severe leading on first cast boolits

[ShooterAZ]

My .02 cents (and you can keep the change). Start with a measured .452 diameter sized boolit.

1) Make sure you have adequate flair on the cases so you aren't swaging down your boolit diameter when seating them.

2) Don't over taper crimp, this can possibly reduce diameter.

3) Use more lube. Straight Alox works fine with a very thin coating applied. You can mix it 50/50 with mineral spirits, but I wouldn't dilute it more than that.

4) No need to bake the boolits, just let them air dry. A small fan helps with this.

Hope this helps!

[popper]

Soft lead, Lee sizer and alox will do that. Did the same in my XDm40 after ~5 shots. PC will eliminate (mostly) the problem, as will loading a few weeks after sizing. Also need the correct expander for the cases. First problem is Lee sizer @ 452 will NOT give 452 bullets for soft lead! Size a unprimed case, partially seat a sized bullet, gently pull it and check base dia. It will be smaller than you need and will lead terribly.

[mdi]

lubed with alox (v&m naptha with a few drops of alox, swirled around in a glass jar with a few dozen rounds, then baked in oven at 220F for 40 mins)

I understand thinning alox with naptha, but why bake? Attempting to dry the alox? I would suggest thinning some alox, if necessary, and follow directions for Lee alox...

[gpidaho]

I'd ditch the messy Alox and powder coat the bullets. I shoot .451 bullets of soft lead in my 45ACPs ( that's the size of my Blackhawk conversion cylinders throats) They shoot just fine in my other 45s without leading so I just keep everything the same. Gp

[mehavey]

"Messy" ALOX results using Post#9 "GreasyFingers" Thin Film

1911 Gov't (original)
ProofMark 200gr H&G#68 (BN-15) -- all commercial lube boiled off/acetoned to bare lead
Lee-sized (again) to 0.452"
Then ALOX'd/thin-film/baked 30-min@225/shoot 24hrs later
Bullseye/4.2gr, Fed-LP
OAL 1.26"

10 Rounds/2Mags/30sec total
1 dry patch down muzzle, then pull and photograph forcing-cone/chamber

1,000 words.....





post:
I've got a true H&G#68_square-base/Accurate mould coming in.
'Will cast soft (30-1) and repeat...
But I don't expect anything different

[megasupermagnum]

I guess it just reaffirms the old saying. There is more than one way to skin a cat. I never would have thought of baking alox lube. In that case, I would pull a few bullets, and check their size. It is an incredibly common problem for brass to size bullets down.

[mehavey]

The secret (if there is one) is in the THIN film.
(Initial baking just accelerates the drying process.)
Truly-dried/thin-film ALOX is just slippery as all [expletive] under pressure.

*post: No "crimp" ... just size the case mouth back to 0.471"

[wv109323]

one more thing I will add. With your soft lead make sure you are not sizing down your bullets when you are seating them in the brass. Load a round and pull the bullet to make sure it is .452 after seating. The best accuracy for the 200 g. SWC is around 750 FPS.

[Conditor22]

"I do have everything I need to do powder coating instead...would that fix this?" PC will make softer boolits tougher.

This is a valid point, you are using soft lead --- OK but soft lead is easier to be compressed when seating the boolit in the brass.

Yes you can flare the case mouth the eliminate shaving of the boolit BUT that doesn't stop the compressing of the boolits

The cheapest fix is to get a lee powder-through-die to flare the case mouth and expand the case neck so you're not compressing the boolit when your seating it.

You could also use an NOE cases neck expander ( large measurement is the flare small measurement is the case neck expander size {I use the same size as the boolit I'm seating because brass springs back .001 to .0015 after expanding})

A Lyman M die (I know nothing about these)

[cp1969]

There's a lot of good cast bullet info in Glen Friyxell's work, including leading.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf

[mehavey]

Saturday I received Tom's ACCURATE 45-200H (H&G-68) and cast up two dozen bullets out of soft (30-1) Alloy that measures short of 6 BHN (i.e, it's really SOFT)

Yesterday ...
- I sized eight to .452, and greasy-fingered/baked ALOX at 225/1-hr
- I PC'd eight w/ Eastwood Green Mirror, and sized to .452


Today I loaded all at 4.6gr/WST/FedLP/1.26 OAL and shot them.

Both gave me 2" at 25 yds.
PC centered top right quadrant of 4" bull.
ALOX centered bottom right of same 4" bull.

BOTH gave me light "scuffing" in 1st 1/2" of barrel
BOTH otherwise left mirror-finish in rest of 5" barrel

LABRADAR-Vel
PdrCt: 785 ± 9
ALOX: 781 ±6

Tonight I'll cast Lyman#2
and shoot again tomorrow

[guy_with_boolits]

Saturday I received Tom's ACCURATE 45-200H (H&G-68) and cast up two dozen bullets out of soft (30-1) Alloy that measures short of 6 BHN (i.e, it's really SOFT)

Yesterday ...
- I sized eight to .452, and greasy-fingered/baked ALOX at 225/1-hr
- I PC'd eight w/ Eastwood Green Mirror, and sized to .452


Today I loaded all at 4.6gr/WST/FedLP/1.26 OAL and shot them.

Both gave me 2" at 25 yds.
PC centered top right quadrant of 4" bull.
ALOX centered bottom right of same 4" bull.

BOTH gave me light "scuffing" in 1st 1/2" of barrel
BOTH otherwise left mirror-finish in rest of 5" barrel

LABRADAR-Vel
PdrCt: 785 ± 9
ALOX: 781 ±6

Tonight I'll cast Lyman#2
and shoot again tomorrow

This is very useful info thanks, could you comment a bit more on your exact ALOX procedure? I'm trying to get the amount right.

Are you going to push the velocity up and see how it goes?

[mehavey]

See Post#9 for ALOX use/bake/dry/sit in front of room fan thereafter -- 20-hr cycle from evening coat/bake to next afternoon load/shoot. It's got to be absolutely dry (being thin helps that)
I tend to stick to as soft an alloy as possible, considering....


If I'm going to go past 18,000psi, I'll gas-check/shift to Lyman#2 alloy.
From that point I've gone up to 35-45ksi/2,500fps in Rifles
See also here w/ LEGEND-1 and LEGEND-2

[fredj338]

Wrong lube imo. I think baking the lubed bullets is where the lube fails plus just go straight Alox. Check the actually loaded diameter by pulling a loaded bullet. Yes you can shoot pretty soft lead bullets in a 45acp with proper size & decent lube.

[mehavey]

I think baking the lubed bullets is where the lube fails...

Unfortunately, the data proves that wrong.
Please see links in Post #33 again.

(You are correct in using thin/greasy-coat straight ALOX though)

[Chemoman]

i have 14 revolvers. 22 lr, 45 long colt and 38 special. solved the leading problem with the 45 long colt and 38 special by using a 60 thousands thick wad behind the bullet next to the powder. no hot gasses touch the bullet, then no leading. the 22 lr dont need it, they never lead up. i know i sound like a broken record on this but of course it works.

[JoeJames]

I don’t hand lube the individual bullets. I put them in a plastic tub, spill lube on them and shake, not stir. Every few hours I swing by the container and shake some more. No muss, no fuss.

Agree. Per y'all's instructions I ran a thin line of Lee Liquid Alox mix with mineral spirits 50-50 on my boolits in the tub, tumbled regularly, and left the lid off between times (they ended up kind of bronze looking); after a day or so spread them out on tinfoil sheet to dry out completely. No leading at all in my 32S&W Longs or in my 44 Special.

[canyon-ghost]

Aside from all other things, copper fouling from Jack-word factory ammo can shred lead bullets. I ended up scrubbing out a 41 mag four times before it was clean enough to shoot lead. Factory stuff leaves behind some pretty hard fouling. Just a thought.
Ron

[rockrat]

And if you want to try a bit harder boolit, you could drop the boolits from the mould into a bucket of cold water (water quenching), then let them dry and then lube.
If I use the LLA, I dilute it 50/50 with mineral spirits and put about 50-100 (depends on size) boolits in a plastic container with about 8 drops of lube and swirl. Dump on a screen mesh tray and put above a propane wall heater in the shop and let dry overnight at least.

I also use LLA thinned about 8/1 (m.s. to lla) and coat rifle boolits so as to have a very, very thin coat on the boolit. Helps when I size them and I figure the light film on the boolits nose doesn't hurt things. I have a few pistol moulds that are a bit oversize and this helps when I run them thru the Star.

[guy_with_boolits]

well I think I see my problem

these videos showing how much alox to use literally show about 50 times more than I used...I used a few drops and cut it with alot of naptha

these guys are gripping the alox bottle like a baseball bat and squeezing it out like they are making a hot dog!!! whatttt????

even the lee video shows it

So now I'm doing the greasy fingers method modified to use a bag so more like greasy bag method, and I'm putting plenty of alox on there, basically whats show in the video but adjusted for my number of bullets (reasonable handful)

https://youtu.be/CduXYE_ISVU?t=151
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aLbdf6cVpI