Is the .380 obsolete?

[Katya Mullethov]

I would likely start center-mass and march northward until the concept dawned permanently on the recipient. One less B.S. statement for the cops to listen to that way.

Me and the old lady do a modified Mozambique ...most of the time . One low , two high , repeat . Always screw a couple or three Ranch Dogs into the loud mouth first , that's our theory at least .

[9.3X62AL]

Ammo sales figures by caliber--of loaded factory ammo--likely give a very skewed idea of "how many of what caliber" are actually being fired by the shooting public. Bullet casting and cartridge reloading are only two of the factors that can "*****" such results drastically. I surely wouldn't want to draw conclusions about ammo sales figures from my own ammo consumption over the last 10-12 years. Well under 5% of my ammo usage has involved factory loads, and much of that was in agency/CCW quals--in which I rotate out my carry ammo by firing it off. For sporting or training venues a factory round nearly never gets called upon--other than rimfires--and the shortage of those supplies has REALLY slowed my consumption of those ammo types markedly. Frankly, centerfire cast boolit loads are cheaper to make and much more readily available for use, and are completely recyclable in the bargain.

[9.3X62AL]

Me and the old lady do a modified Mozambique ...most of the time . One low , two high , repeat . Always screw a couple or three Ranch Dogs into the loud mouth first , that's our theory at least .

The closest loads I have on hand currently to the 380 ACP are the 32 ACP and the 9mm Makarov. In both I use blunt-profile RN cast boolits for most of my shooting, #311252 and the RCBS 365-100 RN respectively. When I used the Mak socially (pre-HR 218 fashion) I had full-value 95 grain HP factory loads running 1100 FPS on board, and thought highly of the combination. I have Speer Gold Dot loads on hand for the 32 ACP, but didn't trust them after chronography for social engagements; they barely managed 900 FPS with the lightened HP bullet. Both pistols are now relegated to small game and varmint venues as sports pistols, so the impetus to refine their anti-hairball attributes have faded for me. A truncated-cone bullet design--cast or jacketed--would probably reap a net benefit for all the pocket blowbacks in any venue as a critter or goblin stopper. The RN castings do well enough for my uses now as field items. I haven't seen the need to re-enlist the 380 ACP as a carry or sport caliber, in spite of its approved status as a CCW caliber by my old agency. There's no there there, as Gertrude Stein would say.

[WallyM3]

Ammo sales figures by caliber--of loaded factory ammo--likely give a very skewed idea of "how many of what caliber" are actually being fired by the shooting public. Bullet casting and cartridge reloading are only two of the factors that can "*****" such results drastically. I surely wouldn't want to draw conclusions about ammo sales figures from my own ammo consumption over the last 10-12 years. Well under 5% of my ammo usage has involved factory loads, and much of that was in agency/CCW quals--in which I rotate out my carry ammo by firing it off. For sporting or training venues a factory round nearly never gets called upon--other than rimfires--and the shortage of those supplies has REALLY slowed my consumption of those ammo types markedly. Frankly, centerfire cast boolit loads are cheaper to make and much more readily available for use, and are completely recyclable in the bargain.

I see your point, but I wonder what portion of the shooting population reloads? Or loads from scratch (like many of us do). And the extent to which the proportion of shooters to loaders has been stable over any given time, if indeed it is stable. Maybe ceteris paribus, could not a reasonable working assumption be derived.

I think it's easy to over-think the thing. The .380 is useful, viable and popular for readily graspable reasons, and, I suspect, will remain popular in spite of our debates over its theoretical merits.

Put otherwise, if the proportion of loaders to buyers remains materially constant, then sales figures could represent actual behavior. Unless it's the gub'ment that's buying the stuff.

I, speaking only about personal preference, would not care to walk towards a few fired rounds of this particular round.

[Newtire]

I even offered to make a gentlemen's wager of my Jaguar convertible against his Dodge Cummins.
Rich

Is that the Jaguar pickup 4X4 model?

I really wish people would stop shooting those 9mm's at the range. It makes finding my little bitty .380's a beotch!

[Bret4207]

I knew a guy who had a BG get him down on his back and the BG was winning the struggle for his issue revolver. The way the guy told it was, "... so I reached into my pocket, got the NAA mini out, screwed it into his ear and that was the end of the story." Most people object strenuously to being shot no matter what you're using.

[9.3X62AL]

I knew a guy who had a BG get him down on his back and the BG was winning the struggle for his issue revolver. The way the guy told it was, "... so I reached into my pocket, got the NAA mini out, screwed it into his ear and that was the end of the story." Most people object strenuously to being shot no matter what you're using.

I do make an effort to avoid being shot, that's a certainty. One GOOD method of avoidance is to not conduct yourself in a manner that poses direct threats to others. Many former clients of both Bret and I can't quite make that leap of faith, though. Imagine that--the AUDACITY of taxpaying citizens to object in armed fashion to being robbed, carjacked, raped, or aggravatedly assaulted. I'm referring to a recent incident in Reading, PA that got some national press play when the mother of one of two goblins objected to her son being issued his toe tag by a CCW citizen; both store robbers (armed) got a richly-deserved and well-earned DIRT NAP. The Trayvon Effect, by which thug predators feel entitled to victimize without victim recourse. OOPS.

[JeffG]

I do make an effort to avoid being shot, that's a certainty. One GOOD method of avoidance is to not conduct yourself in a manner that poses direct threats to others. Many former clients of both Bret and I can't quite make that leap of faith, though. Imagine that--the AUDACITY of taxpaying citizens to object in armed fashion to being robbed, carjacked, raped, or aggravatedly assaulted. I'm referring to a recent incident in Reading, PA that got some national press play when the mother of one of two goblins objected to her son being issued his toe tag by a CCW citizen; both store robbers (armed) got a richly-deserved and well-earned DIRT NAP. The Trayvon Effect, by which thug predators feel entitled to victimize without victim recourse. OOPS.

HAHAHA, Dirt Nap, I love it.

[Bret4207]

I do make an effort to avoid being shot, that's a certainty. One GOOD method of avoidance is to not conduct yourself in a manner that poses direct threats to others. Many former clients of both Bret and I can't quite make that leap of faith, though. Imagine that--the AUDACITY of taxpaying citizens to object in armed fashion to being robbed, carjacked, raped, or aggravatedly assaulted. I'm referring to a recent incident in Reading, PA that got some national press play when the mother of one of two goblins objected to her son being issued his toe tag by a CCW citizen; both store robbers (armed) got a richly-deserved and well-earned DIRT NAP. The Trayvon Effect, by which thug predators feel entitled to victimize without victim recourse. OOPS.

I don't know how many people have been on the wrong end of a gun before, but every time I read some hairy chested he man type in Mall Ninja Monthly go on and on about how anything not starting with a "4" not being adequate to stop, say, a home burglary, I know that chances are he's never looked down the muzzle of a 22 and wondered if his bowels were about to void themselves.........

[9.3X62AL]

Yes sir--either that response, or the opposite extreme--in which a straight pin could not be driven through said orifice with a 10# sledge hammer.

[1Shirt]

Sure is hard to disagree with Bret! Even a 22 bbl facing you tends to look real big, and anybody who has never faced a loaded gun, regardless of cal or gage, will have a rude awakening when and if they do have to face one! It is one thing to pre judge without experiencing a situation, and quite another to have a damp or dirty spot on your clothes when it occurs!
1Shirt!

[9.3X62AL]

Reminds me of a story......young man at the Portola Avenue Circle K store that worked swing shift--good young guy, college student striving mightily (and subsequently succeeding) to raise himself out of the ghetto. He made the best coffee in Palm Desert, too. Bar none.

One fine evening, he got held up. Silent alarm call goes out, we're busy as hell 10 calls deep but break away and haul *** for the in-progress run. IIRC I was 2nd on-scene, and the perp had cleared off about a minute before the first car got on-scene. ITW--in the wind, no vehicle seen going away, but tire noise was heard seconds after the dude bailed. DAMMIT!

I get assigned the report, and interview the clerk--who is understandably in the shook-up-and-pissed-off mindset that most such victims feel at such times.

Me--(about the third or fourth question in the string) "Can you tell me what the guy looked like?"

Clerk--"Look like? LOOK LIKE?? Mr. Paine, that white dude looked like A MOTHERF---IN' HOWITZER IN REEBOKS, that's what he LOOKED LIKE!"

Succinctly put.

[grumman581]

Sure is hard to disagree with Bret! Even a 22 bbl facing you tends to look real big, and anybody who has never faced a loaded gun, regardless of cal or gage, will have a rude awakening when and if they do have to face one! It is one thing to pre judge without experiencing a situation, and quite another to have a damp or dirty spot on your clothes when it occurs!

You will either man up and do what is necessary or you will end up thinking about what you could have / should have done for the rest of your life. Looking back at it after all these years, I have to say that it was probably worth getting shot to be able to look myself in the mirror, knowing that I will stand up for what is right. Of course, I do have the satisfaction of knowing that I did more damage to him than he did to me and he didn't escape. Unfortunately for me though, if he had had a more reliable gun or ammo, I would have ended up with a bullet in the face.

Sure, a .380 can kill someone. It has the penetration and a proper shot will do the job. But will an improper shot still stop the person? I know that a .38 did not stop me when I felt my life in danger. The adrenaline was up and I didn't even know I had been shot until after the police came to take him off to jail. A .380 is less powerful than a .38. I really suspect that I would have "noticed" being shot with a .357mag or a .45 though.

[w0fms]

I haven't seen factory 380 ACP here in Eastern Iowa on any store shelf for about 6 months. 45 ACP, 40 S&W, 9mmx19 even 22LR I've seen and bought on occasion recently. I've been told 380 is now the "hardest to get" ball ammo from several stores. So it must be popular....

[9.3X62AL]

Lotta truth to what you say, Grumman. I could have done without the 20 gauge round to face and head, and it DID upset my family a lot. As you say, though, now I know that training and prep pays off.

[grumman581]

Lotta truth to what you say, Grumman. I could have done without the 20 gauge round to face and head, and it DID upset my family a lot. As you say, though, now I know that training and prep pays off.

Were you hunting with Dick Cheney?

In my case, it wasn't training and prep -- otherwise, I would have been armed. I just figured that since he was very close, all I had to do was grab the barrel and point it away from me and he could not shoot me. I didn't take into account that he would fall backwards when I grabbed the gun, causing me to release it, and he would shoot at that time. From that point on, it was nothing like the fights you see in the movies. It was more like the greased pig capture / wrestling that you see them have for the kids at the country fairs. The main thing that the incident taught me was to be aware of my surroundings and to not trust anyone.

[Newtire]

The consumer average consumer will always want the lowest price.

As for your 32-20, does anyone actually make any firearms chambered in that?

I don't think that anyone who casts their own is an average consumer anyway. A .32-20 would be a great open carry gun for hiking out in the woods. You make your own ammo. A .380 would be a little better than a .22 short or a .25ACP I'd think for sure. 8-shots out of a .380 ought to slow someone down if they were intent on doing bodily harm. These are just closeup encounter type weapons anyway. I feel more comfortable these days with my .380. An extra mag. in the pocket brings the total to 15 shots. Hope I never have to find out if it is adequate!

[9.3X62AL]

HA HA! No, Mr. Cheney was not on scene that particular evening.

I'm not sure there is any such thing as a "classic" firefight. They are ALL clusterf---s on some level.

[Rick Hodges]

HA HA! No, Mr. Cheney was not on scene that particular evening.

I'm not sure there is any such thing as a "classic" firefight. They are ALL clusterf---s on some level.

Amen Brother....way to much happening way too fast without half enough information and they are way too f___ing loud.

I'm of the airtight sphincter type....

Although I was gratified to overhear a miscreant that was arrested in raid on a dope house.....I was carrying a BS 1911 Colt Series 70....the muzzle was polished like a mirror, as I entered the room he was reaching for a shotgun on the floor next to him....He took one look at the muzzle of that Colt and his eyes grew to the size of saucers and complied with my every order.....another officer was interviewing him and his description of the incident was priceless....I did get his undivided attention.

[grumman581]

HA HA! No, Mr. Cheney was not on scene that particular evening.

I'm not sure there is any such thing as a "classic" firefight. They are ALL clusterf---s on some level.

In my particular incident, I don't think it could technically be classified as a "firefight" since he was the only one who had a gun. All I had was testosterone and youth which probably made me rather oblivious to what *could* have happened. Of course, that was back in the "good old days" when the punks asked you for your money BEFORE they shot you. Ever hear of a town in the LA area called "Compton"? Well, *I* was probably the only person in the LA area that *didn't know* that you don't pull off the freeway at midnight for a burger around there. Sometimes, Darwin is asleep on the job...