FBI 9mm load

[Thumbcocker]

I have heard that the FBI is adopting the 9mm Hornaday critical duty round. Just for giggles; does anyone know how it stacks up to the old +p.38 FBI load energy wise?🤔

[roverboy]

Is it the 124 gr. load that they are switching to? If so, it might expand a little better than the old .38 load but, I don't know if it will beat it on penetration. The 158 gr. swchp +p is a good load in .38 Spl.

[JBinMN]

You might try comparing the two using the tables in this calculator if you know the specifics it is asking for:
http://www.handloads.com/calc/quick.asp

I would be interested to know as well, but I do not have the data for the 9mm load you are describing, and reckon you would have it so I do not have to go look it up.
LOL

[RJM52]

Last I heard it was 147 grains... Someone posted on another Forum that it was 135....

147s are going between 950 and a 1000.... The 135s run 1050-1100.

Basically a 15 shot .38 Special +P.....

[Wayne Dobbs]

It's a +P 135 grain load at about 1100 fps. Hornady has been taking LE contracts all over the country and this load is their flagship load in 9mm. Works well if the shooter works well...

[JBinMN]

A comparison using the calculator posted earlier with just some "inferred" data. The results are the ENERGY, MOMENTUM & TAYLOR KO score:

Load One (9mm)
Weight in grains
135
Velocity in fps
1100
Caliber in inches
.356
Energy
362
Momentum
21
Taylor KO
7

-------------------------------

Load Two ( 38 Special)
Weight in grains
158
Velocity in fps
950
Caliber in inches
.357

Energy
316
Momentum
21
Taylor KO
7

--------------------------
Load Three ( 38 Spec.)
Weight in grains
158
Velocity in fps
1000
Caliber in inches
.357
Energy
350
Momentum
22
Taylor KO
8

[Plate plinker]

Ha I doubt they will stay with it for more than a year or two. Seems the FBI switch’s duty ammo more than any other police agency.

[RJM52]

Ha I doubt they will stay with it for more than a year or two. Seems the FBI switch’s duty ammo more than any other police agency.

I think it is more perception than reality... Since the Miami shooting they have mainly issued the 147 Subsonic for the 9mm and the 180 for the .40 S&W.

[Outpost75]

Not the FBI 9mm load, but Speer 147-grain Gold Dot G2 load gives 950 fps from my 1-7/8" barrel S&W Model 940 in 9mm.

That's more juice than the 147-grain Federal Hydrashok .38 Special +P+ from a similar length barrel and much hotter than the 158 lead HP FBI load from a snubby.

[Forrest r]

There's 3 different critical duty 9mm loads put out by hornady.

#90215
124gr bullet 1175fps
#90225
135gr bullet 1110fps
#90235
135gr bullet 1010fps

The critical duty 135gr #90225's have a slower burning powder/18% more powder by weight than the #90235's. Same bullet just differernt powder and more of it.

[Wayne Dobbs]

The 135 +P is the only 9mm duty pistol load in use in both Dallas PD and Texas DPS (along with lots of other medium PDs). Both use their pistols on slow learners frequently, so we should have a good idea soon.

[FergusonTO35]

The 1010 fps load sounds like a real honey, I need to get me some.

[RJM52]

I read on another forum that the FBI was using the 135 CD 1110 fps load....

[RU shooter]

It makes no sense went to the 9mm cause the 38 wasn't enough then to the 10mm cause the 9mm wasn't enough then to the 40 cause the 10mm was too much now we're back to the 9mm. Cause ?? Who knows?? Methinks better training is needed instead of the quest for the ultimate pistol caliber or magic bullet . I've carried all of the listed calibers except the 38 when I worked as a patrolman also the 45 acp never felt undergunned with any of them would still carry any of them if went back to that line of work . Always thought the 40 with the 155 gold dot at 1200 fps was a good balance .

[charlie b]

IMHO it has to do with the ammo companies and the test requirements. The FBI std tests include a specific minimum of penetration in gel after going though various medium, including car windshields, layers of denim, etc. They have engineered the 9MM CD to do just that so many organizations are going back to the 9mm.

I have done the same. I went back to a 9mm for a number of reasons and use the Hornady ammo for carry. I really like shooting the 9mm more than my .45's and I am confident in my ability with it.

The problem with the 9mm in the 'old days' was it lacked the ability to meet the FBI standards, hence the move to 10mm, then .40.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Law enforcement agencies choose guns their employees can qualify with. Qualification courses are 50 rounds. Agents / officers ranks include the vertically challenged/small hand variety that Human Resources insures are included in the staffing. Magazine capacity is factored in as an assumed good thing. Combine these considerations and small grip high capacity low recoiling guns are the result. Law enforcement agents are busy doing their job making Range time a relatively small percent on the annual duty hours.

I did 30 years as a LEO and was a firearms instructor. Looking back over my career I shake my head over what we did and say Elmer Keith was right.

[Mr_Sheesh]

A 45ACP gets a KO score of 13 and I can show you how little recoil it actually has (have a TINY gal hold one that's set up right, with just their thumb on the extended safety and tip of their trigger finger on the trigger - Other fingers out of the way.) - It will rock upwards but not "fly out of her hand"; People get afraid of it but can learn NOT to be afraid of it - and then it's a good choice. But, use what you want I wish I still had the video of that one tiny gal shooting a 1911, very accurate and just thumb and trigger finger. (Speed of the next shot sucks, doing that, but it shows you how little recoil the 1911 has. Use a Weaver stance and you get pretty good speed on the 2nd shot Same thing for 9mm, people just need to learn that the gun's NOT that violent, and get used to it; Lack of training issue IMO.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Our local range is very active, we hosted the Nationals years ago in IHMSA. I witnessed a 14 year old girl set a range record hitting 5 out of 5 half sized metal silhouette targets at 200 yards with her 7x30 Waters TC Contender.

[Dieselhorses]

Here's the "lo-down">>> https://www.military.com/kitup/2018/...standards.html

[9.3X62AL]

Law enforcement agencies choose guns their employees can qualify with. Qualification courses are 50 rounds. Agents / officers ranks include the vertically challenged/small hand variety that Human Resources insures are included in the staffing. Magazine capacity is factored in as an assumed good thing. Combine these considerations and small grip high capacity low recoiling guns are the result. Law enforcement agents are busy doing their job making Range time a relatively small percent on the annual duty hours.

I did 30 years as a LEO and was a firearms instructor. Looking back over my career I shake my head over what we did and say Elmer Keith was right.

^^^^ THIS! ^^^^

Succinctly put, SJH. Right with ya, sir.

The "135 grain x 1110 FPS" loading is closer to the 9mm's full potential, and is more powerful than the "147 grain x 950 FPS" sub-sonic load that FBI has proselytized for LE since the 1986 Miami debacle. This load still is not up to European standards or to the level of the M-9 ammo issued in the using services 9mm arms--these propel a 124 grain bullet into the 1250 FPS realm, though the bullet is a non-expanding design as required by the Hague Conventions. Swap that FMJ/RN bullet for a good controlled-expansion HP design, and the 9mm is a viable carry option. I have Speer 124 grain +P Gold Dots on board in my 9mms, in the P-226 they run 1210-1230 FPS and in Marie's P-228 they get 1170-1200 FPS.