180gr Boolit in 38 special???

[Matt3357]

I just purchased an RCBS 360-200 that has been fly cut to remove the gas check to around 180 gr. It is a rifle boolit with a flat nose. When loaded in a 38 special case it fits just right into the cylinder of my S&W 686 357 mag. I am contemplating making them soft nosed using pure Pb for the nose and WW for the base and running them at near 357 mag speeds.

Any one have any idea where to start as far as loads go?

I did some checking and compared to my Lee 158 gr flat nose in a 357 case, there is about 1/16 of an inch less space with the RCBS in a 38 special case. Should be just a bit higher pressure due to less space.

Depending on how it shoots and its terminal performance on some offending water jugs, I will probably use it for IL close range whitetails this Nov.

Matt

[Eagles6]

Lyman # 45 has 168 gr cast and 195 cast in .38 Special so it can be done although I think maybe the SP might limit penetration in .38 Special which might be kind of border line to begin.

[Matt3357]

I tried to edit before anyone responded. I should have been more clear. I want to know if it is possible to put it in a 38 special case and shoot it at 357mag velocities from my 686 357 mag. The velocity is the same, just the case would be different so it would fit. I am looking at around 1200 fps or so for out to around 30 yards max distance.

Matt

[silverbuzzard]

years ago Skeeter Skelton I believe was writing about pushing 38 loads to the max.
I would be careful ,even in a 686.
I think he was using a model 27 which has a lot more steel around the case.
You certainly could go about 900 with it safely maybe a tad more.
Guess I have to ask why not use the 357 case?

[silverbuzzard]

here in Indiana a 357 case is legal but not a 38

[silverbuzzard]

I would use the 158 grain or a 170 grain hardcast.
PLENTY of penetration in either on a whitetail

[Matt3357]

I don't think you guys know what i am talking about. I'll post a picture when I get a chance. But the base on this bullet has been shortened so it is down in the case about the same as my 158 gr in a mag case. The nose on this bullet is too long to use in a mag case in my cylinder. It is just right in a special case and has about the same amount of powder volume as a 158 in a mag case. I think a picture will explain it better. I am not trying to blow off your advice, but I want to be sure you know what I am trying to do.

Matt

[leadhead]

They used to do that in handgun silhoutte so as to knock the 200 meter rams down.
Used 200 grain cast bullets in 38 special cases. I can't recall the loads.
Denny

[Bret4207]

Yes, you can do it. What you'll basically be duplicating is the old 38/44 heavy duty loadings. What you'll need to look for is some of the older loading info. The Lyman 358429 is supposed to be 173 gr in #2 alloy. Mine in WW run around 180, 182 IIRC. I've had no real issues using it with some of the older loads in an M27 and M19 but I didn't push them past 1100 or so. You want to use good brass and work up slowly. 2400 is the traditional powder for this stuff. Keep them separate from your normal 38 loadings.

[hornsurgeon]

i've been loading a 200 gr boolit in a shortened 357 case, which is right between a 38 and 357 in length. i've had great sucess with 12.5gr h110. start slightly lower and work up. remember that h110 likes to be near max load density, but not compressed.

[Good Cheer]

I have a 180 grain 357 made by the wizard of Moyie Springs.
It's awesome for most any use you might put it to.
Good luck on your experiment. Please keep us up to date on your results.

[Matt3357]

Ok so what I have come up with is this. I am shortening my 357 cases to 1.205". this comes up just over the front driving band and crimps. The OAL is around 0.010 shorter than my cylinder. I also did some measuring and compared to the 158 gr flat nose, I have .055 less powder height in my shortened case with the 180gr than I do with the 158gr in a mag case. This leads me to think that I shouldn't run into major pressure spikes for the amount of power space compared to a 357. So my plan is this. I am going to us 10% reduced 357 starting loads (for powder that is capable) and work up. Sound like a plan to you guys?

Matt

[9.3X62AL]

That is sound reasoning, in my view.

Using H-110/WW-296 in 357 Magnum cases, top-end loads for 200 grain boolits are 12.4 grains. Top-end loads for the 158-160 grainers run 14.5 grains. This is current SAAMI data, with 36K PSI max average product pressures (MAPP). Regardless of casing, boolit depth in a casing is boolit depth, as cartridge overall length infers. I'm not encouraging interpolation here, but.....

Your 686 won't barf on 1935-level loads (42K PSI). At all. You have a substantial margin of safety, assuming good powder weights and a revolver in good mechanical condition. I have run the serial Group Buy 357 Maximum 180 grain flatnose GC with 14.0 grains of 296 and CCI 550 primers in W-W 357 Mag casings, and didn't even have sticky extraction. These clocked 1175-1200 FPS in its 4" barrel. They're LIVELY. They're not quiote to 1935 levels, but I'm sure they surpass current SAAMI ratings at least a bit. NO WAY would these get fired in a K-frame S&W, unless in a screamin' emergency.

[Matt3357]

Ok so I made up some loads this evening. I used 2400 because it can be downloaded. I made up 6 of each 8, 9, 10, and 11 grains. This puts me between 38SPL and 357 loads with a 180gr Jacketed bullet. Shouldn't have any troubles with over pressure I hope. I am kindof leery about using H110 since it is so darn sensitive to reduced loads. I wonder how they figure where that sweet spot is. Do you think it is a load density? Or do they try until they don't blow things up? Do you think Lil'Gun would work well in this load? I am shooting for 1200 fps.

Matt

[9.3X62AL]

2400 uncomplicates things a lot. Good move. 11.0 grains with the 180 shouldn't cause grief for that 686. You have the "stair-stepped" loads to progress upward with......I'd say it's time for a range day! And some chronography, if so equipped.

[Matt3357]

Ah, I do wish I had a chrono. I think I may drop a few hints for Christmas. Any recommendations as far as brands go?

Matt

[Matt3357]

I am thinking about this one.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=852429

Any experiences?

Matt

[Bret4207]

Get the cheapest Chrony they make. I was all in a lather for one for years. Finally got one and I've used it maybe 4 times in 5 years.

[missionary5155]

Howdy
I use my Crony only after I have done the load developement... then just to see what the load really does out of my forearm. To me speed means very little until i am satisfied with repeatable accuracy for the application needed.

[Matt3357]

I know I was thinking that I would use it every once in a while, and it would be really nice to know how fast and consistent my loads are, but not being able to shoot that often till i move a bit farther from town, it won't see much use. So I will pose another question.

Besides another gun, what would you guys recommend for Christmas? I am pretty well off as far as molds go and loading stuff goes, so I am looking for something un-necessary but would be nice to have. Any recommendations?

Matt