Threads like this make me want to go kiss my presses, old, medium, and new.
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Threads like this make me want to go kiss my presses, old, medium, and new.
God Bless America!
Sittin here watchin the world go round and round...
Much like a turd in a flushing toilet.
Shoot for the eyes.
If they are crawlin away, shoot for the key hole.
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CRPA Life Member
Magnificent!
The basic flaw with Science is man.
You pay slightly more. You get a way better press. Speaking of the 650. 550 just works better. My LnL was a priming nightmare that Hornady simply could not fix. The Casefeeder is a disaster as well with 9mm.Originally Posted by DaveInFloweryBranchGA
My Hornady LNL AP Has been a Great press for many thousands of rounds so far..I've had a little trouble to begin with, mainly operating learning to use it!..Hornady has always been 100% Helpful, and replaced a part that I even misplaced!
Terry
Manufacturing can be a real challenge.
Keeping taps on your vendors\suppliers to make sure they are not cutting corners\substituting inferior to increase revenue can be tricky. Especially in the volume the LNL is produced.
The difference is how the company reacts and takes care of the customer. Which they do a good job of. Once this batch runs its course, you probably will never see that issue again.
Performance reloading equipment.
www.Inlinefabrication.com
as to blowing up guns idiot loaders do that not presses. If your not a careful loader you dont belong behind any progressive press. As a matter of fact you shouldnt be reloading period. As to guys prefering them over a dillon i will say this. I own both and have loaded extensively on red and blue equiptment. the dillon stuff is more expensive but for me has been more reliable. by reliable i mean setting up and loading a 1000 rounds without a hickup. Hornadys are decent progressive presses but ive rarely made it though a day of loading on one without having to do some kind of tweak to it. Be it timing ajustment, primer missfeed, or the suck !!! case feeder system
Ive loaded a bunch on square deals, lnls, 650s, and 550s and a little on 1050s. No doubt in my mind a 650 is a better engineered press. But then it cost alot more. A lnl is priced in line with a square deal. As to reliability though NONE of them is as realible as a 550. Just common sense. There manual advance and thats a major system that just cant go wrong unless you break your finger. Problem for me with a 550 is speed. I just loaded 2k of 38 specials over the last two days on my 550. Never had one single burb of any kind but its about like being in a dream and trying to run in mud after loading on a true progressive with a case feeder. But id bet if a guy factor in all the down time for troubles it wouldnt be all taht much differnt. It sure feels it though.
As to saying that so many people brag on there lnl so they have to be good ill say this. How many people do you know that will never admit they made a mistake. How many will tell you whatever they buy be it a press or a truck or a motorcyle is the best in its class. It has to be because there just to intellegent to buy anything but the best. Then you have guys that maybe load 5k a year on there presses and think they actually have a handle on how reliable they are. Multiply that by at least 10 and then come back to me in 5 years and ill agree that you have somewhat of an idea how good that press really is. I just wish i could catch one of you guys that claim to have bougten dillons and dumped them to buy lnls. I surely would have been standing in line to swap my lnls for 650s!! As to the money personaly i think the added cost of a 650 over a lnl is justified in what you get. Id gladly send my three lnls back to hornady and give them 200 bucks a crack to upgrade them to the point they were as reliable as a 650. Heck id throw these casefeeders in the pond and buy new ones for 300 bucks each just to cure the case feeder headaches. QUOTE=DaveInFloweryBranchGA;1590471]Actually, that 10 year old 550 was sent back to the factory for a replacement by the guy I sold it to after Dillon did NOT get it fixed for me. And I notice you didn't comment on the rebuilds or which press has had the greatest number of blown guns due to design.
And just because you pay more, doesn't mean you get more. I think we proved this with the Lee Classic Turret. I have loaded on a 550 since I got rid of my bad one, but I still found the LnL I owned to be a better press, especially for the money.
Time is passing, lots of folks opting for the Hornady over the 550 and finding it to be a worthy press. They are more honest and more forthcoming than Dillon owners about the press's faults, but the presses have no more problems than I read over on the Dillon forums when I go over there about issues with Dillon equipment I own.
jmorris,
You wanna pay more money and get less, that's your business though. Always gotta be folks who think if they paid more, they got more. PT Barnum loved those kind....[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Lloyd, are you feeling better after this rant?
Bliksem
Hornady service is top notch, as expected from a US company. I am not convinced that there is only a single company that delivers quality.
The holes on my targets don't know or care what press was used. Ease of use and volume of a press does not impress me. Show me the target.
Bliksem
BTW - price of equipment does nothing for accuracy.
I dont understand your point. Does the hornady press load more accurate ammo then the dillon does and if both do it equally well wouldnt you prefer the one that works the best and is easiest to use???? If cheap equiptment is as good for accuracy as expensive equiptment why dont you see bench rest shooters or competitive pistol shooters loading on lee presses. Most bench rest shooters use nothing but top shelf and id bet if you took a pole at a major competitve pistol shoot of all the top 5 placers in every class that 90 percent of them are loading on dillon presses and the other 10 percent are given ammo by a sponsor.
then ill go this route with you. I load a ton of 223 and 308 for my ars and my bolt guns. I do it progressively because i dont have time to sit there with a single stage press and make up a 1000 rounds that is shot up in a couple days. Ive loaded this ammo in the past on single stage presses because its all i had. Ive also loaded it for years on 550 and now do it on a lnl. I keep records of the accuracy of my guns and when i load with a new lot number of powder i reshoot them off the bench. I dont recall ever seeing a differnce in accuracy caused by which press this ammo is loaded on. Id bet you a dime to a dollar you could load the same load on your "accurate" equipment and i could load it on my lnl and it would take a caliper to measure the differnce in .00010 of an inch those groups would vary and when im measuring groups its with a ruler and a 1/16 of an inch plus or minus is close enough for my records.. Surely the difference in accuracy between presses is nothing worth mentioning in the field and they only time it would even be a minor consern would be if you were shooting competitive benchrest. So for the most part in my book anyway accuracy isnt even a consern when buying a press. Any press will load ammo accurate enough for me. What is my consern? Ease of use and volume
It all comes down to: how a person likes to load, what brand he thinks serves his use best, wether his dad/friends likes a certain brand, amount of disposible funds , how mechanicaly minded he is/understands ect...
Many things in life I have found the price does reflect quality,materials,warrantee ect... but many times only up to a point. This fact doesn't always stand true though,some things you are simply paying for a name,nothing much more.
This topic of which brand is better has no right or wrong answer. It is purely what one person likes/prefers and how he veiws what "works" for them at the price they are willing to pay.
These "discussions" always remind me of my truck situation. I used to own brand "X". I bought 3 of that brand, new trucks over the years and always was annoyed at interior rattles.
My last one I had a folded up paper wad shoved under several places in the dash,even though it was in for warrantee 5 times(for other items,I always included those rattles also),it still had paper wads in the dash when I sold it four years later.
I switched to brand "Y" for my latest truck and continued to have people baffled why I switched. EVERY GUY that I said it was because of the constant rattles(it was other reasons as well) they ALL insisted "MINE DOESN't HAVE ANY WHATSOEVER". I kept a $100 bill in my wallet so when someone said that ,I would tell them "I bet $100 to your $50 that if we go 2 miles out and back, I will be able point out at least 1 rattle" NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON OUT OF AROUND 12 GUYS WOULD TAKE THE BET!! WHY?
sent via hammer and chisel
need oversized powder funnels , PTX's or expanders ? just ask, I make 'em for most brands plus my own styles.
I like my LNL. My 550 is good too. I wish I could take the priming from the Dillon and drop it onto my LNL. I prefer the shell plate design, powder measure, bushings, and primer disposal of my Hornady. I think if they mounted the priming system firmly on the press instead of the shell plate, it would be great.
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The press has to work first. The LnL has a disappointing habit of not working with some primers. That is why the Dillon is the safer choice.
I would stick with a single stage if I were you. Costs less than any progressive and loads ammunition that is just as good.Ease of use and volume of a press does not impress me.
The Dillon 550 I had never worked with any brand of primers. The LnL I had for ten years required polishing, adjusting and loctiting when I first got it, then never had a problem with any brand of primers after that.
Most of the folks who have problems with the Hornady primer system haven't polished it, adjusted it correctly and loctited the parts. Because of the design and price point, you do have to do that. But once done, it's typically trouble free.
Those who've owned Dillons have had problems with primers as well and have had to tune them to get them right. The 550 I had ended up appearing to have a machining flaw in the casting. When Dillon replaced the basic press for my buddy, the problem went away. I think if it had been manual advance, I might have sent it in, but I hated the manual advance feature as well.
Point to all this is, all these presses have a price point and the companies have to manufacture them within that price point. ALL brands have problems, failures and design features that aren't so great.
But it's ridiculous at this point to run in and say to a guy, when he has a problem with his press, that he oughta buy some other brand. Fact is there IS NOT enough quality difference to make it worth it to get rid of one brand to get another if you have a problem with the original brand.
Now if you're just tired of one brand, like one gets tired of one type of shooting and sells one rifle to get another, then rock on.
Love mine. No complaints.
I see you have never owned a LEE 1000.Fact is there IS NOT enough quality difference to make it worth it to get rid of one brand to get another if you have a problem with the original brand.
My LnL fed primers fine. It just would not seat them deep enough to work with my light weight striker spring Glock. Both my 550 and 650 did this with zero issues. Others have had the same issue. The Dillon is a superior design from a leverage point of view while priming. Even Hornady told me that. The hornady has a really short primer punch. So if the punch bottoms out before the primer is fully seated you will have issues. If it doesn't, your fine.
If you own a LnL the above picture will look familiar. It's the subplate. That small hole is what the primer punch goes into. On top is a 650 primer punch. It's 5X the size, with a lot more stroke then the LnL primer punch. That is the issue with the LnL primer setup.
550 primer setup needs to be kept clean. If that doesn't do it then you call Dillon and get them to send you a new primer housing. 550 needs to be kept clean and it does get dirty in use. LnL is better in that regard. But if you follow proper setup on the 550 it will work. And the 550 also has much longer stroke on it's primer setup so it can seat primers deeper.
Nope. Looks sort of like the base plate and the primer seater, but I have never seen them like that.
Used a Hornady progressive since the first model came out. Dillon at the time had a 4-station press and cost more then Hornady's new 5-station press. Never had a problem with any of the models and, until the L-N-L, I kept mine updates for a fairly nominal cost.
I had a time when the primers weren't seating completely. Found the shell plate had worked loose. Found that the unit would feed and seat every primer but the last one. Got a Dillon rod for the primer tube and that was fixed.
Sorry, I look at my press and just have to wonder what press the complainers actually have, as it can't be like mine.
I have had more problems with each of my 1050s feeding and seating primers than I ever had with my Hornady. However, in all cases, it can be tracked down to dirt or the primer hole in the slide needing just a slight chamfer.
There is no progressive press that is 100% reliable with feeding and seating primers and any one who claims otherwise is not being truthful to themselves or others.
Likewise, I can't understand the complaints about the Hornady powder measure. Great measure. The PTXs go in the powder die and you adjust the powder die in or out until you get the amount of flare/bell desired. You then lock the powder die to the bushing (with a case in the die with PTX activated). Then, you can remove the whole assembly and place it in the press at the angle you want. I have always been able to position it to eliminate any interference with the primer blast shield. Another plus for the bushings--you can set the powder measure at, I think, six different positions.
I do admit that with the Dillon powder measure, it sits in a slot that runs around the powder die so you have an "infinite" number of positions to set the measure. However, the powder measure itself is simply a large Lee Pro Auto-Disk--a really good powder measure, but nothing earth-shaking (and I have one for each toolhead for my 1050s).
noylj I agree with you that no progressive will ever be a 100 percent reliable. MY hornadys do a good job. Id say half the trouble i have with them is the piss poor designed case feeders. I have had primer troubles with mine. Like any press dirt or powder will gum up the primer feed about instantly no matter what colar the press. One of my 3 hornady had the primer not seating properly problem when i got it but a bit of grinding and a few new parts and it was good to go. Only other problem i have is ejection. I have one of the old style wire ejector presses and two of the newer ones with the boss. Both give me troubles. Not enough to really worry about though but if your comparing to a dillon that has to be factored in because ive never had an ejection problem with a dillon other then the square deals. As to the measures my hornadys dont flare. I do it with a flaring die. that said id take a hornady measure hands down over a dillon. there much easier to ajust more accuarate and give you the option of having ajustment bushing set at differnt weights ready to just swap in and go. YOU can do the same with the dillon slides but there much more of a pain to swap. Heres my take on it When comparing to a 550. The 550 is more reliable. Theres not even an argument there. If a guys main consern isnt absoulte production its a better choise. Ive been loading 38s and 40s on mine for a couple weeks and its the first time ive used it in a year or so and it amazes me as it just keeps going and going. After loading on the lnl im just not used to that as im allways stopping to tweak something. thing is though if production is your main goal i can still hands down load more ammo over a two day period with a lnl and a case feeder. After running a lnl or a 650 using a 550 is like that dream where your trying to run in cement.
Go look at the underside of your subplate. That is the newer version with the casefeeder projection. You can see the recess around the center pillar. Hornady sent me several version of that part in a effort to fix the priming issues.
Here are some pictures of the other side. You can see how they changed the depth of the recess to move the primer punch higher. Perhaps this will help someone who is having the same issue.
Excellent pix of the LnL primer punch.
Here's the other major part of the system, the shuttle...it runs in and out in the slot to position the primer on top of the punch....
Attachment 41287
The first thing I noticed in your pic is your priming assembly protrudes above the surface of the shell plate carrier by a substantial amount...on both my presses they are slightly below flush. Seems to me that would interfere with the shuttle travel unless the bottom of the shuttle was relieved to clear the punch.
A few problems I found with my presses that need to be addressed:
1) The nose on the end of the shuttle fits very snugly into the radius at the end of the slot. The shuttle had a sprue on the end of the nose that had not been properly finished and prevented the shuttle from lining up with the punch. A few minutes with a needle file removed the offending sprue and allowed the primer to line up with the punch.
The top of the hole in the shuttle had a very sharp edge on it that wouldn't allow the primer to drop into the hole if everything wasn't lined up just exactly right. A little deburring and chamfering cured that.
The shuttle acts like a little bulldozer that pushes everything in front of it into the end of the slot. Any dust, flakes of powder or other debris will quickly accumulate to hold the shuttle away from the end of the slot and prevent the primer from lining up with the punch. File an angle on the bottom of the nose of the shuttle, that will create a space where the crud can accumulate without interfering with the shuttle travel.
2) Compare the Dillon primer seating assembly to the Hornady and the most obvious difference is the relative sizes of them. The diameter of the threads and the size of the hole it screws into really doesn't make a bit of difference. The assembly screws down against a shoulder at the end of the threads and any pressure is supported by the shoulder and not the threads. The important difference is the size of that knob on the end of the Dillon punch....that's what supports the force of seating the primer....it looks like it's a half inch diameter. The same part on the Hornady is .140 dia...and it's rounded on the end, not flat...BIG difference.
On the Hornady, where the punch bears against the frame of the press when seating the primer, it doesn't take long for that small, rounded surface to wear an indent into the press frame, effectively reducing the punch stroke. Screwing the assembly higher into the shell plate carrier doesn't change a thing, the punch still ends up at the same place at the end of the stroke. Cut a piece off the end of a .010 feeler gauge and lay it over the indent on the press frame....problem solved.
3) Little, tiny parts...Getting that Hornady priming assembly apart isn't any big deal, just remove one E clip and parts fly every where. Getting it back together is the challenge.
The problem here is that any crud that finds it's way down inside the assembly will prevent the punch from returning to the down position and interfere with the shuttle travel. Since it's such a PITA to put it back together, it's best to clean it without taking it apart.
Remove the assembly from the press. Hold it upside down and push the punch in as far as it will go. Take a stiff, small dia. wire (torch tip cleaner works well), insert it between the punch and nut and scrape the crud loose so it will fall out. Lube to prevent corrosion and reinstall. This is a good place for a teflon lube with evaporating carrier that won't stay wet and attract dirt.
A few other observations........
Most of us here reload as a hobby or reload to support our shooting hobby. If I were going to bid on a multi-million dollar government ammo contract I certainly wouldn't waste my time comparing $600.00 manually operated presses. On the other hand I'm not going to spend $100,000.00 on automated equipment to feed my 200 round per week shooting habit.
The presses we're debating here all have one thing in common.....THEY'RE CHEAP!!. Some just cheaper than others. They all have design flaws because....THEY'RE CHEAP!!
You can load good ammo on any of the presses available.....even the Lee Load Master..)
Anyway, don't get too torqued out cause somebody's dumpin' on your favorite press.
Have fun
Jerry
Buzzard's luck!! Can't kill nothin', nothin'll die!!
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