will do 300 yards, but it is up to the shooter to decide if they are as capable as the weapons system.
I find loading 300 blackout as easy as loading 45ACP if you have good cases. The best thing between the two calibers in an AR platform if how little powder you use in comparison to a 223. You use about the same amount as a 45 ACP for subs, and about 16 grains depending on powder and boolit for supers. That is 10 grains less than a regular 223 load.You may use more lead, but what is easier to find lead, or powder? If you are making your own cases from 223 cases pay special attention to case forming and trimming to attain the best accuracy. Get yourself a Wilson case gauge, or better yet a Sheridan gauge.

[xyankeeworkshop]

I was afraid you guys were going to say that. :killingpc

Who builds a .300 Blk as their first (and maybe only) AR?

Apparently I do. Just doesn't seem right. :D

[Echd]

I'm just about to place an order for a .300 BLK upper. You guys help me pull the trigger!

[xacex]

I was afraid you guys were going to say that. :killingpc

Who builds a .300 Blk as their first (and maybe only) AR?

Apparently I do. Just doesn't seem right. :D

I did to, then built some .223's, played with them, now all the .223's are for sale. It took about 2 years with both to decide I never need a .223. Now, I cant live without a 50 Beowulf or a Grendel in the stable as well. I wholeheartedly recommend all three calibers.
here are some P/C black 311410's with hollow-points. This was the first batch before I cleaned the die from the (messy) previous lubes. You can see some of it on the boolit from seating. These are as explosive, if not more explosive than Hornady V-max 110's. Jugs have been known to pop their tops up to 20 feet in the air. Might be good for a deer boolit with a lung shot or neck shot if I can keep the boolit together, but so far they explode violently. 8675686757

[xyankeeworkshop]

Looks like you sold a couple of .300 Blks today, xacex. I'd look into going on commission if I were you.

Now you need to learn me up on hollowpointing my molds. :p

[xacex]

Looks like you sold a couple of .300 Blks today, xacex. I'd look into going on commission if I were you.

Now you need to learn me up on hollowpointing my molds. :p

Buy the mold from Mehec my friend. I had nothing but trouble trying to hollow-point a mold myself. Funny, every time it seems I come around with my rifles I am short another one at the range. Ah, oh well. It gives me the opportunity to build an upgraded one.


I'm just about to place an order for a .300 BLK upper. You guys help me pull the trigger!

Lol, If your wife shoots you in the foot right around Christmas time don't blame me! These are not cheap toys even if they seem to be made of the same materials.

[Echd]

Fortunately not married, and just a cheap-o fresh out of college guy with some pocket money. That said, ARs do have a bad habit of multiplying... and subtracting from the wallet!

[Smoke4320]

"Who builds a .300 Blk as their first (and maybe only) AR?"
Actually many people are doing that very thing right now
enjoy

[dezynco86]

My first build was a 300 Whisper. Didn't have a need for a .223 Then I decided that I needed a .223. Sold the .223 and built a 50 Beowulf, I even ground out the ejection port my self! Then I built another .223, which I still have. Now I'm thinking about another 300 Whisper or a 6.5 Grendel

[Balta]

I get my MP 9 mm HP mold today..and yes i cast today and do some powder coating..Mold is awseome.Masterpice...
86817
I didnt get desired coverege but i was just rushing things..i think this gonna work anyway

[dezynco86]

UPS turned up at my house last night at nearly 8:30 pm! Delivered a box with Lee bullet sizing dies in .451 and .357. Now I can run the powder coated bullets that I've been making through and "true them up" for loading and shooting! I wish that Lee would sell the sizing dies alone without the bottle of alox. I see that the price of the alox is about 5.00 per bottle now. The kit with the die and lube is about $16 or so. That would be a big savings if I could buy the dies alone. I'm wanting several more sizes. Also, the shipping goes up because the "Lube and Size" kit can't go in regular mail.

[Echd]

That's how they get you, for sure. You can probably sell the Alox on the S&S here- I just got rid of a few spare bottles that way.

[Blacksmith]

UPS turned up at my house last night at nearly 8:30 pm! Delivered a box with Lee bullet sizing dies in .451 and .357. Now I can run the powder coated bullets that I've been making through and "true them up" for loading and shooting! I wish that Lee would sell the sizing dies alone without the bottle of alox. I see that the price of the alox is about 5.00 per bottle now. The kit with the die and lube is about $16 or so. That would be a big savings if I could buy the dies alone. I'm wanting several more sizes. Also, the shipping goes up because the "Lube and Size" kit can't go in regular mail.

Lee sells the dies separately as parts but the price for the die is $15 which is almost the cost of the entire kit.
http://leeprecision.com/parts/bullet-casting/lube-and-sizing-kit/

[Dutchninja]

I've read the 86 pages of this and forgive me if I missed it, but I'm assuming the coated boolits would feed just fine in Hornady's bullet feeder? Anyone have any luck with that?

[Beagle333]

Post #679 on page 34 says it works with his.



(these long threads really are a bear to search through!) :roll:


linkey to page 34 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?171403-Powder-Coating-Boolits/page34)

[Ken73]

So my question to all of the experimenters out here with powder coating is: Do you think that lube grooves/microbands are necessary with powder coating, since it appears that powder coating acts more like a polymer jacket, than a lube? After looking on the interwebs for a while, I came across a post where a gentleman had apparently modified his mold to remove all the lube grooves (for that matter, he might have just had a paper patched mold, I have no idea) but he had powder coated his boolits.

From the post-shot pictures I've seen, I don't know that there's a need for it.

[MostlyOnThePaper]

My only ar is a.458 Socom. It'll be starting on a diet of cast soon.

Randy

[Smoke4320]

My only ar is a.458 Socom. It'll be starting on a diet of cast soon.

Randy

If its a Rock River ..my loves the RCBS 45-300 and lees 500 gr plain base pointed Both powder coated of course

[MostlyOnThePaper]

Thanks! So far the only mold I've got for it is the 350gr one that NOE had a buy on last year or early this year. I just got into casting and am still gathering equipment.
It is surprisingly accurate with the Hornady 350rn, do I'm looking forward to seeing what it will do. I guess an HF coating rig is on the horizon.

[ebner glocken]

I just finished reading for now, 83 pages since last Thursday. BTW I stopped by Harbor Freight last Friday night and bought one of those guns. After spending all of my free time reading or PCing boolets, sizing, etc I plan on loading up some tomorrow. Wife is pissed, she'll get over it, the important thing is that I now have boolets coated and will be testing Thursday.

My current plans are: 303 brit and 7.62x54R (180gr) and try to work up to full velocity Thursday also a few .327 federal 115gr. Future plans are for .50 JRH, .500 S&W, .50AE, and .41 mag.

If it works in the fat 30s the others shouldn't be any problem. I'm surprised in the 86 pages so far nobody has tried in a desert eagle, polygonal rifling and gas system to boot. This should be new ground (if you have tried please tell). The only complaints so far has been speed compared to lubing via star sizer. I'm new at this and speed will come with time but so far it's an average of 75/hr, this will improve.

Has anyone tried 314299s through a M1? I'm wondering how PC will work through my M1 or M1A. Someone in an earlier post asked about 8mm, 7.5 swiss.......I'm game for that.

Ebner

[Beagle333]

So far, I have only shot .357 with the pc. But I just got my .45LC yesterday, so I'll be shooting some of those this weekend. As for speed, I can do 160/hr with my little 8x10" tray. It holds 80 boolits and I can do a pan every 30 minutes in my little toaster oven. I just start a load and go rake leaves or do something in the yard for 20 minutes and then it takes about 5 mins to cool enough to dump, and another 5 mins to set up a new tray and respray.... repeat. Now that I know it works great, I'm really keeping an eye out for a bigger oven and am going to move up to some volume coating! :grin:

[el34]

Hey Beagle, can you find something to use as a second tray? It'll greatly improve your throughput while you're waiting for a bigger oven.

At the scrapyard I bought a sheet of aluminum to make more trays, total of 4, and either get a second oven or fix things so I can use both tray slots in the oven I have. That'll keep me hoppin'.

[Beagle333]

I thought about that and made a second tray from a cookie sheet, but I'm still saving for the 3 bucks worth of 6-32 nuts it'll take to get it operational. ;):razz:

[el34]

I thought about that and made a second tray from a cookie sheet, but I'm still saving for the 3 bucks worth of 6-32 nuts it'll take to get it operational. ;):razz:

I'll assume you have plenty of JB Weld left over and don't need another 3 bucks for that eh?

[cstrickland]

So my question to all of the experimenters out here with powder coating is: Do you think that lube grooves/microbands are necessary with powder coating, since it appears that powder coating acts more like a polymer jacket, than a lube? After looking on the interwebs for a while, I came across a post where a gentleman had apparently modified his mold to remove all the lube grooves (for that matter, he might have just had a paper patched mold, I have no idea) but he had powder coated his boolits.



From the post-shot pictures I've seen, I don't know that there's a need for it.

Ken I have been having been wondering this myself. my curiosity is two fold
1- remove the bands altogether, and essentually as you stated you have a polymer paperpatch bullet
2- if it works can we make the bullets longer and seat them deeper. I would love to see a magazine length 80 - 90 grain cast bullet for the AR.
I think a nice medium - hard cast 85 grain 223 with or with our small HP would add more punch for medium size game.

[popper]

cstrickland - curious about this myself. Don't see a problem with short pistol stuff but long skinny rifle is different. Looking at 30 cal designs, the CM is ~ 5% (max) in front of the CF. For 30 cal, 1" long, 5%= 0.05". 1/2 dia is 0.15" From the rocketry guys, it should be 1/2 to 1 dia. difference for stability. They don't have much gyro spin at launch but we don't have much in the transonic region either. Just removing the grooves will move CM back. Slowing down & increasing angle of attack moves CF forward. CF > CM = tumbling! I do remember seeing the Utube of a 22 with nose damage - goes downrange, then radically moves 45 deg. Similar to when I dropped spun up uncaged gyro on the floor. Don't know where it is going to go.
At the same load, a RD311170 PB is not as accurate @ 100 as the same w/o GC. ~ 5 gr weight diff.

[Ken73]

Popper, I guess what I'm getting at is, is there a reason we can't copy existing jacketed designs since the powder coat acts more like a jacket than a lube?

[popper]

For pistol, probably yes. Several have just removed the grooves and done well, using H-T coating. I did a 9mm mould with the lube groove 0.010" deep and it works well. My goal was a slightly heavier and stronger CB. I can't prove any accuracy improvement as I only have a 3" bbl pistol in 9mm. It shoots the same as 115 gr jacketed so I didn't do anything wrong.
My interest is in 3/4 - 1" long 30 cal, a different problem. My 308 CB is similar to a 168 Amax but no boat tail & blunt nose. If I remove the grooves, the CM moves back, to the CF and it could tumble - not good. So I figure I need to make the nose longer to move the CM forward. For plinker loads at > 100 yds, the gyro spin is less as is fps, it hits trans-sonic and goes ape. I think the sub BO people would also need to figure this out.
So, no I don't have the answer yet. At $160 a pop for a mould from Tom, I'd rather not make an error.
Edit: I've shot a lot of the Rem 150 SPP from the 308, not as good as the Amax. As the PC is not as strong as Cu, alloy & bearing surface would need to be considered in copying a jacketed design. I understand there is a boat-tailed BO CB by Lee, might be a good starting point for experiments.

[Ken73]

I understand there is a boat-tailed BO CB by Lee, might be a good starting point for experiments.

This is the main one I'm referencing; apparently when powder coated this one does very well. I have this one, and have powder coated it (see page ONE of this thread..) :lol:

I'm wondering why that success can't be duplicated with other calibers/weights.

[ebner glocken]

87390

Tomorrow marks one week since I've started reading this thread. This weekend I coated some boolets, tonight I loaded some, the morning....moment of truth.

Here is some worked up 30/06, 303, and 45/70s. All are loaded pretty warm. I don't see much point in this unless velocities above traditional methods can be achieved.

Ebner

[popper]

Ken- you are the one who got me started doing this. How accurate is your BO? I think others are interested also, most are just thinking of modifying existing moulds. I'm not sure how we'll that will work, accuracy wise.

[Ken73]

Ken- you are the one who got me started doing this. How accurate is your BO? I think others are interested also, most are just thinking of modifying existing moulds. I'm not sure how we'll that will work, accuracy wise.

Not my direct experience as I was using those to test function and whether or not it would lead, etc., but others have reported great accuracy with that round (the Lee 309-230-5R in 300 Blackout) when powder coated. For that particular boolit, I don't see a need to modify it.

What I'm thinking about is more along the lines of copying an existing jacketed bullet design (long ogive like the above referenced boolit, boat tail) that have better ballistic coefficients - considering that I've heard we can run our boolits at rifle speeds, I'd like a 6mm boolit I can make myself for my 6mm/243 calibers I have. (243 Winchester, 6mm PPC, 6x45.) I'm considering changing out the barrel in one of my AR's to a 6x45 since it's the same case blown out to 6mm. Right now those are all bolt guns.

[ebner glocken]

Well here goes from today. 44*F today and windy. All boolets was sized and checked with gator checks, NO lube other than the powder coating.

303 Brit. lyman 314299 weighed @ 215 gr sized .313 5 shot averages
Load 1: 38.0 IMR 4064 avg 2153 FPS -no fouling
Load 2: 39.0 IMR 4064 avg 2164 FPS -no fouling
Load 3: 39.5 IMR 4064 avg 2220 FPS -no fouling 2 case head seperations...beyond limits
Load 4: Lee 180 gr sized .313 40 gr IMR 4064 avg 2315 FPS -no fouling
All of these was fired fairly quickly and barrel was MUCH cooler than firing jacketed at rate of fire. There just seems to be very little barrel friction.

Second gun, remington 700 SPS 24" bbl. Lyman 314299 sized .313 and again to .310 final dia 215 gr weighed.
Load 1: 42.0 IMR 4064 avg 2337 FPS -no fouling
Load 2: 43.0 IMR 4064 avg 2345 FPS -no fouling
Load 3: 45.0 IMR 4064 avg 2506 FPS -no fouling, extractor imprint on case head, cratered primer, no sticky ejection

Third gun, Marlin guide gun 16" bbl 45-70 weighs 7.8#, no porting, this hurt.
All loads used a 420 gr ranch dog, winchester primer, remington case, seated at 2.550" sized @ .460". After finished I shot 4 that had not had the case belled prior to seating boolet, no fouling at all until those 4 were fired. This seems to be a necessary step as it scraped the coating off and it showed when fired at least in the 45-70. Other guns that was fired today did NOT have the case belled.

Load 1: 54 gr IMR 4064 1808 FPS average, zero fouling, good accuracy, cratered primer, no interest in increasing recoil (my personal pain threshold in this light of rifle)


I was not exactly looking for accuracy today, it was windy, just trying to see if they went "bang" and checking for fouling. In the 30-06 I cleaned afterwords and found a slight tinge of red color on the first patch, all future patches came out with no more than carbon fouling.

The 45-70 had a fair amount of lead fouling but I'm sure that came from the last 4 rounds that had little if any coating left on them from seating, had to be brushed out.

The 303 had nothing more than carbon fouling. Before anyone chims in that SMLEs have alot of headspace and you should only neck size: These cases that was used today was range salvage, mix head stamp, I have NO idea how many times they have been fired. There was no choice than to FL size. They were free and I got exactly what I paid for.

Anyway, sorry for the long post but I hope this helps the cause.

Ebner

[MJohnston]

Ebner, Was that with the red harbor freight powder or another powder?

[ebner glocken]

Ebner, Was that with the red harbor freight powder or another powder?

Yes, red harbor freight. $5.50 a pound and no shipping. I have some yellow and white also for a later date. I'm still interested in seeing what this does in the gas system of a desert eagle.

Ebner

[dverna]

Ebner,

I cannot understand going to the effort of shooting that many 5 round test loads over a chronograph and not shooting them at a target!

Maybe I am out in left field but without accuracy, how does data on bullet design, type of lube/coating, bullet sizing, alloy, loads, GC's etc help us? If the groups are so bad that you do not want to post results - say so. Go ahead and blame the wind - but post the groups data and let us draw our own conclusions. Telling us the temperature, and it is was windy, only has value if they are reasons (excuses) for poor accuracy. Otherwise why mention it?

Please take this as constructive criticism!! We do not to keep re-proving that PC bullets do not lead at velocities in the 2000-2500 fps range. In fact, some people can even do that with stuff like Ben's, Simple Lube, White Label Lubes, Randy Rat lubes etc etc (wow!). The questions remaining are. "Will coated bullets group accurately over a series of groups and will they reduce the 'first shot out of a cold barrel' phenomena seen with traditional lubes?"

Don Verna

[ebner glocken]

No excuses, all were fired at 25 yards. Accuracy was poor out of the British. Probably 5" (didn't worry about measuring such large groups). I do think a different load, perhaps lighter, may produce better groups. So far that's unacceptable to me. More work required for this rifle. I'll try a different boolet next time.

The 45/70 actually shot pretty well as holes were touching with one flyer, my fault. This was only at 25 yards so nothing impressive there. Will test further another day.

The 30/06 shown much promise with a ragged hole. Nothing out of the ordinary with that rifle shooting condoms. If there was more time that day I would have tried at 100 yards with this load. This will be tested further another day.

BTW, no offence taken. Failure can be constructive as was in this case. I learned:
1. I can push 215 grains to the point of case head failure in 303 with no fouling.
2. A 45/70 will not heat up as much with PC as it will with paper patch boolets.
3. A 30/06 that shoots condoms well can more than likely shoot PC well.
4. Pretty cartridges that look like lipstick can make your shoulder sore the same.

Ebner

[Beetmagnet]

So working with a friend, this is our initial trial with the HF gun and black87853

[Beetmagnet]

Another pic87854

[xacex]

Looks good BM! It looks like you will be testing the 309-230 in the Blackout? Let us know of any differences you experienced with exposed base vs exposed nose on those.

[Beetmagnet]

Looks good BM! It looks like you will be testing the 309-230 in the Blackout? Let us know of any differences you experienced with exposed base vs exposed nose on those.
Blackout it is. Technically the pistol rounds are mine and the rifle is my friends. But I will definitely post results when we start shooting them. I was going to go with the piglet method, but the sprayer works so well.

[joecz858]

Ebner that was a great post, you took a lot of time to put all of that testing together. Thanks!
I've had similar experiences when it comes to belling the cases, I found the powder was scraping off and piling up on my shell holder. It took me a couple looks to see what was happening.

[Maximumbob54]

FYI, this has been another great use of the Lyman M dies for me. I used to use the Lee universal case mouth expander die for cast rifle loads and while it works I'm still shocked at how much better the M dies are even if I do now need one for all the different calibers I load. But then again I long ago stopped saying I'm reloading to save money. If you are still clinging to trying to reload to save money then the Lee offering does work.

[Beagle333]

If you are still clinging to trying to reload to save money then the Lee offering does work.
Clinging to? Why, I'll have you know that I'm going to save money! I just have to live to 614.;)

But back to the thread..... I just got my shiny new Lyman M die for 30-30 in the mail and am anxious to test it out!:mrgreen: Now.... to wait for a day with no wind so I can coat a few boolits.

[Maximumbob54]

Amen, brother. I may need to last until the same age if I ever stop buying stuff.

I'm aout to get the M die in for 8mm Mauser so I might try and tumble up some in Harbor Frieght's finest matte black and get out for some shooting again. I still keep missing the .30 short M die when it's in stock.

If someone else was able to trim down the local deer population with some PC then I must need to get back at it and find a load that shoots accurate.

[gds]

I am sure this has been asked, but doggone I cannot find it. What has been the simplest method of removing conventional lube from boolits that have already been cast, sized and lube? So they can be powder coated.

I used some mineral spirits and then cleaned them up with paint thinner. but it was kind of time consuming.

[Edubya]

Boiling them in water if you just want to get the lube out. 200 degrees will melt the wax and it will float to the top then skim it off a couple of times. You might then want to clean up the residue with a solvent.


I am sure this has been asked, but doggone I cannot find it. What has been the simplest method of removing conventional lube from boolits that have already been cast, sized and lube? So they can be powder coated.

I used some mineral spirits and then cleaned them up with paint thinner. but it was kind of time consuming.

[gds]

Thank you that sounds easier and cheaper.

[bangerjim]

Boiling them in water if you just want to get the lube out. 200 degrees will melt the wax and it will float to the top then skim it off a couple of times. You might then want to clean up the residue with a solvent.

Sorry.........water still does not remove all the grease!!!!!!!

You MUST use laq thinner. Soak them overnight in a glass or non-dissolvable plastic container. Shake them a few times and pour off the contaminated thinner.

No......they are still not clean enough for PC.

Now rinse them in clean thinner. Pour it off and save for the next batch's 1st cleaning.

Now put them in REALLY HOT water with Simple Green in it as a degreaser (best stuff ever invented....don't trust Dawn!) Swish them around really good and pour out. Rinse again with plain water. Since you used REALLY HOT water, they will dry rapidly.

Now.........they are completely degreased and ready for PC'ing.

That is the PROVEN method of removing 110% of the old grease lube. You can use boiling water, but the last time I checked my chemistry, grease and hot water do not mix! Or dissolve! Grease will still be left behind...a lot of grease.

I have done hundreds and hundreds of rounds using this 3 step method with PERFECT PC'ing every time.

You can do it easy.......or do it right the 1st time!

bangerjim

[popper]

89221
Recovered from a shale/chat pile. 30F. PC was still on the boolit except where it was scraped off. I scraped with a box knife and remaining PC was still stuck on good and was hard. I did notice one 40SW base had some cracks in the PC from impact shock. Retained wt > 90%. Recovered 2 GC from 308, no PC on them at all. GC below 40 has alloy on the back, guess I hit it with another.

[el34]

Sat and Sun I delubed over 3000 boolits tumbled with Recluse 45-45-10. Good lube but I want to PC them. I filled a full-size coffee can about 3/4 full and covered with new acetone. After soaking a few min I swirled by hand the top couple inches and pulled them out. Swirled the next few inches and pulled them out, repeating until the can was empty. Then did another batch, then another, about 4 batches to do all. Then tossed out the acetone and did the whole thing again with mineral spirits. Repeated a third time with new acetone to remove the spirits.

After they dried I did a test run of about 150 boolits and they PC'ed fine.

Then I went to Home Depot and got a jug of Simple Green, haven't used it yet but will use it for a final wash, maybe all of them simultaneously in a bucket or in batches if the water cools too much.

It didn't really take much time. Now I have several bottles of Recluse, cooked with love in an electric pan bought just for that purpose.

The fun never ends.

[BigBronco]

Please forgive me if this has been asked and answered before. However 88 pages on the subject is a bit much to read at this time.

Question.

What brinell or alloy are you casting. Hard cast or Straight lead for powder coated pistol boollits?