coal fired generation down?

[Y2K]

Normally I see train after train hauling coal from Wyo. to wherever. The last few days, I haven't seen a single full train moving and only a couple of empties. I have it on good authority that the trains are parked and the mines shut down--doing only maintenance/repair work. Has our "wonderful" government shut down the coal fired units in response to GLOBAL WARMING and air quality pressures? If so, what are people going to do in just a few weeks about running A/C and electric cars, etc., when it warms up? Not to completely fall for the conspiracy theories, but this looks to be very scary as I fail to see enough wind and solar generation capacity. Can someone help educate me as to what is going on--not finding anything with a quick search of the web.

[Rex]

I bet you money there aren't a one shut down except for spring maintenance. I worked in the industry for 33 years.

[Y2K]

I can understand the spring shutdown, but don't remember the trains being non-existant on the tracks and/or parked. Main reason I notice is I work next to a mainline and it's awfully quiet.

[Sasquatch-1]

Considering that the power for Capitol Hill (Federal Government Buildings) comes from a coal fired plant, I doubt that they have completely shut them down. But then again, what's good for the goose is not always good for the gander.

[Wots]

Here in chicago they recently shut down coal fired State Line Generating Plant (515 megawatts) with two other slated for shutdown within the next few years. All in the name of environmental concerns.

Then take into consideration the aging nuclear plants...........................


I would love to see "there" faces when we start having brown outs, rolling black outs, etc



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_L...nerating_Plant

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...nmental-groups

[tomme boy]

They are switching some of them over to natural gas. From what I have been told, it is only taking them around 30 days to switch once the gas line has been run to the plants.

Get ready for your bills to triple.

[runfiverun]

wooo hoooo i'll be back at work if they start using natural gas for that.
i'll have to build a coal fired steam car to go anywhere though.

[Castaholic]

There was an article a couple weeks ago (unfortunately I can't find it again so take what I am saying with a grain of salt) and it was talking about the new EPA regulations on new coal power plants. Apparently the emission standards on new coal power plants were so high that it is impossible to be profitable. Old plants would be grandfathered in but eventually would need to be replaced and it wouldn't make sense to make another so they would eventually be phased out. Not really a stretch given what the president has said in the past. It's not the whole equation but might shed some insight.

[wallenba]

Probably just lower demands as the weather warms up. We still use coal as well as limited nuke power in S.E. Michigan. Ships bring ours in though, from Deluth Minn..

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...ts_in_Michigan

[oneokie]

Have a relative that is a job superintendent for a company that retrofits the new air scrubbers at coal fired plants. He has been working on jobs on the east coast for 4 years now.

The local to me coal fired plant recently installed a second generator, and a new transmission line has been constructed.

[rockrat]

Saw a nice long coal train yesterday going thru Glenwood Canyon

[HodakaGA]

Probably related to much of the country having a milder than normal winter so they didn't hit their stockpiles as much as normal. Couple that with normal reduced needs in spring. The coal mines can shut down and do their mantainance.

[Beau Cassidy]

Friend of mine in the coal industry support business say their orders have plummeted. Obama Bin Ladin is doing is best to shut the coal industry down. Most coal fired plants are being converted to what is called combined fuel or something like that. Basically it is a propane fired jet that heats water from the exhaust and from the heat radiating off of it. Much cleaner but at the sacrifice of the coal industry.

[Rex]

Low "mild weather" demands make spring and fall a good time for maintenance outages. Seems I have heard that the rail lines also ask plants out in our area to stock pile so they could do some track maintenance also. The plant I retired from with two 650 MW units is installing scrubbers. Many plants are also converting to low sulpher western coal as opposed to high sulpher eastern coal. Our coal all came from Wyoming as it is low sulpher coal and they seem to be shipping it a long way east now.
I grew up on a farm in western Kansas and we never got electricity there until the mid '50s, I guarantee you they ain't going back there for the environment or anything else.

[wv109323]

In West Virginia, The slow down is due to the mild winter we had. The power plants did not consume as much coal as a normal winter thus they are "overstocked" with coal. Power Plants normally like a 60 day supply of coal and many are at 90-120 days supply. They simply quit ordering coal from the mines when their stockpiles get that big and burn down their stockpile.
Coal fired powder plants can not keep an infinite supply of coal on hand due to spontaneous combustion. They must limit the amount/time of coal stored or it will catch on fire.
Most Natural Gas fired plants in this area are "peak" plants. The natural gas fired plants can be brought on line ( and taken off line)in a matter of minutes. That makes them ideal to meet power demand over short periods of time. Power demand peaks at 2p.m. to 5 p.m. during hot days because everyone's air conditionor is running and on cold winter nights at 1 a.m. to 5a.m. when everyone's heater is on. These peaks are met with the natural gas fired plants in my local area.
The units in my area are a turbine engine directly turning a generator. I don't know the kilowats of each unit but they are no larger than 20'by 20 ' and some 15 to 20 units per site. They are located near a coal fired unit so that they can share the power grid.

[41 mag fan]

Ok heres the low down...coming from someone who works 500' under ground in the coal industry.
Right now...the biggest thing is we've had across the board a very mild winter.
With the mild winter, less used.
Plus the 2nd biggie...obamas EPA regs and MSHA regs are very strict, not only on coal plants, but on coal mines too. The new regs will drive alot of mines out of business.
Which thats fine, the power plants need to put on scrubbers because coal is very dirty. But even the new ones dont get the air "clean". And coal mines...some will risk a miners life for a nugget of coal.
Another really big factor is it's cheaper to burn natural gas right now over coal. So alot of plants are switching over.
And another thing, that is really hurting my job field, is with the recession in Europe, and everything slowing down, people are conserving, using less, buying less, which makes the stock pile grow.
With the mild winter and spring we've had, the coal piles at the power plants are at near max volume allowed by law. The power plant just 8-9mi from my house, has 4million tons on the ground in the stock yard, law requires 1million tons at all times minimum. They're only burning about 1/3 of all train cars we send them
Plus another thing, what you see as a slow down in things like the coal trains, is because some like my employer..Peabody, will move coal from other regions to supply another.

But if we get a hot summer, it'll take a couple of months to come back to full tilt again.
For 6 yrs I've basically worked 6days/wk. 1 long weekend off per mo.
Back in Feb they announced we were going on 5 day work weeks, slated for the rest of the yr.
Keep your a/c's off please. i'm liking my 5 day workweeks.
After actually experiencing what it's like to have a semblance of a normal life again, i'm really considering a career change, even if it means taking a paycut

Hope my rambling here kind of put a perspective on everything.....

[runfiverun]

the price of natural gas has also plummeted.
it will normally follow oil up and down but starting about 2 years ago it didn't follow the oil price when it went up from 77 dollars to 100 dollars.
the wells that were slated to be finished were but they now have no where to send it.
they built a pipeline from wyoming back east hoping to get people to switch over to natural gas,but they couldn't afford to run the system they have much less upgrade.
western wyomings economy is built on natural gas and coal production well,well over 50% of some towns income is from these two economies.

[Char-Gar]

My Daughter is the Public Relation person for a major power generating corporation that covers several states. She is fuming about the new EPA regulations on the transportation and use of coal to generate electricity. Her company has a number of coal fired plants plus a nuke or two. She tells me that folks can expect to see power rates increase by 1/3 to 1/2 in the next couple of years.

This will be a disaster for everybody in American and send an already shaky economy into a tailsping. All, but a few folks noticed this when it happened. Folks were so spun up about Obamacare this slipped by under the radar.

[waksupi]

During Obama's campaign, he said he would make it too expensive for coal companies to do business, and put them under.

[odfairfaxsub]

we are going to close on plant down in its intirity in chesepeake va. we have i think 3 units in yorktown that 1 is going to be a permanent nat gas conversion another one will be a temp gas one and the coal unit will be shut down. 1st energy i believe is making tons of coal shutdowns.