simple Hi-Tek coating

[Gremlin460]

just don't tell them about the glo-in-the-dark colours I been getting off you to try Joe.

[Ausglock]

just don't tell them about the glo-in-the-dark colours I been getting off you to try Joe.

Old news...
The Tracer coating is the way to go for night shooting. You have to use the original catalyst to get enough friction to ignite the coating. Extreme Catalysts don't work.
Red and green tracer coating... yeah baby.

[Gateway Bullets]

That is brilliant. Joe needs to use that for his avatar.

Lol lol lol glad I could help!

[gunoil]

ausglock, i thought u said gov took all your rifles away.

[kryogen]

you guys need to have a canadian distributor, or someone in the usa who will ship to canada....

[HI-TEK]

you guys need to have a canadian distributor, or someone in the usa who will ship to canada....

Great Idea, But no takers I am aware of.

[Ausglock]

ausglock, i thought u said gov took all your rifles away.
they took all the semi-auto rifles and the auto and pump shotguns.

[Gremlin460]

Old news...
The Tracer coating is the way to go for night shooting. You have to use the original catalyst to get enough friction to ignite the coating. Extreme Catalysts don't work.
Red and green tracer coating... yeah baby.

I just fit the striker out of a used BIC at the muzzle, 100% ignition of coating.

[gunoil]

ok! ausglock

Have some cat #2 now, l like that stuff. Shiny and slick as frog hair.

[Ausglock]

Personally. I like the 3 Extreme Cat. It seems to give me a better finish.

[prickett]

ok! ausglock

Have some cat #2 now, l like that stuff. Shiny and slick as frog hair.

Where did you get it? Is Bayou Bullets selling it now?

[gunoil]

well heck, may (#3) have to try that next. Yea prickett BB.

[Ausglock]

where you been Gunslick? Haven't see you here for awhile.

[kryogen]

they took all the semi-auto rifles and the auto and pump shotguns.

and why did the people accept this?

[Ausglock]

it was back in 96. our firearms lobby groups failed us. They were trying to keep their own little bit of shooting at the expense of the other groups. Shooters are shooters own worst enemy.
We got shafted. there were some of us that were prepared to stand together against the buyback (stealback) but we were targeted by the police for "special" treatment if we did not comply.

[dverna]

it was back in 96. our firearms lobby groups failed us. They were trying to keep their own little bit of shooting at the expense of the other groups. Shooters are shooters own worst enemy.
We got shafted. there were some of us that were prepared to stand together against the buyback (stealback) but we were targeted by the police for "special" treatment if we did not comply.

Very true words Ausglock.

A number of trapshooters at the club did not have a problem with AR15's being banned after the Sandy Hook hoopla. They idiots did not realize that it is the thin edge of wedge the anti-gunners want - eventually the rationale will be, "why do you need a semi-auto shotgun?" and on and on.

I feel for you guys. What they did was so wrong.

Don Verna

[Ausglock]

we now have new shooters that have never used or even held an AR15 or Mini14 or M1A or Rem 870 shottie. They now say "why did you need semiauto" my answer is " cause they were fun"

The world has truely turned to schit.

[Gateway Bullets]

we now have new shooters that have never used or even held an AR15 or Mini14 or M1A or Rem 870 shottie. They now say "why did you need semiauto" my answer is " cause they were fun"

The world has truely turned to schit.

Amen!

[Lizard333]

we now have new shooters that have never used or even held an AR15 or Mini14 or M1A or Rem 870 shottie. They now say "why did you need semiauto" my answer is " cause they were fun"

The world has truely turned to schit.

I hate to correct you. But.....
YOUR world has turned to schit. Here in the US, in Arizona, MY world is just fine. I own and shoot ALL of those guns and more.

Every day I make a conscious effort to prevent my world from going the way yours did. Your situation gives me the fuel to fight ALL REASONABLE gun laws. I see where it can go, and I want NOTHING of it.

[Ausglock]

I, Sir, Stand Corrected.
Your world is indeed fine.
One day, I hope my world will again be as fine as yours.


I hate to correct you. But.....
YOUR world has turned to schit. Here in the US, in Arizona, MY world is just fine. I own and shoot ALL of those guns and more.

Every day I make a conscious effort to prevent my world from going the way yours did. Your situation gives me the fuel to fight ALL REASONABLE gun laws. I see where it can go, and I want NOTHING of it.

[220]

Don. no worries.

The number of rifle shooters in OZ that cast could be counted on one hand. it is not a big deal here.

Not true at all Ausglock, I personally know more than I can count on both hands.
I cast for 30/30, 45/70 and 22 centre fires, most though don't push the velocity envelope and are happy under 2000fps.
I will be trying HiTek with all of these when I get around to it but only because I am already set up for to do it with pistol boolits.
Most probably can't see any value it setting up for HiTek given the limited volume of projectiles they use and as they are happy with the results they already get.
The blokes getting the best accuracy with cast in Aus are probably the long range BP crowd but for them HiTek doesn't offer any advantages. I know a few silhouette shooters who have played with cast but they almost all use jacketed exclusively because they couldn't get the results they were after with cast regardless of lube.
I will more than likely end up using HiTek for my lever action silhouette shooting, but we are only talking 200m and it means I don't need to push velocity, my current 45/70 load only clocks 1450fps with conventional lube and 2-3moa gets the job done so no need to push velocity.

[kryogen]

I hate to correct you. But.....
YOUR world has turned to schit. Here in the US, in Arizona, MY world is just fine. I own and shoot ALL of those guns and more.

Every day I make a conscious effort to prevent my world from going the way yours did. Your situation gives me the fuel to fight ALL REASONABLE gun laws. I see where it can go, and I want NOTHING of it.

I was there last week in phoenix for professionnal training, went at scottsdale gun club, I shot some full auto M16 and UMP45

can you say fun, best 200$ spent in 5 minutes.

grand canyon is nice, so is hiking the camel mountain and the other one with the weird name. cactus garden nice also ;)

[Ausglock]

OK. let me re-phrase that.

Rifles that are high velocity EG: 308win, 30/06 25/06, 243, 22/250, 223, 338 Lap.
you know... normal rifles.
Not old antique stuff. Rifles that have velocity above 2700fps with jacketed pills.


Not true at all Ausglock, I personally know more than I can count on both hands.
I cast for 30/30, 45/70 and 22 centre fires, most though don't push the velocity envelope and are happy under 2000fps.
I will be trying HiTek with all of these when I get around to it but only because I am already set up for to do it with pistol boolits.
Most probably can't see any value it setting up for HiTek given the limited volume of projectiles they use and as they are happy with the results they already get.
The blokes getting the best accuracy with cast in Aus are probably the long range BP crowd but for them HiTek doesn't offer any advantages. I know a few silhouette shooters who have played with cast but they almost all use jacketed exclusively because they couldn't get the results they were after with cast regardless of lube.
I will more than likely end up using HiTek for my lever action silhouette shooting, but we are only talking 200m and it means I don't need to push velocity, my current 45/70 load only clocks 1450fps with conventional lube and 2-3moa gets the job done so no need to push velocity.

[220]

OK. let me re-phrase that.

Rifles that are high velocity EG: 308win, 30/06 25/06, 243, 22/250, 223, 338 Lap.
you know... normal rifles.
Not old antique stuff. Rifles that have velocity above 2700fps with jacketed pills.

I doubt there are very many casters anywhere that are running anything like that at full throttle and if they are then I would guess your looking at heavy for calibre boolits resulting in lower velocity anyway.
I do load cast in my 222 but again not looking for velocity, a load that duplicates 22WMR ballistics is what I use. Once I have one sorted with HiTek I'll work up a similar load for my swift.
Still I think there would be more than a handful in Aus that are loading rifle to 2000fps+, I know I sell the odd box of gas checks in everything from 22-45 and if I'm selling them then the gunshops would be selling far more.

[Gremlin460]

PTA arrived, safe is in a bolted, XL650 arrives tommorow, but its range day for me and the wife, so the press will have to wait till sunday, lucky Monday is a public holiday...
With pistol at home I can start on the testing on OAL that cycles and other customizing tweaks to suit my firearm.

Getting very close to being able to run the hi-tek testing program for my barrel.. looking forward to it actually.

[leadman]

I took some of the 22 cal. Bator boolits coated with Hi-Tek to the range yesterday. I was trying to see how fast I could shoot this 50gr boolit without leading.
I used H4895 again and when I got to the last load of 27.5gr the velocity average was 3,619 fps for 3 shots. Accuracy was unimpressive at 2.9" but I will work on this. The practical maximum velocity is just under 3,500 fps with accuracy less than 2" for all loads.
The Bator boolits were cast of linotype and then heat treated. Gas checks were Hornady and primer was WSR. The gun was my Contender with a 23" bull barrel.
One thing about heat treated lino is the bhn is very hard at 35 and remained at 32 after coating and baking. On one batch of the Lyman 45gr RN 22 cal boolits I tried to install the aluminum gas checks after heat treating. This does not work well at all as the aluminum extrudes down below the base of the boolit. Install the gcs before heat treating if you use aluminum.
I also tried some boolits in my 22 K-Hornet with no gas checks and they would be ok for 50 yard shots with the gas checks they are much more accurate.

[dverna]

leadman,

That velocity is very impressive. Even if you had to dial it back to 3000 fps to get 1.5" groups it would MAKE NEWS!!!!! Heck, even at 2500 fps it would be a significant step forward.

Three shot groups are OK for a 'rough cut' to see if a load has potential but then the work starts. I assume that is what you are doing. Looking forward to your progress on this and a few five shot groups as you zero in on the load.

There is a thread where I hope people working with coated bullets will publish success stories - see link:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?220557-Real-Accuracy-(2-moa-or-less)-with-Coated-Rifle-Bullets-at-1800-fps-or-greater

Thanks for posting. Again, well done.

Don Verna

[HI-TEK]

I took some of the 22 cal. Bator boolits coated with Hi-Tek to the range yesterday. I was trying to see how fast I could shoot this 50gr boolit without leading.
I used H4895 again and when I got to the last load of 27.5gr the velocity average was 3,619 fps for 3 shots. Accuracy was unimpressive at 2.9" but I will work on this. The practical maximum velocity is just under 3,500 fps with accuracy less than 2" for all loads.
The Bator boolits were cast of linotype and then heat treated. Gas checks were Hornady and primer was WSR. The gun was my Contender with a 23" bull barrel.
One thing about heat treated lino is the bhn is very hard at 35 and remained at 32 after coating and baking. On one batch of the Lyman 45gr RN 22 cal boolits I tried to install the aluminum gas checks after heat treating. This does not work well at all as the aluminum extrudes down below the base of the boolit. Install the gcs before heat treating if you use aluminum.
I also tried some boolits in my 22 K-Hornet with no gas checks and they would be ok for 50 yard shots with the gas checks they are much more accurate.

Leadman,
Thanks for your testing and posting of your results.
Currently, we are going to do some work, to determine engineering requirements for alloys so we can reproduce Jacketed ammo accuracy, using specific alloys only, and coated with the Hi-Tek coatings.
What is being considered is, that Soft Lead is enveloped with Copper Foil of various thicknesses and various hardness and malleability.
The Lead, during shooting, hydraulically seals the Copper against the Barrel, and the Copper
"holds "the shape of the contained Lead alloy.
We are aware, that for higher velocity applications, the Copper Films may be much thicker to withstand conditions being generated.
It is also a factor that you need very good sealing of Projectile to Barrel in order to reach maximum power use of burning powder.
I tried to express my concerns previously, that the requirements to shoot with coated cast projectiles may be an engineering related problem, this suggestion was frowned upon.
However, I am not daunted by sceptics at all, and, snide comments made by some, is not a new experience for me.
My understandings with harder alloys is, that because of the hardness, the sealing aspects in the barrel during firing may not be achieved to reach maximum power efficiency, and that is why it may be the main cause of loss in accuracy.
One of the areas that will be investigated, is to try and use a coated hard projectile with larger diameter, to allow some compensation for inadequate sealing taking place with the harder alloy.
It is hoped that by use of a much tighter fitting coated hard alloy, the accuracy can be maintained and also we can maintain speed.
The other aspects being investigated is to not use gas checks at all with harder coated alloys.
Rationale used is, that with combination of larger diameter coated alloy, and the coating having high heat reflecting property, may offer adequate sealing and heat reflecting property, so gas checks may not be required.
Hopefully, we can make good progress with such tests and obtain results which can be then posted.
Now, the first step is to determine most optimum alloy composition/s/hardness, to start doing these tests.

[leadman]

In the 223 Rem Contender I had sized the boolits to .225" but I may load some unsized boolits to see what happens.

[popper]

Install the gcs before heat treating if you use aluminum. Actually, install before coating works best, copper or alum. Joe, I've been testing 30/30 165 sans check (PCd) and getting decent accuracy somewhere between 16-1800 fps - haven't chronyd yet. Normal 311 sizing - it's the base band strength & shape that gives the accuracy, not just sealing. There is a good reason for short BT base design in jacketed. If you convolve (I know, math) the PB or BT base muzzle exit, the BT has much lower gas exit velocity thus less steering force on the base. Effect works the same for slightly rounded GC base, plus the nice uniform base.

[HI-TEK]

Install the gcs before heat treating if you use aluminum. Actually, install before coating works best, copper or alum. Joe, I've been testing 30/30 165 sans check (PCd) and getting decent accuracy somewhere between 16-1800 fps - haven't chronyd yet. Normal 311 sizing - it's the base band strength & shape that gives the accuracy, not just sealing. There is a good reason for short BT base design in jacketed. If you convolve (I know, math) the PB or BT base muzzle exit, the BT has much lower gas exit velocity thus less steering force on the base. Effect works the same for slightly rounded GC base, plus the nice uniform base.

Thanks for useful information which is most helpful.
I suppose that accuracy is also dependent on base shape, Bearing surface area, and a whole lot of other mechanical reasons, all of which, is directly responsible for maintaining a true travel characteristics inside the barrel and to maintain accuracy..
Achieving 1800 fy/second with powder coat is OK but that is not the question here.
People are wanting to determine or are sceptical about use of the Hi-Tek coatings in ammo that is travelling at 2000ft/sec and onwards.
I have seen no data or residual deposit reports, nor accuracy reports on use of powder coat at speeds above 2000 ft/sec.
I have seen reports of people trying to remove severe build up of powder coating andLeading from barrels and were seeking methods how to clean their guns.
I posted replies to such requests.
We know that the Hi-Tek coating survives and stays put on alloys travelling at those speeds. What is not clear is, and requires some research, is to determine why accuracy is lost at those speeds, with various cast alloys despite coating being able to stay put and keeping separate the cast alloy from bore of the gun being used.
The testing we are going to conduct, hopefully will at minimum determine, what are operating parameters for shooting cast alloys coated with Hi Tek coatings.
I am not in the business to test powder coatings, and if it is of interest to others, they can do the test themselves and report in details as we apparently are required to satisfy such curiosities.

[Gremlin460]

Not for me Joe, yesterday we fired 18 rounds out of a Sprinfield armory 1911 with a clean barrel and 14 in the black at 10yards. I took 9 and put 9 in the black at 10 yards with my 92fs, also clean barrel. For our NRA and IPSC matches, we are oh so close to our outcome we wanted.
If people want 1"moa @300 yards over 3000FPS, they make stuff called JACKETED AMMO.

[HI-TEK]

Not for me Joe, yesterday we fired 18 rounds out of a Sprinfield armory 1911 with a clean barrel and 14 in the black at 10yards. I took 9 and put 9 in the black at 10 yards with my 92fs, also clean barrel. For our NRA and IPSC matches, we are oh so close to our outcome we wanted.
I people want 1"moa @300 yards over 3000FPS, the make stuff called JACKETED AMMO.

Hi Gremlin,
Just wondering if you can kindly provide a few more details about those guns, speeds you normally achieve with them, and any other detail that would be useful, such as type, shape & weight of cast alloy, diameter sized, barrel bore diameter, powder load, Chronograph speeds etc etc..
I am not familiar with the guns you refer to, and, may be others may also be in the same boat.

Hopefully, if we do the research, on what is actually required for such applications as being asked, using some sort of alloy, coated with Hi-Tek, and find success, it should please some folk, but may upset others.
Thanks much for your reports.

[Gremlin460]

Ok no problem Joe, Sorry I haven't run these over the chrono as yet but plan too do so in the near future..

Andrews gun is a Springfield 1911 with a match barrel that slugged at 355.4, its quite a nice barrel actually.
Mine is a Beretta Inox 92FS that slugged to 356.2 Stainless.
The Rounds were Lee 125gr RN with the lube grooves removed from the mold, they now weigh in at 128.5 +/- .4gr.
I used the Gold 2 coats Extreme cat 2. Two coats 10 min cook time per coat, and sized with a push through Lee die to 358 diameter between the coats. So,Coated, baked, sized, coated and baked again.
Alloy was 2 parts COWW 2 parts SOWW and 1 part pure (soft) lead.
Cast hot, and water dropped on release from mold.
Brass was cleaned and sized but not trimmed and OAL was 1.115 .
3.2 grains of AP50 powder ignited by CCI 500 primers.
As stated we ran through a NRA match using club reloads prior to the testing so 48 rounds prior. Guns were not cleaned before the test of these coated rounds and both guns were clean in the bore and rifling. Just powder residue.

The casts were processed in a batch of 3000 early December last year and sat on the shelf until loaded last Wednesday.

I have as yet not chrono'd these rounds, but whatever they are traveling at both of us achieved tighter groups that the ones we got with the range reloads that day. Next time I will take pictures, sorry.

[popper]

Joe, my comment was for those shooting rifle sans GC (PB). Angled DB/shank is more accurate than square cut, per my 30/30 testing & PB. Coating is coating. I use your normal green for pistol. I cut my pistol alloy 50/50 with pure, coated and compared accuracy @ the same load. Not much difference from XDm 40SW @ 7 yds., easy to keep in the bull. The green works fine in 3 XDs 9's also. I do need to chrony the loads soon.

[leadman]

My test of the 22 Bator at 3,619fps was with 5 shot groups on purpose so I could post in in the other thread as qualifying for 2 moa over 1,800 fps. I had replaced the scope on this gun with a new scope but have never fired the gun with jacketed bullets to see if it is still maintaining the normal 1/2 moa accuracy from this gun. I will test it next range session.
Joe, I think the restriction to velocity is the strength of the alloy. The gas check allows one to "cheat" the physics and shoot a less hard alloy at higher velocity. The Red Copper coating seems to allow another "cheat" of physics in addition to the gas check. I think that the burning speed of the powder has a big effect on the boolit.

[HI-TEK]

My test of the 22 Bator at 3,619fps was with 5 shot groups on purpose so I could post in in the other thread as qualifying for 2 moa over 1,800 fps. I had replaced the scope on this gun with a new scope but have never fired the gun with jacketed bullets to see if it is still maintaining the normal 1/2 moa accuracy from this gun. I will test it next range session.
Joe, I think the restriction to velocity is the strength of the alloy. The gas check allows one to "cheat" the physics and shoot a less hard alloy at higher velocity. The Red Copper coating seems to allow another "cheat" of physics in addition to the gas check. I think that the burning speed of the powder has a big effect on the boolit.

Thank you for your input Leadman,
I have always thought that when examining any problem, with shooting/accuracy or other, it is always good to investigate what is causing the problem, by making changes one at a time.
When examining some aspects of the alleged complaints about the coatings, the main things that seem to stand out with inaccurate shooting results is,
1. Coating has not come off alloy
2. Coating did not leave any residues in barrel
3. No Leading or Lead deposits
4. Low smoke

The fact that the accuracy was not successful seems to point to many other possible contributions and appears an engineering problem as main suspect.
To an extent, I agree with you about alloys not being able to stand up to shooting conditions.
However, I also realise, that in Jacketed ammo, the alloy is much softer, so the harder alloy failure aspects become a question.
I have rationalised, that the Jacketing simply "holds" the alloy in shape during rapid hydraulic deformation of softer alloy, whilst shooting takes place.
With harder alloys, with no Jacket, the sealing of barrel, and deformation occurring, is markedly different in physical performance.

That is why I theorised, that during the very short resident time of projectile in the barrel, sealing aspects with harder alloys, may be less effective, and, may be contributing towards inaccuracies.

Due to very low resident time spent by alloy inside barrel, and due to alloy resisting deformation, and possibly not obtaining adequate sealing of barrel seems the most logical explanation at this stage.

However, until we do some testing with various hardness alloys, and various sized and over sized coated projectiles, we will not get a clear picture of why things are happening as they are.

My such rationale is backed up with the facts that the coatings have been used successfully on Jacketed ammo and no loss in accuracy.
Same coating, used on harder alloy (non Jacketed) shows up with loss of accuracy using same diameter projectiles.
I dont know, but that scenario seems to suggest, that we should be examining those aspects as a start.

With Gas Checks, and from what I have been told by shooters, it is used to stop heat damaging tail of alloy and with trying to stop hot gas bypass cutting of alloys.
Because of the high heat reflecting property of the coatings, in the majority, we seemed to have good results with cast ammo, as captured alloys shows, that the tails are not damaged at all when no gas checks are used.

So, your comments about "cheating" the physics seems valid.

I would be most pleased if you can post more of your playing results as they become available.

[prickett]

I recently had a less than stellar casting session, ending up with boolits with flashing on their base. The question is - can I coat with HI-TEK, then size, then coat with a second HI-TEK coating?

Previously, it was mentioned that applying coating to previously sized lead boolits didn't work well. I'm just wondering if coating sized previously coated boolits work.

[Ausglock]

Yeah. no worries. This is how I coat flat base bullets all the time.
1 coat, size, second coat.

No issues.

[HI-TEK]

I recently had a less than stellar casting session, ending up with boolits with flashing on their base. The question is - can I coat with HI-TEK, then size, then coat with a second HI-TEK coating?

Previously, it was mentioned that applying coating to previously sized lead boolits didn't work well. I'm just wondering if coating sized previously coated boolits work.

When casting is not so good, some like to size to correct shapes.
As sizing without lube is difficult, many use some sort of lube to help.
However, the lube used then interferes with coating process.
If you simply coat the newly cast alloy once, dry well, bake, cool, and then size.
The first coat, irrespective of appearance helps size out the rough finish, and coating will help sizing greatly.
It is also a good test to see if your first coat has bonded well.
After sizing, simply re-coat to achieve finish required.
Depending on how many subsequent coats are applied, and how thin each coat is, sometimes you do not have to re-size, and it will greatly depend on final diameter you require for your specific application.
Hope this helps

[Gremlin460]

Yeah. no worries. This is how I coat flat base bullets all the time.
1 coat, size, second coat.

No issues.

Prickett... Same for me, Cast ,coat,bake,size,coat,bake,shoot,recover,remelt,cas t, coat ad infinitum..

[Gremlin460]

I finally got time today to bake some casts that had been coated almost 4 weeks ago, even with the high humidity we have suffered over that time they baked and past the wipe, smash test fine.

Just in case anyone wondered how long you had before you had to actually bake the coated cast's.

[popper]

cast of linotype and then heat treated Leadman - wonder how long they have to sit to age harden?

[leadman]

popper, if I heat treat after HT coating the coating will flake off as it is burnt during the heat treating. These boolits sat for about 2 weeks after heat treating but I have fired some within a few days with no issues.
This is a picture of one of the aluminum gas checks hat I installed on the heat treated lino boolit.

Hi-Tek, ever see the picture of the Speer jacketed Grand Slam bullet that the nose changed from a spire point to a round nose when fired?. Speer hardened the lead alloy and ran the jacket up towards the nose farther to correct this problem IIRC.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Just coated my first batch tonight. I used too much coating so I added a bunch more bullets.
They came out awesome. Passed the wipe and smash test. I'm going to size them tonight then add a second coat.
What is the reason for the coat, size, coat. VS. Doing coat coat size?
Thanks guys! Can't wait to load and shoot these.

[jcobb651]

During the sizing process some of the coating can get removed if the diameter is excessive. By coat size coat you will never have exposed lead.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Thank you!

[Ausglock]

If they are bevel base, I coat twice and then size.
If flat base with a bit of flash at the base, I coat then size and then apply the second coat. it gives a better finish.

[Gremlin460]

He trev do anymore on your auto sizer?, looking to steal some Idea's if you have..

[Ausglock]

I gave up on the wiper motor.
I have ordered a 3 phase motor and worn drive gearbox at 25:1. this will give 57rpm.

[gunoil]

My plinkers are good, iam amature. Dang lead springback is what gets me. Ideas? No.

[Gremlin460]

Springback??

[Ramslammer]

G'Day All
Oven is on it's way, nephew has some nice mesh sheet for me and Joe is sending me some Dry compound. He sent some formula to my mate so I could pick it up and float it home but the couriers lost the con note and Joe found out over two weeks after he'd dropped it off. So through no fault of his I didn't get it in time, so he's helping me out with some other stuff. Great service thanks Joe.
Juddy

[prickett]

Is the dry compound currently for sale? Or is it still being tested/developed?

[HI-TEK]

Is the dry compound currently for sale? Or is it still being tested/developed?

The dry compound is only available in small quantities at this stage, and small production makes product too costly.
Hopefully that may change in next 3-5 months when new equipment and materials are able to be obtained.
People from all around the world are very interested in non solvent based system, because it is much safer and easier to send, safer to store, less transport costs, as it is not a dangerous goods item.

Tests have been concluded on several coloured systems, and they all work exactly as current solvent based system, and easier to use.
Unfortunately some colours are not able to be made in powdered form at this stage, and work is on going with trying to work out a way to make those in powder form as well.
Thanks for your interest.

[jcobb651]

Are all the colors that have that have been tested and proven in the liquid configuration available in the US? I would really like some of those that have been shown but I don't see them on Bayou Bullets website. Is Donnie the only US importer?

[farmerjim]

I liked the Kryptonite green that Ausglok had some pictures of a while back.

[jcobb651]

I liked the Kryptonite green that Ausglok had some pictures of a while back.

Thats one of the ones l REALLY want for my new Noe Hp mold.

[Beagle333]

Get in line! There's already a chorus of folks shouting "dibs!" on the green! [smilie=s::bigsmyl2:

(I think Gateway is right behind me, if I remember the order right.) :wink:

[HI-TEK]

Are all the colors that have that have been tested and proven in the liquid configuration available in the US? I would really like some of those that have been shown but I don't see them on Bayou Bullets website. Is Donnie the only US importer?

Thanks for your interest.
All the liquid versions have been tested and found OK.
I do not know why it is not advertised on websites in the US.
WE have just sent by sea freight, Dark Green, Red Copper, Gold 1035, Sunny Gold, Red 1220 Red 154, Extreme Catalyst, 500+ release agent. They should be all available in Mid to Late March in the US.
There is no reason why these cannot be advertised as they are already used in Aus, and elsewhere.
I suppose it is up to importers to make sure that local information is up to date.
If you require more information, please send me a PM.
Thanks for your interest.

[Ausglock]

I liked the Kryptonite green that Ausglok had some pictures of a while back.
If you liked the Kryptonite Green, You will love the Zombie Green.AKA Blue 424-2x/+1035.
Similar to the KG, but slightly lighter and brighter.
They look great when loaded in Nickel cases.

[prickett]

The dry compound is only available in small quantities at this stage, and small production makes product too costly.
Hopefully that may change in next 3-5 months when new equipment and materials are able to be obtained.
People from all around the world are very interested in non solvent based system, because it is much safer and easier to send, safer to store, less transport costs, as it is not a dangerous goods item.

Tests have been concluded on several coloured systems, and they all work exactly as current solvent based system, and easier to use.
Unfortunately some colours are not able to be made in powdered form at this stage, and work is on going with trying to work out a way to make those in powder form as well.
Thanks for your interest.

How about giving us a brief overview of how the dry compound works? (i.e. how to apply, any mixing required, baking process, etc)

Thanks!

[HI-TEK]

How about giving us a brief overview of how the dry compound works? (i.e. how to apply, any mixing required, baking process, etc)

Thanks!


Easy as falling off a log.

Powder is used at 10-12 grams, (1 level table spoon) and added to between 50 and 100 mls Acetone.
Then, mix and coat as you would with solvent based system.
No other measuring or adding.
Coating mixture can be made as dilute or as concentrated as required for your coating process.
10gms/50 mls worked, and 10gms/100mls also worked.
Hope that this answers your question.

[Ausglock]

I like 11gms ( 1 level tablespoon) to 100 mls of acetone. This is the same as 5-1-7 in the solvent coating.

[prickett]

Easy as falling off a log.

Powder is used at 10-12 grams, (1 level table spoon) and added to between 50 and 100 mls Acetone.
Then, mix and coat as you would with solvent based system.
No other measuring or adding.
Coating mixture can be made as dilute or as concentrated as required for your coating process.
10gms/50 mls worked, and 10gms/100mls also worked.
Hope that this answers your question.

Sounds great! Can't wait until its readily available. How about next you find something that allows lacquer thinner instead of acetone :-)

[HI-TEK]

Sounds great! Can't wait until its readily available. How about next you find something that allows lacquer thinner instead of acetone :-)

Thanks for your interest and please ask questions as they arise.

Commercial powdered version will really will depend on importers commitment, to, as they say "bite the bullet" and start placing forward orders.
This in turn, will encourage us to spend more moneys, to gear up, and to start making commercial volumes.

Your alternative solvent request is not so easy.
The materials require "Oxygenated" type solvents, (Ketone/Alcohol types).
The whole idea was, that using things like Acetone, allows very fast production as it dries very quickly and is compatibly with the whole system.

Using Lacquer thinner, can become very problematic, as then you would need the composition of each to ensure that you get a harmonious mixture for the coating system.
There are many blends of lacquer thinners on the market, not all with same ingredients, and can have various additives, that slow drying, improve leveling/degassing, flow control and on and on it goes.

It is quite possible, that use of such solvents can be achieved, especially if they contain high levels of Oxygenated solvent components, but we have not tried any, as we have had no reason to do so as current system works.

There is an old saying, why try to fix something, when it is working already?

[Ausglock]

Joe. I won the bet. Nothing delivered today.

[HI-TEK]

Joe. I won the bet. Nothing delivered today.

You said Thursday, You are affected by all that heat...lol
It is scheduled for delivery tomorrow, as it is now in depot in your area.
Soooo, I win....lol

[BigHoss74]

what convection toaster ovens is everyone running? I have an old one but it doesn't hold temperature very well so I'm just going to break down and buy a new one, but I don't want to spend a fortune.

[Ausglock]

BigHoss.
Cost is relative.
Do you want your coated bullets to coat and bake correctly? If so, get the good gear and you will have no worries.
Those that cheap skate it seem to have more problems.

Go back a few pages and have a look at the breville smart oven. buy once, cry once.

[kbstenberg]

I haven't seen in past posts. What are the advantages of using the powder? Is it more rifle friendly? hope hope!!
A question on the present liquid form. Can I ship some myself? Or are there special requirements to ship the color additive? Kevin

[Liberty'sSon]

There is an old saying, why try to fix something, when it is working already?[/QUOTE]

Joe, the southern American version of that saying is " If it ain't broke, don't fix it." ;)

[prickett]

I haven't seen in past posts. What are the advantages of using the powder?


Easier to use for one. Mix powder and acetone rather than shake the **** out of two liquids for 5 minutes, combine, then add acetone.

[dverna]

BigHoss.
Cost is relative.
Do you want your coated bullets to coat and bake correctly? If so, get the good gear and you will have no worries.
Those that cheap skate it seem to have more problems.

Go back a few pages and have a look at the breville smart oven. buy once, cry once.

Really good advice. Do it right and enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Don Verna

[Ausglock]

Easier to use for one. Mix powder and acetone rather than shake the **** out of two liquids for 5 minutes, combine, then add acetone.

I found that with the liquid, I could mix and leave for 5 minutes then I could use it. With the powder, I found that after mixing, I had to leave it for an hour to fully homogenise before use.

[Gateway Bullets]

Are all the colors that have that have been tested and proven in the liquid configuration available in the US? I would really like some of those that have been shown but I don't see them on Bayou Bullets website. Is Donnie the only US importer?

Jcobb651,

I also import,use, and sell the Hi-Tek coating. Give me a shout if you need some.

Also in regards to the powdered version of the coating, if anybody wants to start placing preorders of powder let me know. I am gearing up to start supplying.

[Ausglock]

Gateway. Nice website.
It looks great, works great, easy to navigate around it.
Well Done.

[Gateway Bullets]

Gateway. Nice website.
It looks great, works great, easy to navigate around it.
Well Done.

Thanks Trev, but I HATE THAT WEB SITE!!!!! My old one was much better! The server I had hosting my bullet site and gun site was hacked. Every web site was fine on the server except mine. We swapped the template to the current one for ease until they get things straightened out.

[jcobb651]

Jcobb651,

I also import,use, and sell the Hi-Tek coating. Give me a shout if you need some.

Also in regards to the powdered version of the coating, if anybody wants to start placing preorders of powder let me know. I am gearing up to start supplying.

Very good to know that you sell to the public. I knew through your posts that you were using it but I did not see on the website where you sold just the coating. Do you have any of the kryptonite green? I would also be interested in pre-ordering the powder.

[prickett]

I found that with the liquid, I could mix and leave for 5 minutes then I could use it. With the powder, I found that after mixing, I had to leave it for an hour to fully homogenise before use.

Doh!!

[popper]

No catalyst needed for the powder?

[Gateway Bullets]

No catalyst needed for the powder?

Popper,

None needed at all! It's contained in the powder mix. You just measure out the powder, place it in an approved container, add solvent, shake, and you're good to go! Very very simple to use. Works just like the solvent based coating.

I have to go through my emails and double check all of the colors available. But the best looking to me are the reds and black. But I do also like that zombie killer green!

[Michael J. Spangler]

i've coated a ton of bullets with great success but haven't shot one yet!!! i'm dying to get to the range.
so they work well with 357 loads? i read somewhere in this thread that some people have shot full house 357 with no issues. if thats the case i'll have to PIF my gas checks.

[Ausglock]

Yep. Full house 357magnum loads fired out of lever rifles, revolvers, Conan semiautos, desert eagles. No GC. Just hitek coating.

[Michael J. Spangler]

woohoo! how many coats?

[Ausglock]

Just 2 coats.

[Michael J. Spangler]

can't wait to shoot some of these. i've loaded up about 300 wadcutters and 50 test loads for 40 S&W
some pics of my recent coatings

bag o bullets
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll105/MJSpangler/Grips/630FFA46-B4A1-4AF3-8C04-7E93E7AF7050_zpsbypnwjp1.jpg (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/MJSpangler/media/Grips/630FFA46-B4A1-4AF3-8C04-7E93E7AF7050_zpsbypnwjp1.jpg.html)

401638 in 40S&W
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll105/MJSpangler/Grips/D9031313-7972-46C7-971A-50D655E0FD71_zps3ypjuyfp.jpg (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/MJSpangler/media/Grips/D9031313-7972-46C7-971A-50D655E0FD71_zps3ypjuyfp.jpg.html)

360 round ball, 358495, lee 124 9mm, 401638, 451 round ball (cast about 453 with this alloy. i use it in 45 ACP)
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll105/MJSpangler/Grips/173AC4A9-D10E-4CBD-A259-169CEB931A41_zpsyexdzeom.jpg (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/MJSpangler/media/Grips/173AC4A9-D10E-4CBD-A259-169CEB931A41_zpsyexdzeom.jpg.html)

[Ausglock]

Nice. What mix did you use? They look a bit "rough" in the texture rather than smooth. I got that look when I was testing the powdered coating and mixed it too thick.

[Gateway Bullets]

Nice job Michael! Wanna come work for me? Lol

[Liberty'sSon]

Ok, a few questions/comments.
First, has anyone else noticed that the red copper and the gold look almost identical when they come out of the first cook?
Do we have any idea if there will be a cost savings on the powdered versions if so how much?
Third, I'm still having some issues.
Bought a Ballisticast auto caster. Older 4 mold model. Just doing some test tins while waiting on my FFL. So far my 9mm and 45 molds are both throwing Boolits that are 5 to 6 thousandths over final size through my lee sizing dies. After I coat (passed smash and wipe tests on both coats) the sizing dies are stripping the coating back off of the Boolits. I even used some extreme2 catalyst this time to see if that would help. No go. The same Boolits dry tumbled and baked with Powder by the Pound zombie green powder coat go through the dies and size back down fine, powder coat fully intact. Any ideas guys? I realize that these molds are throwing a bit more oversized than normal not really sure what to do about it though. I thought about coating/sizing/coating, but that adds too much to the cycle time to make it commercially viable and I don't think the second coat will stick once sized as the surface of the lead will be sheared smooth. Short of buying new molds, my only option now seems to be powder coating the Boolits that come out of these molds. I really would rather use Hi Tek because people are more familiar with it.

[Gateway Bullets]

As far as coating, sizing, coating, and sizing again is not a commercially viable option. I know Ausglock has stated before that he will do that on some of his bullets.

The powdered coating should be a little cheaper due to the cheaper shipping. I don't have to pay the hazmat charges etc etc.

Are they new or used dies? Original star dies with the lube holes? I had those for a while and they sucked for use with the Hi-Tek system. They scratched the living snot out of my bullets. I talked to Donnie about the problem and he turned me onto a die maker that made me custom dies. I had him make a few changes to Donnie's original specs. They work great!

[HI-TEK]

Ok, a few questions/comments.
First, has anyone else noticed that the red copper and the gold look almost identical when they come out of the first cook?
Do we have any idea if there will be a cost savings on the powdered versions if so how much?
Third, I'm still having some issues.
Bought a Ballisticast auto caster. Older 4 mold model. Just doing some test tins while waiting on my FFL. So far my 9mm and 45 molds are both throwing Boolits that are 5 to 6 thousandths over final size through my lee sizing dies. After I coat (passed smash and wipe tests on both coats) the sizing dies are stripping the coating back off of the Boolits. I even used some extreme2 catalyst this time to see if that would help. No go. The same Boolits dry tumbled and baked with Powder by the Pound zombie green powder coat go through the dies and size back down fine, powder coat fully intact. Any ideas guys? I realize that these molds are throwing a bit more oversized than normal not really sure what to do about it though. I thought about coating/sizing/coating, but that adds too much to the cycle time to make it commercially viable and I don't think the second coat will stick once sized as the surface of the lead will be sheared smooth. Short of buying new molds, my only option now seems to be powder coating the Boolits that come out of these molds. I really would rather use Hi Tek because people are more familiar with it.

Hi,
My only suggestion at this stage is, that it is quite possible that you may not have adequate cure, or for long enough to fully bond coating to alloy.
From what you are describing, the coating may be over cooked as your observations of both Gold and Copper being the same, seems to be telling me that coating went fairly dark.
Not sure, but photos would tell me a lot more if you can supply please.
I had a local guy, that was sizing down drastically about 6 thou, and had no problems aside from extra hard load on handle of manual sizer, which built up his muscle bulk.
The coating deformed with sizing, and none came off.
He used the 5000 dry lube to aid in reducing sizing loads, and was happy with what he achieved.
Happy to assist if I can.

[Liberty'sSon]

I'm still in trial phase now so I'm using new Lee push thru dies. Cooking at 390f for 10 minutes verified with a lead thermometer, and timed with a timer. Bullets pass wipe and wipe on both coats. I will try some tomorrow thru the star dies on my automated sizing machine to see if it is caused be the Lee dies.

[Ausglock]

size dies with lube holes really suck. I tried using my Lyman 450 as a push through sizer and the coating scraped off.
I now use Lee push through.

I only coat, size, coat. and only for flat base bullets.

[HI-TEK]

size dies with lube holes really suck. I tried using my Lyman 450 as a push through sizer and the coating scraped off.
I now use Lee push through.

I only coat, size, coat. and only for flat base bullets.


If you look at the logic here, any holes in sizing area, upon hydraulic deformation will extrude alloy into areas where there is an opening.
Then, coating attached to alloy, will be shaved off when process of sizing continues..
If you examine shavings, one side is alloy, and other side of the shaving, has coating still attached to alloy.
It is like taking a knife and slicing shavings off alloy.
I may be wrong but this is certainly my suspicion.

[btroj]

I use my regular old Star dies and haven't had any trouble at all.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Ausglock. I used 5-1-5 I think I tumbled a little too long. I'm working on tumbling less to prevent little sticky peaks from forming. Last batches I did I Poured the bullets out to try just a little earlier and it seemed to help. They're pretty smooth, the gold looks very textured in the pictures for some reason.
Gateway how are your health benefits? Hahaha.

[Liberty'sSon]

Guys, I'm not using Star dies, or any dies with lube holes. I'm using brand new Lee push thrus and it's happening on 9mm and 45. I'm pretty confident it's not the dies. What are your opinions on the Boolits being 6 thousandths oversized when cast? Is this normal? I expected 3-4 thou over.

[prickett]

Ok, a few questions/comments.
First, has anyone else noticed that the red copper and the gold look almost identical when they come out of the first cook?


I coat with gold and mine come out looking like red copper too. I attribute it to cooking longer than the recommended time (I normally cook 12-15 minutes). When I cook them for a shorter time, they come out gold.

Frankly, I'm not concerned, as the the "red copper" look is just as attractive as the gold look.

[Gateway Bullets]

Liberty, do you have any pics of the bullets and scratches?

Prickett, I like them both also, but lately I have been using the red copper more. Thinking about stopping the use of gold all together.

[popper]

Spangler - I got the dark green to go ~1200 fps sans GC on a 165 gr in 30/30 with 'decent' accuracy, no leading. Red copper is supposed to be better. IIRC Leadman got ~ 3K in 223, Lino, checked.

[prickett]

Prickett, I like them both also, but lately I have been using the red copper more. Thinking about stopping the use of gold all together.

Is that decision based on anything other than appearance?

[Ausglock]

the gold should be gold after the first bake. reduce you time to 10 minutes at 200Deg C.
remember... if you bake too long, the coating will become brittle.

[Gateway Bullets]

Is that decision based on anything other than appearance?

It's a little of both appearance and performance. I like the looks of the red copper. The red copper is more heat reflective and can be pushed faster than the standard coating. I have guys that shoot a lot of 357-44 magnum, 10mm, along with some pistol rounds in rifles. So I like to coat those in the red copper to make sure they will protect properly.

So if it's a 9,38,45 it's standard black. For the hotter rounds and rifle, it's red copper. Just my little .02 worth.

[Ausglock]

Gateway. You will love the Kryptonite Green. It is the best of both worlds.
The 1035 additive to the blue/green allows it to handle the higher velocity as well as the Zombie killer colour.
The new 424/1035 arrived yesterday. I'm going to mix and coat with this new light, bright green and see how it goes.
Watch this space.....

[Gateway Bullets]

Gateway. You will love the Kryptonite Green. It is the best of both worlds.
The 1035 additive to the blue/green allows it to handle the higher velocity as well as the Zombie killer colour.
The new 424/1035 arrived yesterday. I'm going to mix and coat with this new light, bright green and see how it goes.
Watch this space.....

You sir SUCK!!!! lol lol lol It must be nice to have Hi-Tek so close! Im working with him to get some green1035 and black shipped in powder. He is checking current inventory. But you say a new 424/1035......hummmm......

[Michael J. Spangler]

poppers that good info. thank you. can't wait to try some of these loads! i'm dying for range time

[Liberty'sSon]

Ok, update. I got by my warehouse today and ran some of the 9mm through the auto sizer with Star dies and no scraping. Maybe it I something to o with the Lee dies. I might try them with some case lube. I think I created a new color. The gold and red copper looked so similar to me after the first coat that I think I had them switched on the second coat and ended up coating Boolits once in each color.it made a pretty cool bronze color. I'll see if I can get pics posted but I've had issues in the past.( Im pretty technically illiterate). I've been told photo bucket helps, I may give it a try after dinner.

[Landshark9025]

As someone who is just looking to get into casting, I find this coating, powder coating(which seems more trying) or the 40-40-10 alox seem like the best options for casual pistol practice. Of the three, I like this the best.

I am just in the "research and lead gathering" phase. Reading the "Ingot to target" book as well as Lyman. I have no aspirations that my first casts will be shootable when I do start, but once I get the casting process down, is there any reason not to use this method right from the get go? Shooting revolvers at the range for fun and practice.

Thanks


Great stuff, Gunoil.
I cast and coated a few 100 45 and 9mm bullets yesterday.

I am trying a small sample of the blue/greem coating.
I mixed it 5 parts colour, 7 parts acetone and 1 part catalyst.
This is what they look like after coating the first time and before cooking.
7433074331
This is them after the first cook.
74332
and after the second coating cooked.74333
the 45 SWC don't have coating in the groove or where the nose joins the body of the bullet. HI-TEK Joe said that if the coating is in the groove, you are using too much.

The 45RN microgroove bullets got a first coat of red/copper and the second coat of the blue/green.
They actually came out great. they have a Camo type coating to them.
Camo coating
74345
More Camo coating.
74346
I think that if anyone has question or tips on using the HI-TEK Supercoating, they should ask them on this thread as the other thread is getting a bit long. If that is OK with you Gunoil?
There is the Piglet thread and the powdercoat thread, so hows about keeping this one for the HI-TEK Coating? Thoughts?

Thanks.

[Liberty'sSon]

Ok, I got some pics in photo bucket. Let's see if I can post them. http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/LibertysSon1/th_2d658e8c883fc07cba2f2b7e93d1af5e_zpscef766b9.jp g (http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/LibertysSon1/?action=view&current=2d658e8c883fc07cba2f2b7e93d1af5e_zpscef766 b9.jpg)

These are some I did a while back that had the same problem of the coating being removed during sizing. Everything passed smash and wipe on both coats on all of the pics I'm about to post. The three on the left have the coating so what removed from the bands. It's hard to see in the pic, but it's not simply the bands getting shiny during sizing. The bands have a mottled look with some coating and some shiny lead.
The three on the right are from the same batch but unsized.

[Liberty'sSon]

Up next is a pic of what happens when you coat with one coat of gold and one of red copper. It's a pretty cool bronze color. I think I may do more of these.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/LibertysSon1/9ec0f4ce78b185ec3028352eb2fd89df_zps90c664a2.jpg
Next are some loaded rounds.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/LibertysSon1/a9caa45aeb5aec17372fbb922e19315b_zps2233e4b0.jpg
Next are some more unloaded rounds
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/LibertysSon1/3e95622a01f2085ebdc629da83d09d57_zps65a40d4f.jpg
Next are the two colors gold and copper red after one coat cooked, wiped and smashed
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/LibertysSon1/78160b7a7cd44c6118b3b36a7a12a6b0_zpsee729eac.jpg
Up next are some of the bronze(red copper and gold) that have been twice coated, and baked, passed smash and wipe between both coats, then run thru the Lee sizer.
It's hard to tell from these pics but a good bit of the coating is removed from the drive bands as noted by the shiny areas. The worst is the one on the right.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/LibertysSon1/e197d642be0b8593c0f5aa809f8d5526_zps964df950.jpg
Maybe that's enough for you guys to tell what I'm talking about. Thanks for your input.

[Ausglock]

If you like the bronze colour, HITEK makes a glitter bronze. It coats great and is metallic so it is good for hi velocity.

[Liberty'sSon]

Ausglock, I haven't heard of the bronze color. It may not be avaiable in the US yet. Until then I may keep doing one coat each, gold and red copper.

[jimbo1950]

A few questions that i have not seen in this thread yet. I am using red copper and am mixing at 5/1/7 and have noticed the when baking the color will change and will smoke slighty at a 375 oven. IN the directions it states the bullets must reach 365 for 25 to 30 seconds.
When i they change color and smoke is the coating cured at that point? Bulet tem when checked is at or above 365 degrees. Any thoughts?

[Ausglock]

The smoke is the catalyst cooking off. Leave them for the full 10 minutes to cook.

[dverna]

As someone who is just looking to get into casting, I find this coating, powder coating(which seems more trying) or the 40-40-10 alox seem like the best options for casual pistol practice. Of the three, I like this the best.

I am just in the "research and lead gathering" phase. Reading the "Ingot to target" book as well as Lyman. I have no aspirations that my first casts will be shootable when I do start, but once I get the casting process down, is there any reason not to use this method right from the get go? Shooting revolvers at the range for fun and practice.

Thanks


Go to:

http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=31

Lars, sells 32 oz of 45/45/10 for $15. It will work, requires no investment in ovens/guns and will last you a long time.

I you are going to shoot a lot, or have issues with leading (new casters seem to have the most issues with 9mm's and .40's - read the stickies or so a search), then the Hi-Tek product is excellent for pistol bullets. Be aware you may need two or three coats for these calibers.

Don Verna

[Gateway Bullets]

Liberty,

Your last pics of the scratches looks like the pic has been altered with photo shop. (No offense intended)I have never seen a scratch that had a white area around it with a black center. Lead is shiny when scratched and the bullet goes straight from the color of the coating to a bright streak.

Maybe it's just my computer screen. If that's the case then I apologize profusely!

[Ausglock]

I really feel that they have been Wayyyyyyyy over cooked. Gold looks nothing like red/copper unless it has been over cooked. The coating coming off is probably due to the over cooked coating being very brittle and not deforming with the lead when size and thus is being removed during sizing.
Check your temp and time. Lead thermometers are not accurate enough for this. get a digi thermometer with remote sensors and put them in your oven.

The infared ones are not real good either.

[Liberty'sSon]

Liberty,

Your last pics of the scratches looks like the pic has been altered with photo shop. (No offense intended)I have never seen a scratch that had a white area around it with a black center. Lead is shiny when scratched and the bullet goes straight from the color of the coating to a bright streak.

Maybe it's just my computer screen. If that's the case then I apologize profusely!

Pics taken with an iPad. No photoshop. I've never used it wouldn't really know how. Shiny areas are where coating is being removed and lead is being sheared causing a shine. When I say removed, I don't mean totally removed, you can still see some coating on the bands it just spotty like it stayed in some low spot or pores in the alloy. I tried loading some and they leaded the barrel. Surprise huh. As far as temp and color goes, I'll look into getting some kind of digital therm, but the oven and lead therm are fairly close to one another (lead therm reads 395 when oven is set to 380) so I don't think I'm crazy high on temp. Everything passed the smash and wipe. I got a chance to shoot the ones that I was able to get sized through a star die that didn't remove the coating like the Lee did. Everything fed fine. I'll be cleaning the gun later this evening so I'll see what it looks like and update.

[Liberty'sSon]

Ok, got the gun cleaned. I thought everything went well. The gun had about 120 rounds of jacketed through it from a match before I shot it today. I shot about 80 rounds of a mixture of Hi Tek coated and some dry tumble PC Boolits. I know it's kind of a mishmash of rounds, but seeing as there were no problems I think it's safe to say all three worked well.
First two pics are of the barrel from each end before cleaning.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/LibertysSon1/4fc5dbc58e5865253de8c1fba1aef359_zps117d5a5d.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/LibertysSon1/7ffdcdbcab91f3376583324730d8e794_zps6692d4ff.jpg
Not the greatest pics but it's about the best I could get with the iPad.
Next is a pic of the cleaning patches that I wrapped around the brush. They start at the top left and alternate between a dry patch and a patch with Frog Lube on it. Pretty much looks like powder residue. The green you see is not from the PC, the Frog Lube is green.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/LibertysSon1/00a6a7ad34555756ac44aafd0291b73c_zpsa79de77a.jpg
The last two pics are the cleaned barrel from both ends
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/LibertysSon1/48998c9324452074baedf0f20291d8ab_zps7f163617.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/LibertysSon1/966f46139b0740f866e576890f2215fd_zpsf81047f6.jpg

[Gateway Bullets]

Liberty

Ok now you've done it! I will have to report you to Glock due to warranty violations! Lol lol lol

Glad you got to shoot them and all worked out well! Keep up the good work! I'm also with Ausglock and think you're baking them to long.

[prickett]

Go to:

http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=31

Lars, sells 32 oz of 45/45/10 for $15. It will work, requires no investment in ovens/guns and will last you a long time.

I you are going to shoot a lot, or have issues with leading (new casters seem to have the most issues with 9mm's and .40's - read the stickies or so a search), then the Hi-Tek product is excellent for pistol bullets. Be aware you may need two or three coats for these calibers.

Don Verna

Be aware that LLA may be suitable for only low pressure loads. It worked in my .45's, but leaded like crazy in my 9mm's. I'd advise skipping the LLA and going the powder coat or HI-TEK route. You'll most likely end up there anyway, so why not cut to the chase :-)

[Liberty'sSon]

Liberty

Ok now you've done it! I will have to report you to Glock due to warranty violations! Lol lol lol

Glad you got to shoot them and all worked out well! Keep up the good work! I'm also with Ausglock and think you're baking them to long.


Warranty? We don't need no stinking warranty. ;)
I'm pretty sure it's just the mixture of the two colors. As far as temp and time goes, I preheated the oven empty, added the trays of Boolits, watched it till the lead therm inside the oven reached 390F again( approx 2-3 min) started timer set for 10 minutes, removed from oven at 10 minutes. I didn't sit with it the entire 10 min ( doing other things in the garage) but I did check once or twice during each bake, temp maxed out a 400F on the lead therm. I have a second lead therm, I may add that the next time I bake. As far as the color goes, I like it, and since it passed the smash and wipe tests and performed well in the gun I think I'm gonna keep doing one coat of each. Btw the most accurate round I had was one of my powder coated rounds, however it was the one batch that was seated out about 5-6 thousandths longer than the other batches. Next time I will try some Hi Tek Boolits at the longer length. Man I wish I lived closer to the range.

[HI-TEK]

Warranty? We don't need no stinking warranty. ;)
I'm pretty sure it's just the mixture of the two colors. As far as temp and time goes, I preheated the oven empty, added the trays of Boolits, watched it till the lead therm inside the oven reached 390F again( approx 2-3 min) started timer set for 10 minutes, removed from oven at 10 minutes. I didn't sit with it the entire 10 min ( doing other things in the garage) but I did check once or twice during each bake, temp maxed out a 400F on the lead therm. I have a second lead therm, I may add that the next time I bake. As far as the color goes, I like it, and since it passed the smash and wipe tests and performed well in the gun I think I'm gonna keep doing one coat of each. Btw the most accurate round I had was one of my powder coated rounds, however it was the one batch that was seated out about 5-6 thousandths longer than the other batches. Next time I will try some Hi Tek Boolits at the longer length. Man I wish I lived closer to the range.

Thanks for your report.
I also think that you are baking a little too long.
Mixture of Gold and Copper colors should not end up brown looking.
The brown coloration is coming from coating turning dark after excessive heating.
I noticed, that you had a hot oven, placed into it projectiles, and waited until temperature went back to 390F (3 minutes), and after that, you then started timer for 10 minutes.
That is a total of 13 minutes of having coated projectiles inside your oven.
Please check things again.
I am sure that most are cooking for 10 minutes after placing a tray into a well air circulated oven.

[Ausglock]

yep. I agree.
Once the oven reached temp, open the door, insert tray of bullets, close door. Now start your 10 minute timer. You were over baking by waiting for the temp to reach with the bullets in the oven.

10 minutes is all you need from go to whoa.

[Ausglock]

Well. HI-TEK joe has done it this time. The 424+1035 has produced a light green that is almost the Fluro green of Zombie ammo. I'll put up a few photos later on.

[Liberty'sSon]

Ok Joe needs to make one so bright you can watch it go down range like a tracer.

[Gateway Bullets]

Ok Joe needs to make one so bright you can watch it go down range like a tracer.

I tried to talk him into a glow in the dark tracer round for the upcoming zombie apocalypse...... That went over like a lead balloon!!!! lol

Trev, I kinda like them all! Im between the 424 and the blue/green+1035

[jcobb651]

Well. HI-TEK joe has done it this time. The 424+1035 has produced a light green that is almost the Fluro green of Zombie ammo. I'll put up a few photos later on.

Come on! Lets have the pics already! LOL!

[Liberty'sSon]

Come on! Lets have the pics already! LOL!

Yeah, you know the rule Trevor. If there aren't any pics, it didn't happen.

[HI-TEK]

Yeah, you know the rule Trevor. If there aren't any pics, it didn't happen.

For all who are interested, I beat Trevor to the punch...lol
I will post his pictures.
Left 3 are 424 2x version.
Next 3 are 424+1035.
Next 3 are blue/ green+1035.
96024Last 3 are 424 /1035+ 6mls of blue/green green. All smash and wipe fine.

[Ausglock]

The blue/green + 1035 is the colour I'm using for all my bullets.
It coats great and can take velocities to 2000fps with ease.
I'm loading some 424+1035 now to shoot tomorrow in the Kimber 38 Super.
The photo is reasonably close to the actual colour. maybe a bit washed out. But you get the drift of it.
This is 2 coats.

[Liberty'sSon]

The blue/green + 1035 is the colour I'm using for all my bullets.
It coats great and can take velocities to 2000fps with ease.
I'm loading some 424+1035 now to shoot tomorrow in the Kimber 38 Super.
The photo is reasonably close to the actual colour. maybe a bit washed out. But you get the drift of it.
This is 2 coats.

I like em all, but that424+1035 really trips my trigger. Hint for Joe, let Trevor help you with some names besides the number. Of douse you will have to sanitize Trevs names but you get the drift?
When can we expect these in the states, and are they part of the powdered line?

[HI-TEK]

I like em all, but that424+1035 really trips my trigger. Hint for Joe, let Trevor help you with some names besides the number. Of douse you will have to sanitize Trevs names but you get the drift?
When can we expect these in the states, and are they part of the powdered line?



These are so new, that all we can refer to is experimental code numbers which refer back to the recipe.
Trevor has his own ideas about his colouful naming.
Love it...lol.
The 424/1035 grade, will be available in powder form in commercial volumes.
I have been making some progress with US importers, about possibility of having materials there, but it will take some time.
At minimum, for me to get set up, we need to buy equipment to process these materials.
Also, we have to then commit to raw material stocks, which can take 6-8 weeks to get.
At best, it is indicating 3-6 months for stock in the USA
Please be patient, as it will happen.
Thanks much for your continued interest.

[Ausglock]

Little Lib.
The blue/green +1035 is named Kryptonite Green.
The 424 + 1035... I'm thinking Slayer Green? Zombie Green? Eco Green? Light Green? Fluro Green? Lansdowne Green?
Alien's Blood? Snot Green?
Your turn Little Lib, what do you think would be good for a name?
Who ever come up with the name for this colour (winner picked by HI-TEK Joe) gets a free sample of the powdered coating in this colour.:drinks::twisted::popcorn::bigsmyl2:

[Gremlin460]

80 rounds of 2x glitter gold went down range this morning, powered by 4.2gn AP70N Powder.
Cast was from Lee 6x 125 mold with lube grooves removed, they weigh in at 128gn. Rn water dropped form WW. These were followed by 30 125 HP from Mihec mold, also with lube groves removed, again powered by 4.2gn AP70N powder. (almost identical the Hogden Universal).
Accuracy was large ragged hole in 9's & 10 at 10yard line.
last 9 shots were used to remove 4 wooden pegs holding target onto base board.

Barrel was cleaned before shoot and took 2 in/out passes with brass brush, followed by 3 dry patches, barrel spotless clean again.
No,Zero nil leading after 110 rounds.
Joe any blue/green+1035 available??
(I suggest SCYTHE Green as it will cut anything down and looks deadly)
96031

[leadman]

Liberty's son, I have found the recent Lee push thru die are very rough inside. I was having the same problem with scraped coating and also noticed a different sound when sizing. I thought the dies might be dirty so cleaned them then discovered the roughness.
I used a rod with a split on the end in my cordless drill with a folded piece of 1000 grit emery paper in it and polished the inside. Be careful in the area that actually does the sizing so you don't enlarge it. There is a taper at the bottom that is the roughest area that needs to be polished. I lubed the inside of the die after cleaning with RCBS case lube and also lube the boolits depending on how much sizing they need.

[leadman]

I am doing an experiment with my 22 cal Bator boolits to try to improve the accuracy at 3,600+ fps. I added a dipper of military grade moly to the Red Copper mix with 2Extreme catalyst to see what happens. Should be able to load ammo Monday and hit the range Wednesday. I tried a smash test and it looked good.
Has anyone else tried something like this?

[Liberty'sSon]

Liberty's son, I have found the recent Lee push thru die are very rough inside. I was having the same problem with scraped coating and also noticed a different sound when sizing. I thought the dies might be dirty so cleaned them then discovered the roughness.
I used a rod with a split on the end in my cordless drill with a folded piece of 1000 grit emery paper in it and polished the inside. Be careful in the area that actually does the sizing so you don't enlarge it. There is a taper at the bottom that is the roughest area that needs to be polished. I
lubed the inside of the die after cleaning with RCBS case lube and also lube the boolits depending on how much sizing they need.

Thanks Leadman, I'll give that a try. Why didn't I think of that? :)

[Liberty'sSon]

Trev, I've got to do a work day at the range today. I'll take a stab at some names when I get back.

[Liberty'sSon]

Ok I'm back. Let's see, Slime Lime, Booger Green, Puss Green, Zombie Killer Green,Treehugger Green, Donnie M already uses Gator Snot so that one is taken, Emerald Green, Jade Green, Pine Green, Evergreen, GreenBay Green, Green Wave Green.

[Ausglock]

Slime Lime...I like it.....

[gunoil]

1100 hi-tek boolits thru my taurus TCP, (flawless) barrel looks new or maybe better than new. l run a ruger LCP barrel in my TCP. I run (lil' longer) a SS ruger fire pin. l use RTK trigger w/light hammer spring from gallowayprecision. Traction grips and 8 rnds floor plate. Wolff 13 lb recoil springs. Militec-1 oil from ebay. Militec-1 grease from ebay. Its a D model w/ss slide. I have a modified hammer catch and it is a great 380. Modified cross-pin spring. My idea.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zpsf322bcd3.jpg

[HI-TEK]

80 rounds of 2x glitter gold went down range this morning, powered by 4.2gn AP70N Powder.
Cast was from Lee 6x 125 mold with lube grooves removed, they weigh in at 128gn. Rn water dropped form WW. These were followed by 30 125 HP from Mihec mold, also with lube groves removed, again powered by 4.2gn AP70N powder. (almost identical the Hogden Universal).
Accuracy was large ragged hole in 9's & 10 at 10yard line.
last 9 shots were used to remove 4 wooden pegs holding target onto base board.

Barrel was cleaned before shoot and took 2 in/out passes with brass brush, followed by 3 dry patches, barrel spotless clean again.
No,Zero nil leading after 110 rounds.
Joe any blue/green+1035 available??
(I suggest SCYTHE Green as it will cut anything down and looks deadly)
96031

Great results. Thanks for posting.
Scythe Green is a deadly name.
Yes I do have some Blue/Green 1035. Please contact me with PM so we can arrange things

[Ausglock]

fired 100 rounds of 150gr bullets coated with the 424/1035 today in the Kimber 38 Super.
Was shooting standard exercises as practice for IPSC upcoming match.
They shot great with zero leading and the barrel was shiny clean afterwards.

[jcobb651]

Fired about 100 today through my Springfield. A mixture of 200 grain RNFP coated 3 times and 230 grain HP coated twice. The 230 were a mix of Titegroup, W231, and Unique powders, half sized .451 half sized .452. Trying to see if the different sized boolits affected leading or accuracy. Neither one leaded and accuracy was about the same....451 maybe a tad better but nothing drastic. I had just cleaned the gun last night and lubes with frog lube. Here is the barrel after shooting today. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/10/u3uruquq.jpg

One dry patch through the barrel...http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/10/5esujagu.jpg

One dry patch wrapped in copper strands through the barrell removed this residue....http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/10/6ymu6aru.jpg
Maybe burnt powder?

A wet patch with CLP Break free and one pull of a bore snake viper and the barrell is better than new.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/10/abyvatu5.jpg

I love this stuff! Now if Gateway Bullets can just get some powdered coating in lol!

[Gremlin460]

On Sunday I checked all cases prior to recycling and found that 4.2gn of AP70N is running hot in the gun. There is cratering on all primers. I have dialled the powder down to 3.6 and will try again next range session.
So even when loaded hot I had no issues with coating and/or lead fouling. No tumbling at target either.
Hoping that the reduced load will close the moa a bit more.

Pic of the cratering found on Sunday......

http://s881.photobucket.com/user/Gremlin460/media/IMAG0370_zps359e0766.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

Although they did this the edges of the primers are still rounded, so not extreme pressure, the pin hole in the gun has a fair sized taper around it so I was really not overtly surprised at this. :Fire:

Joe will do , probably late this week or early next week.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Coated about 350 or so 40 tonight. Cast another 350 or so to be coated next time.
I've been coating 3 times. I figure it can't hurt. Am I being paranoid about needing 3 coats in 40 cal or should I do it for the heck of it.

I figure it only takes about a tablespoon to do one coat on 400. Why not have an extra coat and be safe right?

Ahhh I need to cast more and coat more!

[Ausglock]

Grem. That is not a hot load. Your primers are typical for beretta 92.
4.2 AP-70 is a medium load and goes about 133 power factor with a125gn pill.

[Liberty'sSon]

Liberty's son, I have found the recent Lee push thru die are very rough inside. I was having the same problem with scraped coating and also noticed a different sound when sizing. I thought the dies might be dirty so cleaned them then discovered the roughness.
I used a rod with a split on the end in my cordless drill with a folded piece of 1000 grit emery
paper in it and polished the inside. Be careful in the area that actually does the sizing so you don't enlarge it. There is a taper at the bottom that is the roughest area that needs to be polished. I lubed the inside of the die after cleaning with RCBS case lube and also lube the boolits depending on how much sizing they need.

Worked like a charm Leadman. Polished and opened up my .356 to .3565 and my .451 to .452. Boolits slip right through, no coating shaving, sized nicely, all is right in my world of Boolit sizing.
Thanks for your help. Man, this is a great forum.

[Gremlin460]

Grem. That is not a hot load. Your primers are typical for beretta 92.
4.2 AP-70 is a medium load and goes about 133 power factor with a125gn pill.

Bugger, you mean I pulled the other 80 and re-powdered for nothing!. Thanks Trev, I have had trouble getting data for AP70, even off the ADI site. AP70 is hard to get now, so I am moving to AP50N for the forseable future. It wont take long to redo these back to 4.2 and run the rest of the measure dry before moving to the AP50.
I have shot some that a friend loaded while I was waiting for the Xl650 to arrive, so I know 3.2 AP50 performs well in my pistol.
Thanks again Trev...

[ayc2006]

Where can I get it in the US?

Jason

[jcobb651]

Bayou Bullets and Gateway Bullets both have it.

[ayc2006]

Thanks

[Moonman]

I've been indoor shooting 38 Specials in several revolvers.

148 Grain Double Ended Wad-Cutters, 148 Grain Button Nosed Wad-Cutters,

158 Grain Semi Wad-Cutters, all over 2.65-2.70 Grains of BULLEYE powder.

Starline Brass, Federal Small Primers loaded to crimp groove complete the load.

Coated with GOLD COLOR from Bayou Bullets. (5 COLOR/1 CATALYST/7 ACETONE MIX)

Most shooting is done at closer DEFENSIVE RANGES (My Thing).

I coated twice and sized, in the future, I'm going to coat, bake, size,

THEN COAT again as Ausglock has advised. WAY TOO COLD FOR ME TO CAST/COAT PRESENTLY.

Barrels look good, low smoke, NO MESSY LUBE, SURE WORKS FOR ME.

I look forward to whenever the DRY COATINGS may finally reach the USA Marketplace.

[Gateway Bullets]

Trevor,

A free drop bear with each liter of coating? lol lol lol PM me your phone and I will give ya a call Tuesday night (US time).

[Liberty'sSon]

BTW, in addition to polishing the sizing dies, I changed my cook time to 10 minutes from go to whoa as you suggested Ausglock. All is well. Thanks for the help.

[Liberty'sSon]

Gateway, don't give Trevor any ideas. We don't need another invasive species. Drop bears would make kudzu look like nothing.

[Gateway Bullets]

Gateway, don't give Trevor any ideas. We don't need another invasive species. Drop bears would make kudzu look like nothing.

Oh come on, what could it hurt? I promise not to feed it after midnight or get it wet! lol lol lol

[Ausglock]

BTW, in addition to polishing the sizing dies, I changed my cook time to 10 minutes from go to whoa as you suggested Ausglock. All is well. Thanks for the help.

No worries. Glad to be of service.

Gateway. Will do.
HI-TEK Joe is breeding the drop bears at his place. The only thing they are scared of are Donkeys. For some reason, the ears of the Donkeys send them into hiding up in the trees and attics.

[popper]

HiTek what is shelf life of the powder version & can it be dry coated like PC? aKa is it polar?

[Gremlin460]

Oh come on, what could it hurt? I promise not to feed it after midnight or get it wet! lol lol lol

Well dear sir, you catch the bloody thing , cause I sure aint going near it!!

[Moonman]

popper,

Gateway Bullets says the powder contains both the COLOR and CATALYST,

You add only the ACETONE, mix and apply.

He also states that HI-TEK Joe is in the process of

RAMPING UP PRODUCTION TO COMMERCIAL AMOUNTS.

[Gateway Bullets]

Moonman,

He is ramping up production based on commercial interest. He is still 3 plus months away or more before commercial quantities are available. Hi-Tek is now stating that the coating in powdered form, may be available in all catalyst.

And yes you only need to mix the powdered coating 1 tablespoon with 100 ml of acetone, shake, and then coat as normal.

[btroj]

That powder will be awesome. Easy to mix and use, cheaper to ship.

I don't see a downside at all.

[Gateway Bullets]

That powder will be awesome. Easy to mix and use, cheaper to ship.

I don't see a downside at all.

I agree 98%.... The shipping will still take 3 months on the slow boat from down under!

[btroj]

Boat probably stops in NZ for a beer.......

[Ausglock]

or to pester the sheep :-)

[btroj]

or to pester the sheep :-)

They miss home?

[John Argent]

Hey Ausglock, first thanks for all of your research and help that you have provided everyone, and my suggestion for a name I like Wallaby Snot

[prickett]

We can't wait 3 to 6 months! We need the powder NOW!!!!

I can't wait, it sounds like it'll rock.

[btroj]

I gotta ask....

Other than appearance is there any real advantage to one color over another? I understand that the metallics have more solids but other than that does it matter?

Just asking

[Ausglock]

The powder is easier to mix. But it still coats just like the liquid coating. I prefer the liquid.

[Gremlin460]

While cleaning up the reloading area waiting for the oven to heat up, I came across the Lee powder Die that comes with the delux pistol set. As I bought a Dillion press, it already has a powder Die.
I seemed a shame to toss it out, its shiney, I collect Shiney.
So, looking at the empty station I had a thought, I stripped it apart and tossed away the powder funnel bit (it wasent shiney) and stuck a piece of bar aluminium in the lathe and made a solid plug the fits inside the die, the top nut for the funnel was retained, but turned down in height.
I then drilled a 4mm hole through the center of the plug and fitted a long bolt with a brass bobbin on the bottom. VIOLA!! instant powder checker die.
Now just got to make a little tag as a marker for when the rod lifts indicating powder level.

Can get pics if anyone is interested in making one... sorry its off topic, but I did mention Oven at the start.

[kweidner]

I gotta ask....

Other than appearance is there any real advantage to one color over another? I understand that the metallics have more solids but other than that does it matter?

Just asking

I have found in my experience the gold is a bit tougher than black and red. I use gold for 9mm, 40, and my magnums because of this and use the red and black for 38, 45, and .380.

[Ausglock]

Grem. Don't ya love having a lathe, mill, mig, tig,Plasma?

[HI-TEK]

I have found in my experience the gold is a bit tougher than black and red. I use gold for 9mm, 40, and my magnums because of this and use the red and black for 38, 45, and .380.

You are correct, Gold varieties, and other "metallic varieties" (including Red Copper, Bronze, Natural), all are slightly more durable and tougher that plain coloured systems.
They also reflect heat better than plain non metallic coloured coatings.
However, using plain non coloured coatings, have worked with many applications where user did not require pigmentation or colour on their alloy.
I am surprised about your finding the Black being not so tough.
That also has materials that reinforce coating film.
It is hoped that you are getting satisfactory results.

[Gateway Bullets]

The powder is easier to mix. But it still coats just like the liquid coating. I prefer the liquid.

Trev,

You prefer the liquid over the powder? I'm surprised! I like the ease of mixing the powder and only having to add acetone.

[kweidner]

the Black works fine. I have had it work in my 9 and .40 but I am sizing to run in many platforms and in many different weapons. Because of this, I size to nominal cast size diameters. As an example my 9mm (sw MP9c ) works very well with the black sized at .358 but not so much with .357 as it leads just a tiny bit. Gold does just fine at any diameter and there is no leading. Not all 9mm platforms will chamber with a .358 so I make them nominal and gold. If I were individually casting for just that 9, black and .358 it would be as I like the looks of the black a bit more. Either way HT is awesome stuff. I just ran 4000 .380's this week for a customer in the black. (loaded ammo). Yes I do have a type 6 so no ATF comments please. Joe you keep makin it and we'll keep buying it. Just wished you lived closer :grin:

[jakec]

i love this stuff! ive only used the green so far but its great. im gonna try the black and maybe the extreme catalyst.

[kweidner]

i love this stuff! ive only used the green so far but its great. im gonna try the black and maybe the extreme catalyst.

Ausglock advised extreme catalysts and black don't get along.

[prickett]

The powder is easier to mix. But it still coats just like the liquid coating. I prefer the liquid.

What makes you prefer the liquid? Inquiring minds (who are chomping at the bit to get the powder) want to know!

[gunoil]

Iam switching to bright colors so when l drop em on the carpet l can see em. Red gold glow-n-the-dark.

Snowed in a lil', ausglocks in east aussie land warm.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zpsf5c05bb0.png

[Ausglock]

Don't get me wrong. The powder is easier to use than the liquid. But, for me, playing with mixing different colours to see what happens is easier with the liquid.

I also play with the amount of catalyst used.
As they say....failure promotes success. So I like to push the bounds of the HI-TEK mix ratios.

For everyday use, the powder wins.

Black and Extreme Cat had issues at 200 Deg C for 10 minutes. But increase the time to 12 minutes and no problems.

[Ausglock]

Iam switching to bright colors so when l drop em on the carpet l can see em. Red gold glow-n-the-dark.

Snowed in a lil', ausglocks in east aussie land warm.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zpsf5c05bb0.png

I've never seen snow. we had 37 deg C yesterday. it was even too hot to cast/coat when I got home from work at 5pm.

[Gateway Bullets]

Youve never seen snow???? I HAVE SEEN WAY TOOOOOOOO MUCH THIS WINTER!!!!!! If I could pack the @#$%$* up and ship it to you I would in a heartbeat!!!!!

[Gremlin460]

Grem. Don't ya love having a lathe, mill, mig, tig,Plasma?

Cant live without them! I still hunting for a s/h mill though.

[prickett]

I've never seen snow. we had 37 deg C yesterday. it was even too hot to cast/coat when I got home from work at 5pm.

I'll trade you a box of snow for a box of powdered HI-TEK :-)

[Liberty'sSon]

I'll trade you a box of snow for a box of powdered HI-TEK :-)
Good trade there Prickett. Ill pay half the shipping if you split your haul with me.;)

[Ausglock]

HI-TEK is loosing his mind.
He thought he sent me a few new powder samples. he didn't.

I have some old ones here. You blokes are welcome to come collect them anytime you like.

Reds, Gold, black, Bronze, green. Only a tablespoon of powder removed from them.

Drop bears do not like snow.

[Gateway Bullets]

I think he has been sniffing the fumes again! lol..... send me the green!!!

[HI-TEK]

I think he has been sniffing the fumes again! lol..... send me the green!!!

Fumes ????
It is fine Bourbon, and nearly out of stock...lol..lol

[220]

east aussie land warm.
Depends on where in east Aus you are, I'm further south and inland than Ausclock, 8 days over 100 so far this month and average temp for the month is 99.68, last month we had 11 days over 100 so 19 days over 100 so far this year.
Was 97 at 6pm one evening in Oct, we got hit with a cold front the following afternoon and got snow.

[gunoil]

We had those temps here few years back, not good.

[leadman]

I had to turn the fan on and open the garage door today while casting. Caught on the news we had record heat but did not catch the temperature. Was supposed to get to 88 degrees F though.
I broke down the other day and bought a Stag Arms left hand AR15. Don't know why but I did! LOL. Now I can play with two 223 Rem rifles.
Been sick with the crud that has been going around and hope to get my ammo loaded this weekend, right after I replace the a/c hoses on my Dakota. Looks like it is going to be an early summer.
You guys east of me stay warm! Or come out here for shooting.

[Gremlin460]

Tipped 38c here today, was nasty in the sun. Had to change out wifes tailgate on her station wagon, stone from the ride-on mower nailed it almost dead centre..
Thankfully she was mowing.

Why would I let the missus mow?? I hear you all ask, easy I was busy reloading :)

[Shotgundrums]

HI-TEK is loosing his mind.
He thought he sent me a few new powder samples. he didn't.

I have some old ones here. You blokes are welcome to come collect them anytime you like.

Reds, Gold, black, Bronze, green. Only a tablespoon of powder removed from them.

Drop bears do not like snow.

It's been a while:) I want some of this powdered version you all speak of. I still haven't tried anything other than green though. Perhaps gold or red copper...what ever happened to DDR lol? After I finally figuring out the oven, coating is tougher than I had expected.
Any new hitek flavor a on the US side yet?
Josh

[Ausglock]

DDR is alive and well. Keep an eye out for the new zombie green powder.

[Beagle333]

DDR is alive and well. Keep an eye out for the new zombie green powder.

I am all about this! :-D

[HI-TEK]

I am all about this! :-D

Just a couple of pictures to see what was being made9713397134

[Beagle333]

My new triple-tray convection oven is gonna love those! :bigsmyl2:

[Gateway Bullets]

It's been a while:) I want some of this powdered version you all speak of. I still haven't tried anything other than green though. Perhaps gold or red copper...what ever happened to DDR lol? After I finally figuring out the oven, coating is tougher than I had expected.
Any new hitek flavor a on the US side yet?
Josh

Josh,

Good talking to ya today. I hope your problem is now solved! Its all in the oven and temp control! I will have your samples out in the next day or two.

[Shotgundrums]

Josh,

Good talking to ya today. I hope your problem is now solved! Its all in the oven and temp control! I will have your samples out in the next day or two.
Thanks so much sir!! It was great talkin to you too! Yeah, it's definately the oven. Today I tried it again and temp got up to 390...and then kept creeping up...and this was after a 25 min warm up. I'm sick of this thing. The oven has produced good bullets before. It does what it wants.. ***
Anyway, I did look in to that PID thing...way the hell over my head. At this point I'll just have to figure out another oven arrangement at some point. Hopefully without breaking the bank:)

[Ausglock]

PID is easy to make. all the bits are available on ebay.
Just a matter of hooking into your heating element.
I built a double PID for my melting pots.

If a new oven is easier, remember... buy once, cry once. Get the Breville smart oven.

[HI-TEK]

It's been a while:) I want some of this powdered version you all speak of. I still haven't tried anything other than green though. Perhaps gold or red copper...what ever happened to DDR lol? After I finally figuring out the oven, coating is tougher than I had expected.
Any new hitek flavor a on the US side yet?
Josh


Just to tempt you, attached is DDR Red.
None in US as yet, but that may change.
It is envisaged that this colour may be also available in Powdered version as well.
Had not much interest so far.97164

[Shotgundrums]

I really don't want to buy another. I've seen on many of websites where you can buy a PID for quite inexpensive. I wouldn't know one from the other lol. Haven't had too much electronics training, so a lot of it eludes me. But, that small oster oven can't be that complex. I did see those Brevilles though. Around the $200+ range. We shall see.

[Shotgundrums]

Hitek, that color is awesome!! Such a nice, even, metallic color. I like it!! I'm interested at least. That zombie green looks sick too!! I'm so mad at my oven right now:???:

[Moonman]

The Breville SMART CONVECTION OVEN BOV800XL $250 List in USA.

Mine works really great, the heats consistent AND CORRECT within a few degrees.

I ran mine with a few different thermometers from OVEN to DIGITAL PROBE to

check it, very close with all readings.

[Shotgundrums]

The Breville SMART CONVECTION OVEN BVO800XL $250 List in USA.

Mine works really great, the heats consistent AND CORRECT within a few degrees.

I ran mine with a few different thermometers from OVEN to DIGITAL PROBE tom

check it, very close with all readings.
Yup, that's the one I was looking at lol aaahhhrrrr $$$
But like Trev said, "buy once cry once"

[Shotgundrums]

The Breville SMART CONVECTION OVEN BVO800XL $250 List in USA.

Mine works really great, the heats consistent AND CORRECT within a few degrees.

I ran mine with a few different thermometers from OVEN to DIGITAL PROBE tom

check it, very close with all readings.
Yup, that's the one I was looking at lol aaahhhrrrr $$$
But like Trev said, "buy once cry once"

[Moonman]

You may BUY ONCE CRY ONCE, but the Breville SMART CONVECTION oven

just plain works for SETTING/HOLDING the baking heat for the COATED BULLETS PROCESS.

[Gateway Bullets]

Just to tempt you, attached is DDR Red.
None in US as yet, but that may change.
It is envisaged that this colour may be also available in Powdered version as well.
Had not much interest so far.97164

Hi-Tek you are officially banned from this web site until I get my green! No more posting pics of the "new improved" colors! lol lol lol

[Shotgundrums]

What's the part/model number for the one you have?

[Ausglock]

Gateway... So... you don't want to see the new Black Gold?

The 424/1035 was tried at a higher concentration (5-1-5). Coverage is better and the coating is less "see through", but still a nice light Zombie Green.

[Moonman]

shotgundrums,

My BREVILLE "SMART" convection oven is a BOV800XL model

(I corrected my previous post of BVO to BOV transposed)

(My manual has written on the bottom BOV800XL /A)

Was $250 at Bed/Bath/Beyond in USA.

[Shotgundrums]

shotgundrums,

My BREVILLE "SMART" convection oven is a BOV800XL model

(I corrected my previous post of BVO to BOV transposed)

(My manual has written on the bottom BOV800XL /A)

Was $250 at Bed/Bath/Beyond in USA.
Alrighty cool thank you!!

[Shotgundrums]

I picked up my small oven and it's has a thermocouple style probe at the top right corner. Never noticed it until I removed the outer oven shell and had it upside down. Has two wires running from it to a plug at the control card. When I ran the oven with the shell off the temp got even hotter before cycling off. Makes sense because now it's less insulated, right. If I insulate this more and with the shell on, or possibly move the probe to a more central location instead of just on the skin....hmmm

[Moonman]

Shotgundrums,

The SMART oven has ZONES that it MANIPULATES.

The HEAT COILS are like Pulsating.

Try your experiment first

[Shotgundrums]

Moon an how long you had your smart oven? You use it pretty frequently?

[zomby woof]

shotgundrums,

My BREVILLE "SMART" convection oven is a BOV800XL model

(I corrected my previous post of BVO to BOV transposed)

(My manual has written on the bottom BOV800XL /A)

Was $250 at Bed/Bath/Beyond in USA.

I got my Breville 800 for Christmas. It's too cold here to cure boolits. I've use it to melt lube in the basement. It is very nice. Can't wait until it warms up.

[Gateway Bullets]

Gateway... So... you don't want to see the new Black Gold?

The 424/1035 was tried at a higher concentration (5-1-5). Coverage is better and the coating is less "see through", but still a nice light Zombie Green.

That's it......you're banned also! Lol But before you leave, can you post that new color? Lol

[Moonman]

Shotgundrums,

I've had the Breville for a few months.

I quit casting/coating due to REALLY COLD WEATHER. (the Arctic whatever)

The OVEN NEEDS TO BE DEDICATED TO COATING

AND NO FOOD USE EVER AGAIN.

I learned of the oven from this 127 pg thread and the previous

thread that had all lubes and coatings together.

It works for me so far, You read about people taking their

ovens and adding controls to them, even NEW ovens.

To me, THE BREVILLE does OUT OF THE BOX what others are trying to accomplish.

I'm retired, come from a RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT background and this process intrigued me.

For retirement hobbies, I've went from RELOADING, TO CASTING, AND NOW COATING,

With time out for shooting, retirement turns into a full time job easily.:Fire:

[Shotgundrums]

Well, I tried insulating the thermocouple. Then moved it to the top of the oven. Both only improved reaction variation +/-20 under and over target temp. Not quite consistent enough. I was able to trick the oven by hanging the probe out and triggering the probe with a lighter. But I'm not settling with this lol. I guess I'll keep this one for my epoxied mag loads:) But we won't talk about that here. Thanks Moonman for the oven info.

[Gremlin460]

Well, I tried insulating the thermocouple. Then moved it to the top of the oven. Both only improved reaction variation +/-20 under and over target temp. Not quite consistent enough. I was able to trick the oven by hanging the probe out and triggering the probe with a lighter. But I'm not settling with this lol. I guess I'll keep this one for my epoxied mag loads:) But we won't talk about that here. Thanks Moonman for the oven info.

Just before to re-mortgage the house to buy a new oven , would you be so kind as to try something?
stand a row of clay bricks about 1" apart along the base of the oven, and IF there is room a few on the top shelf.
Fire up the oven and let it run for 1 hour, and then check temp consistency.
The bricks will assist massively in stabalizing temp in older ovens. Due to their heat retention properties.
Also I have found when swapping out one tray of baked for a fresh tray, I have noticed the the temp in my old house oven drops to 130ish C, but at soon as the door is closed again the digital display climbs by 2-3 degrees per second back to around 180-190 as the radiated/stored heat of the bricks assists the element in reheating back to target temp.

To be perfectly honest, I hardly smash and wipe test anymore, for the last 50-60 trays I have cooked none have failed the tests.
I now have over 8000 cast and coated in a tray ready to go, but still cast for the therapudic value of casting :)

[Gremlin460]

Trev, any news on a auto-sizer design?

I spent last week making a case collator for the dillion, DIY design, its a variable speed 12v unit with a IR proximity beam to shut it down once the case tube is full , works like a little ripper!!
Overall cost around $60 in parts..

Only downside... I used a bright pink Bucket for the main bodyshell... but hey that makes it theft proof!!

97276

[Shotgundrums]

Just before to re-mortgage the house to buy a new oven , would you be so kind as to try something?
stand a row of clay bricks about 1" apart along the base of the oven, and IF there is room a few on the top shelf.
Fire up the oven and let it run for 1 hour, and then check temp consistency.
The bricks will assist massively in stabalizing temp in older ovens. Due to their heat retention properties.
Also I have found when swapping out one tray of baked for a fresh tray, I have noticed the the temp in my old house oven drops to 130ish C, but at soon as the door is closed again the digital display climbs by 2-3 degrees per second back to around 180-190 as the radiated/stored heat of the bricks assists the element in reheating back to target temp.

To be perfectly honest, I hardly smash and wipe test anymore, for the last 50-60 trays I have cooked none have failed the tests.
I now have over 8000 cast and coated in a tray ready to go, but still cast for the therapudic value of casting :)
Hmmm, might have to try this. Anything's go. That's very smart though!! Thank you.

[Ausglock]

Not yet. I have been busy with other things.
I still have to get the gearbox and 3 phase motor mounted.

I got a 7/8x14 tap to make a smooth mount plate that the size die can screw into. I should be able to make a bullet feed bar ( like the magma unit) by having a cam wheel on the back of the punch drive shaft.

The sizer die will get trimmed in the lathe to be flat on the top so the feeder bar can carry a bullet to the die without getting hung up.

[larksaw]

I am doing an experiment with my 22 cal Bator boolits to try to improve the accuracy at 3,600+ fps. I added a dipper of military grade moly to the Red Copper mix with 2Extreme catalyst to see what happens. Should be able to load ammo Monday and hit the range Wednesday. I tried a smash test and it looked good.
Has anyone else tried something like this?


Leadman: I'm very interested in your testing of the 22 cal Bator. From reading here and other forums the 3000fps+ can be had without a problem it's the accuracy that suffers. I am very new to shooting hi-velocity in rifles but something that keeps coming to mind is aerodynamics. I was on hometown racing team and one of the parts to getting our car working properly was the airflow over the car, just to mention we have 3 back to back championship under our belt. This is one of the reasons it got me to thinking what is the biggest difference from jacketed to cast, if we can obtain the speed, but accuracy suffers what else could be the causing this issue. Jacketed bullets are stream lined, but cast have the lube grooves which at the higher velocites creates a chatter effecting accuracy. I appologize if im way off with this like I said I'm a newbie to all this. All im trying to say is with Hi-Tek coating is there a real need for the lube grooves and could the grooves be causing the accuracy issue when pushing cast bullets at 3000fps+?

[Gateway Bullets]

Leadman: I'm very interested in your testing of the 22 cal Bator. From reading here and other forums the 3000fps+ can be had without a problem it's the accuracy that suffers. I am very new to shooting hi-velocity in rifles but something that keeps coming to mind is aerodynamics. I was on hometown racing team and one of the parts to getting our car working properly was the airflow over the car, just to mention we have 3 back to back championship under our belt. This is one of the reasons it got me to thinking what is the biggest difference from jacketed to cast, if we can obtain the speed, but accuracy suffers what else could be the causing this issue. Jacketed bullets are stream lined, but cast have the lube grooves which at the higher velocites creates a chatter effecting accuracy. I appologize if im way off with this like I said I'm a newbie to all this. All im trying to say is with Hi-Tek coating is there a real need for the lube grooves and could the grooves be causing the accuracy issue when pushing cast bullets at 3000fps+?

Larksaw you are correct about the lube grooves being obsolete with use of Hi-Tek. I had some 9mm molds made without grooves. They looked great and shot great, but I had a terrible time trying to sell them! People picked them up and said they were not real bullets because they were missing the lube groove.

I even had one guy argue with me because he believed that without lube grooves the bullet had to much bearing surface and would hurt the gun or get stuck! Then I ask him what about copper jacketed bullets. He said those are different! Lol

[Shotgundrums]

Larksaw you are correct about the lube grooves being obsolete with use of Hi-Tek. I had some 9mm molds made without grooves. They looked great and shot great, but I had a terrible time trying to sell them! People picked them up and said they were not real bullets because they were missing the

I even had one guy argue with me because he believed that without lube grooves the bullet had to much bearing surface and would hurt the gun or get stuck! Then I ask him what about copper jacketed bullets. He said those are different! Lol
Lol! Nice...some folks' logic

[popper]

could the grooves be causing the accuracy issue when pushing cast bullets at 3000fps+? Not due to aerodynamics.
Probably cause the dia. is smaller so weaker at the groove. Slump & bending.

[HI-TEK]

Leadman: I'm very interested in your testing of the 22 cal Bator. From reading here and other forums the 3000fps+ can be had without a problem it's the accuracy that suffers. I am very new to shooting hi-velocity in rifles but something that keeps coming to mind is aerodynamics. I was on hometown racing team and one of the parts to getting our car working properly was the airflow over the car, just to mention we have 3 back to back championship under our belt. This is one of the reasons it got me to thinking what is the biggest difference from jacketed to cast, if we can obtain the speed, but accuracy suffers what else could be the causing this issue. Jacketed bullets are stream lined, but cast have the lube grooves which at the higher velocites creates a chatter effecting accuracy. I appologize if im way off with this like I said I'm a newbie to all this. All im trying to say is with Hi-Tek coating is there a real need for the lube grooves and could the grooves be causing the accuracy issue when pushing cast bullets at 3000fps+?

Thanks for your thoughts.
There is evidence to support your theory. about aerodynamics and shape of projectiles.
We have found that when shooting alloys that are pointy, with lube grooves into water tank, the pointy bullet, & round nosed, with lube grooves did not travel in straight line in the water tank.
When using flat point cylinder shaped projectile, with no lube grooves, not only did it travel in a straight line, but traveled much further in the water tank that the pointed projectile.
It is not known clearly if the lube grooves created drag or created turbulance whilst travelling in the water.
Similar effects would be relevant or noticeable with air, if that was a contributing factor.

Some tests done, suggests, that when comparing Jacketed ammo to cast ammo, there are many reasons why one works and another does not.
With Jacketed ammo, one area of interest is that the alloys is very soft, and this allows much greater hydraulic deformation to take place, which seals the barrel well.
This sealing maximises pressure build up and produces accuracy.
Using cast alloys, which are harder sized at same diameter, these dont deform as much during shooting, and thereby it seems that sealing is inadequate and subsequent loss of accuracy.
This was borne out with using cast alloy which was sized at 3 thou over size, above Jacketed ammo,
(from 308 to 311 diameter), and not only did it travel at 3600ft/sec but remained accurate.
I have tried many times to get data in this area, and Leadman has seemed to have confirmed this aspect.
The rationale used is, that if the lube/coating, or whatever used, stays bonded to the alloy, does not melt fuse or come off during shooting, then it should work OK.
I have always thought, that keeping accuracy was an engineering problem once suitable lube or coating is used.
Many may think otherwise, but that is my two cents worth.

[larksaw]

Hi_Tek: From the reading i've been doing I believe this is all on the right track but like I said Im a newbie to all this but here is a website with a particular article I've been reading its a little over my head but as Im learning its starting to make a little sense. Here is the link:

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.ht m

Here is a word that I think applies to all this: Obturation

I purchased some jacketed bullet for my wifes AR15 223 they are 50grain Tnt Hp I could find load data on these so I called the company. While speaking to them the guy told me if while build the load up the bullet doesn't make it to the target you will need to slow it down. He then said that while pushing them at approx 3500fps they tend to disintegrate. One part about casting that sticks in my head is that the "major problem with casting is and will always be leading of the barrel in turn effecting accuracy". So what has been taught was to raise the BHN and cast a hard bullet. Now with lubes like yours it seems like we need to take a complete different look out how its being done. Like I said Im a newbie to rifle and want to learn about shooting them but I also want to do it on the cheap so I read and learn from all you folks and learn to cast bullets that are as good or even better then jacketed on the cheap.

[HI-TEK]

Hi_Tek: From the reading i've been doing I believe this is all on the right track but like I said Im a newbie to all this but here is a website with a particular article I've been reading its a little over my head but as Im learning its starting to make a little sense. Here is the link:

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.ht m

Here is a word that I think applies to all this: Obturation

I purchased some jacketed bullet for my wifes AR15 223 they are 50grain Tnt Hp I could find load data on these so I called the company. While speaking to them the guy told me if while build the load up the bullet doesn't make it to the target you will need to slow it down. He then said that while pushing them at approx 3500fps they tend to disintegrate. One part about casting that sticks in my head is that the "major problem with casting is and will always be leading of the barrel in turn effecting accuracy". So what has been taught was to raise the BHN and cast a hard bullet. Now with lubes like yours it seems like we need to take a complete different look out how its being done. Like I said Im a newbie to rifle and want to learn about shooting them but I also want to do it on the cheap so I read and learn from all you folks and learn to cast bullets that are as good or even better then jacketed on the cheap.

larksaw
Great contribution. Thanks much for the article.

You are correct with your quotation of certain Lead alloys appearing disintegrate at high speeds.
What is also possible, is that the "observed" disintegration, may also had been as a result of heat from powder burning, was actually melting the alloy, and resulted in lead particles being blown out.
That is why one of the reasons, why Gas checks are used.

The main purpose of using any lube was trying to stop Lead or Copper deposits building up inside barrel, and intent was to "lubricate".
Some folk are of the opinion the lubrication "speeds up" the projectile as surfaces are more slippery.
(Unfortunately, those thoughts are not quite correct.)

That is where the "engineering" aspects stops with the lubes. They lubricate, and may reduce Leading but that is all.

The advent of bonded coating, required very specific engineering areas to be catered for, such as strongly bonded to alloys, self lubricate, not melt or fuse with high energy, allow coating to cope with"Obturation" of alloys, and seal bore to separate alloy and bore,
and, most importantly, reflect heat from alloy so the hot gasses did not damage integrity of shape of alloy being shot.

As the writer of your attachment pointed out that many of the failures were misquoted or may have been misunderstood as to why certain things did not go the way people wanted.

Without reading such previously documented stuff, many folk, ( and including me), simply rely on "historical" word of mouth data, which influence some decision making when trying newer ideas.
It was, and is, a real battle to introduce new ideas, where for 100 plus years, things were accepted as being the norm.
I love technology, it constantly surprises me.

[jcobb651]

Got around to testing some new loads today and decided to try and recover some of the hitek coated rounds. These are double coated in gold, 5-1-5. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/23/bypa2eju.jpg http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/23/uma3y8em.jpg http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/23/vety8a5e.jpg Coating held up just fine. The last photo is from a 230 grain NOE HP....straight wheel weights had them dropping an average of 231 grains. Weight retention was 100% or darn close to it...this one weighed in at 231.4 after recovery and expanded to .921

[gunoil]

Lookin good.





Party like its 1776

[larksaw]

So let me ask this isnt Obturation actually happening with jacket bullets as well? AKA copper deposits. An if this is true then having a larger bearing surface actually helps to compensate for the "minor imperfections (one or two ten-thousandths of an inch) in groove diameter, the width of the lands and grooves, minor local variations in twist rate, etc." also the fact that jacketed bullets have a higher heat tolerance to melting then cast and also with a larger bearing surface it creates more stability increasing accuracy. So if that is true then with "the advent of bonded coating, required very specific engineering areas to be catered for, such as strongly bonded to alloys, self lubricate, not melt or fuse with high energy, allow coating to cope with"Obturation" of alloys, and seal bore to separate alloy and bore, and, most importantly, reflect heat from alloy so the hot gasses did not damage integrity of shape of alloy being shot."

An by increasing the bearing surface wouldn't you think it would increase stability in turn increase accuracy???

[popper]

the pointy bullet, & round nosed, with lube grooves did not travel in straight line in the water tank.
If you watch videos of any bullet shot underwater or into water, they don't go straight. Density of water is so much greater than air - the fps drops rapidly and tumbling occurs. L.G. or not. Even jacketed 'blow up'.

[Beagle333]

and unless fired perfectly straight down, one side of the boolit contacts the water first, while the other is still just pushing air, thus imparting a tumbling tendency even before it gets fully submerged.

[larksaw]

Just a little comment....I'm 53 now when I was young I had no interest in rifles...didn't hunt, still dont but loved to shoot. Pistol was my thing not to join clubs or do matches just to target shoot at local state gun range. Once I got married and the kids had to look at cheaper way to continue shooting so I started reloading first jacketed then to go cheaper started casting. Well to make long story short one thing led to another and shooting started going less and less. Now with the kids being grown and with being re-married I'm back in the fun. Here is my thoughts on shake and bake for pistol I've been using alox/xlox for all my pistol with good enough results to plink and target shoot. Cast them, shake them, let the dry, load them and shoot. This is just short and to the point I'm trying to make. Then you have Hi-Tek coating adds more to the mix with baking and this is all well and good. Here is how I got here the AR15 Bushmaster XM15ES .223 my wife who until this past year never liked guns and now she owns this beast. She absolute loves this gun. I've been trying to come up with cheap way to keep feeding it for her. As we all know what has happened this past year with Obama and the Dems it hasn't been easy to find the food for the beast. So I've been looking to cast for it and thats how I came across this forum. I started way back in the beginning pages and then just jumped forward to find what leadman had post about the 223 and 3500fps+. But slowly I've been reading page for page of this thread.

The need to feed our guns is in great damned....The gun shops that are within 20miles of me were going nuts with people buying guns and a great deal of them were rifles. So cast for the 223 has been the only alternative for me but friends and other forums advise against it that it can and will create to many issues. So I'm looking at your expertise to help me find the answers to cast and feed the beast. Sounds like Hi-tech is working on it but so far with me getting to page 69 there are to many reason to why it shouldn't or couldn't work. Softer lead, harder lead, sizing few thousandths larger, pan lube, wax lube, twist rate 1:10, 1:12, 1:7 etc.. It's this what makes it fun the challenge of doing it and leadman is proof. Most sites I've been on say you need to push the AR15 2000fps approx just to get it to cycle to much faster you get to much leading. Leadman hitting 3500fps approx shattered that theory and getting the accuracy next to boot. HI-Tek better hold on it's gonna be a wild ride.

Thats what keeps me here and actually me posting to a forum is rare and far between this Hi-Tek coating seems to be my answer but I have to rely on the testing other have done to get my answers. Sorry for the rant! But you folks have way more knowledge on this stuff then I do.

[Liberty'sSon]

Has anyone noticed a smoother shinier finish with extra acetone. Coated a batch the other day and the tub had a fair amount of HiTek left from previous coating session, so after I splashed in a little of my 5-1-5 mix, I added a splash of acetone. That batch seemed smoother and shinier to me. Any thoughts?

[HI-TEK]

Has anyone noticed a smoother shinier finish with extra acetone. Coated a batch the other day and the tub had a fair amount of HiTek left from previous coating session, so after I splashed in a little of my 5-1-5 mix, I added a splash of acetone. That batch seemed smoother and shinier to me. Any thoughts?

Thanks for your findings.
The whole idea is to coat with very thin, (diluted) mixtures each time.
This spreads coating used on much larger surfaces area.
It dries quicker, levels out well, and when completely dry, bakes well and coated film smooths out during bake.
Two coats of thinned coating should be enough to get adequate results for most applications.
You use less coating and get good results as well.

[Moonman]

Shot several hundred rounds last week in my S&W 686 Revolver,

NO CLEANING, shot 100 rounds this morning too.

No cleaning, let club members examine the firearm with a barrel light.

They were AMAZED, she's CLEAN AS A WHISTLE.

Using HI-TEK GOLD, I like it.

I was going to look at doing some casting this week, but weatherman

says another POLAR VORTEX or something is coming, COLD AGAIN.

[larksaw]

I'd like to share a link I came across that real help me understand why we cast our bullets hard as we can to obtain faster velocites. It backs up Hi-Teks theory that it might be an engineering problem that needs to be looked at. What I was searching for was Bullet slump and while search this came to light. Take a look!

http://www.rserv.com/Alloy.html

[bmiller]

I shoot USPSA (ipsc), and have been hitting some indoor matches this winter. Hi-tek, do you have a catalyst combo that can cut smoke any? I think powder selection has a lot to do with it. Just curious.

[jcobb651]

I shoot USPSA, and have been hitting some indoor matches this winter. Hi-tek, do you have a catalyst combo that can cut smoke any?

Are you seeing smoke using Hi-TEK? I havent noticed any when shooting indoors using it.

[larksaw]

Hi-Tek,

I've been reading about coating, sizing and then coating again. If I understand it right the reason for the coating after sizing is to fix any part of the coating that might have gotten striped/ or thinned by the sizing. I understand your working on new coating the will act like a jacketed bullet. Here is my thoughts, when it comes to accuracy we weigh, measure, size, etc to control as much of the variables that effect accuracy. I want to use the coating for rifle and from what I gather velocity isn't the problem. So Im looking at another variable that may effect accuracy which would be the thickness of the coating. I've watched the videos on how its done you have to admit controling even flow and thickness isn't there. My thoughts are the new coating and sizing may be a way to adjust this variable and make it consistent. Please your thoughts would be appreciated!

[HI-TEK]

I shoot USPSA (ipsc), and have been hitting some indoor matches this winter. Hi-tek, do you have a catalyst combo that can cut smoke any? I think powder selection has a lot to do with it. Just curious.

Hi,
There is several Catalysts available.
They are mainly for user to allow severe reductions in diameter during sizing.
All catalysts perform same way but using Extreme or 2-Extreme Catalysts, both reduces sizing loads dramatically, especially with longer profile and harder alloys.
The Catalysts selection used, will not change smoking aspects, and there should be very little or none being generated by the coatings even with normal catalysts, provided coatings are cured adequately.
Hope this helps.
If you want to do some playing, I am sure that suppliers should be able to give you some small samples to try.
You dont really need much to compare results you are getting with standard catalyst and Extreme or 2-Extreme catalysts.
If you find success with one, more that the other in your applications, then next time you purchase product, you will then need to specify catalyst you then require with coating selection.

[HI-TEK]

Hi-Tek,

I've been reading about coating, sizing and then coating again. If I understand it right the reason for the coating after sizing is to fix any part of the coating that might have gotten striped/ or thinned by the sizing. I understand your working on new coating the will act like a jacketed bullet. Here is my thoughts, when it comes to accuracy we weigh, measure, size, etc to control as much of the variables that effect accuracy. I want to use the coating for rifle and from what I gather velocity isn't the problem. So Im looking at another variable that may effect accuracy which would be the thickness of the coating. I've watched the videos on how its done you have to admit controling even flow and thickness isn't there. My thoughts are the new coating and sizing may be a way to adjust this variable and make it consistent. Please your thoughts would be appreciated!

Thanks for your questions.
Coating with first coat, then sizing, is mainly required for cast alloys from molds that produce webbing or uneven cast shape.
A single coat should allow sizing, where irregularities are then removed.
Then recoating simply covers areas being exposed.
As alloy is final sized, after coating with 2 or 3 very thin coats, there should be no change in weight at all.
The coating is there to separate alloy from barrel.
You are really should not affecting any thing else.
The multi application of thin coats, ensures that there is maximum coverage to protect the alloy.
Final sizing should not alter weight of projectiles, but simply ensuring a smooth finished surface being achieved at chosen diameter.
From tests done, shooting with hot loads and increased speeds should not remove coating from well coated alloy, as it does not fuse, or melt with heat and friction.
Joe

[bmiller]

Thank you , Hi-tek. The guys I shoot with are very fussy. I will give them a call.