gun blew up

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Although I don't have anything like their background in testing, I'm entirely convinced by what Larry and Goodsteel have said. If I can add anything, it is in a series of experiments I saw written up several decades ago, in which .303 barrels were amputated down to about bullet nose level, and the rather hard-jacketed MkVII round was fired. The bullet base was blasted to a sort of irregular cone shape on exit. Yes, a jacketed bullet can be expanded enough for the throat to act as a momentary obstruction, and most likely did in the cases, with partial charges of slow powder, which Ackley described but never reproduced. He was a great experimenter, but didn't say what he is often represented as having said.

I also agree with Goodsteel on the qualities of the 95 Marlin. Many shooters seem to have a need to find fatal flaws in the work of the industry and governments on which we depend. I suppose it is an oedipal thing. I also agree that while the OP may have made an error of judgement, it was probably a slip of the hand anybody might do sometime. Of course we shouldn't. But it doesn't begin to compare with the people who think "I know this isn't right, but it will work out all right... won't it?"

[KAF]

If I seat a bullet in front of the case say 1/16" put a charged case behind it and fire it the pressure will rise enough to blow up a rifle?

[Driver man]

That is what was thought to happen. It is not what happens at all. What happens to cause and SEE event is the
bullet becomes stuck in the throat under certain conditions very early during ignition of the powder. The bullet essentially acts as a bore obstruction. The powder then burns reaching catastrophic pressures before the bullet starts moving. The powder does not detonate but still burns progrssively. With out the bullet moving the pressure rise to catastrphic level very quickly. The result can be as bad as we've seen here.

We can observe this very easily with modern pressure measuring methods. It is very common with slower burning powders for the pressure to rise during engraving into the lands and swaging down. The pressure can drop quite a bit after that before it begins burning efficiently. I can show you lots of pressure traces showing that with both jacketed bullets and cast bullets.

Larry Gibson

This raises the question in my mind as to where we should be seating the boolit ,bullet. Some of my most accurate loads are with the projectile engraving the rifling and using reduced loads. Is this temping fate? I am now concerned that this practice may be leading to a barrel obstruction or chamber obstruction and a subsequent explosion, detonation or S.E.E event. I use 2400, unique, AP50 and AP70 in my reduced loads. What thoughts on this?

[snuffy]

You may have a loaded round left with a light powder charge. I'd weigh the remainder to look for the other half of the mistake.
Heal well, and good luck.

From post #100;

Just read everything posted. Thanks for taking it easy on me. Was expecting more abuse.

I reload rifles on an RCBS single stage and trickle powder on a beam scale. It could have been a double charge, I dont know and will never know. The thing is, is that I only loaded those 4 rounds for testing. 2 were in the target, 2 exploded in the gun at the same time. It was several days ago and I dont remember if it was daytime or latenight when I loaded them. I thought I've always checked each case before seating a bullet, maybe not.

It could be a double charge or I wonder about something like what Gemsbok was talking about, packing into a ball behind the boolit. I never thought of that, but I guess its a possibility.

The boolit was NOE 405 RF gas check. Both previous shots were on target so no blocked barrel.

Anyway, today is the wifes birthday and we're making ribs so I better go. She says that me still here is enough present for her. I know I'm very lucky to be only a little sore and cut up and have a story. Could be much worse. Someone was watching out for me. I do need new safety glasses (a week old) as these are now pretty scratched. I think from the for stock splintering in my face.

Thanks for all the thoughts and prayers.

Only four rounds loaded. 2 in target, 2 in rifle both of which blew up.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

He probably just chose the wrong muzzle loader, wrong charge, or wrong smokeless powder. There are some combinations that *could* work, but it's not a direct one to one substitution. The people who make these mistakes just think that "powder is powder" and that gets them in trouble fairly quickly.

Probably he did, although not many of them are right. There is nothing magical about brass which makes a gun stick to reasonable pressures, and it is possible to build plenty of steel into a muzzle-loader. Way, way back there was a muzzle-loader for smokeless built in Mexico, probably in times when a little more violent death in that country was neither here nor there. I can't imagine it being a good idea, but it could have been closer to it than the muzzle-loader accident described above.

My guess is that there was a shoulder at the front of the powder chamber, so that the chamber was filled with powder which it was impossible to compress. In the case described, the deceased probably just rammed it down the way people do with muzzle-loaders. in Mexico, probably in times when a little more violent death in that country was neither here nor there. I can't imagine it being a good idea, but it could have been closer to it than the muzzle-loader accident described above.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It wasn't for small arms, but I set up the gauges, fired the guns, reduced the data, discussed with the physicists and retired the barrels at APG. Detonation does happen, under several different circumstances including obturation occlusion.

There are a lot of ways in which artillery furnishes an excellent analogy with what happens in a hand firearm, but I don't believe this is one of them. The distance from primer to front end of an artillery shell or powder chamber is much greater.

I've mentioned before that Paul Vieille, the inventor of smokeless rifle powder, did some very interesting experiments with smokeless ignited in elongated sealed chambers. When the powder was evenly spread along its length, events were normal. But when it was concentrated at the primer end, there was an extremely localized buildup of extremely high pressure when the gases were brought to a standstill at the far, powderless end. He was even able to set up an extremely sensitive pendulum device to determine what happened to the mass of gases and fouling. It bounced several times from end to end of the powder chamber.

This is what causes ring bulges, when a projectile's acceleration is suddenly reduced by an obstruction. In a firearm, with its short powder chamber and short bore time, it is difficult to produce a double ring bulge (although I have done it experimentally with a derelict shotgun). But in artillery it is possible to produce a longer series of ring bulges.

[ascast]

I think Remington bought Marlin with in the last 2 years.

[PULSARNC]

Having blown up a weatherby Vanguard myself in what was diagnosed as a S.E.E. this has been a most educational threaad .

[MBTcustom]

For the record, and to be clear, this was not a case of SEE. This was a classic double charge.
I just don't want a new reader to skim through this thread and read all this very good information about SEE and conclude that was the case here.
It was not.

[spotsboss]

I'm sitting here with a new resolve to concentrate on my reloading and to devise a system to eliminate double charges. One look at those bloody pictures...Paul Harvey used to do this - - tell some gruesome but true story just so his listeners would be more careful about things.

[NavyVet1959]

I'm sitting here with a new resolve to concentrate on my reloading and to devise a system to eliminate double charges. One look at those bloody pictures...Paul Harvey used to do this - - tell some gruesome but true story just so his listeners would be more careful about things.

You can't completely eliminate it, but you can develop procedures that will minimize it (if you religiously follow those procedures EVERY time you reload).

On the other hand, you can just switch to WC-872 for your handgun loads and not have to worry about double charges.

[MtGun44]

spotsboss - that is exactly the right take-home from this whole event. Well said, sir.

[Student]

Had a very similar incident happen yesterday. I Googled "guide gun blew up" and found this thread. I too took an ambulance ride to ER with a really nasty wound to my left hand, so it seems this is what these guns do to people when they give up. The gun split into two parts, shattering the foregrip and separating at the barrel. In my case I was shooting 405 grn SNS casting bullets with 2015 powder. I was going for light loads and had success with 41 grains. These were supposed to be 36. Could I have undercharged? I can't remember if it's even possible to fit 72 grains of 2015 in there. I have no doubt that this is somehow my fault, just not sure how yet. This happened on the first shot of the day, so it's likely the whole batch is bad, as opposed to a fluke. At some point I'll break open some of these cases and double check the charge.

[M-Tecs]

That is impressive. Welcome and I hope everything with the hand works out. Keep us posted as to what you find.

[quasi]

you will not where the barrel blew. On the bottom of the barrel. against the mag tube. The barrel is very very thin at this point.

[prsman23]

Had a very similar incident happen yesterday. I Googled "guide gun blew up" and found this thread. I too took an ambulance ride to ER with a really nasty wound to my left hand, so it seems this is what these guns do to people when they give up. The gun split into two parts, shattering the foregrip and separating at the barrel. In my case I was shooting 405 grn SNS casting bullets with 2015 powder. I was going for light loads and had success with 41 grains. These were supposed to be 36. Could I have undercharged? I can't remember if it's even possible to fit 72 grains of 2015 in there. I have no doubt that this is somehow my fault, just not sure how yet. This happened on the first shot of the day, so it's likely the whole batch is bad, as opposed to a fluke. At some point I'll break open some of these cases and double check the charge.

Good to hear you will be ok. I've had this happen and it's scary stuff for sure. Be safe my man.

[GregLaROCHE]

And I worried when I got a stuck bolt once or twice. Glad he didn’t get hurt worse. We can’t forget how dangerous this hobby can be.

[xs11jack]

Here is what I am praying for: you didn't get badly hurt praise the Lord: that you will not get any infections in any of the wounds: Praise the Lord that you will heal completely: Praise the Lord that no one else got hurt. With that and the prayers everyone else is putting up I think we got you covered.
Ole Jack

[rl69]

Zombie thread from 2015

[Bazoo]

Might be a zombie thread... but its the first i've seen of it. Glad the OP was not hurt worse.