simple Hi-Tek coating

[Ausglock]

I'm suspecting I wasn't getting a proper cure on my earlier batches.


Sounds about right to me.

[2wheelDuke]

2wheelduke,
If you have any pics of the bullets in question text them to me at 225 324 4501 it is sometimes easier to help diagnose an issue with a picture.
Donnie

I don't know if I have any pics of the bullets, as I may have fired them all by now. They looked great though. Since then, I've done other batches with a longer time, and they came out with more of a darker bronze color instead of the bright gold of my first batches.

[wlkjr]

I did my very first coating today and it turned out well. I mixed 2 tbs. of powder and 3.5 oz. of acetone and squirted a little on about 50 boolits. Let it sit on screen for about and hour and cooked at 400 for about 12 minutes. Did two coats and cooked and let cool and put on another coat to sit overnight to cook for the third coat tomorrow.

[Rich22]

I bake mine at a higher temperature 390-400F 12 minutes. This temp. is measured by two oven thermometers and maintained with a PID. Three coats Gun Metal.
What color are yours coming out of the oven on the last bake? How many coats? Photos if you have them.

Here are two photos of mine after baking final coat.

165493

165494

165495
Those look very good, GM has been a pain in my butt so far. Had multiple failures and still working on it. Bronze has been a total walk in the park, no failures. GM is a REALLY dark grey if what I am getting is correct.

[Avenger442]

Best definition of gun metal grey that I can find is this color165719.

My bullets are darker by about two shades. Probably could lighten them a bit by shorter cook time. But I'm OK with their color and feel even better when I look at the barrel of my gun.

We had a discussion a while back in this thread about cook times and temps. Each of which if you increase over the recommended will darken the color on the colors I have tried. I have not had a leading issue with anything that was cooked longer (up to 30 min.) or hotter ( 420 F). But the color will change. Since I'm more interested in no leading than the color and I believe that we decided there was some advantage to cooking the coating, above the recommended, to a point that it was harder I will cook my bullets at the time and temps I stated. Again, these are measured by two oven thermometers and maintained with a PID. I don't think you have to make this complicated to get no leading.

Joe
Correct me on my remembrance of the discussion on temps times and hardness of coating if necessary.

I've got about 40 pounds of bullets to coat that I just can't get started on. Hoping to try the bronze and the black with these. They are all pistol bullets 38, 357, 44 and 45.

Hey Joe and Ausglock where are we on the orange and blue? Here are the colors I'm looking for 165721165722
Will keep on using HiTek even if it was all black because it works.

[gunoil]

Gunslick... Mate... Long time no see.

What you been up to?

Tryin to suppliment my ss check: Either this will help a lil' or l can drive the 18 wheeler couple days a week.

http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=108168

___my lil' web site below______________________________
velosRus.com

[Ausglock]

Blue is not far from birth. A few test samples were stilborn, but Daddy Joe is working on it.:bigsmyl2:

The orange went brown.... back to the drawing board

[HI-TEK]

Blue is not far from birth. A few test samples were stilborn, but Daddy Joe is working on it.:bigsmyl2:

The orange went brown.... back to the drawing board

Ausglock,
I already smashed the drawing board. Unlike Sheldon, drawing board only confuses me, and over years of trying, no Blue.
Latest trials appeared to provide some success, but all ended up far too dark. They were Blue, but almost a Black Blue. The blue colour was not easily visible, unless viewed in sunlight.
Making up batched using 20gms to 150 mls solvent, did work, but the intensive Dark Blue persisted.
Out of the last 10 trials or so, only about two showed promise. I am working on these to see if I can tweak them.
I am having another go with the Yellow, but am not confident.
I have had some success with a Powdered Dark Green. Picture attached.165761

[dikman]

Avenger, that's pretty close to one of the colours I get with Gunmetal. While I have a couple of different colours, they are really more for a talking point as, like you, I'm not overly concerned with the colour as long as the coating works.

[HI-TEK]

Joe
Correct me on my remembrance of the discussion on temps times and hardness of coating if necessary.

I've got about 40 pounds of bullets to coat that I just can't get started on. Hoping to try the bronze and the black with these. They are all pistol bullets 38, 357, 44 and 45.

Hey Joe and Ausglock where are we on the orange and blue? Here are the colors I'm looking for 165721165722
Will keep on using HiTek even if it was all black because it works.[/QUOTE]

How are you doing Avenger.
Interesting, that orange as your picture, is very close to the colour we got with our experimental Yellow.
The new experimental Blue is getting very close to your other sample colour. Attached is the Blue 818V-2
It is a little darker than your Blue sample colour, but close.
165763

[wlkjr]

My Zombie Green is kinda gold looking. Maybe I cooked it too long. I did two batches and one is lighter than the other. The powder does not stay suspended very long, not nearly as long as the Candy Apple Red.

[Shotgundrums]

My Zombie Green is kinda gold looking. Maybe I cooked it too long. I did two batches and one is lighter than the other. The powder does not stay suspended very long, not nearly as long as the Candy Apple Red.

Try again by mixing and stiring the dry powder. This stuff can settle and components can separate. Probably happens in transient, shipment, bullet company distribution and packaging.

I ordered texastea, zombie green, red copper. The texastea's catalyst was separated in pockets of white. Had to stir and shake a million times before all was blended (yes, cure was affected). Once well blended, curing the black @390C/12min was back to normal. Zombie green had pockets of what looked like concentrated green/yellow pockets and pockets of the gold flake. Red copper had separation of the brilliant red flakeage.

Get all the powder together before making solution.

[Ausglock]

Just like the liquid coating, The powder needs shaking/stirring before measuring the 20gms.

[wlkjr]

I did shake really well but didn't stir. I may need to just junk that small batch and redo it. As far as curing goes, it passed the wipe and smash tests, it's just not as green as I had expected. I'm wondering if smaller boolits require a shorter time or lower temp than say a 230g .45 ? It seems after about 8 minutes the .380 start turning darker. Since I'm really new to this I'm still in the learning stages.

[slide]

Have you checked your oven temp? Don't go by the dial or those little round oven thermometers. Multi-meter is the way to go. Put a couple of bullets in with your mix, it will help with the mixing. The oven temp, mixing the right ratios are very important in making this stuff work. It will set on the shelf for months after mixing. Don't be afraid to use the 20 grams to 100 mils acetone or mek.

[Ausglock]

I did shake really well but didn't stir. I may need to just junk that small batch and redo it. As far as curing goes, it passed the wipe and smash tests, it's just not as green as I had expected. I'm wondering if smaller boolits require a shorter time or lower temp than say a 230g .45 ? It seems after about 8 minutes the .380 start turning darker. Since I'm really new to this I'm still in the learning stages.

It doesn't matter if the bullets are large or small. provided you have the same weight of bullet on the tray.
I do 2Kg (250 9mm bullets) of alloy per tray.
2Kg (200 40cal bullets) per tray.
2Kg (175 45 cal bullets) per tray.
See what I'm getting at???????
Bake 200Deg C for 10 to 12 minutes.
Use a Quality thermometer (not a Layman Lead therm or silly little oven therms, they are not accurate).

Small batches always cause problems. Do 2Kg of bullets as the minimum.

[wlkjr]

I drilled a hole in the back of the toaster over and inserted the probe from my PID. I discovered the oven thermometer I was using was reading low. I set the control to where it reads a low of 386 to a high of 406 degrees over a period of about 10 minutes. I was cooking about 200 95g (which actually weigh 98g) .380 boolits before and they turned out green but a little darker than I had anticipated. I previously was cooking at about 375 degrees but the boolits didn't turn as dark and they passed the wipe and smash tests. And I couldn't scratch the coating off with a thumbnail. I'll try larger batches next time, about 314 boolits.

[slide]

One thing that helps is a convection oven. It has a fan that circulates air inside the oven and helps with the curing. Some of the guys use a toaster oven and make it work just fine. You probably don't want to spend the money on a convection oven until you have gotten your program down pat. If you will pm me and give me your mailing address I will send you some of my bullets coated with the zombie green. Not saying mine are that great but it will give you something to compare to. Photos don't show the colors real good sometimes.

[johnc486]

For months, I have been considering the Hi-Tek coating (been powder coating & Alox tumbling for years) and made an order. I have to say this system sure beats standing boolits to powder coat (time consuming), I'm not knocking powder coating but this is a simpler method (still time consuming). As of now, this will be my primary method of coating till something better comes along, thanks for YouTube videos.

[slide]

I am a convert myself. I used the tumble method of powdercoating. what really bugged me was the bullets sticking to the trays,or aluminum foil, or each other. With the hi-tek the bullets look great and they don't stick No bash towards powdercoating. If you like use it. Where hi-tek really shines is with a big batch of bullets,say a 1000 or so. You can get a rotation going and really go through them. Have you had a chance to shoot any of your bullets yet?

[wlkjr]

One thing that helps is a convection oven. It has a fan that circulates air inside the oven and helps with the curing. Some of the guys use a toaster oven and make it work just fine. You probably don't want to spend the money on a convection oven until you have gotten your program down pat. If you will pm me and give me your mailing address I will send you some of my bullets coated with the zombie green. Not saying mine are that great but it will give you something to compare to. Photos don't show the colors real good sometimes.

I bought a large B&D convection toaster oven at WM for $59 and it works great. The inside dimensions are 16''wX12"deep. I use the middle shelf and it comes with a slide in tray also that put in the bottom slot to act as a baffle. This seems to keep direct heat off the bottom of the bullets. I open the door about 3 times during the cycle and shake the wire tray that I made for about 3 seconds. This seems to keep them from sticking.
I did shoot about a hundred yesterday. I loaded 50 that I sized from .357, which was the final size after coating, down to .356. The other 50 were the .357 that I didn't resize. Both sizes shot about the same but the .356 ones seemed to be a tad better. I sprayed some Hornady One Shot that I use on my cases before loading and ran the remainder back through the sizer. They really went through much easier and the coating looked better.
I threw out the rest of the original mix and mixed another batch. Coated another batch this morning and it appears to be much lighter. I'm letting them sit as I have another small project going on. I did shake the powder really well before I dipped it out of the container, as I did the first time.
Thanks you guys for all the tips and advice.

[zomby woof]

Just like the liquid coating, The powder needs shaking/stirring before measuring the 20gms. Tevor, this is the first time hearing this with the powder. Really? Stir the powder, does it settle?

[Ausglock]

Tevor, this is the first time hearing this with the powder. Really? Stir the powder, does it settle?

It can settle while in transit. I just take the lid off the jar and use a welding rod to stir around and mix it a bit.
or give the jar a quick shake... no big deal.

[johnc486]

Slide I haven't yet, was going to tomorrow but rain is in the forecast (I shoot on my range behind my house). I coated 148 gr LWCs and 158 gr LSWCs to be shot from my 686 & Mod 67, I'll be loading with Bullseye powder (LWC)and H110 for the LSWC, I'll post the results.

[Avenger442]

Joe
Will the 500 Plus keep the coating from binding on the second coat?

[HI-TEK]

Joe
Will the 500 Plus keep the coating from binding on the second coat?

Avenger,
Good question. I am not sure if you would get poorer adhesion or not.
I suppose, the only real way to find out is by doing a few.
Why would you have the 500 + on first coat? Generally the 500+ is used as Mold release.
The 500 + is a very slippery high temperature lube, but I have not had any one tell me that they have applied it to coated alloy.

[Avenger442]

I was having trouble sizing some bullets that were too large, the fault of the caster, and used some on my sizer. Some was on the bullets as they went through the sizer.

Yes I know there is a sizing lube.

Ausglock:
Have you coated bullets that might have a small amount to 500 Plus on them?

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Avenger442;3612588]I was having trouble sizing some bullets that were too large, the fault of the caster, and used some on my sizer. Some was on the bullets as they went through the sizer.

Yes I know there is a sizing lube.

My guess is that a small amount transferred from sizing process should not cause you any grief.
500+ would be useful as sizing lube, as it can be used as a high load lube as well.
I am almost sure that Ausglock may have already experimented in this area, both with 500+ and with the 5000 sizing lube, as I recall him asking me similar questions.

Just had a call from Ausglock, he said that he found that coating stuck OK onto surfaces that had 500+ and 5000 sizing lubes on them.

[Gremlin460]

Just had a call from Ausglock, he said that he found that coating stuck OK onto surfaces that had 500+ and 5000 sizing lubes on them.

They have phones where Ausglock lives!!! Whoda thunk it!!!

[Ausglock]

They have phones where Ausglock lives!!! Whoda thunk it!!!

More than I can say for you, Grem
You are Brisvagas version of Secret Squirrel... No body can contact you..

[HI-TEK]

They have phones where Ausglock lives!!! Whoda thunk it!!!


The phones only work, when the squirrels in power producing cages are fed, and they have energy to generate power for the phones.

[Avenger442]

Joe Ausglock;
Your statements concerning the 500 plus not interfering with adherence of the coating have been confirmed. Cooked them, smashed them, no flaking.

We use soup cans and twine here in Alabama.

[HI-TEK]

Joe Ausglock;
Your statements concerning the 500 plus not interfering with adherence of the coating have been confirmed. Cooked them, smashed them, no flaking.

We use soup cans and twine here in Alabama.

Great news.
Glad we sent you the right way.
I bet they were very slippery with last coat.

Soup Cans and twine is great and reliable.
Updated version is cans, covered with Aluminium Foil as speaker and wire link.

[2alpha81]

I have had success coating with Hi-Tek since I started casting this past year. I didn't even try traditional lube sizing starting out. My current method with Hi-Tek is coat twice and then size. Works great, but the O.D. bearing surface looks shiny from the sizing die. Not a big deal, I just want them to look evenly coated.

So I dont have to read the entire 358 pages of this thread(which I have read most of).......

Do some of you coat once, size, and then apply a second or third coat?

I made about 500 this way last night and am considering changing my method. I haven't shot them yet, but before I do I wanted feedback from experience here...not trying to re-invent the wheel.

[wlkjr]

I just started casting and I also am using Hi-Tek only. I have only cast .380 and .45 so far. I used the Zombi Green for the .380 and did two different batches. One batch I sized after the third coat and applied a fourth. The other batch I sized after the fourth and final coat.
On the .45 I applied three coats of Candy Apple Red and got great coverage. I sized after the final coat and like you got a slick shiny finish on the bearing surface. That does not bother me since it is covered by the case when loaded. I do believe I could have gone with just two coats of the Candy Apple Red but it didn't take that much longer to do an extra coat.
On the Bayou bullets I have been using, there is no shiny surface so I assume they have another coat after sizing.

[Ausglock]

I have had success coating with Hi-Tek since I started casting this past year. I didn't even try traditional lube sizing starting out. My current method with Hi-Tek is coat twice and then size. Works great, but the O.D. bearing surface looks shiny from the sizing die. Not a big deal, I just want them to look evenly coated.

So I dont have to read the entire 358 pages of this thread(which I have read most of).......

Do some of you coat once, size, and then apply a second or third coat?

I made about 500 this way last night and am considering changing my method. I haven't shot them yet, but before I do I wanted feedback from experience here...not trying to re-invent the wheel.

That is how they are supposed to be.
Hard and shiny.
What is the problem???

[slide]

I coat twice and then size if necessary. If the coating is cured properly it should be shiny and slick before sizing. So slick that sometimes one will slip through your fingers. Any way you can post some photos? How much are you sizing?

[2alpha81]

There is no problem, they shoot fine. By shiny, I mean you can tell I sized them after I coated. Similar experience to what wlkjr mentioned above...I used to shoot Bayou and SNS cast coated bullets prior to casting my own. It looks like they put a coat on after they are sized so everything looks evenly coated.

Depending on the mold, I am sizing down between .002-.003. That doesn't take any coating off, just rubs it smooth and has a noticeable difference in texture from the nose radius.

I guess I'm just trying to make them look pretty like the SNS bullets I used to shoot:-P

[Ausglock]

Pretty don't win matches.

[slide]

If they shoot fine and no coating is being scraped off during sizing I wouldn't worry about it.

[Avenger442]

I have tried sizing after first coat, after second coat and after last coat. Ausglock is right it doesn't affect accuracy or cause any leading as far as I can tell. If your just looking for the uniform look you are getting from Bayou size then coat again.

166288 Bronze 500 before last bake.

166289 Bronze 500 after last bake.

I had some trouble with a sizing die with this batch. It was a new Lee die and was not slick enough on the inside when I first started using it. The coating was being pulled off with a bit of lead smeared or pulled down between the die and the plunger as it went through the die. I finally got out of my lazy mode and polished the inside of the die. The point is, my smash test of these showed if you are getting bare spots on sizing after coating it can be coated over. But you cannot size before you coat. These were coated three times.

[2alpha81]

Pretty don't win matches.
Well said...fair enough.

[slide]

I can understand you wanting good looking bullets. With time you will figure out to get where you want. Hang in there!

[Charles L. Cotton]

I kept up with this thread for quite some time, but I've been too busy for the last few months. Rather than search 350+ pages, I hope someone can tell me if two issues have been covered.

First, I know that water quenching your bullets pre-coating won't help because you have to coat and bake them twice. Has anyone tried water quenching them after the second baking? If so, does it work or is the temperature differential too small?

The second question deals with ovens. I'm revamping my garage and I'm considering installing a regular home oven to bake the bullets. It will be 240v electric rather than gas. Is there any reason why I should not use a regular oven? It could sure bake a lot more bullets at one time. I doubt I'll install a full size convection oven just to coat bullets.

Thanks guys,
Chas.

[Ausglock]

regular kitchen ovens will work, provided they are fan forced. I have a Kleenmaid oven I have gutted of the electronics and wiring up with a PID etc etc. Go back a few pages and see the photos of the oven.

[rhill]

This may be a little off topic, but this concerns the hardware cloth baking trays I made. I am tired of being poked, cut, etc from the corners and edges of these thing. I was thinking of using the mesh stapled to the bottom of a hardwood frame for my trays. Will the wood stand up to the short (10-12min.) times in the oven at 390-400 degrees? Sure don't need a fire. I do stay with the boolits as they bake so I can monitor them. Anyone have trays like this? I guess I could make one up and try it out and keep a close eye on the wood frame.

[Avenger442]

I kept up with this thread for quite some time, but I've been too busy for the last few months. Rather than search 350+ pages, I hope someone can tell me if two issues have been covered.

First, I know that water quenching your bullets pre-coating won't help because you have to coat and bake them twice. Has anyone tried water quenching them after the second baking? If so, does it work or is the temperature differential too small?

The second question deals with ovens. I'm revamping my garage and I'm considering installing a regular home oven to bake the bullets. It will be 240v electric rather than gas. Is there any reason why I should not use a regular oven? It could sure bake a lot more bullets at one time. I doubt I'll install a full size convection oven just to coat bullets.

Thanks guys,
Chas.

I and several others have done some experimenting with water drop after last bake. They will probably chime in with their results if they are watching. I have even tried water drop after all the bakes, also helps speed to the next coat by cooling bullets. Success in gaining BHN has been small but measurable for me. Somewhere in the 1-3 BHN range depending on the alloy.... It doesn't seem to hurt the coating. So I usually do it as a matter of course. As you said, if you WD when you cast you will loose most of that hardness when you bake. So if it is 20 BHN 14 days after cast and WD it will not be after you bake even if you WD after bake. Would have to consult my notes to give you more detail.

If you are at all concerned about uniform color you will have to have circulating air in the oven and keep the bullet trays far enough away from the heating elements to let that air keep the bullets temperature more or less the same.

[slide]

There are a few videos on you tube that show trays some of the guys are using. Avenger 442 posted a couple of pictures above. I don't know if those are his baking or drying trays. I used hardware cloth for mine and cut it right up against the squares so no sharp points protrude. May be some photos of trays in this thread,may have to do a search.

[wlkjr]

This may be a little off topic, but this concerns the hardware cloth baking trays I made. I am tired of being poked, cut, etc from the corners and edges of these thing. I was thinking of using the mesh stapled to the bottom of a hardwood frame for my trays. Will the wood stand up to the short (10-12min.) times in the oven at 390-400 degrees? Sure don't need a fire. I do stay with the boolits as they bake so I can monitor them. Anyone have trays like this? I guess I could make one up and try it out and keep a close eye on the wood frame.
When I made my trays from 1/4" hardware cloth, I made the first fold about an inch all the way around and hammered the crease. Then I folded that over another 1 1/4 therefore any cuts were pointed down. I cut the ends and folded around and took bare 12ga. copper wire to hold the folds in place. The bottoms do not lay flat when empty, but when about 4 pounds of boolits are added, it lays out evenly.
I also use a pair of lightweight leather gloves when putting my trays in the oven and when shaking the tray at about 6 minutes during the 12 minute bake. This has worked out well for me.
A 3'x4' piece of hardware cloth cost me about $7 and yielded 6 trays approx. 11"x15" or so.

[rhill]

That is where I made my mistake, I did not fold over the edges. Just when I think I am fairly smart, I find out how dumb I am! Thanks!

[Avenger442]

That is where I made my mistake, I did not fold over the edges. Just when I think I am fairly smart, I find out how dumb I am! Thanks!

Top photo is my baking tray. It is done just like yours rhill. And the cloth gloves I wear when baking are constantly getting hung on the wires sticking up. Wish I had thought to fold it over, too. I saw one like ours somewhere that had what looked like heavy duty aluminum foil folded over the edges. Bottom one is my drying tray. It is a left over from one of my former hobbies and is wood framed. It sits on top of the hot oven sometimes but too big to go inside.

[666damosydney]

Finally got a chance to cast again managed 4kg of 105g swc from my lee 6 banger first coat 6ml per 2kg did two batches now drying zombie green powder 20g to 100ml acatone mix made it up about 3 months ago gave it a long shake.
I found an old food dehydrator so layered 1kg each shelf with a emty shelf top and bottom stuck my pedestal fan on top to blow cold air to dry them i hope 1 hour with fan will do but will leave them over night turn off fan after 1 hour.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8buiyuexxxv3aa7/20160422_173113.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m1494j6jenc52ac/2016-04-22%2017.39.35.jpg?dl=0

[slide]

An hour will generally be more than enough to dry them. Most of the time I will let mine dry for around thirty minutes. From what I saw in the second photo you did a good job! When a guy follows the directions it will work out well. Did they pass the smash and swipe test ok?

[666damosydney]

@slide i havn't cooked them yet was having a few brown cordials lol.
Going cook them after the range today then size them down from .358 to .356 then 2nd coat.
this is my 4th or 5th lot with hitek i have done but first time i dried them like this because was summer when i did the others.

Update cooked 1st coat 10 min about 200c both trays 2kg each passed wile and smash but the heat must of went up a bit on 2nd tray as darker than the first oops.
All been sized and 2nd coat drying so looks like the pedestal fan on top of the food dehydrator trays works well.
Used candy apple red for 2nd coat over the darker ones and zombie green on lighter ones will cook tonight or tomorrow.

[666damosydney]

2nd coat cooked wiped and smashed passed.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yo77mrwxxyhit8m/20160424_080945.jpg?dl=0

Ended up with 558 new 105g swc that should last me 3-4 weeks only shoot once a week as here in australia we can only shoot pistols at the club ranges no home ranges allowed

[wlkjr]

Not being critical but they look like could use another coat.

[Ausglock]

Not being critical but they look like could use another coat.
was thinking the same thing.
Your sizer die need polishing by the looks of it. Seems to be tearing the coating..

[666damosydney]

I was thinging a 3rd coat but lazy lol funny thing was first 200 went through a little tight then last 300 was a lot easyer like butter.
Whats the best easy way to polish the sizing die?

[Ausglock]

I use a wool mop bore cleaner coated with Mothers Bullbar polish and chuck the mop in the dremel and work it backwards & forwards through the sizer die. Then patch it out with a bore cleaning patch on a cleaning rod. do this for like 2 minutes.

[Ausglock]

Finished the new Wall oven conversion today.
all wired up with only 2 heating elements working.
All elements are powered through 240 volt 40amp SSR's. the control power comes from the REX C-100 SSR that then sends signal power to the heating element SSR's. They get a bit warm, but nothing too hot. they all have heatsinks on them.
Circulation fan stops when the door gets opened to save heat.
Baked one tray of 2Kg of bullets. set it at 200 Deg C for 10 minutes. Bullets came out very dark.
2 trays of 2KG each same time and temp. Bullets were also dark for both trays.

Going to try more tomorrow, but start at 7 minutes for 2 trays and see how it goes.

Here is the monster baking the 2 trays.

Going to replace the rotary timer with a Digital timer for more accurate timing. Ordered one from Ebay just now.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20160424_172813.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20160424_172813.jpg.html)

[HI-TEK]

Finished the new Wall oven conversion today.
all wired up with only 2 heating elements working.
All elements are powered through 240 volt 40amp SSR's. the control power comes from the REX C-100 SSR that then sends signal power to the heating element SSR's. They get a bit warm, but nothing too hot. they all have heatsinks on them.
Circulation fan stops when the door gets opened to save heat.
Baked one tray of 2Kg of bullets. set it at 200 Deg C for 10 minutes. Bullets came out very dark.
2 trays of 2KG each same time and temp. Bullets were also dark for both trays.

Going to try more tomorrow, but start at 7 minutes for 2 trays and see how it goes.

Here is the monster baking the 2 trays.

Going to replace the rotary timer with a Digital timer for more accurate timing. Ordered one from Ebay just now.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20160424_172813.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20160424_172813.jpg.html)


Looks like a great unit.
Ausglock, you have just reinforced, and proved it yourself, that a well insulated oven with best air forced circulation, certainly speeds up cooking.
With an excellent internal air mix, (mini cyclone) you will probably find, that alloy was up to temperature in very fast time, so leaving it to 10 minutes, may have been an over cook situation, but aside from getting a darker colour, the coatings should be fine.

[Ausglock]

All wipe fine with zero smash off.

[HI-TEK]

All wipe fine with zero smash off.

From what many have noticed, the extra cook seems to make them more slick, and they size easily.
Some colours are more affected with the heat, but this does not seem to be a problem with end uses.

[666damosydney]

Thanks for the advice Trev your oven looks great.
Funny thing was the projectiles that went through easy where darker and over cooked a little.
Would a very fine wet and dry sand paper with a little thin oil work as i don't have any polish or other stuff then clean with iso prop to remove the oil on the die

[Ausglock]

Yep. Get a bit of wooden dowel or a skewer and slit the end and insert the 2400 grit wet and dry like a flapper.
chuck it in a drill and dip in machine oil and spin it in the die and then patch out.

[Gremlin460]

It's now confirmed, Trev is off his rocker and certifiable.

Anyone who in the 21st century not only owns but proudly displays on the wall a manual push mower is a prime candidate for the long sleeve jacket!!.

[Ausglock]

That is just plain nasty, Grem.
I use it every now and then.
it reminds me to keep the ride-on mower's maintainance up to scratch.

Up early for the ANZAC Service.
Lest we forget.

[666damosydney]

Lest we forget

[Ausglock]

Well... after a few days testing the new coating oven. I gotta say... it is fantastic!!!

Started off only doing 1 tray for 10 minutes as per previous post.
I just did 2 trays, each with 250 135gn Bullets. These weigh 2.3Kg per tray.
Bake was 200Deg C for 7 minutes. both trays were baked fine. Wipe and smash tests passed with flying colours.

Next step is to try 3 trays for the same time and then reduce the time until I get failure of the wipe test.
Them increase time by 10 seconds each time until wipe test passes.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160425_161302.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160425_161302.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160425_161240.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160425_161240.jpg.html)

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-04-26%2008.12.42.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-04-26%2008.12.42.jpg.html)

So.. this oven surpasses everything I have ever done with the Benchtop ovens. No variable heating. No variable timer issues. and perfectly baked bullets. HITEK Joe is pushing me to do Alloy heat up testing. Might have to do it once I het the Digital timer installed.
If you are thinking of starting HITEK coating, go to your local appliance repairer and see if they have a wall oven with faulty electronics. Get it and gut it and convert it like I have. It is easy and cheap to do. You will be glad you did.

SSR and digi timers and temp controllers are cheap on ebay. wiring is easy to do, but get it checked by a qualified electrician. Usually the appliance repairer you got the oven from will do it as he will be intrigued by what you have done and why you have done it.

[ioon44]

I started out with a built in kitchen convection oven from a second hand store for $75.00, I need to start trying two trays.
With a layer of fire bricks on the bottom rack my oven temp recovers to 200 C in about 1 minute.

[slide]

Ausglock, fine piece of work. How many bullets do you go thru in a month or are you one of the commercial guys?

[wlkjr]

I noticed your Zombie Green is about the same color as mine.

[Ausglock]

Slide. Yeah. I do it part time commercially. Both myself and redrockant (on here) are partners in Susan Island Bullets. We do it of an afternoon after work and of a weekend. Have a look for us on facebook if you use it.
My real job is manager of a Australian Hardwood Flooring plant. redrockant is the head nurse in the OR at the local hospital.
wlkjr. this is the Kryptonite Green

[wlkjr]

We don't have an option for Kryptonite Green but it appears to be the same as Zombi.

[Dystaxia]

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/Mobile%20Uploads/20160425_161240.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160425_161240.jpg.html)



I really like your trays, what type of material is it? (The bullets looks great too!)

[Michael J. Spangler]

Shot some 357 tonight. I loaded them months ago and realized I had some spotty coating. I must have mixed up my coating batches and only coated 2 thin coats instead of 3. The full house loads gave some decent leading.

No worries though because chasing them with some 3x coated 38 special loads with the same bullet and the bore was shiny.
No complaints here.
Coated some more 45s this weekend. This stuff works great!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dsa]

Ausglock, I thought all the commercial guys were using larger commercial pizza ovens. Why did you guys choose to use a smaller oven?

[HI-TEK]

We don't have an option for Kryptonite Green but it appears to be the same as Zombi.

wlkjr
In Aus, that colour is Susan Island colour.
There is a simple explanation why there is no Kryptonite Green in the US.
The reason , no one has ordered it.
Until recently, its was only available in liquid/solvent form.
I have been working on a powdered version, and now, I can reproduce in powdered form, almost the same colour as with the liquid version.

[Ausglock]

Ausglock, I thought all the commercial guys were using larger commercial pizza ovens. Why did you guys choose to use a smaller oven?

We are only small time and can't outlay that sort of cash for a pizza oven.
The trays are 1.6mm thick stainless steel perforated plate. 12"x10" with a 3/8 turned up edge.

[wlkjr]

wlkjr
In Aus, that colour is Susan Island colour.
There is a simple explanation why there is no Kryptonite Green in the US.
The reason , no one has ordered it.
Until recently, its was only available in liquid/solvent form.
I have been working on a powdered version, and now, I can reproduce in powdered form, almost the same colour as with the liquid version.
I'm curious as to what colors you do have?

[Kjeksen87]

Does someone know what colour this is? Looks awesome.

167191

[Gremlin460]

Looks like Copper-Red.



Does someone know what colour this is? Looks awesome.

167191

[HI-TEK]

I'm curious as to what colors you do have?

wlkjr,
Colours are
Red copper, Blush Copper, Bronze 500, Red Bronze 502, Brown Bronze 506, Black ,Texas Tea, Red 122, Brick Red, Russian Cherry, Zombie Green, Gunmetal, Old Gold, Sunny Gold, Gold 1035, Kryptonite Green, Blue 818, Violet, Burnt Yellow, Candy Apple, Dark Green, just to name a few.

[wlkjr]

Liquid colors available are

Dark Green
Red Copper
Gold
Black
Brick Red
Black Cherry
And colors available in powder are
Black cherry
Black
Brick Red
Zombi Green
Candy Apple
Bronze 500
Red Copper
Gun Metal
Gold 1035
Old Gold
Black 1035

[Avenger442]

Joe or Donnie
Can I still get the 1035 Gold in liquid and powder?

[HI-TEK]

Joe or Donnie
Can I still get the 1035 Gold in liquid and powder?

Avenger,
I am not 100% sure, but Donnie should have both.
If not, we can send whatever is required, as we are currently preparing another shipment to the US. You will have to contact Donnie and ask.

[Ausglock]

And not forgetting the DDR :bigsmyl2:

[HI-TEK]

And not forgetting the DDR :bigsmyl2:

I did not forget that one, but was careful in exposing it, after you got in trouble for this colour.

[Gremlin460]

Yeah! Trev! you troublemaker!!

[Ausglock]

Me??? Just because there are other nationalities here without an Aussie sense of humour...

I just might have to dig out the DDR sample and mix some. might coat a few 1000 just for fun.

[bfuller14]

Ausglock,
You are funny in any nationality.....(Including RED NECK here in TX)
I get a real kick from your humor.
Please keep us humored in your informative research.

[Avenger442]

Ausglock,
You are funny in any nationality.....(Including RED NECK here in TX)
I get a real kick from your humor.
Please keep us humored in your informative research.

Ausglock and Joe would like it here in the South.

Still working on that 20 pounds of bullets I cast. All that's left are the hollow points for the 45 and 44.

167320 Black 1035 1st coat

167321 Black 1035 2nd coat

167322 Bronze 500 2nd coat

The fan and the PID for the heat are on different power cords. Didn't plug in the fan on the first bake and there was more color variation in the Bronze. I couldn't really tell a difference in the Black. In fact, the Black looked like it had a drab green tint on parts of the bullets in the first coat. Second coat seems to have cleaned that up. Had a very small amount of color on the wipe test with the Black, 1st and 2nd coat, even though it was cooked at the same time as the Bronze same oven, same temp, same length of time. I have had a small amount of color come off with other colors. Bullets shot fine at the range. No leading. Both passed smash test.

[Ausglock]

You will find that a very slight ( imagine "fart in a hurricane" amount) of wipe off will not affect your bullet performance.
It comes from HITEK Joe overloading on the colour component of the coating to give good coverage.

The experimental Blues all give slight wipe off, but shoot fine. He has to dial back the colour loading on these Blues and try again.

[DerekP Houston]

Batch of gold color turned out great today! Didn't weigh it, but it was as many 148gr wc as would fit on a tray. 3 coats and they look gorgeous! The PID temp control really does make a big difference for the hi-tek color to turn out properly.

[Gremlin460]

Australian humor is quite hard to understand, we swear at friends and call enemies Mate. Its all in the tone. Strange I know, but it works.
Avenger442, if you get a little wipe of just add 30 seconds to the timer, some colours I have found I need to time tweak just a fraction. Longer bake only darkens the colour, which with black really is not an issue is it.

[Gremlin460]

Had a guy I know approach me at the range yesterday in a highly excited state. He pulled a bag of nice 9mm casts out of his pocket and showed me. He bought from the USA a casting machine, $2000 worth. Like a balisticast, manual, 2 cav mold, NLG.
He asked for some Hitec so he could coat the casts.
He is a nice guy, but looked deflated slightly when I told him, when you have cast 1000-1500 come see me and THEN we do coating, because honestly 150 cast really is not enough, and until you sort your system out and get familiar with coating, tiny batches are actually harder to do.

He cheered up again, when I said I will coat them WITH him, and show the method that works for me.

So it looks like the circle of coaters grows a little bit more.

[dikman]

Another guy at my club asked if I could spare some powder, as he wanted to try coating some instead of lubing. It worked first time, and he's impressed, no more lubing pistol rounds for him.

[Avenger442]

167396

Who needs grooveless molds. Just cast them big and size out the grooves.�� Some of them look like the soup can molds. Lucky this was the 17 BHN and not the 22 I was casting earlier.

I was was in a hurry when I cast these and didn't get the mold closed good on some of them.
Think i'm going to have to add a coat to this bunch.

[Ausglock]

167396

Who needs grooveless molds. Just cast them big and size out the grooves.�� Some of them look like the soup can molds. Lucky this was the 17 BHN and not the 22 I was casting earlier.

I was was in a hurry when I cast these and didn't get the mold closed good on some of them.
Think i'm going to have to add a coat to this bunch.

Just run a 11mm drill down each cavity. that will fix those pesky grooves.

[PAT303]

I get a slight amount of wipe off with texas tea but last weekend I shot a 100m varmint match with my 6.5x55,my total group size was around 2'' for 45 shots prone,standing and sitting post rest with a CBE 150grn boolit over 22grns of AR2207.I shot 66 rounds all up and the bore was clean afterwards,no lube,lead or powder fouling to be seen,and I haven't fitted my PID controller yet,just cranked the temp up and went for broke. Pat

[Kjeksen87]

Is the brown copper color still availeble? The sites I have seen they are not an option.
Does anyone have a picture of that color? Finished coated bullets?

[ThaDoubleJ]

Tried my first shot at coating today, used old gold. They pass the rub test, pass the fingernail test, and other than the bubbles, they pass the smash test. However, they miserably fail the 'look like a coated boolit' test. I know they weren't dry, as they bubbled within minutes of being placed in the oven. Does that really make them look this bad?

I've also found that my little oven's temp wanders all over the place. Can I go a few degrees cooler and add a little time? I caught it wandering nearly 50 degrees in the last half of the bake time. First half it held within 15 degrees of 390ish.

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc519/ThaDoubleJ/458%20SOCOM/IMG_20160504_215253512_HDR_zpszrigadde.jpg

[HI-TEK]

Tried my first shot at coating today, used old gold. They pass the rub test, pass the fingernail test, and other than the bubbles, they pass the smash test. However, they miserably fail the 'look like a coated boolit' test. I know they weren't dry, as they bubbled within minutes of being placed in the oven. Does that really make them look this bad?

I've also found that my little oven's temp wanders all over the place. Can I go a few degrees cooler and add a little time? I caught it wandering nearly 50 degrees in the last half of the bake time. First half it held within 15 degrees of 390ish.

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc519/ThaDoubleJ/458%20SOCOM/IMG_20160504_215253512_HDR_zpszrigadde.jpg

Interesting finish.
The impression I get is, in two areas of problems,
1. You added far too much coating on first coat, and shook far too long causing that lumpy appearance.
2. You also may have not dried it adequately, and with thick application, the coating would not be dry, despite it seeming to be dry.

Bubbling is directly due to trapped solvent/moisture. This moisture, with heat, lifts coating from alloy, coating bakes OK but is not bonded well at all.
Lumps. trapped in coating after bake is normally due shaking coating for far too long and until coating has become sticky and starts to form sticky lumps. When it is dumped for drying, after alleged drying, and baked, these lumps will not flatten out and remain as finish you have achieved.

[ThaDoubleJ]

Too much coating, check. Shook until sticky, check. Looked dry but bubbled, check.

So is it coat, coat, bake or coat, bake, coat, bake?

These were cast into a cold mold, so they just go back in the pot. Might have some 38s laying around also cast wrong that I can practice again on.

[HI-TEK]

Too much coating, check. Shook until sticky, check. Looked dry but bubbled, check.

So is it coat, coat, bake or coat, bake, coat, bake?

These were cast into a cold mold, so they just go back in the pot. Might have some 38s laying around also cast wrong that I can practice again on.

Right on.
First coat, use only about 6mls (of 20g/100ml mixture) to 250 bullets.
Shake quickly, 10-15 seconds and just enough to coat. The dump onto drying mesh and leave to dry, (dont touch). Depending on ambient conditions this can be from 15-20 minutes to 24 hours or more.
Get a few, and bake them at 200C for 10 minutes. If they cook OK and pass all tests, do the rest.
If they fail, dry further, and may be warm air dry, with hair drier or similar, (not near solvents)
Cook a few more and compare with first few.
If all is OK cook the rest, but dont over fill oven as they wont bake correctly or evenly, and they will take much longer to cook .

[Sgtonory]

What causes some bullets to stick together? Happen when you stop shaking to soon on coating? Also notice some people us 1mil per pound but 3mils per 1KG that is not equal.

[HI-TEK]

What causes some bullets to stick together? Happen when you stop shaking to soon on coating? Also notice some people us 1mil per pound but 3mils per 1KG that is not equal.
Sgtonory,
Sticking together is caused by adding far too much coating, which causes fusion of two or more during bake.
Shaking for not long enough, you simply have coating left in your shake coat container without it coating all projectiles.
Not a problem.
Using different amounts really is up to user. What works, stick to it.
People also use different mix ratios, and what they feel is suitable for the coating system they adopt.
Our general advice on coating with 20g powder 100mls Acetone mixture, is to use 6mls for each coat, to about 250 projectiles.
If you use less or more will greatly depend on users proficiency with coating technique.
General rule of thumb is to use, especially with first coat, the minimum amount just to barely coat.
This avoids drying problems, reduced welding together problems during bake. and reduces failures due to inadequate drying of thickly applied films.

[jeep45238]

Just got my zombie green powder in this week (easy to find any spilled bullets if someone knocks ammo off the bench at a match - it happens). Found a nice convection toaster oven with 2 racks and a 16x16" interior footprint with digital temp control for $40 locally. After that it's just needing acetone (unless low odor mineral spirits work..I doubt it).

Anyway, I didn't see anything in the instructions about having to use a mesh style tray that most people on here are using. Would there be any problems with running the solid bottom trays that most toaster ovens come with?

[Sgtonory]

Sgtonory,
Sticking together is caused by adding far too much coating, which causes fusion of two or more during bake.
Shaking for not long enough, you simply have coating left in your shake coat container without it coating all projectiles.
Not a problem.
Using different amounts really is up to user. What works, stick to it.
People also use different mix ratios, and what they feel is suitable for the coating system they adopt.
Out general advice on coating with 20g powder 100mls Acetone mixture, is to use 6mls for each coat, to about 250 projectiles.
If you use less or more will greatly depend on users proficiency with coating technique.
General rule of thumb is to use, especially with first coat, the minimum amount just to barely coat.
This avoids drying problems, reduced welding together problems during bake. and reduces failures due to inadequate drying of thickly applied films.

Thank you. I almost get zero sticking together. Thanks for the info. Love the coating so far have about 10k coated.

[slide]

Just got my zombie green powder in this week (easy to find any spilled bullets if someone knocks ammo off the bench at a match - it happens). Found a nice convection toaster oven with 2 racks and a 16x16" interior footprint with digital temp control for $40 locally. After that it's just needing acetone (unless low odor mineral spirits work..I doubt it).

Anyway, I didn't see anything in the instructions about having to use a mesh style tray that most people on here are using. Would there be any problems with running the solid bottom trays that most toaster ovens come with?

The reason we use the wire mesh trays is for air circulation. Makes sures all bullets get even heat. It is very important.

[slide]

I was looking around on youtube and found a video that included hi-tek coating. Check it out. Type Bullet Casting Done Right in the search box. Pretty spiffy!

[jeep45238]

Roger, thanks. I snagged some 1/2 inch mesh (smallest locally available) and will be doing two layers, one at a 45 degree angle under the other. With the convection that should help a lot with airflow and heat distribution.

[slide]

Roger, thanks. I snagged some 1/2 inch mesh (smallest locally available) and will be doing two layers, one at a 45 degree angle under the other. With the convection that should help a lot with airflow and heat distribution.

If you have a multi-meter double check your oven temp to make sure it is correct (probably causes more problems than anything else) Don't go by the dial or those little round oven thermometers.You can buy a multi-meter in the automotive section at wal-mart for around twenty bucks. Not my idea,some smart dude on here came up with that one.

[jeep45238]

How would I use a multimeter to check temps? Last I knew they're good for volts, amps, and ohms.

[slide]

You can buy one that will check temperature. It comes with a thermocouple. Thin coated wire that will slide in between the door and door seal. You can check your temp inside with the unit outside.

[Kjeksen87]

Tried my first shot at coating today, used old gold. They pass the rub test, pass the fingernail test, and other than the bubbles, they pass the smash test. However, they miserably fail the 'look like a coated boolit' test. I know they weren't dry, as they bubbled within minutes of being placed in the oven. Does that really make them look this bad?

I've also found that my little oven's temp wanders all over the place. Can I go a few degrees cooler and add a little time? I caught it wandering nearly 50 degrees in the last half of the bake time. First half it held within 15 degrees of 390ish.

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc519/ThaDoubleJ/458%20SOCOM/IMG_20160504_215253512_HDR_zpszrigadde.jpg


Wow, that looks like something that comes out the nose, or something with a terrible disease lol!
Keep on trying. Hi-Tek is easy once you have found out what workes with your system and your bullets will be beautiful
when you get the hang of it!

[jeep45238]

You can buy one that will check temperature. It comes with a thermocouple. Thin coated wire that will slide in between the door and door seal. You can check your temp inside with the unit outside.

i snagged my wife's cooking thermometer, it's a nice one with a thermocouple and will read up to 393F. I set mine for 375 and it held steady at 372-373, so I'm confident in it's ability to hold temp.

I already have 2 multimeters, so if there's a simple way to rig a thermocouple to existing ones and measure resistance or voltage for a given temp, I'd rig it up and keep it next to the oven.

[slide]

Make sure that your wife does not get that thermometer back,Once it is exposed to the fumes of curing hi-tek it will not be fit for food preparation. Go buy her a new one.

[jeep45238]

This was in a brand new unused oven, nothing in it, so no worries. Thanks for the heads up just in case though!

[wlkjr]

Just got my zombie green powder in this week (easy to find any spilled bullets if someone knocks ammo off the bench at a match - it happens). Found a nice convection toaster oven with 2 racks and a 16x16" interior footprint with digital temp control for $40 locally. After that it's just needing acetone (unless low odor mineral spirits work..I doubt it).


Anyway, I didn't see anything in the instructions about having to use a mesh style tray that most people on here are using. Would there be any problems with running the solid bottom trays that most toaster ovens come with?
I definitely would not use mineral spirits. It is not the same chemical as acetone. Have not tried the solid bottom tray that came with my oven, but I found some 1/4" hardware cloth that I made some 11x15" trays that work great. I also use them when I shake the coating on and pour the boolits out. I stack the trays crossways of each other and use a fan blowing them. So far I can bake in about 15 minutes after coating.
I have not used the gold powder, but have used the Zombi Green and Candy Apple Red. Very light coats seem to be what works best for me. I squirt it out of a clear condiment bottle that costs less than a dollar. I put 2 table spoons of powder to 3.5 oz of acetone and that is the best ratio I've used.
The gold boolit above looks to me like too much powder in the mix. I shake in a plastic container with a top and do it for about 20 seconds with the top on and about 10 more after I remove it and quickly pour into the tray. The great thing about this coating is if you screw it up you can recycle the lead and only lose a little powder.

[Ausglock]

Jesus!!!!!!
I have never seen anything like that!!

I did come close by dipping the bullet in acetone and sprinkling powder over it, But never like that.

I am amazed........over and out.

[jeep45238]

Working on my first batches right now. Have the oven at the upper limits (400), and got a light tan, so temp is too high. Dropped it to 375 for subsequent coats, we'll see where that winds up color wise.

the nice thing about cast boolits is being able to recycle your lessons learned!

[jeep45238]

My first batch:
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s127/jeep45238/Range%20Time/Reloading/AB22CDBD-2FB9-4B91-8EAE-8488FC95C9DA_zpshzgmp32x.jpg (http://s151.photobucket.com/user/jeep45238/media/Range%20Time/Reloading/AB22CDBD-2FB9-4B91-8EAE-8488FC95C9DA_zpshzgmp32x.jpg.html)


Not exactly the green it was supposed to be:
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s127/jeep45238/Range%20Time/Reloading/0A3241FF-5F65-486E-8735-4AFE009FFB2A_zpswsljamhx.jpg (http://s151.photobucket.com/user/jeep45238/media/Range%20Time/Reloading/0A3241FF-5F65-486E-8735-4AFE009FFB2A_zpswsljamhx.jpg.html)


But what the hey, keep pushing and learn. To verify good bonding there's two tests that need to be performed. The first is on the initial coat by rubbing it in acetone for 30 seconds. If nothing comes off, push on. The next is the fun one- smash it with a hammer and look for separation or flaking of the coating. Mine passed both with flying colors, so I loaded up 100 of them for the kicks. Much, much smoother to run these than the same bullets using liquid alox tumble lube.


An unexpected side effect I hadn't thought of was more consistent ammo. Since the seating and crimp dies aren't getting exposed to gummy bullets they can perform their jobs more consistently. And more consistent they were - I typically have a 10-15% rejection rate on the case gauge for the tumble lube. I had 1% on this batch and touched nothing in the press but the handle- no adjustments period.


Not bad at all for the investment. Tomorrow's the acid test at the range with them. I don't anticipate problems, but if I do it's likely because I was baking them at 400F, which is the upper end of the limit. According to the instructions if the bullets start to turn tan or brown after baking, the temp was too high or they baked for too long. I'm okay with having a different color as long as I get the same performance.

[Kjeksen87]

Uhm... Is that 2 coats? Looks to me it is one coat, or too little Hi-tek used to get good coverage. My experience is that colour itself does not matter for performance. But do some testing with your setup and you will get the colour you bought. Also good tip from Ausglock is to measure the temp on a bullet in addition of the compartment area to verify that you are indeed over 180c for atleast 3 min. That will also show you if you are waaaay over for a longer time period (dark colour)

[jeep45238]

That was one, I did 3 total

[Kjeksen87]

3 should do the job and then some. Many do only 2 :)

[jeep45238]

Good to know! I took the directions regarding really thin coats, and more coats as needed for better results to heart. Until I get them to come out the color they're supposed to I'll color within ththe lines before I start experimenting with how many coats. If I can get two coats to do it I'll be cranking these out like nobody's business.

Range test this afternoon, looking forward to it. If all goes well I'll be remelting the 2k or so of tumble lubed bullets I have. Hopefully my leading will go away with this, since it got a bit better with bigger diameters (using .358-.359 in a .357 bore). If not, I'm not married to this mold, I've since learned the hit/miss of Lee micro grooves.

[Kjeksen87]

I have shot bullets only .0005 over bore dim. With no leading. The Clue is as with all lead bullets match your pressure to BHN to obtain bullet "deformation" and good obturation. 6ml coating pr 2kg of bullets works like a charm.

[Rompin Ruger]

I've posted back a ways on my 270-SAA coated in red Copper 45 cal's with li'l gun..

.now would I be hijacking the thread to ask if anyone has some pet loads for a Glock 40SW Mdl 22 3rd gen, with 165 gr. Bayou red copper coated bullets and Power Pistol powder? Manuals say 6.6 to start up to 7.4 with that bullet in J-word...

Got the 4 die set in route and bulge buster but first go will be with virgin Starline 40 brass.

Thanks.

[Avenger442]

I had a chance to take my wife to the range for her second practice session with her SW Airlight 38. She's not bad for the second time out. Since I now have enough empty brass she will be shooting Hi Tek Bronze 500 next time.

I had a couple of mags of the Hi Tek Gun Metal Grey hollow points in 45 auto that were good at 15 yards. I found out I'm not good at 25 yards. Off hand I placed about 5 of the 7 on the 12 X 12 target. Oh well, will get better with practice.

You guys reminded me about what Joe told me about a year ago about maintaining 180 C for 3 minutes. If I remember correctly he also told me about the same time that you could cook 200C +/- 10C for the cook temp as long as they pass the tests. Most of us are using convection ovens that are intended to cook food not lead.

Not trying to start a discussion but, I disagree with the idea that you shouldn't use the round cooking thermometers. Will agree that the thermocouple might be more accurate but only in the spot where the probe is located. But, after all we are not trying to maintain to the tenth of a degree. I've been using cooking thermometers since the second set of bullets I baked. Before I installed the PID and had to watch and adjust temps. I usually cook two trays of bullets at once so I place one in each tray with probe in contact with several of the bullets. Tells me the temp in each tray which is usually several degrees different. Different heat in different parts of the oven. My PID probe is set in the middle back of the oven with the PID set on 380 F. That maintains my round thermometers in the trays about 390-400 F. Still using the first cooking thermometer I bought and have had no problems.

Sometimes I think we are making this coating process way more complicated than it needs to be. But I guess we are trying to get a hard fast set of things that work for everyone to start with. The trouble is we don't know what the circumstances are with each user. I have found the cook temp and time are particularly forgiving (plus degrees have not found a fail temp minus about 20 F) as long as it passes the smash wipe. That is unless you just got to have that certain shade of green or red. And you will have to experiment with your set up to get it. I've also found the coating of the bullets before bake forgiving to a point. You can coat in a covered container which gives you a little more tumble time, acetone or MEK flashes off slower, or uncovered. After a few times of squirting the mix in the container you can guesstimate. That having been said. Follow Joe and Ausglocks suggestions for a starting point. The most unforgiving thing I have found is that first coat. It must not be thick and it must be completely dry.

I've I have shot thousands of rifle and pistol Hi Tek and coated in the 10s of thousands now ( most of them still sitting in their respective plastic jars waiting) and have had only two fails. One when I coated too thick. One where I got some leading at the end of my rifle barrel when I tried to use 12 BHN where I should have been using 17. I'm not especially particular about the color (until Joe gets me some Orange and Blue). My Gold 1035 can be gold or slightly darker depending on if I forget to turn the fan in my oven on or not. This stuff is great. I get rifle groups that match or surpass the ammo I was using before. Almost as good as the Federal gold match in my 223 and 308. It is the only lube I have used in about three years of casting and shooting lead. I know there are other things that work but I would recommend Hi Tek to anyone and have.

Has anyone used it in the big bore guns 375 H&H or maybe 480 Ruger?

[Kjeksen87]

Sometimes I think we are making this coating process way more complicated than it needs to be..

I think you are right.

[slide]

100% agreed.

[slide]

jeep45238, You may already do this. You can put your bullets in your baking tray and set it on top of your oven for about 10 to 15 minutes. This will preheat your bullets and it shouldn't take as long to get up to temp. I think Ausglock said he used a hair dryer for a few minutes. With that new terminator oven he built probably doesn't need to do it anymore.

[jeep45238]

You're correct, I do that already. I'm messing with temps and times right now (and cleaning up a Lee sizing die, nasty nick inside and too small). I'm really liking this stuff so far. Should find out how it shoots in about an hour.

[DerekP Houston]

Ha, the tray on top of the oven is my trick for multiple batches too. This stuff is awesome when you have a bunch of bullets that need coating quick!

[Ausglock]

I've posted back a ways on my 270-SAA coated in red Copper 45 cal's with li'l gun..

.now would I be hijacking the thread to ask if anyone has some pet loads for a Glock 40SW Mdl 22 3rd gen, with 165 gr. Bayou red copper coated bullets and Power Pistol powder? Manuals say 6.6 to start up to 7.4 with that bullet in J-word...

Got the 4 die set in route and bulge buster but first go will be with virgin Starline 40 brass.

Thanks.

Glock35 40S&W
175gn FP over 6.0gn Power Pistol. Avg Vel 1013fps 177 Power factor

[jeep45238]

Tomorrow's the acid test at the range with them.

Well the coating was a success, but I've had it with this bullet and mold. I've sized from .356-.359, various charges, various seating depths, various levels of crimp (including just enough to touch the case/reduce the bell), various types of lubricants, mutiple coats of lubricants, and my accuracy is still out the door. First round fired today was a keyhold out of a squeeky clean barrel with a bullet .002 larger than bore http://ohioccwforums.org/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif

It seems the microgroove bullets either work or don't, no inbetween, so I'll be moving on to greener pastures once I find a bullet my pistols like. Swapping all I can right now to find something that works.

[slide]

Some love the microgroove bullets and some hate them. In my 38 special revolvers I shoot them as they drop out of the mold. They are generally around .360. Haven't tried it in any other calibers yet.

[jeep45238]

I do get better results when shooting them as cast- but the below pic is how much my beretta loves this particular boolit. Maybe if I had a smaller bore it would do better, but oh well. Part of the hobby!



http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s127/jeep45238/Range%20Time/Reloading/2A7B3E9A-27C6-4064-B9AC-FF4CCFAC3930_zpsjgqe3j6k.jpg (http://s151.photobucket.com/user/jeep45238/media/Range%20Time/Reloading/2A7B3E9A-27C6-4064-B9AC-FF4CCFAC3930_zpsjgqe3j6k.jpg.html)

[slide]

Figuring all this out is fun to me. Some guys go nuts and get highly aggravated. I got a shooting buddy that will go ballistic unless everything goes the way he thinks it should. I realize everybody is different but if he makes a bad shot at our monthly matches it ruins his whole performance. Sad, because he is a pretty good hand with a pistol or revolver.

[jeep45238]

I enjoy the trouble shooting aspect of things. I tend to apply the scientific method the best I can to testing my loads, but when the base boolit won't cooperate then all the other variables applied go out the window. I didn't have these issues with .45acp and 200SWC microgroves, but we're also talking a dramatic difference between velocities, diameters, and pressures. I'll keep playing with the coating amounts to see if I'm just not applying enough to withstand what I'm asking of the boolit as that's my last vairable, but all signs are pointing to this boolit design not working out well for the 92G or P225. Thankfully there's other options out there, I just need to try them :-)

[Gremlin460]

There is a fair bit of "wriggle room" in coating with Hitek, EXCEPT for one area.

The Drying of the first thin coat is a must, no such thing as Over dried.


I have coated and dried first coater and stored them for 3 weeks before baking. No issues. But baking before dry from skin to the lead surface WILL fail each and every time.


The fact that +/- in temp by a few deg, or time. or tumble still allows you a positive result is one of the main things that makes this a viable home coating.
Every batch you make will be slightly different but will still work. We all win.

To reproduce the exact temp/time/coat et al, is for the most part beyond us with the equipment we use. If we had industrial standard equipment then consistence would be possible.

Lucky for us, THAT much regulation is not required, due to the "wriggle room" that Joe has built into the coating and procedure.

Have fun, coat lots, shoot em all!!!

[Ausglock]

I had poor results with all the micro groove TL Lee bullets.
Get a nice Accurate Molds 135gn bullet with no lube groove and a nice big bevel base.
His 35-135Z is a great bullet. works fine in 9mm and 38 Super.
Tom makes bloody great molds.

[Ausglock]

I forgot to mention.... Do not use the Lee Carbide factory crimp die on your 40 cal loads.
It sizes the bullet too small and causes severe leading and poor accuracy. Use the dillon crimper or break the carbide sizer ring out of the die first.

[Rompin Ruger]

I forgot to mention.... Do not use the Lee Carbide factory crimp die on your 40 cal loads.
It sizes the bullet too small and causes severe leading and poor accuracy. Use the dillon crimper or break the carbide sizer ring out of the die first.

Oh, Crud...I JUST Ordered that 4 die set (with Lee FCD) from Amazon and should be here shortly...doh! :( The bulge buster die uses the Lee FCD too I believe I read? just different guts?

I've seen your shop in vids you posted back a year or so ago... and other project you've done...YOU might have the expertise to break out the carbide ring, but not moi!

[jeep45238]

Success (partial!)
The good news is the batch I was experimenting with this morning went supurb through the Sig, and marginal (albiet better) on the Beretta. I have what appears to be fouling in the beretta and none in the sig, which has a smaller bore. I've been progressively adding more and more coating with the swirls to find the sweet spot, and how many bullets to swirl at a time, etc., and compared to last night's batch these are much closer to the color they are supposed to be. I think my biggest issue has been too little hitek with each coat.

Anyway, the fouling didn't look like standard powder fouling, but it did clean right up so that means it's not lead. I've been loading at the bottom of the load spectrum using water dropped wheel weights, so I upped the charge to 4.2 (spec is 3.9-4.4). I'm hoping that this will flatten the base of the bullet upon exiting the case and create a better seal, which would mean full rifling engagement and no fouling. We'll see another day.

Rompin, try doing it without the FCD and see how things fare. Then set up the die if needed so it barely kisses the cartridge and see how that impacts things. Worst case look at a standard taper crimp die and do your seating on a seperate die, and you'll be fine.

[Ausglock]

Oh, Crud...I JUST Ordered that 4 die set (with Lee FCD) from Amazon and should be here shortly...doh! :( The bulge buster die uses the Lee FCD too I believe I read? just different guts?

I've seen your shop in vids you posted back a year or so ago... and other project you've done...YOU might have the expertise to break out the carbide ring, but not moi!

Yep. the FCD gets the guts removed and used for the bulge buster. The carbide ring is easy to get out. just hit it with a pin punch and a hammer. it will shatter.

[Rompin Ruger]

Ummm...but, but... LOL :o I didn't even GET the 4 die kit yet and you want me to do what??? SEnt you PM... seems the whole Bulge buster set up won't work without that carbide ring in the FCD... :0

[Ausglock]

PM sent..

[Rompin Ruger]

Thanks, Trev. Got it... now to find the "normal taper crimp die"... Doh!

[Gremlin460]

Success (partial!)
The good news is the batch I was experimenting with this morning went supurb through the Sig, and marginal (albiet better) on the Beretta. I have what appears to be fouling in the beretta and none in the sig, which has a smaller bore.
Anyway, the fouling didn't look like standard powder fouling, but it did clean right up so that means it's not lead. I've been loading at the bottom of the load spectrum using water dropped wheel weights, so I upped the charge to 4.2 (spec is 3.9-4.2). I'm hoping that this will flatten the base of the bullet upon exiting the case and create a better seal, which would mean full rifling engagement and no fouling. We'll see another day.


I size 358 for the beretta, and it comes out crystal clean, and size 356 for the wifes 1911 S&W.

[Ausglock]

I have 3 people in my club with Berettas and they all use .358 for their 9mm reloads. anything smaller, leads and has **** accuracy.

[666damosydney]

Got to test my 105 swc cast with 3 light coats of zombie green powdered version havnt checked the barrel but got great acuracy shot from 25 meters standing 2.7-2.8g As30n sized to .356 from my sti 9mm edge with 6 pound recoil spring and shock buff.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/885g8slqguyl2bc/20160507_104838.jpg?dl=0

[Ausglock]

good job, Damo.

[666damosydney]

good job, Damo.
Thanks trev shame i cant shoot like that more consistantly lol.

[jeep45238]

I have 3 people in my club with Berettas and they all use .358 for their 9mm reloads. anything smaller, leads and has **** accuracy.

Unfortuantely most of mine are smaller than that in the microgroves, but the bottom most portion varies from .359 to .362 (*** Lee). A nice gentleman is sending me some other samples that range from .358-.360. Those 105 SWC from the STI are bullets I have my eyes on hopefully working to stretch out my lead supply a bit more, and man do they leave some clean holes!

[666damosydney]

Unfortuantely most of mine are smaller than that in the microgroves, but the bottom most portion varies from .359 to .362 (*** Lee). A nice gentleman is sending me some other samples that range from .358-.360. Those 105 SWC from the STI are bullets I have my eyes on hopefully working to stretch out my lead supply a bit more, and man do they leave some clean holes!

Jeep i got a 2nd 105swc mold because they are so good my mate has used them in his semis and revolvers sized 358 and 356 with great accuracy so if your alloy is right they will perform a worth while investment.

[gunoil]

buldge busting set-up, ausglock: Harborfreight 1 ton arbor press.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/4C38FFA8-2D6A-4A6D-869B-ADC8AFB63F56_zpsmg8fobeh.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/4C38FFA8-2D6A-4A6D-869B-ADC8AFB63F56_zpsmg8fobeh.jpg.html)

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/94937606-2804-4906-AFE5-58D552B4FF26_zpsxxapnf72.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/94937606-2804-4906-AFE5-58D552B4FF26_zpsxxapnf72.jpg.html)

This table leg is bolted in concrete with 1/2" bolt and a red head. Took forever to drill concrete. I did it for loadmaster to the right of this arbor press.

Custom punches and l can gas check too with this arbor.



__________________
velosRus.com

[Ausglock]

Nice....

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=gunoil;3642673]buldge busting set-up, ausglock: Harborfreight 1 ton arbor press.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/4C38FFA8-2D6A-4A6D-869B-ADC8AFB63F56_zpsmg8fobeh.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/4C38FFA8-2D6A-4A6D-869B-ADC8AFB63F56_zpsmg8fobeh.jpg.html)

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/94937606-2804-4906-AFE5-58D552B4FF26_zpsxxapnf72.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/94937606-2804-4906-AFE5-58D552B4FF26_zpsxxapnf72.jpg.html)

This table leg is bolted in concrete with 1/2" bolt and a red head. Took forever to drill concrete. I did it for loadmaster to the right of this arbor press.

Custom punches and l can gas check too with this arbor.



__________________
Great piece of machinery. I could put that on a display cabinet at my place. It would be a great conversation starter...lol...lol

[Rompin Ruger]

HOly Socks, Batman!!! You boys are some SERIOUS shootin sonsofguns! I don't even belong in this forum! [smilie=b:

[Avenger442]

HOly Socks, Batman!!! You boys are some SERIOUS shootin sonsofguns! I don't even belong in this forum! [smilie=b:


I think anyone with Ruger belongs here.

Went to the range yesterday with Hi Tek Gold 1035 coated 45s. These were coated back in 2014. Either these loads are better or my shooting is improving at 25 yards. The Ruger 1911 was putting them all in the 8 circle on the target.

This is a public range. Upkeep is paid for through the sale of hunting and fishing license. The Game Warden came by yesterday and wanted to see mine. I told him I hadn't bought a new one so he took my drivers license and was about to write me a ticket and ask me to leave. He had already started writing when I remembered that I was 65 and didn't have to have a license. I think it aggravated the officer somewhat. Thanked him packed up my stuff anyway and left. I only had about four rounds left so I had seen what they would do.

[Rompin Ruger]

Great story, Avenger. I just meant some of these boys go at it like it's the Holy Grail!

I posted a long time ago some pics of groups I got with the 45 Colt in a 7.5" NMBH...270 SAA RCBS bullets coated in red copper but I might have left them in a touch too long as they're more "gold" then red. Donnie M. told me not to worry it as it passed the tests...

I now learn I need a totally DIFFERENT type of STANDARD Crimp die for my 40 Glock, so another delay... but soon I'll be having shoulder surgery and not shooting (lest I learn to shoot one handed off hand leftie, being right handed, that might not prove too successful) till things settle in after rehab... :0

Love your tag line too, Avenger!

NOW that Possum Cop gotta explain why he had to tear up a ticket...LOL...Probably a 6 page report!

[Corral]

I make my first batch yesterday with candy apple red powdered stuff and the look is great and pass the wipe test but flake a little bit on smash test and i can scrape it with fingernail

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p505/corral43/photo%20boulet%20003_zps1mrcpg7p.jpg (http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/corral43/media/photo%20boulet%20003_zps1mrcpg7p.jpg.html)

[Ausglock]

Looks OK....but.... try to let air dry longer or warm with a hair dryer before baking. looks over baked to me.
Check you temp.

[Avenger442]

Great story, Avenger. I just meant some of these boys go at it like it's the Holy Grail!

I posted a long time ago some pics of groups I got with the 45 Colt in a 7.5" NMBH...270 SAA RCBS bullets coated in red copper but I might have left them in a touch too long as they're more "gold" then red. Donnie M. told me not to worry it as it passed the tests...

I now learn I need a totally DIFFERENT type of STANDARD Crimp die for my 40 Glock, so another delay... but soon I'll be having shoulder surgery and not shooting (lest I learn to shoot one handed off hand leftie, being right handed, that might not prove too successful) till things settle in after rehab... :0

Love your tag line too, Avenger!

NOW that Possum Cop gotta explain why he had to tear up a ticket...LOL...Probably a 6 page report!




Sorry to hear about the shoulder. I have been told by those that teach self defense that it is worth it to learn to shoot with your left hand. I'm still trying to learn the right.

Avenger is actually an old collector car I have (one of my too many hobbies). It is an Avenger GT 12 with a super charged Corvair motor. It is languishing in the basement ready to be put back together. For you guys that don't remember the Avenger.
168094 I'll bet it would look cool coated in Ausglocks favorite Hi-Tek red color. Wonder how I would bake it on the fiberglass? :grin:
The 442 is a 1970 Olds 442 post car also still sitting in the basement waiting. Both were drivers in the past. The 442 was wild to drive but the 455 motor drank the gas. Drunk driver caved the front end.

Coated some hollow points with Black 1035 yesterday. Also had a chance to check the barrel of the 45. No lead after about 100 rounds of Hi-Tek.

Building target stand today. Also a result of meeting with the Game Warden. It seems that my usual target stand at 25 yards on the 50 yard range was just not tall enough for him. 25 yard range is a mud hole. According to Warden, because of guys like me. Oh well, public range and free.

Taking the granddaughters tomorrow to visit their Great grandmother and to that range to practice. One likes to shoot the 45 and 44 Mag. With Hi-Tek of course. Going to make sure and buy the two older ones fishing license before we go.

[HI-TEK]

Going to make sure and buy the two older ones fishing license before we go.[/QUOTE]


Avenger,
We have a great scam here with fishing licences. We have to get one, and our politicians/greens and environmentalists, then close areas as national parks and protected reserve areas, and we cant fish there.

[Avenger442]

Going to make sure and buy the two older ones fishing license before we go.


Avenger,
We have a great scam here with fishing licences. We have to get one, and our politicians/greens and environmentalists, then close areas as national parks and protected reserve areas, and we cant fish there.[/QUOTE]


Joe
I know what you mean. Here in the US our government was created mainly to protect the people not regulate every step they take. And we are being immorally regulated into extension. That is why you see so many preppers preparing to go it on their own when it all falls apart here.

As much as I love the US and particularly Alabama I might have to leave one day, or convince our state to separate itself from the US again. Trouble is, I don't know of a place on earth I would go. So will probably end up staying here and fighting it out.

By the way Joe, my granddaughter loved shooting the Gold 1035 coated 45 autos. She is the oldest and very good with a gun. Actually they all three are pretty good. The middle one loves to fish. Some guy is going to be lucky one day to have a wife that likes to do stuff outdoors.

Do you fish Joe? If so are your lead weights coated with Hi-Tek?:kidding:

[Ausglock]

The only way I fish is with 1/2 stick of Gelly.......BOOOOMM... pick up fish... quick and easy.

[Gremlin460]

Give a man a Fish... You feed him for a day.
Give a man a poisonous Fish.... You feed him for Life.


Isn't logic wonderful?

[666damosydney]

Give a man a Fish... You feed him for a day.
Give a man a poisonous Fish.... You feed him for Life.


Isn't logic wonderful?


Thanks for your help and all the great advice on coating Mike i will give you an update once every thing is mounted and running cant wait to cast and coat more projectiles

[Gremlin460]

Thanks for your help and all the great advice on coating Mike i will give you an update once every thing is mounted and running cant wait to cast and coat more projectiles

NP Damo ,Nice to put a face to the name, the 356 Die polished up better than I thought it would, you should have no problems using it.
Have fun with the AS/2 it will make sizing easier as others can confirm.

[666damosydney]

NP Damo ,Nice to put a face to the name, the 356 Die polished up better than I thought it would, you should have no problems using it.
Have fun with the AS/2 it will make sizing easier as others can confirm.

Your a bloody legend Mike above and beyond true blue aussie mate.

[Ausglock]

Watch him, Damo..
He will pick the gold out of your teeth.

Joe has a bloody huge box of new samples due this week.
Be interesting to see if the improved blues work this time.
New Blacks as well.. Blacker than a Black Cat's ****....

[666damosydney]

Watch him, Damo..
He will pick the gold out of your teeth.

Joe has a bloody huge box of new samples due this week.
Be interesting to see if the improved blues work this time.
New Blacks as well.. Blacker than a Black Cat's ****....

Lucky i got no teeth for the gold lol.
I hope the black and blues work i still got 2 x 480g left of zombie and candy apple red so i will be a while.

[ioon44]

Looks OK....but.... try to let air dry longer or warm with a hair dryer before baking. looks over baked to me.
Check you temp.


Is there any problems to over baking than the color being darker? Corrals pics are about how my Candy Apple Red looks.

Now that warm weather is here I dry in full sunshine (55 to 60 deg C) for about 2 hours before baking at 215 deg C for 12 min, bullets pass the test and shoot great.

[Rompin Ruger]

These gents are way above any input I could offer, but I use the Red Copper on 45 colt slugs.. for whatever reason, they come out a bit more "gold-ish" color but Donnie said since they pass all tests, not to fret it.

Last I did was at my other location up North. I was drying on screen trays I made setting on top my neighbors constantly running A/C unit... nice dry, hot air...:) Worked! Do one tray in convection oven, let other sit on A/C unit.. then switch and recoat 1st batch and start over... They passed the scratch and smash test, but I might have had my alloy a bit hard as I couldn't fully smash them...least not with my set up...

Drying was emphasized to me as well... and that AC unit trick seemed to work nicely... here, I'd have to turn mine on and run to other end of house from where I'd be working, but it's still an option...once I get back into casting and coating!

[Avenger442]

Is there any problems to over baking than the color being darker? Corrals pics are about how my Candy Apple Red looks.

Now that warm weather is here I dry in full sunshine (55 to 60 deg C) for about 2 hours before baking at 215 deg C for 12 min, bullets pass the test and shoot great.


Short answer to question of over cooking is no there is no disadvantage other than color. I know it's a pain to read 7000+ post (wish there were a way to find certain subjects) but it has been discussed several times on this blog and as to performance there is no disadvantage.

I asked Joe about it last year, I think it was, when I was getting some darker colors on the Gold 1035 liquid. As I remember Joe said that some have suggested that over cooking might have some advantages. So some times I intentionally cook at higher temps. I didn't find any great advantage as to performance in my alloy. I did try an experiment of sorts. My normal casting lead is 11-12 BHN. When I cast for my .308 I usually use 16-17 BHN lead with a gas check. This gives me 1 1/2 " groups at 100 yards. I was wondering if I over cooked the coating, made it harder, if I could get away without the gas check. I coated some 3 coats and baked the coating till it was a dark brown. From memory 450F for about 15 minutes. Loaded them up and went to the range. They shot all over the berm behind the target. When I got home I checked the barrel and there was lead in the rifling about one inch down the barrel. These were, again from memory, just a couple of grains short of max loads and the only time I have had leading with Hi Tek. I thought that I had answered my question until later I went back and checked the BHN on the bullets. They had been cast out of COWW + 2% tin. The BHN was checking about 12 so my question wasn't answered. I have not revisited this but thought some day I might add gas checks to the 12 BHN over cooked bullets and maybe cast some of my 16-17 BHN without gas checks and over cook the coating to see what happened. Some how I got distracted over into shooting hand guns with Hi Tek. I think it was that 9mm discussion we had some time back.

[Ausglock]

over baking only darkens the colour, and doesn't hurt anything else.
I have some 9mm 124Rn that were in the base of my oven during 6 months of baking. they were coated with candy apple and Kryptonite green. they all went dark brown. loaded and fired perfectly.

[Beau Cassidy]

First time shooting some of my coated bullets. Everything looked good. 2 coats baked 10 minutes per coat. Felt confident so I loaded about 125 .357 sig bullets using the accurate 35-125Y bullet. Sized .357 diameter. I put them downrange fairly quickly. I wasn't shooting for accuracy- just a test of the coating. I have a little over 150 lbs of these bullets I cast over the last few weekends and want to make sure everything is where I want it before coating and cooking bullets. I smelled the plastic/chemical smell with each string. Wasn't sure if it was the Longshot powder or not but am fairly certain it was the coating so my guess is it isn't cooked enough. I also got a tiny bit of streaking the last 25% of the barrel with some lead on the muzzle. I figure that may be because the coating isn't cooked enough or it needs a third coat. I weighed out the bullets and measured the HiTec as per the instructions. I haven't had the chance to clean the barrel yet but other than the little bit of lead I think it was a moderately successful test for the first time using HiTec. Might try cooking 11 minutes per coat next time. Might even try 3 coats.

[slide]

Sounds like you are on the right track. Couple more minutes baking may do the trick. How long did you allow the bullets to dry before baking? When I went to twelve minute bakes it made all the difference. Each oven and situation is different. Good Luck!

[Beau Cassidy]

I let this batch dry a day or two after the first coating. After the second coating- maybe an hr. The second coating was applied while they were still pretty warm from the first cook. I have found that heating the bullets up by placing them on the top of the oven definitely does make a difference in how the coating goes on.

[Ausglock]

Nw that it is getting colder down here in OZ, I have a small fan heater ($10) lying down above the tray of bullets, blowing warm air over them. this is enough to prepare them for baking after 10 minutes.

[220]

Loaded 50 45/70 last night, will be interesting to see how these go. 3 coats copper but then run through the lube sizer and Lyman BPG applied as they have been loaded with BP.

[gunoil]

Nw that it is getting colder down here in OZ, I have a small fan heater ($10) lying down above the tray of bullets, blowing warm air over them. this is enough to prepare them for baking after 10 minutes.

when l get lil more money , gonna come dwn & hang out with ya. You'll be tickled to death.

[HI-TEK]

when l get lil more money , gonna come dwn & hang out with ya. You'll be tickled to death.

It would be great to see you. Have you been down under before?

[gunoil]

It would be great to see you. Have you been down under before?

Wanta try some d.u. whiskey! Had a close friend that stayed d.u. long time. Mom & dad went, they loved it. We had putt-putt golf courses there 60's 70's. May still be a few there. Uncle died, dads 90. I never got to go. Maybe next 6 years/my plan. I can remember the girl boy rational, much girls, not many boys!!! Dont know how it is now.

brevity&misspelling rampant
______________________
velosRus.com

[Mozz]

Quick question guys, i have some softish lead bullets, 3% antimony and a little over sized, I am thinking of sizing after the first bake. Would the second and third coat and bake take?

Currently when i size after the 3rd bake some bullets are scrape so much you can see the lead. Just thinking they may be too smooth for the coating to bond?

[Ausglock]

I'd say that if the coating is coming off after 3 coats, you alloy is far too soft or you have a very rough sizer die.

[Avenger442]

I have coated 8 BHN with three coats and sized after last coat. Just saying probably need to look at the sizing die first. I had to polish my Lee dies, some of them twice, to keep them from pulling the coating off. Just finished a batch of 44s that is 8 BHN with three coats that had no problem with pulling the coating off. Sizing after first bake is what I normally do.

[Gremlin460]

Quick question guys, i have some softish lead bullets, 3% antimony and a little over sized, I am thinking of sizing after the first bake. Would the second and third coat and bake take?

Currently when i size after the 3rd bake some bullets are scrape so much you can see the lead. Just thinking they may be too smooth for the coating to bond?

I always size after first bake, irrespective of how many future coats it may receive.
All casts are sized at .358 in a highly polished Lee die.
They are then recoated and sorted into boxes of 4000 when baked.
Just before loading I will resize from these boxes either to .356 for the 1911 my wife shoots, or .358 for my Beretta, redoing it at .358 just "smooths out the second coating" rather than does any sizing at all.
99% of my casts are only coated twice, and are all cast out of 94/2/4 lead/tin/antim. mix @ 13/14BHN

[Mozz]

I always size after first bake, irrespective of how many future coats it may receive.
All casts are sized at .358 in a highly polished Lee die.
They are then recoated and sorted into boxes of 4000 when baked.
Just before loading I will resize from these boxes either to .356 for the 1911 my wife shoots, or .358 for my Beretta, redoing it at .358 just "smooths out the second coating" rather than does any sizing at all.
99% of my casts are only coated twice, and are all cast out of 94/2/4 lead/tin/antim. mix @ 13/14BHN

Thanks Guys sounds like the die needs polishing then, next question, how do I polish it?

Mozz

[Ausglock]

youtube has a few vids of how to do it.

[Mozz]

youtube has a few vids of how to do it.

Thanks Trevor, I have had a quick look and will update you guys.

D

[Avenger442]

Thanks Guys sounds like the die needs polishing then, next question, how do I polish it?

Mozz


169200 What I use. These from Amazon ebay or local hardware. A Dremel tool. A good metal polishing compound.

[220]

Well my HiTek and black powder experiment seemed to work. Obviously I had to lube them as well to keep fouling soft but no sign of any lead which I usually get with just lube.
Only fired 50 for the weekend and didn't really do any accuracy testing apart from one group at 100m, 4 shots into around 2" with the first shot from a clean barrel printing about 3" higher. Really should have fired a couple of foulers first to get a better representation but happy enough with the results.

[Phantom30]

Is there a merit badge for reading thru this entire thread, I suspended on page 61, there are 7201 posts in this thing, how do you search inside to find key things like are there any issues with Zombie Green or at high velocities or should you be using one of the metallic

[Rompin Ruger]

PHantom,

I started 2 yrs ago with this stuff and did read what then constituted teh whole thing...one reason it is so large is likely that folks like yourself are overwhelmed with it so many of the same questions get rehashed over to avoid trying to sift thru the morass of data contained herein.

No website can have all the bells and whistles, but I think I read not long ago that there isn't a useable search feature within a particular thread... if that helps...best to communicate with the re-sellers here in our country or post your question here for our fearless leaders who make and test this great product!

[Phantom30]

Thanks for the tech dump on threads. Guess the best way to get specific answers is to start a new small thread and let the info flow.

[Rompin Ruger]

I'm a newbie so best to possibly PM Ausglock, Hi-Tec or one of the founders/testing of this great product.

[Avenger442]

A little over two years ago when I started I did read "the whole thing". And there should be a merit badge for anyone that does it now.

There is a shorter one on this site called "HI-TEK do's and don'ts". It was posted by Ausglock when the same thing was asked some time ago. It may be of some help.

Other than that ditto the above

[Rompin Ruger]

Doh...smart idea to remember/share that, Avenger.

I remember seeing that article and reading it and it pretty much paralleled what Donnie M sent me when I bought the stuff...

[Ausglock]

Merit Badge??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

What do you want to know???

[Phantom30]

How well does it hold up on high speed no GC boolits like 300 WM, Understand you are a pistol guy. Remember seeing those big piles of cut up FALs etc down under. What a waste.

[Ausglock]

How well does it hold up on high speed no GC boolits like 300 WM, Understand you are a pistol guy. Remember seeing those big piles of cut up FALs etc down under. What a waste.
300 Winnie Mag would be a bit of a stretch for any coating.
Yeah. My SLR (FN FAL) was a great rifle. Used it to shoot pigs out of a chopper back in the day.

[Phantom30]

Well isn't that the key feature of the coating is that it stretches. Oh well, got to try, maybe as you say 300WM is a bit to far. As for shooting out of choppers well check my Avatar. My favorite FAL is an Izzy Heavy barrel, thing is like a BAR, heavy. That's why I am doing 300 BLK carbines and pistol formats, you can still lift and carry them. As for HiTek, are there differences in effects, my zombie green comes in today. It appears that the metallic, like old gold, red copper or dark green are preferred, does it matter? I picked the zombie green so I can tell them apart.

[Ausglock]

The Zombie green actually has a gold metallic component in it.
At least the ones I tested did. Might have to confirm this with HITEK Joe.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

The Zombie green actually has a gold metallic component in it.
At least the ones I tested did. Might have to confirm this with HITEK Joe.

The Zombie Green does have a gold metallic component effect to it.
300 WM is indeed pushing the limits on a bullet coating. Cast them as hard as possible.

[Avenger442]

Since the pressure in a 300WM is real high and that 3000 fps casting hard is a good idea. I noticed somewhere a loading with the Hi-Tek that was using 34 BHN. I think it was in 303 Enfield. Too hard for me since I hunt with my loads. Might work on dangerous game but the white tail deer just runs too far after hit.

Another suggestion could be to apply three coats and bake them hard. You'll probably loose the green color with the longer hotter bake.

Do a few and report back what happens. Inquiring minds want to know.

[bfuller14]

leadman is one that has shot the Hi-Tek in the 3000fps range...

[Rich22]

Here is a question. So I tried something new this morning and water dropped a batch of 9mm after the third coat with Bronze. I had, for the first time in months, a failure with the bronze. Huge failure of the smash test, passed wipe. 12 Minutes @ 400F per a TC and then immediate water drop into room temp water. Wanted to try to get some extra hardness but wow what a failure, glad I only did 3 pounds. The others of the same coat/cook process passed without problems but let to air cool. Anyone have any ideas?

[Avenger442]

Here is a question. So I tried something new this morning and water dropped a batch of 9mm after the third coat with Bronze. I had, for the first time in months, a failure with the bronze. Huge failure of the smash test, passed wipe. 12 Minutes @ 400F per a TC and then immediate water drop into room temp water. Wanted to try to get some extra hardness but wow what a failure, glad I only did 3 pounds. The others of the same coat/cook process passed without problems but let to air cool. Anyone have any ideas?

I'm not sure the water drop was the reason. I have water dropped probably 50% of the bullets I coat and haven't had a problem with smash test. Did it come off in big flakes all the way down to the lead?

Best I have been able to gain is 2 BHN with water drop after coat. Depends on the alloy.

[HI-TEK]

Here is a question. So I tried something new this morning and water dropped a batch of 9mm after the third coat with Bronze. I had, for the first time in months, a failure with the bronze. Huge failure of the smash test, passed wipe. 12 Minutes @ 400F per a TC and then immediate water drop into room temp water. Wanted to try to get some extra hardness but wow what a failure, glad I only did 3 pounds. The others of the same coat/cook process passed without problems but let to air cool. Anyone have any ideas?

Some ideas of what may have happened.
Did you smash test after first coat?
1. Also, before water dropping, did you test some with smash test first, to see if coating has bonded? If smash test passed first, there should be no reason why water dropping should fail
2. If it failed smash test, before water dropping, then water could get between coating and alloy, and, as alloy is at 200C +, the water instantly would form steam between coating and alloy, and steam/vapour would be lifting off non bonded coating.

[Ausglock]

After spending a very wet saturday cruising through posts on this thread. I am convinced that most of the issues people have with the coating is Operator error.
Either use too much mix per coat, or do not let air dry long enough seems to be the main reasons.
A lesser reason seems to be users not mixing large enough quantities and trying to cheapskate it by mixing tiny amounts to only coat 20 to 50 bullets at a time.

It's not rocket science.

[PAT303]

Thats the way I see it.With the first coat,if you think you haven't put enough on it's perfect,if you think it's OK you've used too much. Pat

[Rich22]

I'm not sure the water drop was the reason. I have water dropped probably 50% of the bullets I coat and haven't had a problem with smash test. Did it come off in big flakes all the way down to the lead?

Best I have been able to gain is 2 BHN with water drop after coat. Depends on the alloy.

It was quite weird. The other 6 lbs of the same batch that was used, the ones that we air cooled, passed tests perfectly fine. The flakes were grain of sand size and numerous. Just weird in that it is the first bronze failure in 2 months unless I was trying something almost stupid like way overloading the oven.

[Rich22]

Some ideas of what may have happened.
Did you smash test after first coat?
1. Also, before water dropping, did you test some with smash test first, to see if coating has bonded? If smash test passed first, there should be no reason why water dropping should fail
2. If it failed smash test, before water dropping, then water could get between coating and alloy, and, as alloy is at 200C +, the water instantly would form steam between coating and alloy, and steam/vapour would be lifting off non bonded coating.

It passed smash after coat 1 and coat 2. Also passed wipe after 1 and 2 I did not check prior to water dropping on coat 3 since this particular load went straight from oven into the water, others that were cooked immediately before and were air dried and using the same coating procedures passed the coat 3 smash test fine.

[Rich22]

Thats the way I see it.With the first coat,if you think you haven't put enough on it's perfect,if you think it's OK you've used too much. Pat

Yep, 1 Ml/Lb each coat 20/125 for first, 20/100 for 2 and 3. I know Ausglock does 20/100 for all 3 but I have found in my particular circumstances that it seems to work better to use thinner for the first.

[Ausglock]

Yep, 1 Ml/Lb each coat 20/125 for first, 20/100 for 2 and 3. I know Ausglock does 20/100 for all 3 but I have found in my particular circumstances that it seems to work better to use thinner for the first.

For pistol stuff I only do 2 coats. For 44 for the Marlin 1894, I do 3 coats

[psychbiker]

Got my oven last night and have 15lbs of 175gr 40sw to coat, about 5lbs of 135gr 9mm too.

2 questions:

What's the shelf life on the powder once mixed and placed into cleaned nail polish remover bottles?

Can I have two trays baking at a time in the oven?

[Phantom30]

BBQJoe cites the preheat temperature to be 190C (375F) and also 200C (392F) in various extracts within this thread. I have been looking at methods for coating without a toaster oven or electricity. There is something called a Sun Oven which can heat between 360 F and 400F, expensive but appears to work, although cooking food in it will be questionable after baking boolits.

https://www.sunoven.com/sun-cooking-usa/why-use-it/benefits-of-solar-cooking/

What is the actual cure temperature (degrees F) and for what duration (minutes)?

[Avenger442]

Got my oven last night and have 15lbs of 175gr 40sw to coat, about 5lbs of 135gr 9mm too.

2 questions:

What's the shelf life on the powder once mixed and placed into cleaned nail polish remover bottles?

Can I have two trays baking at a time in the oven?

Longest I have kept coating mixed before using is two months. I believe that Ausglock and Joe have kept some longer. Didn't see any change in performance but seemed to change the color some. If you are using one of the blacks It probably won't make a difference. My Gun Metal and Gold 1035 changed color a little. Depending on how air tight the bottle is, you might have to add acetone before using after long storage. Mine were not and had to add some when I used the coating.

The number of trays you can bake and how many bullets depends on the oven. If you have one of the high end ovens, $300+US, you probably will not stretch it's capability with two trays loaded with three to four pounds each. I have stretched mine with two trays four pounds each. It's kind of a middle of the road oven as far as price, air circulation and baking power. My first oven was a yard sale buy that I got for $10 or $15 and had no PID. It would only do three to four pounds and one tray. In the new oven I typically set the PID where it will keep one tray four pounds at 400F (I know that's a little above the recommended high). If I do two trays four pounds each it will not get to the recommended bake temp 390 F quickly and will only barely maintain that temp or ten degrees below during the bake. Makes a wipe failure possible. But no problem just pop them back in the oven for a while.

If I were starting with a low to middle priced oven I would do one tray three pounds at 390F for 12 minutes and go from there. With no PID, sit and watch the bake you may have to fiddle with the temp knob or display during the bake to maintain 390F. Highly recommend some type of temp measurement in the oven with the bullets. I use el-cheap-o round oven thermometer from Wal Mart. There are more precise thermometers but mine works for me. My middle of the road oven is 50 degrees low from the setting on the knob at 390F. The timers are not that good either so time with your clock or phone or.....

[Avenger442]

BBQJoe cites the preheat temperature to be 190C (375F) and also 200C (392F) in various extracts within this thread. I have been looking at methods for coating without a toaster oven or electricity. There is something called a Sun Oven which can heat between 360 F and 400F, expensive but appears to work, although cooking food in it will be questionable after baking boolits.

https://www.sunoven.com/sun-cooking-usa/why-use-it/benefits-of-solar-cooking/

What is the actual cure temperature (degrees F) and for what duration (minutes)?

That Sun Oven looks interesting. I wonder if it is sturdy enough to hold the lead on trays and of course you would not have the air circulation. I would definitely not cook food in it after using to bake bullets. My last oven had a residue on the inside of the glass door.

I would say if you could get it to do a steady 390 F for twelve minutes you would be able to get what you want in performance of the coating but probably not get even colors throughout the tray. I noticed it said something about moving the oven to track the sun to help maintain temp.

If you spend the $400 and bake bullets in it let us know how it turns out.

[Phantom30]

Thanks good stuff. If the temperature wavers because of clouds will just continuing to cook until you get 12 minutes of exposure at 390F work. Is there a down side to over cooking etc.

The proper link to the oven is
https://www.sunoven.com/product/all-american-sun-oven/

The capacity is 18lbs for a turkey, the tray size is a limiter 12"x9"x1.5" however, the dehydrating ranks are three tall and can handle 3lbs each. So you can get about 100 210gr boolits per rank. Unit has internal thermometer to track temperature and a solar alignment gauge. The sun doesn't move enough in 12 minutes to matter much to the oven. So if you don't have electricity available, then there appears to be an option to continue to coat as long as the supplies last. The oven weight is 23lbs and it folds up somewhat.

PS a custom quad cavity hollow point casting die with shipping etc. costs more.

[ThaDoubleJ]

Here's my second attempt. First picture is freshly coated and a little lumpy, second picture is after a week of drying in super dry Colorado with temps in the mid eighties. They bubbled immediately. I added a splash of acetone to my ketchup squirter and coated 6 more, we'll see how it goes. They still coated pretty lumpy though.
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc519/ThaDoubleJ/458%20SOCOM/IMG_20160525_173640128_zpszk84ods4.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc519/ThaDoubleJ/458%20SOCOM/IMG_20160606_181529767_zpskldxzw60.jpg

[Ausglock]

My God!!!!!!!!

[Rompin Ruger]

Trevor,

They be ugly, but with super dry mountain air, didn't you used to say that occurred most when they're tumbled too long and start picking semi-dried crud from inside the bucket?

[Ausglock]

If the air is that dry, When you do a mix, Use 20gms of powder to 80mls of Acetone and 20mls of Metho (White spirit).
This will slow down the flash off time. Also, you may only have to swirl for 10 to 15 seconds.
The 2nd photo looks like far far far too much coating used.

You have to adapt to your environment.

[Ausglock]

BBQJoe cites the preheat temperature to be 190C (375F) and also 200C (392F) in various extracts within this thread. I have been looking at methods for coating without a toaster oven or electricity. There is something called a Sun Oven which can heat between 360 F and 400F, expensive but appears to work, although cooking food in it will be questionable after baking boolits.

https://www.sunoven.com/sun-cooking-usa/why-use-it/benefits-of-solar-cooking/

What is the actual cure temperature (degrees F) and for what duration (minutes)?

You could always rig up a tray mounted above a Propane turkey fryer and use the hot air...

[Phantom30]

saving the propane to heat the house

[ThaDoubleJ]

If the air is that dry, When you do a mix, Use 20gms of powder to 80mls of Acetone and 20mls of Metho (White spirit).
This will slow down the flash off time. Also, you may only have to swirl for 10 to 15 seconds.
The 2nd photo looks like far far far too much coating used.

You have to adapt to your environment.

Ok, I'm not clear on one thing though. Is it coat-coat-bake, or coat-bake-coat-bake? The ones above are coat-coat-bake. The batch of six that I just did are going to be coat-bake-coat-bake.

[HI-TEK]

Ok, I'm not clear on one thing though. Is it coat-coat-bake, or coat-bake-coat-bake? The ones above are coat-coat-bake. The batch of six that I just did are going to be coat-bake-coat-bake.

That is the problem, Coat and re coat simply is no good. Second coat simply acts a stripper for first coat as first coat is not baked to set it. You trying to coat twice without baking each coat first will cause such roughness.

[Rich22]

Ok, I'm not clear on one thing though. Is it coat-coat-bake, or coat-bake-coat-bake? The ones above are coat-coat-bake. The batch of six that I just did are going to be coat-bake-coat-bake.

bake after each coat. Do I read this right that you did 6 bullets?? Have to do decent size batches. Weigh out 3 pounds of bullets and coat that then dry and then cook and then repeat.

[Ausglock]

6 Bullets?????????
At least do 200 per batch.
Did you get instructions with your coating???

RTFM!!!!!!

[Avenger442]

Ease up guys!
Don't want to run them off before learning how to do it.

[ThaDoubleJ]

I'm doing tiny batches to reduce the amount of bullets I ruin with my terrible coatings. Each of these mistake bullets I have to remelt, clean the **** out of the pot, cast into an ingot, and then recast as I'm sure you all know. I'd much rather be out shooting.

Avenger also makes a good point. Lubing is way easier than this, and I don't have enough dough invested in coating at this point to dissuade me from bailing on the project if it doesn't start working in the next few tries.

[PAT303]

It is easy mate,I dilute my coating with a bit extra acetone and do three thin coats on all my boolits,it works for me.Do two kilo's at a time with 2-3ml of coating per go and as soon as you hear the noise change to a dull rumble,the noise change is really distinctive,toss them onto a drying tray.Stick them somewhere warm for an hour at least or overnight and bake the first coat for 15 minutes at 200/220 degree's C to get a solid bond.I think your troubles are from not doing enough boolits,doing 6 at a time will guarantee too much coating per boolit and failure. Pat

[Avenger442]

I'm doing tiny batches to reduce the amount of bullets I ruin with my terrible coatings. Each of these mistake bullets I have to remelt, clean the **** out of the pot, cast into an ingot, and then recast as I'm sure you all know. I'd much rather be out shooting.

Avenger also makes a good point. Lubing is way easier than this, and I don't have enough dough invested in coating at this point to dissuade me from bailing on the project if it doesn't start working in the next few tries.

Lubing may be easier but you are trying Hi Tek for a reason.
My comment was just meant to calm the waters a little.
I thought about using the grease/wax/.... lubes when I started casting. I never went down that road and have never regretted it. But even lubing has instructions that must be followed to succeed with it. I know it's kind of a guy thing to not read them. I do it myself. But if I'm really concerned about getting it right the first time I usually try to follow the instructions. I melted about eight pounds of 45s due to my not following the instructions so I can also identify with the "don't want to remelt". So I have a suggestion. Why don't you try coating the amount recommended with the amount of coating recommended and only bake a few. If they don't turn out all you have to do is drop the rest in acetone and clean the coating off. Just remember when you do the first coat it should almost look like they don't have any on them. Someone once called it staining not coating.

I think when you get that first batch of bullets done and shoot them you'll love this stuff. But if not you can always go back to lubing. Which Joe will tell you Hi Tek really is. But you know what I mean the old way.

[Gremlin460]

coating a handful at a time is akin to mixing enough dough to make one slice of bread, using a recipe for a whole loaf.
IT DOES NOT WORK.

[ThaDoubleJ]

I think I have the sound change part figured out, I definitely missed it on my very first batch, but on my latest one I dumped them as soon as they stopped clinking. As for coating 200 of them, I don't have 200 of them. They're 340gr .458s, I think I cast about 140 of them, which ended up being nearly 1/3 of my entire supply of lead. I also remember my first batch looking like they had nothing on them, so I kept glopping more in until they looked coated. I'll attempt a much lighter coating, or maybe just put some acetone in my tupperware and thin out the coating that stuck to the bottom of that. I should also make a conversion chart of metric to SAE, as the instructions (which I did read, but this thread does have 363 pages...) and advice I'm getting here use units of measure that my country still stubbornly refuses to teach us. I did all the conversions when I made my mix, but when you all say kilos and mls I get totally lost.

[slide]

There are all kinds of conversion charts on the internet. You should be able to convert about anything. You could also weigh your bullets instead of counting. A lot faster. I guarantee this stuff will work if you have the right amount of bullets,the right amount of coating,and are sure the temp in your oven is correct. We all had failures when we first started. My only experience is with pistol bullets and Hi-tek is superior to anything else out there! You got the instructions with your coating? Focus on those.

[Corral]

i make another batch 2 weeks ago with the candy apple red and they all pass wipe and smash test and i was very happy whit the result, when i size them a few were scraped on one side , i supposed is a cast issue
http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p505/corral43/boulet%202e%20batch%20008_zpstwwfbgq7.jpg (http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/corral43/media/boulet%202e%20batch%20008_zpstwwfbgq7.jpg.html)htt p://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p505/corral43/boulet%202e%20batch%20009_zpskrcyflqr.jpg (http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/corral43/media/boulet%202e%20batch%20009_zpskrcyflqr.jpg.html)

now i decided to put it a third coat and WD them after to get more bhn and it all flaked to the bare lead on smash test

anyone know why ?

[slide]

Coating should not scrape off when sizing unless you are sizing down a lot. If it is cured properly it will not scrape off. Waterdropping shouldn't cause it to come off. Go back and double check everything, proper proportions, proper amount of bullets,temp in the oven, drying time. What alloy are you using? How did they shoot?

[Avenger442]

May be a pass. Here are some of mine.

[popper]

If using a Lee sizer, make sure it 'floats' a bit in the press and is 'clean'. Seems any mis-alignment can cause scraping and leave the die dirty so the next one is bad also. I have to be careful doing the smash test on concrete as the coating micro-cracks and comes off.

[Rich22]

I think I have the sound change part figured out, I definitely missed it on my very first batch, but on my latest one I dumped them as soon as they stopped clinking. As for coating 200 of them, I don't have 200 of them. They're 340gr .458s, I think I cast about 140 of them, which ended up being nearly 1/3 of my entire supply of lead. I also remember my first batch looking like they had nothing on them, so I kept glopping more in until they looked coated. I'll attempt a much lighter coating, or maybe just put some acetone in my tupperware and thin out the coating that stuck to the bottom of that. I should also make a conversion chart of metric to SAE, as the instructions (which I did read, but this thread does have 363 pages...) and advice I'm getting here use units of measure that my country still stubbornly refuses to teach us. I did all the conversions when I made my mix, but when you all say kilos and mls I get totally lost.

From someone who has screwed up in almost every way imaginable. Weight the bullets, do not count them. Swirl them for 15-20 seconds, count it off if you need to. If the first coat is anything but barely barely visable then it is too thick. If you do not have an oven thermo or a thermocouple, get one since no oven is accurate to the knob/display. Get a timer or use your phone and do not put it in another room and forget it for 30 minutes (dont ask how I know this)

[Rich22]

i make another batch 2 weeks ago with the candy apple red and they all pass wipe and smash test and i was very happy whit the result, when i size them a few were scraped on one side , i supposed is a cast issue
http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p505/corral43/boulet%202e%20batch%20008_zpstwwfbgq7.jpg (http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/corral43/media/boulet%202e%20batch%20008_zpstwwfbgq7.jpg.html)htt p://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p505/corral43/boulet%202e%20batch%20009_zpskrcyflqr.jpg (http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/corral43/media/boulet%202e%20batch%20009_zpskrcyflqr.jpg.html)

now i decided to put it a third coat and WD them after to get more bhn and it all flaked to the bare lead on smash test

anyone know why ?

Same issue i got twice, I am quite confused on this. For further inquiry, did they actually flake? If I am at all concerned I wrap mine in something white and can see if anything flakes.

[psychbiker]

My first go at this. Previously did 45/45/10 but the colors in hi Tek really intrigued me.

I did 20/100 powder to acetone. Let the mixture set an hour before using. I did 1 mil per lb of bullets. Cooked all around 11-12 minutes. Don't have a thermometer yet. Passed smash and wiped test.

I did screw up and use the same tub to mix. The black turned to black cherry cuz I DD a batch of red before. Zombie green got some black and red too. I'm gonna get separate tubs for colors now

http://i.imgur.com/JrxPI7el.png
.

[leadman]

Way back in this thread I posted about the rough machining on the taper of the Lee push thru sizers. This is the area where the boolit enters the die and is sized up towards the middle of the die. I used a split rod in a cordless drill with some fine emery paper in it. Think around 400 grit. Doesn't take much to smooth out the lathe marks and stay away from the part that actually determines what the boolit is sized to.
I run my boolits over my RCBS pad for case lubing and it really helps ease the sizing. I use the RCBS case lube also.
What popper said about the Lee die being misaligned is true. I leave the die loose and run a boolit up into it, then snug up the lock ring.

[slide]

For the new guys,there are several how to videos on you tube about using Hi-Tek. Our own Gremlin 460 has one that is really good. He weighs and measures everything and gets excellent and consistent results.