Need opinions - what would happen???

[DukeInFlorida]

Some background first.......

I have been loading 357 Sig ammo. It's all law enforcement range brass, virtually all of it once fired. Most of it (99%) is Speer.

A recent batch of brass (5,000 pcs or so) has been giving me fits! About 2-3 pcs out of a hundred have been wreaking havoc with the primer knock out pins in Lee Precision full length resizing dies. I've had 4-5 look like they broke, deep inside the holder pin. Figured they went "crunch" and went somewhere (goodness only knows....)

Through some testing with an RCBS die set (also 357 Sig), I discovered the same thing....... Except, because the RCBS dies are made different (much longer knock out pins, most importantly), I saw that the knock out pin got pulled out of the sizing rod collet. Sticking straight out of the case mouth. And, in the course of inadvertently installing a new primer (the old primer indeed got knocked out), was able to seat it over the pin stuck in the flash hole................

REVELATION!

I now know that the 4-5 "missing pins" from the Lee set pins are indeed stuck inside assembled ammo.

So, here's my question:

What would happen if I dropped one of those rounds (with the primer pin stuck in the flash hole, and new primer in place over it) into a gun, and pulled the trigger?

Would it?:
A) Completely misfire, because the pin is blocking the hole, and no flash would ever get to the powder?
B) The primer would build up enough pressure to blow the pin out of the flash hole, and the powder would ignite?
C) The pressure resulting from the weird B) scenario would cause damage to the shooter and the gun?
D) Or, the pressure would be fine, and the pin would get shot out the barrel with the bullet?

I'm up against pulling about 200 rounds. Not a biggie in terms of safety rules. But am I worrying needlessly?

So, this batch of Speer brass has undersized flash holes.

My work around was to polish the RCBS knock out pin down a thousandth or so (they are normally .060", and I reduced it to .059", and it's highly polished now.)

Thanks in advance for opinions.

[CATS]

I do not know what would happen, but for only 200 rounds I would pull them all down and not feel bad about doing it.

[BulletFactory]

Yep, I wouldnt chance it. The other possibility is that it might force the primer rearward, and if it ignited the powder, I could see it burning the breech face, and sending lit powder in other places its not supposed to be. Or the pin could get stuck in the barrel making a squib out of itself. The next bullet that runs into that thing could cause all sorts of problems.

I've pulled a couple hundred rounds before, its not so bad once yiou get the rhythm going. Besides, its fun to throw the old bullets back into the pot, you get good flux from the lube grooves, a nice puff of smoke and a little pop of fire from the powder. I find it quite amusing for some odd reason.

[JCherry]

Just wondering but would a strong magnet do the job?


Have Fun

JCherry

[Kraschenbirn]

Pull 'em down. Why take a chance on wrecking a good gun? Not to mention the potential for collateral damage to yourself and/or any bystanders. Just my nickel's worth...

Bill

[30CAL-TEXAN]

Do you think there would be a significant weight difference in the loaded rounds?

If so, weigh them all on an digital scale and pull the heaviest ones untill you find all of your pins.

This is of course assuming that you know exactly how many you are looking for.

[Cherokee]

Pull 'em.

[canyon-ghost]

Flash hole reamer, Duke? Thanks for posting that, learn something every day.

Ron

[btroj]

What would happen? Can't say for sure. The real questions this, are you willing to find out?

Not me.

Brad

[Doby45]

I had the exact same experience with the batch of Speer 357SIG bras I got. I even lost approx the same number of "pins" and I shot all mine with zero issues. I found out I was missing the decapping rod "pin" when I would be depriming the brass and suddenly I was not depriming anymore but the decapping rod was still in the die but the little piece was missing. This happened to at least four of the Lee depriming rods. I would say the worst thing that could happen would betheroindwouldnotfireifthepin is still in the flash hole. I would not breakdown 200rds of ammo

[Matt3357]

Super strong neo magnet should be able to sort them. That is, if you know how many pins you are missing.

Matt

[mold maker]

I'm surprised that there was room to seat a boolit over the pin without setting off the primer.
I'd say you were already lucky and shouldn't push your luck. The suggestion to weigh and pull the heavy ones makes sense indeed, but only if ya know exactly how many to look for.
Even then pulling all of them is the safe route.

[geargnasher]

I dislike Speer brass in any caliber I've seen it in. Mainly due to needing to swage every flash hole to get the new primer to seat, and the tendency of the case heads to be concave toward the primer pocket.

Gear

[Cadillo]

Flash hole reamer, Duke? Thanks for posting that, learn something every day.

Ron

I agree. My experience with Speer brass is that the flasholes are way too tight. I scrap it when it turns up in my brass bucket. Too much trouble for handgun brass.

[Doby45]

My experience with the 2,000 I got made it so that I will not use it anymore also..

[prickett]

What would happen if I dropped one of those rounds (with the primer pin stuck in the flash hole, and new primer in place over it) into a gun, and pulled the trigger?

Funny you should ask... just had this happen to me the other day. After failing to get a grip on the stuck pin with pliers I realized I could shoot it out. So, I did. Worked like a charm. Just shoot it somewhere you'll be able to recover it (and somewhere safe).

EDIT - Hmmm, I now see you have loaded rounds. I noticed mine before dropping the powder or seating the bullet, so mine were just primer shots. So, never mind.

[runfiverun]

might just knock the boolit forward with the primer force and not ignite the powder.
might knock it forward and set off the powder.
might not go off.

[Bwana]

I use a RCBS die set and when I first encountered these problems I called RCBS and they sent a new decapping rod with their fix which was a smaller diameter decapping pin. No problems since then. Call RCBS and they will take care of the problem for you.
A strong magnet, as suggested, would work. Firing them might be injurious to the bore. Pulling them would be a chore; but, I like all things reloading. You get to decide.

[DukeInFlorida]

Thanks all for the opinions (I realize that they are that... opinions).

I'll pull them all down, as most suggested.

99% of all of the 357 Sig brass that I have seen is Speer. So, there's no getting around that. I don't have the budget for NEW brass.

I have the "defective" pins on their way back to Lee, along with some brass samples, and the sizing die. We'll see what they say.

I know one thing, no matter what I get for returned pins, I'm going to chuck them up in a drill motor, and reduce the diameter and polish them. I have a few "tight hole" brass samples which I can use as a quick check gauge for testing whether the pins will fit.

The flash holes get punched at the factory (not machined), so it;s likely that Speer didn't change out their punch when the flash holes started getting smaller (the punch gets smaller and smaller as it wears out). Bad Quality Control on their part. But since they manufacture the brass as a One Time Use Only product, I can't really complain to them (as one would do with Starline.....)

Funny you should ask... just had this happen to me the other day. After failing to get a grip on the stuck pin with pliers I realized I could shoot it out. So, I did. Worked like a charm. Just shoot it somewhere you'll be able to recover it (and somewhere safe).

EDIT - Hmmm, I now see you have loaded rounds. I noticed mine before dropping the powder or seating the bullet, so mine were just primer shots. So, never mind.

Your comment tells me that the pressure from the primer would certainly force the pin out and into the cartridge, but it's unclear what would happen to the powder.

This adds further confirmation that I should just pull them.

Flash hole reamer, Duke? Thanks for posting that, learn something every day.

Ron

Heck, NO! Don't wanna add another operation to the equation! The polishing of the pins to a slightly smaller diameter hould do the trick.

I'm surprised that there was room to seat a boolit over the pin without setting off the primer.
I'd say you were already lucky and shouldn't push your luck.

The Lee pins are only about 3/8 inch long. Not long enough to interfere with the seating of the bullet, or to get pushed further into the primer.

Super strong neo magnet should be able to sort them. That is, if you know how many pins you are missing.

Matt

I'll try digging up some kind of super strong magnet and will report back. I should check some of the other pins I have here to see if they are 300 series stainless steel (which will not pick out the pins).

I'll also do some weighing of the rounds, and see if I can detect the added weight of the pins. Being as the pins are very short and very slender, there's not a lot of weight involved. It might be less than the differences in the weight of the bullets, and the cases. The powder is very accurate, 8.9 grains of Blue Dot. Fills the case up to the neck.

[blackthorn]

Just a thought---would you add bits of hard metal to your powder charge? If you did, what are the odds those bits of metal would damage the bore? I'd pull them!!!