Powder Coating Boolits

[Beagle333]

I'm using 90% pure, 10%WW for mine. My whole purpose for PC was to be able to shoot some nice soft lead faster in pistols than before.

(I like the non-sticky on the fingers, non-gummy in the dies, "prettier boolit" aspects of it all too.... but mostly just to shoot soft slugs fast.):)

[BigBronco]

Thanks Just what I was wondering. I have much more pure than I do wheel weights. My monotype is limited. I think I am going to set up to give this a try. Hhhhm Christmas is coming and the kids keep asking what I want. The hand held sprayer just might be the answer.

[BigBronco]

I'm using 90% pure, 10%WW for mine. My whole purpose for PC was to be able to shoot some nice soft lead faster in pistols than before.

(I like the non-sticky on the fingers, non-gummy in the dies, "prettier boolit" aspects of it all too.... but mostly just to shoot soft slugs fast.):)
Oh what calibers are you doing?

[bangerjim]

Please forgive me if this has been asked and answered before. However 88 pages on the subject is a bit much to read at this time.

Question.

What brinell or alloy are you casting. Hard cast or Straight lead for powder coated pistol boollits?

I cast ALL my slugs at ~12 bhn. Or there abouts. With PC'ing, you no longer have to worry about the exact hardness. ( it may be 10 today and 12 tomorrow!) Just do not use soft lead for standard pistol/rifle slugs. Only muzzles and shot gun slugs. For supersonic rifles, crank up the hardness a bit.

I use the ~12bhn for 223/9/30/38/40/45............with great PC success. I have at times used ~15+ for the 223, 30-30, & 30-06.



Have Fun coating!


banger :Fire:

[Beagle333]

.357 and .45LC, and I intend to coat some .45-70s for my guide gun, but I don't have any fresh ones poured up.

[grumman581]

FINALLY! After 88 pages plus tons of links to other threads, I have finished this thread and have not seen what I was wanting to ask discussed yet. (I didn't want to be one of those people who ask a question that had already been discussed only 50 pages previously) :)

I'm curious how this process could be automated somewhat so that there was a steady flow of PCed bullets coming out of the system. I'm thinking an oven that was long, but not very tall or wide where the was some sort of trolley going through it where the bullets on hooks could ride. Kind of like a conveyor belt type pizza oven where the cook time is set so that by the time the pizza has made it through the oven, the cook time has elapsed. So, basically we would need either a slow trolley speed or a long skinny oven. The hooks could be made from some cheap thin wire (e.g. MIG welding wire @ 0.030" diameter is about $0.01 per 10 ft and you could make a couple of hooks per ft, so even if you don't reuse it, it would be cheap).

[NWPilgrim]

That is exactly how it is done with other commercial products. In fact it typically takes up an entire room. Doing that on a scale that fits reasonably into a typical home shop and is affordable is another thing. Granted, boolits are much smaller than fabricated sheet metal products but still it would take room for the staging before and after.

[Skip62]

Quiznos oven. They make smaller versions but they are rather expensive and I'm not sure whether they would go slow enough.

[grumman581]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that one of the options for getting the powder to stick to the object is to heat it up to around the curing temperature and then dipping it in a fluidized bed of the powder. Done correctly, I could see it resulting in very little powder waste. You would end up with one small ring inside a lube groove that did not have powder, but with thin wire, that should not matter. If you were using thin copper wire strands instead, i suspect that you could even cut the wire and leave it under the powder coat and in the lube groove.

I remember some people having problem with keeping the aluminum can gas checks on their bullets and having to resort to a drop of superglue or loktite between the gas check and the base of the bullet. I wonder if a bit of powder put in the gas check and run through an oven would also work for them.

Just for curiosity, has anyone tried weighing a bullet before and after powder coating to see how much is being gained?

Although I have been satisfied with tumble lubing, I recently encountered an indoor range that did not allow bare cast lead bullets and it would be nice to have a method that was quick and would satisfy ranges that had the mistaken notion that jacketed bullets result in less lead exposure (i suspect that they fail to realize that not all jacketed bullets have a jacket on the base of the bullet).

[WallyM3]

A good conveyor oven can be based on an appropriate length of wood stove chimney piping and mica strip heating elements (220).

[bangerjim]

FINALLY! After 88 pages plus tons of links to other threads, I have finished this thread and have not seen what I was wanting to ask discussed yet. (I didn't want to be one of those people who ask a question that had already been discussed only 50 pages previously) :)

I'm curious how this process could be automated somewhat so that there was a steady flow of PCed bullets coming out of the system. I'm thinking an oven that was long, but not very tall or wide where the was some sort of trolley going through it where the bullets on hooks could ride. Kind of like a conveyor belt type pizza oven where the cook time is set so that by the time the pizza has made it through the oven, the cook time has elapsed. So, basically we would need either a slow trolley speed or a long skinny oven. The hooks could be made from some cheap thin wire (e.g. MIG welding wire @ 0.030" diameter is about $0.01 per 10 ft and you could make a couple of hooks per ft, so even if you don't reuse it, it would be cheap).

I know y'all like to do things BIG in Texas. But mass producing PC boolits?

With my little oven and 4 racks I can do anywhere between 200 and 250 (depending on cal) at a time every 15 minutes. With spare racks you are spraying while a batch is baking. That is pretty fast thru-put for a home hobby.

What you are talking about is a commercial horizontal conveyor oven. Problem is you can't feed the sprayed boolits fast enough into it to gain the extreme expense involved.

I trust you are using the ES PC gun for quality boolits and not a liquid slopping method!

It is a tall order, but that is what is great about American...........we dream big. The liberal government just gets in the way all the time!!!

Let us know what you do!!!!!


banger

[Russel Nash]

FINALLY! After 88 pages plus tons of links to other threads, I have finished this thread and have not seen what I was wanting to ask discussed yet. (I didn't want to be one of those people who ask a question that had already been discussed only 50 pages previously) :)

I'm curious how this process could be automated somewhat so that there was a steady flow of PCed bullets coming out of the system. I'm thinking an oven that was long, but not very tall or wide where the was some sort of trolley going through it where the bullets on hooks could ride. Kind of like a conveyor belt type pizza oven where the cook time is set so that by the time the pizza has made it through the oven, the cook time has elapsed. So, basically we would need either a slow trolley speed or a long skinny oven. The hooks could be made from some cheap thin wire (e.g. MIG welding wire @ 0.030" diameter is about $0.01 per 10 ft and you could make a couple of hooks per ft, so even if you don't reuse it, it would be cheap).

Say what?!

You didn't see or read any of my posts then.

Right from the get-go, I was asking how to upscale powder coating bullets. I know I specifically mentioned fluidized beds and pizza ovens.


Supposedly, there is a new bullet company coming onto the scene that powder coats their bullets, in bulk.

I'd give ya'll their website address but it is still under construction.

[Magana559]

Hello guys, Im trying to find a cast Boolit that will work in my Ruger SR9c. So far I have tried a bunch of different alloys, lubes, Hi-tek, and now im interested in PC boolits.

only problem is I do not want to spend a bunch of money on a PC gun and supplies before I know it works. So I come here and ask if anybody is willing to send me 100 PC 124gr cast boolits .356 diameter cast out of a Lee 6 banger TL RN boolit mold with Harbor freight black coating.

I know it sounds like a lot to ask but that is what im going to buy and that's what I need. Ill be up for paying for the boolits and postage If anybody is willing to help I would be 100% thankful!

Thank you very much!

[MJohnston]

To get my sr9c to quit leading I had to size to .358 and use a expander plug for a 38 s&w die (not 38 special) in my lee 9mm die. Can't remeber the part number but it was less than 10 shipped from lee if you use lee dies. There was a thread a while back that I got the idea from. I still got a small amout of lead and the powder coating took care of that. I dont have rn boolits since mine feeds the tc better I stuck with them. If you want to try them just pay for a flat rate box and I'll send you some.

[Magana559]

I can pay you a flat rate box, do you take paypal?

[MJohnston]

Pm sent

[popper]

magana - the dry tumble seems to work good with all BUT the HF black. Saves the cost of compressor & ES gun. If you use Lyman plugs, get the 38P. Works fine in my XDs 9. PC solved the problem of leading in my PX4 40. You will have to watch the nose diameter, PC adds 1-2 thou and it may not chamber.

[slim1836]

Ok, I'm sold. Santa is going to bring me a HF gun along with red and black powder.

Got a toaster oven and tray dedicated to baking operations last week. Had an air compressor and will be looking for a lazy Susan to spin my tray while coating Boolits. Going to set my .45 boolits on nuts to get them off the non stick foil and hope to put my gas checked ends in washers (sprayed with a little Pam) for supporting my .308 and 7.62x54R and apply checks during sizing operations. Going to put the spray booth and oven on my workmate so they are close.

Planning on using cardboard box as coating booth, may install small fan and powder recovery system if needed. Got to experiment on this a little more before committing.

What should be the air pressure be going into the HF gun? Should I use the large tip, small tip, or no tip at all?

The thermostat on my oven does not match up with an oven thermometer I bought at Lowes which does not match my Tel-Tru thermometer. Did not put the Tel-Tru thermometer directly in the oven as I did not know if the clear face would melt or deform, but did stick in the side of the oven opening. Any suggestions? It looks like it's going to be by trial and error to find the sweet spot. The hammer test will be the deciding factor.

I will also be getting some free powder from a friend whose customer coats car lifts. Will try to find out more on this later.

Will not be coating till sometime after the new year, too much to do, can't wait to try.

Any tips or feedback is appreciated.

Slim

[bangerjim]

Slim......

Use about 12-16# on the gun. I use the little $6 HF reg/gauge unit the sell right off my 120# shop compressor.

Check out my pix on one of the PC threads that shows how I use 1/4" aquarium tubing in the split flex wire wray Radio Shack sells to contain the gun electrical coax AND the little air line. Works GREAT! I cannot imagine any one using the gun with a big heavy rubber air line AND the coax hanging off the gun!

Airflow (Not pressure) is adjustable with the brass know on the gun.

Get the powder to gently flow out, not pour out in great volumes. If your system is tuned properly and you are using the correct techniques, you will NOT need a vent fan, powder recovery system, or even a spray booth....unless you have lots of wind all the time where your are spraying. After spraying 8-10 batches of boolits, I probably have no more than 1/8 tsp of wasted powder around the spray area (workmate outside). Not worth trying to collect.

I use the small tip. Some use none at all and cut off the threaded rod. Your call.

Good luck........you WILL have it with this easy coating method!

Remember.......ONE spray coat.....ONE bake cycle......that does it!


And don't forget to attach the ground wire and step on the switch when spraying!!!! don't ask me how I know to mention that!!!!!!!!?!?!??!

Have a Merry Christmas and let us know you get along after the New Year.

banger

[Beagle333]

And don't forget to attach the ground wire and step on the switch when spraying!!!!
banger

'Soooooo easy to overlook that part, until one notices that the powder is just swirling around the boolits and settling on the foil. :oops: [smilie=b:

[cbrcc]

After reading all 5k? pages related to PC here's my first attempt. Thanks to all those that went before me. Question...I made a wire cloth tray to apply PC and bake on. Do I need to grind off PC from wire periodically to maintain a good electrical ground?
89971

[KYShooter73]

After reading all 5k? pages related to PC here's my first attempt. Thanks to all those that went before me. Question...I made a wire cloth tray to apply PC and bake on. Do I need to grind off PC from wire periodically to maintain a good electrical ground?

You need to get it off somehow, or line it with foil. You can get by several bakes just putting your boolits in the same spot. It is tough stuff to grind or wire wheel off. On my hollow point jig, after 20 or so layers, I take a torch to it and set the PC on fire, then run over it with a wire wheel.

-Slim...I used a male/male adapter and attached the HF regulator Banger was talking about directly on my gun, set at about 15-20psi. I don't use a diffuser at all. One thing I've learned in the last few coating sessions since it has been cold, it works wonders to pre-heat your boolits for a few minutes, take them directly out of the oven and spray.

[oldgeezershooter]

Say what?!

You didn't see or read any of my posts then.

Right from the get-go, I was asking how to upscale powder coating bullets. I know I specifically mentioned fluidized beds and pizza ovens.


Supposedly, there is a new bullet company coming onto the scene that powder coats their bullets, in bulk.

I'd give ya'll their website address but it is still under construction.
Try this.
http://www.snscasting.com/coated-bullets/

[Magana559]

Thanks to MJohnston. He is sending me some PC boolits so I can try em out.

I hope Something makes this darn thing shoot

[slim1836]

To all the others contributing to this thread, it has filled me with lots of info. Hope to get up and coating in January. Gonna be fun.
KYShooter73, Stayed in your town in the late 70's and Jamestown also. Was building an addition to the water treatment plant there (J'town) and a waste water treatment plant between Russell Springs and J'town. Still dry down there? Had to pay 4 bucks/6 pack back then from the bootleggers. Very nice area and had a lot of fun during my stay.

Slim

[KYShooter73]

Ya, I remember that project, back around 91-92 I think. It still dry as a bone here, but Somerset went wet last year, just 25 minutes up the parkway. At least they are getting some decent restaurants now. The lake has been lowered for a few years to reinforce Wolf Creek Dam, so that has hurt our tourist dollars quite a bit. All in all not that much has changed around here.

[Ken73]

Slim, did you already buy your HF gun? If not, consider this one instead; no air compressor needed:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Fully-Electric-Powder-Coat-Gun-Complete-System-with-Craftsman-powder-sample-/301010595036?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4615a12cdc

This is the one I use for coating boolits; a lot easier to use! Not much price difference between it and the HF unit, and a whole lot easier to use.

[slim1836]

Slim, did you already buy your HF gun? If not, consider this one instead; no air compressor needed:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Fully-Electric-Powder-Coat-Gun-Complete-System-with-Craftsman-powder-sample-/301010595036?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4615a12cdc

This is the one I use for coating boolits; a lot easier to use! Not much price difference between it and the HF unit, and a whole lot easier to use.

Have not bought one yet, however, I am going to get the one from HF, heard too much against the Sears gun in previous posts and I like the ability to regulate the air flow to my needs.

Slim

[bangerjim]

Slim........

Good choice to avoid the sears thing. They dropped it for a reason. I have had negative reports about it. Yea......you don't need a compressor. But I believe almost EVERYONE has a compressor today! Even the cheeepst of cheeeep at HF will do the job. And everybody need one to pump up tires on the car/truck/wagon/cart/etc around the place.

The control you have with the HF unit is pretty good. I have had excellent luck with it.

Let us know how it goes.

banger

[Ken73]

Interesting, I had not read any of the negatives of the Sears unit - anyone mind filling me in? I've been using mine without problems.. I have the HF unit as well, and two air compressors, but found the Sears unit easier to use.

[KYShooter73]

Interesting, I had not read any of the negatives of the Sears unit - anyone mind filling me in? I've been using mine without problems.. I have the HF unit as well, and two air compressors, but found the Sears unit easier to use.

I read several reports of the plastic casing breaking, or being shipped broken, especially where the PC reservoir attaches, and difficulty finding extra reservoirs. Just what I read, never used one.

[xyankeeworkshop]

I got the Sears unit for $35 last year and I can tell you the reports of self-destructing are true.

Heck, I really have not even used it all that much and the plastic grip is crumbling and the reservoir lock snapped off. All of that is offset, of course, by the joy of needing to shake it like a Polaroid picture while you're using it so the powder will actually, you know, feed and stuff. That makes for some mighty even coverage, let me tell ya. Also, it may not hurt to have an oil filter wrench, breaker bar, and a Catholic priest to get the cap off the reservoir to refill it. The priest can help you clean up the spilled powder, too.

It may be the first time this has ever been uttered in the English language, but get the HF gun - it's much better quality. Oh, and btw, mine's for sale if anyone wants it.:-P

[bangerjim]

The HF PC guns use air because 1) it creates a "fluidized bed" in the jar, 2) the air propels the fluidized powder stream out of the gun.

I have and no problems with my HF set up. I have, as said, heard of others having some problems with the sears thing. And no, I cannot give you names and addresses and times and places! Just what I have heard blowin' in the wind.


banger

[bangerjim]

The HF PC guns use air because 1) it creates a "fluidized bed" in the jar, 2) the air propels the fluidized powder stream out of the gun.

I have and no problems with my HF set up. I have, as said, heard of others having some problems with the sears thing. And no, I cannot give you names and addresses and times and places! Just what I have heard blowin' in the wind.


banger

[Russel Nash]

Try this.
http://www.snscasting.com/coated-bullets/

Nope, somebody else.

[xacex]

I wish they had additional reservoirs for sale for the H/F unit. The threads on them are different that the jars the powder comes in. I have thought about cutting off the one that comes with it, and attaching one of the jar lids instead so I can just put on the jars, and have an extra reservoir when it is empty for other colors.

[popper]

My HF PC jars fit my HF gun, my first mistake was putting the PC jug on the gun - that doesn't work! My gun came with 1 extra empty jar. They traded out my black for red yesterday, no problem. Need to find my small funnel for pouring powder into the jug so I don't make a big mess.

[sbeatty1983]

My HF gun quit working a couple months after the waranty ran out, went back to HF to get another one but they were out of stock. Ordered a "sears" gun off ebay, Big mistake, It is terrible. I get uneven coverage, and the powder doesnt stick well. Now on to the flaws of the gun itself. grip is cracked in several places even though it hasnt seen hard use, Reservoir is nearly impossible to get off unless you have a flat head screwdriver to pry it forward. the cap for the reservoir is nearly impostible to twist off after you have used the gun and powder has gotten in the channel for the lug to slide in. The HF is light years ahead of the sears unit in both design and quality. Ill be getting another HF gun after Christmas.

[Magana559]

FINALLY something that allows me to shoot cast out of my 9mm!
Hf powder coat red! Using acetone and tumble them in a plastic container and it coats them nicely.
Shot 100 rounds today with a super clean barrel!

Going to PC some rifle boolits and see how it goes!

[fastfire]

[smilie=b:I have read all 90 pages in the last 2 weeks but I didn't take notes.
I am ready to PC my first batch using HF black, I am looking for bake times and temps.
I also have HF red and white and can't remember which one didn't work well?

[bayjoe]

fastfire
I cook mine at 400 degrees for 15 minutes.
HF red and white both work the same. I have found in pistol loads color hasn't made any difference. There are a lot more opinions about HF black versus other colors as black Is matte and appears to be a tad bit course. Read on and make up your mind.
Good luck and have fun !!!

[bangerjim]

HF black, red, and white cover very well. The yellow tends not to cover the darker lead! Works well when mixing to get other colors.

I use ONLY the black on everything as I like the color and finish.

Per the directions................400F for 10 min. Only thing I use and it works perfectly. Just make sure your oven is accurate! DO NOT trust the temp dial on cheap toaster ovend. Get a good internal thermometer.

banger



[smilie=b:I have read all 90 pages in the last 2 weeks but I didn't take notes.
I am ready to PC my first batch using HF black, I am looking for bake times and temps.
I also have HF red and white and can't remember which one didn't work well?

[bangerjim]

You do NOT want to put a full jar on the gun as I have warned about several times in the past!!! Even the directions tell you to put ONLY about 1.5" of powder in the jar. You are creating a fluidized bed in there and MUST have a lot of room for the powder to be "liquid". A full jar will only lead to big clumps coming out and VERY poor results and massive amounts of wasted powder.

Follow the directions and use the empty jars that come with it an keep the powder in the jar you bought it in.

No they do NOT fit the gun!

banger





I wish they had additional reservoirs for sale for the H/F unit. The threads on them are different that the jars the powder comes in. I have thought about cutting off the one that comes with it, and attaching one of the jar lids instead so I can just put on the jars, and have an extra reservoir when it is empty for other colors.

[fastfire]

I bought a Breville smart oven, I think there suposed to be accurate for temp settings, Thanks


HF black, red, and white cover very well. The yellow tends not to cover the darker lead! Works well when mixing to get other colors.

I use ONLY the black on everything as I like the color and finish.

Per the directions................400F for 10 min. Only thing I use and it works perfectly. Just make sure your oven is accurate! DO NOT trust the temp dial on cheap toaster ovend. Get a good internal thermometer.

banger

[popper]

400F for 10 min. - interesting, mine say an extra 15-20 min after they glaze over. And mine fit the gun, at least the white jug did. No matter, I cook for ~ 1 hr. then WD.

[bangerjim]

400F for 10 min. - interesting, mine say an extra 15-20 min after they glaze over. And mine fit the gun, at least the white jug did. No matter, I cook for ~ 1 hr. then WD.

Whatever floats your boat!

I have done thousands of boolits using only the 400F for 10 min rule. They all pass the hammer test and shoot with no smoke and NO LEADING! And have perfect flawless smooth coating.

I think your 1 hour time is wasting valuable time. I can coat and bake hundreds of slugs in an hour. But if you are having the success you are happy with.....excellent!

Good luck!

banger

[popper]

Banger - cook for WD my alloy, correct, the extra time is not needed for the coating. I've cooked for the 10 min and they appear fine. Just stating the supplier's instructions. I think the extra time is to insure the boolit & coating completely get to cure temp., the melt & flow time is different from the total cure time.

[Beagle333]

Mine in HF red do perfectly with the 400 for 20 mins, but yes the red HF instructions are to bake for an additional 15-20 after gloss over. I have not had any problems with the 20 minute bake on any of my boolits. The candy colors that I have played with, must be baked at 350 or they will smoke like mad and run off the boolits and puddle in the pan. (I didn't have directions for the candy colors, I bought them off Fleabay)

[fastfire]

PC'd my first boolits,with HF red.
These were sized .452 before and after PC, The sizing after left scratches or scrapes.
I prewarmed them,PD'c and cooked 15 min after they glazed at 400.

[Beagle333]

They look a little dark. ('could just be the camera). These have been sized after coating, and then resized to add a PB gas check, and they didn't scratch. Was your sizing die clean? That looks a little like they were smeared with something darker. :confused:
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/HF022_zps8858d813.jpg

[fastfire]

That darkness is the lead, it past the smash test.

[ipijohn]

I size, PC, bake then re-size and crimp on the GC in one step. I get black streaks also. The streaks are from the aluminum GC's begin swagged onto the shank of the boolit and they wipe off easily.

[prickett]

only problem is I do not want to spend a bunch of money on a PC gun and supplies before I know it works. So I come here and ask if anybody is willing to send me 100 PC 124gr cast boolits .356 diameter cast out of a Lee 6 banger TL RN boolit mold with Harbor freight black coating.

I know it sounds like a lot to ask but that is what im going to buy and that's what I need. Ill be up for paying for the boolits and postage If anybody is willing to help I would be 100% thankful!

Thank you very much!

You can try it for yourself for $5 (assuming you have the ability to bake them). Go to HF and buy their red powder paint. Dry tumble your boolits in a tupperware container with a handful full of boolits and a 1/4 tsp of paint. Tumble for a few minutes until you get full coverage on the boolits. Bake them for 20-25 minutes.

This will give you approximate results of an ES gun. You may find you prefer this method (gets around having to stand up all the boolits in order to coat)

[Magana559]

Using the piglet method with great results

[gefiltephish]

Can someone post the item number of the HF regulator y'all are using? All I've seen reference to is $6, which is meaningless if they change the price.

Is it this one? http://www.harborfreight.com/150-psi-air-compressor-regulator-kit-with-gauge-68223.html
Seems like a lower pressure gauge is needed to be able to fine tune below 20#.

[Smoke4320]

that one will work just fine .. I have been using one similar .. works just fine

[bangerjim]

I have several of these on my main air feed line and they work perfectly!

banger

[slim1836]

Just as I thought, Santa brought me a HF spray gun and red, blue(from another source), and black powder. I used the red on 2 small batches and they turned out fine, albeit the second batch was darker. Going have to work on temp/time control in the future. Coated .45 TL LEE 230 gr set on small nuts to keep them from adhering to the foil, however, they did stick to most of the nuts. They came off easy though and I'm pleased with the overall results. Cleanup was sort of messy.

Can't post pics as I haven't learned how to yet, but trust me it did happen.

I'll try the smash test tomorrow.

Happy, happy, happy.

Slim

[bangerjim]

This is the one I got. It actually was $6 even, a month ago. 8-)
http://www.harborfreight.com/125-psi-air-flow-regulator-with-gauge-68219.html


That is ONLY an air FLOW valve with a gauge........ NOT...repeat NOT a pressure reducing regulator. If you hold your finger over the end, the pressure will build up to the max the compressor has. Designed to be used on constant feed air paint sprayer guns where you control FLOW....not PRESSURE.

Notice it says "...maintain proper AIRFLOW."


You need to get the one listed above which is a true pressure reducing REGULATOR.......set it at 10# and no matter the flow it will be 10#.
(until you max out your airline CFM capacity)

That is the only one that will operate the gun in the right way......LOW maintained pressure.

banger

[Beagle333]

Okay... maybe it only works for me because i got the air regulated at the tank. Thanks for the correction. I'll delete that post so I don't mislead people.

[MacFan]

Mr. Banger is correct. Try this one- http://www.harborfreight.com/150-psi-air-compressor-regulator-kit-with-gauge-68223.html

[bangerjim]

Mr. Banger is correct. Try this one- http://www.harborfreight.com/150-psi-air-compressor-regulator-kit-with-gauge-68223.html

As I tell my wife.........."Mr. Banger is ALWAYS correct!"

For some reason.........she ALWAYS ignores me! Even after 39 years.


HA............ha!

Beagle.........it can be a bit confusing if you are not used to pneumatic stuff. Just glad to help guide people in the right directions.

bangerjim

[el34]

they did stick to most of the nuts.

I had the same experience until I put Reynolds non-stick foil over the nuts. I now do the same as beagle, the nuts are JB Welded to the tray and the foil is placed over them, slightly mashed around them to create pedestals for the boolits to sit on. The foil can be used a second time but beyond that is pushing it and will need replacing.

If you have pictures on your computer it's easy to post them. Right above the box you type your post in there's a row of icons, the 4th from the right end is the one to use. Put your mouse over them to get their purpose and find/click the "Insert Image" icon. Be sure the 'from computer' option is selected and go find (browse) the picture filename. You'll be invited to 'upload images'. The picture will show up right where you left the cursor when you were typing your post so put a carriage return (Enter key) in your post before and after the ..... stuff to place the pic where you want it. You'll get it after the first time.

[flyingrhino]

I'm getting excellent results with HF paints and Acetone. Got a convection/toaster oven from Lowes for $30. I waited until the big holiday sale was over and all the ovens were gone then asked to buy the display. Got 2 ovens this way. Got a $30 one for $9 and a $79 one for $27. The cheaper one isn't convection. I found I got better results with the convection because the temp is much more consistant inside. The non-convection had hot spots and cooler spots. It actually melted 2 of my bullets that were directly beneath the element yet the ones in front close to the glass door never got hot enough to get a good glaze.

No more lubing for me. This is quick and easy and they shoot like jacketed but leave a cleaner barrel.

[HATCH]

You still have to size them.

What is everyone doing for sizing??

[Beagle333]

They'll slip right through my Lee sizer easier than TL coated ones. Coating adds about .002 to mine, and sizing is slick! I have seen posts by others who are putting them through their lubesizers, but without the lube.

[bangerjim]

You still have to size them.

What is everyone doing for sizing??

Buy the ~$18 Lee lube & sizing kit and throw the LLA away. Get one for each cal you cast. I size each boolit after casting and then again after coating (ONE coat). Some do not do the 1st size.....I prefer that method.

DO NOT USE ANY LUBE!

Very cost-effective method!

banger

[Mbedwell1971]

I am also doing the pre and post sizing. I have not done any without that process and my accuracy with my handgun rounds is excellent. I have a couple of rifle moulds on the way and will do the same with those.

[grumman581]

I was at Harbor Freight last night and noticed that the red, black, and white powders were $3.99 per 16-oz container. The yellow is still at the regular price.

[bangerjim]

Yes...........heads up..........

HF powders are on sale I believe thru Jan 20th or so.

Yellow (which does not work for us anyway) is not on sale.

I cleaned my local store out on the 31st!

banger

[slim1836]

EL34,
Thanks for the info on posting pics, I will try that.
Slim


I had the same experience until I put Reynolds non-stick foil over the nuts. I now do the same as beagle, the nuts are JB Welded to the tray and the foil is placed over them, slightly mashed around them to create pedestals for the boolits to sit on. The foil can be used a second time but beyond that is pushing it and will need replacing.

If you have pictures on your computer it's easy to post them. Right above the box you type your post in there's a row of icons, the 4th from the right end is the one to use. Put your mouse over them to get their purpose and find/click the "Insert Image" icon. Be sure the 'from computer' option is selected and go find (browse) the picture filename. You'll be invited to 'upload images'. The picture will show up right where you left the cursor when you were typing your post so put a carriage return (Enter key) in your post before and after the ..... stuff to place the pic where you want it. You'll get it after the first time.

[slim1836]

I hope I did this right, my first attempt powder coating and pics. I did post pics under an older format but just trying EL34's directions. They did pass the smash test which I am Happy, Happy, Happy about.

My Bench92407

My Boolits9240892409

Homemade GC trays92410

[grumman581]

Yes...........heads up..........

HF powders are on sale I believe thru Jan 20th or so.

Yellow (which does not work for us anyway) is not on sale.

I cleaned my local store out on the 31st!

banger

Did we ever get a definitive answer from someone with respect to how many bullets could be coated with a pound of powder?

[Maximumbob54]

Is that a lazy susan in a box?

[slim1836]

Is that a lazy susan in a box?

Why, yes it is. Helps to turn the tray around without knocking .45's off the smaller nuts underneath.

Slim

[Smoke4320]

I get well over a thousand 308 or 45 ACP per LB of HF red (and I coat mine kind of heavy .. usually gain about .002 dia)
started out getting less till I learned the gun and coating

[bangerjim]

Did we ever get a definitive answer from someone with respect to how many bullets could be coated with a pound of powder?

It will depend totally on your "aptness" with the gun, how you have it set/tuned-up, the cal you are coating, and how close they are together in your jig.

Wide spacing = wasted powder on the foil.

I use no more than 3/4" spacing on all boolits (9/30/38/40/45).

I have never really kept track of the boolits/pound but I know a bottle lasts for a few thousand! At $5 a pound ( and now less!!!!!) I don't really give it any consideration.

Mabe someone else more frugal than I and can tell us!

bangerjim

[slim1836]

I stopped in my HF and almost bought them out of powder coat, at 3.99 each I had to.
Seven bottles is what I got total, 2 black, 2 white, two red, and one yellow, along with a few other items. I left 3 bottles of black for someone else to get.
Should last me a while.

Slim

[prickett]

2013 - year of the ammo drought
2014 - year of the HF powder paint drought!

[kbstenberg]

I am only on page 25 but I have a question. Has it been determined the best spacing between the bullets being sprayed with PC?

[Maximumbob54]

When I made my tray I set the hex nuts on a 1" x 1" grid where the lines crossed. Setting .45's on them means they are far enough apart that I don't fat finger bump them over as I set them up. Any closer might save paint but I would be knocking them over like dominoes. I imagine that once I start doing rifle bullets it would be even worse closer together. I guess it depends on how dexterous your fingers are with small parts.

[el34]

I'm good with 1" too. Banger does his at 3/4 but that's getting into dominotown for me also. So far my range is 356 to 45.

[bangerjim]

Like el34 sez, I use no more than 3/4" for 45's and most times <5/8 for smaller. I try to get at least 50 boys on the sheet as I like to do things 50 at a time. But most of my sheets hold 8x8 or 8x9 in rows.

But it all depends on the cavity size of your oven.

banger

[MacFan]

I go 3/4 inch for 45's and 1 inch for 7.62. As mentioned long ago I coat on a plain aluminum sheet and then transfer the bullets to a NS foil covered sheet. With fresh NS foil I find it almost too slippery for transporting to the oven so now before I use it for the first time I dust the foil with a -very- light coat of PC and bake it for a couple minutes. It' still non-stick but none of my bullets slide in to each other. (I get five or six uses out of a sheet before it gets too dirty)

[fastfire]

I have found the HF red goes on thicker than the black, Has anyone else came to the same conclusion?

[bstone5]

Hello All

The picture below is of the various bullets that have been powder coated and a gas check installed. The bullets all have plain bases with a bevel.
The bullets were all cast with a Master Caster Machine that is automated.

Some of the molds I purchased new and some have been purchased from others on this web site.

It is funny the 32 ACP, small pink, bullet is the smallest at 77 grains and the 45 Colt bullet is the largest at 250 grains, I cast these bullets on the same day.

All of these bullets have been shot with good results without any lead in the barrel.

92840

[Beagle333]

bstone5, very nice!!! I really like the blue and green on the 9mm and the 40.:-D

[bangerjim]

I have found the HF red goes on thicker than the black, Has anyone else came to the same conclusion?

It seems like that. I like the black because it yields a very defined smooth profile coating. The red, white, and yellow (bad coating characteristics) tend to get real thick real fast. You do not need nearly as much as you would think.

A side note: There is absolutely ZERO definitive proof the matte black is any more abrasive on your barrel than any other color. In my book, PC is harder than the lead but softer than the Cu jackets we shoot! Just a few "doubting Thomas's" that have no proof..........just opinion.............so far. ANY real proof is always welcome!

bangerjim

[slim1836]

Just a quick question. I found some "fender washers" at Lowes that have holes perfect for my .30 cal. boolits to sit in while powder coating, however, I will need to double the washers up in order to entirely seat the gas check area. I thought about soldering them but the melting temp of solder is about 370F and I bake at 400F. Is there something else? I'd like to do this once and not have to experiment. Any suggestions?

Slim

[Beagle333]

???? Mine are not too shallow for my .30 cals..... but anyway I know that JB-Weld will take the heat. It's what I use to glue the nuts to the pan.

[slim1836]

Thanks Beagle333, I may try that, depending on any other suggestions. My washers may have been the thinner ones but I saw no others.

Slim

[el34]

???? Mine are not too shallow for my .30 cals..... but anyway I know that JB-Weld will take the heat. It's what I use to glue the nuts to the pan.

The 24hr JB is good for over 500deg, the quick-set is spec'ed at 200-something.

[slim1836]

Thanks EL34, all good info.

Slim

[el34]

Thanks EL34, all good info.

Slim
[smilie=s:

[fastfire]

For 30 cal boolits I used a 3/16 aluminum plate and a L drill bit which fit the gas check boolits perfectly.

[bangerjim]

All the washers I bought were thick and all my 223's and 30's to sit way down in...almost to the top of the GC neck. I guess different areas stock different brands of stuff.

A few may fall over if I would trip and stumble!!!!! But normal traversing from my spray Workmate to the oven is a no-spill operation.

Good luck. And try the long-cure JB as el34 suggested......amazing stuff (and member!).

banger

[fishboy]

I know you guys touched on lead hardness briefly a few pages back, but I was able to grab some lead that was collected from the gun range (pretty soft lead lead mostly recovered from jacketed bullets) and was wondering if powder coating this would be sufficient enough, or should I ad tin to the lead to harden it up a bit? I am going to cast it for .38 special and .45ACP.

Thanks,
Greg

[Beagle333]

I'm shooting range lead in my .357 and .45LC, so you are in business!
Coat and shoot! :Fire:


Shooting soft lead in handguns was my main reason for getting into PC.

[el34]

Shooting soft lead in handguns was my main reason for getting into PC.

That and that designer speckledy thing :grin:

[Beagle333]

I tell ya.... put a level teaspoon of Kawasaki Green in the HF jar with an inch and a half of any color and it's just amazing what it'll do! :wink:

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/blue-green004_zpsd61be94b.jpg

[el34]

I tell ya.... put a level teaspoon of Kawasaki Green in the HF jar with an inch and a half of any color and it's just amazing what it'll do! :wink:

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/blue-green004_zpsd61be94b.jpg

You're just having too much fun. Someday you'll get serious about making real boolits, you know, unpretty ones.

[Maximumbob54]

It isn't a problem mixing polyester powder with the HF epoxy powder when it comes to baking? The few polyester powders I tried had lower baking temps.

[fishboy]

Thanks guys

[C. Latch]

I bought this regulator:

http://www.harborfreight.com/brass-air-inline-regulator-68220.html

But haven't used it yet, my little tank has a built-in regulator and it works well enough.

I went to the hardware store the other day, then had a 200-pack of 6-32 nuts for something less than $5 after tax. Now I have to cast some more bullets so I'll have something to coat. I've already experimented on every unlubed bullet I had.

[Beagle333]

@Maximumbob54: The candy coating colors that I have used needed a lower temp. The Kawasaki green did really well at the 400 and mixed well with everything I use. I would just test a small batch at first, instead of having to re-cast a whole tray of boolits.

Note: I have not tried the green mixed in the clearer candy coats. 'Mostly with blues/darker greens.

[bangerjim]

You're just having too much fun. Someday you'll get serious about making real boolits, you know, unpretty ones.

Now that is the smooth finish I have been talking about! No matter what color, PD should cover and look like that.

Thanks for posting. I will try to get some "intimate" photos of some of my different cals & colors this weekend and throw them up here. Got a big gun show to go to Sat.

banger

[bangerjim]

That is NOT a regulator! That is a flow control valve..........just like the one on the handle of the gun.

The one you want is the one with the pressure gauge and big black know with 1/4" NPT connections, not the one for an air spray gun.

http://www.harborfreight.com/150-psi-air-compressor-regulator-kit-with-gauge-68223.html

Note it says "regulator" in the descriptions 0-150#. It is a REAL regulator with the diaphragm, orifice, and pressure sensing port (all internal) to control downstream pressure exactly where you set it.

banger

[grumman581]

If you want more precise control of your pressure than the air regulators from Harbor Freight, it is pretty easy to adapt an acetylene or CO2 regulator for use with an air system. If you really need to get accurate low pressures, these will work better since the scale often only goes up to 30 psi full deflection anyway. The various input and output ports on the regulators can usually be unscrewed and the regulator body then has a female NPT thread that you can adapt to using the quick-connect air hose fittings.

[Oreo]

Even better is a two-stage or dual-stage regulator. They maintain a much more consistent delivery pressure when the supply pressure fluctuates. High quality ones are relatively cheap on ebay too.

[MrWolf]

That Harbor Freight regulator is actually out of stock. I had ordered it with the pc machine and paint and they "refunded" that. When I called and complained, they said has been out of stock since the 1st when I ordered and have not updated the web site. I am going to try my local HF if I can get out that way.

[bangerjim]

Since so many are "trying to get by on a dime" on here, I did not even mention the acetylene regulator route. Most do not have spares of those lying around (if they even HAVE oxy-ace welding equipment at all) as they are rather expensive. Connections are left hand, so you must remove the fittings. I sure do not want to keep changing out my acetylene regs out all the time to keep from buying a simple $5.00 HF item. (and it is on sale right now. Local stores probably have them.)

But the huge bulky heavy acetylene reg sure is more awkward than that little HF dude. At least my professional sets are.

Granger even sells regulators, but you will sure pay a bunch more than HF.

The little HF reg is the way to go! :2 drunk buddies:

banger

[Maximumbob54]

I'm confused. The tank has a regulator already. I want to put another one on the end of the gun to further regulate the pressure?

[grumman581]

Since so many are "trying to get by on a dime" on here, I did not even mention the acetylene regulator route. Most do not have spares of those lying around (if they even HAVE oxy-ace welding equipment at all) as they are rather expensive. Connections are left hand, so you must remove the fittings. I sure do not want to keep changing out my acetylene regs out all the time to keep from buying a simple $5.00 HF item. (and it is on sale right now. Local stores probably have them.)

But the huge bulky heavy acetylene reg sure is more awkward than that little HF dude. At least my professional sets are.



Although the hose connections on the acetylene regulator have a left hand thread, that fitting might very well have a right hand fitting as it goes to the body of the regulator. It depends upon the manufacturer. I've seen it both ways. The CO2 regulators have a slightly higher pressure range than the acetylene, but they are still a lot less than the typical air regulator that you see at Harbor Freight. If you really need to be precise on your pressure setting, either the acetylene or CO2 regulator would be the way to go.

[MacFan]

Since so many are "trying to get by on a dime" on here...

banger

That's why I always read your posts Banger.
I have a spare argon/helium regulator, it ain't gettin' used for PCing.
Five buck pressure reg. at HF, works just fine.

[MacFan]

If you're using long, small diameter hose you'll see quite a bit of fluctuation of pressure and volume at the other end when you pull the trigger. Another regulator helps buffer that out.

[grumman581]

If you're using long, small diameter hose you'll see quite a bit of fluctuation of pressure and volume at the other end when you pull the trigger. Another regulator helps buffer that out.

Which could be a justification for having a second air tank from a converted 20-lb LPG tank plumbed into your system near the PC air gun. You could even have it setup so that it stored air at the pressure that you needed at the PC gun and the main tank hold pressure at whatever your compressor would do. Just depends upon how exact you want to be, I guess.

[MacFan]

Which could be a justification for having a second air tank from a converted 20-lb LPG tank plumbed into your system near the PC air gun. You could even have it setup so that it stored air at the pressure that you needed at the PC gun and the main tank hold pressure at whatever your compressor would do. Just depends upon how exact you want to be, I guess.

That would work.
I find now that I "feather" the trigger of the gun to control powder flow more than depending on my air setting.

[WilliamDahl]

If you were to create a "tray" that was non-conductive, but had a matrix of bolts and nuts that went through it that were electrically connected, would there be much in the way of overspray sticking to the surface or would all the powder be attracted to the bullets?

I'm curious if a "tray" could be made out of a piece of ceramic tile / travertine stone with holes drilled it it for the bolts with the nuts on the bottom. A small gauge wire could be run between the nuts on the underside to electrically connect them all.

[Beagle333]

If you forget to step on the pedal..... ALL of the powder settles on the non-conductive (at this point) tray, not just what bypasses the attractive boolits. So unless you could somehow make the boolits attractive enough to catch it all.... it's still going to coat the tray. I think gravity is still stronger than the attraction. The powder that touches the boolits won't fall off, due to static, but I don't think it's going to migrate sideways very far as it falls.

[WilliamDahl]

Will a steel wire brush on an angle grinder easily remove the powder coating from steel that has been powder coated? If so, you just create a steel tray with the elevated bolt heads and then periodically touch the tops of the bolt heads with the wire brush in the angle grinder to clean them up. The tray could then be made from expanded metal and most of the excess powder would fall through.

Just trying to think up a way where powder could be reclaimed if so desired.

[bangerjim]

Will a steel wire brush on an angle grinder easily remove the powder coating from steel that has been powder coated? If so, you just create a steel tray with the elevated bolt heads and then periodically touch the tops of the bolt heads with the wire brush in the angle grinder to clean them up. The tray could then be made from expanded metal and most of the excess powder would fall through.

Just trying to think up a way where powder could be reclaimed if so desired.

At the cost of HF powder, recovery is a waste of time and effort. Besides, if your gun and technique are tuned up, you will not have that much waste. As I have stated in the past several times, after doing 400-500 boolits, I may have a waste of <1/8 tsp of powder! Not worth messing with.

That is why we use non-stick foil OVER whatever platform you want to use for setting the boolits on. Having to grind all those nuts after every coat or two is a waste of time. (could be shooting!)

Just put a sheet of the foil over the tray, press it over the shapes you are using, and set the booits on it.

Foil gets coated with 2-3 sprays......take it off, throw it away, and repeat process.

That foil is NOT THAT costly!!!!!!!!!

banger

[danr]

hello everyone, i've begun powder coating my own as well. after shooting a few and checking the results, i was fairly impressed. now i'm planning to do some loads for jacketed. then i began thinking more in the direction of treating them as jacketed. with that said, i did a little test with my powder coated projectiles, and tossed some into my lead melting pot to see just what kind of temps freight harbor powders can deal with. i was impressed to see that the lead melted right out of the powder coat, and the powder coat didn't melt or burn. but this raised some questions at the same time.

when sizing your powder coated projectiles, do you size them for cast or jacketed and why?

if they can be treated as jacketed projectiles, they can handle the heat, then why size them as cast .001 over?

really, this powder coating stands to put swaging out as old tech if it really can hold up to higher pressures. then i kinda wonder what they do on impact. maybe its time to break out the ballistics gel?

thanks,
Dan

[Russel Nash]

@ Dan, just doing an image google search, I found this:

http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/colorbullets03.jpg

and this:

http://s14.postimg.org/5wg05qpoh/Fired_Group.jpg

Some of hollow point mould group buy threads might have pictures of their hollow points shot into wet phone books or into a 55 gallon barrel filled with water.

I have been wondering about the swaging thing too. What kinda accuracy are the swaging guys getting??? Isn't there a thread here in this section where some dude wants to see sub 2 inch groups fired at 2,900 fps?

To do swaging right, it appears there is a huge step up in a financial investment equipment wise. Not to mention all the steps involved, which = time.

No offense to BTSniper, et al, but converting brass shell casings of one caliber into bullets for another caliber has always made me do this:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/2071746/spock-eyebrow-raise-o.gif

[N1YDP]

i know it has been asked before,should you,size,powder coat and size again?

[danr]

yes Russel, swaging does take ALLOT of time. we just finished our first round of tests with pistol calibers and powder coating, and my best response i can say is "OMG" the results where extremely impressive. we pushed 45 acp's to their limits with powder coated projectiles and saw some fantastic accuracy, and no leading at all. we recovered projectiles and powder coating was still intact. we also noticed LESS pressure signs at mag level loads than what we seen for jacketed, factory and home swaged.

we also swaged some powder coated projectiles, so that we could do an apples to apples comparison of home swaged projectiles and powder coated. even after powder coating, then swaging, then firing, the powder coating still remained on the projectiles, and we saw less high pressure signs on the cases with powder coating. we where simply amazed.

the amount of work it takes to powder coat is NIL compared to swaging.

with all this said, and saying it is like shooting myself in the foot as a swage die manufacture, powder coating stands to put swaging out to the curb side as old tech.

we powder coated with a Freight harbor $68 gun and powder, and used a walmart $15 oven, we where able to powder coat and bake 100 rounds in 30 minutes. only about 5 minutes of that was prep and powder. the rest of the time was sitting around waiting for the timer bell to go "DING" and tell us the baking was done. we also noticed that when we sized powder coated bullets, it was MUCH easier to size, less pressure was needed to push the bullets through, and it seemed like they didn't size. yet using the calipers on the 45's before sizing they where .461, and after .451, they where in fact sizing.

we also powder coated 380, 38's, and 40's. we had better accuracy with these calibers with unrefined loads than we have had with refined loads that we have.

all i can say, is OMG.

because of this, i'm re-inventing Kaine Dies and its products to help support people who want to start powder coating. we are working on building up some inexpensive kits for starters, and some advanced kits for the pro's. we are also working on documentation and instructions to go along with it. maybe some video's as well.

here is a sample loads we fired with great success.
45acp, powder coated sized to .451, 200 grain projectile, cci large pistol primer, 5.5 grains of red dot. pressure signs just started to show, we only had a slight primer flattening. fantastic accuracy, we where hitting a 3inch by 4 inch plate at about 45 to 50 yards away.

380 acp, 92 grain projectile, sized to .355, winchester small pistol primers, 2grains of red dot, great accuracy, little pressure signs.

40acp, 175 grain projectile, sized to .400, cci small pistol primer, 3.2 grains of reddot, Fantastic accuracy, no high pressure signs.

38 spl, 158 grain projectile, sized to .357, cci small pistol primers, 3 grains of reddot, Fantastic accuracy, no high pressure signs. we also noticed with this one, that the cases ejected very easily from the cylinder. much easier than normal.

we also found that it was better to size projectiles first, then powder coat, then size again, this helped prevent cracking of the powder coat for heavy coats. our spray technique wasn't anything professional, more of spray a bunch of powder on them, nothing special. we ran our gun with a secondary regulator set to 20psi when at full trigger pull. we also used tin foil for a base, and sat the projectiles nose up. so the bases where not powder coated. yet all recovered projectiles had 0 deformation of the bases.

[danr]

we also have a facebook group for powder coating if anyone wants to pop over there and look at some pics and see what some other people are doing.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/492980787487418/

[Beagle333]

Excellent report, danr! :-D The way I read it, you definitely reinforced the pro's of ESPC.
Easy to apply, no leading, shoots like jacketed, sizes easier, and there is no need for coating the bases.
Powdercoating is the future, no matter how you get it on the boolit. 8-)

[danr]

everyone here at Kaine Dies, are ecstatic over the results. we are working on doing some rifle caliber tests here real soon. we cant wait to see how they do when pushed to the limits. we are planning tests for 224, 243, 308, 6mm, 7mm, and 8mm.

we are also working with one of our customers to have some tested in a 308 Norma Mag to really push them to the limits.

we should have the 224 rifles testing sometime in next week or the week after. we plan to do a full day of testing 224's. we are planning to have 2 different rifles, one 224, and the other a 5.56 nato rifle. cant wait to see if anything ends up in the gas blocks or gas tubes. or the barrels for that matter.


Excellent report, danr! :-D The way I read it, you definitely reinforced the pro's of ESPC.
Easy to apply, no leading, shoots like jacketed, sizes easier, and there is no need for coating the bases.
Powdercoating is the future, no matter how you get it on the boolit. 8-)

[N1YDP]

yes Russel, swaging does take ALLOT of time. we just finished our first round of tests with pistol calibers and powder coating, and my best response i can say is "OMG" the results where extremely impressive. we pushed 45 acp's to their limits with powder coated projectiles and saw some fantastic accuracy, and no leading at all. we recovered projectiles and powder coating was still intact. we also noticed LESS pressure signs at mag level loads than what we seen for jacketed, factory and home swaged.

we also swaged some powder coated projectiles, so that we could do an apples to apples comparison of home swaged projectiles and powder coated. even after powder coating, then swaging, then firing, the powder coating still remained on the projectiles, and we saw less high pressure signs on the cases with powder coating. we where simply amazed.

the amount of work it takes to powder coat is NIL compared to swaging.

with all this said, and saying it is like shooting myself in the foot as a swage die manufacture, powder coating stands to put swaging out to the curb side as old tech.

we powder coated with a Freight harbor $68 gun and powder, and used a walmart $15 oven, we where able to powder coat and bake 100 rounds in 30 minutes. only about 5 minutes of that was prep and powder. the rest of the time was sitting around waiting for the timer bell to go "DING" and tell us the baking was done. we also noticed that when we sized powder coated bullets, it was MUCH easier to size, less pressure was needed to push the bullets through, and it seemed like they didn't size. yet using the calipers on the 45's before sizing they where .461, and after .451, they where in fact sizing.

we also powder coated 380, 38's, and 40's. we had better accuracy with these calibers with unrefined loads than we have had with refined loads that we have.

all i can say, is OMG.

because of this, i'm re-inventing Kaine Dies and its products to help support people who want to start powder coating. we are working on building up some inexpensive kits for starters, and some advanced kits for the pro's. we are also working on documentation and instructions to go along with it. maybe some video's as well.

here is a sample loads we fired with great success.
45acp, powder coated sized to .451, 200 grain projectile, cci large pistol primer, 5.5 grains of red dot. pressure signs just started to show, we only had a slight primer flattening. fantastic accuracy, we where hitting a 3inch by 4 inch plate at about 45 to 50 yards away.

380 acp, 92 grain projectile, sized to .355, winchester small pistol primers, 2grains of red dot, great accuracy, little pressure signs.

40acp, 175 grain projectile, sized to .400, cci small pistol primer, 3.2 grains of reddot, Fantastic accuracy, no high pressure signs.

38 spl, 158 grain projectile, sized to .357, cci small pistol primers, 3 grains of reddot, Fantastic accuracy, no high pressure signs. we also noticed with this one, that the cases ejected very easily from the cylinder. much easier than normal.

we also found that it was better to size projectiles first, then powder coat, then size again, this helped prevent cracking of the powder coat for heavy coats. our spray technique wasn't anything professional, more of spray a bunch of powder on them, nothing special. we ran our gun with a secondary regulator set to 20psi when at full trigger pull. we also used tin foil for a base, and sat the projectiles nose up. so the bases where not powder coated. yet all recovered projectiles had 0 deformation of the bases.

did you mean,40 s&w?

[lka]

I'm sure he did, he also got my attention on this subject, **** now another project coming soon to my garage lol

[N1YDP]

i have been using 5.5gr of red dot with cast 145gr fn, powder coated.i have some 180 gr jhp i want to load with red dot.maybe i will start with 3gr.

[C. Latch]

danr,

Did you do any apples-to-apples velocity testing?

It's already a foregone conclusion for me that I will PC every .38 and .357 and .45 ACP bullet that I cast for plinking, but for hunting loads, where velocity is something of a factor.....well, the jury's still out there. I have sized and shot some PCs but while they 'feel' slick, I don't think they'll match the velocity of a lubed cast bullet.

Time will tell.

[dverna]

danr,

Thanks for the report. One thing, .224's are tough little things to get to shoot accurately. And accuracy is important. Start with the larger bores and walk before you run.

Do not fall into the trap of "prudy bullets" and "no leading". There are hundreds of reports on that aspect of coated bullets. The quest is for accuracy.

And rifles will be much more of a challenge than fist sized pistol groups at 50 yards.

Again, great report and I look forward to your next installment.

Don Verna

[kbstenberg]

For those doing the piglet method. If I am not in a hurry can I let them dry/cure overnight? rather than lighting them on fire.

[Beagle333]

Mine will dry and be oven-ready in about 10 minutes. I use lacquer thinner and it doesn't last long, even in the HP's.
I'd imagine with a small fan, they'd be ready in 5 minutes. 8-) That stuff is pretty volatile.

[C. Latch]

I did some more ESPC this afternoon.

I cast the bullets yesterday and coated today, then loaded a few this afternoon.

To test in the hopefully near future, I have three loads:

-a light load with a lee 452-255-rf; I have some with PC (HF red/black mix) and some with conventional lube to test
-a heavier load; a 300-grain WFN-type bullet over a whole lot of 2400; I loaded some with PC bullets and some with some lithi-bee I made.
-another heavy load with the same bullet and 21.4 grains of VV N110; again, some with PC, some with lube.

I also loaded up some blasting ammo for the .38 and a small handful of the 452-255s in .45 ACP. I used a light load of 700-x there; I do not like how deeply that bullet has to seat into the case.

Hopefully I'll get to shoot some this coming weekend and chronograph some of those loads with PC and conventional lube side by side.

[N1YDP]

anyone tried bullets rolled in automotive anamal paint then baked?

[N1YDP]

did some powder coating with hf gun.flat black,baked,sized then gold paint and baked.
1st one was sized.nothing came off
2nd one was not

[bangerjim]

anyone tried bullets rolled in automotive anamal paint then baked?

I have played with VHT Hi-temp spray-on auto epoxy. Yes it works, but is very expensive, takes a long time to dry/cure. Testing the next day showed the stuff wast still "soft" and would not pass hammer or scratch test. THREE (3) days later, it finaly passed the test. Not a viable alternate to ESPC in my book.

Just baking-on standard emamel paint is not the same thing. Epoxies and powders form molecular bonds with themselves and the base (lead) to provide adherance and performance.

Paint just dries!!!!!!


ESPC is much faster and at at fraction of the cost!!!!!!

bangerjim

[AverageJoe]

It's has been awhile since I checked on here...wow 95 pages. Took forever to catch up. I have been PC'ing since the early threads and still is the best option for me. I slugged my barrel with soft lead to find out my true barrel dia. Now I cast, PC, and size after PC to .001 over barrel dia. The results are amazing...fast, accurate, no leading, no smoke.

[Maximumbob54]

Near max loads with Hodgdon's data for Longshot in the .40SW with a 180gr PC'ed Lee TL401-175-TC:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20140120_112646636_zpsobhb2skh.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20140120_112646636_zpsobhb2skh.jpg.html)

Leading in the bore: NONE

[bangerjim]

It's has been awhile since I checked on here...wow 95 pages. Took forever to catch up. I have been PC'ing since the early threads and still is the best option for me. I slugged my barrel with soft lead to find out my true barrel dia. Now I cast, PC, and size after PC to .001 over barrel dia. The results are amazing...fast, accurate, no leading, no smoke.

Welcome back!

We need more reports like yours to negate the "doubting Thomas's" about how bad PC is.

You are getting the same results I am!

banger

[bangerjim]

Near max loads with Hodgdon's data for Longshot in the .40SW with a 180gr PC'ed Lee TL401-175-TC:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20140120_112646636_zpsobhb2skh.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20140120_112646636_zpsobhb2skh.jpg.html)

Leading in the bore: NONE

Excellent!

I am starting to push the envelope on loads also and have not seen any problems. One recent thread on here bemoans "dirt" in the bore from PC. I really think he is seeing unburned powder or other combustion residues, as many of the replies point out. Even with almost whisper loads, I see no grime in the bores, which with grease lubes is next to impossible!
And no PC remnants either. I have never recovered any because I cannot, but some on here fortunate to shoot into a berm have seen excellent adhesion on the spent rounds.

Keep up the good work!

banger

[Maximumbob54]

I do sometimes get unburned powder residue in the bore. Over and over I keep thinking about pushing them harder with jacketed load data. The few times I've tried it have been magic but I just have no idea what kind of pressure I'm pushing by doing it. If the Hornady XTP runs a thousandth over normal size then maybe I am worrying over nothing. I know they have a thinner than usual jacket to make up for the pressure and this is what makes them so hyper accurate. I keep trying to think of these in the same way but I also don't like to play with fire as my luck usually gets me burned.

[a.squibload]

Adhesion on recovered PC boolits: I found one today, almost no PC left on it
(after it crashed into a steel target, that is). Only a disc of lead left but it
had some PC on it. Was not willing to dig into the berm to find 'em but maybe
next time.

I wanted to say thanks to whoever mentioned dry-tumbling, might as well
put it here. My solvent attempts almost made me give up on PC, too lumpy
and some boolits would just fly off course, maybe 6 feet off at 50 yards.
Dry tumble makes a smooth even coating of powder, excess powder falls off
with a tap of the hemostats (tweezers, pliers) on the side of the can but the
boolit remains evenly powdered. Baking makes it flow together I guess 'cause
they came out real smooth, even the base gets a nice coat.
(Maybe not as nice as those hotrod boolits but I think they were waxed at a body shop!)
I took a pic but it wasn't that great, will try again. Need to load & shoot 'em...

PS: using non-stick foil, the entire boolit gets coated, even the base.
Boolits come off the foil easily. Tried screen before, left a pattern on the base,
probably not good.

[AverageJoe]

Just to give more info on accuracy, these are my 240gr .44mag that I made and tested for hunting this year. I casted, PC'd, sized the .001 over my barrel dia (I slugged with soft lead prior). I did put on a GC due to not testing without at the time. Here is my results out of a Marlin Lever Action .44 mag with the micro-grooves at 50 yards using 3 diff amounts of H-110. So again, just my opinion, but PC works very well for me. This PC is a translucent orange, for hunting of course.....and no, I never even saw a buck. I was ready for him though.

And leading at all

[Beagle333]

My compressor is down and I needed to get about 500 ready to load this week, so I ran the MP358156s through the Star and dry tumbled the NOE 360175s. 8-)
This was HF red, but there was still some Liftow blue and a dusting of light green in there, so it gave it speckles. (and in some spots....... blue splotches.) This is the only way to tumble lube! :wink:

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/360160006_zpsfc8d16c1.jpg

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/360160007_zps3563fbba.jpg

[BretJ]

I am surprised someone has not looked into manufacturing an ES powdercoat specifically for bullets. One with less abrasive and more lubricity. Something that can handle higher velocity. Just a random thought.....

[bangerjim]

I am surprised someone has not looked into manufacturing an ES powdercoat specifically for bullets. One with less abrasive and more lubricity. Something that can handle higher velocity. Just a random thought.....

It's called PTFE.......illegal in MOST states! Check your regs. It is readily available on-line.

banger

[sparky45]

I have a couple of questions:
One; has anyone tried shooting PC'd with BP?
Two; has anyone PC'd with a "clear" ?
Thanks;
Sparky

[Beagle333]

I have a couple of questions:
Two; has anyone PC'd with a "clear" ?


Post #375
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?209151-Powder-Coating-101-Electrostatic-Method/page19

[el34]

Looks like clear over purple lead.
We didn't get to find out if there was anything unusual about them, probably not.

[MacFan]

Looks like clear over purple lead.
We didn't get to find out if there was anything unusual about them, probably not.

Those were my clear PC'd 7.62's... forgot all about reporting back. The color in the pic is from natural light in a light blue room.
I ended up shooting around 100 rounds with no build up, no leading. Accuracy was as good as I get with anything else in an indoor range @ 25 and 50 yards with iron sights. Waiting on warmer weather to get outside.
If people are worried about pigments wearing barrels or higher baking temps softening lead, clear is a good option.
Like I said, I needed clear for another project, it's very boring on bullets.

[bangerjim]

Thx for the report!

I'll have to get some of the stuff and play around. If someone is worried about matte black eating thier gun, they could top coat with this clear!

Thanks!

banger

[N1YDP]

im going to try some reflective chrome

[N1YDP]

just powder coated reflective chrome,cast,145gr, 40s&w

[Beagle333]

Now that's spiffy.... and unusual! I like! 8-)

[sparky45]

Wow! Nice N1YDP. Gotta get me some a that!!

[bangerjim]

just powder coated reflective chrome,cast,145gr, 40s&w

Watch out Lone Ranger....................N1YDP is a-commin' up behind!

Cool look. I need to do some in 38SPL and load in nickel and I will be all set!

banger

[Smoke4320]

bring the bling !

[N1YDP]

ya,i thought they would look cool! now to see how they shoot

[Smoke4320]

Firing instructions for chrome bullets
extend right arm up at 45 degrees... tilt gun 90 degrees to left and then down 15 degrees
place left foot forward..push right arm forward quickly and jerk trigger

[dverna]

Firing instructions for chrome bullets
extend right arm up at 45 degrees... tilt gun 90 degrees to left and then down 15 degrees
place left foot forward..push right arm forward quickly and jerk trigger

Medications and alcohol are not a good combination.

Maybe a picture would assist in understanding.

Don Verna

[bangerjim]

If you haven't seen what I discovered about HF matte black, go here http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?228034-NEW-quot-scientific-quot-info-on-HF-black-being-abrasive.

I found a box of 500+ 38's that I sprayed back in June with the 1st bottle and they did not pass my finger test.

So, rather than re-melting all those good slugs, I decided to try some dry tumble (YES dry tumble!) on them. They turned out kinda kinky...reminds me of a bloodstone ring I had as a kid.

94503

Dry tumble, although gives a pretty smooth coverage with one coat, does allow some of the black to show thru a bit. That would be lead on an uncoated boolit. But the effect is really interesting! Just threw them in a coolwhip container 50 at a time with some red and a bit of yellow and swirled them around until covered as best they would. The matte really lets the powder stick. Baked for 10 and sized.

Anyway, just another way (if you are concerned about the black "eating your gun") to salvage all that casting work. They sized beautifully!

bangerjim

[N1YDP]

six silver bullets ready to be tested

[tiwimon]

six silver bullets ready to be tested

^^ Those look awesome, cannot wait for a range report

[StromBusa]

Great thread, waiting for my Harbor Freight order :-D

I have a problem, I cannot slug my barrel because the dealer is holding My 9" AAC for the tax stamp... do you guys size like jacketed, or size like lead?

I want to order a sizing die but I don't know to get .309, .311, .312. I searched around and too big is a problem with feeding 300 BLK, not sure if too small is an issue with the powder coatings...I would really like to complete order @ Midway with the sizing die... waits kill me... I'm used to lead, & want to slug, but I'd also like to have some PC black beauties ready to warm it up when the stamp comes through. Any advice? I suppose I could go small & ream the die, but I want to make a solid calculation & get some loads made up.

[AverageJoe]

StromBusa...I size mine .001/.0015 over my barrel dia (slugged), so it really depends on your barrel. I'd wait till you get it and start the right way. I also would recommend you season your barrel with jacketed, before going through all the powder coat sizing. Just my 2 cents.

[xacex]

I tried .311 in two of my blackouts. One would feed intermittently, and the other one wouldn't feet them at all. Both would feed .309, and one was intermittent with .310. With the Lee options I would go with a .309. It depends on the barrel, but I have CMMG 8.5" barrel that does not like anything larger than .309.

[StromBusa]

I tried .311 in two of my blackouts. One would feed intermittently, and the other one wouldn't feet them at all. Both would feed .309, and one was intermittent with .310. With the Lee options I would go with a .309. It depends on the barrel, but I have CMMG 8.5" barrel that does not like anything larger than .309.

.309 scares me, but then I am a complete newb to the PC thing. Average Joe.. I loaded like 160 jacketed 125's to warm it up... The way backorders can take years worries me. I'd like to gamble on a die and complete my checkout for the mold. I guess If I go small I can always ream it out & grind a new pin. I use RCBS lube sizer. I guess that would be a .309, sounds small for lead, but then this PC is a new deal... Xacex, since the .309 fed in your guns, did you see any leading (& were you using gas checks?)? Thanks for the feedback guys!

[bangerjim]

.309 scares me, but then I am a complete newb to the PC thing. Average Joe.. I loaded like 160 jacketed 125's to warm it up... The way backorders can take years worries me. I'd like to gamble on a die and complete my checkout for the mold. I guess If I go small I can always ream it out & grind a new pin. I use RCBS lube sizer. I guess that would be a .309, sounds small for lead, but then this PC is a new deal... Xacex, since the .309 fed in your guns, did you see any leading (& were you using gas checks?)? Thanks for the feedback guys!

If you are concerned about sizes, skip using your expensive lubra-matic with dies and by the inexpensive Lee sizing dies for the sizes around where you think you will be. Last time I bought one is was $18 and included that dreaded bottle of LLA.

banger

[N1YDP]

silver bullets shoot great.i will have to take some pics of the target.

[Oreo]

Wait till you have the barrel in hand and can take proper measurements before buying size dependent tools. This is a case of "the best things to those who wait."

[StromBusa]

Wait till you have the barrel in hand and can take proper measurements before buying size dependent tools. This is a case of "the best things to those who wait."

Good advice, however, when I do get to slug the barrel (November..) I will still be wondering if I need to size on the plus side like for lead/lube, or go smaller like with jacketed Ø's , it's the feed factor as well.
I like to do as much in advance as I can given the ten month tax stamp delay...

[StromBusa]

If you are concerned about sizes, skip using your expensive lubra-matic with dies and by the inexpensive Lee sizing dies for the sizes around where you think you will be. Last time I bought one is was $18 and included that dreaded bottle of LLA.

banger Excellent, I guess for accuracy I should try a few Ø's anyway, & I can use by buddies Lee set up, then spring for the winner for the RCBS . Good Thinking!

[bangerjim]

Excellent, I guess for accuracy I should try a few Ø's anyway, & I can use by buddies Lee set up, then spring for the winner for the RCBS . Good Thinking!

Excellent! Hope I saved you some coin!

banger

[Smoke4320]

Heres something to think about .. you can cast/ powdercoat and size to 312 now
if your barrel turns out to need 309 to 311 you can just resize then .. Nothing will be harmed ..
I have actually sized down (after powdercoating and waiting 3 weeks) from 460 all the way to 452 and bullets shot great
at least you would be ahead on the bullet supply

[StromBusa]

Heres something to think about .. you can cast/ powdercoat and size to 312 now
if your barrel turns out to need 309 to 311 you can just resize then .. Nothing will be harmed ..
I have actually sized down (after powdercoating and waiting 3 weeks) from 460 all the way to 452 and bullets shot great
at least you would be ahead on the bullet supply

Good to know, thanks...I can have them ready to stuff.... or to resize & stuff. Note to self: do not stuff in cases...

[xacex]

.309 scares me, but then I am a complete newb to the PC thing. Average Joe.. I loaded like 160 jacketed 125's to warm it up... The way backorders can take years worries me. I'd like to gamble on a die and complete my checkout for the mold. I guess If I go small I can always ream it out & grind a new pin. I use RCBS lube sizer. I guess that would be a .309, sounds small for lead, but then this PC is a new deal... Xacex, since the .309 fed in your guns, did you see any leading (& were you using gas checks?)? Thanks for the feedback guys!

I have not got any leading with P/C at .309 which is larger than bore diameter, but I am using gas checks. You will have to play around with size to see what fits your gun.The 300 blk that will feed anything most of the time doesn't care what the size is from .311, to .309 as far as accuracy goes. I do water quench after P/C, and am now adding copper to my alloy.
When I was trying traditional lubes, then the Recluse 45/45/10 at .309 I did get leading with the lee 230 blk boolit, and 9mm sized to .357. Not any more with P/C. The trouble of powder coating is a lot less of a hassle than cleaning lead out of a barrel.

[StromBusa]

I have not got any leading with P/C at .309 which is larger than bore diameter, but I am using gas checks. You will have to play around with size to see what fits your gun.The 300 blk that will feed anything most of the time doesn't care what the size is from .311, to .309 as far as accuracy goes. I do water quench after P/C, and am now adding copper to my alloy.
When I was trying traditional lubes, then the Recluse 45/45/10 at .309 I did get leading with the lee 230 blk boolit, and 9mm sized to .357. Not any more with P/C. The trouble of powder coating is a lot less of a hassle than cleaning lead out of a barrel.

Thanks for the information...them pics of your 300's in black had me clicking away @ HF in no time..I am on a new quest! I got a mail from HF today...powder coater gun & regulator & powder has shipped! I missed out on the group buy of the hollow pointed & gas checked molds <125's>. It's all good & I am going to have some fun!

[xacex]

Be cautious with the H/F black. There may be a problem with it. I would use only gloss colors unless you shoot infrequently.

[bangerjim]

Be cautious with the H/F black. There may be a problem with it. I would use only gloss colors unless you shoot infrequently.

There is still no definitive proof of this. There are hundreds on here using black and there are no reports of anyone's gun "being eaten alive" by matte black HF PC.

I use black (the newer stuff) with no problems. And will continue using it, along with many other colors. Some on here, who will not spring for the measly $50 ES gun, bemoan the black simply because it will not work with DT. It is the sharpest looking coating out there!

But, please, make your own determination on usage. The jury is still out. This is a relative new "science" for all of us and only Father Time will have the final say.

But, by all means, HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!! [smilie=w:

bangerjim

[prickett]

I use black (the newer stuff) with no problems. And will continue using it, along with many other colors. Some on here, who will not spring for the measly $50 ES gun, bemoan the black simply because it will not work with DT. It is the sharpest looking coating out there!


Have you tried to dry coat with the "newer stuff" HF black? I'm curious whether it'll now work for dry coat.

[bangerjim]

Have you tried to dry coat with the "newer stuff" HF black? I'm curious whether it'll now work for dry coat.

I am out of town on business now but when I get back next week, I plan on opening up a bottle of it and trying both methods for comparison. Will advise results.

B4 I left, I checked some 45's I did "back when" and they were that "rough" feel also. There was something about that 1st bottle back in June-July that did it. Those are the ones I am re-coating with DT red.

banger

[StromBusa]

maybe you guys still had toast crumbs in the ovens? :guntootsmiley:

I hope I dont end up fire lapping my barrel, I will do a short run & the "finger test"...I want that black look for the blackout.

[xacex]

maybe you guys still had toast crumbs in the ovens? :guntootsmiley:

I hope I dont end up fire lapping my barrel, I will do a short run & the "finger test"...I want that black look for the blackout.

I still have some rounds loaded that were coated with HF black, and I will still shoot them. Depending on where you are at you could coat with the Teflon black they sell on ebay. I don't think you will get any wear using that powder, but certain places will lock you up for them.

[StromBusa]

I found some low friction Teflon here, not sure if anyone tried it yet, they also have a very pricey "Hi temp" version for headers & such.
allpowderpaints.com

[russs]

those are some mighty pretty bullets, I can't wait to try PC.

[Rhino77]

Joined the forum 2 years ago and read it regularly. I never have taken the time to post until now. I am amazed at the quality and variety of information available on this site. I originally found the site while looking for bullet swaging information. Powder coating bullets really intrigues me and I will have to give it a shot at some point. I am especially interested in .30 cal. bullets.

[slim1836]

I also am looking forward to try powder coating for my Tikka .308 and Mosin Nagant.
Slim


Joined the forum 2 years ago and read it regularly. I never have taken the time to post until now. I am amazed at the quality and variety of information available on this site. I originally found the site while looking for bullet swaging information. Powder coating bullets really intrigues me and I will have to give it a shot at some point. I am especially interested in .30 cal. bullets.

[bangerjim]

Joined the forum 2 years ago and read it regularly. I never have taken the time to post until now. I am amazed at the quality and variety of information available on this site. I originally found the site while looking for bullet swaging information. Powder coating bullets really intrigues me and I will have to give it a shot at some point. I am especially interested in .30 cal. bullets.

Don't think.......DO!!!!!!!!!! HA.....ha. (sorry....I sound like our "buddy"...Don't boo....vote)

I ESPC my 30-06's all the time. I do not shoot them at full jacketed loads, but at lower plinking loads. Some on here are getting up to very high rifle velocities with good success. I would rely on GC's! Period! (ooooops.....sorry again!)

But do not be afraid to try it. It is very easy and results are amazing. I just hated messing around with greasy lubes, concocting them over smoldering pots, and getting them to stick to the boolits right.

Have fun!!!!!!!!!! [smilie=w:

bangerjim :guntootsmiley:

[xacex]

My Mosin like P/C boolits. I have been shooting 125 grain hollow points with 13 grains of red dot. With a scout scope set up it sure is a fun load. I have not done any real accuracy testing because it is accurate enough for clays and jugs at 100 yard. To much fun to stop and put them on paper.

[StromBusa]

My Mosin like P/C boolits. I have been shooting 125 grain hollow points with 13 grains of red dot. With a scout scope set up it sure is a fun load. I have not done any real accuracy testing because it is accurate enough for clays and jugs at 100 yard. To much fun to stop and put them on paper.

I have a 444 marlin with a scout scope s/u. Can't wait to PC some of them 444's. Fun gun. Ghost ring w/quick detach scout.

[russs]

95440Here is my first attempt to HF PC red my bullets. I dry sized the bullets tumbled them in HF PC red, dumped them on a tray and baked them at 400*F for 20 minutes. There were some screen marks so I PC'd them again and cooked them again but my tray was not flat and they layed together. I separated them when they came out of the oven but some stuck together. I re-sized the front group the next day ,no problem with the powder coat coming off. I think I may try aluminum foil coating the tray with a light spray of silicone spray for the next group.

[bangerjim]

DO NOT under any circumstances use ANYTHING like silicon or pam as a release agent. I have tried it and it wicks up on the boolits and prevents any powder from sticking!

Silicon is the worst thing you can have on any surface you put a coating on. Paint, lacquer, varnish, powder........all will not stick with even the slightest trace of silicon!

Just use non stick foil.....NOT the standard stuff. Amazing stuff. I get 3-4 coats B4 I have to replace it.

Be warned. From lots of experience!

bangerjim

[russs]

Thanks Bangerjim,
I was thinking I would spray the foil not the bullets, tumble coat the bullets then dump them on the sprayed foil after coating the bullets,then cook. I didn't think it would wick into the PC before baking.
I will take your advice and get some non stick foil instead.
Russs

[Beagle333]

It will definitely wick up during baking. Not just before. Once it gets hot, it flows everywhere, even up a boolit. [smilie=1:

[C. Latch]

It will definitely wick up during baking. Not just before. Once it gets hot, it flows everywhere, even up a boolit. [smilie=1:
Even my thick 'lithi-bee' lube did so. Put a dab on the very bottom of a bullet and when you're finished baking the entire gas check shank is uncoated. It's pretty hard to precisely control, too.

As a side note......in regard to the use of nuts as spacers to sit the bullets on, other than cosmetics, is there any reason you couldn't sit the bullets nose-down on the nuts and have incomplete coverage of the meplat (like the partially covered bases in the pictures above) in exchange for a perfect base/band coat? It might not be pretty, but if it worked and didn't hinder accuracy, so what?

[popper]

Latch I tried that but you really have to watch the ridge buildup on the nose, wouldn't chamber on some.

[Beagle333]

is there any reason you couldn't sit the bullets nose-down on the nuts and have incomplete coverage of the meplat (like the partially covered bases in the pictures above) in exchange for a perfect base/band coat? It might not be pretty, but if it worked and didn't hinder accuracy, so what?




It would work, ...... and if you can move a tray of boolits stood nose-down on some little nuts without toppling at least 90% of them, I'd salute you! :wink: [smilie=l:
But yes, you can do it that way if you can pull it off. The nose, nor the base need be coated. Only the sides where they contact the barrel. Either way, nose down or base down, and you still get a good coat all the way to the bottom of the driving bands, you're good! :-D

Now, as for standing the boolits with the nose down inside the nut, does exactly as Popper said... makes a ridge that will definitely be a hindrance to straight flight, if it will even load.

[Beagle333]

I tried standing some down inside some larger nuts in the beginning. The boolits on the right show what is under the foil.
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/HF002_zpsb5864f7b.jpg

But the PC wicked down into the foil and made a mess of the nose.
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/HF007_zpsc1f98f2c.jpg

[prickett]

I separated them when they came out of the oven but some stuck together. I re-sized the front group the next day ,no problem with the powder coat coming off. I think I may try aluminum foil coating the tray with a light spray of silicone spray for the next group.

If you shake the tray immediately after removing from the oven (i.e. while still 400F), they break apart very easily and don't tend to leave marks.

[Oreo]

Nose down with hollow points on silicone-rubber coated metal posts. Boolits go nowhere till you want them to, and the bases get a uniform coat.

[popper]

Nose down is how I did pistol T/C boolits - works great. Nose actually got covered down to meplat and seater die got rid of ridge problems. Still have a bunch loaded but I'm using HiTek now. Nose down mounted in some 9mm cases was what I tried for rifle - not so good. They shot OK when they didn't cause chambering problems. They were the RD311, big meplat.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I just ordered some Super Durable Wet Black from Powder By the Pound. Anyone try some of their super durable paints yet?

[prickett]

Make sure to update http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?226662-Definitive-List-What-powders-work-and-what-powders-don-t with the results of your Super Durable Web Black tests please.

[C. Latch]

Are any of the other powders cheaper than HF?

[Maximumbob54]

Are any of the other powders cheaper than HF?

None yet I've found but All Powder Paints does have some that aren't far off if you order them in serious bulk. I'm looking at one that if I order 50# of it then it's less than $7 and I would have powder for a goooood long time. I'm going to order a pound of it first to test it though.

http://www.allpowderpaints.com/

They do have some nifty colors but all the powders I've tested so far pretty much all work the same if you get the coverage well enough. The ES gun of course works on all of them but not that many I've tried do the dry or wet tumble as well as the HF black wet and the HF red dry.

[Oreo]

Is there any sign that polyester or polyurethane powders work better then the other?

I even saw an "acrylic" powder. it was a clear for car rims. Anyone know if that would be any good?

[bangerjim]

Are any of the other powders cheaper than HF?

Not unless somebody dies and leaves it to you in their will.

banger

[doctorggg]

I'm looking for the same answer as Oreo "Is there any sign that polyester or polyurethane powders work better then the other?

I even saw an "acrylic" powder. it was a clear for car rims. Anyone know if that would be any good?"

[AverageJoe]

I just got some clear polyester powder coat in the mail yesterday, I coated some tonight and will test in a day or 2. I will post my results.

Here is the specs: SUPER DURABLE HIGH GLOSS CLEAR COAT

SUPER DURABLE POLYESTER TGIC

QUANTITY - (1LB)
CURE TIME = 400F/10 MIN @ PMT (PART METAL TEMPERATURE)
GLOSS LEVEL = 100% (MIRROR FINISH)
SPECIFIC GRAVITY = 1.2 - 1.8
THEORETICAL COVERAGE = 71.5 SQ. FT/LB
SALT SPRAY RESULTS = 3,000+ HRS

[lka]

Alright just picked up the equipment for the PC. I'm sure it says somewhere here but I'm on the road,, will a little toaster oven work for now? If I like it all then I will buy a better rig. I got the kit with the gun and power for under 100.00 bucks with a couple cans of black from Harbor freight.

[AverageJoe]

Alright just picked up the equipment for the PC. I'm sure it says somewhere here but I'm on the road,, will a little toaster oven work for now? If I like it all then I will buy a better rig. I got the kit with the gun and power for under 100.00 bucks with a couple cans of black from Harbor freight.
The small one will work, but a convection one will do better (more even baking). Keep an eye on your temp, a lot of them vary on temps. The small ones just limit your number.

[C. Latch]

will a little toaster oven work for now?

Yes. Nothing else really needs to be said - just 'yes'.

[lka]

Thanks guys ;) unfortunately a worker broke my water main so I didn't have time to test the new stuff :( maybe tomorrow.

[JASON4X4]

Good luck with the water main. You will enjoy the set up.

[lka]

Good luck with the water main. You will enjoy the set up.

Thanks ;) and the main grew I noticed afterwards it was also leaking under the driveway, we dug a ton and have a guy coming tomorrow to water bore and then install a new line lol it's going to cost me about 10 kegs of powder :o we got it patched enough to shower/feed the kids then I'll need to turn it off for the evening lol..

I'll checkin after I get some rounds panted, I'm excited to try it!

[Beagle333]

A little toaster oven works just great for me, but do get some sort of thermometer and check it, because little toaster thermostats do not work. You can use a laser thermometer, or just a $2 bake thermometer from WalMart, or... I was using my casting thermometer. But the toaster was 75 degrees off on mine. Some are even off by enough to reduce the boolits to a puddle of lead.
Best bet is to eventually find you a convection oven/toaster, and still check the temp. But I'm making boolits that shoot, with a $15 Black & Decker from Kroger.

[bangerjim]

Yes. Nothing else really needs to be said - just 'yes'.

And "will one oar move a boat?" The answer is yes.......but 2 oars are better and a outboard is the best!

You are extremely lucky to have a standard oven that will do an acceptable job. Several I know were not that lucky and have gone the recommended route of convection.

I threw my cheepy standard oven away.....melted boolits.....uncured powder......burnt powder. Severe hot & cold spots under the elements. Thermostat was off by 120F. (there are scientific reasons for that. Read some of my other posts on ovens in the PC threads and why they do/do not work for what we are doing.)

But yes, a cheap oven will sort of work. Most of your results (good or bad) will totally rely on the quality, brand, age, and other things about that specific brand oven. If you have an old one, try it. If not, spend a little more and buy the best new......we are only talking a hundred dollars or so.

I spend the money up front and get the best I can. Why waste time (and money) trying to do things on the cheeeeeeep?

bangerjim

[el34]

Convection makes sense, a little fan keeps the temp consistent throughout.

The one I use was $40 from Walmart. Its temp knob is accurate, confirmed by a casting thermometer.

95688

http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?povid=P1171-C1110.2784+1137.2772-L0&search_constraint=0&ic=48_0&Find.x=0&Find.y=0&Find=Find&_ta=1&search_query=toaster%20oven&_tt=toaster oven

It only comes with one rack/tray but has two slots so I made a second tray and bake 150-160 boolits at a whack.

[Ken73]

Hey guys, I'd like to update the first page of this thread a bit, sort of turning it into a "FAQ" of sorts since everyone seems to come here for the basic questions/answers. (It is, afterall, a sticky!) Before I do though, I'd like to get input from those of you who have experience or know of someone with experience around PC'ing in general. That way new folks don't have to weed through 99+ pages to make sure they don't miss anything. If you can, please PM me with what you think is pertinent info.

Things I'd like to verify and/or put in the FAQ:

Accuracy (which I know, is debatable)
Velocities (so far the fastest I've heard of is 3200fps)
Methods (ESPC, dry tumble, wet tumble)
Powder types (TGIC, polyester, etc.)
Tray types (non-stick foil w/nuts, nails, etc.)
Oven types (toaster, convection, etc.)
Gun types (for ESPC method)
Places to get powder (PBTP, HF, Columbia Coatings, Eastwood, Caswell, APP, etc.)
Gas check or not?
Bottom coat necessary?
Lube grooves necessary?
Different loading necessary? (Work up your loads vs. published data)

Any links to videos/pictures/forum posts (whether here or elsewhere) is also appreciated.

[prickett]

How about starting a new thread for that? The current one is 99 pages of people trying to figure things out. The new one could be things that people figured out.

[Ken73]

How about starting a new thread for that? The current one is 99 pages of people trying to figure things out. The new one could be things that people figured out.

That was the point, this is already a sticky, I could update this one - a new one would just start the process all over again and I can edit the (my) first post in this thread with the info. Most new people see a long thread like this and realize there's a ton of info in it so they come here. No need for multiple posts.

[prickett]

My only concern is that most people, seeing a 99 page thread would never read the first 80 pages. I usually skip to the end to see what people have perfected, rather than read through the pages where people are still experimenting. If others do that too, they'd never see the neatly organized first post.

[Beagle333]

I usually read the first page, or at least the first 2-3 posts to get what the idea was about and why the thread was good enough material for a sticky, then skip to the last page to see what's new with the idea. 8-)

[dverna]

My only concern is that most people, seeing a 99 page thread would never read the first 80 pages. I usually skip to the end to see what people have perfected, rather than read through the pages where people are still experimenting. If others do that too, they'd never see the neatly organized first post.

pricket makes a good point. I have the same concerns on a thread I started.

I have been told the moderators may allow the thread originator to edit a thread. I have not pursued this as the thread I started is still under 8 pages but there is a bunch of garbage in it that needs to be trashed if it keeps growing.

Doing this is a lot of work on a 100 page thread so I have decided that 8 pages is the limit for me. There is so much "lookie at what I did yesterday" and "oh nice job" that does nothing to inform and educate.

Almost no one is going to read a 100 page thread - if they have a life. A sticky that is over 20 pages is not a sticky any more IMHO. Too much junk. Then we complain about newbies who do not read the stickies. Go figure - LOL

If/when I do this, I will post something on the thread saying, "This thread will be edited in one week to remove posts that do not contribute to the intent of the thread."

For example, look at the Extreme Lube thread. It really needs a Cliff notes version. And it is a shame really because there is a lot of good work it but it is buried. The coatings stickies are the worst offenders IMHO.

Don Verna

[Rhino77]

Don't think.......DO!!!!!!!!!! HA.....ha. (sorry....I sound like our "buddy"...Don't boo....vote)

I ESPC my 30-06's all the time. I do not shoot them at full jacketed loads, but at lower plinking loads. Some on here are getting up to very high rifle velocities with good success. I would rely on GC's! Period! (ooooops.....sorry again!)


But do not be afraid to try it. It is very easy and results are amazing. I just hated messing around with greasy lubes, concocting them over smoldering pots, and getting them to stick to the boolits right.

Have fun!!!!!!!!!! [smilie=w:

bangerjim :guntootsmiley:

Thanks for the encouragement, it is on my to do list! :-)

[Russel Nash]

I was at my local Subway the other day. I noticed they had a new toaster oven, so I had to ask what happened to the old one. They said some part on it broke. I wish I could have snagged it first. Bummer!

[Walter Laich]

FYI scanned all the pages but am sure I missed something

[Maximumbob54]

I'm still having VERY hit or miss accuracy results. I decided to try some ES coated and some tumble coated both with HF red to see if I could tell any difference. Trouble is neither one is a load I would call accurate:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/IMG_20140208_095420629_zpsa2clodns.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/IMG_20140208_095420629_zpsa2clodns.jpg.html)

Ignore the bottom as those were alox'ed lead .38's through a S&W M15-3. The top two were PC'ed and it doesn't really matter which was which at this point as I expect better than that at seven yards!!! It's strange how one load you work up will find an accurate spot finally and yet the next one just doesn't ever seem to happen. (grumbles)

[popper]

40SW @ 7. It does work, even with old eyes.
96385

[prickett]

I'm still having VERY hit or miss accuracy results. I decided to try some ES coated and some tumble coated both with HF red to see if I could tell any difference. Trouble is neither one is a load I would call accurate:


Was your lead too soft? Remember that baking will undo any benefits of water dropping - if you use/need it. You could run a test by baking 10 boolits (with NO PC on them), then traditionally lubing them. Check them for accuracy. If they are equally as inaccurate, then your alloy is probably too soft. Allow them a few weeks to age harden and try again.

[Maximumbob54]

Everything is range scrap. But if I can make a fairly accurate .357 magnum with that same range scrap then why would the .40 and .45 be so difficult???

[C. Latch]

Everything is range scrap. But if I can make a fairly accurate .357 magnum with that same range scrap then why would the .40 and .45 be so difficult???

Somewhere there's a thread I started, making the case for the need for side-by-side comparisons between lube and PC. Your plight is a good object lesson in that need.

[Maximumbob54]

Somewhere there's a thread I started, making the case for the need for side-by-side comparisons between lube and PC. Your plight is a good object lesson in that need.

Not sure if I agree or not. Most jacketed is just a soft lead core. My .357 magnum load is a healthy charge of AA #9 over a 158gr SWC from a Lee TL mold. Those are range scrap. And yet that same coated bullet does terrible in a .38 special so I still think it's a matter of finding that window. It's just a much smaller window. Maybe.

[prickett]

Everything is range scrap. But if I can make a fairly accurate .357 magnum with that same range scrap then why would the .40 and .45 be so difficult???

Assuming you are loading for .357 and as .38 special and getting decent accuracy, your lead should be hard enough for at least the .45.

[prickett]

Most jacketed is just a soft lead core.

But the jacket is much harder than PC. The PC may not tear (i.e. remains intact), but it doesn't stop the soft lead from deforming within the coating.

Think of a balloon. You can squeeze one end and the other expands. The outer coating (the balloon) remains intact.

PC performs one function - creates an outer coating (durable, but flexible) that keeps the lead from contacting the barrel.

Jacketed performs two functions - creates the outer coating, but also maintains the inner lead's shape.

[popper]

Bob54 it may be good for 45 but probably too soft for 357 & 40. Did you let them age harden? I tried a softer alloy in 40, groups opened up a bit, shot a week after coating (HiTek). If you don't get leading, the load/alloy determines accuracy.

[Maximumbob54]

I just don't get how I could make a .357 magnum work with scrap lead and lower pressure stuff won't work. It's all soft range scrap. I would get it if I were using all wheel weights or Lyman clone alloy. I'm getting the opposite of what I feel I should get. The only advice I'm still mulling over is the fact that the coatings are so slick maybe the burn time in the barrel is being shortened and I need a faster powder. I used Longshot in my .40's and I know that's pretty slow. But the only other powder I have in bulk is Titegroup and I'm pretty anti that powder in the .40 as I feel it's too much pressure and too fast build up in the case.

[dverna]

Bob54

it is hard to believe any load will shoot that poorly at 7 yards unless something is VERY wrong. Way undersize? ?????.

How does the bullet shoot with normal lube?? - But I really doubt if lube (or coating) is the issue.

Is the gun OK? Will it shoot with jacketed?

Do not 'blame' the lube/coating at this point. Too many good results with coatings in pistols to make that conclusion.

Don Verna

[Maximumbob54]

My M&P45c has been nothing but a good shooter and adding the Apex trigger and action enhancement kit only made it that much better. Which I'm going to add those parts slowly but surely to all my M&P's, yes they are that good... And that Lee bullet has always shot fine for me unless I didn't alox it enough and then it would just lead a little.

[WallyM3]

My M&P45c has been nothing but a good shooter and adding the Apex trigger and action enhancement kit only made it that much better. Which I'm going to add those parts slowly but surely to all my M&P's, yes they are that good... And that Lee bullet has always shot fine for me unless I didn't alox it enough and then it would just lead a little.

I looked back for a reference to the particular mould # you mention as working well in your M&P, but don't see anything.

[Maximumbob54]

I looked back for a reference to the particular mould # you mention as working well in your M&P, but don't see anything.

Maybe I never said it. It's the Lee TL452-200-SWC and the only problem I ever had with it was early on I didn't use enough alox. Switching to the 45/45/10 alox/JPW/mineral spirits made that a distant memory and made handling them easier with not mule snot on everything. Then that bullet really started to shine in everything I tred it in and that included .45 Colt loads for some powder puff shooting. Then I used Lee's 452-SWC-200 which is just Lee's version of the accurate in everything H&G 68 bullet. I'm used to that as said being accurate in EVERYTHING that will feed it. One did hang up in my Colt 1991A1 but it was just as sorry as the M&P with them. I'm no bullseye shooting master but at 15 yards I've used that gun (with the Series 80 junk parts...) to make holes that overlap each other that eat out the bullseye center of the target and little to nothing else. But not that day. Both guns were fed both bullets with the exact same results. I have to assume I need to back off the podwer or add more. I've just not seen either bullet perform so poorly during working up a load. It was shocking. Thus I think it's just a smaller window to work in for load developement. Maybe.

[WallyM3]

That's great. Thank you. I'm suspected that might be the one, but knowing is better than guessing.

I'm planning on a try with PC for 1911s.

[Maximumbob54]

This is me guessing but it looks like from pics posted the bullet mold to get is the Lee TL452-230-2R but the only other bulk (6 cavity) mold I have is the 452-230-TC mold which I've not yet seasoned for use. I assume the RN mold would function best as far as feeding (of course) but I think the TL once coated seems to contact more of the bore than a traditional lube grove does so maybe you get better accuracy? Maybe? I dunno. I was shocked at how accurate I made that little Lee TL358-138-SWC with epoxy coating and PC. I suspect they shoot better than I can as shooting them off a rest made a mighty small group from a 4" Highway Patrolman. Love that gun by the way.

[WallyM3]

Who could hate an N-frame 357? (LOL) I've got an oddball that is a laser: a Mod 28 with a 6" Mod 27 barrel and Millet sights. I call it my Model 27-1/2.

Somebody who know what they were about put that one together.

I can see that I've got a good deal of experimenting to do (once the temp get above 20 degrees around here).

[Maximumbob54]

I can't wait to see how that same load does in my new Rossi carbine. I bet it's a screamer but I hope that blunt SWC stays straight at a hundred. But if the 28 says anything it's going to at least be decent.

[kbstenberg]

I was down in St Paul Minn. for a doctors apt. and I looked up some PC companies that were close by. I went over to them to try and scrounge come small quantities of Powder from past jobs that was just gathering dust. I met a really nice guy at one place. He went in the back room to see what he had. He came back holding 2 large bags. placed them on his desk and said that that is all he had at the moment. I asked how much he wanted for them. AAAA just take them. I tried to find something I could trade for them. He didn't want anything. An he promised to keep me in mind and through all of his leftovers on a shelf for me. When I return I will have something special for him.
Oh I walked out of there with 2.5 lbs of high quality powder. Kevin

[Maximumbob54]

Nice!!! Even if it's mixed colors they will still shoot!!! I do however hope they have the same bake temp and time. Some of my PBTP powders have pretty far off cooking temps.