simple Hi-Tek coating

[TyMarkle]

Hey Fellas, I'm new to this site but have been following it trying to get everything figured out. I actually watched one of Grems videos that lead me to this site. Anyway, Just today I started off on page 1 of this post reading 1 through about 3 pages and then I figured to just jump ahead to get to the conclusion. After reading Frankd's post and WOW just scrolling up and seeing his last one, I thought I should inform you guys with a little bit of more information for information with information. Did you know when you cast lead Boolits your actually pulling in all sorts of foreign debris and then shoving them down your barrels?? You see lead when cooling has a very high sucking degree when doing so. Just the other day I had a batch cool and it sucked in cat hair from 3 houses down!! Cat hair hardens and becomes a very hard alloy after coming in contact with lead. NASA used cat hair in all of there Space Shuttles and missions to Mars!! I know I was there!! Lead will also suck in Bull $%!+ from wright out of your mouth. In some instances it's sucked in so much that it actually changed the color of the lead. Just ask Frandk.. He's had this happen twice!! It's actually were the phrase... shooting the $%!+ came from!! Anyway. now that I have cracked my first post, ie popped my cherry!! I really feel like a guru of all metals and of course Hi-Tek bullet coating. I should probably log off now cause big Bro is probably watching me through that lil hole in my computer. Ha, especially since I let the cat outta the bag, errr! ;) I actually got on here to order my first batch and give it ago, could someone point me to the best site for doing so? Thanks for all of your posts sharing your info and Technic. Ty

[runfiverun]

Ty
first welcome to the site.
Second that was a good post.
Third go right to hi-tek himself to get the stuff.

Now a little admonishment about the language.

[TyMarkle]

noted and edited!! Thanks!

[Ausglock]

Or contact Gateway bullets or Bayou Bullets.
They sell the HITEK liquid and DRYTEK Powder.

Come on, Frankd. put up or shutup.

You are Obama having a day off from work?

[klcarroll]

............You are Obama having a day off from work?



Uhmmm....... Errrrr........

Ausglock; the more days Mr. Obama spends away from work, the better off we are up here!

[Ausglock]

Frankd.
HI-TEK has been tested by the Australian EPA for airborne lead and particulates and passed with flying colours.
Not trying to steal HITEK Joe's thunder, but exhaustive work has been carried out at numerous government labs in Europe and HITEK is the only bullet coating to be approved for use by law enforcement and military in Europe.

This coating has been in use in Australia for over 20 years. I have seen Glock 17 used by tourists at indoor ranges that have round counts into the millions... yes... millions. the bore of the barrels are perfect. the chambers are worm from the brass and the throats are worn from the gas cutting. the barrel hoods are peened from the functioning of the gun.

I would really like to see your documentation.
I have been shooting coated bullets since 1997 in numerous guns with no signs of adverse wear.

You come across as a disgruntled chemist that tried to copy HITEK coatings and failed, and now want the MSDS and Tech data sheets to try and cheat Joe out of his coating.
Do you even cast and coat, Bro?

[Moonman]

Frankd,

We need to hit the IGNORE button for YOU buddy.
I've been using HI-TEK for a couple years, both self coat
and commercial coated projectiles purchased.
Works outstanding for me and the others I've introduced it to.

Frankd,
I see your other LIMITED POSTS were telling casters HOW TO RUN THEIR BUSINESS,
FLAKE OFF TROLL!

[Gremlin460]

Grem good video. Where do you get your tubs?

Locally from a plastics outlet, I bought 2 boxes of 1000 w/lids, to store parts for work in.. they are cheap as in bulk.

[kryogen]

Who the hell is that frankd dude? He sure looks like someone who runs a business that is losing money to hi tek. Some frustrated dude of some sort i guess. Like a guy that sells regular lubes or lubed boolits. Jeez. The kind of guy that would want a warning danger message etched on cars bla bla bla.... Go whine elsewhere.

Epa, ffl, msds, who the hell cares about that? You mean the papers that i toss in the fireplace without reading first when i buy something usa made? Like what, swallowing hi tek powder or coated boolits is harmful to babies?

hey you know what? Even if after 25 000 rounds my glock barrel is worn, ill just buy another one and i will have saved like 2000$ over jacketed bullets so i could care less.
Did you at least ban his ip so he doesnt come back with another name every day?

[ioon44]

4 coats of the dry gold, scraped off with my fingernail. Passed the other tests. Freshly cast boolits. Never had a problem with the liquid green. Will try with green & then gold today - open topped.

I tried to scraped off Red Copper powder & liquid Black with my fingernail, didn't even come close to scraping it off and these are boolits that fail the smash test.

[popper]

Foggy memory going back a year when I first started using the green for pistol ( I haven't had a problem with the green since the first batch). I mixed the liquid in a washed & dried coke bottle. Changed to a washed & dried mustard squeeze bottle. Used the coke bottle this time for first trial with the powder. Hmmm, some contamination? Water is polar, no net charge but a dipole that sticks to metal - so drying - getting rid of the water is very important. Rewired the toaster oven so the fan and 2 elements come on, uncontrolled but get ~200F. Maybe that will help with the water elimination. As I US clean brass that should dry it too on theses cold damp days. Oh, it was 70f when I did first coats, only got to 30's today. I'll cook them & then powder coat some tomorrow.
Yes, survives all the tests EXCEPT the fingernail. Smash test did not show any flakes of coating when brushed after smashing.

[Rodvan]

Everyone except Frankd: I won't know for sure until I shoot a few rounds, but I coated some more 9's and 40's my way and these sob's are hard! I even coated a few that I had sized before coating (sizer was scraping coating off) and 50 out of a 100 passed the scratch test so I think I'm on the right track. I'm guessing the cold temps may affect the coating some how, just guessing. What doesn't work for me is the 1ml to 1 pound ratio and tumbling with the lid off waiting for the sound to change. The bullets look dull and very dry kinda chalky lookin. This process may work when it's warm so I'll try it this summer but for now this works best for me; same 1ml to 1 pound ratio, shake bullets with lid on for 20 seconds or so and put on tray. Lid on gives the coating a smooth glossy finish, lid off is dull and rough.
Anyways, I'm pretty dang happy-I just hope it doesn't lead my barrel...
I'll post a video tomorrow show my results. Thanks for the help, Rod

[HI-TEK]

Foggy memory going back a year when I first started using the green for pistol ( I haven't had a problem with the green since the first batch). I mixed the liquid in a washed & dried coke bottle. Changed to a washed & dried mustard squeeze bottle. Used the coke bottle this time for first trial with the powder. Hmmm, some contamination? Water is polar, no net charge but a dipole that sticks to metal - so drying - getting rid of the water is very important. Rewired the toaster oven so the fan and 2 elements come on, uncontrolled but get ~200F. Maybe that will help with the water elimination. As I US clean brass that should dry it too on theses cold damp days. Oh, it was 70f when I did first coats, only got to 30's today. I'll cook them & then powder coat some tomorrow.
Yes, survives all the tests EXCEPT the fingernail. Smash test did not show any flakes of coating when brushed after smashing.

Hi Popper,
Both the liquid, and powdered versions after mixing with Acetone/dissolving, do attract moisture.
Acetone evaporating also chills coatings and alloys which tends to cause moisture condensations, and can be trapped below a dry skin that forms with drying.
In cold/damp conditions, such moisture absorbing may be more problematic.
If there is moisture trapped below a dry feel coating, as it is introduced into the oven, the heat will make a super heated vapour, that is trapped between dry surface skin and cold alloy.
This can lead onto rough finishes, blistering at worst scenario, and poor or no bonding to alloy.
The main culprit can be with first Key coat, that needs to be bonded well, before application of second and or third coats.
If first coat does not pass all tests for adhesion it is a wasted effort and materials to add more coatings, as it wont fix adhesion problems with first coat..
Best results for first coat is with a thin coating, (almost a stain) and which is dried well first before baking.
Once first coat is bonded well, subsequent coats will bond to first coat well to get the smooth shiny finish that is also "pretty".
Coatings should be very difficult to scratch off with finger nails. It is suggesting to me that coatings were not adequately bonded to alloy if you can remove coatings with finger nails.
Even sizing a few, after baked first coat, should reveal any adhesion problems.
Thanks for your postings.

[Ausglock]

I wash my mix bottles with metho to remove and juice/water that is left in them.

Coating with the lid off:....Only swirl them for like 15 20 seconds and pour them onto the tray. they will still be slightly wet. they should not be dry or they will be blotchy and rough textured.

Sizing before coating will close the pores of the metal and can prevent the coating bonding into the alloy.
As for multiple coats.
The bullets I am using to test the experimental coating used to get melted down and re-cast. But I am now coating them with Liquid Black.
So, 2 coats of experimental. if they like horrible colour or fail the wipe, I size them and them apply 2 coats of black. then size again. this way I don't have to melt and re-cast. 4 coats baked and pass the wipe and smash test, no worries.

[Rodvan]

I know you're not supposed to size before coating but with the bad luck I had I figured I might as well give it a try. Anyways I got 50 good bullets.

[kryogen]

Im in florida all week guys so i cant test some more with all the hints from you all.
will try next monday... Until then, its more like 27 tomorrow instead of -33 at home... =)

Since i have nothing else to do i guess ill go to disney world again tomorow.

Then work training for the rest of the week. At least the weather is quite nice here.

[Avenger442]

No casting or coating here today,
IT'S MINUS 17 DEGREES F PRESENTLY!

It hasn't been this cold here in 50 years, a record for today.

Dang man made global warming is killing my work too. Iced over here. :redneck:

[HI-TEK]

Dang man made global warming is killing my work too. Iced over here. :redneck:

Noooooo... you got it wrong, we are now told by our pollies, that it is "Climate Change" and we need to pay taxes to stop this happening, and stop us changing the climate.....
I dont know, but am a non believer.......
Sorry for my rant... it does not belong here...

[TheDoctor]

Thought it was caused by all the sheep farting down there.....

[HI-TEK]

Thought it was caused by all the sheep farting down there.....

Is this sheep phenomena not in New Zealand??? We have Sheep, and many Cows down here, and many many Kangaroos, not to mention Drop Bears.....lol lol
All that Gas, no wonder we are having problems...lol...lol...

[Ausglock]

Drop Bears are Evil!!!
More evil than the ISIS retards.
Drop bears tear your head off, not hack it off...

Now... I have a little experiment.
I have a few 1000 coated bullets that have been sized using the HITEK aqualube sizing lube.
The coating has been damaged on the nose of the bullets while setting up a Magma Auto sizer with collator.
I am going to swirl them in Acetone and allow to dry. Then apply another coat and bake to see if it will bond or smash off.

Thoughts????? anyone?????

[HI-TEK]

Drop Bears are Evil!!!
More evil than the ISIS retards.
Drop bears tear your head off, not hack it off...

Now... I have a little experiment.
I have a few 1000 coated bullets that have been sized using the HITEK aqualube sizing lube.
The coating has been damaged on the nose of the bullets while setting up a Magma Auto sizer with collator.
I am going to swirl them in Acetone and allow to dry. Then apply another coat and bake to see if it will bond or smash off.

Thoughts????? anyone?????

Mad Scientist Ausglock.....
All you first need to do is, try to coat as is.
I doubt that you will have any effect with washing with solvent.
It may be a waste of time to wash.
Simply try to coat a few as is and see what happens.
If it works, do the rest.
If it does not it may be a re-melt.
Sorry, but Aqualube does embed into surfaces, as it is sub Micron in particle size, some 20-30 Nanometers in size..

[popper]

Ok, heat drying for 1 hr at 180 in the oven seems to work fine. Passes the tests, no scraping off with the fingernail, color is good. One more coat and then to size. First coat green (mixed a long time ago) on half, gold the other half. Second is gold. PC batch in the oven now.

[HI-TEK]

Ok, heat drying for 1 hr at 180 in the oven seems to work fine. Passes the tests, no scraping off with the fingernail, color is good. One more coat and then to size. First coat green (mixed a long time ago) on half, gold the other half. Second is gold. PC batch in the oven now.

Hi Popper,
Interesting results but is normal and predictable.
Cure must reach around 180C to work OK, but takes longer time to cure at 180C.
Reason why many run around 200C is, to increase production rates as cooking takes less time at those temperatures.
Downside is that at 200C and over, it is easier to over cook if left too long, and time in oven is more critical, and, colour can suffer by darkening. It should still work OK, despite colour change
Would be happy to get your results with your method of processing.

[popper]

I dried at ~180F for an hour, then cranked up to 380F 10 min. for curing. Won't scratch now.

[HI-TEK]

I dried at ~180F for an hour, then cranked up to 380F 10 min. for curing. Won't scratch now.

That seems OK. You should be able to get away with temperatures to dry at about 100F for same time period.
To speed things up if required, cast can be pre-warmed to about 90-100F before coating.
Residual heat in alloy will help drying quickly.
I am not sure if long drying time at 180F will affect any other parameter or not. You are first to try that method, so I am sure many will be quite interested in your findings, especially in the colder areas in the US and Europe.
Keep up the good work

[Sticky]

I haven't had a chance to really fire test any of my coated casts yet, but I have been working with the HiTek powder and my method has worked well so far in winter conditions (tho usually pretty dry) in my unheated garage.

I turn my little toaster oven on and stick a pyrometer lead in where the bottom of the wire tray sits(I hook it under the wire tray) and let the oven get warm and calibrated to about 400F. I set a tray of boolits to be coated on top of the oven. I set a 4" electrical box I had layin on the bench one day as I was coating and experimenting and then set my tray of boolits on that (just an inch or so above the heating toaster oven). This prewarms the alloy a bit for me.

I then coat with usually a 1:5 mix (but I will try a 1:6 for accuracy comparison soon) which has been mixed and sat for an hour as suggested. I mix it up good, take by tub o boolits and dispense a given amount in with an eye dropper that drops about 1ml per. I am somewhere about 5mls for a few handfuls of boolits (I have a teeny toaster oven, so I can only run about 50 rifle, perhaps 75 or so pistol boolits at one time). I have been using an open top container, swirling just short of drying (once the coating looks pretty evenly coated on them all (about 10-15secs)) and dumping them on the tray.

I put the tray back atop the oven as I did for prewarming (remember, it's probably barely freezing temps in my garage) and let them sit there for at least 15 or so mins. Then I pop em in the oven, takes about 5 mins to get back up to temp and settle in and I give em 15mins after that, usually 20mins from the time I stick em in, til the time I pull em out.

Set them aside to cool and run the next tray (usually doing 3 or so trays at a time) through the same cycle. Coat twice and size.

Only issue I have had, was a sizer taking some coating off, but.... I realized when that happened, that is was the die casting out of rounds, due to the pins not being tight in the mold half, so there was about a .001" offset at the mould line that was causing some flaking at that offset of the boolit halves. I have fixed the mold, but it's been sub 20's this week and I ain't bravin it to cast and coat again in those temps... LOL

I don't think it was a coating issue, as I have not had this happen even with boolits that were coated and squeezed pretty good by the sizer.

Good to know it won't hurt to 'overcook', as I did a few long bake times on a recent batch while working on my truck.. bad idea.. The coating came out a bit darker than normal, but passed the tests fine.

A big thanks to Ausglock and HI-TEK for all their input and assistance to others on this thread. Really liking my Red/Copper so far! Now, make it warm a bit so I can bear some range time and test these things out!

[HI-TEK]

I haven't had a chance to really fire test any of my coated casts yet, but I have been working with the HiTek powder and my method has worked well so far in winter conditions (tho usually pretty dry) in my unheated garage.

I turn my little toaster oven on and stick a pyrometer lead in where the bottom of the wire tray sits(I hook it under the wire tray) and let the oven get warm and calibrated to about 400F. I set a tray of boolits to be coated on top of the oven. I set a 4" electrical box I had layin on the bench one day as I was coating and experimenting and then set my tray of boolits on that (just an inch or so above the heating toaster oven). This prewarms the alloy a bit for me.

I then coat with usually a 1:5 mix (but I will try a 1:6 for accuracy comparison soon) which has been mixed and sat for an hour as suggested. I mix it up good, take by tub o boolits and dispense a given amount in with an eye dropper that drops about 1ml per. I am somewhere about 5mls for a few handfuls of boolits (I have a teeny toaster oven, so I can only run about 50 rifle, perhaps 75 or so pistol boolits at one time). I have been using an open top container, swirling just short of drying (once the coating looks pretty evenly coated on them all (about 10-15secs)) and dumping them on the tray.

I put the tray back atop the oven as I did for prewarming (remember, it's probably barely freezing temps in my garage) and let them sit there for at least 15 or so mins. Then I pop em in the oven, takes about 5 mins to get back up to temp and settle in and I give em 15mins after that, usually 20mins from the time I stick em in, til the time I pull em out.

Set them aside to cool and run the next tray (usually doing 3 or so trays at a time) through the same cycle. Coat twice and size.

Only issue I have had, was a sizer taking some coating off, but.... I realized when that happened, that is was the die casting out of rounds, due to the pins not being tight in the mold half, so there was about a .001" offset at the mould line that was causing some flaking at that offset of the boolit halves. I have fixed the mold, but it's been sub 20's this week and I ain't bravin it to cast and coat again in those temps... LOL

I don't think it was a coating issue, as I have not had this happen even with boolits that were coated and squeezed pretty good by the sizer.

Good to know it won't hurt to 'overcook', as I did a few long bake times on a recent batch while working on my truck.. bad idea.. The coating came out a bit darker than normal, but passed the tests fine.

A big thanks to Ausglock and HI-TEK for all their input and assistance to others on this thread. Really liking my Red/Copper so far! Now, make it warm a bit so I can bear some range time and test these things out!

Hi Sticky,
Thanks for your blog.
I have heard from a few users, who have webbing or not so good casts, and they told me that they coat once, then size, and then re-coat a second time.
Any rough edges/burrs are removed with sizing, and areas exposed are then covered with second coat.
Sometimes they do not need to re-size after second coat, and will depend on bore diameter and diameter when fished.
It works well and they get nice products.
Keep up good work.
I would be happy to send you some of our heat, we have plenty here, it is awful.
We love cooler months in Fall and winter. We don't get the severe cold you folks get.

[runfiverun]

Frank earned himself a bunch of points and a little vacation.
Some day's I run short on patience.
They just happened to coincide with the day's he was posting.
Or maybe it was his attitude. Not sure.

[Ausglock]

Frank earned himself a bunch of points and a little vacation.
Some day's I run short on patience.
They just happened to coincide with the day's he was posting.
Or maybe it was his attitude. Not sure.

I knew there was something about you that I liked.....[smilie=s: :bigsmyl2:

[HI-TEK]

Frank earned himself a bunch of points and a little vacation.
Some day's I run short on patience.
They just happened to coincide with the day's he was posting.
Or maybe it was his attitude. Not sure.

Thanks for your patience.
Most disturbing attitude.
I was amazed to what extent he continued with his allegations.
It became obvious, that many other folk were upset by him.
Just to provide assurances, no materials like was described, is used in any product.
It was clear to me that he was fishing for data/information of product composition, as their combined "experts", were unable to determine/identify accurately, what they were looking at.
Unfortunately, over the years, I have been "work hardened" by such folk.
Thanks again your kind considerations.

[Sticky]

Frank earned himself a bunch of points and a little vacation.
Some day's I run short on patience.
They just happened to coincide with the day's he was posting.
Or maybe it was his attitude. Not sure.As and admin on another active, though unrelated site, I can relate... well done.. LOL

[Avenger442]

Only issue I have had, was a sizer taking some coating off, but.... I realized when that happened, that is was the die casting out of rounds, due to the pins not being tight in the mold half, so there was about a .001" offset at the mould line that was causing some flaking at that offset of the boolit halves. I have fixed the mold, but it's been sub 20's this week and I ain't bravin it to cast and coat again in those temps... LOL

Know what you mean about the weather. We are normally in the 50s for a high and 30s for lows this time of the year. High this week has been 39 and the lows will get in the single digits. When the wind is blowing a little while outside is very uncomfortable.

Some time ago I had the same problem during sizing. Lee push through was peeling the coating. Ausglock suggested that the die be polished. After I did that no more problem. In fact have gone back and polished the inside of all my sizing dies with Dremel tool, wool tip and good metal polish.

Your right everyone who is intent on helping us beginners on Castboolits deserves to be complimented. No telling how much time they have saved me figuring out a problem.

[HI-TEK]

Know what you mean about the weather. We are normally in the 50s for a high and 30s for lows this time of the year. High this week has been 39 and the lows will get in the single digits. When the wind is blowing a little while outside is very uncomfortable.

Some time ago I had the same problem during sizing. Lee push through was peeling the coating. Ausglock suggested that the die be polished. After I did that no more problem. In fact have gone back and polished the inside of all my sizing dies with Dremel tool, wool tip and good metal polish.

Your right everyone who is intent on helping us beginners on Castboolits deserves to be complimented. No telling how much time they have saved me figuring out a problem.

Thanks for your post.
I agree with you. There is so much knowledge and depth of experience on this site that it is amazing.
It is a unique experience for me, as In Aus, down under,, we have some very experienced folk, like Ausglock, but I dont have the opportunity to exchange ideas with many such folk, such as concentrated on this blog site.
I feel very grateful to have such exchanges and ideas shared as here.
We are very isolated here with many aspects of guns and equipment, as available in US, as here, we are very restricted.
You guys constantly seem to be able to really expand ideas in many new directions.
It is great. And, all benefit from such exchanges.
Thanks much to all who contribute.

[Sticky]

Know what you mean about the weather. We are normally in the 50s for a high and 30s for lows this time of the year. High this week has been 39 and the lows will get in the single digits. When the wind is blowing a little while outside is very uncomfortable.

Some time ago I had the same problem during sizing. Lee push through was peeling the coating. Ausglock suggested that the die be polished. After I did that no more problem. In fact have gone back and polished the inside of all my sizing dies with Dremel tool, wool tip and good metal polish.

Your right everyone who is intent on helping us beginners on Castboolits deserves to be complimented. No telling how much time they have saved me figuring out a problem.

Thanks Avenger, I recall reading that post by Ausglock and will try that out on my sizing dies, especially the .358 that was shaving coating. I really think it was the boolits as they were dropping poorly as I got the mold running. The mold halves had some play once I went back after things cooled down and investigated a little more, causing the boolits to drop with about a thou or two offset at the mold joint. Sure won't hurt to smooth out those sizers tho! I like your idea of polishing with a dremel versus using sandpaper or similar abrasives, I'll give that a try today.

I am a beginner in this endeavor and I know I have a lot to learn from practical experience, but it sure is nice to have others helping me learn the techniques and help troubleshoot issues as I make my way down the Silver Path!!

[klcarroll]

Frank earned himself a bunch of points and a little vacation.
Some day's I run short on patience.
They just happened to coincide with the day's he was posting.
Or maybe it was his attitude. Not sure.


Thank you Sir!!

I am sure that your actions were both well considered and just.

......Personally, after his second or third post, I was beginning to think in terms of a Drone Strike. (....But that's just the kind of tolerant, forgiving person I am.)


KLC

[Ausglock]

Thank you Sir!!

I am sure that your actions were both well considered and just.

......Personally, after his second or third post, I was beginning to think in terms of a Drone Strike. (....But that's just the kind of tolerant, forgiving person I am.)


KLC


KLC. I find your response to be very measured and considerate.
As for polishing sizer dies. The dremel is great for down in the die with a wool tip and polish (I use Mothers).

I spin new dies in the lathe and bevel the opening with the dremel and a grinding wheel. then polish this with fine wet N Dry paper and oil.

I have a mold that leaves a slight fin up the side of the bullet when the 2 halves meet. I coat once, size and then coat the 2nd time to cover the lead exposed by sizing.
I also do this for flat base bullets as they can have flashing at the base.

[Red Ork]

131349131350

First test coating. Using 'Brick Red' from Donnie at 5-1-8 mix. I had actually mixed a bottle of coating and then had to leave it sit 4 or 5 days, but it seemed fine when I shook it up even thought I didn't have a cap for the squeeze bottle so it wasn't air tight.

147 gr. 2 coats then sized to .356 and baked in commercial convection oven at 400 (f) for 9 minutes. Passed hammer and acetone wipe tests.
I gave a few a third coat and left in for 12 minutes and they got a shade darker; but still not as dark/maroon as the "red" ones Donnie sells. Sorry didnt get pics of those ones.

Gonna do a few more (160 gr, 230 gr) before i get a chance to hit the range, this way I can test fire a few calibers a once.

[Ausglock]

Looks good.
Well done.

[Recluse]

Frank earned himself a bunch of points and a little vacation.


I, for one, am hoping it is a big vacation--THE big vacation.

We don't need the likes of him around here ever again.

I'm pretty resistant to change. I don't have a smart phone, have had the same pickup for over twenty years, don't like plastic guns, don't like black guns. . .

But what Hi-Tek and Ausglock bring to the table is staggering. I've been working with their powders and finally got to shoot some Hi-Tek coated boolits this week. The results exceeded my expectations.

No, we don't need the likes of Frank around here.

:coffee:

[TyMarkle]

Hey fellas, went to finally order Hi-tek just now and see you can purchase either powder or a solution. Being that the powder looks like it will save me a few bucks I think i'm leaning that way, but wanted to ask you if I need a catalyst for the powder or not. I see a catalyst mentioned in one set of instructions but not for the one with powder. I'm confused...... Zombie Green. Thanks for your help, Ty

[TyMarkle]

Ordering through Gateway,unless you guys have a source that I can receive it through quicker.

[HI-TEK]

Hey fellas, went to finally order Hi-tek just now and see you can purchase either powder or a solution. Being that the powder looks like it will save me a few bucks I think i'm leaning that way, but wanted to ask you if I need a catalyst for the powder or not. I see a catalyst mentioned in one set of instructions but not for the one with powder. I'm confused...... Zombie Green. Thanks for your help, Ty



Hi Ty,
With the powdered coatings, it is all one package. All you have to do is mix it into pure Acetone, mix well, and start coating.
In sealed bottles of mixture, is kept out of sunlight, and heat, you should be able to use mixture for quite some time.
It is similar with liquid coatings, but with liquid coatings, you need to add Catalyst as well as Acetone to dilute.
Zombie is a nice product, seems very popular. You can also get Candy Apple, (Red with Gold Flecks), and Texas Tea, Black with Gold Flecks) all very nice coloured coatings.

[HI-TEK]

Ordering through Gateway,unless you guys have a source that I can receive it through quicker.

Gateway should have stocks and be able to supply.
If he is unable to supply, may be try Bayou.
Deliveries would be ex stock from each in US.
Deliveries to you, would be dependent on local postal/transport service speeds.

[TyMarkle]

Candy Apple Red?!?! I have a 70 Mustang I'm about to paint that color.... :) I didn't see that option though on Gateway. Sounds like your doing some trick colors. COOL Thanks for the quick response too.

[TyMarkle]

Missouri Bullet Company is selling it also. He's 15 minutes from me and a member of my gun club. I'm gonna go hit him up tomorrow. I knew he sold his bullets with your coating so I figured I'd check to see if he sold your powder. I feel like I just scored a touchdown! He's showing red copper and red #254. Hoping the 254 is the candy. Anyway, Thanks again.

[Ausglock]

Red 254 is not Candy Apple.

[Ausglock]

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20141231_155003.jpg

Candy Apple red with Kryptonite green 45ACP 230gn RN.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/2014-05-17_17-49-22_80.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/2014-05-17_17-49-22_80.jpg.html)

[TyMarkle]

One of them will have to do!

[HI-TEK]

Missouri Bullet Company is selling it also. He's 15 minutes from me and a member of my gun club. I'm gonna go hit him up tomorrow. I knew he sold his bullets with your coating so I figured I'd check to see if he sold your powder. I feel like I just scored a touchdown! He's showing red copper and red #254. Hoping the 254 is the candy. Anyway, Thanks again.
The Red 254 is Brick Red type colour (Red Orange, which can darken, see previous blog by Red Ork)
Red Copper is more a Glittery Red Copper colour.

[HI-TEK]

I, for one, am hoping it is a big vacation--THE big vacation.

We don't need the likes of him around here ever again.

I'm pretty resistant to change. I don't have a smart phone, have had the same pickup for over twenty years, don't like plastic guns, don't like black guns. . .

But what Hi-Tek and Ausglock bring to the table is staggering. I've been working with their powders and finally got to shoot some Hi-Tek coated boolits this week. The results exceeded my expectations.

No, we don't need the likes of Frank around here.

:coffee:

Hi Recluse,
Glad that you were happy with your test results.
Thank you for posting, much appreciated.

[popper]

Dry gold in 300BO to 1750fps, no leading and reasonable accuracy for AC 2days ago. 145 gr. PB gold or PC same results. Now to try 1900 fps.

[klcarroll]

Dry gold in 300BO to 1750fps, no leading and reasonable accuracy for AC 2days ago. 145 gr. PB gold or PC same results. Now to try 1900 fps.


Hey Popper

Who's mold are you using for that 145 grain load??

I have been getting good results with the Lee 230 and Hi-Tek in my subsonic loads, but I haven't found a mid-range boolit that has made me happy in the faster loadings. (......And I REALLY want to get away from those expensive .30 caliber "J-Words"!!)

[Avenger442]

Looking good Popper.
I've not got the setup to do PC and have been wondering when someone would compare.

[Ausglock]

Playing with 3 new bronze coatings today.
One of them is going to be almost looking like jacketed pills.
Bronze 530. I'll post a few photos when I'm done.

[kryogen]

Playing with 3 new bronze coatings today.
One of them is going to be almost looking like jacketed pills.
Bronze 530. I'll post a few photos when I'm done.

oh thats awesome, i love by brown copper, already quite close enough. Post your pics vs a brown copper if you can to compare.

cant wait till monday to try again. Going to cast and coat some 9 mm. Getting into ppc i need a load thats works and doesnt lead.

[Chey-Cast Bullets]

Howdy to all from Cheyenne WY. I LOVE THIS PAGE!!!! [smilie=s: I think i have done my homework and HI TEK powder looks great. We will be us candy apple red powder for all our bullets.

[HI-TEK]

Howdy to all from Cheyenne WY. I LOVE THIS PAGE!!!! [smilie=s: I think i have done my homework and HI TEK powder looks great. We will be us candy apple red powder for all our bullets.

Howdy right back at you.
Glad you joined this fine group.
Would love to see your coated products, can you post some?

[Ausglock]

Bronze 500
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/smash/20150215_163826.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/smash/20150215_163826.jpg.html)

Bronze 502
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/smash/20150221_123118.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/smash/20150221_123118.jpg.html)

Bronze 530
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/smash/20150221_125408.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/smash/20150221_125408.jpg.html)

Notice how the test bullets get smashed.......

[Ausglock]

Dark Olive
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20150215_170359.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20150215_170359.jpg.html)

Old Gold
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20150215_134646.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20150215_134646.jpg.html)

Gunmetal Grey (Blue Grey) Gray for all you heathens in the USA...[smilie=s:
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20150213_210552.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20150213_210552.jpg.html)

There are still another 7 samples to test. I'll post them as I get them done.
All the above samples are 100% usable. I'm firing all these tomorrow in a Springfield 1911A1 9mm.

[farmerjim]

Ausglock, I see you are using MEK instead of acetone. Do you find that it works better? It is the same price as acetone at the local hardware store.

[kryogen]

The gunmetal color is awesome

[Avenger442]

I like the gunmetal, too. For some reason it always makes me think of James Bond?:Fire: Of course Bond would have never been caught dead in a cowboy hat but couldn't find my other guy.

I can see it coming. Going to get hooked on colors and have to buy more. Up until now only been interested in the performance. Now that I have that will have to have color too. The heathen do love color. Of course the Christian in me loves it too.

[Ausglock]

Ausglock, I see you are using MEK instead of acetone. Do you find that it works better? It is the same price as acetone at the local hardware store.

MEK is used for testing as it is slower drying and allows the experimental coatings longer to coat before "going off"

For production coating, I use Acetone.
As you can see. the colour of the mixed coating is very different from the final baked colour. The Gunmetal grey was expected to be sky blue. Didn't happen.
The Dark Olive was expected to be lime green.
This is why it is so hard to try and get a Pink or light blue.
Currently there are 48 powder samples and 34 liquid samples under my bench. I have tipped out probably the same amount of liquid samples on the weeds.

MEK is hard to get in OZ. none of the local hardware stores carry it. They only have Acetone.
HITEK Joe sends a few litres of MEK when he sends samples for testing.

Bullet coating isn't the only thing the crafty old bugger makes. He has specialty lubes for mining equipment (under ground and above ground), aerospace industries, automobile manufacturing, etc etc. If you are after a special lube (wet or dry) give him a cooee.

[Ausglock]

Candy Apple red and Kryptonite green on Hardline 45ACP 230gn RN Bevel base.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/2014-05-17_15-05-46_699.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/2014-05-17_15-05-46_699.jpg.html)

[Chey-Cast Bullets]

i need to know hi-tek powder grams to cups measurement and ml to oz i am old school. thanks

[Ausglock]

i need to know hi-tek powder grams to cups measurement and ml to oz i am old school. thanks

Hahahahaha..... I am constantly amazed at how the USA is stuck in the 17th century when it comes to weights and measures.
The rest of the world uses metric, and it is universally understood. the USA uses ounces, spoons, cups, pails, drums, tanks, pennyweights, pigs trotters, dogs scrotums etc etc ...:bigsmyl2: .

Your medical people use metric, steal some of their metric syringes for measuring...

[farmerjim]

You should have a powder scale, so 1 gram = 15.4 grains . 1 ml = 0.0338 oz
20 grams to 100 ml = 308 grains to 3.38 oz

[farmerjim]

Before electronic calculators, metric was so much easier to use in chemistry and physics. With the electronic calculators it is just as easy in the english measurement system.

[dsa]

i need to know hi-tek powder grams to cups measurement and ml to oz i am old school. thanks

3 tablespoons is 20g (+/- a gram) and 118ml's is 1/2 cup.

[popper]

That would be LEVEL tablespoons?
Just did a bunch with gold for the GC 30/30 & 308. We'll see just how good it is.

[Sticky]

Candy Apple red and Kryptonite green on Hardline 45ACP 230gn RN Bevel base.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/2014-05-17_15-05-46_699.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/2014-05-17_15-05-46_699.jpg.html)
Ooooeeeee those are sexxxy! Yes... the US is totally screwed... We have to have twice as many tools to work on anything, could be metric, could be other.. converting between units is totally whacked... good thing they have apps for that now! LMAO

[klcarroll]

Hahahahaha..... I am constantly amazed at how the USA is stuck in the 17th century when it comes to weights and measures.
The rest of the world uses metric, and it is universally understood. the USA uses ounces, spoons, cups, pails, drums, tanks, pennyweights, pigs trotters, dogs scrotums etc etc ...:bigsmyl2: ...


Hmmmm.............

Having worked as a Design Engineer in a former life, I can usually do metric - American conversions in my head pretty quickly; ........But I can't for the life of me remember how many dog scrotums there are per cubic meter! (........Sigh! ....It's got to be old age creeping up on me!)

[Sticky]

Hmmmm.............

Having worked as a Design Engineer in a former life, I can usually do metric - American conversions in my head pretty quickly; ........But I can't for the life of me remember how many dog scrotums there are per cubic meter! (........Sigh! ....It's got to be old age creeping up on me!)

Being a typically American measurement, it would probably be breed dependent...

Designed equipment as well and also know most of the common conversions by memory, but it still drives me nuts.. a simple base 10 system of measurement is sooo much easier!

(sorry for the hijack... )

[HI-TEK]

Being a typically American measurement, it would probably be breed dependent...

Designed equipment as well and also know most of the common conversions by memory, but it still drives me nuts.. a simple base 10 system of measurement is sooo much easier!

(sorry for the hijack... )


This may help some, found it on the net.
http://www.metric-conversions.org/weight/grains-conversion-table.htm

Another is http://home.clara.net/brianp/weights.html

And, another user friendly site, http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/weight/

Wait until you guys get into Bucket Chemistry, then try to decide which bucket, and is it US bucket or British bucket, large or small bucket, and is it in gallons or Litres capacity, or fluid ounces, .... the mind boggles... and resulting confusion...makes you want to drink by the bucket-full whatever measure is used....lol...lol

[kryogen]

i need to know hi-tek powder grams to cups measurement and ml to oz i am old school. thanks

Are you serious, you can actually post on the internet and have no clue how to figure this out?

or, just like the rest of the world, buy a scale that does grams and a measuring cup that does milliliters and you will not need to convert? Do they really not sell any milliliter measuring cups in the usa? Jesus.
Also, funny, you still have to swipe and sign with a credit card in the usa. No pin and chip yet. It has been like 10 years or so that the rest of the world uses that. Even in jamaica, really.
It just amazes me. I dont get it.

[Ausglock]

Hmmmm.............

Having worked as a Design Engineer in a former life, I can usually do metric - American conversions in my head pretty quickly; ........But I can't for the life of me remember how many dog scrotums there are per cubic meter! (........Sigh! ....It's got to be old age creeping up on me!)


:bigsmyl2: Thought that would get a few comments.......:bigsmyl2:

[Avenger442]

:bigsmyl2: Thought that would get a few comments.......:bigsmyl2:

You Aussies always mucking about down under pokin with the sharp stick. But most of us Southern Yanks have thick skin. Especially us old codgers.

We like the Kings antiquated measurements. And chips are something they are going to put under kryogen's skin one day.

But let's get back to the coating.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Avenger442;3148950]You Aussies always mucking about down under pokin with the sharp stick. But most of us Southern Yanks have thick skin. Especially us old codgers.

I am with you on this.
Ausglock does not reserve his sharp stick to you guys, I get plenty down here as well.
He is making me work like a slave, churning out batch after batch of new mixtures, and, even week ends are not sacred....
If I stuff up, there is no mercy at all.....
If I take a break, and relax, and try and sip fine Kentucky Bourbon, I get plenty of stick.....and ordered back to wok, and he tells me that I dont have time for such leisure and orders me back to work.... Cruel, he is cruel....lol...lol.

[Ausglock]

So.. what does everyone think of the 3 bronze colours???
I need some input so that Joe can work harder on variations to the colours.
I wish he would start paying me............

[redrockant]

I'd like to see them first

[Ausglock]

I'd like to see them first
go back a page.

[ioon44]

Hahahahaha..... I am constantly amazed at how the USA is stuck in the 17th century when it comes to weights and measures.
The rest of the world uses metric, and it is universally understood. the USA uses ounces, spoons, cups, pails, drums, tanks, pennyweights, pigs trotters, dogs scrotums etc etc ...:bigsmyl2: .

Your medical people use metric, steal some of their metric syringes for measuring...

It's just hard to teach old dogs new tricks.

[Beagle333]

Again, please remind me.... how many pennyweights of powder does it take for three spoons of acetone? :confused::coffeecom

:kidding:

(There are plenty of metric measuring devices available. They are not rare items at all.)

[Avenger442]

Well said Beagle333 and War Eagle.

[Avenger442]

So.. what does everyone think of the 3 bronze colours???
I need some input so that Joe can work harder on variations to the colours.
I wish he would start paying me............

Bronze (500) - #2
Red Bronze (502) - #1
Green Bronze (530) - #3
My order of like.

Can I get an orange and blue bronze?

[kryogen]

I prefer 530 in the bronze. the others look ok but too much like gold colors already. don't need 50 shades of gold.
like the military green and gold
LOVE the gunmetal. It's awesome. I want this :P

(how many squirrel nuts get in a teaspoon?)

[HI-TEK]

I prefer 530 in the bronze
like the mil green and gold
love the gunmetal

All the Brass coloured ones seem very nice.
The Gunmetal is a strange one. If you look at powder/solvent mix in the bottle, it has virtually no colour.
Then, cooking it, developsinto that Gunmetal Dark Blue/Grey colour.
Almost Magic.
I think Ausglock is doing some strange stuff here, slight of hand magic, using mirrors or such.
Noooo......., I am just kidding, it is a very nice colour.

[Avenger442]

kryogen: I agree on the gunmetal is a definite go color.

(squirrel nuts to teaspoon? is that gray squirrel, red squirrel or ground?)

[kryogen]

kryogen: I agree on the gunmetal is a definite go color.

(squirrel nuts to teaspoon? is that gray squirrel, red squirrel or ground?)

Yeah, you guys should sell the gunmetal I would buy it.
Gray squirrel nuts. I have figured about 5 to a teaspoon... now my issue is with a pint... how many in a pint.

[HI-TEK]

kryogen: I agree on the gunmetal is a definite go color.

(squirrel nuts to teaspoon? is that gray squirrel, red squirrel or ground?)

I am in process to send some to the US. I think that there will be about 150 pounds of Powder available when it arrives to LA.

[Avenger442]

Yeah, you guys should sell the gunmetal I would buy it.
Gray squirrel nuts. I have figured about 5 to a teaspoon... now my issue is with a pint... how many in a pint.

I've got five or six that run around in my back yard. Let me see if I can verify your findings on the teaspoon. Haven't had squirrel and dumplings in a while. Wife won't eat it. Something about rodent or rat, I forget. So it's all mine. Can't help you on the nuts to pint. Don't believe I have enough .22 ammo.

Joe: Can you give us an estimated time on arrival in US for the gunmetal when you know?

[HI-TEK]

I've got five or six that run around in my back yard. Let me see if I can verify your findings on the teaspoon. Haven't had squirrel and dumplings in a while. Wife won't eat it. Something about rodent or rat, I forget. So it's all mine. Can't help you on the nuts to pint. Don't believe I have enough .22 ammo.

Joe: Can you give us an estimated time on arrival in US for the gunmetal when you know?

From shipping "guesstimate", it should arrive about 2nd or 3rd week of April, or around that time.
Last shipment arrived, and was backlogged at LA seaport for 4 weeks after arrival.
I dont know if that shipping backlog is still current.
There are quite a few that already want the product, but it will be first in best dressed, and see where it goes from there.

[Ausglock]

FYI... The gunmetal coating is a strange one to use.
You mix it the same (20gms to 100mls Acetone)
Leave it to sit and react for a few hours.
Shake it and coat.
But, when you add the coating to the container of bullets to be coated and start swirling, the blue colour starts to come out.
The more you swirl it, the darker the blue gets.
When you get to the stage where you hear the sound change, the blue colour is very intense.

I am going to try swirling for a shorter time to see if the colour will bake lighter.

More mad scientist stuff....:bigsmyl2:

[benellinut]

Here's a great free conversion tool you can put on your desktop, this will do about any conversion task you'll ever need, I use it all the time. http://joshmadison.com/convert-for-windows/

BTW, I love that gunmetal gray!

[popper]

131984
Now to try these in BO, 30/30 & 308. And cast some more 145 for the BO. I coated, sized, GC, then another coat on the GC ones. Most are the 145 PB.

[Avenger442]

Popper
Is that the 1035 Gold in powder?
You certainly smashed that test bullet.

[Mozz]

I will be coating my first batch tomorrow, can anybody tell me how much mixed Hi-Tek per lb/kg.

[Avenger442]

I will be coating my first batch tomorrow, can anybody tell me how much mixed Hi-Tek per lb/kg.

I think Ausglock uses about 5-6 ml per 2 kg of bullets. But took one of his earlier comments and started just judging by eye. I usually coat about 3 lb +/- at a time I squirt about a teaspoon (good old Kings teaspoon) into the tub and tumble. Mine have been coming out OK.

Thin coat them. I control that by adding a little more acetone. Which means I have to dry (especially the first coat) a little longer. Usually over night. The drying process, at least for me, has been the most important thing to do correctly. Those bullets must be dry before going into the oven.

I know it's a chore to go back through what is probably one of the longest group of comments on this site. I did when I first started. Read every one of them. Even took some notes. Of course then there was only 170 +/- pages.

[Ausglock]

Mozz.
As stated above use thin coats.
If it looks like there is not enough colour on the bullets, then you have used the perfect amount.
If the colour looks good on the bullets, you have used too much.

So, 5 to 6mls per 2Kg of bullets.
swirl till the sounds starts to change.
dump onto mesh.
let dry fully.
warm and then bake.
repeat.
Easy as.

[ioon44]

Would 150ml to 20 grams of Red Copper be to thin for a first coat in this cold weather?

[Ausglock]

It will still work.
Try it and see.
If you don't like it, Just add another 10gms of powder to the mix to bring it back to normal strength.

[ioon44]

Just mixed up some 150/20. I will try it tomorrow in an open bucket, the temperature is suppose to get up to 3deg C. I think I will let it dry 24hr before baking.

Thanks for all the info

[kryogen]

how long does it need to dry at 23 celcius low humidity? like 20-30%? heated garage

[HI-TEK]

Just mixed up some 150/20. I will try it tomorrow in an open bucket, the temperature is suppose to get up to 3deg C. I think I will let it dry 24hr before baking.

Thanks for all the info
I think at 3deg.C drying will be next to nil.
Try first warming cast to about 25-30C, and coat quickly. Warmth in alloy should help with drying.
Place wire drying mesh on top of your oven with separator to allow warmth from oven to help drying.
When you think they are dry, cook a few first, to see what happens.
If they cook OK, then do the rest.

[tomme boy]

Right now there is 247 pages. How about a new post with instructions with both products? Maybe get with a Mod first that you want to do this to help out people. I do not like the time involved with PC. I have not bought a sprayer, I am too cheap. I like the tumble method. But I am not going to read through all of the pages to find out how to do both methods to figure out which one I want to try.

[ioon44]

I think at 3deg.C drying will be next to nil.
Try first warming cast to about 25-30C, and coat quickly. Warmth in alloy should help with drying.
Place wire drying mesh on top of your oven with separator to allow warmth from oven to help drying.
When you think they are dry, cook a few first, to see what happens.
If they cook OK, then do the rest.

I have been warming the cast to 25-30C before coating and it helps a lot. 3deg C is just where I can to stand to be in the unheated shop.

My convection oven stays cool on the top so I am trying to build a warming / drying cabinet, not quite done yet but first test look good, 30deg C is easy to maintain. I just have to figure out how long it takes the metal load to reach 30deg C.


I have read all 247 pages, lots of good reading.

[popper]

Avenger, yes gold 1035 powder. No leading @ 1750 - I shot the AC 2 days after loading the first batch, these wil be about a week old before I shoot them, if the ice goes away. Going to push to 1950 & faster to see results. The GC 165s in the 30/30 should go 2K+. If the alloy works I'll chrony. I've been drying in the toaster oven at ~ 150F, seems to work - just takes another hour.

[klcarroll]

Right now there is 247 pages. How about a new post with instructions with both products? Maybe get with a Mod first that you want to do this to help out people. I do not like the time involved with PC. I have not bought a sprayer, I am too cheap. I like the tumble method. But I am not going to read through all of the pages to find out how to do both methods to figure out which one I want to try.


Yes...... A short summary would probably be convenient: .....But I promise you that you will be missing out! There are tricks and techniques imbedded throughout this thread that WILL help solve problems that you will probably encounter.

I read the whole thread before I submitted my first post here.

Think about it this way: ...Would a one page summary of The Bible convey the same message and guidance?

In any event, I can help you make the choice between the two processes by paraphrasing a remark made Ausglock: "Hi-Tek was engineered and intended as a bullet coating; ....Powder Coat was deigned for lawn furniture."

[Beagle333]

And the famous little blue pill (which is censored here) was intended to treat angina...... 'Good thing everyone doesn't stop thinking just because of the label.

Hi-Tek is good stuff (I use it on some boolits too), but it isn't the only way to skin a cat (or coat a boolit) :cool:

[Ausglock]

tomme boy. Have a read of the Hitek do's and don't thread.
It isn't rocket science.. Only Bullet coating...

[Avenger442]

Looks like I'm going to wait about melting wheel weights and casting till later.

[Sticky]

Take the day, enjoy the snow, go sledding... lol

[vmathias]

Hey Fellas, I'm new to this site but have been following it trying to get everything figured out. I actually watched one of Grems videos that lead me to this site. Anyway, Just today I started off on page 1 of this post reading 1 through about 3 pages and then I figured to just jump ahead to get to the conclusion. After reading Frankd's post and WOW just scrolling up and seeing his last one, I thought I should inform you guys with a little bit of more information for information with information. Did you know when you cast lead Boolits your actually pulling in all sorts of foreign debris and then shoving them down your barrels?? You see lead when cooling has a very high sucking degree when doing so. Just the other day I had a batch cool and it sucked in cat hair from 3 houses down!! Cat hair hardens and becomes a very hard alloy after coming in contact with lead. NASA used cat hair in all of there Space Shuttles and missions to Mars!! I know I was there!! Lead will also suck in Bull $%!+ from wright out of your mouth. In some instances it's sucked in so much that it actually changed the color of the lead. Just ask Frandk.. He's had this happen twice!! It's actually were the phrase... shooting the $%!+ came from!! Anyway. now that I have cracked my first post, ie popped my cherry!! I really feel like a guru of all metals and of course Hi-Tek bullet coating. I should probably log off now cause big Bro is probably watching me through that lil hole in my computer. Ha, especially since I let the cat outta the bag, errr! ;) I actually got on here to order my first batch and give it ago, could someone point me to the best site for doing so? Thanks for all of your posts sharing your info and Technic. Ty

Now that is hilarious!

[Ausglock]

132068

Looks like I'm going to wait about melting wheel weights and casting till later.


I have never seen snow. must be fun.

[HI-TEK]

I have never seen snow. must be fun.

Snow covered land it very picturesque, but living there can be miserable when it is cold, damp and ground is frozen solid.
I lived in such a place, where water pipes underground were frozen, and, we had to melt snow for a drink, and a hot bath.
No fun, but sledding down a big hill, priceless....

[Mozz]

I am happy with the first batch Copper Red (Red Copper?). The oven's temperature was much less than good, i need to make some changes - add a PID, add some insulation, and have a door that keeps some heat in- any ideas of how to seal the door would be great.

See the photo they have good coverage. The first coat for 1kg of bullets was 2.5ml and 3ml for coats 2, 3. Wipe, Smash test successful and will shoot them at at the weekend.

[klcarroll]

Snow covered land it very picturesque, but living there can be miserable when it is cold, damp and ground is frozen solid.....

Ever since I was quite young, I have felt that there is something fundamentally wrong with a place where one of the gases in the atmosphere periodically freezes out and lays on the ground. I would be very happy with a place where only the liquid-gas portion of the water cycle was observable.

[Avenger442]

I am happy with the first batch Copper Red (Red Copper?). The oven's temperature was much less than good, i need to make some changes - add a PID, add some insulation, and have a door that keeps some heat in- any ideas of how to seal the door would be great.

See the photo they have good coverage. The first coat for 1kg of bullets was 2.5ml and 3ml for coats 2, 3. Wipe, Smash test successful and will shoot them at at the weekend.

Mozz
On the door, I have a cheap oven and noticed that the door had a gap around it. What I did was get some of the high temp silicone (black or blue) that I use when I'm working on an engine and put it around the oven where the door went when it closed. I put oil on the door where the sealant would touch so it would not stick to the door. Pressed the door in place and let the sealant set. This almost worked perfect. The problem was the oil didn't completely keep the sealant from sticking to the door. Vaseline might have worked better? In retrospect it might have been better to do both oil and a sheet of Sarhan (plastic) wrap to keep the sealant from sticking to the door then cut away the wrap. In any case, it sealed the crack.

On the snow, it is unusual for Alabama to get the kind of snow we got. Usually its an inch or two in the northern half. It's six inches plus at my house. Because we don't get the snow they get up north we don't have the equipment to handle it. It basically shuts everything down. In 1993 we had a blizzard. Depending on where you were 6-16 inches. My all electric home was without power for about a week. Water beds can be fun but not unheated. We had good neighbors that let a lot of the neighborhood share their gas stove heat. I have relatives that live in the northern states and they laugh at us and how three inches of snow can shutdown a city. They typically get 2 to three feet each year. We have a saying here in Alabama, "if you don't like the weather today don't worry it will be different tomorrow". We can have freezing weather on Monday and by Wednesday it can be 70 F. Snow shoes and then flip flops. We have both.

[Mozz]

High Temp Silicone i will get hold of some and thanks for the plastic and Vaseline tip.

We (in the UK) also have a issue with snow, we have it every year and it still causes us issues, either running out of rock salt for the roads, nothing the gritters out when we do have the rock salt, not having a emergency teams on standby for power failures even though we have it forecasted...

Hope you are in flip-flops soon, :)



Mozz
On the door, I have a cheap oven and noticed that the door had a gap around it. What I did was get some of the high temp silicone (black or blue) that I use when I'm working on an engine and put it around the oven where the door went when it closed. I put oil on the door where the sealant would touch so it would not stick to the door. Pressed the door in place and let the sealant set. This almost worked perfect. The problem was the oil didn't completely keep the sealant from sticking to the door. Vaseline might have worked better? In retrospect it might have been better to do both oil and a sheet of Sarhan (plastic) wrap to keep the sealant from sticking to the door then cut away the wrap. In any case, it sealed the crack.

On the snow, it is unusual for Alabama to get the kind of snow we got. Usually its an inch or two in the northern half. It's six inches plus at my house. Because we don't get the snow they get up north we don't have the equipment to handle it. It basically shuts everything down. In 1993 we had a blizzard. Depending on where you were 6-16 inches. My all electric home was without power for about a week. Water beds can be fun but not unheated. We had good neighbors that let a lot of the neighborhood share their gas stove heat. I have relatives that live in the northern states and they laugh at us and how three inches of snow can shutdown a city. They typically get 2 to three feet each year. We have a saying here in Alabama, "if you don't like the weather today don't worry it will be different tomorrow". We can have freezing weather on Monday and by Wednesday it can be 70 F. Snow shoes and then flip flops. We have both.

132135 132136 132137

[HI-TEK]

I am happy with the first batch Copper Red (Red Copper?). The oven's temperature was much less than good, i need to make some changes - add a PID, add some insulation, and have a door that keeps some heat in- any ideas of how to seal the door would be great.

See the photo they have good coverage. The first coat for 1kg of bullets was 2.5ml and 3ml for coats 2, 3. Wipe, Smash test successful and will shoot them at at the weekend.


They look great.
It looks a little like they may be just cooked, and possibly, you may benefit, by a little more cooking, as the finished colour can be a little darker.
It really depends on your end use, and how they sized after last cook, and, more importantly how they shoot.
Looking forward to your results.

[redrockant]

Hope this helps with measuring. http://m.ebay.com/itm/170590801890?nav=SEARCH

[ioon44]

Here is a good conversion sight for the metrically challenged.

http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/temperature_conversions.php

[TyMarkle]

Is there anybody here today that can give me the mix ratio 4 the 2-Extreme Hi-Tek powder??? I also need to know how much to add to the bucket to coat them with. I keep hearing different thoughts. Thin, thicker...... Thanks for your help. Ty

[popper]

Mozz - just toss a heavy towel over the oven. It won't burn and gives cheap insulation. It's 30 in the garage, I cooked some this morning - did fine.

[TyMarkle]

PS.. All of the info I keep finding is for the regular powder calling for a catalyst. 2-Extreme doesnt use a catalyst.

[Avenger442]

Has anyone seen a good video on mounting a PID to an oven? Are they drilling the side and putting the probe through or just running it through the crack in the door? I think I'm going to install one on my oven and Lee lead pot.

Ty: There are two systems or types of coating the liquids(first system) and the powders (second and latest system). With your powder the catalyst is already mixed with the powder so you just add acetone. The liquids require the mixing of the color and catalyst before adding the acetone.

My powder came with instructions. Which I have not read because I'm still using liquid. If you didn't receive instruction sheet look for post by Ausglock. He has been using it the longest and you can use his suggestions on mix.

Definitely thin coat. You will hardly be able to see the first coat on the lead. But when you cook it it will turn to the color you are using which will be more defined on the second thin coat. I'll give you my US measurements about one teaspoon to three pounds of bullets tumble for about 20-30 seconds in a container and let dry. Absolutely one teaspoon to three pounds is not critical but where to start. After you have used it for a while you can judge by eye how much to use. I've also found that the recommendations on amount of acetone in the instructions are a starting point. You can add more to help control coating too thick. Just keep in mind that more acetone means more drying time before baking. As Joe would say, it will also make your coating go a long way. I've started with the instructions and had good success. There is also another thread on this site "Hi-Tek Dos and Don'ts" (that I have not visited for a while) that keeps you in the know.

Snow is finally melting yipeeee.

[TyMarkle]

Thanks...... I mixed 2.5 tablespoons with 100m and first coat is extremely thin. Witch from from what I keep hearing is the best way to go. I'll go through those posts you mentioned for sure though. Thank you!

[kryogen]

Has anyone seen a good video on mounting a PID to an oven? Are they drilling the side and putting the probe through or just running it through the crack in the door? I think I'm going to install one on my oven and Lee lead pot.

I will take pics for you. I did it on my lee pot and oven with frozone PID. You will need an additional probe. I keep one in the pot, and one in the oven.
Once your pid has learned the appliance, you note the 3 numbers and after that you just click them in when switching. No need to re-learn every time.

To make a quick story, for the toaster oven, I removed the outside side panels (cosmetic). That gave me access to the wiring, and inner panel (oven itself). Drilled a small hole at the rear end of the right panel to have the probe approx 1cm away from the back panel, approx middle of the oven.)

Wire all 4 elements to a plug, that you plug into the PID. Wire the fan to another plug, that you plug straight into the wall. Fan is constant on, and all 4 elements on the PID, with the probe at the back of the oven. Works #1.
I added a large metal plate and 12 pounds of lead inside the oven to stabilize temps. Works MUCH better.

Goin to cast and coat right now, I'll post pics at the end of the afternoon.

[Moonman]

TyMarkle,
You can use YOUR POWDER SCALE.
20 GRAMS (not grains) to 100 ml of ACETONE
is the mixture to use for the powder.

DO NOT USE LESS as you risk not having sufficient ingredients
with relation to powder & catalysts in the powder.

SHAKE-SHAKE-SHAKE, let set 1 HOUR, SHAKE-SHAKE-SHAKE
Start to coat.

Let projectiles dry, AND NOT JUST TO THE TOUCH, I dry overnight,
especially the ALL IMPORTANT FIRST COAT.

Start to test "your" BAKING TIMES AND TEMPS
400F (200C) for 10 to 14 minutes.
Withdraw a couple projectiles at 10 & 11 & 12 & 13 & 14 minutes TO TEST.
Do both Smash and Acetone Wipe tests to test your success,
WITH YOUR OVEN AND PROCESS.

Use a DEDICATED OVEN and never again put FOOD INTO IT.

[TyMarkle]

Alright their coming out rough..... What will make cause them to be like that?

[Moonman]

TyMarkle,

Too much/heavy coating, insufficient mixing/waiting/mixing the solution,
or insufficient drying time (dry to the touch IS NOT DRY) water
under the coating can vaporize and bubble the surface coating.

[Avenger442]

I will take pics for you. I did it on my lee pot and oven with frozone PID.
Goin to cast and coat right now, I'll post pics at the end of the afternoon.

Thanks
Where did you buy the PID? What length probe?

[popper]

There is a thread on PIDs, lots of pics & instruction.I use the long high temp one, move from pot to oven as needed.

[HI-TEK]

Alright their coming out rough..... What will make cause them to be like that?

Possible causes for rough finish of first coat.
1. Adding too much coating mixture, tumbling/mix-coating for too long until coating became too sticky.
2. Using too much coating, and not drying adequately, or both before cooking.

Dont try to make up very small coating mixtures as then trying to reproduce results may be difficult.
If you start off using 20 grams of powder to 100 mls Acetone, this should give you a working mixture that will work.
Keep mixture in well sealed containers, suitable for Acetone, and keep it out of sunlight/heat.
Mixture will be usable for quite some time.
I sent you a PM, so I may be able to assist directly with data, and coating instructions.
Joe

[kryogen]

Ok, I have coated a few tonight and it seems much better. A few observations.

1- cooking 10 minutes after the oven is back to 200 isnt enough. Wiped off with acetone. I cook 12 minutes and I get VERY minimal bleed. (approx 14 min after I put boolits in, it takes approx 2 min to get back to 200).
2- I shaked a bit too long on 2nd coat. Boolits are warm before I coat, so I think that shaking 10 seconds is enough. 2nd coat I went for 20 seconds or so, and it felt like they started to clump just before I dropped, and the coating looked a bit rough. Cook 12 min, pass acetone and smash. Are they usable even though they are a bit rough looking ?
3- 10 minutes on top of the oven after coating already warm (not hot) boolits seems to completely dry as I didnt get any bubbling or anything. That means I could coat, and let one tray dry while I cook the other one, etc.

Also, some of my mistakes. I re-set every die checking everything with bullet pulling at every step. I though that my seating die wasnt crimping at all, but I was wrong, it was, and just the seating step was scraping coating to the lead.... fail. That's also what happened with my 45, I pulled boolits and they were all scraped... yes, fail, I know.
Ok, next my crimp die was set a bit too strong, I went minimal crimp with plunk test. Pulled, absolutely no scraping or over crimping of the boolit.

So I am going to try a few on monday or tuesday, cant wait. I went with a mild load also, going to see how it performs. 5 grains of power pistol, 1.050 with lee 120TC. I wish that it works well. I have over 1200 pounds of lead ingots so I would like to find a recipe that works so I can start using it :P

Here is a pic. Like I have said they look a bit rough because I shaked a bit too long before drying I think. I used 3ML for 2.5 pounds of 120ML to 20 grams mix. Should that be ok?

132363

[kryogen]

Here are the pics of my PID setup.
Got PID from Frozone here. Good guy to deal with. He sells the probes, just buy an extra probe when you get his PID.
(um, looks like he got banned, no clue why, when, etc... sorry. no idea where you can get those now)

132369
Here you can see the side of the oven. I have drilled a hole for an electrical box type "cable hold". PID and fan only plug go through this.
The oven controls don't work anymore. 4 elements are directly wired to the plug, which plugs into the PID. Fan is direct wired to another plug that plugs into wall.

132370
You can see the probe at the back of the oven, approx center L-R and top to bottom.
You can see the 1/2 inch metal plate that I put in(with the two 308 hits, eh, eh) , and also I have 2 6 pound lead ingots at the bottom of the oven. That's all to grab heat and stabilize temps. Works MUCH better with all this vs stock. Temps would vary too much before I did that. (you cant see the ingots, they are below the plate between the 2 bottom elements)
132371
Small bracket that I have installed on the lee pot that allows me to keep the probe 1 cm from side and bottom. Doesnt slip. More precise reading.

Just keep your P/I/D numbers after it learns your melting pot and oven, and just set them when switching appliances. That way you never have to have it learn again. Takes 1 minute to set while they warm up. No big deal. Better than waiting for the PID to learn, overshoot, overcool, overshoot.... etc etc.

Temps usually stay within +- 1-2 celcius while cooking or melting lead. Good enough for me.
Right now I cook at 200 and melt lead at 380. Seems to work fine.

Oh and I just became a contributor, this forum is well worth 10$ a year. Glad to be part of this.

[TyMarkle]

Thanks for all of the info fellas. I measured in tablespoons due to the instructions I was going off of. I think I shook to long and then maybe didn't dry long enough in between coats. I'll use my scales and convert my grains over to grams next time instead of using the tablespoon method. Joe has helped me through email a lot. Makes me want to get going with casting more. Again, thanks for all of your help.

[Ausglock]

Some of the Powdered HITEK does give a textured finish. Some give smooth.
They all work fine, Don't sweat it.
So long as they pass the wipe/smash test you are good to go.
Remember... sizing smooths out the bit of the bullet that touches the bore. The bit you see doesn't matter.

[kryogen]

They look perfectly fine unless I magnify it like on the picture. Cant wait to try. I loaded just 20 in case they lead or something.

Last time I shot 358 ammo in my glock, it was MUCH more precise than the 355 plated bullets. Probably going to try on tuesday, not going to have a chance on monday I think

[h&g68]

Hi Guys

I am looking at coating my cast bullets with this HiTEK powder coat product what is the cost and who has it for sale in the US.

[Ausglock]

H&G68.
Contact Bayou Bullets or Gateway Bullets.

[Ausglock]

Tex. Contact Joe.
He may soon be selling coating Via a Well known online Dealer in Sydney.

[HI-TEK]

I've got a 454Casull up here in Townsville that's being, well, rather temperamental lately. Winter is fine on "normal" lubes, but summer is causing the lube to run.

Cheers,


TexnAss
I know exactly how you feel.
I used to make a very hard high melting point Wax type lube many many years ago, as you guys were having so much trouble with lubes melting and running into every bag, box and packaging. Very messy, and not satisfactory.
I would appreciate if you contacted me via PM or Email.

[Gremlin460]

Right, the original video I did on youtube on how *I* use Hitek was muted by youtube because of the 18 seconds of intro music!!

I received a email from Joe telling me about it, so I have just reloaded it with a different audio, lets see how that fares.

Link is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svu6oHcd7d0

Remember everyone does it slightly different, but this method WORKS and I have no leading or failures doing it this way.

Mike

[NYBushBro]

Mike - great video.

[Gremlin460]

Mike - great video.


Thank You , I think I fumbled it kinda, its hard videoing on a smart phone and doing things one handed, but if it gets the basics acorss then it has done its job.
I would like to make mention of this though, the power board in the video it NOT live, it is only switched on at night for the lighting in the shipping container that is my reloading room.
Joe raised my awareness to this, with volatile Acetone or MEK please make sure you are in a safe environment, using a fan close is not safe. Any electrical motor generates sparks. You will notice that every time I squirt the coating into the container I walk to the outside of the container and shake in the breeze outside.
Please be safe...

[popper]

I tried 1 teaspoon (dry gold 1035) for 4# of rifle boolits, first coat turned out too heavy. It worked and I got good color and adhesion but I'll try 1/2 next time - 2 light coats then a third heavy (1 teaspoon). I used the green (pistol) for first coat on some - worked fine - was left over from last summer. Yes, I shot those and target results were good - 300BO @ 1750 fps plain base. The green first coat was thinner than the gold.

[ioon44]

Thank You , I think I fumbled it kinda, its hard videoing on a smart phone and doing things one handed, but if it gets the basics acorss then it has done its job.
I would like to make mention of this though, the power board in the video it NOT live, it is only switched on at night for the lighting in the shipping container that is my reloading room.
Joe raised my awareness to this, with volatile Acetone or MEK please make sure you are in a safe environment, using a fan close is not safe. Any electrical motor generates sparks. You will notice that every time I squirt the coating into the container I walk to the outside of the container and shake in the breeze outside.
Please be safe...

Gremlin460 thanks for the awareness of volatile Acetone and electric motors.

Trying to work in 3 to 4deg C weather I have been building a drying / warming cabinet with a electric fan motor and heater blowing into the bottom and venting at the top , works great for warming boolits to 25deg C to 30deg C to be coated.

After coating I put the trays out side in the fresh air for 15 to 30 min, should this be enough time for the Acetone to flash off?

Does Acetone vapor rise or drop when drying?

My last coating I used Red Copper powder mixed to 150ml/20grams for the first coat baked 12min at 200deg C , totally passed the smash test, 2nd coat was 100ml/20grams baked 12 min at 200deg C totally passed the smash test.

Now when the snow gets off the pistol range I try to shoot some.

[farmerjim]

Acetone vapor is twice the density of air. MEK is about 2 1/2 times as dense as air.

[benellinut]

Gent's, I'm jumping in the pool a little late, trying to soak up info before I go to the deep end and start casting. With these coatings, does the worry about hardness go out the window or do you still have to make sure your boolits aren't too hard or too soft?

[ioon44]

Gent's, I'm jumping in the pool a little late, trying to soak up info before I go to the deep end and start casting. With these coatings, does the worry about hardness go out the window or do you still have to make sure your boolits aren't too hard or too soft?


I use the 6-2-92 alloy which runs around 15 BHN.

[Avenger442]

Gent's, I'm jumping in the pool a little late, trying to soak up info before I go to the deep end and start casting. With these coatings, does the worry about hardness go out the window or do you still have to make sure your boolits aren't too hard or too soft?

Short answer to your question is no still have to be concerned about hardness.

Before I give you my long answer I need to qualify myself. I've only been casting for about two years and this is the only lubricant I have used. Started to use others but just haven't seen a reason to do it yet. I've been shooting about 15-16 BHN alloy (basically WW with 2% tin water dropped after the last bake) through a .308 bolt gun H4895 with one grain off of max load with no leading. I backed the load down a little more and got 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards which is as good as my factory deer ammo in this gun. I believe that with the right gun and a little tuning to loads you could go sub MOA. Have shot straight wheel weight alloy water dropped coated near max loads with no leading.

I will say one other thing. Hi-Tek has told me twice that this is not to be considered a jacket but a lubricating material separating the lead from the barrel. I won't get into the idea that that is what the copper does on a jacket while in the barrel. With three coats of Hi-Tek I personally believe that I can shoot softer lead than I could with Alox or some of the other lubricants. I have not tried to prove that assumption. I haven't wanted to because I'm having success with the coating in my guns. I probably should start loading some Alox in case we have to do without electricity at some point. Just haven't been able to get past the grease aspect. That is probably why some powder coat. Which is another thing I may try at some future time.

Wonder if I can rig a sun powered oven that will generate 400 F to bake with.

[Gremlin460]

Gent's, I'm jumping in the pool a little late, trying to soak up info before I go to the deep end and start casting. With these coatings, does the worry about hardness go out the window or do you still have to make sure your boolits aren't too hard or too soft?

If I water Drop out of the oven on the second coat cure, most of my WW lead returns 14-16bhn wich is more than ample for the pistols I shoot.

[benellinut]

Short answer to your question is no still have to be concerned about hardness.

Before I give you my long answer I need to qualify myself. I've only been casting for about two years and this is the only lubricant I have used. Started to use others but just haven't seen a reason to do it yet. I've been shooting about 15-16 BHN alloy (basically WW with 2% tin water dropped after the last bake) through a .308 bolt gun H4895 with one grain off of max load with no leading. I backed the load down a little more and got 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards which is as good as my factory deer ammo in this gun. I believe that with the right gun and a little tuning to loads you could go sub MOA. Have shot straight wheel weight alloy water dropped coated near max loads with no leading.

I will say one other thing. Hi-Tek has told me twice that this is not to be considered a jacket but a lubricating material separating the lead from the barrel. I won't get into the idea that that is what the copper does on a jacket while in the barrel. With three coats of Hi-Tek I personally believe that I can shoot softer lead than I could with Alox or some of the other lubricants. I have not tried to prove that assumption. I haven't wanted to because I'm having success with the coating in my guns. I probably should start loading some Alox in case we have to do without electricity at some point. Just haven't been able to get past the grease aspect. That is probably why some powder coat. Which is another thing I may try at some future time.

Wonder if I can rig a sun powered oven that will generate 400 F to bake with.


If I water Drop out of the oven on the second coat cure, most of my WW lead returns 14-16bhn wich is more than ample for the pistols I shoot.

Thank you gentlemen, so say something like a 44 Mag, pushing the higher end of the limits, I won't have to gas check if I use this coating?

[kryogen]

hey ausglock, I just shot 120TC tonight sized 358 out of my glock 17, they tumbled horribly at 7 meters.

What do you shoot out of your glock? stock barrel? I was quite a bit annoyed. I though that I had it good this time.
Didnt seem to lead though, will check tomorrow.
Any hi-tekers have clues for a good 9mm load?

[Avenger442]

Thank you gentlemen, so say something like a 44 Mag, pushing the higher end of the limits, I won't have to gas check if I use this coating?

I shoot 44 mag out of an 1894 but I have not tried it without gas check. Is this a hand gun? If so would say that you will probably be able to go without check. I seem to remember someone shooting some 223 or 308 both checked and un-checked and finding that there was no difference as far as not leading. Not sure about this since this is almost 250 pages now.

[benellinut]

I shoot 44 mag out of an 1894 but I have not tried it without gas check. Is this a hand gun? If so would say that you will probably be able to go without check. I seem to remember someone shooting some 223 or 308 both checked and un-checked and finding that there was no difference as far as not leading. Not sure about this since this is almost 250 pages now.

Yes handguns, I should have mentioned that.

[popper]

I use 4-4.5 W231 under a 130TC HiTek green, shot from several springfields, no problem. I have to size 357 and they are H.T.d.

[Gremlin460]

hey ausglock, I just shot 120TC tonight sized 358 out of my glock 17, they tumbled horribly at 7 meters.

What do you shoot out of your glock? stock barrel? I was quite a bit annoyed. I though that I had it good this time.
Didnt seem to lead though, will check tomorrow.
Any hi-tekers have clues for a good 9mm load?

Any chance of telling us what powder, what grain, and OAL so we have a better idea Please.

[Ausglock]

I run 4.2 W231 with that bullet

[kryogen]

Any chance of telling us what powder, what grain, and OAL so we have a better idea Please.
5.0 power pistol, 1000 fps approx, 1.050 I think, min crimp just to de-flare.

Power pistol looks like a slow powder. It flashes a lot on my hotter loads at 5.7 (jacketed).
Maybe I should try a faster powder? I have some bullseye or unique also. (just sucks that I have 2 pounds of PP left).

Whats better the lee 120TC or the 124 RN?

[ioon44]

5.0 power pistol, 1000 fps approx, 1.050 I think, min crimp just to de-flare.

Power pistol looks like a slow powder. It flashes a lot on my hotter loads at 5.7 (jacketed).
Maybe I should try a faster powder? I have some bullseye or unique also. (just sucks that I have 2 pounds of PP left).

Whats better the lee 120TC or the 124 RN?

What brand of reloading equipment are you using?

I don't think your powder is a problem.

I shoot a 120gn SWC PB out of a NEI 4 cav.

The reply's to your question in the Cast Boolits thread should help.

[zomby woof]

hey ausglock, I just shot 120TC tonight sized 358 out of my glock 17, they tumbled horribly at 7 meters.

EAA Witness full size LEE 120TC three coats Red Copper OAL 1.145 3.9 grains WST Shoots great!

[Ausglock]

Desert Tan?
Latte' ?
Coffee?

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20150305_194746.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20150305_194746.jpg.html)

View from a different angle.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20150305_194828.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20150305_194828.jpg.html)

[kryogen]

I dont like this color.

[kryogen]

EAA Witness full size LEE 120TC three coats Red Copper OAL 1.145 3.9 grains WST Shoots great!

do you size the boolits and what press or die do you use to expand the case?

[ioon44]

I size to .3575" and load on550B, I did modify the powder die to use the D funnel for .38/.357 which measures .3545" and my pulled boolits measure .357". These shoot great out of my Glock 19 factory barrel with Red Copper powder.

The F funnel for 9mm measured .351" and the pulled boolits measured .353" with 6-2-92 alloy.

[kryogen]

I size to .3575" and load on550B, I did modify the powder die to use the D funnel for .38/.357 which measures .3545" and my pulled boolits measure .357". These shoot great out of my Glock 19 factory barrel with Red Copper powder.

The F funnel for 9mm measured .351" and the pulled boolits measured .353" with 6-2-92 alloy.

How did you do that mod? I might buy an xl650 so I would like to know how to take care of this issue when I get it.

[ioon44]

I cut off the bottom of the powder die to where it just will hold the powder funnel, and ran it down to where it will bell the 9mm case and operate the powder measure.
I had to cut some of the threads off the bottom powder die as it contacts the shell plate and almost had to put the lock nut on the bottom of the tool head.

This just barely worked and might not work on a different 550B. I have no idea if this would work on a xl650.

The better solution would be to have a after market powder funnel custom made, I think some on this forum are doing that.

[kryogen]

I cut off the bottom of the powder die to where it just will hold the powder funnel, and ran it down to where it will bell the 9mm case and operate the powder measure.
I had to cut some of the threads off the bottom powder die as it contacts the shell plate and almost had to put the lock nut on the bottom of the tool head.

This just barely worked and might not work on a different 550B. I have no idea if this would work on a xl650.

The better solution would be to have a after market powder funnel custom made, I think some on this forum are doing that.

Yeah, I need something that works reliably.... seriously.

[ioon44]

Yeah, I need something that works reliably.... seriously.


Seriously, this does work reliably, I have using this set up for almost a year and have loaded thousands of rounds with excellent results.

You just have to be creative, its like they say necessity is the mother of invention.

[Ausglock]

Seems to be a lot of trouble just to reload 9mm ammo.
I have loaded tens of thousands of 9mm with coated bullets on Lee and dillon presses.
They all worked without all the modifications you are talking about.

[kryogen]

jeez. im fail.

[zomby woof]

do you size the boolits and what press or die do you use to expand the case?

I size to .358. I load on a LEE Loadmaster and use the powder through expanding die.

[Brenden]

Candy Apple red and Kryptonite green on Hardline 45ACP 230gn RN Bevel base.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/2014-05-17_15-05-46_699.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/2014-05-17_15-05-46_699.jpg.html)

I mixed up the candy apple red a couple days ago, applied to day following instructions and the result was much "browner" than your picture. Any idea what might have gone wrong?

[Ausglock]

Powder or liquid?

Make sire you shake IMMEDIATELY before coating the bullets to keep the particles in suspension.
What is your temp and bake time?

[Ausglock]

Temp needs to be verified with a thermometer. don't trust the temp dial on the oven.

[PAT303]

I mixed up the candy apple red a couple days ago, applied to day following instructions and the result was much "browner" than your picture. Any idea what might have gone wrong?
My Texas Tea boolits should be black with gold specks,every boolit comes out the colour of coffee,but they work. Pat

[HI-TEK]

My Texas Tea boolits should be black with gold specks,every boolit comes out the colour of coffee,but they work. Pat

Can you post a picture, of your mixture, and finished projectile.
This will help a lot.

[Brenden]

Powder or liquid?

Make sire you shake IMMEDIATELY before coating the bullets to keep the particles in suspension.
What is your temp and bake time?

It's the powder, I think my bake time was too long. I baked a full ten minutes after oven recovered to 400 degrees, next time I'll try 8 minutes. I remember looking through the oven glass at around 8 minute mark and thinking that's the color I wanted, but I talked myself into leaving them the full 10 for each coat. They passed the smash and acetone test so I should be good to go. Thanks all that responded.

[kryogen]

Here are a few pics of my coated boolits. Size is largest point if out of round. Mitutoyo micrometer readings, rounded to +- .0002 so it's close enough IMO for this post. Meaningless to be .00005 precise
1st one wasnt sized, so 359-360
2nd one was 358
3rd one was 357
The other is smash test. 2 coats brown copper.

All 3 bullets were driven with a wooden dowel through my glock 17 barrel. I measured it again and it's .356 at largest point and not 357 like I though. So I would use a 357 boolit not a 358 one.

133148
133149

The 360 peeled quite a bit when going through the barrel. The 358 peeled some, and the 357 peeled minimally, but still, it did not retain perfect coating. I have taken a pic with the worst spot, and then the other side to compare. The 359 when sizing to 357 stays perfect, and peels just a tad when hammered through the 356 barrel.

So what do you guys think?

Also, I have set up a modified 38 special lee expander die to work with 9mm cases. I dumped a bolt in it to act as a spacer, so there is just some play but it works with 9mm cases. (of course I use it just as an expander, not a powder through die). That way, when I seat a 357 boolit, pull it out and measure, it's still 357, so no more sizing down to 355 like it used to do with the 9mm tiny expander. I just use the 9mm powder through to dump powder now. (I resize and prime 9mm on a single stage anyway, so I feed the loadmaster with primed and sized brass). Cant get the priming system to work so I just gave up.

So the question is, am I good to shoot those 357 without leading?

[Ausglock]

OK... you people that are starting the bake time from when the oven returns to 400Deg... WHY?????????
This is over baking!!!
Remember... the coating only needs something like 1 minute at 400deg to cure.
Yes One (1) minute!!!
So. preheat the oven.
when it reaches 400deg, Insert the tray of bullets and close door.
START TIMING FROM NOW !!!!!!

This is how it's done..
If you want dark bullets, keep doing it your way.
I like my candy apple red and Kryptonite green looking good.

kryogen Shoot the .357
I really need to get to the range and collect some fired commercial coated bullets for you lot to see.
Some look like they could be reloaded and fired again.
Some look like bare lead with all coating gone.
Some have no coating where the lands of the rifling has been.
But they all worked.
The amount of leading is relative.
Some guns lead no matter what you do.
Others don't. Some do a bit.

Bullet fit and barrel throating will solve 90% of leading issues.
HITEK solves the rest.

[kryogen]

great, will try those 357 this week and report.

[Brenden]

OK... you people that are starting the bake time from when the oven returns to 400Deg... WHY?????????
This is over baking!!!
Remember... the coating only needs something like 1 minute at 400deg to cure.
Yes One (1) minute!!!
So. preheat the oven.
when it reaches 400deg, Insert the tray of bullets and close door.
START TIMING FROM NOW !!!!!!

This is how it's done..
If you want dark bullets, keep doing it your way.
I like my candy apple red and Kryptonite green looking good.


I think it has alot to do with the fact that this thread is over 250 pages long. The powdered product is new in the states, so when it came out here is when I really became interested (shipping and product costs were prohibitive before) so at that point I had to start I've had to start backtracking to find my info. It took a while for me to realize that you were associated with the product, by then I had read so much that it was difficult to sort who said what.
It would go along way if clear concise instructions could be edited into an early post in this thread.

[kryogen]

OK... you people that are starting the bake time from when the oven returns to 400Deg... WHY?????????
This is over baking!!!
Remember... the coating only needs something like 1 minute at 400deg to cure.
Yes One (1) minute!!!
So. preheat the oven.
when it reaches 400deg, Insert the tray of bullets and close door.
START TIMING FROM NOW !!!!!!

This is how it's done..

If I cook mine 10 minutes after it's gotten back to 200, it fails wipe test quite miserably. (brown copper).
At 12 minutes after it's back to 200, it passes wipe test.
No clue why, but it's this way. PID controlled to +- 1 degree.

[Ausglock]

I really feel a lot of the failures are based on the fact that where you are is far colder than where I am.

Winter here is lucky to get to 0 Deg C. Even that is only for a few hours a few days per Winter.
Summer is normally into the High 30 to mid 40 Deg C with humidity into the 90% mark.

So, this is very good for coating bullets.

Your cold climate may be the fly in the ointment for coating.

Brenden. Page 19 has instructions for the coating.
When I get time, I will rehash and update it.
There is a HITEK do's and don't thread that is far easier to follow and there are tips and tricks on there to help you.

[kryogen]

we get -40 sometimes here during the winter. Quite cold.
Most of the winter is -20 day and -30 nights though.
now it has started to warm up and we are getting -16 this night, and oooooo, above ZERO tuesday, if we are lucky :P, then back to -7. eh eh.

I coat in a garage, heated to 23, with very low humidity though. And coat warmed bullets. So acetone evaporates really quick. Next time I'll shake less than 10 seconds I think.

[Budzilla 19]

Just used the new (to me) gold powder and acetone mixture on some 9mm's and these beautiful 30 cal's!!!! Shook them around till sound changed, then onto rack on top of oven to dry. 5 minutes later, into oven at 400 deg. F for ten minutes. Did this four times,just for grins, came out looking beautiful!! Check'em out!! Sized and checked, no loss of coating!! Wipe and smash test ok also.

[popper]

Kryogen, too thick a first coat I think plus not really dry. Low temp doesn't mean l;ow humidity, air holds less moisture at low temp so drying is ineffective. My first try with the gold turned out the same way. Passed smash but flaked when sizing. I think I solved the problem using half a teaspoon for the first 2 coats, full for the last. I also put them in the oven to dry for an hour before baking - PID says 180F but I leave the door about half open. I bake then @ 380 for 12 min. Shoot ~ 25 in the BO, no leading. Got a feeling we will be cold and damp this spring, we need the water.

[kryogen]

(they didnt flake when smash or sizing, they flaked when I hammered them through the barrel to slug), with too much of an oversize.
The 357 didnt do too bad in the barrel.

I did 250 tonight, 3 coats.
All 3 coats were 2.5ml for 2.5 pounds. (1ml per pound)
Last time I did 2x 3ml for 2.5 pounds and that was a bit thick. (1.2ml per pound, which isnt really much different)
Plus, this time, I shook no more than 10 seconds, BEFORE sound change. They are noticeably smoother and have more gloss to them.

I don't feel like having fun slugging another one. Will shoot tuesday and report.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE "It took a while for me to realize that you were associated with the product, by then I had read so much that it was difficult to sort who said what."

Brenden,

Just to clarify things, Ausglock, is not connected to the manufacturer of the Hi-Tek coatings.

Ausglock, has been actively using/testing the coated products for many years, purchased from by local manufacturers, and in many and varied end use applications.
Ausglock, has kindly published his testing and findings to assist other users.

A couple of years ago, Ausglock became aware of manufacturer, after some blogs were placed on this website.
He contacted us, and has been kind enough to volunteer & test all newly developed coatings both liquid and powdered versions as an independent person.

In terms of your request for concise instructions, such details are freely available from manufacturer and suppliers of the Hi-Tek coatings.

Ausglock, in fact already blogged his test method/procedures, he adopted and used, that has been able to be reproduced and verified as being successful world wide.

Unfortunately, due to the many and varied questions being posed by many people, the replies and track-ability of specific details can be lost.

As a result, Ausglock had opened another area on the blog site, on Do and Donts with Hi-Tek Coatings, and was with intent to simply discuss his experiences with specific matters, using the coatings.
Even this site is now huge and bulky.

It is suggested, that if you do not wish to read all the threads, which I agree is huge task, it is more simple to pose specific questions to your supplier or to the manufacturer, for more direct responses.

[Ausglock]

It took a while for me to realize that you were associated with the product.

Me??? Associated???? HA... Not bloody Likely.
It's bad enough having to deal with the manufacturer, let alone being associated with him.
He is old, cantankerous, a drunkard, rude, abrupt, forgetful and did I mention a Drunkard? .......:bigsmyl2:.

I only use the stuff. not make it.

[PAT303]

Joe,I tried posting pics,even got my wife to help but no go for some reason,my texas tea coating comes out looking the exact color of the boolits in post 5006,I don't care about it really,the boolits pass all the tests and I've shot about 500 of them in the last month or so without any need for cleaning,not having dirty cases,fingers,dies and great results has sold me on your product,all my lube gear with lube has been removed from my reloading bench hopefully never to see the light of day again. Pat

[HI-TEK]

Joe,I tried posting pics,even got my wife to help but no go for some reason,my texas tea coating comes out looking the exact color of the boolits in post 5006,I don't care about it really,the boolits pass all the tests and I've shot about 500 of them in the last month or so without any need for cleaning,not having dirty cases,fingers,dies and great results has sold me on your product,all my lube gear with lube has been removed from my reloading bench hopefully never to see the light of day again. Pat

Hi Pat 303

I have also tried to post pictures. But apparently, you have to get pictures into a site called photobucket first, then extract photos to the post from there, and it works.

The colour in post 5006 is Red Copper not Texas Tea.
Texas Tea is black with golden particles.

I am glad that you got things going well.
Thanks for your blogs.

[benellinut]

[QUOTE "It took a while for me to realize that you were associated with the product, by then I had read so much that it was difficult to sort who said what."

Brenden,

Just to clarify things, Ausglock, is not connected to the manufacturer of the Hi-Tek coatings.

Ausglock, has been actively using/testing the coated products for many years, purchased from by local manufacturers, and in many and varied end use applications.
Ausglock, has kindly published his testing and findings to assist other users.

A couple of years ago, Ausglock became aware of manufacturer, after some blogs were placed on this website.
He contacted us, and has been kind enough to volunteer & test all newly developed coatings both liquid and powdered versions as an independent person.

In terms of your request for concise instructions, such details are freely available from manufacturer and suppliers of the Hi-Tek coatings.

Ausglock, in fact already blogged his test method/procedures, he adopted and used, that has been able to be reproduced and verified as being successful world wide.

Unfortunately, due to the many and varied questions being posed by many people, the replies and track-ability of specific details can be lost.

As a result, Ausglock had opened another area on the blog site, on Do and Donts with Hi-Tek Coatings, and was with intent to simply discuss his experiences with specific matters, using the coatings.
Even this site is now huge and bulky.

It is suggested, that if you do not wish to read all the threads, which I agree is huge task, it is more simple to pose specific questions to your supplier or to the manufacturer, for more direct responses.

Thank you, do you have links you could post to steer us in a direction?

[Ausglock]

Pat303. email me the photos and I'll put them up for you.
glock40sw@bigpond.com

[kryogen]

I am expecting some nice colors and will be able to try those when I get em. Cant wait to have all those pretty boolits.

[ioon44]

A lot of people here say to coat thinner but they don't give any ratios so I done this test to adapt to the cold weather.

My last coating I used Red Copper powder mixed to 150ml / 20grams for the first coat baked 12min at 200deg C , totally passed the smash and wipe test.
2nd coat was 100ml / 20grams baked 12 min at 200deg C totally passed the smash and wipe test.

These were coated in an open bucket ( 5lm mix to 2kg of boolits) as soon as I could see coating on all the boolits at around 10 sec I dumped on to 1/4" wire screen with the bottom of the bucket still being wet.
I don't seem to hear any sound change, probably has some thing to do with too many years of Cannon fire and Rock and Roll.

These are 200gr SWC boolits and were warmed to 25-30deg C. before each coat.
They were also force dried in a warming cabinet for 1hr at 50deg C and were baked the next day.

About 200rds of these were shot out of two different 1911's , 200gr SWC loaded to 700fps and 850fps. The barrels in both guns were totally clean with no leading.

Only thing with these mixes is that some of the lube rings and shoulder area had no coating and some of the nose area had very little of the Red Copper color, just the gold color but all driving bands were good, just not as pretty as 3 coats.

As the weather warms up here I will change ratios to get better coverage with 2 coats.

[kryogen]

I did 3 coats with 120ml to 20 grams. 1ml per pound.
Nice, thin coats, complete coverage.

[Ausglock]

coating in the grooves means that you are using too much.
Even with commercial coated bullets, they still have bare lead in the groove.
SWC 45 bullets will usually not have coating where the shoulder meets the nose cone.

[kryogen]

Question

I plan to cast and coat 358-105 SWC for 9mm.
They apparently drop at 361 sometimes out of the mold. I want them at 357 for the 9mm.
How will the hi tek react to being sized 4 mils? Will it cause issues?
Should I just bake, coat, water drop, then maybe just spray a tad of silicon spray then size, to just minimize friction after they are all hi-tek coated anyway?
I fear that sizing before will 1- lead my die, because I cant lube before coating, and 2- alter the surface properties of the bullet for the coating to stick to.

[HI-TEK]

Question

I plan to cast and coat 358-105 SWC for 9mm.
They apparently drop at 361 sometimes out of the mold. I want them at 357 for the 9mm.
How will the hi tek react to being sized 4 mils? Will it cause issues?
Should I just bake, coat, water drop, then maybe just spray a tad of silicon spray then size, to just minimize friction after they are all hi-tek coated anyway?
I fear that sizing before will 1- lead my die, because I cant lube before coating, and 2- alter the surface properties of the bullet for the coating to stick to.

Kryogen,
Please do not use any Spray Lubes, especially Silicone types, as it will cause you failures with coating adhesion subsequently due to cross contamination/contact transfers.

All you have to do is cast, coat to your satisfaction, and size only a few without any lube.
If required, use Aqualube (diluted) to help significantly to reduce sizing load.
This stuff is a dry lube, and will not cross contaminate/migrate, and therefore should not cause coating adhesion problems down the track.

Some size after 1 coat, then re-coat a second time without any problems. As long as first coat has been cooked adequately and has bonded it should allow sizing and recoating.

[kryogen]

or a few sprays of water based hornady one shot lube like I use on pistol cases?

[HI-TEK]

or a few sprays of water based hornady one shot lube like I use on pistol cases?

It will depends if the Hornady water based system contains any Silicones or not.
Does it leave a dry non-stick lubricating film?
Even though it may be Water Based, it can be a Water/emulsion suspension containing Silicones.
I dont know but will have a look.

[HI-TEK]

or a few sprays of water based hornady one shot lube like I use on pistol cases?

Sent you an email about various matters

[Ausglock]

Question

I plan to cast and coat 358-105 SWC for 9mm.
They apparently drop at 361 sometimes out of the mold. I want them at 357 for the 9mm.
How will the hi tek react to being sized 4 mils? Will it cause issues?
Should I just bake, coat, water drop, then maybe just spray a tad of silicon spray then size, to just minimize friction after they are all hi-tek coated anyway?
I fear that sizing before will 1- lead my die, because I cant lube before coating, and 2- alter the surface properties of the bullet for the coating to stick to.
This is an easy fix.
I love this bullet in 9mm and use it a lot.
Here is how I do it.

I apply 1 coat. bake and size to .358.
then apply 2nd coat. bake and size to .3565.
Because these are a flat base bullet, I get a little flashing at the base, so I like to size after the first coat to push the flashing down and even though you can see"bare lead" after the first sizing. it isn't actually bare lead. the coating has thinned to allow you to see "bare lead" through it.
The second coat will stick. no worries.

[leadman]

I have found the HT coating allows sizing down a substantial amount without distorting the driving bands or lube grooves. The boolit just gets longer.
I use RCBS case lube on their pad to lube the boolits for sizing if needed.

[HI-TEK]

Thank you, do you have links you could post to steer us in a direction?


This is one link that you may find useful is below.
If you require more specific details, all you need to do is ask. I am sure many will be happy to assist.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?240450-HI-TEK-do-s-and-don-ts&goto=newpost

[HI-TEK]

I have found the HT coating allows sizing down a substantial amount without distorting the driving bands or lube grooves. The boolit just gets longer.
I use RCBS case lube on their pad to lube the boolits for sizing if needed.

If you look at videos, where the coated alloy is smashed into a flat disc, and flat torpedo, and no problems with coatings coming off, I hardly think that a few thou change in diameter should do any thing.

We have had some tests done on some new Bronze coloured coatings. These proved difficult to size without Aqualube 5000. The final coat was so tough, it almost jammed sizing machine, but coating stayed put on alloy.
It was double coated onto 92:6: 2 Alloy.
It is hoped that these may be the newer generation of coatings that may work with Rifles.
But testing will be required to prove or disprove this.
Will keep things updated as they develop.

[PAT303]

Joe,can Hi Tek be used to coat steel?.I shoot Lee Enfields and was thinking of coating the trigger sear as the trigger rubs across the face of the sear when it fires. Pat

[HI-TEK]

Joe,can Hi Tek be used to coat steel?.I shoot Lee Enfields and was thinking of coating the trigger sear as the trigger rubs across the face of the sear when it fires. Pat

Hi Pat,

Our coatings were considered to be bonded to Steel as a dry film lube. In mining and other areas, lubricating chains Sprockets and other components in dusty wet areas is a huge challenge, as all "wet" and conventional lubes in fact attract dust dirt etc, and wear away components due to trapped grit & dust. (That is why guns and other things constantly require cleaning and re-lubing to remove such deposits.)
Down side was, that coatings can be applied to components to be bonded, as long as it could be heated to set the coating.
Then, we had many challenges people wanting all sorts of additives included to meet salt spray tests, corrosion tests and many others.
It became too much, and, many components as used for such applications was nasty stuff.
We opted to not enter that market.
As we were developing the coating, to be a super bonded and most slippery coating in ammo, we initially failed miserably with ammo use.
Reason for failures, were simply, that we were being sent down the wrong garden path, of what was actually requested, being a super slippery bonded coating.
Shooters could not even hit the target at 20 metres.
We eventually found, that "slipperiness" was actually cause of the problems, as projectiles left barrel without adequate pressure build up as there was no internal resistance due to extremely slippery coatings.
We threw out all previous ideas, and had to start from the beginning.
Apology for long winded reply, but in short, you can try it and see, how long it will work as bonded coating.
It may work, but as they say, until you try, you wont know. At very least, it will separate the two surfaces for a while, for how long.... well I dont really know, sorry.

[Ausglock]

Today I fired 40 rounds of 44 Mag out of a Marlin 1894 lever gun.
I used the Lee 200gn RNFP with 2 coats of the new superhard bronze 500 powder.
This coating really needs a sizing lube, as unlubed bullets almost broke the handle off my press trying to size them.
A moderate target load of 7.5gn AP-70 (Hodgdon universal) with federal large pistol primers.
Standing off hand at 50 metres was ringing the steel with every shot.
The barrel was shiny clean with only a few granules of unburnt powder.
I'm going to load up this bullet to a heavy load with Alliant 2400 and see how these bullets and coating performs without gas checks .

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Looking forward to getting some here in the U.S.
I have some of the SuperHard Bronze due to arrive on my next shipment.

[Avenger442]

Today I fired 40 rounds of 44 Mag out of a Marlin 1894 lever gun.
I used the Lee 200gn RNFP with 2 coats of the new superhard bronze 500 powder.
This coating really needs a sizing lube, as unlubed bullets almost broke the handle off my press trying to size them.
A moderate target load of 7.5gn AP-70 (Hodgdon universal) with federal large pistol primers.
Standing off hand at 50 metres was ringing the steel with every shot.
The barrel was shiny clean with only a few granules of unburnt powder.
I'm going to load up this bullet to a heavy load with Alliant 2400 and see how these bullets and coating performs without gas checks .

Thanks Ausglock will be looking for those results. I shoot 44 out of a 1894 Winchester lever action. I was very happy with test at 50 yards using IMR 4227. If I remember right the groups were as good as or better than factory ammo.

[kryogen]

Would that new coating work for 223 ar loads?

[HI-TEK]

Would that new coating work for 223 ar loads?

I have read in this blog previously, that it was used with 223.
I cannot remember details.

(whoever posted details previously, please re-post)

If coating is bonded well, and cooked well, it should stay put.
Speed or heat or pressure should not be a problem.

Coating wont melt become sticky and should stay on until alloy leaves barrel.
You may have to fiddle with sizing, powder loads but initially make sure that you follow load guide handbook.

May be others can offer further advice.

[NYBushBro]

We have had some tests done on some new Bronze coloured coatings. These proved difficult to size without Aqualube 5000. The final coat was so tough, it almost jammed sizing machine, but coating stayed put on alloy.
It was double coated onto 92:6: 2 Alloy.
It is hoped that these may be the newer generation of coatings that may work with Rifles.

Hi-Tek Joe,

Does this include the Bronze 530? I have some on order with Bayou. My primary interest, as you know, is using this with rifles/carbines.

Is the Bronze 530 in powder or liquid form? Thanks.

[HI-TEK]

Hi-Tek Joe,

Does this include the Bronze 530? I have some on order with Bayou. My primary interest, as you know, is using this with rifles/carbines.

Is the Bronze 530 in powder or liquid form? Thanks.

Hi NY Bush Bro,
Tests done on 3 different Bronzes, 500, 502 and 530 all determined that they were very hard to size without Aqualube 5000 being used to assist.
The most difficult to size, appeared to be the Bronze 500.
They all have slightly different finished colour after bake.
Donnie has on order the 530, but not the 500 or 502. The 530 will not be in this shipment.
How much have you ordered?
There is a shipment due to be sent soon, and if required, we can add the 500 or 502, if you want to use those coloured products.
We at this stage do not have commercial quantities of 530 to supply in this shipment, but have the 500 and 502 available that may be included.
You will have to act quickly and discuss matters with Bayou, (Donnie) to alter requirements if needed.

[rnt300]

Hi everyone, i am a newb to this forum and casting my own boolits. I am using hi tek coated boolits i bought for my subsonic 300aac shooting and they are fantastic!! My question to you all is if i want my final outside diameter to be .309 do i start with a lead boolit at .308 then hi tek and finally resize to .309??

[kryogen]

Oh god my glock 17 9mm is still leading like a stovepipe. I shot 40 bullets tonight and it was gray all around. No chunks, no tumbling boolits like it used to do before I used the 38 expander, but it's covered with lead all around. Nightmare to clean that.

Seriously I just don't have a clue anymore.

Barrel is 3560
3 coats of hi-tek, boolits sized to 3565-3568, pass everything.
38 special expander, no scraping of the coating, minimal crimp, boolits measure the same in and out.
5 grains of power pistol, lee 120TC, wheel weights, air cooled.

I am seriously starting to be quite pissed off at this.... I just bought a new lee mold (105 SWC).
AND, as usual, I made 200 rounds before testing my lastest load, so now I have 200 to pull.... starting to be quite annoyed.
Or, Ill shoot those and just peroxyde the barrel or something? I hate pulling bullets.

I CANT GET IT TO WORK JESUS.

The only thing I see left would be to water drop the boolits after the last bake.
I dont get it. I'm not that dumb. I have spent TONS of hours trying to get this to work.

[Ausglock]

Hi everyone, i am a newb to this forum and casting my own boolits. I am using hi tek coated boolits i bought for my subsonic 300aac shooting and they are fantastic!! My question to you all is if i want my final outside diameter to be .309 do i start with a lead boolit at .308 then hi tek and finally resize to .309??
No. start with a bullet of 309 or 310. coat and final size back to .309.

[Ausglock]

Oh god my glock 17 9mm is still leading like a stovepipe. I shot 40 bullets tonight and it was gray all around. No chunks, no tumbling boolits like it used to do before I used the 38 expander, but it's covered with lead all around. Nightmare to clean that.

Seriously I just don't have a clue anymore.

Barrel is 3560
3 coats of hi-tek, boolits sized to 3565-3568, pass everything.
38 special expander, no scraping of the coating, minimal crimp, boolits measure the same in and out.
5 grains of power pistol, lee 120TC, wheel weights, air cooled.

I am seriously starting to be quite pissed off at this.... I just bought a new lee mold (105 SWC).
AND, as usual, I made 200 rounds before testing my lastest load, so now I have 200 to pull.... starting to be quite annoyed.
Or, Ill shoot those and just peroxyde the barrel or something? I hate pulling bullets.

I CANT GET IT TO WORK JESUS.

The only thing I see left would be to water drop the boolits after the last bake.
I dont get it. I'm not that dumb. I have spent TONS of hours trying to get this to work.

get rid if the wheel weights and use 2,6,92 hardball alloy.

[Redwoode]

Certainly don't want to start a controversy but I've successfully cast and coated several hundred lbs. of air cooled clip on wheel weight alloy. 380acp, 9mm and 40sw with no hint of leading. Most with standard catalyst. I am using 2 extreme catalyst from Donnie now though and prefer it. I have tried powder with same good results but I like the liquids and have quite a bit left and no reason not to use it.

I do want to try some of the super hard bronze powder on 223 without gas checks. Looking forward to it.

[Ausglock]

I suggested hardball alloy simply because I know it works.
It is what I use for all my casting, and it works in G17 and G34 9mm.

[Redwoode]

Don't see it making any difference but I don't use any Lee molds. Hardline, MP and Noe. Cast them hot and a tad frosty. Tumble casts together for maybe 10 mins. A nice smooth burnished surface for coating to bond to. Thanks to Grem460 for this hint.

[Ausglock]

I cast the Lee 120 with hardball. no issues in any gun.
I coat shiny bullets. coating sticks no problems.

[Redwoode]

I'll get some hardball for the 223.

As I think about it both the glocks I shoot 9mm are 40s&w stock with conversion barrels. So not apples to apples with rifling variances. Stock glock 40 barrels no problems though.

[kryogen]

the only thing I see left would be my alloy that would be too soft? coww.
Maybe I should just water drop it after the last bake, then wait a week to shoot?
I'm kind of out of ideas.

[HI-TEK]

the only thing I see left would be my alloy that would be too soft? coww.
Maybe I should just water drop it after the last bake, then wait a week to shoot?
I'm kind of out of ideas.

How are you doing Kryogen.
Sounds like you are having a few problems with this.
Just a quick question.
Do you know hardness of the alloy you are using? Can you test?
Also, is it possible to recover a shot projectile and taking a close up picture?
It would tell me a lot, simply having a look at a close up of what projectile looks like after being shot especially if the projectile can be captured undamaged like into water or similar..
After coating cooking and cooling, did you do a smash test, and how did you do it?
I am just trying to work through various areas to try and assist.
In many instances, the most simple inconspicuous matter may be over looked, and may cause great frustration. Been there, done that, many times.
As Ausglock said, the Good old Bourbon settles nerves...lol...lol

[rnt300]

No. start with a bullet of 309 or 310. coat and final size back to .309.

it just doesnt get any more simple than that!!! Thank you Ausglock.

[Avenger442]

it just doesnt get any more simple than that!!! Thank you Ausglock.

You probably already picked up on this but don't do any sizing before the first coat. It has been found to make the coating not bond to the lead.

[kryogen]

Do you know hardness of the alloy you are using? Can you test?

No idea, no real way to test it. How do you guys do it?

"Also, is it possible to recover a shot projectile and taking a close up picture?"
Not before the summer when I can shoot at the outdoor range.

"After coating cooking and cooling, did you do a smash test, and how did you do it?"
I smashed it with a hammer, looks all good. no flaking, no wipe off.

[HI-TEK]

"Also, is it possible to recover a shot projectile and taking a close up picture?"
Not before the summer when I can shoot at the outdoor range.


If you can arrange a water tank that has about 1.5 to 2 metre depth of water, if you shoot into it hopefully you could collect the projectile.
One guy here, took a 44 gallon drum, filled it with water, and laid about 6 inches of wet blankets on top. He shot through the wet blankets straight down, and the bullet hit the bottom with only the point slightly damaged and did not penetrate bottom of drum.
I dont like that method but it seemed to work.

[kryogen]

see post 5005 page 251, I have some pics of the slug test....

I didnt try the new 3 coated projectiles, will do this weekend.

I am sizing to .3566 approx, and barrel is .3560 are they too small?
Sizing larger resulted in more scraping with the 2 coated batch.
I did a better job with the 3 thin coats, ditnt slug test yet.
Maybe I should try some 358 and 356? to see?

I have sizing dies 356, 357, 358. I have ordered a 105 SWC mold, expecting it next week also.
I need to find a way to have cast boolits that do not lead. I don't want to just buy commercial copper plated. That's a fail.

[HI-TEK]

see post 5005 page 251, I have some pics of the slug test....

I didnt try the new 3 coated projectiles, will do this weekend.

I am sizing to .3566 approx, and barrel is .3560 are they too small? (Possibly, if also alloy is too soft as it will hydraulically deform greatly especially if using fast loads)
Sizing larger resulted in more scraping with the 2 coated batch. (Where was the scraping occurring? I did not know that this is happening at any point)
I did a better job with the 3 thin coats, didn't slug test yet.
Maybe I should try some 358 and 356? to see? (Possibly would be OK, but if your alloy is too soft, it may not work also.)

I have sizing dies 356, 357, 358. I have ordered a 105 SWC mold, expecting it next week also.
I need to find a way to have cast boolits that do not lead. I don't want to just buy commercial copper plated. That's a fail.
(Many use wheel weight and add Tin in small amounts, or Scrap Soldering alloy, to get better results. in 9mm and other guns)

[kryogen]

if I have to buy tin or other alloys, it's not worth casting, I'll just buy cheap 124RN ammo at 90$ per 1000....

I should be able to shoot scrap WW without issues jesus.

[Ausglock]

5gn of Power pistol in a 9mm is a fairly stout load. Especially with soft alloy.
drop your load back a bit.

[kryogen]

Will back to min load if needed...

[Avenger442]

if I have to buy tin or other alloys, it's not worth casting, I'll just buy cheap 124RN ammo at 90$ per 1000....

I should be able to shoot scrap WW without issues jesus.

I have heard it said that some guns lead no matter what you do. I know some alloys don't take well to high pressure loads. Was just wondering if you have shot the same alloy through the same gun with another lube or coating with success?

[gunoil]

I want to buy some of these: then stain w/hitech. l have hornadays gc's.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/54A0FD11-20C8-430D-8253-11679BCFDDF1_zpssmwatc8r.png (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/54A0FD11-20C8-430D-8253-11679BCFDDF1_zpssmwatc8r.png.html)

Gotta WTB up but no luck. Heck, ya can get some leading out of plated bullets even.

[Avenger442]

I want a Lee mold that cost $20 or less and cast 150 grain "spire point" 30 cal. bullets.

[kryogen]

I have heard it said that some guns lead no matter what you do. I know some alloys don't take well to high pressure loads. Was just wondering if you have shot the same alloy through the same gun with another lube or coating with success?

well at this point I didnt have any success with any gun or coating but I was all over the place on too many specs. Has size/scraping/expander/crimp issues that caused many other problems.

Now I'm only trying with this specific gun.
Maybe I will try to ESPC a few of those specific boolits, with this specific load, to test, now that everything is setup for proper expansion, flare, OAL, crimp, etc, for this gun and bullet.

Now, the boolit is .0006 over bore only. Should I size it a bit larger, like 1.5 overbore, or that's overkill?

I'll try a few things next....

.356, .357, .358 water cooled after hitek.
Possibly also ESPC those same 3 sizes.
And then also, all reduced powder charges.

No other ideas for now.

Cant find any chore boy here locally or order for a good price (quebec, canada). How do you guys get rid of lead? I shot 70 leading boolits yesterday and now I have a mess to clean.... removing 80% of the lead isnt so bad with 20 or so strokes of a stiff brush, but removing close to 95% is really bad. need like 200 strokes, patches, solvents, .... hell.

[gunoil]

my try these products:

pistol barrel cleaning

barrel cleaning: Iosso Products Triple Action Oil Solution and paste Bore Cleaner. They also make a very tight fitting nylon brush for use with their Bore Cleaner.


1. Wet the bore with one patch of the Oil Solution.
2. 10-12 full strokes with brush coated with Bore Cleaner paste.
3. Follow with two patches with Oil Solution followed by two dry patches.


Repeat as many times as required to remove all deposits. ( you won't believe the crud that keeps coming out!)


Finish with a couple patches soaked with Butch's Bore Shine and a couple to dry the bore.


Run one patch coated with liquid graphite through the bore and you're done.


mike

[ioon44]

well at this point I didnt have any success with any gun or coating but I was all over the place on too many specs. Has size/scraping/expander/crimp issues that caused many other problems.

Now I'm only trying with this specific gun.
Maybe I will try to ESPC a few of those specific boolits, with this specific load, to test, now that everything is setup for proper expansion, flare, OAL, crimp, etc, for this gun and bullet.

Now, the boolit is .0006 over bore only. Should I size it a bit larger, like 1.5 overbore, or that's overkill?

I'll try a few things next....

.356, .357, .358 water cooled after hitek.
Possibly also ESPC those same 3 sizes.
And then also, all reduced powder charges.

No other ideas for now.

Cant find any chore boy here locally or order for a good price (quebec, canada). How do you guys get rid of lead? I shot 70 leading boolits yesterday and now I have a mess to clean.... removing 80% of the lead isnt so bad with 20 or so strokes of a stiff brush, but removing close to 95% is really bad. need like 200 strokes, patches, solvents, .... hell.

I like to run my cast boolits at .002" overbore, overkill maybe but it works.

Using straight CWW in 9mm is not what I would expect to work air cooled, this used to OK in .45 ACP when CWW were better alloy.

I know you don't want to add any harder alloy to your CWW, but just a small amount of lino or mono type could make a big difference.

If I could I would send you a couple 100 of my hand cast 9mm just to try.

[Sticky]

well at this point I didnt have any success with any gun or coating but I was all over the place on too many specs. Has size/scraping/expander/crimp issues that caused many other problems.

Now I'm only trying with this specific gun.
Maybe I will try to ESPC a few of those specific boolits, with this specific load, to test, now that everything is setup for proper expansion, flare, OAL, crimp, etc, for this gun and bullet.

Now, the boolit is .0006 over bore only. Should I size it a bit larger, like 1.5 overbore, or that's overkill?

I'll try a few things next....

.356, .357, .358 water cooled after hitek.
Possibly also ESPC those same 3 sizes.
And then also, all reduced powder charges.

No other ideas for now.

Cant find any chore boy here locally or order for a good price (quebec, canada). How do you guys get rid of lead? I shot 70 leading boolits yesterday and now I have a mess to clean.... removing 80% of the lead isnt so bad with 20 or so strokes of a stiff brush, but removing close to 95% is really bad. need like 200 strokes, patches, solvents, .... hell.

Half a thou over bore seems smallish. You may be getting gas cutting and leading as a result. I would try sizing to at least .001 over, perhaps .002".

PM sent re Chore Boy.. ;)

[kryogen]

Ok, I will try to size some at .358 and water quench out of the oven. We will see how it works.
Also will reduce load. I don't care if I shoot slow loads, I just want to shoot loads that do not lead.

Thanks for the comments.

As
for the chore boy, I remember seeing some locally but cannot remember where and I cannot find it anymore. Will try to check around this weekend and if I cant find some I'll pm you sticky thanks.

[Beagle333]

O-cedar also makes some 100% copper scrubbing pads, if you can't find Chore Boy locally.

[Sticky]

You may also try Bronze wool, available at any marine supply... I know some use steel wool (very fine), but I would opt for bronze over steel and keep it fine.

[Ausglock]

Get a Lewis Lead remover. It uses brass mesh on a cleaning rod type thing.
Works fast and 100%.

What is the fascination with wheel weights? they are of questionable quality and zero consistancy.
If you don't want to "add to the cost" of your alloy by using a bit of solder, or buying hardball alloy, then maybe store bought coated is your best option. Have you tried commercial coated bullets in this gun?