Something wrong!

[44man]

I told you fellas I was trying a new alloy by adding 1# of stereo type to 19# of WW's. It makes beautiful boolits, very easy to cast with.
It is not any harder then straight WW metal and they are the same diameter.
BUT!
They don't shoot! It is driving me crazy. I shot my BFR 45-70 at 100 yards and groups with the alloy run 2" to 3" every time.
Using just WW metal I keep shots into 1".
I can't catch any because my trap is full so I run into other boolits, it needs dumped and fluffed up. It is so heavy I can't dump it myself.
Maybe it is now too rich in tin, stereo is 7%.
I get zero leading in the gun, not a speck but something happens.
I often say to test alloys but just 1# to 19# and to see such a difference is a little too crazy. I shot near 50 of each and it was the same every time.

[felix]

Oh! Can you say "outa' balance"? Easily noticed using the little ones, like 22s. 15,000 rounds in the bench gun has proven that to me without doubt. Very few lots, say no more than 5 percent, have BR quality written all over them. ... felix

[newton]

Yea, I was thinking out of balance also. I was thinking that maybe(I am no metallurgist) the tin is 'congregating' to one side or the other in the boolit. Anyway you could test them for out of balance?

[Plinkster]

How would they get out of balance from a 5% alloy change? I don't doubt what you say I'm just curious about the mechanics of it. I'm about to try my hand at the little ones myself so getting a handle on the "why's" could save some head scratching down the road.

[dodgyrog]

If theboolits are harder and the load is small, there is a possibility the boolits are not upsetting (obturating) enough in the rifling. You could try a faster powder or more of the same powder.

[newton]

How would they get out of balance from a 5% alloy change? I don't doubt what you say I'm just curious about the mechanics of it. I'm about to try my hand at the little ones myself so getting a handle on the "why's" could save some head scratching down the road.

Trust me, this is just the first thought that came to my head and then I read that felix mentioned it(even if its not the same thing I'm talking about).

I think that personally the best way to test the theory is to see how it shoots up close and then also far away. From what I understand(which is little), unbalance shows its ugly head the further away you get. Most of the time it is also a lot more unpredictable(fliers) than just plain group size getting larger.

[44man]

If theboolits are harder and the load is small, there is a possibility the boolits are not upsetting (obturating) enough in the rifling. You could try a faster powder or more of the same powder.

Boolits are not harder and are .459". Same as WW's. I just checked a bunch and they run 17 to 18 BHN. My WW boolits run 18 to 19 BHN. My best WW boolits will be 22 BHN and they shoot best, had 3/4" at 100 many times.
Out of balance??? No way to test.
Weights are consistent.
Stereo lead is 15% antimony but the addition of 1# is nothing. Yet they are a little softer.
Throats are .4592" and groove is .458"
Now explain how the addition of stereo lead will make a boolit a BHN point softer????
Boolits are gas checked too.
I am at a loss here.

[44man]

Sounds crazy but can the boolits be too "slippery?"

[MBTcustom]

That's some hard WW alloy you got there.

[bumpo628]

I told you fellas I was trying a new alloy by adding 1# of stereo type to 19# of WW's.

With that mix, you're adding about 0.3% tin and 0.7% antimony to the composition of your existing alloy. That is assuming that the stereotype is not depleted.

[1Shirt]

It will be interesting to see IF there is an answer to this! Once in awhile, something happens that just can't be explained, and you have to move on.
1Shirt!

[44man]

With that mix, you're adding about 0.3% tin and 0.7% antimony to the composition of your existing alloy. That is assuming that the stereotype is not depleted.

Sounds right. But the casting ease and boolit perfection shows something is at work. The cold metal in the pot is whiter, if that is a good word, not the dull color, and it is cleaner looking, less dross too. It makes amazing boolts but what is going on in the barrel?

[Wayne Smith]

How long did they sit before you shot them? Adding Antimony requires a little time for them to come to full hardness. That's the only variable I can think of you haven't mentioned.

[nanuk]

here is my SWAG

as you add stereotype, you dilute the arsenic, and with BHN so high, I am going to assume you water drop.... so the quenching has less effect due to less arsenic....

just reaching here....

[44man]

How long did they sit before you shot them? Adding Antimony requires a little time for them to come to full hardness. That's the only variable I can think of you haven't mentioned.

Over two weeks before loading.

[44man]

here is my SWAG

as you add stereotype, you dilute the arsenic, and with BHN so high, I am going to assume you water drop.... so the quenching has less effect due to less arsenic....

just reaching here....

Maybe, I don't know if there is any arsenic in the type. But the amount is so low that I added it is screwy.

[felix]

Remember, the alloy changes, or the initiation of such, begins during the slush stage. And, we can assume the time of slush is proportional to the amount of possible alloy change, which is either good or bad. So, compare slush stage times with good shooting boolits versus bad shooting boolits. ... felix

[felix]

Slush time is the only reliable indicator, not the alloy constituents themselves. Arsenic or not, no slush time means absolutely no changes between a fluid state and solid state. ... felix

[Eutectic]

I think I tend to agree with Felix here. I have a lot of metallurgical background and believe me, lead alloys 'march' to the beat of their own drum. Sometimes small changes make much bigger changes in the solidification process. Add water drop hardening can also make very similar alloys react in a non linear way.

Bottom line in layman terms..... Some guns just don't like a particular alloy! I have had alloys just where I want them bhn wise and then not shoot in several guns. I tweak the alloy some (doesn't take a lot most times) or if a stubborn one use it as a blending agent (small percentages)

I don't like working with anything harder than linotype for a blending component.

It would be nice to know the exact elements (and %) present in your stereotype as well...

Things in there could make the the bhn correct and the alloy wrong for boolits..

Eutectic

[popper]

That is 95/4/1 Pb/Sb/Sn, not high tin. Plenty of As for hardening. Now if you made a mistake and added 1# tin, you get pretty CBs, whiter alloy and lousy shooting CBs. The Sb/As and Sn will give the hardness, but you will have 10% tin. Been there, done that, just not quite as bad.