Franken-Ruger

[pkie44]

That is good shooting, especially for a wheelgun, my hat is off to ya. I have managed to put a couple of 5" to 6" groups @ 175 yds. With a Blackhawk and 180 gr cast. Ernie will get going soon. :bigsmyl2:

[03fatboy]

That is pretty cool looking and nice shooting.

[44man]

Open sights at 200 meters, last two rounds I had left. Shot Creedmore. .44 mag SBH. My best was a 5 shot 2-1/2" group at 500 yards from Creedmore with a BFR. 4 out of 5 on a 6" swinger at 400 with a BFR .475. First shot a sighter. 136969
20 straight hits on a steel ram at 500 meters (547 yards) after my spotter walked me in with a BFR.
I see no advantage with the Franken. Plain out off box SRH or GP can do that. I seen many misses so cherry picking is shown.
Just watched a video shot with a GP at 500 meters with hits as good.
Not being a detractor but convince me the money is worth it. I want to see 5 shots in one hole at 100 only.
Yes, I am a sharp thorn, that shooting is not proof to me. Vision, hold and loading means more.

[BCgunworks]

Open sights at 200 meters, last two rounds I had left. Shot Creedmore. .44 mag SBH. My best was a 5 shot 2-1/2" group at 500 yards from Creedmore with a BFR. 4 out of 5 on a 6" swinger at 400 with a BFR .475. First shot a sighter. 136969
20 straight hits on a steel ram at 500 meters (547 yards) after my spotter walked me in with a BFR.
I see no advantage with the Franken. Plain out off box SRH or GP can do that. I seen many misses so cherry picking is shown.
Just watched a video shot with a GP at 500 meters with hits as good.
Not being a detractor but convince me the money is worth it. I want to see 5 shots in one hole at 100 only.
Yes, I am a sharp thorn, that shooting is not proof to me. Vision, hold and loading means more.

Since you love to be mr negative and a know it all.

Come on down. I'll pay for your hotel.

Well slide out to do another shoot and you can go home with your tail tucked.

That video was the first run thru with in confirmed drops.
Showing everything from start to finish.

One thing you will never do is accuse me of staging a video or photo.

Show your video. Or witness of your groups.

All I see is a bunch of pictures that could have been shot at 10 feet

This is a real group with nothing hidden. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/16/1ab65e5f0098408c829e7d38be7c8629.jpg

First three rounds were in 1.128". Then I blew the group and went to 3.9"

But guess what. It's posted.

[44MAG#1]

Jerry Miculek hit a steel plate at 1000 yards offhand with a 9M/M revolver.

[BCgunworks]

Jerry Miculek hit a steel plate at 1000 yards offhand with a 9M/M revolver.
Just once

[44MAG#1]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by 44MAG#1 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=3218242#post3218242)
Jerry Miculek hit a steel plate at 1000 yards offhand with a 9M/M revolver.



Just once.

Yes just once. But he hit it. With that Franken-Ruger you should be able to do that at 2000 yards offhand.

[BCgunworks]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by 44MAG#1 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=3218242#post3218242)
Jerry Miculek hit a steel plate at 1000 yards offhand with a 9M/M revolver.



Just once.

Yes just once. But he hit it. With that Franken-Ruger you should be able to do that at 2000 yards offhand.

An actual group at 1000 is possible. Off hand stunt shooting wasn't the point.

Are you 44mag's related?
you both have the same piss poor attitude

ill extend my offer to you as well. Lots of nice hotels here and I'll foot the bill. Come show me what you can do.

[44MAG#1]

This is not about me.

[ErnieBishop]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popc orn:



Open sights at 200 meters, last two rounds I had left. Shot Creedmore. .44 mag SBH. My best was a 5 shot 2-1/2" group at 500 yards from Creedmore with a BFR. 4 out of 5 on a 6" swinger at 400 with a BFR .475. First shot a sighter. 136969
20 straight hits on a steel ram at 500 meters (547 yards) after my spotter walked me in with a BFR.
I see no advantage with the Franken. Plain out off box SRH or GP can do that. I seen many misses so cherry picking is shown.
Just watched a video shot with a GP at 500 meters with hits as good.
Not being a detractor but convince me the money is worth it. I want to see 5 shots in one hole at 100 only.
Yes, I am a sharp thorn, that shooting is not proof to me. Vision, hold and loading means more.


:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
Nothing here..........................Same song, different verse

[BCgunworks]

pics of a recent GP build for a customer


http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff460/bcgunworks/IMG_0208_zpsw6n3cpfy.jpg (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/bcgunworks/media/IMG_0208_zpsw6n3cpfy.jpg.html)


http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff460/bcgunworks/IMG_0212_zpsigjvtxy2.jpg (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/bcgunworks/media/IMG_0212_zpsigjvtxy2.jpg.html)


http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff460/bcgunworks/IMG_0211_zpsfsxq7opc.jpg (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/bcgunworks/media/IMG_0211_zpsfsxq7opc.jpg.html)


http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff460/bcgunworks/IMG_0210_zpsxewa3tts.jpg (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/bcgunworks/media/IMG_0210_zpsxewa3tts.jpg.html)

[44MAG#1]

If I were going to carry a handgun with a barrel that long I would carry an Encore in a rifle caliber not a straight walled pistol cartridge.
A rig like that, although I like the looks of those Colin Clive created Boris Karloff guns, defeats the idea of a revolver for a packable gun.
Especially in a straight walled cartridge, with the exception of the 45/70.

[BCgunworks]

No where was it said it was designed to be pack able.

[44MAG#1]

"No where was it said it was designed to be pack able."

I said it defeated the idea of a packable handgun I didn't say you said it was packable.

[BCgunworks]

I sure had no problem getting it to a stand and taking game

[44MAG#1]

"I sure had no problem getting it to a stand and taking game"

People get rifles to the stand. I have a buddy that weighs 334 pounds and he gets his rifle and himself to a stand and hunts quite a bit. Plus his daypack.
That still doesn't make the Franken-Ruger a "packable" gun. Come on you know what is meant by packable. One can get 50 BMG to a stand. That doesn't make it a "Packable" rifle.

[ErnieBishop]

What is your definition of packable ?

[BCgunworks]

Who cares if it meets you specifications. I sure don't. I sold 6 this week alone so far

[44MAG#1]

"What is your definition of packable ?"

As you know, or I hope you know, packable has many definitions. As I said in the post above a 50 BMG is packable but at the same time not "packable" by any stretch of the imagination by any reasonable minded person.
Now if one could get a 50 BMG in an 8 to 9 pound rifle and still be able to shoot it reasonably well it would be packable for a rifle.
So packable is many things to many people. A large man may like to conceal a Desert Eagle in 50 AE as a concealed carry gun while a man that is 5'-6" and a 135 pounds may want an LCP in 380.
You know good and well there is no definition I Could come up with that you couldn't pick to pieces.
Let set up a poll and let everyone decide if that Franken-Ruger is a packable gun. Keeping in mind just because it can be transported to and from the stand doesn't make it "packable" in the true sense of the word. No more so than the above 35 pound 50 BMG is.

[ErnieBishop]

The Franken Ruger can be built with a variety of barrel lengths.
Since you were using this word I figured you would have a definition Of what it means to you

[44MAG#1]

"Who cares if it meets you specifications. I sure don't. I sold 6 this week alone so far"

I am happy for you I hope you sell many. People will buy anything just for the Wow factor at the range or just to experiment with.
ive done it myself. Many have.

[44MAG#1]

"The Franken Ruger can be built with a variety of barrel lengths.
Since you were using this word I figured you would have a definition Of what it means to you"

With a reasonable barrel length, we won't go there, it may be nice.
Maybe 6 inches.
Have me one made and send it to me in 44 Mag and I am sure I will cherish it for the rest of my life.

[BCgunworks]

I don't know why "pack able" is even in this conversation.

This whole thread was started months ago to show new process that has been proven to work. And yes it has been proven.

No where during the entire process was the point made that it was pack able....fit your needs...or whatever.

What it has been proven to do is enhance accuracy and reduce the impact of a rest on accuracy.

This has been proven shooting with the shroud system from a rest then removing it and shooting without it.

Testing began early on with heavy barreled ppc type guns like this one I built. But yup. A rest changes their point of impact too.

And yes I can shoot a wheel gun, a rifle, an auto, and everything in between. Those that have seen me shoot know this.

My statements are facts...not made up or exaggerated shooting stories.

So let's take a poll.....who always posts negative know it all stuff in any thread. That's 44mag

And 44mag#1 has decided he has a personal grudge against this setup and me I suppose.

Well give me a call. I'll book you a hotel room. Come on down and we can do some shooting. I'll even buy you a meal.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/16/4aece6d9ee9bb7624d3e8b4db001681a.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/16/521381dff4059d15f3eec6fc4a17074a.jpg

[44MAG#1]

"And 44mag#1 has decided he has a personal grudge against this setup and me I suppose.

Well give me a call. I'll book you a hotel room. Come on down and we can do some shooting. I'll even buy you a meal."

As I said before this isn't about me. It is about your "creation".
i would prefer an Encore in a rifle caliber rather than a revolver with a looooooooooong barrel and a straight walled pistol cartridge.
Yeah what's with a 125 gr bullet in the testing? Why not a 158 or a 160?

[BCgunworks]

Because in getting set up to kill a prarie dog at a quarter mile or more

[BCgunworks]

And all the bullets start to equal out past 300 yds.

[44MAG#1]

"And all the bullets start to equal out past 300 yds."

Then a 158 gr would kill a praire dog then too.

[BCgunworks]

So will a 22 lr.

Lighter bullets also make the brake work better. The gun hardly moves

[44MAG#1]

"Lighter bullets also make the brake work better. The gun hardly moves"

With a barrel that long recoil shouldn't be a problem to being with unless one is very recoil sensitive. And besides any movement will move the cross hairs off a target that is very small (praire dog) anyway.
How long is that barrel???

[Tatume]

This is about as silly an argument as I have ever witnessed. If you prefer an Encore, then buy an Encore. You are not being forced to buy a gun from BC Gunworks. If you don't want one, don't buy one.

I will add, I've met Chris, he worked on one of my guns and I was very impressed. He has now worked on two of my guns, and his workmanship is excellent.

Sometime I'll explain the difference between mass and weight.

[Mooseman]

There is no reason to downgrade a Gunsmiths creations here because you may not like it. If its not for you , dont buy it !
Rich

[BCgunworks]

The fr with a 10" barrel on weighs 6oz more than a factory 6" gp

[44MAG#1]

"Sometime I'll explain the difference between mass and weight."

How about explaining it now. I am talking about it being weighed. Which we all know it can't because mass can't be weighed.
Although it has Newtonian weight that is derived from Kilograms. Kilograms which is a measure of weight. So kilograms must not exist either.

[44MAG#1]

"There is no reason to downgrade a Gunsmiths creations here because you may not like it. If its not for you , dont buy it !
Rich"

For your edification on post #262 I said I like the looks of it. I am not running down the work. What I see it looks good.

[BCgunworks]

For those that would like to know. He has just admitted to being a "troll" and trying to stir the pot. Posted for general info. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/16/688e312fc6187541d9ba9bb0454ea605.jpg

[apen]

Just watched a video shot with a GP at 500 meters with hits as good.

I don't think so. I don't know what the group was because only half hit the gong. The FR shot 3.9" for six at 350 which is 1.1 MOA.
If I had to guess, I'd say that mine were within 30" at best.....one really low hit. That's 5.5 MOA. I don't think the MOA will swell that much in the next 197 yards.

[BCgunworks]

I don't think so. I don't know what the group was because only half hit the gong. The FR shot 3.9" for six at 350 which is 1.1 MOA.
If I had to guess, I'd say that mine were within 30" at best.....one really low hit. That's 5.5 MOA. I don't think the MOA will swell that much in the next 197 yards.

Thatnk you for your honest response.
if the weather holds I'll be trying 500 this weekend. On video of course. And showing every shot

[BCgunworks]

By the way it was 5 at 350

[Mooseman]

Just remember Trolling etc. is a violation of the terms of service you agree to when signing on here.
Mods have no way of knowing what your intentions are , just what we read and what others report.

Rich

[BCgunworks]

The FR 500 yd shoot produced some hits but we had switching winds and it was playing hell with us. Winds were 10-15. With a 5mph wind we have a 10moa correction for 500 yds. We shall give it another try soon.

[Tatume]

BCgunworks has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

[ErnieBishop]

His contact info is on his website. You can always email him.
460 Holly Point Road
Mathews, VA 23109
804-832-9545
bcgunworks@verizon.net

[Tatume]

Hi Earnie,

Yes, I know. But he only seems to answer here. Anyway, I'll drive over and visit with him on Friday if I don't hear from him before then.

Take care, Tom

[BCgunworks]

I pick up the phone and respond to emails quickly!

[Ramjet-SS]

Interesting thread.

44 man the argument you are trying to make about the barrel being off the bags is irrelevant as the bullet has exited the barrel before the barrel lifts off the sand bags. Do the math it's simple.

1200 Feet/second that means or 14400 inches / second so a 4 inch barrel the bullet is gone in .00006944 seconds................yea it's gone before the barrel comes off the sandbags.......geeeeeesh

I like the the concept of the longer sighting plane as well as the extra velocity from the longer barrel. Tried and true concept that has been around for as long as I have been alive. Solid reasonable advantages to the design. The added twist of free floated barrel I s a nice touch conceptually makes good sense.

[shoot-n-lead]

Ernie, did you ever post any reports on the FR?

[Tatume]

44 man the argument you are trying to make about the barrel being off the bags is irrelevant as the bullet has exited the barrel before the barrel lifts off the sand bags. Do the math it's simple.

1200 Feet/second that means or 14400 inches / second so a 4 inch barrel the bullet is gone in .00006944 seconds ... yea it's gone before the barrel comes off the sandbags.

I'm not taking a position against the Frankenruger; I like it and will probably own one eventually.

However, this argument is flawed. First, the bullet does not begin its journey at 1200 fps; acceleration is not instantaneous. Second, no matter how small an interval has elapsed when the bullet exits the barrel, the recoil impulse has already started. Recoil begins at the same instant that the bullet begins to move. No calculation (or estimate) of when the bullet exits the barrel will predict that motion due to recoil begins after the bullet has departed.

Take care, Tom

[Ramjet-SS]

I would love to see some super fast slow motion video. Just to understand it more.

[apen]

The gun moves as soon as the hammer starts falling.

[ole 5 hole group]

I would love to see some super fast slow motion video. Just to understand it more.

OK Ramjet, just for you - here's a couple days of back & forth on that very subject, on a different forum, several years ago. You need to read all posts, won't take but 10 minutes, maybe longer if you start to think about some of the explanations.;) You just can't get away from Newton 3 and I don't care how hard you try.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-540863.html

[44man]

I'm not taking a position against the Frankenruger; I like it and will probably own one eventually.

However, this argument is flawed. First, the bullet does not begin its journey at 1200 fps; acceleration is not instantaneous. Second, no matter how small an interval has elapsed when the bullet exits the barrel, the recoil impulse has already started. Recoil begins at the same instant that the bullet begins to move. No calculation (or estimate) of when the bullet exits the barrel will predict that motion due to recoil begins after the bullet has departed.

Take care, Tom
Correct, the revolver is 100% dependent on barrel rise and hold. The barrel will be off the bag before boolit release. You add weight to reduce rise. To free float makes no sense since the barrel is off the bags so added weight might act to reduce rise. Barrel nodes or vibration has left the bags. Short pistol barrels have been proven more accurate then long rifle barrels. I have shot 5 shots into 3/8" at 100 yards with 10" pistol barrels and shot pennies and nickles at 100 with them.
BC is a great gunsmith but I will have a doubt about free floating the revolver since my best at 500 is 2-1/2" and 4 out of 5 on a 6" swinger at 400 with the first shot a sighter. A short barrel does not vibrate and is off the bag too soon. It is the weight like a Ruger SBH hunter.
Funny I hit 1" targets at 100 back in 1953 with a S&W 27 from prone.
I will take a BFR and whip the daylights out of any gun as far as you want to shoot.

[BCgunworks]

We're not doing anything for wallet groups....or one time...or anything like that....Ernie pulled off some great shooting at 500 yards...the video is on here somewhere...sub MOA..he still wants to do more as time allows....he's out hunting elk now...and I'll be out hunting soon as well...

here is a video of me shooting pdogs from shooting sticks to almost 400 yards.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z0KHi80vCus

physics applies to everything. Thinking it doesn't apply to one item out there.....well that's just nuts.

Anything that touches a barrel has an affect on the barrel....that includes ejector rods, sights, scopes, mounts, or whatever, and also most importantly includes your rest.

there is a lot more going on here than just a "shroud". That just helps you eliminate on variable. The barrels have been turned to specific diameters for each caliber, tension into the frame is set at a particular inch pound for each caliber, frames and cylinders are trued, and the list goes on.

the barrels end up being a smaller diameter than the factory barrels....this w
orked out best for optimal accuracy. A ton of testing went into finding the right diameter for each caliber....a lot of trial and error. But this did have a huge impact.

since physics applies to anything....and everything...atleast on this subject...it's should be simple to grasp the fact that what applies to a rifle...applies to a pistol...there is absolutely no difference on the physics side.

[44man]

OK, I will go with what you have done. Seems you put a lot of thought and work into it.
How have larger calibers worked out, I have a distaste for the .357?

[BCgunworks]

I have shot the 44 to 300 so far....and just under 200 on pdogs....no big game taken yet. It does just as well as the 357.
the 357 has more advantage in the distance game...has less recoil...smaller bore so the brake also works better....and it shoots flatter.

[44man]

I bet a .357 max would reach out. My .44 has the most drop but ya know 330 gr boolit!
I have yet to test drop with the .500 JRH. My range to 200 is knee deep in weeds and the seat rotted away. I need to find some scrap wood.

[ErnieBishop]

Amazing claim...
Any gun???
Any Distance???
Are you serious, or did you post this before you had your morning coffee?:coffee::coffeecom


I will take a BFR and whip the daylights out of any gun as far as you want to shoot.

[44man]

Amazing claim...
Any gun???
Any Distance???
Are you serious, or did you post this before you had your morning coffee?:coffee::coffeecom
I do not joke. it really comes down to the gun and the loads.
But BC might make the gun fit better. I consider him a master with what he does.
I can put you behind my revolver with a 1" target at 100 yards and you will hit it. You Can out shoot me if your eyes are better. I get out shot a lot but it is with my guns and loads. When they go home and load, they can't do it.
So even with poor loads in BC's guns. The guns are not better, it is what you feed them.
Does the free float work? I can't go there yet. Maybe it is from better gunsmithing and loading.
No test has been done with BC's barrel without the free float shroud compared with it. Remove the shroud and show it is better.

[tazman]

44man has worked a lot of years on how to make a perfect cartridge for his revolvers. He now has it down to a science for his guns. I have used some of his techniques in my own guns and they have improved my groups substantially. I am not in his class as a pistol shot. I just want to do the best I can.
BCgunworks has put a tremendous amount of time energy and thought into the design of his new pistol. It looks and sounds like it will be a real improvement over most standard revolvers, particularly for a hunting gun where a perfect rest may not be available. The science and experimentation he put into it looks to have paid off big time. When I get enough money and time together, I will have one of his revolvers.
I admire the focus and determination it took for both of these men to accomplish what they have.

[ErnieBishop]

My point is that no one is better than everybody on every day.
Second, your BFR's may not be set up to shoot as far as as another gun may be.
Third, you never qualified what type of gun, you just said "ANY GUN". I am pretty sure I know what you meant, but that is NOT what you said:mrgreen:
I have a # of "handguns" (Forget the ANY guns) that would embarrass your BFR's at any distance (not to mention distances a lot further than you have hit targets at) from about any shooting position.
I know you are a good shooter.
My encouragement is that you consider your words when you type.
I consider myself a good shooter, but I get out shot by different people, and by different guns that are not my own at times.
A goal I am tinkering around with right now is a 3000-3000+ yard connection this summer with a specialty pistol.
Plus, I am considering a 700-750 yard goal with my Franken-Ruger. A Group, not just hitting the target.


I am NOT anti-BFR, but stacking up well made custom handguns against a BFR, may not always come out with the BFR winning.
I understand precision reloading and how important that it is, but when we start talking distance in all kinds of conditions, the nut behind the trigger is very important as well.
Precision shooting is a systems approach.


I will take a BFR and whip the daylights out of any gun as far as you want to shoot.

I do not joke. it really comes down to the gun and the loads.
But BC might make the gun fit better. I consider him a master with what he does.
I can put you behind my revolver with a 1" target at 100 yards and you will hit it. You Can out shoot me if your eyes are better. I get out shot a lot but it is with my guns and loads. When they go home and load, they can't do it.
So even with poor loads in BC's guns. The guns are not better, it is what you feed them.
Does the free float work? I can't go there yet. Maybe it is from better gunsmithing and loading.
No test has been done with BC's barrel without the free float shroud compared with it. Remove the shroud and show it is better.

[BCgunworks]

Just a chip shothttps://vimeo.com/142793170

[Ramjet-SS]

The way I see it the free float shroud would remove some variables in shooting a non free floated barrel. Now that said I am with 44man anything but the 357 magnum. 357 Max that's way better. Better yet a 445 Supermag with a 300 grain hard cast with rate of twist appropriate for that hammer.

[rlb]

152903I'm looking forward to seeing what the 44 does. I could use a long poker out here. My 12" 44 does pretty good, but there's room to improve.

[BCgunworks]

152915152916

The farthest I have taken big game with the 44 so far is 100 yards. I did shoot p dogs to 200. There is a video in this thread of me doing that and also shooting the 357 on dogs to 400.

[rlb]

That's a pretty good looking gun. I'm going to work on a cow elk next weekend with my 44. I feel confident that it should punch a hole through one out to 150 with a 310 cast bullet. I'll keep following your work and progress. Thanks again for thinking outside the box a little.

[44man]

We get old but back in the day, I did crazy stuff. Took hair off a running chuck at 550 yards with a Ruger flat top with a 429421 and 22 gr of 296, off hand, standing, open sights. No, I did not kill it but found hair.
I will reserve any advantage with free float for a revolver.
What is that huge barrel on a .44 with a suppressor all about? Or is that a .357 rifle?

[BCgunworks]

Hey look. 44man is back.

It's called a muzzle brake.

And the barrel is what the customer wanted.

[44man]

Hey look. 44man is back.

It's called a muzzle brake.

And the barrel is what the customer wanted.
So long that barrel noids will be found. But why a brake? That gun is so heavy it is like holding a log out.
Yeah I got the name wrong for the brake, so sue me. Never found a use for the extra junk. More noise. Milk toast hands.

[BCgunworks]

152940

Prior to final blend. 6.5" 44

[ErnieBishop]

Why are you criticizing a customer who wants a custom handgun the way that he wants it to be?
Have you ever considered that there are reasons why a person would want a muzzle brake that really doesn't have anything to do with having sensitive hands?
Wow! Are you always that critical of something that doesn't fit inside your own box?



So long that barrel noids will be found. But why a brake? That gun is so heavy it is like holding a log out.
Yeah I got the name wrong for the brake, so sue me. Never found a use for the extra junk. More noise. Milk toast hands.

[44man]

Most accurate revolver in history is the BFR. I don't care if you spend your house mortgage on a custom.
Nobody has ever made a .357 better then the old S&W 27 with an 8-3/8", ribbed barrel. I do not think BFR can make a .357 as good. I know Freedom can't. Neither will Ruger.
Now there is magic. I ask for cast but am not right. I ask for too much. Make cast do what is claimed from the Franken, I might perk up but will still beat it.

[BCgunworks]

152941

Two more ready.

Longest deer to date with a 357 Franken Ruger was 220 yards with a 180 lead hp gas check.

[ErnieBishop]

Most accurate revolver in history is the BFR.
Ha! You are a funny man

[44man]

Why are you criticizing a customer who wants a custom handgun the way that he wants it to be?
Have you ever considered that there are reasons why a person would want a muzzle brake that really doesn't have anything to do with having sensitive hands?
Wow! Are you always that critical of something that doesn't fit inside your own box?
Muzzle break is to reduce barrel rise for fast shooting. Or to reduce recoil. Why with a .357? The Franken was made for long range, not a cylinder spin at light speed.
Until I get one to test I refuse to say anything pro or con. I am NOT Taffin. I would not lie to get money from an advertiser. Every single post here is for a short barrel so who would want a 15" Franken? Then add a brake. Short rifle like an XP.
You are not allowed a short rifle to shoot with me. Do you know where a revolver ends?
Funny that none of those guns have done better.
I will not go anywhere on SS so come here and prove it. My range is open with those that laugh and we will make videos.
Send me a Frankin and loads with other guns to test. I will return every one after. I will not cheat but will tell the truth. Do not send a Freedom, the Franken will make it look sick.
Ernie, my box is revolver accuracy. My box is to make everyone shoot a revolver as good as can be. I have no tricks or special guns. Spend more money when an out of box can beat it.
Can I get a Frankin to test? Not hardly.

[BCgunworks]

Muzzle break is to reduce barrel rise for fast shooting. Or to reduce recoil. Why with a .357? The Franken was made for long range, not a cylinder spin at light speed.
Until I get one to test I refuse to say anything pro or con. I am NOT Taffin. I would not lie to get money from an advertiser. Every single post here is for a short barrel so who would want a 15" Franken? Then add a brake. Short rifle like an XP.
You are not allowed a short rifle to shoot with me. Do you know where a revolver ends?
Funny that none of those guns have done better.
I will not go anywhere on SS so come here and prove it. My range is open with those that laugh and we will make videos.
Send me a Frankin and loads with other guns to test. I will return every one after. I will not cheat but will tell the truth. Do not send a Freedom, the Franken will make it look sick.
Ernie, my box is revolver accuracy. My box is to make everyone shoot a revolver as good as can be. I have no tricks or special guns. Spend more money when an out of box can beat it.
Can I get a Frankin to test? Not hardly.

Your more than welcome to come here and shoot one. And the ammo is here. Eat toast and cheese for a month and save the gas money.

Your not a writer. And you have no standing on multiple forums or anything so it wouldn't make sense for me to send you one.

Plus with your credibility being destroyed by other castboolits members in the rifle vs revolver thread there would be even less to gain from your approval.

I send free guns or guns at cost to people worth the investment.

[Ola]

BCGunworks: I'm very interested in all the work you do when converting a Ruger to a Franken-Ruger. If this has been asked before, be kind, and point me to the right direction.

Thanks.

[BCgunworks]

Besides the obvious barrel and free float shroud.

The shroud does nothing but give you a place to rest the front of the firearm without changing point of impact.

Action work/timing/lock up as needed

Proprietary forcing cone and our bc gap is set between .001-.003. Depending on the caliber and type of bullet.

A good bit of R and D went into the barrel diameters for each caliber. As well as bc gap and forcing cone.

Those specs and reasons are guarded a bit.

In a nut shell we have applied everything learned from the rifle world to a handgun. And it has worked.

Poking pdogs out to 400 yards with a handgun off a field rest is no easy task. 152946

[ErnieBishop]

Surely not fast shooting. Anyone who would think that.....
Some people want a lighter recoil so they can use a lighter grip and shoot from a variety of positions and not get bit even is they used a rifle scope (Even though most don't). I have no clue what Chris' customer will do. That is his business.
I am sure NOT sending you mine (The 357 Mag or the 44 Mag 6.5" barrel).
I could care less what you think about my handguns. Call all the names you want.
Do I know where a revolver ends? Again, really?
You must remember I am a novice and you are the expert when it comes to wheelguns.
I am not the sage.
It would interesting what could be accomplished at 500 yards, if I was a better shot, and chose to make a serious effort, like not using a progressive press (I did), like not using new brass that hadn't been trimmed (just out of a bulk bag with no prepping).
Like not choosing the load based on the chrono instead of on paper at 100 yards. Just shot at 100 to get my zero solid.
Or even if I was actually used to shooting that handgun.
I had no more than 3 cylinders (ammo that had been loaded for a 586) full through it before I went to shoot at 500 yards back in the summer.
You seem to assume that if my barrel was 10" or 8" or 7" that I would not be able to to shoot under 3-shots under 3" at 500 yards on that summer day. The main difference would be more drop...That's it.
That would be a dangerous assumption.
Come see you? No offense, but that is not going to happen. I have nothing to prove to you.

I have already showed what I wanted to show with just one time out with the FR at 500 yards.
Quick and easy.

Could I get a smaller group? Probably.
Is it that important for me to do that now? No.
My 6.5" Ruger Redhawk (FR) is probably more your style....Probably not, as it has a brake on it:happy dance:
My 357 FR will have the barrel cut down in the future. Not sure how short right now.
I'm glad you like your BFR's.





Muzzle break is to reduce barrel rise for fast shooting. Or to reduce recoil. Why with a .357? The Franken was made for long range, not a cylinder spin at light speed.
Until I get one to test I refuse to say anything pro or con. I am NOT Taffin. I would not lie to get money from an advertiser. Every single post here is for a short barrel so who would want a 15" Franken? Then add a brake. Short rifle like an XP.
You are not allowed a short rifle to shoot with me. Do you know where a revolver ends?
Funny that none of those guns have done better.
I will not go anywhere on SS so come here and prove it. My range is open with those that laugh and we will make videos.
Send me a Frankin and loads with other guns to test. I will return every one after. I will not cheat but will tell the truth. Do not send a Freedom, the Franken will make it look sick.
Ernie, my box is revolver accuracy. My box is to make everyone shoot a revolver as good as can be. I have no tricks or special guns. Spend more money when an out of box can beat it.
Can I get a Frankin to test? Not hardly.

[Ola]

So, where's the Franken here? IMO you are doing all the RIGHT things! First you turn Rugers to what "they should be" (action work, timing, lock-up) and then you make them as accurate as possible.

About hitting a pdog to 400 yards with a REVOLVER.. Do you have a dedicated chamber to do that? Or can you use any of the chambers with the same confidence?

[BCgunworks]

So, where's the Franken here? IMO you are doing all the RIGHT things! First you turn Rugers to what "they should be" (action work, timing, lock-up) and then you make them as accurate as possible.

About hitting a pdog to 400 yards with a REVOLVER.. Do you have a dedicated chamber to do that? Or can you use any of the chambers with the same confidence?

I use all 6 chambers. I refuse to pick just one.

[BCgunworks]

Here is the video. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z0KHi80vCus

[dtknowles]

152941

Two more ready.

Longest deer to date with a 357 Franken Ruger was 220 yards with a 180 lead hp gas check.

I am sure I don't think that shot is ethical. Even if the accuracy is assured for an effective shot placement it would seem to be way short of enough gun to be reliable for taking anything but small deer. How fast do you think that slug is moving at 220 yards. Might just be me.

Tim

[BCgunworks]

I am sure I don't think that shot is ethical. Even if the accuracy is assured for an effective shot placement it would seem to be way short of enough gun to be reliable for taking anything but small deer. How fast do you think that slug is moving at 220 yards. Might just be me.

Tim

If it's against your ethics then don't do it.

But dead is dead.

Remember we are running longer barrels with tighter bc gaps. The velocity is much faster than your standard gun. I can't remember the velocity off hand but I'm thinking it was over 1500

[BCgunworks]

Ran the numbers best I could remember. At 200 yards is going about 1100 fps with 9.4 Moa of drop.

[44man]

I have never, ever said BC is not a good smith, bringing together the best fit and components.
He also does like I do, there is no chamber alone better then another. I am with that 100%.
It is only the need to float a revolver that I need to see.
No I am not a writer and do not want the stigma of the claim, most don't know Einsteins theory that if you run a circle fast enough, you can screw yourself.
Proof is what I live with, Never less. I will not go crazy, Just 50 to 500 yards on paper.
I know I will never test a Franken Ruger because I am not a writer to promote anything and will tell the truth. One would never be sent to Taffy either because it wold be shot from a Ransom.
If it works, why is it not seen anywhere but here? Gun rags will make a page for it.

[BCgunworks]

I have never, ever said BC is not a good smith, bringing together the best fit and components.
He also does like I do, there is no chamber alone better then another. I am with that 100%.
It is only the need to float a revolver that I need to see.
No I am not a writer and do not want the stigma of the claim, most don't know Einsteins theory that if you run a circle fast enough, you can screw yourself.
Proof is what I live with, Never less. I will not go crazy, Just 50 to 500 yards on paper.
I know I will never test a Franken Ruger because I am not a writer to promote anything and will tell the truth. One would never be sent to Taffy either because it wold be shot from a Ransom.
If it works, why is it not seen anywhere but here? Gun rags will make a page for it.

Its in the hands of lots of customers. Who post on other forums, Facebook, and other social media.

[Ramjet-SS]

How much do these cost?

Floated barrle makes sense it removes one of the variables and perhaps more it that the cylinder alignment may not be as critical. Plus it must totally remove the three restrictions found on most revolvers.

[rlb]

Ya know Jim, there's no wonder that while on WDIL forum, you kept coming back there after rambling on another forum and saying how everyone was picking on you. This is why. You just don't know when to shut your mouth and leave well enough alone. A lot of people have learned a little from you and then you blow it with **** like this. Leave these guys alone and go have another Oly.

[BCgunworks]

Ya know Jim, there's no wonder that while on WDIL forum, you kept coming back there after rambling on another forum and saying how everyone was picking on you. This is why. You just don't know when to shut your mouth and leave well enough alone. A lot of people have learned a little from you and then you blow it with **** like this. Leave these guys alone and go have another Oly.

Hahahaha

[rlb]

I would gladly shot one or more of Chris's guns as long as he came with them and taught me the proper technique and would visit about smithing. Just like I would like to spend some time with Ernie learning his knowledge about SP's and his techniques for long range. These guys have tons to teach in their own area and Ernie is trying to improve in another area. Don't bash them because they have open minds and are open to improvement.

[BCgunworks]

I would gladly shot one or more of Chris's guns as long as he came with them and taught me the proper technique and would visit about smithing. Just like I would like to spend some time with Ernie learning his knowledge about SP's and his techniques for long range. These guys have tons to teach in their own area and Ernie is trying to improve in another area. Don't bash them because they have open minds and are open to improvement.

Thank ya.

[ErnieBishop]

I used all 6 chambers as well at 500 yards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcyPO0nPAf0&list=FLfEoqqK-q7iARmKwk742NZg&index=2

So, where's the Franken here? IMO you are doing all the RIGHT things! First you turn Rugers to what "they should be" (action work, timing, lock-up) and then you make them as accurate as possible.

About hitting a pdog to 400 yards with a REVOLVER.. Do you have a dedicated chamber to do that? Or can you use any of the chambers with the same confidence?

[ErnieBishop]

Thanks!
Yes, I am still learning, and plan to continue in that journey with a variety of different weapon types.
If you want to hit two birds with one stone, pop on over to NE Wyoming in June for WY-SHOT and you can shoot both of my FR's and several SP's while you are at it, not to mention whatever Chris brings and close to 30 other guys with all kinds of handguns.
Short range to LR on steel and pd's...Fun, Fun, Fun!!!

I would gladly shot one or more of Chris's guns as long as he came with them and taught me the proper technique and would visit about smithing. Just like I would like to spend some time with Ernie learning his knowledge about SP's and his techniques for long range. These guys have tons to teach in their own area and Ernie is trying to improve in another area. Don't bash them because they have open minds and are open to improvement.

[44man]

I never say bad about a person. I just want proof from a theory.
BC and I would be best friends and I would listen but just show to bring me in. I did that kind of shooting with a S&W 27 back over 65 years ago, able to hit 1" targets at 100 yards. 8-3/8" ribbed barrel with a Phantom scope. Shot prone.
i took hair off a running wood chuck at 550 yards with a flat top Ruger .44. off hand.
When you show 1" groups at 700 yards, show it or let me tell you it is Bull at the highest order.

[ErnieBishop]

1" groups at 700 yards???? Seriously??????
Some of your statements bring a smile and a laugh. Today I needed that.
I have never shot a 1" group at 700 yards in my life with any kind of weapon.

[Love Life]

I'll take guns for...ummm....testing. How long can I keep em'!?

[ErnieBishop]

Head this way, and I will let you shoot them. You just pay for the components replacement.
Send For Testing......No:mrgreen:

I'll take guns for...ummm....testing. How long can I keep em'!?

[Love Life]

Drats!

[SSGOldfart]

I used all 6 chambers as well at 500 yards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcyPO0nPAf0&list=FLfEoqqK-q7iARmKwk742NZg&index=2
Sweet shooting Your the Man with that one was it rounds you cast?

[BCgunworks]

I never say bad about a person. I just want proof from a theory.
BC and I would be best friends and I would listen but just show to bring me in. I did that kind of shooting with a S&W 27 back over 65 years ago, able to hit 1" targets at 100 yards. 8-3/8" ribbed barrel with a Phantom scope. Shot prone.
i took hair off a running wood chuck at 550 yards with a flat top Ruger .44. off hand.
When you show 1" groups at 700 yards, show it or let me tell you it is Bull at the highest order.

Be a good idea to look at posts above from other members and the rifle vs revolver thread.....lots of members showing their "support" for your claims. :veryconfu

[BCgunworks]

Sweet shooting Your the Man with that one was it rounds you cast?

Those were the Sierra 170 match

[Mooseman]

I guess some people never heard of Buntline Revolvers and bicycle guns...
With that said , If the custom Franken Ruger is not for you , you dont need to come on the mans thread and poop on it.
Rich

[ErnieBishop]

Thank you sir.

[rlb]

Well said.

[dtknowles]

If it's against your ethics then don't do it.

But dead is dead.

Remember we are running longer barrels with tighter bc gaps. The velocity is much faster than your standard gun. I can't remember the velocity off hand but I'm thinking it was over 1500

I think each hunters ethics reflect on the community and the continued health of the sport. With all the pressure on the Hunting community why not use a more appropriate gun/cartridge or limit the range to match the gun/cartridge's capability. Dead is dead, is addressing a single successful event not the probability of success which is the ethical question. How likely is a humane kill in the given situation.

Tim

[BCgunworks]

I think each hunters ethics reflect on the community and the continued health of the sport. With all the pressure on the Hunting community why not use a more appropriate gun/cartridge or limit the range to match the gun/cartridge's capability. Dead is dead, is addressing a single successful event not the probability of success which is the ethical question. How likely is a humane kill in the given situation.

Tim

If the bullet works at the given velocity and the shooter can work with the conditions. Then in my eyes it's a go.

Some don't like the long range rifle shots either.

As long as one practices the given distance. Knows what the projectile will do. And has confidence in the shot. Have at it.

And of course one needs the right equipment to do such things.

If someone isn't confident in what they are doing then they shouldn't do it.
My limitations don't set someone else's limitations. And others limitations don't set mine.

[dtknowles]

Ran the numbers best I could remember. At 200 yards is going about 1100 fps with 9.4 Moa of drop.

That is not far off from what I expected, maybe a 50 to 100 fps more than I would have guessed. Back when people just started seriously using handguns on deer, Jeff Cooper wrote and article about minimum cartridge for deer and he acknowledged that it is not a clear cut choice. Deer come in all different sizes and velocity can make up for lighter bullets and smaller calibers and he was talking semiautos and revolvers not bolt guns or single shots. He went down the list of common semiauto and revolver rounds of the day (not 40 S&W or 10 mm or 45 GAP, ect) His conclusion was that the round should be 40 caliber or greater, have a 200 grain bullet or greater and a velocity of 1000 fps or greater. He made two exceptions to these rules one for a hot 45 ACP handload, he said that if your load was close to 1000 fps with a 200 grain bullet that it might be alright. The second exception was a hot .357 mag from a long barrel revolver. He did not say what velocity the .357 needed to deliver but I am sure he was expecting more than 1100 fps at the target. He considered these exceptions to be marginal along with 38-40, 44-40, 44 special but 41 mag., 44 mag. and hot 45 Colt handloads good choices. Why use a marginal gun when good choice abound, especially when you have the money and equipment to make or buy whatever you want? Not trying to knock the Franken Ruger, it just does not seem to be the right tool for shooting deer at 200+ yards, maybe better saved for shooting coyotes.

Tim

[Love Life]

A discussion what is, or is not ethical, along with a person's capabilities would be a great idea for another thread...

[paul h]

Handgun hunting is no different than rifle hunting. 95+% is shot placement. The only thing is when "marginal" guns are used the blame is placed on not using a powerful enough gun, vs. putting the blame where it belongs, on the muffed shot. There are plenty of deer wounded and lost shot by 454's, 500's and various large bore magnum rifles.

This thread has rekindled my interest in accurate revolvers and a Franken-Ruger 357 is on my list of I wanna guns. I get way more satisfaction shooting small groups with a revolver than a single shot pistol or rifle. Most revolvers aren't up to the task.

[BCgunworks]

It should go in another thread I reckon. But I'll close with this and repeat myself again

One persons limitations don't dictate the next persons.

All bullets have a velocity range they will perform in. This was well within that range for the bullet.

This same discussion comes up all the time. Not just related to this thread.
The common trend now is bigger is better....for example when you go with an outfitter they generally want your rifle to say magnum somewhere.

The only way to truly know what works is to test it.

All the various formulas give you a reasonable guess but nothing can be confirmed until it is done.

Not the first animal I have taken with a 357. And there are many in history who have taken much larger critters with one.

When I hear this discussion I just smile and think about my grandfather killing deer, black bear, and elk with a 25/20.....

[apen]

Would it be possible to make one of these with a shroud that goes to the end of an eight or 10" barrel?

[ErnieBishop]

LL,
It is not thread title, but I will give my 2 cents.
One as mentioned not all deer in all areas of the US are the same size. What was a mature deer to Chris in SC, I considered a yearling when it was by itself.
Here is my take and I am not asking anyone to adopt it. You have to live with your own choices/decisions.
If an impact velocity with a certain caliber/bullet type continues to kill good and you have the capability to put it in the vitals=Green light!
If you are unsure you can deliver the bullet in the kill zone=Red light.
If you know the impact velocity is too slow to ensure the bullet will do the job you want, even if you are capable of putting it in the kill zone=Red light.
Some bullets/impact velocities work beyond (at slower speeds) what the manufacturer or current wisdom says.
Some bullets/impact velocities require faster impact speeds than what the manufacturer or current wisdom says.
This is where real life in the field (more than one time) trumps current wisdom or even a manufacturer's information

[BCgunworks]

No. The hole boring equipment maxes out at under 6".

[dtknowles]

A discussion what is, or is not ethical, along with a person's capabilities would be a great idea for another thread...

Good point, I will not divert this thread much longer, my point was not really about the Franken-Ruger more about the cartridge. BC did make reference to elk and 25-20 that is not in the spirit of letting this go. I will bow out and let the big time hunters talk about killing big animals with small guns after all people kill hogs and cows with .22's. I think my point was lost and I don't care.

Tim

[44man]

1" groups at 700 yards???? Seriously??????
Some of your statements bring a smile and a laugh. Today I needed that.
I have never shot a 1" group at 700 yards in my life with any kind of weapon.
Hell NO, not with anything and never said so. But claims are made.
My claim is to load right for revolvers but to tell the truth, the .357 is a pain for me.

[rlb]

Hitting 1" targets at 100 yards isn't that hard if ya put enough lead down range. The running chuck at 500 thing, well that's just pure luck. This stuff is sounding a lot like the stuff from a famous gun writer from way back when. Sh@# is gettin' deep.

[44man]

If the bullet works at the given velocity and the shooter can work with the conditions. Then in my eyes it's a go.

Some don't like the long range rifle shots either.

As long as one practices the given distance. Knows what the projectile will do. And has confidence in the shot. Have at it.

And of course one needs the right equipment to do such things.

If someone isn't confident in what they are doing then they shouldn't do it.
My limitations don't set someone else's limitations. And others limitations don't set mine.
Now you make me admire you more. This post is as it should be.
I do not dislike you at all. I just question mechanical things. Ernie is a good man too.
Then i was told I poop on stuff, That is true until I see it work. tell me you shoot pure from a revolver or 1 to 16 at 1500 fps without problems and I have a ton of dog poop for you.
Maybe you have something that is better. Would I be wrong to ask for 100 yard groups or 200? You need a one hole 10 shot group at 100 to get the gun to shoot long ranges. I won't make a claim like that. Not going to be done. so how does a 500 meter or longer shot happen?
I can show a 100 yard can shot with my revolver for 5 shots. I had to walk down and set it up after every shot. No way to get it the same. 153072 It is the hole in the top. Others are friends rifle shots.
Then Marko's new BFR at 100, He shot and the can did not move. I took the next shot and we found this. 153073153074
Why am I wrong to ask what you do?

[Love Life]

Video was posted of the gun being fired at long ranges. Better proof than a paint can. I don't know why you're hell bent to poop all over this thread. Want proof? Plop down the money, buy one, and prove it out.

[BCgunworks]

As a note for the admin of this forum.

First off thanks!

This project started well over a year ago. Never in my mind did I think I would be going into production with this thing.

The goal was just to see just how much distance and accuracy could be squeezed out of a wheelgun.

Applying rifle technology to a wheelgun is a somewhat new area.

This was never intended to be a salesman post. Or advertising. It was just a sharing post for my crazy idea that has worked.

Thank you for tolerating it for over a year. It keeps on growing and we keep on doing more with it.

[BCgunworks]

Video was posted of the gun being fired at long ranges. Better proof than a paint can. I don't know why you're hell bent to poop all over this thread. Want proof? Plop down the money, buy one, and prove it out.

We have found one of those special people....very special.

[ErnieBishop]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTfh6OKvIgk
The only time I have ever shot/grouped at 100 yards was with 2 different prototype FR's a year ago this past September, using Extremunition (Factory ammo) shooting off of Bog-Gear. First time I had ever shot these pistols before.
If you were paying attention earlier, I made it clear I did not group at 100 yards the day we did the 500 yard shooting. I simply confirmed I was zeroed at 100 and we went to 500 yards.

[44man]

If the Franken can shoot to unreal distances, it should make one hole groups at 50, 100 and 200.
I have shown mine. You will not do it any more then I will.

[Love Life]

You haven't shown any one hole groups.

[ErnieBishop]

I have only grouped mine at 500 yards.
Let me ask you again, to pay attention to what has been said already about this.

If the Franken can shoot to unreal distances, it should make one hole groups at 50, 100 and 200.
I have shown mine. You will not do it any more then I will.

[BCgunworks]

I almost always shoot steel at distance. But shooting MOA at any distance will more than work.

The one 200 yard 44 FR paper group I posted was around 1". Can't remember where I posted it and I don't keep stacks of photos around from the past.

A prairie dog is about 2-3" wide. 8-10" tall. I hit those at what. 397-398 yards.

[ErnieBishop]

100 yards. Again with a prototype FR/factory ammunition and shooting off of Bog-Gear. This same target is in the video I just posted.
After that we were seeing how fast we could shoot and hold a good group size.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/657EEABB-D30E-4930-978C-BDD405654126_zpss8gwdxl2.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/657EEABB-D30E-4930-978C-BDD405654126_zpss8gwdxl2.jpg.html)

If the Franken can shoot to unreal distances, it should make one hole groups at 50, 100 and 200.
I have shown mine. You will not do it any more then I will.

[44man]

Zero at 100 and go to 500!!! Wow, where do you aim? No scope has enough adjustment. do you aim 30' over?
i am not going there because I know what it takes out there.

[44man]

You haven't shown any one hole groups.
i did.153079

[Love Life]

200 yards? 5 shots?

[ErnieBishop]

A note to 44man,
First, since you are not going to believe anything until you see it with your own eyes or do it yourself, you might as well accept it that you are not willing to accept any information from anyone. Then there is all the innuendo that some how we have been lying or stretching the truth. Honestly, I am tired of it. You seem to be so locked in to it can't happen unless it is with this handgun...that you are missing the forest for the trees.

[rlb]

See, I told people that Keystone Ice will tweak your mind.:veryconfu

[BCgunworks]

I used a bushnell elite 2-6 handgun scope with Burris zee rings shimmed up 20 Moa. I was able to zero at 100 and adjust my scope to 500+ yards

The elite has 50+ Moa of travels leupold has 70+

[ErnieBishop]

For someone who promotes himself as "The King" of accurate revolvers and distance, you sure are ignorant at times or you just don't pay attention to what is said, or at times you are not able to understand. I don't know which it is, but there is a pattern here.
Hold over? Seriously??? That would be a stupid thing to do and expect consistent accuracy.
LR is my game. My hobby. Holdover?...HA!
The Leupold VX-3 has more internal adjustment than any LER scope out there.
Second, I used Burris Signature Zee Rings, and put 40 MOA into the rings. No holdover. Just listen to the video again at 500 yards and I explain where I was holding for the 2 different 3-shot groups. NO HOLDOVER!
AS I said in my last post you are not listening or paying attention to what has been said multiple times.
You just seem to ignore parts of what is said, take the part of it that you want to respond to, then continue with your typical rhetoric.



Zero at 100 and go to 500!!! Wow, where do you aim? No scope has enough adjustment. do you aim 30' over?
i am not going there because I know what it takes out there.

[44man]

For someone who promotes himself as "The King" of accurate revolvers and distance, you sure are ignorant at times or you just don't pay attention to what is said, or at times you are not able to understand. I don't know which it is, but there is a pattern here.
Hold over? Seriously??? That would be a stupid thing to do and expect consistent accuracy.
LR is my game. My hobby. Holdover?...HA!
The Leupold VX-3 has more internal adjustment than any LER scope out there.
Second, I used Burris Signature Zee Rings, and put 40 MOA into the rings. No holdover. Just listen to the video again at 500 yards and I explain where I was holding for the 2 different 3-shot groups. NO HOLDOVER!
AS I said in my last post you are not listening or paying attention to what has been said multiple times.
You just seem to ignore parts of what is said, take the part of it that you want to respond to, then continue with your typical rhetoric.
No I did not ignore anything. BC told about his rings and i also told about tapered bases so you ignored me too.
Standard stuff does not work Yes I have used "hold over" and Kentucky windage How great to put the cross hairs on the target but it does not happen so all that have the gun and scope without a tapered base or rings to adjust will NOT shoot far without hold over.
Why do you toss this junk at me. Do you think I am stupid?
Now I will bash again. BC said he sighted at 100 and went to 500 but said he had adjustments.
I doubt you have ever shot past 25. You have not shown basic principals for long range. Hey Ernie, How to sight at long range? Do you know once too far your scope will quit.

[BCgunworks]

It's just a 45moa correction to 500 yards with a 125 grain xtp at 1900 fps

I think I hear your nurse calling. It's meds time!

[Love Life]

No I did not ignore anything. BC told about his rings and i also told about tapered bases so you ignored me too.
Standard stuff does not work Yes I have used "hold over" and Kentucky windage How great to put the cross hairs on the target but it does not happen so all that have the gun and scope without a tapered base or rings to adjust will NOT shoot far without hold over.
Why do you toss this junk at me. Do you think I am stupid?
Now I will bash again. BC said he sighted at 100 and went to 500 but said he had adjustments.
I doubt you have ever shot past 25. You have not shown basic principals for long range. Hey Ernie, How to sight at long range? Do you know once too far your scope will quit.

I would assume that anybody who shoots long range anything will understand the use of, and need for, bases/rings with built in elevation and have the appropriate knowledge to know how much MOA (MILs if tactical) adjustment range they'll need to shoot the distance they want.

[BCgunworks]

I would assume that anybody who shoots long range anything will understand the use of, and need for, bases/rings with built in elevation and have the appropriate knowledge to know how much MOA (MILs if tactical) adjustment range they'll need to shoot the distance they want.

We're dealing with someone who used the SWAG skill set.

SWAG. Simple wild *** guess.

Hahahah!

[44man]

[QUOTE=Love Life;3433032]I would assume that anybody who shoots long range anything will understand the use of, and need for, bases/rings with built in elevation and have the appropriate knowledge to know how much MOA (MILs if tactical) adjustment range they'll need to shoot the distance they want.[/QUOTE
True. But pistol scopes do not have enough adjustments, not sniper rifle scopes.
Do you know as elevation is taken too far windage is also moved as pads ride around the tube.

[rlb]

Any reputable scope manufacturer would not build a scope to such low quality.

[BCgunworks]

Any reputable scope manufacturer would not build a scope to such low quality.

What he said.

Ya know some of these specialty pistol shooters go to almost 2000 yards with quality optics.

[BCgunworks]

Ya know they quit using horse hair for the scope cross hairs a long time ago

[pkie44]

:popcorn:

[rlb]

:popcorn:

[paul h]

Ya know they quit using horse hair for the scope cross hairs a long time ago

Yea but BS seems to be the same as it ever was.

[ErnieBishop]

Doubt and bash all you want.
You are right, I have never even shot at 25 yards, maybe it was 24 yards was the max distance..I probably don't have a clue about the basics of LR shooting or shooting in general.[smilie=w:
I have already made it clear you are what I call a, "True Believer."
I got harder in my response because, regardless of the information, you keep on beating your drum.

My response is primarily for those that are keeping up with this thread.
People who are paying attention can tell the difference, and I welcome that.
Your questions reveal either your knowledge level or just your stubbornness or both...

I have had numerous people watch me shoot at distance for fun and in LR comps, and yes even in Nationals, and at Worlds (If that is important to you) with a variety of different handguns (Specialty Pistols) and yes even with some rifles.
I primarily use SP's and then rifles some, as I have said before when it comes to distance.
This was my first attempt with a revolver at 500 yards, and I was very pleased with the results!

Let's walk through this again...
The manufacturer gives how much internal MOA their scope has.
I actually checked to see how much it had (which was more than what was listed-COOL!).
You take the BC (Sierra lists theirs), elev, Humidity, sight height, etc, and plug that info in along with the MV, and you get a computer generated drop chart (I used EXBAL). I guesstimated a MV before I went up to Frank's place to shoot. The chosen load shot slower than my estimate (we chronographed the loads at Frank's place). I reran the lower MV (1234 fps) through the software and came up with a starting point for MOA at 500 yards (61.75 MOA for drop). This is not difficult to do. This is with a 100 yard zero.
I had plenty of internal MOA with the Leupy since I added 40 MOA through the rings. Do the math!
Dialed it no problem. NO HOLDOVERS! Why holdover when you can hold spot on and be more precise?
I have three different ballistic software programs for my iPhone, so I had those with me as well.
I did not have to guess or holdover to hit the target. My computer generated drops were off slightly, as I was shooting high (about 2-3 MOA). didn't write this down, so I don't remember exactly. Then I started putting hits on steel and it became a conditions/wind game.
Wind not only will move your bullet right or left, it can also have a vertical component (terrain can magnify this greatly at times).
Of course mirage can be ornery too, but it can also be a great conditions indicator if you are paying attention.
Yea, I seem to remember that all scope turrets will bottom out after awhile:popcorn:
Anyone who is preparing to shoot at distance is going to make sure they have enough adjustment to hit their target at the max distance they are going for.


No I did not ignore anything. BC told about his rings and i also told about tapered bases so you ignored me too.
Standard stuff does not work Yes I have used "hold over" and Kentucky windage How great to put the cross hairs on the target but it does not happen so all that have the gun and scope without a tapered base or rings to adjust will NOT shoot far without hold over.
Why do you toss this junk at me. Do you think I am stupid?
Now I will bash again. BC said he sighted at 100 and went to 500 but said he had adjustments.
I doubt you have ever shot past 25. You have not shown basic principals for long range. Hey Ernie, How to sight at long range? Do you know once too far your scope will quit.

[ErnieBishop]

No way! That is NOT possible:kidding::bigsmyl2:

What he said.

Ya know some of these specialty pistol shooters go to almost 2000 yards with quality optics.

[daniel lawecki]

What is the cost of your Franken Ruger .357 muzzle brake and 8" barrel ?

[BCgunworks]

Pm sent

[rlb]

Pm me also on 44 price. Thanks.

[ErnieBishop]

In a week or so I should have my Redhawk 44 Mag FR in hand. Chris will probably post some pics of it before that though

Pm me also on 44 price. Thanks.

[rlb]

Well, unless I come into some money, I'll just have to keep squeezing my single actions for more accuracy and whatnot.

[BCgunworks]

153120

6.5" 44 and a 10" 357 almost done.

[rlb]

Lookin' good.

[ErnieBishop]

Getting excited!

[BCgunworks]

153149153150


6.5" 44 and a 10" 357

[BCgunworks]

The 44 is 4oz lighter than a factory RedHawk!

[rlb]

That's nice that you can keep the weight down on them.

[ErnieBishop]

That 6.5" 44 Mag Franken Ruger will end up having some Hogue wood grips (back ordered), and a Burris 2-7 LER with the Ballistic Plex Reticle.
Gotta love it, an FR that is lighter than it's factory counterpart...Field practical for sure.

[rlb]

Wished I had that on Sunday when I my cow season opens.

[Ramjet-SS]

That 6.5" 44 Mag Franken Ruger will end up having some Hogue wood grips (back ordered), and a Burris 2-7 LER with the Ballistic Plex Reticle.
Gotta love it, an FR that is lighter than it's factory counterpart...Field practical for sure.

Yup make it 7.5" add a brake with a twist rate for 300 grain LFN CG Cast ....that would an outstanding gun for just about anything.

[ErnieBishop]

It is a 6.5" barrel plus a brake. I imagine I can do everything I want with it.

[Tatume]

153149153150


6.5" 44 and a 10" 357

Ernie,

Chris showed me your Ruger today, and I was so impressed that I committed to one myself! Very nice, indeed.

Take care, Tom

[ErnieBishop]

Thank you. I know several people who are going to follow similar lines with a 44 Magnum FR.

[ErnieBishop]

Tom,
Anyone who knows me, would be able to express what my thoughts would be about a Ruger revolver 2 years ago - Meh...
I knew they were good enough for hunting accuracy and that they were strong, but...they just didn't trip my trigger.
Now, with the FR conversion - YIPEE!!!!
Just never dreamed a revolver could be that easy to shoot from field positions and be so accurate.
I have purchased 2 Ruger revolvers in less than a year. That is a record for me.
Do you know what you are going to do in terms of barrel length and such?

[Tatume]

Do you know what you are going to do in terms of barrel length and such?

Personally, I like Rugers. But then, I like S&Ws too.

Yes, I'm going with a heavy contour barrel 8" long, no brake.

Take care, Tom

[GSaltzman]

Just a question. Could this be done on a Super Redhawk somewhere down the road? Any plans? Got to say this is indeed impressive as I have watched the videos. Not only for the performance of the gun but the shooters themselves. Great job guys!

[BCgunworks]

Super RedHawks don't play nice when you try and pull the barrels.

Since the goal of these guns is increased accuracy from field positions it seems we will loose some when we go over 44mag/45 colt+p.
From recoil energy alone.

As we go to bigger bores the bullets get wider but don't have a good ratio of width to length and the BC value generally goes down.

Sure you can find exceptions with the really heavy bullets. But then your velocity drops.

Over 44 mag there is a diminishing return.

[BCgunworks]

153560
357 FR with a Texas white tail taken by Steve brown

153561
357 FR with a va white tail taken by mark Flanagan.

[44man]

Over 44 mag there is a diminishing return.
Why? as I have gone larger I found accuracy increased even when I was beat to hell. Crazy barrel rise to see smaller groups then a smaller caliber.
would you go to the .475 or .500 FR? Would you convert a BFR?
Make me a believer that all revolvers benefit.

[44man]

How many deer pictures would I need to post with 181 revolver kills? Did the FR make it possible or was it the hunter? choice of bullet.
How far was the deer shot? Do not tell me 500 yards with a .357, looks like 20 yards to me.

[BCgunworks]

Do they know you escaped the ward yet?

[apen]

You could post 181 single pictures, a single picture with all 181, or several pictures with a different number of deer in each pic. Possibilities are endless.

[44man]

You could post 181 single pictures, a single picture with all 181, or several pictures with a different number of deer in each pic. Possibilities are endless.
Take more storage then allowed. I have no pride with deer shot. Many times I took no pictures, no camera. Why brag with a deer? Would you record every chicken sent to the fast food place?
My feeling when a deer is down is OH ****. more work.

[BCgunworks]

153565

About 150 yards. 158 flat point

153566
75+ yards 158 flat point

Both customers deer. Both harvested today.

[ErnieBishop]

Sounds like the bullet performed well on Steve's deer and with the other gentleman's deer.

[44man]

153565

About 150 yards. 158 flat point


153566
75+ yards 158 flat point

Both customers deer. Both harvested today.
You will have a hard time making me believe the FR made it possible.
Even worse is the boolit used. 150 yards with a .357, 158 gr. Pure luck.

[ErnieBishop]

Yep, just pure luck....:mrgreen::happy dance:

[ErnieBishop]

This is from a friend, but these words would all be mine with the exception of having a 10" 357 magnum.
Something to consider for those who are not true believers.

But, just for fun......let's look at the science.

I did the math on my 10" 357 Mag with 180gr XTP bullets.

My muzzle velocity is right at 1,575 fps.
Hornady states on their site that the 180gr XTP functions as designed within the muzzle velocity range of 900-1,700 fps.

Using ballistic data, the 180gr XTP out of my gun has a retained velocity of 1,133 fps at 200 yards.
Hornady lists their velocity range from 900-1700 fps
So, scientifically/mathematically, the bullet is impacting within its designed velocity threshold according to Hornady.

Ergo..........scientifically......the numbers say the bullet will work.

Gotta love science.
If one has the ability, the knowledge, and a capable cartridge......it's doable.

Using a rangefinder and knowing your dope isn't that hard. Folks do that all the time. Daily even.

I take shots with both rifle and handgun that some consider irresponsible.........yet.........it works.
I'm cool with them thinking so. It doesn't affect me. I welcome the discussion.
Because, in the end. Only results count.

There will always be nay-sayers. Welcome to life.

[Ramjet-SS]

Bullet placement is the number one consideration in harvesting game......period.

[ErnieBishop]

So, so true!!!

bullet placement is the number one consideration in harvesting game......period.

[44man]

Beside the point, does the FR make a gun more accurate and make it kill faster? Will you shoot deer farther? Ask me to shoot deer past 25 yards with a .357 and I will call you a nut.

[ErnieBishop]

True Believer.........................................: veryconfu

[Ramjet-SS]

The bullet placement on the buck looks to be very good.

[44man]

Science is great but you make the .357 magic with energy needed to kill animals at long ranges.
Put figures from books out there but the .357 will always be sad no matter where you hit.
The .357 will always be a 50 yard or under caliber for deer. Making it more accurate with a FR must mean you made it hit harder. Fools will listen but hunters will never give up a .44 or larger for the pimp gun.

[BCgunworks]

I think the circus is missing a clown.

[BCgunworks]

I wonder if anyone told those deer they should be ok since they were both over 50 yards....

[ErnieBishop]

Stoptryingtoconfusemewiththefacts

[Love Life]

#357magnumlivesmatter

[ErnieBishop]

HA! That one made me laugh:Bright idea:

#357magnumlivesmatter

[BCgunworks]

#357magnumlivesmatter

Stop. You'll upset the guy that escaped from the ward.....

[Ramjet-SS]

All kidding aside I get where he is coming from.

Both are correct;

I have shot and taken over 200 deer in my life time. I agree the 357 mag is marginal and will really not shine if the bullet placement is not good. But the platform you are pushing here has some decent virtue in that it makes accurate shooting possible but the shooter still has to do thier job. The gun is not magical and the ideas you have make sense to me and in the hands of competent shooter and the increased velocity from the increased barrel length taking deer with the 357 is very plausible ...... yes even at increased distances.

I do do feel there may be better choices like a 44 and you offer that with the same potential for accuracy it would be the ultimate for sniping deer in the hands of competent shooter. In most cases guns will out shoot the shooter and it's any steps to decrease the potential wayward shots that is welcome in my mind. I am seeking out a RedHawk in 44 to send to you what the heck what's another gun in my safe.....If it lives up to the claims I will report back if it does not I will also respectively say so and why. Now I just need to move a few of my safe queens to free up funding for this endeavor.

If one was too consider the recoil alone will certainly send bullets off target good shooters can handle that recoil better than others. Now that said the 357 in the same platform as a 44 will recoil less and could add to the potential for increased accuracy from a given shooter. Give a guy a 22 then give them the same gun in 475 Linebaugh and I can gaurentee the groups will open up.

Really both of you are correct and both of you have solid argument with all things considered. But the the discussion has gone beyond a disagreement to childish comments and ridiculous back and forth bantering.

By by the way nice shot on that buck I will bet the XTP opened up just fine but when you punch them through the heart.........even if it did not that is mute.

[ErnieBishop]

Never denied the 44's or 45's or 475's capabilities.
Just standing up for those who can make good shots at distance from field positions with say a 357 Mag.

44Man doesn't like the 357 Mag period-He has admitted that prejudice on this forum.

He also doesn't seem to like modified Ruger's (FR's) or the capabilities of those that use them from the long tenor of his posts.

Truth be known the 357 Mag is not my first pick for an all around big game revolver cartridge....Shock!
With that being said, it is competent within it's limits which are clearly beyond some people's perspective.

The irony of this long thread, is that in all of 44man's desire to negate the FR concept, his many posts have simply allowed the thread to continue and the time to answer many questions those observing the thread might have had.

Chris may need to give an official "Thank You!" to 44Man for carrying the banner for the FR and its abilities in terms of accuracy, even at distance, and now of course on deer sized game.
It is obvious that this was not his desire, none the less it is the result.

I have enjoyed the sense of humor of many in this thread. I would enjoy shooting with you guys!

[Ramjet-SS]

Yea 44,an is rather opinionated but we all are to a certain extent.

I am am glad the length has inspired me to think this out and hopefully one day will own a FR......in 44 :) ;)

[tazman]

A question for the hunters who made those fine shots on the deer. Did you recover any of the bullets or did they pass through?

[BCgunworks]

As far as I know. Everything was a pass thru.

Actually had 2 more deer dropped today by Franken Ruger hunters at about 100 yards.

[tazman]

I would love to see a picture of a recovered bullet if somebody manages to save one from one of the long shots. It would go a long way towards proving the bullet performance is as advertised.

[BCgunworks]

Dead critter pictures work for me.
Same hunter on the same Texas trip dropped 4 hogs over 100 yards

[tazman]

Dead critters show the gun is accurate and the placement was good. Also that the hunter is a better shot than I am.
I would like to know if the manufacturers notions of how the bullets perform are actually true.

[BCgunworks]

I think the odds of recovering a bullet are slim. Unless you take a steep quartering shot or stretch the range a lot more.

[BCgunworks]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/18/6efd44e9c820e03b1c988ccbe6893cae.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/18/9055d3482e701cdf445555901fec2791.jpg

I think one important thing to add is this:

These two deer were taken by a first time handgun hunter.

One at about 75 yards and one at about 100

He picked up his gun less than a week ago. His handgun marksmen ship wasnt there. Within a box of rounds we had him consistently hitting targets from field positions. And it worked out in the field.

No special hand loads. Just factory 158 flat point jacketed PMC ammo.
Burris posi-lock 2-7 handgun scope.

Would it work out this way for everyone. No. Has the system shown actual proof from various customers results that it is easier to shoot. Yes.

Taking the learning curve out of supporting a handgun in the field definitely helps.

[44man]

I am with you on this. The .357 is a hard caliber to make accurate so if the FR can do it, GREAT. I only had one .357 that really worked, old 27 with an 8-3/8" ribbed barrel with a Phantom scope. Did 1" at 100 yards from prone all day. I never met another.
Now a pass through on deer, I have 181 revolver kills and the only bullets I recovered were 240 gr XTP's. Never found a cast even digging dirt where the boolit hit.
There is a requirement for long range deer, maintain energy. I see it with deer shot with my .44 out to 75 yards or so that go down faster then those hit at 100 or more. Loss of energy is the reason but I still find them.
I would always suspect a .357 past 50 yards. Boolit weight does not support energy. I really, really do not like it for deer. I have a few friends that use it because they fear a .44 and they all lose deer.
If BC makes it more accurate so you can place the shot, I will stand with him. I still do not like the .357.
I found funny stuff when hunting, like the 45-70 BFR at 1630 fps that poked a hole through both lungs and lost me two deer and those recovered went over 200 yards. Then the .475 that drops every deer in their tracks to the .500 JRH that had deer run 100-120 yards with no blood trails until I changed the boolit. The old saw of a bigger hole is better does not work.
To kill deer takes experience and failures along the line.
Whatever boolit you use, you need to fix any problems. If you hit the spine on one deer and claim it is best, I want to see all other hits. I admit a loss and am not proud of it, I work harder.
I see posts that a guy wants to use a .38 S&W or a .32 for deer. You should be banned from the field.
Then guys shoot pigs with .22 CB caps! You can kill deer with a .22 between the eyes but not in the body. I have found more .22 bullets healed in deer then I can count--Yes PA. The worst was here in WV.153638 Fully expanded .22 in the neck. Turning green. Some fool will come in to say he killed a deer with a .25 auto.

[Ramjet-SS]

44 Man that was good post in giving a good explination on how you feel about the 357 what if one where to use the well proven 180 grain Nosler Partition I have used that from a 357 but the range was close performance was outstanding no recovery though. It was a pass through as one would expect from a 357 at that distance and a Partition.

I like the the reduced recoil idea of the 357 but most likely would opt for the 180 grain Nosler or a Hawk with the .025" jacket.

I really am am looking hard for coversion gun but am frugal so I want a deal not always possible in a short term.

[apen]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-gPBKt3fFCw

Here is an antelope shot with a .357 at 130 yards..bullet went clean through. This is with a Taurus with a 6" barrel...no hyper velocity there.

[44man]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-gPBKt3fFCw

Here is an antelope shot with a .357 at 130 yards..bullet went clean through. This is with a Taurus with a 6" barrel...no hyper velocity there.
Velocity or ME is hype. It is only bullet/boolit performance before exit. I never load for velocity, only accuracy but I can be wrong for hunting so a boolit needs altered. There is a difference between too fast or too slow.

[ole 5 hole group]

Don't have anything to add, but back in the 1950's & early 60's quite a few deer were taken with the 38 Special using 158 grain cast handloads. Ranges were short but when that's all you have, it will work. The 357 was said to be too powerful but in reality, we just couldn't afford to purchase one.;)

Deer just aren't that hard to kill - they sometimes are hard to find and I do believe a bigger hole is better than a small one when discussing bullet diameter.;) Congratulations to those harvesting deer with any handgun.

[44man]

It is always bullet/boolit performance and not to say a .357 does not work. But it is like the .41 where all loads were for police and people shooting until hunters got hold of it. Hunters learned what is needed.
Deer are NOT easy to kill or find. Why does that persist? It makes me sad you follow that. I shot 2 deer well after archery season and found these inside.153742Not the last as I gave a deer away with another in the chest. The man got cut. Deer were healthy and running like nothing wrong. More deer are lost here with magnum rifles then you can shake a stick at.
Deer are easy to kill is nothing but lack of experience. You pull the trigger, you are responsible. Go look 10 yards and give up to cripple another. Once you say they are easy, stay out of my hunting area. To even count lost deer I have found is crazy. Don't come here. If you think I would put you on stand with a .38. How about I tell you to hit the road?

[ErnieBishop]

Where does this come from? If anything, the FR makes it easier for field hunting accuracy.
Deer are not hard to kill, when the hunter has the capability to put the arrow or bullet in the proper place under stress.
The big issue is not the tool, but rather the "TOOL" using it! Shot placement is huge!!!
Some weapons are easier to use than others in the field. Being wise enough to use good field rests is also very helpful.
One pull, one kill @ 29 yards, and he went down in 60 yards. Public land, no guide with a bow almost 20+ years old. I practiced out to 70 yards a lot before I went afield.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/IMG_0045_zpsyh0uv1xj.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/IMG_0045_zpsyh0uv1xj.jpg.html)
An old Pearson Flame
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/IMG_6762_zps62dc5fa1.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/IMG_6762_zps62dc5fa1.jpg.html)

[BCgunworks]

It's like one minute he makes sense. Then the next he goes on some wild tangent.

If you shoot an animal outside of the vitals with a 454.....or a 357....the results will suck either way.

[BCgunworks]

And I think he still doesn't realize it's made in more calibers than 357.

[apen]

Maybe a little slack is in order even though he hasn't given you any:smile:.
I think I deciphered what he was saying. I don't THINK he was knocking you THIS time.

[ErnieBishop]

I get the rambling part...
As much as anything, I am clarifying things for others.

Maybe a little slack is in order even though he hasn't given you any:smile:.
I think I deciphered what he was saying. I don't THINK he was knocking you THIS time.

[44man]

WHAT HAVE I SAID? Boolit performance above all else. but placement is next. The little sad .38 can kill---OK. so can a pellet gun. But put arrows in the chest and lose deer but they survive. Don't give me deer are easy to kill. Might be the toughest suckers in the woods. I hunt shrooms in the spring and 10 to 20 dead deer is nothing to find. They are miles from where we can shoot. Liberals on this side do not allow hunting.
Why don't you use a .38 S&W?
Every single thing I have seen posted with the FR has been the .357, not a single .475 or .500. Get out of the closet.
Then to show a bow kill is telling me the FR is better! Where does that come from. I have more then 225 bow kills and would not want a .357 for any. How did a bow kill come in here? next will be a .460 Weatherby.
Nice Elk but hey man, you shot it with a bow. You did Not use a .357 FR. The broad head is more deadly so don't tell me a FR in .357 would have done it.
Can I put in all my 12 GA slug kills or hundreds of ML deer here to show a FR is better?
Get bow kills out of here and also rifle kills. It is revolvers. I have 181 revolver kills that I know of. Maybe more. I refuse to count.
if BC can make me better I will listen but don't blow smoke with bow kills.

[BCgunworks]

You really like to peck away at a keyboard don't you?
If you would go back through this thread. Read between you negative comments over the past year and you will see a 44...a 41 mag...and the 357.

And by the way....a deer is easy to kill...a hog is a different story.

And no I can't make you any better. Your head is buried in the sand.

[ErnieBishop]

He's Back.....:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
Who brought up archery??? wasn't me-Ha!
A FR didn't exist back then, but it would have killed him dead.
Why would one need a 475 or 500 to kill deer with?

[BCgunworks]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/19/7dec1afd2ecef0b38e902217920a5446.jpg

357

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/19/e6a0efb3e0d228465390ac9d08ade0c8.jpg

41

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/19/b24ad2b6ed9b90a839bdbdc6361fcdd1.jpg

44

[BCgunworks]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/19/236e7fe52f788b723ae74496d083bb2c.jpg

I like a 44 for groundhogs! Now that's a tough critter.

[ErnieBishop]

Hmm...Maybe Chris builds guns that his customers actually want, NOT what people on the internet THINK they should be ordering.

[44man]

Simple, show a bow kill for a post on the FR.
The elk was a bow kill. don't stick that here. Nothing to do with a revolver.
I don't care if it is 50 years, make my revolvers shoot better and do not toss bow or rifle kills in here. Where in the hell does a bow killed elk fit here?. I do not degrade the man, he did it the hard way but don't stick the FR where it was not used.
Damned it the hell, show me. i don't want a bow kill to tell me a FR is better.

[BCgunworks]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/19/857ea8d58145d17df6d6d9fb5daa9958.jpg

Someone missed their meds!

[BCgunworks]

Obama was the #1 gun salesman for the entire industry for his term.

44man has matched him in the Franken Ruger department.

[GSaltzman]

This is obviously a no win situation.

[BCgunworks]

This is obviously a no win situation.

there is always that one....been beating his chest for over a year

[Ramjet-SS]

44man has tenacity that's for sure.......

Question; At what point (length) does the barrel reach a point of deminishing returns (in terms of velocity) with the 357 magnum?

I have taken several elk witha 68" longbow and laminated birch arrows. But not at 200 yards.....:bigsmyl2:

[44man]

Yeah, a bow kill has so much to do with a FR kill. I don't have meds to make me that stupid. I take no meds at all. I don't need any to see stupid. you take elk with ANY bow and you are good but do not tell me a FR was used. the .357 is at best a 50 yard deer gun. Now I should shoot 200 to 500 yards with the ***. Get real! I don't care if you hit ants, don't tell me I can kill deer that far. 100 yards with a .44 is pushing it. But the FR has more energy, the dogs are not deer. Darn, you need to shoot elk at 200 or more.

[dk17hmr]

I'm not a revolver shooter, I have several but don't do anything serious with them....I do however shoot a little bit of long range rifle. Around page 20 I thought this thread was getting pretty funny.

It has been several years since I first read about Ernie and what he was doing with handguns.....I think it's fair to say he has a pretty good idea of what he is doing with a handgun at long range.

[M-Tecs]

I have only killed about a 180 deer total with archery, BP rifle, revolvers, Contender pistols and various rifles. I lost my first bow hit deer at 12 years old (1972) and one with a rifle about twenty years ago. Everyone that had proper shot placement and bullet performance died very quickly. Out of the approximately 180 deer less than a dozen have been hard recoveries. A couple were bad shots on my part and maybe a 9 or 10 improper bullet performance made things interesting.

On the bullet performance in each case lack of expansion was the problem. I have only killed two deer with 357 revolver and three with a 357 Herrett Contender. I used jacketed hollow points in both of the.357's and they killed like the hammer of Tor. I had one deer with a 270 rifle that took three double lung hits and it still required a neck shot to finish it after a ¾ mile track. It didn’t appear that any of the bullets expanded. They were designed for larger game and deep penetration but they were given to me so I tried them. Same for the .338 250 grains that were given to me. When I used that rifle with 210 grain Nosler Partitions I never had a deer take a step after being hit. The couple hit with the 250 grain bullets went a long way.

Same for my Contender 44 Mag. This was back in the 70’s before I knew better. I was shooting cast and they were way to hard. I almost lost a couple with it.

IMHO anyone having a hard time recovering or losing deer is either placing the shot wrong or using the wrong bullets.

[BCgunworks]

44man has tenacity that's for sure.......

Question; At what point (length) does the barrel reach a point of deminishing returns (in terms of velocity) with the 357 magnum?

I have taken several elk witha 68" longbow and laminated birch arrows. But not at 200 yards.....:bigsmyl2:

10" gives the best overall performance for the 357 and 44.

By overall I mean gun handling mixed with velocity gain.

[BCgunworks]

I'm not a revolver shooter, I have several but don't do anything serious with them....I do however shoot a little bit of long range rifle. Around page 20 I thought this thread was getting pretty funny.

It has been several years since I first read about Ernie and what he was doing with handguns.....I think it's fair to say he has a pretty good idea of what he is doing with a handgun at long range.

All of 44man crying and stomping his feet is funny as heck.

He has turned into the best salesman of the FR to date. Reminds me of Obama in reference to the gun market.

I like the new statement. "It's a 50 yard gun". And we're posting customer pics of deer and pigs from 100-150

[dubber123]

Do you feel the GP-100's you have based your .357 models off are capable of handling more pressure than the "new" somewhat lowered SAAMI standard? I ask as I have a 9.5" F/A revolver in .357, and it becomes a whole different caliber when you run the pressures up. The F/A is a 65,000 Psi capable gun, I wouldn't expect that from a GP. but an extra 10,000 Psi would really show with the longer barrels you use.

[BCgunworks]

Do you feel the GP-100's you have based your .357 models off are capable of handling more pressure than the "new" somewhat lowered SAAMI standard? I ask as I have a 9.5" F/A revolver in .357, and it becomes a whole different caliber when you run the pressures up. The F/A is a 65,000 Psi capable gun, I wouldn't expect that from a GP. but an extra 10,000 Psi would really show with the longer barrels you use.

I run mine pretty warm

[ole 5 hole group]

Damn, I had that feeling that I should have stayed out of this thread!;-) No use firing back, as I'm not a triple figure guy in big game animals - now once we start talking about prairie dogs, crows, ducks, pheasants, maybe ruffed grouse, blackbirds, stripped gophers etc I might have standing with numbers.;-) I'm going back to stealth mode.

Those FR revolvers just plain look like shooters and my hat's off to ya Chris for its development and starting up a business dedicated to shooters. Semper Fi.

[BCgunworks]

Damn, I had that feeling that I should have stayed out of this thread!;-) No use firing back, as I'm not a triple figure guy in big game animals - now once we start talking about prairie dogs, crows, ducks, pheasants, maybe ruffed grouse, blackbirds, stripped gophers etc I might have standing with numbers.;-) I'm going back to stealth mode.

Those FR revolvers just plain look like shooters and my hat's off to ya Chris for its development and starting up a business dedicated to shooters. Semper Fi.

thanks....99% of my work is handguns....and even the little carry guns have a focus on accuracy.

[BCgunworks]

Here is a slightly more traditional gun....one of your members owns this thing.

the proven theories from the FR were applied to this build......notice no shroud....all the shroud is for is a place to rest the gun without changing point of impact.

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff460/bcgunworks/image_zpsdgvculnx.jpeg (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/bcgunworks/media/image_zpsdgvculnx.jpeg.html)

[44man]

It is still the bullet/boolit. The .357 is still sad. i don't care how accurate. Good chuck caliber but you will not see me in the deer woods with it. Anyone that thinks it is a 200 yard caliber for deer eats Wheaties. I do forget those that can hit the brain every shot.
Hunter responses show what, 6 month experiences at best. The FR can make a 50 yard gun into a 300 yard deer killer. Does anyone know what a deer looks like at 200 yards over revolver sights?
Does a FR extend my distance? The caliber is not improved.
Last estimate for revolver kills is 181, Over 250 bow kills, over 200 ML kills and many with rifles, crossbow and slugs. I can't count them. But I know what works.
The FR would not make the guns better even with more accuracy since distance to kill is not extended until you get to mag rifles.
Think the Franken will improve a BFR? How about a Ruger SBH Hunter? SRH,

[ole 5 hole group]

Being a good machinist and having good equipment one can come up with some great innovative items. Most never heard of Nate Boop but that guy came up with the idea of the Boop tube and some of us think that's were the Browning Boss came from. Barrel harmonics can be adjusted and fined tuned several ways but whoever finds an easy and reliable "tuner" will be a modern day billionaire, I have no doubt.

Milling 1911 slides for micro-red dots should be an up and coming business. I had mine done several years ago and it's probably the best mod to come along for the 1911 since sliced bread. Back to stealth mode.

[BCgunworks]

It is still the bullet/boolit. The .357 is still sad. i don't care how accurate. Good chuck caliber but you will not see me in the deer woods with it. Anyone that thinks it is a 200 yard caliber for deer eats Wheaties. I do forget those that can hit the brain every shot.
Hunter responses show what, 6 month experiences at best. The FR can make a 50 yard gun into a 300 yard deer killer. Does anyone know what a deer looks like at 200 yards over revolver sights?
Does a FR extend my distance? The caliber is not improved.
Last estimate for revolver kills is 181, Over 250 bow kills, over 200 ML kills and many with rifles, crossbow and slugs. I can't count them. But I know what works.
The FR would not make the guns better even with more accuracy since distance to kill is not extended until you get to mag rifles.
Think the Franken will improve a BFR? How about a Ruger SBH Hunter? SRH,

You still miss half the thread.

Did you not see the other calibers.

And by the way. A 357 hole thru the vitals with a good quality projectile will kill just fine. Many hogs, deer, bear and so forth have fallen to the 357 since it was devised. Look back at the history of the round.

If a shot is placed well. It is placed well. The rest is minor.

Your experience IS very limited. And you are very closed minded.

Well over a year at least you have admitted it's accurate. Kinda hard to argue that anymore.

And after the rifle vs revolver thread it's kinda hard to argue that your full of poop! Hahahaha.

BFR (big freaking Ruger) :)

[44man]

I sight from bags and hunt with arms on knees or off hand most times. i have no change in POI at all. Gun shown has no shroud. Will not shoot better from the thicker spot on the barrel then with a rest near the muzzle. That is NOT a free float. Just a try to match a SRH.
Every S&W 29 or SRH I ever shot would do 1/2" or under at 50 yards. Only problem was the S&W grips. Change POI with how the gun was held.

[BCgunworks]

Being a good machinist and having good equipment one can come up with some great innovative items. Most never heard of Nate Boop but that guy came up with the idea of the Boop tube and some of us think that's were the Browning Boss came from. Barrel harmonics can be adjusted and fined tuned several ways but whoever finds an easy and reliable "tuner" will be a modern day billionaire, I have no doubt.

Milling 1911 slides for micro-red dots should be an up and coming business. I had mine done several years ago and it's probably the best mod to come along for the 1911 since sliced bread. Back to stealth mode.

I do that. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/20/27f31717992a0c82ea49b9a9e2691e81.jpg

[BCgunworks]

I sight from bags and hunt with arms on knees or off hand most times. i have no change in POI at all. Gun shown has no shroud. Will not shoot better from the thicker spot on the barrel then with a rest near the muzzle. That is NOT a free float. Just a try to match a SRH.
Every S&W 29 or SRH I ever shot would do 1/2" or under at 50 yards. Only problem was the S&W grips. Change POI with how the gun was held.

That's the best part about this.

You still don't grasp the tech that's wrapped up in this.

That above smith with the FR principles is smoking accurate.

If you look closely and study what's going on in that pic you may grasp some of the tech.

[ErnieBishop]

Good thoughts there ole 5 hole group.

Someone continues to not pay attention or ignore what has been said before.
Chris does not do FR's with single actions because of the design of the gun.
He does not do it on the SRH because of the way it is made.
When your opinions are in opposition to the real world, well...I guess all of those deer are not really dead, since it was over 50 yards or over 100 yards.
Just because you despise something (357 Mag), doesn't make it any more or any less capable.

[ole 5 hole group]

I do that. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/20/27f31717992a0c82ea49b9a9e2691e81.jpg

I know, I looked at your site - just wish I knew about your company when you started up, as that's about the time I sent my Baer off to get the slide milled and then I had everything treated with Melonite - I just prefer to have my handguns either ion-bonded or melonite treated.

[BCgunworks]

I know, I looked at your site - just wish I knew about your company when you started up, as that's about the time I sent my Baer off to get the slide milled and then I had everything treated with Melonite - I just prefer to have my handguns either ion-bonded or melonite treated.

I have moved away from those coatings. Due to the fact machining is more difficult if not impossible after its done.

The gun is pretty much done as far as modifications go after those coatings.

[ErnieBishop]

ole 5 hole group,
I like melonite or nitriding myself. Only have one semi-auto nitrided - 1911, and I like it.
With bolt actions, both for rifle and XP-100's, I have some that the whole barreled action is nitrided.
I am having more of my bolts nitrided if nothing else.
Chris has done 1911 work for me, and work on a clone Charger as well - very pleased.
And of course, the FR's[smilie=w:

[44man]

You still miss half the thread.

Did you not see the other calibers.

And by the way. A 357 hole thru the vitals with a good quality projectile will kill just fine. Many hogs, deer, bear and so forth have fallen to the 357 since it was devised. Look back at the history of the round.

If a shot is placed well. It is placed well. The rest is minor.

Your experience IS very limited. And you are very closed minded.

Well over a year at least you have admitted it's accurate. Kinda hard to argue that anymore.

And after the rifle vs revolver thread it's kinda hard to argue that your full of poop! Hahahaha.

BFR (big freaking Ruger) :)
Never said bad about your work. You can't extend a *** caliber beyond where it is effective. I don't care if you hit dimes at 500 yards. Do you hunt from a BR? OK, you have a .41, still bottom line. Hunting just starts with the .44. Even it starts to lose at 100 yards or over. I prefer 25 yards or less and to think I would shoot at a deer at 200 is foolish, no matter the caliber.
I just made a drop test at 200 with my .500 JRH using a 50 yard setting. Sad 6" group but what would a scope do since my red dot covered the paper plate. Could I get to 1"? Maybe. Would a Franken BFR do better?153784Most revolver shooters would dance over 6" at 25 yards.
No, just a hole through the vitals does not make meat. But you also said a quality projectile. What in the world have I been saying? We are on the same page after all.

[BCgunworks]

Quality projectile like a modern HPor flat point jacketed. Does just fine.

I wouldn't build a FR on a big freaking ruger

[44man]

They are nasty. That JRh will make you blink. The .475 has more torque, I would not want to shoot a rifle with either. Yet with all the recoil, they do shoot super.
My first deer I shot this season had the elevation cap touch my glasses. What has happened to me?

[BCgunworks]

They are nasty. That JRh will make you blink. The .475 has more torque, I would not want to shoot a rifle with either. Yet with all the recoil, they do shoot super.
My first deer I shot this season had the elevation cap touch my glasses. What has happened to me?

I'm starting to think the scope hit you. :)

[44man]

I'm starting to think the scope hit you. :)
Yep, sure did but the deer was flat out dead.
Our season opens Monday. Last one I got in doe season, I ate half a liver in two days. Carol got mad because I didn't save her any. I gave the other half away and they froze it. Best if fresh. Onions and bacon grease.

[ErnieBishop]

You can't extend a *** caliber beyond where it is effective.
Hunting just starts with the .44. Even it starts to lose at 100 yards or over.
I prefer 25 yards or less and to think I would shoot at a deer at 200 is foolish, no matter the caliber.
I just made a drop test at 200 with my .500 JRH using a 50 yard setting. Sad 6" group but what would a scope do since my red dot covered the paper plate. Could I get to 1"? Maybe.
Would a Franken BFR do better?
Most revolver shooters would dance over 6" at 25 yards.

Seems like "most" revolver shooters that have the FR's would be disgusted with 6" group at 25, 50, 75, even 100 yards, and yes some can shoot sub 6" groups at 200 regularly.
Why? They are easier to shoot accurately from any field position, at least in my opinion

Deer won't die quickly from a well placed shot with the 357 Mag and good bullets at or past 100 yards=OPINION, not based on facts. Field results like dead deer and pigs are not opinion or internet based.

Hunting starts with the 44=OPINION, not based on facts.

Yes, it would be foolish for you to shoot a deer at 200 yards.
Just because it would be foolish for yourself, doesn't mean it would be for others.
You are not the standard, and neither am I.
Each person gets to determine that.

Wise hunters always choose the proper bullet for the task.

Quit limiting others to what works just because of your own flawed preconceived ideologies.

[BCgunworks]

I would throw the gun in the trash if I got 6" groups at 200 yards

[dubber123]

I would throw the gun in the trash if I got 6" groups at 200 yards

I know whose house I am going dumpster diving at :)