About to give up on trying to shoot cast in my rifle

[Fugowii]

A Rem 700 in 30-06. Tried 311291 and 311284 with various loads of 5744. Sized to .310". Butted the boolits right up against the lands. It's like shooting a musket ball out at 100 yards. I can barely keep the rounds on target (2'x3'). Only one question: Would sizing them larger, to say .311", make much of a difference?

Thanks,

F

[shooter93]

It could, slug the barrel and do a chamber cast to check dimensions. There is twist rate to consider, velocity And you have a plethora of powders to try etc. It can take some time but it's rare an 06 can't be made to shoot cast accecptably. I doubt 5744 would have been my first pick as a powder but you will get many "pet loads" from the folks here. Don't give up just yet.

[zomby woof]

Try a different powder, slower, with Dacron.

[slim1836]

I never got 5744 or IMR4895 to shoot well in my .308. I settled on Unique.

[Larry Gibson]

Fugowii

Assuming GC'd bullets;

Alloy?

Lube?

How much 5744?

Larry Gibson

[williamwaco]

I have never had any luck ( accuracy ) with

1) Any 30 cal rifle bullet less than .311.

2) Any rifle load of any caliber with the bullet touching the lands.

I don't know anything about that powder. ( Lyman seems to like it ).
I expect you are trying to run before you can walk. All the Lyman loads are in the almost 2000 fps range. That is too hot for a beginner to try as a first cast bullet load.

I always start with 8 or nine grains of Unique. That will give you around 1000 to 1200 fps in your .30-06. Unique is absolutely not sensitive to powder placement in the case so don't use a filler.

Try 20 of these. They should give you sub 6" at 100 yards. Then, you can start serious load development. When you can group in 3" at 100 yds., if you feel it necessary, start upping the velocity a little at a time.

[waksupi]

Yep, bigger boolit.

[ShooterAZ]

You could also try 10 grains of Unique, 13 grains of Red Dot, or 16 grains of 2400. If your rifle is not accurate with either of these three powder/loads combinations, something else is wrong. .310 (should be fine). What alloy & lube you are using might help answer more questions or solve problems. I just started using 5744, and so far have had decent results. Still need to do more load development.

[Fugowii]

Fugowii

Assuming GC'd bullets;

Alloy?

Lube?

How much 5744?

Larry Gibson

Gas Checked. Alloy is just shy of #2. Lube is Magma Lube. 28, 29, 30, 31 grs of 5744 in the 311284. 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 with the 311291. I went to the 311284 to see if the heavier boolit would make a difference. Didn't seem to. Rifle is slugged at a skoosh under .309".

[mpmarty]

Try 2400 powder and from 19 to 27 gr watch for pressure signs as you proceed.

[BCB]

I’m not an ’06 shooter so I really can’t say much about that cartridge…

I have only had marginal accuracy with 5744, with the exception of using it in the 270 Winchester…

I have had much better accuracy with 4759 which is in the same burning rate as 5744…

And why not try your reloads at a closer distance—say 50 yards?...

Might let you see a bit better what is going on, plus closer distances might give a bit more confidence with boolits being a bit closer in a group…

Find something that looks really good a 50 yards and then stretch it out to 100 yards…

I know that groups can be amazingly great at 50 yards and amazingly terrible at 100 yards. But, it might be worth a try…

Good-luck…BCB

[AviatorTroy]

Yes, 2400 is magic. Also read this...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13425

I don't shoot 30-'06 but in all my military rifles 10 gr of unique or 16-20 gr of 2400 go bang and with reasonable accuracy with straight ww alloy. I don't have a chrono but I'd bet I don't exceed 1800 fps with any of my rifle cast loads. So, not too hot but I go for accuracy not blasting power. That's what Nosler Partitions are for.

[HangFireW8]

A Rem 700 in 30-06. Tried 311291 and 311284 with various loads of 5744. Sized to .310". Butted the boolits right up against the lands. It's like shooting a musket ball out at 100 yards. I can barely keep the rounds on target (2'x3'). Only one question: Would sizing them larger, to say .311", make much of a difference?

Thanks,

F

Fugowii,

First, can you rule out for us that there isn't a systemic problem, like a bad scope, loose scope mount, badly shifting bedding, a bur or nick on the crown? For example, do you have any factory or j-word loads that work really well? Lately?

I concur with the advice to try "the load" (Red Dot) and 2400. I'm amazed how universally accurate these two powders are with cast boolits.

HF

[Larry Gibson]

Gas Checked. Alloy is just shy of #2. Lube is Magma Lube. 28, 29, 30, 31 grs of 5744 in the 311284. 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 with the 311291. I went to the 311284 to see if the heavier boolit would make a difference. Didn't seem to. Rifle is slugged at a skoosh under .309".

First off I agree with the .311 size as that is my "go to" sizing for .30 cals.

Second your loads of 5744 are too much for both bullets. If you really want to use 5744 suggest you try 19 - 24 gr (18 - 23 gr if you also use a 1/2 - 3/4 gr dacron filler) with the 311291. Try 20 - 26 gr (19 - 25 gr with the dacron filler) with the 311284.

Better yet try 4895 at 29 - 32 gr with the 1/2 - 3/4 gr dacron fillet under the 311284.

Larry Gibson

[Ben]

My friend shot this at about 80 yards yesterday .
Not certain how many rounds he fired, ...more than 5, I know ! !
30 - 06, 16.0 grs. 2400 with the 311290 sized .310".
( .310 will work in my friend's rifle...may or may not in yours ? ? )
YES, I'd definitely try 16.0 grs. of 2400.

[TCLouis]

Anyone have some real world velocities for the 16.0 grains of 2400 with 180-200 grain boolit

[Ben]

A guess on my behalf, I'd say around 1550 - 1600 or so.

Ben

[Larry Gibson]

A guess on my behalf, I'd say around 1550 - 1600 or so.

Ben

Concur with Ben.

Larry Gibson

[Bullshop]

First off I agree with the .311 size as that is my "go to" sizing for .30 cals.

Second your loads of 5744 are too much for both bullets. If you really want to use 5744 suggest you try 19 - 24 gr (18 - 23 gr if you also use a 1/2 - 3/4 gr dacron filler) with the 311291. Try 20 - 26 gr (19 - 25 gr with the dacron filler) with the 311284.

Better yet try 4895 at 29 - 32 gr with the 1/2 - 3/4 gr dacron fillet under the 311284.

Larry Gibson

I agree with Larry in that the load is too hot, especially for a non heat treated boolit of medium hard alloy.
Look at a burn rate chart and I think you will find 5744 very close in burn rate to 4227. Now look at suggested loads for 4227. In a 30/06 case at about any caliber using 4227 I start to get good groups at about 21gn.

[MBTcustom]

I understand you guys telling him to run slower but 1800?.....in an '06?.....Seriously? We can do better than that, he aint shooting a 30 carbine ya know!

First of all you need a bigger boolit.
Second you need a few boolits to try. Some are just dogs that don't like to shoot, but when you find the right one, its like the breath of life.
Third you need to pull a few of the boolits to make sure they are actually the size they are supposed to be when they get to the barrel.

My philosophy is to start with the speed that you would like to be shooting (as long as its less than 2600. 2400 is my go-to with .002-.003 oversize, pulled and measured, with 95Pb/3Sb/2Sn ) and try several different boolits. One boolit will present itself as the clear leader in the accuracy dept.
Next try several powders with that boolit, at that speed. One will present itself as better than the others.
Next mess with powder charges. You will find a sweet spot with that powder in a certain range.
Next mess with lube. Javelina, BAC, Bens Red, and above all FWFL are on my short list of good lubes. One will present itself as better than the others.
Finally, mess with seating depth. You will find the sweet spot and you should be under an inch at this point.
If you have done all of this, then maybe the problem is much simpler. Perhaps your crown is damaged? (if you like to use a bore snake a lot then this is a very real possibility)
When you slug your bore feel for loose spots and take note of where they are.
I had a model 70 once that was just a dog. I loaded and loaded for that rifle, and tried everything I knew how to do. The very best group I ever got was 4" at 100 yards. There might as well have been no rifling in that barrel at all, it was that bad. I wish I had not sold that gun as it still bugs me, but every now and then you get a lemon of a rifle.
The last pearl of wisdom I would impart to you, especially if yo follow my advice, is change only one thing at once!
If you change two or three things every time you are just chasing your tail. This is the part that takes discipline and patience (two things I am not good at, but have had to learn) you just can't get there without these two.
Cast boolits are not plug and play. There is skill involved here. But I can speak for many on this board who believe that the results are so rewarding (and I'm not talking about feel good feelings but real results!) that it makes it all worth it. Shoot your first deer with a cast boolit and you will know what I mean.
Jacketed bullets? They can kiss my lube grooves!