easiest paper patch mold for a novice patcher?

[seekersoftheredmist]

I've been casting for a little over a year now and I thoroughly am addicted! I now would like to try my hand at some paper patching for my high wall in 45-70. I'm working on a tight budget so with all of that in mind do yall have any advice on a particular mold, method, and also would any of you have a old mold you don't patch with anymore you would be willing to part with reasonably? Thanks for all the help.

[Don McDowell]

Might take a look at some of the blocks available from Accurate Moulds. Old West moulds also offers brass blocks at reasonable prices, and then Buffalo Arms blocks are the next step up in price.
What are your plans for this bullet , target or hunting? It does make some difference. Knowing the twist on your rifle will help you determine the length of the bullet.

[johnson1942]

the most reasonable way to get into paperpatching would be to take the mould you have for a cast boolit and buy a push through reducing die at .451 diam. for it. then take that .451 bullet and wrap two wraps of a paper that brings it up to .456 to .458. twist the tails not overly tight when wet but when dry you can twist real tight. then with a quality curved cuticle sissors use the curve of the sissors to clip the tail close to the base of the bullet. Doughty enterprises 2421 south 4/th st. west Missoula montana 59801 will build a push through reducing die for 32.00 dollars shipping included. or some one from this sight will do that work also. i apologise to him but his name slips my mind now. if you have a good mould that shoots good now. again just reduce the bullet to .451 and use that. most likely every thing done right it will shoot perfectly for you.

[Doc_Stihl]

I started paper patching using a TL .451 diameter Lee 200 SWC for my 45-70. Cause that's what I had.
I cast, patched, lightly lubed with 45/45/10, then sized to .460 with a push through.

I moved from that to casting the lee 405. Push through sizing at .457 and then running it through a .454 H&I die, then a .451 H&I die. Then patching back up. I've done that with the lee 500 postel as well as the 405 HB with good results.

[WARD O]

Go with Don's suggestion of Accurate Arms. Very reasonable cost and you can even get two bullet styles in one mould if you like. I am using aluminum blocks with the 475 paper patch with the good sized meplat as a hunting bullet in my Shiloh 45-70 with very good results. I asked him to have it cast at .442 and after I add the patch the bullet comes in around .448-.449 which is just right for a hunting bullet. I cast it of 30/1 and it upsets nicely over 68 grains of Goex Old E 2F. I'm shooting the open barrel sights and can keep a group under 3" at 100 yards.

It is a minor investment which will likely get you hooked on this new aspect of BP shooting.

ward

[Lead pot]

One suggestion I will make for you is, dont try sizing and shooting pistol bullets in your high wall. Yes they will hit sheet of printer paper @ 50 yards but you will soon get discouraged with the PP when you get out to 100 or 200 yards and can't hit smitt.
Do the right thing and save up for the proper mould and dont look back.
Find the paper you can easily find and measure the four sheets thickness and subtract that from your bore diameter and get your proper mould.

[country gent]

Buffalo arms company also sells swaged bullets that are very close to thier molds. You can buy 50 at a time in various diameters, weights and styles. Test them then but the approproate mold. Buy shooting some first you will gain an udea of what you need / want.

[Don McDowell]

Country Gent is spot on. Try some proper paper patched bullets first, see if you want to pursue it further.
I don't see the sense in starting with a grease groove mould running the poor thing thru a progression of size dies , just to patch it back to the diameter it started at in the first place.... The paper patch slick offers much better ballistic capabilities than the grease groove bullet anyway.
Besides all that even if you started with a Lee mould (20$) then two size dies (25x2=50$) your setting at 70 dollars for a half *** set up anyway. So why not go with the 85$ mould from Accurate, the 95$ mould from Old West, or the 134$ blocks from BACO and be ready to go with a bullet that is ready to patch as it falls from the cavities..

[John Boy]

Why not take the advice of Lead pot for bullet size:
* buy the paper at one of these stores ... http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...patching-paper
* buy a tray or 2 of PP bullets ... http://www.buffaloarms.com/paper_pat...s_pr-3871.aspx
* In the meantime read this how to ... http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/PPB.htm
Then buy your mold

[zuke]

I started PP after reading the series by Henry Mathews.
That was before the internet was so evolved.
I started with a mold I had on hand, a LEE 500gr.
I picked up the paper at Staples and used the same powder charge.
When I fired the first couple rds. I was hooked!!

I went that way because that's what I had, and money was tight.
I used a LEE 451 sizing die to bring it down and 2 wrap's to patch it back up.
I have NEVER sized after patching,and have never had a problem with it.

[seekersoftheredmist]

Thank folks for all the helpful advice! looking forward to doing some patching soon! getting my ducks in a row so to speak and hopefully this week or next i will be ROLLING some up ,ready to send downrange!

[Huvius]

Seeker, how are you coming along?
I like Zuke's post. Pretty much the route I took as well other than the post wrap sizing.
Now, I want to paper patch everything I have from 303 up!
If you let us know where you shoot or whereabouts you are residing, I am sure there are many here whom would be glad to offer you some unpatched boolits.

[bigted]

the greatest thing to determine is what you plan to do with these boolits.

if hunting ... then there is a route to go that is prudent and will fill your bill perfectly.

if paper targets or silly wets then another route will get you closer then the other.

still yet ... if you hunger after the long yardage ... then yet another style will benefit greatly.

really need to determine what your need will be and then you can follow that train of thought ... if you do not make this determination then ... i speak from experience ... you will mix and match your shooting loads and style and be no further along years after beginning then you are rite now. the years of fumbling will net you great experience and tell you a bunch of things that dont work ... however unless you have the patients of Job ... you will spend a few days cursing and blowing at this addiction that is SUPPOSE to be fun and satisfying and feed your growing ego and ...on n on n on! set down and do some contemplating if you have not done so and determine what blows your skirts up and what not so much. then you can sift thru all the good meaning advise and narrow down on what you need as information.

also what is your number for accuracy? if 3 to 4 inch groups will make yer day then that is one thing. however if you need sub 1 inch groups then that would be another thing. and so on ... anything between or on either side of this is to also be determined as your questions will and should be altered with what you expect from your shooting/patching experience.

this is a great endeavor and pleasing to say the least ... however if you determine your "need" then your success will be faster and all that much sweeter.

for instance ... if buffalo hunters are your motivation for this sport and you want to emulate their success then know a bit about what they really did and with what exactly they did it with. what their accuracy was like and how they hunted.

if the long range shooters are your motivation then this is another set of circumstances to be dealt with and should be read up on to find out what they used and how they loaded and what fouling control was used.

buff hunting and the long range target shooters have two separate and distinct styles of loading and shooting and to mix the two will be uneventful and net so much frustration that a smart feller would stop and do something else. everybody here would like to see you have a fulfilling sport of this and come away with all smiles.

[Don McDowell]

Mabye a Canuk version of the Hardy boys book series?
I'm still trying to figure out why a person would take a perfectly good grease groove bullet, torture that poor thing for awhile, then wrap it back up to its orginal size....
Be a bunch easier just to take a useless mould, like something for the 357 , out to the shop find a drill bit about the right size diameter and drill thru the old cavity to the depth a person wanted for bullet length..Would have a slick, with the sprue plate all lined up and ready to go.. It don't get much cheaper than that.

[Gunlaker]

Like Kenny says, get R. Wright's book on paper patched bullets. There really isn't much of use in Paul Mathews book on paper patching. At least not with respect to black powder. Orville's book from Shiloh is worth having around too.

Chris.

[chrissy4560]

lee makes some good stuff have you used the alox with any black powder shooting?

[Nobade]

lee makes some good stuff have you used the alox with any black powder shooting?

Alox doesn't have any use combined with black powder as far as I can determine.

-Nobade

[Good Cheer]

For paper patching you might be able to use one of the heaviest .45 pistol molds that Lee makes. They have a 300 grainer that would come a little heavier cast real soft. It wouldn't be as heavy as standard 45-70 fare but it might work without having to buy a sizer.
Anyone have any thoughts? Might work?

[Don McDowell]

To large in diameter, and probably way short to use in anything but a 20 or 22 inch twist.

[montana_charlie]

Anyone have any thoughts? Might work?

Two wraps of onionskin should get it up close to groove diameter.
CM