Making that Bullet Collator

[TylerR]

You need more angle on the feeder. We recommend 45 degrees for everything except base up case feeding. For base up go to 55-60% tilt. This is required to get the rocking motion on the pivot
Point. If you do a search on my original post describing how it works it may help.

I found the original post.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?354324-Making-that-Bullet-Collator&p=4917179&viewfull=1#post4917179

o416 maybe we can add something to the manual that makes it clear more tilt is needed with base up case feeding.

[TylerR]

Does anyone have a winning configuration for 40sw brass mouth down for bulge busting? I'm getting roughly 5% feeding base down and an occasional case going sideways in the adapter/funnel creating an obstruction.

large pistol base up collator
large base up slide plate
short sweeper
base up ramp
40 degrees tilt.

Any suggestions?

Thank you.

You didn't mention which funnel drop hole adapter you are using. You have to make sure you using the non angled one "Brass_Base_Up_Drop_Hole_Adapter" and not the one for base down brass "Brass_Drop_Hole_Adapter"

[GWS]

I found the original post.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?354324-Making-that-Bullet-Collator&p=4917179&viewfull=1#post4917179

o416 maybe we can add something to the manual that makes it clear more tilt is needed with base up case feeding.

That's the great pivot page! When big collators began too wasn't it? You sure made a stir with that...no doubt about it.


You didn't mention which funnel drop hole adapter you are using. You have to make sure you using the non angled one "Brass_Base_Up_Drop_Hole_Adapter" and not the one for base down brass "Brass_Drop_Hole_Adapter"

See, I didn't even realize there was a non -angled one......glad really, because I would've printed it and not realized I could fit the angled one so perfect for a very Dillon-like case dropper. Interesting how things turn out. I'm having to much dang fun! Helps when dealing with.......old.;)

And I can see me wanting to drop cases upside down to the APP.....jus don't have time right now, and all my .40's are fixed at the moment. The local police dept. used to use .40S&W and Glocks.....yeah.....Glocked brass was everywhere on the range and the police shoots expected US to clean up after them......oh what drudgery!:) So I had a lot I fixed the slow way.....then.... Glock fixed their "perfect pistol"......and the local police went back to, ugh, 9mm![smilie=p:

[TylerR]

That's the great pivot page! When big collators began too wasn't it? You sure made a stir with that...no doubt about it.

See, I didn't even realize there was a non angled one......glad really, because I would've printed it and not realized I could fit the angled one so perfect for a very Dillon-like case dropper. Interesting how things turn out. I'm having to much dang fun! Helps when dealing with.......old.;)



I desperately tried to get the angled one to work for weeks. Must of designed 10 different versions. No matter what I did brass would try to flip on the way down and get stuck. Making it a straight shot took care of the issue.

[Anuccite]

I thought I read a while back you made a base for this Gearstisan Motor....... Actually I thought it was the The same footprint as the JGY370.... But alas, I just came home to the motor being here, and nothing lines up...

Did you create one? Can you? Do you need some measurements?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YBXMTWC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[noacess]

I thought I read a while back you made a base for this Gearstisan Motor....... Actually I thought it was the The same footprint as the JGY370.... But alas, I just came home to the motor being here, and nothing lines up...

Did you create one? Can you? Do you need some measurements?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YBXMTWC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thats the motor I use. Main_Body_M634JS.stl is what you're looking for.

[TylerR]

Thats the motor I use. Main_Body_M634JS.stl is what you're looking for.

Yeah huge size difference between those two motors. Honestly I think that 634JS motor might be the best one after the McMcaster motor. I saw your pics and it seems to work out nicely.

As a side note, I modified all the bodies to accept the electronics box on either the right or left hand side.

[Anuccite]

Thats the motor I use. Main_Body_M634JS.stl is what you're looking for.


Yeah huge size difference between those two motors. Honestly I think that 634JS motor might be the best one after the McMcaster motor. I saw your pics and it seems to work out nicely.

As a side note, I modified all the bodies to accept the electronics box on either the right or left hand side.

I'm going to print a new base.... and also order the other motor JGY370 To mess with this base (Since it came out so good!)

[HuskJ]

Try comma, your regional setting may affect that...

Tried comma, it changes 11,5 to 115. When I try to type 11.5 for the 45 ACP all it allows me to type is 11.

[HuskJ]

Tried comma, it changes 11,5 to 115. When I try to type 11.5 for the 45 ACP all it allows me to type is 11.

I figured it out, I couldn't updated it to 11.5 in openscad so I just used a txt editor to change the default value from 9 to 11.5 and boom it works.

[Assnolax]

Yes I'm using the straight shot funnel adapter.

The increased angle and increasing rigidity of the whole setup seems to have me on the right track.

Thank you very much.

[Anuccite]

o416, Tyler....

Drophole and drop tube adapters... I bought the Amazon Spring which was reverse thread....

The Spring OD is 12.58, ID 9.99

What I noticed is when I printed the Adapter #9 is that it only has a diameter of 9.2. at the thread end...

In Summary, If you are using the below spring Use the #10 Adapter. and Follow the Mirror advice in the manual. In case that is not clear to some....

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N59WJ96/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[TylerR]

Yes I'm using the straight shot funnel adapter.

The increased angle and increasing rigidity of the whole setup seems to have me on the right track.

Thank you very much.

Just so you know, you got me back working on some other ideas for making base up case feeding more reliable. I have some new ideas based on stuff I did with the long bullet plate using pre-drop and such.

[Anuccite]

I know.... you guys like the red and Green Press....

274656

[lablover]

Just so you know, you got me back working on some other ideas for making base up case feeding more reliable. I have some new ideas based on stuff I did with the long bullet plate using pre-drop and such.



Oh boy! Wooohooooo

[TylerR]

Oh boy! Wooohooooo

Here is my latest out of the last 5 I designed and printed. Not much different then what I have now but some slight changes that make huge differences. And of course all the cool lightning cuts. :)

274671

[TylerR]

o416, Tyler....

Drophole and drop tube adapters... I bought the Amazon Spring which was reverse thread....

The Spring OD is 12.58, ID 9.99

What I noticed is when I printed the Adapter #9 is that it only has a diameter of 9.2. at the thread end...

In Summary, If you are using the below spring Use the #10 Adapter. and Follow the Mirror advice in the manual. In case that is not clear to some....

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N59WJ96/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks for this clarification. I am sure some people will find it handy. It makes sense that you need the #10 adapter, since the spring is 9.99 ID.

[lablover]

Here is my latest out of the last 5 I designed and printed. Not much different then what I have now but some slight changes that make huge differences. And of course all the cool lightning cuts. :)

274671

Now this is for base up correct? Can’t wait to try it

[TylerR]

Now this is for base up correct? Can’t wait to try it

Yes. My nemesis. There is a reason no one else offers this feature.

[o416]

What is new in 1.3.4?

[o416]

Also, is the long_sweeper for base_down or base_up brass. I put base_down in the manual but your video only uses it for base_up.

I may need to change that :)

[GWS]

Look in Post 2413.....Tyler's video there uses the long_sweeper for base down, and was the reason I printed it and now use it successfully base down. Someday I'll try base up.....so many things to make....so little time left in this life.;)

Tomorrow another project......mirrors over my case and bullet collators.........I'm too dang short .....can't see what's going on! :violin:

I'm thinking of mounting mirrors on the edge of an upper shelf, hanging at a 45 degree angle toward my collators. I bought a couple of 12"x12" mirrors at Hobby Lobby......now to figure out an anchor and/or hanging system..... adjustable angle would be nice......we will see....

[Anuccite]

Look in Post 2413.....Tyler's video there uses the long_sweeper for base down, and was the reason I printed it and now use it successfully base down. Someday I'll try base up.....so many things to make....so little time left in this life.;)

Tomorrow another project......mirrors over my case and bullet collators.........I'm too dang short .....can't see what's going on! :violin:

I'm thinking of mounting mirrors on the edge of an upper shelf, hanging at a 45 degree angle toward my collators. I bought a couple of 12"x12" mirrors at Hobby Lobby......now to figure out an anchor and/or hanging system..... adjustable angle would be nice......we will see....

I like this... I've been meaning to get myself one as well.... I currently utilize a 5 gallon bucket if I really need to see what's going on!

[TylerR]

Look in Post 2413.....Tyler's video there uses the long_sweeper for base down, and was the reason I printed it and now use it successfully base down. Someday I'll try base up.....so many things to make....so little time left in this life.;)

Tomorrow another project......mirrors over my case and bullet collators.........I'm too dang short .....can't see what's going on! :violin:

I'm thinking of mounting mirrors on the edge of an upper shelf, hanging at a 45 degree angle toward my collators. I bought a couple of 12"x12" mirrors at Hobby Lobby......now to figure out an anchor and/or hanging system..... adjustable angle would be nice......we will see....

Correct. Long sweeper is really for base down rifle brass, but probably doesn't hurt using it on base down pistol brass as well. Short sweeper is for base up brass and long bullets using the #11 slides.

[TylerR]

What is new in 1.3.4?

Nothing worth mentioning. Just a lot of small tweaks.

I will be adding the "Spring_Drop_Tube_Adapter" which we talked about. It is basically a drop tube without any of the middle part. So you can connect a spring adapter directly to a feed die.

[GWS]

Here's the concept, using 12x12 inch mirror from Hobby Lobby.

https://i.postimg.cc/VLvdBKjC/Screenshot-2021-01-05-182334.png

Three printed parts with a 1/4" all thread with wing nuts on each end, so you can set your angle to whatever.

This is a picture of the Gcode on my slicer.....8 hours worth.....tonight while I sleep....here's hoping for no spaghetti.;)

https://i.postimg.cc/c1Xvnp8W/Screenshot-2021-01-05-183209.png

[TylerR]

Who wants to be the guinea pigs for my new brass base up plates?
Even tough they look very similar, there are two small major changes that make a difference.
I posted the large version. Be sure to use the new "Brass_Base_Up_Drop_Hole_Adapter" as well. Working on small one now.

[GWS]

Who wants to be the guinea pigs for my new brass base up plates?
Even tough they look very similar, there are two small major changes that make a difference.
I posted the large version. Be sure to use the new "Brass_Base_Up_Drop_Hole_Adapter" as well. Working on small one now.

Wish I could, but I've got to buy one more motor, print up another big base, first. Then I plan on it! I'm especially stoked now that I can see without a ladder.:)

Today's project actually even worked the first print! ;) I was just stressed out not being able to see up there.......Cost was $6 per mirror, $3 for 3' of 1/4" threaded rod which I cut 8" off to use.....plenty left for another one.....and other projects.

Video first, then a few pictures.....then I'll shut up for a while, while I print anuther marathon base.....so I can start printing all your APP goodies & playing with the APP.


https://youtu.be/Awsb883YV-g

https://i.postimg.cc/zDcT3qXs/IMG-3786.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/PrvYw0CP/IMG-3787.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/52cvqpzp/IMG-3788.jpg

[stanford]

I don't know if this has been addressed in this entire thread but how do you know which drop tube works with which caliber? I didn't see anything in the help file.

[o416]

I don't know if this has been addressed in this entire thread but how do you know which drop tube works with which caliber? I didn't see anything in the help file.

Page 14 of the manual says:
"The chart below will help you decide which drop tube size you will need based on the base diameter of the brass and bullets being used."

Measure the base of your bullet/brass and match it with the chart. You will have your tube number :)

[Assnolax]

Who wants to be the guinea pigs for my new brass base up plates?
Even tough they look very similar, there are two small major changes that make a difference.
I posted the large version. Be sure to use the new "Brass_Base_Up_Drop_Hole_Adapter" as well. Working on small one now.

I'll give them a test. I have the set up pretty well dialed in with a case ending up base down maybe 1 in 250 but that is at a hair under 4rpm. Appreciate it all, we give you our thanks.

The more common issue now is with the lee app. I noticed that with handle fully down there isn't anything to keep the fingers in the fully open position to receive the brass. I have clamped a small piece of foam to keep some tension and that seems to have done it. I can take some pictures if I haven't explained it well.

[TylerR]

Wish I could, but I've got to buy one more motor, print up another big base, first. Then I plan on it! I'm especially stoked now that I can see without a ladder.:)

Today's project actually even worked the first print! ;) I was just stressed out not being able to see up there.......Cost was $6 per mirror, $3 for 3' of 1/4" threaded rod which I cut 8" off to use.....plenty left for another one.....and other projects.

Video first, then a few pictures.....then I'll shut up for a while, while I print anuther marathon base.....so I can start printing all your APP goodies & playing with the APP.



That is a pretty awesome setup man. Wish I had that.

[TylerR]

I'll give them a test. I have the set up pretty well dialed in with a case ending up base down maybe 1 in 250 but that is at a hair under 4rpm. Appreciate it all, we give you our thanks.

The more common issue now is with the lee app. I noticed that with handle fully down there isn't anything to keep the fingers in the fully open position to receive the brass. I have clamped a small piece of foam to keep some tension and that seems to have done it. I can take some pictures if I haven't explained it well.

I believe I know what you are saying, and I am doing some work to make the tolerances a bit tighter which should prevent the slide from moving too easily on the rail.

[GWS]

TylerR, what do you mean? You have that and more.....and younger and healthier to boot. ;) If it wasn't for the 3 musketeers, you, RedlegEd, and ARBossman, and Dartanian, I wouldn't even have a 3d printer let alone have all this fun. Big thankyou to you guys. The hardest thing is to find ways to give back.

I realize that not every one has shelves above to mount such a thing.....if adding one isn't in the desires or plans, then I wonder if we can figure out a mount on the ceiling....even a hanging one?

BTW, what do you think of this? https://leeprecision.com/automatic-case-primer-press.html

[TylerR]

TylerR, what do you mean? You have that and more.....and younger and healthier to boot. ;) If it wasn't for the 3 musketeers, you, RedlegEd, and ARBossman, and Dartanian, I wouldn't even have a 3d printer let alone have all this fun. Big thankyou to you guys. The hardest thing is to find ways to give back.

I realize that not every one has shelves above to mount such a thing.....if adding one isn't in the desires or plans, then I wonder if we can figure out a mount on the ceiling....even a hanging one?

BTW, what do you think of this? https://leeprecision.com/automatic-case-primer-press.html

Thanks GWS. That priming tool looks pretty cool. Not sure it is something I would use. But just looking at the design it appears that it would be a direct interface to the APP parts already made.

[TylerR]

OK just posted what will be the final version of the large base up plate and funnel. There a are quite a few changes to make it more reliable. I am posting a video that shows the angle I am running the feeder at and how fast I can successfully go with it.


https://youtu.be/_EwP6jgrOrg

[Anuccite]

TylerR, what do you mean? You have that and more.....and younger and healthier to boot. ;) If it wasn't for the 3 musketeers, you, RedlegEd, and ARBossman, and Dartanian, I wouldn't even have a 3d printer let alone have all this fun. Big thankyou to you guys. The hardest thing is to find ways to give back.

I realize that not every one has shelves above to mount such a thing.....if adding one isn't in the desires or plans, then I wonder if we can figure out a mount on the ceiling....even a hanging one?

BTW, what do you think of this? https://leeprecision.com/automatic-case-primer-press.html

What about a mount that attaches to rim of feeder? could be used for factory case feeders as well

[RedlegEd]

What about a mount that attaches to rim of feeder? could be used for factory case feeders as well

Hi all,
I just sent that same note to GWS. Here's an example of a mirror sold by Inline Fabrication (BTW, Dan makes some great stuff!) I'm planning on making something similar, except using acrylic mirror sheets (https://smile.amazon.com/Adhesive-Acrylic-Flexible-Stickers-Sticker/dp/B087JTDZ2N/ref=sr_1_24?dchild=1&keywords=acrylic+mirror&qid=1610041367&sr=8-24) as they are much lighter than glass, and you can cut/drill them easily.
Ed
274902

[o416]

What about a mount that attaches to rim of feeder? could be used for factory case feeders as well

We have one for the Dillon. Please look at the manual.

[TylerR]

We have one for the Dillon. Please look at the manual.

I think he is talking about GWS's new mirror mount.

[TylerR]

So I am going to take another shot at an angled funnel for the base up brass feeding. Making no promises though :)

[o416]

I think he is talking about GWS's new mirror mount.

My bad!

[Assnolax]

Tyler, I printed the new base up parts to try out. Big improvement on flipping the brass and having it end up in the collator plate ready to drop next round, I don't think I noticed any dropping back into the loose brass in the case feeder while I was watching. I was also able to crank up the rpm. I was getting a few falling base down but backed the slide out a touch and that seemed to have fixed it. Is that hole in the back for an adjustment set screw?

[lablover]

Who wants to be the guinea pigs for my new brass base up plates?
Even tough they look very similar, there are two small major changes that make a difference.
I posted the large version. Be sure to use the new "Brass_Base_Up_Drop_Hole_Adapter" as well. Working on small one now.


I’ll give it a shot this weekend

[TylerR]

Tyler, I printed the new base up parts to try out. Big improvement on flipping the brass and having it end up in the collator plate ready to drop next round, I don't think I noticed any dropping back into the loose brass in the case feeder while I was watching. I was also able to crank up the rpm. I was getting a few falling base down but backed the slide out a touch and that seemed to have fixed it. Is that hole in the back for an adjustment set screw?

Yes all the plates have them. I would say if everything is working well but you still get occasional base down you should up the feeder angle more. I tried to show how steep mine is running at in the beginning of the video.

[TylerR]

So I am going to take another shot at an angled funnel for the base up brass feeding. Making no promises though :)

I have managed to prove once again that an angled funnel just does not work. I have created a shorter version of the original however and getting good results with that.

[Rodvan]

Bingo. I just created a new base to match this motor here:
https://www.amazon.com/Greartisan-Self-Locking-Reversible-Reduction-Electric/dp/B07YBXMTWC/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8&th=1
Tyler, what base for this motor? And thanks to you and the other guys for making this!

[TylerR]

Tyler, what base for this motor? And thanks to you and the other guys for making this!

Main_Body_M634JS

[Rodvan]

Thanks

[TylerR]

Thanks

Anytime. Be sure to check out the manual as it has all the info you need including motor selection.

[Anuccite]

Main_Body_M634JS

As an FYI.... the link in the User manual for the 645JS does not bring you to the Greartisan motor.... It's a different brand.... Mounts may be the same.

Side note, Printing that base VS the JGY370 I'm finding that I can't use the same screws to secure the (F) Drop hole adapter... What size screws do you recommend for that?

Edit: My Screws are Tiny... like 1.5x7mm

[GWS]

Thanks GWS. That priming tool looks pretty cool. Not sure it is something I would use. But just looking at the design it appears that it would be a direct interface to the APP parts already made.

I like my RCBS APS bench primer best so far, but LEE's case feeder feature is a real tempter. They are obviously using the APP base, so the next question is why oh why didn't they just offer a priming option for the APP. They think everyone has unlimited bench space?......or storage for quick change mounted tools for that matter. ;)


OK just posted what will be the final version of the large base up plate and funnel. There a are quite a few changes to make it more reliable. I am posting a video that shows the angle I am running the feeder at and how fast I can successfully go with it.

Really nice! Perfecto! I need to coax my nephew into making me anuther couple of steel tube mounts!.....I may eventually have trouble getting to my books behind all the collators!

[GWS]

Hi all,
I just sent that same note to GWS. Here's an example of a mirror sold by Inline Fabrication (BTW, Dan makes some great stuff!) I'm planning on making something similar, except using acrylic mirror sheets (https://smile.amazon.com/Adhesive-Acrylic-Flexible-Stickers-Sticker/dp/B087JTDZ2N/ref=sr_1_24?dchild=1&keywords=acrylic+mirror&qid=1610041367&sr=8-24) as they are much lighter than glass, and you can cut/drill them easily.
Ed

I am on the cheap side.....$6 was a factor....I like the 12" size and the acrylic mirrors that size are more. The mount is because I have shelves. I notice many didn't feel the need for shelves, and I'm thinking where's all the other goodies stored?

I found and used these "Z" shelf supports for my garage shelves. Placed every 4' or so. Made it really simple for lazy people like me. But they only come in 36 pieces.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/WFX-Utility-Joaquin-Z-Shelf-Bracket-Set-of-36/22941400?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1148&&adid=22222222227000000000&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=42423897272&wl4=pla-51320962143&wl5=9030489&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=112562587&wl11=online&wl12=22941400&veh=sem&gclid=CjwKCAiAouD_BRBIEiwALhJH6CMyU9ehZ1b52hGtB1Sw Xfu9OQFqP-GiVRba7-ATcpr87RtTaAsTahoC4iEQAvD_BwE

Cheapest price I found.....maybe people could do an order together.... I used 4 over my 8' bench. 4 more on another wall. Years ago when I bought mine, a lumber yard had them by the piece.....can't find such today....just 36 at a time. Then I just ripped a 3/4" sheet of plywood into 4 12" strips......done but the edging. Tuff as nails galvanized steel Z shelf standard.

https://i.postimg.cc/Qx8GrYXn/z-shelf-standard.jpg

[TylerR]

Really nice! Perfecto! I need to coax my nephew into making me anuther couple of steel tube mounts!.....I may eventually have trouble getting to my books behind all the collators!

I am going to drop a new release today sometime that will have all the latest for APP and brass base up.

[Anuccite]

Quite a size difference between the JGY370 and the Greartisan Motors....

275046

[lostpilotz]

What size wire are ya'll using to wire all the electronic components together?

[o416]

What size wire are ya'll using to wire all the electronic components together?

That depends on the amps running through your system, mainly your motor.

I have used a combination of 18 and 22 gauge with no issues.

[lostpilotz]

That depends on the amps running through your system, mainly your motor.

I have used a combination of 18 and 22 gauge with no issues.

I am using this motor - https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-DC-Gearmotor-12VDC-52JE51 with this - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RGHBLGC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1 power supply. I have some 20ga garage door wire laying around

[o416]

I am going to drop a new release today sometime that will have all the latest for APP and brass base up.

Did you post new files? I still see 1.3.4

[TylerR]

Did you post new files? I still see 1.3.4

No. I hit a bump with the base up and am still working on it.

[tanders]

So, Just a nice little progress jump on how my motors are operating. I am using an Arduino motor shield and reading the power consumption of the motors. If the actual power consumption is higher than allowable (adjusted with a potentiometer) the power to the motor is shut off and an LED light turns on.

https://imgur.com/VvMJm5T

[TylerR]

So, Just a nice little progress jump on how my motors are operating. I am using an Arduino motor shield and reading the power consumption of the motors. If the actual power consumption is higher than allowable (adjusted with a potentiometer) the power to the motor is shut off and an LED light turns on.

https://imgur.com/VvMJm5T

I must say that is a very cool electronics setup you created there. I apologize for not responding to your PM right away but I have been working 14 hour days this weekend.
Based on the pics you sent me that setup is way beyond most peoples knowledge to understand. You would have to put together a pretty detailed diagram and description for anyone else to recreate.

Very very cool though.

[bigmike111]

Hey guys, I’m back trying to finish getting my collator set up for base down 223 but have been running into some issues. I’m using HPBT bullets and I have a good amount in the plate that are base up and not catching the slide plate and dropping base up as well as bullets that are base down being flipped to base up.

I’ve tried adjusting the slide plate with a set screw, adjusting the speed of the motor as well as the angle. Is there an optimal angle? Are HP/boat tails harder to get to work properly? Is there an optimal angle for base down?

Also this last test I had some issues with getting bullets stuck, I actually damaged the collator plate from the Grainger motor with a drilled roll pin. I noticed that the plate is extremely loose with the drilled shaft and wonder if that’s causing some issues. Contemplating making something to center the plate better or possibly switch to the hex plates.

I think I may have printed the slide plate and the ramp in 0.2, not sure if this matters but I think I’m going to re-print at 0.12.

I might even try a different bullet/caliber and come back to 223.

Mike

[TylerR]

Hey guys, I’m back trying to finish getting my collator set up for base down 223 but have been running into some issues. I’m using HPBT bullets and I have a good amount in the plate that are base up and not catching the slide plate and dropping base up as well as bullets that are base down being flipped to base up.

I’ve tried adjusting the slide plate with a set screw, adjusting the speed of the motor as well as the angle. Is there an optimal angle? Are HP/boat tails harder to get to work properly? Is there an optimal angle for base down?

Also this last test I had some issues with getting bullets stuck, I actually damaged the collator plate from the Grainger motor with a drilled roll pin. I noticed that the plate is extremely loose with the drilled shaft and wonder if that’s causing some issues. Contemplating making something to center the plate better or possibly switch to the hex plates.

I think I may have printed the slide plate and the ramp in 0.2, not sure if this matters but I think I’m going to re-print at 0.12.

I might even try a different bullet/caliber and come back to 223.

Mike

You did not mention who's files you are using but the quickest way I can help you is to post a video.

[bigmike111]

Using your 1.2 files.

I have some videos I will upload and post shortly.

[bigmike111]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVvxfwC98pg

[TylerR]

Using your 1.2 files.

I have some videos I will upload and post shortly.

Very helpful. I see a number of things going on. First off, your slide plate is pulled out too far. That is why some nose downs are not falling off the ridge and flipping. Second, you are not running the feeder at quite enough angle. And lastly, I think you need to print a taller collator plate. The bullets seem a bit tall for the stock plate. What grain are they? Also, if you generate a new plate you can adjust the shaft and slot diameter to tighten things up.

[bigmike111]

Very helpful. I see a number of things going on. First off, your slide plate is pulled out too far. That is why some nose downs are not falling off the ridge and flipping. Second, you are not running the feeder at quite enough angle. And lastly, I think you need to print a taller collator plate. The bullets seem a bit tall for the stock plate. What grain are they? Also, if you generate a new plate you can adjust the shaft and slot diameter to tighten things up.

These are 62 Grain. I tested the slide plate at several different lengths. If it was all the way in it was flipping just about everything regardless of orientation, this is the best I could get it to not catch the boat tail.

What is the optimal angle for the feeder?

I need to print another plate anyway as this one is damaged. Will the taller plate work for 55grain bullets or is it too high?

I am going to re-print some parts and circle back.

[TylerR]

These are 62 Grain. I tested the slide plate at several different lengths. If it was all the way in it was flipping just about everything regardless of orientation, this is the best I could get it to not catch the boat tail.

What is the optimal angle for the feeder?

I need to print another plate anyway as this one is damaged. Will the taller plate work for 55grain bullets or is it too high?

I am going to re-print some parts and circle back.

When you are dealing with very little difference between the base of the bullet and the point diameter wise, it is going to be tricky to find the sweet spot. That is the situation with BTHP. For bullet feeding 45 degrees of tilt should be good, but play around with it. The taller plate should work fine for the shorter bullets.

Just to add, I have suspected the pivot point concept I came up with for feeding brass base up would help in these situations with BTHP and beveled based cast boolits, but I have never experimented with it.

[bigmike111]

When you are dealing with very little difference between the base of the bullet and the point diameter wise, it is going to be tricky to find the sweet spot. That is the situation with BTHP. For bullet feeding 45 degrees of tilt should be good, but play around with it. The taller plate should work fine for the shorter bullets.

Just to add, I have suspected the pivot point concept I came up with for feeding brass base up would help in these situations with BTHP and beveled based cast boolits, but I have never experimented with it.

Thanks, I will look into it.

Another question, I am playing around with the Collator Generator in Open SCAD and noticed for 223 the manual says set the caliber to 5.69, however, I am only able to enter whole numbers here. Am I missing something here or is there something better to be using to generate the plates?

[TylerR]

Thanks, I will look into it.

Another question, I am playing around with the Collator Generator in Open SCAD and noticed for 223 the manual says set the caliber to 5.69, however, I am only able to enter whole numbers here. Am I missing something here or is there something better to be using to generate the plates?

You are the second person to have this issue. I am not an openscad expert but it makes no sense. I am really at a loss on this one. Where are you going to download it from?

is it here? And if so are you using the zip file or .exe installer? Windows version? 32 or 64 bit version? This one is above my pay grade :)
http://www.openscad.org/downloads.html

[bigmike111]

You are the second person to have this issue. I am not an openscad expert but it makes no sense. I am really at a loss on this one. Where are you going to download it from?

is it here?
http://www.openscad.org/downloads.html

What can I say, it all comes naturally. lol

Yes, I downloaded it straight from there. I will uninstall and re-install just to see. Running windows 10.

Also, I can enter decimal values on on everything else, just not on the calibers.

[RedlegEd]

Thanks, I will look into it.

Another question, I am playing around with the Collator Generator in Open SCAD and noticed for 223 the manual says set the caliber to 5.69, however, I am only able to enter whole numbers here. Am I missing something here or is there something better to be using to generate the plates?

Hi Mike,
Are you getting an error when you enter the 5.69? I just opened the file from the latest zip file in openScad version 2019.05 and it works fine.
Ed

[TylerR]

What can I say, it all comes naturally. lol

Yes, I downloaded it straight from there. I will uninstall and re-install just to see. Running windows 10.

Also, I can enter decimal values on on everything else, just not on the calibers.

Are you copying and pasting from the examples? Is there a semicolon after the number?

Also just to add, v1.2 of my files is a long way from where we are now. I am going to post the latest tomorrow. Running my last test on case base up tonight.

Another thought. Have you read o416's manual?

[bigmike111]

Hi Mike,
Are you getting an error when you enter the 5.69? I just opened the file from the latest zip file in openScad version 2019.05 and it works fine.
Ed

Hi Ed, I dont get an error, it will take any length of number and I can enter a decimal but it will not allow me to enter any digits after the decimal.

[bigmike111]

Are you copying and pasting from the examples? Is there a semicolon after the number?

Also just to add, v1.2 of my files is a long way from where we are now. I am going to post the latest tomorrow. Running my last test on case base up tonight.

Another thought. Have you read o416's manual?

I was entering values manually, I just tried to copy and paste and it doesn't allow me to paste anything. There is no semicolons.

Also, I noticed that if there is a decimal value somewhere else in the parameters I can change it, but I can only change it to one decimal place.

[TylerR]

I was entering values manually, I just tried to copy and paste and it doesn't allow me to paste anything. There is no semicolons.

Also, I noticed that if there is a decimal value somewhere else in the parameters I can change it, but I can only change it to one decimal place.

I will honestly admit I have no idea, since my version of openscad is just basically like typing in to notepad. If there is a syntax error it will tell me when I hit F5. Other then that I could type whatever the heck I want. Is this some new GUI version?

I just dropped the openscad installer I have to my downloads folder.

[TylerR]

OK I think I figured it out. You guys are trying to make changes using the "Customizer" panel, and not just using the editor to edit the text?

Go to "View" and show the "Editor" and hide the "Customizer"

[bigmike111]

OK I think I figured it out. You guys are trying to make changes using the "Customizer" panel, and not just using the editor to edit the text?

Go to "View" and show the "Editor" and hide the "Customizer"

Problem solved. Now to find my way around the editor.

I guess all I need to do is go through and find the specific items to change, no different than the customizer, correct?

[TylerR]

Problem solved. Now to find my way around the editor.

I guess all I need to do is go through and find the specific items to change, no different than the customizer, correct?

Good. Yes, you will find it is all well documented. As a coder I have tried to make a point of that. And read the manual as it covers a lot of it as well.

[bigmike111]

Out of curiosity, what is the difference between the editor and the customizer?

I guess it doesn't matter at this point, but if you change the values in the editor to 5.001 decimal places, it shows up in the customizer as 5.001.

[TylerR]

Out of curiosity, what is the difference between the editor and the customizer?

I guess it doesn't matter at this point, but if you change the values in the editor to 5.001 decimal places, it shows up in the customizer as 5.001.

I didn't know the customizer panel existed until 10 minutes ago, so your guess is as good as mine. :)

I assume it is supposed to offer a more GUI interface for non code oriented people, but clearly presents issues.

[bigmike111]

Good. Yes, you will find it is all well documented. As a coder I have tried to make a point of that. And read the manual as it covers a lot of it as well.

I think what threw me off was that when I opened the program the customizer was open but not the editor. So I went straight to the table to find out what the different values were and missed the editor section.

[bigmike111]

I didn't know the customizer panel existed until 10 minutes ago, so your guess is as good as mine. :)

I can say the same for the editor also. hahaha

[TylerR]

I can say the same for the editor also. hahaha

:drinks:

[bigmike111]

I didn't know the customizer panel existed until 10 minutes ago, so your guess is as good as mine. :)

I assume it is supposed to offer a more GUI interface for non code oriented people, but clearly presents issues.

I think if the file was modified to have the settings with two decimal points for each setting it would have worked.

Don't waste your time to change anything for me and the one other person who cant follow directions. ;)

[bigmike111]

Thanks for your help (again) BTW.

[TylerR]

Thanks for your help (again) BTW.

Living in a country where we can just manufacture votes out of thin air, and the ballot box no longer means anything, these little wins at least make us all feel a little better.
:dung_hits_fan::guntootsmiley:

[bigmike111]

Living in a country where we can just manufacture votes out of thin air, and the ballot box no longer means anything, these little wins at least make us all feel a little better.
:dung_hits_fan::guntootsmiley:

That’s the truth.

We’re on box number 3 of the Four Boxes of Liberty. Next up is the cartridge box.

Hence the need to get the collator up and running. Lol

[TylerR]

That’s the truth.

We’re on box number 3 of the Four Boxes of Liberty. Next up is the cartridge box.

Hence the need to get the collator up and running. Lol

Amen my friend, and I know this is not the place for this so I will only say this. We are very lucky to be able to communicate via this website. We just met 45 minutes ago but probably have more in common with each other then our neighbors (depending on where you live), but websites like this truly amazing place will be all on the chopping block very soon, based on the last few days actions. Then what? Feel free to PM me your answer :)

[bigmike111]

Amen my friend, and I know this is not the place for this so I will only say this. We are very lucky to be able to communicate via this website. We just met 45 minutes ago but probably have more in common with each other then our neighbors (depending on where you live), but websites like this truly amazing place will be all on the chopping block very soon, based on the last few days actions. Then what? Feel free to PM me your answer :)

I can assure you I have more in common with you than my neighbors, I at least know your name!

[Anuccite]

I didn't know the customizer panel existed until 10 minutes ago, so your guess is as good as mine. :)

I had to re-open SCAD just to see what this customizer panel was! Took me a minute to realize it was there!

[stanford]

I had to re-open SCAD just to see what this customizer panel was! Took me a minute to realize it was there!

That's weird, when I first used openscad the customizer is the first window I saw. I was in the same boat as bigmike because I couldn't enter in two digits after the decimal point. After reading these last few posts I closed the customizer and started using the editor.

TylerR, you code for a living and I code for fun or hobby stuff. I just can't say enough about that manual that you put together, it is more complete than anything that micro$oft ever did. Everytime I look at the manual I just have to shake my head and say dang, this guy thought of everything.

[TylerR]

That's weird, when I first used openscad the customizer is the first window I saw. I was in the same boat as bigmike because I couldn't enter in two digits after the decimal point. After reading these last few posts I closed the customizer and started using the editor.

TylerR, you code for a living and I code for fun or hobby stuff. I just can't say enough about that manual that you put together, it is more complete than anything that micro$oft ever did. Everytime I look at the manual I just have to shake my head and say dang, this guy thought of everything.

Thank you, I appreciate that. I want to be clear about the manual, it was a collaborative effort between o416 and myself, but he really did all the heavy lifting. So big shout out to him. He really did a great job.

[noacess]

Amen my friend, and I know this is not the place for this so I will only say this. We are very lucky to be able to communicate via this website. We just met 45 minutes ago but probably have more in common with each other then our neighbors (depending on where you live), but websites like this truly amazing place will be all on the chopping block very soon, based on the last few days actions. Then what? Feel free to PM me your answer :)

+1 on this. Although I do wish this website had SSL (https for the layman).

[lostpilotz]

Is it a mistake that the instruction manual links 10mm led lights? I found that 5 mm fit in the Drop_Tube_LED_Sensor_Knob .

[TylerR]

Is it a mistake that the instruction manual links 10mm led lights? I found that 5 mm fit in the Drop_Tube_LED_Sensor_Knob .

They should be 5mm yes. Something like this works:
https://www.amazon.com/L125WM-20pcs-Wired-White-Layout/dp/B07DWJ7FLH/ref=pd_sbs_79_37?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07DW5VYCG&pd_rd_r=534f4901-48ef-4a4a-b2bd-79f5c5c77f2b&pd_rd_w=rrtKx&pd_rd_wg=mxcmH&pf_rd_p=3ec6a47e-bf65-49f8-80f7-0d7c7c7ce2ca&pf_rd_r=JRJRBHZGEEQQK60HFQ1Y&refRID=JRJRBHZGEEQQK60HFQ1Y&th=1

[bigmike111]

Amen my friend, and I know this is not the place for this so I will only say this. We are very lucky to be able to communicate via this website. We just met 45 minutes ago but probably have more in common with each other then our neighbors (depending on where you live), but websites like this truly amazing place will be all on the chopping block very soon, based on the last few days actions. Then what? Feel free to PM me your answer :)

If you haven’t heard, ARF COM has been kicked from go daddy.

I think what you said is closer than everyone thinks. :(

[TylerR]

If you haven’t heard, ARF COM has been kicked from go daddy.

I think what you said is closer than everyone thinks. :(

I just found that out. So far its just a DNS issue because of godaddy, but the whole site it hosted on AWS(Amazon) who of course just shut down Parler, so the writing is on the wall. **** is coming and its coming fast. Buckle up cause in 6 months (or less) we are going to be in a whole nother place.

[TylerR]

Ok so back to the topic. I have just posted a new release of the project. v1.3.5

Main updates:
- Brass base up has been reworked to be more reliable
- Based on recent feedback increased height of standard rifle plates to 20mm
- o416 has created a new parts generator app that is very cool. It is a gui interface that helps to select the files to you need to complete your project. He also documented it in the manual on page 18. great work man!


-

[Rcmaveric]

I am almost tempted to design a PCB that incorporates two LDR controlled relays and two PWMs. My project box for my case feeder and bullet feeder is large and packed. Not to mention I could have made a few boards for the price I paid for one setup.

RPI and Arduino are fun. But not for the non technical skilled. Anolog systems are easy for everyone to understand.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[o416]

Thx Tyler!

I hope the GUI application helps those new to the project to easily get the parts that they need to build your project :)


Ok so back to the topic. I have just posted a new release of the project. v1.3.5

Main updates:
- Brass base up has been reworked to be more reliable
- Based on recent feedback increased height of standard rifle plates to 20mm
- o416 has created a new parts generator app that is very cool. It is a gui interface that helps to select the files to you need to complete your project. He also documented it in the manual on page 18. great work man!


-

[Mark2215]

All I can say is wow. I completed this project back in the beginning of this thread and haven't been paying attention since. You guys have really made some great improvements. Also, the organization is awesome. Keep up the great work!

[Anuccite]

Ok so back to the topic. I have just posted a new release of the project. v1.3.5

Main updates:
- Brass base up has been reworked to be more reliable
- Based on recent feedback increased height of standard rifle plates to 20mm
- o416 has created a new parts generator app that is very cool. It is a gui interface that helps to select the files to you need to complete your project. He also documented it in the manual on page 18. great work man!


-

The Parts Generator is a nice touch.....Well Done o416!

[Anuccite]

Here's a Tip i learned.... Even though 9mm bullets will fit in the #10 adapters and associated spring.... I wouldn't recommend it.

At Slow speeds it will work... but the tolerance is too tight for it to successfully fall in time (all the time)

My original Ammo Mike Print with Large DAA spring (back when that was a thing!)
275206
New Design using #10 Adapter and 12.3mm OD spring
275207

I'm Printing out #13 Adapters to Run with my larger spring

[TylerR]

Here's a Tip i learned.... Even though 9mm bullets will fit in the #10 adapters and associated spring.... I wouldn't recommend it.

At Slow speeds it will work... but the tolerance is too tight for it to successfully fall in time (all the time)

I'm Printing out #13 Adapters to Run with my larger spring

I agree. No reason not to go with the #12 or #13 for 9mm. I would like to also mention there are "Flush" mount adapters, one for #10 and one for #8 that are not offset, but more traditional funnel design.

Edited to add, it also looks like your offset adapter is rotated slightly too much, and not perfectly aligned with the outside wall.

[Anuccite]

Edited to add, it also looks like your offset adapter is rotated slightly too much, and not perfectly aligned with the outside wall.

I was ultimately trying it in different positions the offset on the leading edge produced the best results..

[TylerR]

I was ultimately trying it in different positions the offset on the leading edge produced the best results..

Interesting, good feedback. If you do want to give it a shot you could also try the #10 flush adapter and see how that works for you.

[TylerR]

The Parts Generator is a nice touch.....Well Done o416!

I have to say, I have spent probably hundreds of hours on the design and test prints, but between the manual and now the parts selector o416 has really made this a complete project.

[noacess]

Ok, stupid question before I go printing/designing. My Lee tubes finally came in and I'm trying to determine the correct part to print to go from my 15.5mm OD spring to the 14.5mm OD Lee tube. I know cdstang posted his adapter in post 3235 (Page 162) but it looks like my spring is a bit bigger. The stack in the end would look like this: Collator -> GWS Proximity adapter -> Spring Adapter -> Spring -> Spring to tube adapter (This is what I'm not sure what to use) -> Lee Tube -> LNL AP Case feeder.

Thanks for the help!

[TylerR]

Ok, stupid question before I go printing/designing. My Lee tubes finally came in and I'm trying to determine the correct part to print to go from my 15.5mm OD spring to the 14.5mm OD Lee tube. I know cdstang posted his adapter in post 3235 (Page 162) but it looks like my spring is a bit bigger. The stack in the end would look like this: Collator -> GWS Proximity adapter -> Spring Adapter -> Spring -> Spring to tube adapter (This is what I'm not sure what to use) -> Lee Tube -> LNL AP Case feeder.

Thanks for the help!

Based on what you are asking to do and what we have now you would have to go:
Spring -> drop tube spring adapter -> Spring to Drop Tube Adapter -> -Lee Tube Adapter > Lee Tube -> LNL AP Case feeder.

That is if you want to use GWS's adapter and didn't just go with the standard proximity sensor adapter and drop tube.

[o416]

I have to say, I have spent probably hundreds of hours on the design and test prints, but between the manual and now the parts selector o416 has really made this a complete project.

You set the bar brother :) I am just trying to keep up lol

[noacess]

Based on what you are asking to do and what we have now you would have to go:
Spring -> drop tube spring adapter -> drop tube -> -APP_Drop_Tube_#4_Adapter > Lee Tube -> LNL AP Case feeder.

That is if you want to use GWS's adapter and didn't just go with the standard proximity sensor adapter and drop tube.

Thank you sir! The reason I started with GWS' solution is because I felt like for cases I wanted the sensor closer to the collator so I have a longer queue given that it seemed from my very limited testing that cases feed much slower than bullets. Of course this could all change after I get everything put together and I do some more fiddling.

I think I saw that you have an adapter for mounting the drop tube right below the collator but I'd still need a way to get from the bottom of the drop tube -> spring adapter -> spring -> spring/tube adapter that doesn't exist -> tube Correct?

Thanks again!

[TylerR]

Thank you sir! The reason I started with GWS' solution is because I felt like for cases I wanted the sensor closer to the collator so I have a longer queue given that it seemed from my very limited testing that cases feed much slower than bullets. Of course this could all change after I get everything put together and I do some more fiddling.

I think I saw that you have an adapter for mounting the drop tube right below the collator but I'd still need a way to get from the bottom of the drop tube -> spring adapter -> spring -> spring/tube adapter that doesn't exist -> tube Correct?

Thanks again!

Actually it does. :)

In the adapters folder look at this. It adapts a Spring_Adapter_DT to anything that connects a spirng to a standard DT interface which includes the APP adapters. Currently There is only a large version.
Spring_Drop_Tube_Adapter

Please keep in mind that a lot of these adapters should maybe be in the "experimental" folder, but I figure if someone can dream it up I will design it.

[HuskJ]

Ok, possibly dumb question here but has anyone gotten a 160GN SWC 45 ACP type bullet to work with their feeder? I've been working on getting it to work for my father as that is his preferred bullet outside of the 200 GN. The problem I ran into is due to their size / shape they fall in the collator plate sideways. Picture attached. This weekend I had the idea to take the pivot option intended for the brass plate and print using it. I believe I now have a solution to them falling sideways in the plate and now just need to figure out the ramp and angle to get that little stubby nose to flip each time. Anyhow, just thought I'd ask since I've read and learned so much from this group. Thank you in advance for any ideas. 275248275249

[GWS]

You guys lost me on that exchange. If my proximity sensor solution causes that much confusion and incompatibility with Tylers, you ought to remove it from the data base.....especially if you can do the same thing simpler in your minds. Too many roosters in the hen house just causes confusion.;) Personally, and it is an individual preference, not necessarily better or worse, for bullet feeders, I don't care for all the stuff on top of my feeder dies, preferring just the spring going into the die. You see, the heavy duty springs that came on my Hornady pistol bullet feeder (from which all my pistol feeder mods originated from) handles a stack of bullets fine without distortion. The cheaper springs probably fare better not being full.

As for the case feeder....it's tradition (RCBS,Dillon, Hornady) to have a straight-in clear tube stack with a stop switch just under the collator just like my rendition with Tyler's big base pictured below! ......and that tradition is the only reason I started that way. Well, that and I like to see whats coming.....ok, that and long rifle cases don't as easily bend around a spring like short pistol cases.;)
https://i.postimg.cc/cHwG34zb/IMG_3748.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/jjGrCJMf/IMG_3747.jpg

[o416]

I am using this configuration:
Spring Adapter->Spring Tube->Drop Tube Adapter->Drop Tube->Lee Tube Adapter->Lee Tube->Insert->Main Bracket

The clear tube fills up nicely and even at a very fast speed, I can never beat the collator lol

The height of your collator to your press also plays a factor. I would say mine is about 3-3.5' above my press.


Thank you sir! The reason I started with GWS' solution is because I felt like for cases I wanted the sensor closer to the collator so I have a longer queue given that it seemed from my very limited testing that cases feed much slower than bullets. Of course this could all change after I get everything put together and I do some more fiddling.

I think I saw that you have an adapter for mounting the drop tube right below the collator but I'd still need a way to get from the bottom of the drop tube -> spring adapter -> spring -> spring/tube adapter that doesn't exist -> tube Correct?

Thanks again!

[TylerR]

You guys lost me on that exchange. If my proximity sensor solution causes that much confusion and incompatibility with Tylers, you ought to remove it from the data base.....especially if you can do the same thing simpler in your minds. Too many roosters in the hen house just causes confusion.;) Personally, and it is an individual preference, not necessarily better or worse, for bullet feeders, I don't care for all the stuff on top of my feeder dies, preferring just the spring going into the die. You see, the heavy duty springs that came on my Hornady pistol bullet feeder (from which all my pistol feeder mods originated from) handles a stack of bullets fine without distortion. The cheaper springs probably fare better not being full (This is true).

As for the case feeder....it's tradition (RCBS,Dillon, Hornady) to have a straight-in clear tube stack with a stop switch just under the collator just like my rendition with Tyler's big base pictured below! ......and that tradition is the only reason I started that way. Well, that and I like to see whats coming.....ok, that and long rifle cases don't as easily bend around a spring like short pistol cases.;)


If people want to stop the flow just under the collator with a proximity sensor, your solution is simpler and cleaner. If people want to stop the flow inside the drop tube at the bottom of the spring, then my original solution makes sense. That being said, I decided to create parts that would first allow my drop tube to be connected directly below the collator. Then give people a simple way to have a part at the bottom that transitions back from the spring to a "drop tube" like interface. This second part could be useful for someone using my drop tube under the collator, or your solution.

Here is the thing. I know people want this project to be simple enough for a beginner to understand how to build it, but I am also a big fan of providing options. With what we have now, people can attack their particular solution in many ways, and that is not a bad thing. People need to use their imaginations to some extent to decide what's best for them, even if it might be a little more confusing.

Here are a couple pics showing what could be done using my drop tube at the top. It is using a proximity sensor drop tube just under the collator, drop tube to drop hole adapter, spring adapter, spring, spring to drop tube interface adapter, APP offset connector, APP insert in APP bracket. Sounds like a lot but it's not that bad. It requires two additional parts that yours would not recreating this same setup.

You could also go with a shorter spring and transition right to one of the lee clear tubes like I have in my original video.
And if your collator was positioned directly over the press you skip the spring altogether and just go right to the clear tube.
Options, options, options :)

275260275261275262275263

[lablover]

Ok, possibly dumb question here but has anyone gotten a 160GN SWC 45 ACP type bullet to work with their feeder? I've been working on getting it to work for my father as that is his preferred bullet outside of the 200 GN. The problem I ran into is due to their size / shape they fall in the collator plate sideways. Picture attached. This weekend I had the idea to take the pivot option intended for the brass plate and print using it. I believe I now have a solution to them falling sideways in the plate and now just need to figure out the ramp and angle to get that little stubby nose to flip each time. Anyhow, just thought I'd ask since I've read and learned so much from this group. Thank you in advance for any ideas. 275248275249


I look forward to trying this as I also like the bullet you describe but it’s almost impossible to get to not do what you mention. Look forward to any other testing you have done with this. Great little bullet and super accurate but a pain to load.

[stanford]

Ok so back to the topic. I have just posted a new release of the project. v1.3.5

Main updates:
- Brass base up has been reworked to be more reliable
- Based on recent feedback increased height of standard rifle plates to 20mm
- o416 has created a new parts generator app that is very cool. It is a gui interface that helps to select the files to you need to complete your project. He also documented it in the manual on page 18. great work man!


-

I just ran the app and I must say it is very nice. This is really handy for anyone getting into this venture as they will want to know what to print or not print, ask me how I know this.

Thanks TylerR

[HuskJ]

I look forward to trying this as I also like the bullet you describe but it’s almost impossible to get to not do what you mention. Look forward to any other testing you have done with this. Great little bullet and super accurate but a pain to load.
With the pivot print and a plate height of 11 vs 13 it seems to eliminate the sideways trap but I'll test more this weekend and let you know.

[TylerR]

With the pivot print and a plate height of 11 vs 13 it seems to eliminate the sideways trap but I'll test more this weekend and let you know.

Did you also try making the hole diameter a little smaller as well? That was my first advice to lablover with his short .32acp.

[TylerR]

I just ran the app and I must say it is very nice. This is really handy for anyone getting into this venture as they will want to know what to print or not print, ask me how I know this.

Thanks TylerR

Thank o416. The app is his baby. but I agree completely.

[Falconpunch]

The manual says the bullet inserts can fit on the drop tubes, I have a 9mm insert that won't fit on the 12mm drop tube, but it will on the 9mm drop tube I have. Do I have an older 9mm insert/dropper?

Also Thank you for saying that 12 is better for 9mm bullets, mine kept going in sideways somehow with the 11 and 10 and jamming the feeder. I have no issues feeding now :) but my bullets hang sometimes on the top of the 9mm dropper so I was going to try and use my 12mm drop tube. I need to print the 13mm dropper so I can see how well 45lc works.

[GWS]

..........Here is the thing. I know people want this project to be simple enough for a beginner to understand how to build it, but I am also a big fan of providing options. With what we have now, people can attack their particular solution in many ways, and that is not a bad thing. People need to use their imaginations to some extent to decide what's best for them, even if it might be a little more confusing.

Maybe so, I just don't want to be the cause for unnecessary confusion. Perhaps 0416's manual and app will help. Integration is a good thing if it's done well, without confusing the ideas. Maybe the app is the answer......but I worry about making things too complicated.....you know, too many choices can become quagmire. You're the architect of this project....you need to make it the way you want.

[TylerR]

The manual says the bullet inserts can fit on the drop tubes, I have a 9mm insert that won't fit on the 12mm drop tube, but it will on the 9mm drop tube I have. Do I have an older 9mm insert/dropper?

Also Thank you for saying that 12 is better for 9mm bullets, mine kept going in sideways somehow with the 11 and 10 and jamming the feeder. I have no issues feeding now :) but my bullets hang sometimes on the top of the 9mm dropper so I was going to try and use my 12mm drop tube. I need to print the 13mm dropper so I can see how well 45lc works.

I am not exactly sure what you mean when you say it won't fit, but you can't go from a 12mm drop tube to the 9mm bullet feeder. It has to eventually funnel down to the correct size, and that is ultimately done at the drop tube. That is because the bullets/brass stop in the drop tube, and there can't be a lot of play or things get hung up. If the bullet/brass is just passing through (like the spring), a little extra play doesn't hurt anything.

What you can do though is go 12mm spring adapter -> 12mm spring -> 12mm spring DT adapter -> 9mm drop tube -> 9mm feeding die.

If you examine the drop tubes you will see that the 9mm-13mm will accept any spring up to 13mm. 6mm-8mm drop tubes will accept any spring up to 10mm.

Also you didn't mention if you tried the 10mm flush spring adapter or not. If so, were they hanging in there too?

Maybe o416 can find some eloquent way to add the above to the manual. I leave that to his expertise :)

[TylerR]

Maybe so, I just don't want to be the cause for unnecessary confusion. Perhaps 0416's manual and app will help. Integration is a good thing if it's done well, without confusing the ideas. Maybe the app is the answer......but I worry about making things too complicated.....you know, too many choices can become quagmire. You're the architect of this project....you need to make it the way you want.

As I said for most scenarios where you want the (proximity) sensor right below the collator your solution is cleaner and less parts. So it stays in the project. I just added some parts to copy your solution because I could :)
And also, people need to be able to figure some things out for themselves.

[Falconpunch]

I am not exactly sure what you mean when you say it won't fit, but you can't go from a 12mm drop tube to the 9mm bullet feeder. It has to eventually funnel down to the correct size, and that is ultimately done at the drop tube. That is because the bullets/brass stop in the drop tube, and there can't be a lot of play or things get hung up. If the bullet/brass is just passing through (like the spring), a little extra play doesn't hurt anything.

What you can do though is go 12mm spring adapter -> 12mm spring -> 12mm spring DT adapter -> 9mm drop tube -> 9mm feeding die.

If you examine the drop tubes you will see that the 9mm-13mm will accept any spring up to 13mm. 6mm-8mm drop tubes will accept any spring up to 10mm.

Also you didn't mention if you tried the 10mm flush spring adapter or not. If so, were they hanging in there too?

Maybe o416 can find some eloquent way to add the above to the manual. I leave that to his expertise :)

Ok, I understand now with the drop tube/bullet feed die. I am currently using the 12mm like you said with the 12mm spring to Dt spring into the 9mm drop tube and that is working great. Some are getting caught on the DT spring or right at the top on the 9mm drop tube so I'm going to smooth it out more with acetone. If I tap it, they drop so not a big deal.

Yes jammed with the 10mm flush, I could get get any to feed with the normal 10mm. Less jams with the 11mm, but no jams with the 12 out of 1k 9mm tested through it today.

Im using the Large and small springs from DAA.

Edit, With the 10mm spring adapter my 124gr fmj's aren't dropping straight through, the base is getting caught and stacking up causing the jam. I tried with smoothing with acetone and getting caught.

[Anuccite]

Printing 2 Sets of 223 Dies, Photoswitch tubes, and adapters.... My shooting buddy wants a setup! I'm easily bribed with beer!

FYI... White is so clean looking...

275291

[Anuccite]

Ok, I understand now with the drop tube/bullet feed die. I am currently using the 12mm like you said with the 12mm spring to Dt spring into the 9mm drop tube and that is working great. Some are getting caught on the DT spring or right at the top on the 9mm drop tube so I'm going to smooth it out more with acetone. If I tap it, they drop so not a big deal.

Yes jammed with the 10mm flush, I could get get any to feed with the normal 10mm. Less jams with the 11mm, but no jams with the 12 out of 1k 9mm tested through it today.

Im using the Large and small springs from DAA.

Edit, With the 10mm spring adapter my 124gr fmj's aren't dropping straight through, the base is getting caught and stacking up causing the jam. I tried with smoothing with acetone and getting caught.

Yea, 9mm don't use 10mm Adapters... you should be using large spring, and the #12-13 adapter.. with the 9mm Drop tube

For instance... I have the 9mm Drop tube, using the #13 Adapters with my ~15mm OD spring (I'm using photosensor)

Your large DAA Spring should measure around 15mm OD so you should be using #13 adapters with it for 9mm

[TylerR]

Printing 2 Sets of 223 Dies, Photoswitch tubes, and adapters.... My shooting buddy wants a setup! I'm easily bribed with beer!

FYI... White is so clean looking...



I like it. good on you for setting your buddy up.

[Falconpunch]

I was dumb and had to look up the base specs for 45lc cases. Are there any plans to say do a 14/15mm drop tubes/adapters? I'm probably one of the few doing 45lc on a progressive. The DAA spring is just big enough to let the cases flow down through them. If not I can keep on hand feeding :).

[TylerR]

I was dumb and had to look up the base specs for 45lc cases. Are there any plans to say do a 14/15mm drop tubes/adapters? I'm probably one of the few doing 45lc on a progressive. The DAA spring is just big enough to let the cases flow down through them. If not I can keep on hand feeding :).

The DAA large output spring is over 13mm ID, and the 13mm drop tube and spring adapters are just over 13mm, so with those parts and maybe a little sanding you should be able to get it to work most likely. That being said, there is no technical reason I could not add a 14mm version. You guys just like to put me to work don't you. haha

[Falconpunch]

The DAA large output spring is over 13mm ID, and the 13mm drop tube and spring adapters are just over 13mm, so with those parts and maybe a little sanding you should be able to get it to work most likely. That being said, there is no technical reason I could not add a 14mm version. You guys just like to put me to work don't you. haha

I can sand lol, I didn't know if you had a easy template that could be editable without having to remake the entire thing just for 14mm.

Before I print a drop tube, the 40 bullet insert will fit in the #10 drop tube right?

[TylerR]

I can sand lol, I didn't know if you had a easy template that could be editable without having to remake the entire thing just for 14mm.

Before I print a drop tube, the 40 bullet insert will fit in the #10 drop tube right?

Oh but I do. That's the beauty. :) I mean it's not a "template" exactly, but I do have a starting point. 14mm drop tube and spring adapters Just posted.

40 feeder die should allow 10-11mm drop tube.

Just to clarify, you may have some issues with the 14mm spring tube because it allows a 14mm dia, but the DAA large spring ID is more like 13.5mm. So there is a slight chance things could get caught on the spring on the way down. So going with the 13 and doing some light sanding might still be your best bet. I will let you experiment and report back.

[Falconpunch]

Oh but I do. That's the beauty. :) I mean it's not a "template" exactly, but I do have a starting point. 14mm drop tube and spring adapters Just posted.

40 feeder die should allow 10-11mm drop tube.

Just to clarify, you may have some issues with the 14mm spring tube because it allows a 14mm dia, but the DAA large spring ID is more like 13.5mm. So there is a slight chance things could get caught on the spring on the way down. So going with the 13 and doing some light sanding might still be your best bet. I will let you experiment and report back.

Awesome thank you! I'll print now and report back.

[Falconpunch]

Oh but I do. That's the beauty. :) I mean it's not a "template" exactly, but I do have a starting point. 14mm drop tube and spring adapters Just posted.

40 feeder die should allow 10-11mm drop tube.

Just to clarify, you may have some issues with the 14mm spring tube because it allows a 14mm dia, but the DAA large spring ID is more like 13.5mm. So there is a slight chance things could get caught on the spring on the way down. So going with the 13 and doing some light sanding might still be your best bet. I will let you experiment and report back.

Happy to report back that it's working perfectly! Thank you for creating the files. Some of the cases shoot down, some like to gumball swirl down but no issues getting through the Adapters or drop tube.

Now I get need to get my hands on some 460 sw brass :) I think that will definitely max out of the spring ID.

[stanford]

Just some input to help folks when printing and fitting parts. If anyone has issues with parts not fitting properly after its printed, this is the best way to go about it. I don't sand my prints anymore, I used to do it years ago but stopped because you could see the sand paper marks or the discoloration from sanding on the prints. Plus, sanding takes a long time compared to softening the plastic briefly.

1. Use a heat gun on the part that you are trying to get to fit, heat up the area not too hot.
2. Once the plastic is a little heated you can press the piece into the the other piece that you are trying to get a good fit into.
3. You will have to work a little fast as the plastic is going to cool down very fast, if it does cool too fast just repeat the process.

Example these two parts from looking at the manual. On page 7 of the user manual if you look at parts F & G, you will heat up the core of part G and then press it into F. I had issues fitting this piece and I had to use the heat gun, that's when I realized that not everyone is going to be familiar with heating parts to make it fit without sanding. No matter how accurate the print is the filaments are always a +/- % when it expands.

[TylerR]

Just some input to help folks when printing and fitting parts. If anyone has issues with parts not fitting properly after its printed, this is the best way to go about it. I don't sand my prints anymore, I used to do it years ago but stopped because you could see the sand paper marks or the discoloration from sanding on the prints. Plus, sanding takes a long time compared to softening the plastic briefly.

1. Use a heat gun on the part that you are trying to get to fit, heat up the area not too hot.
2. Once the plastic is a little heated you can press the piece into the the other piece that you are trying to get a good fit into.
3. You will have to work a little fast as the plastic is going to cool down very fast, if it does cool too fast just repeat the process.

Example these two parts from looking at the manual. On page 7 of the user manual if you look at parts F & G, you will heat up the core of part G and then press it into F. I had issues fitting this piece and I had to use the heat gun, that's when I realized that not everyone is going to be familiar with heating parts to make it fit without sanding. No matter how accurate the print is the filaments are always a +/- % when it expands.

What layer height are you using for these prints?

[RedlegEd]

Just some input to help folks when printing and fitting parts. If anyone has issues with parts not fitting properly after its printed, this is the best way to go about it. I don't sand my prints anymore, I used to do it years ago but stopped because you could see the sand paper marks or the discoloration from sanding on the prints. Plus, sanding takes a long time compared to softening the plastic briefly.

1. Use a heat gun on the part that you are trying to get to fit, heat up the area not too hot.
2. Once the plastic is a little heated you can press the piece into the the other piece that you are trying to get a good fit into.
3. You will have to work a little fast as the plastic is going to cool down very fast, if it does cool too fast just repeat the process.

Example these two parts from looking at the manual. On page 7 of the user manual if you look at parts F & G, you will heat up the core of part G and then press it into F. I had issues fitting this piece and I had to use the heat gun, that's when I realized that not everyone is going to be familiar with heating parts to make it fit without sanding. No matter how accurate the print is the filaments are always a +/- % when it expands.

Hi,
That's a really good tip, and it seems that you've been 3D printing for a while. I wanted to suggest that if your parts aren't fitting well, it could be a calibration issue. o416 had a really good link on post 2748 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?354324-Making-that-Bullet-Collator&p=5056013&viewfull=1#post5056013) to check and fix this. I did and found one of my printers was way out of spec. I changed/fixed it, and now have almost not fitment issues.
Ed

[stanford]

What layer height are you using for these prints?

I am using .2 and .12. I normally use a .8 nozzle when printing but I had to go down to a .4 to print these parts just for accuracy. Pretty much everything I printed didn't fit correctly or needed to be sanded. I haven't used cura in years, I just use simplify3d now. My printer is very calibrated, all the steppers are calibrated, my esteps are calibrated.

Sometimes when I print I do get good fit, but so far I haven't been able to get a good fit when I print these parts. I blame it all on filament, or it could be too much calibration. I use linear slides on my printers now, everything is totally upgraded.

[TylerR]

I am using .2 and .12. I normally use a .8 nozzle when printing but I had to go down to a .4 to print these parts just for accuracy. Pretty much everything I printed didn't fit correctly or needed to be sanded. I haven't used cura in years, I just use simplify3d now. My printer is very calibrated, all the steppers are calibrated, my esteps are calibrated.

Sometimes when I print I do get good fit, but so far I haven't been able to get a good fit when I print these parts. I blame it all on filament, or it could be too much calibration. I use linear slides on my printers now, everything is totally upgraded.

.4mm nozzle and .12 layer height is a requirement for any small parts where fit is a concern, in order to match to what I have designed to. Originally I designed around .2 layer height, but things were too lose for people printing at .12, so I went back and tightened up the tolerances some.

[GWS]

And don't forget the bottom layer spread. An xacto knife or scalpel is my best friend for for dealing with those. Usually it only takes a second....just a little cleanup.

Two more little things....the start and stop spots at each layer......and sharp edges where the typical .4 needs a trim to zero. These printers are better than I anything I could dream about....but perfection isn't reality anywhere among mortals.

[stanford]

.4mm nozzle and .12 layer height is a requirement for any small parts where fit is a concern, in order to match to what I have designed to. Originally I designed around .2 layer height, but things were too lose for people printing at .12, so I went back and tightened up the tolerances some.

Tyler, I know your tolerances are good, I would say they are perfect. But when printing there are always differences depending on the printer. In the manual it suggested that you use brims for printing the drop tubes. I use brims 100% of the time in all prints due to past issues. When I printed my first drop tube yesterday along with a larger electronics box I was looking at the print progress remotely and I could see the spaghetti from the tube. The tube dislodged from the bed and it was a mess, I had to wait until I got home to clean it up. If I did stop the print remotely I would have ruined the electronics box, so I let it go.

I had to use a raft in order to print my tubes, as I am writing this now I am printing 4 tubes with rafts and monitoring it remotely (i have never had to use rafts before). Some might say that you need to use some stuff on your bed, I use the Borosilicate Glass for my bed so I don't need glue or blue tape or anything else besides heat to hold my prints down.

Believe me, all my printers are setup differently, and they all function differently. When I do marlin firmware upgrades on my printers I have different settings for them all. I used to apply the same settings when I didn't know any better and all I had were issues.

I basically wanted to point out the heating tip to others because there will be fitment issues for some and I just didn't want them to ruin their prints by sanding too much, this is something I have done in the past and still do at times.

Tyler, nothing needs to be changed, everything is fine. Different printers do different things and only from experience and frustration would a person see these issues.

[stanford]

And don't forget the bottom layer spread. An xacto knife or scalpel is my best friend for for dealing with those. Usually it only takes a second....just a little cleanup.

Two more little things....the start and stop spots at each layer......and sharp edges where the typical .4 needs a trim to zero. These printers are better than I anything I could dream about....but perfection isn't reality anywhere among mortals.

The bottom layer spread sounds like elephants foot. That is normally fixed by using brims, the brim holds the print to the bed so the corners doesn't lift up. Also, if you keep too much heat on the bed after the first few layers the weight of the print will press down and spread the bottom out.

I normally give my first layer 70 degrees celc on the bed and then move to 60c every layer afterwards. Some people use 50c but my prints fall over when using 50c.

This deburring tool is what I use to cleanup the corners and edges of my prints and it works great.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=deburring+tool&i=industrial&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

[cdstang]

A little off topic but
What filament have you found that match the Dillon blue the best? Looking for PLA or PLA+.

Thanks.

[Anuccite]

This is my 1st attempt at Using Varying levels of infill for a part.... I wanted to print around the HEX connector at 100% for strength and the rest at 10%... I think it's coming out as expected.... For anyone that wishes to use this method..... Watch This video Attention at the 2:00 minute mark (Thanks o416)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su_m5zV9rvA&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=CHEP

Here are the start of the results.... I will update with a few pic as it progresses. and NO, I didn't do a great Job of centering that! but it should get the job done.

275394
275404

[Anuccite]

A little off topic but
What filament have you found that match the Dillon blue the best? Looking for PLA or PLA+.

Thanks.

I printed this with a ZIRO PLA.... But my amazon link brings me to not having the blue anymore....
275397
I just ordered this as a replacement for that color.... don't have it yet.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EKEMN9W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[RedlegEd]

A little off topic but
What filament have you found that match the Dillon blue the best? Looking for PLA or PLA+.

Thanks.

Hi,
I think the blue Duramic PLA+ (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TS5FLQV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) comes pretty close.
Ed

275399

[TylerR]

Tyler, I know your tolerances are good, I would say they are perfect. But when printing there are always differences depending on the printer. In the manual it suggested that you use brims for printing the drop tubes. I use brims 100% of the time in all prints due to past issues. When I printed my first drop tube yesterday along with a larger electronics box I was looking at the print progress remotely and I could see the spaghetti from the tube. The tube dislodged from the bed and it was a mess, I had to wait until I got home to clean it up. If I did stop the print remotely I would have ruined the electronics box, so I let it go.

I had to use a raft in order to print my tubes, as I am writing this now I am printing 4 tubes with rafts and monitoring it remotely (i have never had to use rafts before). Some might say that you need to use some stuff on your bed, I use the Borosilicate Glass for my bed so I don't need glue or blue tape or anything else besides heat to hold my prints down.

Believe me, all my printers are setup differently, and they all function differently. When I do marlin firmware upgrades on my printers I have different settings for them all. I used to apply the same settings when I didn't know any better and all I had were issues.

I basically wanted to point out the heating tip to others because there will be fitment issues for some and I just didn't want them to ruin their prints by sanding too much, this is something I have done in the past and still do at times.

Tyler, nothing needs to be changed, everything is fine. Different printers do different things and only from experience and frustration would a person see these issues.

Absolutely, and the heat trick is great advice. I also use acetone at times to smooth things out and that helps with fit.
I just want to make sure everyone is using the finer print setting because it also has a large affect on how parts fit together.

[stanford]

A little off topic but
What filament have you found that match the Dillon blue the best? Looking for PLA or PLA+.

Thanks.

How about this one.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0855S7Q9W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Anuccite]

How about this one.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0855S7Q9W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I just ordered a "light blue" by eSun.... I will let you know in a few days

[TylerR]

By request I just added a lock ring to the bullet feeder dies, in case you don't already have 20 of them.

[Anuccite]

I just ordered a "light blue" by eSun.... I will let you know in a few days

The Light Blue... Is a bit Light to be Dillon Blue...
275462

[TylerR]

The Light Blue... Is a bit Light to be Dillon Blue...


This is almost an exact match to the dillon blue, prints well and is very strong. And it's actually in stock at the moment.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0883FS7PH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[GWS]

The bottom layer spread sounds like elephants foot. That is normally fixed by using brims, the brim holds the print to the bed so the corners doesn't lift up. Also, if you keep too much heat on the bed after the first few layers the weight of the print will press down and spread the bottom out.

I normally give my first layer 70 degrees celc on the bed and then move to 60c every layer afterwards. Some people use 50c but my prints fall over when using 50c.

This deburring tool is what I use to cleanup the corners and edges of my prints and it works great.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=deburring+tool&i=industrial&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

Yeah "elephant's foot" just couldn't remember the term for it. ;) Never tried brims....maybe now's the time because warped corners is my biggest annoyance right now. I've been searching the net for what others do, and found one guy who just prints circles around the corners, brim-like for a couple of layers then trims them off. So he doesn't raft anything...the model is still on the bed and no full brims either. But I'm a beginner still, just trying to get past the warping corners.

I even glued two corners down on my latest base print (yesterday) when it first started lifting (with epoxy) and it worked.....but it reappeared a few layers higher..... Maybe I'm too hot.....been printing at 80C the first layer and 70C the rest. I will try 70 and 60 again.....and maybe the little circles.....

Anyway, I'm about to post about this latest print, because it's unique being TylerR's "experimental" base with a drop down feature......next.

[GWS]

I wanted to print TylerR's Experimenta base with the drop down feature to test it with a few different large long bullet types.

https://i.postimg.cc/QNPfs3Rt/IMG-3787.jpg

It wasn't without minor lifting problems on both the base and the drop down insert....it is minor and won't affect anything but my pride. I made a quick video since that best describes the base....how it's different from his other bases, and the annoying corner lifting as well.

I think different shaped plugs for different bullets may be necessary for some bullets.....the plug printed just fills it up and makes it into a normal run of the mill base.

Fit....the video shows that best too. The plug fit perfectly.....can't wait to power this thing up.....got to order a new motor today though. That's okay though, because I have a lot of printing to do to "decorate" this base......plates, sliders, outlets, downtubes.....on and on!;)


https://youtu.be/eFyeUbgiTSM

I've been using variable layer start points.....this one starts each layer in the same spot.....yeah that's why the ugly seam on the side. I didn't like the lumps all over the last base print either....better to have it in one place sort of out of the line of sight.

Oh! I forgot to mention layer height....it's IdeaMaker's variable layer mode.....I'll make a screen shot real quick and add that.

https://i.postimg.cc/cCpH4CS0/Screenshot-2021-01-16-131930.png

Did it add to the time?.... no doubt....and IdeaMaker has trouble making good guesses when using variable layer mode....they said 60 hours....actual was 64 hours.

Tyler! Don't know if you've printed this out yet, but I like it! Just about perfect minus my dumbness with lifting corners.....plug fit?....how do you get better than that?

For those wondering why the plug and step down.....think long bullets and how long it takes gravity to drop them.....you have to slow the rotating plate to a crawl to keep them from jamming before they drop out of the way. I like the head start a drop down provides....it has worked great for me in pre-3d and post-3d printer bullet feeder projects. I can see the concept helping case feeders too.

[TylerR]

Tyler! Don't know if you've printed this out yet, but I like it! Just about perfect minus my dumbness with lifting corners.....plug fit?....how do you get better than that?

For those wondering why the plug and step down.....think long bullets and how long it takes gravity to drop them.....you have to slow the rotating plate to a crawl to keep them from jambing before they drop out of the way. I like the head start a drop down provides....it has worked great for me in pre 3d and post 3d printer bullet feeder projects. I can see the concept helping case feeders too.

I love it! sorry you had so many issues with the print, but glad you finally got a working product. If you want me to design any other type of plug, like a ramp or anything let me know.

[RedlegEd]

This is almost an exact match to the dillon blue, prints well and is very strong. And it's actually in stock at the moment.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0883FS7PH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Hi TylerR,
If you don't need two rolls, you can also order a single roll directly from Overture for $24.99 (shipping included.) https://overture3d.com/products/overture-pla-professional-1-75mm

Ed

[RedlegEd]

Hey GWS,
Is that Uncle Jessie's Gun Metal? Nice!
Ed

[31QjVP]

This is my 1st attempt at Using Varying levels of infill for a part.... I wanted to print around the HEX connector at 100% for strength and the rest at 10%... I think it's coming out as expected.... For anyone that wishes to use this method..... Watch This video Attention at the 2:00 minute mark (Thanks o416)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su_m5zV9rvA&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=CHEP

Here are the start of the results.... I will update with a few pic as it progresses. and NO, I didn't do a great Job of centering that! but it should get the job done.

275394
275404

Is the STL for that plate shared somewhere? I'm just getting going on getting all my parts an my motor was not pinned so need to get some STLs for hex adapter plates like this. I tried using generator but I must have something wrong as it does not nearly fill the edges with slots.

[TylerR]

Hi TylerR,
If you don't need two rolls, you can also order a single roll directly from Overture for $24.99 (shipping included.) https://overture3d.com/products/overture-pla-professional-1-75mm

Ed

That's even better, since I can stop spending money with Amazon. Can't keep financing these companies that ultimately hate us.

[GWS]

Hey GWS,
Is that Uncle Jessie's Gun Metal? Nice!
Ed

Yes it is.....now picture it above the APP with Red clothes on.....;)

But I've had a hard week....bone tired....maybe I'll print red tomorrow....

BTW I was disappointed with Zyltech's satin red the color is washed out. Not at all as attractive as the green and blue satins. I have a roll of their lipstick red.....guess I'll try that.


I love it! sorry you had so many issues with the print, but glad you finally got a working product. If you want me to design any other type of plug, like a ramp or anything let me know.

I may have to bug you on that, but what I'd really like to do is find a good source of instruction on how to use the software you use. I may be too old to learn it.....probably....but It'd sure be easier to collaborate with compatible software. Autocad is great, but they are too dang stuck on themselves to share file compatibility.

[thump_rrr]

I've been lurking on this forum for quite a while now.
I just bought my first 3D printer a week ago.
It's been a steep learning curve but I seem to be getting the hang of it.
Somehow I found my way to this thread and have downloaded the files and started printing the bf_v1.3.5 main body.

I was wondering if there was a collator plate for 6.5 Creedmoor bullets?
It's kind of a long thread to go fishing.
Thanks in advance.

[o416]

I've been lurking on this forum for quite a while now.
I just bought my first 3D printer a week ago.
It's been a steep learning curve but I seem to be getting the hang of it.
Somehow I found my way to this thread and have downloaded the files and started printing the bf_v1.3.5 main body.

I was wondering if there was a collator plate for 6.5 Creedmoor bullets?
It's kind of a long thread to go fishing.
Thanks in advance.

Please read the manual included in the bf_v1.3.5 ZIP file.

[TylerR]

I may have to bug you on that, but what I'd really like to do is find a good source of instruction on how to use the software you use. I may be too old to learn it.....probably....but It'd sure be easier to collaborate with compatible software. Autocad is great, but they are too dang stuck on themselves to share file compatibility.

There actually are a ton of resources online including videos.

There is a 10 part video series you can start with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVzWxKEQGss

This guy has a bunch of videos:
https://www.youtube.com/user/miopicman/videos

They also have pretty decent written documentation:
https://designspark.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212280769-First-steps-to-Direct-Modelling-Section-1-Look-at-the-Sketch-Select-and-Pull-tools

[TylerR]

Please read the manual included in the bf_v1.3.5 ZIP file.

It's actually right in the downloads folder. No need to download the whole package. :)

[thump_rrr]

It's actually right in the downloads folder. No need to download the whole package. :)

I've read the manual, downloaded all the software and have been clicking things for the past 24 hrs and I still cant figure out where the collator plate settings are on the left.
https://i.postimg.cc/m2bHFStL/IMG-2378.jpg (https://postimg.cc/vDNBJfrk)

[thump_rrr]

There actually are a ton of resources online including videos.

There is a 10 part video series you can start with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVzWxKEQGss

This guy has a bunch of videos:
https://www.youtube.com/user/miopicman/videos

They also have pretty decent written documentation:
https://designspark.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212280769-First-steps-to-Direct-Modelling-Section-1-Look-at-the-Sketch-Select-and-Pull-tools

That isn't the software recommended in the manual.


The collator plate generator file is periodically updated so make sure that you are using the most recent version. It can be edited using any CAD software, but we recommend installing OpenSCAD on your computer. Open the collator plate generator file with OpenSCAD and you will see collator plate settings on the left side and a 3D rendering of a collator plate on the right. You can generate your custom collator plates as follows:

[TylerR]

I've read the manual, downloaded all the software and have been clicking things for the past 24 hrs and I still cant figure out where the collator plate settings are on the left.
https://i.postimg.cc/m2bHFStL/IMG-2378.jpg (https://postimg.cc/vDNBJfrk)


The plates you seek are already pre-built. Look for the #11 collator and slide plates. They are designed to handle long rifle bullets.

[TylerR]

That isn't the software recommended in the manual.

OpenSCAD is used to generate custom collator plates.

DSM is the program all of the source files for the project were created in. (Except the collator plates)

[thump_rrr]

OpenSCAD is used to generate custom collator plates.

DSM is the program all of the source files for the project were created in. (Except the collator plates)
The question I have is how do I use the custom collator generator from the screen shot I posted.
According to the instructions in the manual I should see the collator plate settings on the left.

This is where I am stuck and could use a bit of assistance.
If there was a read me file which specified what plates do what calibers maybe that would clear up the confusion.

The help is very much appreciated.

[TylerR]

The question I have is how do I use the custom collator generator from the screen shot I posted.
According to the instructions in the manual I should see the collator plate settings on the left.

This is where I am stuck and could use a bit of assistance.
If there was a read me file which specified what plates do what calibers maybe that would clear up the confusion.

The help is very much appreciated.

Go to "View" and uncheck "Hide Editor"

275538

[thump_rrr]

Go to "View" and uncheck "Hide Editor"

275538
Thank You very much.
Now everything makes sense.[smilie=w:

EDIT: Maybe a little note in the manual can save non computer literate people a lot of frustration.

[o416]

Thank You very much.
Now everything makes sense.[smilie=w:

EDIT: Maybe a little note in the manual can save non computer literate people a lot of frustration.

Thx for the feedback. I will add a note :)

[o416]

Please put your feedback for the manual here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eTfU2wqlT-MaJd-nfctjGdx-q-XpHgKxnIfWua8Uc1k/edit#gid=0

[noacess]

I finally got around to setting up the collator for case feeding the LNL AP. It seems to operate well in my limited testing. Next I plan on redoing the electronics box on the collator connected to my XL 750 and switching from using an optical sensor to proximity. Mostly because the wiring end up being cleaner. This will give me a chance to try my hand at making custom holes from template.

275588

[noacess]

Hey TylerR - When you're creating holes for connectors, how much tolerance do you leave? For example the 4 pin connector I have is is 12.5mm x 5.75mm. I assume making the holes exactly that size is a bad idea. As always, thanks for the help!

[Anuccite]

Is the STL for that plate shared somewhere? I'm just getting going on getting all my parts an my motor was not pinned so need to get some STLs for hex adapter plates like this. I tried using generator but I must have something wrong as it does not nearly fill the edges with slots.

I wouldn't want to share my Gcode file, as it may not be right for your printer....

If you followed the instructions on creating a Collator plate in the Documentation, and then used your slicer, with the video.... You should be all set.

[TylerR]

Hey TylerR - When you're creating holes for connectors, how much tolerance do you leave? For example the 4 pin connector I have is is 12.5mm x 5.75mm. I assume making the holes exactly that size is a bad idea. As always, thanks for the help!

Yes, I always add some clearance. people can also make things bigger if they need to. And I use super glue to make sure they stay in for good.

[noacess]

Yes, I always add some clearance. people can also make things bigger if they need to. And I use super glue to make sure they stay in for good.

Do you have a rule of thumb for how much clearance to add?

Thanks!

[TylerR]

Do you have a rule of thumb for how much clearance to add?

Thanks!

Not really. it depends on the part. .2mm is a good place to start. Then it's print, test, change, print, test, change.........

[noacess]

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to check to see if anyone would feel they'd benefit for a guide on how to add holes to the electronic box templates. I did it for the first time this weekend and it was pretty trivial in tinkercad. I think the biggest hang up I had was trying to figure out how to reverse the work plane (shift click).

TylerR - Another dumb question for you. For whatever reason the the "Brass_Slide_Adjuster" that fits into the "Brass_Slide_Plate" is loose enough to where it will occasionally get pushed open more causing my 300BLK brass to fall base up instead of down. I wasn't sure if I should just try printing it again and hope for a tighter fit or if a more robust solution would be in order such as having multiple size sliders or spacers or some sort of locking mechanism to make it so the slide adjuster can't move. Thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated as always!

[GWS]

I just printed a slider for each (.308 & .223) and an "adjuster" for each and marked, then silicone glued them where I wanted them. I prefer not having another adjustment that's always in the wrong place. Glue and forget is my motto, I guess.;)

[noacess]

I just printed a slider for each (.308 & .223) and an "adjuster" for each and marked, then silicone glued them where I wanted them. I prefer not having another adjustment that's always in the wrong place. Glue and forget is my motto, I guess.;)

Not a bad idea. I might go this route if for no other reason to use up some of small rolls of filament I have. Thanks for the suggestion.

[TylerR]

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to check to see if anyone would feel they'd benefit for a guide on how to add holes to the electronic box templates. I did it for the first time this weekend and it was pretty trivial in tinkercad. I think the biggest hang up I had was trying to figure out how to reverse the work plane (shift click).

TylerR - Another dumb question for you. For whatever reason the the "Brass_Slide_Adjuster" that fits into the "Brass_Slide_Plate" is loose enough to where it will occasionally get pushed open more causing my 300BLK brass to fall base up instead of down. I wasn't sure if I should just try printing it again and hope for a tighter fit or if a more robust solution would be in order such as having multiple size sliders or spacers or some sort of locking mechanism to make it so the slide adjuster can't move. Thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated as always!

I am not sure. There is currently .09mm clearance between those two parts. When I first try to insert the slider in to the plate it is extremely difficult and I actually have to add a little grease to get it to go. It does loosen up a little over time. I am not really sure how to implement a locking system to it, unless it was literally a set screw in the middle of the slider. Any other practical suggestions are welcome, or GWS's idea may be the best.

Just changed the clearance to .05mm. I don't want to go any tighter then that, and I do recommend a slight amount of grease or it will lock up. I would also recommend using acetone or lightly sanding to smooth out the ramp portion to make sure the mouth of the brass case is not catching there and causing it to push open.

[Anuccite]

I am not sure. There is currently .09mm clearance between those two parts. When I first try to insert the slider in to the plate it is extremely difficult and I actually have to add a little grease to get it to go. It does loosen up a little over time. I am not really sure how to implement a locking system to it, unless it was literally a set screw in the middle of the slider. Any other practical suggestions are welcome, or GWS's idea may be the best.

Just changed the clearance to .05mm. I don't want to go any tighter then that, and I do recommend a slight amount of grease or it will lock up. I would also recommend using acetone or lightly sanding to smooth out the ramp portion to make sure the mouth of the brass case is not catching there and causing it to push open.

I've printed 3 so far.... Each one fit slightly different... But Tighter is always better... once you find the sweet spot, you don't want it to move

[TylerR]

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to check to see if anyone would feel they'd benefit for a guide on how to add holes to the electronic box templates. I did it for the first time this weekend and it was pretty trivial in tinkercad. I think the biggest hang up I had was trying to figure out how to reverse the work plane (shift click)

Guides are always good, and can be put in the Shared Documents folder.

[noacess]

I am not sure. There is currently .09mm clearance between those two parts. When I first try to insert the slider in to the plate it is extremely difficult and I actually have to add a little grease to get it to go. It does loosen up a little over time. I am not really sure how to implement a locking system to it, unless it was literally a set screw in the middle of the slider. Any other practical suggestions are welcome, or GWS's idea may be the best.

Just changed the clearance to .05mm. I don't want to go any tighter then that, and I do recommend a slight amount of grease or it will lock up. I would also recommend using acetone or lightly sanding to smooth out the ramp portion to make sure the mouth of the brass case is not catching there and causing it to push open.

So, I tried to just put a small dab of hot glue behind the slider and that actually worked great, at least for that problem. I decided that since 9mm cases arn't picky about the slider I'd decap a bunch of those for testing purposes. Things were chugging along great but then I ran into a new problem. The space behind the slider when its slid closed a bit, creates a space where a case can jam itself between the plate and the space behind the slider. So I guess the moral of the story for folks is if you're doing pistol cases don't use a slider that isn't open all the way.

Just another thought, would it possible to create an openscad file for just the slider so folks can create whatever size they want?

Thanks again!

[noacess]

Something else I wanted to quickly report. I went to print the Brass_Drop_Hole_Adapter from version 1.3.5 and the orientation looked pretty strange from what I had printed last time so I went back to the one found in version 1.3.0 and it seems to be correct. See attached picture (1.3.0 left, 1.3.5 right). I think rotating it 30 degrees fixes it in the slicer but just wanted to make you aware.

275693

[o416]

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to check to see if anyone would feel they'd benefit for a guide on how to add holes to the electronic box templates. I did it for the first time this weekend and it was pretty trivial in tinkercad. I think the biggest hang up I had was trying to figure out how to reverse the work plane (shift click).

TylerR - Another dumb question for you. For whatever reason the the "Brass_Slide_Adjuster" that fits into the "Brass_Slide_Plate" is loose enough to where it will occasionally get pushed open more causing my 300BLK brass to fall base up instead of down. I wasn't sure if I should just try printing it again and hope for a tighter fit or if a more robust solution would be in order such as having multiple size sliders or spacers or some sort of locking mechanism to make it so the slide adjuster can't move. Thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated as always!

Are you sure you are inserting it in the correct orientation? Mine was very loose until I put it the right way :)

[noacess]

Are you sure you are inserting it in the correct orientation? Mine was very loose until I put it the right way :)

My Brass_Slide_Adjuster has the same tension in the Brass_Slide_Plate no matter the orientation.

[TylerR]

So, I tried to just put a small dab of hot glue behind the slider and that actually worked great, at least for that problem. I decided that since 9mm cases arn't picky about the slider I'd decap a bunch of those for testing purposes. Things were chugging along great but then I ran into a new problem. The space behind the slider when its slid closed a bit, creates a space where a case can jam itself between the plate and the space behind the slider. So I guess the moral of the story for folks is if you're doing pistol cases don't use a slider that isn't open all the way.

Just another thought, would it possible to create an openscad file for just the slider so folks can create whatever size they want?

Thanks again!

The slider is for Rifle Brass Only. It should be in the fully open position for pistol brass, as the way pistol brass works base down nothing should ever get past the drop hole.

[TylerR]

Something else I wanted to quickly report. I went to print the Brass_Drop_Hole_Adapter from version 1.3.5 and the orientation looked pretty strange from what I had printed last time so I went back to the one found in version 1.3.0 and it seems to be correct. See attached picture (1.3.0 left, 1.3.5 right). I think rotating it 30 degrees fixes it in the slicer but just wanted to make you aware.

275693

You always need to check in the slicer to make sure the correct bottom face is oriented with the build plate. When I generate a file from 3d cad there is not guarantee how the slicer is going to orient it.

[TylerR]

Just another thought, would it possible to create an openscad file for just the slider so folks can create whatever size they want?
!

I don't design in OpenSCAD. Thus GWS's questions about DSM, which I answered a page or so ago. The only thing designed in OpenScad is the collator plate builder,

[HuskJ]

Did you also try making the hole diameter a little smaller as well? That was my first advice to lablover with his short .32acp.

I did, I made the hole 11MM vs 11.5 and also tried 11.3MM. The darn bullet is almost square which causes the issues and ramp doesn't work. I may try to increase the depth of the pivot but I'll keep playing with it. Thank you for the idea!

[lablover]

I did, I made the hole 11MM vs 11.5 and also tried 11.3MM. The darn bullet is almost square which causes the issues and ramp doesn't work. I may try to increase the depth of the pivot but I'll keep playing with it. Thank you for the idea!


Are you having trouble with the bullet not wanting to flip on the ski ramp? You’re having the same issue as me with that bullet. I’m starting to believe that some bullets are made to not feed with a bullet feeder

[TylerR]

Are you having trouble with the bullet not wanting to flip on the ski ramp? You’re having the same issue as me with that bullet. I’m starting to believe that some bullets are made to not feed with a bullet feeder

What if you try a higher number slide plate, but move it out slightly so that the nose of the bullet travels further out on the ramp? The suggested slide plates are all designed to hit the ramp at about midway. May have to experiment to see what works.

[GWS]

What they ought to do with such bullets is make them the same on either end.....then it doesn't matter which end goes first!;) Kidding for the most part, but I quit shooting bullets hard to reload.....and short square ones weren't the only ones. There's lots that work better, and it's enough challenge for me to get them to load flawlessly without making it impossible for dumber than dumb mortals like me.

And then there's TylerR......he'll probably figure it out.

[TylerR]

I did, I made the hole 11MM vs 11.5 and also tried 11.3MM. The darn bullet is almost square which causes the issues and ramp doesn't work. I may try to increase the depth of the pivot but I'll keep playing with it. Thank you for the idea!

I can't remember if you already posted it, but video of the problem helps us to troubleshoot the issue with you much easier.

[TylerR]

What they ought to do with such bullets is make them the same on either end.....then it doesn't matter which end goes first!;) Kidding for the most part, but I quit shooting bullets hard to reload.....and short square ones weren't the only ones. There's lots that work better, and it's enough challenge for me to get them to load flawlessly without making it impossible for mortals like me.

There is some wisdom there GWS :)

[GWS]

Yeah well......full of wisdom....empty of answers.....not so much help...;)

[thump_rrr]

Double tap

[thump_rrr]

Please put your feedback for the manual here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eTfU2wqlT-MaJd-nfctjGdx-q-XpHgKxnIfWua8Uc1k/edit#gid=0
I will do so this weekend or next depending on when I receive/ print everything to put this together.
Thanks.

[HuskJ]

I can't remember if you already posted it, but video of the problem helps us to troubleshoot the issue with you much easier.

Will do. Quick question, in the experiment folder there is a Dillon adapter, is that the one you are using on your case feeder to run a spring from vs the Dillon plastic tube?

[HuskJ]

There is some wisdom there GWS :)

I agree GWS, I will NOT load that bullet but my Father is another story and he is a Bullseye shooter and that is his preferred bullet for 25 yards so I'm trying to help the guy who gave me life :)

[HuskJ]

What if you try a higher number slide plate, but move it out slightly so that the nose of the bullet travels further out on the ramp? The suggested slide plates are all designed to hit the ramp at about midway. May have to experiment to see what works.

Want me to USPS you 20 or so of them? :)

[HuskJ]

What if you try a higher number slide plate, but move it out slightly so that the nose of the bullet travels further out on the ramp? The suggested slide plates are all designed to hit the ramp at about midway. May have to experiment to see what works.

Good Idea, I will try the 9MM ramp. The ramp I found to work best was that one from backyard inventer where it had the trough for the bullet to fall into and that seemed to help quite a bit but still missed the ramp.

[TylerR]

Want me to USPS you 20 or so of them? :)

If you want to, I will promise to give it my best try to make them feel reliably. With the boolit in hand I am pretty confident I can find a way to make it work.

[HuskJ]

If you want to, I will promise to give it my best try to make them feel reliably. With the boolit in hand I am pretty confident I can find a way to make it work.

If you are up for it I'll send them to you. Just PM me address to send and I'll mail them out next weekend when I'm back at the ranch. I poured roughly 6,000 of them for him so he won't miss 20-30 of them:)

[TylerR]

If you are up for it I'll send them to you. Just PM me address to send and I'll mail them out next weekend when I'm back at the ranch. I poured roughly 6,000 of them for him so he won't miss 20-30 of them:)

Let's get it done. I love a challenge. PM sent.

[lablover]

Let's get it done. I love a challenge. PM sent.

I also have some hitech coated 160s if you want some for testing. I’d be happy to send you some on my dime. I can’t wait to see the results because these are tough little suckers

[djinnpb]

So finally printed up another base and using the new slider electronics box (VERY nice btw). And now starting to build another cable but thinking about trying the proximity sensor. For those that used the photosensor and the swapped, much better? sure looks like an easier way. Though seems like a huge wait to get a PRD18-14DN2 delivered. And do plan to get one somewhere other than Amazon.. for.. reasons. So might make another regular box for now then swap.

Also beyond impressed with the manual. That has become such an amazing collection of people coming together in a common goal.

[TylerR]

I also have some hitech coated 160s if you want some for testing. I’d be happy to send you some on my dime. I can’t wait to see the results because these are tough little suckers

Send em on over. :)

[lablover]

Send em on over. :)

I’ll get them out today hopefully! Got sent home from work due to no work today. After weeks of OT we don’t have work today....lol. Go figure

[TylerR]

So finally printed up another base and using the new slider electronics box (VERY nice btw). And now starting to build another cable but thinking about trying the proximity sensor. For those that used the photosensor and the swapped, much better? sure looks like an easier way. Though seems like a huge wait to get a PRD18-14DN2 delivered. And do plan to get one somewhere other than Amazon.. for.. reasons. So might make another regular box for now then swap.

Also beyond impressed with the manual. That has become such an amazing collection of people coming together in a common goal.


In my opinion the proximity sensor is the way to go. Simpler to wire and more reliable detection. You can use any sensor that meets the requirements specified in the manual.

"18mm diameter normally closed (NC) inductive proximity sensor with a minimum detection range of 8mm." The wiring diagram is for an "NPN" version but "PNP" would work as well just wired a little differently.

[lablover]

Send em on over. :)

In a small flat rate box in the mailbox. Sent along a few of the other headaches too. Hope you have tons of hair on your head...lol

[TylerR]

In a small flat rate box in the mailbox. Sent along a few of the other headaches too. Hope you have tons of hair on your head...lol

Sweet, I'll find a way to make those suckers work!

Pulled all my hair out already following recent history. Nothing left anyway :)

[noacess]

So finally printed up another base and using the new slider electronics box (VERY nice btw). And now starting to build another cable but thinking about trying the proximity sensor. For those that used the photosensor and the swapped, much better? sure looks like an easier way. Though seems like a huge wait to get a PRD18-14DN2 delivered. And do plan to get one somewhere other than Amazon.. for.. reasons. So might make another regular box for now then swap.

Also beyond impressed with the manual. That has become such an amazing collection of people coming together in a common goal.

I switched from the optical sensor to using the proximity. I never had any issues with the optical but much preferred the cleaner wiring from the proximity. I've also used both the PRD18-14DN2 (got lucky and bought a couple cheap from a US seller on ebay) and the uxcell 8mm sensor and both have worked fine for me.

[stanford]

In my opinion the proximity sensor is the way to go. Simpler to wire and more reliable detection. You can use any sensor that meets the requirements specified in the manual.

"18mm diameter normally closed (NC) inductive proximity sensor with a minimum detection range of 8mm." The wiring diagram is for an "NPN" version but "PNP" would work as well just wired a little differently.

You guys are killing me. I thought the optical sensor was better so I printed the tubes for those, now I find out the proximity is better. I guess back to the drawing board.

[TylerR]

You guys are killing me. I thought the optical sensor was better so I printed the tubes for those, now I find out the proximity is better. I guess back to the drawing board.

The drop tubes handle both optical and proximity sensors.

[GWS]

I'll take all the blame and fault....I brought the degenerate proximity sensor to the forum....pure evil intentions....;) You can ignore them and probably do just fine....but I like em. Sorry to complicate everything, but I had had enough with micro-switches that had to be constantly tweeked.....and at the time I couldn't even find an optical switch....I knew they were made, but back then they seemed to be hard to find. So I tried the Proximity switch a guy was using on a case annealer system....and it worked really well.

Today I finally got my .308 case collator plate printed...... (Zyltec Lipstick Red I got for $19))

https://i.postimg.cc/wBBHK8nF/IMG-3792.jpg

The hold up was the hex motor shaft I had chosen....that ruined the .223 plate.....well that's not completely true, it was the dang super powerful Dayton motor that did that while I looked for a speed slow enough to drop cases without binding......it was the over and over binding that ruined the .223 plate...wallered out the hex hole, but at least it didn't totally trash the plate...maybe I can fix it.

So I decided to try raising the plate's handle and double the hex coupler.

275856

Doubled hex coupler illustrated below:

https://i.postimg.cc/JnDLn3rk/IMG-3790.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/9M6jq40N/IMG-3791.jpg

So did it work? Well eventually. Lets just say if you mount 2 couplers back to back using an M4X20 hex bolt.....make sure the dang thing is tight.....in fact thread locker would be a good Idea if your motor is as powerful as mine is. Notice, I even tightened the top set screw around the bolt to help hold them together.....heck maybe I'll super glue them together as well....;)

And if you use a motor that is geared too fast like that one is....and you have to use a speed control, do what TylerR suggests and buy (and use :oops:) a relay. Procrastination in that area was fatal to my little cheap speed control.....it now has one speed ... too fast. Looking for another more forgiving motor before I ruin another plate.........(not the one above, yet)

[TylerR]

I'll take all the blame and fault....I brought the degenerate proximity sensor to the forum....pure evil intentions....;)

And yet look at my current recommendation. Would not be the case without you making us aware of them. :)

[GWS]

Since I'm fresh out of speed controls, I went looking on the web for any other solutions.....I know a resistor isn't a good way, but I found out that DC motors slow down with lower voltage......so I ran downstairs and plugged in a 5 volt wall wart into the 12v motor and guess what? Maybe I don't need a speed control.....it feeds those .308's without a hitch.......no jams....Now, since TylerR is way smarter electrically than me, what say you? Is that going to cause a heat problem in the motor?

[noacess]

Since I'm fresh out of speed controls, I went looking on the web for any other solutions.....I know a resistor isn't a good way, but I found out that DC motors slow down with lower voltage......so I ran downstairs and plugged in a 5 volt wall wart into the 12v motor and guess what? Maybe I don't need a speed control.....it feeds those .308's without a hitch.......no jams....Now, since TylerR is way smarter electrically than me, what say you? Is that going to cause a heat problem in the motor?

I'd worry about burning out the wall wart, but then again, I'm no expert.

[TylerR]

Since I'm fresh out of speed controls, I went looking on the web for any other solutions.....I know a resistor isn't a good way, but I found out that DC motors slow down with lower voltage......so I ran downstairs and plugged in a 5 volt wall wart into the 12v motor and guess what? Maybe I don't need a speed control.....it feeds those .308's without a hitch.......no jams....Now, since TylerR is way smarter electrically than me, what say you? Is that going to cause a heat problem in the motor?

I don't claim to be an expert either, but I do not believe there is any issue with running a DC motor at a lower voltage. Isn't that what a speed controller is ultimately varying, the voltage?

[lablover]

Sweet, I'll find a way to make those suckers work!

Pulled all my hair out already following recent history. Nothing left anyway :)


Now that was funny!

[GWS]

This from an Electrical engineer asked the same question:

"Normally, when you reduce the voltage applied to a DC motor it will turn slower, but not because "voltage affects speed", not directly. If you apply a lower voltage, it will draw less current, will have less torque, and therefore will turn slower, for a given load."

Hmmm.....less torque too.....also not a bad thing in this instance....maybe won't rip things apart if binding on a stuck bullet.

Guess I'll try it for a while......just a old phone power supply....never throw away anything that works....;) It sure is simpler than trying to find a speed that works....and remembering where it is. If it works for .308 it ought to work fine for .223.

At the moment I'm waiting for liquid steel to dry...to maybe save my .223 plate. Then we will see. I do like the price!:)

[Anuccite]

Since I'm fresh out of speed controls, I went looking on the web for any other solutions.....I know a resistor isn't a good way, but I found out that DC motors slow down with lower voltage......so I ran downstairs and plugged in a 5 volt wall wart into the 12v motor and guess what? Maybe I don't need a speed control.....it feeds those .308's without a hitch.......no jams....Now, since TylerR is way smarter electrically than me, what say you? Is that going to cause a heat problem in the motor?

These are working nicely for me

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BJ4WQCV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[GWS]

These are working nicely for me

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BJ4WQCV/ref=ppxyo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BJ4WQCV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Exact same ones I bought, and yes that one did work nicely until it didn't. Suddenly the switch would not turn off and the speed control only had one speed....fastest. And before I could unplug it ruined my plate with a .308 stuck half-way through the hole. Nothing I could do but race to the plug which happened to be out of reach and pull it.

I'm about to find out whether epoxy steel can resurrect the now round hex inside......if not I'll have to print another. I'm beginning to wonder if we might not need to reexamine a smaller motor......or at least a de-torqued motor with the 5 volt power supply like I'm now testing.

I still really am dumb about relays.....I have no idea if not having it installed was the reason for the fail or if the cheap Chinese board would have failed anyway. I have no clue how a relay works and what it works.

I tried for two hours last night to understand a "back to the basics" tutorial on how to wire the prox. That electronics engineer had no idea what the word "basics" means. Came away no smarter in the least. Every other word was beyond normal lay English or even basic electronics. What does "NPN sink" or "PNP source" have to do with wiring a motor? ;) Back searching this morning for a "real" basic talking engineer....if one exists. I'm pretty sure the NPN sensor is to be switching across the negative wire, or if it's a PNP, the positive wire.....but that ain't enough information, when you add a relay.

TylerR's schematic didn't help.....too dumb I guess to convert that to the wires I have. Try again this morning....maybe I was too tired last night.

[TylerR]

GWS why not use the wiring diagram I created for using a relay with the proximity sensor? It is in the manual.

[GWS]

I know Tyler......I even copied it on paper. So now I just have an off on switch instead of the speed control.....one wire in and one wire out......not at all like the two wires in and two wires out on the diagram....ought to be simpler....doh.

[TylerR]

The only thing you need know about a relay is that it is a simple switch. It turns on or off based on whether a small current has been applied or not. The current needed to switch it is very low. But the switch side can handle a large current. So basically you are turning a high current circuit on or off using a very low current circuit. Hope that helps.

[GWS]

That finally makes some sense, thank you. So, I can just tie the negative-out on the relay, directly to the motor positive and the power supply negative to the negative motor lead, with my on/off switch between (on that negative wire). I knew it had to be easier than I was making it....late hour last night....

[TylerR]

Yes. If you take another look at my diagram you will see a red wire coming out of the “negative” out terminal of the relay and connecting to the positive in for the speed controller. Because really what the relay is doing is creating continuity for the positive lead.

[TylerR]

Just to be clear. If by on off switch you mean the proximity sensor then it needs to be feeding the negative side of the relay in if it’s NPN or the positive side of the relay in if it’s PNP. Study my diagram some more and it should make sense. Also notice that the thin lines represent the low current circuit that travels through the proximity sensor. The thicker lines are the higher current circuit.

[GWS]

No just a single throw on/off, since with the 5volt p.s. it's slow enough to not need a speed control for the rife brass I'm using it for at the moment. ;)

That said, I just ordered another speed control, but this one is just speed control not a switched speed control. Covering my bases. ;_

What I didn't like about the other speed control is that you had to set it just so every time you turn it on. Separating the on/off makes it so I can leave the speed control alone, and just turn the collator power on. But the setup without the s.c. will work fine and maybe I'll use the new one coming or not....depends on if I need it for other uses.......

This is what I just ordered.....

275908

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QVONO20/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

More expensive than the old one, but I don't want the power switch.....I think it was too weak.

[impala68]

i been following this thread for a while and just felt the need to assist where i can

as far as the speed controller's there are 2 different types the first (the ones pictured in this thread) is a potentiometer type the other is a PWM type

the potentiometer type is a variable resistor that cuts voltage by increasing resistance ... this slows the motor but also cuts the torque on the motor

the PWM type is a pulse width modulator this one does not cut the voltage what it does is completely cut power for a fraction of a second to slow the rpm. basically think of a wave on the ocean the peaks are full voltage thats and the luls are the no power ... so the faster (or closer together) the peaks are the faster the motor will turn the slower the peaks are (farther appart) the slower the motor will turn ... but at all times the voltage to the motors is full voltage so full torque is still available at lower speeds

hopefully that helps when your sourcing the controllers ... basically the bigger motors will be fine with the potentiometer types but the small jgy motors do better with a pwm due to low torque in the first place

i may not be precise in my wording above but i haven't used my electronics degree in 25 years soo ...

i have 4 of these feeders going now one version pre 1.27 on a dillon 650, one version 1.27 on another dillon 650 , 2 version 1.35 on a lee apps, and i'm printing a 1.36 now just because lol
before i found this i was modifying the RVB feeder in all the same ways you guys have been doing here mainly because it was the only one i could get the f3d files for, did one of the original ammomike ones but it wasn't till the scad plate generator that it became a viable option

but damn you guys do good work please keep it up and i'd love to assist where i can

[GWS]

..........potentiometer type the other is a PWM type.......

i may not be precise in my wording above but i haven't used my electronics degree in 25 years soo ... I'd love to assist where i can

I knew there had to be an Electronics guy out there listening! Please join in whenever you want. Bet you can tell me if I'm adding wood to my break everything fire by lowering the Power Supply voltage for to slow it down and less torque for that monster motor is a blessing.

Also thanks for the terms to intelligently look for a PWM type for my little "Mikes" running the little motor. So far it works with the one Anuccite posted a few posts above.....but for how long? That's another question. Iffy quality is one thing....misusing the product is another......and we were lacking in the expertise department electronically. Thanks for the information!

Interesting........I just looked and noticed for the first time that the little switchless speed control I just ordered (link in my last post), turns out IS a PWM type......should have order a couple more!:) Heck I didn't know what PWM was.....

[TylerR]

i been following this thread for a while and just felt the need to assist where i can

as far as the speed controller's there are 2 different types the first (the ones pictured in this thread) is a potentiometer type the other is a PWM type

the potentiometer type is a variable resistor that cuts voltage by increasing resistance ... this slows the motor but also cuts the torque on the motor

the PWM type is a pulse width modulator this one does not cut the voltage what it does is completely cut power for a fraction of a second to slow the rpm. basically think of a wave on the ocean the peaks are full voltage thats and the luls are the no power ... so the faster (or closer together) the peaks are the faster the motor will turn the slower the peaks are (farther appart) the slower the motor will turn ... but at all times the voltage to the motors is full voltage so full torque is still available at lower speeds

hopefully that helps when your sourcing the controllers ... basically the bigger motors will be fine with the potentiometer types but the small jgy motors do better with a pwm due to low torque in the first place

i may not be precise in my wording above but i haven't used my electronics degree in 25 years soo ...

i have 4 of these feeders going now one version pre 1.27 on a dillon 650, one version 1.27 on another dillon 650 , 2 version 1.35 on a lee apps, and i'm printing a 1.36 now just because lol
before i found this i was modifying the RVB feeder in all the same ways you guys have been doing here mainly because it was the only one i could get the f3d files for, did one of the original ammomike ones but it wasn't till the scad plate generator that it became a viable option

but damn you guys do good work please keep it up and i'd love to assist where i can

Thank you Impala68. That is great info, very helpful.

It's funny you explained the torque difference, and now have me wondering, because even with the full sized motor I have has never damaged a plate when it jams. The motor just stops until I shut it off. So many other people say their motor destroys it on a jam.

[cdstang]

The Overture Pla+ blue is looking good.. I guess they change the name to PLA Pro now.

https://i.ibb.co/LQ00wBH/63311533561-D5-F195-C8-748-D-4022-A3-C1-5-AAEC82811-EA.jpg

[djinnpb]

So I got my hands on a PR18-14DN2 (not the PRD18-14DN2) but is NPN NC M18 with 8mm sensing, so fits the bill. But not sure anyone had issues with it sensing through the flat spot of the drop tubes? All mine are PETG and seem to not sense. If I put one in front works fine. So my question is perhaps too many walls or thickness of infill make a difference on those? Going to print a new one and see. But definitely can see the proximity sensor being so much easier

[bigmike111]

Thank you Impala68. That is great info, very helpful.

It's funny you explained the torque difference, and now have me wondering, because even with the full sized motor I have has never damaged a plate when it jams. The motor just stops until I shut it off. So many other people say their motor destroys it on a jam.

Tyler, Speaking of jams destroying the motor here are a few of my experiences:

I am using the Dayton Motor, at first I had drilled and put a 3/8 roll pin in the shaft and used your stock #2 plate. The diameter of the motor shaft on my motor is 8MM on the dot and the #2 plate is 10.1 (making an assumption based off of the number listed in the manual), because there is a 2mm difference there was some play in the plate when it was positioned on the shaft. I has come occasional issues with jams and I'm not sure if it was due to the plate being loose or what. At one point the plate had jammed and was STUCK, ultimately the roll pin had dug into the side of the plate. I have since abandoned that plate.

I created a new plate with a hex adapter and printed a new plate. When I created the plate I screwed up and did not put the right height for rifle bullets but started testing it anyway while I waited for the new plate to print out. It seemed that with the plate being properly centered and not having the extra play like the pinned shaft did everything worked a little better. Since the plate was very short and the hex adapter was only 1/2-3/5 of the way inside of the plate the first jam stripped out the hole.

Que the 3rd plate - This one I made the proper height so the hex adapter was seated all the way inside the plate. This one worked really well and only had a few bullets go in upside down but did have a few hangups. I did end up having it get stuck pretty good a couple times and at one point the hex adapter started slipping on the shaft. I pulled everything off and found that the set screw may have backed out a bit and ripped itself out of the adapter and galled up the motor shaft pretty good.

It seems these motors are pretty powerful. lol

So, currently I have another plate on the printer, going back to the pinned shaft. This one I made with a 8.1mm hole diameter instead of the 10.1 to make sure the plate is centered with less slop and I can open the hole up bigger with a drill bit if needed. I also included 4 walls to try to help with the roll pin not digging in like the first plate.

[djinnpb]

I am using the Dayton Motor, at first I had drilled and put a 3/8 roll pin in the shaft and used your stock #2 plate. The diameter of the motor shaft on my motor is 8MM on the dot and the #2 plate is 10.1 (making an assumption based off of the number listed in the manual), because there is a 2mm difference there was some play in the plate when it was positioned on the shaft. I has come occasional issues with jams and I'm not sure if it was due to the plate being loose or what. At one point the plate had jammed and was STUCK, ultimately the roll pin had dug into the side of the plate. I have since abandoned that plate
[....]

So, currently I have another plate on the printer, going back to the pinned shaft. This one I made with a 8.1mm hole diameter instead of the 10.1 to make sure the plate is centered with less slop and I can open the hole up bigger with a drill bit if needed. I also included 4 walls to try to help with the roll pin not digging in like the first plate.

I also have the same Dayton motors and drilled and dropped a pin in. I used the values on the plates for the shaft. Also noticed they were much looser as you did without adjusting them:

// my dayton shaft
shaft_hole=8.2;
shaft_slot_length=26;
shaft_slot_width=4.5;

I used a 1/8 1" long pin.

[bigmike111]

I also have the same Dayton motors and drilled and dropped a pin in. I used the values on the plates for the shaft. Also noticed they were much looser as you did without adjusting them:

// my dayton shaft
shaft_hole=8.2;
shaft_slot_length=26;
shaft_slot_width=4.5;

I used a 1/8 1" long pin.

I believe I am using a 1/8" pin as well, I don't remember the length but it fit in the #2 plate. This is what I have on the printer now:

// SHAFT OPTIONS (STANDARD)
shaft_hole=8.1; //shaft hole
shaft_slot_length=29;
shaft_slot_width=4.0;

The shaft on my motor measures 8mm exactly, I hope that it doesn't get stuck on the shaft bit I figured I could drill it out if its too small. I did drill the pin hole a little crooked so its a little off center, I hope it fits still. If not, I'll have to make the slot width a little wider and re-print. haha

Do those settings work well for you?

[djinnpb]

I believe I am using a 1/8" pin as well, I don't remember the length but it fit in the #2 plate. This is what I have on the printer now:

// SHAFT OPTIONS (STANDARD)
shaft_hole=8.1; //shaft hole
shaft_slot_length=29;
shaft_slot_width=4.0;

The shaft on my motor measures 8mm exactly, I hope that it doesn't get stuck on the shaft bit I figured I could drill it out if its too small. I did drill the pin hole a little crooked so its a little off center, I hope it fits still. If not, I'll have to make the slot width a little wider and re-print. haha

Do those settings work well for you?

They do. I wanted a little room to pull plates off if they didn't have a handle. But it tracks well. I wouldn't worry too much on how perfect the hole is centered since it should self-center around the 8mm shaft with the wings as just pushers. Quick vid for you on how they fit.


https://youtu.be/ToTHhUqnIU4

[bigmike111]

They do. I wanted a little room to pull plates off if they didn't have a handle. But it tracks well. I wouldn't worry too much on how perfect the hole is centered since it should self-center around the 8mm shaft with the wings as just pushers. Quick vid for you on how they fit.


https://youtu.be/ToTHhUqnIU4

That makes sense, I think I’m going to put a handle on the plates just for ease of removal once I get everything working properly.

I’m not overly concerned with the hole position, just that it’s slightly crooked and hoping I didn’t make the slot width too narrow and not fitting on the plate.

I’ve also thought about drilling two holes in the shaft if I do it again. But we’ll see how it works this way first.

[GWS]

Thank you Impala68. That is great info, very helpful.

It's funny you explained the torque difference, and now have me wondering, because even with the full sized motor I have has never damaged a plate when it jams. The motor just stops until I shut it off. So many other people say their motor destroys it on a jam.

Maybe the Dayton has more torque than the one you use. I haven't had total destruction like some had using the pin in the shaft, but I had it round the inside of the Hex plate for .223 brass.

That said tonight I hooked up the relay temporarily, the prox, the on/off toggle switch(thank you for the insight on the relay) using the 5 volt power supply on my high speed 30RPM 12volt Dayton [no speed control needed], the result was astoundingly perfect.

The speed and torque was tamed totally, and it drops 308 brass without binding except where the brass tries to piggyback. (but that's an easy fix) When it does piggyback it can cause the brass in the hole under it, when it tries to upend and fall, to bind. But still when it does bind it just stops....no more destructive rounding. And even at 5 volts the prox switch works every time. So happy tonight. I'll work on a vid a little later.

So lowering the voltage DOES reduce the speed AND torque. When you need that....it's cool. Happily 5 volt wall warts are as common as computers.....not to mention one could actually use an old computer power supply's 5 volt lead.

To others: Other slower Daytons may not go fast enough on 5 volts....so if yours is already slow this isn't for you.


https://youtu.be/wg2zTB7gQzA

This is .308.....the last pause was the proximity switch shutting it off.....I was catching brass under the sensor and I got too close and stopped the collator on the last case. I lowered my hand and it started again. So everything's working great.... just the right speed with no speed control.

Next video shows the jam caused by another case piggybacking.......pretty sure it's just the angle. Not enough angle to keep cases at the bottom?


https://youtu.be/taxfNvPgA9A

Forgot and held my hand too close under again....proximity sensor stopped it again on the last when the case backed up....just like it's supposed to.

I didn't turn off the switch for a reason....to demonstrate that it didn't have the torque to wreck the plate while I cleared it. (guess you figured out you're looking through my mirror. ;))

Only question now is how will it work full of cases????? and for .308 maybe I'll want to print the extender......

[thump_rrr]

Has anyone thought of adding a clutch to the plates like Hornady does?
https://i.postimg.cc/vZ0q75rC/4-B0-A134-E-71-FB-4-BA3-B80-A-DEBB0778-D5-BB.jpg (https://postimg.cc/18NrsnYK)
https://i.postimg.cc/GmLgsXyk/D89-BC286-5-CC0-40-AD-A1-F8-84-B230-E19-AA0.jpg (https://postimg.cc/GHfxWJz2)

[bigmike111]

Has anyone thought of adding a clutch to the plates like Hornady does?
https://i.postimg.cc/vZ0q75rC/4-B0-A134-E-71-FB-4-BA3-B80-A-DEBB0778-D5-BB.jpg (https://postimg.cc/18NrsnYK)
https://i.postimg.cc/GmLgsXyk/D89-BC286-5-CC0-40-AD-A1-F8-84-B230-E19-AA0.jpg (https://postimg.cc/GHfxWJz2)

I thought about it but don’t know how to go about it or if it would even solve the problem. I have them on my Dillon casefeed plates but I’m not aware of how they function.