Temp. of water/for water dropping

[gray wolf]

OK men ,
here's another of my unending questions.
Does the Temperature of the water effect the hardness of the bullet when we water drop ?
and how about the dept of the water the bullets fall through.
Seems like a good question to me, what say you.
I ask cause it seems when we oven harden the temp is important.
Julie in a fit of cleaning disposed of my old toaster oven that I had hidden in the shed.

[swheeler]

I'm sure it does to some degree, but small I would guess. If you raise the boiling point of the water(salt, lye, antifreeze) significantly that would harden better.

[Beagle333]

I'm gonna be watchin this close. I was wondering the same thing yesterday.

[ShooterAZ]

The temperature of the water increases a tad every time you drop a boolit in there anyway. I don't think it will matter.

[44man]

No, nothing at all. Even a few seconds difference in getting the boolit in the water means nothing. Heck, maybe a minute will not hurt.

[btroj]

I don't know. I do know my bucket of water gets much, much warmer as I continue to cast.
Short of using ice water, and keeping up the ice level over time, I am not sure how to keep a consistant temp.

[1Shirt]

I start with a bucket of cold water-----period. After that, there is a slight warming depending on what I am casting. If I am running 22's, seems like the water changes temp little if any in an hours casting. If however I am running a gang mold, and emptying a 20 lb. pot quickly, the water will be a touch on the warm side. Been doing it that way for many years, and it works for me, and don't think I will change.
1Shirt!

[MGySgt]

All I know is that the quicker you cool the boolit the harder it is.

Take for example casting and not WD the boolit. In the winter when the temp is about 30-35 degrees (Casting shed un heated) the boolits cool faster then when I cast in the summer and the temp is in the 80'-90's.

The air cooled boolits cast in the winter are a few BHN #'s harder than when I air cool the boolits in the summer. Does it matter for practice and general shooting? Not in my experience. 44Man will dissagree with me - he gets better accuracy with his WD boolits. It works for him, but not me.

To get the hardest possible boolit - Oven heat treat them with a temp for 1 hour at the point of a few degrees below their slump temp and quinch them in the coldest water you can get.

Is this really neccessary for a normal blasting boolit - I don't think so. If you were going to use say a 45/70 to take a Cape Buff when you want max pentration and only a limited riveting of the boolit - than yes I would take the extra steps and Oven Heat Treat my boolits.

If you are heat treating for a big Grizz or Polar maybe even a moose - than yes I would want the hardest possible boolit I could get for max velocity and penitration.

For the majority of the shooting/hunting we do - Water Droping them is just fine if you need the hardness.

The Elk I took with my 45/90 sure didn't need anything harder than air cooled WW at 1500 FPS that I used.

[Bigslug]

Anybody ever drop their slugs into liquid nitrogen?

Only partially -->

[gray wolf]

So I guess it may be OK to say that a bullet that works for normal paper and cans is OK as long as it works for you.
But there is no harm in tailoring your hunting bullets as needed for the game you are after.
Reason I ask is two fold, #1 the Moose here are quite big, and the black bear get to 450 - 500 pounds. The only bullet I have is the 429421 Kieth and it's only 250 grains.

[popper]

HT - get temp @ close to 450F. Cool RAPIDLY, you want to 'freeze' or get the heat out as fast as you can. Iced water will remove heat ~20% faster. AC is about 1.5F/sec, WD or HT ice water is ~40F/sec. You want the entire CB to be hardened, not just the surface - the middle hardens last. < 20% of the hardening occurs after quenching, those little molecules are still running around doing their thing. Don't drop in LOX! or LN2 unless YOU have good protection against the tinsel fairy.

[bobthenailer]

I think in the past someone did a test with room temp and chilled water with bullets dropped from the mould and the hardness BHN was the same with either senairo

[popper]

Surface only test! It also depends on the alloy, more material that WILL HT harden will make BHN higher..

[paul h]

It would be interesting to take two 5 gal buckets, fill one with ice water, the other with however hot the water comes out of your water heater. After getting your mold up to temp, drop a dozen bullets into each bucket, and use a decent size bullet 45 cal 400 gr minimum.

Let em age harden a month, then check surface hardness at the base of each bullet. Then cut every bullet in half and check hardness in the middle of them.

I'd rather spend my time casting and shooting so won't be performing such a test, but would be interested in the results.

[Danderdude]

DO NOT LEAVE ICE FLOATING IN YOUR CATCH BUCKET

When I was brand spankin' new to casting, I figured that if cool water was good, cold was better, right? So I sat down for my first real casting session, making Lee C312-155's and dropping them into a 5gal bucket with about an inch of ice floating on top. This went on for 6 hours. My initial inspection of the boolits were all satisfactory, until I went to dry them...

As I poured the silver onto towels for drying, I found a big surprise in the bottom: about 5 pounds of broken boolits. A full third of the boolits that weren't broken were at least visibly bent. When they are in the soft state, hitting an ice cube is enough to deform them. You can use ice to cool the water, but don't leave it standing or you'll find you wasted an afternoon in one of the least satisfying ways possible.

[btroj]

I only want the surface hardened. I want to be able to shoot a bullet that is lower in Sb at a higher velocity. This gives a bullet that may expand a bit but it will be tough and won't break up on bone.
If through hardness is wanted I can use straight Linotype or monotype. Bad thing isthe bullets will be hard, and brittle. It bone and they make fracture or break up. Water dropped wheel weights or even wheel weights/pure 50/50 will let me who as fast and the bullets won't break up.

Not really any different than steel. Glass hard but brittle isn't often the end goal. Hard and tough is desirable.

[375RUGER]

Don't drop in LOX! or LN2 unless YOU have good protection against the tinsel fairy.

Shouldn't have LOX near an ignition source and flamable materials anyway. But if you ever want to start a campfire fast, pour some LOX on the logs.

But LN2??? and the tinsel fairy???

What was your experience?



You can easily make a -50*F quench with anti-freeze/water or IPA and dry ice. If it's too slushy less dry ice or more liquid.

I just drop in a bucket of cool well water. I usually don't do more than 500 at a time.

[delt167502]

I hunted game on 5 continents,using mostly cast. cal. 35 - 475 I found if you use the proper weight and cal.it will do the job.for long range 300yds plus I always use jacketed . (wind deflection) The hardness ww ,gas checks,are the main thing. And hitting the target in the right place. As to water cooling ,I could never tell much diff.

[paul h]

I only want the surface hardened. I want to be able to shoot a bullet that is lower in Sb at a higher velocity. This gives a bullet that may expand a bit but it will be tough and won't break up on bone.
If through hardness is wanted I can use straight Linotype or monotype. Bad thing isthe bullets will be hard, and brittle. It bone and they make fracture or break up. Water dropped wheel weights or even wheel weights/pure 50/50 will let me who as fast and the bullets won't break up.

Not really any different than steel. Glass hard but brittle isn't often the end goal. Hard and tough is desirable.

I think you'll find that water quenched ww bullets are generally fairly hard throughout and when impacting at rifle velocities, have come apart.

You might want to try air cooled ww bullets for accuracy, water quenching isn't always the best way to go.

[btroj]

My point is that a "softer" alloy can be water dropped to give a harder surface and a softer, ductile core. The surface needs the hardness for handling increased velocity, not the core. The core controls how it behaves on impact more.
I like bullets to think of these bullets as being "case hardened". I know the hardness goes deeper but in a 420 gr 45-70 bullet I bet the center of the bullet cools just enough slower to make a difference. I am speaking of 25/75 wheel weights/pure with a 1/4 pound mag shot per 20 pound pot.