simple Hi-Tek coating

[Tazza]

Mate, that is the job of a wife :) You can always invite her into the shop to help you out and make the job go faster, mine runs in the other direction when i offer this......

When i cook mine, i can do a good 15+kg per batch, i have multiple trays to use though. There is a fair bit of space in an old 600mm wide kitchen oven. I got mine from the in-laws when the replaced their free standing one as the hot plates were toast.

[HI-TEK]

Mate, that is the job of a wife :) You can always invite her into the shop to help you out and make the job go faster, mine runs in the other direction when i offer this...... You are lucky she does not return with a baseball bat lol lol

When I cook mine, I can do a good 15+kg per batch, I have multiple trays to use though. There is a fair bit of space in an old 600mm wide kitchen oven. I got mine from the in-laws when the replaced their free standing one as the hot plates were toast.

Most household ovens free standing or wall types are OK, and are freely available from retailers who sell new ones and take away old ones. Also, on Council clean up, you can find them on side of the road, free to take away. If they have blown elements, these are cheap to replace from Electrical wholesalers or Stove repairers. Easy way to get a reasonable sized oven very cheap.

[Tazza]

I second that, over here we have gumtree, the American version of Craig's List. People just want them gone, so you can get lucky and get a freebee.

Some places that sell appliances take old ones back as a service, you can possibly pick one up here for free or very cheap.

[dansedgli]

Thanks guys, it's gas ok if it's got a fan?

Im in Melbourne. Gumtree is good sometimes.

[HI-TEK]

Thanks guys, it's gas ok if it's got a fan?

Im in Melbourne. Gumtree is good sometimes.

I suppose Gas fired ovens should work. However, I would only put in a load after oven is first at correct bake temperature. That way, any moisture formed with warming oven is at same temperature as oven heated air.
Gas Fired ovens also have a chimney exhaust which would help with ducting oven fumes outside. Do not use this sort of oven in enclosed areas. Exhaust all gaseous emissions to outside work area. Burning gas uses up Oxygen and produces CO2 and CO, and is not good being confined in a closed work area, and gasses cannot be detected.

[Ausglock]

Thanks guys, it's gas ok if it's got a fan?

Im in Melbourne. Gumtree is good sometimes.

Dan. I'll swap you an oven that will do 8kg in 8 minutes for your STI prize...:bigsmyl2:

[dansedgli]

Dan. I'll swap you an oven that will do 8kg in 8 minutes for your STI prize...:bigsmyl2:

lol. Sounds like a good deal but I'll have to pass. :P

Funny enough I tried to get them to swap it for a STI tactical with me paying the difference but they wouldn't do it. I won't dare complain though.

Thanks for the tips on the Ovens. Sounds like electric might be easier to deal with.

[Ausglock]

lol. Sounds like a good deal but I'll have to pass. :P

Funny enough I tried to get them to swap it for a STI tactical with me paying the difference but they wouldn't do it. I won't dare complain though.

Thanks for the tips on the Ovens. Sounds like electric might be easier to deal with.

Fair enough. I just picked up an STI Tactical 5.0 9mm second hand, sweet shooter. The full length dust cover adds weight to the front perfectly for sight recovery.

[Tazza]

I have my custom 2011 race gun gathering dust in my safe for the last 2 years, been trying to get hold of a replacement barrel for it. Good note, try not to push two projectiles down the barrel at once *sigh*

I do love the STI range, I got my hands on a used 2011 executive in .38 super, it shoots great.

Do you know where to get hold of a schuemann hybricomp barrel from Trevor? :) Easily bought in America, here... not so much.

[Ausglock]

Tazza.
Mate give Victor a call at Victor Precision in Capalaba.
He has Pulver, KKM, STI barrels. His comp designs are the best there are.
I'm getting a KKM with a VP comp for the STI Tac 5 for shooting Steel Challenge with a C-more RTS2.
Victor rebuilt my TruBor and it is a sweet shooter.

[Tazza]

Victor is the one that built it for me in the first place :) it shot awesome up to the point i killed it. He can't get his paws on Schuemann barrels anymore, they can't export and the guy he used to get them off doesn't do 'em anymore either.

Good to hear he is making comps too, mine was an off the shelf titanium one, he was talking about making them as they were hard to get.

His shop is walking distance from my house actually, very handy.

[HI-TEK]

I'm working on the expander... heavy .358 cast boolit & 9mm is interesting.

I'm still getting swaged a little deep down there in the case when seating the 166 grainer.

218614

I like the Hi-Tek design, how did you do it?

[HI-TEK]

Commercial product in Italy. They use the Black K-15 and also Kryptonite Green.
218650

[HI-TEK]

Those are linotype letters from my bucket, on top of a pistol case. I used an extra flashlight for the shadow. :)

There must be a nail or something else iron material in the bucket because there is some rust all over the letters.


Very clever

[HI-TEK]

Thanks- the rust got my attention and gave me the idea. I can mail you a better resolution image in case you like to use it.

I like it a lot. Very modern style. I don't know where or how I could use it and thank you for the offer. If you post me a photo it will be cherished.

Just a thought, have you received your coatings? You posted that you were expecting arrival.

[HI-TEK]

A local guy coated Air Pellets. They worked great with a single coat. I believe that in Europe there is a large move towards high pressure air guns that simply eliminate need for gun powder, primers, shells reloading gear, etc.. etc.... and they are very interested in coated air pellets as they are used for hunting game.
Simple air rifle pellets picture, single coat
218652


Air pellets over cooked (below)
218653

[HI-TEK]

Look what the dog dragged in.

218654

Let the good times roll!

FINALLY....
GREAT NEWS it is like Christmas, what is in the bag????

[glockfan]

Look what the dog dragged in.

218654

Let the good times roll!

what colors did you got? best coating ever as far as i'm concerned.

[slide]

Looks good! Great job.

[Ausglock]

Looks more like Kryptonite Green than Zombie Green.

[Spaceball]

For the guys in Australia where is a good source of mesh for trays?
I was thinking something a bit more heavy duty then mouse wire. Like perforated aluminum / steel.

[Ausglock]

https://i.imgur.com/IvIa8wB.jpg
Stainless steel perforated plate. 4mm holes. 2mm thick. 280 x280mm with a 10mm side double bend.
not cheap. But I have 16 of these for baking.
Also have 16 of them, but in Mild steel for coating/ drying

[dikman]

Petander, I can't see your photos? I didn't think they looked like ZG, bit too dark and a slightly "richer" green. Also, why resize after first coat? I find it works fine sizing after second coat (and it saves time). Making and coating boolits can be strangely addictive.........

[dansedgli]

Ive been using these from bunnings for drying.

I have cut one up and folded it over to fit into my oven. I've got to transfer bullets which is a bit of a pain.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/flexi-storage-85mm-white-1-runner-mesh-basket_p2590163

https://2ecffd01e1ab3e9383f0-07db7b9624bbdf022e3b5395236d5cf8.ssl.cf4.rackcdn.c om/Product-1600x1600/eca5f34c-c644-4815-b13e-137e6db1c8f8.jpg

[Tazza]

Do you need to dry on mesh? The process i use for different stuff, i lay out on a sheet of laminated MDF to dry. I then collect and put on baking trays, all wearing gloves to prevent getting oil on the projectiles. It works very well for me but does take longer to dry.

[lazs]

I have a bunch of silicone baking mats that I used when powder coating and don't really need for HT coat.. I lay em out in a line and put fresh coated bullets on each one which helps keep track of what is going on and helps em dry. I use a regular stainless steel mesh screen with turned up edges for baking.

lazs

[Grmps]

I got these at a thrift store (2-3$ ea) , cut the shelves off the frame. bend it lengthwise to fit my oven and rivit aluminum angle on both ends.
1 hour, $10 and I have 10 bake trays
https://i.imgur.com/ZFXEADU.png

https://i.imgur.com/ckk4QP3.png

can do 8 # @ a time

[dansedgli]

oooh I have those at work. :P

Nice idea!

[dansedgli]

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12-Tier-B-Mesh-Stackable-Letter-Tray-Desk-Office-File-Document-Organiser-Holder/263220993104?hash=item3d49319c50:g:hngAAOSw8YZZ1dx 3

$4 each. I reckon they'd fit in a small oven.

[lazs]

Those look like they would work great! I had to shop around on Amazon to find good stainless screen the right size and then form it and it was pretty expensive. I probly spent that much on just the one tray! Don't know if I downloaded the image right but these are some hollow base wad cutters that I HT coated in kryptonite after boiling off the lube. when loaded upside down for an experiment they shot through a pile of magazines and actually expanded reliably and I think the HT held em together! probly 900 fps.

218771

[perminator]

I got my stuff in and my 1st batch finished took 3 coats using the recommendations of 300 125gn boolits and a coating of 4ml followed by two coats of 6ml should I have used maybe a little more on the 2nd coat to avoid the 3rd? Also I did this in my non convection full size stove seemed to turn out quite wellhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/1abe71da5ebee5eb19a1e3c5c2de875d.jpg

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[perminator]

I'm baking them right at 400 for 8 mins and all wipe and smash tests have gone well

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Grmps]

Kinda hits you square in the head when you do it according to the directions and everything falls into place. :)
Congratulations, now your hooked

[perminator]

Kinda hits you square in the head when you do it according to the directions and everything falls into place. :)
Congratulations, now your hookedNo more spraying powder coating on boolits for me!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[razorfish]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/1abe71da5ebee5eb19a1e3c5c2de875d.jpg


Nicely done. What color is this green?

[perminator]

Nicely done. What color is this green?Kryptonite green

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[HI-TEK]

Air guns are here. No permits,bureaucracy etc needed. Not yet.

I shoot 300 meters regularly, sometimes Air Guys leave pellets there,just for others to see. They shoot 45 cal air guns at 300 meters with good success.

Can you post a picture of the pellets used with these air guns? What sort of alloy is used?
I cant imagine just how much pressure is needed to shoot 300 metres with air.
I wonder how these pellets would go with the coating?
I was advised, that this high pressure air guns are now becoming very popular in an ever increasing US groups.

Here, our government has outlawed air guns if you have no licence. Getting a licence is very problematic due to the anti gun lobby .

[HI-TEK]

Perminator,looking good.

My first boolits were indeed undercooked. And I went to the other end too,flaking when smashed.

I decided to see how overcooked shoot.

I fired a box of overcooked, slightly flaking water dropped boolits at 50 meters,very good accuracy but also some leading as expected. Easy to wipe though.



218792


So I'm still working on time/temp. A thin line between wiping and flaking it seems.

I suspect, that your first coat was not dried adequately.
Once coating and alloy gets to about 180C it starts to cross link and bond. However, traces of moisture will affect bonding, and that is why normally it flakes when doing smash test.
Over baking will not harm coating and bonding. Only the colour suffers.
Attached is over cooked coating. They work just fine.
218811

[HI-TEK]

.

Could be. It also took me a while to really get the wipe test,I let some questionable boolits pass without eyeglasses.

Is there such a thing as Too Hot Drying Temp?
In cold damp areas, I suggest that first coat is dried at about 40-50C for about 1/2 hour. To check if the first coat is totally dry, simply bake a few first. Cool and do tests. If all is OK, bake the rest.

My boolits get to 60°C on top of the oven in half an hour if I let them to.

Another variable is my boolit temp when coating. Coating mix will chill alloy and temperatures can drop 5 degrees C.
I always suggest, that alloy is at least 5-10 degrees warmer than room temperatures, so any chilling by drying solvent leaves alloy at higher temperatures that ambient temperatures. That way, this residual warmth helps dry coating much quicker and moisture is not attracted to the alloy because alloy is warmer then room temperatures

But I'm getting good first coats now. Still figuring out all the routines.

If your alloy on top of oven gets to 60C for short time, should not be a problem.
Main thing to keep in mind, first coat must be bonded well. If not, once exposed to heat, it is a re-melt job. Trying to again re-coat will not fix first coat adhesion problems.

[lazs]

I also agree that 'overcooking' does not cause flaking. I made the mistake of not drying enough sometimes and it does indeed cause flaking.. worse on first coat than on second? I think that is the case. seems if I get a good first coat the rest is just for looks... three coats won't help a bad first coat in my opinion...

I am baking a tad longer than directed cause my oven is small and I open it a lot for batches... I have been going 12 minutes? something past ten on the timer but not 15... seems to work fine. My bullets will rarely be the exact same color if I do 4 or five batches... that does not bother me in the least. Mixing krptonite and copper and black makes for a nice root beer brown that is more consistent in color... maybe cause it is darker?

lazs

[Ausglock]

A lot of 9mm users here like their bullets sized to .3575" dia.
They say that .356 leads, but .3575 does not.
I use .3565" dia in the STI Tac 5 and the barrel is super shiny after 1 patch of hoppes.
Others have stated that the powder used in the load also has caused leading.
I mainly use ADI powder (Aussie made) it is re-labled as Hodgdon powder in the US.
Never had problems with Win 231, WSF, WST or Win540.
Alliant Power pistol also works fine for me.

[Grmps]

With the 9MM you do not want to over crimp due to the tapered case. I seat and crimp in one die, and I crimp just hard enough so the boolit doesn't move in the case when pushed against my relloading bench. Since my factory crimp die was already in my progressive , I raised the ram and screw the FCD in to where it just touched the catridge then I gave it 1/64th turn more. I no longer get leading.

[igolfat8]

Pull a few bullets and measure them to be sure the crimp isn’t swaging them undersized. FWIW, I shoot 9mm, sized to .357” mostly in KKM and stock Glock barrels. Bullets are 95, 115, 120, 124 and 125, two coats of Hi-Tek, with some pushed to 1600 FPS and no leading in barrel but I do get lead deposit build up in my comps though.

[Elkins45]

I finally broke down and bought some Hi-Tek and tried it on some 300 Blackout bullets. I haven’t shot them yet but I can tell you they look perfect. It only took one batch to get the hang of the process and I ended up coating several hundred bullets throughout the day.

I have high hopes that I might not ever lube a pistol bullet again.

[slide]

Let us know how it works out.

[lazs]

I have done both powder coat and Hi-Tek and have a quantity of both on hand. Mostly I just do HT these days since it is easier and more foolproof to me. On leading.. PC does seem to be more foolproof on leading by a slight bit for me. In all my revolvers and pistols tho I keep the velocity down to around 1200-1300 fps but out of my 44mag carbine it may be as much as 1600-1700 with no leading from either process.

On crimping.... I do a heavy roll crimp on all my revolver rounds. I do use a 'cowboy' expander tho which expands the case a bit more than normal. On 9mm and 45 acp I use the Lee FCD after seating. I actually just measure the loaded rounds case mouth dia to get the right crimp... function is most important to me. I am most likely overcrimping on the semi autos but so far no problems with accuracy or leading. If anything I would go to a larger expander and still crimp the case mouth to factory.

My thinking is this... and I could be way off... I have shot all these guns with a lot of conventional lube/size of my own. There was not ever a lot of leading. I used the same dies and FCD as I do now with PC or HT and the same crimps. Me thinks that HT should be superior to conventional lube (if done right) under any loading circumstance. I at least.. have not treated em differently... So far.. in every case.. the PC and HT bullets are always cleaner shooting and leave the barrels in better shape leading or fouling wise. In my experience and... your mileage may vary... the various coatings including HT somewhat aleviate the problems of sizing perfectly for the barrel or throat... in other words they are more forgiving if coated. maybe not perfect but more forgiving. this is important to me since I have several or more handguns in all the calibers I load and rarely is the barrel/throat of each the same. One gun may be so tight that a few thou bigger bullet will not chamber... this is not great.

At this point I am kinda sorta compromising. I pick a dia that will chamber in my tightest guns and call it good. I may even have to nudge the bullet in on some of the revolvers. HT is more forgiving on this. PC will add a lot of diameter to the bullet where it meets the throat and cause chambering problems more than HT which adds very little dia.

So far anyway.. .that is how it is working for me.

lazs

[slide]

Sounds like you have put a lot of time and effort into this. One more thing to think about. If powdercoated bullets set loaded for just a couple of days the gunpowder will start to break the powdercoat down. I didn't figure this out, igolfat8 discovered this. I have pulled some of my powdercoated rounds and the powdercoat was gummy and could be taken off easily with a fingernail. This seems to be with double base powders.No problem with the hi-tek. Good Job!

[lazs]

Wow.. this I have never even checked. never even really though about. I know the HT acetone rub test kinda proves the solvent resistance. I also suspect that the 'nylon' ammo for indoor ranges is really just PC or something very similar.

I have a lot of PC coated rounds.. I need to pull a few bullets and check.. I use WW231.. A#5 and several other powders all double based.. If I find 'gummy' rounds I will be interested in shooting the rest of the box and seeing what the results are.

Admittedly I don't shoot as many rounds as I used to but I do love to experiment. At this point HT is my coating of choice for handguns but I have nothing against PC. To be fair.. no matter how sloppy or old the rounds were the PC never leaded and was easy to clean.

IF.. and that is a big if. HT is not quite as friendly so far as leading as say PC.. that is no big deal.. Both systems are more forgiving than my decades of cast/lube bullets.

At... this.......point... me and all the guys who shoot my rounds are very happy with HT coating. while I am happy with the product I would welcome any 'improved' versions or methods also.

lazs

[slide]

You will get better at it as you gain more experience.

[slide]

Are you cleaning your swirl bucket? The coating keeps building up and the acetone cuts it and instead of your measured coating you may have too much. I had trouble with flaking until I started cleaning between batches. This is what worked for me. For somebody else it might not matter. You are measuring and weighing everything,right? Very important. According to Joe the coating starts setting a 357 F. and it needs to stay there for two to three minutes. You might try backing down on your temp a little.

[dansedgli]

That website says nothing about the coating being absolutely 100% dry enough which was the cause of my problems when I was getting flaking.

The hitek can be dry to touch but still not dry on the bullet side of the coating which means it doesnt bond.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Petander;4353007]How I wish I had some good and bad HT boolits on hand.

It's hard to chase The Perfect HT Boolit if you've never held and smashed one. I tend to get flaking on the second coat now, here I did three identical bakes on and the golden ones flake very little,the other two colors are worse.

How much flaking is too much? The first bake is perfect, an identical second bake starts flaking when smashed. I once baked the first coat alone for a second time and yes,it started flaking.

218991

About overcooking...

Attached is over cooked coatings.
The coatings should not flake with over baking.
As per pictures, baking at 200C for extended time, all passed test and shot well and accurately.
No Leading.
The coating and alloy must reach at least 180C, then be held there or above for another 3 minutes for a more complete cure.
Larger sized flakes with a second coat are generally caused by not enough drying, and also not being baked at correct conditions long enough possibly a combination of both..
The Plain colours allow slightly faster heat transfer into the alloy, and the "Metallics" reflect heat more, and it can be possible that alloy/coating did not heat up and cure adequately.
After applying second coat to a good first coat, (making sure that coating is dry) simply cook only a few for say 3-4 minutes longer, and compare results. Colours may darken, but coating should be OK.
219000
Over Cooked
219001
Refer to below link to see over cooked coating results.
219002

[Ausglock]

Fired around 400 rounds through the STI yesterday.
A real mixture of weights, shapes and colours.
The gun is still in the "run in" stage.
There were, KG. red copper, bronze 500, Red 122k, Red 254, Brick red, Gold 1035, CandyApple, Gunmetal and Black K15.

Got home and again, 1 patch wet with hoppes down the bore and it is shiny clean. Mirror bright.
These were a mix of different propellant powders as well. Win 231, AP-50, AP-70, AP-90, Power pistol, WST, Unique, Win 540 and green dot.

All worked fine.

This STI eats everything I throw at it from SWC to RNFP.
Most impressed with it.

[Ausglock]

Are you using any sort of mold release when casting?

No contaminants on your bullet storage containers.
Thanks, But I'll keep this STI...:bigsmyl2:

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Petander;4353224]219017

Gold was the best of the bunch. I have read the thread and tried longer cure times up to color change. Smash fail at 15 minutes,wipe fail at 10 minutes. I also have left some boolits in the oven bottom for days.


If you have solvent test failure after 10 minutes, the coating and alloy has not baked at correct conditions for long enough or you may have a contamination which prevents cross linking.

The solvent test is to specifically determine, if polymer is cross linked/baked adequately. If baking is inadequate, next coat application will simply strip off previous coat.
The important thing is that first coat passes both smash test and solvent test before you again coat.
If either fails, or both, with first coat, and after baking, you really have to examine why.
If you baked first coat, you cannot repair poorly bonded first coat by applying a second coat.
You have to find out why first coat failed any test. Change one parameter each time and test changed result.

Silly questions
1. How much alloy are you baking each time?
2. Are you measuring alloy load temperature or oven temperature?
3. What solvent are you using to make up coating mixture?

I am concerned, that after 10 minutes you get solvent wipe test failures and you are obtaining smash failures after 15 minutes.
That is not normal results.
The coating as posted recently, will not fail smash test after extended cooking. The colour should darken but no flaking. Flaking off is mainly due to inadequate drying or contamination, which results in coating being prevented from bonding.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=HI-TEK;4353233]

Silly answers: I have tried everything from six to 20 minutes bake. Many different temps. I measure everything everywhere. I have so many notes it's overwhelming now.
Please simply do a single coat, and dry. When you think they are dry, cook only a few. Do not worry about colour. Cool and do tests. Both tests have to pass. If it fails tests, continue drying for longer, and repeat test baking only with a few, with all setting and time being same as first test. If second small batch test again fails, continue drying. After a period, take a few again, and repeat. If after this you get failure of first coat. it is not drying that is the problem, as long as the coated alloy reaches adequate temperature and for long enough.

What is solvent you are using?
Before using a mix, how long is it mixed before applying to alloy?
How much coating mix are you making up for coating?

I do get a perfect first coat now in 12 minutes. Oven 200. +/- 5°C. Boolits hit 205 C max, IR meter. My Reply If your oven is set at 200C plus or minus 5C, I am wondering how alloy had reached 205C? My understanding on ovens, is that to get to 205C the oven may go higher to force load to that temperature

I repeat that and smash fail. Please explain this in detail, I don't understand what you are doing here


219018

219020.


I have old bullets, new bullets,WW, linotype, pure lead,water quench,not water quench etc...

This is only complicating your life. Simply use one alloy that was cast, and do your tests with that. Do not quench after baking, and simply fan cool baked alloy.
I am also considering, that Water may be forcing its way under baked coatings and lifting them with sudden cooling.[/I][/I]

[Ausglock]

The Acetone is UN1090???
Just for ****sNgiggles, do a first coat of 3mls per 2KG of bullets.
Bake for 12 mins.
Let cool under a fan etc etc.
apply 2nd coat of 5mls. air dry under a warm fan.
Bake for 12 mins.
do the smash after each coat.
Use the KG for this. OK?

You are pre-heating the oven to 200 deg C BEFORE inserting the tray of bullets.....?
Please do not water quench.
Can you get 2,6,92 alloy? It would be good tto use as a control test.
All these cheapskate alloys give me the horrors...

When you mix the coating. Do you leave it for 30 minutes to react before you use it to coat??

[Ausglock]

Tiny flaking will still shoot fine. Try them.
Have you slugged your bore?
size 1.5 thou over bore size. Eg bore .355 size .357

[ioon44]

I think what is too much flaking depends on the gun they are being shot out of.
I have shot coated bullets out of a .45 ACP that had some flaking and did not lead the barrel. There are a lot of factors to consider, does the bullet fit the barrel, does the reloading process damage the coating.

One mistake I made was trying to use too much coating on the second coat or third coat, this caused flaking even when the first coat passed the test.
I get the coated bullets up to 50 to 60 deg C for 30 minutes, this insures the first coat is dry and ready to bake and my convection oven runs 200 to 210 deg C.

[slide]

I am not an expert like Joe and Ausglock. Those smashed bullets don't look that bad to me. From my experience it is not unusual to get a small amount of flaking on a bullet with lube grooves. The tumble lube bullets are even worse. I don't pay attention to it anymore unless it is a lot of flaking. Like Ausglock said,it doesn't hurt to size your bullets a little bigger.

[slide]

Did you say you were using an IR meter? Is that a handheld temperature gun?

[slide]

That may be part of your problem. Those are made for solid objects,there are gaps between those bullets. Have you got an oven thermometer or something you could put in the oven with the bullets? Here is what I do. this is Ausglock's idea. Here we call them multi-meters. They measure volts,ohms,temp and they will go up to 1200 degrees F. I drilled a hole halfway into a bullet. these meters come with a thermocouple lead. It is just a thin wire. the end of the lead is taped into the bullet with high heat aluminum tape. It goes in with the bullets when they go into the oven. The lead is thin enough the door will still seal. I don't pay any attention to the temp until it hits 360 F. then I start a countdown timer set for six minutes. Remember Joe's 357 F. Works great! As far as the coating I mix as you do. I put 1/2 tablespoon which is 6 mils onto six pounds of bullets.I wish I could post photos. I need to get situated where I can.

[slide]

You'll get there. There is a learning curve to this stuff. Just don't overthink things.

[lazs]

petlander.. your smash test looks good to me. I have never had a bullet fail the acetone rub test. I have had some flaking with some colors but no big deal to me. Any bullet you buy from the commercial people who HT coat will pass any test I have seen.. Not sure passing the smash test is the end all to be all thing.

To be fair.. . I always perform the smash test after the second coat.

lazs

[HI-TEK]

Petander,
Is your oven fan forced?
I am thinking, that if you have fail with solvent test, you are not getting all the loaded coated alloy to correct temperatures.
The reason for my thinking this way, is that oven temperatures do not correlate well with a specific load if air is not well circulated.
Ideal conditions inside an oven is to have a Cyclone fan forced air mixing.
This evens out hot and cold spots, and also gets the total load up to correct baking conditions very fast and very evenly.
If your oven is simply a convection oven and no fan inside, I am thinking that this may be your cause of variations with results you are getting.
The amounts of coating you use seem OK, but the areas that are important,
1, Dry well, and test bake a few first, before baking the bulk, and
2, make sure they bake correctly/adequately with the load you place into the oven and don't overload, especially if there is no fan.
No magic involved. As per previous advice from others, don't over think this process.
If you are considering consistent and or larger volume production, I suggest that you invest in a good fan forced oven, even a second hand will do.

[wlkjr]

How soon after the first coat is cool do you apply the second coat and cook?

[Tazza]

My understanding was you don't need to wait. As long as it's cooled off enough, you can go for another coat.

I thought Ausglock mentioned that he would coat and cook an entire batch in one hit. Take a tray out and let it cool while another goes in, coat, let it dry while the others are cooking and then cook the newly coated/dried ones.

As Hi-Tek has mentioned, you must unsure the coats have fully dried between coating, heat helps it dry faster and fully. Ideally higher than ambient then you know no moisture is left in there.

[razorfish]

“The Toast Test”. I bought my convection oven years ago. It as dual squirrel cage fans and moves a lot of air. It was sold as a “parts only” oven, but when I got it working, the first thing I did was a “Toast Test”. My oven now makes absolutely perfectly even toast and very nice Hi-Tek boolits (No, I didn’t eat the toast).

I’ve seen others test with Pizza but I was able to do the same with bread and test every corner of my oven. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180424/3760ad92679488e13efe9c582b2b2524.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180424/bcfe3cf7d2c8efd2eaec06aa3685fcdb.jpg

[wlkjr]

You can apply second coat as soon as bullets are cool enough to handle. ( 75-80F) 2nd coat should be adequately dried same as first coat before cooking.

That's exactly as I have been doing but I wasn't clear in my question. It was directed to Petander. I haven't had any problems in my process.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=razorfish;4353825]“The Toast Test”. I bought my convection oven years ago. It as dual squirrel cage fans and moves a lot of air. It was sold as a “parts only” oven, but when I got it working, the first thing I did was a “Toast Test”. My oven now makes absolutely perfectly even toast and very nice Hi-Tek boolits (No, I didn’t eat the toast).



razorfish,
That is a great oven. I bet many would like one, 3 shelves and fan forced even heating.
I like the "toast test". It really shows even heat being circulated inside the oven.
Glad you did not eat the toast.

[HI-TEK]

My oven sure has a fan.

(I did both a French Fries-test and a pizza test before putting boolits in. They came out good. :). )

I got those wipe test fails last week,not anymore. Now my only concern is flaking - I also still don't understand how "overcooking" does no harm. If my temp is too high it should not harm? Well instructions say differently.
I will have to look into what was advised on US website

219131

It's hard to judge this flaking stuff without actually having proper, professionally coated boolits to compare with.
Attached are smash tests on various colours. There is no flaking

How does this look?

219132.

What is the large tear on smashed alloy? Where there is coating, there is no flakes visible.

You know, the leading I got the other day ... I just couldn't load any cast now. It's nerve-wrecking to shoot while thinking about how many hours you will scrub tonight. I will not "try" any anymore.

I only need to get the flaking thing sorted out. If manufacturers are shipping these boolits in bulk, they sure can't flake any, right?

No products should leave factory that fail tests


Please educate me: how much flaking is too much flaking?

Please refer to attached and determine things for your self.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbYOG5xKTr0
Heat reflecting
https://youtu.be/9ru_NYp7Y6c
Over Cooked and smash test results
219133
219134
219135

[HI-TEK]

Wow excellent,thank you very much!

Those bullets in my last pic are jacketed. It's the jacket that's tearing up,coating stays good on the flat bullet. But the other,smashed upright,that is starting to flake.

If I only knew. But I have never handled a coated boolit,that's why I have no idea what a good one is like.

Petander,
A local manufacturer coated Jacketed and Plated alloy with our Old Gold coating.
The aim was to stop Copper deposits, remove need for corrosive Copper removing chemicals that end up damaging the Bore.
It worked great. Barrels were clean and accuracy was also great. No residues in the bores.
Main stumbling block was that here, it is very small volume business and not many casters are interested in coating small quantities of Jacketed or plated ammo.
In US, as far as I am aware, a lot of Rifle ammo is now coated on Cast and non Jacketed, ... some with Gas checks and some without gas checks.

Now that you have seen results that can be obtained, with Cast alloy, (92/6/2) that is what your aim should be.
I doubt that any thing else comes close to reproducing what can be achieved with Hi-Tek coatings, (but... I may be biased in my thinking LOL LOL).

The post extracted from US website that you posted, may be up to 5 years old. It really needs upgrading or removal.

[Ausglock]

OK.
Stop.
The Hiperf text is incorrect.
Ignore it.
You CAN NOT hurt the coating by baking too hot or too long.
Look at the above pictures. They were done in My oven. See how the green went brown?
I left it there while I baked a heap of 45 pills. When it cooled, I smashed it along with a green one like the pictures.
The vid is also of me smashing a few 45 pills. Note: the top to bottom smash actually gave a slight flake. you can see the glitter on my fingers. Where the side smash did not. They SHOT FINE!!!!! in 45ACP as well as 45LC. The main cause of failure is baking BEFORE the coating is DRY. The second reason is using too much per coat.
I will bake 1st coat. remove from oven and place in front of fan to cool. 5 minutes later, I will apply the second coat. and repeat the baking process just like the first.

BUT... I have also had some bullet sit for over a month before the second coat was applied and baked. I have also has some sit with the first coat applied, but not baked for 3 weeks. Same for some with second coat.
How cool should they be before applying the second coat??? cool to the touch of your hand is fine.

Please note... I ONLY use 2,6,92 Virgin alloy. I don't play with Mystery metal, WW etc etc. They have too many variables in their ingredients.
So.
Stop.
Take a breath.
Think what you are doing.
Check everything.
Try again.
Size to different dia's and test.

It isn't rocket science.
I can make 30,000 bullets and coat in one day.
Supply them to 10 different people using 10 different firearms, but all have the same excellent results. Zero leading and great accuracy.

See how you go.

[HI-TEK]

Haha! :)

Here we have 500 pages worth oven customizing,temp talk,PID mods, people counting bake time in seconds, more temp talk...

I personally couldn't care less about boolit colour as long as it shoots without leading.


Petander, good points. However, all of these points and publications are based on reproducibility of a specific products finished looks.
Many don't care about colour, but you would be surprised at just how many want to get exactly the same results each time.
Oven designs, temperature control, even heating, all play a part of solving variations and getting consistent quality.
I am glad that many have gone the extra distance to either prove things wrong or confirm things. All contributed to a well informed wealth of data and I thank all for the input.
That is why this blog is 500 plus pages long.

May be, I am to blame also, I simply could have made a Black, and that is it, and refuse to spend years developing new colours.. Then, there would by no more issues with colour or changes and reasons for such change. The thread would be 2 or 3 pages long with no feed back from any one, that included all the extra knowledge and experiences.

With all the input, we also learnt about use of Lead, that was not suitable for ammunition manufacture, as many tried to rely on fixing engineering problems with a fix all intent, using the coatings. When they found things were not going their way, it was the coatings fault every time.
Unfortunately or fortunately I have been doing this since 1992, and I have seen and learnt a lot during that time.
I recall one instance, where a customer had problems for a year with peeling and flaking. During that time, it was carefully avoided, that despite using solvent that was recommended,
they failed to advise, that solvent used, was a recycled wash solvent contaminated with Grease and oil. After nearly ripping out my few strands of hair in frustration, worrying the hell out of me, the truth finally emerged after about a year of complaints on the public forum. I never did see an apology for all the badmouthing that was done.
Unfortunately, this sort of thing was not a once off situation, and... ...it is sad.

[slide]

We all love you Joe!!!!!

[HI-TEK]

We all love you Joe!!!!!

Thanks for support Slide, you also have done many tests and published results, and all members on this site benefitted greatly. Your work and input is much appreciated.

[Elkins45]

Well, I thought I had it all figured out until my 44 Magnum bullets failed the wipe off test. I put them back in the same toaster oven for another heat cycle, and when I took them out there were little silvery droplets of molten lead on the bullets. I don’t know how the lead manage to melt at what was supposed to be 400°, but I had not seen that on any of my other 11 minute baking cycles. What makes it worse is that this batch of bullets was cast from a different alloy after I drained my pot, so I have to redrain it to cast them over again.

I’m thinking I may need to hook my PID up to my toaster oven.

[Ausglock]

We all love you Joe!!!!!

Hahahahahahaha... No we don't.....hahahahahahaha.

You want to know what the secret ingredient is that makes the HITEK coating what it is?

Mr, Joe has kept the secret for over 30 years.
Well here it is.. The secret ingredient is...
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Donkey Urine.

[HI-TEK]

Well, I thought I had it all figured out until my 44 Magnum bullets failed the wipe off test. I put them back in the same toaster oven for another heat cycle, and when I took them out there were little silvery droplets of molten lead on the bullets. I don’t know how the lead manage to melt at what was supposed to be 400°, but I had not seen that on any of my other 11 minute baking cycles. What makes it worse is that this batch of bullets was cast from a different alloy after I drained my pot, so I have to redrain it to cast them over again.

I’m thinking I may need to hook my PID up to my toaster oven.

Elkins45,
It may be possible, you may have a special alloy of Lead that has a low melting point.
Years ago, where I worked, we had to get a special alloy of Lead, that melted at much lower temperatures than normal alloys. We used this low melting alloy as heat transfer media, to de-polymerise Acrylic plastics.
Having said this, again, many years ago, with a different project, a commercial Caster made his own conveyor oven with heaters above and below a wire belt. It had fans as well.
The oven thermometer read 200C. A tray of coated alloy went through, and when it emerged from the oven, the edges of tray had molten Lead, and in the middle the coating was not baked.
There seemed a temperature variation of over 100C in the oven.
Three things were learnt,
1. Tray was over loaded and load was heaped up in the middle, air circulation was at the edges, and where probe was located, it was reading temperature in the coldest area.
2. The alloy in certain areas was much too close to heating element, which concentrated heat in that area, which melted the Lead.
3. Internal heat circulation was totally inadequate, and a high speed fan had to be installed.

I believe that because of the possibility of many variations or combinations of Lead alloys being available, and user has no idea of properties, is why many simply use a certified alloy which has a known physical property and produces a consistent result.

With your oven, if your alloy is a correct one, the melting of the coated projectiles may be exposing poor heating control and inadequate air movement. When you were thinking all is well, it was not.

[slide]

We all love you too Ausglock!!!!!!!

[Avenger442]

Joe
Two or three pages .......LOL. Any blog I post on is going to have at least that in just my post. I've posted so many words and photos here they have banned me from posting photos from my computer:kidding:.

I had very little problems starting with Hi Tek. Sometimes I read the problems on here and am amazed that I was able to escape at first the things I see posted. Now mine have not been perfect by far and I have, in four years, had at least two cases of leading. One because I exceeded the ability of the alloy with the load. I have had flaking down to the lead when smashed when I coated too thick. And, like Treavor said, had bullets that gave just a dusting on the smash test which shot just fine. But have had so much success that I have not tried any other lubricant on my cast bullets. That is with the exception of some of my bullets that Slide PCed for me.

I want to see Petander succeed for a selfish reason. If he can shoot that 300 meter shot consistently accurate using Hi Tek that means it can be done out to 1000 yards accurately. And that is what I want to do or see someone do. If that is done there is no accuracy test left to pass for Hi Tek. Just think a Remington 700 rifle using a bullet that the guy made and coated in his garage consistently hitting a target (correction) over half a mile away. Now there is a test write up I would like to see.

We have a guy that occasionally comes to the range when I'm there. He is about my age so we talk some. He said he is ex-Army sniper and did work for the federal government as a sniper and trainer. He can put five of his handloads in the same ragged hole at 100 yards. They are not just one ragged hole, they are center target. And he can do it not just sometimes but every time he shoots. Best I've ever seen. I've thought about making him some bullets and trying to talk him into loading and shooting them. But longest range we have is 200 yards at that range and really not a test for him. We don't have a public or private range that I know of that has anything over 300 yards.

I still want to get back to testing myself but have to pass for right now. Too many things more important. Latest was my son was killed in an automobile accident right in front of me. I have come to terms with the idea that God allows things that I just don't like sometimes. You guys remember us as we deal with it. Hoping to get back into it about mid June. Should have things under control by then.

Petander
I think I have some photos of pass and failed smash test that will give you an idea of what we are talking about. Also some that gave what has been called a dusting that shoot fine at 100 yards in rifle. If you want them I'll PM them to you. I've posted them before so you can go back to my post and look at them. But have had to stop posting photos since the site updated.

[Ausglock]

We all love you too Ausglock!!!!!!!

Hahahaha... Pervert...hahaha..

[slide]

My gosh Avenger442, I had no idea,I am sorry for your loss. May God hold you and yours in his comforting hands.

[HI-TEK]

"Latest was my son was killed in an automobile accident right in front of me. I have come to terms with the idea that God allows things that I just don't like sometimes. You guys remember us as we deal with it.

Hello Avenger 442,
I am truly shocked and have a great deal of sorrow with this news. Please accept my sincere condolences to you and your family. Please keep in touch as possible.
Kindest regards to you and your family
Joe

[dikman]

Avenger, it's difficult to comprehend how you must be feeling right now. I think one of our greatest fears, as parents, is that our children die before we do. It is not going to be easy to be able to accept such a thing, but I truly hope you can remain strong and, in the future, can continue your valued contributions to this community.

My thoughts are with you and your family.

[Ausglock]

Is MEK readily available where you are?

MEK works great rather than Acetone. It gives longer swirl time in hot weather too.

[lazs]

After just spending a great week with my kids and grandkids... Avenger.... I have no words. I simply can not imagine the pain.

lazs

[Avenger442]

Guys

Slide and I had a conversation before this happened where I was going through all the other things that are keeping me from doing much of my hobby stuff. We have had a bad year and, if you look at it in another way, a good year. Two of my closest relatives my Mom and my Son are now a lot better off than I am. God has never left me alone to go through this type of loss. My hope is that all of you can say the same.
I appreciate the thoughts.
My contributions to this site may be minimal for a while. And I really didn't mean to hijack the conversation. So back to the coating.:bigsmyl2:

[HI-TEK]

Petander I sent you a PM.

[HI-TEK]

Hi Avenger,
I do not think that you hijacked this conversations. I am sure that all who contributors really are upset about such family crisis matters and would not consider any ill feelings towards your posts.
I always place family first and most important, .......Coatings....... it can wait.

[slide]

Blessed are those who mourn,for they shall be comforted.

[Tazza]

Hi Avenger,
I do not think that you hijacked this conversations. I am sure that all who contributors really are upset about such family crisis matters and would not consider any ill feelings towards your posts.
I always place family first and most important, .......Coatings....... it can wait.

I second Joe's comment, you look after yourself and do what you need to do.

[dansedgli]

Quick 11 round group with my latest batch out of a shadow 2. At about 18 yards off hand.

Black cherry hi tek. Range scrap from my local indoor range. We mainly shoot commercial cast projectiles.

219295219296

[dikman]

I wonder where those ausssies get all that patience,helping us idiots out time after time?

Drinking beer helps :drinks:.

[Ausglock]

Quick 11 round group with my latest batch out of a shadow 2. At about 18 yards off hand.

Black cherry hi tek. Range scrap from my local indoor range. We mainly shoot commercial cast projectiles.

219295219296

And shoot them bloody well too, I might add.
You bloody burglar.
When do you collect your new gun?
You gunna be at Blacktown for the NSW state titles??

[HI-TEK]

Quick 11 round group with my latest batch out of a shadow 2. At about 18 yards off hand.

Black cherry hi tek. Range scrap from my local indoor range. We mainly shoot commercial cast projectiles.

219295219296


That is great shooting.
What was the spread on the target?
What did you shoot it with, & load.

Now, Ausglock is worried you will take his title.....lol

[HI-TEK]

Good shooting! Glass-like coating!

Mine shot fine but the barrel looks like this after nine rounds:

219297

I wonder if I have baked my barrel instead of boolits?



Your picture is blurred. What coating did you shoot?
Is your barrel gold or is that coating deposit, cant tell from picture what you are trying to show.

[dansedgli]

And shoot them bloody well too, I might add.
You bloody burglar.
When do you collect your new gun?
You gunna be at Blacktown for the NSW state titles??

The gun should be on it's way to my dealer by now. My PTA only got sent off last friday though. It's probably 2 weeks away.

Not going to blacktown this year. It's right in the middle of busy time at work, I can't take the days off either side of the weekend unfortunately.

[dansedgli]

That is great shooting.
What was the spread on the target?
What did you shoot it with, & load.

Now, Ausglock is worried you will take his title.....lol

About 2 inches. I didn't really shoot for groups, I was just making sure they were hitting in the right spot with this load. 4 grains of AP70, the projectile is about 127 grains, shot out of a CZ shadow 2. It's a 130 grain mihec mold.

[HI-TEK]

Sorry bout the colour,it's just a backlight.

219301

Green, normal bake twice using Ausglock instructions above. .358. No crimp,no shave (38 S&W expander).

These didn't smell much plastic though. Slightly overbaked. Just wondering if I have managed to get coating stick in the barrel somehow.


Thanks for clarification.
Can you wipe out the residue, or is it bonded to bore?

If coating is bonded to bore, that coating was not cured. Heat will and can re-activate not correctly cured coating, and whilst it is reacting/crosslinking with heat from powder and gasses, it becomes very sticky. At that point, it sticks and welds to most metals. After that, it is very difficult to remove as it becomes bonded and inert and not affected by cleaners or solvents.

A fully cured coating will not melt, or become sticky or bond with other surfaces. It is very inert and will tolerate heat, and solvents, and wont become sticky or re-dissolve.
I am not completely clear what you are advising with this post. Can you please elaborate with a little more detail?
You seem to be advising some very strange results I have never seen before.

[lazs]

So far I have been very lucky with not getting any coating bonded to the barrel. this may be off topic but I don't do anything special... except... my cleaning solvent of choice is Ed's Red that I make with lanolin in it. Ed's red has ATF as the real oil in the mix.. but leave out everything but Acetone and ATF (mixed 50/50) and what you have is one of the best penetrating oils you can get. Doing creep tests on rusty nuts/bolts shows how well this works..

Now.. this is a theory so bear with me.... I think the penetrating aspect of the Ed's Red gets into the pores of the metal... I don't think anything on the planet can stick to the oil part of that. I came to this conclusion years ago using conventional lube/size bullets and getting the occasional leaded barrel and of course burn rings on cylinders... soaking in ER overnight made this stuff brush right out.

If you don't want the mess and potential fumes problems of ER then there is Kroil.. it is expensive but smells a LOT better LOL... It does not take a lot and once the pores are 'treated' by normal regular cleaning.. cleaning seems to get easier every time.

lazs

[slide]

Petander, have you determined what that is in your barrel yet?

[Ausglock]

I have only ever used Hoppes No.9 solvent for all my guns.
But when I was using wax lubed bullets, I also has a Lewis Lead remover kit.
It's not needed these days. the coated bullets keep the cleaning down to 1 patch of solvent.
Even the comp on my TruBor stays clean when running 125gn SWC at 1400 fps.

[dansedgli]

Thats pretty good. Mine gets full pretty quick with blackwidows so ive switched to tigersharks.

[slide]

Hey Ausglock, Seems like I remember a post of yours where you bent the blades of a fan in a convection oven to get more air flow. If true , looking at the fan from the back which way did you bend them?

[HI-TEK]

Thats pretty good. Mine gets full pretty quick with blackwidows so ive switched to tigersharks.


What is or who is Tigersharks?

[dansedgli]

What is or who is Tigersharks?

Tigershark projectiles. They are electroplated with copper like frontier projectiles. I use these in my open gun and cast lead in everything else.

https://tigersharkballistics.com.au/

[HI-TEK]

Tigershark projectiles. They are electroplated with copper like frontier projectiles. I use these in my open gun and cast lead in everything else.

https://tigersharkballistics.com.au/

Thanks for information.
If they are Copper plated, what happens to the Copper deposits in the bore?
Do you know, that you can coat, even using just a single coat to lube that Copper and reduce Copper fouling?

[dansedgli]

I didn't know that. I am not sure I would bother unless I can get a bigger oven.

I am happy to clean the barrel but chipping the lead out of my compensator was a chore and a half.

I'm curious as to why Ausglock's doesn't lead vs the other projectiles I've used. I thought they were all the same. Maybe the final bullet sizing is different.

[Tazza]

I haven't heard great things about tigersharks. They are copper plated, just like a FMJ and look awesome. Some ranges will not let you shoot them as they feel it is a jacket, even though the "jacket" is very thin. For the range i shoot at, we can't use jacketed projectiles on steel targets for obvious reasons, potential ricochets.

A guy i know tried some out with a mate of his and would get 4 in the same hole, then there was a flier. They measured the projectiles and found the sizing was inconsistent, hopefully just a bad batch, but they were not impressed. He now uses frontiers now, same plating but very accurate.

[dansedgli]

Ive never had any luck with frontiers. I shot a pb in service match last week with the tigersharks. 854.

Here is a 25y group.

219358

[Ausglock]

I tried the 123gn HP Tgrshks against my 125gn SWC and 125gn Conical out of the TruBor.
At the same 168P/F, there was no noticeable accuracy difference between them.
I can't justify the extra $30 per 1000 for the Tgrshks over my own coated cast pills.

[ioon44]

I quenched bullets to 22 BHN years ago and found they leaded more than 14 BHN bullets with the same lube, this was long before coated bullets.

I shoot a lot of 10-13 BHN bullets at 850 fps+/- with the Hi-Tek coating sized .002" over bore, for 9mm I like to get up around 14-15 BHN and run a lot of these out of a 9 mm carbine with 16" barrel. I would't shoot them out of a permanently suppressed carbine either.

I don't think soft lube does any thing to seal the bore.

[lazs]

Ausglock.... I have not had much problems with leading of course now that I coat but at one time when I first started casting I tried everything... I still have a lewis lead remover in 44/45 I have never been a big fan of Hoppes but have tried about everything.

So this guy comes over with a pre model 27 in pretty good original condition but that obviously not had much cleaning in it's life. I cleaned the gun normally but There was obviously a lot of lead in the bore. I remembered that I had some 'Frontier' scrub... it is like a chore boy scrubber but some kind of silver alloy... it claims it won't hurt 'the finest blue' and is better than steel wool. What it is good for tho is that I wrap some strands of it around a bore brush and run em through the barrel.. it does a really nice job of removing lead. I would say that for most things it works at least as good and as fast as the lewis lead remover.

lazs

[Ausglock]

I still blame the Tanwog.....:bigsmyl2:

My current 9mm pet load is a 150gn RN loaded with 3.0gn AP-70 (Hodgdon universal to you northerners). Velocity out of the STI Tac 5.0 is 900fps for a 136 Power factor. ES is 10fps. very accurate at 25 yards. Gun is soft and smooth to shoot.

[OldBearHair]

You have heard the term"Up Jumped the Devil", well as I was working up the ladder for 30-30 Marlin 336C with some 170 grain cast and 113 grain cast boolits with Hi-Tek Gold, the groups started opening up badly and I discovered leading in the barrel. I shut it down, cleaned the barrel, set the rifle down and began to retrace my steps. Set everything up to load more rounds with 3031 powder and nine 170 grainers. As I ran the first bullet in the die there was a hard spot (sort of scraping sound) .Thought it was only the die closing the belling around the bullet. Luckily I seated the first bullet a few thousandths deep and picked up the hammer type bullet puller. The bullet came out enough to show that the case had scraped the lead from one side of it and deposited it in the bullet groove. Then I checked the inside chamfer of the case and it wasn't chamfered. Inspected the container with the primed brass ready for loading and they had minimal chamfer. They had been done lightly with the 100 degree tool. So, I used a rotary file in 18v drill and did a longer degree nearly half the diameter of the brass on all the brass. Next loaded one and felt the hard spot where the die closes the belling without the scraping feel. The belling is plenty big to start the bullet, but the die still puts a lot of pressure closing the belling. It is an RCBS die. Use a spacer under the locked die nut .075 thick to keep the crimp from happening and seat to proper OAL. Remove the spacer and tighten die down to give a light crimp in a second step.
How about some feedback? Do I need to polish the die larger in the belling area? Change procedure? Do more of pulling bullets to check? Or just go hunt some pigs with the bullets from another good batch?
The picture shows the chamfer on the three brass lying on the rotary file and the one bullet with the lead and coating scraped off that was pulled. Two good bullets. A couple gas checks. And a Barrick made sizer die and pushrod. No blame at all on the coating as it was still attached to the lead that was scraped off. . 219426

[slide]

Hang tight! Some of the rifle guys will be along and give you a hand.

[Ausglock]

Honestly???

Try a different gun.
and have a look at the excel file on this form that will help you mix an alloy to 2.6.92 hardness.

[slide]

It is not the coating. Too many use it and have no problems. But, everybody always blames the coating. I think going back to fmj would be best for you. I have to admit it ticks me off that you discredit Joe and all his work.

[glockfan]

petander: something might be wrong with how you resize in relation to your bore. did you slugged your barrel to see what would be the best resizing numbers?

leading goes with a less than maximal obturation of the barrel via an incorrect boolit size. i'm shooting cast
WW's and i don't get that much leading in my nine, while i shoot .357's because i got some leading with .356.

as for the hi tek desintegrating, again there's something wrong. either deposits on your casts that prevent the coating from fully bonding with the lead, OR an incorrect bake time or the inside oven temp swinging up-down all the time.

[HI-TEK]

petander:

as for the hi tek desintegrating, again there's something wrong. either deposits on your casts that prevent the coating from fully bonding with the lead, OR an incorrect bake time or the inside oven temp swinging up-down all the time.

Glockfan,
It is not clear, if all the coatings that were tested/used in fact produced same fail results. If all the coatings failed, then things are very obvious.

I have suspicions that there could be a reaction with metal, or there is some sort of cross contamination or both.
I posted independently over baking and smash results after over baking, and using several coatings.
It is not over baking causing problems.
Failed solvent test after bake at extended time, indicates no cure.
What ever is causing this lack of bonding and no cure is a real mystery.
I have never seen this previously.
I don't know how many times I have stated, that various metals and or cross contaminations will and can react with the coating during bake which prevents bonding.
There are many hundreds of thousands satisfied users around the world. Sometimes, a few may get bad results, and all attempts are made to help and identify the problem.
For whatever reason, the real reasons for failure seem never revealed.

[Petander]

It is not the coating. Too many use it and have no problems. But, everybody always blames the coating. I think going back to fmj would be best for you. I have to admit it ticks me off that you discredit Joe and all his work.


Sorry for that,I thought I made clear it's my alloy that's the problem.Im not blaming the coating or anyone for anything.

I thought for a while that I made good bakings and went on testing,it's me messing up here. I shoot cast, FMJ:s and arrows too, no need to go back. But I get your point and removed my report.

Just cleaning the gun now with Forrest foam,here it is after 100 Magtech FMJ factory rounds today. I have baked the coating underneath pretty hard it seems. The barrel looked clean after Foul Out overnight,FMJ:s brought the black crud up and visible again.

219514

[Ausglock]

Can you get one of your shooting mates to try your rounds in their gun?
Anything other than a Tanwog.
Hell...My Glock 17 eats hitek coated all day in the factory barrel. no issues.

[glockfan]

Joe. Trevor.

speaking about cross contamination preventing the correct bonding effect.....in petander case, i'm pretty much convinced this has to be related to the smelting process . how the lead can be contaminated this bad that hi tek doesn't '''penetrate''' the lead surface at all?....!. it has to be a foreign element who made its way ''''into''' the lead during the smelting part, then released in the casting pot during the casting process , hence the why hi tek won't bond with the lead ?......IIRC he even washed his boolits with acetone to ''erase ''' any possible residual matter ! and it did not worked either!!

[Ausglock]

When smelting or casting, I only use Bees Wax to flux my alloy.

[ioon44]

About 2 years ago a friend of mine bought some .32 cal wad 105 gr cutters un sized from a well known commercial caster here in the states and wanted me to do the Hi-Tek coating.

When I tried to coat the wad cutters the coating would not stick to the bullets, I never did figure out if it was the alloy or contamination after they had been cast, I don't want to play that game again.

[Petander]

Can you get one of your shooting mates to try your rounds in their gun?
Anything other than a Tanwog.
Hell...My Glock 17 eats hitek coated all day in the factory barrel. no issues.

I don't have the courage to feed these in anyone else's gun right now. Not to mention my B&T carbine what this is all about,my idea was to see if I can coat and shoot my existing pile of boolits with it. I sound lika a parrot.

This *** Tanfoog is shooting this same boolit and load(s) plain,not coated,just fine. I have used this alloy with who knows how many guns since 2001 or so when I smelted a few tons. In this board archives you eg. find me developing sub 45-70 and 308 ammo in 2005 , here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-2060.html


I don't have general cast or reload problems. I adjust hardness by varying the amount of linotype.

I use factory fmj ammo with this Tanfock most of the time for practical reasons (pun) , this is not the gun I'm planning the coated ammo for. Just shot a box of these same 166, plain,lubed,not coated @ 1030 fps,got the black crud out first.

219583

219584

[Petander]

Joe. Trevor.

speaking about cross contamination preventing the correct bonding effect.....in petander case, i'm pretty much convinced this has to be related to the smelting process . how the lead can be contaminated this bad that hi tek doesn't '''penetrate''' the lead surface at all?....!. it has to be a foreign element who made its way ''''into''' the lead during the smelting part, then released in the casting pot during the casting process , hence the why hi tek won't bond with the lead ?......IIRC he even washed his boolits with acetone to ''erase ''' any possible residual matter ! and it did not worked either!!

Yep,something like this it is. Zinc is possible, at that time zinc ww started to become common. I remember some making it to the pot but being quick you can take it out before it melts.

This is not the end of the world,I may very well try cleaning later on.
9 mm is not my highest priority in this hobby,long range is more important. Well,I like it all,shotgun trap is great fun we have a good little bunch of shooters here... Moving moose target with rifles is even better... Three gun is cool...


I used beeswax and sawdust. Lots of them. First I made straight ww,then mixed lino 10% or 30% and made ingots. Fluxing in every turn.

Here you see again how deceiving sideways smash looks. Smashed upright like the green one shows how it flakes. It has to be my alloy, I have done so many different bakes now that I know at least something about what is happening and what is not.

219593

[Tazza]

I was pretty sure Joe said that Hi-Tek would bond to pretty much any metal, doesn't need to be just lead, so any zinc contamination shouldn't be an issue. As long as the metal is clean of oils it should stick.

With the heat of the molten lead, any oils for fluxing should be burnt off, the only possible point of contamination is sprue plate lube.

Washing with acetone or MEK before coating may be a good idea.

[Ausglock]

Zinc in with lead gives a white powder type corrosion over time. The coating will not stick.

[Tazza]

Oh, even fresh out of the mould or after it oxidizes?

[Ausglock]

After awhile. I have seen them coated fresh. and then a month or so later, the coating will flake off.

[Tazza]

Oh, not good. Makes it harder to use ww unless you are super careful to keep the zinc ones out

[HI-TEK]

Oh, not good. Makes it harder to use ww unless you are super careful to keep the zinc ones out

Tazza,
If there is Zinc in alloy or wheel weights, simply soak them in Hydrochloric acid, (concrete cleaning grade). The acid will dissolve Zinc From surface of cast, leaving a porous surface. Then, thoroughly wash, and dry well, and then coat some.
Hopefully with Zinc gone from surface, there will be better bonding.

[Tazza]

That is a very clever idea. I'll need to give that a go next time i get hold of lead that may be contaminated with zinc. Good way to test unknown wheel weights to see if they are lead or not.

[HI-TEK]

Zinc in with lead gives a white powder type corrosion over time. The coating will not stick.

Unfortunately, there may be other more "reactive" metals that also will cause adhesion failures. These can be Aluminium, Cadmium, Magnesium, all can be in wheel weights of various sorts. These all oxidise very quickly, and they are also reactive with coatings. That is why manufacturers coating metals with these in the metal or on the surfaces, Phosphate anodise . This forms a stable non reactive high surface area to allow excellent bonding of applied coatings.
I made fishing Snapper sinkers from scrap Lead mixture. In about a week there was a crust of white powdery scale on the surface. These are the contaminants that will cause failure. As people are trying to recycle and use cheaper source of metals, and not being aware of composition, or any way of testing composition, it makes life very hard to determine why things go wrong. With initial cost saving, and the substantial work put into casting and coating, if one considers labour costs for having to melt and re-melt over and over, really does not save any money. It would be better to use a known alloy that has correct engineering property.

[dikman]

I stopped using WW pretty quick. It's what our Colonial cousins call a crapshoot these days with WW, you never know what you're going to end up with (usually not much lead!).

[Stephen Cohen]

I am almost at the end of my 400 KG lead stash, I used range scrap and wheel weights with a little hard lead shot thrown in. I have only had one fail batch and that was contaminated with Zink. If one does use range scrap and wheel weights one must pay attention to give each batch an acid test, I don't understand all the problems some have as I have been very happy with my results using HI-TEK. As a good mate of mine said, when all else fails read the instructions. I often wonder if both Joe and Ausglock are both bald from pulling their hair out over repeated advice. Regards Stephen

[Petander]

Zinc in with lead gives a white powder type corrosion over time. The coating will not stick.

Hers's some of my straight WW,the flat blocks in the corner. My existing problem boolits are made of this stuff plus 10% linotype, cast years ago. But I have made fresh reference boolits,too,same minor flaking with new cast as well. (I still don't know how much flaking is too much,those green rounds have been in my vest pocket for ten days now,not much wear.)

These lead blocks have been in an outside shed for 15 years. I know the white you mean, none of that is visible here though. Some other mystery there is and it will be solved. Boolits have been inside.

219675

[Petander]

As a good mate of mine said, when all else fails read the instructions. I often wonder if both Joe and Ausglock are both bald from pulling their hair out over repeated advice. Regards Stephen

Yep and I'll be bald soon,too. :)

The problem with threads like this is exactly that,repetition. People don't read old posts.

I mentioned many times that I read this whole thread,every post. Now I've gotten all that information again and again, on every page someone asks "have you slugged your barrel?" . I explain again and again that I have old boolits that I wanted to try coated,in a suppressed carbine. I used to shoot them with another suppressed carbine. I have like 7000 of them. Coating flakes a little after second bake. No big surprise,them being old ww boolits.

These are very accurate in my Daewang test pistol. Just can't leave all lube out yet.

Repetition is why I deleted most of my posts in this thread. Everyone repeats everything. I also repeat that I read instructions so good that I found a mistake in the instructions. :)

But well,my boolits are of bad alloy,I will try cleaning my alloy later on.

Absolutely definitely I am not badmouthing Hi Tek, some people think failure reports are automatically badmouthing.

[Grmps]

I found a large countertop coating oven with good reviews. I'm happy with what I have but if someone wanted to do a larger volume with a countertop oven, this would be the ticket

https://i.imgur.com/GBEvc38.jpg

https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-bench-top-powder-coating-oven.html

The Eastwood Benchtop Powder Coating Oven accommodates most small powder coating jobs and features a highly efficient, anti-stratification fan system for even heat distribution within the oven. A convenient, full-view, low-e glass door provides for viewing parts during the critical flow-out stage $99.99 + $22.33 = 122.32 SHIPPED

Contents (1) Benchtop Powder Coating Oven (2) Wire Racks (1) Rack Handle
SPECIFICATIONS Power requirements = 120 Volts AC 50/60hz, 1400 watts Internal dimensions = 16” W x 14” D x 8” H [406mm x 355mm x 203mm] Temperature Max. = 450°F+ [232°C+]

[Avenger442]

We do love repeating ourselves.

Give you another tip to remove zinc from alloy. You can use copper sulfate (root killer). Be prepared to heat the metal to about 700 F and when you add the copper sulfate there will be some crackling. You can read up on it in some of the threads on this blog where they add copper to their alloy to increase the toughness of the bullet and still keep it malleable. The copper actually replaces the zinc in the alloy. Suggest you read up on it first before trying. I tried it and it works. But it's just too involved since I have to add zinc back into my alloy to get the copper to replace it.

Like they said, if you are going to coat commercially (or just for someone else to use) you need to start with a known alloy even though it is considerably more. That way you don't have possible dependability issues with your customers. And loose the most important thing, their trust. You will be rolling the cost into the price to the customer anyway. Good old capitalism.

I just shoot my own. I have had folks asked me to load them a few but have never done it. My wheel weights have been gone through twice to eliminate any zinc weights before smelting. I guess that I could have some other contamination. But I have never experienced it with the weights that I have been using. I still have about 400 pounds of COWW ingots smelted and fluxed twice and probably 200 pounds of soft lead. None of it is showing any powdery substance on the surface. Guess I'll use that till I use it up. Wheel weights here are about forty cents a pound at the scrap yard here and I get to sort them at the yard. Commercial casting metals can run two to three dollars a pound. So you can understand the attraction of using them.

[popper]

Zn is not the problem. I did some 2% Zn, no problem.

[Petander]

That oven looks good, Grmps.

I ordered one of these,got 2200 watts and is "designed for powder coating".

219703.


Yeah right,this doesn't even have a fan. So I cancelled of course.

[Petander]

Avenger,

I'm actually thinking of small scale distribution of Hi Tek powder. Not bullets. But more like a hobby byproduct, I think we all shooters are on the same side and need to support each other.

The whole casting scene in Finland is just very small and different , compared to yours. We have no casting tradition at all, SWC:s cost more than FMJ:s, lead can not be bought, everything casting related has to be ordered from overseas. Not a problem,just slows things down. I aim for better ammo,cheaper can't be a main criteria in my case. Heck,lead will soon be a black market item with a gold price tag.

Joe sent me all that zinc/copper info,it has been up here many times as well. Repetition is The King!

[dikman]

You only have to read some of the PC section to see that repetition is quite common there too. Human nature, I guess.

[dansedgli]

At the risk of a repetitive question, is there a place we can see all of the available colours?

I am near the end of my black cherry and would like to try another colour.

[Grmps]

http://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/hi-tek-supercoat-powder-3-5-oz-container/

[dansedgli]

http://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/hi-tek-supercoat-powder-3-5-oz-container/

Thanks Grmps.

[Stephen Cohen]

Zn is not the problem. I did some 2% Zn, no problem.

I tend to agree with you on such a small amount not being a real problem, the one time I had a problem with zinc I used sulphur to remove it and that alloy was ok after treatment. A very good mate of mine had problems with flaking, while those cast shot well in his 45/70 he kept changing one thing at a time till he found the problem. I wont say this will work for all but he did find his small toaster ovens heat variation was the problem, to cure this he placed a large steel plate in the bottom of his oven and allowed it to heat up before cooking any cast, I also had him add about 25% more acetone, so his first coat was just visible on the castings which prevented him putting a too thick first coat on. It was not my intention to offend with my last post and if I have done so I do apologise. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

Hahaha.. Offend away... I do... all the bloody time... It's like an artform and I have the gold medal for offending clowns with thin skin.

Sometimes it just isn't fun as the snowflakes get offended at the drop of a hat. No fun when you don't get to work for it.

Maybe I need a new venture.....

[Stephen Cohen]

Hahaha.. Offend away... I do... all the bloody time... It's like an artform and I have the gold medal for offending clowns with thin skin.

Sometimes it just isn't fun as the snowflakes get offended at the drop of a hat. No fun when you don't get to work for it.

Maybe I need a new venture.....

Its like passing wind and messing your pants there is no enjoyment unless you realise the consequences of your actions beforehand um um so I have been told. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

The old Fart followthrough... not nice.They tell me you are not drunk until you are Soil your pants drunk.
I live a sober life...:bigsmyl2:

[Tazza]

WOW, this conversation really took a change :)

There are times you never trust a fart, we have all been there....

[Petander]

One thing at a time,yes. I added alcohol to dilute the solution now,not bad. Also doing hcl cleaning.

It's wednesday,right? I haven't had any normal life for two weeks now, baking and tweaking and measuring and shooting and scrubbing and shooting more and scrubbing... I think I have used 1000 primers just for test rounds in two weeks. :).

I like this bullet a lot.

219735

[Avenger442]

[QUOTE=Petander;4360137]Avenger,


The whole casting scene in Finland is just very small and different , compared to yours. We have no casting tradition at all, SWC:s cost more than FMJ:s, lead can not be bought, everything casting related has to be ordered from overseas. Not a problem,just slows things down. I aim for better ammo,cheaper can't be a main criteria in my case. Heck,lead will soon be a black market item with a gold price tag.


We have some folks here in the US that have been trying to get lead banned, too. So far the freedoms we love so well have held the day. You not only can buy lead from distributors but can still get it at scrap yards. I was offered about two hundred pounds of soft lead last time I was at the scrap yard. Trouble was they want sixty cents a pound for soft lead and cash. I didn't have enough cash.

I can remember when they banned asbestos from use and all the trouble and burden on the tax payer that caused. Because of it's fire resistance, it was probably one of the most used products next to wood and steel in the construction industry. Many products became less dependable or just plain old unusable when they changed the composition to exclude asbestos. It took about ten years for that to be sorted out and another twenty to remove where it had been used in buildings. Still a bit here and there. Some folks made a lot of money off of the tax payer back then.

[Stephen Cohen]

One thing at a time,yes. I added alcohol to dilute the solution now,not bad. Also doing hcl cleaning.

It's wednesday,right? I haven't had any normal life for two weeks now, baking and tweaking and measuring and shooting and scrubbing and shooting more and scrubbing... I think I have used 1000 primers just for test rounds in two weeks. :).

I like this bullet a lot.

219735
Yes mate seems to shoot well. I would consider casting tweeking and shooting a normal life, but at 63 my love life is a smack on the but if I am lucky, and its a fleeting one at that. This coating is the best thing since my wedding night all those yeas ago, once you get that first coat right you have won the battle and any problems after that are normally easy to sort even if they do drive you nuts in the process. sounds a lot like marriage don't it. Regards Stephen

[Petander]

You are rght,it is normal life.

We have a 300m day today and I also have arranged a meeting with a G17. Will try .356 & .358, it's not easy to describe thing like "a little flaking" but I do get very little now. I have both lubed and plain Hi Tek rounds to go.

These Hi Teked boolits are so nice to handle,I don't mind using wax lube with HT if I can get this kind of accuracy and peace of mind. But one step at a time it is.

[lazs]

I agree with Stephen that running the mix lean does not hurt a thing and helps with a lot of problems some folks have.. yes.. the bullets do not coat heavily the first coat but? who cares? I am gonna try the steel plate in the bottom trick tho.. thanks.. What I do now is wait forever to get up to temp each time and then use a 12-14 minute bake time. This is with a small convection oven that... when doing a lot of batches... gets opened and closed a lot.

lazs

[dikman]

I put a couple of pieces of old firebrick in the bottom of my little oven and it definitely helps with the heat recovery from opening the door.

[Petander]

Is this smell information correct?

219843

[Stephen Cohen]

Some years back when I was President of my local pistol club I saw a lot of problems with the commercial coated cast bullets, this ranged from badly fouled barrels to loose coating being blown out of revolver cylinder gaps. I refused to use these coating until I realized I could do it myself and properly. I cant remember what smell there was but I do know you get a smell as described when baking them. I purchased some commercial coated cast from an Australian company a few years back and the coating could be picked of those with the finger nail, I wont say which brand as I will no doubt be sued. Regards Stephen

[HI-TEK]

Some years back when I was President of my local pistol club I saw a lot of problems with the commercial coated cast bullets, this ranged from badly fouled barrels to loose coating being blown out of revolver cylinder gaps. I refused to use these coating until I realized I could do it myself and properly. I cant remember what smell there was but I do know you get a smell as described when baking them. I purchased some commercial coated cast from an Australian company a few years back and the coating could be picked of those with the finger nail, I wont say which brand as I will no doubt be sued. Regards Stephen

Stephen, why would any one sue you for finding a faulty product?
Years ago, I heard of similar findings from others.
I was sent pictures of packaging that had flakes, and powdery type sediment in them, and if I recall were a Golden colour .

[Petander]

All my fired bullets,1000+ of them by now, have had that smell. Some more,some less. I thought it's normal.

Some seriously overbaked dark ones had hardly any smell , especially with slower powder.

I'm using a new 2500 Watt oven now. More power to me!

I have these same flaking/test fail problems with fmj:s and linotype too, my WW alloy may be fine after all. I can overbake real dark and fail acetone test.

Stopped all shooting and reloading for now. I'm not giving up.

[Ausglock]

If you can overbake to a darker colour than normal and Still fail the wipe test, Something is seriously wrong. That is not possible. Wipe off is a sign of underbake. Darkening is a sigh of overbake. The 2 can't be combined.

[HI-TEK]

If you can overbake to a darker colour than normal and Still fail the wipe test, Something is seriously wrong. That is not possible. Wipe off is a sign of underbake. Darkening is a sign of overbake. The 2 can't be combined.

Ausglock
Despite trying to get details, if all coatings that Petander has used, if all failed the tests the same way, but no details are supplied aside from posting failure with solvent test and smash test with over bake.
As you said, the two cannot be combined as each is contradicting the other test.

It is totally ignored, that same product, from exactly same batches, all are used successfully by many, many others, world wide by hobbyists and commercial casters..
It is also seems totally ignored, that photographic and video proof was supplied to confirm, that what is being claimed and posted, is not supported with supply of credible supporting evidence.

It can be understood and accepted, that failures can occur. However, why those failures had occurred are totally being obscured, and, I doubt that it will be ever determined, or exposed, the real reasons why there are such failures occurring.

Sorry, but quite frankly, I am not interested in providing any further input.

I can be totally wrong, but it seems, that an on going alternate agenda is playing out here, it certainly seems that way to me.

[Petander]

Sorry, but quite frankly, I am not interested in providing any further input.

I can be totally wrong, but it seems, that an on going alternate agenda is playing out here, it certainly seems that way to me.

I see. Thanks anyway, I have not blamed the coating or you in any way all this time but you seem to take this personal.

I can't post a video of a dark baked bullet leaving marks in acetone cloth... It will be taken as badmouthing... It can be done when the baking temperature has been too low... Mine has been for two weeks... Oh man I thought we were on the same side somehow.

Over and out , sorry for all the trouble.

[Ausglock]

But... you can't overbake and still get wipeoff.... not possible.

I would really really like to see a vid of your process. Youtube it.

[HI-TEK]

I see. Thanks anyway, I have not blamed the coating or you in any way all this time but you seem to take this personal.

I can't post a video of a dark baked bullet leaving marks in acetone cloth... It will be taken as badmouthing... It can be done when the baking temperature has been too low... Mine has been for two weeks... Oh man I thought we were on the same side somehow.

Over and out , sorry for all the trouble.

Petander,
You did not blame coating, and you have not done so.

Yes, I am taking this on a personal level, at on going inferences, it seems, to me and others, an attempt to discredit coating and or results that can be obtained.
You had not communicated with me directly, asking for help, if you were experiencing problems, but, you opted to post your opinions and findings publically.
You posted extracts from this blog site that was 2 years old, and also posted US advertised problems solving errors, instead of relying on coating advice that I had supplied to you in great detail.

Despite many requests, you fail to provide any details of your processing , and you appear to refuse to accept advice from many that had contributed and supplied, and, further, despite that, you continue publishing coating failures with various implications.

As I have said, some do experience failures, I accept that, and failures are not critical of any one publishing failures.
Failures experienced, is not discouraging to me or any one else, and I take no offence.
As many have witnessed, for years, I also go an extra mile try to help to solve problems and satisfy users.

You were supplied a video of how coating is done at hobby level. You were supplied Video of smash test results, and, you were supplied pictures of coatings that you have, where results and smash tests are photographed, and no failures like you are constantly publishing.

I also sent you a PM, offering to try and help. No Reply received.
That says it all for me.

As Ausglock said, solvent test fail after over bake is not possible.
I cannot accept the excuse, of your not being to video solvent test results.
If solvent wipes colour produced after over bake, on a white paper wipe, can be photographed.
Video is not required.

What you and others may not have considered is, that after over bake, you may be simply wiping off fragile blisters of coating that formed, due to possibility of under drying, or, caused by another contamination that caused fine blister formation.
These blisters will rub off and end up as colour on white paper wipes.

Fully baked coating, or over baked coating is not soluble in the solvent. FULL STOP.

[dikman]

Petander, just a thought, do you have any pure lead that you can cast and coat a few with as test for your processes?

[Michael J. Spangler]

This could be a wild guess but are there any chances that when you’re wipe testing your baked bullets that there is some coating on your fingers? Or any dirt/soot from fluxing and casting?
I’ve splashed coating on my fingers and or had dirty hands from general lead handling and when I wipe tested I briefly mistakened the mess on the paper towel as unbaked coating. Since then I make sure that a hold a bullet in tongs or hold longer bullets by one end, making sure not to contact my fingers to the paper towel.
As stated above. Over baked and under cured do not happen together.

[Petander]

Gentlemen,thanks for the suggestions - now I have some success!

It is the oven.

It was the smell thing that helped. My bullets were undercooked despite all the metering whatsoever. My 1400 watt convection oven gives boolits that pass the tests... sort of... but when I extend the acetone test longer,say one minute,they fail even when baked longer and darker. The smell comes when you fire them undercooked. I thought the smell was just a normal thing.

I took my ancient 2500 Watt no-frills-oven from the warehouse,fired it up and baked normally. Even the looks are different now,I' m getting some gloss on the bullets.

Loaded up a pocketful,went shooting .358 size and look grandma no leading!

219933.

I think this oven belonged to my Grandma,this is from the 70's or so. Funny that I have had this all the time here, the "convection fan" got me big time.

[Gremlin460]

Unless they overbake the first coat and under bake the second , would give you dark apperance plus wipeoff. The second coat would have to be a very thin one. Just a suggestion




But... you can't overbake and still get wipeoff.... not possible.

I would really really like to see a vid of your process. Youtube it.

[dikman]

Glad you found the problem.

[Petander]

Glad you found the problem.

Thank you!

My wife used to make pottery, I learned it too while watching and helping.

I can take mud from the ground and make an item out of it,then bake it hard as a rock. Then I can bake colors and glass to the surface. Still got those powders and stuff,the crazy oven is gone.

About time I learn to bake a boolit.

[Petander]

Unless they overbake the first coat and under bake the second , would give you dark apperance plus wipeoff. The second coat would have to be a very thin one. Just a suggestion

Yep,pretty much that. My 1400 watt convection oven was giving uneven random results. I can test-wipe a bullet and it's fine. But the other one may not be.

I don't know made me buy an oven like that, they are too cheap... nothing cheap has ever worked for me. Well, live and learn again.

[dikman]

My 1400 watt convection oven was giving uneven random results.

I don't know made me buy an oven like that, they are too cheap

The obvious inference is that there's something wrong with the fan as it sounds like it's not circulating the heat evenly. As for the "cheap" oven, many on here are using cheap convection ovens with no problems :-?.

Do you have PID on the oven? While not absolutely necessary, they make it considerably easier to maintain a reasonably consistent temperature (which is fairly critical for getting good results).

[Stephen Cohen]

In answer to HI-TEK Joe, One can be sued for pointing out the short comings of a product or service in this country, just because one is right, your *** will still be in a sling if you publicly make it known. Having said that I was once against these coatings just shows my ignorance at the time, it was not HI-TEK that was at fault it was those using the product or their version of it. I am not an expert at using this product but can honestly say that any problems one has when using it, rests with the person using it, not the product. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

With the small fan ovens. I de-constructed mine and put more hook on the end of the fan blades. Bent them a few degrees in the direction of rotation. Vast improvement to air flow in the oven.
Have done the same to the fan in my converted Wall oven. But... It has a switch that turns the fan off when you open the door. This prevents too much heat being blown out when turning the trays.

[Petander]

More watts feels easy and right.

It stays at 200-205 even when I load 2# of boolits in there. The thermostat is very accurate.

[Petander]

This is not a bad oven, just not heavy duty.

219996

I have a big brick oven in my summer place. Tons of bricks. It takes a week to warm up to baking temp,never really hot. But the power must be half a million watts, I can bake nine dark rye breads in there at once, take them out in 45 minutes and bake another nine right after.

Think V8 vs 4 engine. Torque,not top speed or temp.

[Petander]

Ripe boolits are good boolits!

220026.

Overcooked on purpose, I had to start somewhere with the new oven.

Is this gloss something that should be here? I like the looks,shoots good.

[HI-TEK]

Ripe boolits are good boolits!

220026.

Overcooked on purpose, I had to start somewhere with the new oven.

Is this gloss something that should be here? I like the looks,shoots good.



This was posted several times previously. I have had reports, of projectile being in oven for weeks,, and it was burnt black, but shot great.
220028

[Ausglock]

Glossy is good.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Joe you got me thinking. I have some bullets that have been in the oven for a couple years.
I’m going to try to load them. Hahah. Can’t wait.

[HI-TEK]

Joe you got me thinking. I have some bullets that have been in the oven for a couple years.
I’m going to try to load them. Hahah. Can’t wait.

Michael,
That will be very interesting indeed.
I have never had an opportunity to see any coated alloy baked so long. What colours were they initially? I bet it is Burnt black.
The ones that were previously baked for 8 days, apparently were extremely slippery, and it was difficult to hang on to them.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Michael,
That will be very interesting indeed.
I have never had an opportunity to see any coated alloy baked so long. What colours were they initially? I bet it is Burnt black.
The ones that were previously baked for 8 days, apparently were extremely slippery, and it was difficult to hang on to them.

Older gold liquid not sure of the color. It came from Donnie 3 or 4 years back
Red copper
Black

They’re all jet black now. If any of them are still in a proper dimension and have not slumped I’ll load them and shoot them.

[HI-TEK]

Older gold liquid not sure of the color. It came from Donnie 3 or 4 years back
Red copper
Black

They’re all jet black now. If any of them are still in a proper dimension and have not slumped I’ll load them and shoot them.


If they are coated twice, and remained in oven, chances are that they are not sized. I don't know, but sizing may sort things out with shape changes.
I would be interested seeing some pictures as is, and also if you size them side by side. If all goes well, it may answer some questions about baking matters.

[Petander]

This was posted several times previously. I have had reports, of projectile being in oven for weeks,, and it was burnt black, but shot great.
220028

Sure I know that. I have read this all so many times. I pointed out the mistake in hiperformancebullets website. I have made many,too.

Lets repeat: 220046. I know this makes me the bad guy again.

Just saying I know they are overcooked so noone starts on that.

It must be my english,man. We don't communicate.

[Petander]

Glossy is good.

Exellent. I have never seen a Hi Tek bullet before you know. I don't know how they feel or rattle or smash just by looking at pics.

Sample boolits for stupid customers like me might be a good idea?


Here is a video, I have played in Oz. I'm the handsome one with lead guitar. :)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r-xRNZwQ3WQ

[slide]

I hope you are kidding. That video is full of satanic signs and symbols. Disgusting! If you are associated with that you and your video need to hit the road!

[lazs]

heavy metal is really really boring to me.. as is satanic stuff.. that being said.. she can smoke in my cars. Several companies sell HT coated bullets for you to check out.

lazs

[Petander]

Ouch. That is just an old swedish/finnish rock band I visited for one album. Entertainment only,nothing real. Freely in youtube.

Band name just happens to be OZ,I thought it was funny.

Admins are of course free to remove the link if it's inapproporiate.

Back to boolits:

I'm getting excellent results with the new oven. I knew this would be good but it's kinda mind boggling to see no leading at all. I can keep the temp 196-206 C manually for now. It won't drop lower when I load the boolits in.

Three range trips yesterday,one today.

220068

220069

[lazs]

What range are you shooting at? I went shooting yesterday with a friend.. we shot 44 mag and .357 and 9mm all HT except for some pc bullets. I put up shoot-n-wsee targets cause it was easy to see what was going on at 25 yards. I kept changing em when they got shot up with 10-12 rounds he was all upset I was spending money on targets LOL.. targets are cheap compared to club fees and gas to get there and time off and the ammo... everything performed well and we did shoot some clays on the berm and some adult beverage cans.. fun targets are better than not fun targets.

lazs

[Ausglock]

Metal is life.
Ozzie, AC/DC, Metallica, Judas Priest, Slayer, Rammstein, Etc etc..
I love me metal.

Current favourite tune...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04F4xlWSFh0

[Stephen Cohen]

Metal is life.
Ozzie, AC/DC, Metallica, Judas Priest, Slayer, Rammstein, Etc etc..
I love me metal.

Current favourite tune...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04F4xlWSFh0

I love mine too, as long as it is in a nice walnut stock. Regards Stephen

[Petander]

What range are you shooting at?
lazs

That was ten meters only. I adjusted the sights.

I shoot many ranges,25 meters being the standard. Clays@25 is fun! A large 2'x3' plate@75 is fun,too.

We have a competition next week, 25,50,75 and 100 meters.

I have lots of demonstration to do with Hi Tek, now that I got it sorted out. A gun shop owner smashed a bullet the other day,you should have seen his face. :)

I will give out small sample bags with some good bullets included. People have no idea about this around here.

220107.

These are air gun and BP projectiles at a 300 meter range. Air gun folks do cast and would benefit from Hi Tek.

[Petander]

I love mine too, as long as it is in a nice walnut stock. Regards Stephen

Hahaha!

I like all music,worked with it all. I come from traditional classical background.

Having used my own real name here since 2005, I'm not a troll or agent of any agenda really. It's my english that sometimes gives trouble,I may sound harsh whatsoever. Please bear with me.

It would be strange to get banned from a gun board for playing guitar.

[Ausglock]

Hmmm.... Exciting times ahead for HITEK Colours
I mixed and coated with 8 new colours last night.
Baking them tonight.

They tell me that the cowboy shooters like silver bullets?
Well.....Hi Ho Silver...Away..

Watch this space.....

[Tazza]

I had a guy ask me if i did silver too, he wanted silver cases and silver projectiles for western action.

Looking forward to seeing the colours you did.

I need to hit joe up for a colour chart, i'm using up the stuff i have, so i'll need to give some hi-tek a go in the not so distant future, just need to choose a purdy colour.

[Ausglock]

I have also tested a new sizing lube.
Aqualube 3000. I mixed 1.5mls to 250mls of Metho.
Sized a few 1000 44 cal 230gn RNFP last light. these are bloody hard to size. even with the old Aqualube 5000. They sailed through with the AL 3000. slight white powder on the bullets once the AL3000 drys. but nothing to detract from the appearance of the bullets.
I'll be using this from now on.
Joe now thinks he can do a powdered version to get away from the Hazmat shipping costs. I'll try it when he makes it and report here.

[HI-TEK]

I had a guy ask me if i did silver too, he wanted silver cases and silver projectiles for western action.

Looking forward to seeing the colours you did.

I need to hit joe up for a colour chart, i'm using up the stuff i have, so i'll need to give some hi-tek a go in the not so distant future, just need to choose a purdy colour.

Tazza,
There are lots of purdy colours. There are pictures of coated alloys available. That is best way to see how they turn out, as they show you two coats baked, smash tested.

[snscasting]

Anxiously awaiting pictures of silver.......

[lazs]

Ok... silver sounds pretty cool.. you should do a pink too for the ladies.. the 'problem' if there is a problem with HT coats is they rarely come out the color you thought they would.. in one respect that is what makes powder coat so cool.. lots of colors. shiny... I even did a mayan gold that is black with gold streaks.. I still like HT better tho. I ordered a convection oven to replace my black and decker toaster oven that the door is about to fall off on.

I think that PC is a tad more forgiving of the cooking process but not much.. I am eager to try the convection oven with HT.

lazs

[Petander]

Bronze would look good with nickel brass.

220205.

I had excellent 75 meter accuracy today.

My first oven was a major pain in all this, I had everything dialed and thought 3x15 min is the way to go. It was for a while,then I got carried away with alloys,sizes and powders and didn't notice that the oven thermostat had failed. I was undercooking all the time while trying new expander plugs etc.

Trusting my old load works just great with Hi Tek. Same everything except lube.

[Ausglock]

OK... Silver didn't work. It baked a light gold colour.
But... There is a sample here that on the first coat, looks just like a copper jacketed colour. You would swear they were Sierra Factory jacketed pills.
Baking the second coats tonight.

[Tazza]

Imitation jacketed isn't all bad, makes them look like factory ammo :)

[dansedgli]

I'm keen to see the new colours.

I just ordered a jar of Kryptonite Green to replace my black cherry. This looks the best out of the ones I've seen so far.

New toy arrived this week too. Not bad for $120 worth of raffle tickets for a good cause.

220214

[Ausglock]

Nice.
Ummm... I think you are out of luck on the Kryptonite Green.
It is Susan Island Bullets only in OZ that gets it.....

[dansedgli]

Nice.
Ummm... I think you are out of luck on the Kryptonite Green.
It is Susan Island Bullets only in OZ that gets it.....

Oh, I wonder what he'll send then. :???:

Is the brick red restricted too? They are the best 2 colours.

If you want I can tell people I am using yours. :P

[Tazza]

Nice.
Ummm... I think you are out of luck on the Kryptonite Green.
It is Susan Island Bullets only in OZ that gets it.....

All we need is your address... and to know when you order your next batch. Don't mind the guy in the ski mask digging through your letterbox, ok? :)

When I see the green projectiles at my club, i know who made 'em :) it's your trade mark.

[Ausglock]

You pair of funny Mongrels...:bigsmyl2:

If I wasn't using the KG, My next favourite would be the Candy Apple red. I love that.
Or the Red 122K, 122L. I think one of them is the Old Black Widow colour.
BW has gone to the red 254.

[Tazza]

HELPING :P

I'm partial to black, it looks neat, it's quite opaque so you can't see the lead under it and have people say ooh but the coating is too thin. With that said, i do like the metalic look i have seen on some colours.

I can't remember the brand, but there was a really nice metalic looking blue going around years ago. If they aren't still making projectiles, i wouldn't mind going for that colour. That plus the plain 'ol black.

[dansedgli]

They were old hawkesburies I think, around before I started shooting. Not very good coating but it looked nice.

The new black widow coating looks pretty good. Very bright and not as see through as their old one.

Whatever comes in the post is what I'll be using for the next 2 years anyway. I'm not so keen on having the prettiest bullets that I will buy a 2nd bottle and not use what I've got.

[HI-TEK]

HELPING :P

I'm partial to black, it looks neat, it's quite opaque so you can't see the lead under it and have people say ooh but the coating is too thin. With that said, i do like the metalic look i have seen on some colours.

I can't remember the brand, but there was a really nice metalic looking blue going around years ago. If they aren't still making projectiles, i wouldn't mind going for that colour. That plus the plain 'ol black.

Tazza,
With Blacks, there are options, Old Black which is similar to Hawkesbury stuff years ago, and there is Black K-15 and intensely Black, and then there is Texas Tea which is Black with Gold Flecks.

The anti-thin coating syndrome is alive and kicking. I don't know, but for some strange reason, people like thick coatings. That is OK, but with the Hi-Tek it is not needed for majority of applications. Other brands of coatings simply cannot be applied as a thin coating due to nature of materials used, or the process being used.

The Old Blue that was around from Hawkesbury was a Varnish tinted with Blue Dye, (NOT HI-TEK).
It was only partially cured, and if fully cured, the Blue would disappear. The Blue is a mysterious elusive beast.

[HI-TEK]

You pair of funny Mongrels...:bigsmyl2:

If I wasn't using the KG, My next favourite would be the Candy Apple red. I love that.
Or the Red 122K, 122L. I think one of them is the Old Black Widow colour.
BW has gone to the red 254.


There is an option of Blush Copper, which is quite nice, and Coppery glitter in the sun.
It probably is an option for those who want to be different.

[Petander]

Three thin coats here.

I have coated about 7000 bullets now in three weeks,have four colours. I made 100 ml / 20 grams of each colour.

Around halfway all that coating I added 10ml of denatured alcohol to one color to test,liked how it swirled and did the same to other colors.

Now I looked at the bottles and it looks like I have MORE coating left than when I started. :)


This lasts forever even with three coats.

220230

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Petander;4366741]Three thin coats here.

I have coated about 7000 bullets now in three weeks,have four colours. I made 100 ml / 20 grams of each colour.

Around halfway all that coating I added 10ml of denatured alcohol to one color to test,liked how it swirled and did the same to other colors.

Now I looked at the bottles and it looks like I have MORE coating left than when I started. :)


This lasts forever even with three coats.

Petander,
20gms added to 100mls Acetone produces roughly 110mls of mixture, (there is a volume increase)
Depending on volumes used, for example, if you use 3 lots of 5 mls to 250 projectiles, if my math is correct, you should be able to coat about 1800 projectiles with three coats with the 110 mls mixture, (20 grams of coating).
This equates to 0.011g coating per projectile.
This equates roughly to 90,000 for 1 kilo of Hi-Tek powder.

[lazs]

I like the krytonite green also and had no problem getting it here in California. Sometimes I will mix colors. do you see any problem in doing that?

lazs

[HI-TEK]

OK... Silver didn't work. It baked a light gold colour.
But... There is a sample here that on the first coat, looks just like a copper jacketed colour. You would swear they were Sierra Factory jacketed pills.
Baking the second coats tonight.


Some results on New Test Colours
220269
220270
220271

[Papercidal]

Some results on New Test Colours
220269
220270
220271

That new black is beautiful.

[Ausglock]

It's not black. It is a very Deep, Dark Purple. Looks black until you take them out into the sunlight.

The one that was a copper jacket colour went a dark copper after the second bake.
All samples passed the wipe and smash tests.

[dansedgli]

The purple one looks pretty good.

[HI-TEK]

Whatever comes in the post is what I'll be using for the next 2 years anyway. I'm not so keen on having the prettiest bullets that I will buy a 2nd bottle and not use what I've got.


You have Zombie Green coming. A good colour and a little darker than Kryptonite Green.
You can always start contract coating, that will keep you busy......

[Ausglock]

You have Zombie Green coming. A good colour and a little darker than Kryptonite Green.
You can always start contract coating, that will keep you busy......

Ha... He hasn't got time.
Dan is in training to beat JCL, Chris S and Damo at next years IPSC Nats... :bigsmyl2:

We Sponsor Damo.... BTW....

[dansedgli]

Yeah im not keen on doing that. Just in it to save a few $$$.

Going to try production next now that we have a few local GMs to play with.

[glockfan]

That new black is beautiful.

the silver something....very,very nice

[lazs]

All my bullets come out much darker than 'normal' I suppose. I tend to cook the last coat for a good 20 minutes and then dump in water. Most come out a kind of root beer color which is fine with me.. in the sun of course you can see what color they really are.

Sooo... was using a cheap toaster oven for a few years... finally the door gave up the ghost. I ordered a Hamilton convection oven... it is a little larger but has a convection feature/fan.... I tested it yesterday... put the thermometer in it and was surprised at how long it took to get up to temp. the little toaster oven took like 5 minutes... this is more like 10 or more... I think it is because of the fan and it being bigger. but the temp held very steady for 30 minutes and the dial was only off maybe 10 degrees. I have not baked any coatings in it yet but expect good results so long as I make sure to warm it up first.

lazs

[HI-TEK]

more Test sample
220324

[Ausglock]

Is anyone here a fan of the Deadpool movies???
Well... Here is my Deadpool coating.
2 Coats of Red 254
1 coat of Black K15.
https://i.imgur.com/k01swjo.jpg

[HI-TEK]

Is anyone here a fan of the Deadpool movies???
Well... Here is my Deadpool coating.
2 Coats of Red 254
1 coat of Black K15.
https://i.imgur.com/k01swjo.jpg

WOW, that is a weird colour. Does it pass smash?

[Ausglock]

Sure does.
Pass Wipe and Smash tests...

[dikman]

Way to go Trev! I'd like to see the PC brigade do that.....

[Grmps]

OK, I dabble in PC also
https://i.imgur.com/jKGcoQk.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/qBEMBDv.png
https://i.imgur.com/ZzAy0gB.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/ZdO1bz0.png
https://i.imgur.com/dpX8Qc3.png

[Ausglock]

Nice, Grmps

[HI-TEK]

OK, I dabble in PC also
https://i.imgur.com/jKGcoQk.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/qBEMBDv.png
https://i.imgur.com/ZzAy0gB.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/ZdO1bz0.png
https://i.imgur.com/dpX8Qc3.png

Grmps
I am envious with those colours, can't do that with Hi-Tek

[Tazza]

Joe - Time to get your thinking cap on to get those fancy colours :)

I know some people want pretty colours for their bullets, but at the end of the day, we all just want something that won't lead up our barrels and keep us away from lead when loading.

AusGlock - awesome deadpool projectiles there :)

[lazs]

One of my favorite colors for PC is mayan gold. it looks black but has gold streaks in it. Sorta subtle in the house lights but really shows up in the sun..

lazs

[lazs]

I posted this in another thread but thought it might be of interest here... basically I talked to the editor of Handloader mag a some time back about coated bullets . very nice guy... listened well and asked good questions... anyway... this just happened yesterday.

Wow.. just as I finish writing the above my new issue of Handloader comes in. The June issue. and missouri bullet gets one mention and one full article... then mention is on MP molds and the article is Venturio doing a test of about 5 caliber of MB Hi-Tek coated bullets. He uses a few not very accurate handguns and some real good ones... he uses only one bullet weight for each caliber except 9mm I believe... that is fine.. only one or two loads all pretty much full tilt.

Anyway.. he gets some pretty good results. He admits that some guns with mismatched throat/barrel dia that did not shoot well before all of a sudden got some good groups. most groups ran around 2" at 25 yards from a ransom rest but I am sure even the poor performing ones could do better with some different loadings.

What would have made the test better in my opinion would have been if he had shot the same bullets and loads from the same guns in both conventional lube/size and the HT coat ones to compare... and... if he had actually mentioned no smoke and how easy the guns cleaned up... he pretty much just says that when he is feeling lazy he might use the MB HT bullets... oh well... baby steps right?

Again.. call me cynical but..... Missouri Bullet is advertising their HT coated bullets in the mag.

lazs

[Avenger442]

I noticed the article, too. Was wondering, since I'm not familiar with them, if Missouri Bullets were Hi Tek coated. I had sent a request, I think to this magazine, a few months back when they had covered PC bullets that they have a look at Hi Tek. Didn't notice any mention of Hi Tek in this article.

[Grmps]

Trevor, I have to try your Deadpool coating.2 Coats of Red 254 1 coat of Black K15.on my next batch of HT

Joe, HiTeks advantages far outweigh its color limitations.

[OldBearHair]

After muddling around with cookie cutter style coating, then Lee Alox swirling in a bucket then standing on end 24 hours to dry and making up a ton of homemade bullet lube and with all the dies getting full of it, I finally found Hi-Tek Gold. And when I reorder, it will be Hi-Tek Gold. No need for anything else. Oh, maybe Hi-Tek Copper.

[dikman]

There'll be no going back for you now, OBH.

Ok Grmps, I'll have to concede that you've made spotty PC boolits (although to me they look like coatings that haven't worked right :kidding:) BUT can you PC the Deadpool coating? It's got me intrigued a bit now, wondering what I can do with the meagre supply of colours that I have.

[Ausglock]

I have done a Camo coating before.
2 coats of red copper with one coat of Dark green.
Also done a reverse Texas tea.
2 coats of Black with 1 coat of Gold1035 over the top.
Did an Aussie Green N Gold
2 coats of Kryptonite with 1 coat of Gold 1035 on top.
Did these for Australia Day.

[dansedgli]

My zombie green should arrive today so I'll do some coating tonight. I can hear my wife complaining already.

[dansedgli]

Zombie green in the house.

This colour looks so nice. 1 cooked coat, 1 freshly applied.
220382

2 coats cooked.
220383

Smashy smashy.
220385

Maybe a bit dark compared to some photos I've seen. It's dark in my shed though and under flouros.

Same mix and cooking as before with black cherry. 20g/100mls acetone. 4 mls per 2kg. 10 minutes at 200 degrees celsius.

[lazs]

In the article in question.. he mentions about half way down on the first column of the first page of the article that the bullets are Hi-Tek coated.. he also said that he had never seen such a thing.... I mean.. seriously? the guy shoots lots of gas operated guns with ports and such and has to clean all the bullet lube out of em and never sought a solution?

lazs

[HI-TEK]

Zombie green in the house.

This colour looks so nice. 1 cooked coat, 1 freshly applied.
220382

2 coats cooked.
220383

Smashy smashy.
220385

Maybe a bit dark compared to some photos I've seen. It's dark in my shed though and under flouros.

Same mix and cooking as before with black cherry. 20g/100mls acetone. 4 mls per 2kg. 10 minutes at 200 degrees celsius.

dansedgli
You have done very well. These look great.
Just an observation, on the last cooked tray, seems to indicate on some being a tad more Tan than rest. I am wondering if you may have had a hot spot area where these cooked a bit harder, or is it shadow on picture? Irrespective, I think that they are great and you are doing well with having this one the first time to use.
The way you are going, you will out do Ausglock......

[Avenger442]

I have to admit I do not have a subscription and was just reading over it in the book store while waiting on the wife. Not surprised I missed the mention of Hi Tek.

Started coating for the single coat test this week. I've always wanted to try this. If you can put one coat of Hi Tek on a bullet and it still perform pretty much the same you can use less coating time and effort. After baking that single coat, sizing and installing gas check I will let the bullets sit about two weeks to bring BHN back up. BHN two weeks from cast is about 13. Will load them for the .308 to about 2600-2700 fps and see what happens. The coating is some old left over 1035 Gold mixed several months ago. Well shaken not bruised by stirring.:smile:

Found something interesting in some of the old mixed coatings as I was shaking them up and deciding which one I would use. Some of you guys may remember some test colors I did with yellow, orange and dark green. That was about a year ago. They have been sitting around mixed on the floor of my basement and last night I decided to add a little acetone and shake them. They all have been kept in liquid dish washing detergent bottles with snap shut lids and a bullet agitator in the bottom. The orange and the yellow, after long vigorous shaking, began to mix again. The dark green had formed a skin on the bottom of the bottle similar to what you see on the surface of a can of old paint. It was gradually breaking down after long period of shaking but not sure I will attempt to use it. They all, including the 1035 Gold, had turned dark in the bottles and had deposited some of the coating on the sides. I have shot coatings that have been mixed for several months, I think six months was the oldest, with no problems with performance or any leading. I believe all of them darkened over time so colors would not be the same. If you are going to use some old mixed, be ready to shake it long and hard.

One other thing. I had one mixed old batch that the solvent had evaporated out of it completely. Not sure how old it was. But is was stored in one of those restaurant type squeeze bottles bought at Wall Mart so it had to be over a year. I swapped to the detergent bottles over a year ago. It had a snap on lid at the tip but was not tight enough to keep the solvent from evaporating.

[HI-TEK]

One other thing. I had one mixed old batch that the solvent had evaporated out of it completely. Not sure how old it was. But is was stored in one of those restaurant type squeeze bottles bought at Wall Mart so it had to be over a year.

Avenger,
If you added some Acetone to this dried up lot, if you can dissolve it, please try to coat with it.
It will be very dark coating, but I am interested to see if it continues to work after such storage.
In theory, it should work as it has not been heat exposed. Sunlight will darken both liquids and powders with time. Powders seem to be affected at surface of containers but the rest remains OK.