Whose responsibility?

[migtek02]

I bought 60lbs of lead from a fellow caster here and I received all of the lead he sent but it was repackaged and I also received a letter from the post office saying the package was damaged (they did not know if anything was missing). I have orders other items via USPS and the boxed arrive damaged and contents spilled in the box. I don't believe any of the have been improperly boxed for shipping but I have seen these guys drop boxes out of the back of the mail trucks and hear them yelling and throwing boxes around at the main post office terminal in big D.
As a kid my dad was a member of the Knigths of Columbus and a fellow member was our mailman he lamented before retiring the system was moving to contract some jobs out to guys who did not care much about doing the right thing. No offense to current mailmen but speaking from my own experience.

[shooter93]

I'm probably the odd man out but anytime I ship anything of what I consider a decent value I always ship it insured and I pay for it....not the buyer. Why?....because I believe it's incumbent upon the seller to do everything possible to see you got your merchandise. If anyone here bought from any supplier....Midway, Midsouth etc and the package didn't arrive you would expect a refund or the products you paid for.

[chambers]

I had a similar experience here for some lead, when I received box it was in the USPS plastic tote with all the contents out of box, the box was light in weight but by the time I went back to seller or the USPS all I would have done is create more lost time and energy. Sometimes you just have to move on or work it out with the seller.

[gon2shoot]

Just a reminder. S&S is here for the benefit of the members, all dealings are between buyer and seller. The site or the mods have no part of sales, that said, we will help wherever we can, but have no real "authority" to make things right.

[boltons75]

I had bought a receiver hitch drop bar for my equalizing hitch on time, the seller said it was shipped in a medium flat rate box. I had to pick it up from the post office, and they wanted me to pay extra because it was not in a usps flat rate box. After taking to the post office, and the seller, who guaranteed me that it was shipped in s flat rate box, I paid the extra just to get my product. I opened it in front of them, and inside the brown box was what was left of the flat rate box with my drop bar. Someone repackaged it somewhere along the way after it got damaged, I did get money back when they realized it was the usps's error.

[fryboy]

the receipt should ( as previously stated ) show the weight , most of us know that lead is heavy and has to be well packed but yeah i've received some lite weight packages that were mangled ( gee they werent that way when mailed but i digress )
one of the beauties of this forum is the good guy thread , while most of us honor our deals ( ie;not all the good guys get mentioned in the good guy thread ) quite often a mention of being packed well lets a person know how good the people they are mentioning packs ( sadly i also have to admit that i dont always mention that it was packed great ..oops , but sometimes i do ) another thing that applies is "caveat emptor" , again things mostly go right but every good deal we do also moves the chance of that one bad one closer ( it's a percentage thing ) worse there's always bad days , i've sent a few very well packed items out to have them arrive mangled with some stuff missing . the very best tip i can give is that if it's heavy try real hard to make sure that there isnt any room for movement , something heavy and in motion tends to stop abruptly , in the case of cheap cardboard ..well it can go right thru the box

[waksupi]

As was said, staff has absolutely nothing to do with selling or trading here. You are on your own, until proof should show some one reneged. At that time, our only real option is to remove the person from the board. Up until that time, we have no interest or need for action.

[4719dave]

po HATES HEAVY BOXES OF LEAD ......caught girl at the counter push my 50 lb boxes off the self onto the floor she didnt know i was still in the po WOW DID SHE GET A SURPRISE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!double boxes hot glues together with sm flat rt boxes full of ingots then no space in the boxes with alot of hd packing take all sides of the boxes and INSURED wow made it .....

[starmac]

Before christmas I mailed an aluminum lee press out in a flat rate box. What does these things weigh 1 1/2 pound maybe. It got there in one piece, but the box was mangled and it was hanging out. One never knows what all a box will go through before it is delivered, but lead has to be reinforced pretty well to have a chance of making it.

[dnotarianni]

the receipt should ( as previously stated ) show the weight ,

If shipped flat rate there will be no weight on the package especially if it had a shipping label printer and per paid at home.
I never ship without insurance with the PO. The 1.75 or 2 change insures that the package will get delivered and not lost due to some public servant that don't like picking up 50#-70# flat rate boxes.

As far as responsibilty goes if insurance was offered and declined then it is on the buyer, if no mention was made of insurance then it is on the seller.
dave

[xfoxofshogo]

i got some lead one time they stuck it in a placit been with handles it came apart nothing missing but the box it was in was a mess and it was tape good

[keyhole]

I have bought lead through several transactions on this site. All of the boxes look like they went through a pretty rough trip. Bought some metal from sponsor Rotometal. It was double cardboard boxed but still one of the boxes was open when it arrived. All of the lead made it though, fortunately. On another purchase the seller made a nice wooden crate, which was placed inside the Flat Rate box. Even that came apart, I guess because the wood was stapled instead of screwed. Again, all the lead was there somehow. If I ever ship any lead I would used a wooden crate screwed together inside the Flat Rate box.
The mail person won't even attempt to deliver to my house. I have to go to Post Office and boy do most of them complain there about the weight.

[Revolver]

Sounds like you got it worked out.

I sold some lead ONCE. It arrived as an empty box, I refunded the money, learned my lesson. Postal workers across the US must be tripping over lead bars all day every day in these sorting facilities.

[Springfield]

I have either mailed or bought 40 boxes of lead and they have all made it, although some just barely. Insurance is a waste of time for things like this, you have to fight for your money. I shipped a box of bullets last month and it was, as far as we can tell, delivered to the wrong house. I had Delivery Confirmation on it but all that tells you is SOMEONE got it. I will ship them a new box. They paid, they didn't get it, I don't insure so it is on me. We are still researching the lost box. They claimed it was signed for at 8:10 in the morning, yet the buyers mailman says he doesn't even leave the office until 10:00. Not even sure why anyone would sign, it was only Delivery Confirmation, not Signature Confirmation. So someone is lying to us, somewhere.

[RP]

Well looks like all the bases are covered in this thread. That being said I must put my two cents in. I have sold a lot of lead on the site boxed many ways. Some were wrapped in a siding wrap which is a very tough material. Others ingots were boxed in wood and sprayed in some expanding foam. But by the time I cut plywood glue it up wrap it in house wrap use foam and tape the box covering it on all sides pay insurance shipping and tracking. I have had boxes lost to never be found others showed up in a new box and people upset for not getting the lead. All want to know what I am going to do. Think about it what else do you want me to do ? Well I have sent out more lead for free at a lost to myself and just asked if they are willing to pay shipping. So if I lose one box of lead I have to sell several more to make up for it. I have 5 boxes of lead sitting in the shop boxed ready to mail and I just do not feel up to dealing with it. The best thing I can say is insurance is good they most likely wont pay but it sure helps make sure they take better care of it.

[EDG]

>>>As far as responsibilty goes if insurance was offered and declined then it is on the buyer, if no mention was made of insurance then it is on the seller. <<<
No --- this policy is not reasonable since it would allow a seller to avoid liability if the item is not packaged well.
If the buyer does not buy insurance the seller should and include it in the cost of shipping.

I once got a box that was supposed to have 500 bullets for a 38-55 in it. The lazy seller just taped up the original retail box and mailed it to me. I got a box with the corners blown out and about 50 bullets.
This was in no way my fault. The buyer refunded the entire purchase price.

[wickerbill]

The mail person won't even attempt to deliver to my house. I have to go to Post Office and boy do most of them complain there about the weight.

Ya, the same thing has happened to me the last two times I ordered lead. It came in and I got a notice in my mail box that my package was not deliverable and I needed to come to the post office and pick it up. When I went to the PO the guy behind the counter took my sli[p and went in the back, he came out cussing. He cominsed to giving me a lecture about this being an abuse of the system and I should be ashamed of my self. When he said that, I lafted at him and just told him to weigh it. He went back to cussing. He weight it and it was 67 pounds. I simplie told him, see it's under the 70 pound limit. I don't make the rules, your bosses in Washington do. Then I asked to see the post master. When he came out I reported him for the two cussing incedents and everyone in the PO started clapping.(He has sense found a new job.)
Bill

[wellfedirishman]

Going through this right now on another forum where a seller claimed he shipped a rifle, but without tracking/insurance, even though I requested both and paid extra for both. He 'forgot' to add them.

Bottom line is use your camera-phone (most phones have cameras now) to take a picture of the package you mail with the contents, and the address/stamps/tracking number on it at the post office. That way you can prove you mailed it and it was correctly addressed, etc. If the post office loses it, you at least have done your share and can prove it. And always use a tracking # if the item is worth more than $20. If the buyer wants insurance, they should request and pay for it.

[Blackhawk Convertable]

Legally, once the seller has delivered it to the shipping agency, his responsibility has been met. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Just what it is...

[Longone]

Legally, once the seller has delivered it to the shipping agency, his responsibility has been met. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Just what it is...

Agreed as long as the terms between the buyer and seller are met, ie. insurance, tracking, shipping type, etc. Some sellers will "forget" tracking #'s or ins. which was requested and agreed upon hoping all goes well in shipping. I, like several others have had lead show up in boxes that were in my opinion properly taped and the box looked like it saw field goal practice. The inside plastic bags were hanging out but amazingly not torn open and all the contents made it.
Stuff happens but I never seem to get a lighter weight box delivered that one of these heavy boxes fell on.

Longone