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apen

11-20-2015, 05:05 PM

Here is a slightly more traditional gun....one of your members owns this thing.

the proven theories from the FR were applied to this build......notice no shroud....all the shroud is for is a place to rest the gun without changing point of impact.

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff460/bcgunworks/image_zpsdgvculnx.jpeg (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/bcgunworks/media/image_zpsdgvculnx.jpeg.html)

How much for something like this? I like the looks of it.

tdoyka

11-20-2015, 05:15 PM

I would throw the gun in the trash if I got 6" groups at 200 yards

guns meaning rifles, i would throw them into the trash.

guns meaning pistols, heck i'm trying to get my ruger super redhawk in 44 mag(open sights, factory) into a 3" group at 50 yards with a 220gr wadcutter and 7.0gr of trail boss(i only use my left arm 'cuz of a stroke). i can shoot it at 25 yards but at 50 yards my groups can go 4 1/2" or so. it might be good enough for deer, but for me, i'm gonna take it down to 25 or 30 yards until i can get it to 3" groups.

thats a real nice franken-ruger(all cal.) ya got there!!!

shorty500

11-20-2015, 06:18 PM

You know being both a toolmaker and a gunsmith by trade and a revolver nut by choice i have watched this thread from get go! Have remained silent til now! Am very pleased by what i see

BCgunworks

11-20-2015, 06:31 PM

You know being both a toolmaker and a gunsmith by trade and a revolver nut by choice i have watched this thread from get go! Have remained silent til now! Am very pleased by what i see
[smilie=w:

rlb

11-22-2015, 01:02 AM

"Hunting just starts with the .44. Even it starts to lose at 100 yards or over. I prefer 25 yards or less and to think I would shoot at a deer at 200 is foolish, no matter the caliber."

I don't think she would've noticed another 30 yds. and she's a little heavier built than your little whitetails.

ErnieBishop

11-22-2015, 01:13 AM

Nice.
Good for you.

BCgunworks

11-22-2015, 08:47 AM

As a general note. When fired from a 10" barrel.

Most of the 357 bullets stay at an appropriate velocity to expand to 200-250 yards per the manufacturers.

The 44 pullers stay at an appropriate speed per the manufacturer to 350.

One must confirm their individual velocity as well as their marksmanship before attempting this.

And no. I haven't taken any medium or large game that far. That's all just based on the numbers.

Perfect practice would be a must.

jeff223

11-22-2015, 07:12 PM

I have not been on this site for awhile but I'm glad I stopped by and ran into this thread.Its a good one for sure and I have great time reading it.:mrgreen:

I remember when I was shooting my 357 max Contender out at 300 yards and everyone said I couldnt.:shock:

BCgunworks

11-22-2015, 07:27 PM

jeff223

11-22-2015, 08:50 PM

Well the downers here are up against some of the best pistol shooters in the world.I have been in Wyoming hunting and shooting at the range in Casper with Ernie and I have seen what can be done.There was a group of pistol shooters there shooting specialty pistols that made most of the rifle shooters getting ready for the prong horn opener look like monkeys shooting.It was very impressive to say the least.Ernie shot my 357max Contender off hand and hit a steel gong at 300yards.

The FR you are making will without any question kill deer at 150 yards and even more.My 357max shooting the same bullets is a 200yard deer killer regardless what anyone says about it.

I will stopping by to keep up on this thread :popcorn:

BCgunworks

11-22-2015, 09:14 PM

44man will be grumpy when he wakes up and reads all this in the morning. :)

ErnieBishop

11-22-2015, 11:09 PM

Shhhh. I rarely talk about off-hand shooting at distance;)
That was good times for sure.
I really enjoyed shooting your handgun.
Accurate little sucker!!!
How in the world have you been?

Well the downers here are up against some of the best pistol shooters in the world.I have been in Wyoming hunting and shooting at the range in Casper with Ernie and I have seen what can be done.There was a group of pistol shooters there shooting specialty pistols that made most of the rifle shooters getting ready for the prong horn opener look like monkeys shooting.It was very impressive to say the least.Ernie shot my 357max Contender off hand and hit a steel gong at 300yards.

The FR you are making will without any question kill deer at 150 yards and even more.My 357max shooting the same bullets is a 200yard deer killer regardless what anyone says about it.

I will stopping by to keep up on this thread :popcorn:

jeff223

11-23-2015, 09:13 AM

I have been good Ernie.I have been in Wyoming near Casper and north of of your home town mule deer hunting a couple of years.Been in western Nebraska in the sand hill region hunting and elk hunting in Colorado with. Muzzleloader.

Talk to Eric Wallace 2 days ago,he is going to install a Ross brake on my 357max barrel after deer season.I want to tame it down some.I am tired of recoil and I want to shoot it with a rifle scope.

By the way I will be back next fall hunting north of your home town again.I love those out of state hunts,FUN FUN...........will be mule deer hunting on public ground in the firearm seaason.We killed some nice ones there two years ago

Good shooting

paul h

11-23-2015, 06:37 PM

Has a FR been built on the 356 GNR (35/41 mag) or other wildcats that would bump it up into 357 max levels? 200 gr @ 1700 fps should be reasonably obtained with AA-1680 based on what my 10" contender was doing. I'm sure it wouldn't do anything for the detractors, but seems like an interesting option.

BCgunworks

11-23-2015, 07:05 PM

Haven't done any wild cats for production. Done a few to play with but there really wasn't any gain

ErnieBishop

11-24-2015, 07:41 AM

Well if you are in the neighborhood, give me a shout next fall.
Eric recently put together a switch barrel center-grip XP for me (7mm Dakota/330 Dakota).
If there is time and decent weather you can give one or both of my FR's a run on steel.
I have been shooting revolvers more in the last year...It is all Chris Rhodes fault[smilie=l:

I have been good Ernie.I have been in Wyoming near Casper and north of of your home town mule deer hunting a couple of years.Been in western Nebraska in the sand hill region hunting and elk hunting in Colorado with. Muzzleloader.

Talk to Eric Wallace 2 days ago,he is going to install a Ross brake on my 357max barrel after deer season.I want to tame it down some.I am tired of recoil and I want to shoot it with a rifle scope.

By the way I will be back next fall hunting north of your home town again.I love those out of state hunts,FUN FUN...........will be mule deer hunting on public ground in the firearm seaason.We killed some nice ones there two years ago

Good shooting

jeff223

11-24-2015, 09:17 AM

Thanks Ernie that's a nice offer.I will get with you before the hunt next fall.

I found out I live 40 minutes away from Steve Brown and a hour and 15 minutes away from Eric Wallace.I never meet either one of those guys but will be meeting Eric soon.Maybe I will be able to meet Steve some time too,I would love to see his FR

ErnieBishop

11-24-2015, 09:49 AM

I have competed in LR comps and shot pd's with Eric, but I have never met Steve yet.
Steve's 357 FR is very similar to mine.

sheehan93

11-24-2015, 10:50 AM

Let me know what trash can you throw it in so I can go get it.

I would throw the gun in the trash if I got 6" groups at 200 yards

BCgunworks

11-24-2015, 11:03 AM

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/24/e4bce8a5c2a16a539b5fa2be992bc42e.jpg

Couple 44 mags

ErnieBishop

11-24-2015, 12:12 PM

What is the weight of each?

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/24/e4bce8a5c2a16a539b5fa2be992bc42e.jpg

Couple 44 mags

BCgunworks

11-24-2015, 12:41 PM

50.7 oz and 60.2oz

jeff223

11-24-2015, 04:54 PM

I like the looks of those 44mag FR pistols.Nice

Im going to stick to my single shot Contenders for now but I will keep track of these FR pistols

Seancass

11-25-2015, 05:30 PM

I just went thru this thread from start to finish! I learned many things, but mostly, I need more practice with a wheel gun. I knocked right on the door of 10,000 rounds this year and I still can't shoot for real accuracy. (but I can shoot a lot Faster than i did a year ago!) :D

Maybe now that it's the off season I'll get back to work on that long range accuracy stuff. I'd love a new FR, but I think right now this indian is holding back the bow!

BCg, I love what you're doing! Keep pushing, keep innovating! Hopefully you'll have this thing about perfect by the time I have the money to order one up. I could always use another accurate revolver!

ErnieBishop

11-25-2015, 08:21 PM

10,000 rounds? Wow.
Maybe in the last 10 years with all weapons...

BCgunworks

11-25-2015, 08:23 PM

I use to shoot that much.....now I just have the time for accuracy..:violin:

paul h

11-25-2015, 09:16 PM

10,000 rounds? Wow.
Maybe in the last 10 years with all weapons...

That's only 200 rounds a week.

apen

11-25-2015, 09:29 PM

10,000 rounds? Wow.
Maybe in the last 10 years with all weapons...

A bullseye season is 2160 match rounds/year assuming a mar-oct schedule. Lots of people practice on top of that.

tazman

11-25-2015, 09:30 PM

Some of us take more trigger time than others to develop accuracy with a handgun(or other weapons for that matter). I have shot well over 10K rounds per year for the last 2 years(after a long layoff) and am just now getting to be what I would call competent. I have a ways to go before I would call myself accurate.
I will probably never achieve the kind of accuracy so often quoted in this thread (and no I am not referring to 44man). I am going to continue to improve as best I can and with the equipment and resources I have.
If all I had time for was accuracy, I would quit. That is too limiting. I have time for improvement and fun, both of which I accomplish regularly thank you.
I hope you enjoy what you do.
I think your Frankenruger design is great. If I were a handgun hunter, I would definitely consider one. It removes a lot of the inconsistencies introduced into shooting technique by hunting situations.

ErnieBishop

11-25-2015, 09:31 PM

I get that I just don't shoot that much

ErnieBishop

11-25-2015, 09:38 PM

Tazman, if you ever make it out my way, and it works at with our schedules we will do some do some shooting at distance, I think you'll be surprised what you can accomplish quickly.

tazman

11-25-2015, 09:56 PM

I have a sister in Montana I need to visit in the next several months. I will be coming through Wyoming on Interstate 90 during the drive. It would be nice to spend some time and see what you can do.
I know my skills won't impress anyone at this stage. I have never had the opportunity to shoot a revolver or other handgun, scoped or not, from a rest at any distance beyond about 35 yards. It would definitely be a chance to expand my experience in a good way.
By the way, I am in the process of buying a Blackhawk in 357 and will take possession this coming Saturday. What would you recommend for a scope mount for it?

BCgunworks

11-25-2015, 10:10 PM

For several years I played the speed games and prob burnt well over 10k those years.
Now for the most part I focus on smaller targets and farther away.

For the Blackhawk. There are several drill and tap mounts that will work.

ErnieBishop

11-25-2015, 11:22 PM

I live in Gillette.
I'm not looking at anyone impressing me or me showing what I can do.
I don't mind demonstrating, but what I prefer is to teach you how to get there and let extend your distance and tighten your groups.

I have a sister in Montana I need to visit in the next several months. I will be coming through Wyoming on Interstate 90 during the drive. It would be nice to spend some time and see what you can do.
I know my skills won't impress anyone at this stage. I have never had the opportunity to shoot a revolver or other handgun, scoped or not, from a rest at any distance beyond about 35 yards. It would definitely be a chance to expand my experience in a good way.

tazman

11-26-2015, 01:17 AM

I live in Gillette.
I'm not looking at anyone impressing me or me showing what I can do.
I don't mind demonstrating, but what I prefer is to teach you how to get there and let extend your distance and tighten your groups.

I think that would be time well spent for me. I will keep your offer in mind when I make the trip.
Thanks for the offer.

ErnieBishop

12-03-2015, 11:17 AM

If tracking is accurate, I should have my 6.5" 44 Magnum Redhawk/Franken-Ruger in my hands on Friday.
Christmas season can be crazy with shipping times. My Burris 2-7 LER with BP reticle should be here next week.
Hogue grips should be here right before Christmas.
Like an early Christmas present!

ErnieBishop

12-04-2015, 07:11 PM

tazman

12-04-2015, 07:18 PM

That looks like quite a hand full. BC does nice work.

ErnieBishop

12-04-2015, 07:20 PM

Thanks! It is lighter than the standard Redhawk with the same barrel length.
Waiting on a scope and some Hogue grips to make there way here now.

rintinglen

12-04-2015, 07:30 PM

Ernie, that is so cool looking. If the 44's measure up to the 357's, you will be the cock of the roost at the gun club.

ErnieBishop

12-04-2015, 10:55 PM

Thanks!

Ernie, that is so cool looking. If the 44's measure up to the 357's, you will be the cock of the roost at the gun club.

jeff223

12-05-2015, 07:48 PM

Nice FR Ernie.
Hope you can get to the range for some test shots before the winter hits you

Eric Wallice put a Ross brake on my Contender barrel.He did a great job and did it while I sat and watched him.
I would like to try a rifle scope on it too.I am thinking the Vortec Dimondback HP 4-16x with a side focus might be just the ticket and it wont break the bank either

Ramjet-SS

12-05-2015, 09:50 PM

It's Here! [smilie=w:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/7FD50819-9FDF-456A-A1D2-4B10CAC8BAD5_zpslu1qgn6a.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/7FD50819-9FDF-456A-A1D2-4B10CAC8BAD5_zpslu1qgn6a.jpg.html)

Outstanding I am really intrigued with these and will most definitely try one with a fast rate of twist in 44 Mag to shoot 275-325 grain cast LFN.

ErnieBishop

12-06-2015, 12:01 AM

Glad you got to spend some time with Eric.
Been awhile since we visited.
Vortex should work fine.
Chambering?

Nice FR Ernie.
Hope you can get to the range for some test shots before the winter hits you.

Eric Wallace put a Ross brake on my Contender barrel.He did a great job and did it while I sat and watched him.
I would like to try a rifle scope on it too.I am thinking the Vortec Dimondback HP 4-16x with a side focus might be just the ticket and it wont break the bank either

jeff223

12-06-2015, 08:46 PM

On my 357 max and if I do not like the rifle scope on it I have a 243 rifle the scope would work just fine on.

They also have a 3-12 that im thinking about.I still have four Burris 3-12 pistol scopes if I don't like shooting the rifle scope on a pistol but i think i will really like the added FOV of the rifle scope over the pistol scope

ErnieBishop

12-08-2015, 12:55 PM

I got rid of all of my 3-12's years ago. Now I kind of wish I still had one...

On my 357 max and if I do not like the rifle scope on it I have a 243 rifle the scope would work just fine on.

They also have a 3-12 that im thinking about.I still have four Burris 3-12 pistol scopes if I don't like shooting the rifle scope on a pistol but i think i will really like the added FOV of the rifle scope over the pistol scope

BCgunworks

12-10-2015, 06:00 PM

Smith and wesson 29 with custom 8 3/8 tapered barrel, crane ball, and more.

This is built with the lessons learned from our custom Franken Rugers. There is another thread on here with our stainless version.

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff460/bcgunworks/IMG_0388_zpspbxzgtyt.jpg (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/bcgunworks/media/IMG_0388_zpspbxzgtyt.jpg.html)

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff460/bcgunworks/IMG_0389_zpsd3swi0vm.jpg (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/bcgunworks/media/IMG_0389_zpsd3swi0vm.jpg.html)

Ramjet-SS

12-10-2015, 06:59 PM

How about a nickel version? I have classic model 29 but it is nickel plated.

BCgunworks

12-10-2015, 07:18 PM

I don't do much nickel in house anymore.

Ramjet-SS

12-11-2015, 10:38 PM

so how about a high polished fire blu barrel sure contrast but it may actually look very unique.

Plastikosmd

12-12-2015, 05:22 PM

Ok now you got me with a smith. Not a ruger guy. I will have to look for a donor gun for you now. Any caliber restrictions?

BCgunworks

12-12-2015, 07:15 PM

Ok now you got me with a smith. Not a ruger guy. I will have to look for a donor gun for you now. Any caliber restrictions?

just what fits

BCgunworks

12-12-2015, 07:15 PM

so how about a high polished fire blu barrel sure contrast but it may actually look very unique.

I do do plenty of nitre blue

Ramjet-SS

12-12-2015, 09:37 PM

I will contact you after Christmas so we can discuss.

BCgunworks

01-28-2016, 08:52 AM

We were on handgun radio discussing the Franken Ruger.

http://handgunradio.com/120-2/

ErnieBishop

01-28-2016, 12:52 PM

That was cool.
I was amazed at how long that was.

BCgunworks

03-21-2016, 09:38 PM

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160322/a2be44c71fda2a1c0ea08b08ff806941.jpg

In June at WYSHOT we shall see if we can take a pdog at 400+ yards with the 44 Franken Ruger!

ErnieBishop

03-22-2016, 09:55 AM

Will be shooting my 44 FR this week and maybe take a hog with it.

BCgunworks

03-24-2016, 08:27 PM

https://vimeo.com/160311912

Ernie running his 44 mag FR

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160325/38c03de8b3edde13e775f70574141e4f.jpg

His 100 yard group.

6" barrel. Factory ammo.

ErnieBishop

03-26-2016, 01:35 AM

Lightweight 6" FR's shoot pretty good.
In the video we were getting zeroed with some Remington 240 factory ammo.
The way we set the Chrono while shooting at 100 yards, I ended up shooting the 3-shot group (Hornady factory 240 grain XTP's) right-handed. Yes, I am a lefty.

jroc

04-11-2016, 12:19 AM

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160322/a2be44c71fda2a1c0ea08b08ff806941.jpg

In June at WYSHOT we shall see if we can take a pdog at 400+ yards with the 44 Franken Ruger!

Thats sweet lookin.

BCgunworks

04-18-2016, 07:28 PM

Thats sweet lookin.

Thanks. Cranking out more as we speak. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160418/a96fd86c0c3876a1689e6bc716aff575.jpg

BCgunworks

04-21-2016, 04:49 PM

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160421/4c2414961292d76cfad3fed9bdf0f96f.jpg

BCgunworks

04-29-2016, 09:28 PM

TCLouis

04-29-2016, 11:13 PM

Kinda off topic and not, BUT
How about some details on the hunt, BOOLIT/bullet and distance

BCgunworks

04-30-2016, 05:44 AM

That's a friend in Africa. He lives there. I know he uses a 180 flat point

ErnieBishop

08-18-2016, 11:10 AM

Responded to the PM

BCgunworks

10-01-2016, 05:31 PM

https://vimeo.com/185164478

41 mag drop confirmation to 152 yards

ErnieBishop

10-03-2016, 11:07 PM

After I fired the last shot at 150 yards I sent another one (not one video) and doubled my shot-That made me a happy boy.
Went over to the longer range. Again I was seated with Bog-Gear and made connections at 162 and 261 yards (6" steel). Lot of Fun!
Tried for the 10" at 382 yards but I was close to running out of optic, plus I was aiming so high I was clipping limbs. Time to quit and try another day.
Need to put the Leupold on for longer distances or go to a rifle scope with more internal MOA combined with a MOA reticle.

GSaltzman

10-04-2016, 06:45 PM

I bet a 357 Maximum would be an eye opener.

ErnieBishop

10-04-2016, 07:06 PM

it would be pretty fast

BCgunworks

10-24-2016, 09:35 PM

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161025/68901fac17ec69b0f934cdf72fbb3480.jpg

189 yards with a 357 FR

And a chip shot deer too

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161025/1c838936ae33f439c1e5794098bcb189.jpg

ErnieBishop

10-25-2016, 01:33 AM

Will get to the details later. Double shoulder shot on the Antelope buck, using Factory Hornady 158 grain XTP's.
It broke through bone pretty good on the off shoulder and found part of the bullet, just under the hide.
Dumped him on the spot.
I do need to switch my brain on as, it got disengaged what I would consider a non-wind issue at 200 yards.
7ish or 8 mph wind moves a revolver bullet a lot more at 200 yards than what I typically use.
More on that with lots of pics later.
I will say this, I am very impressed with what a 357 Magnum 158 XTP does on a double shoulder hit at just under 200 yards.
Going after more does tomorrow, and I will use my FA in 243 Win.
Dan is going to use my 357 Mag FR for a doe also.
Late in the day shot a small whitetail buck from the standing position that was facing me at 40-50 yards....quick shot.
He went down in about 40 yards.

Ola

10-25-2016, 03:35 AM

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160430/51ad2c09b7e42d298aa110a3a490703e.jpg

357 magnum is never enough gun.....unless your hunting elk size animals in Africa with a 4" Taurus.

Hahaha. Just for the caliber nay Sayers.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160430/b7baf545e45456f664b1a5eeb3a9bcde.jpg

I think .357 is considered minimum caliber for this kind of hunting in South Africa.
Think about it for a moment.. they may let you shoot a >2000 lbs Eland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_eland) with one.. :)

BCgunworks

10-25-2016, 06:41 AM

I think .357 is considered minimum caliber for this kind of hunting in South Africa.
Think about it for a moment.. they may let you shoot a >2000 lbs Eland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_eland) with one.. :)

The guy in those pics lives in africa. If you follow him on other forums you can see where over the past 10+ years or so that's all he's hunted with. A 4" Taurus 357.

And taken game to elk size with a 180 jacketed flat point.

Ola

10-25-2016, 01:43 PM

The guy in those pics lives in africa. If you follow him on other forums you can see where over the past 10+ years or so that's all he's hunted with. A 4" Taurus 357.

And taken game to elk size with a 180 jacketed flat point.

My point was not to bash .357. There are some places where one can hunt really BIG animals with a .357 mag revolver. It might not be ideal for the job, but it can do the job if the bullet hits the right spot.

That tells something about the cartridge considering the fact the Professional Hunters want their customers to succeed in their hunts. Only wounding the animal costs as much..in many cases thousands of dollars. Loosing animals because of unsuitable caliber would not be very "professional" and the customers would be quite unhappy.

GLynn41

10-25-2016, 05:29 PM

while I have not read all the posts (I will} -- to me the discussion got a little ugly for no reason-- I for one am glad to see the R&D as well as ability in the FR project-- I will not use a .357 on deer but not because it will not kill them --- too little for me-- I want to be able to take a raking shot if I want or chest on
and yes you can shoot too far-my limit is 100 yds for some of my 6 guns-- 125 or so for scoped TCs
To me a deer is easy to kill as long as I do my part-wounded is vastly different--
also I have killed pushing 200 deer-that would be with MZL--bow, handgun and Rifle-- mostly MZL and Rifle- not as many as some for which I take my hat off to them for that blessed attainment -good on you-but "I have seen a thing or two" my self _I hunt swamps and bottoms in West Tn--
last thought is a 40 cal 230 grain boolit @1300 fps-- or a .41 230gr @1300 not good enough? but a .44(.429) 230- 250 @ 1300 is-- yes I know you can go up to 300 + but do we have to have that for 90% of what we do? certainly you do if you want it--properly placed boolits from say cal .40 200 gr and up to the .44 300s are plenty for deer (-- and the ONE :) boar I have shot..) with a well placed shot-- the .454 .475 and 500 are on another level-- my sons 500 GNR is always an education to shoot--
The HeleryBeast is on the move and there are more behind her-- we need to disagree and point to where we as cast boolit guys can do better--but never to the point of losing our unity for the 2ND amend and a against the DIMS-- as well as the joy of our hobby and sport mho

BCgunworks

10-25-2016, 06:26 PM

He double shouldered at just under 200 yards. I'm willing to bet it would do quite well frontal or angled

ErnieBishop

10-25-2016, 07:03 PM

Buck I shot last night. 40-50 yards straight on. Standing shot. Crosshairs was right of center at the shot. Bullet went more than halfway the length of his body. Think it ended up in his intestines.
Plus what Chris said about the antelope.
I respect your choices for cartridges.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/B1893795-8D7D-4C7F-AE9B-37905D06F0C3_zpsbilri6po.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/B1893795-8D7D-4C7F-AE9B-37905D06F0C3_zpsbilri6po.jpg.html)

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/B1893795-8D7D-4C7F-AE9B-37905D06F0C3_zpsbilri6po.jpg

ErnieBishop

10-26-2016, 12:06 PM

I haven't had time to give the full story. Wrote this up late last night, early this morning. The facts are the facts, whether you like/agree with them or not.

I made up my mind what I was going to use for Wyoming deer and antelope this year about a week before I would hunt. My 357 Magnum Ruger GP-100…AKA Franken-Ruger had only killed steel out to 500 yards. In fact, I had not shot it since that time. I knew I couldn’t use the 170 grain Sierra Tournament Master bullet that I had a 100 or so rounds loaded.
After seeking the advice of several, I chose Hornady ammo, using the 158 grain XTP Hollow Point (.206 BC).
Muzzle velocity is 1471 from my 15” barrel.
The barrel is long on this, since it was special purposed for the 500 yard goal.
For hunting I would probably go with an 8-10, if I did it all over again.
But this sucker shoots so good, I don’t want to change anything on it. Dan Ekstrom, a good friend, zeroed it at 100 yards, and at the same time shot his smallest group ever with a revolver – 1.5” from the seated position using Bog-Gear tripod and the PSR top. He really likes that 357 Mag FR, to the point of being giddy.

At 150 yards the impact velocity where I hunt antelope is 1161 fps, 175 yards=1124fps, 200 yards=1090fps, 225 yards=1061fps, and at 250 yards the impact velocity is 1035fps.
So at 189 yards, the impact velocity is approximately 1100fps.

It takes 16 MOA for a 250 yard shot and 10 MOA for a 200 yard shot with my 357 Mag FR.
As a comparison, it takes 16.25 MOA for my 6.5 WSM XP-100 for an 825 yard shot.
A 5mph full value wind at 200 yards with my 357 FR drifts 6.4 inches.
A 5mph full value wind at 200 yards with my 6.5 WSM drifts .4 of an inch.
My 158 XTP drifts 6 inches more than my 130 grain Berger.

At 200 yards on game, I have never been concerned about a 5mph wind (until this week), while a 5mph wind at 200 is something I need to adjust for with my 357 Mag!
This is where I made my big mistake on my buck antelope.
My “wind brain” was switched to the “off position” when I was preparing to shoot my buck antelope.
Like I said previously, a 5mph wind is nothing in my hunting world.
I went through all of my other checklists to make sure, I was good to go, except wind correction. Full details at the bottom.

The 158 grain XTP Hollow Point is designed to work in the velocity range from 700-1400 fps.
http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/...ts_handgun.pdf (http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/catalog/2009/19-22_bullets_handgun.pdf)
Just for giggles, an Impact Velocity of 700 fps is just beyond 800 yards. I know no one is going hunt game at over 800 yards with this bullet, yet it is designed to work at 700 fps.
From Hornady, they say their bullet will work down to 700 fps.

The working range of impact velocities is a HUGE advantage for the types of use I have been putting my FR through, and to date this bullet has been exemplary on two deer (40-50 yards frontal shot, and 154 yards [not my kill] broadside) and one antelope (broadside double shoulder shot 189 yards).

Let’s talk about accuracy of this platform. When you have revolver capable of shooting a sub MOA group at 500 yards you have something special. This Franken Ruger is capable of that.
When you can consistently make hits at 200 and 250 yards on steel with shots only a couple inches apart while sitting on the ground and using Bog-Gear-I’m a happy camper. The scope is a Leupold 2-8 VX-3 (1/4 MOA clicks) and it has more internal MOA than any other LER scope. I added 40 MOA through the Burris Signature Zee Rings to boot when preparing for my 500 yard challenge. Dialing to shoot is something I do all the time. Using drop charts is something I do on a regular basis. I use high quality Laser Rangefinders, so I can know my exact distance-not a big deal here.

The revolver is capable, my field rest is capable, the ammo is capable, and the scope is capable. This leaves the variable of the shooter.
Sometimes he is capable, and other times he is not. Isn’t this true of any type of hunting?
Are 357 magnums capable of cleanly killing past 50 yards, 100, yards, 150 yards, 200 yards, and 250 yards.
To date, I can personally say, “Yes” to 189 yards.
The real proof of a bullet is what it actually does on game, not test gelatin, newspaper or water jugs.
These other things can be good references, and be good for comparing.
But, nothing is better than tissue and bone. It is the true test.
That being said, I am not claiming these few kills are the all in all, but it is a good start, combined with some other data coming from guys who are using 357 FR’s and taking game out to about 150 yards on more than one occasion with good results.
I am not saying, you should use one to hunt with.
I am not saying you should hunt at distance with a revolver.

Now let’s get to the shot. We had made a long stalk, and the two bedded bucks had no clue we were there. We were on a small saddle with a small hill to our right.
The buck I was shooting at was not broadside, but partially facing away from me or quartering away with his head to my right. I was facing south and he was facing southwest. At the shot, I expected him to go down, but instead he got up. I saw, or thought I saw and impact behind him, and I asked if I shot high or Dan told me I shot high (can’t remember which). High was the call, and I trusted the call. I trust my spotter, and Dan does a good job. Both bucks were up now, but not sure where the threat came from, I pulled the hammer back, and aimed low from the call, and my shot went exactly where I was aiming from a vertical standpoint.
My mind was racing, trying to figure out what was going on.
At the same time both bucks began to slowly trot off to our right. I immediately grabbed my Bog-Gear and Franken-Ruger and ran to the right, got on top of the hill, and set up for shot # 3 if I get one.
What we did not recognize at the moment was this: First shot was a hit, with the vertical being spot on, BUT as I have noted already, I was not holding off or dialing for wind. Shot one hit the front of the shoulder, and exited about the middle of the neck (Remember he was quartering away from me on the first shot). Shot #2 hit him also. I aimed low because we thought my first shot was high, and the second shot took hide off of the front of his leg.
So far, two shots. First one probably would have killed him. Blood was filling up in the front of his chest cavity (we didn’t know this at the time).
IF, IF, IF I would have accounted for wind, it would have been one and done at 247 yards.
But that is not what happened. This has been burning on me since Monday.
I was told I needed to aim high for shot #3, and I shot high and this time I clearly saw my impact.
NOW, I knew where to aim. From the time of the first two shots at 247 yards, as they moved to the right, they were now at 189 yards, and he is broadside now. Right after the third shot, I pulled the hammer back, I had not adjusted from my 247 yard dope, but I knew where my last shot was, and just used the reticle. I knew he was dead now. All of this time. I had been aiming for a behind the shoulder shot. I wasn’t trying for a shoulder shot. Dropped him where he stood.
My mind was still racing over the events of the last 30 seconds or so. Then Dan, says, “You shot him in the neck (speaking about my last shot).” I’m thinking to myself, “No way!” as I knew where I had been holding, but I could see blood all over his neck. I was not happy, but he was down.

When we went down to him, Dan noticed the blood spray from the last shot was about 10 feet long. He couldn’t believe a handgun bullet could do that at 189 yards from a double shoulder shot, and he was right.
What told the story was the autopsy. My two impacts on his shoulder were about 2” inches apart from each other, exactly side by side. One was from the first shot, that exited out his neck (The first shot), and the second one (Shot #4), basically centered (maybe a tad forward) on his shoulder, went through both shoulders, and broke a lot of bone on both sides, especially the off side. Part of the bullet was just under the hide on the offside. You can see it in the picture.
When I hit him with the double shoulder shot, the pooling blood from shot #1 exited his mouth and his neck. The spray width and length was impressive.

Folks, these are the facts. I was not nervous about this shot. I was pleased about our stalk and knew he was within my capability and the FR’s capability. I expected there to be one shot. I was sure I was going to kill him with one shot-I was wrong. Because I stayed on it, there was a good ending, teachable moments, and seeing that XTP wreak havoc was very pleasing.
The field rest was sufficient, the gun was sufficient, and the ammo was sufficient, the rest of my shooting skill set was sufficient, but the wind part of my brain was not.
I will not forget those 30 seconds. It has humbled me and taught me.
Would I attempt another 250 yard shot all over again in the same conditions?
Yes, in a heartbeat I would. I promise you though, I would be checking the wind.
Pics are from the offside shoulder.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/F8445784-4E66-41CE-9FB2-978367C793CC_zpsnpmvxr6w.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/F8445784-4E66-41CE-9FB2-978367C793CC_zpsnpmvxr6w.jpg.html)
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/F5BD199B-0DF9-4E55-BBD8-F2E33ABC84DD_zpsdlz34cqe.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/F5BD199B-0DF9-4E55-BBD8-F2E33ABC84DD_zpsdlz34cqe.jpg.html)
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/CB178389-3707-4218-A056-7A5A0F953DB2_zpsnvf3xkrq.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/CB178389-3707-4218-A056-7A5A0F953DB2_zpsnvf3xkrq.jpg.html)
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/6B39E40A-8FA9-4737-A60D-66A8C2F925CE_zpsgw9ch1bg.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/6B39E40A-8FA9-4737-A60D-66A8C2F925CE_zpsgw9ch1bg.jpg.html)
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/13E20F26-EBC9-41D4-A147-89DC67DFC9A0_zpshpfe90xi.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/13E20F26-EBC9-41D4-A147-89DC67DFC9A0_zpshpfe90xi.jpg.html)

ErnieBishop

10-30-2016, 07:59 AM

I had a lot of success hunting this past week using my GP-100 357 Magnum Franken-Ruger.
This revolver is stupid accurate. Used Hornady Factory ammo/158 grain XTP Hollowpoint. MV was 1471 fps.
Even set up Thursday night to look for elk, but they didn't show.
Had a great time!

189 yards sitting position with Bog-Gear
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/90917BAE-99F6-4AA4-8261-49B079F3856A_zps1entvzg9.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/90917BAE-99F6-4AA4-8261-49B079F3856A_zps1entvzg9.jpg.html)

40-50 yards standing with the buck facing me.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/E19C0734-F8F7-431D-A0B8-A716BC759705_zpst6m9rqst.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/E19C0734-F8F7-431D-A0B8-A716BC759705_zpst6m9rqst.jpg.html)

85 yards quartering shot, standing using Bog-Gear as a monopod...hurried shot
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/215DDE1F-D5B7-4AB2-A182-55E22A02FA9F_zpsfh9ojtwn.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/215DDE1F-D5B7-4AB2-A182-55E22A02FA9F_zpsfh9ojtwn.jpg.html)

99 yards double kneeling using Bog-Gear
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/6726700A-16C8-44C9-A6D3-98A7B8BCE7B9_zpskxoph88u.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/6726700A-16C8-44C9-A6D3-98A7B8BCE7B9_zpskxoph88u.jpg.html)

sixshot

10-30-2016, 04:49 PM

Last night I read this post from page 1 all the way through to Ernie's write up today, wow, that took some patience! I don't know how some of you stayed with it but a very interesting journey to say the least & it's very obvious that the gunsmith involved has done his homework & has made an outstanding sixgun that does as advertised. Very puzzling to see all the off topic remarks & negative comments made that had nothing to do with the project at hand.
Sure wish I still had a 357 Maximum as I think that would be a dandy platform for a build. Congratulations on thinking outside the box on this new up grade in revolver accuracy for those of us who love hunting with sixguns! Gotta figure out a way to tell a wet doe from a dry doe in the next few days without taking a milk bucket with me......

Dick

ErnieBishop

10-30-2016, 05:02 PM

Dick,
Your eyes must have been tired after reading all of that.
But you must admit, that some of it was quite entertaining, among other things.
My next distance grouping goal is 750 yards, then hopefully 1K.
Goal is NOT to hit the target, but shoot a group.
It will be interesting to see where failure will come in.

BCgunworks

10-30-2016, 06:17 PM

JavelinaBlanco

10-31-2016, 02:22 PM

ErnieBishop

10-31-2016, 03:33 PM

Nice shots sir!
Thank you JB.
It was a lot of fun, plus I have a lot of venison to boot.

BCgunworks

10-31-2016, 04:50 PM

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161031/ad0dfeac502763bb63817f5aa53c0680.jpg

Wrapping up a short one. :)

BCgunworks

11-01-2016, 01:28 PM

Sometimes coming up short is good!

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff460/bcgunworks/IMG_1244_zpsf6r6yt1n.jpg (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/bcgunworks/media/IMG_1244_zpsf6r6yt1n.jpg.html)

BCgunworks

11-02-2016, 08:35 PM

the 10" version weighs 6-8oz more than a factory 6" gp100.

this one is a 6.5" and I did not weigh it but I would estimate it weighs close to the same as a factory GP.

shot free recoil or very close to it.

158 XTP max load

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsJ0F0g9ugs

bluelund79

11-03-2016, 11:25 AM

I've followed this off and on since the beginning. I'm still green with envy. Those are some excellent looking and performing revolvers, and the results speak for themselves. Thank you for the continuance in sharing.

BCgunworks

11-03-2016, 11:52 AM

44man

11-03-2016, 01:31 PM

I love the rest but deer always come behind me! Any suggestions? Good shooting and good meat.

ErnieBishop

11-03-2016, 02:25 PM

What kind of blind do you use for hunting?

44man

11-03-2016, 03:10 PM

What kind of blind do you use for hunting?
Mostly ladder stands or a ground seat to use knees, but deer are stupid and never in front, some are moving or running full bore so an opening in front has to be found in the thick. Most shots are off hand.

BCgunworks

11-03-2016, 04:08 PM

If their behind you and running how in the heck do you check and see if they are a wet or dry doe....

ErnieBishop

11-03-2016, 05:46 PM

When I am in a blind I will have the bog-gear set up for One Direction and then I will have a more compact not as steady rest set up for the other side or quick shots

GSaltzman

11-03-2016, 07:12 PM

I found myself eye balling a GP 100 yesterday. This thing will get me yet! Good shooting Ernie!

ErnieBishop

11-04-2016, 01:47 AM

Thanks GS!
It was a lot of fun hunting with a FR this year!

ErnieBishop

11-04-2016, 04:23 AM

Mostly ladder stands or a ground seat to use knees, but deer are stupid and never in front, some are moving or running full bore so an opening in front has to be found in the thick. Most shots are off hand.

I don't shoot at running big game.
Moving??? Maybe, if it is consistent and slow enough.
I want to ensure I make good shot.

I don't have that skill set, others do.

44man

11-04-2016, 09:52 AM

If their behind you and running how in the heck do you check and see if they are a wet or dry doe....
Never worry, never seen a doe without milk. Depends on age of little ones. Most are old enough here when season opens. Spots and I leave her alone. Even with fawns almost as large as the doe, she will still have milk. I don't know how to tell unless you grab her and milk her.

44man

11-04-2016, 10:24 AM

I actually hit a running deer easier then a standing one off hand. Smooth swing gets the shakes out. Lead is kind of built in for me. Now a rest would be great but it is never in the right place.
Need to put one on a swivel.
I once took hair off a running woodchuck at 550 yards with my .44 flat top. Got the lead right but elevation was off a little. I pace an exact 3' for distance and might be a foot off at 500 yards. Years and years of chuck hunting to over 600 yards.
One of my best shots was a doe in the southern Ohio mountains, snow. We found tracks going up so I told my friend what to do but he messed up and booted the doe. she came down the hill like a boolit, leaping and bounding over brush. I hit her behind the shoulder with a TC Hawken at 125 yards on a full leap.
A rifle is so easy and a full run at 200+ is easy. I sold my rifles except my Swede that I customized, can't part with it. I don't hunt with it anymore. Confirmed revolver hunter.
I like what you show. A revolver is so good. Been years and years telling to get away from 7 yards and 25 yards and you make it work.
Now at my age can you make shakes go away? I will be 79 in Dec. More Jack or ridge ripple?

ole 5 hole group

11-04-2016, 11:25 AM

I'd definitely go with the Jack, straight up please. Another fine one to calm the "shakes" is E&J XO brandy straight up. If you gotta have a "reducer" then add ice. If you need to add anything else - you don't have the shakes bad enough.;)

sixshot

11-04-2016, 11:31 AM

BCgunworks

11-04-2016, 12:12 PM

Can this be done on single actions like a 357 Maximum? Trying to decide which way to go here? Ernie you're going to cost me some money. Also will the PSR top fit on a Trigger Stick tri-Pod or does it have to be a Bog-Pod, the latter is a little scarce around here but I can order one. The Trigger Sticks I can find local. Not wanting a straight 357, it will have to be a Maximum or a 44 magnum, thanks.

Dick

Won't work on a single action. The cyl pin and the ejector get in the way.

We do lots of stuff with single actions but they are more of your standard build.

For the rest it can be anything. You just want front and rear support.

I generally do these in he factory chamberings for the RedHawks and gp100. Not the super RedHawks.

When we attacked the accuracy problems from a different direction the factory cyl worked out just fine.

One must remember that we set everything extremely tight on these and the forcing cone is set up for jacketed bullets in the optimal weight range for the caliber.

Lead may not work the best.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161104/253d5c3234222819f9a8b72750915c6a.jpg

BCgunworks

11-04-2016, 12:15 PM

I know sixshot likes to shoot vermin with a wheelgun. How about out to 400 yards. :)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z0KHi80vCus

44man

11-04-2016, 01:33 PM

ErnieBishop

11-04-2016, 06:43 PM

Ernie you're going to cost me some money.
Also will the PSR top fit on a Trigger Stick tri-Pod or does it have to be a Bog-Pod, the latter is a little scarce around here but I can order one. The Trigger Sticks I can find local. Not wanting a straight 357, it will have to be a Maximum or a 44 magnum, thanks.

Dick

Dick,
Enablingmodeonwarpspeed!
I do not know if bog gear/ PSR top is compatible with trigger sticks, I've never tried it.
I can't find PSR tops anywhere right now as bog gear has discontinued them.
Looks like you'll be getting a 44 mag then.
The 357 mag will kill easily out to 250 yards on deer and I'm guessing given the design parameters of the Hornady 158 grain XTP hollow point to 300 yards. I know the accuracy of the system is there.
Some Whitetail and antelope are going to die next year in the process of learning how well that bullet does at 250 and a little bit further.
I know if I reloaded for my 15 inch FR with the 158 my velocity would go even higher.

44man

11-05-2016, 08:44 AM

It will be the bullet and I believe you are correct. Some expansion will be enough as long as you get enough penetration.
Made my .475 boolit too hard this year and shot through a deer behind the shoulder into a tree, ruined the tree but no blood after seeing hair driven into the tree. Got into stuff, blow downs with no trail. Razor blades grow there! Every other deer hit with the gun has dropped in place. I loaded cast soft points for the next go, have to grit teeth and move on.
I got away from the .357 when I shot IHMSA, hard to knock a 50# ram over at 200 meters. An old man would hit them and he loaded so hot he had to beat the S&W extractor on a 2X2 stuck in the ground. Even the .44 needed a good hit. Just need a good bullet for hunting.

ole 5 hole group

11-05-2016, 12:23 PM

E&J great until I seen the latest price. That brings on shakes too. :drinks:

$12 to $15 a 1/5th - that's not a real bad price, but if you have alligator arms, ya maybe.;)

Gonna be interesting to see what ole sixshot finally decides to do here - I can see him trading that Ruger Max for a GP, maybe 2 of them.:)

ErnieBishop

11-05-2016, 12:36 PM

Agreed. Bullet choice for the given task is vital.
I am not going to run my ammo hard, when I start loading for it.
Just looking for the best/most consistent accuracy I can find.
Right now, I am very pleased with Hornady's ammo!
I don't worry about knocking steel down, just enough to make lethal penetration with said bullet on deer/antelope size game.
The ability to place my first shot at distance/cold bore from field rests is a given, if I do my job.
Now it is determining the "science" as a friend of mine says.
As crazy as it sounds I was eyeing another GP-100 this week:mrgreen:

ErnieBishop

11-05-2016, 12:42 PM

If you are looking for a PSR top this may be one of the last places to get them.
https://www.natchezss.com/bog-hd-tripod-short-kit-w-shooting-rest-wide-body-rest-saddle-bag.html

sixshot

11-05-2016, 03:15 PM

You guys are enjoying rubbing this into me but I've brought it on myself & I'm enjoying the journey actually. The problem is I'm a revolver guy through & through, got out of the single shots after I came back from Africa & I had a bunch of them. Can't say I've ever shaved a ground hog (rock chuck here in Idaho) at 550 yds with a sixgun but I've thrown some lead that way from time to time.
I've also stood next to some of the finest revolver shooters in the world at Raton, New Mexico & shot out to 800-900 yds offhand & after a while we would make some hits but making a hit once in a while doesn't make you a shooter, being able to make a shot on demand like Ernie mentions is what separates the men from the boys.
Precious few revolvers have the accuracy or velocity to be able to make long range (something beyond 200 yds) hits on demand. I've killed a few deer pushing 200 yds & one elk at 168 yds. that were with iron sights on sixguns when conditions were perfect for the shot, other times I've passed on a 50 yd. shot. Iron sights are my favorite but 72 year old eyes are kicking my butt & I'm adding a few scopes & the rock chucks are blurry on almost every shot. Seeing these FR's & how B/C is building them & Ernie & some others are shooting them is exciting but I have to sneak up on new ideas & was hoping I could track down a 357 Maximum for a platform, one slipped through my hands yesterday. I sold my last one because it was spitting powder out the cylinder gap & peppering my face a bit. Did kill a buck at about 212-215 with it just before I sold it using a 180 gr. soft nose cast.
Last night I did the unthinkable for me. At our local club banquet I bought an old friends 22BR Encore!! It's a dandy & he hasn't shot it 50 rounds, probably not even 25. Has a 3X9 Burris on it, Bullberry Barrel (my African hunting partner) with a muzzle brake & amazing Bullberry wood. Never thought I'd jump back in but those rock chucks deserve me, not some rifle toting knuckehead from Pocatello or Utah! Still not sure what to do though, was looking forward to that 10 1/2" Blackhawk!
Ernie, I got the PSR rest from B & H Photo in New York, 1-800-947-9950 WWW. BandH.com
Here's a photo of the 22 BR I got last night at the Banquet!

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/B306165F-DB6E-47A4-ABF0-71C3E4D22667_zps9bt1k2rj.jpg (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/6shot_01/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/B306165F-DB6E-47A4-ABF0-71C3E4D22667_zps9bt1k2rj.jpg.html)

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/371784AD-CB17-4C87-867F-F3C22F07033F_zpsizeqvvnj.jpg (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/6shot_01/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/371784AD-CB17-4C87-867F-F3C22F07033F_zpsizeqvvnj.jpg.html)

Dick

ErnieBishop

11-05-2016, 06:22 PM

Dick,
We are supposed to enjoy the process/journey.
Thank you for letting us share your journey.

44man

11-06-2016, 10:44 AM

The people I met at IHMSA ran to two levels. Those that were the best always gave all the help they could and were the most pleasant ever. Then those that thought they knew it all and were always angry. They are hard to deal with and reject a powder change or such.
I shot with the best, Boyd Carpenter, Josie Engle, Blacky Sleeva, and many more. They walked the line and jumped in all the time to instruct and spot. Seen them throw their hands up because there are always a few.
The worst thing with a .44 was 4227,s but powder of choice in the .357 max. What you feed the gun, etc. is where it is.
Ernie knows that and what he does at range but I think our original problem came because I love the SA first. I had to change my opinion of Ernie, he knows what he is doing. He will make a revolver shoot like a rifle.
But there are still some that suggest 4227 for the .44 and I just grit my teeth. Or unique for 300 gr +. NOT. The case head says MAGNUM so you need a mag primer.
Dang, I just got blasted for shooting a golf ball at 50 yards with a .44 and .475. They don't know it can be done at 100+.
With a good scope and rest can Ernie hit a golf ball at 200 yards, no doubt at all. My shooting since I got old as dirt is an Ultra Dot.
My adventures with cast boolits is different then at IHMSA when most were Hornady bullets with some cast as I learned them. Took over 40 years with cast to make them right. Might be over 65 years with cast to start. A kid that hit 1" targets at 100 yards with the 358156 HP using a 27 from prone and since 1956 with the .44. I know it can be done.
You fellas don't know what is here with Ernie, Doug and so many.
Your loss is to stick with stuff that fails over and over.

BCgunworks

11-06-2016, 11:26 AM

I run imr 4227 in 44 mag and it does great....

ErnieBishop

11-06-2016, 11:47 AM

FWIW-I use optics too.

44man

11-06-2016, 12:02 PM

I run imr 4227 in 44 mag and it does great....
I admit to getting good accuracy but don't get the gun hot. Shoot 5 rounds under 2 minutes and get back. Get the gun in the hot sun too. The powder changes in the .44 and I don't know why. 15 or 20 out of 40 was the norm. and 16 clicks over my setting at 200 meters and hitting 50 meters short made me look. 296 did not give me any trouble.
A shot or 2 is OK. My best 200 meter group was 4227 but shot slow and cold. All the cussing on the line was from 4227.
Try an 80 shot course in the summer.
I shot 79 out of 80 at state with 296, shook on the last ram. 20 straight turkeys at 150 meters with opens from Creedmore and 19 rams will wear you out.
There is no way 4227 would do it. I watched velocity climb to the moon and primers get flatter every shot. As velocity climbed, shots hit lower every shot.
We can dispute but I will NEVER suggest 4227 in the .44. One shot hunting, OK.

ErnieBishop

11-06-2016, 12:03 PM

The straight-wall case I have loaded the most for hunting was the 454 Casull. For those that know me, understand I have used Used bottleneck single-shot specialty pistols hunting and competing primarily. In my 454's, the Rem 7.5's, H-110, and a 300 grain bullet and it worked great for both of them.
Never shot sillywet, so the majority of my shooting was hunting related.
Never even had a 44 Mag until about 8-9 years ago.
I let the gun tell me what it likes in terms of powder.
I will have what I expect to be the "given" powder/bullet choice on hand, but it doesn't always work that way.
I let the groups determine the direction I go.

BCgunworks

11-06-2016, 12:07 PM

I run 4227 a lot. And a lot in the FR guns. Never had a issue. And accuracy was great.

I could care less if it knocks over steel better or worse. That means nothing in practical field shooting.

As long as the gun runs and shoots accurately and pushes the bullet within it's intended velocity range for expansion that's all that matters.

44man

11-06-2016, 12:47 PM

It would work in the .357 too. It is only heat in the .44 that made the problems.
But for fast in the .44 296 has been best and 2400 a little below. Still a good old powder. I think some powders are cartridge specific.

sixshot

11-06-2016, 05:26 PM

44man, I thought you always used standard LP primers in your 44's, I must be wrong.

Dick

ErnieBishop

11-06-2016, 05:46 PM

After seeing some of 44 man's posts
I think that some of what he is saying is going to specifically be focused upon silhouette shooting.
The goal of doing a lot of sustained shooting and sometimes in hot conditions while at the same time being required to knock down steel targets.
Sounds like some guys were running pressures up to the very high-end and some powders perform a little bit better in those scenarios than others.
I find the same thing to be true in PRS matches or tactical matches with bottleneck cartridges.
A load in a shoot very good under normal shooting conditions or hunting conditions but then after you do a lot of sustain firing the pressures began to climb and problems begin.
For sustained shooting in warm conditions I choose a load that will run all day long no matter what the temperatures.
If I had the very same gun and was hunting elk or mule deer I might run a different powder or a or more grains of powder for the same bullet weight and be just fine

44man

11-07-2016, 10:03 AM

44man, I thought you always used standard LP primers in your 44's, I must be wrong.

Dick
Yes I do. And I tested every powder with both. I go to a Fed 155 at the .475 and up. Also cut down .460 brass in the .454.

44man

11-07-2016, 10:15 AM

sixshot

11-08-2016, 01:42 AM

Probably pulling the trigger too hard, that always increases velocity, pull harder, it goes faster! An old Indian woman told me that....... Easy to do shooting all those Soda cans like you do.

Dick

ErnieBishop

11-08-2016, 06:15 AM

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/Horse%20silly123_zps2ua0oyj1.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/Horse%20silly123_zps2ua0oyj1.jpg.html)

I like your sense of humor!

44man

11-08-2016, 09:30 AM

Thanks Dick, Almost spit coffee into the keyboard. :drinks:

sixshot

11-08-2016, 11:38 AM

We might all need a laugh after today, lets hope either way that our country stays calm. I'm sick of politic's but a little common sense goes a long way in a crisis. God bless our troops, our law enforcement & America!

Dick

BCgunworks

11-08-2016, 12:33 PM

44man

11-08-2016, 12:53 PM

Me too, just got back. Got the jar of smoked herring in cream sauce and will look for a drink later.
If it goes wrong I will buy a BIG bottle tomorrow.

ErnieBishop

11-08-2016, 04:57 PM

Emily and I voted last week to avoid the rush

chuckbuster

11-09-2016, 06:46 AM

Sixshot,
Your PM Inbox is FULL
Kevin

44man

11-09-2016, 09:33 AM

WOW, what a night! WE WON and to take Congress too.
A bottle is still in order to celebrate so let's raise a glass to each other.

ErnieBishop

05-19-2020, 12:21 AM

The Franken-Ruger continues to be enjoyable to shoot and hunt with.
Two most recent 357 Mag FR kills:
https://i.imgur.com/QAzAL09l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/A10NjH2l.jpg

snowwolfe

05-19-2020, 09:44 AM

Seems like the project is dead in the water. OP hasn't posted here in over 3 years.

Tatume

05-19-2020, 09:49 AM

OP is too busy building guns to post.

ErnieBishop

05-19-2020, 06:04 PM

Seems like the project is dead in the water. OP hasn't posted here in over 3 years.

Chris is quite busy.
I know this to be true.
He has been building FR's and RAAP's:
http://www.baysidecustomgunworks.net/s-w-ruger-advanced-accuracy-package.html
Plus custom XP-100's, Dominators, and other revolver and semi-auto work. He evens builds bolt rifles as well