Remington shutting H+R down?

[badgeredd]

Unfortunately I too have worked for companies that closed because of profitability. First we were profitable and then an "expert" was imported by the "holding company" that had bought our company. Procedures were changed (read that as made worse) and we started losing money, according to management. Next, the holding company started consolidating and closing various plants. Finally they closed the last one to Whirlpool. Point is they had been profitable because they sold off all the assets, and IMHO they had no intension of making the company a thriving business. They just pillaged the assets and raped the employees. BTW the company was in the top 20 nationally as molding/tool building companies. Obviously greed was the entire reason for their (the holding company's) acquisition. It seems that a profit isn't all that is wanted by these raiders. They want huge profits!

Sad that this seems to be the trend throughout the US. God help us if we need to defend our borders and way of life!

[rbstern]

Too bad. They've been making firearms in Gardner, MA, for a very long time. End of an era.

[Harry O]

That remids me. The union also said that there were two sets of books. The "actual" profit and what they were being told were losses. I don't believe that for a minute.

Yes, some companies are worth more sold off in parts. However, that is a one-shot deal. Once it is done, there is no more money to be had from it. An ongoing company that is making a REAL profit will continue to provide money for everyone as long as any ONE group in the company doesn't get greedy (that covers union, management, and stockholders (if there are any)). It is preferable to keep a profitible company going and it is preferable to break up a losing company and sell it off it parts.

Regardless of what is said, I don't believe this was a profitable company. It was privately held by Marlin so there were no public accountings. We still don't have an accounting because the current owner is private, too. Even if we did, what good would it do? There would still be people saying that they were keeping two sets of books to show losses. I still believe that a company that is showing a REAL profit (as opposed to accounting tricks -- which can only work for a short time), will not be closed down.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Of course one thing left unsaid was and is massachusetts' unstinting efforts against, GOD, guns, religion, family, personal responsibility and the "Protestant" work ethic, and the continuing voter and government thrust towards everything opposit to the above. So really the citizens bear as much responsibility as the union "giving" a dollar back to the employer going down the drain. BvT

[Boz330]

Bob, the cost the government puts on a company is no different than the cost they pay for rent, power, insurance, or anything else. It is one of the factors that goes into arriving at a price at which you can profitably sell your product. It is the style of businesses today not to use your own money or profit to run the company but to keep it mortgaged to the hilt. The interest you pay is another price setting factor. Profits are kept low to avoid taxes. In this condition, the company is teetering on stability, one little change in conditions can push it across the line into bankruptcy. It also can create conditions which make the business attractive to the specialists in mergers and take-overs. If there is a lot of debt, the business can be bought for a minimal cash investment. Oddly enough, the debt and negative income can be attractive to companies with lots of profits they need to offset. Another factor can be company assets. How many times have you seen one company buy another, sell off their assets, then bankrupt the company, leaving the local bank and investors to take the loss.
other than rock stars, athletes, and lottery winners, guys don't get rich by being "lucky".

Art, I don't disagree with everything you say but manufacturing especially doesn't operate in a vacuum. If stuff coming in from outside the country is cheaper to buy then folks will buy it. In many cases these items are throw away when their life span is met. TVs are a perfect example. In some cases such as cars the items coming in are as good as or better than US made. With out a doubt the Japs gave the big 3 a dose of reality back in the late 70s. A US made car was toast at 100K miles. The Japanese stuff was going 200K to 300K. The US caught up and I'm sure they will again.
My business is service oriented and I have some competition so I can't just charge what ever I want. I do have to comply with FAA regulations and in the last 5 years they made major changes to the regs for Aviation SAFETY. Since the FAA doesn't distinguish between a 747 and a hot air ballon (which is what I work on) we all have to comply with the same paperwork which has doubled or more. Then they also saw the need for ongoing training. I am a one man shop so I get to take myself off in a corner and give myself continueing education and evaluate whether it was effective.
When I was rewriting all of these manuals I was seriously trying to figure out a way to retire, and I actually love what I do, except the paperwork. Point is since I've been in this business, aproximately 34 years, the regulation has gone from an inconvience, to a major hassle in time. If there is an improvement in safety it is only because the working class man has been driven out of general aviation because of cost. I'm not saying some oversight isn't necessary for the protection of the masses, but there is no common sense used most of the time, it seems it is kill a cockroach with a Buick.

Bob

[GSM]

Anybody see a replay sort of along the lines of Smith Wesson from a few years ago?

[Little Joe]

My first gun was an H&R 20ga shotgun and I still have it.Their shotguns are not to bad for the money and I think every kid should have one.

Their rifles on the other hand are a joke,just cheap junk.If Remington shuts them down thats no bg deal.We all will be better off without them.No loss at all.

Out of here,
Little Joe

[OBXPilgrim]

Their shotguns are not to bad for the money and I think every kid should have one.

Their rifles on the other hand are a joke,just cheap junk. No loss at all.

Out of here,
Little Joe

Well, that's some interesting observations but exactly opposite of mine. I've always looked at the shotguns as pure junk, that I never could hit any thing with because the pattern was always so high to the bead sight.

The rifles on the other hand, were quite useful.

I've got one gun with a .22 Hornet barrel that I finally got to shoot good, a .357 mag barrel (that can be loaded to .357 max due to it's long chamber & throat & .360 DW brass), a 7.62x39 barrel that I've got shooting 1" at 80 yards with H4895 & 311041 cast, and a 50 cal muzzleloader barrel.

I'd love to have one more 'Handi' from them - a .223Rem/.30-30Win/.45-70, and might even send it back for one of the junker shotgun barrels - if I could get one with a vent rib (Classics).

[jack19512]

Their rifles on the other hand are a joke,just cheap junk.

That is quite an observation. How many of the H&R rifles have you had to base your opinion on? And what about the rifles brought you to this conclusion? Although some like the rifles and some don't you are the first person I have read or heard about that rated them junk.

I have had three of the rifles myself. One was a 17 Mach2 Sportster, a .223 Ultra, and a Buffalo Classic 45/70. Of the three I only have the Buffalo Classic now. I didn't sell the other two because they were junk though.

I sold the two because I just didn't like single shots and also to finance other purchases. I will never sell my B/C. They are what they are, but to say they are junk in my opinion is undeserved.

Whether you like a firearm or not and whether you buy a certain firearm or not it hurts a lot of people when a product goes out of production. H&R rifles were inexpensive and I am sure are responsible for quite a few people getting into the shooting sports. There are a lot of people that own much more expensive firearms and think highly of their H&R rifles.

I respect your opinion and know that there must be reasons you feel this way but to feel to the extent you do bothers me. If they discontinue making these rifles jobs will be lost and some people that don't have buckets of money on hand will be deprived of being able to purchase a rifle that most anybody can afford.

[Nrut]

I just don't want to be put in the position of having to do the R&D (or deal with the inevitable QC issues) on any product that I buy, FOR the company from which I buy it. If they need that kind of service, they can darn well PAY ME for it. So, I don't NEED a single-shot....and I don't want one THAT badly. I'll just stick to my old reliable Yugo Mauser......and keep it simple.

Then you don't want a Handi rifle......don't believe me...then how do you explain all the home fix sticky's over at the NEF/H&R Talk forum over at GrayBeard?...for all we know Remington just might kick some quality control into some handi-rifle butt...I speak from the experience of owning two of these rifles bcp477...One shoots and the other I'll most likely have to rechamber so I can fit the proper sized cast bullet to groove dia....
Remington taking over Handi is a good thing and my glass is half full for now...

[HORNET]

I'm still surprised that there are ANY firearms companies actually manufacturing in the Northeast U.S.. High labor costs, hostile state government regulations and policies, obscenely high tax rates... I expect to see more become no more than a business office (if that) with the actual manufacturing being done in a state with much more attractive atmosphere.

[bcp477]

I care not a fig for all of the controversy and swirling masses of hearsay surrounding this issue. I operate by the K.I.S.S. principal, which has served me well for a very long time. That is, in fact, the whole reason I wanted a single-shot rifle. However, all of the nonsense surrounding the whole issue just puts me off. So, no...at this point, I don't want an H&R/ NEF....or any other new rifle. It's better that way, in any case.

[Sam]

If we don't want all those crippling regulations and featherbedding unions, all we have to do is vote the turds out of Congress! No one seems to understand that point, or be willing to do anything about it.

Sam

[Junior1942]

.....Their rifles on the other hand are a joke,just cheap junk.If Remington shuts them down thats no bg deal.We all will be better off without them.No loss at all.

My 45-70 Handi-Rifle is a loooong way from being junk. Will your high-$ Ruger #1 do this at 100 yards with iron sights? Heck, will it do it with a 24x scope?

With a little sight tweaking, I could have hit that quarter 4 out of 5 shots @ 100 yards. . . . With open sights......

[James C. Snodgrass]

Junior, Yes my #1 will do that.James

[boommer]

for me a shotgun that shoots over the bead it gives me no cover up is a shot advantage I want, but thats me! The handi's are great bang for the the buck! we will see what happens best of luck for there jobs.

[JIMinPHX]

I disagree about H&R rifles being junk. My favorite hunting rifle is a Handi. Also, I can’t count on one hand, how many times I’ve been at a range next to some guy with a high dollar, biped equipped, huge scoped, bull barreled, should-be-a-tackdriver rifle next to my little Handi that I bench rest on an empty cardboard ammo box, & I outshoot the living daylights out of his groups. I’m just starting to work up cast loads for the Handi, so my cast performance isn’t stellar yet, but I had my j-word groups down below 1/2" with 3 different types of bullets at 100-yards using a crummy little $200 Handi. They’re quick handling, quick pointing little rifles with most of the barrels that you commonly see on them. Quite frankly, I leave my $600 rifle, of the same caliber, in the gun safe & grab my Handi most of the time when I go hunting.

Also, the nice lady in Gardner that I have spoken to when I have called there has been nothing less than helpful any time that I have called her. She has always given me straight answers & they have always been correct. My only disappointment, was that I got a 1:12 twist .223 when I was expecting a 1:9. The people at H&R didn’t mess it up though. I failed to check my facts. I had been told by someone here on this board that they had changed over to 1:9, so that’s what I had expected. I had never checked with H&R to see what twist they were producing. That’s my fault, not theirs.

[JIMinPHX]

Junior, if that’s your 100-yard work with iron sights, then remind me never to get on your bad side. There would be no escape.

[JIMinPHX]

I'm still surprised that there are ANY firearms companies actually manufacturing in the Northeast U.S.. High labor costs, hostile state government regulations and policies, obscenely high tax rates... I expect to see more become no more than a business office (if that) with the actual manufacturing being done in a state with much more attractive atmosphere.

This is why I am baffled by Henry setting up shop in Brooklyn of all places. I also find it hard to believe that firearms are still manufactured in Connecticut & Springfield Mass. Guns are being made in the places that they are hardest to own & where production costs are sky high. Kimber is in Yonkers too! Another bewilderment.

[Hackleback]

"Work of art" or "piece of work"? BvT

intended as a bit of tongue-in-cheek.....


Not one to think everything is a conspiricy, but it makes one wonder why they are buying up all the american gun companies... do they smell money or???????????