Converting a 32-20 to a 218Bee?

[andym79]

Hi guys, I have a hankering for a 218Bee, they are however expensive and even then might have worn barrels, especially as they were more commonly shooting jackets than larger bore model 92 (or 92 based rifles) like 44-40.

I thought it might be wise to get a 32-20 with a worn out barrel and a good action and have it re barrelled for 218BEE.

A lever set up for 32-20 would need anything other than a re-barrel?

How much would this cost roughly including the price of a new barrel?

Also, I think I would be better of going for a 1:14" twist instead of the 1:16", it lets me stabilise bullets at a slower speed. I would like to shot cast and a 1:16 twist means a minimum speed of 1900fps for a 55 grainer whereas with a 1:14" I could go from 1000fps to the limit of the bullet or the projectile. Likewise for a 44 grainer the 1:16" needs 1600fps whereas the 1:14" needs a mere 700fps (too slow).

A 1:14" twist would still be okay to get cast up to 2200fps?

[w30wcf]

I don't have a .218 Bee but have had very good success with cast at 2,600 f.p.s. (45 - 50 gr bullets) in the .22 Hornet.

Based on that, I would think tht the 218 Bee should do well with cast.

w30wcf

[451whitworth]

the problem you will run into is it's not so easy a conversion. The innards are very different between the 32/20 & 25/20 compared to the .218 Bee.

[andym79]

the problem you will run into is it's not so easy a conversion. The innards are very different between the 32/20 & 25/20 compared to the .218 Bee.

Oh, not being to knowledgeable in gunsmith matters, I assumed it would be okay. The bee and 25-20 cartridge aren't much different!

Do you know which bits are different?

[pietro]

.


The Bee's rim diameter is .445" vs the .25-20's .405" (approx 1/20" difference)

The Bee's case diameter just ahead of the rim is .4433" vs the .25-20's .349" (approx 1/10" difference)

The Bee's shoulder diameter is .431" vs the .25-20's .333" (approx 1/10" difference)

The Bee's OAL is 2.193", vs the .25-20's 1.60" (approx 1/2" difference)

The Bee is fatter & longer enough that it's problematic to cycle it through a Model 92's issue cartridge guides.

Since a version of the Model 92 was chambered in Bee (Model 65) - if a set of Bee guides can be found, it's possible to convert a .25-20 or .32-20 Model 92 to .218 Bee. (.38-40's & .44-40's have magazine throats too large to hold the smaller two cartridges.)

.

[C A Plater]

I think your biggest obstacle will be finding a .32-20 or .25-20 donor rifle. The .218 is based on that case so the bolt will not need to be modified and the carrier and feeding will have fewer problems. I've seen a few 92s and 53s along with the odd Marlin for sale but all had prices in the $1000-2000 range.

[Eutectic]

.


The Bee's rim diameter is .445" vs the .25-20's .405" (approx 1/20" difference)

The Bee's case diameter just ahead of the rim is .4433" vs the .25-20's .349" (approx 1/10" difference)

The Bee's shoulder diameter is .431" vs the .25-20's .333" (approx 1/10" difference)

The Bee's OAL is 2.193", vs the .25-20's 1.60" (approx 1/2" difference)

The Bee is fatter & longer enough that it's problematic to cycle it through a Model 92's issue cartridge guides.

Since a version of the Model 92 was chambered in Bee (Model 65) - if a set of Bee guides can be found, it's possible to convert a .25-20 or .32-20 Model 92 to .218 Bee. (.38-40's & .44-40's have magazine throats too large to hold the smaller two cartridges.)

.

Sorry pietro...... but you have measured the wrong Bee! Those dimensions are wrong.

One note on the 92 though..... The .32-20 and the .25-20 use different cartridge guides.... So the .218 Bee might as well. These parts align the round to feed correctly so a .32-20 may need new cartridge guides to function correctly.

Eutectic

[Reg]

Not sure on the twist but that could depend on what weight bullet you wanted to shoot.
I do think the 32-20 and 25-20 do have different ctg. guides so in your search for a action I think I would stay with looking for a 25-20 as I know for a fact it is a simple conversion using a Winchester 92 as a action source. Converting to the Bee only required cutting back the stop on the follower to allow for a slightly longer OAL. The guides fed perfectly.
While it might be a more sure fire deal using the 25-20 guides one never knows. A number of years back I converted a Marlin in 25-20 to a wildcat based on the .38 Spl. case in 30 caliber and it fed with no problems whatever.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I have a modern Marlin .218 Bee, haven't shot much cast through, used resized 25-20 WCF cases before I found .218 brass. The Marlins are simpler conversions than the Winchesters as there are no action differences between the .218, .25-20 or .32-20, just the barrel. The 92 Winchester may(?) need the cartridge guides slightly modified for the Bee's shoulder. I too have had great success with cast in a .22 Hornet, just haven't put any time in with this Marlin .218. The Marlin is also easy to scope, with the modern 94's (with that dumb safety) already D&T. There are modern Marlin 94's in .218, .25-20 and .32-20 out there.

[andym79]

.


The Bee's rim diameter is .445" vs the .25-20's .405" (approx 1/20" difference)

The Bee's case diameter just ahead of the rim is .4433" vs the .25-20's .349" (approx 1/10" difference)

The Bee's shoulder diameter is .431" vs the .25-20's .333" (approx 1/10" difference)

The Bee's OAL is 2.193", vs the .25-20's 1.60" (approx 1/2" difference)

The Bee is fatter & longer enough that it's problematic to cycle it through a Model 92's issue cartridge guides.

Since a version of the Model 92 was chambered in Bee (Model 65) - if a set of Bee guides can be found, it's possible to convert a .25-20 or .32-20 Model 92 to .218 Bee. (.38-40's & .44-40's have magazine throats too large to hold the smaller two cartridges.)

.

I too am not sure what Bee we are talking about with those measurements?


If the action will be fine, that makes matters a lot easier.

[andym79]

I think your biggest obstacle will be finding a .32-20 or .25-20 donor rifle. The .218 is based on that case so the bolt will not need to be modified and the carrier and feeding will have fewer problems. I've seen a few 92s and 53s along with the odd Marlin for sale but all had prices in the $1000-2000 range.

Win 92 were very popular here in Australia, they out sold the 94 here. They are a rare exception to the rule that guns cost at least 50% or more than the USA. They can be had here from $350-1700 in 32-20 and 44-40. I got a pretty good shooting 38-40 for $600. The Bees even in poor start attract $1200-3000.

[beagle]

Unless you're a machinist and have .218 reamers, plan on at least $400 for a barrel and gunsmithing and then there's dovetails to be cut and don't forget bluing. Now we're getting to $600 and the cost of a worn .32-20. It's a pretty pricey project./beagle

[LtFrankDrebbin]

I have not long had my Winchester 92 re-barreled. Going rate down here starts at $700. Mine cost $850 after cutting only two dove tails and freight. That does not include the cost of getting to the shop. ($100 fuel plus food each trip). You will be waiting a while too.

[skeet1]

andym79,
Instead of re-barreling you might want to think of re-lining. John at Taylor machine can do the job and is one of us http://www.johntaylormachine.com/49.0.html. I'm not sure if this is an original model 92 or not but if it is and you want to save the original appearance of the gun John can re-ling to 32-20 or if you must, a .218 Bee.
Ken

[andym79]

Got a couple of quotes, with the cost of a barrel, cutting the chamber, cutting for the extractor, cutting for the dovetails and bluing its going to be about $1000. So I would need to find a 32-20 or 25-20 with a good action, cheap!

It will be at best a $1500 project with postage included.

Labour costs are much higher than the states and barrels about 50-70% more.

Um, anyone for a BLR in 223 (not an authentic lever though).

[Rick459]

I have a original 1892 winchester made 1906 given to me by a close friend who passed away recently. It was originally chambered in 25/20 in 1966 he converted it over to a .218 bee. All he did was replace the barreland cut the chamber to .218 bee by hand. Shoots great. He had to cut a dovetail for the magazine tube bracket also. HTH
Rick

[JFE]

Just keep looking, good ones do come up occassionally. By the time you add up all the costs to rebarrel you could probably afford to pay up and buy an original in good condition. Plus if you don't mess it up an original will only increase in value.