Brass try Starline:
357 SIG Brass (Small Pistol primer)
357 Sig-Sauer
0.856 - 0.862 O.A.L.
Basically a .40 S&W necked down to accept a .355" diameter bullet. Most pistols chambered for the .40 S&W can be converted to .357 Sig or complete firearms are available from Sig-Sauer. Cannot be formed out of .40 S&W.
Box Size:
• 500 ($103.50)
• 1000 ($171.50)
Anyone have any data on point of impact changes when using a drop in .357 Sig bbl. vs. say a .40 S&W with 155 gr JHPs? I've got a P226 and a Sig M11-A1 that I might be interested in getting a .357 Sig bbl. and doing some experimentation. Rod
At 200 yds, I can't tell the difference...Originally Posted by Rodfac
(i.e. in both cases, the paper is hole-free)
I too want a 357sig for carry while hunting or a 10mm. `Used to carry the G23, but would like more speed and range of the 357sig. The reason being is when a pesky coyote takes off I could have a better chance in the short grass prairie. I have hit runners with the 40SW but really desire more powerful loads, hence 357sig.
Oh come on, it's only about 50 inches of drop...At 200 yds, I can't tell the difference...
(i.e. in both cases, the paper is hole-free)
I find the cartridge to be interesting but not interesting enough to want one.
The bottlenecked, rimless, semi-auto cartridge concept is old and has some real merit. (30 Mauser, 30 Luger, 7.62 Tokarev, etc.) but it also has drawbacks. The .357 SIG which is based on the 40 S&W, has some real performance tied to it but it just doesn't do enough to make me want one. It does push a 9mm 125 gr projectile to .357 magnum velocity and it does it in a semi-auto platform. It also feeds well due to the "small bullet, big chamber mouth" inherent to all bottlenecked designs.
Here in my state, the Virginia State Police have been using the .357 SIG for about 20 years now and they seem to be pleased with it.
At that distance, I'm lucky to even *see* the target...
And even if I could see it, the front sight would completely obliterate it.
Old eyes...
On the other hand, from 200 yds, I'm not that concerned with defensive issues with a handgun. After 10 yds, it gets a bit more difficult to justify self-defense. People who are trying to rob you do it from a a bit closer than 20 yds, if for no other reason than you need to hear them when they ask for your money.
"Eh? Whatcha say, Sonny?"
Last edited by NavyVet1959; 02-12-2017 at 01:14 AM.
Andy and others concerned with bullet set-back occurring with multiple chamberings: Be gentle. Lock your slide back, seat your mag and then pull back the slide and don't let it go on it's own. Hold it and let it chamber slowly. Quality firearms won't have a problem with this.
Cat
Cogito, ergo armatum sum.
(I think, therefore I'm armed.)
I'm only relating what I have READ, so insert caveats as needed......but my understanding is that 357 SIG uses the case mouth as its headspace surface. My response at the time was "What??!!" That case shoulder is a much more substantial "shelf" to support cartridge positioning than is a case mouth, though straightwall centerfire pistol rounds seem to run very well using that headspacing reference.
I bring this up based on my experience with the 30 Luger and 30 Mauser/7.62 x 25 Tokarev rounds. They also have very short necks, and a light roll crimp is REQUIRED to guard against bullets telescoping during feedramp contact. I don't really want to re-fight that battle with another caliber, since seater dies for 357 SIG are taper-crimp-only.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
The cartridge head spacing on the case mouth is likely an admission the neck is too short, and what neck there is is needed to provide maximum grip on the bullet. Chambers likely have even shorter neck dimensions which preclude sizing dies from mislocating the shoulders in sizing and causing the gun to jam by not setting the shoulder back enough.
Practical reality is that case mouth headspacing is a more one size fits all solution to the headspacing problem than shoulder location on a bottleneck case when used in pistols. Most reloaders and manufacturers probably do not know enough to set the location of the shoulder correctly or prefer to have it so far back to maximize case grip on the bullet that the shoulder would create an excessive headspace condition if used to control forward movement in the chamber.
The downside is the shoulder gets moved around a lot when the case is fired and sized. Likely the cases will not have the longevity of, say, the straighter 45 ACP case with an equal amount of firing. Due to both pressure and more working of the brass.
There was confusion when it came to the 357 Sig. For a time the factory said it headspaces on the case mouth. Then later it was changed to yea its really the shoulder. For people who don't reload it was never an issue, they fired it and left the brass. I set my dies so the shoulder is set back very little. Found it easier to run them thru a 40 cal, then a 357 sig, no need for lube. Cast be a bit more work. Expander that comes w dies is usually pretty short and for .355 jacketed. I bought an NOE set up, it still really doesn't flare the case enough for cast. So an extra step is using the Lee flare tool. You can load longer than it says in the book, so long as they fit in the mag. Opens up the door to alot more bullets.
If one compares a factory loaded case to the one that emerges from the pistol's chamber, it is pretty darn evident that the round is headspacing on the case mouth much more so than the case shoulder. But agreed, what it headspaces on subsequently after being reloaded depends upon how it is sized.
If the factories felt it was absolutely necessary, or better, to headspace on the shoulder they would do so and insist on closer compatibility between cartridge shoulder location and gun manufacturer chamber shoulder location, and of course they do not. Apparently they must figure that where it headspaces upon has something to do with reliability. There must be something about shoulder headspacing that is counterproductive when factory ammo is loaded.
Best guess is that "something" is making sure the gun goes bang. Apparently shoulder headspacing is not reasonably possible using factory ammo and chambers as they currently exist.
Well to be fair, the factory has no idea what gun the ammo will be used in. Theres a spec on chambers, but we all know they still vary. The factory also knows only a small percentage of shooters reload. So as long as the ammo is reliable and goes bang, then things are fine. So headspace on the case mouth, set the shoulder back, go on their merry way.
Once you set the shoulder for your gun, it probably wont work in any gun anymore. May or may not, but liable to be some it wont plunk in. I read an article on setting a precise shoulder on real guns site. I can feel the difference when sizing other brass and stuff fired in mine. I bought a bunch of once fired I have been using. I can feel the shoulder being set back on it, vs barely on stuff fired thru my gun and resized. I doubt brass would last long blowing that shoulder forward then setting it back to many times. Once its set to a gun, would see it lasting alot longer. But then may be gun specific like neck sizing for a bolt gun. Mine is not a factory chamber, but a 9mm barrel I cut to 357 sig. They do not sell a 357 sig barrel for FNS40.
No argument with any of that.
As a practical matter when using factory ammo or the "approved" practice of using factory loaded hollow points for defensive purposes to which a 357 Sig may be put, the round does headspace on the case mouth.
there is a lot of difference in the drop from a 124 and 147 gr. AT HUNTING range of 50 to 75 yds. for protection at 25ft no
I have taken 4 deer one shot each. I have a sig 226 I got about the time they cam out with it . I change the sights to millets
the sights are not for a conceal carry, but they are very nice on the range and in the field. I have 2deer with the 124s and 2 with the 147. I could see no difference. the last one was with a 147 at about 75yds. he did run about 200 ft. the other 3 dropped.
the damage is bad if you get a shoulder.
I have not done much reloading but what I did I didn't have a problem. it took about 2yrs for the dies to hit the market
there was a gun store here that was very large . and the ATF shut him down. he closed out everything.
had 40 50rd boxes of mix of fed umc speer and win so I have a lot to use. Also was 25boxes of hornady 25 rd box in the 124 and 147 hp. there is a noticeable difference in power
there were 2 boxes of hornady 124 FMJ I shot 2 at a 1/4steel plate and about 10 from behind a block wall. it didn't shoot through but both cracked the back side . I would doubt a vest would stop them
I suspect that as long as the extractor is working, the round ends up headspacing on the extractor. That's what happens when you fire .40SW in 10mm.
The SAAMI drawings say it headspaces off the case mouth. Several sources say it headspaces off the shoulder. The go no go gauges measure off the shoulder. Considering how far back the shoulder is bumped back on all factory ammo I have gauged I would say these factories are making their ammo to what SAAMI has in their prints. The shoulders are bumped back WAY further than they need to be.
Which is why shoulder headspacing isn't occurring.
And if it's causing no harm, and the guns are running reliably, the factories may correctly perceive to "need" to bump it back that far.
Remember the reason the British had a lot of clearance twixt case shoulder and chamber shoulder of their 303's and ponder that for awhile.
Not at all surprising factories conform to SAAMI specs, is it?
Last edited by 35remington; 02-20-2017 at 11:28 PM.
I have a springfield xd in 357 sig it is a great gun, the round is an odd round to shoot very loud, a ball of yellow flame and very little recoil, I got the gun with some other guns after a fellow died after owning one I don't think I would do it again
The sig when used in a 10mm sized gun (g20 for me) seating to 10mm length gets very impressive. It also does better with 357 mag bullets as the larger diameter and straight shank help neck tension. Loaded long in a 6" barrel my top loads are a 125g at 1736fps at the light end and a 180 at almost 1400fps for the heavies.
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