480 Ruger loading questions

[freedom475]

(Before I knew better)My testing with Lil'gun was with a 500S&W... and I found that the recoil and concusssion were a lot higher with lil'gun than h110. But when I chronoed the loads I found the the Lilgun load was actually slower in fps than the more managable h110 load.

I found that nothing worked as well in my 22 hornet as lil'gun and brass would last way longer than those loaded with 2400... maybe thats why they named it Lil'gun and not MagPistol

That being said.. if you have trouble finding powder and you can buy the big jug for $155. I say buy it. You will probly not shoot the 480 enough to burn your pistol up with it, Especially with the wrists hurting you. Most guys I know that shoot the 475's find that the 11-1200fps mark with a 400gr +/-is a good place to shoot them ( Mr. Linebaugh himself told me he likes them around 1150 with the 385gr.) ... still shoot the length of a brownbear.

[Frank]

44man writes

Lighter, faster boolits seem to have more whip and a faster recoil. Heavy boolits have more "Push." I like shooting my .475 better then I do a .454.

Well you're the authority on reloading the big bore wheelguns. I can see your itty bitty groups and data records posted on how you achieve accuracy. It's not just about making it go bang, or using a given powder to save money. Whether you hunt, or just target shoot, finding the best load means finding the right boolit that shoots accurately with the best powder at the most accurate velocity. If 15 grns of HS6 is more accurate than W296 in my BFR 475, but it goes slower, I will use it without hesitation, not for a second.

[Fowler]

44man writes
Well you're the authority on reloading the big bore wheelguns. I can see your itty bitty groups and data records posted on how you achieve accuracy. It's not just about making it go bang, or using a given powder to save money. Whether you hunt, or just target shoot, finding the best load means finding the right boolit that shoots accurately with the best powder at the most accurate velocity. If 15 grns of HS6 is more accurate than W296 in my BFR 475, but it goes slower, I will use it without hesitation, not for a second.

Well this bring up another simple point here, what can be proven on a bench with sandbags often does not prove out with real shooting. I mean a load that may make tiny group from the bench might be very difficult to shoot well from real handgun shooting positions.

I like big bullets not big recoil, my day to day load is 8.0gr of W231 and a 375gr LFNPB bullet I cast for 865fps from my 4 3/4" FA with a 480 cylinder in it. My hunting load is 13.5gr of HS-6 for 1050fps with the same bullet. I did some load development last summer with this gun with a scope on it, it shoots 2" or better 50 yards groups with this bullet from 800fps to 1375fps in the 480 case. Now with iron sights and field positions I can come much closer to duplicating these results at the lower, mild recoiling speeds than I can at red line levels. It is not the gun or the load but it is me, I know this, and some of you may think of me as a wuss I don't care. I have accepted that I am recoil sensitive, and depending on how much shooting I am doing, it varies how much.

Find a load you shoot well and shoot the hell out of it. Dustin Linebaugh shoots a 475 Linebaugh Bisley Vaquero as his everyday gun and has for more than 15 years. His load is 24.0gr H110, CCI 350 primer, and a 425gr LFNGC bullet. It was what they thought you needed in the 475 when John and him built the gun years ago. Dustin has carried the gun for so many years he wore out his holster (barrel wore a hole through the side) and has had the gun reblued 3 times! He said he has well over 15,000 of that exact load through his gun, it is a extension of him. I know guys who have watched him shoot 4" off hand groups at 100 yards with this gun, he killed a Alaskan Brown bear at 176 yards with a single shot! He told me the biggest mistake they made with the gun was marrying it to such a heavy load, and that he should slow it down to 1050 to 1100fps! But after all of these years messing with his load would mess with everything he has learned about how to shoot this gun well so he leaves it alone. He said there is no reason to run this gun at this power level here in North America.

Learning to shoot these big guns well is not easy, might as well help ourselves with lighter loads that still do everything we need...

[sagacious]

That was nicely said!
I have a chronograph but I find it is useless for finding what shoots. I do all of my load work without it and only take it down if a friend comes over and want's to check his loads. I have loads for my revolvers so accurate I can't shoot good enough to make use of them and I have no idea how fast they are. Others have been checked but ONLY after accuracy work is done first. I could care less how fast my boolits are.
Some of my loads are close to max but only because that was where accuracy was found...

That is my practice as well. For me, it's considerably more convenient to work up a load for accuracy and pressure first-- couldn't care about velocity. With a large-caliber revolver, for most common applications, one can make almost any reasonable velocity work.

After the accuracy development work is done, only then does the chronograph come out, and only if I'm really curious or if there's a compelling reason. Barring that necessity, I have many favorite loads that have never been velocity-tested, as velocity was not a deciding factor in loading recipe selection or during load development.

But I reckon some others may have different needs, or more pressing curiosity. That's OK too.

[sagacious]

Vance,

I agree with 44man-- shooting 400gr 480 loads is more pleasant than shooting my 454 and 310gr cast. There's less 'blast', less 'shock' during recoil, but more 'push' with the 480. Also, and though I do not load to max in the 454, there's still less flash and concussion in the 480.

I feel fairly confident that you can find a recipe with either Lil Gun or WW296 and the LEE 400 that will serve your application well and afford all the confidence you want, and still not beat up your wrists too bad. If it were me, and there was a huge disparity in powder price, and little to no anticipated difference in performance, I'd go with the less expensive one-- to my mind, economy is a major facet of handloading. Consider also that in your example, powder charge adjustment may be at least as useful a factor in regulating subjective felt "push" as is exact powder type.

Your 480 is a wheel unto itself, so one need not worry about reinvention. Ultimately, the question about whether to use the first or second crimp groove on the LEE 400 is not one that forces itself. You can simply work-up using the second groove on all of your loads, with no requirement to resort to the first groove ever. My OAL is 1.672" on my loads, but that's what I've chosen and what works in my gun-- you can certainly have a longer OAL than that by using the second groove.

Congrats on pouring your LEE 400's! It's fun to pour those big slugs. Let us know how the testing goes.

Best of luck.

[Whitworth]

Find a load you shoot well and shoot the hell out of it. Dustin Linebaugh shoots a 475 Linebaugh Bisley Vaquero as his everyday gun and has for more than 15 years. His load is 24.0gr H110, CCI 350 primer, and a 425gr LFNGC bullet. It was what they thought you needed in the 475 when John and him built the gun years ago.

I am the same way about loads. I find that one load that will work on virtually all game and I stick to it. I practice a lot and become VERY familiar with it. That said, 24 grains of H110 is far from a max load and really shouldn't kick that badly anyhow. I will bet his load goes right around 1,200 fps. Not obnoxious or unmanageable.

[44man]

This has been an enjoyable topic and a lot of good stuff posted.
I feel there is nothing wrong looking for less recoil and I sure will never call anyone a wuss. It takes many, many years to get used to recoil and it can still bother a fella. I am finding out myself because most of my shooting has been cut short this year having to take my wife for back decompression four days a week. I have not had time for much of anything, no casting or loading let alone shooting. I even went deer hunting the last time with only three rounds in my .475, all I had left.
I prefer to shoot all the time with my hunting loads because they are the most accurate and it makes it so easy to hit deer when recoil is never thought of.
We don't shoot from the bench that much unless we are shooting at cans at 100 and 200 yards for fun. After working loads, most of our shooting is off hand. We love to blow up bottles of water, etc. Whitworth, Bioman and I practice a lot off hand from a ladder stand. We shoot pretty far at small bottles of water, 86 yards can be seen from the stand before trees and stuff get in the way. This makes a 25 to 50 yard shot at deer so easy.
Sitting on the ground with elbows on the knees is even a lot easier.
Now the reason I don't like a heavy boolit with light loads is that it is just harder to find accuracy and my range is cut down for practice. There is no way to see if the load itself is the cause for a miss or if it is me. I prefer to call a miss depending on where my sights were when the gun went off. Loads that are not shooting where aimed will rule that out.
Accuracy is the reason I have worked so hard with revolvers all these years because then you can get better as you practice because it is YOU that you are working on, not shots going all over the place. If your gun sprays boolits, you will never become a better shot. I have not found a way to steer the boolit after it leaves the muzzle.
If your load is accurate with less recoil, go for it. But if your gun only shoots good with more recoil, then you have no choice but to shoot the accurate loads and get used to recoil. Don't fall into the trap of just making your gun go "bang." It is a waste of time, practice, powder and lead.
You want to reach the point that when you miss, you can turn around, grin, and say "I screwed up." I also accept the excuse that you could not see what you were shooting at! A load that will not shoot is never an excuse though.

[Packy]

Hi guys. I shoot the lee 400gr. bullet in my taurus raging bull with 20 grains of 296 and ww primers. This will shoot 2" groups for me out to 100 yards when I do my part. The doe that I shot last fall at about 60 yards or so didn't go 50 yards. She was quartering away, hit behind the ribs, bullet exited between the front shoulder and the neck, Liquefied the lungs. Don't think she would have known the difference of a few more grains of powder.

Faret don't know what gun you are shooting but my taurus slugged at .476. So I had to ream out my sizer to .478. Once I reamed out the sizer the leading went away and the accuracy got lots better. Only sizer I could find was the rcbs .476.

[Bucks Owin]

My two centavos is that a chrono is your best friend in working up a load. When more powder doesn't give you much besides more blast and recoil, your chrono will tell you and all you are doing is raising pressures to no gain And when it tells you that you've reached the point of diminishing returns with regard to powder/velocity, you are generally close to the most accurate too. I'm talking slow powders here, 296/110 as that's what I mainly have used, I tend to stay away from fast powders except for economical plinking type loads...JMO, Dennis

[sixshot]

Most times I'll use a chrono right from the start, why not, its easy to set up & you are then doing both at the same time. Top end velocity is never a concern with me, I'm only looking for accuracy but it only takes a couple of minutes to set up the chrono so I do it.

Dick

[44man]

But you don't understand!
I hate hauling it down the hill and setting it up. Then it doesn't record some shots and I have to fool with it. That takes away target concentration.
Am I LAZY? You better believe it!

[BABore]

I have a 9 1/2" Ruger SRH in 480. I can get nowhere close to Hodgdon's published figures. It kind of bugged me when I first started out with this gun. A call to Hodgdon's answered alot of the questions. They used an unvented test bbl for their velocities.

I used Lil Gun, WW296 (H110), and 2400 to work up loads using 370-400 grain boolits. 2400 always had good accuracy, but the lowest velocity before it maxed out. Even with a max load, there is some case capacity left, so it's just a touch too fast IMO. Lil Gun had good accuracy and velocity, but it got spikey and tempermental at top end. I've ran into similar issues with it in the 357, 41, and 44 mags. Again IMO it's just not worth the risk for a couple extra fps. WW296/H110 is the one that really shine in my gun. Top end loads and accuracy go hand-in-hand. I typically use CCI 350's with it. Not one to leave anything on the table, I've also tried CCI 300's and Winchester primers. The 350's win in my gun.

[Faret]

Tried unique 9 gr today and still got leading even after cleaning. Cleaned again switched to h-110 20 gr and worked better. Any idea why unigue isn't working?

[BABore]

Could be alot of things. Sometimes a certain powder will cause leading whereas a similar one won't. It could even be your lube and its hardness. A soft lube may negate the problem. I've never used Unique in mine. I have had good luck with WW 231 and Tite Group. I really don't shoot any light loads in my 480 anymore. I have other, smaller guns, to plink with.

[44man]

Tried unique 9 gr today and still got leading even after cleaning. Cleaned again switched to h-110 20 gr and worked better. Any idea why unigue isn't working?

Faster powders need a much harder boolit in my experience. Base damage at the forcing cone from pressures peaking too fast and the boolit skidding the rifling, opening gas channels on the side of the boolit.

[Faret]

That seems to be my problem then. Problem solved.

[Heavy lead]

11 grains of Unique shoot the RCBS boolit sized to .476 with BAC into a smaller group than I can hold it most of the time in my BFR, now this is a .475, not a .480, and it does not lead. I tried the Lee 400, but mine cast at .479 to .480 and by the time it was sized there were no lube grooves left. They chronograph at 1100 fps, and I've stopped using my Lil' Gun load as I couldn't see the point of all the extra commotion and power for an extra 150 fps for whitetails. The Unique load for me is not only accurate, but doesn't lead a bit.

[44man]

11 grains of Unique shoot the RCBS boolit sized to .476 with BAC into a smaller group than I can hold it most of the time in my BFR, now this is a .475, not a .480, and it does not lead. I tried the Lee 400, but mine cast at .479 to .480 and by the time it was sized there were no lube grooves left. They chronograph at 1100 fps, and I've stopped using my Lil' Gun load as I couldn't see the point of all the extra commotion and power for an extra 150 fps for whitetails. The Unique load for me is not only accurate, but doesn't lead a bit.

Now that would burn me up when a TL boolit casts too large.
I am lucky with my mold but I did have to send it back once.
These are test groups at 50 yards.
I shot the left group first and fooled with the Ultra Dot. Then I shot 3 more on the right target and they went into 1/4".
Then I shot 3 of my 429 gr GC boolits and two went into the first group and I dropped one low, my fault.
This is why I like 296. Velocity is 1340 fps. I use 26.5 gr with the Lee and 26 with my 429 gr.
Anyway, the Lee boolit will shoot.

[Vance in Ak]

OK, went & did a little (very little) testing today.
Temp was 25*, no wind. I was kneeling on both knees & using a sandbag rest under the frame. Pretty secure, but hands were a bit chilly. I didn't feel GREAT about my shooting, but felt that it was good enough to give me an idea of potential. I tried 4 different loads, 3 "performance" loads, & a plinking load.
I tried H-110 with both WW primers, & Fed LPM primers to see what the difference would be, & was an eye opener.
Bullet for all loads was 400gr Lee cast from WW & tumble lubed with Xlox.

20.0 gr Lil-Gun, WW primer, avg vel 1151, extreme spread 41fps. Accuracy potential good.

20.0 gr H-110, WW primer, avg vel 988, extreme spread 94fps. Accuracy potential poor.

20.0 gr H-110, Federal LP mag primer, avg vel 929, extreme spread 86fps. Accuracy potential good.

8.0 gr Unique, WW primer, avg vel 826, extreme spread 22fps. Accuracy potential good.

The surprise for me was that with H-110 the federal mag primer turned in lower velocity. Did have much better accuracy & slightly smaller extreme spread though.

As far as recoil, the Lil-Gun had slightly more felt recoil, but with an additional 163fps that is to be expected! Not as much recoil difference as I would expect considering the velocity gain. I'm sure if I got the H-110 up to 1150 the recoil would be at LEAST as stiff if not worse.
I would say that recoil with the Lil-Gun wasn't really any worse (didn't compare them side by side) than 320s out of my mod. 29 @ 1320fps.
I think I'll put my focus into the Lil-Gun for now. Seems to have the best potential.