Continuing Saga of Micro-Grooved H&R Handi-Rifle

[Thumbcocker]

Some No. 1 Ruger .45-70's have a tight spot under the sling swivel band. Ruger replaced the barrel on mine and things got a lot better.

[Misfire99]

In any case, if mine will shoot, so should yours.

This statement makes me wonder how much experience you have shooting. Are you paying attention to what other people are posting??? Others have had rifles from H&R, some shoot and some don't. Something that I have noticed is everybody that's happy with the forty five seventy from H&R have the Buffalo Classic, isn't that what you have snuffy? Well folks the Buf Classic has a barrel that is ten inches longer then mine. You think that might have something to do with it snuffy??

I started with H&R by buying a Huntsman 50 cal muzzle loader. This is a very nice rifle. Shoots sweet. The huntsman was my first experience with H&R. I really like the 45/70 so I bought the Handi-Rifle. I do think it's a nice rifle but mine needs some work.

A number of people say I should just sell the rifle. I wouldn't do a thing like that. I think it's dishonest to sell something without full discloser of it's problems. And if I tell people that it keyholes at fifty yards who would buy it??

It will be interesting to see what happens wit H&R when they put the new barrel on this one. I wonder if they will take the time to check if the rifling on the one they put on is better then this one.

[snuffy]

Exactly! That was what was recommended here for me to try in my 45/70 H&R buffalo classic. here's the results;

That's from my post with the target I scanned. Yes the barrel is longer, so what? The point I was making is my rifling is the SAME as yours, and it is NOT microgroove rifling. Marlin microgroove rifling has multiple grooves and lands like longbow said 12 grooves,(or more for larger bores), mine has 8 lands and grooves.

As for my shooting experience, I'm 61, I started shooting my brothers Crossman pellet gun at age 7. I started loading in 1965 and casting in 1973.

When I get a new rifle or any other type weapon, I certainly don't try just one bullet with a few different powders and say there's something wrong with my barrel. If that were the case, I would have already given up on my buff classic, at first it wouldn't shoot anything I tried. Other than those dreaded J-bullets.

Do everybody a favor, try some of those pure lead boolits in the handi rifle. I think you'll be surprised!

[Scrounger]

And if I tell people that it keyholes at fifty yards who would buy it??

Some damn fool who thinks he's smarter than anyone else and can fix it. Believe me, there are people like that out there!

[snuffy]

And if I tell people that it keyholes at fifty yards who would buy it??

Some damn fool who thinks he's smarter than anyone else and can fix it. Believe me, there are people like that out there!

Well, I used to work in a gunshop. There was this fella that bought a 50 cal Thompson center Hawken smokepole. He SAID he tried everything he could, the rifle just would not group. So the boss had TC replace the barrel, he took the old one to keep.

Since I had a 45 Hawken, the 50 barrel would fit right on my stock. He gave it to me! Fer nuthin! I took it out with TC sabots, and 45 cal 240 gr. xtp hollow points. It shot very well! it shoots darn near everything real well.

So was the barrel defective? To the first owner it was, he was doing something wrong.

[Leftoverdj]

Something that I have noticed is everybody that's happy with the forty five seventy from H&R have the Buffalo Classic, isn't that what you have snuffy? Well folks the Buf Classic has a barrel that is ten inches longer then mine. You think that might have something to do with it snuffy??

...


It will be interesting to see what happens wit H&R when they put the new barrel on this one. I wonder if they will take the time to check if the rifling on the one they put on is better then this one.

Eh?

Both of mine have 22" barrels. I'm happy.

As multiple people have told you, the specs you have given for your barrel are pretty much standard for H&R. If they do give you a new barrel, it will be much the same.

[HORNET]

Misfire,
Check the throating on that barrel. I think H&R buy their reamers from the same people as Thompson-Center and the throat angle is so sharp that it does major damage to the boolits on their way into the bore. If you look up on the 'Shooters' forum at the stickies, you'll find one by Finn45 titled "Throat Lapping a Buffalo Classic" that has some very nice pictures of before and after. FWIW, lots of cast boolit match shooters like about a 1-2 degree/side throat just .001 or .002 larger at the entry than the boolits that their using. That lets the boolit evenly squeeze down with minimal damage. Those 45 degree chamfers that H&R (and T/C) claim are throats are rough on projectiles.
Note: Back in Fouling Shot #180, Ed Harris claimed that he'd rechambered T/C .357 barrels to a 1-1/2 degree/side taper out to full case diameter and got 50% group size reductions with 38 wadcutters despite an extremely long jump to the rifling.

[drinks]

I hate to be this way, but after reviewing the 3 sections of the thread and taking notes, I feel 99 is either under the influence of medication or is pulling our legs.
I have a Handi .45-70, it is .452x 4565 and I COULD be bothered to get out my mike, not make wag's with a caliper.
I have shot groups under 5/8" at 50 yds with it and some 4" at 25 yds too, just depends on the bullet and the powder.
99 started out with a .454 groove dia., then went to .452x.457, bore and groove, then went back to a .4545 bore again, all this with a caliper. Does he know the difference between groove and bore?
He must be the world's best caliper reader.

I have a very hard time taking this seriously.

[Scrounger]

That thought occurred to me also. He seemed more interested in having conversation about it than fixing it.

[Leftoverdj]

There is something I am noticing about a few people here. You have serious personal problems. You want to try and degrade me because you have a hard time being up front with anybody. That is why you don't follow what I have written. All of the guys that are being A holes are all taking only some of what I say and not all of it. I wonder if it's just you aren't smart enough to read clearly or are you evil and trying to spread discord?? I hate to say it but so far I think you are evil. You are not friendly. You try to make yourselves look bigger then you are by tearing others down. This is a personal problem that I bet you have had all your lives. I had cancer, it is now cured. You have mental illness that is untreatable. Which one of us is really sick???

Actually, this is the friendliest, politest, most knowlegeable group of people that I have had the pleasure of being associated with in my life. There is not a one of us who has not given and recieved help in gun related matters. Drinks cut and sent out reamers at no charge to fix faulty group buy moulds. JohnH has several times sent me bullets for some of my odder projects. Misfire has been offered free bullets that are known to work well in H&R barrels. I believe Snuffy has honchoed group buys, a major unpaid donation of time and effort.

This thread has had the benefit of several hundred years of collective cast bullet experience from shooters who have used dozens of H&R barrels with hundreds of loads. I've corresponded with some of them for years and respect their knowlege.

They are not the problem.

[waksupi]

There is something I am noticing about a few people here. You have serious personal problems. You want to try and degrade me because you have a hard time being up front with anybody. That is why you don't follow what I have written. All of the guys that are being A holes are all taking only some of what I say and not all of it. I wonder if it's just you aren't smart enough to read clearly or are you evil and trying to spread discord?? I hate to say it but so far I think you are evil. You are not friendly. You try to make yourselves look bigger then you are by tearing others down. This is a personal problem that I bet you have had all your lives. I had cancer, it is now cured. You have mental illness that is untreatable. Which one of us is really sick???

This type of exchange is unwelcome here. You may find some other board more to your liking, since you don't care for the style here.

After reading more of this guys posts, he is now history.

[jack19512]

Just to show how easy the train can jump the track here is what happened to me yesterday. Deer season is in here in KY. I got up at 5:30 AM so I could get to my spot I had picked out the day before.

It was starting to become light and I heard a little noise down the hill from me so I thought I had better take a view through the scope just to make sure I had enough light in case I had to make a shot.

Well, I couldn't make out crap, at first I thought my scope had fogged up on the outside of the lens. I wiped the lens off and had no improvement. I then thought something had caused my scope to fog up on the inside.

Thank goodness I didn't have to take a shot. As daylight came I realized my scope hadn't fogged up but being carried on my ATV evidentially knocked the scope out of alignment permanently, insert cheap scope here.

I went to my local Walmart and purchased a new Nikon scope to go on my H&R Buffalo Classic and proceeded to sight the new scope in. I only had 10 rounds of my cast reloads but thought that would be sufficient to sight the scope in.

Wrong, what had been a very good shooter and what had been doing very well with my cast reloads turned horrible. My groups were terrible. A pattern more like a shotgun. My first thought was I had got a defective scope. I never got the rifle sighted in and had planned on returning the scope for an exchange.

But, that night I thought I would clean my barrel even though I hadn't had any trouble with leading with my cast bullets. Oh my gosh, I haven't seen so much lead in a barrel in my life. It took me an hour to get the lead out of the barrel.

Now, this has been a long boring story and when I tell you the only difference I had made in the previous rounds that had been very successful in my Buffalo Classic you are going to think I am nutty.

I recently purchased a Marlin lever action 45/70 Cowboy rifle and had planned on or hoped that I could use the same rounds in both my 45/70's now but the way the lever action rounds load I thought it best to wipe the lube off the face of the cast bullets as not to make a mess of the loading gate of my new Marlin.

I swear that is the only change that I had made to these previously great performing bullets. To say that I am puzzled would be an understatement. Tonight I have loaded up some more of my cast bullets and will not wipe them off this time and see how it goes tomorrow.

[Ricochet]

I've had some rifle loads that shot better with the bore riding nose completely dipped in melted lube. Or coated all over with LLA.

[Scrounger]

Here we go again, another mystery. Nikon is a good scope; if the load was accurate before, first thing I would check is all mount screws. I wouldn't have a clue as to why it is now leading. OH!! The old scope was damaged in a fall or something? Maybe the barrel or bedding was damaged too. Still doesn't explain leading.....

[jack19512]

Still doesn't explain leading.....

Like I said, these cast loads were working very well for me and had never showed any sign of leading before. All I did different was to wipe the bullet nose off of the Lee liquid alox I use. I had already shot quite a few of these loads through my B/C with no problems at all. I knew right off that something was wrong with the first patch I run down the barrel. I could feel the roughness as I pushed the patch down the barrel. I doubt there is anything wrong with the new scope or mounts.

[jack19512]

Got to take my Buffalo Classic out today and shoot some. It finally quit raining but it was windy and cold, it was trying it's best to snow. This time I never wiped the cast bullets off and they did very well. No leading at all that I could tell. I am a happy camper again. I never knew that just wiping the nose area off of lube would make so much difference.

I got to shoot my new Marlin 45/70 Cowboy too. I like it a lot and it's a little early to tell but I think it is going to be a good shooter also. As I suspected nothing wrong with the new Nikon scope or mounts. I think I will just shoot jacketed in the Marlin and cast in my B/C.

[leftiye]

Good Deal! I've been nursing a suspicion for a while now that some surface lube LLA, castor wax on the rest of the boolit would help out in the engraving and forcing cone, and chamber mouth/throat portions of boolit travel. This thread and some others seem very much to support that (maybe prove it). 6.5s seem to benefit from lubed noses (not always maybe). Looks like you didn't have enough lube without what you wiped off.