Help with cleaning a 91/30

[FallRun]

Just got my hands on a Nagant 91/30 about a week ago, and have been trying to clean it ever since. The bore is a little frosted and filthy. I'm using Ed's Red, Hoppe's #9 and a home made electronic bore cleaner. The bore just wont come clean After using the electronic cleaner 5 times, the rod came out clean so I thought I had it. WRONG!! No matter what I do.... After scrubbing with a brush (both bronze and tornado) the patches just keep coming out black. Seems like it's never going to stop. Am I looking for too much? will I ever get ALL the crud out of this bore? Why did the electronic bore cleaner only go so far? (yes the batterys are still good) Thanx in advance for all your help.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Fallrun,

I do a lot of gunsmithing work and occasionally we'll have to deal with one of the 91/30's such as you describe. What you're dealing with is layers of burnt powder and filth alternatived with layers of copper. Here's how we do it:


1. Stand the rifle up on it's buttstock with bolt removed. Plus the chamber with a rubber plug. Fill the bore with Ed's Red (No lanolin) and let soak overnight. Do this in a well-ventillated area. Note: The most important thing you can do when using Ed's Red to clean a filthy bore is to let the solvent soak in the bore and do it's job of breaking down the fouling. Fill bore, soak over night. (When cleaning normally, run a couple soaking wet patches through and let soak for 15-20 minutes.)

2. The next day, drain the Ed's Red. Run a patch through soaked with Ed's Red, followed by a tight-fitting bronze brush or with an old brush wrapped with some steel wool. Scrub vigorously back and forth several times. Run another patch through soaked with Ed's Red. Repeat this until patches seem to start coming clean.

3. Install electrnic cleaner over night with chemicals. If there is copper on the rod the next morning, you know you got through the powder layer to the next layer of copper. If not, you've got more powder to scrub. BTW, these are designed to clean out metals and the chemicals you use with them dictate what sort of metals. They generally will not clean out really bad non-metallic fouling, such as burnt sticky, gummy Commie ammo fouling.

It some times takes several days of scrubbing like this to get some bores clean. In addition, the Commie ammo of that era is extremely corrosive, so you're quite likely going to run into rust in such situations. It won't hurt to run some patches coated with JB bore paste or JB's bore bright.

These things just take a lot of work when they're really bad.

Regards,

Dave

[Jack Stanley]

Don't lose heart with the electronic cleaner just yet . Double check your formula if you are using a homemade solution . With some rifles the key is to keep at it , my Springfield 03 is an example of that . It is a Greek return that did as you describe for a while and the black just stopped after about three huors of cleaning .
The rifle still didn't shoot worth a hoot but the gages said it should . I used a magnifier at the muzzle and it appeared to have nickel fouling . That was when the electronic cleaner came into it's own . It took another five hours of cleaning after that and sometimes when I changed the solution in the barrel and ran a patch through it would come out w light yellow color , other times it was black again . Once through all this I got the color of rust on the patch , just a bit but it was there .

What I did to get the High Standard barrel clean was clean the bore of all the oils and such , fill with solution and clean for an hour . At the end of the hour , dump solution into pail and patch the barrel from breach to muzzle . If a lot of crud was present I would wet the patches in denatured alcohol and swab until clean . Eight or nine times I went through the cycle and the barrel got clean for sure but I could still get a little black even at the end when examination showed the nickel was gone .
You might try Kroil in the barrel and let it soak for a while too . Some guys report good results with that .

Jack

[FallRun]

Thank You guys for your help. What is nickle or copper fouling going to look like on the elect cleaning rod? mine was just coming out black then after 5 times (1 hour at a time) it came out clean. So I guess I need to scrub more, then go back to the elect? BTW my formula for the eletc is just straight household amonia that's what the web site said to use

[Hackleback]

When using solvents to clean, I have found that it helps to use a couple different solvents. Use solvent "a" until it looks like things are geting clean (grey patches instead of black) then switch to solvent "b" and clean some more. Many times, youwill get a black patch as soon as you switch.

[Ricochet]

Capping the muzzle and soaking it in ammonia works well. Usually has to be repeated several times, with normal cleaning and shooting in between. It didn't get that way overnight.

[Buckshot]

................In sofar as to having cleaned 3 x M95's, several Turks, 4 x M91-30's, and a couple VZ-24's I will agree that crude can get layered in there. I don't have an electronic cleaner, so for me it was steel wool wrapped on a nylon bristle brush and Hoppe's. Then a tight flannel patch and some JB, then repeat. A few I had to plug the muzzle and fill the barrel with Hoppe's from the breech and stand'em up over night, then commence again the next day.

.................Buckshot

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Something I forgot to mention. A lot of the Mosin chambers are also loaded up with that coating the Commies put on their steel cased ammo. You'd do real well to scrub that out using a slightly worn (sorta soft) green scrubbie pad and a worn out chamber brush. Getting this clean will prevent a lot of the sticky extraction many folk's experience with rifles in the condition you describe.

regards,

Dave

[mtngunr]

I generally just scrub to bare metal using worn brushes, patches, and Remington bore cleaner....I used to think there was a faster way, but reading the above replies gives pause to that thought......

[RU shooter]

If I were you and I was with a few 91/30's that I had over the years ,I wouldnt worry about getting that bore squeeky clean If its frosted your going to go through a long and dedious cleaning regiment EVERY time you take it out shooting I had one that I went through countless brushes and a big bag full o patches and still got a grey patch! Just go shoot it and enjoy the history of it ,clean it to take care of the corrosive deposits from the primers in the surplus ammo and clean the new powder residue,Oil it up and let it ride and enjoy it. for the most part its not going to shoot any better or worse clean or dirty!

[versifier]

Thank You guys for your help. What is nickle or copper fouling going to look like on the elect cleaning rod? mine was just coming out black then after 5 times (1 hour at a time) it came out clean. So I guess I need to scrub more, then go back to the elect? BTW my formula for the eletc is just straight household amonia that's what the web site said to use

Try a solution of 1/2 white vinegar and 1/2 household ammonia as your electrolyte solution instead of straight ammonia. As mentioned, the electronic cleaner doesn't touch powder fouling - for that, let a good solvent soak overnight and brush it well. Alternating both techniques.

The ready mixed solvents that Outers sells for the FoulOut are a lot stronger and much quicker acting, (also not good to pour down the drain after use!) but very expensive. Patience will get the job done with nontoxic household products, but they have to be changed often during use as they are not particularly concentrated.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Dang Versifier,

You sound like me talking.

Dave