simple Hi-Tek coating

[Ausglock]

So I found a house oven that the guy said it's a speed oven. Its a older model. I take it it's the same as a convection oven? I can get one for 200. You all know how hard it's been for me. Do you guys know for sure if the full size house ovens have enough air movement for Hi-Tek? I don't want to have to modify it any.

G'day Tony.
I assume your eyes are not painted on.
Open the door of the oven. look inside and see if you can see a fan on the back of the oven wall.
If there is, then it is convection aka fan forced oven.
All good.
How hard was that???
Then plug the sucker in and try it.

[TonyN]

Glock I'm asking if a factory oven like these have enough air movement? I don't want to pay for something if they don't move much air. A counter top convection oven should work but I have found they barely move air.

[TonyN]

I'm asking if anyone has a full size house oven if they move a lot of air?

[HI-TEK]

I may be totally wrong here, and I am happy to be corrected, but I have rightly or wrongly come to the conclusion that Tony N is baiting and having us all on. I cannot believe that any one after one year of trying cannot coat cast alloy.
We seem to be going from one alleged problem to another, then back again, starting from the beginning, sideways, and in all other directions..
Quite frankly, I was very happy to assist, but now I am not so keen.

[dikman]

As Trev said, if it's got a fan (usually mounted on the back wall) then it's a fan-forced oven, which is designed to move hot air. As long as the fan's working, and the oven heats up, then it should work for coating boolits. It will require trial-and-error to work out how many it can successfully cure and the time setting needed, which will be determined by how quickly it will heat up. No-one can say how well it will work until you try it (asking how much air they will move is pretty irrelevant in this context, as long as it's moving air that's all you need to worry about).

I really can't see what the problem is.

[benellinut]

Here's a handy feature, go to upper right corner, click on your user name then "UserCP"
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Down on the left side of the new screen under "My Settings" click on "Edit Ignore List"
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On last screen fill in user name, then click "OK" on the right side of screen. Once done you'll never see posts by any users added to the list.
(Click pic to enlarge)
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[Ausglock]

Sweet..... Thanks.

[Ausglock]

I'm asking if anyone has a full size house oven if they move a lot of air?

yes. A normal house oven will move enough air.

[HATCH]

TonyN isn’t playing dumb. He is asking a serous question because he has been having issues with coating.
He contacted me about a issue and was asking if a PID would fix his problem.

I use a $100 convection countertop oven that I got from Amazon.

[HI-TEK]

TonyN isn’t playing dumb. He is asking a serous question because he has been having issues with coating.
He contacted me about a issue and was asking if a PID would fix his problem.

I use a $100 convection countertop oven that I got from Amazon.

Hatch,
Thanks for your input, most appreciated.
What concerns me, (and many others on this site) is that despite numerous and detailed advice being provided by members, over and over, from what is being published by TonyN thereafter, is not what was advised. Simply put, he is not taking any advice seriously, and is determined to do things his way. When it does not work, he then starts again, despite his not following previous advice given.
In 25 years, I have never had any one that was not successful in using the coatings within a few attempts.
To date, no one previously had continued failures for 12 months.
I am really concerned, that TonyN is posting to having such problems, and over such a long time, or,..it has to be questioned, are these failure posts, another agenda playing out?
I may be over sceptical, but am also very concerned for obvious reasons.
From many private messages I received, and posts made by others, it really is a mystery that needs resolving.
Hi-Tek

[TonyN]

Hi-Tek I'm very serious about this Hi-Tek issue. Of it doesn't cure in 15 min. And I never once have issues with PC then I don't know why. Iv been trying to give your product a real try. I truly want this to work out but how about you refund my money and I'll put it into PC... I really don't like Glock attitude and your comment about how I keep having issues. Iv tried everything you guys tell me. Maybe that's why there are so many more using PC then Hi-Tek. There are so many more using PC then Hi-Tek.

I have 6 colors of your product. I would really hait to waste it all.

[benellinut]

Refund because you won't follow what your told??? The questions you asked today you asked more then a week ago and you had multiple replies giving you the answers, Ausglock even posted pictures of his "house oven" and yet you ask once again if a convection house oven will work, we already told you YES. You have a history of asking questions repeatedly after they have been answered now you seem offended? The folks here have gone above and beyond to help you out, sorry but no pity shed here. I'm out.

[TonyN]

His oven is Not a normal house oven correct? He has done mods to it to get it to where it's at correct? Thank you I'm glad you found your way out of this convection. Likebi said before. Tons more use PC then this product. You can tell by the post. I shouldn't have to get a special oven or anything special to get this to work. I did PC and for it to work great the first time. In wanting to have both options in coating. I have done upwards to 15 min. And it still wipes off with the acetone test. You tell me what's the issue is then .

[benellinut]

One LAST comment, if PC has been working so well for you, why, after a year, are you still trying so hard to get HiTek to work?

Granted folks new to HiTek come and ask questions but in short order they find out where they are going wrong and 99% of the time it's because they didn't follow the instructions. Where are all the other folks posting that no matter what they try they just can't HiTek to work? You're standing alone on that issue after such a long time, after being given so much advice and that's raising eyebrows.

[glockfan]

Hi-Tek I'm very serious about this Hi-Tek issue. Of it doesn't cure in 15 min. And I never once have issues with PC then I don't know why. Iv been trying to give your product a real try. I truly want this to work out but how about you refund my money and I'll put it into PC... I really don't like Glock attitude and your comment about how I keep having issues. Iv tried everything you guys tell me. Maybe that's why there are so many more using PC then Hi-Tek. There are so many more using PC then Hi-Tek.

I have 6 colors of your product. I would really hait to waste it all.




sorry my friend, but you're completely off track right now.

either you're serving an hidden agenda,or you don't follow the recipe correctly. even me who is a complete idiot when it comes to cooking things i've succeeded at cooking my boolits correctly; the finish don't peel, it support the hammer and the acetone test.

i'm using 2 oven,one is a 80 $ black'n'decker convection type oven,the other one is a similar master chef unit . both are on the cheap side.

it is simple. assuming you mix the powder correctly with the indicated amount of acetone and powder, you must also use the correct amount of mixture for the amount of bullet you need to coat. 20 grams of powder for 100ml of acetone .you should use 1ml of the mixture for each pound of bullet .

. when you do the coating part, you must shake the whole assembly for 20 seconds just enough to make sure all the bullets are wet, but dont wait till all the acetone is all gone-evaporated to the point where you you hear a muffled sound of the bullets bouncing dry in the bucket.at that point,it,s too late.

you must drop the bullets on the baking plate , still wet. then the best way to dry them is with a little 20 dollars fan. you must wait till the bullets are completely dry ...DRYDRYDRY....

in the pre heated oven, you should have an separate thermometer to see if the oven setting is right.400 F is the right temp for cooking hi tek.

10 minutes should do the trick, but sometimes, a little less could be it, depending of the oven used..it is NOT rocket science trust me.

of course, the first few batch must be seen as testing. after the first bake,take one bullet once they're cool enough to be handled safely and do the hammer test. easy. if it,s ok, then you cool them entirely under the fan for half an hour,till they're completely at room temp,and resume the recipe for
a second baking round.

done.


tony..you say you have 6 pounds of the hi tek products in different colors....over here, i have a very, very tough time at finding some...i only have couple onces of the zombie green left,after that,i'm done. the hi tek distributor here has no hi tek for sale....sooo,if you decide to let this go and you decide to get back to PC,i will gladly buy the hi tek you still have .

[Ausglock]

Tony.
My oven is a normal domestic wall oven. The only thing I have done to it is remove all the electronics and replace them with a PID to control temp and a timer. The fan is stock standard. same speed as factory spec.

It might just be me. But Not everyone gets the Aussie humour.

Get your domestic oven. coat some bullets and try the bastard!!! That is the only way to find out. Nobody else can do it for you.
FFS... I'm 1/2 a world away and many time zones apart.

If you like the powdercoat, go for it. Personally, I tried it and found it too slow and dirty. bloody powder all over the place. Bloody bullets falling over and having to bake for 20 minutes. Bugger that.

Sell your Hitek powder to Glockfan. I'm sure he will snap it up.

Oh... And Tony... Lighten the **** up... We are trying to help. You're not the first person I have upset....will not be the last....:bigsmyl2:

[HI-TEK]

TonyN,
I have replied to your post in Red as below.
It seems that you have offended quite a few, and it also seems now that I may have been correct about a hidden agenda, and others appear to feel the same way.
I cannot understand, why you want to use Hi-Tek coatings, struggle for a year, and don't just keep using powder coat?
Your actions do not make any sense to me.
Wait, I again may be totally wrong here, I again wonder, if for 12months, your actions/posts were to try and bad mouth the Hi-Tek coating by telling all who listened about your bad experiences????
Question must be asked, do you own or have a business or sell powdered coatings????

I may be wrong here, but the Hi-Tek product is used in some 28 countries by hundreds of thousands of people, and, many in fact had converted from Powder coating and other lubes. I wonder why that is?????




Hi-Tek I'm very serious about this Hi-Tek issue. Of it doesn't cure in 15 min.
What issue???? If you had followed simple instructions correctly, such a failure is not possible unless your equipment is not adequate. You cant blame the Hi-Tek coating for poor quality equipment you cant control. Powder coat requires 20 minutes at 200C to cook correctly.

And I never once have issues with PC then I don't know why.
Again, if you had all this success with powder coating, why would you bother changing????

Iv been trying to give your product a real try. Quite frankly, I very much doubt this claim.

I truly want this to work out but how about you refund my money and I'll put it into PC...First, I have never sold you any coatings. If you want any refund, you need to contact seller where you purchased the product.

I really don't like Glock attitude and your comment about how I keep having issues. I cannot speak on behalf of Glock, and his attitude. As for myself, my "attitude" results from your on going activity

Iv tried everything you guys tell me. Maybe that's why there are so many more using PC then Hi-Tek. There are so many more using PC then Hi-Tek.
That is offensive to all users of the Hi-Tek coatings. I do not know where you obtained comparative use figures. Please advise your source of such data claims?

I have 6 colors of your product. I would really hait to waste it all.
Again I don't understand, why would you buy 6 different coloured Hi-Tek coatings when you cannot make a single one work????
Waste the Hi-Tek ?????, many will be happy to take it off your hands

[HATCH]

tony’s problem is that even after following directions His Boolits will not pass the acetone wipe test. That is how he is thinking that he isn’t doing it correctly.
I told him to increase cook time.
He has two thermometers that hang in his oven.
Both are reading the same temp and they are stable.

If increasing the cook time doesn’t solve it then you need to stick with PC
I will buy the remaining unopened containers that you have.

[HI-TEK]

tony’s problem is that even after following directions His Boolits will not pass the acetone wipe test. That is how he is thinking that he isn’t doing it correctly.
I told him to increase cook time.
He has two thermometers that hang in his oven.
Both are reading the same temp and they are stable.

If increasing the cook time doesn’t solve it then you need to stick with PC
I will buy the remaining unopened containers that you have.

Thanks Hatch,
With instructions provided it is clearly stated, that both the coating and alloy must get to 180C and stay there or above for 3 more minutes to cure correctly. This advice has been posted over and over and over on this site, and was also advised to TonyN many times by several members.

It really does not matter how long it takes to get the load in oven to required temperature. The time taken to get coated alloy load to 180C and keep it there or at higher temperature, all will depend on your oven.

Fan forced ovens work much better and faster, and provide much more even heat distribution and faster heat transfer. Each user has to determine how his or her equipment works and at what point best results can be obtained.

As expressed, my concerns are that whatever TonyN is using simply does not measure up to requirements. He then continues blame the coating for not working.

Simply hanging a thermometer inside oven does not guarantee that what he is reading is correct.
Again, I will explain why I said this.
Many years ago, a commercial caster made a flow through conveyor oven. He placed a tray of projectiles on conveyor. Thermometer inside oven read 200C. When tray emerged after 12 minutes from oven, the centre of tray was not baked, and projectiles at edges of tray were melted. So, temperature variation inside oven was more that 100C from what was displayed on the thermometer.

So reading temperature of air at specific point in the oven is not representative of what is actually happening, especially if inadequate air circulation is the problem or there is over loading of oven where oven cannot cope.

Time of load inside oven, greatly depends on load, ovens ability to provide adequate heat and maintain even heat, to get load to at least 180C.

Every oven is different, even if it same brand. Temperature control can be out plus or minus 50 degrees Celsius or more.

Measuring air at a specific point is not what is required. I as well as many others tried and tried and tried to explain this to TonyN, to no avail.
What seems to be lost is, that we supply coatings with instructions. We don't supply or design ovens, we don't advise people to make electric alterations to ovens so it is annoying to get such comments as witnessed.
Quite frankly (pardon the pun) I am fed up with trying to help when that help is not used or accepted. Conditions of cure is clearly specified. How users get there will depend on equipment used. It is very obvious that FrankN really does not have correct equipment, or that he really wants to make product work, or is he wanting to continue to simply "bad mouth" the product.
The last blog by him appears to have said it all.
Sorry for my rant, but enough is enough.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Maybe Tony has a contaminant on his cast Bullets?
Some type of oil use to lube the sprue plate? Dropping into a dirty old rag that has oil on it?
Dirty container to tumble in?

[HI-TEK]

Maybe Tony has a contaminant on his cast Bullets?
Some type of oil use to lube the sprue plate? Dropping into a dirty old rag that has oil on it?
Dirty container to tumble in?

Thanks for your input.
In the last 12 months, we discovered that TonyN's alloy was highly contaminated with Zinc and other impurities. Many had tried to help and advise how to obtain a reasonable alloy how to remove Zinc and other contaminants. To this date, we have no idea what he is doing, as after 15 minutes his baked coating simply washes off with solvent.
Then he wanted to rewire his oven, and had no idea of electricals. He was advised to use a certified electrician to do the work. This was not done.
Many had advised TonyN that he requires clean alloy with no other lubes that may contaminate cast. No reply and it is really not known what and how he does things.
This is all a mystery.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Thanks for your input.
In the last 12 months, we discovered that TonyN's alloy was highly contaminated with Zinc and other impurities. Many had tried to help and advise how to obtain a reasonable alloy how to remove Zinc and other contaminants. To this date, we have no idea what he is doing, as after 15 minutes his baked coating simply washes off with solvent.
Then he wanted to rewire his oven, and had no idea of electricals. He was advised to use a certified electrician to do the work. This was not done.
Many had advised TonyN that he requires clean alloy with no other lubes that may contaminate cast. No reply and it is really not known what and how he does things.
This is all a mystery.


Understood.

I can’t see why anyone who tried PC and Hi-tek with proper instruction on both would ever choose PC.
I saw a recent article in handloader magazine about PC. Bullet looked terrible and accuracy was less than traditional lube sized bullets.
Doesn’t seem worth it to me.

[HATCH]

Didn’t read back far enough to know this went on 12 months.

Tony, if you have any further questions I suggest that you contact the supplier that you got the product from and see if they can assist you.
We have taken up enough space on this thread already.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ausglock]

Didn’t read back far enough to know this went on 12 months.

Tony, if you have any further questions I suggest that you contact the supplier that you got the product from and see if they can assist you.
We have taken up enough space on this thread already.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep. I agree.

[Avenger442]

I have just kind of sat back for the last couple of days and watched without adding my voice to this discussion. I think that maybe a little oil needs to be put on the water. And the volume be tuned back a bit on both sides. Ha, listen to me talk about tuning it back. It has taken me sixty seven years to learn how to just be a little diplomatic and quite in my reply.

There are those that consider a product that competes against one they think is the best or have been using to be somehow a threat. Some kind of attack. And they will try to disparage the product and find fault where there is none. Not a very objective attitude. We have seen the same thing go on between traditional lubes and what can be called the alternative lubes (which includes more than HT and PC). Some of the real old time guys really don't care for alternative lubes. Seems it violates the tradition of what has been used for many years. Kinda like most guys when I was growing up having a favorite car make. Some guys were Chevrolet others were Ford and then there were the Dodge and Chrysler guys. Tony may be this.

Or he may be like the guy I had working on a crew under me back when I was a Field Engineer. I would tell the guy how to do something that was the way of providing the results we wanted and he would not do it or not do it the way that I asked him to. The guy wasn't dumb and actually was a guy I grew up with and we were friends. He just couldn't or wouldn't seem to get it and wasn't cut out for the job.

Point is we don't "know" Tony is any of these. And Tony if you read this I'm not suggesting you are either one. My offer to do on site help is still open. What we do know is that he has had what seems to be an unusual number of problems and at times success with Hi Tek. He has asked for help multiple times. And, to this groups credit, received it to the point that has frustrated some. Including, at times, myself. Might add I agree with someone who said what they said about the stove. Get it and see if it works. Not sure I would spend that kinda money on it, but that seems to be the logical thing to do with the responses that have been given.

We also know Hi Tek works as a lube. It is not all that labor intensive either physically or mentally to use. Not especially messy when applying, unless your me and get it on your hands. Yes I know Joe I should wear gloves. It's cheap to use. And it will help produce accurate ammunition if we do the other things that that requires. I would say as accurate as any store bought with much much less cost. And that, for me, is where it comes to the end. If I can't use it and it be thrifty and make the round accurate it is not where I want to go and will look for something else.

Is PC any better. I would say no based on what I have shot. But I have never done the whole process of PCing bullets. I've just loaded and shot some that someone coated for me. I didn't see anything in those loads that would recommend or cause me to switch to PC over Hi Tek. I once told another member of this forum that I might try PC one day but have never found a reason to do that and several to keep using Hi Tek. If someone were to ask me which one lube I would recommend they try I would have to say Hi Tek. That's where the majority of my experience is and that has been a good experience.

But back to Tony, my suggestion is that if we have some help that he has not been given in the past year or so to solve his problems we give it. If not, simply reply that that problem has been addressed maybe even give him the post number or not reply at all.

And while I'm on the subject of recent post. Treavor I have not had a problem with the way you put stuff, due to my tempering in the construction industry. It is not exclusive to your country. It is just like over here in certain groups of people you find more abrasive attitudes. The construction industry, especially in the field, is not where you need to be if you are easily offended. The guys in the field actually like to see if they can offend you. I gives them great delight to know they have. I'm sure I could find something that offended any person. Let's face it the world is full of stuff that is offensive to someone somewhere. And most of it ought to be just ignored.

[Ausglock]

And while I'm on the subject of recent post. Treavor I have not had a problem with the way you put stuff, due to my tempering in the construction industry. It is not exclusive to your country. It is just like over here in certain groups of people you find more abrasive attitudes. The construction industry, especially in the field, is not where you need to be if you are easily offended. The guys in the field actually like to see if they can offend you. I gives them great delight to know they have. I'm sure I could find something that offended any person. Let's face it the world is full of stuff that is offensive to someone somewhere. And most of it ought to be just ignored.


Ha... yep 40 plus years in a sawmill has made my skin very thick and immune to offence.
But I understand that some people are just not cut out for certain things. If I come across as abrupt, then is it from dealing with dropkicks for the said 40 years.

As they say... you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

As I said. I tried the PC, but it was too messy and slow for large production. But if it works for someone, then go for it.

[dikman]

I must admit I'm really curious to know why Tony is still having these problems. As has been said many times, it's not "rocket science". Once the principles behind the coating are understood the only real variable is getting an oven sorted and once that's done it's almost idiotproof (I stand as proof of that statement!!). I'm using a cheap non-convection oven and have done several thousand boolits in it and yes, I've had a couple of problems but they were my fault, not due to the product.

Most perplexing.......

[eljefeoz]

TonyN
tell you what, on a weekend, I can walk you through the process on skype- PM me for the details.
I have an oven /Toaster / i bought on Gumtree for $10, an oven thermometer ,another $9, an assortment of used fish oil/Vit d conatiners.
Ive done about 2000 to date, had them going from batch2-batch one looked leprous, ,I didnt know they were fine, so melted them...
The alloy ranged from sheet lead to BHN 30 Foundrytype. calibers from 12 ga Lyman, lee 7/8 12 ga ,lee TL for .45, lee 0.312 for .303 and 7.62x39, Saeco 160 gr, RCBS 145 SIl and 160 gr for 7x57, 280 gr 0.368" from a CBE mould for 9.3x62 and 380 gr 0.425" for .404 J. I'm waiting for an RCBS .224 mould...

I also have a redundant RCBS LAM2 lubesizer-cleaned and now used only as a sizer, about 20x 200gr cans of various lubes- Satan's being my favourite. Matter of fact, I lubed a batch of hitek-ed projjies as I was scared of leading.Truth be told.
My projjies range in appearance from leprous to slick as snot to sandpaper rough ( thick coating)
but NONE have ever leaded.Period.
for someone with ten left handed thumbs,I am in awe of my capabilities. [smilie=s:

[glockfan]

I must admit I'm really curious to know why Tony is still having these problems. As has been said many times, it's not "rocket science". Once the principles behind the coating are understood the only real variable is getting an oven sorted and once that's done it's almost idiotproof (I stand as proof of that statement!!). I'm using a cheap non-convection oven and have done several thousand boolits in it and yes, I've had a couple of problems but they were my fault, not due to the product.

Most perplexing.......



i too think that most problems encountered are either contaminated boolits,not leaving the coating drying enough before baking , OR an inconsistent oven..

i' m a total beginer at coating my boolits , and i'm the kind of guy who has a tough time cooking water
for my coffee (this said to illustrate how without my wife i would die from inanition lol) , so of course i was a little nervous cooking my first batch, and in fact i messed it ; i realized afterward that it was my fault ; i was so eager to cook that i did not left the boolits drying enough on the tray before baking them on the 1st coat ; then, sure enough , a second coating over a 1st coat not correctly done isn't a cure.

after my first failed attempt, i bought a little 20 dollars fan,and left the coating alone under the fan for half an hour before baking and guess what? success!! now i have '''noted''' how my oven work,i will never ever have a problem again. the only thing i'm going to do is getting a PID for both my ovens; not because it's mandatory for good results, only because i can and it's a fun project since i know that from now on i will never ever shoot anything else than my own casted hi tek'ed boolits . i added a small brick on the bottom of each oven to help the recovery time when you open the oven door,that's it. it helped in that matter.

[slide]

I don't think there is anything else that can be done for TonyN. A lot of people have tried with no luck. Hi-Tek is just not going to work for you. Be glad that pc does, refine that technique and keep on choogling! Good luck to you!

[wlkjr]

It's definitely not rocket science. A little common sense sure helps though. I always rinse all my raw casts in a small Folgers coffee can with acetone and then drain, pour out on my cooking screen to dry and then coat. That pretty much assures that any contamination in handling is washed away. My coating procedure is not standard as I don't measure precisely the amount I squirt on the casts, but I have learned what amount works for me. I preheat my B&D large convection oven at least 20 minutes prior to cooking and I have two steel plates in the bottom for heat retention. This allows me to cook 8-10 pounds of boolits at a time. If I could not get this to work in a year and powder coating worked for me otherwise, I'd choose the one that was easiest. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is insanity, or maybe plain stupidity.
Only problem I have not been able to conquer is the slight leading I get in all 4 of our G42's. Might be my lead composition, regular wheel weights. All my 9mm and .45acp work great and all pistols are Glocks. I have probably coated at least 15-20,000 since I started. I think I had a couple of smash test that flaked a little but loaded them up anyway and they worked fine. Great coating you guys. Keep up the good work.

[glockfan]

^^^^^
so,you still experience some barrel fooling even with the coating? might it be because it is not completely baked and the boolits doesn't pass the smash-acetone test? i'm guessing that when the hi tek is correctly done, you're not supposed to have any leading in the barrel because hi tek is sealing-enclosing the boolit completely.....if you have some leading,something is wrong with the baking-cure part of the process....

[Ausglock]

You can get leading for different reasons.

My Para 45ACP leaded badly. I had to get the barrel throated with a reamer. Since then, it has been lead free.

Leading can also be caused by bullet dia. not correct for the bore.
I have S&W 686 357Mag revolvers that hate .358dia bullets. But love .3565dia.

So. Leading is not just a coating failure issue.

[wlkjr]

^^^^^
so,you still experiment some barrel fooling even with the coating? might it be because it is not completely baked and the boolits doesn't pass the smash-acetone test? i'm guessing that when the hi tek is correctly done, you're not supposed to have any leading in the barrel because hi tek is sealing-enclosing the boolit completely.....if you have some leading,something is wrong with the baking-cure part of the process....

Same process as I use with the other calibers, except even coating three times. It is not a heavy leading but a gradual build up over a period of about 200 rounds or more. I'm sizing at .357 for the .380. If you look into the barrel it just looks like a very dull coating. It has not caused any kind of problems and accuracy is not affected, but it is a minor irritation to keep dealing with.

[wlkjr]

You can get leading for different reasons.

My Para 45ACP leaded badly. I had to get the barrel throated with a reamer. Since then, it has been lead free.

Leading can also be caused by bullet dia. not correct for the bore.
I have S&W 686 357Mag revolvers that hate .358dia bullets. But love .3565dia.

So. Leading is not just a coating failure issue.

I don't think it is a coating issue. Maybe I need to size smaller.

[glockfan]

interesting observation...i've learned that an ''undersized''' bare lead boolit is gonna lead a barrel, whereas a little oversized round is desirable.is the same equation apply with a hi tek'ed boolit ?

[glockfan]

guys !! ausglock and MR hitek...just wanted to share my pride and joy....my third attempt turned so great. after tweaking both my ovens by adding a brick on the bottom to help the recovery time,i've realized that MY ovens gives me PERFECT results settled at 385 for 10 minutes.

also, my new honeywell little fan produced some magics in the sens that i now only have to wait 10 minutes between coatings . it really speed up the process.

my new batch passed the hammer and acetone test with ease. i'm so happy with how it turned out...and i have now MY recipe , and i know from now on each batch will be crowned with success ; and take note that it took only 2 coats to produce these beauties.

these are the lee 356120 tc . they will be loaded over 3.5 grs of VV320 at coal 1.130 to be shot in my glock 17 limited gun.
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they're perfect.the finish is very slick. i've resized them at .356,and they left nothing in the die. no flakes,no color...nothing.very,very nice boolits. couldn't be happier ,because i've took notes of the process that work very good,and i've saved a lot of time the way i'm doing it now. i'm now a hi tek die hard fan,and i have some eastwood ford light blue for sale LOL!!!

[Ausglock]

Nice..
But.....
You might be using too much coating.
The "lube groove" should not have that much coating in it.
There should be slight bare lead in there.

BTW... what brand of thumbrest is that?
Would love to get one for my G35 in 357Sig.

[glockfan]

Nice..
But.....
You might be using too much coating.
The "lube groove" should not have that much coating in it.
There should be slight bare lead in there.

BTW... what brand of thumbrest is that?
Would love to get one for my G35 in 357Sig.

is this a problem? i mean,is the fact some product found its way into the lub grooves would make the round unstable or something ?

as for the frame weight thumbrest assembly, just let me know..i have one in aluminum with the 3d thumbrest i don't use because i prefer the heavier brass version. i could send it your way if ever you're interested. the cool part is that you don't need to drill the frame to put the thumbrest at work ; but you need to install the frame weight to use the thumbrest. let me know, i could get one in brass for you....if ever for some reasons you can't order from the dealer i got it.

[Ausglock]

It doesn't cause and issues. Just that it is wasting coating.
6mls to 2.5Kg of alloy works great for me with a 20mgs to 100 ml mix.

What colour is that? Gold 1035?? looks a bit light for Old Gold.

[glockfan]

It doesn't cause and issues. Just that it is wasting coating.
6mls to 2.5Kg of alloy works great for me with a 20mgs to 100 ml mix.

What colour is that? Gold 1035?? looks a bit light for Old Gold.

that's how it turned out this time,but the little pot was labeled as zombie green.when you look at it it's green but with some yellowiish reflects.

[HI-TEK]

that's how it turned out this time,but the little pot was labeled as zombie green.when you look at it it's green but with some yellowiish reflects.

Hello glockfan
Just a couple of questions on this batch.
When you made up coating mixture, how long did you mix and let it sit before use?
What I can see on one picture, is that a couple towards the bottom of picture seem more Tan than others.
Not a problem, but this suggests at this stage, a little too much baking, or a high temperature cook, or both, and heating was not quote even across your tray.
If it is over cooked, no problem at all, but you can expect product going towards a Yellow/Tan colour.
If it was Zombie Green, the extra heat or longer heating, or both, made the product more towards the Yellow shade which overcame the Green colour..
Your final colour then may be not exactly as it should be, but with all your tests, the coating seems to have bonded well.
Now load and shoot a few to see how you go.
Well done....

[eljefeoz]

Trev, I’ve been thinking it’s my fault. The no coating in the lube groove...
Ran a test batch of 0.285” and 0.423” with Texas Tea I got today. and find the lube grooves were not coated.this has also happened with same projjies using bronze 502


I’m using 5gr in 25ml acetone for a maximum of 3 coats. I Mix small as I run small batches.

[ioon44]

On my first coat most of the lube groove is not coated and I go heavy on the second coat to get the lube groove coated just for cosmetic and don't have problems with the smash and wipe test.

I have a question on drying in cold weather, in hot weather laying the screens of bullets out on my dark colored deck the temp gets up to 150 deg F(65 deg C) and need gloves to handle the screens.

I am thinking of using my convection oven on low setting to dry the coating in 32 deg F (0 deg C ) weather.

Question is at what point above 150 deg F will the coating go from drying to baking and mess up the process?

[glockfan]

Hello glockfan
Just a couple of questions on this batch.
When you made up coating mixture, how long did you mix and let it sit before use?
What I can see on one picture, is that a couple towards the bottom of picture seem more Tan than others.
Not a problem, but this suggests at this stage, a little too much baking, or a high temperature cook, or both, and heating was not quote even across your tray.
If it is over cooked, no problem at all, but you can expect product going towards a Yellow/Tan colour.
If it was Zombie Green, the extra heat or longer heating, or both, made the product more towards the Yellow shade which overcame the Green colour..
Your final colour then may be not exactly as it should be, but with all your tests, the coating seems to have bonded well.
Now load and shoot a few to see how you go.
Well done....

thanks for your interest on my experimentations.

did not let sit the product before application. mixed it,then applyed.

and i'm still into some sort of ''fine tuning''' of my recipe...and yes, since i'm not setting my oven temp to 385,the only other factor is the baking time which i will reduce to 9 minutes...then will try 8 minutes to see how it bonds...but so far, i'm really happy with the result because at least, i'm now in the right ball park. will shoot those peas on sunday at the range. was supposed to attend an IPSC match this week end, but had to cancel my registration because of family obligations grrrr.

[Ausglock]

When you mix the powder and acetone, Leave it to react for at least 1/2 hour.
It allows all the components in the powder to homogenise with the acetone.

Ion44.
So long as the coated alloy is warmer than your hand when you touch them is fine.
That is why I use a fan heater blowing warm air over the trays before they are backed. You get the same thing by sitting the tray on top ov the oven to prewarm them.

[HI-TEK]

On my first coat most of the lube groove is not coated and I go heavy on the second coat to get the lube groove coated just for cosmetic and don't have problems with the smash and wipe test.
What you are doing is just fine. Lube grooves do not really take any part in shooting, it was originally there for stuffing all sorts of lubes into it allegedly to lubricate the bore.

I have a question on drying in cold weather, in hot weather laying the screens of bullets out on my dark colored deck the temp gets up to 150 deg F(65 deg C) and need gloves to handle the screens.
150F is OK as long at it does not start to get higher. It will be certainly dry much quicker. I have not had any tests done to see what happens with coating at those temperatures, but if it works, then all is good.

I am thinking of using my convection oven on low setting to dry the coating in 32 deg F (0 deg C ) weather.
Just be careful here, you are heating solvents inside an oven and it can become a dangerous situation with a hot element and go BOOOM

Question is at what point above 150 deg F will the coating go from drying to baking and mess up the process?
I would not go above this temperature. I cant predict what will happen. May be this is another experiment for someone.

I think that warm air drying of first coat may be OK if temperatures of coated alloy are warmed to between 120F and 150F for about 20-30 minutes. (preferably not inside enclosed ovens, flammable solvent vapours can build up) This is particular important if conditions are cold, or damp/humid. We have had experiences where wet clothes would not dry because of saturated humidity at 35 degrees Celsius. We had to turn on a fan to get some sort of forced drying. Locals here use cheap fan forced heaters to blow warm air onto trays when it is cold/wet and or humid.
Thanks much for your input so far, much appreciated.

[dikman]

ioon, I'm faced with the same issue in Winter (although not quite as cold as you get) so I set the oven to about 80*F and leave them in there for a while to dry. Once I start the baking process, and the oven is hotter, I sit the next tray on top of the oven to dry while the one inside is baking (like Trev said). It works ok for me.

[HI-TEK]

Trev, I’ve been thinking it’s my fault. The no coating in the lube groove...
Ran a test batch of 0.285” and 0.423” with Texas Tea I got today. and find the lube grooves were not coated.this has also happened with same projjies using bronze 502


I’m using 5gr in 25ml acetone for a maximum of 3 coats. I Mix small as I run small batches.

eljefeoz
Thanks for your updates. Just a quick point, don't be afraid to make up more coating mix. You will find that mixing small amounts can produce some variations as you are dealing with small quantities, and Acetone evaporates very fast, so making 25 mls mix, a great deal of your Acetone will simply evaporate and you will be unsure of your final mix concentration.
Larger made up ready to use mixes, can be stored in tight sealed bottles/containers out of sunlight or heat. Then, when needed again, all you do is mix well, take your quantity required to coat, and when finished, re-seal container and put it away for next time. I have been told that pre made mixes have been used months after they were made up and worked OK, but colour was darker and brew was a little thicker. No worries, simply add a little more Acetone to thin, and coat again.
That is it. As we have said many times, it is not rocket science.
Happy coating.

[eljefeoz]

Thanks , Joe.
Mixed up a normal 100 ml 20 grams batch. The Texas tea went a little darker. I overcooked it by a few minutes, I guess. But all fine with the acetone rub and smash.
Now to look for a bigger oven. The little guy can’t handle more than 50 at a go. Either insulation inside,or smuggle in an op shop oven into the man cave.
Rocket science it’s not. :bigsmyl2:

[ioon44]

I would not go above this temperature. I cant predict what will happen. May be this is another experiment for someone.

I think that warm air drying of first coat may be OK if temperatures of coated alloy are warmed to between 120F and 150F for about 20-30 minutes. (preferably not inside enclosed ovens, flammable solvent vapours can build up) This is particular important if conditions are cold, or damp/humid. We have had experiences where wet clothes would not dry because of saturated humidity at 35 degrees Celsius. We had to turn on a fan to get some sort of forced drying. Locals here use cheap fan forced heaters to blow warm air onto trays when it is cold/wet and or humid.
Thanks much for your input so far, much appreciated.

I tried the convection oven to force dry the coated bullets after setting them outside for 30 min so most of the acetone flashed off, the oven would not operate below 170 deg F so after 2 to 3 min the bullets were almost to hot to touch 150 deg F + or - . After doing a few trays I baked them and they passed the test, not the way I would want to do it all the time but it seemed to work with the ambient temp at 30 deg F .

I use a fan forced heater to blow warm air onto a cabinet which holds up to 16 trays but this only works if the ambient temp is 40 to 50 deg F, when it is hotter I just put them out in the sunshine where they can reach 120 deg F or more in 30 min.


As to placing the trays on top of a oven my oven is a builtin style so the top just barely gets warm.

This to me is a credit to the product, with so much different equipment people have to use and most every one gets it to work as it should.

It seems that if the coated alloy is warmed to between 120 deg F and 150 deg F for about 20-30 minutes this guarantees the coating is dry and ready to bake, provided the alloy is clean and the coating is mixed correctly.

May not be Rocket Science but it is Bullet Science.

Thanks for the replys

[dikman]

As has been said many times, if what you're doing is working for you then that's all that matters.
Using it may not be rocket science, but I reckon you could class it's actual development as in those realms! It's really got me intrigued as to what it is and how it's made, but I suspect I'll go to my grave never knowing :lol:.

[shootinxd]

Wanted to see if anyone has compared the accuracy of the Hi Tech coating to traditional size and lube method. Many years ago I struggled with my 40 cal, I don't want to go backwards.:veryconfu

[HI-TEK]

Wanted to see if anyone has compared the accuracy of the Hi Tech coating to traditional size and lube method. Many years ago I struggled with my 40 cal, I don't want to go backwards.:veryconfu

shootinsd
Very good question.
To answer this, we have to first identify, what is "traditional" lube?
From exposure to this industry over many years, there appears hundreds of lubes, with all sort of mixtures/recipes that has been used, that can be broadly claimed as being traditional.
Then once we narrow down to what can be accepted or relied upon as being a standard traditional lube, we have to carry out accuracy tests using that lube, with a known load, known alloy, sized and loaded with accurate powder load, and also measure speed of fired projectile.
Then repeat accuracy test using the Hi-Tek coating.
The problematic areas that may require attention is, that in some guns, sizing to suitable diameter using "traditional" lubes, will not the same with using the coatings.

Then, to test other possible traditional lube/s, the whole process is needed to be repeated.
This way, you can get a direct comparison between the two lube types.

If you consider all the "traditional" type lubes on the market, and try to produce accuracy results comparing them and the Hi-Tek coating, you may be doing this comparative testing for quite a while. (Another possible research programme for someone)

It is possible, that someone has already done some testing, and hopefully can advise on your question.

[Ausglock]

First hand experience with 45ACP.
Lee 230gn FP lubed with White label lube and sized .452 in Lyman 450. shot out of Para GI Expert 1911. Did 8 shots at 50 metres from a rest into 60mm dia group.
Same bullet with 2 coats of HITEK Gold 1035 sized .452 with Lee push through sizer, out of same gun did 60mm dia. group.

Velocity was higher with hitek coating by 45fps average.
Far less smoke and shiny clean barrel afterwards.

[wlkjr]

I got an order yesterday of some Black K-15. That powder is about the blackest stuff I've seen. Looks like printer toner. Hopefully the rain holds up for a spell the next couple of days so I can test.

[glockfan]

First hand experience with 45ACP.
Lee 230gn FP lubed with White label lube and sized .452 in Lyman 450. shot out of Para GI Expert 1911. Did 8 shots at 50 metres from a rest into 60mm dia group.
Same bullet with 2 coats of HITEK Gold 1035 sized .452 with Lee push through sizer, out of same gun did 60mm dia. group.

Velocity was higher with hitek coating by 45fps average.
Far less smoke and shiny clean barrel afterwards.



waiting for milder temps,then will proceed to some chrono tests with my competition electronic pro chrony,but i suspect an increase of like 3-4% of velocity with my boolits coated with hi tek. as for accuracy,it,s like with any commercial boolits, diameter consistency and weight is the key,assuming the load is perfectly replicated with each round.

[eljefeoz]

I got booted a bit more with the cast .404 loads. 380 gr Hoch mould, coated with 2 coats of Zombie green. Powder was 28 gr AP70 (Unique/Universal) as compared to the old Blue Dot loads of 28 gr
QL projected velocity of 1500 fps.
2 on paper at 100y with iron sights.Then I realised I had the 150m blade up.
just a wisp of grey came out on the scrub. Bore is shiny as ever.
Now to coat and find me a load. AND-remember to use the proper rear sight blade. I've been shooting with a scope for a while and simple precautions like sight check need to be reinforced.Bullet fit is good at 0.4255",I size and check them in a home made lee style push through sizer after 2 coats

[glockfan]

can't wait to try some triple coated 7.62's in my sks . might cast a little harder to be able to push a 125 grainer to 90% of the chart with probably better results than commercial FMJ steel cores .

[eljefeoz]

Glockfan,as long as the fit is right, all will be well. make sure they fit in the throat...whats your load for these? I run non coated lee 155 0.312" with 11.5 gr Blue dot. now I need to check out a 'coated load' :popcorn:

[glockfan]

Glockfan,as long as the fit is right, all will be well. make sure they fit in the throat...whats your load for these? I run non coated lee 155 0.312" with 11.5 gr Blue dot. now I need to check out a 'coated load' :popcorn:

for the russian? i predict the lee 312155-2r with 3 coatings under something like a 24-25grs of n120 at 2100fps. would like an 100grs HP at 2400fps with n110 ; what will bring the most for the least , get the win. i'm sure this gun can be more accurate with something else than surplus ammo.

[eljefeoz]

Planned load for the coated .312 lee 155gr out of a zastava bolt action and a 100 year old martini cadet, is with AP70-Unique/universal- to you outworlders ;) am running out of Blue Dot...no chance of any in the future.

[Ausglock]

Blue Dot??? Bugger......shame you are not closer. I have about 4Kg of it.
Got it for 44mag, but found AR2205 was better.

[dikman]

Not closer?? Victoria's next door to NSW!;-). Heck, a couple of years ago I rode from Adelaide to Sydney just to buy some Black Powder. (Maybe we Croweaters are a tougher breed :lol:).

[shootinxd]

Sorry I'm late to the party, but couldn't bring myself to reading all 470+ pages. The last 20 seem tied up with someone named Tony.
I just received my order of gold from Hi Tech and can't wait to give it a try. Where is everyone getting the tools to measure the ingredients and storing the left over mix. Living in rural Colorado has some draw backs when it comes to shopping.

[dikman]

Set of electronic kitchen scales, picked up cheap at an Op shop, plastic measuring cup from the kitchen section at a shop, small water bottles with resealable squirt-type tops (often sold in packs at the supermarket, I save them when the grandkids are finished with them) for the mix.
That's it.

[Papercidal]

Sorry I'm late to the party, but couldn't bring myself to reading all 470+ pages. The last 20 seem tied up with someone named Tony.
I just received my order of gold from Hi Tech and can't wait to give it a try. Where is everyone getting the tools to measure the ingredients and storing the left over mix. Living in rural Colorado has some draw backs when it comes to shopping.

Half pint mason jars work great for mixing and storing and are short enough to get a syringe to the bottom of (just make sure to wipe any off of the threads before resealing jar as you might not get it back open) for measuring the powder I use a 1/4 cup measuring cup on my digital powder scale and a small (150ml)Pyrex graduated measuring cup for the acetone.

For measuring the mix I use syringe type medicine droppers (3cc for first coat 6cc for subsequent coats) from the farm store. The plastic folgers can (dump the coffee on the rhododendrons they like it and it's not fit for humans) is perfect for tossing the bullets.

[glockfan]

Set of electronic kitchen scales, picked up cheap at an Op shop, plastic measuring cup from the kitchen section at a shop, small water bottles with resealable squirt-type tops (often sold in packs at the supermarket, I save them when the grandkids are finished with them) for the mix.
That's it.


I add to this set up that I have bought some syringes for precise measurements of the mixture hitek.Yes, I am anal in my reload haha activities. I also added a brick to each of my two ovens to help with the recovery time and it helped a lot, the irons do not have to light long to reach the right temperature after closing the oven door. I can now cook 20lbs of boolits at a time.

[eljefeoz]

Blue Dot??? Bugger......shame you are not closer. I have about 4Kg of it.
Got it for 44mag, but found AR2205 was better.

Thanks for the offer,Trev.
I used it for many calibers from .45 ACP to .404J with cast. Splendid performance. Tempting enough to drive down and pick it up.but lets see how I can use the 2x 2kg tins of Mulwex AP 70 I've scrounged.Its smells sweet as...

[Ausglock]

I love the smell of Win231

[Avenger442]

shootinxd;

Don't know about drug stores in Colorado, but here they give away the syringes like you use to give children medicine. They also have an open end thing to measure with. Looks like a spoon on the end attached to a tube with measurements down the side. Sometime they are included in a box of cold medicine for children. I use one of those for acetone and a measuring spoon for the powder. Use empty dish washing liquid bottles to mix in with a bullet in the bottom to agitate. I have left the liquid in these bottles for six months or more. The bottles deform a bit but you can add a little acetone and use the coating. The dried liquid can act like a weak glue if you leave it the threads of something and put the cap on.

Know what you mean about the length of the read. There is a shorter ten page read called Hi Tek do's and don'ts on this forum. I think Ausglock started it to give someone starting out an abbreviated version. Wish I had had it when I started. I read all the post. But at that time there were only about 2000 of them.

Welcome to the party.

[Ausglock]

As has been said many times, if what you're doing is working for you then that's all that matters.
Using it may not be rocket science, but I reckon you could class it's actual development as in those realms! It's really got me intrigued as to what it is and how it's made, but I suspect I'll go to my grave never knowing :lol:.

No need to wonder... Just buy out Hitek Joe for $6.3 million US, and he will give you the formula.... easy.

[dikman]

Oh, is that all? I'll write out a cheque tomorrow.........

[shootinxd]

Thanks Avenger.
Iv'e been checking out the Do's and Don't. I think I'm ready to give it a go this weekend. Have Gold to try and tool to measure and mix.
I'll let ya know how it comes out and shoots.

[Ausglock]

Thanks Avenger.
Iv'e been checking out the Do's and Don't. I think I'm ready to give it a go this weekend. Have Gold to try and tool to measure and mix.
I'll let ya know how it comes out and shoots.

G'day. Just make sure that:
1. You mix and let it sit for around 1/2 hour before using.
2. Always shake the mix before decanting to apply to the bullets. It settles out really quick.
3. Use sparingly... A little bit goes a long way.
4. If you think there isn't enough colour on the bullets, then you have enough.
5. once coated, leave them to air dry for at least 10 minutes. Us a hair dryer or fan heater to warm them before baking.
6. every oven is different. But try baking for 10 minutes to start with.
7. All ovens have terrible thermostats. Try to get a oven thermometer to verify the temp.
8. Pre-warm your oven til the heating elements start to cycle on and off.
9. once cool from baking, lay 1 bullet on something hard and hit it with a bloody big hammer to see if the coating flakes off. If you have done the above step, you will have no flaking.
10. repeat the above steps for the second coat.
11. Size load and shoot those suckers.
All good.

[ElCattivo]

Dear gang,

as this is my first post in this forum let me introduce myself real quick:
I'm a (handgun)shooter from Germany, reloading for two years and casting for 6 months now. Calibers .357 Mag and .45 ACP. My main focus in shooting (besides the FUN) is competitions, mostly precission style but also some more dynamic stuff like steel plates.

Having dropped the first acceptable bullets out of the mold last fall the obvious question was how to coat them. I had read all I could find about casting and coating in German forums during summer and as a result I got the impression that the times of the druid-like fat-wax-mixing/cooking and Lube-a-Matic-pushing guys was coming to an end and that it could be a good idea for a newcomer like myself to directly start with the so-called "alternative coatings".

To be honest I took a quick excursion into tumble-lubing with self mixed tumble-lube but this was just for being able to quickly let some self-casted bullets "fly" and not meant for a permanent solution. And man, this stuff stinks (as you know)... and even before shooting...
PC didn't seem very attractive to me (ugly finish, messy process) so I gave HITEK the first real shot. Ordered three colors directly from AU (unfortunately HITEK is not available from resellers in Germany as far as I know). Thanks to the very good instructions that come with the product it worked quite fine from the beginning (with Zombie Green and Old Gold), just -for reasons unknown to me- the Black Cherry insisted on keeping to flake off during hammer test. No big deal but strange anyways.

When I finally found this forum/thread a few weeks ago I quickly had a more or less long list of questions ready that I wanted to ask you guys, but, after reading from about halfway back until the most reason posts all of this questions were already answered on the way and the list is empty now. Very impressive thread and product!!!

This leaves me with nothing more to say than "Thank you"! I feel honored to be able to listen (read) and talk (write) to the inventor/producer, lead tester and main US distributor (amoungst all you other well experienced users) of HITEK!
Learned so much from reading already, understood many things better (e.g. the seal/film that prevents full drying; the necessary curing time/temp in the oven; the necessity to let the freshly mixed solution react for some hours; a.s.o.), adjusted my process and instantly even the Black Cherry bullets pass all the tests flawlessly.
I am totally impressed and more than happy with the performance of the bullets I now can produce with HITEK. Absolutely no leading, no smoke, top precission and I love the look.

That's it. I'm adding some pictures of how I use HITEK over here.

Looking forward to read more from you.

Kindest regards

E.C.

214261

214262

214263

214264

214265

214266

214267

[eljefeoz]

Wunderbar.

[Ausglock]

Good job.

[ElCattivo]

Thank you! :-)

BTW, although I wrote otherwise, there is still one (minor) question left that I have:

I like to put a very small amount of very light case lube on the coated bullets (2 coatings) before sizing. It's much more comfortable this way and also feels somewhat better when it comes to stress on the bullet surface (don't know how to express correctly, but I think you know what I mean).

Sure, no more coating is done after this sizing.

I use a mixture of 1 part lanolin with 15 parts isopropanol.

I know what was previously said about that it is impossible to test and forsee all the possible reactions between HITEK and the lubes people may use. I just wonder if anyone has positive or negative experiences with using diluted case lube on HITEK bullets for sizing.
I just can say that I have not recognized any negative effects yet, but my experience is only a few hundred shots old...

Thank you for your advise!

E.C.

[snscasting]

Thank you! :-)

BTW, although I wrote otherwise, there is still one (minor) question left that I have:

I like to put a very small amount of very light case lube on the coated bullets (2 coatings) before sizing. It's much more comfortable this way and also feels somewhat better when it comes to stress on the bullet surface (don't know how to express correctly, but I think you know what I mean).

Sure, no more coating is done after this sizing.

I use a mixture of 1 part lanolin with 15 parts isopropanol.

I know what was previously said about that it is impossible to test and forsee all the possible reactions between HITEK and the lubes people may use. I just wonder if anyone has positive or negative experiences with using diluted case lube on HITEK bullets for sizing.
I just can say that I have not recognized any negative effects yet, but my experience is only a few hundred shots old...

Thank you for your advise!

E.C.

Try to find some of Hi-Tek Joes Aqualube. Good stuff!

[glockfan]

very,very nice boolits MR CATTIVO. nice groupings too. i love the old gold color.

[HI-TEK]

Thank you! :-)

BTW, although I wrote otherwise, there is still one (minor) question left that I have:

I like to put a very small amount of very light case lube on the coated bullets (2 coatings) before sizing. It's much more comfortable this way and also feels somewhat better when it comes to stress on the bullet surface (don't know how to express correctly, but I think you know what I mean).

Sure, no more coating is done after this sizing.

I use a mixture of 1 part lanolin with 15 parts isopropanol.

I know what was previously said about that it is impossible to test and forsee all the possible reactions between HITEK and the lubes people may use. I just wonder if anyone has positive or negative experiences with using diluted case lube on HITEK bullets for sizing.
I just can say that I have not recognized any negative effects yet, but my experience is only a few hundred shots old...

Thank you for your advise!

E.C.

Thanks for your excellent post and pictures. You have done very well in a short time.
With sizing lubes, (oily/greasy types) there is a real danger of cross contamination and it will and can cause you no end of problems with coating adhesion.
SNS casting (thank you for your comments), is referring to a water based lubricant called Aqualube 5000.
This is a very concentrated lube that requires huge dilutions, and very small amounts will form a dry non contaminating surface lube on the coatings that significantly reduces sizing loads, even with harder alloys.
Typical dilution is about 3-5 mls of the Aqualube 5000, is added to one litre of Denatured Alcohol. This well mixed mixture is then sprayed onto finally coated cast, with a trigger plastic spray bottle, either onto collator or separately in a bucket. One small squirt, just barely to wet is plenty. This stuff is extremely slippery and about 1 gram can lubricate about 40-60 square metres surface area if adequately diluted.
Doing rough calculations, if you use about 5mls of Aqualube 5000 concentrate into 1 litre denatured alcohol, then using 1 ml spray onto 250 bullets, this dilute one litre mix, should be able to lubricate about 250,000 projectiles. So a 200gram bottle of concentrate Aqualube 5000 should lube about 12 million projectiles, plus or minus a few.

Once dry, it cannot be removed with any solvents or cleaners, so don't spill it onto the floor, or where you don't want it.
Just a word of warning, this stuff is expensive, but in use, it is extremely cost efficient, and probably cheaper and cleaner that any other lube, and it is a dry lubricating film residue that will lubricate any two surfaces and wont attract dust.
USE VERY SPARINGLY.
Keep up the good work
Hi-Tek.

[Avenger442]

ElCavitto

You got there quicker than I did. My bullets didn't look that good after casting for six months. Good looking lot. And good looking coating job. Looks like you have the precision for good match ammo.

Love to see targets. They are showing not just the end product but the ability to produce accuracy with it. And they speak much louder that anything else.

I'll add my "welcome to the party" to the others.

[dikman]

Well done mate, very impressive effort. Your tray mesh looks like the same stuff I use - half a world away!

[ElCattivo]

Thank you all for the welcoming replies! :D




this stuff is expensive, but in use, it is extremely cost efficient, and probably cheaper and cleaner that any

Thank you HI-TEK for the deeper explanation about the background of Aqualube. I've seen it in the US webshop and read about it in this forum but now I'm finally convinced. :wink:

My only "problem" is not the price of the Aqualube (totally ok, IMHO) but that my 3 buckets of HI-TEK (15oz each) will probably last for the next 857,3 years and to have only one bottle of Aqualube sent over the ocean alone, no matter which ocean and which direction..., will add three or four times the cost for delivery, customs, etc.. I will instead wait for the next trip of a friend or myself to AU or US and then grab one from there. Anyway, I'm quite curious already now to try this stuff out. :drinks:

Have a nice weekend you all!

E.C.

[shootinxd]

I was able to get my first batch coated, baked, and pushed thru my sizing die. Passed the wipe and smash test. I'm wondering if a second coat is actually needed. They look pretty good as is.
I'll give them a second coat tonight and load some over the weekend.

[ioon44]

I have shot 200 gr SWC out of a 1911 with one coat of Hi-Tek with out any problems but out of a different gun it might not work out.

You could shoot a few and add a second coat later if needed.

[dikman]

Initially I sized after the first coat, but then decided to leave it until after the second (I only do two coats). If you get any contaminants in the sizing die it could affect applying another coat. At least, that's my reasoning (also saves a bit more work :)).

[skeetdude]

Hi all, new to the forum. I just coated some 9mm and 45's with hi-tek, acetone test and smash test came out great, but still had a little leading in the 9mm. But not so much in the 45 cal. I thought the hi-tek coating would stop the leading with cast boolits. Have I done something wrong? I used lead wheel weights and put on three coats. Any advice would be great.

[Ausglock]

Leading is still possible, even with Hitek coated pills.

Bullet to bore fit is still king. Slug the barrel and size to be 1 to 1 1/2 thou over bore dia.

Barrel throating is also important.

Make sure with the 9mm, that you are not using a Lee carbide factory crimp die. These dies actually crush cast boolits as the loaded round passes through the die to be crimped.

The are fine with jacketed, but a huge no no for cast bullets.

[skeetdude]

Leading is still possible, even with Hitek coated pills.

Bullet to bore fit is still king. Slug the barrel and size to be 1 to 1 1/2 thou over bore dia.

Barrel throating is also important.

Make sure with the 9mm, that you are not using a Lee carbide factory crimp die. These dies actually crush cast boolits as the loaded round passes through the die to be crimped.

The are fine with jacketed, but a huge no no for cast bullets.

ok thanks for the info I did use a Lee carbide factory crimp die , so I will try it without factory crimp die , and see how they do, I did run them through a Lee bullet sizing die 9mm .356 and 45.452 after they where coated

[Ausglock]

Depending on the gun, I run all my 9mm for Kimber, Springfield 1911's and Glock 17 and 34 at .357" Dia

My Para 45 likes .452.

[HI-TEK]

Hi all, new to the forum. I just coated some 9mm and 45's with hi-tek, acetone test and smash test came out great, but still had a little leading in the 9mm. But not so much in the 45 cal. I thought the hi-tek coating would stop the leading with cast boolits. Have I done something wrong? I used lead wheel weights and put on three coats. Any advice would be great.

Just curious, what is hardness of your cast alloy. I am aware, that 9mm's are more suspect with Leading problems with a softer alloy combined with incorrect sizing. Ausglock uses 92-6-2 alloy about 14-16 hardness, (may be more).

[Gremlin460]

Straight up Clip-on wheel weights leaded in my 9mm, 2 years ago I went to the 92-6-2 mix and had no leading ever since.
I use a FCD and it also gives me no issues either.

Mike.

[HI-TEK]

Straight up Clip-on wheel weights leaded in my 9mm, 2 years ago I went to the 92-6-2 mix and had no leading ever since.
I use a FCD and it also gives me no issues either.

Mike.

Thanks Mike,
The problem seems to me, that many users had collected for years scrap Lead from any source so they can produce their own cast at low costs.
Unfortunately, due to the many variable quality/composition/hardness, and other engineering problems, it is almost impossible to advise or resolve, why some fail with using the Hi-Tek coating, and others find success with similar scenario.

[glockfan]

Depending on the gun, I run all my 9mm for Kimber, Springfield 1911's and Glock 17 and 34 at .357" Dia

My Para 45 likes .452.


this is the key; whatever we're using cast COWW , coated or not, we must resize at least 0.001 larger than barrel diameter to avoid leading,sometimes more. with jacketed,it is less of a factor because the jacket hardness is greater than the lead core .

[Gremlin460]

Thanks Mike,
The problem seems to me, that many users had collected for years scrap Lead from any source so they can produce their own cast at low costs.
Unfortunately, due to the many variable quality/composition/hardness, and other engineering problems, it is almost impossible to advise or resolve, why some fail with using the Hi-Tek coating, and others find success with similar scenario.

I think if everyone had access to a hardness tester, most casters would be surprised at the "real" bhn they using ,as opposed to the actuall bhn they are ending up with.
I know i was when I made my own hardness tester. Hence the transit to 92-6-2.

[Ausglock]

Long time no see, Grem.
Where ya been hiding???

[Gremlin460]

Long time no see, Grem.
Where ya been hiding???

Hi Trev!! Life went to hell in a basket, real bad, but I am back on my knee's and soon hope to be on my feet.

At least i am still breathing, the doc's said even that was touch and go... but hey yah play the hand you are dealt.

I see you still teaching newbies how to coat. Easier than falling of a chair... but some make it hard for themselves :kidding:

[Ausglock]

Jesus!!!!
Any day above ground is a good day.

See. That is what happens when you don't have daylight saving.

[slide]

Glad you are back Grem!

[HI-TEK]

Glad you are back Grem!

Same from me also.[smilie=p: You have been missed, that gives it to Ausglock.
He has been out of control for some time and needs a few locals to moderate him some. lol[smilie=w:

[dikman]

Any day above ground is a good day.

That's one of my favourite sayings, Trev. Gremlin, I don't know you, mate, but Aussies being the masters of understatement it sounds like you've been put through the wringer! From one Aussie (I have a piece of paper that says I'm one ;)) to another I'm glad that you're ok and still in the land of the living.:drinks:

On a more mundane note, eljefeoz kindly sent me a sample of Texas Tea to try, which I did today. A slightly weird colour, in my opinion, it's as if it can't quite make up it's mind what it wants to be! Goes on nicely and has a nice smooth finish, I figure if I gave it a third coat it would probably get a deeper colour but two is plenty for my needs. That makes about 6,000 .38's and about 1,000 for the .44-40 so far. Waiting for the fire ban season to end so I can smelt some more range scrap.

[Ausglock]

Texas Tea is nice, but doesn't do it for me.
Coated, baked 2000 125SWC tonight.
Will bake the second coat and size tomorrow night.Running low on my own supply.
Too busy selling them.

Grem. Give me a cooee if ya need a yarn. You got me dog n bone no.?

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Ausglock;4294781]Texas Tea is nice, but doesn't do it for me.

For those who have not seen Texas Tea attached is a picture
214547

[eljefeoz]

Hi Grem.
This one is for you.
145 RCBS Sil 2 coats, gas checked and sized to 0.285. Alloy was range lead BHN 14. Win LR primer, reformado 7x57 cases from 30-06. About twice fired. Zastava Model 70 with a Boyd’s plain walnut stock wearing a Burris E11. 3-9 scope. Benched at 100 y. 214549

[eljefeoz]

Coating is Bronze 502. About 6 months old.
The barrel had a few wipes after the string of 3 and all that came out is in the pic. Which refuses to get uploaded. Will try again.

[HI-TEK]

Coating is Bronze 502. About 6 months old.
The barrel had a few wipes after the string of 3 and all that came out is in the pic. Which refuses to get uploaded. Will try again.

The picture needs to be a JPG type. I found that other formats don't load.

[eljefeoz]

Previous pic is also from the same lot...no change in format. Straight off the phone.

[HI-TEK]

Previous pic is also from the same lot...no change in format. Straight off the phone.

may be file size is too large

[dikman]

Make sure the pic is the right way up, don't forget we're in Oz :lol:

Thanks for the pic, Joe, that colour looks pretty close to what I got (allowing for picture/monitor variations).

[Gremlin460]

[QUOTE=eljefeoz;4294822]Hi Grem.
Alloy was range lead BHN 14.

Was having this conversation the other day with a few guys over a coldie, re-range lead.
My personal opinion RL is not much better than SOWW. Why I think that is due to the fact that Jacketed projectiles are filled with a soft lead, relying on the copper to do all the work. Copper washed are slightly harder as the wash coating is just a lube. Finally coated stuff, well it "should" be 14-16 but who knows for sure.
The above reasons is why I dont like to presume RL pickup is any better than SOWW.

Am open to opinions on this. Some who have used RL in pistol are reporting leading, without further testing, it seems to support a overall drop in BHN from what is socially accepted RL to be.

[Gremlin460]

Grem. Give me a cooee if ya need a yarn. You got me dog n bone no.?

Dont think I have, will check my PM backlisting.
In Jan could have done with that lifeline..

Look on the bright side, I got to finish my Fiction/adventure book and finally get it published. Now if i can sell 5-6K of that I be back on my feet LOL.

[Ausglock]

Range lead here is only 10 to 12 BHN.
A lot of .22 stuff in with the hard cast. Not much jacketed. More plated stuff also being used now.
Takes too much time and the cost of propane doesn't warrant the effort.
Clean 2,6,92 is easier.

[dikman]

My range scrap is from a pistol range (jacketed not allowed) and there's not much .22 in my stuff as it falls through my sieve! I gave some to a guy in exchange for some pure lead and he tested it at 12-15 BHN. I'm pretty sure most of it is from Spartan Projectiles, a manufacturer here in SA. Of course, this could vary depending on the range and what "brand" people are using.

[eljefeoz]

My range scrap is from a pistol range (jacketed not allowed) and there's not much .22 in my stuff as it falls through my sieve! I gave some to a guy in exchange for some pure lead and he tested it at 12-15 BHN. I'm pretty sure most of it is from Spartan Projectiles, a manufacturer here in SA. Of course, this could vary depending on the range and what "brand" people are using.


This one was run thru a Lee hardness tester.
I’m awaiting some hardball from Northern smelters and an RCBS 55 Gr .224 mould for some speed tests with Texas Tea.

[Gremlin460]

Being in the auto industry I get buckets of WW for free, or $10 sorted from one place. RS is something I dont chase anymore, too much "unknown" garbage in it and our berms as Trevor will know is gravel. Makes lead mining not only hazardous but a major PIA as well.

[glockfan]

Range lead here is only 10 to 12 BHN.
A lot of .22 stuff in with the hard cast. Not much jacketed. More plated stuff also being used now.
Takes too much time and the cost of propane doesn't warrant the effort.
Clean 2,6,92 is easier.

got a price for the 9262 from a small foundry down in the city...the best he can do is 3.00usd a pound, a minimum of 500lbs order is asked.....not sure what a correct price would be. north of the border the largest foundry in the area is asking 4.14 cdn a pound. seems high to me .

then i've looked at rotometal prices and sure enough it is less on a DIY basis. i can get pure antimony and i already have access to tin ; however, my project got cold showered when i've learned antimony melts at over 1000 degree.

[kevin c]

Table salt melts at about 1475 F, but will dissolve in room temperature water. I haven't done it myself, but have been told that Sb will dissolve in Pb below the melting point of pure Sb. The temps, times, amount dissolved and any toxicity and other safety issues, though, I don't know about.

[HI-TEK]

got a price for the 9262 from a small foundry down in the city...the best he can do is 3.00usd a pound, a minimum of 500lbs order is asked.....not sure what a correct price would be. north of the border the largest foundry in the area is asking 4.14 cdn a pound. seems high to me .

then i've looked at rotometal prices and sure enough it is less on a DIY basis. i can get pure antimony and i already have access to tin ; however, my project got cold showered when i've learned antimony melts at over 1000 degree.

Some foundries offer pre-alloyed Lead containing high levels Antimony, for home casters in a small bullion.
I would not recommend any one trying to mix in Antimony into Lead. I have been advised, that it requires about 750-800C to mix/melt the Antimony into the Lead.
This temperature causes Lead to form lots of vapours, and is not good for the health at all.

[Ausglock]

Currently paying about $6AUD per KG for 2,6,92 here in OZ.

[ioon44]

That sounds like a lot, 2-6-92 around here would be about $3.96 US per KG, but then US $ and AUD $ are not the same.

[glockfan]

That sounds like a lot, 2-6-92 around here would be about $3.96 US per KG, but then US $ and AUD $ are not the same.

well...i might use this reply in my next negociation round lol. 2usd a pound is exactly the price i'm willing to pay.

[Avenger442]

I use, for the most part, COWW. Have a Lee BHN tester and check every batch of bullets after 14 days. The sweet spot for my 308 rifle on BHN is 12-14. Those give me the best groups with the load I use. I have shot 15-17 BHN but the groups will open up and I will have to change the load. My COWW with 2% tin can usually be anywhere from 12-15 BHN 14 days after bullet is cast and coated. You could use pure lead to bring it down, and I have done this, but you would have to remelt the bullets after you have coated them. As far as I have been able to tell there is some difference in the leads BHN in ingot form and after the coating process. So you have to check the coated bullet.

COWW here from the scrap yard are 14 cents US a pound with soft lead being 60 cents US. The guys at the scrap yard will let me sort through the wheel weights to make sure I don't buy a lot of steel and zinc. Some will not let you do that. I have tin I buy off ebay and some linotype that I bought when I first started. I have used very little of the lino. Most of it went into .223 bullets that seem to shoot better at around 20 BHN in my gun with the load I used. (A little side note on the prices, the place my scrap yard sells their scrap to has lowered their price on wheel weights. My guess is they are finding what I find lately when I sort through the weights. They are at least 50% steel and zinc.)

In my auto and revolver I just cast what ever BHN I have in the pot. Have shot everything from 8 to 20 BHN in them and have not noticed a great deal of difference. Of course this may be due to shooters skills which can affect results. And I will say that I'm not a competition handgun shooter.

Now if I were competing or selling bullets as some here are I would probably just buy from Roto metals and maintain the load or if selling use good old capitalism and figure the cost into the price. It is what the professional does and that would make good sense. You can change impact point with a certain load by varying BHN as with almost anything else you do different. But for guys that want to see how cheaply they can get 1MOA and don't mind messing with it a little Roto metals is not the way to go. Variances in BHN for COWW can be adjusted. Just my opinion.

Good news is, if you keep your loading reasonable with the BHN you have, in both handgun and rifle Hi Tek will do what it is supposed to do. That 8 BHN doesn't lead if you remember you can't shoot it with the same load as 20.

[HI-TEK]

That sounds like a lot, 2-6-92 around here would be about $3.96 US per KG, but then US $ and AUD $ are not the same.


If you convert USD to AUSD prices, then depending on currency exchange rates you get can make your alloy about AUSD$5.40 to AUSD$5.80 per kilo. If that is correct, then prices we pay here are not that far apart.
Lead and alloys is listed on Metal exchange, and, depending on greed of seller, and quantity being purchased, governs poor old customers prices.

[Gremlin460]

Re-pure Antimony, it is next to useless because of the high heat to get it into the lead as stated by others above. It was also explained to me buy the lovely lady who runs the Smelter up here.
Now in saying that, I buy ingots of 20% antimony from her that i melt and pour into "mini" ingots of a few Ounces each. This allows me to mix my 92-6-2 with ease and avoids lead fuming temperatures. I weight the mini ingots and write on them that weight with a sharpie. On these forums is a nice excel sheet that works the formulas out for you that you need to mix.

I highly recommend you dig that sheet up, its well worth it.

my 0.01bhn worth.

[popper]

Waas h.t.ing some boolits today, decided to retry the asbbdt with HiTek again. MOnitor temp with PID probe on hot plate. 1035 gold (powder) started to change ~200F, began to flow some. 280F, color started to get darker. 340F started to get gold. 396f, begins to turn brownish (1st coat). Dump in ice water and repeat. 2nd coat came out pretty good, doesn't scratch off. Little lumpy but not bad.
215676

[glockfan]

i love this color .i guess it's my fav color with old gold.

well done Sir ,very nice boolit.

[HI-TEK]

Waas h.t.ing some boolits today, decided to retry the asbbdt with HiTek again. MOnitor temp with PID probe on hot plate. 1035 gold (powder) started to change ~200F, began to flow some. 280F, color started to get darker. 340F started to get gold. 396f, begins to turn brownish (1st coat). Dump in ice water and repeat. 2nd coat came out pretty good, doesn't scratch off. Little lumpy but not bad.
215676

Popper, is that style for gas checking?
They look good. The "lumpy" finish is usually due to tumble coating a little too long.
As the solvent evaporates, the coating gets stickier, and this is why you get lumpy type of finishes. The more you tumble, the worse the smoothness is affected.
Really, this is very simple to fix, (before you bake).
Just add a little Acetone to re-wet coating, and this should re-melt the lumps, and this time, stop shake coating a little earlier and dump to dry, and don't disturb.
After baking, even if coating is not glassy smooth after second coat, and coating is stuck well, then after sizing, all bearing surfaces should end up smooth and stay put on alloy.

Just an amendment, I just had my ear chewed, I missed the fact that you used only the Hi-Tek as a powdered system to coat. That explains more the rougher finish.
If a powdered dry system is used, then you need to use much less powder, and a calculation needs to determine how much is needed to coat. "I must remember to put on my glasses first."

My only concern is that there may be more dust generated with a dry coating technique.

[Grmps]

Joe, Popper was tumbling the bullets in the HiTek powder, then baking it like we do with Powdercoat.
Put bullets in a container with powder, swill for 15 - 30 seconds, powder electrostatically adheres to the bullet, bake bullet
I'm surprised it turned out that well.

I also was curious as to how it would turn out, but not as curious as Popper :).

Even if it worked great, it still wouldn't be cost-effective to use HiTek in that manner

[HI-TEK]

Joe, Popper was tumbling the bullets in the HiTek powder, then baking it like we do with Powdercoat.
Put bullets in a container with powder, swill for 15 - 30 seconds, powder electrostatically adheres to the bullet, bake bullet
I'm surprised it turned out that well.

I also was curious as to how it would turn out, but not as curious as Popper :).

Even if it worked great, it still wouldn't be cost-effective to use HiTek in that manner


Thanks Grmps,
I posted an amendment reply I made to Poppers results.
The Hi-Tek was never designed to be applied as a powder. Main difference between Powder coating and Hi-Tek can be summarised as follows.
Hi Tek, with finished 2 coats, applied from solvent based applications adds about 1.5 to 2.0 thou to alloy.
Powder coatings (electrostatically applied) can add from 4 to 14 thou onto alloy.
Rough calculations, the powder coatings seem to use about 6-8 times more product as a coating.
Other observations are, that examining powder coating and other coatings after being applied to alloy, there seems a great variation in thickness of the film that is on the alloy. We cut in half coated alloy not using Hi-Tek, and enlarged the picture to show what we found. We also did same with a Hi-Tek coated alloy. The alloy coated with Hi-Tek, was very even, and was difficult to measure the
2 thin coat thickness.
Attached is what we found.215744
215746

[popper]

I was interested in the baking characteristics of the HiTek, not really powder coating with it. It melts but doesn't 'plastic flow' like PC thus the need for the liquid application. It appears that the 'cure' temperature band is pretty narrow, over temp darkens the color. I'm thinking hold ~ 380 for cure and then reduce to 350 for an hour will allow heat treating. I did this baking before and < ~370 it won't cure (my temp measurements may be off a bit) but color came out great. Wouldn't pass wipe test. Coating didn't survive sizing in a few places, sized down from 313 to 308.

[HI-TEK]

I was interested in the baking characteristics of the HiTek, not really powder coating with it. It melts but doesn't 'plastic flow' like PC thus the need for the liquid application. It appears that the 'cure' temperature band is pretty narrow, over temp darkens the color. I'm thinking hold ~ 380 for cure and then reduce to 350 for an hour will allow heat treating. I did this baking before and < ~370 it won't cure (my temp measurements may be off a bit) but color came out great. Wouldn't pass wipe test. Coating didn't survive sizing in a few places, sized down from 313 to 308.

Thanks Popper,
Do you have a picture of what projectiles look like after sizing?
With wipe test, did coating totally came off alloy, or did you get removal of surface "lumps" with the rubbing?
Hi-Tek does "plastic flow", but a much narrower window for flow levelling to take place.
Plastic flow starts at about 150C and as temperature rises to about 180C this plastic flow takes about 90-100 seconds.
Then after that point the heat curing sets the polymer into a solid and cannot further "flow".

Can I suggest and experiment, that you set oven at about 300F and cook the coated projectiles at that temperature, so that alloy gets to and is held at 300F, and remains there for at least 3 minutes thereafter, then remove some, cool and examine/test.
It may take a much longer time to get your alloy to 300F and will depend on your oven.
Compare the flow and levelling as you found with setting oven at 380-400F.
The rationale I am using, that a lower heat should lengthen the plastic flow time.
I do however have reservations about a complete cure taking place at 300F.
May be, afterwards, you can bake the same alloy at 200C to finish cure.
Ideally, to do this experiment, a programmable oven should be used, where temperature rise, and hold points can be programmed into heating rates and hold times can be set, at each temperature rise.
Old gold does become more a Tanned Gold colour. With Gold 1035, the Gold is much lighter and more sparkly when baked at same conditions.

[HI-TEK]

Thanks Grmps,
I posted an amendment reply I made to Poppers results.
The Hi-Tek was never designed to be applied as a powder. Main difference between Powder coating and Hi-Tek can be summarised as follows.
Hi Tek, with finished 2 coats, applied from solvent based applications adds about 1.5 to 2.0 thou to alloy.
Powder coatings (electrostatically applied) can add from 4 to 14 thou onto alloy.
Rough calculations, the powder coatings seem to use about 6-8 times more product as a coating.
Other observations are, that examining powder coating and other coatings after being applied to alloy, there seems a great variation in thickness of the film that is on the alloy. We cut in half coated alloy not using Hi-Tek, and enlarged the picture to show what we found. We also did same with a Hi-Tek coated alloy. The alloy coated with Hi-Tek, was very even, and was difficult to measure the
2 thin coat thickness.
Attached is what we found.215744
215746

Just did some calculations to convert the mm measurements to thou of an inch as per the picture
0.128mm is about 5 thou
0.14 mm is about 5.5 thou
0.162mm is about 6.4 thou
0.192mm is about 7.6 thou
0.449 mm is about 17.7 thou.
As indicated with arrows showing mm measurements, these were measured variations in coating thickness around perimeter of the alloy where a non hi tek coating was used.
Questions can arise as to actual positioning of alloy inside barrel, when coating seems thicker on one side as compared to other side.
We water captured a shot projectile that did not contain hi tek coating. Results as per picture. It was interesting that alloy was not damaged and coating was intact at base, but why coating simply shredded off the alloy was a mystery.
215721576059

[Avenger442]

Okay guys, found a partially dry day on the range (love this Alabama mud) and test results are finally in for the HiTek and PC handgun bullets. But I wish to qualify the results somewhat. When I test rifle I use a rest that, for the most part, locks the rifle in place so there is very little movement. This leaves you with the loads capability with very little of the shooters skill coming into play. With the hand gun test I wanted to get a Ransom rest to lock the gun in place for the test. But because of the $$$$ and the learning curve of using the Ransom that didn't happen. Instead I used a home made rest that eliminated some of the movement but not as much as the Ransom would have.

The loads were .38 Specials. Slide produced both the PC and Hi Tek bullets. They are from scrap and his measurement of BHN was in the 12-15 BHN range. The bullet is a tumble lube design from a Lee mold. Weight was +/- 160 gn. Bullets for each five shot group were weight matched to within one grain (habit from rifle loading). PC Bullets were one coat of Hot Rod Blue the Hi Tek were two coats of Kypronite Green. Slide had sent the bullets sized .358 and my gun seems to like .357 so all bullets were put through the Lee sizing die. Slide, when you read this, I liked getting them .358 thanks. The powder was Unique 4.4 gn. hand weighed on a digital scale in Federal once fired cases. There was no case prep done. Have had some problems with the lot of small pistol CCI primers that I had open so I switched to a Winchester WSP they performed admirably.

Note here on the CCIs, I started using CCI exclusively in my loads when I first started loading and especially like them for rifle. But I think that there is something wrong with the lot I had open. I had several FTFs at the range last time I used them. Second or third try with them would cause them to fire. Firing pin marked primer on the first attempt. This lot definitely not for self defense loads.

If you remember we first started these test to determine if there was any speed difference between PC and Hi Tek. And in the rifle test there was a 6 fps difference. I can't remember which was favored. Which I said was really no difference. I shot five groups of five in the Hi Tek pistol loads and the same in PC. Speeds with this load were in the 860 fps +/- zone. With the pistol test there was and overall average of 10 fps difference in favor of the PC. But still, speeds were basically the same. If I had been getting 50 fps more out of one or the other I would say that was a difference. So, again, my overall subjective opinion is that there was no difference in speed between PC and Hi Tek.

Groups were not stellar but acceptable compared to the last pistol test like this that we tried. They were shot at 25 yards and off of the home made rest that is basically some plywood with some parts off my rifle rest, giving me some adjustment, and a bag of lead shot. Overall average for PC groups was 4.35" with a best group of 3". Overall average group size for Hi Tek was 4.05" with a best group of 2.75". Again, not all shooters skills were removed from this test.

One more thing I would like to mention is that, with the Lee bullets, Slide sent me some hollow base wad cutter bullets in 150 +/- gn. One group coated in Dark Green Hi Tek and the PC in Harbor Freight red. I've never shot wad cutters and don't even own a mold that cast them. But, after shooting some, I can see why guys that punch paper shoot them. I was concerned that these would not have much accuracy at distance so I moved the target in to 15 yards. I was wrong. I didn't load enough to use as a definitive test but I will say this, both shot 1 1/2" groups. I was surprised. Slide loads his with 2.8 gn of Bullseye. The closest thing I had was Accurate #5 so I loaded them with 3.7 gn. Speeds were in the 700 fps range. To answer your question Slide I like that bullet and need to know the mold. Send me a PM. And tell me how much lead you want back for helping with this. Or maybe I can send you some bullets? Thanks.

Oh, almost for got. I didn't clean and closely inspect the barrel. But a cursory inspection with a bore light didn't show any leading. And since those 1 1/2" groups were shot last I didn't expect to see any. As Gomer used to say "suprise, suprise, suprise". I'm going to have to get me a bucket and thunk under it for a while. :redneck:

[slide]

Well done Avenger442! That is a lot of work and glad things are drying out. I will p.m.

[glockfan]

thanks for this test.

it shows that PC and hi tek gives similar speeds.

as for accuracy, this is dependable of many factors ,but since hi tek doesn't add much in diameter, i would be tempted to think that PC might have more influence on poor-good accuracy than hi tek ,
since PC actually is adding some more to the diameter of a given boolit.

i'm reacting that, if the PC isn't perfectly evenly spread , the boolit might gets out of balance .

[Avenger442]

thanks for this test.

it shows that PC and hi tek gives similar speeds.

as for accuracy, this is dependable of many factors ,but since hi tek doesn't add much in diameter, i would be tempted to think that PC might have more influence on poor-good accuracy than hi tek ,
since PC actually is adding some more to the diameter of a given boolit.

i'm reacting that, if the PC isn't perfectly evenly spread , the boolit might gets out of balance .

I agree with your premise. Uneven coating would throw the lead core of the bullet off center with the barrel slightly. One of the basics of long range shooting is that you want the bullet centered with the barrel. Guys that shoot those 1000 yard shots trim brass necks and other things to help this. An uneven coating would have the effect of starting the lead core off center with the barrel.

I'm going back to rifle after this. The plan is to rework some Winchester brass with the goal of getting 2" or under groups at 200 yards (longest range I have access to). Will be using the Hi Tek coated bullets. Also want to try something Joe has said several times that Hi Tek one coat, while not as pretty, will not lead the barrel. If it will protect at pressures producing 2700 fps that will impress me.

[dikman]

Good stuff, Avenger, the only thing you didn't mention is what you actually fired them out of.
I'm very curious to see your results with one coat.

[Avenger442]

Good stuff, Avenger, the only thing you didn't mention is what you actually fired them out of.
I'm very curious to see your results with one coat.

Your right. It was a Ruger GP 100 with six inch barrel. I've had very good results with the Rugers. I have had three of their hand guns that will shoot better than I can. The guy that owns the range near my house said the 45 auto was better than his Sig. He is a pistol guy, instructor and a competition shooter. I also carry one for EDC. End of add.[smilie=s:

[glockfan]

I agree with your premise. Uneven coating would throw the lead core of the bullet off center with the barrel slightly. One of the basics of long range shooting is that you want the bullet centered with the barrel. Guys that shoot those 1000 yard shots trim brass necks and other things to help this. An uneven coating would have the effect of starting the lead core off center with the barrel.

I'm going back to rifle after this. The plan is to rework some Winchester brass with the goal of getting 2" or under groups at 200 yards (longest range I have access to). Will be using the Hi Tek coated bullets. Also want to try something Joe has said several times that Hi Tek one coat, while not as pretty, will not lead the barrel. If it will protect at pressures producing 2700 fps that will impress me.

honestly if i can run away with only one layer while not getting any leading , i'm a starter. i don't care the round is pretty or not. all i want is a boolit that will leaves 0 lead in my barrel .

the only factor i'm still not sure about is water quenching ; of course, like many, i'm water quenching to add to the hardness level of my boolits, but i hear quenching can contaminate the boolits to the point where hi tek doesn't work correctly. not sure but i'm guessing that if the water is exempt of contaminants,it shouldn't be a problem........this being a grey zone to me .

i'm also wondering if the baking part in the hi tek process may bring some more hardness to my boolits. i know heat treating pros and cons is an eternal debate among the casting community,but if in fact heat treating has the same effect on the hardness than water quenching, then i don't see the point of it anymore because the baking process has the same effect than water quenching.



Your right. It was a Ruger GP 100 with six inch barrel. I've had very good results with the Rugers. I have had three of their hand guns that will shoot better than I can. The guy that owns the range near my house said the 45 auto was better than his Sig. He is a pistol guy, instructor and a competition shooter. I also carry one for EDC. End of add.[smilie=s:


i never owned a revolver.i'm mostly in semi autos, but if i had to own one, it would be this one.

http://outdoorchannel.com/content/articles/RugerGP100MCfeatured-615.jpg

with S&W, one must pick the right frame (n,j,k,a) for how hot you intend to load .

with ruger it is simple. the light stuff for the SP101's,and the rest has to get shot by the GP series.

i«,m also appealed by the red hawk series in .357 as well.

https://ruger.com/products/redhawk/images/5060.jpg
i know one day i will own one of them ruger tanks....

[Ausglock]

Rrrrrrr....RRevvvvvv....Revvooooo... I can't even say it...
I'll stick with the STI, Para, Kimber and Glock.
They all love HITEK coated pills.

[dikman]

It's easy, Trev, just follow me.....reee-vol-ver. See? Not that hard is it.:grin:
I just bought a couple of Ruger Vaquero's (in .357) beautiful guns, built like tanks. I guess I'm the opposite to you, while I can appreciate the design and mechanical ingenuity in auto's, I love reee-vol-vers!

I really should make some boolits with just one coat to try them out, but every time I'm coating I just keep automatically doing two coats :roll:.

[eljefeoz]

It's easy, Trev, just follow me.....reee-vol-ver. See? Not that hard is it.:grin:
I just bought a couple of Ruger Vaquero's (in .357) beautiful guns, built like tanks. I guess I'm the opposite to you, while I can appreciate the design and mechanical ingenuity in auto's, I love reee-vol-vers!

I really should make some boolits with just one coat to try them out, but every time I'm coating I just keep automatically doing two coats :roll:.
I have a heap of RCBS 145 Gr Sil for my 7x57 loaded up with a single coat. Look a bit mongrel , but...

[glockfan]

Rrrrrrr....RRevvvvvv....Revvooooo... I can't even say it...
I'll stick with the STI, Para, Kimber and Glock.
They all love HITEK coated pills.



LOLOL....Trevor...i felt just like it not so long ago. till i started to school myself about the pros and cons ,and as i'm getting older,i'm starting to develop a certain taste for bullseye shooting like the NRA bullseye shooting class where guys are seeking 5 shots groups inside 1 moa at 25 yards. this is the perfect job for revos.


the only part i know i might have to adapt is the grip: there's no way you can hold
a revo like a semi auto; the blast exiting the rear of the cylinder might be a super great reminder about the fact the support hand has no business covering the left side of the barrel LOL!!

sure enough the rugers may get criticized for the lack of finish lol...but not for the lack of reliability and endurance: they're built like tanks. my reflexion is now that every gun owner should own at least one revo. i was browsing the S&W website,then the ruger one......sure S&W has some nicely pimped revos to offer with the V-comp and weighted barrels and all that, but the ruger's minimalism is what i like: no bling, just a revolver built like a tank that can shoot hot ammo all day long haha.


i'm waiting for my second standard class CZ tac sport in 40 to be delivered to me , then i'm resuming shopping for a 4.2 GP100 match champion in .357

[Avenger442]

I guess I hijacked the conversation with the talk about the Rugers.

Glockfan
Eight rounds in a 357 magnum revolver like the new Red Hawk is a tempting gun. But I can't buy another gun until I sell my two old Browning designed Remington semi auto shotguns. And I have been warned by the wife "no more meetings in the parking lot at the local Cracker Barrel with the buyer". Seems she deems this too dangerous.:veryconfu So I guess can't use Armslist like I normally do. Anybody need a couple of early 1900 model 11 shotguns? I think both have adjustable chokes one a Lyman. But would have to check them again.:hijack:

[HI-TEK]

I have a heap of RCBS 145 Gr Sil for my 7x57 loaded up with a single coat. Look a bit mongrel , but...

Just wondering, how the Aqualube 5000 worked out? Any news good or bad???

[eljefeoz]

Just wondering, how the Aqualube 5000 worked out? Any news good or bad???

Joe, I trialled it as case lube and the .223 cases zipped through the sizing dies with no hitch. Have sprayed the internals of all my dies with it. A bit of a glitch with the new (old) .223 RCBS mould and am waiting to get a bit of milling done before I use the Northern Smelters Hardball alloy in it. I’ll be pouring some 9.3 for a Mate soon, with same alloy and hope to size them with the He’s keen on running them at 2100fps for big game club comp. Hopefully a hard alloy and Texas tea should help. :popcorn:

[Grmps]

eljefeoz , if you don't use the Aqualube 5000 regularly, clear the tip after each use or it will harden and plug up

[HI-TEK]

eljefeoz , if you don't use the Aqualube 5000 regularly, clear the tip after each use or it will harden and plug up


You are correct. The blocking seems to be worse when the diluted working mix is too strong.
When making up working mix for a spray bottle, use about 5mls of the Aqualube into about 1 litre of denatured Alcohol, (that is plenty). Use very sparingly.
This is all that is required for lubing, and reduces possibility of nozzle plugging as well.

[eljefeoz]

0.3ml of aqualube in 100ml Methylated spirit is my current dilution.
I just checked the spray bottle and all is fine.Thanks for the heads up people.:bigsmyl2:

[Avenger442]

Joe
Must compliment you and your company on looking after us guys that value a quality product that can be used very sparingly and have great results. I was trained by my Dad to be a very thrifty person. Not cheap but knowing where and how to spend your money. And it is refreshing to see a company that doesn't set you up to spend more money than necessary for their product. A condition that I have seen lately all too often. Especially with insurance companies. Nationwide is really only on their side. In fact your product actually forces you to use it sparingly. If you coat too thick it causes a problem. And now I learn that if you don't use another product sparingly, Aqualube, it will also cause a problem. Keep this up we all appreciate it.

[HI-TEK]

Joe
Must compliment you and your company on looking after us guys that value a quality product that can be used very sparingly and have great results. I was trained by my Dad to be a very thrifty person. Not cheap but knowing where and how to spend your money. And it is refreshing to see a company that doesn't set you up to spend more money than necessary for their product. A condition that I have seen lately all too often. Especially with insurance companies. Nationwide is really only on their side. In fact your product actually forces you to use it sparingly. If you coat too thick it causes a problem. And now I learn that if you don't use another product sparingly, Aqualube, it will also cause a problem. Keep this up we all appreciate it.


Hello Avenger 442,
Thank you much for your kind words. Most appreciated.
With Coatings, over use is simply a waste, as a well prepared thin coats will work in most instances just fine. I find it difficult to understand why people want to apply thick coats despite all the results being published with successful use with thin coats. The old saying is, a little goes a long way, and if it works, don't waste it.
With Aqualube 5000, the stuff is a very slippery material that requires minimal amounts to work well. I know it is a very expensive product, and I am aware of that being a problem, and so I try to advise people not to waste it, as very very little amounts that is required works well, and despite it being expensive to buy as a concentrate, it really ends up costing very little in use, and producing a lot of great results.
I really cannot recommend to people to use excess amounts of what we supply, as it is very counter productive, and not good for the long term.
The current problem with the Aqualube is, that prices for this material has escalated at alarming rates, and now it is in short supply from us, as I am concerned about this product ending up far too expensive as is, and may be, we will be forced to eventually face a decision to not produce it. Sad really.
Thanks again for your post.
FOOTNOTE The Aqualube 5000 will not go off, as a concentrate or as a diluted mix in denatured Alcohol.. The concentrate must be prevented from freezing as this affects suspension stability.

[Grmps]

If I understood Joe correctly, HiTek is a stain, not a paint.
Paints sit on the surface
Stains permeate the surface filling the pores (in the lead)

In most cases, 1 coat will supply the lubrication needed but is not attractive to look at

2 coats guarantee the required lubrication and is aesthetically pleasing.

[HI-TEK]

If I understood Joe correctly, HiTek is a stain, not a paint.
Paints sit on the surface
Stains permeate the surface filling the pores (in the lead)

In most cases, 1 coat will supply the lubrication needed but is not attractive to look at

2 coats guarantee the required lubrication and is aesthetically pleasing.

Grmps
Right on...
However, you do need enough being applied to work OK.
From feed back, over years, about 1.5 to 2 thou of Hi-Tek is enough for most uses. Some like to use more, that is OK, as long as it does not end up causing problems. And of course, pretty is always more important ...... lol :bigsmyl2:

[eljefeoz]

Gday fellas,
I found some .314" jacketed SN bullets for the .303 ( bit of an odd ball, as the usual dia is .312") which I am planning to coat with Hitek (single ,leprous coat:razz:) and use in my 7.62x39 cadet.It has a .303/.313 " B-G bbl and i'm hoping to use them in the subsonic mode.Am thinking, Hitek coating should help me reduce the shot start initiation pressure for the slight, 1 thou oversize. Any advice?
Cheers

[marky123]

I'm having another go......
I moved house,I was only 100m from the sea when I tried HT previously,I think the humidity killed the HT.
Today its an Rh reading of 31% at 34C.
Still using the swaged projectiles.
Will report
MARK

[HI-TEK]

I'm having another go......
I moved house,I was only 100m from the sea when I tried HT previously,I think the humidity killed the HT.
Today its an Rh reading of 31% at 34C.
Still using the swaged projectiles.
Will report
MARK

How are you doing Marky 123?
Just a couple of comments.
Sea mists, have a great amount of salts containing mist coming off the Ocean. This mist, that contains salts can cause problems, as when water dries off, the salty residue is very Hygroscopic and drying is a real problem.
Using Swaged projectiles can also be a problem in two ways.
One, to swage Lead alloy, normally a lube is used for extrusion. That in itself will cause adhesion problems as lubes cannot be totally removed from alloy surfaces..
Second, the Swaging produces a very slick sealed surface, and coatings will find it difficult to stick.
Now that you are in a different area, it will be interesting to see how your coating has gone.

[Ausglock]

And follow the directions this time.

[marky123]

Ah the English sense of humour

[Grmps]

That would be Austrailian and sadly enough it's not funny. To many people read the directions on how to do HiTek coating, think some part of the directions can't be right, do it the way they think it should be done and wonder why it doesn't work... Over and over and over and over ......

[Ausglock]

Yep. Australian and bloody proud of it!
In my day job, I oversee all the quality control for a hardwood flooring manufacturing plant.

Quality control and repeatability is the key to product success.
If you can't follow instructions, to the letter, you no longer work for me.

I use this same principle for coating bullets.
Instructions are there due to numerous trial and error testing results.

I have remelted probably 1 ton of bullets over the last 5 years of coating testing due to process trials.
This testing has lead to the instructions available for the HITEK coating.
If you think you can short cut the process and have it work, Think again. I have probably already done that and had the failure before you.
Yes. There are variables due to oven design and alloy used. But the basic process remains the same.
In the last 5 days, I have coated and baked over 65,000 bullets with 2 coats. Zero failures. Why? Because I follow my own instructions.... to the letter. no shortcuts.

[Avenger442]

Gosh, our mistake guys. I thought it was still a colony:bigsmyl2:. Got to go back and study it again.

Ausglock and the others are right. When you start especially, follow the instructions. Then after you have had much success following the instructions you can mess around with it a bit if you want. Just remember some experiments fail. Thick coat will fail eventually on smash test I know I've done it. It's not a jacket but a lube. Failure is flakes not a dusting. Think cracked off in big flakes and down to the lead or last coat. Incorrect cook temps and/or time will fail on wipe test. Fail on wipe is whole coat comes off down to lead or last coat with about 30 seconds of rubbing with solvent. If you get a little bit of color it's never proven to be a big thing with mine. Some bullets that have failed you can sometimes shoot. Just remember that, if you do, you take the chance of having something in your barrel that you don't want there.

If you get failures following the instruction then this forum is here to help. Most of the people on here have an amazing amount of patients with someone trying to learn. Just remember that there are a lot of things involving the lead that is being coated both alloy and/or surface and contamination and your particular gun that can cause leading. If you have been shooting conventional lubes with that lead in that gun and it was not leading. If this lead has not been sized before coating but just cast. If you have followed the instructions and know your mix time and temp are right. If there is no failure in a wipe or smash test. Then I can see no reason Hi Tek should fail to work. Lot of ifs that apply to other lubes.

Works for me above 2700 fps 13 +/- BHN lead (Lee tester) in my 308, right at 3000 fps 20 BHN lead in the 223 and my 45-70 loves the stuff with loads and leads appropriate to situation. We have had some guys give positive feedback on 375 H&H and other magnums. In pistol I would think even the .500 with pressures in the rifle range should easily handle Hi Tek.

[Avenger442]

This thread definitely got me back to casting. I'm reading page five now,already ordered an oven (25€) and Hi-Tek materials.

I used to shoot more cast but eg. a 9mm permanently suppressed carbine, cast boolit and boolit lube just don't mix well. I used to do that,not anymore.

Reports to follow,can't wait to enter this new world. Thanks everyone for contributing.

Welcome to the baking class.

[dikman]

Page 5???? I think you've got a few to go :lol:

[brewer12345]

I am tempted to try my hand at coating some boolits. How good a convection over do I need? Can I get away with the $40 black and decker convection toaster oven I see for sale on Walmart's website?

For the beginner, what color would you suggest? Thinking about 45 ACP and rifle (35 Rem and/or 30-06).

[slide]

The black and decker will probably work. Check the temp and don't just go by the dial. They can be way off. Any of the colors will work for 45 acp. Pick the one you like. I have no advice on the rifle rounds. Avenger442 and some of the other guys have coated rifle bullets. They will see this post and offer some advice. You will need to read the instructions and follow them. So many guys never double check the temp in the ovens or they think they can substitute this for that. Some guys nail it the first time at bat,most don't. It took me several trys before I got it down. It is a great product.

[brewer12345]

Thanks. I are good at following directions, so no worries on that one. I am the kind of person that reads the manual for every appliance purchase before even plugging it in.

[Grmps]

I like Black cherry. any of the metallic's would be good for riffle

[slide]

One more thing I should mention. Weigh out your bullets and hi-tek powder. Measure your acetone. That way you have the same weight of bullets,the same amount of coating. Same results! I assume you will order from Donnie. He is a great guy and is always willing to help. Hi-tek Joe developed the coating and is always ready to help. Ausglock has coated more bullets than all of us put together. He can be very direct,doesn't mean anything by it, just tell him to go jump in a bloody roo's pouch!

[slide]

You can't go wrong with NOE molds. Top notch and great customer service to boot.

[glockfan]

I am tempted to try my hand at coating some boolits. How good a convection over do I need? Can I get away with the $40 black and decker convection toaster oven I see for sale on Walmart's website?

For the beginner, what color would you suggest? Thinking about 45 ACP and rifle (35 Rem and/or 30-06).

got exactly that one.

added a clay -brick i've placed on oven's bottom to help recovery time a little ; perfect for hi tek....so much that i bought a second one ; with 2 i'm able to cook over a mille in an hour or so.i use stacked trays in each unit.

i'm quenching before hi tek. water here comes from an artesian well (we're mountain top) , cristallin fresh water , so i experienced 0 adherence problems , but i know some walked through troubles where WQ was the culprit.

[glockfan]

I like Black cherry. any of the metallic's would be good for riffle

Grmps....is ''texas tea''' considered a ''metallic''' color?

which color enters into this class?

are they displaying different properties than the ''non metallic''' color ?

i'm greedy of questions because over here,the product is scarce and only 2 colors can be found lol ;
while i see that in fact many other colors exists ; in thruth it appears that hi tek has a complete array of colors.

to me hi tek gets me the best coating possible : doesn't add to the diameter(ok..maybe 0.001-2), the best lube as it is dry so no dealing with sticky and smoky lube) ,barrel fooling is minimal cuze hi tek seals the boolit even with only one coat, won't smoke the whole line of fire like some lube does) , resizing is a breeze with hi tek and it is easily felt trough out the handle....


frankly ,once you master the process and respect the ''recipe''' it,s impossible to fail at it and this product rules out most of the bothering factors related to boolit lubes..

[dikman]

glockfan, I'm not sure I see the point of quenching before coating, as the heat from baking will probably undo any additional hardness you may have got from the quenching, whereas quenching after the final coat may have some benefit.

[brewer12345]

Metallics include kryptonite green?

[ioon44]

Yes, kryptonite green is a metallic and one of my favorite colors.

[glockfan]

glockfan, I'm not sure I see the point of quenching before coating, as the heat from baking will probably undo any additional hardness you may have got from the quenching, whereas quenching after the final coat may have some benefit.



i'm going to try the other way around dikman!

reflecting on this question a little more, in theory, quenching has a hardening effect because of the contrast hot-cold......following this trail, yes ,quenching ONLY ONCE , after the LAST heat cycle of the boolit make a lot of sens ; i've read somewhere that consecutive heat cycles defeats the hardening effect instilled by quenching.

[Grmps]

one (1) short heat cycle of Baking PC or HT coating will defeat the hardening effect instilled by quenching.
AND
Quenching is a good way to contaminate your boolits before coating.

[Avenger442]

Petander
My first experience with Hi Tek, about 4 years ago now, was with the metallic 1035 Gold in the older liquid version. It is now an easier to mix powder. But I have shot rifle with some non-metallic and metallic powder versions with success. Low pressure in the 45-70 (max loads around 45,000 psi and big bullet) make it a good candidate for lower BHN lead and any Hi Tek coating. If I shot 9 mil. like a lot of other guys on here I would like the extra insurance of a metallic for that smaller bullet at 35,000 psi. Even though it is a lower pressure it is a smaller bullet and needs to repel more heat per surface area. I think that is the idea of having the metallic (Joe correct me if I'm wrong). And, of course, it can add a sparkle for those that just have to have purdy. I'm one of those guys that tends to sometimes over do things. So three coats of a metallic is what I use in .308 and .223.

But my experience is that if your not just trying to "ring the snot out of it" with the highest load pressure, lowest possible BHN, no gas check and your just looking for the most accurate load your not going to get leading with any of the coatings properly applied. Especially in handguns. But my most accurate loads in rifle have been shot with the metallic 1035 Gold. Those are near the starting load to middle load in the pressure range. My best shots in .308 have been on the lower end but still high enough pressure for good accuracy and terminal ballistics out to 200 yards on deer. Haven't tried 300 yet. Would probably never get or take that shot anyway.

As to the oven, I started with a $15 second hand convection oven that only had a place for one tray. While it never failed to cook usable bullets, color was not consistent through the tray because the air movement was not so great and the heating elements were close to the bullets. Door finally fell apart on it. I'm now baking with a Hamilton Beach model 3119R with the heating elements controlled by a PID. It will handle two trays ten pounds of lead total. That is probably it's max. The guys on the forum have brought me a long way from when I started. The Black and Decker should be fine. If you want to go uptown and spend about $300 you can go with Breinville. I understand that Ausglock has had good success with that brand. Seems their temperature dials might be closer to accurate. I'm too thrifty to go with that. Got a coupon that would have got me one for around $200 and still could not make myself do it. Bought the HB for under a hundred after shopping around. The biggest difference between the two is air circulation and the heat control dial are better on the Breinville. The Hamilton Beach dial was off by 50 degrees at 400 F but it's air circulation is adequate. PID fixed the dial situation and parts for it from China were about $20 off of Ebay as I remember. The Black and Decker will probably have the same problem with the dial. You can go cheap and by a thermometer to go inside the oven with the bullets. A good one is about $3. And temp setting on it can be verified with boiling water. Something that I suggest you do since these can be off but not as bad as the dial on the oven. The dial one that I have is actually adjustable. I use both PID and thermometer in the oven. That over doing thing again.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Avenger442;4329370]Petander
If I shot 9 mil. like a lot of other guys on here I would like the extra insurance of a metallic for that smaller bullet at 35,000 psi. Even though it is a lower pressure it is a smaller bullet and needs to repel more heat per surface area. I think that is the idea of having the metallic (Joe correct me if I'm wrong). And, of course, it can add a sparkle for those that just have to have purdy. I'm one of those guys that tends to sometimes over do things. So three coats of a metallic is what I use in .308 and .223.


Avenger,
all the coatings all are very good at heat reflectance. They all work.
Have a look at U-Tube https://youtu.be/9ru_NYp7Y6c

The modified "metallic" types, contribute to final colour, and do provide an increase in heat reflecting property, and also adds to load bearing strength of the coatings.
The materials used "metallics", simply act like a range of very thin irregular shaped platelet particles, that overlap each other and are locked inside coatings. These reinforce and help repel heat as well.
These materials have compressing absorption capacity, and can be regarded as very thin sponge like flat platelet particles, and this renders film as being a little more flexible, take higher loads, and help with reflecting heat especially with high energy applications.
As you said, they also add to the "purdy" requirements.

In a very rough comparison, if you look at Fiberglass, the resin by itself is very brittle and fragile. Using fibres like Carbon filaments/strands and mesh, Glass strands, or Glass mesh is used to strengthen the resin used, and offers better impact resistance.

Hi-Tek coatings do not contain Fiberglass or Carbon Fibres to achieve the film properties.

I believe that there are videos produced by Gateway Bullet co, where this heat resistance was demonstrated. I also am aware of various people placing side by side, coated and non coated cast onto hotplate, and tried to melt the Hi-Tek coated projectiles alongside Wax lubed cast with gas burners.
The Wax lubed alloy melted, and the Hi-Tek coated alloy did not melt and sat in molten Lead from waxed alloy. This showed how effective the Hi-Tek coating was to prevent/repel heat transfer into the alloy.
I hope I have answered your question.

[glockfan]

one (1) short heat cycle of Baking PC or HT coating will defeat the hardening effect instilled by quenching.
AND
Quenching is a good way to contaminate your boolits before coating.

Grmps...could you explain your point of view on contaminant transported by water ?

i mean....the explanation i make to myself is that,some fresh waters may transport some particules which may sticks to the lead , and some are free of those contaminant ?

anyways....i guess that quenching after the last hi tek coating is probably the right thing to do,and this is what i'm gonna do from now on.

[dikman]

Petander, might be a bit tricky fitting a PID to that oven :bigsmyl2:.

Glockfan, not everyone has access to good clean water, much of it has a high mineral content. Basically, you don't want to risk getting anything on the boolit surface prior to coating as keeping them as clean as possible is the go.

[shootinxd]

I am having a bit of an issue, I apply 1 coat, size, apply a send coat and size again. This is exposing a small area of the bullet. Should I apply a thinned out 3rd coat to prevent leading issues? These are 9mm sized to .357" (barrel slugs right at .355") I am using the Hi Tek red and gold. All pass the wipe and smash test.

[glockfan]

I am having a bit of an issue, I apply 1 coat, size, apply a send coat and size again. This is exposing a small area of the bullet. Should I apply a thinned out 3rd coat to prevent leading issues? These are 9mm sized to .357" (barrel slugs right at .355") I am using the Hi Tek red and gold. All pass the wipe and smash test.

my buddy told me his lyman resizer is peeling the PC AND hi tek off. the lee resizing system don't .perhaps the fact the lee system resize the boolits by the bottom and the lyman 4500 and rcbs by the ogive has something to see ?? not sure it's what you're experiencing right now, but your post reminded me this conversation i got with my shooting buddy this past week end. i'm using the lee system right now, but i bought a 4500 lyman resizer coupkle weeks ago which is now waiting for me to pick it up at the store....if this is true, i'm gonna sell the lyman resizer right here on this forum at half the price lol.

[dikman]

For what it's worth I started off resizing after the first coat and then again after the second but now I just resize after the second. I couldn't see the point in resizing until I've finished coating (saved me a bit of work too). I've never had any issues with the lead showing through, resizing both .38 in a Lee sizing die and .44 in a home-made die.
If the resizing is showing lead it sounds to me like your die may have a problem?

[shootinxd]

I am using a RCBS for sizing. I think I will try the lee push through and see what happens. But don't all resizers shave the bullet?

[ioon44]

No all sizers don't shave the bullet, I use the Star for my Hi-Tek sizing and have never had this happen.
I had a Lyman 450 and tried to size some .30 cal with Hi-Tek and it pealed off the coating, I think it has to do with the size and configuration of the lube ports and quality of the die finish.
I guess one could have a custom sizer die made with out any lube ports for a Lyman/RCBS sizer.

[Avenger442]

We have had discussions on here about the sizing dies taking the coating off and needing to be polished on the inside. I use all Lee dies for sizing because when I started casting I didn't use conventional lubes. I had one Lee die that was taking the coating off and asked this forum what to do. The answer came back, polish the inside of the die with some metal polish and a polishing wool or pad mounted in a drill or dremel tool. Did that and the die stopped taking the coating off. All of my sizing dies get a polish job when I buy them now. I think Ausglock uses Mother's metal polish. I use some off brand that I picked up at the time. Wools/polishing bits can be bought off Ebay or in hardware stores here.

It also makes sense to me that if you had a lube port inside the die that it could have a slight sharp edge on it that would remove coating. If it was this problem it would probably take something a little rougher than polishing compound. Say extremely fine metal sand paper or emery cloth on a dowel mounted in a drill. This should remove the sharp edge. The sand paper could ruin the die and it would have to be carefully done a little at a time. Would probably try the metal polish first. Some of the manufacturers will swap out items you are not happy with. And I usually tell them why before swapping.

[lazs]

485 pages? love it! So a few years back I got into the whole coating thing after using a conventional lube/sizer for many years. I started with powder coat and had some success and some bad stuff. It is at the worst.. difficult to get right and adds a lot of size to bullets. Still.. it worked pretty good and I will still do it from time to time. I bought some coated bullets from Missouri bullet and then ended up buying powder and mixing as per instructions. I wish I could say that all went perfectly from the first batch. This did not happen. there is a slight learning curve to the Hi-Tek process. This thread seems to cover about everything and even stuff that ... I don't know... may not be all that big a deal?

So far... what have I found? me and the red copper do not get along nor me and the black. The red copper tends to be not a color I like (I know picky) and somewhat more 'lumpy' than others.. the black? tends to be more flat black for me. All pass the smash test.

Things I did wrong... oven was/is way off on the temp scale. bought a cheap oven thermometer and now 400 degrees on the dial is not 400.. more like 425. marked a line on the dial/plate. shook the wet bullets too long.. better they are a bit wet and air dry. This may be a tad controversial after reading so many posts but... I run the mix leaner now. More acetone. mixes that have sat for a long time? I just add an ounce of new acetone... shake it up good. Too much powder and I get lumpy bullets. for me the first coat should barely cover with some bare lead spots especially in the crimp/grease groove.

So.. what I do.. Mix a tad lean. I like a root beer brown color or the kryptonite green.. the root beer is copper and black and whatever mixed. I preheat the oven (cheap Black and Decker) doing that right now actually. Shake up my mix which is in a container that looks a lot like some condiment squeeze bottle but with Oz measurement marked on it. Squirt in plenty in the margarine tub I use. shake around till it starts to resist shaking a bit..kinda a feel thing.. dump on oven mat.. do another 50 or so the same way on another mat.. maybe another 50 or so on another and so on. this is all indoors in my kitchen by the way.. I read BB's or whatever while things are drying and heating and whatever. made a screen from maybe way too expensive mesh and put a cut up oven mat on it.. take it out of the oven and dump dried bullets onto it.. I kinda keep em apart from each other but no special care here. I check the setting on the oven and turn the timer for .... ahhh... 12 to 15 minutes.. Pull em out after and oooooow and ahhh over the color. LOL.. put the next batch in as they are most likely dry by now. so on and so on.. when the first coat bullets are cool enough to hold in your hand? next coat. My mix is lean... I admit that.. but that works best for me.. the result is that often I will do three coats to get all the bare spots coated.

Sooo.. now I got all these really neat looking bullets. I also have a lube/sizer machine that is pretty worthless to me at this point.. I have also bought the Lee push through sizers for all my calibers. Soo.. the hundreds and hundreds of bucks spent on the old machine is pretty much wasted.. and a hundred or so is now invested in Lee dies. In fact.. I have even opened a few up for bigger diameter bullets. But.. it is actually fun and not a chore. The bullets are 'slick' enough that picking them up is sometimes hard LOL... running em through the Lee dies is easy peasy.. I can do 100 before the container is full.. a second or two for each bullet.

Soo.. my conclusion after thousands of these bullets? It is a no brainer. The learning curve is almost nothing if you get a little advice. No smoke when you shoot. Accuracy and velocity is at LEAST in the conventional cast/lube range. I run em side by side with my chronometer.. I shoot from sandbags side by side at 25 yards. There is no reason in my opinion for me to dust off the cobwebs on my lube/sizer .

lastly.. I own a fair amount of revolvers. Now.. conventional wisdom says that you fit the cast/lube bullet to the chamber throat.. which.. I have always done. but revolvers I have vary quite a bit. I might have to go say .433 for one 44 mag gun and another won't accept anything bigger than .430 If I HT coat all my 44 bullets at .430... ta daaa! they all shoot good and... no LEADING and.. the guns and my hands clean up... easy peasy So yeah.. .I am hooked at this point.

lazs

[wlkjr]

I use a Lee sizer and for 9mm I coat twice then size. Have had no coating to come off. For my .45 I coat twice, size, then do a third coat. My .45 mold leaves a ridge on both sides that makes the coating come off when sizing.

[Ausglock]

I never got good results with RCBS or Lyman sizer dies with the holes for the grease lube to come out. These holes always tore the coating off.
But the Lee push through work fine.
If you have a lubesizer and want to use it for sizing coated bullets without destroying the coating, Get onto Lathesmith on this forum. He makes pushthrough dies for nearly any lubesizer. Extremely great products and if it says .3565" it IS .3565"
I use his sizer dies in the Magma Lube master/Size master.

[Grmps]

I've gone from the Lee to the NOE Bushing Push Through Size Die
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=104

After the initial investment of $39.95 for the Push Through Size Die Body
the bushings are $9.75 And the Push Rod is $7.50

You only need 1 Push Rod per caliber and the Lee Pushrods will work with the NOE dies

So-- if you have/need several different diameters in (SAY) 38 caliber you BUY 1 Push Rod $7.50 once and the bushingS will cost $9.75 for each size you need

NOE has so many more sizes than Lee
NOE also offers nose sizing bushings
AND seeing you only need 1 die body and the bushings are 5/8" (16MM) long they store in a much smaller space

[ioon44]

Bushing Adapter for Star sizer, I didn't know NOE made this adapter, some thing to keep in mind if I need to set up for a different cal than I use now.

[glockfan]

I never got good results with RCBS or Lyman sizer dies with the holes for the grease lube to come out. These holes always tore the coating off.
But the Lee push through work fine.
If you have a lubesizer and want to use it for sizing coated bullets without destroying the coating, Get onto Lathesmith on this forum. He makes pushthrough dies for nearly any lubesizer. Extremely great products and if it says .3565" it IS .3565"
I use his sizer dies in the Magma Lube master/Size master.



thanks again for the infos Trevor.....what would we do without the bank of infos you really are LOL.

i was a little deceived when i learned the lyman-rcbs was a no go regarding resizing hi tek'ed or PC'ed boolits, because such lubri sizer can do it all , '''greased''' rounds , or coated , all in one machine.

i was now forced
to buy a lee press with lee resizing dies since this set up won't peel off my hi tek'ed boolits .

now it all changed with the infos you provided Trevor , i might get back on the lyman route since it seems like i can get some dies that WILL NOT peel off the coating .

will check this with the user you mentionned .

[razorfish]

I haven’t checked in on this thread in a few years but I added an additional step to my process a while back that works for me. Basically before my first coat of Hi-Tek, I process the bullets with a tablespoon of pure acetone. This helps me to judge the amount of time I have to work the Hi-Tek mix and also helps dissolve any oils on the boolits that may have been deposited by me handling them.

(Note that I use one tablespoon because I process in 15lb batches. One tablespoon is about 14.8 ML. One ML per pound of bullets. I usually cast until I have at least 45 lbs of boolits and then coat)

Anyway, works well for me especially because I may cast over the course of a couple weeks before coating and the flash time of acetone varies drastically throughout the year. I call it my “Practice Run”.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lazs]

I like the NOE idea with different bushings. I wish I would have known about em to begin with. I do like the Lee tho and have had really good luck so far with it.. You get no real choices tho for dia and I have bought two of several of the calibers so that I could open one up a thou or so.. I do love the idea of no nose punch and I do like the fact that the Lee has a design where the container is actually the bullet catcher too... You can do 50-100 bullets without doing anything but putting a bullet on the pusher and pulling the press arm.

lazs

[wlkjr]

I like the NOE idea with different bushings. I wish I would have known about em to begin with. I do like the Lee tho and have had really good luck so far with it.. You get no real choices tho for dia and I have bought two of several of the calibers so that I could open one up a thou or so.. I do love the idea of no nose punch and I do like the fact that the Lee has a design where the container is actually the bullet catcher too... You can do 50-100 bullets without doing anything but putting a bullet on the pusher and pulling the press arm.

lazs

Mounting the press upside down is much better.

[dikman]

I'm with him! It might be a bit of messing around sorting out the press initially, but once done it's so much easier and with a suitable container underneath you don't have to stop until you want to. Plus it's quicker.

[Grmps]

A small oven will work with smaller batches. with a small oven, you have a tendency to get dark and light spots. to help eliminate this, halfway through, shake the tray. Another thing that helps all ovens in to cover the bottom of the oven with something that will retain heat. I use ceramic barbaque briquettes, some use fire brick, pieces of metal or ? anything that retains heat and helps bring the temperature back up to 200° quickly.

Double check the ovens temperature setting with an oven thermometer and adjust the oven to get 200°. Almost all small ovens temperature settings are off.

If the boolits are clean, you shouldn't have a problem.

[lazs]

I thought about mounting the press upside down but I really already have 2 single stage presses and not really room for a third just for sizing. Plus.. it would seem a tad harder to get the push rod and die lined up? maybe not.

lazs

[dikman]

The relationship between the push rod and the die doesn't change, so no issue there. The only potential problem is it becomes a pushing action on the handle, rather than pulling. I modified mine to a pull, a bit of work but well worth it. Mine sits under the bench and when I need to use it I bolt it in one of the three places allocated for presses.

[Ausglock]

Put a motor on it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co6h-iTHjP0

[shootinxd]

Put a motor on it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co6h-iTHjP0

Not fair AUSGLOCK! Thats cheating. LOL

[shootinxd]

I never got good results with RCBS or Lyman sizer dies with the holes for the grease lube to come out. These holes always tore the coating off.
But the Lee push through work fine.
If you have a lubesizer and want to use it for sizing coated bullets without destroying the coating, Get onto Lathesmith on this forum. He makes pushthrough dies for nearly any lubesizer. Extremely great products and if it says .3565" it IS .3565"
I use his sizer dies in the Magma Lube master/Size master.

I have used the Lee push thru for my 40 cal, so I went ahead and got one for the 9mm. It arrived today and works great after a little polishing with 1500 grit and some elbow grease.
Man these things shoot great. I can't be happier with the results.

[shootinxd]

217406217407
I coat in small batches of 220 9mm, and 160 40 cal.
Just to add, if you want to mix and keep small batches, see your local body shop for paint sample containers. Hold 50ml.

[lazs]

I coat in even smaller batches.. like 40 or so in 357 and maybe 35 in 44/45 I end up with a couple hundred but have to have three of four trays in line waiting. No big deal really but I do tend to get slight color variations which I don't mind a bit. I like the mix of red copper and black and gold..

lazs

[Ausglock]

I coat and bake roughly 2.5Kg of bullets. This varies with calibre and weight.
9mm 125 = 280 bullets per tray.
9mm 135 = 260 bullets per tray.
9mm 170 = 240 bullets per tray. etc etc

6mls of of coating for these amounts works fine when baked in benchtop convection ovens. one tray per oven bake.

[Avenger442]

Put a motor on it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co6h-iTHjP0

I get plenty of exercise for my right arm with the Lee sizer.
But the creativeness put in man that is shown in that device Trevor is always a joy to behold.

Happy resurrection day everyone.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Petander

Such a nice weather for some casting... while waiting for the coating goods to arrive from Down Under.[/QUOTE]

You will have some fun coating at those temperatures. I hope that you have a warm well ventilated area to work. Drying is going to be your most challenging preparation.
You can coat when cold, but after coating, you will have to warm dry at 40-50C. Alternatively pre-warm projectiles to about 35-40C coat quickly with minimum coating mixture, and let warmth of alloy dry the coating. You may still be required to warm air dry, for first coat to bond well. When you think they are dry, just test bake only a few. Then, before you cook bulk amounts, test all parameters to make sure that first coat has bonded well .
If the few fail tests, keep drying the bulk, and re-test a few each time, until you get good results. Only then bake bulk.

[Ausglock]

Are Tanfoglios known to have problems with HT coated bullets or what is this?

Hitek works fine in Tanwogs. It's just me having a go at tanwog owners... ;-)

[glockfan]

Hitek works fine in Tanwogs. It's just me having a go at tanwog owners... ;-)

i was at the past week end match using my tac sport in standard for the second time ......i noticed that MOST tanfo shooters were having all kind of glitch with their gun: mags in need of forming, FTF's, FTE's....one dude who was wondering how i found all my parts to trick my TS to this level told me he changed most internals on his ST xtreme to make it work without having to rack the slide every 5 rounds lol.

[glockfan]

do you gets that much leading that it requires a drill and brush?

tanfos are good guns on top of being nice. they only need a little love and tweakings when it comes to bring them at speed.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Petander;4340130]
I'm so excited waiting for the coatings to arrive,can't think straight.

Your coatings should arrive during next week. It has been 9 working days since it was posted. Customs and or local postage in each country can delay delivery, and release will depend on you having to pay taxes and or duty before delivery.

[Ausglock]

Just picked up an STI 2011 Tactical 5.0 in 9mm with 6 10 round mags.

Going to get fitted with a comped barrel for Steel challenge and a Delta point pro mounted to the slide.

[glockfan]

Just picked up an STI 2011 Tactical 5.0 in 9mm with 6 10 round mags.

Going to get fitted with a comped barrel for Steel challenge and a Delta point pro mounted to the slide.

sorry, i can't resist.i so love seeing pics of nice guns,in this case your new toy.
https://www.doubletapsports.com/image/cache/data/sti-tactical-5.0-ds-500x500.jpg


wow. nice buy. sti's are right there with SV's !!

did you also got the full stainless grip ,and, is your new blaster is for use in the new carry optic division?
seems like STI's gen 2 mags won't need forming.

i'm still eyeing the sti DVC limited ,but my new tactical sport works so well that i bough another one. pretty much the same handling characteristics than 2011's. i'm happy .

now i need to work my new 40 mold and proceed to a load developpment for the games.

i so love the hi tek old gold. if the weather can start to cooperate, so i can cook my rounds outdoor.......i have trouble with the wife who got gifted (!!!) with as many olfactives cells than a german shepard lol

[Ausglock]

Yep. That is it. Only mine comes with the Novak style adjustable rear sight.

[glockfan]

Yep. That is it. Only mine comes with the Novak style adjustable rear sight.

that is a plus. the novak adjustable rear is solid like a rock. it won't move. incrdible how well built those red dots for pistols are. they get rocked and shaked hard mounted on the slide,yet a good one won't need re-zeroing. i've heard that aim point is maybe more desirable than eotech's , which have kind of dropped in quality in the recent years.

[glockfan]

pfffft.ve-ry niiice.

[Ausglock]

https://i.imgur.com/nUHU4jll.jpg
Here's mine. Your going to enjoy that STI. Runs 100% with any weight bullet (Hi-Tek'd of course) from 95-160 gr.

Nice. That is the rear sight on mine. But mine is full dustcover with bull barrel. I'm going to run 150gn RN over 3gr AP-70 in 9mm. Should be around the 133 Power factor.
I think AP-70 is sold in the USA as Hodgdon Universal.

[Tazza]

Am i going to have to snap a picture of my STI 2011 too? so much 2011 gun porn here :)

[Ausglock]

m/s is a pain in the ****.
Why not do fps??
Nobody knows m/s and couldn't be bothered converting it.

[Tazza]

hehe i had to google it to convert it.

850 FPS

I don't know why people work on m/s either, for as long as i have been shooting, it's always been fps too

I have been in touch with Joe about giving Hi-Tek a go, he doesn't like the stuff i'm using and hi-tek should go further for less. I think the application of Hi-Tek will be less wasteful too, experimentation will be in my future :)

[HI-TEK]

I have been in touch with Joe about giving Hi-Tek a go, he doesn't like the stuff i'm using and hi-tek should go further for less. I think the application of Hi-Tek will be less wasteful too, experimentation will be in my future :)

Tazza,
I have no ill feeling towards the stuff you are using at all. It is courses for horses.
Yes, the Hi-Tek will work out far cheaper than what you are using, and, if calculations are correct, the Hi-Tek would be about 1/4 the price what you are paying for current product.
You already are in contact with very experienced people who use the Hi-Tek, so I don't think you will have problems. Help is very close at all times.

[Ausglock]

My consultancy fee just went up...:bigsmyl2:

[HI-TEK]

My consultancy fee just went up...:bigsmyl2:

You may have missed out bad this time, your fees are much too high, and you may have been outbid by another good guy Grem....

[Ausglock]

Yeah. In OZ we use metric, but all things related to casting, reloading is in imperial.

[Tazza]

Joe - i know you didn't have any ill feelings about the coating i'm using, you were just passing on your knowledge on the subject. You have far more experience with coatings than i do, so it's very good advise, i really do appreciate the time you took to talk to me about it.

Trevor was the one that told me to look you up, so looks like he beat grem.... to the punch this time :)

I'm sure with all the knowledge around here, i won't have any problems sorting out any potential problems that may come up.

[Avenger442]

You may have missed out bad this time, your fees are much too high, and you may have been outbid by another good guy Grem....

Joe
You know; I'll consult for free. But I probably would not put in the time Treavor does for you. After all, sometimes, you get what you pay for. But then a Sig is no more accurate or dependable than a gun you will pay $100 less for. :bigsmyl2: Didn't mean to insult you guys who paid the $100, but it's the truth.

[HI-TEK]

I
No coating here yet,testing the oven and it looks just fine around 190-225°C.

218251

The chips look great, I can almost smell them here.
I am annoyed at apparent slow postal deliveries. I am told 6-9 days, and some has taken 3 weeks plus.
I cant find out why, as Postal service is very non co-operative.
Have you checked with tracking number?

[slide]

And now the madness begins!!!!!!!!!

[Avenger442]

I'm going to admit to some ignorance in the category of sub sonic loads in rifle. I've never shot one in my rifles. I got close once with the 45-70. I can understand how they would help prevent leading, especially with lower BHN lead.

Petander
If I read that correct you getting 1 1/2 " groups at 300 meters. Wow that's 328 yards. Even with the good bullets I'll bet you do a good bit of work on the cases, too. Your making me jealous.

If you can get that with cast let me know. Really need an excuse to buy a new mold.:bigsmyl2:

[Elkins45]

I just ordered a jar of the Hi-Tek powder. One question: how badly does this stuff stick when cooking? We have an electric oven in our basement and I thought about using it if that would be safe.

[slide]

If you use that oven for food do not use it for hi-tek! As far as the sticking you don't have to worry about it if you don't get your coating too thick and you do the mid bake tray shake. Read the insstructions several times before you start. You may have to go to wal mart and buy a small oven to do your hi tek in (convection works the best)

[Avenger442]

Elkins45
What Slide said....
I have coated too thick more times than I like to think about. At first, was trying for a jacket on the bullet. Which was the wrong way. This is a baked on dry lube. And they do stick worse with a thick coat. All it takes for the first coat is a little. You can still see the lead through the color after the drying process. You do not need a thick coat for this stuff to work. But sticking together has never been a big problem for me. I do occasionally get some which separate with no problem. When you put them in the oven the coating needs to be dry. Starting out, sometimes we get in a hurry. This is a very thin coating. One of it's advantages. I hardly ever do the "take the tray out half way through the time, shake it and turn it around" as some do. But it is a good idea to maintain the uniform color and unstick any that might have stuck together.

You sound like me, a guy who likes to use what he has on hand to do something. I'm about to fix my riding mower for the umpteen time since I bought it and was going to look through some nuts and bolts I've saved up over the years to do it with so I wouldn't have to go buy some. Using you electric oven with no air circulation can work just not as well.

If your in a hurry to start; want to get off to a good start and want your color to look good a small, $100 and under, convection oven from some place is the thrifty way to start. If you want to coat large amounts at one time you will probably want something bigger later or outfit a regular oven like you have in your basement with convection. If you don't mind waiting a while start looking through thrift stores and yard sales to find a used convection oven. But plug it up and make sure the fan works. I started Hi Tek with a small one tray used yard sale convection oven that I bought for $15. My bullets weren't the best looking but shot fine.

Guys
This oven question has brought up something that I was thinking about some time ago. I am by far not a "prepper". But I do have on hand a fair amount of emergency food and water, medical supplies and other stuff for some situations that might happen. If we had an event that caused us to loose electricity for a long period of time, talking many months or years, and couldn't bake bullets with it. What would you do?

I can cast over an open fire and have plenty of lead to do it with. I have learned how to make black powder and how to procure the ingredients. By the way, the home made powder works good in big shells 44 mag, 45 colt and probably 45-70. Haven't tried it in the 45-70 yet. It's just dirty stuff. I have figured out a way to reuse primers. And I have on hand some of the wax/grease lubes. I just don't want to use them. How could we bake Hi Tek over an open fire or some wood stove or something?

[Elkins45]

If you use that oven for food do not use it for hi-tek! As far as the sticking you don't have to worry about it if you don't get your coating too thick and you do the mid bake tray shake. Read the insstructions several times before you start. You may have to go to wal mart and buy a small oven to do your hi tek in (convection works the best)

Autocorrect changed “stink” to stick. I was asking how bad it smells, but I think you answered my question anyway.

[dikman]

Once you've used an oven for curing Hi-Tek don't even think about using it for food! My little oven smells from the stuff!

Avenger, it's an interesting question. You're always experimenting so I think you should try it and let us know, but I reckon it would be pretty tricky to hold a consistent temperature. Maybe one of those small wood-fired bakers' ovens would work? Again, temperature control would be the issue but at least it would be an enclosed heating area.

[Spaceball]

Will I have finally finished my oven. It is an 600mm kitchen oven that I picked up from Gumtree for $50. Had very little use but a dead cooling fan motor, fix that and added a $20 PID temperature controller. Re-wire the whole lot so only the heater ring around the fan is connected. Now the front switch has two settings, 1. fans on, 2. fans and heating element. Thermocouple will sit just about the tray of bullets.
218437218438218439

[Avenger442]

Well I have about two months before I can start another experiment. Too many irons in the fire.

[perminator]

looking to move from powder coating to hi-tek does hi-tek offer a sample pack of colors to try out or what colors work the best i think i read somewhere on here that the metalic colors coated easier?

[slide]

Contact Donny at Hi-Performance bullet coatings. He has a post right above.

[dikman]

Spaceball, looks good! Only problem with a full-size oven is they take up too much space (which I haven't got).

[perminator]

ok i assume those are all metallic colors kinda leaning towards the brick red anyways im using a non convection kitchen oven with a pid controller that has worked well for powder coating will that be fine or do i really need a convection type for this coating?

[slide]

Try it and see how it goes. The convection oven fan circulates the heat for more even cooking of the coating. Some guys do fine with just a small oven with no fan. If your oven doesn't work you can buy a convection oven at wal-mart or the local Goodwill store. The last one I bought at wal-mart was $70.00. I can do around 400 bullets if I double the trays. I generally use one. The main thing on your oven is check and verify that the temp is where it needs to be. Those dials can be way off.

[Grmps]

My experience with NON-convection toaster ovens is they can only do small batches efficiently due to uneven heating from having no air circulation. the boolits in one area will be dark (overcooked) before all the boolits are completely baked.

Good convection ovens are not expensive, I found a good OSTER convection oven at a thrift store for $20. New ovens aren't that expensive either.
Costco has a good one for $49.99
https://i.imgur.com/6e50jE8.png

And I've been run thousands of pounds of boolits through https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0097D2T7S/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

regardless of the oven, you need to re-check the temperature every time the surrounding temperature changes due to the location and type of heat sensor the oven has. -- A PID (like yours) is the perfect solution. But I don't think even a PID will allow you to bake batches of boolits over say 2-3 pounds.

If you shake the tray/boolits thoroughly at the halfway point you'll have a better chance of getting even baking.
if you go to Donies site http://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/hi-tek-supercoat-powder-3-5-oz-container/
and click on a color you can see pictures of the coated boolits.

(I like the black cherry) commercial coaters like the Kryptonite Green

[perminator]

maybe i should have used the word stove not oven its a full size not a toaster type if that makes a difference since the heat is spread better i would think not as concentrated i see several deals on used full size convection stove / ovens for around $100 i do have a small toaster type convection but i also cast with a ballisticast mark II automated machine so i will be baking in quantity

[Grmps]

If you line/cover the bottom of your oven with a heat retaining material (I use ceramic BBQ briquettes in my countertop convection ovens), others use fire brick, chunks a steel or ?, anything to absorb the heat and help bring the oven back up to temperature faster after opening the door.
In my larger Oster countertop convection oven, I can bake 18# at a time.
If your doing volume and want consistency I would recommend a convection oven Ausglock can help you better on that, he coats in volume and commercially. He runs a kitchen size convection oven with 2 pid controllers. Also if you run a PID on a convection oven, you need to isolate/re-wire the fan giving it it's own power supply so it doesn't cycle a kajillion times with the PID and burn out

[dikman]

Perminator, I reckon if you're going to be cooking largish batches then you really need to get a fan-forced oven to ensure rapid even heat circulation. I use a smallish non-convection oven and do just under 4 lbs at a time but can only use the middle shelf and as Grmps said some come out slightly darker than others (which doesn't bother me or the guns!).

[perminator]

Thanks for the info everyone I'll be trying it out this week and see how it goes in my standard oven if not I see a fair amount of used convections around here. like anything else in this hobby changing something requires buying something, buy something else then get more of something lol

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[Ausglock]

Will I have finally finished my oven. It is an 600mm kitchen oven that I picked up from Gumtree for $50. Had very little use but a dead cooling fan motor, fix that and added a $20 PID temperature controller. Re-wire the whole lot so only the heater ring around the fan is connected. Now the front switch has two settings, 1. fans on, 2. fans and heating element. Thermocouple will sit just about the tray of bullets.
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Very similar to what I did. But I have element around the fan and the top element operating. Each has it's own SSR and these 2 SSR's are controlled by another SSR from the temp controller. I also added a timer to mine. Can bake 2 trays in 7:30mins. 3 trays in 8mins.

[dansedgli]

Just came here to look at oven specs.

Is a gas oven any good or does it need to be an electric one?

I'm tired of cooking 2kgs of bullets at a time. My wife nags me too much when Im in the shed all day.

How many kg's can you get in a full size kitchen oven?