Slugging 1911 barrel with round ball

[beroen]

Is .490 lead round ball to big to slug my 1911 barrel with if I lube the barrel. ?

Thanks guys

[9.3X62AL]

It may take some force, but if you go slowly (tap tap tap.....) with a brass rod the RB will shear off shavings as it goes into the barrel's chamber--past its chamber step--into the throat--down the barrel and out the muzzle. I would prefer to start with a soft bullet from a 45-70 of about .460" diameter if possible, but ya gotta dance with who brought ya.

Over the years, I have slugged several dozen 45 ACP pistol barrels. 98% of these of ALL makes have measured between 4505" and .452", and most of those were .0002" either side of .451". 45 ACP barrels come in AMAZINGLY close to SAAMI spec with incredible frequency. The Makers have been at this for over 100 years, and in that time they have learned how to Get It Right.

One exception to this "rule" that comes to mind........Glock 45 ACP OEM barrels. The 3 I have slugged all went .449" x .453" across their two lobe depths (they aren't really "lands and grooves"). I have run a couple thousand each of .452" and 454" cast bullets through Glock 45 caliber OEM barrels, and can see no advantage in one diameter over another in terms of accuracy, velocity, or potential for lead deposits. In one spate of shooting, I fired 550 #452374 bullets through the pistol without function failure or a trace of leading; the first 275 were sized .452", the second half were .454". No discernible leading at any point during this time. Alloy was 92/6/2, lube was Alox/BW.

[Cowpoke]

I have run .490 round balls through a Lee .452 sizer for slugging. Works as long as your barrel isn't larger than that. I have also pound them through at .490 it does shave the sides off as 9.3x62AL said.

[beroen]

I did some of those slugs in a cleaned once fired case with some round ball and torch but they are coming out at .451-.453 not quite big enough I think I will try and squish them from each end with light hammer strikes to get them out to at least. .455


I ran a bunch of .453 200g SWC and had pretty bad leading in the throat and start of the barrel I am going to try and reduce the majority of it..


This Ruger 1911 of mine has a bevel on the start of the lands but it's ugly. Will having a nice throat put on a 1911 barrel for shooting cast affect its copper plated or J word performance?

[9.3X62AL]

Beroen--

There are a number of variables in play here that can cause leading in assembled reloads containing cast bullets. I would not make ANY modifications to your 1911A1's barrel internals until cancelling out all of the possible ammo and bullet anomalies first.

It sounds like you have access to at least a dial caliper. A micrometer is better, but if you are skilled with the caliper we can still do some business. The first thing to measure is expander spud within the (usually) second die in your reloading set. This part is the plug that slightly opens up the case mouth of your resized case. Chances are it mics about .447". This is fine for seating JACKETED bullets, which resist deformation far better than do cast bullets. For your cast bullets sized at .452", I prefer an expander spud of at least .449", and .450" is better. Use of undersized expander spuds can reduce diameter of seated bullets; as bullets are seated in undersized case mouths, they are squeezed down.

Misuse and over-use of taper crimping dies or seating dies that apply a taper crimp can also reduce bullet diameters, which causes barrel leading. It can also lead to loose bullet seating. It is a physical impossibility to seat a bullet and apply a proper taper crimp at the same time, esp. with cast bullets. Overall length will vary, even with jacketed bullets, and you run a fine chance of reducing bullet diameter by squeezing down a case mouth sidewall while ramming a soft lead bullet through it. MUCH better to fully seat the bullet as one discrete die step, then reset the die to do no seating but only give a very subtle straightening of the belled case mouth. Over-do the taper crimp, and your barrel will be a lead mine.

You see, current reloading die sets kind of "assume" with their dimensioning bias that the user will be loading jacketed bullets. 45 ACP sizer dies over-do resizing, reducing outside diameter to .467". .470" is actual spec; I use a 45 Colt sizer die that gives a .469" diameter to my 45 ACP brass. If you reload for revolvers, you have the option of using "cowboy" dies sets that are biased dimensionally for cast bullet reloading. With autopistols and cast bullets, some improvisation or to-order tooling is sometimes necessary to get things better than what standard dies can produce.

All things excellent are both rare and difficult, or at least were until their quirks were demystified. 9mm can be real bugbears; the 45 ACP is lead-friendly by nature, as long as the loader doesn't induce faults exacerbated by tooling or its misuse.

[DougGuy]

This Ruger 1911 of mine has a bevel on the start of the lands but it's ugly. Will having a nice throat put on a 1911 barrel for shooting cast affect its copper plated or J word performance?

No because the barrel is the same dimension in front of the throat. If anything it may make it shoot better with all types of boolits because the throat will let the boolit stabilize before it hits rifling so it hits it nice and square.

[rogerstg]

I have run .490 round balls through a Lee .452 sizer for slugging. Works as long as your barrel isn't larger than that.

I've taken .452 bullets and squeezed them in a vise to bring them to ~.455/.460 for slugging. Same could probably be done for sized round balls.

[Love Life]

This Ruger 1911 of mine has a bevel on the start of the lands but it's ugly. Will having a nice throat put on a 1911 barrel for shooting cast affect its copper plated or J word performance?

No. It will maximize ease of loading with cast and jacketed/plated performance will be the same.

Your throat may be sharp and shaving your boolits as it enters the barrel. The only way I have ever leaded a 45 acp barrel was with .451 pure swaged RN boolits lubed with a waxy lube from speer.

[35remington]

Despite all the comments about what a good throat can do for you, rule Number One is to always shoot the barrel as is to determine how well it does, then only modify it if it is truly needed. Perceptions of what a throat is or is not must take second place to what happens when the barrel is shot.

You don't know that you have any issues yet. Don't proceed like you do until you prove it to beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Cowpoke]

I've taken .452 bullets and squeezed them in a vise to bring them to ~.455/.460 for slugging. Same could probably be done for sized round balls.

Thanks, Why didn't I think of that?

[beroen]

Hey 9.3x62al


So I made a slug with a once fired case and expanded the mouth.. it came out about .460 and after it came out to .451 on the grove diameter. So I should shoot .453 boolets?

The dies I use are lee I'll measure my expander and report back, when I am loading my 230g LRN that are .451 or the SWC I had that are .453. I have the TC die backed out so it just takes the end of the neck back down to .470-.474

And I am using one rcbs die to seat bullets and one Lee bullet seat die TC

Is it true that shooting a FMJ pushes a lot of leading out the barrel ?


Thanks

[beroen]

Oh yea and I had pretty bad leading again with the .453 SWC, a chore boy in copper wrapped around a .38 bronze brush worked real good. Any opinion of the Lewis lead remover? These 200g SWC shoot like freaking tack drivers so I really don't want to stop just because of the lead.

But I also didn't like the pile lead flakes that looked like they would become airborne on my cleaning plate

[9.3X62AL]

The Chore Boy/bore brush method is just as good at removing lead as the Lewis Lead Remover is. No advantage to either one.

Did the .451" 230 grain LRN bullets put down any leading? If not, perhaps all cast bullets should be sized at .451". How well do the .451"/230 grainers shoot? I don't use jacketed bullets to remove lead--it might remove most of the deposits, but can also iron on lead to the barrel surface and make it a chore to remove. If these .453" 200 grainers shoot well and remain accurate, most things are going well.

What sort of lube types are used on the two types of bullet you are using, and how much?

.452" sizing has worked on 45 ACP barrels for over 100 years in 98% of .451" barrel grooves. 45 ACP barrels are phenomenally uniform if made in North America.

[beroen]

The 230rn are mostly sized to 452 and lubed with sticky red stuff the 200 SWC have a hard blue lube. I don't really know how the 230rn leaded but I shot 100 of them and about 60 230 FMJ and there was virtually no lead in the barrel when I cleaned it. I think I am just going to have to go out and shoot about 30 and check the barrel.

[Char-Gar]

I have been shooting various 1911 pistols for 50 years and have yet to slug a barrel. You can count on them being .450 - .451 +-.0005. I size all cast bullets .452 and be done with it.

In point of fact any cast bullet from .451 - .453 will work just fine in 99.9% of the barrels. Any leading is coming from some other source other than the sizing diameter.

This "slug the barrel" stuff is way overdone!

[sagamore-one]

I agree with Char-Gar.
I have cast and shot 45acp for over 50 years and almost always size to .452 . In 38/357 I size .358, and in 44 I size .430.