Cast bullets in .223

[PatMarlin]

I see- interesting. 222 version 2.

[Flash]

Some of the short action BDL rifles have cut-outs in the rear receiver ring for stripper clips. These were used up as commercial guns after the military stayed with the 06' as a sniper round. These BDL guns command a premium when they have the cut-outs and are in good condition.

[JIMinPHX]

That's not what I'm seeing here. I cast some Bators last night. Some I water dropped. Others I air cooled. I just tested two of them. They came up around 21 & 13bnh respectively.

My alloy was similar to WW + 1% tin. Perhaps with Lino, it's different, but .22s cast from my alloy, with the pot around 800F certainly do seem to change hardness when water dropped. The ambient temperature was 57F.

Glad you measured them, Jim. I would have though they would be closer, like they MIGHT be around here with the 100 percent air humidity (dew conditions at night). Save the samples and see what the measurements are a week or two from now, please. ... felix

I just tested 2 each from the WD batch & the AC batch. They came up about 27 & 13bnh respectively.

My "air cooled" boolits are actually dropped from a gloved hand into a cardboard box with an old shirt & a bunch of other boolits in it, so my AC might actually be a little slower to cool than other people's AC boolits.

[felix]

Thanks, Jim! I am surprised to say the least. Obviously, the water maintains the rapid-enough temp drop to include the center line of the boolit. Did you measure the sides, or measure the center? ... felix

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I see- interesting. 222 version 2.

The 222 came out in 1950

[JIMinPHX]

Did you measure the sides, or measure the center? ... felix

I measured the meplat. The boolit was standing straight up & the penetrator went in from the top.

Let me know if you would like me to measure somewhere else & I'll include that next time as a separate reading.

[PatMarlin]

I'm working on my own...

The 223 Patmarlin. 223 PM for short ....

You can remember me when I'm famous.

[rhbrink]

I'm working on my own...

The 223 Patmarlin. 223 PM for short ....

You can remember me when I'm famous.

Are going to show us a picture of the 223 PM in the "Show Us Your Wildcat" thread?

[PatMarlin]

I got a drawing, but then I need to build it. May take another 2 years ...LOL

Then I've got to see if it actually will work- to spare future embarrassment ...

[JIMinPHX]

2/11/11

That's not what I'm seeing here. I cast some Bators last night. Some I water dropped. Others I air cooled. I just tested two of them. They came up around 21 & 13bnh respectively.

My alloy was similar to WW + 1% tin. Perhaps with Lino, it's different, but .22s cast from my alloy, with the pot around 800F certainly do seem to change hardness when water dropped. The ambient temperature was 57F.

Glad you measured them, Jim. I would have though they would be closer, like they MIGHT be around here with the 100 percent air humidity (dew conditions at night). Save the samples and see what the measurements are a week or two from now, please. ... felix

2/20/11

I just tested 2 each from the WD batch & the AC batch. They came up about 27 & 13bnh respectively.

My "air cooled" boolits are actually dropped from a gloved hand into a cardboard box with an old shirt & a bunch of other boolits in it, so my AC might actually be a little slower to cool than other people's AC boolits.

2/26/11 Today's results were 27 & 14.

[felix]

Thanks, Jim, for keeping up with this. It goes to show that lead retains heat much, much longer than I thought, even for the very smallest boolit we would use. ... felix

[JIMinPHX]

The fact that what was 13 is now turning to 14 also lends credence to what you expected to see. The air cooled boolits are starting to harden up a little. They just took a while to start that process. I tested 3 of the air cooled boolits yesterday & all 3 came out the same. It wasn't just 1 that cooled a little quicker. They were all 14 bnh. I'll watch to see if they continue to get harder or not.

[JIMinPHX]

2/11/11 came up around 21 & 13bnh respectively.

2/20/11 came up about 27 & 13bnh respectively.

2/26/11 results were 27 & 14.

3/11/11 results were 24 & 14

[felix]

Thanks, Jim, and keep it going. It's surprising to see the quenched boolits get softer so soon. I, too, wonder now how long the downward trend will continue. ... felix

[morme@gte.net]

I just loaded up 240 rnds of various loads (20 each of 8 different loads) to see how they work in my 1:7 twist AR.

Using a Hornady OAL case length gauge, the Bator seats so that only .148" protrudes from the case. This is for my Compass Lake Engineering barrel (they make the barrels for the Military shooting teams, and some other special purpose military rifles). The throat is shorter than the 5.56 NATO cambering.

As you can see in the pix, the 5.56 has a .100 longer throat than the CLE barrel. Compass Lake tells me that their barrel will handle NATO military loads just fine. The bullets were pushed hard up against the lands.

It will be interesting to see if they feed from the magazine properly, and if they cycle the action.

I just ordered a single shot sled in case the accurate loads don't cycle. Next on the list is an adjustable gas tube so I can turn the gas off (again, if the accurate loads don't cycle well). That way, I won't get any short cycles, and it truly becomes a single shot.

I am hoping for an inexpensive "plinking" load that cycles reliably. I may have more luck in one of the 5.56 chambered rifles. The CLE barrel has an 18" barrel, but a rifle length gas system. I (with assistance from Compass Lake) opened the gas port to .106 (I used a carbide reamer from McMaster). The larger gas port makes my rifle load more reliably. The carbines have a longer gas port to barrel crown length, so they have a "longer" gas pulse, and may feed these rounds more reliably.

I use the 55gr LEE Bator Mold in my 223 Rem chambered AR15. This weekend, I found I had to seat the boolit deeper than my standard 55gr spitzer due to that nice rounded meplat on the boolit was engaging the rifling and not letting the bolt seat properly. Nice accuracy out to 100 yards so far. no recoil to speak of at 9gr of Unique and ejects the case cleanly. More information when I can get to the range again.

Bruce

[url=http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=197]

[morme@gte.net]

You have a really long throat. I have 3 ARs, I measured 2

My CLE barrel needs a Bator loaded to 1.189 COAL
My 5.56 M4 profile needs it loaded to 2.002 COAL

These were measured with a Hornady/Stoney Point Case Length Gauge.

pix were posted in another post

the new style bator, alloy is water dropped ww. col is 2.035 any longer and against the rifling.

[morme@gte.net]

I routinely pull a boresnake with the front end soaked with Hoppes #9 through my barrels while shooting. Sometimes as often as every 10 rounds. Read the CLE instructions for breaking in their barrels

http://compasslake.com/instructions.htm

Everything that spins has an rpm limit.

Anybody besides me make note of that?

And after all this time of trying to convince me otherwise

Larry Gibson

I only buy into the rpm theories that anything done faster, no matter just about what it is, is harder to do than at a slower pace.

BTW Joe; that's exactly what the RPM threshold is about. It's that point where the "harder" begins. Nice to see you finally agree with me whether you realise it or not.

[Flash]

The 222 came out in 1950

The 223 began the experimental life in 1957, completed in 1959

The 222 mag came out in 1958

This is not entirely correct. The 222 mag predates the 223. The 222 mag was refused by the military in 1958 as a rifle round and was sent back to Remington to be shortened and lightened, hence the 223. The 223 was introduced in 1963

[JKH]

anyone use straight lino-type to cast .22's for AR15 use? Particularly LEE Bator's?
I have some promising looking loads with air cooled wheel weights & want to try pushing them faster, so have cast 1000 from virgin lino. Using these boolits what are the odds they could be loaded to starting velocity ball ammo speeds?

I am using AA2230C, rifle has an Armalite 24" (T) stainless math bill barrel, awesome shooter!

[JIMinPHX]

anyone use straight lino-type to cast .22's for AR15 use? Particularly LEE Bator's?
I have some promising looking loads with air cooled wheel weights & want to try pushing them faster, so have cast 1000 from virgin lino. Using these boolits what are the odds they could be loaded to starting velocity ball ammo speeds?

I am using AA2230C, rifle has an Armalite 24" (T) stainless math bill barrel, awesome shooter!

I believe that Leadman loads straight Lino. He may have some info for you on that.

I've pushed an alloy that's pretty close to wheel weights + 2% tin up over 3,000fps with no leading, but poor accuracy out of a .223.

I think that what you want to do is possible, but it might take some serious tuning to get it to perform well.